Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 10 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1800



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Traveller Internet Play
Re: Request to Craig
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1796
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Replys
Re: T:GURPS
Re: 3G3, EA, and FF&S2 (was: The Gateway Book)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1797
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1797
Re: CT, Mega, TNE, T4, and then GURPS
USA world domination
FASA's ST
re: OH dear! not a 101 book
Gurps Traveller
RE: Traveller Internet Play
re: Thoughts on roleplaying
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)
Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:56:09 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)

On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:47:10 EDT, lugh1@juno.com wrote:

> >Yes and no.  From what I understand (its made clear in the 2300 AD 
> >books, I believe), the background was a joint effort of many people all
> >who played a massive simulation to build it.  In addition, I bet it was
> >pretty unrealistic in the mid 1700s to say "In 200 years, the American
> >Colonies are going to be a world leader", and most would have said that
> >that was pretty unrealistic.
> >
> >Its a game, and a game that's been out of print for like 7 years or 
> >something absurd like that, relax.  If America was involved in WW3 with
> >limited nuclear exchange, the U.S.ed be in a heap of trouble.  That's
> >the way it goes.
>
> you mean like all the trouble we had in the gulf ? 
> 1. warsaw pact equipment was and is far inferior [ TL 6 ] versus our
> hardware [TL8]
>     dureing the '80's the media had built up the soviets as a major
> threat when infact the basic soviet troop is not trained to read a map
> and the average soviet rifle company possess' one radio .

Oh please.  Aren't you paying attention?  T2300 is a game that clearly
includes a major nuclear exchange in the final years of the 20th
century in its fictional history.  You cannot compare conventional
tactics and equipment to hundreds of nuclear warheads being exchanged
between the two biggest players of the cold war (not to mention the
other nuclear powers as well).  There was no documented ground war
between the US and the USSR in the fictitious background of T2300.
The USSR was also still very much alive, since the game was released
in 1986.  If you don't keep your arguments within the bounds of the
game's history, the whole discussion becomes pointless.

> soviet vehicles are made of magnesium alloy [ they burn ] 

Magnesium only burns at temperatures that would make any other vehicle
exposed to such heat useless anyways.  Exactly what vehicles are you
talking about?

> If the U.S were to mobilize and engage in world domination , sans nukes
> the world would fall in under two years . 

LOL!  Get off your high-horse.  You are single-handedly keeping alive
the "loudmouthed American" stereotype that so many of your fellow
countrymen hate so much.  If it ever came to an honest threat at true
"world domination" by the US, every nuclear power in the world would
very well use their arsenal to make damn sure that doesn't happen.



James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:17:29 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

At 11:10 AM 9/10/97 +0800, you wrote:

>> >Originally, 3G3 was _supposed_ to be the weapons design system for T4, 
>
>Where did you get this information from, as I have collected the last 3
>versions of 3G(Guns Guns Gun),it was not made for T4, it was made for
>Timelords with conversions to other systems, hell we made it fit Harnmaster
>and among my friends its is the bible for gun design.

That's what Greg Porter told me.  He designed all the weapons in T4 and EA
using 3G3.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:31:23 +1000
From: gjo@deakin.edu.au
Subject: Traveller Internet Play

I've been interested in Traveller for some time but I have seldom
had a chance to play. I have MT and TNE plus some of the extra
material for them. My Brother-in-law has a load of CT stuff which I
have borrowed from time to time and read through.

I wonder if many people are conducting Traveller campaigns via the
Internet? I have heard of play by e-mail but I think I would find this too
slow going.

There are a lot of IRC type chat programs that would facilitate traditional
RPG playing over the Internet.
ICQ from Mirabilis (http://www.mirabilis.com) is an interesting program
for linking up with people on the net.
Another is EWGIE, an IRC chat style program that is a Java applet which
has a shared whiteboard facility that can load up images from web pages
(scanned in deck plans, hex grids, perhaps?) which might be useful
for RPGs.

I'd like hear from anyone who is involved in doing something like this.
I want to play some Traveller and I think the Net is the only way I am
going to get to.

I haven't had a look at T4 yet, what is the so called T4.1 stuff about?
Wouldn't it be nice to have one set of rules and technology design
that work well for any Traveller era? Does T4.1 and FFSv2 fit the bill or
are you better off sticking with the rules that came out with particular
Traveller time period?


Greg O'Sullivan
(gjo@deakin.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:16:10 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Request to Craig

At 11:12 PM 9/9/97 -0400, you wrote:
>************************************
>No prob...world-building is one of my favorite hobbies, and I'm enjoying
>this immensely.

>   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net

>Great....would you mind giving a brief tutorial???

Will his younger, better looking brother do?

>
>What is tidaly locked and what does it imply?

a tidaly locked world always presents the same face to the object it is
orbiting.  The most obvious example is our Moon.  For a planet, it would
leave one hemisphere eternally lit, the other in perpetual darkness, with a
Teilight Zone at the terminator.

>How does a world get tidally locked?

Age is one way, worlds naturally slow down.  There are other mechanisms,
but friction and the "drag" of gravity are the main culprits.

>You or someone else mentioned that somehow tides could somehow start a
>planetary rotation or make it stop....How does this occure.

The orbit of the Moon around the Earth produces a noticable bulge in the
crust.. This speeds up the Earth's rotation by a microscopic amount.  It
also robs the Moon of a tiny bit of it's velocity, causing the Moon to
recede slightly.

>Your right....its terriblly interesting!!! Unfortunately, I don't know
>the first thing about it.  Could I convince you to use some of the above
>mentioned enthusiasm to edify the entire list !!!!! ;->  !!!!!

De Nada.. Craig will probably amplify on what I've said here.

There are two wonderful books to look for on this subject.  The first is
"What if the Moon didn't exist, Voyages to Earths that might have been"
that has wandered off, so I can't remember the author.

The second is "World-Building" by Stephen Gillett (Writer's Digest Books,
1996)  ISBN 0-89879-707-1

Both of these are great introductions to planetolgy, the second is
especially useful to the Traveller ref.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:27:10 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1796

At 05:47 PM 9/9/97 EDT, you wrote:

>>Its a game, and a game that's been out of print for like 7 years or 
>>something absurd like that, relax.  If America was involved in WW3 with
>limited 
>>nuclear exchange, the U.S.ed be in a heap of trouble.  That's the way it
>goes.

>you mean like all the trouble we had in the gulf ? 
>1. warsaw pact equipment was and is far inferior [ TL 6 ] versus our
>hardware [TL8]

In 1939 the French had the best tanks in Europe, an impassable defensive
system of forts in depth, and a large, professional army.  Their entire
military line of thought was on defeating Germany, and preventing a German
invasion of France.

In 1940, the Germans conquored France in a little less than two months.

What did France in back in '40 was a lack of understanding of how warfare
had changed.

In the T2K universe, the Germans assumed that since the Soviets were
involved heavily in China, the "liberation" of Silesia would happen in a
walk.  Wrong!  The second mistake was pushing into the Ukraine, which
triggered the nuclear exchange.  

>    dureing the '80's the media had built up the soviets as a major
>threat when infact the basic soviet troop is not trained to read a map
>and the average soviet rifle company possess' one radio . [ I was trained
>in soviet doctine and hardware in the army ] . soviet vehicles are made
>of magnesium alloy [ they burn ] 

And your point?  The brand-new M2 Bradley is made of flammable armor.
Soviet doctrine was very different than NATO on subjects like small unit
tactics, they didn't want radios down to the squad level.

>If the U.S were to mobilize and engage in world domination , sans nukes
>the world would fall in under two years . 

HA!  This explains the free and independant Republic of South Vietnam.

>>America's already falling behind in a number of ways, and we haven't 
>>had a WW3 yet.
>
>not in the fields of mil-tech or airo-space ..which are the ones that
>would count in WW3

Not when the Military Government and Civlian Government are engaged in a
shooting war.

Now, I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but the assertation that the US
could conquor the world in two year is truely bizarre...
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:19:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

In mail you write:

> Why not just say "buy friggin' 3G3 if you want to design sick small 
> arms like a full-auto 20mm ATR.[1]"??? 
>
> John M. Atkinson
>
> [1]Yes, I do own a complete regiment of Command Decision Finns, why do 
> you ask??[2]
> [2]If the above isn't clue enough, look up 'Lahti ATR' in any good 
> reference book on the Continuation War.

I don't need to. I've got a gun collector friend who has wanted a Lahti
for as long as I've known him. He almost had a chance about 15 years
back... 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:20:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Replys

Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited (LONG)

> One last thing, please stop SJG from substituting his Tech levels for Travellers.

I don't see that I have a lot of choice in the matter...


David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: The dread TIV virus (was RE: GURPS Traveller)

David Reed:

>On Friday, September 05, 1997 19:26, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
>> > Gurps Traveller is not really T5...I would call it T IV : )
>
>Is that anything like HIV?

It is the letter "T" followed by the Roman Numeral IV ("four" to 
those of you who are Latin challenged). An alternate universe 
represented by an alternate numbering system -- qite a jest, eh what?
 I could have said it was T100 (am I getting binary for four correct?).

> * SJG will InvalidateRect the BEST milieu Traveller ever had!

Nobody's invalidating anything.

> Bring back the Rebellion and Hard Times!!!

They are not gone.

> Loren Wiseman

> Welcome back, Loren!  Whatcha been up to?

Mainly, I've been trying to earn a living. My continual inability to win $20 Million
in the Illinois lottery is a source of frustration to me. Perhaps if I bought a ticket?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 00:28:22 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: T:GURPS

Kenji Schwarz wrote

[snips throughout]

> >just what
> >does this new timeline have in store for us?
> 
> Norris beats back the dirty mind-raping Zhos using big strapping ihatei
> mercenaries
> 
> Unfortunately, the Imperial citizenry of the Marches, stirred up by Darrian
> attempts at psychohistorical, go haywire and break the armistice of their
> own accord. 
> Meanwhile, the two Sword World states reunite unexpectedly and declare
> themselves to be the long-dormant Teutonic Order, dedicated to > fighting the Templar Menace.
> 
> Strephon has no choice at this point but to call upon his lurking Hiver
> puppetmasters to save the day.  The Great Old Ones release a cheese-based
> virus in the form of a purple dinosaur that destroys interstellar
> civilization as we know it, but in a nice way. 
> Then Grandfather wakes up and sees his kids taking a shower -- and realizes
> it was all a dream.

Kenji:  I regret to inform you that the secret masters have been
informed of your attempt to out their secrets.  Please report to your
local disintegration chambers for suitable disposition.  Failure to
comply will result in dire consequences. :)

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:08:29 +0100
From: "Nick Munn" <N.S.Munn@sheffield.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: 3G3, EA, and FF&S2 (was: The Gateway Book)

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>:

> That being said, I do stand behind FF&S2.  While you'll get slightly
> different results from FF&S2, both 3G3 and FF&S2 will produce results in the
> acceptable range for modern-day and historical firearms.

Note however that the switch between small arms (<30 kJ muzzle 
energy) and light support weapons leads to more than slight 
differences.  Using the FF&S beta version I designed a 20mm 
pentabarrel autocannon for TL8 aircraft.  The weapon was under 1 
tonne mass and did damage 16.  The EA equivalent is larger, fires no 
faster and does damage 8.

I have not yet checked this using the published versions but my TL8 
autocannon uses a caseless, 20mm calibre, 30 kJ round, if anyone 
wants to make their own calculation.

Nick

 
Dr. Nick Munn, Dept. of Information Studies, University of Sheffield
Tel. (0)114 222 2673, email n.s.munn@sheffield.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:35:18 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1797

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:16:20 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:48:48 -0700
>From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
>Subject: Re: T:GURPS

<illuminate variant history snipped>
>
>Then Grandfather wakes up and sees his kids taking a shower -- and realizes
>it was all a dream.

ROTFLOL! :-)

Phil

- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:35:16 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1797

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:16:20 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:51:50 +0800
>From: Michael Bailey <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
>Subject: Australian socialist = liberal?
>
>Of course Phil, the ALP covers everything from the old Keatiing rabid Right
>to the Loony Left...
>
>...hey, I wonder if MM used the ALP as the basis for the Solomani Party? *g*

But I'm only putting it in terms that the Yanks (and other USAns) on the list
will understand ... after all, in Oz terms, American "liberals" are far right
crazies! And I don't think that most USAns would either understand (or like)
that comparison ... flame retardant underwear <on>.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 05:42:00 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: CT, Mega, TNE, T4, and then GURPS

Joseph "Chepe" Lockett writes:

>And for you to mount on your high horse, assuming that just because I
>defend the artistic merit of the GURPS variant-timeline setting and the
>adventuring possibilities therein then I must be against TNE and all it
>stands for, strikes me as grossly offensive and intellectually lazy. 
>Don't read into a message what isn't there. 

   I fear that the battle lines have formed up rather quickly on the
whole issue of Traveller canon, the future of IG, and the coming of
SJG.  Like most wars, it eats its young, lays waste to the land, and
cuts down the innocent.

   My immediate sense about GT was that, given its premise, it's going
to be bad for TNE.  It doesn't help that IG is giving us
a...uhmm...*workshop* on proofreading and layout, and that GURPS is
generally of such high quality either.  It doesn't take a gearhead to
figure out what happens if IG is suddenly out of the picture.

>>    You also seem to have an attitude that "you'd better off tossing all
>> that Rebellion and Virus crap and sticking with the regular Imperial
>> setting."  Not everyone shares your view.
>
>Damn straight.  *I* don't share the views you're tarring me with.

   I'm glad to hear that's not how you feel.  Too many on this list TNE
bash as though it were the politically correct thing to do.  The
tendency when I see it happen is to react, sometimes very strongly.  If
my fire was misdirected, I am indeed sorry.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:29:12 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: USA world domination

>If the U.S were to mobilize and engage in world domination , sans nukes
>the world would fall in under two years . 

Jim... please... remember that you are on the internet, and that your
comments go to a lot of people who are not U.S citizens, who also feel very
patriotic about their own countries, and who would be very insulted by
thoughtless statements like the above. There is no denying that US military
technology is state of the art, the origional point is that the ability of
a country to dominate both militarily and economically both grows and fades
with time. Last century it was British Empire, this century it was the US,
next century I suspect it will be the Chinese, and the century after
that... maybe an Australian led Pacfic Rim Coalition ( yeah... in my dreams
:) ). 
PLease remeber that this list is about exercising our imaginations. I found
the concept of French domination very interesting, and actually well
thought out. 

And speaking of imagination.... :)

In M0, I wander what the makup of the populations of the worlds of the
Imperium would be. There is a lot of talk of the Aristocracy (well, a lot
of hints) being mostly Solomani in make up. Just how many solomani made it
to the Sylean regions. 
Is it a situation of Solamani aristocracies ruling over largely vilani
populations? I will accept that they may not be cultural Vilani, but I
strongly suspect that there will be a lot of cultural 'baggage' still being
carried by the ex-Vilani. What kind of tensions would this situation create? 


Harry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:01:38 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: FASA's ST

Okay so this has got nothing to do with Traveller in any of its incarnations.
But since my long absense from RPG's has left me a little out of touch and
this has been bugging me for a while; but what the heck happened to FASA's
Star Trek RPG? When I last looked it seemed to be going strong, but now it
seems to have disappeared. Did Paramount pull the licence or did FASA just
drop it?

Okay, I'll now return you to your regular CT/MT/TNE/T4/GURPS slugfest.


  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:24:55 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: OH dear! not a 101 book

Dom wrote:
>What I forgot to mention is:

Indeed!

There was me thinking it was all a fraud and that my bibliography was just
a figment of my imagination.  EuroGen never happened.  The universe doesn't
exist outside of southern Hampshire.

Phew.  I knew it was just reality on the blink again.


>Timothy Collinson's 'The Traveller Bibliography' is also out.... slightly
>more expensive, but a lot longer than normal 101 books,


114 pages to be exact.


>just about every Traveller supplement you've heard of,


Oh, I hope not.  I really would like to think that the 'just about' should
be removed from that sentence.  However, realistically, I've yet to find an
'exhaustive' bibliography that was.  (though I'll freely admit to it being
exhausting!)


>and many that you haven't,


This may well be.  We toyed with the idea of a subtitle of "No, I've never
heard of that supplement."



>A very good resource indeed.
><Wholeheartedly recommend>

<blush>
Thank you.


><aside>
>Tim, I'm sorry I forgot to mention it <grovel, grovel> BUT I DID BUY IT!
></aside>


Well, what can I say after that?  Of course you're forgiven.  If you find
it just *half* as useful as I do, I'm sure you'll think it money well
spent.

And now, back to your usual programming - soon to be interrupted by an
advert from BITS (I hope).

tc
timothy.collinson@solent.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:22:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Gurps Traveller

>>* SJG will InvalidateRect the BEST milieu Traveller ever had!  Bring back 
>>the Rebellion and Hard Times!!!
>
>Let's try this again; the GURPS Traveller background is an ALTERNATE
>TIMELINE. it does not inavlidate anything!

Allen has it right.

It is not my intention to invalidate anything. One thing I plan on doing is
presenting a single-source book, currently in print, that contains the main
points of the background history leading up to 1116 Imperial. 

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:55:11 -0400
From: John Toth <jtoth@erols.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller Internet Play

If you REALLY want Traveller for the internet, find out if someone can get the Ultima Online Engine Ported to the Traveller setting!!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:04:24 +2
From: "RFXn" <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: re: Thoughts on roleplaying

On  8 Sep 97 at 9:43, Derek Wildstar wrote:

> Personally, I feel that online gaming, even with the relatively
> primitive game engines available today, has several exciting
> possibilities.  I've had some experience with MUCK and MOO text-only
> game engines, and have seen (and participated in) role-playing as
> good as the best I've experienced in face-to-face RPGs.  I haven't
> tried any of the graphic-based games (such as Furcadia), but I'd
> expect that this technology will only get better over the next few
> years.

	Now this is (again!) completely off-topic, but I've greatly enjoyed 
playing SubSpace, an online shoot-'em-up game. Besides, it's free (at 
least for now, see http://www.vie.com/subspace). If trying to come up 
with an adventure for next session is about to drive you crazy, 
blasting away a couple of irritating little fighters will (probably) 
make you feel a bit better. Won't help with the adventure though. :)

	PS. I'm usually on CHAOS Zone East, from 7AM to 10AM CET. Tag's 
either Fulcrum-A or Azhanti HL.

/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
 -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
 -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
 -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:18:43 +2
From: "RFXn" <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

On  9 Sep 97 at 22:10, Anders Backman wrote:

> Don't forget the blowthrough rules in GURPS.
> Makes those high tech gizmos somewhat less dangerous.

	"No blowthru is allowed for any damage rolls of 12d or higher" or 
something like that. Really a comforting thought when faced with a TL 
15 "6d x3 (2)" x-ray laser rifle. *grin*

	Actually, I quite like the mortality rate - and it is not, in fact, 
much worse than that of MT. Let's just say I like to put the fear of 
the gun to my players.
/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
 -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
 -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
 -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:43:49 +2
From: "RFXn" <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)

On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:47:10 EDT, lugh1@juno.com wrote:

> If the U.S were to mobilize and engage in world domination , sans nukes
> the world would fall in under two years . 

	Now that's an interesting idea. But, why on earth would the US 
conquer the world again? They wouldn't, simply because the US 
decision-maker (GE, MacDonalds, IMB, Microsoft, what have you) would 
be mightily pissed off if the IRS went snooping around their 
business in other parts of the culturally conquered and assimilated 
Planet America.

/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
 -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
 -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
 -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:53:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789)

You wrote: 

>   Continuing the analogy...
>
>   Thereby creating a new empire (Byzantium) that was Greek, not 
Latin.

Yet who's armies continued to march under banners bearing 'SPQR'.  

Just don't buy any red footware unless you are really, really, really 
sure of yourself.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1800
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 10 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1801



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Imperium World Makeup (was USA world domination)
Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)
Stuff and Nonsense
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1796
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1799
Loren's Dream
Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Starship tickets
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
IG's License Agreement text for the curious.
Request for repost (was: Re: T:GURPS)
Re: Ordering CORE products
Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Jump Torpedos (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1792)
TNE bashing
American Jingoism
Launch (TL12)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:47:34 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Imperium World Makeup (was USA world domination)

Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au> writes :-

>In M0, I wander what the makup of the populations of the worlds of the
>Imperium would be. There is a lot of talk of the Aristocracy (well, a lot
>of hints) being mostly Solomani in make up. Just how many solomani made
>it to the Sylean regions.

Lots I would emagine, as the capital of the rule of man was moved to
Sylean was it not ? This wold leave a lot of Solomani aristocracies
(military goveners) on the world when everyone stoped trading with each
other, during dusk (pre long night). The worlds around would also have a
lot of them about as being near the seat of power is where you want to be
if you want to get ahead in the ruling classes ....
 
>Is it a situation of Solamani aristocracies ruling over largely vilani
>populations? I will accept that they may not be cultural Vilani, but I
>strongly suspect that there will be a lot of cultural 'baggage' still
>being carried by the ex-Vilani. What kind of tensions would this
>situation create?

Lots ... ?

I mean the concering Solomani (or invading, depending on your point of
view) completly devistated the Vilani cast system, cos it was too ridgid,
told them that technological inovation and forward thinking was the way to
go, and that beeing ruthless in war was evil and bad, and that they should
be more libral in there thinking and not stagnent concervitives.

I mean having someone tell you that everything you belive in is totaly
wrong is sure to initiate a major responce, maybe to the point of open
rebellion ? (or even e-mail flame wars  .... ;-)

Ewan

P.S. nice change of subject ...



	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'
	http://www.comp.it.bton.ac.uk/~edq/
                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:06:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)

You wrote: 

>> If the U.S were to mobilize and engage in world domination , sans 
nukes
>> the world would fall in under two years . 
>
>LOL!  Get off your high-horse.  You are single-handedly keeping alive
>the "loudmouthed American" stereotype that so many of your fellow
>countrymen hate so much.  If it ever came to an honest threat at true

Amen!  I'm a kneejerk nationalist, but this assertation is stretching 
it.  If 1)nuclear weapons didn't exist, 2)we mobilized every 
able-bodied male, 3)we managed to equip them all to current standards, 
4)we managed to train them all to current standards, 5)no other nation 
in the world increased or modernized their militaries one iota between 
now and then, and 6)we _never_ got bogged down in any piss-ant guerilla 
wars, then yes, we could smash every single other nation on earth, one 
after another, though it would take much more than two years.  But 
since none of the above criteria can ever exist, that puts us kinda out 
of luck.

>"world domination" by the US, every nuclear power in the world would
>very well use their arsenal to make damn sure that doesn't happen.

Besides, who wants to conquer the world?  Look at how much Britain 
invested in India, and what did they ever get out of it?

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:06:31 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Stuff and Nonsense

France dominating the world in 2300? Why not? They've as much chance as
those no-hoper colonials in the North American wilderness had of defeating
the world's greatest power (Britain) and becoming independent, then rising
to dominate the world. They just need the right breaks - like a major war
where they don't get hurt much but the great powers get panned. Brazil (I
think) manages this in John Wyndham's 'The Outward Urge'.

Japan was a deliberately backward country, having chosen to get rid of
firearms (they had rather good ones) in the 18th century. Look at their
economic power now, achieved in part by using foreign aid wisely after
their industry was bombed to pieces by the Americans who then fixed the
damage better than before! (One of the captains of the Japanese fleet that
so memorably devastated the Russians as Tsushima started his career in
armor, fighting on land with a battleaxe.) Progress happens, fast, and in
unexpected directions.

And as SF writers our brief is to explore a future different to today. If
you don't allow for one-off long shots to come off once in a while then the
future will be the same as today. 
	
And it never is!

"The only constant in our lives is change" - Anyone know who said that?
"No generalisation is worth a damn. Including this one."


Jump torpedoes? I always liked the idea - bloody expensive way of sending a
message but sometimes necessary. I mean, an Xboat IS a jump torpedo, albeit
a large, manned one. 


Lastly - Austerlitz wasn't a war. The 1805 campaign was, however. Basically
the French held off, beat or neutralised everyone in every campaign (not
each battle, however) between the first Revolutionary campaign (which was a
desperate attempt to prevent Revolutionary France being steamrollered by
hostile monarchies and culminated in the famous battle at Valmy), through
the famous 1796 Italian campaign (plug: read my book when it comes out to
find out about this from a fictional character's point of view!) where the
young Napoleone Di Bounaparte changed his name to Napoleon Bonaparte and
defeated the Austrians, Sardinians and everyone else, through the Egyptian
campaign (4000 French beat 25,000 Mamelukes at the Battle of the Pyramids;
a triumph of the new military system made possible by higher-tech weapons
rather than the weapons themselves), the 1800 second Italian (Marengo
Campaign), and the final defeat of 1814. Even then they came back for a
second round in 1815.
	
All through the wars with seven different coalitions, the French fought and
usually beat Spain, Portugal, The Confederacy Of The Rhine, Austria
(repeatedly), Russia, Sweden, Sardinia, Prussia, the Papal States, etc etc.
For 20+ years the French beat everyone who ganged up on them except the
British, who could be contained, beaten on land (like when they were
chucked out of Spain in 1808) but could never be subjugated because of
their big moat and floating bastions - the Channel, and the Royal Navy. The
French even found time to intervene in the War Of 1812 between Britain and
America.

I'd say that was a pretty good run, wouldn't you? So who knows what they
could achieve? SF is only a medium for exploring possibilities. 2300
explored this one. I once looked at a resurgent British Empire dominating
space. Unlikely, but fun.

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:21:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1796

You wrote: 

>>nuclear exchange, the U.S.ed be in a heap of trouble.  That's the way 
it
>goes.
>>
>you mean like all the trouble we had in the gulf ? 

If you can't tell the difference between Desert Storm and a nuclear 
exchange, then your head is so far up your ass further conversation is 
meaningless.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:26:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

You wrote: 

>be expensive or everyone would be doing it. My suggestion is to drop
>special "military" drives and just say military ships are all T&T.

Well, in a proper military they are, say the Imperial Navy. . . 

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:29:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

You wrote: 

>I don't need to. I've got a gun collector friend who has wanted a 
Lahti
>for as long as I've known him. He almost had a chance about 15 years
>back... 

Ah, but most yahoos, when I say I have a regiment of Finns from WWII, 
go 'Who?' and are completely unaware where Finland is, or that they 
fought the Soviet Union twice, much less details of their equipment.  
So that's my yahoo protection.  If I left it out, I'd get 75 e-mails 
going, 'Wha???'

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:43:39 -0400
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1799

>   While you look forward to GT, or at the least are hopeful that yet
>another fresh start will result in a product worthy of purchase, I see
>the beginning of the end of Traveller as an independent game system. 
>While you see an ever expending product line that may even include New
>Era material, I see a limited product line that has no room for such a
>publication.  While we may both agree on the possible (probable) demise
>of IG, we disagree about what will happen next.  Given what I see
>developing within the new paradigm, the best course for those who wish
>to see large quantities TNE material (as in multiple sourcebooks) lay in
>someone being allowed to license out or buyout the TNE copyright.

As I am sure Loren and perhaps even Mark will attest, one of the factors
that led to the demise of GDW (ONE of them, not all of them) were the "GDW
is going under" rumors. I suggest that it is not a good idea to be starting
this up again in relation to IG, which has enough problems of it's own, many
of which are of it's own making, true, but there is no need to throw fuel on
the fire. My feeling (and this is not fact) is that the GURPS Traveller
license came about because of a desire to make money on IG's part, and a
desire on the part of the creative minds behind Traveller to explore an
alternate timeline that they would not logically have been able to do for
some time, if ever, through IG. I think it is premature to be pronouncing
IG's doom, since they have not themselves indicated any problems exist.

Allen 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:49:59 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Loren's Dream

Loren Says:
Mainly, I've been trying to earn a living. My continual inability to win $20
Million in the Illinois lottery is a source of frustration to me. Perhaps if
I bought a ticket?

Tried it (well, Lotto 6-49 in Ontario), doesn't work. (well, not entirely
true, I won $5000 once)
What did Marc say in CT? Something to the effect of hard work doesn't work,
Travellers will have to come up with clever schemes (or something like that)
to succeed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:03:12 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)

At 05:56 AM 9/10/97 GMT, you wrote:
>On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:47:10 EDT, lugh1@juno.com wrote:

>There was no documented ground war
>between the US and the USSR in the fictitious background of T2300.
>The USSR was also still very much alive, since the game was released
>in 1986.  If you don't keep your arguments within the bounds of the
>game's history, the whole discussion becomes pointless.

Actually, there was.  2300AD is set in the same universe as T2K.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:09:45 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

>The nuclear warhead table does not show an TL advancements ie a TL 9 and TL
>15 10kt warhead are the same size. Also the nuclear warhead tables not show
>the pen/damage ratings for the radii.

Well, it can be argued that the amount of energy yield from nuclear fission
is not something one can improve on.  Perhaps there is a fusion warhead
table (I do not yet have FFS2)?

>Also give up any hope of designing a one man X-Boat without using gross
>amounts of "hand waving" the system as is, will not allow it.
>
>But I would like to find out if it can be done, so here is the criteria, a
>snow cone shaped hull, jump six jump drives, two staterooms, minimal
>kitchen area, minimal sensors, large TL 15 computers and databanks, and
>life support for two for two weeks. Design all components at TL 15. Also
>show you math work please.

Ahem, the 'canon' xboat was jump-4, not jump-6.  Saves a lot of fuel space,
as well as drive space.

>Why do the controls types have to locked into the TL of the ship, my car
>has a TL 8 IC engine ignition system but a TL5-6 Dash display ie
>speedometer and *idiot* lights.

The controls are a lot more than the dashboard gauges and the steering
wheel.  My new TL8 car has variable power steering, electronic automatic
transmission, antilock brakes, airbags, etc. that my TL7 car did not.  Sure
I could get my TL8 car with a TL5 manual transmission, but the effect would
not be significant (aside from the aggravation factor in traffic) and the
auto maker would not have really saved much money, nor would the overall
retail price drop significantly.  Besides, I would still have all those
other controls at TL8.

The other time this may matter is if the crew of a disabled starship
cobbled together a replacement control system (or subsystem) out of spares
or other system's parts.  In this case "The Referee should determine
subsequent events" and the design system should not be expected to cover
the eventuality.

>
>Under Table 163: Advanced Thrusters there is no minimum size just a minimum
>thrust.

Doesn't this translate into a minimum size?

Sam, You are coming off a bit hardnosed here (in other messages more thna
this one).  Its only a game, can you tone down the volume a bit?

Pete

Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:20:15 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Starship tickets

Bertil Jonell writes:
>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>  
>>Non-regular (tramp) ships usually only make two jumps per month, but the crew 
>>usually lives on the ship while it is in port.
> 
>  I commonly use life support costs to 'chase' the PC's off their ship
>and into a local hotel (and into the aegis of local law, local customs
>and local trouble (ie adventure)) if they get too strong tendencies 
>towards lets-just-make-money-by-spec-trade-and-avoid-all-entanglements.

All very well if it works for you, but my PCs would insist on being told
just why living aboard a ship in port is about 10 times more expensive
than living in the nearby town. I'm stretching things as it is by letting
crew on board a ship on the ground consume life support supplies. On planets
with a breathable atmosphere they really ought not to have to pay for 
anything other than food and water, something that would run to Cr10/day.

I repeat what I've claimed before: If you can subsist in comfort on a
long-term basis for Cr200 per month (lodgings not included), then Cr2000
per two weeks is far too high an expense for life support. (And _if_
Cr2000 _were_ a reasonable price for 14 days of life support, then it 
would be 50% too much for a passenger that spent only 9 to 10 days on
board).



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:29:02 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:17:29 -0700, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 11:10 AM 9/10/97 +0800, you wrote:
> 
> >> >Originally, 3G3 was _supposed_ to be the weapons design system for T4, 
> >
> >Where did you get this information from, as I have collected the last 3
> >versions of 3G(Guns Guns Gun),it was not made for T4, it was made for
> >Timelords with conversions to other systems, hell we made it fit Harnmaster
> >and among my friends its is the bible for gun design.
> 
> That's what Greg Porter told me.  He designed all the weapons in T4 and EA
> using 3G3.

While the 3G3 system may not have been "specifically" written for T4,
it is conceivable that-- with Greg's permission-- it could easily be
ported over, word-for-word, as an official T4 weapons design system
(with a few additions here and there).

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:27:57 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: IG's License Agreement text for the curious.

>On Sat, 6 Sep 1997 04:12:45 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 23:35:17 -0800
>>From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
>>Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller
>>
>>>I would be *very* afraid that this is exactly what will happen with GURPS
>>>Traveller -- SJG will be *too* successful, and will have their license
>>>"pulled"
>>>in order to protect IG's inferior products.
>>
>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't *Marc* own the Traveller license?
>
>True. But what are the terms of the agreement with Sweetpea? I would have
>thought that they would have wanted some degree of protection from just this
>possibility when they put the money up to create their subsidiary (IG) and do
>T4. After all, we're talking an entertainment company here -- and they have a
>pretty ferocious rep for contracts!

For the record, the IG contract reads as follows;

A. License Coverage. Licensor grants to Licensee and Licensee hereby accepts
	1) the exclusive right and license to utilize Licensor's Game to produce
English language printed role-playing game rules based on existing material from the Game System
Materials produced by Licensee may be characterized as the authoritative
rules for the Game System. All print materials produced by all other
publishers will not be allowed by contract and license to be characterized as
the authoritative rules for the Game System. They may be characterized as
"Licensed Products."
	2) the non-exclusive right and license to commission new original material
based on the game system, and to include other materials as Licensor may
approve.
              3) the non-exclusive right and license to utilize Licensor's Game to produce
English language printed game supplements, adventures, and other materials as
Licensor may approve.

Further, per Marc Miller (who sent me the above);

"Sweetpea holds licensing rights (again, from me) for other publication and
media deals."

Sweetpea is a *Movie Company*.  They are currently filming a D&D movie (no,
not an animated one).   They took IG over as the majority shareholder when
they were dissatisfied with the management of the company, per a clause in
their backing contract.

IG is the exclusive publisher of the "authoritative" printed Traveller
rules, but Marc has the right to license others to print
non-"authoritative" rules and supplementary material which may be
considered "authoritative" as long as they are not rules.

Sweetpea and IG do not have the ability to "pull" the license for GURPs
Traveller.  Marc Miller licensed GURPs Traveller and has the right to do
so.  His right to "pull" the license is dependent on the contract hey have,
but in light of the above carefully worded clause, I would bet good money
Marc holds the ability to at least "not approve" materials from SJG if he
so desires.

Remember that Ken Whitman made the original deal with Marc.  He is not the
lawyer type, and maybe it would not have done him any good anyway.  I bet
Marc's deal with Sweetpea is similarly tight.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:54:58 -0700
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Request for repost (was: Re: T:GURPS)

Peter Newman wrote:

>Kenji:  I regret to inform you that the secret masters have been
>informed of your attempt to out their secrets.  Please report to your
>local disintegration chambers for suitable disposition.  Failure to
>comply will result in dire consequences. :)

Their hermetically correcting hand is already upon my throat... I very
carefully deleted the folder containing the new and improved "Contact:
Sayat" documents, apparently mistaking them for old garbage files...
(retain pointed comments for your own use, s'il vous plait).  I'm trying to
retype them from memory; did anyone keep the two bits I posted to the list
a few months back?  If so, please email me a copy back to help get the, er,
juices flowing again.

I promise I'll never, ever be flippant again about Traveller Canon and
refrain from spreading malicious, ignorant lies about the Archduke -- AND
HIS TENTACLED SECRE

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:59:14 +0100
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: Ordering CORE products

Yo Folks,
     You will (hopefully) soon be able to order the new CORE products. I've
been transferred to the States for several months and am in the process of
setting up local printing and delivery, reducing the shipping cost for our
US customers. Even better, I should be able to take credit card orders!
     Right now I'm waiting on Andy to send over the master documents. Once
I have those I will update the web pages accordingly. Until then, if you
want to order existing products from the US you will need to send your
cheques somewhere else. Please write to me for details.

     CORE is also considering the possibility of pure electronic
publication. These would be supplements, software and/or fiction
distributed on disk or via the internet. By eliminating the cost of
printing and the minimum commitment of a print-run it should enable the
production of a much wider range of material.
     If you have something you might wish to have published this way,
please write to me about it (jo_grant@lotus.com). Stop just talking about a
TNE wrap-up, write it!
     Cheers,
          Jo Grant

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:39:00 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

First, some background. I run a modified MT in the year 1107 set in
the Spinward Marches. 

In my last Traveller session, my characters attempted to buy some
exlusively military weaponry, like ACR's, grenades and the like.
They're currently in Glisten/Glisten, where the law level doesn't 
permit that sort of thing. 

However, Glisten is the economic center of the subsector (and its
neighbor, District 268) and just about anything you can imagine (up
to TL15) can be purchased there. The military weapons my players wanted
were certainly in the system somewhere.

They searched and eventually found a local branch of Instellarms, the
mercenary outfitting store. A representative of that store told them
that he could have the weapons delivered to their starship, thus
circumventing the law level problem. 

At this point in the game it suddenly struck me that if it was that
easy, every munchkin character would suddenly have military weapons
galore! So I quickly had the Instellarms rep add "I just need to see
your Mercenary Guild registration, proving you're a real mercenary
outfit."

That took the characters aback. They agreed to get back to him and
promptly spent the next few days (in the game, not in real life)
registering themselves as a merc outfit. That cost them Cr100,000.
Glisten being the biggest bribery-motivated world around, they had to
shell out a few thousand more to get the application processed quickly.

So, my characters are now a merc outfit and have purchased the weapons.
Delivery will occur in two game days. 

I'm now faced with a problem. I think I've made it too easy to get
military stuff. If there is a Merc Guild, there must be annual dues
and some sort of certification and registration process. Perhaps a
representative of said Guild audits the group once per year to make
sure they're performing merc work and are deserving of the membership.

How do you handle it? Have I totally botched it up? Will my universe
be destined to fall into the hands of every joker who has a gun?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:00:29 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump Torpedos (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1792)

Harold Hale writes;
[snip good points about why a jump torpedo makes a lousy weapon]
>   Now jump torpedos as a *means of communication* have some merit.  I
>seriously doubt you could convince someone after 1130 that they are a
>good idea, but prior to that they would prove a cheaper alternative to
>sending an X-boat.  On the other hand, they would have the same problems
>that all systems without a human in loop have--what if something
>unexpected happens?  You can only program in so many "what ifs" into a
>non-sentient computer.  I don't need to tell you the problems associated
>with using them for military communications (nothing like distributing
>free copies of your subsector-wide battle plan to the enemy to put a
>crimp in your glorious conquest of the galaxy).  I could easily see the
>Imperial Scout Service deciding that the cost saving would not be worth
>the inevitable loss in reliability in communications.

Well, I think jtorps would be the perfect replacement for xboats.  They
both require a tender for pickup, face the same likelihoods of misjump or
problems, and jtorps are much cheaper to operate and build.  As for the
integrity or security of the data, hight ech means of encryption and
one-off passwords will prevent most jtorps from being hijacked for thier
information, and the rest will make for good adventure scenarios.

As far as military applications, I see a message torp from a scout about to
be destroyed by a previously unknown squadron being an invaluable piece of
intelligence data.  The scout may not be able to jump due to fuel shortage,
damage, or other considerations (perhaps there is a chance of success in
battle, but the torp will hedge the captain's bets).  Again, hightech,
relatively foolproof security arrangements will prevent the info or torp
from falling into the wrong hannds (but may prevent the info from getting
into the right hands as well).  And those situations outside the normal
course of events are good adventure seeds.

Unfortunately, due to all of this, the existence and use of message torps
is a real canon breaker and I think they should be prevented from the realm
of possibility until say (late) TL15 or TL16.  This can simply be the
requirement of a human on-board any jump-capable ship to operate the jump
drive, or astrogate through jump space in an ongoing fashion, performing
some task that would require an AI computer.

Pete

Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:17:28 -0400
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: TNE bashing

Harold:

I understand how you feel about TNE bashing. So many times, people forget
that this is largely a matter of taste. For instance, I have chosen to go
with T4 as a rules set (or more accurately. T4.1) because I prefer a simpler
game, on the whole. But I ran TNE and enjoyed it. And I still like the
background. I say, play whatever form of Traveller you enjoy, in whatever
rules system suits you.

The rest of you:

To paraphrase a show I like "Repeat to yourself "it's just a game, I should
really just relax"...too many people are getting too bent out of shape about
"canon" as if this were some sort of religious text or something. It is a
roleplaying game. Since the beginning of RPG's, they have been mutable; gm's
always change things to suit their tastes. I routinely add things like time
travel and alternate universes to my Traveller campaign. This is not canon.
Guess what: I don't care! I do not expect IG or Marc to support my
particular brand of weirdness, but I have the right to add these elements if
I wish. And, bottom line, my players enjoy it, and that is what matters most
to me. It's good to have continuity to an extent, but holding today's
authors to stuff written over 10 years ago when science, or even just
creativity, may suggest a better way is short-sighted, IMO.

I'm looking forward to GURPS Traveller, although not planning to ditch my T4
game or to quit buying IG's supplements. I will probably run some GURPS
Traveller at our local gaming club, just to get some  experience with it,
but I have played the "current" version of Traveller (whatever that is) for
a long time now, and have no intention of stopping.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:27:28 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: American Jingoism

Quote the Lindsay:
LOL!  Get off your high-horse.  You are single-handedly keeping alive
the "loudmouthed American" stereotype that so many of your fellow
countrymen hate so much.  If it ever came to an honest threat at true
"world domination" by the US, every nuclear power in the world would
very well use their arsenal to make damn sure that doesn't happen.

The South African Defence Force had a non-official motto of Cairo in 30,
meaning the SADF could fight its way to, and conquer, Cairo in 30 Days. Not
many people doubt they could have done it. The USA could have a motto of
Europe in 365, sort of. The Euros would not use their nukes on themselves,
as, other than Britain and Russia, none of them could even reach the USA.
The USA could knock them out of any war, but occupation would be out of the
question and, sooner or later, they would rejoin the war. Napeleon ran into
the same problem, he could defeat just about any comb, but keeping them down
and occupoying them proved, in the end, impossible

Now back to Traveller: The (later) Imperium is similiar to the USA in terms
of relative power to its contemporaries. It could defeat any combination of
two of them, and probably three. But to actually conquer one would take too
much of its resources  too administer. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:32:09 -0400
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Launch (TL12)

I got a copy of CSC off of the Internet and installed it on a friends
Mac and then ran my launch through it. As you can see, I used the same
basic characteristics, but the results were quite different from the
version I made with the spreadsheet.

Launch (TL12)
Designed by Greg Svenson

Summary:
     20.00 displacement ton cylinder streamlined;  252 tonnes;  MCr 8.47
Chassis:
     280 kL cylinder streamlined (16 m long x 4.7 m wide x 4.7 m high);
Structure: 15.5 tonnes of superdense, body 1.0 cm thick, sealed (1 atm),
11 armour rating
     
Performance:
     38.0 MW TL12 Fusion Plus power plant with vacuum radiators;  Fuel:
1.14 kL of enriched water (1.14 tonnes), 96 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 27.0 MW thruster;  Maximum Speed: 405 km/h;
Range: 38817 km;  Agility: -1DM
Crew & Passengers:
     Crew roster: pilot;  1 crew station;  9 roomy passenger seats
Communications:
     Far Orbit Radio (100 kW, TL12, DirAnt, DirFnd)
     Orbital Laser (1.00 MW, TL12, SmVcl, MilSpec)
Sensors:
     Active Regional Radar (1.00 kW, DispArray)  Resolution: 0.050 mm
per km of range
Other:
204 kL of cargo space (15.1 tonnes)

Designed with CSC (software (c)Robert Prior, 1997)

I hope you find this useful.
Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1801
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 10 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1802



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited (LONG)
Re: Request to Craig
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1796
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1799
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: Monetary Economics
Re: Jump in Traveller
[Off Topic] Synergetics
Re: T:2300 background
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: GURPS Traveller
USA politics, was: Traveller-digest V1997 #1797
Re: Replys
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:28:57 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited (LONG)

First off, you don't even know me, so the 'likes of you' comment is totally asinine and 
pisses me of.

Second, the comment was not about you, oh self-centered one.  Had you not been snotty and 
totally misunderstood, you wouldn't be the target for THIS message, but *YOU* misread my 
message and then get an attitude???

"Can someone spell out for this new-to-the-list person exactly what this is about?"

THIS clearly refers to ME!  I just joined the list two days ago and came in mid-thread.  I 
wanted to know what was going on.  If I meant you, it would have been proper to say THAT 
person or CHARLES.

You are at hotmail, so you must not know ettiquette or grammar.

On 10 Sep 97 at 7:18, Charles Li wrote:

From:           	"Charles Li" <chaslimd@hotmail.com>
To:             	peiprog@feist.com
Subject:        	Re: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited (LONG)
Date sent:      	Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:18:07 PDT

> 
> >
> >Can someone spell out for this new-to-the-list person exactly what this is 
> >about?
> >
> 
> =======================================================
> Listen my friend, I've been on this list under one name or another for
> quite awhile, however, I often do not feel the need to read my missives on
> the net... your offer of the having the TML enlighten me is appreciated,
> but hardly necessary from the likes of you.
> 
> CHarles
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:16:03 +0000
From: "Martin F C Pickett" <ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Request to Craig

At 23:16:10 pm -0700 Tue, 09 Sep 1997,
"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:
> At 11:12 PM 9/9/97 -0400, you wrote:
[snip]
> >Your right....its terriblly interesting!!! Unfortunately, I don't know
> >the first thing about it.  Could I convince you to use some of the above
> >mentioned enthusiasm to edify the entire list !!!!! ;->  !!!!!
> 
> De Nada.. Craig will probably amplify on what I've said here.
> 
> There are two wonderful books to look for on this subject.  The first is
> "What if the Moon didn't exist, Voyages to Earths that might have been"
> that has wandered off, so I can't remember the author.

From the files:

"A good book for planet builders is _What if the Moon Didn't Exist_ by
Neil Comins (ISBN 0-06-092556-6).  It looks in some detail at about
half a dozen scenarios, starting with the moonless Eart of the title
and getting steadily more exotic.  Covers everything from day-night
cycles through weather to speculations on biology and sociology.  His
biology is very conservative, to my tastes (if Earthly life has
trouble with a condition he'll assume all life will have trouble) but
still fun.  There's enough material here for a good set of planets,
and you could also try to reverse engineer his methods and use them
for cases he didn't consider.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu"

Martin
Martin Pickett 
ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are alive, well and living on Sylea 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:27:30 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Benjamin Barton wrote:

> 
> 
>  
> > >Originally, 3G3 was _supposed_ to be the weapons design system for T4, 
> 
> Where did you get this information from, as I have collected the last 3
> versions of 3G(Guns Guns Gun),it was not made for T4, it was made for
> Timelords with conversions to other systems, hell we made it fit Harnmaster
> and among my friends its is the bible for gun design.
> 
> 

In the original announcents from the newly formed Imperium Games, they
stated specifically that 3G3 was to be the design system for weapons, and
that Greg in addition, had been commissioned to write the CSC sourcebook.

And 3G3 is _not_ "Timelords" with other conversions...it has _always_ been
a multi-system book, it's just that it uses Timelords stats as it's native
units.

No it wasn't "made" for T4.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:27:36 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1796

Hi Allan,
- -> The reason they aren't setting it in 1107 is probably because that era has
- -> already been done! And as for contradicting MT, this is an ALTERNATE
Been done: Yes, but:
* 1116 where Strephon lives shouldn't be that much different from 1107
* It is a bad idea to introduce variants in Traveller, a game best 
known for it's excellent and consistant (??) background
* Other milieux could be delegated to SJG, staying within the 
official timeline, sharing the work of releasing new M's between IG 
and SJG (BTW, who else thinks there is enough M:0 stuff be now and 
that IG should move on to produce a second M. besides M:0?)

- -> timeline. it doesn't contradict ANYTHING. It's a "what-if" scenario. By
- -> taking the story in a different direction after 1116, they can examine what
- -> MIGHT have happened if the "assassination" hadn't occured!

Do we need a what-if scenario if there are so many wonderful other 
milieux out there? Just take the consolidation wars, the First Civil 
War, the Zhodani Sourcebook (campaigns in Zho space).....etc. 
Traveller offers so many different possibilities, that i doubt a 
Variant is needed, when a canonical period setting offers as much 
variety! Don't break what's best about Traveller, don't break it's 
history!
 
Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:38:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1799

You wrote: 

>As I am sure Loren and perhaps even Mark will attest, one of the factors
>that led to the demise of GDW (ONE of them, not all of them) were the "GDW
>is going under" rumors. I suggest that it is not a good idea to be starting
>this up again in relation to IG, which has enough problems of it's 

Maybe if IG went under, Mr. Miller could sell the rights to Traveller 
to a game company that knew what the word 'proofread' meant.


:) Did you hear IG is loosing money?  :)

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:38:37 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

Benjamin Barton wrote:
> 
> 
> > >Originally, 3G3 was _supposed_ to be the weapons design system for T4,
> 
> Where did you get this information from, as I have collected the last 3
> versions of 3G(Guns Guns Gun),it was not made for T4, it was made for
> Timelords with conversions to other systems, hell we made it fit Harnmaster
> and among my friends its is the bible for gun design.

The poster did not imply that 3G3 was *made for* T4, he stated that T4
used 3G3's design sequence -- which is absolutely true, if you've seen
Emperor's Arse or The T4 main rulebook. Greg Porter, author of 3G3,
designed the weapons for both books using 3G3, and the latest version of
3G3 includes T4 conversions.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:38:26 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

John Macpherson wrote:
> 
> 
> David Reed said:
> > On Thursday, September 04, 1997 15:32, Erwin Fritz wrote:
> > > Now, I'm not an economist, so forgive me if this idea sounds stupid.
> >
> > You're forgiven.  ;-)  I'm not an economist, either,
> 
>         Well, I _am_ and economist :-)
> 
>         Inflation and deflation are actually very simple concepts and
> their functioning in the economy is well understood.
> 
> Example:
>         Imagine an economy where the sum total of all goods are services
> available is 10 coconuts.  In this economy there are also $10 which are
> used as money. (You don't need money in an economy with only one good,
> but I'm trying to be simple).  There are $10 and 10 coconuts, so each
> dollar will be able to buy one coconut, and the price of a coconut will
> be one dollar.
>         What happens if someone discovers $10 in the sand?  Now we have
> $20 and 10 coconuts.  The price of coconuts will be bid up to $2 and we
> have inflation.
>         What happens if $5 gets washed out to sea?  Now we have $5 and 10
> coconuts.  The price of coconuts falls to .50c and we have deflation.
> 
>         Both inflation and deflation are bad, especially if unexpected.
> All the contracts, loans, price markings, etc. suddenly become out of
> whack.  When there's lots of unpredictable inflation or deflation in the
> economy it makes it difficult to plan ahead or make necessary
> investments.
>         What central banks need to do is keep the money supply matched up
> with the amount of goods in the economy.  If the economy is growing at 2%
> per annum, then the money supply should grow at 2% per annum.  This keeps
> price levels where they were.

This is a very interesting explanation. Just to throw a wrench into the
works, let me bring up the topic of interest. Your explanation makes it
clear to me how the concept of interest, especially evil compound
interest, drives inflation.

In a perfect world were coconuts are commodities and money is just a
medium of exchange, interest would be noncentsical (sp?) <BG>

In the technologically and economically advanced Imperium, perhaps the
whole notion of currency self-replication through compound interest
would be seen as incredibly backward and barbaric. Would such a system
even be viable in when information travel times are measured in weeks
and months?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:38:16 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

Richard Hough wrote:
> 
> >       The 100 Diameter Sphere. Jump uses a straight line in calculating
> >courses.
> >If that straight line intersects a 100 diameter sphere around an object, the
> >ship is "precipitated out" of jump space. It is an astrogator=92s job to
> >plot a
> >course which avoids these pitfalls (Notice that this prevents a ship from
> >emerging from jump within another object).
> 
> What happens if I plot a Jump 6 route which intersects my target planet 1
> parsec away. Do I get precipitated out at my target in just over 1 day?
> What happens to a ship that gets "precipitated out" anyway? If it's not too
> bad everybody will be using this trick.

I don't presume to speak for Marc :-) but this "precipitation" rule is
something that I've advocated before, so here's my take on it.

The trip through jumpspace is *not* equivalent to a linear voyage from
point A to point B, at a constant "hypervelocity" dependent on length of
trip. Once the ship enters jumpspace, the trip is instantaneous. The
duration of the trip is always constant because it takes one week to
exit jumpspace, not one week to make the trip.

The reasons for it taking one week to leave jumpspace can be handwaved
away. My favourite handwave is that it takes that long for the jump grid
to discharge, and until its discharge is complete, the ship must remain
in that alternate dimension of jumpspace. Other handwaves could be the
"tunnel through the earth" analogy, or jumpspace hydrogen bubble
dispersion/disintegration theory, or "grandfather made jumpspace that
way" heresy, etc.

In any case, after entering jumpspace the ship zips along the linear
line at an infinite virtual velocity until it reaches a point in space
with a certain gravitometric potential where it becomes "stuck" until
the week passes and it precipitates into normal space. Makes sense to
me.

Please note: I advocate that the ship isn't actually "moving" while in
jumpspace. Jumpspace is just a "mapping mechanism" for linking two
points in spacetime. "Velocity" and "Position" only has meaning in
normal space, it is meaningless in jumpspace.

> On the other hand, since interplanetary space is full of hydrogen atoms, I
> may get precipitated out before my ship has traveled a centimeter.
> 
> I don't like the idea of ships in J-space actually following courses in
> N-space which somehow interacts with N-space objects; it leaves a loophole
> for ships in jump to use this to communicate with, attack, or be attacked
> by other objects in N-space or in jump. Jump drive begins to look like Star
> Trek's warp drive.

I think it should be made clear that the interaction of a ship in
jumpspace with N-space is strictly with the natural gravity of N-space
objects. The force of gravity between a few atoms is infinitesimaly
insignificant.

I don't see how communication or attacks would be possible if the ship
is only affected by the natural gravity of N-space objects.

> I assume the "100 diameter" is an abstraction and the actual limit is
> determined by a gravity gradient. Otherwise the ship could lift off the
> ground and jump because the planet is just a bunch of atoms and you are
> more than 100 diameters away from any atom in the planet. How about
> figuring out the intensity of gravity 100 diameters away from a typical
> planet, saying that is the jump limit, then helpfully noting that this is
> "approximately 100 diameters" away from the planet. This fixes the 'running
> into interstellar hydrogen' problem too.

A while back Leonard and I had a little discussion on what actually was
at work here. His solution was to calculate the tidal forces of gravity.
The 100 dia. rule would only work consistantly if you calculate the
"rate of change" of gravity, not the actual "intensity of gravity".

> Also, what are the probabilites a ship misjumps or has drive failure? I
> don't like the misjump figures in T4 because they make it almost impossible
> for any ship or crew to survive even a single term.
> 
> >       Comm: Commercial and private ships using standard drives.
> >       Mil. Military ships in service.
> >       T&T. Trained and tuned. Military ships with highly trained crews and
> >carefully tuned drives.
> >       Perfect. If the rolls produce a perfect jump +/- 0, reroll on the
> >Perfect
> >column.
> 
> These need to be defined. How does the jump drive know it's on a "military"
> ship? Is the drive physically different? What exactly does a ship need to
> be "trained and tuned"?  Is there any way for players or commercial ships
> to do this? There are cases when shaving even a few hours off your travel
> time would be advantageous; maintaining a "trained and tuned" ship should
> be expensive or everyone would be doing it. My suggestion is to drop
> special "military" drives and just say military ships are all T&T.

Agreed. What makes the "military" drives so much better? And why
wouldn't commercial ventures use them? It seems to me that interstellar
commerce is the glue of the Imperium, and any technology which made
interstellar commerce safer, quicker, and more viable would be
disseminated very quickly.

Also, we have a few different systems for designing starships, and none
have a "military" designation for their jumpdrives. How are we supposed
to design military vessels? If the jumpdrives are the same cost and size
why can't commercial vessels use them? Don't give me a lame "top secret"
explanation. After thousands of years of jump drive use, I'm sure there
are no more secrets.

I don't have a problem with the "trained and tuned" designation.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:10:55 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: [Off Topic] Synergetics

On a slightly off topic note, fans of science, mathematics and geometry
may be interested in knowing that Buckminster Fuller's _Synergetics_ is
now on the web.

http://www.servtech.com/public/rwgray/synergetics/synergetics.html

It's pretty incredible that the estate of Mr. Fuller allowed this stuff
to be posted for all to see. Impressive!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 14:18:30 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: T:2300 background

> From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
> T2300 is a game that clearly includes a major nuclear exchange in the
> final years of the 20th century in its fictional history. [...]
> There was no documented ground war between the US and the USSR in the
> fictitious background of T2300.

Actually, neither of the above is exactly true.

If I recall reading the designers' notes for T:2300 correctly (and it's been
a while), the background for Traveller:2300 (aka 2300AD) was as described in
Twilight:2000; that is T:2300 is T:2000 after 300 more years.  As I recall,
the folks at GDW took the post-Twilight:2000 world, and ran it forward for
300 years using a big wargame-like scenario.  Various people "played"
different countries around the globe, and their status and development
determined in part what the T:2300 material looked like.

Thus, there was a nuclear exchange between the US and the USSR, but it was
the limited one described in T:2000 (that still crippled - not
destroyed - both countries).  There was also a major ground war, as
described in Twilight:2000.

Remember that T2300 presents this material from a perspective 300 years in
the future, so the "average" person in the game knows as much about the
actual details as the "average" person today knows about (say) the details
of the English Civil War.

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:18:40 +2
From: "RFXn" <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

On 10 Sep 97 at 8:29, John Atkinson wrote:

> Ah, but most yahoos, when I say I have a regiment of Finns from
> WWII, go 'Who?' and are completely unaware where Finland is, or that
> they fought the Soviet Union twice, much less details of their
> equipment.  So that's my yahoo protection.  If I left it out, I'd
> get 75 e-mails going, 'Wha???'

	*LOL* I've heard about it, run into it in IRC and I still have hard 
times believing it!

	BTW, the listings for Finnish military equipment in T:2000 are bit 
inaccurate. Lahti 9mm pistol (a very fine version of the classic 
Parabellum) is often said to be the standard sidearm in Finnish 
military, when in fact officers and MPs are issued ordinary FN 
Hi-Power 9mm pistols. Also, AFAIK the Valmet bullpup combat rifle 
never got off the ground properly. Paras tended to knock their front 
teeth on the protruding rear sight *ouch* and the army decided to 
update their older M-62 with rifles of almost similar design.

	I don't know much about the Lahti Anti-Armour Rifle, only that it's 
big, heavy and in Jack Higgins books IRA liked it for busting 
Saladins and Saracens and what have you. :)

/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
 -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
 -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
 -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:44:02 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

>I'm now faced with a problem. I think I've made it too easy to get
>military stuff. If there is a Merc Guild, there must be annual dues
>and some sort of certification and registration process. Perhaps a
>representative of said Guild audits the group once per year to make
>sure they're performing merc work and are deserving of the membership.
>
>How do you handle it? Have I totally botched it up? Will my universe
>be destined to fall into the hands of every joker who has a gun?

You have several choices at this point, and we have all faced this, so be calm.

1). Start running a mercenary like campaign.  You guiding principal should
be that "If my bozos can get this stuff then any bozo can....and will!".
The characters should be faced with situations that their weapons are
countered with equally good or better weapons.  This will turn your
campaign into a striker game, with tactical situations a high priority.

2). Arrange facts so that the weapons are taken away.  It could be that any
registered mercenary unit must post a roster and table of organization with
the Imperial Government, and can be called to active Imperial duty at the
posted rates at any time.  Mercenary units are also often required to "post
a bond", that is to give a large amount of money (Megacredits) to a neutral
agency like a bank as an insurance against unlawful damages.  This can be
in addition to any bond associated with specific tickets.

Oh, and if they "make up" a roster make sure they know they have to buy
life and health insurance and provide other benefits throught he Mercenary
Soldiers Guild (local 1098).

3). (My own Choice) First make sure the weapons we're talking about fall
short of thermonuclear devices and grav tanks.  Now, the plot can be a
major limiter of what weapons can be carried.  Characters who travel city
streets in civilized areas are expected to leave behind their heavy machine
guns and auto grenade launchers.  Failing to observe this can result in
things like harassment and arrest, every punk kid challenging them at every
streetcorner, citizens running in fear when they appear, etc.  If they do
bring them (say in a vehicle or something) then the environment can be a
factor in preventing said weapons from being fired ("You're gonna fire that
in *here*?  You know what all that smoke and heat will do to the life
support!?!  And you better not breach the hull!").  This will tend to limit
things to the more sedate 9mm pistols or SMGs and 4mm gauss pistols that
are the weapons I don't mind dealing with.  In this scenario there will
occasionally be the opportunity for heavy firepower, and this should be
part of the game.  Weapons that are carried are concealed.

In any situation it is important for players to carefully detail what they
are carrying.  I have held characters to the one clip in the weapon when
they failed to record what they were taking from their base or ship when
"goin to rock and roll".  It can be a source of control when the players
have to do a bunch of paperwork to casually carry around heavy stuff.

Other thoughts;

Battle Dress requires the services of a maintenance technician with armorer
skill and some specialized and expensive equiptment.  Without this service,
hardware and software errors multiply.  This applies even more to vehicles.
Remember that TL8 combat helicopters require (AFAIR) *three times* the
number of hours of maintenance as they spend flying.

In sealed areas with life support, the smoke and vapors from chemically
propelled rounds and explosives are very persistent and can cause problems
breathing, explosions cause overpressure problems like burst eardrums, and
both can raise the temperature significantly beyond the ability of life
support to counter or cause fires which can be difficult to control in the
shipboard or orbital environment.  Damage to the walls also tends to damage
sensitive electronic systems (less likely on military ships) which can
cause such effects as loss of gravity, steady decline in atmosphere
quality, secondary explosions, electrical shorts of control systems, etc.
In other words, damage is always greater than the player expects.

Heavy weapons are *heavy*.  Be sure to implement any and all encumbered
movement rules based on the weapon being carried.  Always remember that
Rambo was fictional.  Even a very strong, high endurance sophont would have
trouble handling and firing an M60 medium machine gun from the hip, or even
carrying it for any distance while running.

Count ammunition.

Good luck.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:09:03 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> Anders Backman wroe:
> 
> >
> > Don't forget the blowthrough rules in GURPS.
> > Makes those high tech gizmos somewhat less dangerous.
> 
> IIRC they only apply to bullets, not lasers or blasters.

Nope they apply to all except fire and brain shots.
- -- 
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
	Fortalice Desertum
	AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:31:43 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: USA politics, was: Traveller-digest V1997 #1797

Phillip McGregor wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:16:20 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:51:50 +0800
> >From: Michael Bailey <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
> >Subject: Australian socialist = liberal?
> >
> >Of course Phil, the ALP covers everything from the old Keatiing rabid Right
> >to the Loony Left...
> >
> >...hey, I wonder if MM used the ALP as the basis for the Solomani Party? *g*
> 
> But I'm only putting it in terms that the Yanks (and other USAns) on the list
> will understand ... after all, in Oz terms, American "liberals" are far right
> crazies! And I don't think that most USAns would either understand (or like)
> that comparison ... flame retardant underwear <on>.

Nope, Phil, you got that right. Both sides here in the US arn't
diferant. Both
groups spend more time arguing about were to add to the Gubberment,
instead
of more or less control. 
- -- 
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
	Fortalice Desertum
	AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:17:06 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Replys

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
> Subject: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited (LONG)
> 
> > One last thing, please stop SJG from substituting his Tech levels for
> > Travellers.
> 
> I don't see that I have a lot of choice in the matter...

I don't have SJG's writers guide handy, but I seem to recall that is one
of the
topics covered. A section detailing diferances would be Kosher. 

> David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
> Subject: The dread TIV virus (was RE: GURPS Traveller)
> 
> David Reed:
> 
> >On Friday, September 05, 1997 19:26, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> >> > Gurps Traveller is not really T5...I would call it T IV : )
> >
> >Is that anything like HIV?
> 
> It is the letter "T" followed by the Roman Numeral IV ("four" to
> those of you who are Latin challenged). An alternate universe
> represented by an alternate numbering system -- qite a jest, eh what?
>  I could have said it was T100 (am I getting binary for four correct?).

Or simply TG, for Traveller:Gurps

> > * SJG will InvalidateRect the BEST milieu Traveller ever had!
> 
> Nobody's invalidating anything.
> 
> > Bring back the Rebellion and Hard Times!!!
> They are not gone.

Heck those would make great follow up products.

> > Loren Wiseman
> 
> > Welcome back, Loren!  Whatcha been up to?
> 
> Mainly, I've been trying to earn a living. My continual inability to win $20
> Million
> in the Illinois lottery is a source of frustration to me. Perhaps if I bought
> a ticket?

Hey, that sounds like me and IGT's Quartermania
- -- 
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
	Fortalice Desertum
	AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:59:42 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

At 08:39 AM 9/10/97 -0600, Erwin Fritz wrote:
>First, some background. I run a modified MT in the year 1107 set in
>the Spinward Marches. 
>
>In my last Traveller session, my characters attempted to buy some
>exlusively military weaponry, like ACR's, grenades and the like.
>They're currently in Glisten/Glisten, where the law level doesn't 
>permit that sort of thing. 
....
>I'm now faced with a problem. I think I've made it too easy to get
>military stuff. If there is a Merc Guild, there must be annual dues
>and some sort of certification and registration process. Perhaps a
>representative of said Guild audits the group once per year to make
>sure they're performing merc work and are deserving of the membership.

They are now registered.  This means that they must show proof of
compliance to the IRW, they must have repatriation accounts listed in the
appropriate banks, or file papers saying that they do not repatriate their
members, they must buy casualty insurance, and most important:

They are listed in the "dangerous persons" directory, available to
virtually all worlds.  Every time they land, the world in question will get
notice that they have just let a group of known killers for hire land.  Now
in many cases, this is good.  It can lead to lucrative contracts, and
interesting people, but they are now on the map.  If they are trying to
smuggle something forget it!

On the other hand, locals are likely to consider asking them for help if
they have a problem.  Consider this scenario - they land and go through the
usual customs inspection, and then the extra thorough smuggling one that
all mercs face.  After this terrible process, they are all dragged before
the head of security who tells them "Guys, I need a bit of help.  Too many
people are smuggling things through my port.  Can you help me out?"

Note also that in my world, a merc band is responsible for site security,
so it someone breaks into their ship and steals weapons not allowed at the
current TL, the players are responsible for what is done with the weapons.
Merc ships stop this by posting a guard detail on the armory.

>How do you handle it? Have I totally botched it up? Will my universe
>be destined to fall into the hands of every joker who has a gun?

Not at all - think of it as requiring a beeper that notifies all police
within a hundred miles that you have a concealed carry permit for a gun.
This is quite fair - they have the right to carry tools of their profession
that worlds would like to regulate, and Imperial law makes it possible for
them to circumvent some local policies.  In return, they bear a greater
level of responsibility and risk.

I like your Mercenaries Guild idea, and will likely steal it for my own use.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1802
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 10 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1803


(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv
The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD) (long)
[none]
Re: Imperial World Makeup
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1799
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Big skill Monte Carlo post make it to the rest of you?
Re: Request to Craig
Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789)
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: Relativistic equations?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:39:06 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Erwin Fritz wrote:

>First, some background. I run a modified MT in the year 1107 set in
>the Spinward Marches.

Okay, cool. I run a TNE Regency mercenary campaign.

>At this point in the game it suddenly struck me that if it was that
>easy, every munchkin character would suddenly have military weapons
>galore! So I quickly had the Instellarms rep add "I just need to see
>your Mercenary Guild registration, proving you're a real mercenary
>outfit."

Good call. Though I'm having humorous visions of the Bob Dole Visa
commercial where he comes to the lunchcounter and the cashier says, "Okay,
can I see some ID?" Bob looks at the camera and says, "I just can't win."
<g>

I don't know that it would be required to be a member of a mercenary guild,
but that's certainly as good a solution as any. (In my campaign, the
mercenary guild is actually an extortion outfit that preys on fledgling
merc units.)

What they *would* require are permits to use and ship weaponry wherever
they were to take a ticket. Mercenary weaponry in Traveller tends to be a
bit more than your average hunting rifle, so I would imagine that there
would be a cost associated with approving both the types of weaponry they
intend to carry and the process by which the mercenaries ensure that their
weaponry is properly stowed away. In addition, they would be required to
sign affidavits that ensure they will not sell or give away this weaponry
to any parties that come calling.

The other element that might come into play is a Repatriation Bonding
Authority. Megacorporation Hortalez et cie is said to be a "mercenary
clearing house," specializing in selling repatriation bonds to mercenary
units so that they have a means of getting off whatever rock they're stuck
on if they get shafted by their patron.

Agencies like Hortalez aren't going to bond just anyone. If they bond some
mercenary unit that goes out and massacres a bunch of civilians on some
backwater world, the bonding authority is probably going to be held partly
liable for insuring such unscrupulous mercs. Mercenaries that flout the
laws of the Imperium (or the Regency in my case) are not likely to get
bonded in the future and may find themselves either imprisoned somewhere
the next time they're end up on the "losing side," or they'll find that
their reputation is tarnished and companies like Instellarms won't even
deal with them in the future.

>That took the characters aback. They agreed to get back to him and
>promptly spent the next few days (in the game, not in real life)
>registering themselves as a merc outfit. That cost them Cr100,000.
>Glisten being the biggest bribery-motivated world around, they had to
>shell out a few thousand more to get the application processed quickly.

Sounds like a fair price.

>I'm now faced with a problem. I think I've made it too easy to get
>military stuff. If there is a Merc Guild, there must be annual dues
>and some sort of certification and registration process. Perhaps a
>representative of said Guild audits the group once per year to make
>sure they're performing merc work and are deserving of the membership.
>
>How do you handle it? Have I totally botched it up? Will my universe
>be destined to fall into the hands of every joker who has a gun?

I make the Bonding Authority charge them a percentage of their ticket price
every time they take a job. I've also written a draft of the "Regency Rules
of War" that gives them a fairly stringent guideline on what weapons they
can use and where.

I don't think you're risking your universe, but you may want to be careful
about the power level of the weapons they're carrying. The more powerful
the guns, the more powerful the guns their enemies will carry. You can end
up in an arms race that results in mutually assured destruction! Establish
that the cutting-edge weaponry is reserved for the military alone except in
rare instances. Also, if they clamor for more powerful weaponry and armor,
subtly remind them that the guy in the suit of battledress, carrying the
FGMP-15 is the *first* one to get shot at by the vehicle-mounted plasma
gun. ;-)

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:46:05 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex

John Atkinson writes:

>>   Continuing the analogy...
>>
>>   Thereby creating a new empire (Byzantium) that was Greek, not 
>>Latin.
>
>Yet who's armies continued to march under banners bearing 'SPQR'.  

   And how many of the soldiers who marched under it knew what it meant?

>Just don't buy any red footware unless you are really, really, really 
>sure of yourself.

   Or are prepared to be blinded, exiled, poisoned, stabbed, drown,
strangled or overrun by Crusaders or Turks in the process.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:30:39 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv

The Perfect Game wrote:
> 
> How about an initiation?
> 
> When the delivery date draws near, the Guild intercepts the delivery,
> requiring the party to undertake a dangerous yet much needed mission for the
> Guild.
> 
> They are welcome to forgo their membership, sans refund. :)
> 

That's an interesting idea. Of course, the mission couldn't require
firearms and armor, since the characters wouldn't have them yet. That
limits the possibilities somewhat but I have a few possible adventures
up my sleeve.

However, what I was looking for was a more general set of guidelines
on how all the referees out there handle merc units, or PCs attempting
to become them.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:45:23 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD) (long)

James Lindsay writes:

On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:47:10 EDT, lugh1@juno.com wrote:

> >Its a game, and a game that's been out of print for like 7 years or 
> >something absurd like that, relax.  If America was involved in WW3 with
> >limited nuclear exchange, the U.S.ed be in a heap of trouble.  That's
> >the way it goes.
>
> you mean like all the trouble we had in the gulf ? 
> 1. warsaw pact equipment was and is far inferior [ TL 6 ] versus our
> hardware [TL8]
>     dureing the '80's the media had built up the soviets as a major
> threat when infact the basic soviet troop is not trained to read a map
> and the average soviet rifle company possess' one radio .

   Without question in the Real World, the NATO of 1986 (even minus
France) could have defeated (at great loss of life on all sides) a
Soviet invasion of West Germany, assuming no nukes.  We know this now in
hind sight, we didn't know it in 1986 (when T:2000 was written).  

   In the scenario presented in T:2000 everybody who ever had a grudge
against anybody (I'm surprised the UK didn't invade France and restart
the Hundred Years' War) started shooting it out with each other--IMHO it
wouldn't have come down that way, but that's another story.  Anyway, if
Frank Chadwick et al. were to sit down and rewrite everything, it would
come across a whole lot differently in light of the Gulf War.

>Oh please.  Aren't you paying attention?  T2300 is a game that clearly
>includes a major nuclear exchange in the final years of the 20th
>century in its fictional history.  You cannot compare conventional
>tactics and equipment to hundreds of nuclear warheads being exchanged
>between the two biggest players of the cold war (not to mention the
>other nuclear powers as well).  There was no documented ground war
>between the US and the USSR in the fictitious background of T2300.
>The USSR was also still very much alive, since the game was released
>in 1986.

   Nukes are the great equalizer, which is why the NATO strategy for so
many years depended upon them.  It made any conventional invasion of the
West a non-starter (no one wants to be king of a glass parking lot). 
It's also why the Israelis have nukes, why Pakistan wants nukes, and why
South Africa wanted nukes but later gave up (power changed hands
peaceably).

   The background of 2300AD was the aftermath of the war fought in
T:2000.  Civilization is nearly driven to the brink and then crawls back
further along than it was before the war.  I have a *number* of problems
with the history, some related to the way the US was handled (mostly
related to the Mexican occupation of the southwest U.S., which was
pretty bogus in T:2000 and made even less sense in 2300AD), but also
Australia and a few other places.

>> soviet vehicles are made of magnesium alloy [ they burn ] 

   The BMP is inferior to the Bradley in a number of ways, but the
flammable armor isn't one them.

>> If the U.S were to mobilize and engage in world domination , sans nukes
>> the world would fall in under two years . 

   Given the current state of the US military I would beg to differ--it
is simply too small for the job.  Now, if the US suddenly started a
massive build-up (which the Chinese and other countries would
reciprocate), when in 10 years it might have enough forces to try to do
the job.  Latin America would fall pretty quickly as would Canada, and
then Africa.  I'd *really* love to have some nukes in the Middle East,
but since I can't, I take it too at great loss to civilian life.  OK,
who's next?  Central Asia...OK, we bypass Afghanistan for now (we'll hit
it later) and go directly against India and Pakistan.  Not much of a
contest.  Southwest Asia even easier.  While the Australians would put
up a valiant effort, too much of their population is along the coast,
making them vulnerable to the US Navy.  Seeing the hand writing on the
wall, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and the rest of Asia minus China and
Mongolia surrender without a shot.  Pacific Islands ditto.  Where are we
now?  Oh yeah, Europe.  Hmmm.  You're absolutely sure I can't have nukes
eh?  Well ok, first Portugual and Spain, then Italy and the rest of the
Med.  From Turkey I launch an invasion into the Balkans and reach
Vienna.  My forces in Italy link up with them and drive into southern
Germany.  Meanwhile, my forces in Spain drive into France, reaching the
Rhine in less than three months.  Linking up the last of my forces, I
drive into Poland and eastern Europe, stopping just short of the Russian
border (I'll save them for later).  This leaves the Swiss, which like
Afghanistan, I'm going to leave alone for a while, and the UK which I
will first have to shoot down their air force and then bring my naval
forces to bear blockading them and then bombing them until when my
amphibious forces arrive they find nothing but ruins and scarecrows. 
Scandanavia falls much quicker.  Now what am I left with?  Russia and
China.  Hmmm.  I'll take China out first.  Massive civilian casualities,
and almost equally massive military ones (did I mention I'd really
*love* to have some nukes at this point?).  This leaves Russia which is
going to have to be attacked by surprise (as if that's possible) because
of all the nukes they have laying around.  Conventional forces drive in
from the east, since it is only fronm the east that Russia can be
conquered (seems like I read that some place).  I then clean up all
those nasty spots I bypassed earlier by basically depopulating them
first with convention weapons (primarily napalm-based weapons).

   Now what's the totals?  Well it didn't take two years, more like
twelve.  Probably slightly under one billion dead (unless the Russians
let lose with a few nukes before they fall, then it would probably be
more like a billion and a half).  Much of the world economy wreaked. 
Infrastructure ruined in much of the world.  It will cost trillions to
rebuild everything.  Now I have to set up occupation forces...

   That's right.  Just because you can conquer the world doesn't mean
that you can hold onto it afterwards.  So the US could kick the ass of
any country.  Why?  What purpose would it serve?  Kicking ass is one
thing, but would you really want to be in charge of what's left
afterwards?  There are places in this world where you will have to kill
most of the population to bring them in line.  What will we become in
the process?  

>LOL!  Get off your high-horse.  You are single-handedly keeping alive
>the "loudmouthed American" stereotype that so many of your fellow
>countrymen hate so much.  

   Confidence is a powerful aphrodisac.  Over confidence kills.  While
much of what he said was accurate, some of it bears restatement or
withdrawal.

>If it ever came to an honest threat at true
>"world domination" by the US, every nuclear power in the world would
>very well use their arsenal to make damn sure that doesn't happen.

   I seriously doubt that any nukes would fall on US soil that didn't
have Cyrillic writing on them, but that's not how we operate.  We prefer
to let our merchants do our world dominating for us.  Afterall, we are
the cultural Borg....  :-)

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:23:44 -0700
From: Scott Foster <scottfo@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: [none]

unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:27:36 -0400
From: "John Watts" <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial World Makeup

>In M0, I wander what the makup of the populations of the worlds of the
>Imperium would be. There is a lot of talk of the Aristocracy (well, a lot
>of hints) being mostly Solomani in make up. Just how many solomani made
>it to the Sylean regions.

Well, I would imagine it would have a great percentage of English speakin
nations ( Amercians, Canadians, British, Australians, etc ).  After all it
isnt called galANGLIC for nothing :).

Actually....I was wondering what any of this had to do with Maybelline
terraforming planets.....




It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed.
My hands begin to shake.  The shakes are a warning.
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:58:46 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1799

At 11:38 AM 9/10/97 -0500, John Atkinson wrote:
>You wrote: 
>>As I am sure Loren and perhaps even Mark will attest, one of the 
>>factors that led to the demise of GDW (ONE of them, not all of them)
>>were the "GDW is going under" rumors. I suggest that it is not a good
>>idea to be starting this up again in relation to IG...

>Maybe if IG went under, Mr. Miller could sell the rights to Traveller 
>to a game company that knew what the word 'proofread' meant.

Turn the question around:

Name a game company that knows what "proofread" means, and then ask if they
are interested in publishing one Traveller supplement a month for at least
the next year or two.

According to Marc, a year ago, IG was the only group willing to step up to
the plate.  After reading First Survey and Starships, I am not convinced
yet that this was an overall victory, but after reading FF&S2, Pocket
Empires, and all of the Core stuff, I am starting to think there is light
at the end of the tunnel.

IG still needs to learn to proofread, but the stuff they are producing now
has intrinsic value that would be enhanced with good artwork, good editing,
and good proofing, not completely created.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:11:38 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
> You have several choices at this point, and we have all faced this, so be calm.
> 
> 2). Arrange facts so that the weapons are taken away.  It could be that any
> registered mercenary unit must post a roster and table of organization with
> the Imperial Government, and can be called to active Imperial duty at the
> posted rates at any time.  Mercenary units are also often required to "post
> a bond", that is to give a large amount of money (Megacredits) to a neutral
> agency like a bank as an insurance against unlawful damages.  This can be
> in addition to any bond associated with specific tickets.
> 

I like this idea. They've formed a Commando unit, on paper. In reality,
they just want to be a merc team so they can get military stuff. They
have no interest in actually running in merc adventures.

I think that good ol' Hortalez et Cie, on behalf of the Imperial 
government, will be collecting a MCr10 deposit from them. Heh heh.

> Oh, and if they "make up" a roster make sure they know they have to buy
> life and health insurance and provide other benefits throught he Mercenary
> Soldiers Guild (local 1098).
> 

Since all the members of the merc team are PCs, this probably won't
work. They'll just agree to waive them. But I'll keep this in mind
in case they hire anyone.

> 3). (My own Choice) First make sure the weapons we're talking about fall
> short of thermonuclear devices and grav tanks.  Now, the plot can be a
> major limiter of what weapons can be carried.  Characters who travel city
> streets in civilized areas are expected to leave behind their heavy machine
> guns and auto grenade launchers.  Failing to observe this can result in
> things like harassment and arrest, every punk kid challenging them at every
> streetcorner, citizens running in fear when they appear, etc.  If they do
> bring them (say in a vehicle or something) then the environment can be a
> factor in preventing said weapons from being fired ("You're gonna fire that
> in *here*?  You know what all that smoke and heat will do to the life
> support!?!  And you better not breach the hull!").  This will tend to limit
> things to the more sedate 9mm pistols or SMGs and 4mm gauss pistols that
> are the weapons I don't mind dealing with.  In this scenario there will
> occasionally be the opportunity for heavy firepower, and this should be
> part of the game.  Weapons that are carried are concealed.
> 

I do this already. This isn't the first time that they've gotten 
serious guns and armor; it's just the first time they've gotten 'em
so easily. Usually they have to pick 'em off the dead bodies of their
opponents or go through other serious sweat before they get a small
number of weapons.

> Battle Dress requires the services of a maintenance technician with armorer
> skill and some specialized and expensive equiptment.  Without this service,
> hardware and software errors multiply.  This applies even more to vehicles.
> Remember that TL8 combat helicopters require (AFAIR) *three times* the
> number of hours of maintenance as they spend flying.
> 

I like this idea. They don't have battle dress but they do have combat
armor. I'll assume that Vacc Suit or Battle Dress skill is required to 
maintain combat armor. Maybe I'll use something like this:

	To don combat armor:
	Simple, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Dexterity, 2 min (fateful).
	Referee: An automatic mishap occurs when this roll fails.
	Increase the difficulty one level if no skill present or if
  	proper maintenance not done.

Maintenance could be done according to the following task:

	To perform routine maintenance on combat armor:
	Difficult, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Education, 10 min (safe).

Thoughts?


> 
> Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
> "Shiela-X where are you"

Ya know, when Shiela-X was first posted to the TML, I saved the post.
I later used her for several sessions as an NPC passenger in the 
PC's ship. Much fun was had by all, especially the two male PCs who
were both attracted to her.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:38:22 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Big skill Monte Carlo post make it to the rest of you?

Hey, did my post describing a Monte Carlo that determined how many skills a
character should expect at each level of skill make it to the list?

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:14:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Request to Craig

> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:16:10 -0700
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
> Subject: Re: Request to Craig
> 
> >No prob...world-building is one of my favorite hobbies, and I'm enjoying
> >this immensely.
> >
> >   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
> 
> >Great....would you mind giving a brief tutorial???
> 
> Will his younger, better looking brother do?

Only if the original's not available. :)

> >What is tidaly locked and what does it imply?
> 
> a tidaly locked world always presents the same face to the object it is
> orbiting.  The most obvious example is our Moon.  For a planet, it would
> leave one hemisphere eternally lit, the other in perpetual darkness, with a
> Twilight Zone at the terminator.

> >How does a world get tidally locked?
> 
> Age is one way, worlds naturally slow down.  There are other mechanisms,
> but friction and the "drag" of gravity are the main culprits.

Planets may seem pretty solid, but in fact they can and do deform slightly
under gravitational influence.  For example, the moon pulls on the near
side of earth a bit stronger than on the far side, which cause the earth
to deform into a (very slight) ovoid shape, with its long axis aimed at
the moon.  The oceans deform this way more than the land does, which is
what causes the familiar ocean tides.

Tidal drag on rotation occurs because the 'bulge' under the moon (or other
body, in non-terran cases) does not rise and fall instantly under the
moon.  Instead, it lags behind the sublunar point, due to the resistance
to deformation of the earth.  This in turn creates a gravitation 'handle',
which the moon tugs 'backward' on, slowing the earth's rotation.  At the
same time, the bulge tugs 'forward' on the moon, moving it into a higher
(and hence longer-period) orbit.  Left to themselves, the earth and moon
would eventually reach a state in which the terran day, the lunar day, and
the lunar orbital period were all equal at about 60 current days...but the
sun will go red-giant long before then and make the point moot.

The same process -- pulling 'backward' on a tidal bulge -- is responsible
for all tidal locking.

> >You or someone else mentioned that somehow tides could somehow start a
> >planetary rotation or make it stop....How does this occure.
> 
> The orbit of the Moon around the Earth produces a noticable bulge in the
> crust.. This speeds up the Earth's rotation by a microscopic amount.  It
> also robs the Moon of a tiny bit of it's velocity, causing the Moon to
> recede slightly.

You've actually got this almost precisely backward, Douglas.  The Earth's
rotation slows down, with the angular momentum transfered to the moon,
which hence speeds up -- which, thanks to the truly wonderful weirdness of
orbital mechanics, causes it to move into a higher, *slower* orbit.  Go
figure...

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:08:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789)

In mail you write:

> You wrote: 
>
>>   Continuing the analogy...
>>
>>   Thereby creating a new empire (Byzantium) that was Greek, not 
> Latin.
>
> Yet who's armies continued to march under banners bearing 'SPQR'.  
>
> Just don't buy any red footware unless you are really, really, really 
> sure of yourself.

Definition of "certain": "Can I kill you if you are wrong?"

:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:00:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

In mail you write:

>> >Originally, 3G3 was _supposed_ to be the weapons design system for T4, 
>
> Where did you get this information from, as I have collected the last 3
> versions of 3G(Guns Guns Gun),it was not made for T4, it was made for
> Timelords with conversions to other systems, hell we made it fit Harnmaster
> and among my friends its is the bible for gun design.

Whoa! 

You seem to have read his comment as "3G3 was designed to be the
weapons system for T4". That's *not* what he said.

Try reading it as "the original intent of the IG was to use 3G3 as the
weapons design system for T4".

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:46:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

In mail you write:

> I assume the "100 diameter" is an abstraction and the actual limit is
> determined by a gravity gradient. Otherwise the ship could lift off the
> ground and jump because the planet is just a bunch of atoms and you are
> more than 100 diameters away from any atom in the planet. How about
> figuring out the intensity of gravity 100 diameters away from a typical
> planet, saying that is the jump limit, then helpfully noting that this is
> "approximately 100 diameters" away from the planet. This fixes the 'running
> into interstellar hydrogen' problem too.

We did some figuring a while back. The formula that caused the least
hassles with reality involved an inverse cube law (just like tidal
forces).

Roughly, you figure that the property (call it X) is calculated like this:

X = GM/(r^3)

Where G = gravitional constant (6.673e-11 N m^2/kg^2)
      M = mass of body
      r = distance from body.

Let's figure for Earth, both because it's the "standard" for planetary
size and mass, and because we have good figures.

For Earth, GM = 3.986e14 m^3/s^2
    Earth's radius = 6371 km 

So, at 100 diameters, X = 1.93e-13 s^-2
The unit is "actually" (m/s^2)/m, that is acceleration change per meter.
At 10 diameters, X = 1.93e-10 s^-2

Note that the difference in gravity gradient is a factor of 1000! No
wonder a jump at 10 diameters is so dangerous!

Also note that we have a nicely "round" figure to use for the official
safety margins:

"100 dia" actually means 2e-13 s^-2
" 10 dia" actually means 2e-10 s^-2

X=GM/R^3
XR^3=GM
R^3=GM/X
R=cube root(GM/X)

And this means that *density* matters. You can jump a lot closer to a
low density object. This gets around the problem of the "100 dia" limit
of the *star* being too far out so often.

100 diameter limit for Sol: 1.39e11 m (139   million km, .93 AU)
           2e-13 s^2 limit: 8.72e10 m ( 87.2 million km, .58 AU)

One way Venus can't be jumped to, the other way it can.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:19:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Relativistic equations?

I saw this and realized the relevance to the recent discussions on
acceleration. Hopefully someone on the list will post the formulas for
all the hyperbolic functions.

[re-mailed to you from rec.arts.sf.science]
[the original seemed to come from wwoods@ix.netcom.com]

The first equation should be:

tau = (2c/a)arccosh[ 1 + (a/2c^2)S ] -> (2c/a)ln[ (a/c^2)S ].
                       ^

For the second, I get these expressions for Vmax:

v( tau(S/2) ) = c*tanh[ (a/c)tau ] = c*tanh[ arccosh{ 1 + (a/2c^2)S } ]
v( T(S/2) )   = c*[ 1 + (c/aT)^2 ]^-0.5
              = c*[ 1 - ( 1 + (a/2c^2)S )^-2 ]^0.5     check
 
 
 
Here's a collection of more-or-less relevant formulas and stuff: 

  Assuming a magical stardrive which allows you to accelerate
continuously at constant acceleration a, as measured onboard the ship,

a  : ship acceleration
tau: ship time (proper time)
d  : ship distance

T: Earth time
D: Earth distance
A: Earth acceleration

Mo: initial mass
M : mass of ship

theta(tau) = (a/c)tau        : velocity parameter
beta = v/c  = tanh(theta)
            = tanh((a/c)tau)
gamma = 1/sqrt[ 1 - beta^2 ]

v(tau) = c*tanh[(a/c)tau]
D(tau) = (c^2/a)*( cosh[(a/c)tau] - 1 )
tau(D) = (c/a)arccosh[ (a/c^2)D + 1 ]
d(tau) = D/cosh(theta) = (c^2/a)*( 1 - sech[(a/c)tau] ) -> c^2/a
                      d ~ c^2/a for tau > 6c/a

T(tau) = (c/a)sinh((a/c)tau)        (a/c)T   =    sinh( (a/c)tau )
tau(T) = (c/a)arcsinh((a/c)T)       (a/c)tau = arcsinh( (a/c)T   )

Alternately, in the frame of a stationary observer,
your acceleration is measured as:

A = a / gamma^3

A(v) = a*sqrt( 1 - (v/c)^2 )^3
D(T) = (c^2/a)*( sqrt[1 + ((a/c)T)^2] - 1 )
T(D) = (c/a)sqrt[ ( (a/c^2)D + 1 )^2 - 1 ]
v(T) = a*T / sqrt[ 1 + ((a/c)T)^2 ]
     = c / sqrt[ 1 + (c/aT)^2 ]
beta(T) = v(T)/c = 1 / sqrt[ 1 + (c/aT)^2 ]

tau(T) = (c/a)ln[ (a/c)T + sqrt( 1 + ((a/c)T)^2 ) ]

A(T) = a / sqrt( 1 + ((a/c)T)^2 )^3

For acceleration at 10 m/s^2, the time taken to reach various distances
is:

Earth Dist :   Earth time       speed         ship time   ship distance
__________     __________       _____         _________   _____________

   .06 ly :       0.34 yr      0.34     c      0.34 yr     0.06 ly
  0.25 ly :       0.73 yr      0.61     c      0.67 yr     0.20 ly
  0.50 ly :       1.10 yr      0.755    c      0.94 yr     0.33 ly
    1 ly :        1.70 yr      0.873    c      1.28 yr     0.49 ly
    2 ly :        2.79 yr      0.9467   c      1.71 yr     0.64 ly
    4 ly :        4.86 yr      0.9814   c      2.22 yr     0.77 ly
   10 ly :       10.91 yr      0.99622  c      2.98 yr     0.87 ly
   25 ly :       25.93 yr      0.99932  c      3.80 yr     0.92 ly
   50 ly :       50.94 yr      0.99982  c      4.44 yr     0.93 ly
  100 ly :      100.95 yr      0.999947 c      5.09 yr     0.94 ly
 1000 ly :     1000.95 yr      0.999991 c      7.27 yr     0.95 ly
10000 ly :    10000.98 yr      0.999992 c      9.46 yr     0.95 ly
                                                        d -> 0.9500 ly
 
For a trip which goes from standing start to standing finish,
calculate the time to cover half the distance,
then double the T and tau variables.

DistAlphaCen    = 4.3 ly = 41 Pm = 41e15 m
    1/2 DAC     = 20.5e15 m
    1/2 tauAC   = 55.7e6 sec
    1/2 TAC     = 93.7e6 sec
TauToAlphCen    = 111e6 sec = 3.5 yr
TimeToAlphaCen  = 187e6 sec = 5.9 yr
 

For a perfectly efficient photon rocket,

theta = ln(Mo/M) , so        M(tau) = Mo*e^[-(a/c)tau]

or more conveniently,        theta(Tau1/2) = ln(2) = 0.7

so the rockets halflife is  Tau1/2 = 0.7c/a

for instance, for a = 1 kgal (= 1000 cm/s^2 ~ 1 "gee")
Tau1/2 = 21e6 s ~ 8 months

TauToAlphaCen = 111e6 s = 3.5 years ~ 5.3 Tau1/2
so initially the rocket must be more than 31/32 fuel.
 

- --
   Bill Woods

"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program"

                                             -Larry Niven
     


- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1803
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 10 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1804



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mining, core and ice
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv
Re: Request to Craig
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Replys [sic]
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1796
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)
Curious
Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD) (long)
Re: Tech Levels
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:30:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mining, core and ice

In mail you write:

>> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:07:22 +0200 (MET DST)
>> From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
>> 
>> By the way, at what depth would one expect these gemstones to exist,
>> especially the opals, which is a very beautiful stone? I was thinking of
>> making it a planet, dominatedby a mining corp that specialize in a special
>> type of opal only yet found at this place.
>
> Gemstones in general require heat and pressure to form.  Thus, they are
> found near volcanic structures, or where old deep crust has been exposed
> by weathering, uplift, or a combination of the two.  This is a good reason
> to use Doug's molten-core model.  The world need not be currently
> volcanically active (though it could be); Mars's extinct but large
> volcanos would be a good model for you.

On the other hand, opals *cannot* take "high" temperatures. Part of
what makes an opal pretty is water trapped in the structure. If you dry
it out it looks more like chalk!

Also, because opals *require* water to form, they may not be the best
gem for this world. They form where heat and pressure allow the water
to dissolve large amounts of silica from the surrounding rocks, and it
gets deposited as zillions of tiny spheres, packed together. It's that
"packed together" bit that has so far prevented the production of
decent synthetic opal. The synthetics are "packed" but they've been
created so "fast" that the spheres don't bond well. this results in a
tendency to crumble into powder under the least bit of mechanical
stress. 

> As for depth, they could be found all through the crust, though obviously
> a mining operation would tend to focus on the more accessible veins near
> the surface -- say 0 to 2 km down, perhaps.

Opals need the lower pressure near the surface, but 2 km is "near the
surface". :-)

>> This is mainly for plot reasons. The mining operation is very high
>> security, and with a scientist research station on the planet this
>> security would be harder to maintain. I'm tinking of getting the
>> characters involved in some way between this research station and the
>> mining corp.
>
> Perhaps the science station has a reserved region for study, including all
> the crustal zone underneath it, and the mining company has found a rich
> vein down there and is trying to sneak a tunnel through to mine it.  The
> players are hired/asked by the scientists to help prove this is going on
> so they can register a complaint with the world's Imperial administrator,
> who's due for a visit on-world in a few weeks.

Slight problem. We could detect a stunt like that *now*. Geologists use
seismometers that will plot disturbances to within a few feet from
miles away. Tunneling *will* show up. Even if they managed to dig it
without making enough "noise" to be picked up, the tunnel itself will
stand out like a sore thumb whenever the scientists create "noise" to
plot the structure of the rock by plotting the echoes.

Better idea would be for the mining company to be trying to hide the
fact that they've found some new type of mineral. Most likely a
gemstone (note: even "semi-precious stones" like jasper are worth money
if there's a lot of it, and it looks "pretty" enough). They are
(rightly!) concerned that the scientists would want to study the stuff
for a decade or two before allowing the miners to exploit the find.

This would be *especially* true if the deposit isn't big, and the
mineral is unique enough in appearance.

ps. to be a "gemstone" a mineral not only has to "look neat", but it
has to be hard enough that it doesn't get scratched in everyday
handling. That's why (for example) autunite, which is this *striking*
fluoresecent yellow color, *isn't* a gemstone. The stuff is about as
hard as gypsum, and tends to form in masses of tiny crystals to boot.
So it's *pretty*, but apt to turn into a yellow lump or worse yet, a
pile of yellow powder, if you tried using it for decoration.

pps. Cute idea a friend came up with once. I don't know if it is
possible, but it *sounds* neat. Uranyl silicate crystals. That is, a
silicate (quartz-like material), with a high percentage of uranium in
it. The part we weren't sure about was whether or not you could still
get a decently hard (and at least semi-transparent) crystal *and* have
it be radioactive enough to have an "inner glow" (from Cherenkov
radiation). You might need radium or one of the scarcer radioactives
instead of uranium to make it work.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:33:12 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv

AH!  I thought they were just trying to get mil weapons for a specific reason -- like an 
easy way out or something.

On 10 Sep 97 at 13:30, Erwin Fritz wrote:

Date sent:      	Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:30:39 -0600
From:           	Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
To:             	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject:        	Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv
Send reply to:  	traveller@MPGN.COM

> The Perfect Game wrote:
> > 
> > How about an initiation?
> > 
> > When the delivery date draws near, the Guild intercepts the delivery,
> > requiring the party to undertake a dangerous yet much needed mission for
> > the Guild.
> > 
> > They are welcome to forgo their membership, sans refund. :)
> > 
> 
> That's an interesting idea. Of course, the mission couldn't require
> firearms and armor, since the characters wouldn't have them yet. That
> limits the possibilities somewhat but I have a few possible adventures up
> my sleeve.
> 
> However, what I was looking for was a more general set of guidelines
> on how all the referees out there handle merc units, or PCs attempting to
> become them.
> 


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:37:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Request to Craig

Quoth Douglas E. Berry:
> The orbit of the Moon around the Earth produces a noticable bulge in the
> crust.. This speeds up the Earth's rotation by a microscopic amount.

I suspect the inestimable Doug has merely typo'd above: the tides, through
friction between the oceans and ocean bottoms and between the crust and
the mantle, cause the Earth's rotation to _slow_down_.  The effect is
miniscule, except over geologic time.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:18:18 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Chris Griffen wrote:
> 

> 
> I don't know that it would be required to be a member of a mercenary guild,
> but that's certainly as good a solution as any. (In my campaign, the
> mercenary guild is actually an extortion outfit that preys on fledgling
> merc units.)
> 
I like this idea.

Leader: Why must I pay this outrageous yearly fee? What does it get me?
Guild:  Why, protection, of course.
Leader: From what? We're a merc outfit, for Strephon's sake. We don't
        need no stinking protection!
Guild:  Protection from unfortunate accidents with other merc outfits.
	Where exactly was your ship berthed again? (makes a note to
	call the demolitions specialist)

> What they *would* require are permits to use and ship weaponry wherever
> they were to take a ticket. Mercenary weaponry in Traveller tends to be a
> bit more than your average hunting rifle, so I would imagine that there
> would be a cost associated with approving both the types of weaponry they
> intend to carry and the process by which the mercenaries ensure that their
> weaponry is properly stowed away. In addition, they would be required to
> sign affidavits that ensure they will not sell or give away this weaponry
> to any parties that come calling.
> 

Excellent ideas. I figure that roughly 5% of the cost of the weaponry
would be a reasonable amount to pay for bringing weaponry through
customs. What do you think? This provides the PCs with incentive to
get merc tickets quickly because those fees will bankrupt them after
a while.

> Agencies like Hortalez aren't going to bond just anyone. If they bond some
> mercenary unit that goes out and massacres a bunch of civilians on some
> backwater world, the bonding authority is probably going to be held partly
> liable for insuring such unscrupulous mercs. Mercenaries that flout the
> laws of the Imperium (or the Regency in my case) are not likely to get
> bonded in the future and may find themselves either imprisoned somewhere

Yep, another great idea. I'll use this one too.

> I've also written a draft of the "Regency Rules
> of War" that gives them a fairly stringent guideline on what weapons they
> can use and where.
> 

I don't suppose you'd consider making "Regency Rules of War" available?
Nudge nudge wink wink say no more!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:59:04 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

At 10:09 AM 9/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>The nuclear warhead table does not show an TL advancements ie a TL 9 and TL
>>15 10kt warhead are the same size. Also the nuclear warhead tables not show
>>the pen/damage ratings for the radii.
>
>Well, it can be argued that the amount of energy yield from nuclear fission
>is not something one can improve on.  Perhaps there is a fusion warhead
>table (I do not yet have FFS2)?

Hmm does that mean that we still have to use devices like the ones the US
dropped upon Japan you know "Littel Boy" and "Fatman" to get the kiloton
range that they were at. The nuclear was table was taken for Striker 1, but
the TL progression was not included.

>>Also give up any hope of designing a one man X-Boat without using gross
>>amounts of "hand waving" the system as is, will not allow it.
>>
>>But I would like to find out if it can be done, so here is the criteria, a
>>snow cone shaped hull, jump six jump drives, two staterooms, minimal
>>kitchen area, minimal sensors, large TL 15 computers and databanks, and
>>life support for two for two weeks. Design all components at TL 15. Also
>>show you math work please.
>
>Ahem, the 'canon' xboat was jump-4, not jump-6.  Saves a lot of fuel space,
>as well as drive space.

Wrong answer!, the TL-15 Xboat was jump-6, it is from several "canon"
sources. 
If you would like I can start quoting the sources.

>>snip<<
>>Under Table 163: Advanced Thrusters there is no minimum size just a minimum
>>thrust.
>
>Doesn't this translate into a minimum size?

It means I could put it into 2t vessel.

>Sam, You are coming off a bit hardnosed here (in other messages more thna
>this one).  Its only a game, can you tone down the volume a bit?
>
Pete

You really don't know me this is rather pleasant for me, you see some of my
other posts.<G>
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:37:58 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: Replys [sic]

> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

> > Welcome back, Loren!  Whatcha been up to?
> 
> Mainly, I've been trying to earn a living. My continual inability to win $20
> Million in the Illinois lottery is a source of frustration to me. Perhaps if I bought
> a ticket?

Loren, inasmuch as your chances of winning are essentially the same
whether you buy a ticket or not, you might as well just accept that
frustration and grow from it.  --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:22:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Victor J. Raymond" <RAYMOND@macalester.edu>
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

 
I _hate_ to correct a Finn about Finnish military equipment, but the Lahti 9mm
pistol (also manufactured by Husquarvna in Sweden), was _not_ a "very fine 
version of the classic Parabellum" -- _if_ what Matti is referring to is what
we call here in the US a Luger.  There is a modest similarity in outward
appearance, but the two have very different actions.
 
Having fired both, taken them apart, and had each explained to me by my friend,
Col. Castonguay (who is also a gunsmith), it's a minor detail.
 
The Lahti 20mm anti-tank rifle was heavy and long, and had a semi-automatic
action (I _believe_).  Having only fired a Boys Mk. I .55 caliber anti-tank
rifle myself, I have a hard time imagining what the Lahti would be like, as it
was explained to me as being bigger and heavier than the Boys'.
 
Victor Raymond

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:32:15 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Scott Ellsworth wrote:
> 
> They are listed in the "dangerous persons" directory, available to
> virtually all worlds.  Every time they land, the world in question will get
> notice that they have just let a group of known killers for hire land.  Now
> in many cases, this is good.  It can lead to lucrative contracts, and
> interesting people, but they are now on the map.  If they are trying to
> smuggle something forget it!

I just love this idea. They'd be required to register with the local
authorities, file all sorts of paperwork, pay all sorts of fees and
get bogged down in administration. It cripples their ability to smuggle
and to be inconspicuous, both of which are important to these 
particular players.

These seem like small prices to pay for carrying kick-butt weaponry.

> Note also that in my world, a merc band is responsible for site security,
> so it someone breaks into their ship and steals weapons not allowed at the
> current TL, the players are responsible for what is done with the weapons.

Interesting. I see an adventure or two here ...

> This is quite fair - they have the right to carry tools of their profession
> that worlds would like to regulate, and Imperial law makes it possible for
> them to circumvent some local policies.  In return, they bear a greater
> level of responsibility and risk.
> 

Nicely put.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:09:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1796

>>If America was involved in WW3 with limited 
>>nuclear exchange, the U.S.ed be in a heap of trouble.  That's the way it 
>>goes.

>you mean like all the trouble we had in the gulf ? 

That's right.  Damn.  I forget about the limited nuclear exchange in the
Gulf.  Silly me.  Yeah, I forgot that Baghdad was engulfed in a nuclear
fireball.

>1. warsaw pact equipment was and is far inferior [ TL 6 ] versus our
>hardware [TL8]

Well, yes and no.  This is real life, not a game.  The soviets had lower
tech, yes, this is true.  However, what the soviets did with that lower tech
is amazing (if you want to see what I mean, read up on soviet computer
programmers and it'll be clear).  However, we are pretty low tech as well,
where it counts.  Did you know that the NORAD complex (y'know, the one from
"Wargames"?) hasn't had a full and satisfactory major upgrade since the 60s
(I cite last months Scientific American)?  That's late TL6 early TL7.  And
that's our early nuclear warning today.

Then again, take a look at Vietnam to see what guerilla warfare can do with
TL0/Tl1 sticks, traps, snares, tunnels, etc.

>    dureing the '80's the media had built up the soviets as a major
>threat when infact the basic soviet troop is not trained to read a map
>and the average soviet rifle company possess' one radio . [ I was trained
>in soviet doctine and hardware in the army ] . soviet vehicles are made
>of magnesium alloy [ they burn ] 

Yes, and the soviets also had the only MBT that had radiation shielding.
 Different developments on either side, and different ways of utilizing these
developments.  The soviets had a low-tech outlook on things, true.  But, that
attitude also got stuff done (Mir, first man spaced flight, only probe to
Venus, etc. etc.).  Stuff that America, with all its technology, couldn't do.

We in America let our technology make us fat and lazy.  The soviets combined
people and technology and got shit done.

>If the U.S were to mobilize and engage in world domination , sans nukes
>the world would fall in under two years.

Surely you jest?!?!?  Where did you dig up this figure?  Two things wrong
with the above statement...  Number one, never underestimate the power of
guerilla warfare vs. high-technology.  It is still extremely difficult, say,
to catch and kill a sniper with a high powered rifle in a window who fires
only one shot from each position.  Sure, we, (the U.S. that is), could
probably grind over alot of the world.  But in order to dominate, you have to
hold the territory.  Technology helps hold territory, but ultimately you need
people on the ground with guns.

Number Two:  Just because we have the most technologically advanced army in
the world doesn't mean that we have the most powerful.  Sure, we can bomb
everybody back to the stone age, but who cares?  So can Russia, So could
Britain and France...  The gulf war doesn't prove anything (desert terrain,
and WWII tactics versus super-high tech jet bombers and fighters will lose
every time) here.  Put American doughboys on the streets of U.S. occupied
London or Paris (or even Baghdad) and they'll be in trouble.  We don't have
the numbers, nor the heart to take over the world...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:30:33 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

At 02:39 PM 9/10/97 +0000, Erwin wrote:
><snip>
>So, my characters are now a merc outfit and have purchased the weapons.
>Delivery will occur in two game days. 
>
>I'm now faced with a problem. I think I've made it too easy to get
>military stuff. If there is a Merc Guild, there must be annual dues
>and some sort of certification and registration process. Perhaps a
>representative of said Guild audits the group once per year to make
>sure they're performing merc work and are deserving of the membership.
>
>How do you handle it? Have I totally botched it up? Will my universe
>be destined to fall into the hands of every joker who has a gun?
>

Not just the Guild; the Imperial Army, Navy & Marines will also require
registration & audit. The primary difference between a Merc unit and a
Pirate band is the length of time since the last pay day.

Each system under Imperial control into which they travel will probably
require they check in or register with the local Imperial Military command.

Some systems may restrict the activities of Merc units in ways different
than that for normal traders.  Extra inspections by the Customs units;
deatil review of all weapons held under the license and extra attention to
papers for any cargo. They may of shut themselves out of any 'small package
trade' opportunties. Limitations on travel outside of the starport, the more
represive the government, the more nervious they become about Mercs roaming
among the potentially disaffected populace.

Unless they actually intend to limit themselves to Merc adventures, by
getting a Merc Guild membership under effective false pretenses; they have
effectively painted themselves bright red and donned strobe lights to draw
attecntion to themselves.

Garry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:45:38 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)

 At 05:56 AM 9/10/97 GMT, you wrote:
 >On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:47:10 EDT, lugh1@juno.com wrote:
 
 >There was no documented ground war
 >between the US and the USSR in the fictitious background of T2300.

Ai ya! Tell that to the poor grunts of the US 11th Corps that got stuck in
central Poland.

I remember the last words from HQ vividly: "You're on your own. Good luck."

Man, that was a good game. :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:17:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tal Meta <talmeta@cybercomm.net>
Subject: Curious

I've got some old ('84) Classic Traveller items, and I was wondering if
anyone could give me an estimate as to what they were worth (I'm
considering selling them, but whether I do or not depends on whether
they're worth the effort).

What I've got are the following:

Traveller Boxed Set     (251)
Trav Alien 1: Aslan     (254)
Trav Alien 5: Droyne    (259)
Trav Alien Realms       (262)
Trav Aliens 7: Hivers   (263)
Trav Aliens 8: Darrians (264)
Trav Book 8: Robots     (344)

All are in Mint to NM condition; they've been paged thru but that's about
the extent of it.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:24:41 -0400
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@pinn.net>
Subject: Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD) (long)

Its truly interesting to listen to these discusions of how the US could
"conquer the world."  But from my piint of view, nothing could be further
from our true objectives as a nation.  Externally, multinationals and the
USG (US Government) may be viewed with some justifiable suspicion.  We
do not have a clean track record.  But there's a saying in the US Navy and
it goes like this:

	"YOU FIGHT LIKE YOU TRAIN."

If you train poorly, you fight poorly.  You can basically fight what you
train to fight.  etc..

We have not in the past nine years, do not currently, and will not for 
at least another decade train to do anything.  We do not practice invading
any particular nation.  Our entire navy, for example, is trained to fight
a "forward defense," which is distinct from a pure offense.  The aim is and has
been to deter conflicts and events not in the national security interests
of the US and its allies.  This may not have wonderful results all the time
but the intent is not malicious.

We defend our homes and our nation, for whatever we believe it to be worth.
"Against what?" you might ask.

Against Hitler, Stalin, and their ghosts.  Whoever wants to threaten us
next.  Its self interest, not total altruism (as you all know) that 
motivates US foreign and miitary policy.  Yet there's not a single sailor
that i've met in my nine years of service that even thinks about 
"conquering the world."  It's an alien thought and an insulting one.

And we COULD NOT DO IT.  The US can DEFEND itself, but that's IT.  If
anyone was stupid enough to take on say, Europe, they would find themselves
in an immediate bloodbath.  The European militaries are professional and
sharp, and will soon be BETTER (if they aren't already) at the individual
quality and training level.  The military of the Gulf War no longer exists
in the US (but give us a few weeks)...

BTW, Harold made an interesting point about the multinationals.  long
with our lawyers, they are the ones interested in world (cultural) 
domination.  But what's wrong with that.

This might shed some light on the Imperium c.1116.  Fat dumb and happy
immediately after a successful, well-spun, hyped, and popular war abroad
which resulted in resounding military defeats but little resolution of 
the underlying problem.  A stagant and ever-more introspective empire
with strong divisive forces ready to rip it apart into Civil War.

All it takes it one catastrophic event...


Dan Lane
LT   USN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 21:51:25 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Tech Levels

Richard Hough wrote:
> 
> >>TECH LEVEL GROUPS
> >>        TL      Title
> >>        0       Nomadic
> >>        1 - 3   Agrarian
> >>        4 - 6   Industrial
> >>        7 - 9   Planetary
> >>        10 - 12 Stellar
> >>        13 - 15 Nucleonic
> >>        16 - 18 Galactic
> >
> >What's "nucleonic" mean, dude?
> 
> Well, the term is non-canon, but I use it to mean the ability to manipulate
> nuclear forces in the way we can manipulate electronic forces today. I
> figured this would be required to create bonded superdense armor or tunable
> X-ray lasers.
> 
> Unfortunately those things show up a TL 14, not 13 as I have them. Tech
> Level groups were given in multiples of 3, and technical potential doesn't
> break down so easily. For example, I wanted to make an "Atomic" group, but
> that starts at TL 6, which is at the tail end of one group. I guess a
> better idea is to pick the technologies first and the groups second. How
> about this:
> 
> TECH LEVEL GROUPS
>         TL      Age
>         0       Pretechnological
>         1 - 2   Mechanical
>         3 - 5   Industrial
>         6 - 8   Atomic
>         9 - 10  Fusion
>         11 - 13 Gravitic
>         14 - 16 Nucleonic
> 
> I actually like this better because it's descriptive and you can actually
> test when a society has reached a particular group. For example, creating a
> nuclear explosion will put a society into the Atomic Age, thruster plates
> put you in the Gravitic Age.
> 
> >There are, at least on Terra, TL-0 agrarian societies, as well as TL1+
> >nomadic ones.  The lower end of the TL scale has always been a little
> >over-simplified for my taste.
> 
> True. In fact I can imagine a TL 15 nomadic society. I think the idea of
> tech level groups *is* to simplify the TL progression a little, to make it
> more descriptive. My mistake was trying to combine social and technological
> advancement into one table. Just because a society has the technology, for
> example, of interstellar travel doesn't necessarily mean that they'll do it.
> 
> I didn't like the proposed "Hi Tech", "Very High Tech", "Ultra High Tech",
> etc. progression because it seems no more descriptive than a numeric tech
> level. I think my proposed groups describe the differences in tech
> qualitatively more than quantitatively. Also I think describing a planet as
> "late Atomic" sounds cooler than "TL 8". Your opinion may differ.
> 
> --
> Richard Hough
> rdhough@orca.bc.ca

I agree! I like this new scheme better -- more specific and descriptive.
But I would call TL-0 "Pre Tech", more catchy.

Alex Ingram

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:23:19 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Chris Griffen wrote:
> 
> Erwin Fritz wrote:
> 
> >First, some background. I run a modified MT in the year 1107 set in
> >the Spinward Marches.
> 
> Okay, cool. I run a TNE Regency mercenary campaign.
> 
> >At this point in the game it suddenly struck me that if it was that
> >easy, every munchkin character would suddenly have military weapons
> >galore! So I quickly had the Instellarms rep add "I just need to see
> >your Mercenary Guild registration, proving you're a real mercenary
> >outfit."
> 
> Good call. Though I'm having humorous visions of the Bob Dole Visa
> commercial where he comes to the lunchcounter and the cashier says, "Okay,
> can I see some ID?" Bob looks at the camera and says, "I just can't win."
> <g>
> 
> I don't know that it would be required to be a member of a mercenary guild,
> but that's certainly as good a solution as any. (In my campaign, the
> mercenary guild is actually an extortion outfit that preys on fledgling
> merc units.)
> 
> What they *would* require are permits to use and ship weaponry wherever
> they were to take a ticket. Mercenary weaponry in Traveller tends to be a
> bit more than your average hunting rifle, so I would imagine that there
> would be a cost associated with approving both the types of weaponry they
> intend to carry and the process by which the mercenaries ensure that their
> weaponry is properly stowed away. In addition, they would be required to
> sign affidavits that ensure they will not sell or give away this weaponry
> to any parties that come calling.
> 
> The other element that might come into play is a Repatriation Bonding
> Authority. Megacorporation Hortalez et cie is said to be a "mercenary
> clearing house," specializing in selling repatriation bonds to mercenary
> units so that they have a means of getting off whatever rock they're stuck
> on if they get shafted by their patron.
> 
> Agencies like Hortalez aren't going to bond just anyone. If they bond some
> mercenary unit that goes out and massacres a bunch of civilians on some
> backwater world, the bonding authority is probably going to be held partly
> liable for insuring such unscrupulous mercs. Mercenaries that flout the
> laws of the Imperium (or the Regency in my case) are not likely to get
> bonded in the future and may find themselves either imprisoned somewhere
> the next time they're end up on the "losing side," or they'll find that
> their reputation is tarnished and companies like Instellarms won't even
> deal with them in the future.
> 
> >That took the characters aback. They agreed to get back to him and
> >promptly spent the next few days (in the game, not in real life)
> >registering themselves as a merc outfit. That cost them Cr100,000.
> >Glisten being the biggest bribery-motivated world around, they had to
> >shell out a few thousand more to get the application processed quickly.
> 
> Sounds like a fair price.
> 
> >I'm now faced with a problem. I think I've made it too easy to get
> >military stuff. If there is a Merc Guild, there must be annual dues
> >and some sort of certification and registration process. Perhaps a
> >representative of said Guild audits the group once per year to make
> >sure they're performing merc work and are deserving of the membership.
> >
> >How do you handle it? Have I totally botched it up? Will my universe
> >be destined to fall into the hands of every joker who has a gun?
> 
> I make the Bonding Authority charge them a percentage of their ticket price
> every time they take a job. I've also written a draft of the "Regency Rules
> of War" that gives them a fairly stringent guideline on what weapons they
> can use and where.
> 
> I don't think you're risking your universe, but you may want to be careful
> about the power level of the weapons they're carrying. The more powerful
> the guns, the more powerful the guns their enemies will carry. You can end
> up in an arms race that results in mutually assured destruction! Establish
> that the cutting-edge weaponry is reserved for the military alone except in
> rare instances. Also, if they clamor for more powerful weaponry and armor,
> subtly remind them that the guy in the suit of battledress, carrying the
> FGMP-15 is the *first* one to get shot at by the vehicle-mounted plasma
> gun. ;-)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris Griffen
> 
> ===================================================
> Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.
> 
> http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
> Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
> NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

I would like to see your Regency Rules of War. I also have several pages
of notes governing the Mercenary Guild, the Bonding Authority and the
Merc Code of Conduct. I'll be willing to provide such in the next few
days. We're on the same track here.

Alex Ingram

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1804
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 11 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1805



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Imperium World Makeup (was USA world domination)
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re:chip
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Nuclear Weapons (OT) (Was Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300AD)
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re:Harold
Re:dan lane
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1804
Re:dan lane
Re:dan lane
The usual

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:29:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

In mail you write:

> In my last Traveller session, my characters attempted to buy some
> exlusively military weaponry, like ACR's, grenades and the like.
> They're currently in Glisten/Glisten, where the law level doesn't 
> permit that sort of thing. 

It doesn't permit carrying them around locally. That's quite different.

> However, Glisten is the economic center of the subsector (and its
> neighbor, District 268) and just about anything you can imagine (up
> to TL15) can be purchased there. The military weapons my players wanted
> were certainly in the system somewhere.
>
> They searched and eventually found a local branch of Instellarms, the
> mercenary outfitting store. A representative of that store told them
> that he could have the weapons delivered to their starship, thus
> circumventing the law level problem. 
>
> At this point in the game it suddenly struck me that if it was that
> easy, every munchkin character would suddenly have military weapons
> galore! So I quickly had the Instellarms rep add "I just need to see
> your Mercenary Guild registration, proving you're a real mercenary
> outfit."

Hey, I could place an order for military grade weapons as long as I had
a dealer's license and the right export permits. And that's right here
in the US.

> That took the characters aback. They agreed to get back to him and
> promptly spent the next few days (in the game, not in real life)
> registering themselves as a merc outfit. That cost them Cr100,000.
> Glisten being the biggest bribery-motivated world around, they had to
> shell out a few thousand more to get the application processed quickly.
>
> So, my characters are now a merc outfit and have purchased the weapons.
> Delivery will occur in two game days. 
>
> I'm now faced with a problem. I think I've made it too easy to get
> military stuff. If there is a Merc Guild, there must be annual dues
> and some sort of certification and registration process. Perhaps a
> representative of said Guild audits the group once per year to make
> sure they're performing merc work and are deserving of the membership.

> How do you handle it? Have I totally botched it up? Will my universe
> be destined to fall into the hands of every joker who has a gun?

Just remember, with the right fees and permits, I could own a fully
operational *tank*. But using it for anything but rental to movie
companies, and maybe driving it out to the old miltary bomb range in
Boardman to "plink" at things with the guns would get me in big
trouble. Likewise, the paperwork for driving it out to the range would
be pretty impressive.

Having the weapons on your ship is "easy". Using them on all but the
lowest law level worlds will get your ass in a sling in a hurry. Also,
if *they* can get them, so can "the bad guys". :-)

Mercs own the heavy hardware because the folks they are fighting own the
same stuff! 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:16:50 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Imperium World Makeup (was USA world domination)

At 01:47 PM 10/09/97 +0100, you wrote:
>

>Lots I would emagine, as the capital of the rule of man was moved to
>Sylean was it not ? This wold leave a lot of Solomani aristocracies
>(military goveners) on the world when everyone stoped trading with each
>other, during dusk (pre long night). The worlds around would also have a
>lot of them about as being near the seat of power is where you want to be
>if you want to get ahead in the ruling classes ....

That's what I was thinking as well, and there would probably be enough that
Vilani bloodlines might be severly diluted. The maintaining of a pure
solomani bloodline over 1000 years requires some speculation, but I suppose
it is possible, provided that there were enough Solomani administrators
imported during the breif time that Sylea was capital of the RoM. I imagine
that geneology is *very* important to some of the nobles of the Third
Imperium. 

I don't imagine for one minut that there aren't any Vilani or part solomani
nobles, I just wonder if they would be accorded any less status. The idea
that I am toying with in my campaing is that there is indeed a great deal
of prejudice against Vilani nobles, and that is the big sticking point that
the Vilani Confederation has agianst fully committing itself to the Third
Imperium. (In my campaing in year 10 they haven't yet joined, simply
because they are very worried about cultural domination)

But evem in a canon Imperium, I imagine that on many imperial worlds there
are Vilani "ghettos", where cultural as well as racial Vilani still proudly
live, for a long time.

Another question for anyone who's still reading... I seem to remember a
"solomani movement" among Imperial nobles until some emporer or other
married some vilani noble. 
Does anyone know (or for that matter think!) whether this Solomani movement
was present since day one. 

Personally I feel that this would go a long way toward explaining Solomani
attitudes, if you feel that you have the right to rule a lot of people who
are more than likely hostile, but accept your reasons for being in power,
then any threat to that power would seem to have dire consequences to you.  
hmmm... I think I've rambled out loud enough now. 


Harry

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:01:45 -0700
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

> Date:          Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:59:04 -0500
> From:          Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
> 
> Wrong answer!, the TL-15 Xboat was jump-6, it is from several "canon"
> sources. 
> If you would like I can start quoting the sources.

That may be true, but they were not the xboats that were in use.  I 
have a vague recollection a jump-6 system being studied but rejected 
- - most likely so the Imperium could keep a government/military jump-6
network with a significant lead-time over the public network.


- --
Edward Swatschek  *  edjs@bitslayer.net
                     edjs@mindlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:02:19 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

Glenn Hoppe wrote

> Richard Hough wrote:

> >Marc Miller wrote

> > >       Comm: Commercial and private ships using standard drives.

How about if Commercial and private ships means ships whose highly paid
crews work only a limited number of hours per day.

> > >       Mil. Military ships in service.

Conversly military ships might mean ships whose crews can be worked many
more hours per day and whose per hour per person cost is therefore
lower. It might also mean ships that are rigourously maintained,
Therefore evn if the crews of military ships are no more skilled than
those of commercial ships and their ships are no newer they may be get
higher performance.

> > >       T&T. Trained and tuned. Military ships with highly trained crews and
> > >carefully tuned drives.

As above with better crews and drives.

> > >       Perfect. If the rolls produce a perfect jump +/- 0, reroll on the
> > >Perfect
> > >column.
> >
> > These need to be defined. How does the jump drive know it's on a "military"
> > ship?

Yes they need to be defined.  Maybe commercial means "a ship whose crew
pushes the right buttons and does whatever maintenance the manual says
they should.  "Maybe military means "a drive whose crew fiddles with it
a fair ammount." Maybe trained and tuned means "a ship whose well
trained crew is constantly fiddling with it."

> > Is the drive physically different?

If it is different it should have different specs and that will
needlessly complicate ship design so I suggest that the difference is
merely in the ammount of time the crew fiddles with it.  In this case a
"commercial" ship should be able to get "military" results if they are
willing to pay for them (maybe a 50% increase in personel costs to
reflect paying a civilian crew to work a 60 hour week while the military
figure assumes a crew working 60 hour weeks).

> > What exactly does a ship need to
> > be "trained and tuned"?  Is there any way for players or commercial ships
> > to do this? There are cases when shaving even a few hours off your travel
> > time would be advantageous; maintaining a "trained and tuned" ship should
> > be expensive or everyone would be doing it. My suggestion is to drop
> > special "military" drives and just say military ships are all T&T.

I agree, but it is not totally implausible.
> 
> Agreed. What makes the "military" drives so much better? And why
> wouldn't commercial ventures use them? It seems to me that interstellar
> commerce is the glue of the Imperium, and any technology which made
> interstellar commerce safer, quicker, and more viable would be
> disseminated very quickly.
> 
> Also, we have a few different systems for designing starships, and none
> have a "military" designation for their jumpdrives. How are we supposed
> to design military vessels? If the jumpdrives are the same cost and size
> why can't commercial vessels use them? Don't give me a lame "top secret"
> explanation. After thousands of years of jump drive use, I'm sure there
> are no more secrets.
> 
> I don't have a problem with the "trained and tuned" designation.

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:33:27 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:chip

>
>>>nuclear exchange, the U.S.ed be in a heap of trouble.  That's the 
>>>way it goes. you mean like all the trouble we had in the gulf ? 

>If you can't tell the difference between Desert Storm and a nuclear 
>exchange, then your head is so far up your ass further conversation is 
>meaningless.
>
>John M. Atkinson

the actual startin post was " if the U.S. was involved in a war WITH OUT 
nukes the U.S.ed be in a heap of trouble ." 

I responded as above .

and you think I am out of touch ? at least I read the entire post before
insulting some one about a view point I know nothing about . also john ,
I was in the gulf and I think I know the difference from a nuclear
exchange . anyway feel free to make an ass out of yourself again I don't
mind .

chip

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:33:26 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

LOL , I can see alot of your points fellas don't get me wrong , but I
still really dislike the U.S. being deligated to a secondary role . this
is not the future I invisioned and it was a real sticking point for me
when I used to run the game . If the U.S. was so horrible in 2000 then
explain the fact that the U.S. still had a space proram in 2001 ! I
believe the adventure was fallen star in which the party was to recover a
satallite for relaunch .

in 2000 the U.S. still has trans atlantic shipping and many major citys .
also to disagree with the fella who said the U.S. and russia did not
tangle in T2000  , this is wrong read the background the U.S. and russia
fought major engagements dureing the lenth of the war . ..

I am pro U.S. and I am pround of this nation I would not have minded if
the U.S. and other nations had shared leadership rules [ as it is now
with the nato alliance ] but the U.S. being secondary to any other power
? kind of hard to believe . 


chip
preferes terrans to vilani  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:55:47 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Nuclear Weapons (OT) (Was Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300AD)

Harold Hale wrote

[snip]

>    Nukes are the great equalizer, which is why the NATO strategy for so
> many years depended upon them.  It made any conventional invasion of the
> West a non-starter (no one wants to be king of a glass parking lot).
> It's also why the Israelis have nukes, why Pakistan wants nukes, and why
> South Africa wanted nukes but later gave up (power changed hands
> peaceably).

My understanding was that South Africa had _had_ nukes.  I seem to
recall PT Botha saying as much.  I suspect that conventional estimates
of the number of countries with nuclear arms are somewhat understated. 
I would not be shocked to learn that there are 10 or more countries not
publically known to have nukes who do.  These countries would gain no
public benefit from admitting this as the leaders of the countries they
wish to deter presumably arleady know they have nukes.

For example if I were Canadian I would hope that my country had nuclear
weapons, as I cannot think of anything but my own nukes, or the threat
of British nukes, that would prevent the USA from conquering my country
easily. (Or at least the southern part with all the people and cities,
the mostly empty northern part might take a bit longer.) Oh sure the USA
says they are allied with Canada but nation states aren't what you would
call big on trust.  The USA has tried to invade Canada as recently as
1812 and might do so again.

As Tom Lehrer said:

"Who's Next"

One of the big news items of the past year concerned the fact that China,
which we call 'Red China', exploded a nuclear bomb, which we called a
'device'.  Then Indonesia announced that it was gonna have one soon,
and proliferation became the word of the day.  Here's a song about that.

First we got the bomb and that was good,
'Cause we love peace and motherhood.
Then Russia got the bomb, but that's o.k.,
'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way!
Who's next?

France got the bomb, but don't you grieve,
'Cause they're on our side, I believe.
China got the bomb, but have no fears;
They can't wipe us out for at least five years!
Who's next?

Then Indonesia claimed that they
Were gonna get one any day.
South Africa wants two, that's right:
One for the black and one for the white!
Who's next?

Egypt's gonna get one, too,
Just to use on you know who.
So Israel's getting tense,
Wants one in self defense.
"The Lord's our shepherd," says the psalm,
But just in case, we better get a bomb!
Who's next?

Luxembourg is next to go
And, who knows, maybe Monaco.
We'll try to stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the bomb!
Who's next, who's next, who's next?
Who's next?

Who's Next is (c) 1965 by Tom Lehrer

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:11:45 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Erwin Fritz wrote

[snip]

> > Battle Dress requires the services of a maintenance technician with armorer
> > skill and some specialized and expensive equiptment.  Without this service,
> > hardware and software errors multiply.  This applies even more to vehicles.
> > Remember that TL8 combat helicopters require (AFAIR) *three times* the
> > number of hours of maintenance as they spend flying.
> >
> 
> I like this idea. They don't have battle dress but they do have combat
> armor. I'll assume that Vacc Suit or Battle Dress skill is required to
> maintain combat armor. Maybe I'll use something like this:
> 
>         To don combat armor:
>         Simple, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Dexterity, 2 min (fateful).

This time increment seems a bit long.  DGP's MTJ #1 9pg 47 Dressed To
KIll by Tom Peters) says of BattleDress that it can be donned by the
average (skilled) trooper in about 10 minutes (a 1 minute time interval)
- - this time can be cut in half by use of an assistant or having the suit
in a mounting frame.  It seems to me that unpowered Combat Armor should
be no harder, and possibly easier than, Battle Dress to put on.  How
about a 30 second time interval.  On the other hand Battle Dress may
have power assisted closing features that Combat Armor would not so
maybe a 2 minute interval is correct.

>         Referee: An automatic mishap occurs when this roll fails.
>         Increase the difficulty one level if no skill present or if
>         proper maintenance not done.
> 
> Maintenance could be done according to the following task:
> 
>         To perform routine maintenance on combat armor:
>         Difficult, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Education, 10 min (safe).
> 
> Thoughts?

I think that "routine" maintenance of combat armor should be Average not
Difficult (whats so hard about it ? ).  On the other hand it could be +2
Diff Mod for lack of proper tools or +1 Diff Mod if you have a Machine
shop on ship but do not have the exactly correct tools as made by the
maker of the Combat Armor (they could of course buy these tools for Cr
100,000 or so - if they can find them & get permission).

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:04:07 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:Harold

Harold
	Bravo , I agree with your post and because of your intellegent
and civil nature I will accept and bow to your obvious wisdom .
and now to the list ..
 2300Ad was a game I bought when I was a lowly 11M grunt in the U.S.Army
and it was a game I had hoped would be the answer to my gameing needs ,
disappointment can often breed resentment . I would have changed the
background but it was to ingrained into the book and would have called
for a rewrite [ if I wanted to write a game I wouldn't buy them . ] The
members of my gameing group lost interest and the game was filed away [ I
still have it ].
	understand one thing , when I was trying to run this game all of
the players and myself were 11M infantry men in the U.S. army and perhaps
because of the mindset we had we could not enjoy a game where ..
A. mexico conquered most of cali. and texas . and we never took it back !
B. the american arm was a bust while every other arm was full speed ahead

C. American equipment , personel and space program considered third rate.
as a matter of fact america is depected as a tired ol'has been and pitied
by the rest of the world as exemplified by the quote in the book " Japan
looks to america as a fallen giant . " why did every nation in the world
recover better than the U.S. ?? 

call me Biased call me a liberal [ if from aussi ] a nationalist or a
rabid conservitive [ I hate rush . ] I have been all at one time or
another [ right now i am free market socialist]

just voiceing my oppinion on 2300AD

jim 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:04:08 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:dan lane

>And we COULD NOT DO IT.  The US can DEFEND itself, but that's IT.

We certainly defended ourselve well enough in panama , grenada , Iraq .
excuse the sarcasm but you can't actually believe this . I was in a RDF [
thats rapid deployment force for you squabbys out there ] and our
Training taught us to isolate reduce and destroy all resistance ,
presumably soviet [ paper tiger any one ? ] but tactically anyone 

> If anyone was stupid enough to take on say, Europe, they would find
>themselves in an immediate bloodbath. 

I am sure you are right I mean look at the blood bath the germans walked
into when they rolled over western europe , I am sure we would do even
worse . [ sarcasm ]

> The European militaries are professional  and sharp,
> and will soon be BETTER (if they aren't already) at the
>individual quality and training level.

you obviously have never been on field exercise with the german army .
they sit around in the field drinking beer and eating snitzel [ I wish I
had had some ] . ermany would be our toughest fight in the west and
history shows they are only good at beating the french .
	also If you want to make a broad statement about troop quality
than speak for your branch not mine , my training [ brain washing :) ]
was that we are the best military bar none and that is why we [ the
american military ] are always the ones called in to deal with third
world dictators and desert scum . 

> The military of the Gulf War no longer
>exists in the US (but give us a few weeks)...

did we all go some where ??? 

>Dan Lane
>LT   USN

I weep for the navy and the nation when pissimistic self defeating
persons are placed in command of soldiers [ I am sorry I meant sailors ] 

>------------------------------
jim chip mckee

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:27:47 +0000
From: "Martin F C Pickett" <ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv

> I'm now faced with a problem. I think I've made it too easy to get
> military stuff. If there is a Merc Guild, there must be annual dues
> and some sort of certification and registration process. Perhaps a
> representative of said Guild audits the group once per year to make
> sure they're performing merc work and are deserving of
> themembership. How do you handle it? Have I totally botched it up?
> Will my universe be destined to fall into the hands of every joker
> who has a gun? 

IMTU mercenary units are licensed and regulated by the Imperial 
authorities.  Part of the license gives the Imperium (in the person 
of an authorised representative) the power to 'commandeer' mercenary 
units in the case of emergency, even to the point of pulling them out 
of existing contracts.  This was used as part of the grand finale of 
our campaign, featuring the PC's as the only reachable imperial 
presence in a city surrounded by battling mercenary companies and 
under invasion from orbit.

The imperial licensing scheme meant that the PC's had good info about 
all of the merc companies around them (unit size, equipment, history 
etc), and knew which ones would respect that particular clause when 
confronted by a single imperial representative.

The other thorn in the collective sides of the merc companies is the 
presence of roving reporters from the "Mercenary! News Network - the 
Professionals' choice".  Mercenary! keeps tabs on all imperial 
licensed merc companies, to the extent of requesting customer 
satisfaction reports from employers where possible, and on a roughly 
annual basis publishes the Mercenary! company league table.  This 
table ranks all licensed companies according to criteria such as 
training, equipment levels, discipline, adherence to the prevailing 
rules of conflict etc.  As a separate rating not counted for ranking 
purposes an overall customer satisfaction rating is given for each 
company, where available.  

The idea behind the league table is to give prospective employers a
general feel for the 'professionality' (professionalness?) of the
various companies, along with an idea of how well they perform from
a subjective employers viewpoint.  The separation of the two rating 
means that you can find at a glance merc companies that are really 
the scum of the galaxy, but are very proficient at what they do - 
surely a staple of SF!

Martin

Martin Pickett 
ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are alive, well and living on Sylea 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:23:26 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1804

On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:38:24 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:45:38 -0500
>From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
>Subject: Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)
>
> At 05:56 AM 9/10/97 GMT, you wrote:
> >On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:47:10 EDT, lugh1@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >There was no documented ground war
> >between the US and the USSR in the fictitious background of T2300.
>
>Ai ya! Tell that to the poor grunts of the US 11th Corps that got stuck in
>central Poland.
>
>I remember the last words from HQ vividly: "You're on your own. Good luck."
>
>Man, that was a good game. :)

And it was a damn shame that Andropov had the poor taste to die, let Gorbachev
come to power, and ruin a perfectly good game background -- the 2nd ediition
"history" was just too far fetched, and that's why, I suspect, it has never been
(and probably never will be) resurrected.

Phil

- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:06:52 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re:dan lane

At 05:04 AM 9/11/97 EDT, you wrote:

>>And we COULD NOT DO IT.  The US can DEFEND itself, but that's IT.

>We certainly defended ourselve well enough in panama , grenada , Iraq .
>excuse the sarcasm but you can't actually believe this . I was in a RDF [
>thats rapid deployment force for you squabbys out there ] and our
>Training taught us to isolate reduce and destroy all resistance ,
>presumably soviet [ paper tiger any one ? ] but tactically anyone 

>> If anyone was stupid enough to take on say, Europe, they would find
>>themselves in an immediate bloodbath.

>I am sure you are right I mean look at the blood bath the germans walked
>into when they rolled over western europe , I am sure we would do even
>worse . [ sarcasm ]

>> The European militaries are professional  and sharp,
>> and will soon be BETTER (if they aren't already) at the
>>individual quality and training level.

>you obviously have never been on field exercise with the german army .
>they sit around in the field drinking beer and eating snitzel [ I wish I
>had had some ] . ermany would be our toughest fight in the west and
>history shows they are only good at beating the french .
>	also If you want to make a broad statement about troop quality
>than speak for your branch not mine , my training [ brain washing :) ]
>was that we are the best military bar none and that is why we [ the
>american military ] are always the ones called in to deal with third
>world dictators and desert scum . 

>> The military of the Gulf War no longer
>>exists in the US (but give us a few weeks)...

>did we all go some where ??? 

>>Dan Lane
>>LT   USN

Like many others outside of the continental US I grew up regarding the term
"American Culture" as an oxymoron. Now through exposure to numerous US
citizens (mostly naval personnel at Deep Freeze) I have learnt the error of
that line of thinking and that originating in the US does not automatically
make one a kneejerk redneck. However it would also appear from the above (and
other similar comments) that it also does not preclude the possibility.

(To the many US citizen who do not share such views, I apologise, but this
level of mindless jingoism is most distasteful and more than a little
insulting, especially since the a large portion of the allied blood spilt
in the Gulf was not US blood, just who was it who spent their time on
bombing the Iraqi runways again? and what was that Armoured unit attached
to the Marines?).

I might also enquire if you have considered that the US are firing Belgium
bullets (5.56mm SS109) from a Belgium SAW (Minimi). The US uses an Italian
handgun (Baretta M92F) firing a German round (9mm parabellum). The M1 uses
a German main gun (Rheinmetal 120mm) and British armour (Cobham), the Marines
fly a British strike aircraft (Harrier), the Coast Guard uses French
helicopters (Gazzele and Douphan), and I will only mention a few of the debts
to the RN of the USN carrier fleet (steam catapults, angled flight deck,
mirror landing system, arrester wires etc.). The list is really quite
extensive.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:15:19 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re:dan lane

- -> > The European militaries are professional  and sharp,
- -> > and will soon be BETTER (if they aren't already) at the
- -> >individual quality and training level.
- -> 
- -> you obviously have never been on field exercise with the german army .
- -> they sit around in the field drinking beer and eating snitzel [ I wish I
- -> had had some ] . ermany would be our toughest fight in the west and
- -> history shows they are only good at beating the french .
A yes, the Bundeswehr, the Army that makes nobody afraid. In fact the 
russians didn't believe that the majority of the Bundeswehr went home 
on weekends, they thought, we'd be hiding somewhere to await their 
attack. The best time to take us on would be at about 13.00 hours on 
friday! Everybody would be on their way home, oblivious to the 
danger! ;-)


- ->     also If you want to make a broad statement about troop quality
- -> than speak for your branch not mine , my training [ brain washing :) ]
- -> was that we are the best military bar none and that is why we [ the
- -> american military ] are always the ones called in to deal with third
- -> world dictators and desert scum . 
Not entirely true. You are called because your leader(s) can decide 
on taking action. We would be fully capable of doing the same job, 
could our politicians decide on a course of action. Sad, but true!     

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:22:36 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: The usual

Instead of keeping the flame, shouldn't we be setting fire to things?

I mean, is Traveller really going to die? Is Imperium going to fold? Are we
going to let it?

At present I think not.

I went through a phase (about 8 years long) where I never bought a game
product. "If I wanted to play it; I'd write it!" and that's exactly what I
did. Yet over the past couple of years I've found back copies of MT stuff
and bought them. I bought almost everything for TNE, ran it and liked it.
Now I'm buying T4 as it comes out, even though I'm pretty sure that there
will be a better 2nd edition out sometime. Two of the 5 players I game with
are doing the same. That's 50% of our group, buying 70%+ of the material
EACH. If this is repeated elsewhere, then can you really see IG going
under? I can't.

Now, what IG needs is some support. Like the 101 books, but also other
stuff - as much product as possible to coming out to maintain interest. BUT
the product needs to be good; accurately proofread etc. I'm willing to put
my money where my mouth is here and write that material, proof it;
whatever. Licensed products might be an excellent idea. They have the
advantage of not taking up IG time and being more product top grab
attention. But what do people think?

On an unrelated subject: does weaponry dictate doctrine or the other way
around? Or is it a bit of both? I think the latter. The Soviets, with their
'TL6' gear, had a defensive doctrine based upon the elimination of threats.
Look at their tanks: hard work to operate, but well protected, reliable
(mostly) and difficult to hit. They were designed for a massed assault,
with helicopters acting as 'flying tanks' in support. Compare to NATO and
US vehicles. Far more comfortable and thus less tiring to operate (rumors
that the M1 has a swimming pool in the back are false. It's a tennis
court.), the tanks of the West are designed to give greater value 'per
tank' but are poorer value for money - though how do you rate that? With
their higher turrets etc, Western vehicles are excellent on the defensive,
but make good targets in the massed advance - they're still rather good,
though. 

These weapons reflect doctrine. They could have been designed differently,
but they suit the needs of the nation doing the designing. Soviet gear was
excellent for its purpose, especially when one considers that it had to be
operated and maintained by poorly trained conscripts for the most part,
with many cultures and languages present in the army. The best tank in the
world is no use if your troops have broken it.
	
The Gulf War comparison is thus a little unfair, as are all comparisons of
this type. Warfare, by its definition, is unfair. If it's fair, someone is
doing something badly wrong! The Gulf saw just about the entire world gang
up on Iraq. Numbers were, just for once, on the side of the technologically
advanced side. After the initial paranoia, it became clear that my cat
could have won the Gulf War with those weapons. What the Gulf War proved
was that the Coalition could beat Iraq. And that Tomahawk really is as
deadly as we thought! But far-reaching conclusions like 'soviet gear was
crap' should rank with 'the bomber always gets though - any war can be won
by air power alone. The army and navy are obsolete' etc.

Imagine that the Coalition had been armed with Soviet gear, and Iraq with
western arms. What then? The strategy used historically would almost
certainly have failed, because it relied upon technological advantages. But
a massed assault, with overwhelming firepower, along a broad and deep axis
of advance... i.e. a Soviet approach? It might have worked.

Yes, Soviet weapons were inferior, unit for unit. But it never works out like that. 
It comes down to what you've got, and how you use it.
The Eagle is an incredible aircraft. But bomb its airfield and it can't take off.
The Abrams is a great tank. Cut off its ammunition or fuel supplies and it's a big target.
Supercarrier groups are a tremendous way of projecting power in the
non-nuclear world. A ballistic missile would take the lot out and MIGHT not
lead to escalation.


I bet anyone, any money, that I could defend the rest of the world against
the USA, indefinitely. maybe even my cat could. I'm not demeaning the USA -
they have the best kit in the world, and I'm bloody glad we're on the same
side. But they couldn't take over the world by military means. Not in two
or a thousand years. They couldn't keep it if they did. 

There are other ways; economic and cultural conquest, for example. 
Those might work. But not military.

One other thing. Look at Mogadishu, for example. The USA isn't very good at
taking casualties. All that technology and firepower has led to a situation
where the taking of casualties shakes morale. It's unacceptable to a public
used to easy victory. That public could perhaps be manipulated into backing
a war effort. But they'd never stand for the losses, even without the
missiles.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1805
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 11 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1806



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Technobabble and Traveller GT, coming soon Traveller LS.
Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex
Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789)
Allegence
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1804
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv
Re: Replys [sic]
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Milieu 0 Hardback Campaign
While we're at it...
Re: Monetary Economics
Ship Economics
Re: FF&S2 laser small arms question
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 06:59:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

You wrote: 

>The Lahti 20mm anti-tank rifle was heavy and long, and had a 
semi-automatic action (I _believe_).  Having only fired a Boys Mk. I 
.55 caliber anti-tank rifle myself, I have a hard time imagining what 
the Lahti would be like, as it was explained to me as being bigger and 
heavier than the Boys'.

Yeah, but it would light up your life if you were the idiot Russkie 
driving a damn BT-5 right up the sights.

And while most were semi-automatic, the damn things started life as an 
aircraft cannon, and a few were made fully automatic.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 06:57:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv

You wrote: 

>However, what I was looking for was a more general set of guidelines
>on how all the referees out there handle merc units, or PCs attempting
>to become them.

Hrm. . . typically, if you've got some sort of central clearing house 
for mercenaries, it's going to largely act as a go-between between 
employers (potential and actual) and mercenaries.  So if they are going 
to register with that, they'll get all sorts of nosey questions about 
what sort of troops they have and what capabilities they have so that 
the guild can hook them up with potential employers.  If the PCs have 
three ACRs and Scout ship, I'd expect them to get laughed out of the 
guildhall.  The guild would also hold the pay of mercenaries until the 
contract is completed, guarding against breach of contract on either 
side, and ensuring that if the mercenaries don't get home, the pay is 
distributed to their next of kin.  Remember, Mercenaries aren't much 
loved by their employers.  They get the shit jobs (OK, now you pin down 
the enemy armored division while we sneak around it's flank) at the 
lowest rates of pay the market will bear.  If the PCs expect to get 
rich, they are better off running a normal passenger route.  And since 
they are mercenaries, yeah they run around with military weapons--so 
does anyone they come in contact with.  Any employer with the 
wherewithal to hire mercenaries will be able to get military weapons, 
and you don't hire mercs to deal with anything but military problems.  
And if the GM is a better tactician than the PCs, they are kinda 
fucked.  Also think about the social status of mercenaries.  In most 
nations they are somewhere between doggie doo and the green stuff 
floating in an aquarium.  They will be considered a necessity, but an 
unpleasant one that has a tendency to turn on it's masters.  Feel free 
to have them followed by an undercover agent of the local law-just in 
case.  Also expect them to have to register with each and every 
locality they go to, answering nosey questions, ('And which one of the 
upstanding citizens of Westbumfickia thinks he's hiring mercenaries?' 
is not a conversation they want to get into as they travel from the 
mainland to an island with a history of rebellion against said 
mainland).  If they travel to another planet, and their arsenal is 
discovered (Customs Inspection!) they'll have to explain that, and if 
their explanation is that they are mercenaries, they could have quite a 
bit of explaining to do.  And also, a lot of opponents don't exactally 
consider mercenaries deserving of the same consideration as opposing 
soldiers.  If a regular soldier is captured, he may end up in a POW 
camp.  If a mercenary is captured, he's typically shot on the spot.  
The exception is when both sides are employing a number of mercenaries, 
in which case there are likely to have grown up elaborate traditions 
regarding surrender and repatriations.  Exactally how mercenary 
intensive are the wars in your campaign?

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:12:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

You wrote: 

>I think that good ol' Hortalez et Cie, on behalf of the Imperial 
>government, will be collecting a MCr10 deposit from them. Heh heh.

Let's be realistic.  If a _real_ starting commandoe unit couldn't come 
up with it. . . Otherwise it's jerking with the players just to be 
jerking with them.  Feel free to arrange things so that they are stuck 
with either accepting real contracts or going bankrupt, but don't rig 
it so the poor bastards are automatically bankrupt.  Not to mention the 
health hazards of trying to play Mercenary Guild representatives (Whose 
best friends own grav tanks) for fools, if they did lie through their 
yellow buck teeth to them.

>maintain combat armor. Maybe I'll use something like this:
>
>	To don combat armor:
>	Simple, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Dexterity, 2 min (fateful).
>	Referee: An automatic mishap occurs when this roll fails.
>	Increase the difficulty one level if no skill present or if
>  	proper maintenance not done.

Ummm. . . to put it on?  Maybe that's a little excessive.  Unless they 
are really rushed (In an effort to finish dressing and rush out to save 
your friends, you forget to fasten the buttflap strap. . . )

>Maintenance could be done according to the following task:
>
>	To perform routine maintenance on combat armor:
>	Difficult, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Education, 10 min (safe).

Daily, require simple 10 minutes.  Once a week, require a difficult.  
After a fight in which the suit gets shot at (not penetrated), require 
difficult.  If someone blows a hole in it, then it requires specialized 
tools which I doubt they have.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:16:19 +2
From: "RFXn" <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

On 10 Sep 97 at 18:22, Victor J. Raymond wrote:

> I _hate_ to correct a Finn about Finnish military equipment, but the
> Lahti 9mm pistol (also manufactured by Husquarvna in Sweden), was
> _not_ a "very fine version of the classic Parabellum" -- _if_ what
> Matti is referring to is what we call here in the US a Luger.  There
> is a modest similarity in outward appearance, but the two have very
> different actions.

	Thanks Victor, I stand corrected. I've never handled either handgun
myself (Ruger GP101 being my all-time favorite), the Lahti pistol
description I remembered from some (apparently not-so-thoroughly
researched) book.

> Having fired both, taken them apart, and had each explained to me by
> my friend, Col. Castonguay (who is also a gunsmith), it's a minor
> detail.
> 
> The Lahti 20mm anti-tank rifle was heavy and long, and had a
> semi-automatic action (I _believe_).  Having only fired a Boys Mk. I
> .55 caliber anti-tank rifle myself, I have a hard time imagining
> what the Lahti would be like, as it was explained to me as being
> bigger and heavier than the Boys'.

	I think Lahti was a single-shot weapon using bodified bolt-action of 
some sort.

/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
 -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
 -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
 -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:18:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

You wrote: 

>In sealed areas with life support, the smoke and vapors from chemically
>propelled rounds and explosives are very persistent and can cause problems
>breathing, explosions cause overpressure problems like burst eardrums, and
>both can raise the temperature significantly beyond the ability of life
>support to counter or cause fires which can be difficult to control in the
>shipboard or orbital environment.  Damage to the walls also tends to 

Are you trying to tell me it will cause problems with overloading the 
life support to move through a starship firing SMGs and grenade 
launchers?  That raises the question of what the Guild was thinking 
when it designed the Decksweeper.  (Yes, TNE.)  If that's what a gang 
of pirates considers ideal, then it can't cause too many problems.  Now 
if our heros decide to acquire high energy weapons, then I can see 
problems, or if they unload a 4cm grenade into a bridge workstation, 
but other than that.  Unless you are tossing around more WP than anyone 
ever needs, I can't see the little bit of stuff put out by a hand-held 
weapon to be a problem.  

damage
>sensitive electronic systems (less likely on military ships) which can
>cause such effects as loss of gravity, steady decline in atmosphere
>quality, secondary explosions, electrical shorts of control systems, etc.
>In other words, damage is always greater than the player expects.

What are they doing?  Firing Fusion rifles on a Scoutship?  

>Rambo was fictional.  Even a very strong, high endurance sophont would have
>trouble handling and firing an M60 medium machine gun from the hip, or even
>carrying it for any distance while running.

Wearing battledress, however.  :)

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:15:32 -0500
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Technobabble and Traveller GT, coming soon Traveller LS.

Howdy, again.

I suppose I should render my apologies for using non-canon technobabble 
during an earlier set of posts re: GT.  A couple of quick points, to 
assuage inflamed feelings.

* InvalidateRect is a term any Microslave programmer should be passingly 
familiar: it's the Winders API func that allows a particular rectangle to 
be repainted (often misused by AOL and Apple/Quicktime programmers: the 
same people?).  Hence the reference to Loren's T IV, which will "repaint", 
in essence, a huge segment of Traveller 'history'.  Yeah, yeah, it's an 
'alternate' time line, whatever.  The judge and a few intellectual 
property attorneys reviewing the contract might believe that, but I'm more 
concerned with it's actual RealWorld(tm) effect on the Traveller 
community, present and future.

* T IV and HIV and Virus.  The connection should be clear, but perhaps 
it's not to the over-sensitive/zealous (one and the same?).

Anyway, folks, I was *trying* to express a little humor and my opinion at 
the same time: what I would like to see is GT do everything from CT to MT 
to TNE.  An alternate universe, IMNSHO, will damage Traveller; a little 
healthy revision, reprinting, and new material will not.  It's a time 
honored practice for RPG companies to "revise and reprint" as 2nd+ 
editions.  How many has AD&D had?  And "it's still alive"...  I don't 
think anyone would have a single complaint (zealots aside) if SJG would 
begin printing MT and TNE materials as GURPS supplements.

*sigh*  I don't personally like the GURPS system, but I have a great deal 
of respect for SJG's ability to produce (I may even try a supplement for 
them; they actually like outside authors.)

Perhaps I should begin encapsulating all of my posts with <humor> tags or 
smileys, commenting my posts, in a sense, in order to preserve some sense 
of perspective/humor.

As for GT not "invalidating" anything in the sense that MT/HT/TNE won't go 
away (already having been printed), true 'nough, ignoring the 
"assimilation effect" of GURPS (if there is one).  Perhaps Marc and 
company look on MT et al as "failed" since it didn't really catch fire in 
the RPG market.  *shrug*  However, I, for one, would like to see NEW stuff 
for the Rebellion and Hard Times eras.  (Okay, no need to tell me to go 
write it...  Some of us have day jobs, too.)
______________________________________________________________________

David Reed           | All wickedness is weakness: that plea therefore
                     | With God or Man will gain thee no remission.
david@techrefuge.com |                -John Milton, "Samson Agonistes"
______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:29:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex

You wrote: 

>>>   Continuing the analogy...

Beating it into the ground.

>>>   Thereby creating a new empire (Byzantium) that was Greek, not 
>>>Latin.
>>
>>Yet who's armies continued to march under banners bearing 'SPQR'.  
>
>   And how many of the soldiers who marched under it knew what it meant?

That would require literacy, would it not?  And considering (the 
competent) half of the army was barbarian mercenaries. . . 

>>Just don't buy any red footware unless you are really, really, really 

>>sure of yourself.
>
>   Or are prepared to be blinded, exiled, poisoned, stabbed, drown,
>strangled or overrun by Crusaders or Turks in the process.

Damn Crusaders.

John M. Atkinson
PS:This is good.  A pro-Byzantine thread on my favorite newsgroup, and 
now one on a mailing list. . . 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:31:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789)

You wrote: 

>>>   Continuing the analogy...
>>>
>>>   Thereby creating a new empire (Byzantium) that was Greek, not 
>> Latin.
>>
>> Yet who's armies continued to march under banners bearing 'SPQR'.  
>>
>> Just don't buy any red footware unless you are really, really, really 
>> sure of yourself.
>
>Definition of "certain": "Can I kill you if you are wrong?"

But they kept trying even if he was right!

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:16:21 +0200
From: Pascal Saradjian <PascalS@alphamedia.fr>
Subject: Allegence

Hello Travellers.

In T4 Referee Screens, the UPP have a allegence entry (Im for Imperium). 
But in T4 First Survey, no informations about this thing is given.
How find the side of the planet ?

Pascal Saradjian
PascalS@alphamedia.fr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:41:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1804

You wrote: 

>And it was a damn shame that Andropov had the poor taste to die, let 

Was there ever any solid evidence he was alive? :)  Gorbachev has been 
reffered to as, "The first Soviet leader Reagan could talk to without a 
seance."

Granted, it was by Bob Hope, but really. . . 

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:20:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

You wrote: 

>	I think Lahti was a single-shot weapon using bodified bolt-action of 
>some sort.

Nope.  Semiautomatic, just like the Polish ATR.  Major advantage.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:12:11 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative triv

Martin F C Pickett wrote:
> 
> 
> The other thorn in the collective sides of the merc companies is the
> presence of roving reporters from the "Mercenary! News Network - the
> Professionals' choice".  Mercenary! keeps tabs on all imperial
> licensed merc companies, to the extent of requesting customer
> satisfaction reports from employers where possible, and on a roughly
> annual basis publishes the Mercenary! company league table.  This
> table ranks all licensed companies according to criteria such as
> training, equipment levels, discipline, adherence to the prevailing
> rules of conflict etc.  As a separate rating not counted for ranking
> purposes an overall customer satisfaction rating is given for each
> company, where available.
> 

Another excellent idea. I think what I'll end up doing is coming up
with a document for the players to read which highlights all these points.

It will represent the reams of paperwork that the characters would have
to read.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:48:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Replys [sic]

On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Glenn M. Goffin, Esq. wrote:

> 
> Loren, inasmuch as your chances of winning are essentially the same
> whether you buy a ticket or not, you might as well just accept that
> frustration and grow from it.  --Glenn
> 
> 

They had a ad for the Washington Lottery a couple of years back that
always ended with "Odds of winning are 1 chance in [umpteen] million if
you play, considerably worse if you don't."

I always found that extrememly amusing...

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:42:49 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Peter Newman wrote:
> 
> Erwin Fritz wrote
> 
> >         To don combat armor:
> >         Simple, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Dexterity, 2 min (fateful).
> 
> This time increment seems a bit long.  DGP's MTJ #1 9pg 47 Dressed To
> KIll by Tom Peters) says of BattleDress that it can be donned by the
> average (skilled) trooper in about 10 minutes (a 1 minute time interval)
> - this time can be cut in half by use of an assistant or having the suit
> in a mounting frame.  It seems to me that unpowered Combat Armor should
> be no harder, and possibly easier than, Battle Dress to put on.  How
> about a 30 second time interval.  On the other hand Battle Dress may
> have power assisted closing features that Combat Armor would not so
> maybe a 2 minute interval is correct.
> 

I picked two minutes because I thought (from my faulty memory) that
the MT rules used that interval for Vacc Suits. I could be wrong.
It seems to me that Combat Armor and Vacc Suits require the same time
to put on. I'll have to check.

> >         To perform routine maintenance on combat armor:
> >         Difficult, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Education, 10 min (safe).
> >
> > Thoughts?
> 
> I think that "routine" maintenance of combat armor should be Average not
> Difficult (whats so hard about it ? ).  On the other hand it could be +2
> Diff Mod for lack of proper tools or +1 Diff Mod if you have a Machine
> shop on ship but do not have the exactly correct tools as made by the
> maker of the Combat Armor (they could of course buy these tools for Cr
> 100,000 or so - if they can find them & get permission).
> 

Good points. I'll use 'em.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:39:18 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

John Atkinson wrote:
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >I think that good ol' Hortalez et Cie, on behalf of the Imperial
> >government, will be collecting a MCr10 deposit from them. Heh heh.
> 
> Let's be realistic.  If a _real_ starting commandoe unit couldn't come
> up with it. . . Otherwise it's jerking with the players just to be
> jerking with them.  Feel free to arrange things so that they are stuck
> with either accepting real contracts or going bankrupt, but don't rig
> it so the poor bastards are automatically bankrupt.  Not to mention the
> health hazards of trying to play Mercenary Guild representatives (Whose
> best friends own grav tanks) for fools, if they did lie through their
> yellow buck teeth to them.
> 

The potential damage that can be caused by a merc outfit will easily
run into the millions. A MCr10 deposit does not seem unreasonable.
Granted, the group won't be able to come up with that number, so the
Merc Guild could loan them the deposit and use the title to their
ship as collateral. That should keep things affordable.

> >maintain combat armor. Maybe I'll use something like this:
> >
> >       To don combat armor:
> >       Simple, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Dexterity, 2 min (fateful).
> >       Referee: An automatic mishap occurs when this roll fails.
> >       Increase the difficulty one level if no skill present or if
> >       proper maintenance not done.
> 
> Ummm. . . to put it on?  Maybe that's a little excessive.  Unless they
> are really rushed (In an effort to finish dressing and rush out to save
> your friends, you forget to fasten the buttflap strap. . . )
> 

I don't agree that this is excessive. It's a Simple task, after all.
So, if you have no Vacc Suit or Battle Dress skill, the task is
Routine. If you are skilled, you'd need snake eyes on the dice to
blow it. How is that excessive?

> >Maintenance could be done according to the following task:
> >
> >       To perform routine maintenance on combat armor:
> >       Difficult, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Education, 10 min (safe).
> 
> Daily, require simple 10 minutes.  Once a week, require a difficult.
> After a fight in which the suit gets shot at (not penetrated), require
> difficult.  If someone blows a hole in it, then it requires specialized
> tools which I doubt they have.
> 

Good ideas.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 18:02 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Milieu 0 Hardback Campaign

Has anyone received their copy yet? 
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:53:44 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: While we're at it...

Speaking of Lahti's, here is a 3g3 design of a 20mm bolt-action SS sniper
rifle based on a real life design by a company called Pauza Specialities,
which also makes .50 BMG cal rifles, and .50 cal pistols (no, _NOT_ BMG,
but the .50 Action Express round. It's actually a Ruger Super Blackhawk
conversion) 

Their website is: http://members.aol.com/RPauza/index.html

(For those of you who keep track, yes it _is_ a rerun...I posted this way
back last spring when I found the Pauza site) I am going to redo this in a
five shot SA version, and also do it in FFS2, just for the heck of it, to
see what I get.

Karolan Industries 'Vindicator'AMS Rifle 20 mm TL-8

	Th Vindicator is a single shot, 20 MM infantry anti-materiel
sniper weapon. Typically employed in two man, shooter/spotter teams, this
weapon can be extremely effective at very long ranges. Slug, and DS rounds
are currently available. Typical targets include vehicles, BD equipped
personnel, fixed sensor emplacements, etc. 

	These guns can be employed at extreme ranges, a DS round has an
effective range of up to 3 kilometers, a slug up to 450 meters.

	The game statistics are as follows:

Round 	Dmg	TL	Range	Shots	Mass	Reloads	Cost

Slug	7	8	Long	1	30.3	.37 kg	8220
DS	8	8	Ex Long	1	30.3	.23 kg	8220	

	This was an effort to produce the same RL design I posted
yesterday, using 3G3 for the design system; actually I used the 3G3
spreadsheets to do it.

The physical stats are as follows:

Part		3G3	RL (estimated from the GIF, or from the stats)
Barrel		96 	96 cm
Reciever 	13 	25 cm
Stock		30 	27 cm
Weight		30.3	22 kg

There are obviously things you can do to optimize weight that aren't
calculated by either 3g3 or FFS. 

Put some of these things in the hands of natives, and your BD equipped
marines are going to have a real hard time of it.

Of course, since augumented BD has additional strength, it's possible for
them to start carrying things like this as their standard sidearm, or at
least a standard squad weapon.

Can someone post real life stats, or web or literature references to
either the Lahti or the Boys? (I'd _heard_ of the Boys .55 caliber round,
by reference in 3G3, but I sort of assumed it was an old elephant gun
round for some reason)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:59:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> said:
> This is a very interesting explanation. Just to throw a wrench into the
> works, let me bring up the topic of interest. Your explanation makes it
> clear to me how the concept of interest, especially evil compound
> interest, drives inflation.

	Actually, no, compound interest doesn't affect inflation because it 
doesn't affect the money supply.  To use the above "Gilligan's Island" 
economy as an example again:
	If you borrow a dollar from me and I say that you have to give me 
back two in a year, you have to get the extra dollar from someone else in 
order to pay me back.  So there are still the same number of dollars in 
our economy and we have not created inflation.  Now, if you counterfeited 
this extra dollar, and I didn't know it, or you otherwise paid me back 
with currency acquired elsewhere, that would increase the money supply 
and lead to inflation.

> In a perfect world were coconuts are commodities and money is just a
> medium of exchange, interest would be noncentsical (sp?) <BG>

	In the "Gilligan's Island" economy, interest would still make 
sense.  If you had one dollar, you could buy one coconut.  But say you 
wanted two and weren't willing to save up to get it?  Well, I could loan 
you the dollar to buy the coconut.  But why should I?  After all, I like 
coconuts, too.  What happens is that I let you borrow my dollar, but only 
if you pay me for the privelage.  So when you give me back my dollar, you 
also give me back an extra 10 cents. Since I prefer 1.1 coconuts next 
year to 1 coconut this year, I accept your offer.
	While consumer borrowing is significant, business borrowing is 
much more important for the long-term health of an economy.  If you 
borrowed the dollar to buy a coconut so that you could plant it and grow 
another coconut tree, this would increase the total wealth (cocnuts) in 
the economy.  Even if you didn't share your coconuts with anyone, at 
least one person (you) would be better off.  
	So to close the circle, the bank pays you interest so that you
will agree to loan the bank money (deposit it in an account).  The bank
turns around and loans the money to a business.  The business invests the
money in coconuts which it plants to grow more coconut trees.  When the
trees mature, its sells the coconuts for dollars.  It keeps some of the
dollars as profit, and gives the rest to the bank to pay back the loan. 
The bank uses the interest on the loan to the business to pay you your
interest on the money you deposited.
	There's only one problem.  There are now more coconuts in the 
economy than before, so we are going to get deflation.  This is where the 
Central Bank steps in and prints a few more dollars to correspond to the 
new coconuts.  Creating exactly as many new dollars as there are new 
coconuts keeps the price level constant.

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:07:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Ship Economics

Hans--
	I seem to have deleted your excellent piece on the proper cost of 
passenger travel, could you send it to me privately, please?  Thanks.

I do have a few questions/comments from memory:

(1)  What design system did you use for the ships and did you give them 
any kind of "mass production" discount like that given QSDS ships?

(2)  Why did you choose 3% as the "fair profit" on the ship owner's 
investment?  Why does his investment get a lower return than the banks?  
The ship owner, as the entrepreneur, is taking a much greater risk than 
the bank.  After all, the bank can always reposses the ship to recover 
its money, but he will not get his 20% back.  Riskier investments require 
higher rates of return.  For simplicity, I would make the "fair profit" 
and the interest on the bank loan the same.

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:06:46 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 laser small arms question

At 07:04 AM 9/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
>	I've been wondering whether it's possible to design a non-belt pack
>TL-12 laser pistol by sacrificing damage rating (going for 2d instead of
>5d) and battery capacity, but have found the laser design sequence in the
>playtest copy of FF&S2 less than easily comprehensible.

I might have an easier method for designing lasers soon.  I am just about
done with it and will release it probably in a few weeks.  However it will
only run on windows95 and maybe windows3.1.

However I don't know the answer to your question, I haven't gotten to the
handheld laser stuff yet, which is at the end of the sequence.

Eric Freitas
edf@atlantic.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:54:43 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

>You wrote:
>
>>In sealed areas with life support...[snip]
>Are you trying to tell me it will cause problems with overloading the
>life support to move through a starship firing SMGs and grenade
>launchers?

I'm thinking of the atmosphere in an indoor firing range, where my eyes are
watering and my nose is running, and then imagining what it would be like
if the space were half the volume, and the air was recycling in a closed
loop.  Military vessels nmay be able to handle such things, but a civvie
ship?  Yes, I think with enough gunfire the life support may start choking
on particles of burnt and unburnt gunpowder.  That doesn't begin to explore
what happens when a grenade goes off (I've never been anywhere near such an
event, but I assume there is a lot of particulate matter expelled into the
local atmosphere...and I mean the small pieces, not the big ones).

>  That raises the question of what the Guild was thinking
>when it designed the Decksweeper.  (Yes, TNE.)

Could that be a gauss weapon, which my comments specifically would not
apply to?

> Unless you are tossing around more WP than anyone
>ever needs, I can't see the little bit of stuff put out by a hand-held
>weapon to be a problem.

My opinion differs.  I think that a large handgun or .45 caliber submachine
gun will cause a significant breathing hazard if frequently and repeatedly
fired in an enclosed space over the course of a 5-10 minute battle.

>damage
>>sensitive electronic systems (less likely on military ships) which can
>>cause such effects as loss of gravity, steady decline in atmosphere
>>quality, secondary explosions, electrical shorts of control systems,
>etc.
>>In other words, damage is always greater than the player expects.
>What are they doing?  Firing Fusion rifles on a Scoutship?

Ok, lets take a RL scenario.  Take this gun...go on take it.  Ok lets get
into my 747 here...watch the step...now I'll have the pilot take us to 40k
feet.  Good.  Ok take shot at the bottom of the cabin.  No problem right?
Wrong.  Ignoring the problems of a hull breach (The analogy breaks down at
the hull since starship hulls are obviously well armored) you've just split
open the hydrolic line from the cockpit to the wing.  Or perhaps you've
severed a
fuel line, or maybe just the "waitress call" button.  In any case, I have
my lightweight parachute handy during the whole experiment.

The fact is a starship and an airplane (and an orbital facility, and an
air/raft...) are complex mechanical and electronic machines.  They are not
armored on the inside (wasted weight is wasted money) so any reasonable
round will simply pass through the inner skin and hit the outer (where it
may, in fact, ricochet back in).  In the process it will part any soft
items, such as electronic control systems, coolant conduits, hydrolic
tubing, wires, lighting fixtures, etc. etc., which get in the way.  Taking
unreasonable rounds, like those from a 30 caliber machine gun and spewing
them about the cabin of a starship will have multiple such effects, which
can be both dangerous and expensive.

Now, it would take a real weapon (Armor Piercing GL, which I've seen
characters waving around in ships before)to pierce the liquid hydrogen
storage tank, but I bet the feed lines are less well armored!  The point
is, bullets do things.

>>Rambo was fictional.  Even a very strong, high endurance sophont would have
>>trouble handling and firing an M60 medium machine gun from the hip, or even
>>carrying it for any distance while running.
>
>Wearing battledress, however.  :)

Unless it hasn't been properly maintained, in which case the character
dislocates his shoulder while trying to move, and then gets stuck in place
when the hydrolics shut down, leaving him stranded inside a half a ton of
superdense.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1806
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 11 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1807



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

XBoats.  J6 or J4?
Re: Sanity
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
getting stuff done
Re: chip
Multi-platform Traveller Software
Re:dan lane
Re:dan lane
Re: America 2300ad
FF&S - How is it?
Canon: the definition
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Tech Levels

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:59:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: XBoats.  J6 or J4?

>>>But I would like to find out if it can be done, so here is the criteria, a
>>>snow cone shaped hull, jump six jump drives, two staterooms, minimal
>>>kitchen area, minimal sensors, large TL 15 computers and databanks, and
>>>life support for two for two weeks. Design all components at TL 15. Also
>>>show you math work please.
>>
>>Ahem, the 'canon' xboat was jump-4, not jump-6.  Saves a lot of fuel space,
>>as well as drive space.
>
>Wrong answer!, the TL-15 Xboat was jump-6, it is from several "canon"
>sources. 
>If you would like I can start quoting the sources.

I believe that the other person who posted was absolutely correct.  Imperial
XBoats were Jump-4, not Jump-6.  Two examples:

"Supplement 9:  Fighting Ships"
p12

"Performance: Jump-4. 0-G (no maneuver). No power plant (and consequently no
energy points and no agility)."

"Megatraveller: Imperial Encyclopedia"
p24

"...making the speed of communication nearly the speed of jump (since XBoats
carry jump-4 drives, speeds near four parsecs per week)."

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 19:59 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Sanity

In-Reply-To: <l03102802b0316214257e@[207.194.197.101]>

Richard,

> >No. Women are secure enough that they don't feel threatened by terms like
> >that.  And political correctness is dead.  (It's a future history, so I'm
> >picking the future _I_ want :-)
>  
> And you are entitled to do so. In my future history, though, men aren't so
> insecure they try to defend illogical and ungrammatical terminology with
> rationalizations like "political correctness". Stuff like "Rule of Man" is
> simply incorrect, since it would logically apply to male humans from any of
> the species of humaniti and not just to Terrans, while of course excluding
> women of any species.

AIUI, 'man' is a neutral term, and refers to the race (ie mankind). 'woman' 
is feminine, and refers to females of the species. There is no masculine 
term, so we hijacked 'man'. 'Rule of Man' is a perfectly correct name.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:11:45 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

>>Ahem, the 'canon' xboat was jump-4, not jump-6.  Saves a lot of fuel space,
>>as well as drive space.
>
>Wrong answer!, the TL-15 Xboat was jump-6, it is from several "canon"
>sources.
>If you would like I can start quoting the sources.

Sure, I would be very interested in such things.  My source is Traders and
Gunboats, Supplement 7, CT.

Also (I Think) Starships, Book 3, CT.

I believe that the Megatraveller Encyclopedia repeated that trend, but I
may be wrong.  In any case, a jump 6 xboat network invalidates the cute
little trick in the rebellion era when Norris knew of the assassination of
Strephon before the rest of the domain.  This occurred, according to, I
think, The Rebellion Sourcebook, through the use of the Imperiallines
covert imperial courier ships which *were* J6.

I do not recall whether they were TL15.  I seem to think they were TL14
which was more common in that era anyway, especially among the scout
service vessels.  A military courier was in Fighting Ships (Supplement 9)
and that may have been jump 6 and TL15.

>>>snip<<
>>>Under Table 163: Advanced Thrusters there is no minimum size just a minimum
>>>thrust.
>>
>>Doesn't this translate into a minimum size?
>
>It means I could put it into 2t vessel.

Is that a problem?  Sorry, I don't have the book and you seem to be
implying that this should be obvious.  a 2t vessel wont be very useful
since it has no passenger space, but perhaps a "scooter" for moving around
the outside of a ship could be 2t with just a seat.  I am not familiar
enough with the material to understand why this is an error.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:23:24 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

oops, missed a few.

>At 10:09 AM 9/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>>The nuclear warhead table does not show an TL advancements ie a TL 9 and TL
>>>15 10kt warhead are the same size. Also the nuclear warhead tables not show
>>>the pen/damage ratings for the radii.
>>
>>Well, it can be argued that the amount of energy yield from nuclear fission
>>is not something one can improve on.  Perhaps there is a fusion warhead
>>table (I do not yet have FFS2)?
>
>Hmm does that mean that we still have to use devices like the ones the US
>dropped upon Japan you know "Littel Boy" and "Fatman" to get the kiloton
>range that they were at. The nuclear was table was taken for Striker 1, but
>the TL progression was not included.

You didn't say, above, that *TL5* (little boy, fat man) and TL15 were the
same.  At a certain point there is little mass or volume to be saved since
the control components are as small as they will get and the other major
component, the plutonium or other "hot stuff" has to be a certain size to
reach "critical mass".

At TL9 the whole device should be pretty small, perhaps as small as it
gets.  You did not actually post the figures, only assumed that no one had
looked at it and that the authors had simply tried to lift the table from
striker, and failed.

Personally, I cannot understand why there is a table for nukes at all.  I
cannot see implementing the game effects and making a determination other
than "target destroyed" if a hit is made with a nuke warhead (short of
starship combat anyway).  I suppose it would be nice to know how much of
the city is left (blast radius), or what direction the wreckage flies off
in, but tis all pretty moot.  I would implement the results in a less
structured way myself.  I suppose there is an argument for completeness, or
land-battleship combat (ala Bolo), but that's not really very
travelleresque.  Oops, got into a tangent there.

>You really don't know me this is rather pleasant for me, you see some of my
>other posts.<G>

Actually, I know that you can draw the line between friendly argument and
downright animosity.  I was just trying to say I thought you'd gone too far
towards the latter.

Pete

Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:32:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: tconnor@pop3.utoledo.edu (Tim Connors)
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

>At 10:09 AM 9/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>>The nuclear warhead table does not show an TL advancements ie a TL 9 and TL
>>>15 10kt warhead are the same size. Also the nuclear warhead tables not show
>>>the pen/damage ratings for the radii.
>>
>>Well, it can be argued that the amount of energy yield from nuclear fission
>>is not something one can improve on.  Perhaps there is a fusion warhead
>>table (I do not yet have FFS2)?
>
>Hmm does that mean that we still have to use devices like the ones the US
>dropped upon Japan you know "Littel Boy" and "Fatman" to get the kiloton
>range that they were at. The nuclear was table was taken for Striker 1, but
>the TL progression was not included.
>
        No, but it does mean, for example, that a TL-20 internal combustion
engine has approximately the same characteristics as a TL-8 internal
combustion engine. You can reach a limit of improvement for any specific
device independent of tech increases.

Tim Connors

You can't fall off of the floor -- most human beings require three years to
learn this.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:30:23 -0400
From: Thomas Walter Trelenberg <tomt@scri.fsu.edu>
Subject: getting stuff done

****************************************
Different developments on either side, and different ways of utilizing these
developments.  The soviets had a low-tech outlook on things, true.  But, that
attitude also got stuff done (Mir, first man spaced flight, only probe to
Venus, etc. etc.).  Stuff that America, with all its technology, couldn't do.
*****************************************


I agree with most what you are saying about "let us be proud of America
but not cram "America" down everyones gut" but feel the need to point
out a few points on your above statement.

One.  The Apollo missions were no small cheeze--if fact I might even say
that those involved-"got stuff done".

Secondly, seeing as there is a lot of space in space, there are lots of
places to send probes--even back then US probes went to places the USSR
probes did not.  Different space agencies probably have a different
outlook on proritizing mission destinations.

Finally, while I don't have any numbers, I have heard that in its
endevors the expendability of human life was not as great a factor as in
the US (space prog. for example--before challenger we had only lost
three people (in an early apollo mission if I remember correcly).  As I
said, I don't have any absolute numbers...but just from talking with
people from the former Soviet Union its seems their numbers mign=ht be a
little higher.)  Given the choice...whos program would you have wanted
to be an astronaut/cosmonaut in?

Just thoughts

TT

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:24:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: chip

Chip/Lugh1 said:

>the actual startin post was " if the U.S. was involved in a war WITH OUT 
>nukes the U.S.ed be in a heap of trouble ." 

Nope, I wrote the original post you replied to, and this is what it said:

>Its a game, and a game that's been out of print for like 7 years or
something absurd >like that, relax.  If America was involved in WW3 with
limited nuclear exchange, the >U.S.ed be in a heap of trouble.  That's the
way it goes.

Note the "limited nuclear exchange" part.  

>and you think I am out of touch ? at least I read the entire post before
>insulting some one about a view point I know nothing about . also john ,
>I was in the gulf and I think I know the difference from a nuclear
>exchange . anyway feel free to make an ass out of yourself again I don't
>mind .

Before you start getting nasty with people like that, I'd like to point out
that you are guilty of exactly what you accused him of, and he, in fact, did
read the post and he understood it correctly.  The verdict is "not guilty"
for him...

Just chill.  Its only the background to a game.  No reason to call people
asses and stuff.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:56:42 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Multi-platform Traveller Software

This Fall semester, I am in "CSC-4802 Software Engineering Clinic" sponsored
by OMNIS, a software company in California.  I know little of the company,
except that they have been doing their product for about 15 years, and am
learning about their product in this course.  It is an Integrated Development
Environment (IDE) targeting cross-platform uses on Windows and Macintosh
machines.  (The code is completely portable between them, and is run
interpretively.)

As many GUI builders go, you have to have their software, or (I assume) at
least an application presentation package, installed on each machine that
the application is to be run on, so we are not talking software that you
could easily share with friends, etc.

Listening to Rob Prior posting that his Mac software may be ported for the
MS-Win environment, and remembering how GDW (early 80's) had asked me if I
could port their programs (CT) to the PC environment (I held back my
laughter not wanting to embarass them), I thought about the possibility
that there might be a group with access (at work, or wherever) to the
software that would be required to use a library I could build for
Traveller software [my particular forte being centered around world
generation/development/storage].

As many companies do, OMNIS claims client/server technology, which if true
could conceivably result in the concept of a central database, that those
with WWW access, might be able to reach.  That is just one idea that comes
to mind.

If there is anyone out there interested, e-mail me directly.  (Since I
"signed" off the list a few weeks ago, I haven't kept up with a single digest,
even those with my last posts, so I doubt anything will change there.)

From the sandy bottom, below even normal "lurker" depths,


Leroy Guatney - lwlg@usa.net
 University of Mars, NorthAm Campus
 Class of '98

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:48:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re:dan lane

Apologies to the list for a totally non-game related reply

On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 lugh1@juno.com wrote:

> We certainly defended ourselve well enough in panama , grenada , Iraq .
> excuse the sarcasm but you can't actually believe this . I was in a RDF [
> thats rapid deployment force for you squabbys out there ] and our
> Training taught us to isolate reduce and destroy all resistance ,
> presumably soviet [ paper tiger any one ? ] but tactically anyone 

Panama and Grenada are both smaller that 75% of our states, and the total
size of their armed forces is somewhat under what we give to just one of
our flag officers.  Iraq was worrysome, but the air war preceding the
ground war destroyed their C&C, devastated the armor they had in place,
and reduced the morale of their troops to the point that they were
surrendering to the ROVs put out by the USS IOWA. And while training
taught me that one of our surface ships was the equivalent to 5 Soviet
surface vessels, research showed me that in the late eighties, there was
something like an 8 to 1 disparity (over 13 when you count in the merchant
marine), a high percentage of which were attack submarines (which have a
higher 'kill rate' against surface craft).  
 
> 
> > The European militaries are professional  and sharp,
> > and will soon be BETTER (if they aren't already) at the
> >individual quality and training level.
> 
> you obviously have never been on field exercise with the german army .
> they sit around in the field drinking beer and eating snitzel [ I wish I
> had had some ] . ermany would be our toughest fight in the west and
> history shows they are only good at beating the french .

I am not familiar with the current state of the European military, so I
will not comment on that.  But recent history shows that the German
military is good enough to take on a large percentage of the *World*,
repeatedly, fight on multiple fronts, and do pretty darn well.

> 	also If you want to make a broad statement about troop quality
> than speak for your branch not mine , my training [ brain washing :) ]
> was that we are the best military bar none and that is why we [ the
> american military ] are always the ones called in to deal with third
> world dictators and desert scum . 

I'm glad you mentioned brain washing, now I don't have too!  :)  

Seriously tho', what else can you tell someone that is being trained to
ignore self-preservation and place themselves in a position to get
themselves killed in a variety of very nasty ways?  "We're second best,
but we try harder?"  I don't think so.  

No disrespect to your service or your training, but you are immersed in a
culture and lifestyle that reinforces your beliefs.  'Gung-ho' 'Ooo-Ra'
etc.  It's a necessary part of your psyche to do what you do, but it
doesn't reflect real-world reality.

Don't underestimate your enemy, that's what I was taught.  Question what
is known, form hypotheses, based on evidence not hype, and verify what you
can.  If you convince yourself that you (and our armed forces) are the
best, then how can you possibly respect what other forces, say the British
SAS, Russian Spetznaz (sp?), Japanese self-defense forces, etc... have to
show us?

I think it is indisputable that manning levels for all the armed forces
have been cut, to what I consider critical levels.  (What is the current
multi-conflict doctrine anyway?  I know it is no longer Win/Win)

I think it is also indisputable that operational budgets have shrunk over
the past few years, while operational commitments maintained or increased.
My last year in the Nav (3 years ago) I kept hearing how training and
maintenance funds were being diverted to operational funding.

And gosh, having spent a *short* time as a drilling reservist, I saw that
the reserve forces are being called up in ever increasing numbers to
offset the shortfall of active duty units.  As a matter of fact, a friend
of mine in the Army Reserve has been called for duty in Bosnia, another
acquaintence just got back.  Again, another reservist.

> 
> > The military of the Gulf War no longer
> >exists in the US (but give us a few weeks)...
> 
> did we all go some where ??? 

Well, I certainly did.  Prospects were better in the Civilian world than
in Clinton's Navy.  I don't regret my 9 years, but I have better things to
do for my family now.

Douglas Glatz
FC1 (AW/SW), USNR

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:11:54 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re:dan lane

At 05:04 AM 9/11/97 EDT, you wrote:

>I weep for the navy and the nation when pissimistic self defeating
>persons are placed in command of soldiers [ I am sorry I meant sailors ] 
>
>>------------------------------
>jim chip mckee

Your comments are disrespecful, off-topic, and insulting.

Either grow up, or go away.

You are not the only veteran on this list, and not the only combat veteran
(you *did* actually go where the bang-bangs happened, or are you a REMF?)

Remember that the last war America fought on it's own, we lost.  

If you want to flame about this, mail me privately.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:58:01 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 03:33 AM 9/11/97 EDT, you wrote:
>LOL , I can see alot of your points fellas don't get me wrong , but I
>still really dislike the U.S. being deligated to a secondary role . this
>is not the future I invisioned and it was a real sticking point for me
>when I used to run the game . If the U.S. was so horrible in 2000 then
>explain the fact that the U.S. still had a space proram in 2001 ! I
>believe the adventure was fallen star in which the party was to recover a
>satallite for relaunch .

The satellite in question was launched prior to the war, and contained
important meterological data.  The United States was nuked in 1997, invaded
by Mexico and the Soviet Divison Cuba, and had a three way civil war going
with the majority of its military stranded overseas.

Hardly a situation given to world domination.

>in 2000 the U.S. still has trans atlantic shipping and many major citys .
>also to disagree with the fella who said the U.S. and russia did not
>tangle in T2000  , this is wrong read the background the U.S. and russia
>fought major engagements dureing the lenth of the war . ..

Remeber the adventure "Going Home"?  The US had to scrape together a few
ships for the last evacuation of US troops out of Europe.. there wasn't
going to be another one!  US tropps in the Persian Gulf were stranded until
about 2005 when the French finally evacuated them.

The majot US metropolitan areas were either nuked or severely depopulated
by 2000 (ref: "Howling Wildnerness")  I think Tampa, Fl. was one of the
largest cities left on the eastern Seaboard, and it was run by New America!

>I am pro U.S. and I am pround of this nation I would not have minded if
>the U.S. and other nations had shared leadership rules [ as it is now
>with the nato alliance ] but the U.S. being secondary to any other power
>? kind of hard to believe . 

I'm a veteran and politacally active, and I find no problem at all with the
scernario as presented in 2300AD.

Go back 300 years.  In 1697, the two powers that dominated the world were
Spain and England.  They *owned* the seas, there influence was everywhere.
In Europe, Sweden was a feared military power.  There was no such thing as
Germany or Italy (as single nations).  Japan was still a fuedalist,
isolationist mystery.

To a man of the late 17th Century, the thought that in 300 years the two
greates powers would be a rebellious British colony and the post-Czar
peasents of Russia would seem to be as a bsurd as claiming that men could
walk on the Moon!

Open your perspectives a little, it really helps.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:55:08 -0500
From: Ryan Christensen <litefoot@mci2000.com>
Subject: FF&S - How is it?

Hello all. I just recently rejoined the land of the living (graduated
Marine boot camp Friday), so I've been out of touch for a while.

	Has anyone gotten ahold of the new FF&S? I was helping playtest it
before I left, so I am really curious to see how it turned out. 

Ryan
litefoot@MCI2000.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:37:07 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Canon: the definition

I recently observed that the GURPS: Traveller announcement did not portend
well for Traveller "canon" as the 'net seems to know it.  A simple one line
comment on HIWG list lead to a whole _sh_t-storm of discussion (not flames
by the way) about "canon" replete with the usual, "If canon is out the door,
then so am I ..." and similar responses.  There were also the oblique (and
some less so) references to "what I want to do with the history of the
Traveller universe, vis-a-vis the Rule of Man Tech Level discussion
(c.'97, Summer, TML).

Somewhat tangentially, just today in lecture for my "SOC-2462 Introduction
to Social Psychology" course, taught by Dr. Jon Winterton (UCD's Sociology
program is rated in the top five in the United States), this illustrious,
enjoyable, and self-proclaimed socialist, said on the subject of Human
Information Processing, specifically on messages (paraphrasing my notes):

   "Messages provide generalization. ... Information arises in the
    process of making choices (in a relationship, both sides have
    to have choice) ... Information is transmitted -- you can not,
    not [that is two nots in a row, not a typoe] send information,
    refusing to communicate _is_ sending a message"

   "Information changes the state of the organism [i.e. individual]
    When we make discoveries, everything changes, or the change is
    not believed, i.e. the Big Thompson Canyon flood from a few years
    ago."  He then relayed the story about a mountain canyon flood of
    a few years ago.  A policeman at the bottom of the canyon,
    received advance information that a flow was propagating down
    the canyon.  He gave his life, driving up the canyon to warn
    people that their lives were in danger.  These people, in some
    cases had 60 seconds to decide whether to flee their cars and
    head for high ground or not.  There were some people who did not
    flee and are not with us now.

I finally have received at least _some_ insight into why a few people on
the lists seemed to think that I was totally wacko with an assertion about
scant and slim references about the history of the Traveller Universe.

With little fact to go on, and a lot of information seemingly conflicting,
we make choices of information interpretation.  In this case, no life
was at risk, but old interpretations of vagueries were.  I shall continue
to question assumptions, look for a common unifying understanding rather
than make one assumption and then look ascance at subsequent evidence to
the contrary.

We can concoct elaborate theories about what the motivation or origin of
some source is, but it boils down to theocracy.  Bearing that in mind,
Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 10th edition says:

<Quote>

A  (1) canon - (before 12th Century):

        1 a : a regulation or dogma decreed by a church council
          b : a provision of canon law (see below)
        2   : the most solemn and unvarying part of the Mass including
              the consecration of the bread and wine
        3 a : an authoritative list of books accepted as Holy Scripture
          b : the authentic works of a writer
          c : a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works
              <the ~ of great literature>
        4 a : an accepted principle or rule
          b : a criterion or standard of judgement
          c : a body of principles, rules, standards, or norms
        5 a : a contrapuntal musical composition in two or more voice
              parts in which the melody is imitated exactly and completely
              by the successive voices though not always at the same pitch

B  (2) canon

        1 a : a clergyman belonging to the chapter or the staff of a
              cathedral or collegiate church
        2   : canon regular (see below)

C      canon law - (1552 AD)

            : usually the codified law governing a church

D      canon regular - (14th Century)

            : a member of one of several Roman Catholic religious
              institutes of regular priests living in a community under
              a usually Augustinian rule

<End of Quote>

Whoever coined the usage of "canon" to describe the language of TML either
didn't know just _how_ telling that was, or they set you all up.

Personally, I wouldn't fall in the trap of interpreting that little white
space between the words of the books we pour over to be all that filled
in.  There are vast rifts ripe for the imagination.  Just don't get too
set on making the "law" for those not present.  You may just find a
classic revolt in the making.

It does give rise to a whole new class of Religious Dictatorship for
Traveller. <G>

Maybe this sheds light on my earlier (paraphrased) comment, "You want canon,
you kissa da Pope's hand--you try to bite it, you get da wrath of heaven."


Leroy Guatney - lwlg@usa.net
 University of Mars, NorthAm Campus
 Class of '98

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:11:24 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
> Ok, lets take a RL scenario.  Take this gun...go on take it.  Ok lets get
> into my 747 here...watch the step...now I'll have the pilot take us to 40k
> feet.  Good.  Ok take shot at the bottom of the cabin.  No problem right?
> Wrong.  Ignoring the problems of a hull breach (The analogy breaks down at
> the hull since starship hulls are obviously well armored) you've just split
> open the hydrolic line from the cockpit to the wing.  Or perhaps you've
> severed a
> fuel line, or maybe just the "waitress call" button.  In any case, I have
> my lightweight parachute handy during the whole experiment.
> 
> The fact is a starship and an airplane (and an orbital facility, and an
> air/raft...) are complex mechanical and electronic machines.  They are not
> armored on the inside (wasted weight is wasted money) so any reasonable
> round will simply pass through the inner skin and hit the outer (where it
> may, in fact, ricochet back in).  In the process it will part any soft
> items, such as electronic control systems, coolant conduits, hydrolic
> tubing, wires, lighting fixtures, etc. etc., which get in the way.  Taking
> unreasonable rounds, like those from a 30 caliber machine gun and spewing
> them about the cabin of a starship will have multiple such effects, which
> can be both dangerous and expensive.
> 

You're analogy is a good one, but use a submarine instead of an
airplane. Why? Because subs, like starships, have internal bulkheads
that are very solid. In MT rules, you need 250 points of damage to
one to create a man-size hole (a breach). A handgun will do squat to
one of those.

Now, I assume that pipes, cabling and other equipment would be found
either inside the bulkhead (if the components are small enough) or
generally away from the living areas (for aesthetic reasons). The risk
of firing a handgun in one of the living areas and causing serious
damage is minimal. Letting loose in Engineering, though, is another
matter.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:00:50 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

At 03:30 PM 9/11/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Finally, while I don't have any numbers, I have heard that in its
>endevors the expendability of human life was not as great a factor as in
>the US (space prog. for example--before challenger we had only lost
>three people (in an early apollo mission if I remember correcly).  As I
>said, I don't have any absolute numbers...but just from talking with
>people from the former Soviet Union its seems their numbers mign=ht be a
>little higher.)  Given the choice...whos program would you have wanted
>to be an astronaut/cosmonaut in?

The Soviets lost four cosmonauts directly related to missions, either in
training or in actual operations.  To date, no one has managed to die in space.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:10:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Tech Levels

In mail you write:

> I agree! I like this new scheme better -- more specific and descriptive.
> But I would call TL-0 "Pre Tech", more catchy.

But *very* inaccurate. TL0 has some pretty impressive tech. We don't
use it any more so most folks don't realize the skill and ability
required to make these "primitive" things.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1807
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 11 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1808



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Monetary Economics
Imagination First, Canon Second.
Re: Milieu 0 Hardback Campaign
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Jingoism and patriotism
Re: Monetary Economics
Re: Technobabble and Traveller GT, coming soon Traveller LS.
Re: Monetary Economics
Re: Jump Torpedos
Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD) (long)
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:27:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

In mail you write:

>> Note also that in my world, a merc band is responsible for site security,
>> so it someone breaks into their ship and steals weapons not allowed at the
>> current TL, the players are responsible for what is done with the weapons.
>
> Interesting. I see an adventure or two here ...

And anybody who is trying to steal weapons from a merc outfit has *got*
to be desperate or crazy. Which means that they will react in
unexpected ways. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:22:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

In mail you write:

> Excellent ideas. I figure that roughly 5% of the cost of the weaponry
> would be a reasonable amount to pay for bringing weaponry through
> customs. What do you think? This provides the PCs with incentive to
> get merc tickets quickly because those fees will bankrupt them after
> a while.

If you are in the US, you might try contacting the local BATF office
and asking for a copy of the regulations and "tax schedule" for owning
fully automatic weapons and "destructive devices". Tell them you are
doing research for a book (close enough to reality, and easier for them
to understand than the longer explanation).

As I recall, the fees *start* at something like $1000-5000 for a simple
machinegun and go up rapidly. And the regulations are rather
cunbersome. Just the thing to bug players with. :-)
(And if they complain that your regs are "unrealistic", you can show
them a copy of the *real* laws here :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:37:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

In mail you write:

> This is a very interesting explanation. Just to throw a wrench into the
> works, let me bring up the topic of interest. Your explanation makes it
> clear to me how the concept of interest, especially evil compound
> interest, drives inflation.
>
> In a perfect world were coconuts are commodities and money is just a
> medium of exchange, interest would be noncentsical (sp?) <BG>

No more so than the idea that doing work results in getting given money.

> In the technologically and economically advanced Imperium, perhaps the
> whole notion of currency self-replication through compound interest
> would be seen as incredibly backward and barbaric. Would such a system
> even be viable in when information travel times are measured in weeks
> and months?

Interest is a *service*, rather than a good. Specificly, Interest is
the fee you get paid for the "service" of allowing the bank to use your
money. They make loans, collect interest on them, and part of that
interest gets paid to you.

Likewise, interest on a loan is the price you are paying to use someone
else's money.

Like I said, it's no sillier than getting paid for providing any other
service. 

I'm amazed at the number of people who don't understand this. Of
course, most people tend to think of money as being real in and of
itself, rather than a means of "keeping score" in the economy.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:20:02 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Imagination First, Canon Second.

People who would say "If the Canon leaves, so do I" have not the imagination necessary to 
be a roleplayer.

EGADS!

I have played many games of 'general' theme, ala Traveller and AD&D and 'canon' is nice, 
but this isn't a game based on a 'canon' like Star Wars or Star Trek, where you want to 
adhere to the original.  We never once had a D&D campaign take place in any 'official' TSR 
setting, we made them up.  We had FUN!

Use your imagination people.  Come up with adventures of your own, using the gaming 
restraints offered by the rules and don't worry how they fit into the BIG picture.  It is 
not like in most cases you would port from one game world to the next.  

IT IS JUST A GAME, PEOPLE.


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:32:04 +1000
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0 Hardback Campaign

>Has anyone received their copy yet?

No, although my credit card was charged back in July(!) for it. I gather it
has finally been released though, so hopefully IG will hurry up and send
them out to us.

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:26:39 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Alex Ingram wrote:

>I would like to see your Regency Rules of War. I also have several pages
>of notes governing the Mercenary Guild, the Bonding Authority and the
>Merc Code of Conduct. I'll be willing to provide such in the next few
>days. We're on the same track here.

Okay. They're on the web. See:

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/campaign/Mercenary_Code.html

For my take on the rules of war and on laws pertaining to mercenaries.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:37:04 +1000
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?

>>>Ahem, the 'canon' xboat was jump-4, not jump-6.  Saves a lot of fuel space,
>>>as well as drive space.
>>
>>Wrong answer!, the TL-15 Xboat was jump-6, it is from several "canon"
>>sources.
>>If you would like I can start quoting the sources.
>
>I believe that the other person who posted was absolutely correct.  Imperial
>XBoats were Jump-4, not Jump-6.  Two examples:


If _I_ remember right, there were two types of XBoats (in 1116).

- - The standard ones, which everyone knew about and used - these were Jump-4.

- - The secret ones, which only high level government people knew about.
These were Jump-6, and were (for eg) how Noris knew about the assassination
before the general public did.

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Erwin Fritz wrote:

> Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
> You're analogy is a good one, but use a submarine instead of an
> airplane. Why? Because subs, like starships, have internal bulkheads
> that are very solid. In MT rules, you need 250 points of damage to
> one to create a man-size hole (a breach). A handgun will do squat to
> one of those.
> 
> Now, I assume that pipes, cabling and other equipment would be found
> either inside the bulkhead (if the components are small enough) or
> generally away from the living areas (for aesthetic reasons). The risk
> of firing a handgun in one of the living areas and causing serious
> damage is minimal. Letting loose in Engineering, though, is another
> matter.
> 

Having experienced both Naval vessels and Luxury Liners, I would tend to
disagree with you.  Naval and Scout vessels will not cover up their
piping, wire conduits, and the like (except where contact with those
components represents a safety hazard) for two reaons.  1) Access to those
components for maintenance and damage control and 2) (possibly the
overriding reason) It costs money to cover those components and these
ships are built by _the_lowest_bidder_!  Cargo vessels would be mixed, but
I've yet to see a cargo ship on the ocean that looked like it had any but
the most basic of maintence performed on it.  I tend to think that, if
there is any construction/design difference, it would be that the safety
items may be omitted to save money...  Passenger-carrying vessels are
another class entirely - how they look and feel will, to a great extent,
determine how profitable they are.  The one liner I've been on (visiting
from a cruiser, it was quite a shock) looked more like a high class hotel
than a ship, from the inside.

Still, from the point of damage, I imagine that the panels covering the
electrical and fluidic components are not that thick, and these components
would be vulnerable to damage on any class of ship.

On the bright side, many of the more dangerous pipes (H2 supply, high
pressure air) would be covered with an insulation which could easily be
made of a ballistic cloth.  High power conduits would tend to be waveguide
or some equivalant technology (fairly safe unless it's pointed at you,
otherwise think of standing in front of a high energy rf transmitter).
Most electronic systems will be redundant.

On the dark side, most insulations we use today have really nasty fumes
when they burn, as do most of the lubricants we use.  I don't see that
changing much.  Additionally, high pressure systems are dangerous (even
with TL 7 technology we developed 1200 PSI propulsion systems where a leak
will cut you in half), and starships will have those in abundance (for
example, landing gear).

Another interesting thought is how the ship itself will react to damage.
The computer monitors and reacts to situations constantly, and even
without anti-hijack running, there can be consequences.  Supposing a
hijacker uses a grenade in the common room.  How does the computer react
to a hull breach?  Or to fire?  Or to toxic gases?  Any of the above would
be appropriate.

 --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:23:35 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Jingoism and patriotism

At 05:04 AM 9/11/97 EDT, lughl@juno.com wrote:
....
>	understand one thing , when I was trying to run this game all of
>the players and myself were 11M infantry men in the U.S. army and perhaps
>because of the mindset we had we could not enjoy a game where ..
>A. mexico conquered most of cali. and texas . and we never took it back !
>B. the american arm was a bust while every other arm was full speed ahead
>C. American equipment , personel and space program considered third rate

An important point with any future history game is that it is very hard to
tell when a country is gong to go sour.  I personally think the excessive
emphasis on higher education for jobs which do not require it, coupled with
draining the talent which makes higher education worthwhile out of the
classrooms and into the research laboratories is going to produce ever less
trained students.  These ever less competent students and citizens are a
far bigger threat than anything else I see facing us.

Consider - the vast majority of the high school teachers have had perhaps
one physics class in college.  At most universities, that course is taught
by a graduate student who, it is presumed, does not have the experience or
the training to be a full professor yet.  Often, the grad student teaching
a course may have taught it at most once or twice before.  (TA appointments
are usually only given to young grad students.)  In many cases, the grad
students are foreign and have learned the language relatively recently,
making it less likely that the information will be transferred to the
students.  (NB nationality is not important, but total time speaking the
language is very important.  The two Japanese and the Korean I work with
here all write exceedingly well in English, but one of them speaks English
as a native, while the other two are very diffident about the language, and
do not have full speaking fluency.)

This kind of thing results in most people having never had a competently
taught science course, because the people who might have taught their
teachers are often not terribly good.  Similar tales abound in history,
philosophy, mathematics, and other subjects.  As a result, we will end up
losing a number of years of productivity from our citizens to no good purpose.

How does this relate to jingoism and patriotism?  Without the hard data to
judge from people are forced to make some rather important judgements based
on a total lack of global information.

For example - from talking with a number of European graduate students, I
discovered that a high grade school in England or Germany, followed by a
carefully selected institution for graduate work in the US can prepare one
far better _IN CERTAIN FIELDS_ than the US, English, or German schools
could alone.  (I cannot speak for Ireland, Scotland, Wales, or much of the
rest of Europe - insufficient samples.)

When I have said this to a number of people, they became very defensive
about the schools in their country, because their experience was different.
 We have different information, and without an easy way to compare it,
things get dicey.  This leads to one or both of us sounding jingoistic,
when we are merely being reasonably patriotic, and judging from a small
sample.

Traveller is, for me, a Utopian game.  I care not what the position of the
Solomani is in the 3I, but I am very interested in what kind of economic,
educational, and political decisions the 3I has made.  As a result, the
economics tend to be Libertarian, the politics half aristocratic, and half
meritocratic, and the education much more focused on lifetime learning.
This is why the average Traveller character does not go to college
explicitly, but is expected to get EDU boosts during the course of
virtually every career.

To someone who has a strong patriotic sense, it is quite silly to make the
US anything less than a full player in the next century.  This can
translate into jingoism when said person does not realize that others in
other countries will have much the same feel.  Further, many people will
have a different assumption set, which justifies their opinions.

Another example - two of the people I know in the Navy feel that the US
would have a hell of a time in a war of aggression, because we have drawn
down the force levels tremendously.  Further, their views were matched by a
 group of people I knew who were involved in exercises against current
Soviet equipment - they were not that worried about any single piece of
equipment, but there was just so damn much of it that they felt rather
concerned, were world politics to heat up.

On the other hand, the one SAS chap I have had the pleasure of meeting was
not at all concerned about the ability of the SAS, the Deltas, and various
other special forces organizations to annihilate virtually anything the
Soviets, or anyone else, threw at them.  Their training was so far above
anything he had ever witnessed in the opposition that it would be no
contest in his opinion.  This led to some terribly jingoistic statements,
but they were drawn from his experience with other, non elite, troops.

The rule I try to use is to keep my own views on "world power balances" to
myself, and limit it to Utopian statements.

One further comment:

>as a matter of fact america is depected as a tired ol'has been and pitied
>by the rest of the world as exemplified by the quote in the book " Japan
>looks to america as a fallen giant . " why did every nation in the world
>recover better than the U.S. ?? 

Depends again on assumptions.  Five years ago, I was living in the worst
recession to hit Orange County in a long time.  P{people were losing homes,
jobs, and other things right and left.  The general opinion of the future
of the US was very grim, and the high tech fields got some of that
grimness.  You could not open a book without seeing how cheap foreign
competition was going to eat us alive.  Now, that feeling is less prevalent
with the end of the economic downturn, and the rise of the biggest bull
market in decades.

If we lost significant economic power for whatever reason, we could end up
like the Spanish as the sun set on their world power.  On the other hand,
if we turn current economic power into future economic power, we might be
able to be a dominant force for the next century.  Which one of those
outcomes you expect depends a lot on your own level of economic optimism.
Given that it takes about a generation for such effects to materialize
after the causes have happened, it is a field day for speculation.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:48:58 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

At 11:38 AM 9/10/97 -0600, Glenn Hoppe wrote:
>John Macpherson wrote:
>> David Reed said:
>> > On Thursday, September 04, 1997 15:32, Erwin Fritz wrote:
>> > > Now, I'm not an economist, so forgive me if this idea sounds stupid.
>> >
>> > You're forgiven.  ;-)  I'm not an economist, either,
>>         Well, I _am_ and economist :-)

Hmmm.  I work for them, and explain mathematics to them.  Does that count?
 
>>         Inflation and deflation are actually very simple concepts and
>> their functioning in the economy is well understood.

With a bit of assumption fiddling, you can get different answers.  I
usually find those answers unsatisfying, but beware that using this model
will sometimes get you into discussion with people that seem totally
incomprehensible.  If this happens, question them about basic inflation,
deflation, and supply and demand, and see if they are using your model.

>> Example:
>>         Imagine an economy where the sum total of all goods are services
>> available is 10 coconuts.  In this economy there are also $10 which are
>> used as money. (You don't need money in an economy with only one good,
>> but I'm trying to be simple).  There are $10 and 10 coconuts, so each
>> dollar will be able to buy one coconut, and the price of a coconut will
>> be one dollar.
>>         What happens if someone discovers $10 in the sand?  Now we have
>> $20 and 10 coconuts.  The price of coconuts will be bid up to $2 and we
>> have inflation.
>>         What happens if $5 gets washed out to sea?  Now we have $5 and 10
>> coconuts.  The price of coconuts falls to .50c and we have deflation.

Watch this model when generalizing to a non static economy, where it is not
immediately obvious just how many coconuts are in circulation, which makes
it hard to know how much money should be out there as well.  The target of
"as much money as the economy needs to accomplish its goals" seems a good
one to me, but I am a monetarist.
 
>>         Both inflation and deflation are bad, especially if unexpected.
>> All the contracts, loans, price markings, etc. suddenly become out of
>> whack.  When there's lots of unpredictable inflation or deflation in the
>> economy it makes it difficult to plan ahead or make necessary
>> investments.

Yep.  Very true.

>>         What central banks need to do is keep the money supply matched up
>> with the amount of goods in the economy.  If the economy is growing at 2%
>> per annum, then the money supply should grow at 2% per annum.  This keeps
>> price levels where they were.

Depends on the philosophy of the central bank.  Some have believed that all
you need to do to have more prosperity is print more money.  this, in
theory, causes inflation, which wipes out loans, but makes it easier for
the new group of people earning salaries normed to the new worth of money
to buy the goods and services they need, at the cost of taking the services
away from people who earned at the older worth of money.

>This is a very interesting explanation. Just to throw a wrench into the
>works, let me bring up the topic of interest. Your explanation makes it
>clear to me how the concept of interest, especially evil compound
>interest, drives inflation.

Actually, interest is not evil, imho, just interest rates out of whack with
the actual amount of goods/services out there.  Interest needs to be paid,
so that money can be used.  For example, if the economy is growing at 3% a
year, this usually means that anyone with the money can invest in "the
economy", and get back 3% more on average as a result of the investment.

If you follow the monetarist beliefs, then if the economy is growing at 3%
a year, then a given dollar invested in generic business should produce 3$
of economic growth, paid for with the $3 of new money you printed.

>In a perfect world were coconuts are commodities and money is just a
>medium of exchange, interest would be noncentsical (sp?) <BG>

Not at all - invest your money in coconut hunters, and expect that 100$
would pay enough coconut hunters to find three new nuts in a year.  To keep
your life easy, you probably would need to pay the hunters $3 for their
coconuts...

>In the technologically and economically advanced Imperium, perhaps the
>whole notion of currency self-replication through compound interest
>would be seen as incredibly backward and barbaric. Would such a system
>even be viable in when information travel times are measured in weeks
>and months?

Certainly, but the rates would be low.  Low interest rates imply that one
needs to have a vast fortune at work in a lot of ways in order to produce a
comfortable living.  3% return on money implies that a noble living the
life of ten times the 10KCr average means an income of 100KCr/yr, and thus
investments of about 3.5MCr.

One point - your credit is only good at places that know you, and further,
they will usually demand that you bring in a draft from somewhere else
before they will accept your credit.  This returns us to the days when a
traveller carried a letter of introduction and a letter of credit from a
major banking family.  When they hit the new region, their new banker would
give them credit, based on the letter of introduction and the people they
knew, which meant that if they skipped, there would be either a minor
banker or a major banking family after them.  Since the minor banker will
only accept credit if they feel safe, it is usually the major banking
families that get screwed in the event of a forged letter of credit, and
thus they tend to have a lot of nasty friends to go get the money back.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:59:56 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Technobabble and Traveller GT, coming soon Traveller LS.

Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:15:32 -0500, David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
>As for GT not "invalidating" anything in the sense that MT/HT/TNE won't go
>away (already having been printed), true 'nough, ignoring the
>"assimilation effect" of GURPS (if there is one).  Perhaps Marc and
>company look on MT et al as "failed"

Perhaps I'm wrong.  But my impression was that he reason that
GURPS being set in an alternate timeline is that the Rebellion
is being reserved for T4 treatment in the future....

______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:28:20 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

Moin John Macpherson,

> 	There's only one problem.  There are now more coconuts in the 
> economy than before, so we are going to get deflation.  This is where the 
> Central Bank steps in and prints a few more dollars to correspond to the 
> new coconuts.  Creating exactly as many new dollars as there are new 
> coconuts keeps the price level constant.

	The next year the weather was very bad and a you have less
	coconuts, as its imposible to get the money back, you have
	inflation. Inflation is allways the sign the economic wave
	of this country is going down this time. ( It will go up
	next time, and new money is printed, and go down, and inflation
	occurs ;-)

	The only posibility for me to hold the 1000Cr per jump ton,
	is that the Imperial Credit is a virtual currency based on 
	interstellar transport defined as 1000Cr=1JumpTon, like our
	"Tide" we use in Bremen black market for about 10 years is
	based on 1 Tide = 1 Minutes. Call it Vilani thinking that
	never changed during the times.

	You can conquer Vland, but you'll become a Vilani is some
	generations. ( Vland ~ China ;-)
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:07:20 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Jump Torpedos

Moin Peter H. Brenton,

	be carefull its all my handwaving ;-)

> Well, I think jtorps would be the perfect replacement for xboats.

	Well I dont think that Roaches are a perfect replacement for
	XBoats. My 9dt Roach cost about 10MCr excluding computers,
	sensors and weapons. The first Roaches prototypes replaced
	the crew station of a Rampart with a small jump drive, and
	installed an egg in the computer, were even more expensive.

	"Kauffahrer und Kanonenboote" tells me that the XBoot also
	cost about 10MCr.  So Roaches are not cheaper and do not
	perform as good in information and package handling as the
	xboat. The maintaince of a Roach is even more expensive,
	as there is no maintaince during jump posible.

	The XBoat has the advantage of one human, and a small
	cargo space. So they perform better for a lower price.

	Of course jump torpedos are uncanon outside TNE. You can
	not build 9dt jumpable ship for a human. TNE had a lower
	jump fuel consume than CT, and no minimum jump drive limit
	in FFS ( call this bug a feature - call it a Roach ;-) 

> This can simply be the
> requirement of a human on-board any jump-capable ship to operate the jump
> drive, or astrogate through jump space in an ongoing fashion, performing
> some task that would require an AI computer.

	That was also my intension so I designed the Roaches as a
	parent strain ;-)

	take a look at :

	http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe/shipyard/gushemege/roach.html
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 18:13:54 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD) (long)

On 1997-09-10 20:24, Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@pinn.net> wrote the 
following:

>BTW, Harold made an interesting point about the multinationals.  long
>with our lawyers, they are the ones interested in world (cultural) 
>domination.  But what's wrong with that.

I really really really hope this was sarcasm.

There is a lot wrong with popular culture.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:06:12 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

At 07:10 PM 9/8/97 -0500, John Atkinson wrote:
>You wrote: 
>
>>Ah, the weapons in EA were designed using 3G3.
>
>The logic of which is simply astounding. . . 
>
>"Don't buy our products, they are no good.  Buy this other game 
>system's products."

Let me make one point a bit stronger here ->

3G3 was Greg Porter's.  It was out long before FF&S2.  A wise IG would have
contracted to own that system when they asked Greg to write EA, OR they
would have contracted with him to work on FF&S2 with various others before
contracting to write EA.

IG of a year ago was not wise enough to do that.  IG of a year ago was
essentially fired lock, stock, and barrel.

Now, IG of today has a problem.  Greg's rules are not compatible with
anything else, save the 3g3 system they came from, and IG is not allowed to
publish his system.  They need a system of some kind.

Further, there exists a large body of work from TNE that is also invalid
under 3g3.

The decision, which took a bit long to happen, was that they finally hired
someone to do FF&S2, and blessed it as the complete and actual system.
Now, they need only find some way to fix all of the copies of EA and SSC to
use the new information in FF&S2.

>If you're going to bill something as 'The most realistic, comprehensive 
>vehicle and equipment design system ever published for science-fiction 
>role-playing' (from the back of T4 FF&S) then it ought to be able to 
>build the equipment in at least the supplements for that game. . . 

If you are dumb enough to hire people to write equipment books without
being very clear about what system they should use, and that you get the
right to publish their system, you get what you deserve.  And they did -
the people who made this bonehead decision got fired.  Unfortunately, they
did not get fired before they ended up printing no less than three
supplements incompatible with the old FF&S, from which the new derived.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:59:50 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

At 01:04 AM 9/9/97 -0500, John Atkinson wrote:
>You wrote: 
>
>>No to interupt a perfectly good rant, but 3G3 and EA were both 
>designed by
>>Greg Porter, and both were released before FFS@ was written.
>
>I don't really follow 'industry personalities' (they don't follow me, 
>why should I follow them?) but I can tell the difference between a 
>product with a big honkin' 'T4 Marc Miller's Traveller' on the top and 
>one without.  If 'they' (meaning the yammerhead who made this winner of 
>a decision) intended for 3G3 to be the official small arms sequence, 
>then why in God's name would they put a totally different design 
>sequence in the book intended as the 'official' equipment design book?  
>Why not just say "buy friggin' 3G3 if you want to design sick small 
>arms like a full-auto 20mm ATR.[1]"??? 

Read the archives from the period.  Greg Porter was originally going to be
the equipment guru.  He decided to use 3g3 for all of his designs, and, it
was expected, he would also put together sequences for those things that
his system did not deal well with eventually.  It was expected by many,
including me, that there would be a re-issue of FF&S, as well as an
official release of QSDS and SSDS that were compatible with it, and vehicle
and equipment books that matched, as various things were rationalized
between the various systems.

Turned out that either IG was not willing to pay him enough, or he was not
willing to do all of the pieces of FF&S to make a consistent set of rules.
He did contribute a vehicle design system, and a number of weapons designed
using his won rules.  Since IG did not get the rights to the underlying
rules he used in 3g3, they could not exactly publish them as part of FF&S,
thus the official design sequences ended up being a bit different.

One argument for making FF&S closer to old TNE stats than Greg's stats was
that this way, the results will be similar to what the old supplements from
TNE and MT had, thus there was less of a break with the past.  Had IG used
a modified 3g3, this would not have been obviously the case.

Further, because of IG's rather confused stand on how to design rules, they
did not push the underlying system development hard enough until _after_ a
whole bunch of supplements were released with wildly different stuff in
them.  I do think this is a yammer head system, but there is not much that
can be done, as the IG management responsible for starting this debacle was
fired long ago,and now we are trying to sort out the debris.

It is my hope that a complete VDS, various vehicles from FF&S2, and
starship design systems like QSDS and SSDS will all be someday rationalized
with FF&S2.  You need to have a complicated system working for the people
who write the simple ones, else you get conflicts.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1808
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1809



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Traveller integrated timeline (finally)
MT resources
Mercs in the Imperium
France in 2300
Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)
T:2300 Sim
Setting the RPG market on fire
Re: Ship economics
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1808
Re: Jump torpedoes
Re: America 2300 ad
Re: T:2300 Sim
Re: Traveller integrated timeline (finally)
Re: France in 2300
X-boats and couriers
Re: Jump torpedoes
Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?
Re: Canon: the definition

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:39:18 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@cmi.csc.com>
Subject: Traveller integrated timeline (finally)

Well, catching up on TML back digests and seeing my timeline mentioned
again on the TML reminds me (through the piles of work - everyone else
in my department at my company resigned a month ago, and I'm now a
one-man band).  I've got a MAJOR revision to the stuff currently on my
website on my laptop, and I need some help.

Now, many of you have helped me put this together, esp. by typing stuff
in for me; I can't tell you how you've all helped.  However, there's two
pieces remaining:

a)	The list of materials lacking references in the database...
	(I'll put these at the end of the message, for everyone's sanity)

b)	A review of the timeline, by "concerned" individuals, especially
	anyone interested in the E21/Interstellar War discussions, or the
	unsupported milleu.  I haven't incorporated T4 material in here,
	as my copies of First Survey and Milleu Zero (great, I don't even
	remember titles) wandered away from me at a recent gaming 
	convention...  I need people willing to verify the content, so
	please contact me...

What this means is, is that if you've supported this effort, you'll be 
receiving a "big" e-mail shortly, of the whole thing, with the expectation
that you'll make sure I didn't screw something up...

Thanks for the help,


DonM.


Appendix A - Missing Materials...

1)	Missing GDW materials:
	Arrival Vengeance
	Assignment Vigilante
	Astrogator's Guide to the Diaspora Sector
	Challenge:	#25-26, #36-38, #40-43, #45, #47-59, #61-67, #69,
			#72-74
	Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium
	Fifth Frontier War
	Hard Times
	JTAS:	#1-2, #4, #7
	Knightfall
	Striker

2)	Missing DGP materials:
	101 Robots
	Flaming Eye
	Vilani and Vargr
	Solomani and Aslan
	Starship Operator's Manual
	TD:	#1, #2, #3, #4 (although I have Early Adventures)

3)	Examine the computer games "Zhodani Consipracy" and "Quest for the
	Ancients" for additional information...

4)	Missing FASA materials:
	Action Aboard
	Adventure Class Ships (Vols. 1 and 2)
	Aslan Mercenary Ships
	Far Traveller:	all
	High Passage:	all
	ISCV: King Richard
	ISCV: Leander
	ISPMV: Fenris
	ISPMV: Tethys
	Merchant Class Ships
	Rescue on Galatea
	SPV: Valkyrie
	Starport Modules #1 and #2
	FCI Consumer Guide
	The Harrensa Project/The Stazhlekh Report
	ZISMV: Vlezhdatl

5)	Missing Gamelords materials:
	Pilot's Guide to the Caledon Subsector
	Startown Liberty
	The Desert Environment
	The Mountain Environment
	The Undersea Environment
	Wanted: Adventurers
	
6)	Missing Marischal materials:
	Fleetwatch
	Flight of the Stag
	Salvage Mission
	Trading Team

7)	Missing Seeker materials:
	Escape
	Gazelle Class Close Escort
	Merchant Class Ships, Vol #1 (is this related to the FASA product?)
	Module 1 - the Corporation
	Module 2 - the Research Facility
	Module 3 - Merchant Class Ships

8)	All Group One and Judges Guild products, for completeness, and 
	perhaps a consideration of the Star Quest and Warfield products...

Thanks for your patience with this long posting...
- --
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist,           (217) 351-8250 x2365 = 
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL        dmckinne@cmi.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998    =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org       (217) 469-9917 = 
============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:06:25 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: MT resources

	HALP!

	TML'er and my fave in-game target of plot abuse Ross Coburn is
trying to dig up a comprehensive set of online MegaTraveller resources.
He's having connect problems.  If anyone out there with MT pages or any
other MT material can email me, I'll refer it to him.

	Thanks.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:18:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Mercs in the Imperium

     Someone posted about their group buying a Merc license, well here's my
fast take on how I did it ages ago:

     First off the group needs to apply for an IMPERIAL license (which for
one means they need to live by the Imperial rules of war of course).
     Secondly, the type of license they get would depend on whether they are
a contracting group (i.e. middlemen/brokers) or an actual "mercenary" group
(and what the size of the group is, squad size, platoon size, battalion
size).
      As middlemen they can get a license to acquire any weapons their
"subcontractors" might need (up to the limits of the size of the group of
course).
      As an actual fighting unit, their size dictates what grade of weapons
they can get. For instance a squad size group might be limited to weapons
equivalent to HMG's or less and a light recon vehicle maybe, maybe light
battledress or combat armor depending on the mission/job. A platoon could
maybe do APC's and squad support heavy weapons, Plasma and/or Fusion guns. A
battallion could pretty much get anything depending on the type it is,
mechanized, armored, what have you.
     The fighting groups need to show proof of experience (i.e. they need at
least 1 term of training in armed forces somewhere).

      The above of course presumes a ground fighting unit or bodyguards or
whatever. The rules would be somewhat different for a naval unit of course
(space or wet). And different again for a COACC unit.

      In your case if you wanted to pull the license, it's easy, the clerk
saw this group as an obvious fraud, but wanted the money, so he strung them
along by the nose and gave them a fake license (hey they never knew what a
real one looked like, right?). On top of that he taped the deal so he can
always blackmail them to keep them quiet if they come hunting for him. And of
course when they try to turn him in, he just denies he ever saw them (plus he
just got transferred elsewhere of course).

Bryan Borich

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:35:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: France in 2300

     Actually the French sitting out WWIII is/was a realistic scenario, so
the French becoming dominent in 2300 could happen.
     Sources for this include a book written by the head of NATO forces at
one time (can't quite remember the generals name offhand), but the book title
was World War III or something close to that. It was a good read (although
the French did decide to join in as far as the book went, but it was touch
and go). I believe it was probably included in various war scenarios.
     Also France had to a certain extent pulled out of NATO (at least to the
degree that they wanted to retain control of their nukes and armed forces).

Bryan Borich

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:13:24 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: The Gateway Book - Replies to Various Comments (LONG)

> In mail you write:
> 
> >> >Originally, 3G3 was _supposed_ to be the weapons design system for T4, 
> Whoa! 
> 
> You seem to have read his comment as "3G3 was designed to be the
> weapons system for T4". That's *not* what he said.
> 
> Try reading it as "the original intent of the IG was to use 3G3 as the
> weapons design system for T4".

Wow, you make one statement and everybody on your back like you committed
the original sin.  It looks people have mistaken my statement, perhaps I
should of written
"Originally a hidden design tool for the 2nd edition TIMELORDS rgp",   as
it is stated in the 3G3 pg1. 
  Yes I did read it as "3G3 was designed to be the weapons system for
T4",and I dont think that T4 and 3G3 work well together because of the
potential for player abuse, due to the wide spead in DV's between Traveller
penetration values.  I wasn't getting down on Greg, I thing 3G3 is next
best thing next to sliced bread. IMHO 

And someone else put
>"And 3G3 is _not_ "Timelords" with other conversions...it has _always_ been
> a multi-system book, 

I agree it is a multi-system but only because it comes with conversions to
other systems due to its large following. 

>"it's just that it uses Timelords states as it's native units."   

I was going to say"Its like writing a program in dos and saying it's not
really written for dos but all languages with conversions", but I realized
this was not correct, it was more correct to say"That Time Lords was
written to suit 3G(as I don't have the fist edition of time Lords to state
otherwise.) 
  
As for the originally post goes,  my mail only goes back to the 10th
because I had to reinstall my system....Win95......fun....5 times in 24
hours, just for and IRQ conflict.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:33:18 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: "Valerian J. Vortex" <s321874@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: T:2300 Sim

Having had access to the T:2300 boxed set, I was always intrigued by the
concept that the T:2300 world was the result of a simulation played out
against the aftermath of T:2000.

Of course the next question is begging...

Is it possible to get a copy of this simulation????
(Assuming that it had reliable rules, and was not the result of some
fudged free-form role-playing.)

Ken Barns,
ex-Medical Student and Connoisseur of Life.

=============================================================

       "Life's tough...  SO WHAT??" - Angry Anderson
   
=============================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:23:44 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Setting the RPG market on fire

> RPG market on fire

Traveller never caught fire in the RPG market after CT because It stuck to
its guns as a hard-science, realistic (compared to most systems) RPG and
didn't opt for the string of fads that swept through the RPG market - like
cyberpunk, horror etc.. ...and the biggest fad of all - trading card
games. 
	Even the 'generic' GURPS adapts to the fads to survive... when was
the last time a fantasy GURPS book came out? No its robots, mecha, a bit
of horror and cyberpunk thrown in etc.. etc.. right now. 

	Traveller also has the habit of scaring non-technically minded
folk away, each addition adding something new to play with. All my pals
see the pages of tables and freak out, while I insist that most of the
tables are for designing things and for my frustration only :). Of course
they'll still toss GURPS out the window in favour of MT or TNE (the two
systems I own) because they realise that a high-tech game system looks
even more high-tech with some complex rules (because complex rules are
- -supposed to be- more accurate). It also means a more balanced game
because they take a little longer to figure out how to screw the system.
	Of course if you resent complex, accurate, stable high-tech game
systems just buy Rifts instead (which sells in bucketloads mind you) :P 
 
						David Moodie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 04:32:36 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ship economics

John Macpherson writes:
>(1)  What design system did you use for the ships and did you give them 
>any kind of "mass production" discount like that given QSDS ships?

I used QSDS1.5 and gave the ships a 25% discount.
 
>(2)  Why did you choose 3% as the "fair profit" on the ship owner's 
>investment?  Why does his investment get a lower return than the banks?  

He dosen't. The 6.25% the bank gets include repayment of the loan. After
40 years the owner owns the ship (which will by then be worth 25% of its
original price, according to a TD or MTJ Q&A). I've been informed that
it works out at a rate of return very close to 3% (I don't know how to
calculate such things, so I haven't checked it myself).

>The ship owner, as the entrepreneur, is taking a much greater risk than 
>the bank.  After all, the bank can always reposses the ship to recover 
>its money, but he will not get his 20% back.  Riskier investments require 
>higher rates of return.  For simplicity, I would make the "fair profit" 
>and the interest on the bank loan the same.

It can be argued either way. That's what I did in the first version and 
that was when I was told that the bank only gets about 3% interest.
 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:33:24 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1808

> 3g3 / FF&S2 inconsistencies

Well if IG screwed up, then they should publish a fix like TNE did with
'putting the heat back into plasma' where all books published afterwards
had either corrected weapons or fixing notes... while your at it IG you
can fix all the other mistakes in your books too :). How 'bout an errata
book containing all the fixes for all the books currently in print and any
errors they plan to put in the next book %) 

						D.Moodie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 04:55:56 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump torpedoes

Peter H. Brenton writes:
>Well, I think jtorps would be the perfect replacement for xboats.  They
>both require a tender for pickup, face the same likelihoods of misjump or
>problems, and jtorps are much cheaper to operate and build.  As for the
>integrity or security of the data, hight ech means of encryption and
>one-off passwords will prevent most jtorps from being hijacked for their
>information, and the rest will make for good adventure scenarios.

The Rancke Jump Torpedo (tm applied for) requires a brand of jump
capacitor that isn't invented until around 1080 (the same capacitor that
allows drop tanks). Given the massive investment in X-boats and the
associated vested interests then replacing them with jump torpedoes
might be delayed by political factors. However, if you postulate a
slight chance of misjumping (say, occasional jump field fluctuations
that can easily be corrected by an onboard engineer, but proves fatal
to a jump torpedo), something like 1 chance in 36, then the losses will
prevent an X-torp network (35 in 36 are good odds if you are sending off
an emergency message, but the losses if they were employed on a regular
basis would make the network more expensive than a X-boat network).
 
>As far as military applications, I see a message torp from a scout about to
>be destroyed by a previously unknown squadron being an invaluable piece of
>intelligence data.  The scout may not be able to jump due to fuel shortage,
>damage, or other considerations (perhaps there is a chance of success in
>battle, but the torp will hedge the captain's bets).  

Employing a Rancke Jump Torpedo entails putting it outside the ship,
unfolding the jump grid, generating a jump solution, and feeding it to
the torpedo. Doing that while you were in battle could be tricky. Worse,
the parent ship has to expend enough of its own fuel to power the jump.
A scout captain might be reluctant to do that.

>Again, hightech, relatively foolproof security arrangements will prevent 
>the info or torp from falling into the wrong hannds (but may prevent the 
>info from getting into the right hands as well). And those situations 
>outside the normal course of events are good adventure seeds.
> 
>Unfortunately, due to all of this, the existence and use of message torps
>is a real canon breaker and I think they should be prevented from the realm
>of possibility until say (late) TL15 or TL16.  

Not so much late any TL, but late historically. Which would be completely in 
accord with canon (So far. I'm waiting for the day some M:0 author or ship 
designer decides to use a drop tank. That _will_ be a canon breaker (Did
FF&S2 say anything about drop tanks, btw?)).



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:17:42 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: America 2300 ad

Douglas E. Berry writes:
>The United States was nuked in 1997, invaded by Mexico and the Soviet 
>Divison Cuba, and had a three way civil war going with the majority of 
>its military stranded overseas.

The three way civil war is the real killer. With that you can justify any
outcome, from a complete recovery (well, you bounced back pretty well from
the First Civil War, right?) down to the complete disappearance of the US 
as a political entity. Making the US a second rate power is just about the 
middle of the range.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:41:03 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: T:2300 Sim

At 12:33 PM 9/12/97 +1000, you wrote:
>
>Having had access to the T:2300 boxed set, I was always intrigued by the
>concept that the T:2300 world was the result of a simulation played out
>against the aftermath of T:2000.
>
>Of course the next question is begging...
>
>Is it possible to get a copy of this simulation????
>(Assuming that it had reliable rules, and was not the result of some
>fudged free-form role-playing.)

Oh, Loren......

I always wondered, who played France?
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:35:58 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller integrated timeline (finally)

At 07:39 PM 9/11/97 CDT, you wrote:

>What this means is, is that if you've supported this effort, you'll be 
>receiving a "big" e-mail shortly, of the whole thing, with the expectation
>that you'll make sure I didn't screw something up...
>
>Thanks for the help,

This is what I know that I have:

>1)	Missing GDW materials:
>	Arrival Vengeance
>	Assignment Vigilante
>	Astrogator's Guide to the Diaspora Sector
>	Challenge:	#25-26, #36-38, #40-43, #45, #47-59, #61-67, #69,
>			#72-74
>       JTAS:	 #7
>	Striker
>
>2)	Missing DGP materials:

>	Flaming Eye
>	Vilani and Vargr
>	Solomani and Aslan

>4)	Missing FASA materials:
>	Action Aboard

>5)	Missing Gamelords materials:

>	Startown Liberty
>	The Desert Environment
>	The Mountain Environment
>	The Undersea Environment

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:26:34 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: France in 2300

At 09:35 PM 9/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>     Actually the French sitting out WWIII is/was a realistic scenario, so
>the French becoming dominent in 2300 could happen.
>     Sources for this include a book written by the head of NATO forces at
>one time (can't quite remember the generals name offhand), but the book title
>was World War III or something close to that. It was a good read (although
>the French did decide to join in as far as the book went, but it was touch
>and go). I believe it was probably included in various war scenarios.
>     Also France had to a certain extent pulled out of NATO (at least to the
>degree that they wanted to retain control of their nukes and armed forces).

"The Third World War" by Gen Sir John Hackett, IIRC.

This book provided the basis for Harold Coyle's "Team Yankee."
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:45:22 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: X-boats and couriers

Peter H. Brenton writes:
>I believe that the Megatraveller Encyclopedia repeated that trend, but I
>may be wrong.  In any case, a jump 6 xboat network invalidates the cute
>little trick in the rebellion era when Norris knew of the assassination of
>Strephon before the rest of the domain.  This occurred, according to, I
>think, The Rebellion Sourcebook, through the use of the Imperiallines
>covert imperial courier ships which *were* J6.

Unfortunately, common sense invalidates that little trick anyway. A jump-6
courier is expensive, but only compared to ordinary folks. A number of
Imperial organisations and a number of private organisations (the 14
Megacorporations for a start) can afford to maintain a few couriers out
of petty cash. Even mere sectorwide companies and the local rulers of
high-population planets can afford them. And getting fast and accurate
information from the center of the Imperium is sufficiently valuable
that almost all of them would have such couriers on standby. Thus while
even Megacorporations may be content with relying on the X-boat Network
for regional communication, any monumental news from Capital would go out
to all these organisations by jump-6. Thus the news of Strephon's death
would be recieved at about the same time by the Spinward Marches heads 
of the Army, Navy, Marines, Scouts, and Civil Service, the regional
managers of all 14 Megacorporations, the General Manager of Al Morai and
I don't know how many other sector-wide companies, Duchess Delphine, the
Dukes of Glisten and Rhylanor, and propably several other dukes, in
addition to Norris.

Now, each of them would recieve the news in a secret, coded message, of
course, but how many of you think that all these people would be able to
keep something like that a secret? How many of you think that all of
them would even want to?

And then there's one kind of organisation with the money to pay for
couriers that I haven't mentioned above: The Traveller News Service and
any rival sector-wide information services there may be...
 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:17:49 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump torpedoes

Harold Hale writes:
>   This would not prohibit some techie down at the nearest Imperial
>naval depot from proposing jump torepedos, and perhaps talking the
>Imperial Navy into constructing a number of prototypes (perhaps even
>enough to equip Leviathan) to see how they work as a real weapon. 
>Having proven once again their impracticality (you have to figure this
>happens every few hundred years or whenever there is an increase in TL),

No you don't. If we assume jump torpedoes of the kind I've suggested
(essentially a jump drive with an unfolding jump grid) then the type
of jump capacitor used before ca. 1080 wouldn't allow jump torpedoes
(though you mustn't ask me just what the difference is between pre-1080
jump capacitors IS; I've never been able to come up with a good answer). 

>the jump torpedos are disassembled and the project scrapped.

Jump torpedoes may be useful enough, but if the earliest prototypes aren't
developed until around 1105, then they may not be ready for deployment to
the whole navy before the Rebellion breaks out. Remember, a jump-6 torpedo 
would take up a minimum of more than 7 T and would require a jump-6 ship to 
send it off.
 
>   Now jump torpedos as a *means of communication* have some merit.  I
>seriously doubt you could convince someone after 1130 that they are a
>good idea, but prior to that they would prove a cheaper alternative to
>sending an X-boat.  

Unless they have a small chance of misjumping each time it is used.

>On the other hand, they would have the same problems that all systems 
>without a human in loop have--what if something unexpected happens?  

You kiss a MCr30+ torpedo goodbye. Acceptable if losses are almost non-
existent, otherwise not.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:18:12 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?

> If _I_ remember right, there were two types of XBoats (in 1116).
> 
> - The standard ones, which everyone knew about and used - these were Jump-4.
> 
> - The secret ones, which only high level government people knew about.
> These were Jump-6, and were (for eg) how Noris knew about the assassination
> before the general public did.

Let's quote the Rebellion Sourcebook, shall we?

<quote>

The standard xboat routes are travelled at jump-4 -- four parsecs per week.
A message from Capital will reach Vland in 19 weeks; it will reach the
Spinward Marches in 51 weeks.

Speeds greater than jump-4 are available, but they are increasingly more
expensive at jump-5 and jump-6 (speeds greater than jump-6 are
theoretically impossible). The cost of a jump-6 xboat network is high
enough to make a universal jump-6 xboat network inefficient. But there is
another reason. Because knowledge is power, the Imperial government
realized long ago that establishing a jump-5 or jump-6 network would mean
giving up the ability to receive information early. Knowing vital facts
before they become general knowledge is essential to a well-run bureacracy.
...

Two distinct, partially duplicated, jump-6 networks are maintained by the
Imperium: the Naval Couriers, and the Imperiallines Signal TJ System.

Naval Couriers: The Imperial Navy maintains a force of jump-6 ships which
represent the best technology the Imperium can buy. Theoretically part of
the Imperial Navy's force structure, Fleet Couriers are carried on the
rolls as tactical couriers which relay information between squadrons of the
fleet. ...

Naval Couriers carry dispatches fo the navy and for the Imperial
bureacracy. Couriers can carry a few tons of cargo, and maybe a passenger
or two, but their primary function, like xboats, is to carry information.
...

Imperiallines Signal TJ System: Imperiallines is a tramp freighter operator
with trade stations located in many type C starports througout the
Imperium. ...

Imperiallines is owned, through a morass of untraceable interlocking
companies and holders, by the Office of Personal Transportation of the
Imperial Household. Although a profit-making enterprise in its own right,
Imperiallines is the Emperor's own secret courier network.

The company's fleet is ostensibly composed of hundreds of jump-2 type TI
Frontier Transports. Each 2000-ton ship carries about 1100 tons of cargo.
Actually, about half of the ships are a variant jump-6 type TJ. Externally
identical to the type TI, the type TJs carry less than 300 tons of cargo
and load more fuel. ...
</quote>

I don't think the naval couriers are xboats, and I am certain the TJs
aren't. So I don't believe there really were any jump-6 xboats, as such.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:51:16 -0400
From: Wesley Esser <wesley@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Subject: Re: Canon: the definition

Leroy William Lu Guatney wrote:

...lotsa stuff about what "canon" means snipped...
> 
> Whoever coined the usage of "canon" to describe the language of TML either
> didn't know just _how_ telling that was, or they set you all up.

As I recall, when the term started being used several years back it
started as much as a joke as anything.  And we ALL understood what it
meant in RealLife (tm) - our use was as a shorthand for an internally
consistent background, i.e, the Third Imperium.  The fact that you
assume we are all such dolts as to not understand what canon means -
well, perhaps that is why your posts have raised so much ire.  My
observation of the TML is that it is a highly literate bunch of folks
who are attuned to subtle shades of meaning.  Often, the condescension
in your tone is so blatant that it becomes virtually impossible to see
any of the interesting points you raise.

Wes

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1809
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1810



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Plague of Duskir
Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)
Historical events

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:06:23 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Plague of Duskir

Phillip McGregor writes
>>>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> 
><stuff on problems with canon snipped>
> 
>>Considering the number of different people involved and the amount of 
>>material that has been produced, I think that until the recent 
>>controversial T4 material things weren't all that bad. It is, I think, 
>>impossible for anyone to keep everything straight when so many people 
>>work on something for so many years, but that dosen't mean one shouldn't 
>>try as hard as possible to eliminate mistakes. Just the opposite, in fact.
> 
>It's called "continuity" and they do it (mostly) pretty successfully in 
>ongoing TV series and movies. 

I was tempted to offer to produce examples of continuity glitches in any
reasonably long TV series you'd care to mention, but I suppose that it
must be possible to come up with one or two where they've managed to 
avoid them. I can't think of any off-hand, but then, we don't get them
all here in Denmark.

>Everyone who wants to write something for the show is given a special 
>writer's guideline book that has all the official "canon" for said show 
>in it -- and this is (in theory) kept constantly updated.

It is certainly something that would help a lot, and I remember that
something just like that was proposed a few weeks ago. Still, you ignored
my point: The fact that continuity control is less than perfect in
connection with the Traveller universe is no reason to give up altogether.
Quite the contary, as I said. 

>>I don't care a stuffed owl for how many years ago it is. If I, a properly
>>authorized referee (I bought the books, that makes me authorized ;-), is
>>informed of a fact by the creators of the game background, then that fact
>>should stay a fact. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the historical
>>process we know of in the real world. This history is being created, not
>>observed and recorded.
> 
>But, of course, this is wishful thinking. Traveller "canon" has always been
>mutable at best. 

The fact that previous authors have introduced continuity glitches is not,
IMO, a reason to consider such glitches anything but something to be
avoided.

>And look at the Santanocheev affair -- everyone thinks (officially) that 
>he's hot stuff because of his careful media management, but he's 
>(allegedly -- according to Norris) a total incompetent. 

Also according to authorial sources.

>In 2000 years time (from then) someone could come across the post Virus 
>remnants of what passes for the records of the period and finds only the 
>bits telling what a great job Santanocheev was doing? He immediately 
>writes a book on this "great man" -- and naysayers from what was once the 
>Regency would have a hard time proving anything different amongst some 
>elements of the populace. Voila, a *factoid* is born!

I totally fail to see any relevance to that. Any Traveller fan with access
to the CT material will be able to find out the canonical truth. 
Santanocheev was an incompetent. A future adventure module based on the 
publication of the biography: "Santanocheev  --  Hero of the 5th Frontier
War" would not conflict with this previously published material (the
canonical truth about the biography would just be that it was wrong), but 
an  adventure module based on the factual exploits of Santanocheev, hero of 
the 5th Frontier War, would be. 
 
>>>So, you still believe in Solar Powered multiple JDrives (Annic Nova) 
>>
>>Advanced super-science by an unknown race. Yep. That I'll accept. There is
>>another example of such a ship in _Secret of the Ancients_ (well, it carried
>>around a lifetime supply of fuel in a pocket universe. Perhaps the Annic
>>Nova does the same.)
> 
>Unfortunately Annic Nova was simply from the Julian Protectorate. 

From what canonical publication did you get that interesting bit of 
information? As far as I know the origin of Annic Nova is and have always
been a mystery.
 
>The possibilities were (presumably) too unsettling of what the designers 
>*later* decided they wanted, so they conveniently ignored it thereafter. 
>But Annic Nova was an official GDW publication in the 3 little black book 
>days!

So what? I've never said that canon hasen't changed or even that there are
bits that should be changed. I just say that it should be changed as little
as possible and only if it actually corrects a genuine inconsistency.
 
>>>and Jump Torpedoes (Leviathan?). 
>>
>>I guess you don't recall that I designed a workable jump torpedo the last
>>time that particular bit of canon was discussed.
> 
>Was it under 10 tons in displacement mass? 

Essentially it was a jump drive with a collapsible jump grid framework that 
could be extended to cover 100 T. It was energized by the parent ship and
then pushed away from it in the same grace period between the capacitors
are charged and has to be discharged that is used in connection with drop 
tanks. (Presumably that means that jump torpedoes can't be built until
the brand of capacitors that allow drop tanks are invented around 1080). 

>>They still are as far as I am concerned. But I'll agree with your basic
>>point. Keeping canon straight is important IMO, but it is not the only
>>important thing. Internal consistency and playability are even more
>>important. 
> 
>But they *aren't*, officially! So, you accept the parts of canon that you 
>like and reject those that you don't like -- and you accept *official* 
>revisions to canon if you like them, but reject them if you don't? Look, 
>I'm not objecting to that sort of position -- its where *I'm* coming from 
>myself. But, like they say, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the 
>gander!

Look, if someone some day publishes a canonical adventure set on Tobia in 
1122 complete with arrogant _ihatei_ masters swaggering along the Tobian
streets and brave resistance fighters struggling to throw off the Aslan
yoke, then I won't be able to use it, because in my opinion the Aslan
_ihatei_ would never be able to conquer Tobia in a month of Sundays.
Therefor I want IG to changes those parts of canon that dosen't make
sense. OTOH, if I've run an adventure for my players based on the 
revenge Santanocheev tried to take over Norris in 1116 and then IG
publishes an adventure that reveals that Santanocheev never existed, then
I won't be able to use that, irregardless of its other merits. Therefor I 
want them to refrain from changing canon unless they have a damn good
reason. No matter how good the 'No Santanocheev' scenario is, it dosen't
matter, because I can't _use_ the damn thing. Even if the story is much
more plausible and hangs together much better and makes for a whale of
an adventure I CAN'T USE THE DAMN THING. So changing canon merely to make
a more plausible story is a Bad Thing. Changing canon to eliminate
impossibilities is a Good Thing. 

>>>And you accept the revisionistic nature of claims about the nature of TL16
>>>Darrian tech in the Regency Handbook. 
>>
>>No, I don't. That is just exactly an example of what I don't like to see.
>>It invalidate previously published material without adding anything
>>important to compensate.
> 
>See above. Gateway does the same. Which is where the argument started.

See my reply in a previous posting to this exact same point (Oh, OK, I'll
save you the trouble: If _Gateway_ breaks canon then it it Bad, but I'm
arguing about whether the PoD makes sense, not whether _Gateway_ makes
sense.)

If you want to argue about _Gateway_, then argue with someone else. If you
want to argue about the Plague of Duskir then leave _Gateway_ out of it.

>>Of course not. But if one of the creators of the game background states that
>>that's the way it is, then we should take him seriously. And so should every
>>later creator.
> 
>But the games creators have contradicted themselves over and over in important
>areas. What it boils down to is that *you* agree with them when it suits your
>purposes and *disagree* with them when it doesn't. 

You could put it that way. What I like to believe is that it suits my
purpose to agree with them when they make reasonable changes and to
disagree with them when they make unreasonable choices. In which case
the argument is back to whether the Plague of Duskir makes sense or not.

>Fine, that's *exactly* what I am doing -- it's just that *my* way of 
>looking at these things doesn't agree with yours (or "canon"), but 
>*yours* doesn't necessarily do so either!

My way of looking at things most certainly dosen't agree with canon in all
matters, nor have I ever claimed it did. What I want from a Traveller
fact is 1) that it makes sense and 2) dosen't disagree with previously
published material UNLESS the PPM didn't make sense. Which means that 
ideally it dosen't have anything to do with preferrences but with
objective criteria; ie. 'Does it make sense?' and 'Does it contradict
PPM and, if it does, did the PPM make sense?'

Of course, things aren't that cut and dried, becuse sometimes whether
something makes sense depends on preferrences, and when that happens the
best one can hope to get out of a discussion is an agreement to
disagree  --  which is fine by me. If you say that you don't believe
in the PoD because you prefer to believe that at TL 12 medicine will
be able to cure everything quickly and cheaply, then that's perfectly
OK by me. But if you say that you don't like it because it is obvious
that at TL 12 every disease will be curable, then I feel fully entitled
to point out to you that it is not obvious to me. And if you back your
opinion with other facts that I don't think are true facts, then I feel
free to point that out too. Fair enough?

>What I am trying to say -- and, OK, you reject the idea ... fine, I can live
>with it -- is that it is obvious that the authors have revised canon in all
>sorts of areas on an ongoing basis to suit their changing world view. 

Really? To me it is obvious that up to T4, and with the single exception 
of rules mechanics, the authors have tried their best to keep to a consistent 
background (and occasionally failed). I'd very much like to hear examples
of deliberate changes in the background unconnected with rules changes.
I'm sure you can come up with examples of mistakes, even inexcusable
mistakes, but deliberate changes? Roll them out.

>And, of course, *nothing* about Traveller has been changed since the 
>Traveller #1 release in 1977 or so? Obviously not so! 

Of course not.

>It's just that you seem to prefer not to accept some of those changes, 
>while accepting others. 

Of course. I accept necessary changes that makes sense and deplore
unnecessary changes whether they make sense or not. I also deplore failure
to make necessary changes. 

>Like I said, fine, I have no problem with it -- but allow *me* to do the 
>same! Fair's fair!

I wasn't aware that I had any way of preventing you, much less of trying
to do so. All I'm doing is to discuss whether the PoD is one of those
changes that needs to be made or not. Fair enough?
 
>So it boils down to "I accept some things that suit me and reject others." 
>Like I said, I can live with it.

Let's agree that we both have the right to accept what suits us and reject
what dosen't, OK? Good. Now, can we go on to discuss the thing I have been
discussing all along, namely whether the PoD makes sense the way it is
presented and, if not, the least disturbing adjustment necessary?

>>I hope I manage to state it clearly enough this time: _The diseases that 
>>killed the Vilani were not dangerous to the Terrans_.
> 
>You know this for a fact? 

Yes, of course. The diseases were carried to the Vilani worlds by Terrans.
You don't carry a disease from one world to another if you actually suffer 
from it. That's what being a carrier is all about. Think of the Terrans as 
thousands of Thyphoid Marys and you may get the idea. 

>You know exactly *what* diseases constituted the PoD?

No, of course not. For one thing, they haven't evolved yet. For another,
they don't affect Terrans, so we wouldn't recognize then if we saw them.
For a third, it is a mistake to get too detailed about such things. It
only gives people who know something about the subject an opportunity
to pick holes.

>I don't think it actually details this *anywhere*. In other words, *in your
>opinion* this is the case, but you don't have any solid facts for this -- OK,
>*in my opinion* it is *not* the case, and I have just as many facts backing 
>my opinion up!

No, you have one less fact backing you up than I have: I have a canonical
statement of the effects of the disease. If things were the way you claim,
then that statement would be wrong. Ergo, things can't be the way you
claim. That's logic, innit?

I'm being half serious here. IMO canon changes should be limited to where
they are unavoidable. If by assuming that things are a certain way (and
the assumptions are not themselves impossible) we can make things work out
the canonical way, then we should assume that things are that way.

(I also have the following statement taken from TD#20:) 

"...The Plague [of Duskir] was a complex infection caused by a combination of
microorganisms common to the Solomani, including yeast, staphylococci,
digestive bacteria, and veneral disease."

>>Yes, that is exactly what is claimed by the canonical references. That the
>>Vilani were killed by diseases that didn't affect the Terrans. Digestive
>>bacteria are even mentioned as one of the components.
> 
>Assuming that this is true, then so what? Digestive bacteria, as I have 
>pointed out *are* affected by available antibiotics and have not become 
>resistant.

Again, if a certain assumption is necessary to explain a canonical fact,
then that assumption should be made. Digestive bacteria today are affected 
by present-day antibiotica. That is no proof that all digestive bacteria
of centuries to come will be affected by antibiotica of the future. And
if you can't _prove_ that they would be affected (and how in the world
would you prove that?) then you can't disprove that they wouldn't.

>>The Plague of Duskir was long before the collapse. TD#20 says that the most
>>famous of these diseases, the Plague of Duskir, occurred in the wake of
>>advancing Solomani troops. It also refer to other infections brought by
>>Terran PoWs and by Solomani settlers._Rats&Cats_ claim that the PoD came
>>from the settlers. But in any case it was something that happened early on.
> 
>Which makes it even less likely that the Terrans would be unprepared. And, of
>course, the PoD was the worst -- and its death rates were ridiculously low!

Actually, it dosen't say that it was the worst, just that it was the most
famous. That's a distinction that you should appreciate.

>>Actually, there is. Transporting wealth between worlds takes cargo space. It
>>is actually much better for a Terran immigrant to  be able to take over an
>>empty appartment and a vacant job than to start with just what he could
>>carry along with him on the trip. (Actually, many Terrans propably stole
>>(in the most legal way possibly, of course) what they needed to establish
>>themselves. If their Vilani victims resisted that actively, getting rid of
>>some of them could be an attractive option. It's a vile idea, but people
>>have an amazing ability to rationalize vile ideas. 
> 
>This simply doesn't make sense. Economically or morally.

It makes good sense economically to steal if you have the strength. As for
moral sense, what of it? How much moral sense does slavery and the Spanish
Inquisition make to us? Yet they made perfectly good sense to some people
long ago.

>>On most planets you may well be right, but it is said that on some planets 
>>(ie. more than one) the deaths killed off enough Vilani to leave the Terran 
>>immigrants in the majority. I should think that this would be on planets
>>close to Terra, where the logistics of space travel would allow the Terrans
>>to immigrate in larger than average numbers. This would both introduce more
>>disease carriers and mean that fewer Vilani need to die before the Terrans
>>become the majority.
> 
>Actually, it is unlikely that your guess is correct. These planets would be
>closer to help, assuming that it is really all that difficult to program a
>factory computer to produce the machinery to produce antibiotics and 
>antivirals.

The closest planet is four weeks away from Earth. A lot of people can die in
four weeks.

>Sorry, if we assume that this sort of thing was spread out wherever the 
>Terrans went, the worlds that suffered are likely to have been the hi-pop 
>worlds. Given that the population of the ZS was probably comparable to that 
>of the 3I (say between 1/3 and 1/2 ... though I personally suspect it would 
>be closer to 2/3), 

It's not a given that I'm prepared to accept. We have no real knowledge
about Siru Zirka population distribution. In fact, my pet theory is that
by far the majority of Vilani-settled planets were of medium population.

>then we have a situation where the 10000 worlds (I worked this out a while 
>ago) something on the order of 300 to 500 billion people, mostly 
>concentrated on the hi-pop worlds. So we have 1 billion people die in the 
>PoD. That's 0.2 to 0.33% of the ZS's population. The Spanish Flu killed 20 
>million or so (records are understandably sketchy for the less advanced 
>parts of the world) and is the worst plague *ever* ... the world population 
>was around 1.2 billion at the time, which means that *it* killed a bit over 
>1.5% of world population. How many people of the "man in the street" sort 
>have even heard of it these days? Or know how many died? Or know how 
>relatively insignificant it was?

Which should suggest to you that the actual percentage of deaths is not the
most important factor in what gets remembered and what does not. You just
said that the Spanish Flu was the worst plague ever. That means that the
Black Death was not the worst ever, yet everybody I know has heard of it.
 
>Sorry, if all the PoD did was to kill off a 1/2% or less of the ZS's 
>population, then it seems the whole thing *has* to be seen as propaganda 
>on the part of *someone*.

Like the Terran popular press? "Millions dead on Dingir! Plague is killing
off all Vilani! Read all about it!"

>>>The worst plague in human history -- the Spanish Flu at the end of WW1 -- 
>>>was worse than this! 
>>
>>It killed over a billion people?
> 
>No, it killed a larger *percentage* of people. To have the same effect on the
>population of the ZS, you would have to have it kill 5-8 billion people. And
>even then, like I said, who remembers the Spanish Flu?

And Ebola has been known to kill 100% of a village. To have the same effect
in the Danish yellow press a disease here in Denmark would have to kill at
least one person. And who, like I said, remembers the Black Death? 
 
>>You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I for one believe that the
>>premature death of a billion people is worthy of at least a foot-note in
>>history... ;-)
> 
>About as big a one as the Spanish Flu is. 

What was the socio-political impact of the Spanish Flu? Did it have effects
comparable to that of the Black Death? It isn't how many dies or how big a
percentage, it is what the historians thinks is significant.

>Which is to say, sweet damn all for practical purposes. *UNLESS* someone 
>connected with it has an axe of some sort to grind!

Or unless it catches the imagination of people. That's all it takes. The
Black Death was a popular plague, the Spanish Flu wasn't. No one today
has any axe to grind in connection with either. Yet one is remembered
and one isn't.
 
>>What's so quirky about assuming that the Vilani immune system strengths
>>follow a bell curve?
> 
>So we have around 99% or so resistant, as less than 1% died? 

Yes, you are right. If the Old Vilani had had weakened immune systems but
99% still survived, then their descendants ought to have weak immune
systems too. So that theory don't hold water. The Vilani immune systems
must be potentially as strong as the Terran ones. But that wouldn't help
the generation of Vilani that encountered the Terran immigrants, because
an immune system that dosen't get properly excersised from birth dosen't
develop full strength.

>Seems like, statistically speaking, the Vilani immune system was 
>essentially the same as far as effectiveness goes ... 

Potentially as strong, yes. But not developed to its full potential at the
time.

>*or* that Terran medical tech was vastly successful in treating them, much 
>more so than anyone gives them credit for, for whatever reason.



>Even if the ZS populace was only 1/10th of Milieu 0 populace, then its 
>still 100 billion, and 1 billion dead is still only 1% ... and an immunity 
>rate of 99%! Looks more and more like the PoD was and is a complete beat 
>up, eh?

You know the old saw about white lies, black lies, and statistics? Just
because 1% of all Vilani survived dosen't mean that a much higher
percentage didn't die on some worlds close to Earth while some planets
far from Earth was scarcely touvhed. There's even a tiny bit of support
for that view in the fact that the Plague of Duskir is part of the
Solomani history (_S&A_) while it is apparently not part of Vilani
history (_V&V_).
  
>>>You will probably have Spanish Flu equivalents (the Spanish Flu wiped out as 
>>>many people as WW1, but more evenly spread -- perhaps 1.5% of the world 
>>>population at the time, all in about 12-18 months) ... nasty, but not 100% 
>>>lethal in weeks.
>>
>>Possibly the "Gateway" disease is a freak even by Terran standards? In any
>>case, if "Gateway" takes place in Milieu 0, then it is irrelevant that the
>>humans involved are Vilani. By this time they must have much the same
>>resistance as any Solomani.
> 
>No disease works that way. None. Even Pneumonic Plague was only as lethal 
>as it was because of the cramped and unhygienic living conditions of the 
>Middle Ages.

I haven't read _Gateway_, as I said, so perhaps I won't accept the Gateway
Plague either, but as a general science fiction concept I'm perfectly ready 
to believe in a weird and alien bug that by a freak of nature is far more 
lethal and far more persistent than any bug that ever developed naturally
on Earth. 

>If a single person with the Flu sneezes, how many people in a room get it? 
>And aerosol is just about the best way of spreading disease. It's not 100%, 
>not even close. And since the Vilani immune system is, based on figures you 
>have provided, no more than 1% less effective than the Terran one, well, it 
>seems that it simply cannot spread as effectively or as fast.

You're using that figure the way the Devil reads the Bible. You would get
exactly the same figure by assuming that there was only one outbreak, on
a high-population world, that killed off more than a billion Vilani before
the Terran super-science developed a vaccine which was then distributed to
every surviving Vilani in the RoM. The canonical truth lies somewhere in
between these two extremes. Some worlds were almost devastated while
others were relatively untouched. 

>The 3I reconquered Earth -- and it's always a good idea to demonise the 
>enemy, it makes it easier to kill. 

It's sometimes a very bad idea to demonize the enemy. For one thing, it makes
the enemy demonize you, which makes it easier for him to kill you. for
another, it makes him fight harder, because it reduces the attractiveness
of surrender. And finally it makes it more difficult to make friends with
him when you've conquered him. And we know for a fact that the Imperium
put a lot of effort into making friends with Earth after the war. (In
fact, one of my ideas for TNE was that Earth had really resented being 
'liberated' by those Solomani fanatics from Home who just muscled in and
started to throw your weight about (You don't believe the Solomani
leaders turned over the reins of government to the Terran leaders, do
you? It's much more likely that they executed them as traitors...).

>Most well educated people don't really like killing other people they have 
>every reason to think are poor saps in just the same fix they are -- and 
>hesitation can be fatal. So governments involved differentiate the enemy by 
>making them seem a) vile and evil or b) subhuman -- so the 3I hyped up its 
>troops by making these claims about the Solomani.

But it's not the 3I who are telling the PoD story, it's the Solomani (not
to mention a game author). And they are not claiming that the PoD was a
Solomani genocide plot, they are blaming it on Vilani weaknesses.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:23:28 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD)

On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:03:12 -0700, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 05:56 AM 9/10/97 GMT, you wrote:
> >On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:47:10 EDT, lugh1@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >There was no documented ground war
> >between the US and the USSR in the fictitious background of T2300.
> >The USSR was also still very much alive, since the game was released
> >in 1986.  If you don't keep your arguments within the bounds of the
> >game's history, the whole discussion becomes pointless.
> 
> Actually, there was.  2300AD is set in the same universe as T2K.

"2300 AD" or "Traveller: 2300"?  I couldn't find any reference to a
ground war or T2K's history (maybe I was just too tired) in my copy of
T:2300.

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:30:03 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Historical events

                        HISTORICAL EVENT GENERATOR
                        ==========================

This is a set of tables that can be used as a springboard for working out the
history of a planet. First go through your Traveller material and note down
any events that are mentioned there. The roll first for major world events
(Table A), then for important world events (Table B), then for notable world
events (Table C). This will give you a framework to start with. Note that it
is a framework, not a straight-jacket. If the tables call for the breakup of
an empire and you don't want the empire to break up at that time, then just 
ignore the event or roll again or substitute something you do want. And just
because you don't roll up something is no reason not to have it. If you want
a war or a migration or a new philosophy, go ahead and introduce it.

Note: The abbreviation 1DD means that first you roll a die, then you roll the
number of dice shown by the first die. So if you rolled a 5 with the first die
you would roll 5 dice for the final result.

Region: A region is an area about the size of a small continent with a lot of
history in common.

A: MAJOR WORLD EVENTS
=====================

Roll 2D once per century to see if something of global significance occurs.

 2      No event       
 3      New colonists arrive from offworld. 
 4      No event
 5      Major historical figure. 
 6      World war or protracted war
 7      No event
 8      New World Order
 9      No event
10      New region settled
11      Impressive engineering feat
12      Global disaster

Explanation of events:

NEW COLONISTS: 
 
Roll 1D:
 0      Ignore this event.
 1      Small ship (1DD colonists)
 2      Medium ship (1DD*10 colonists)
3-4     Large ship (1DD*100 colonists)
 5      Shipment (1DD*1000 colonists)
 6      Several shipments (1DD*10,000 colonists)

DM -1 if during The Long Night.

A small ship is most likely a misjumped free trader, scout, or military ship.
A medium ship is most likely a misjumped passenger ship or military cruiser.
A large ship could be a misjumped troop transport or a colony ship. In all
these cases the ship itself may have been incorporated in the first settle-
ment (A ship can be a very useful tool when setting up a colony). A shipment
is a bunch of colonists transported to the world and left there. They will
often be involuntary colonists. They may on occasion come from quite far away,
but mostly they will be from a highly-populated nearby world. Several 
shipments are the same as 5), but transported there over a number of trips. 
They will most likely come from a nearby high-population world and will often 
be set up as a colony of that world.

If you roll a small number of new colonists then remember that you don't get
more than a footnote in the history book, if that, merely for arriving. If a  
new set of colonists are mentioned then it's because they will eventually grow 
into a big group of people, infect the locals with Hepatitis Q causing a 
worldwide collapse of civilization, teach the secret of fire, cause a major 
religious upset, or something else of major significance.

MAJOR HISTORICAL FIGURE: 

Roll 1D:
1-2     Prophet
3-4     Philosopher 
 5      Conqueror
 6      Empire Builder

These historical figures will have had a profound effect on the world's
history, though in the case of prophets and philosophers not necessarily
while they were alive.

WORLD WAR: A war involving a large part of the world's population, though not
necessarily all of them.

PROTRACTED WAR: A war that goes on for decades with occasional brief periods  
of peace. An example would be the Hundred Year War. Roll 1DD for the number
of decades it goes on.

NEW WORLD ORDER: The balance of power shifts from one part of the world to
another.

NEW REGION SETTLED: A continent or a large isolated area of the planet becomes 
the target of a large number of settlers. Remember that an area can be settled 
more than once by different population groups.

IMPRESSIVE ENGINEERING FEAT: At this level we're talking about continental-
scale terraforming, canals linking seas or artificial land bridges, or
monuments visible from space. Ignore this event if population is so small 
that you can't think of anything on this scale that they could manage. Or
make up something that IS impressive, but only when the small size of the 
population is taken into account.


B: IMPORTANT WORLD EVENTS
=========================

Roll 3D three times per century to see if an important world event occur.

 3      Roll twice
 4      Discovery
 5      Migration
 6      No event
 7      Plague
 8      Founding of an empire
 9      No event
10      War
11      Important historical figure
12      No event
13      Breakup of an empire
14      Natural disaster
15      No event
16      Impressive engineering feat
17      Atrocity
18      Roll 3 times

Explanation of events:

DISCOVERY: Something new has been discovered (or rediscovered). Be careful
about new scientific discoveries. Keep the overall tech levels of the
Traveller universe in mind at all times and don't exceed them unless you 
also plan to destroy the knowledge again before it can be disseminated.

MIGRATION: A large number of people moves from one region to another. 

PLAGUE: Throw 3D-3. If result is less than or equal to current medical TL, 
then the disease is 'merely' serious: 1D% of population in one region dies. 
Otherwise it is disastrous: 1DD% of population in one region and 1D% of 
population in each of the neighboring regions dies.

FOUNDING OF EMPIRE: A nation dominating most of a region has come into being. 
It will last for at least 1DD decades (unless a 'Breakup of E.' is rolled).

WAR: A war involving a good part of a region and lasting 2DD months has broken
out.

HISTORICAL FIGURE:

Roll 2D:

 2      Peacemaker
 3      Artist
 4      Liberator
 5      Prophet
 6      Statesman
 7      Conqueror
 8      Empire Builder
 9      Philosopher
10      Discoverer
11      Madman
12      Ruler

A conqueror builds large empires by conquest, but they seldom last once he is
dead. An empire builder creates something a little more lasting, propably, but
not necessarily. A statesman skillfully preserves what already exists, often
against odds. A ruler is renowned for what happens to him rather than for what
he does (Being the nominal ruler of a great statesman or the patron of a great
artist, for example. Or getting his head cut off by an angry mob... that's 
always good for a spot in the history books).

BREAKUP OF AN EMPIRE: If you don't have a handy empire to break up then ignore
this event or establish one retroactively (In the latter case it was propably
a peaceful one that never did bother the rest of the world much).

NATURAL DISASTER: Tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. The disaster 
kills a lot of people or destroys something significant (like an armada or a
wonder of the world).

IMPRESSIVE ENGINEERING FEAT: Wonder of the World stuff. Examples are canals,
bridges, dams (lakes created), dykes (land reclaimed from sea), roads through
swamps and tunnels through mountains, irrigation systems, buildings (pyramids, 
temples), and regional-scale terraforming.

ATROCITY:  Cities razed and salted; population groups killed, enslaved, or
forcibly deported; cultures suppressed; etc.

D: NOTABLE WORLD EVENTS:
========================

Throw 4D once per decade to see if a notable world event occurs:

 4      Roll twice
 5      Atrocity
 6      Impressive engineering feat
 7      Migration
 8      Liberation of a nation
 9      No event
10      Plague
11      Conquest of a nation
12      Founding of a nation/important city
13      War between two nations
14      No event
15      Notable historical figure
16      Pivotal battle
17      Nation splits
18      Natural disaster
19      No event
20      Nations join together
21      Civil war
22      Discovery
23      No event
24      Roll 3 times

ATROCITY, ENGINEERING FEAT, MIGRATION, PLAGUE, WAR, NATURAL DISASTER, and
DISCOVERY: Same as above, but on a smaller scale.

HISTORICAL FIGURE:

Throw 3D:

 3      Artist
 4      Rebel
 5      Peacemaker
 6      Artist
 7      Liberator
 8      Prophet
 9      Statesman
10      Conqueror
11      Empire builder
12      Statesman
13      Philosopher
14      Discoverer
15      Madman
16      Ruler
17      Outlaw
18      Artist


PIVOTAL BATTLE:

Roll 1D for battle result:

 1      Overwhelming victory
 2      Pyrric victory
 3      Stalemate
 4      Temporary setback
 5      Permanent setback
 6      Crushing defeat

Note that the result is what the battle is remembered for. Waterloo is
remembered as a famous defeat, even by Britishers.

NATION SPLITS: This can be either through a successful rebellion or after
pressure from other nations or a referendum.

NATIONS JOIN TOGETHER: 

Roll 1D if sovereignity is bottom-up (A sizable number of the citizens have a
say in how things are decided). Roll 2D if sovereignity is top-down (Very few
people have a say in how things are decided).

 1      Merger
 2      Alliance
 3      Request
 4      Purchase
 5      Concession
 6      Conquest
 7      Marriage
 8      Inheritance
 9      Purchase
10      Marriage
11      Inheritance
12      Bequest

Merger: The affairs of two nations have become so interlinked that legislation
to formalize a _de facto_ situation has been enacted.

Alliance: Two (or more) nations have decided to join together. 

Request: The previous sovereign requested to become part of another nation.

Purchase: Part of a nation (possibly an empty part) has been bought by
another nation.

Concession: Previous sovereign has been forced by means short of war (threats,
sanctions, etc.) to cede territory to another nation.

Conquest: A nation or part of one has been conquered by another nation.

Marriage: Two rulers have become married.

Inheritance: A ruler has inherited new territory.

Bequest: A ruler has willed his land to another nation.


CIVIL WAR: A civil war, successful or otherwise, which causes a significant 
change in the affected nation's influence on world affairs.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1810
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1811



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Traveller Integrated Timeline
Re: Jump in Traveller-long
re:  Rule of Man
Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex
Re: Monetary Economics
Re: Replys [sic]
Re: Sanity
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: T:2300 Sim
Re: T:2300 Sim
Re: While we're at it...
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1806

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 0:36:28 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@cmi.csc.com>
Subject: Traveller Integrated Timeline

Well, after catching up on old TML digests and seeing my timeline
mentioned again on the TML reminds me (through the piles of work -
everyone else in my department at my company resigned a month ago,
and I'm now a one-man band instead of a four-part choral group).
I've got a MAJOR revision to the stuff available on my website on
the laptop, and I need some help.

Now, many of you have helped me put this together, esp. by typing stuff
in for me; I can't tell you how you've all helped.  However, there's two
pieces remaining:

a)	The list of materials lacking references in the database...
	(I'll put these at the end of the message, for everyone's sanity)

b)	A review of the timeline, by "concerned" individuals, especially
	anyone interested in the E21/Interstellar War discussions, or the
	unsupported milleux.  I haven't incorporated T4 material in here,
	as my copies of First Survey and Milleu Zero (great, I don't even
	remember titles) wandered away from me at a recent gaming 
	convention...  I need people willing to verify the content, so
	please contact me...

What this means is, is that if you've supported this effort, you'll be 
receiving a "big" e-mail shortly, of the whole thing, with the expectation
that you'll make sure I didn't screw something up...

Thanks for the help,


DonM.


Appendix A - Missing Materials...

1)	Missing GDW materials:
	Arrival Vengeance
	Assignment Vigilante
	Astrogator's Guide to the Diaspora Sector
	Challenge:	#25-26, #36-38, #40-43, #45, #47-59, #61-67, #69,
			#72-74
	Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium
	Fifth Frontier War
	Hard Times
	JTAS:	#1-2, #4, #7
	Knightfall
	Striker

2)	Missing DGP materials:
	101 Robots
	Flaming Eye
	Vilani and Vargr
	Solomani and Aslan
	Starship Operator's Manual
	TD:	#1, #2, #3, #4 (although I have Early Adventures)

3)	Examine the computer games "Zhodani Consipracy" and "Quest for the
	Ancients" for additional information...

4)	Missing FASA materials:
	Action Aboard
	Adventure Class Ships (Vols. 1 and 2)
	Aslan Mercenary Ships
	Far Traveller:	all
	High Passage:	all
	ISCV: King Richard
	ISCV: Leander
	ISPMV: Fenris
	ISPMV: Tethys
	Merchant Class Ships
	Rescue on Galatea
	SPV: Valkyrie
	Starport Modules #1 and #2
	FCI Consumer Guide
	The Harrensa Project/The Stazhlekh Report
	ZISMV: Vlezhdatl

5)	Missing Gamelords materials:
	Pilot's Guide to the Caledon Subsector
	Startown Liberty
	The Desert Environment
	The Mountain Environment
	The Undersea Environment
	Wanted: Adventurers
	
6)	Missing Marischal materials:
	Fleetwatch
	Flight of the Stag
	Salvage Mission
	Trading Team

7)	Missing Seeker materials:
	Escape
	Gazelle Class Close Escort
	Merchant Class Ships, Vol #1 (is this related to the FASA product?)
	Module 1 - the Corporation
	Module 2 - the Research Facility
	Module 3 - Merchant Class Ships

8)	All Group One and Judges Guild products, for completeness, and 
	perhaps a consideration of the Star Quest and Warfield products...

Thanks for your patience with this long posting...
- --
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist,           (217) 351-8250 x2365 = 
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL        dmckinne@cmi.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998    =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org       (217) 469-9917 = 
============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:33:24 +0000
From: "Bill Hopper" <whopper@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller-long

> From:          CardSharks@aol.com
> 	...The 100 Diameter Sphere. Jump uses a straight line in calculating courses.
> If that straight line intersects a 100 diameter sphere around an object, the
> ship is "precipitated out" of jump space. ...
> ...

I do not like the idea that ships in jumpspace travel in straight 
lines in normal space.  It seems too like Star Trek or Star Wars.  
In Traveller, when you enter jumpspace, you exit from the 
regular universe and are unaffected by it until you re-enter.  The 
only time you should have to worry about masses in normal space are 
when you are entering and leaving jumpspace.  The problems entering 
jumpspace are well documented.  IMTU, if you try to jump too near or 
into a planet, etc., you will be precipitated out of jumpspace 
at c. 100 diameters with unpleasant consequences for your jump drives 
and crew/passengers.  It doesn't kill you, but it makes you feel that 
way for a while.

> 	Ships retain their speed and direction when they enter jump space
> and when they emerge from jump. `	Standing Jump. Standard practice
> is for ships to do a standing jump (jump with zero velocity); it's
> safer. 	Running Jump. A ship could enter jump a high speed (called a
> running jump). Upon emerging, it need only decelerate as it
> approaches the new world.

I put a lot of thought into why standing jumps are standard.  Unless 
there are significant risks to a running jump (we called it jumping 
'hot'), everyone would do it.  IMTU, it works like this: (BTW, I have 
not tried to write this down before, but will try to make it clear.)
When a ship enters jump, it is absolutely and totally divorced from 
normal space.  It cannot be affected by any event in normal space 
until it re-enters normal space.  In order to conserve energy, it 
retains its normal space velocity as potential energy.  When the ship 
re-enters normal space, the potential becomes kinetic and the velocity 
is re-established.  The key question is - velocity with relation to 
_what_? The answer is- to the local gravity well.

In Traveller, it is a fact that gravity can affect jumping ships.  I 
have taken this a step further.

When a ship enters jumpspace, its velocity _relative to the local   
gravity well_ is retained.  Once in jump, all relation to the normal 
universe is severed.  The ship 'loses its orientation' with respect 
to real space.  When exiting jump, the ship must 'reorient' in the 
normal universe.  If there is a local gravity well, the ship orients 
on it, retaining its velocity in relation to it. 

This interpretation has many implications.  First of all, for normal 
merchants, etc., it makes no sense to do anything other than a standing 
jump. If you retain any 'outbound' velocity before jump, you will 
still be 'outbound' after jump and will have to overcome that vector before 
you can approach your destination.  In addition, the standing jump is 
less difficult to accomplish.  

The second implication is that if a ship is inbound on a running 
jump, it is hostile and should be engaged immediately.  The reason 
for this is that you really have to work at it to be inbound on a 
running jump.  You have to go past the jump point, turn around and 
accelerate back before jumping.  There are very few reasons for doing 
this (and none that I can think of right now) that are not military 
and hostile.

Another interesting implication is that if there is no gravity well 
where you are jumping to or jumping from, your velocity is 
predictable but your vector is not.  This makes it very 
d/a/n/g/e/r/o/u/s/ interesting to do a running jump in these situations.

> 	Consequences. Imagine the risk involved if a ship misexits with a high
> velocity directly toward the small object. with no time to reach or maneuver,
> a collision is inevitable. 

Marc said it, I didn't.

> 	Misdirected Jump. The ship emerges from jump space in an unintended
> location, ...
> 	2D	Direction	Distance
> ...table deleted...
> 	Roll twice (once for each column).

Trash the misjump table.  Go back to the old standby, 1d6 for 
direction, 1d6 for number of dice for distance.  It is much simpler 
and more random, IMO.  And, by golly, misjumps _should _ be random!

WKH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:34:35 +0800
From: Michael Bailey <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: re:  Rule of Man

>AIUI, 'man' is a neutral term, and refers to the race (ie mankind). 'woman' 
>is feminine, and refers to females of the species. There is no masculine 
>term, so we hijacked 'man'. 'Rule of Man' is a perfectly correct name.

"...the Rule of Man contained the seeds of it's own downfall in it's very
name.  When Terran military officers spread throughout the former First
Imperium to administer the conquered worlds, they became the undisputed
masters of their feifdoms.  In very few cases were the worlds administered
under the rule of _Law_, Vilani or Terran.

With power concentrated into an easily corruptible minority, no clear
succession procedure, and the replacement of the old Vilani social order
with chaos, in retrospect it is surprising that the so-called Rule of Man
lasted as long as it did.  Without the Rule of Law, any Law, the Ramshackle
Empire was doomed from it's inception."

Iqbal Jayasuriya, "Rotting Foundations - the Collapse of the Second Imperium"
Fremantle Press, Terra.  114-522.

Michael Bailey
mickb@opera.iinet.net.au
				
pillock-at-large and proud supporter of the Chelsea FC and Fremantle AFL Clubs!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:49:37 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex

John Atkinson wrote

[snips throughout]

> >>>   Thereby creating a new empire (Byzantium) that was Greek, not
> >>>Latin.

> >>Just don't buy any red footware unless you are really, really, really
> 
> >>sure of yourself.
> >
> >   Or are prepared to be blinded, exiled, poisoned, stabbed, drown,
> >strangled or overrun by Crusaders or Turks in the process.
> 
> Damn Crusaders.
> PS:This is good.  A pro-Byzantine thread on my favorite newsgroup, and
> now one on a mailing list. . .

It has always seemed to me that the Empress Irene (who actually went by
the title Emperor) would make a good noble villain for a Traveller
campaign.  This would preferably not be as Empresss of the Third
Imperium, deity forbid, (although she might make a Good Emperor of the
Flag) but rather as the head of a pocket empire, or perhaps as a TNE
TED.  Anyone who would put their own sons eyes out to hold onto power
would be frighteningly ruthless to a group of players (if you are a
really twisted GM you could make Irene a noble charecters mother). 
- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 02:08:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu> said:
 > Watch this model when generalizing to a non static economy, where it is not
> immediately obvious just how many coconuts are in circulation, which makes
> it hard to know how much money should be out there as well.

	Right, this is why all the attention is paid to wholesale 
inventories, manufacturing orders, new housing starts, etc.

 
> >>         What central banks need to do is keep the money supply matched up
> >> with the amount of goods in the economy.  If the economy is growing at 2%
> >> per annum, then the money supply should grow at 2% per annum.  This keeps
> >> price levels where they were.
> 
> Depends on the philosophy of the central bank.  Some have believed that all
> you need to do to have more prosperity is print more money.  this, in
> theory, causes inflation, which wipes out loans, but makes it easier for
> the new group of people earning salaries normed to the new worth of money
> to buy the goods and services they need, at the cost of taking the services
> away from people who earned at the older worth of money.

	I don't think there are many banks left that do this.  
International currency and investment flows are big enough and volatile 
enough that, especially for small countries, monkeying with the 
macroeconomics leads to the flight of foreign capital and a big economic 
crash.  Look what happened to Mexico a few years ago when they tried to 
prop up the peso beyond its real value.  The same thing is happening 
right now in Malaysia.
	In Trav, I get the feeling that interstellar trade and investment 
flows are not such a big deal.  This allows a lot of local variation in 
economic institutions.
 
 > This returns us to the days when a
> traveller carried a letter of introduction and a letter of credit from a
> major banking family.

	How do you think things like complicated encryption schemes would 
change this system?


kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne) said:
> Moin John Macpherson, 
> > 	There's only one problem.  There are now more coconuts in the 
> > economy than before, so we are going to get deflation.  This is where the 
> > Central Bank steps in and prints a few more dollars to correspond to the 
> > new coconuts.  Creating exactly as many new dollars as there are new 
> > coconuts keeps the price level constant.
> 
> 	The next year the weather was very bad and a you have less
> 	coconuts, as its imposible to get the money back, you have
> 	inflation. Inflation is allways the sign the economic wave
> 	of this country is going down this time. ( It will go up
> 	next time, and new money is printed, and go down, and inflation
> 	occurs ;-)

	Actually, you _can_ get the money back.  There are two ways of 
doing this.  The most direct way is for the central bank to sell treasury 
bonds.  "But wait," you say "they're printing money, won't that 
_increase_ the money supply."  No, because they are selling a bond to the 
public, the public gets the bond and the treasury department gets the 
_money_ and then sits on it, taking it out of circulation.  Furthermore, 
the treasury bonds they sold were usually ones they'd bought on the open 
market anyway, and weren't just printed up for the occasion.
	The other way the central bank can get its money back involves 
raising the interest rate it charges member banks that borrow from it to 
cover short term gaps.  This gets us into territory we probably don't 
want to bother with, suffice to say that by changing banks' behavior, the 
central bank can affect the overall amount of money and credit available 
in the economy.
	The other thing I'd like to point out about Michael's statement 
is that inflation occurs at the _top_ of the business cycle because the 
aggregate demand in the economy exceeds the aggregate supply provided by 
the economy.  As the economy grows, businesses and consumers anticipate 
this growth by investing in new capacity, or borrowing against future 
earnings to buy a car or whatnot.  When people become too optimistic 
about future growth, they are too aggressive about this anticipatory 
investment, and they start to bid up prices.  This increase in the price 
level is inflation.  This is why Wall Street always seems to freak out 
about what the rest of us consider _good_ news: low unemployment.  When 
umemployment gets too low, they fear that employers will begin stealing 
each others employees and sending wages higher.  Wage increases are okay 
as long as they are matched by productivity increases.  If they are not, 
then inflation results.

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:27:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Replys [sic]

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Glenn M. Goffin, Esq. wrote:
>
>> Loren, inasmuch as your chances of winning are essentially the same
>> whether you buy a ticket or not, you might as well just accept that
>> frustration and grow from it.  --Glenn
>
> They had a ad for the Washington Lottery a couple of years back that
> always ended with "Odds of winning are 1 chance in [umpteen] million if
> you play, considerably worse if you don't."
>
> I always found that extrememly amusing...

Hey, 0 goes into 1/1,000,000,000 an infinite number of times! I'd call
infinite "considerably greater". :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:44:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sanity

In mail you write:

> AIUI, 'man' is a neutral term, and refers to the race (ie mankind). 'woman' 
> is feminine, and refers to females of the species. There is no masculine 
> term, so we hijacked 'man'. 'Rule of Man' is a perfectly correct name.

It all started with Anglo-Saxon (aka "Old English"). In it there were
*three* words. "Person, sex indefinite" = man. "Person, sex female" =
wifman. "Person, sex male" = wefman.

Since the most common use of "man" in reference to strangers or groups
of strangers, and strangers were almost always *male* (women didn't get
to travel much), "wefman" got adsorbed in "man". Leaving the less
commonly used "wifman" to stick around. 

And thus, in our time we have "man" filling *two* roles ("sex male" and
"sex indeterminate") while "woman" fills only one.

The *true* feminists have more important things to worry about (like
wage inequities, and unequal treatment). The ones that just want to
make a fuss about things like this "sexist usage" tend to be the
radicals and the crackpots (hint, any "feminist" who claims that only
women can be feminists, or merely acts that way, is *not* a mainstream
feminist!) 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:31:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

In mail you write:

>>You wrote:
>>
>>>In sealed areas with life support...[snip]
>>Are you trying to tell me it will cause problems with overloading the
>>life support to move through a starship firing SMGs and grenade
>>launchers?
>
> I'm thinking of the atmosphere in an indoor firing range, where my eyes are
> watering and my nose is running, and then imagining what it would be like
> if the space were half the volume, and the air was recycling in a closed
> loop.  Military vessels nmay be able to handle such things, but a civvie
> ship?  Yes, I think with enough gunfire the life support may start choking
> on particles of burnt and unburnt gunpowder.  That doesn't begin to explore
> what happens when a grenade goes off (I've never been anywhere near such an
> event, but I assume there is a lot of particulate matter expelled into the
> local atmosphere...and I mean the small pieces, not the big ones).

Any life support system that can't handle gunsmoke from a small battle
can't handle the smoke from a stateroom burning. And that would be a
suicidal design decision. After all, even if the furnishings were 100%
safe (which would have to include not giving off fumes when exposed to
high temperatures) you can't force passengers to use "safe" luggage and
clothing. 

CO2 recycles fairly easily, though high levels do cause discomfort.
What's mostly causing the trouble in firing ranges are sulfur and
nitrogen oxides. Luckily they are *very* soluble in water, thus likely
to be removed easily as part of the normal treatment of the air. They
also react with the chemicals used to extract CO2 (if you are doing so
chemically) so that "handles" them too.

> My opinion differs.  I think that a large handgun or .45 caliber submachine
> gun will cause a significant breathing hazard if frequently and repeatedly
> fired in an enclosed space over the course of a 5-10 minute battle.

It's likely to trigger the fire suppression systems, or at least trip
the ventilation sensors to run the airflow at "high". (BTW, I have yet
to see an indoor firing range that meets the standards for airflow in
places like offices, much less industrial work areas)

> Ok, lets take a RL scenario.  Take this gun...go on take it.  Ok lets
> get into my 747 here...watch the step...now I'll have the pilot take
> us to 40k feet.  Good.  Ok take shot at the bottom of the cabin.  No
> problem right?  Wrong.  Ignoring the problems of a hull breach (The
> analogy breaks down at the hull since starship hulls are obviously
> well armored) you've just split open the hydrolic line from the
> cockpit to the wing.  Or perhaps you've severed a fuel line, or maybe
> just the "waitress call" button.  In any case, I have my lightweight
> parachute handy during the whole experiment.

The analogy also breaks down because weight is so overwhelmingly
important on aircraft. Remember, they've had problems with damage to
the flooring from women wearing spike heels!

> The fact is a starship and an airplane (and an orbital facility, and an
> air/raft...) are complex mechanical and electronic machines.  They are not
> armored on the inside (wasted weight is wasted money) so any reasonable
> round will simply pass through the inner skin and hit the outer (where it
> may, in fact, ricochet back in).  In the process it will part any soft
> items, such as electronic control systems, coolant conduits, hydrolic
> tubing, wires, lighting fixtures, etc. etc., which get in the way.  Taking
> unreasonable rounds, like those from a 30 caliber machine gun and spewing
> them about the cabin of a starship will have multiple such effects, which
> can be both dangerous and expensive.

"Wasted" weight is one thing. But Traveller spacecraft are more likelt
to be built like *ships*. For one thing, like ships, and unlike
airplanes, if there's a problem you generally have some time to do
something about it. Except on landing and takeoff you *can't* "crash". 

Starships *won't* be as fragile as aircraft. Given the power of a
typical drive, it's *worth* the extra money to run things in conduits
and to use thicker wall and floor material. Aircraft tend to get metal
fatigue in as little as 10 years. Starships are (according to the
books) still fine after *40* years. That *requires* that they be built
more along the lines of a seagoing vessel than an aircraft.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:47:54 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: T:2300 Sim

On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:41:03 -0700, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 12:33 PM 9/12/97 +1000, you wrote:
> >
> >Having had access to the T:2300 boxed set, I was always intrigued by the
> >concept that the T:2300 world was the result of a simulation played out
> >against the aftermath of T:2000.
> >
> >Of course the next question is begging...
> >
> >Is it possible to get a copy of this simulation????
> >(Assuming that it had reliable rules, and was not the result of some
> >fudged free-form role-playing.)
> 
> Oh, Loren......
> 
> I always wondered, who played France?

According to the Referee's Manual, it was someone named John Harshman
(Loren played New America, Germany, and Indonesia).

On a related T:2300 question, is there much difference between T:2300
and 2300 AD besides the title?  This might have something to do with
the fact that in my copy of T:2300, the only text regarding WW3 was:

  "At the end of the century, the tensions broke and the world was
finally engulfed in the long-anticipated World War III.  It settled
nothing...
  "The devastation of World War III was global in scope, and did not
end with the fall of the last bomb."

That's it.  There is very little else related to WW3 and whether there
was a ground war or not (hence my previous postings :)


James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:44:41 +2
From: "RFXn" <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: T:2300 Sim

On 11 Sep 97 at 20:41, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> At 12:33 PM 9/12/97 +1000, you wrote:

> >Is it possible to get a copy of this simulation????
> >(Assuming that it had reliable rules, and was not the result of some
> >fudged free-form role-playing.)

Try:    http://www.nicom.com/~artcraft/gg2.htm

> Oh, Loren......
> 
> I always wondered, who played France?

- -----from http://www.nicom.com/~artcraft/gg2/2300game.htm --------

The background history for 2300AD was developed over the course of
1985-1986 using a grand social-political-economic-military-diplomatic
simulation known as The Game. The future course of history depended
not on just one person's ideas of what the future would be like, but
on the interaction of many people's ideas - the ones that survived
were the ones who understood the conflict and diplomacy of The Game.
Beginning with the conduct of World War III, players manipulated their
nations on 5- or 10-year turns to bring them into the future of the
year 2300. Players in The Game were:


John Astell (Mexico, Romania, and India)

Rich Banner (Russia, Zimbabwe, and Canada)

Kevin Brown (Cuba, the Ukraine, and Australia)

Timothy Brown (United Kingdom, Algeria and Manchuria)

Larry Butz (Venezuela, Italy, Iran, and Angola)

John Harshman (France, Argentina, and Israel)

David MacDonald (Milgov of U.S., Poland, and Canton)

Marc W. Miller (Azania, Japan, Bolivia, and Egypt)

Matt Renner (Civgov of U.S., Sweden, and Nigeria)

Wayne Roth (Brazil, Spain, and Turkey)

Loren Wiseman (New America, Germany, and Indonesia)

Frank Chadwick (referee and kibbitzing player)

- ------ end quote ---------------------
/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
 -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
 -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
 -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:00:00 +2
From: "RFXn" <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: While we're at it...

On 11 Sep 97 at 10:53, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Speaking of Lahti's, here is a 3g3 design of a 20mm bolt-action SS
> sniper rifle based on a real life design by a company called Pauza
> Specialities, which also makes .50 BMG cal rifles, and .50 cal
> pistols (no, _NOT_ BMG, but the .50 Action Express round. It's
> actually a Ruger Super Blackhawk conversion) 

	Can't say anything about .50 AE - will try a friend's Desert Eagle 
prolly next week.

> Karolan Industries 'Vindicator'AMS Rifle 20 mm TL-8
> 
>  Th Vindicator is a single shot, 20 MM infantry anti-materiel
> sniper weapon. Typically employed in two man, shooter/spotter teams,
> this weapon can be extremely effective at very long ranges. Slug,
> and DS rounds are currently available. Typical targets include
> vehicles, BD equipped personnel, fixed sensor emplacements, etc. 
> 
>  These guns can be employed at extreme ranges, a DS round has an
> effective range of up to 3 kilometers, a slug up to 450 meters.
> 
>  The game statistics are as follows:
> 
> Round 	Dmg	TL	Range	Shots	Mass	Reloads	Cost
> 
> Slug	7	8	Long	1	30.3	.37 kg	8220
> DS	8	8	Ex Long	1	30.3	.23 kg	8220	
> 
>  This was an effort to produce the same RL design I posted
> yesterday, using 3G3 for the design system; actually I used the 3G3
> spreadsheets to do it.
> 
> The physical stats are as follows:
> 
> Part		3G3	RL (estimated from the GIF, or from the stats)
> Barrel		96 	96 cm
> Reciever 	13 	25 cm
> Stock		30 	27 cm
> Weight		30.3	22 kg

	Sounds pretty much like the .50 BMG sniper I got to play with 
yesterday. Didn't get to fire it, unfortunately. The rifle was about 
1.4 meters long overall, with about 90cm barrel (and a 5cm recoil 
compensator), and weighted about 20 kg. It too was a single-shot 
weapon. However, using ball ammunition the rifle is accurate out to 
1600 meters, DS increases this up to 2 km.

	I also saw a photo of that rifle fired in the dark. A pretty
impressive sight, the muzzle flash was a fireball around 5'
across... I may get to try this one out later, will post the results
(assuming I don't get my shoulder dislocated or anything).
/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
 -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
 -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
 -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:11:24 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1806

On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:11:08 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:15:32 -0500
>From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
>Subject: Technobabble and Traveller GT, coming soon Traveller LS.
>

>Anyway, folks, I was *trying* to express a little humor and my opinion at 
>the same time: what I would like to see is GT do everything from CT to MT 
>to TNE.  An alternate universe, IMNSHO, will damage Traveller; a little

Am alternate universe? What on earth do you call TNE? Historically there was
continuity, but *technologically* the replacement of Thruster Plates with HePlar
*completely* stuffed every previous product. *EVERY* previous product. To a
greater or lesser degree. Of course, *I* would argue that TNE did more than
damage Traveller a little.
 
>healthy revision, reprinting, and new material will not.  It's a time

This seems to be a case of "if *I* like it, its 'healthy revision' if I *don't*
like it, its 'damage'."

>honored practice for RPG companies to "revise and reprint" as 2nd+ 
>editions.  How many has AD&D had?  And "it's still alive"...  I don't 

Yep, but even AD&D is basically the same as OD&D ... even the magic system is
more or less the same. TNE's replacement of Thruster Plates was like AD&D
announcing that they were limiting Fighters to firing a number of arrows per day
equal to their Level -1 in order to reduce the lethality of Bows vs. Mages.

>think anyone would have a single complaint (zealots aside) if SJG would 
>begin printing MT and TNE materials as GURPS supplements.

Sorry, I have bad news for you. Depending on what you mean, there will certainly
be complaints. All those people who hated the TNE background (like me) will
object to the waste of time and effort involved in reprinting that; all the TNE
lovers and MTrav haters (and they exist) will similarly object, but in reverse.

If you mean as far as *game systems*, I would object to anything like the MTrav
game system being reprinted, preferring the TNE game system -- but lots of
people love the MTrav system, and would object if the TNE system was reprinted.

No, I think Steve is wise in heading off all this and cutting off both the
TNE'ers and the MTravers at the knees by doing a Dallas.

>*sigh*  I don't personally like the GURPS system, but I have a great deal 
>of respect for SJG's ability to produce (I may even try a supplement for 
>them; they actually like outside authors.)

So, by all means see if they will take TNE related background stuff -- *I* won't
buy it, but a *lot* of people on this list would!

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1811
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1812



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Replys [sic]
Re: Traveller Integrated Timeline
re: harshman
Re: Traveller Integrated Timeline
re: Traveller Integrated Timeline
GURPS Traveller and TNE
Commentary
past
T IV - speculation
Re: FF&S - How is it?
Re:dan lane
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex
Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: America 2300ad
Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: T:2300 Sim
Re: America 2300ad
Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?
Re: Jump in Traveller-long

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 05:18:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Replys [sic]

In a message dated 97-09-11 21:40:01 EDT, you write:

<< 
 They had a ad for the Washington Lottery a couple of years back that
 always ended with "Odds of winning are 1 chance in [umpteen] million if
 you play, considerably worse if you don't."
 
 I always found that extrememly amusing...
 
  >>
Someone told me how to double my chance of winning the lottery... buy TWO
tickets.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:05:20 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: Traveller Integrated Timeline

- -> b)  A review of the timeline, by "concerned" individuals, especially
- ->     anyone interested in the E21/Interstellar War discussions, or the
- ->     unsupported milleux.  I haven't incorporated T4 material in here,
- ->     as my copies of First Survey and Milleu Zero (great, I don't even
- ->     remember titles) wandered away from me at a recent gaming 
- ->     convention...  I need people willing to verify the content, so
- ->     please contact me...

I'd be interested!

- -> 3)  Examine the computer games "Zhodani Consipracy" and "Quest for the
- ->     Ancients" for additional information...

Hmmm, maybe i should play MT II again!

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:32:44 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: harshman

Jlindsay quoted someone:
>> Oh, Loren......
>>
>> I always wondered, who played France?
>Jlindsay answered:
>According to the Referee's Manual, it was someone named John Harshman
>(Loren played New America, Germany, and Indonesia).

In case it helps, the 'someone' (John Harshman) had a hand in or wrote:

Alien Modules 1,3,4,5, & 6  (+ the earlier handout 'Aliens for Traveller')
Library Data (A-M) & (N-Z)
The Traveller Adventure, and
The Solomani Rim (Supplement 10)


[Says he referring to his handy bibliography with useful author index!]

tc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:57:16 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller Integrated Timeline

>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 0:36:28 CDT
>From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@cmi.csc.com>
>Subject: Traveller Integrated Timeline

>Well, after catching up on old TML digests and seeing my timeline
>mentioned again on the TML reminds me (through the piles of work -
>everyone else in my department at my company resigned a month ago,
>and I'm now a one-man band instead of a four-part choral group).
>I've got a MAJOR revision to the stuff available on my website on
>the laptop, and I need some help.

>Now, many of you have helped me put this together, esp. by typing stuff
>in for me; I can't tell you how you've all helped.  However, there's two
>pieces remaining:

>a)	The list of materials lacking references in the database...
>	(I'll put these at the end of the message, for everyone's sanity)

>b)	A review of the timeline, by "concerned" individuals, especially
>	anyone interested in the E21/Interstellar War discussions, or the
>	unsupported milleux.  I haven't incorporated T4 material in here,
>	as my copies of First Survey and Milleu Zero (great, I don't even
>	remember titles) wandered away from me at a recent gaming 
>	convention...  I need people willing to verify the content, so
>	please contact me...

Andrew sheepishly puts his hand up. I've spent some time looking into whats
been published for the Interstellar Wars and would really be keen to help.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 7:37:02 CDT
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@cmi.csc.com>
Subject: re: Traveller Integrated Timeline

Sorry for that beast being out there a second time; my mailer reported
an error in sending it the first time...


DonM.
- --
============================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist,           (217) 351-8250 x2365 = 
= Computer Sciences Corporation, Champaign, IL        dmckinne@cmi.csc.com =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998    =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org       (217) 469-9917 = 
============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:46:25 -0400
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: GURPS Traveller and TNE

NOTE:  WHAT FOLLOWS IS PURE SPECULATION ON MY PART, AND IS NOT BASED ON ANY
KNOWN FACT.

        Discussion about GURPS Traveller has included comments about how it
is bad for them to be doing an "alternate timeline" because this may damage
Traveller. Along the way, it was stated that TNE was itself an "alternate"
timeline, and that it damaged Traveller.
        Well, I disagree. Game retailers I talked to (about 7 all told,
admittedly not a representative sample) said that their problems with
Traveller began with MegaTraveller, which at the time was high-priced ($30
for a boxed set was a little high for 1986) and errata-laden; five printings
before it was completely debugged. MT stuff simply did not sell for them,
and this served to taint their opinions of the Traveller line as a whole;
this carried over to TNE.
 As for an alternate timeline, TNE is not. I'm sure that when and if IG or a
licensee gets around to publishing materials related to that mileau,
thruster plates will be retconned back in, perhaps with a handwaving
explanation of why the RC can't make them. But that does not invalidate the
storyline. 
        I think GURPS Traveller is being done the way it is for a couple of
reasons; first, I know that Marc is not overly fond of some of the things
that were done with Traveller during his period of non-involvement. This is
a chance to have a timeline where these things did not occur. (By the way,
just because Strephon doesn't get killed doesn't mean there's no Civil War;
the pressures are still there, and a war could still break out. it wouldn't
be the Rebellion per se, but could be just as interesting.) Secondly, I have
many times read that Steve Jackson is very fond of classic Traveller. IF
there is going to be a GURPS Traveller, it would make sense to me that it is
either going to be set in the "classic" era (which might be tough because a
lot of that has already been done and using that material might be legally
difficult ) or it would be what it is going to be; a continuation of classic
Traveller PAST 1116 into unwritten and therefore original territory.
        I don't think "alternate timelines" are going to hurt Traveller.
There will be crossover in the sales, but fundamentally, those who prefer
the original Traveller universe (and yes, I do prefer it) will continue to
play there. Those with a strong nostalgia bent will like GT; there may be
those who will use the GT background but the T4 rules, and those who use GT
rules but the current universe at their favorite points along the timeline.
I think GURPS, for example, would make an excellent system for TNE gaming.
It has  many of the same elements as the TNE system, but does it better in
many respects ( i do not and have never cared for the GDW House System all
that much). For my tastes, much as I love GURPS, I intend to continue
running T4.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:59:03 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Commentary

Quote the Dberry
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:11:54 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re:dan lane

At 05:04 AM 9/11/97 EDT, you wrote:

> Your comments are disrespecful, off-topic, and insulting.

And half this list isn't?

> (you *did* actually go where the bang-bangs happened, or are you a REMF?)

What kind of question is this? REMF? Methinks the Gulf War was a bit
diffferent than Vietnam. Many combat types have this nonsensical idea that
support troops are useless. Iraq probably has a better appreciation of their
supply troops now.

Remember that the last war America fought on it's own, we lost.  
WHAT? I mean that. WHAT? This is a gross insult to the very brave South
Koreans, Thais, and Australians that joined America in the Vietnam war. 

If you want to flame about this, mail me privately.

What the hell fun is that? 

<chant mode on>
we want public flamings, we want public flamings, we want public flamings,
we want public flamings
<chant mode off>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:03:49 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: past

Quote the DBerry:
To a man of the late 17th Century, the thought that in 300 years the two
greates powers would be a rebellious British colony and the post-Czar
peasents of Russia would seem to be as a bsurd as claiming that men could
walk on the Moon!

What pernicious nonsense. Next thing you will be claiming is that the Holy
Roman Empire will not have primacy in Europe, and that the sun will set on
the French Empire

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:43:41 +0800
From: Michael Bailey <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: T IV - speculation

I must admist, the 'alternate timeline' proposed for T IV does make for
some interesting spectulation, all other consequences aside...

Capital/Core (2118 A586A98-F)	132-1116

An attempt has been made on the life of Emperor Strephon Aella Alkalkikhoi,
at 1517 hours local time, in the Grand Reception Hall of the Imperial
Palace above Capitasl/Code.  Archduke Dilnor of Illelish attempted to
assasinate the Emperor, but the attempt was thwarted by the bravery of the
Aslan Terlyaruiwo ambassador and the resourcefulness of the Imperial Guard.

The plot only became known to Imperial security forces shortly before the
attempt, who acted swiftly and decisively to prevent the assasination.
Archduke Dulinor did managed to fire off several rounds at the Emperor, but
these were intercepted by the Aslan ambassador, who was mortally wounded in
the exchange.  Emperor Strephon returned fire, killing the Archduke and his
aide.

Capital has been placed under martial law.  Off-planet transportation has
been suspended temporarily.  A few minutes ago, an Imperial spokesman
confirmed the assasination attempt, and stated that further arrests have
been made.

The body of the Aslan Terlyaruiwo lies in state in the central Hall of
Nobles beneath the Moot spire.


Capital/Core (2118 A586A98-F)	133-1116

Emperor Strephon appeared briefly in public this morning, and read a short
statement:

'An assasination attempt against our person and our family has been
thwarted by bravery and quick thinking.  Despite all preparations, the
attempt may well have been successful if not for the brave sacrifice of the
Aslan Terlyaruiwo ambassador.  The attempt may have been part of a wider
plot against the Imperium by forces loyal to the Archduke of Illelish,
Imperial authorities are investigating this possibility.'

The Emperor went on to add that the Imperial Navy is being placed on full
alert, and that martial law on Capital would continue until the security
situation becomes clearer.  He ended his address with a brief appeal for
calm, and called on all Imperial citizens to pray for the Aslan ambassador.

A spokesman for the Emperor added that full details of the incident wouyld
be made available to the press as soon as security concerns permit.




....speculation, to be sure, but fascinating nonetheless...


Michael Bailey
mickb@opera.iinet.net.au
				
pillock-at-large and proud supporter of the Chelsea FC and Fremantle AFL
Clubs!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:15:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: FF&S - How is it?

You wrote: 
>
>Hello all. I just recently rejoined the land of the living (graduated
>Marine boot camp Friday), so I've been out of touch for a while.

COngratulations.

>	Has anyone gotten ahold of the new FF&S? I was helping playtest 

Yes.

it
>before I left, so I am really curious to see how it turned out. 

Not so bad, although some of the really neat gearhead stuff seems to 
have been a bit simplified.  And of course the usual IG quota of 
misprints.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:20:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re:dan lane

You wrote: 

>have been cut, to what I consider critical levels.  (What is the current
>multi-conflict doctrine anyway?  I know it is no longer Win/Win)

Forget what they call it in official terms, but it's 'Win/Stall until 
we get the forces from the first war in place'

>My last year in the Nav (3 years ago) I kept hearing how training and
>maintenance funds were being diverted to operational funding.

I recall seeing on TV a few years back a gentleman who's squadron of 
naval aircraft had been but on a no-flying status as a result of lack 
of funds.

>And gosh, having spent a *short* time as a drilling reservist, I saw that
>the reserve forces are being called up in ever increasing numbers to
>offset the shortfall of active duty units.  As a matter of fact, a friend
>of mine in the Army Reserve has been called for duty in Bosnia, another
>acquaintence just got back.  Again, another reservist.

A batallion of my division has been activated, and the rest of us are 
unofficially been told that 'any time now' for us.  And I'm in a 
National Guard division.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:11:15 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> Starships *won't* be as fragile as aircraft. Given the power of a
> typical drive, it's *worth* the extra money to run things in conduits
> and to use thicker wall and floor material. Aircraft tend to get metal
> fatigue in as little as 10 years. Starships are (according to the
> books) still fine after *40* years. That *requires* that they be built
> more along the lines of a seagoing vessel than an aircraft.
> 


I agree with just about everything you said. Just a minor tweak though.
Starships, especially the larger ones, can keep going for over a 
century if proper maintenance is done. I wouldn't expect to see
privately owned ships lasting that long, but the excellent work done
in Navy maintenance yards ensures the longevity of their ships.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:32:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex

You wrote: 

>It has always seemed to me that the Empress Irene (who actually went by
>the title Emperor) would make a good noble villain for a Traveller
>campaign.  This would preferably not be as Empresss of the Third
>Imperium, deity forbid, (although she might make a Good Emperor of the
>Flag) but rather as the head of a pocket empire, or perhaps as a TNE
>TED.  Anyone who would put their own sons eyes out to hold onto power
>would be frighteningly ruthless to a group of players (if you are a
>really twisted GM you could make Irene a noble charecters mother). 

THat would be a little sick.  But Byzantine history (and that of many 
other eras) provides a wealth of ideas for a good GM.  I mean, David 
Drake has made a career of translating the Byzantine Empire into 
Fantasy and SF milleus, why can't you?  Although my favorite is the 
General series.  Which provides some interesting ideas, too.  Imagine a 
culture where computor chips are sacred icons, the words angel and AI 
are synonymous, and people hope to be 'downloaded into the orbit of 
fulfillment' when they die.  Cargo plane culture.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:07:58 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

Douglas wrote:
> 
> Having experienced both Naval vessels and Luxury Liners, I would tend to
> disagree with you.  Naval and Scout vessels will not cover up their
> piping, wire conduits, and the like (except where contact with those
> components represents a safety hazard) for two reaons.  1) Access to those
> components for maintenance and damage control and 2) (possibly the
> overriding reason) It costs money to cover those components and these
> ships are built by _the_lowest_bidder_!  Cargo vessels would be mixed, but
> I've yet to see a cargo ship on the ocean that looked like it had any but
> the most basic of maintence performed on it.  I tend to think that, if
> there is any construction/design difference, it would be that the safety
> items may be omitted to save money...  Passenger-carrying vessels are
> another class entirely - how they look and feel will, to a great extent,
> determine how profitable they are.  The one liner I've been on (visiting
> from a cruiser, it was quite a shock) looked more like a high class hotel
> than a ship, from the inside.
> 
> Still, from the point of damage, I imagine that the panels covering the
> electrical and fluidic components are not that thick, and these components
> would be vulnerable to damage on any class of ship.
> 

Excellent points. Now, how does one fit this into the game's combat rules?
Let's say X and Y are in a gunfight with each other in a corridor.
X fires at Y and misses, with HE ammo. How does one determine what
happens
to the shot?

It'd be nice to have the combat system handle it. I'm most familiar with 
the CT and MT rules and I know that they don't handle where that HE
bullet went. If you're in Engineering, the Bridge or somewhere else,
the destination of the bullet is easier to determine. However, if you're
sitting in a corridor somewhere, who knows what those mysterious
conduits contain?

The MT rules contain a chart for determining the effects, on a vehicle,
of being hit with weaponry. However, this chart is intended for 
hits from outside the vehicle. I guess we need a chart for internal
hits, with subcharts for location (living area, bridge, engineering,
life support and so on).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:35:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

You wrote: 

>The satellite in question was launched prior to the war, and contained
>important meterological data.  The United States was nuked in 1997, invaded
>by Mexico and the Soviet Divison Cuba, and had a three way civil war going
>with the majority of its military stranded overseas.

What I find wierd is the idea of a three-way civil war.  Circumstances 
that would induce the Military to revolt. . . ???

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:40:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?

>If _I_ remember right, there were two types of XBoats (in 1116).
>
>- The standard ones, which everyone knew about and used - these were Jump-4.
>
>- The secret ones, which only high level government people knew about.
>These were Jump-6, and were (for eg) how Noris knew about the assassination
>before the general public did.

You remember partially right. XBoats were Jump-4, end of story.  However,
Imperiallines, a tramp merchant corporation was owned (through untraceable
stock holdings and dummy corps etc...) by the Palace of the Emperor.  They
had top-secret Jump-6 (TJ Class) disguised as their normal Jump-2 freighters
(TI Class).  These ships carried equipment and Imperial agents and
information around for the Imperium.

However, these were not part of the XBoat network. They weren't what is
termed an Express Boat, and they didn't follow XBoat routes.  They weren't
owned by the IISS (they were owned by the branch of the palace that handled
the Emperor's transportation), and finally, they look nothing like XBoats and
had different tonnage.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:46:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

You wrote: 

>I'm thinking of the atmosphere in an indoor firing range, where my eyes are
>watering and my nose is running, and then imagining what it would be like
>if the space were half the volume, and the air was recycling in a closed
>loop.  Military vessels nmay be able to handle such things, but a 

There is no ventilation (or damn near) on most ranges I've been on 
(excepting open-air ones).  However, a significant percentage of a 
starship's mass is devoted to this.  You are thinking modern, fragile 
spacecraft.  But TL-12 spacecraft are as far beyond the Space Shuttle 
as the Lexus is above the Model T.  It's a mature technology which 
means it's pretty robust.

>>  That raises the question of what the Guild was thinking
>>when it designed the Decksweeper.  (Yes, TNE.)
>
>Could that be a gauss weapon, which my comments specifically would not
>apply to?

It's a TL5 9mm SMG with an integral 2.5cm grenade launcher, typically 
loaded with TL-8 DS ammo and fitted with TL-8 laser sights.  I also 
direct you to the adventures in the Vampire Fleets supplement (TNE 
Virus sourcebook) wherein the only way to complete one of the 
adventures involved getting into a shipboard firefight using 2cm LAGs.

>My opinion differs.  I think that a large handgun or .45 caliber submachine
>gun will cause a significant breathing hazard if frequently and repeatedly
>fired in an enclosed space over the course of a 5-10 minute battle.

Part of it depends.  I imagine a boarding action to be rather brief 
(who would be dumb enough to board, if the enemy ship were not in dire 
straits) and moving pretty rapidly.

>Ok, lets take a RL scenario.  Take this gun...go on take it.  Ok lets get
>into my 747 here...watch the step...now I'll have the pilot take us to 40k
>feet.  Good.  Ok take shot at the bottom of the cabin.  No problem right?
>Wrong.  Ignoring the problems of a hull breach (The analogy breaks down at
>the hull since starship hulls are obviously well armored) you've just split
>open the hydrolic line from the cockpit to the wing.  Or perhaps you've
>severed a
>fuel line, or maybe just the "waitress call" button.  In any case, I have
>my lightweight parachute handy during the whole experiment.

OK, I'll do the same thing on the QE2.  Assuming I'm not in the 
engineering compartment or on the bridge, I will just frighten the 
passengers.  That's a more appropriate analogy.

>unreasonable rounds, like those from a 30 caliber machine gun and spewing
>them about the cabin of a starship will have multiple such effects, which
>can be both dangerous and expensive.

Boarding with a .30 cal would be counterproductive.  You need light, 
handy weaponry to fight in close quarters.  And if your opponent is 
weaing battledress, things get really complicated.  If your characters 
are firing fusion rifles inside a ship, feel free to cause gratuitous 
secondary damage.

>>Wearing battledress, however.  :)
>
>Unless it hasn't been properly maintained, in which case the character
>dislocates his shoulder while trying to move, and then gets stuck in place
>when the hydrolics shut down, leaving him stranded inside a half a ton of
>superdense.

Well, there is that.  But my thought is that if it's general issue to 
every troopie, it can't be that hard to maintain, assuming you've got 
any training.  

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 11:26:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: T:2300 Sim

>>Is it possible to get a copy of this simulation????
>>(Assuming that it had reliable rules, and was not the result of some
>>fudged free-form role-playing.)
>
>Oh, Loren......
>
>I always wondered, who played France?

I always wanted to see a copy of this simulation too :)

However, as to your "Who played France?" question, here's the rundown from
the "2300AD Adventurer's Guide":

John Astell (Mexico, Romania, India)
Rich Banner (Russia, Zimbabwe, Canada)
Kevin Brown (Cuba, the Ukraine, Australia)
Timothy B. Brown (United Kingdom, Algeria, Manchuria)
Larry Butz (Venezuela, Italy, Iran, Angola)
John Harshman (France, Argentina, Israel)
Dr. David MacDonald (Mil. Gov. of the U.S., Poland, Canton)
Marc W. Miller (Azania, Japan, Bolivia, Egypt)
Matt Renner (Civ. Gov. of the U.S., Sweden, Nigeria)
Wayne Roth (Brazil, Spain, Turkey)
Loren Wiseman (New America, Germany, Indonesia)
Frank Chadwick (referee and kibbitzing player)

So there you have it.  Now you know that John Harshman played France :)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:50:42 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 09:35 AM 9/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

>What I find wierd is the idea of a three-way civil war.  Circumstances 
>that would induce the Military to revolt. . . ???

What happened was after the nuclear spasm of Thanksgiving 1997, the US
Congress conviened and in an exceedingly irregular session, elected a
President.  The Joint Chiefs of Staff refused to accept the legitimacy of
the new government, and held that martial law was still in effect.

Many units defected to CivGov, and low intensity fighting broke out
nation-wide.  Add in the right-wing organization New America, which was
setting up a "Christian white peoples state", and you can see where it was
going to take a long time to rebuild.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:41:45 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?

Jason Anderson wrote:
> 
> >>>Ahem, the 'canon' xboat was jump-4, not jump-6.  Saves a lot of fuel space,
> >>>as well as drive space.
> >>
> >>Wrong answer!, the TL-15 Xboat was jump-6, it is from several "canon"
> >>sources.
> >>If you would like I can start quoting the sources.
> >
> >I believe that the other person who posted was absolutely correct.  Imperial
> >XBoats were Jump-4, not Jump-6.  Two examples:
> 
> If _I_ remember right, there were two types of XBoats (in 1116).
> 
> - The standard ones, which everyone knew about and used - these were Jump-4.
> 
> - The secret ones, which only high level government people knew about.
> These were Jump-6, and were (for eg) how Noris knew about the assassination
> before the general public did.

The secret ones weren't XBoats, they were covert freighters with J-6
drives installed.

I guess it needs to be explicitly stated that XBoats are the
"lightbulb-shaped 100 ton information couriers of the Imperium." *All*
of them were J-4.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:41:54 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller-long

Bill Hopper wrote:
> 
> > From:          CardSharks@aol.com
> >       ...The 100 Diameter Sphere. Jump uses a straight line in calculating courses.
> > If that straight line intersects a 100 diameter sphere around an object, the
> > ship is "precipitated out" of jump space. ...
> > ...
> 
> I do not like the idea that ships in jumpspace travel in straight
> lines in normal space.  It seems too like Star Trek or Star Wars.
> In Traveller, when you enter jumpspace, you exit from the
> regular universe and are unaffected by it until you re-enter.  The
> only time you should have to worry about masses in normal space are
> when you are entering and leaving jumpspace.  The problems entering
> jumpspace are well documented.  IMTU, if you try to jump too near or
> into a planet, etc., you will be precipitated out of jumpspace
> at c. 100 diameters with unpleasant consequences for your jump drives
> and crew/passengers.  It doesn't kill you, but it makes you feel that
> way for a while.

You've just contradicted yourself.

In Your Traveller Universe, if you try to jump too near to a planet, you
precipitate out at 100 diameters. Yet while in jumpspace, you are
unaffected by normal space! So how did jumpspace "know" that you should
precipitate out *before* you get close to the planet?

I think as long as the "straight line" rule is made clear, by
specifically stating that you are not actually travelling along that
straight line in normal space; that the line is only for determining
gravitational effects, then the rule is a fine one and simplifies
determination of the 100 dia. rule.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1812
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1813



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: While we're at it...
Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
IG - do some fixup now that FF&S 2 is out!
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Infantry
Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: getting stuff done
Re: GURPS Traveller and TNE
Re: Commentary
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative  trivia
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Monetary Economics
Re: Jump in Traveller-long
Re: T IV - speculation
Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: Milieu 0 Hardback Campaign
Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:57:15 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: While we're at it...

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:00:00 +2, RFXn wrote:

> 	I also saw a photo of that rifle fired in the dark. A pretty
> impressive sight, the muzzle flash was a fireball around 5'
> across...

So much for its role as a (covert) sniper rifle  :)

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:07:28 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

At 08:07 AM 9/12/97 -0600, you wrote:

>> Still, from the point of damage, I imagine that the panels covering the
>> electrical and fluidic components are not that thick, and these components
>> would be vulnerable to damage on any class of ship.
>> 
>
>Excellent points. Now, how does one fit this into the game's combat rules?
>Let's say X and Y are in a gunfight with each other in a corridor.
>X fires at Y and misses, with HE ammo. How does one determine what happens
>to the shot?

For T4, I'd say that a Spectacular Sucess/Failure would be a good
mechanism, depending on the circumstance.. i.e., your shot goes wild and
smacks a junction box, plunging the corridor into darkness.

On this idea, one of the silly rules that was suggested for TACS was the
"Enterprise Memorial Power Routing Rule"  All consoles, no matter what
their purpose, will explode in a shower of high voltage sparks when they,
or the ship, recives the slightest damage.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:21:43 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: IG - do some fixup now that FF&S 2 is out!

At 12:33 PM 9/12/97 +1000, you wrote:
>
>> 3g3 / FF&S2 inconsistencies
>
>Well if IG screwed up, then they should publish a fix like TNE did with
>'putting the heat back into plasma' where all books published afterwards
>had either corrected weapons or fixing notes...

Would be nice, wouldn't it.  I have a large stack of IG books I cannot
imagine using, because the data contained within is so far from reasonable
that I cannot adjust on the fly, and I do not have decent errata.

Again, I really hope that IG is listening, to the extent of fixing up
Starships, EA, and CSC to conform to FF&S 2.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:51:20 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

At 01:27 PM 9/11/97 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>> Note also that in my world, a merc band is responsible for site security,
>>> so it someone breaks into their ship and steals weapons not allowed at the
>>> current TL, the players are responsible for what is done with the weapons.
>>
>> Interesting. I see an adventure or two here ...
>
>And anybody who is trying to steal weapons from a merc outfit has *got*
>to be desperate or crazy. Which means that they will react in
>unexpected ways. 

Not always.  The bonding authorities and guild ratings exist to let
customers know what the capabilities and trustworthiness of various mercs
are, and to let the mercs know what they are getting in to if they hire
with a specific person.  The guild does this out of self interest - if
mercs are all piratical, or a piratical merc is hired by a ranking noble
who knows no better, laws could get passed that make the guild irrelevant
or illegal.

Given the spotty information, someone might have noticed that this podunk
little player ship without a marine guard has a merc license, which means
it is either undercover and dangerous, or just a bunch of yahoos who got a
license so they could buy heavy weapons.  If the latter, this could be
profitable.  If the former, it could be dangerous, so your attackers might
be well armed.

Or, they might be revolutionaries who cannot afford to pay the mercenaries,
but are just sure that the mercs will see the rightness of their cause.
Anyone see Air Force One?

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 18:44 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Infantry

In-Reply-To: <199709071013.LAA04156@tycho.global.net.uk>

MJ,

> Can anyone on the digest tell me where Dave Nilsen went after GDW vanished?

Fort Knox, IIRC.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:18:09 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

[snip Douglas' stuff]
>Excellent points. Now, how does one fit this into the game's combat rules?
[snip]
>It'd be nice to have the combat system handle it. I'm most familiar with
>the CT and MT rules and I know that they don't handle where that HE
>bullet went. If you're in Engineering, the Bridge or somewhere else,
>the destination of the bullet is easier to determine. However, if you're
>sitting in a corridor somewhere, who knows what those mysterious
>conduits
>contain?
>
>The MT rules contain a chart for determining the effects, on a vehicle,
>of being hit with weaponry. However, this chart is intended for
>hits from outside the vehicle. I guess we need a chart for internal
>hits, with subcharts for location (living area, bridge, engineering,
>life support and so on).

Nah too complicated  (What are you, a TNE'er?:).

If you don't like "referee should determine subsequent events..." then try
this on for size.

If a round fired inside or into the hatch of a space faring craft does
*not* hit its intended target then roll 2d;

DMs
Location is;
Corridor or Stateroom/General Purpose area :     No DM
Sickbay, Laboratory, Turret, Small craft bay, Cargo Bay or other special
purpose area :   +2
Computer room, Bridge, Engineering control room (if seperate from
Engineering proper) or other systemic control room :       +4
Engineering or other area with primary systems exposed :       +6

Weapon is
Shotgun loaded with pellets, any weapon with tranq or nonlethal rounds  -4
"normal" handgun (9mm auto pistol, 4mm gauss pistol)    -2
Automatic weapon 9mm or less (SMG, Assault Rifle)         -1
High Velocity Rifle (Gauss, 11mm SA rifle) or laser weapon
0
Heavy bulleted weapon (.50 cal rifle) or medium automatic wpn or
Armor Piercing round (HEAP or AP ACR round)                 +1
Grenade Launcher, Heavy Machine Gun on auto, Large (12mm-15mm) AP rounds   +2
High Energy Weapons (FGMP, PGMP), AP rocket launcher, Crew Served
anti-armor weapon (20mm autocannon, 75mm gun)  +4

Character
Made a spectacular failure when s/he missed          +2
ascertained what critical systems the target was in front of before firing   -2
Specified that s/he would attempt to avoid hitting important components   -3

Ricochets; Each entry may have a % chance to ricochet.  If a large number
of rounds are fired, do not roll, but instead choose the number of rounds
which ricochet according to the percentage.  i.e. if 5% ricochet and 20
rounds are fired, 1 round ricochets.  Ricochets should be resolved as an
average roll agains dex to avoid being hit *only* for those in thepath of
the ricochet.  Not that bullets may damage a component *then* ricochet to
do more damage elsewhere.  Energy weapons and exploding rounds do not
ricochet, but remember their danger space.

Roll      Effect
- -2    Round Ricochets automatically.
- -1    50% chance of round ricochet
0     No Effect, 30% ricochet
1     No Effect, 15% ricochet
2    No Effect, 10% ricochet
3    No Effect, 10% ricochet
4    No Effect, 5% ricochet
5    No Effect, 5% ricochet
6    No Effect, 5% ricochet
7    Minor Local enviro system damaged, but still operates, 5% ricochet
8    Minor Local enviro system damaged, but still operates, 10% ricochet
9    Minor Local enviro system damaged, inoperable, minor repairs needed;
10% ricochet
10   Local enviro system damaged, major repairs needed, system inoperable
11   System specific to this area damaged (if sickbay, medical eq damaged,
etc.), 10% ricochet
12   System specific to area seriously damaged, 5% ricochet
13   System specific to area explodes (if possible).
14   Multiple area specific systems take minor damage, 10% ricochet
15   Local minor hull breach.  Atmosphere begins to leak from area.
Airtight doos close in 1d minutes.
16   Major System (Manuver drive, life support, etc) takes minor damage,
still operable.  5% ricochet
17   Major System takes major damage, inoperable.
18   Major System destroyed or damaged beyond repair.
19   Major System caused to fail catastrophically.  Explosions or other
effects should fall short of immediately destroying the ship itself
20   Local major hull breach.  Airtight doors quickly close as the
atmosphere vents explosively.
21   Fusion Bottle or Plasma Conduit breached, room bathed in hot plasma,
ship explodes on 11+ on 2D.
For rolls over 21 increase chance of ship exploding by the number the roll
exceeds 21.  So a 22 explodes on 10+, a 13 explodes on a 9+, etc.

Consider systems to be things like control panels, communications systems,
low berths, boat bay hatch controls, ship's computer, medical equipment (be
specific), galley stove/oven, condiment bar, jump drive control system,
computer cable conduit, lighting fixture, temperature regulator, air
scrubber, turret actuator (what makes it go around), plumbing fixture,
septic conduit (there's a messy one), elevator/lift, iris valve control,
iris valve actuator, etc.

Try to be specific and apropriate to the area and direction of fire if
possible.  Deck plans are obviously important in this regard.

Hull breaches may vent atmosphere out, or Liquid Hydrogen in if near an
L-hyd tank.  Use deck plans to determine or roll d6, 1-2 = L-Hyd, 4-6 =
vacuum.

Note; Using this system will make firing a PGMP in Engineering quite
dangerous!  Battle Dress will not save you from high pressure superheated
plasma, and probably will not help in an explosive decompression.

It is also remotely possible for a character with a gauss rifle to create a
minor hull breach.  If they are that unlucky perhaps they should find
another game.  Please ignore any apparently impossible occurances.

For laughs, I occassionally dig out the I.C.E. books which have fabulously
entrtaining, if somewhat silly, critical hit & fumble tables along the
lines of the above.  Space Law and Tech Law are most apropos to Traveller.

Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:26:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

>I agree with most what you are saying about "let us be proud of America
>but not cram "America" down everyones gut" but feel the need to point
>out a few points on your above statement.

Woah, woah...  Slow down just a second.  I hope I didn't give the wrong
impression here.  I am very proud of America's forays into space, in fact, I
don't think we go there enough :)

>One.  The Apollo missions were no small cheeze--if fact I might even say
>that those involved-"got stuff done".

Absolutely, positively correct.  I wasn't implying that what we did was small
cheese, I was just pointing out that what the soviets did WASN'T small cheese
either.

>Secondly, seeing as there is a lot of space in space, there are lots of
>places to send probes--even back then US probes went to places the USSR
>probes did not.  Different space agencies probably have a different
>outlook on proritizing mission destinations.

Actually the specific situation I was talking about was a race between the
Sovs and the US to send a probe to Venus.  The American one didn't make it
but the Soviet one did.  There was also a race for a Martian probe, and the
Americans pulled that off and the Soviet probe couldn't.

Maybe then, in the late 60s early 70s we should have taken that as a hint and
worked together :)

>Finally, while I don't have any numbers, I have heard that in its
>endevors the expendability of human life was not as great a factor as in
>the US (space prog. for example--before challenger we had only lost
>three people (in an early apollo mission if I remember correcly).  As I
>said, I don't have any absolute numbers...but just from talking with
>people from the former Soviet Union its seems their numbers mign=ht be a
>little higher.)  Given the choice...whos program would you have wanted
>to be an astronaut/cosmonaut in?

I don't have the figures for whose space program killed more people.
However, the soviet space program relied more on people, and as a result, I
don't doubt the numbers were higher.  Whether the numbers were a little or
alot is another thing entirely.  I don't know.

I however, still am pissed off about the interview they had with a guy from
NASA on TV.  They asked the guy from NASA about the planned US manned space
station, and he said that they were working on it.  Then, the interviewer
said that Mir was up and had been up for awhile and he replied, "But Mir is
nothing more than a tin-can in space!"

And this was a guy that NASA employed.

Geez...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:56:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Ayers <mark@bbic.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller and TNE

>NOTE:  WHAT FOLLOWS IS PURE SPECULATION ON MY PART, AND IS NOT BASED ON
>ANY KNOWN FACT.

Here, Here!

#include<iostream> // SPAM is illegal
int main(void) {	
    cout << "Net Admin for the Book and Bean Internet Cafe\tadmin@bbic.com\n";
    cout << "Traveller referee for Metro Seattle Gamers\tmark@bbic.com\n";
    return (8);
}

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:36:55 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Commentary

> > Your comments are disrespecful, off-topic, and insulting.
> And half this list isn't?
> 

Actually I think that the vast majority of this list are respectful
of others' opinions, courteous and polite. 

> If you want to flame about this, mail me privately.
> What the hell fun is that?
> <chant mode on>
> we want public flamings, we want public flamings, we want public flamings,
> we want public flamings
> <chant mode off>

Speaking for me personally (and how else can I speak): no, I don't
want public flamings. If it's not related to Traveller, take it
elsewhere please. If it is related to Traveller but isn't polite
and civil, I'd just as soon not read it here.

Erwin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:07:22 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

> perhaps a "scooter" for moving around the outside of a ship could be 
> 2t with just a seat.

Fireball XL5 returns :-)

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:07:20 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

> Roughly, you figure that the property (call it X) is calculated like this:
>  
> X = GM/(r^3)

Excellent.  This was the system I calculated many years ago while working 
overseas - I had always intended to use it in my traveller games, but never got 
a suitable group together.  It shall re-enter my house rules immediately.

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:07:29 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative  trivia

> They are listed in the "dangerous persons" directory

What a great chance to boast:-)

Boaster 1: Hey, don't mess with me, my hands are registered with the police
           as deadly weapons.
           
Boaster 2: So?  My entire body is registered across the Imperium, along 
           with my trusty PGMP.           


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:07:26 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

> it does mean, for example, that a TL-20 internal combustion
> engine has approximately the same characteristics as a TL-8 internal
> combustion engine. You can reach a limit of improvement for any specific
> device independent of tech increases.

I think I disagree with this.  Just think of the compression ratios you could 
achieve with bonded superdense engine blocks :-)


One of the things that bugged me about MT and FFS design sequences is that there 
is no TL advances for fission and internal combustion at higher TL.  One of the 
"feelings" I get from many of my favorite SciFi books is that there should be 
such a progession.  While fusion, or fusion+, may be the technology of choice at 
TL 13, I still believe that small fission-driven chainsaws or alcohol fuel-cell 
powered snow-mobiles have the right feel for so many settings.

My CSC design program (Win 3.1 or later) is coming along nicely, and will include 
optional "deviant" designs that allow you to use my view of high tech versions of 
internal combustion, fission (particularly minimum power plant sizes) and so on.

In CSC the "power plant + one years fuel" was strongly in favour of fission (in 
terms of Credits).  I have not repeated the sums for FFS 2, where fusions fuels 
seem to be (sensibly) cheaper than CSC. In a TL12 society (buying a CSC car) I 
see the fission / fusion debate as similar to the current diesel / petrol 
(gasoline) debate in current cars.  Diesel models cost more initially, but save 
you a lot in fuel costs over the years.  With such an economic incentive, the 
fission powerplant would continue to be developed, at the very least allowing 
smaller minimum sizes at higher TL.  All IMO of the future, of course :-).


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:58:41 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > In the technologically and economically advanced Imperium, perhaps the
> > whole notion of currency self-replication through compound interest
> > would be seen as incredibly backward and barbaric. Would such a system
> > even be viable in when information travel times are measured in weeks
> > and months?
> 
> Interest is a *service*, rather than a good. Specificly, Interest is
> the fee you get paid for the "service" of allowing the bank to use your
> money. They make loans, collect interest on them, and part of that
> interest gets paid to you.
> 
> Likewise, interest on a loan is the price you are paying to use someone
> else's money.

I have no problem with interest per se, I understand it as a "service
fee" for use of money, I have a problem with the current implementation
of interest.

If I were to lend $100 and if interest were a fee, I would say "I'm
giving you $100, and I'd like you to pay me $5 a month until you pay it
back." You would know that if you paid me back in one year, you would
have given me $160 in total.

As it works now, another "service fee" in the form of compound interest
is tacked on the $5. I'm "lending" you another $5 (that I may or may not
have) so that you may pay me, with yet another service fee for a service
I did not provide. Can some economist explain to me why (if?) it *has*
to be that way? 

> Like I said, it's no sillier than getting paid for providing any other
> service.

If I were paid according to the rules of compound interest, I would be a
millionaire by now. _Compound_ interest serves no purpose but to line
bankers' pockets with money. Maybe I'm being naive...

> I'm amazed at the number of people who don't understand this. Of
> course, most people tend to think of money as being real in and of
> itself, rather than a means of "keeping score" in the economy.

IMHO, it is the currency speculators and certain other cogs in the
economic wheel who have corrupted in some way, the original purpose of
money: they have changed it into a "good" in and of itself.

Admittedly, my knowledge of economics is superficial, but I fail to
understand how compounding interest fosters a healthy economy.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:57:34 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller-long

Glenn Hoppe wrote:
> 
> In Your Traveller Universe, if you try to jump too near to a planet, you
> precipitate out at 100 diameters. Yet while in jumpspace, you are
> unaffected by normal space! So how did jumpspace "know" that you should
> precipitate out *before* you get close to the planet?
> 
> I think as long as the "straight line" rule is made clear, by
> specifically stating that you are not actually travelling along that
> straight line in normal space; that the line is only for determining
> gravitational effects, then the rule is a fine one and simplifies
> determination of the 100 dia. rule.

I don't see the contradiction. While in jumpspace, you are unaffected
by realspace gravitational forces (and everything else in realspace,
for that matter).

When you enter jumpspace, the conditions must be right to establish
a jump field around your ship. One of these conditions is the absence
of significant gravitational force. This requirement applies when 
you're in realspace.

When you exit jumpspace, there must still be an absence of 
gravitational force in order for you to enter normal space.

There is (must be) a difference between the jump field that you use
while in jumpspace (which just keeps the realspace bubble around
your ship from interacting with jumpspace) and the field you
use to enter/exit jumpspace. Why?

Assume we go with the model of jump drives posted to the TML a few 
months ago. This model holds that the jump fuel is constantly pumped out 
of the ship while in jumpspace and this fuel "pushes" the jumpspace away 
from the ship.

When entering jumpspace, simply pumping vast quantities of hydrogen
out of your ship won't get you anywhere. Something else is going on.
This Something Else (SE) requires the absence of gravitational 
forces of signficance.

When leaving jumpspace, one must either do the SE again or some
variant (like, reverse SE) to shift back to realspace. Thus, the
absence of gravitational forces is a condition here too.

Just my two bits.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:08:24 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: T IV - speculation

Can't we all pretend the USS Enterprise did the old Sun-Slingshot thing or follow the Borg 
type time travelling and ended up preventing the assassination??? <VBG>


On 12 Sep 97 at 15:43, Michael Bailey wrote:

Date sent:      	Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:43:41 +0800
To:             	traveller@MPGN.COM
From:           	Michael Bailey <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject:        	T IV - speculation
Send reply to:  	traveller@MPGN.COM

> I must admist, the 'alternate timeline' proposed for T IV does make for
> some interesting spectulation, all other consequences aside...
> 
> Capital/Core (2118 A586A98-F)	132-1116
> 
> An attempt has been made on the life of Emperor Strephon Aella
> Alkalkikhoi,
>  at 1517 hours local time, in the Grand Reception Hall of the Imperial
> Palace above Capitasl/Code.  Archduke Dilnor of Illelish attempted to
> assasinate the Emperor, but the attempt was thwarted by the bravery of the
> Aslan Terlyaruiwo ambassador and the resourcefulness of the Imperial
> Guard.
> 
> The plot only became known to Imperial security forces shortly before the
> attempt, who acted swiftly and decisively to prevent the assasination.
> Archduke Dulinor did managed to fire off several rounds at the Emperor,
> but these were intercepted by the Aslan ambassador, who was mortally
> wounded in the exchange.  Emperor Strephon returned fire, killing the
> Archduke and his aide.
> 
> Capital has been placed under martial law.  Off-planet transportation has
> been suspended temporarily.  A few minutes ago, an Imperial spokesman
> confirmed the assasination attempt, and stated that further arrests have
> been made.
> 
> The body of the Aslan Terlyaruiwo lies in state in the central Hall of
> Nobles beneath the Moot spire.
> 
> 
> Capital/Core (2118 A586A98-F)	133-1116
> 
> Emperor Strephon appeared briefly in public this morning, and read a short
> statement:
> 
> 'An assasination attempt against our person and our family has been
> thwarted by bravery and quick thinking.  Despite all preparations, the
> attempt may well have been successful if not for the brave sacrifice of
> the Aslan Terlyaruiwo ambassador.  The attempt may have been part of a
> wider plot against the Imperium by forces loyal to the Archduke of
> Illelish, Imperial authorities are investigating this possibility.'
> 
> The Emperor went on to add that the Imperial Navy is being placed on full
> alert, and that martial law on Capital would continue until the security
> situation becomes clearer.  He ended his address with a brief appeal for
> calm, and called on all Imperial citizens to pray for the Aslan
> ambassador.
> 
> A spokesman for the Emperor added that full details of the incident wouyld
> be made available to the press as soon as security concerns permit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...speculation, to be sure, but fascinating nonetheless...
> 
> 
> Michael Bailey
> mickb@opera.iinet.net.au
> 
> pillock-at-large and proud supporter of the Chelsea FC and Fremantle AFL
> Clubs!
> 
> 


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:09:40 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 

> >
> >Excellent points. Now, how does one fit this into the game's combat
> >rules?
> >Let's say X and Y are in a gunfight with each other in a corridor.
> >X fires at Y and misses, with HE ammo. How does one determine what
> >happens
> >to the shot?
> 
> For T4, I'd say that a Spectacular Sucess/Failure would be a good
> mechanism, depending on the circumstance.. i.e., your shot goes wild and
> smacks a junction box, plunging the corridor into darkness.
> 

Spectacular failure will work for MT as well. However, one still needs
a table to look up exactly what ship's component gets affected by
the bullet. 

Perhaps treating it as a starship combat hit would work. The MT
rules use the old High Guard table to determine hits. One of those
is the Internal Explosion table. A major mishap could use that one
and minor mishaps could use that one with half damage.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 21:07 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Milieu 0 Hardback Campaign

In-Reply-To: <l03102800b03e2f94f51a@[131.217.29.75]>

> >Has anyone received their copy yet?
>  
> No, although my credit card was charged back in July(!) for it. I gather it
> has finally been released though, so hopefully IG will hurry up and send
> them out to us.

Same here, which is why I asked. My first reply from IG implied that it had 
been sent a while ago, but they finally admitted that it hadn't been posted 
until yesterday (7 weeks after charging my CC).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 21:07 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?

In-Reply-To: <970912103847_-902028399@emout12.mail.aol.com>

> >If _I_ remember right, there were two types of XBoats (in 1116).
> >
> >- The standard ones, which everyone knew about and used - these were Jump-4.
> >
> >- The secret ones, which only high level government people knew about.
> >These were Jump-6, and were (for eg) how Noris knew about the assassination
> >before the general public did.
>  
> You remember partially right. XBoats were Jump-4, end of story.  However,
> Imperiallines, a tramp merchant corporation was owned (through untraceable
> stock holdings and dummy corps etc...) by the Palace of the Emperor.  They
> had top-secret Jump-6 (TJ Class) disguised as their normal Jump-2 freighters
> (TI Class).  These ships carried equipment and Imperial agents and
> information around for the Imperium.
>  
> However, these were not part of the XBoat network. They weren't what is
> termed an Express Boat, and they didn't follow XBoat routes.  They weren't
> owned by the IISS (they were owned by the branch of the palace that handled
> the Emperor's transportation), and finally, they look nothing like XBoats and
> had different tonnage.

Naval Fleet Couriers were also J-6 (see Supp 9).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1813
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1814



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Guns and explosives inside a starships (was: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Monetary Economics
Re: Commentary
Re: Historical events
Aslan
Reactionaries!
Re: France in 2300
Re: Replys [sic]
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
T IV - speculation
Traveller Fiction.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:07:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Guns and explosives inside a starships (was: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Erwin Fritz wrote:

> Excellent points. Now, how does one fit this into the game's combat
> rules?
> Let's say X and Y are in a gunfight with each other in a corridor.
> X fires at Y and misses, with HE ammo. How does one determine what
> happens
> to the shot?

Depends.  While I was pointing out that there are many things that can be
damaged, they would mostly be out of the line of fire (above passageways, 
in wiring closets, etc). For aimed fire, I would be tend not to be lethal
in most cases...except in engineering or control spaces.  

For automatic fire, area effect weapons, toys that go boom when they hit,
plasma/fusion weapons,  etc... Well, that's why we are adored by our
players, isn't it?  (heh, heh, heh)  I've killed ships because of gunfire
around the main L-HYD feeds, and the repair bill for replacing 2 nodes of
the computer due to a grenade was...impressive.


> 
> It'd be nice to have the combat system handle it. I'm most familiar with 
> the CT and MT rules and I know that they don't handle where that HE
> bullet went. If you're in Engineering, the Bridge or somewhere else,
> the destination of the bullet is easier to determine. However, if you're
> sitting in a corridor somewhere, who knows what those mysterious
> conduits
> contain?
> 
> The MT rules contain a chart for determining the effects, on a vehicle,
> of being hit with weaponry. However, this chart is intended for 
> hits from outside the vehicle. I guess we need a chart for internal
> hits, with subcharts for location (living area, bridge, engineering,
> life support and so on).
> 

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:12:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, John Atkinson wrote:

> You wrote: 
> 
> >The satellite in question was launched prior to the war, and contained
> >important meterological data.  The United States was nuked in 1997, 
> invaded
> >by Mexico and the Soviet Divison Cuba, and had a three way civil war 
> going
> >with the majority of its military stranded overseas.
> 
> What I find wierd is the idea of a three-way civil war.  Circumstances 
> that would induce the Military to revolt. . . ???

All the ones they use in cheap political thrillers today...the Military
takes over to "Clean up things and save the country".

I haven't read the T2k stuff in a long time but the deal went like: US
gets into WWIII...it doesn't turn into a cakewalk but bogs down horribly.
The US mainland is nuked, the military declares martial law for the
duration. The war drags on, things are getting bad in the US. The tatters
of the civilian government decide to declare military rule over, so the US
can just walk away from the war in Europe that isn't going anywhere. Part
of this involves essentially abandoning the remnants of the US military
overseas because we just can't afford to get them home. 

Milgov doesn't like this, not even slightly, Civgov tells 'em shut up and
obey us, Milgov says no and boom they're off and fighting. Meanwhile the
New America, folks, declaring that neither Civgov (remnants of the old
Washington government) or the now revolting Milgov (de facto military
dicatorship)  are the legitimate government of the US. If you think this
is far fetched, you haven't spent _any_ time listening to what is going on
in the 'heartland' of the US.  Both Civgov and Milgov try to supress the
'rebels' and we have a three way civil war. In reality, in the wrecked
country that exists in T2k, there really isn't much of a _war_ going on as
much as a country divided amng three factions, with some skirmishing going
on.

Never underestimate how much a "limited" nuclear exchange can wreck a
country, since that exchange will almost certainly take out major
economic, governmental and military targets.

If only Washington, New York and Chicago were hit, things would really
bite in the rest of the country for quite a while...what happens to your
lovely stock portfolio that forms the basis of your wealth when Wall
Street gets vaporized?

What happens if Washinton is nuked with everyone in town?

Answer...first, the military takes over, since they have the only
well-dispersed command structure immediately available. The various State
governors can _try_ to mobilize the Guard, but since we're in a big war
with the rest of the world, most of the Guard units are on active duty.

So we're left with state governments, the military command structure and
some bureaucrats, and Congresscritters who happened to be out of town.
Quick! who's 34th in succession to the Presidency?

Depending on the political climate, a number of states might well take
this as an ideal time to redefine the relationship between the central
government and themselves. This is,in fact, the probable origin of the New
America faction.

Also, the invasion of the Southwest by Mexico is not as far fetched as one
might think...Most of New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California _were_
parts of Mexico that the US took by force of arms or force of economy. A
chance to sieze these areas back, along with the economic assets (imagine
Mexico's economy if they suddenly acquired much of Motorola's and Intel's
fab capacity to name only a few of the goodies)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:06:53 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

At 02:08 AM 9/12/97 -0400, John MacPherson wrote:
>
>
>Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu> said:
> > Watch this model when generalizing to a non static economy, where it is
not
>> immediately obvious just how many coconuts are in circulation, which makes
>> it hard to know how much money should be out there as well.
>
>	Right, this is why all the attention is paid to wholesale 
>inventories, manufacturing orders, new housing starts, etc.

>> >>         What central banks need to do is keep the money supply
matched up
>> >> with the amount of goods in the economy.  If the economy is growing
at 2%
>> >> per annum, then the money supply should grow at 2% per annum.  This
keeps
>> >> price levels where they were.
>> 
>> Depends on the philosophy of the central bank.  Some have believed that all
>> you need to do to have more prosperity is print more money.  this, in
>> theory, causes inflation, which wipes out loans, but makes it easier for
>> the new group of people earning salaries normed to the new worth of money
>> to buy the goods and services they need, at the cost of taking the services
>> away from people who earned at the older worth of money.
>
>	I don't think there are many banks left that do this.
>International currency and investment flows are big enough and volatile 
>enough that, especially for small countries, monkeying with the 
>macroeconomics leads to the flight of foreign capital and a big economic 
>crash.  Look what happened to Mexico a few years ago when they tried to 
>prop up the peso beyond its real value.  The same thing is happening 
>right now in Malaysia.

Thankfully!  It is a great way to destabilize an economy.  On the other
hand, i have heard this used as a means of social change - if money is
worth a lot less than goods, which can happen if there is high inflation,
then people are encouraged to save little, and buy lots of durable goods.
If, on the other hand, you have a relatively stable currency, then money
tends to pool a lot more.  High inflation discourages borrowing, which
means that those with the means of production will try very hard to keep it
from spending any real amount of time as actual money, and instead will try
to use the means of production directly to make more goodies.

For example, if you are extremely wealthy, then you own means of producing
wealth.  To the extent that you own factories and other means of production
that move in lockstep, how many dollars something costs is not nearly as
important as that the dollars you pay and the dollars you get be near the
same value.  When you need to sell something, or you need more money for a
factory, you have a problem, because the loan is written in todays dollars,
while the money paying it off is in tomorrows.

>	In Trav, I get the feeling that interstellar trade and investment 
>flows are not such a big deal.  This allows a lot of local variation in 
>economic institutions.

I have a different approach than many - I have ruled that high tech goods
require a certain population to be contributing.  I feel that it takes
about a million people to support a functioning TL7 economy, about 10
million to support a TL9 economy, a hundred million for TL11, a billion for
TL13, and 10 billion people supporting a TL15 economy.  If your culture is
into increased automation, then these numbers can be reduced, while a "hand
built" culture will need more than these.

These people do not need to be on the same planet, and in fact, usually are
not.  As long as ~5-10% of the needed goods are coming in, they need only
local supply.  This means that off world trade is not terribly critical to
the economy as a whole, but it is very critical for the long term survival
of the economy.

This is also how I explain the long night.  The Vilani had a masterful
administrative and cultural structure in which someone weeks away could
ship goods, knowing that they would likely be needed.  This allowed them to
both keep planetary populations fairly low and to use J1 drives for most
commerce nets.

> > This returns us to the days when a
>> traveller carried a letter of introduction and a letter of credit from a
>> major banking family.
>
>	How do you think things like complicated encryption schemes would 
>change this system?

I think they would enhance the utility of this kind of system.  The letter
of introduction then becomes an elaborate coded message to others in the
know.  The delivery of keys and trusted serial numbers would be a bit
problematic, but data is awfully small - a single CD ROM today can contain
650,000 keys that are 8096 bits long, which could well be enough for quite
some weeks of billion credit transactions.  Smaller transactions, I assume
should be handled locally.

If they have a keyed encryption scheme, which would be difficult to break,
then they might well have a whole array of one time pads or dual key
encryption schemes, which could them provide near absolute proof of
validity for important documents.  I have something like this in use on all
Imperial star craft - a set of validation codes that are attached to nearly
every important communication, and which are kept updated at and by Naval
bases.

For this to work, the entity doing the credit management needs to have the
highest technology available, which I assume the Imperium has for a very
long time.  The techniques are likely known to those who want to find them
out, because someone would have defected.  Thus, you need a scheme that is
robust, even knowing the algorithm and some of the keys.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:31:10 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Commentary

Glenn Crawford wrote

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> > Remember that the last war America fought on it's own, we lost.

> WHAT? I mean that. WHAT? This is a gross insult to the very brave South
> Koreans, Thais, and Australians that joined America in the Vietnam war.

I was assuming that Doug was refering to The U.S. Civil War (not
Vietnam) when he said that the last war we fought on our own we lost.
After all we must mean The Confederacy :)

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:38:18 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Historical events

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
>                         HISTORICAL EVENT GENERATOR
>                         ==========================
> 

Nice work, Hans.  It is good to see usable, game related info on the
TML.

Big pat on the back from this end of the TML.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:54:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Aslan

	Each Aslan is a member of a clan, which determines his or her family ties.
	Each clan name can have many different variations, but always begins with
the same two sounds.
	Although all clans are technically patriarchies, some afford a greater
degree of clan power to females. Clan names beginning with a vowel are more
female oriented.
	Clan Generation. Roll 1D for the column to use in Clan Name Generation. Then
roll 1D for the row and 1D for the column to find the specific initial sound.
 Using the next table in the same column, roll for the second sound. 

`What are the names of the 29 in about 100 Imperial?

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 13:32:29 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Reactionaries!

Why does everyone seem to hate TNE? I thought it was a marvelous idea - so
much so that I broke the habit of a decade and actually bought it! Could it
be that some of us were afraid of something new?

What's good about the M0 background? I'd say it's the 'wide open' feeling,
the fact that three guys in a scout can make a difference, the challenge of
exploring the unknown (Yes, I loved Leviathan for that reason) TNE was in
many ways very similar to the M0 background. Trying to rebuild the Imperium
after the Long Night? Or after the Collapse? What's the difference? 

I have played and loved every version of Traveller. I'm not biased. I
created a different rules system to run games with, but used the Trav
background. Later I reverted to using the printed rules. It was still
Traveller, even though I changed the combat system every week. MT was still
Traveller, TNE and M4 are still Traveller. So why do some of us spend so
much time slagging off each other's preferred version? Why not acknowledge
the difference in taste and get on with it. I know people who complained
that GDW was trying to sell the same game three times when TNE came out but
who then went out and bought T4!

What's going on?

Does anyone know why the Imperium fell? 
Strephon was assassinated? Big deal. 
The Hivers did it? Maybe.

The real, simple reason why the Imperium fell, why Rome fell, was this:

THEIR CITIZENS LET IT HAPPEN!

The good citizens of the Imperium were too busy squabbling over their
differences to see what was coming. When it happened, they were too busy
blaming one another to do anything about it.
I'm sure there's an analogy there somewhere if you look for it!

My point is this: We are all Traveller fans. Why are we bickering among
ourselves about which version was good or bad? Sure, there are holes in all
of them, but the came itself is worthy. If Imperium go down, will SJG save
Traveller? Will it be what we want from Traveller anyway? Will there be a
sad succession of T5, T6 etc, gradually diluting the fandom below survival
level?

Not if we don't let it happen.

Like I said before - don't keep the flame, set fire to things!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:19:15 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: France in 2300

> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>

> "The Third World War" by Gen Sir John Hackett, IIRC.

Gen. Hackett was second in command of the British paratroop division at
Arnhem during Operation Market Garden, I believe.  The book is an
excellent read.  

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:22:39 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Replys [sic]

> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> > On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Glenn M. Goffin, Esq. wrote:
> >
> >> Loren, inasmuch as your chances of winning are essentially the same
> >> whether you buy a ticket or not, you might as well just accept that
> >> frustration and grow from it.  --Glenn
 
> Hey, 0 goes into 1/1,000,000,000 an infinite number of times! I'd call
> infinite "considerably greater". :-)

I guess it's true, then, that the lottery is a tax on people who aren't
good at math.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:10:01 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

> From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>

> Personally, I cannot understand why there is a table for nukes at all.  I
> cannot see implementing the game effects and making a determination other
> than "target destroyed" if a hit is made with a nuke warhead (short of
> starship combat anyway).  I suppose it would be nice to know how much of
> the city is left (blast radius), or what direction the wreckage flies off
> in, but tis all pretty moot.  I would implement the results in a less
> structured way myself.  I suppose there is an argument for completeness, or
> land-battleship combat (ala Bolo), but that's not really very
> travelleresque.  Oops, got into a tangent there.

The table for nukes is very important, both for wargaming (because
different amounts of damage affect units at different distances from
ground zero) and for role-playing.  A role-playing example would be a
situation where the PCs are trying to figure out whether a nuke was
used, and if so, how big it was.  The reasons for the interest might be
to determine whether the Imperial rules of war were violated or what
level of threat they or their employer might be facing.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:57:06 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: T IV - speculation

> From: Michael Bailey <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>

> I must admist, the 'alternate timeline' proposed for T IV does make for
> some interesting spectulation, all other consequences aside...
> 
> Capital/Core (2118 A586A98-F)   132-1116
> 
> An attempt has been made on the life of Emperor Strephon Aella Alkalkikhoi,
 
> Capital has been placed under martial law.  Off-planet transportation has

Thereafter, martial law is never lifted.  The central government starts
a purge of suspected co-conspirators.  There are show trials.  The best
and brightest of the nobility are killed or imprisoned, or choose to
flee to the marches or beyond the Imperium.  Imperial spies haunt their
every move, finding out who their contacts are and neutralizing all
threats to the Imperium, foreign and domestic, real or imagined.  IRIS
becomes a haven for authoritarian paranoid conspiracy theorists who
devote their lives to protecting the office of the Emperor -- without
regard to who holds it -- from their own fevered imaginations.  

Role-playing opportunities abound:  bodyguards for hire for nobles
seeking to escape with some wealth into a comfortable exile; bounty
hunters seeking to prove that Baron X was part of the Plot to
Assassinate Strephon, and then bring Baron X back to "justice"; Imperial
navy personnel considering mutiny against the ship's captain, who is a
suspect noble considering taking the ship over to the Solomani or mutiny
against the loyalist Fleet.....  I like this line of speculation.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:53:30 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller Fiction.

Hi all. Question: What about Traveller fiction?=20
Would you buy Traveller novels, if:
	They weren't by Dragonlance authors?
	They were better than the two GDW did?
	They weren't, but you liked them anyway?

What themes would you like to see Traveller novels on?
e.g.: 	Pocket Empire type political/military stuff?
	Adventurers doing adventurer things?
	Military (Hammer's Slammers) type stuff?
	Politics in the Moot?
	Or What?

	Tell me please! My quill is itching.

Meanwhile, here is a story:


=91An Expendable Operative=92
An Excerpt From The IISS Mission Files (Darvli Ga)
MJ Dougherty

My first job, right out of basic training, was Detached Duty with SDC. You
know; Sylean Development Corporation. They contract out to the Imperium to
open up and develop important worlds. The usual barbarian uplift: make
contact, bring in a seeder colony, build a little spaceport and raise
native sepoys to guard it. Show the locals the benefits of offworld trade
and membership of the Imperium, and by the time the Imperial border catches
up you=92ve got a world full of  enthusiastic would-be citizens.=20
	That=92s the plan, anyway. SDC gets the exclusive rights to trade for a =
few
years, and assumes responsibility for the Starport. Ultimately there=92s a
huge profit to be made, but in the beginning there=92s plenty of risk. The
corp bears that risk, not the Imperium. The advantage is obvious.
	SDC uses personnel from the Services to supplement its own people. Mainly
Scouts but the odd Marine or Army bod to advise on bloodshed and carnage as
needed. I was available so SDC took me on for a six-month contract. It
wasn=92t bad work - a full SDC danger salary, and half-pay piling up at the
Detached Duty office for when I got back. All the same I had a bad feeling
that I was along as dogsbody-general and landmine-detector second class.
You know; the expendable operative.=20
	Every mission has one.
	Darvli Ga is a nowhere world up in Lishun sector. Most of the locals have
Tech 3, steam-powered railroads and suchlike, but there=92s plenty of
lower-tech barbarians riding the plains or hiding out in the mountains. And
then there was the Cult.
	The Cult Of The Sword. Yeah, right. They were an enigma - social outcast=
s
treated with vast respect by everyone. Pony barbarians and townies as
equals, where normally they were at one another=92s throats all the bless=
ed
time.=20
	And they wouldn=92t touch guns.
	Not surprising really. I=92d not want to play around with those black po=
wer
muzzle-loaders, either. Not in a thin atmosphere with tons of spare oxyge=
n
floating around. A misfire is pretty dangerous at the best of times, but =
on
Darvli Ga it was usually fatal.
	I was with the contact team as sensors tech - supposedly sweeping for
mineral deposits to defray some of the mission costs. But not any more.
Instead I found myself summoned to meet the mission director - a Solomani
descent noble named Conrad Smit.=20
	Sir Conrad was blunt. =93Kyl, I want you to find out about the Cult for me.=94
	=93Uh, yes, sir. Of course,=94 I replied. =93How? We know next to nothing about
them. They won=92t even talk to our people unless we go through that hiring
ritual of theirs. Even if we do that, they=92ll hire out to us as bodyguards,
but they STILL won=92t talk about their religion or what they stand for.=92
	Smit smiled thinly, fixed me with his chilly gray eyes. =93I know,=94 he said
softly. =93That=92s why you=92re going to join their cult.=94
	I gaped at him.
	=93They=92re bladesmen. You fenced at college, yes?=94 Smit said patiently.
	=93Well, yes. Sir.=94
	=93Problem solved. Take your foil, go to their temple at Railhead and ask to
join the cult. You=92re the best man for the job.=94
	I never liked him. I couldn=92t resist it. =93You mean I=92m the most
expendable!=94 I snapped.
	Smit smiled placidly.
	=93That=92s right.=94

=09
So there I was, dressed in local outdoor clothing, foil on one hip, dagger
on the other, walking through the marshaling yards in the bitter gray of
morning. I mean, why are these meetings always at dawn? Why not just after
the pubs shut, or at a reasonable half-past ten in the morning? But no.
Dawn it was.
	I=92d done all right so far, just marching up to one of their cultists and
announcing, =93I want to join. What do I do?=94 Subtle, yeah?
	Well, it worked.=20
	=93The marshaling yards at dawn. I shall test you.=94 the cultist replied, and
walked away.
	Railhead was just coming to life; a frontier town serving the various
mining settlements in the Great Eastern Mountains. Railhead was a link to
what passed for civilization, last stop on the line for huge steam trains
with nearly a dozen wagons pulled unwillingly behind a straining, leaking
steam-powered boiler rupture on squealing steel wheels. It was a rough, all
but lawless place, where barbarians came to trade - and to take bribes not
to raid the mine towns, where hired swordslingers strutted about the
streets among the prostitutes and down-at-heel entertainers who made their
daily bread there.
	Conrad Smit must have really hated me. I hated Railhead.
	He was already there, waiting. His dress was the same as all the others;
leather jerkin and heavy woolen trews, high horseman=92s boots of soft
leather. Hair in long black braids. A dagger at his belt and a long sword
across his back. He stood in  the open, gazing evenly at me. I swallowed
hard and approached, sure that there was a black humor in his dark eyes at
sight of my foil.
	I stopped in front of him, looking past his weather-beaten features, to a
movement behind a nearby ore truck. Another figure, similarly clad but
holding a bow, ducked out of sight. I gritted my teeth.
	=93I am Blademaster Marli. I will test you to see if you are worthy.=94 my
opponent said flatly.
	=93Kyl Harvin,=94 I replied. =93So it=92s a sword fight?=94
	=93What did you expect? Marli answered.
	=93What if I lose the fight?=94 I asked nervously.
	He smiled slightly at that. =93I see that you are already defeated,=94 he
said. =93Let us pray.=94
	His right hand swept to the hilt at his shoulder. His long blade hissed
though the gray morning air as he jammed it upright in the packed soil of
the yard. =93Place your hands upon the hilt,=94 he said.
	I did.
	=93Close your eyes and bow your head.=94
	I did. His callused hands covered mine. There was a moment of silent
stillness.
	Then I felt his hands loosen on mine, move sharply away. I opened my eyes
as Marli slapped me backhand across the mouth, making me flinch back,
letting go of his weapon. He snatched it from the ground at my feet and
ran. I touched my bleeding lip, frowning in puzzled disbelief. Then rage
overcame me and I gave chase.
	Marli dodged and ducked among the shunting wagons, trying to lose me. I
dragged out my foil and tried to cut him off. Taking a lethal shortcut
under a moving train, I came up in front of him. I struck an en garde. He
sneered and slashed at my head. I blocked squarely, sure that the foil
would snap.
	It held, and I saw his eyes widen slightly in surprise. I snarled and
slashed at his throat, meaning to change lines and open his arm up when he
tried to parry.
	He wasn=92t playing. Instead of a parry, Marli leaned back out of reach,
then came back in as my foil hissed by his neck. He smacked me soundly in
the forehead with his pommel. I fell back, brilliant lights dancing before
my eyes and a ringing sensation in my brain. Somehow I kept my wits,
ramming the point out at where he=92d be if he came in for a killing blow.
	He wasn=92t there.=20
	Instead he stood a few feet away, laughing. Then he turned and ran lightly
away. I threw myself along the ground, slashing at his heels. He skipped
over the blow and ducked around the back of a coal bunker. I leaped up and
charged around the bunker after him, at the last second throwing myself
into a roll as I cleared the corner.
	Just as well. His heavy blade slashed out from behind the bunker, striking
the wall where my head would have been. I clumsily rolled into a crouch,
staying down.=20
	Another lethal strike hissed over my head as I jabbed the foil out at him.
My point punched into his boot, ripping through the tough leather and
drawing blood from mid-shin. He bit down on a cry of pain. I stood, stepped
in to attack, then remembered the archer I=92d seen earlier and moved sharply
sideways instead. An arrow thudded into the coal bunker beside me a second
later. My opponent took the opportunity to flee, hobbling away with amazing
speed. I zigzagged after him, expecting an arrow to punch into my tensed
back at any second.
	There was no arrow, but a second cultist came leaping out from his cover,
throwing down the bow and drawing his blade. I gauged the distance with
half an eye, made a fast attack on Marli, who blocked my thrust, standing
painfully on one foot.=20
	I threw everything I knew at him; tricky feints and sudden rushes. I could
hear footsteps behind me, knew there was only time for one more attack.=20
	But I didn=92t make that attack. Instead I whirled, took two steps and
leaped at my second assailant, feet first. I had a clear image of his
astonished expression as he tried to stop. Then we collided. I fell, he
tumbled. I scrambled up, he rolled away. Marli hobbled closer, but out of
the fight for now. I knew I had chosen right, evened the odds. Now all I
had to do was hit this scrambling target. I thrust again. His long blade
partially deflected my thrust. It speared into his side over the ribs. He
fell back to the hard-packed soil. I drew my arm back for the killing
thrust.=20
	Sharp, hot pain flooded my sword arm as Marli=92s throwing knife took me= in
the shoulder, just under the scapula. I hissed. My downed opponent=92s boot
crashed into my knee. I stumbled away, weakly turning to face Marli. Behind
him, others of the cult were closing, marching towards me with death in
their eye. There were ten or more of them. I backed up, the knife in my
back a tearing agony. I felt weak and sick, knew I could not withstand a
single attack, let alone escape. I transferred by foil to my left hand,
knowing the gesture to be pointless. Marli hobbled into range, blade
raised.
	My legs gave out. I crumpled forwards, driving my foil at his heart in a
clumsy final act of defiance. He swatted it aside with his blade and caught
me as I fell.
	=93Your training starts tomorrow.=94 Blademaster Marli whispered in my ear as
everything went black.


	I reported to Smit a few weeks later, covered from head to foot in
training bruises and still bandaged from my initiation fight.
	=93Well?=94 Smit asked.
	=93I made contact,=94 I said evenly. =93They tested me, as you can probably
tell.=94
	=93You beat one of their cultists?=94
	=93Of course not, but that wasn=92t the point. That  was why he said I w=
as
already defeated - I almost missed the point of the test.=94
	=93Which was?=94 Smit asked.
	=93Obvious really. I mean, if I could beat their blademaster, why would =
I
need to join? No, the point was to find out not if  I could fight, but if=
 I
could fight smart.=94
	=93You managed, obviously.=94
	=93Just about. When I recovered consciousness, Marli said to me, =91To b=
e able
to fight is as nothing. An animal can be trained to fight; so even a very
stupid human can. But to be able to think.... That is everything.=92 They
really believe that.=94
	Smit looked unimpressed. =93So who or what are these people?=94
	I smiled at him. =93My report went through SDC channels, so you=92ll pro=
bably
not get it for weeks. They=92re corporate agents - on a low-tech scale. T=
hey
do the whole range of tasks from security to espionage. And their religio=
n=20
forbids betrayal of a client under any circumstances. For the duration of=
=20
their pay - to the second - they are totally loyal, trustworthy under any
circumstances at all.=94
	=93That could be useful. Hire me half a dozen. We=92ll try them out.=94 =
Smit
said.
	=93The fee is rather high.=94
	=93Charge it to SDC security.=94=20
	=93Very well then. Five cultsmen.=94 I affirmed.
	=93Six, I said,=94 Smit corrected.
	=93Yes sir, six. That=92s five plus me. I can=92t work for you without y=
ou
paying the cult fee - of which I get a tenth when I leave your service. O=
f
course, that applies only to espionage and security work. I could go back
to my nice safe job in mineral detection if you=92d prefer that.=94
	Smit glowered at me. =93That=92s very nearly blackmail, mister Harvin,=94=
 he
said coldly.
	=93That=92s right. You want to hire me or not?=94
	=93Dammit, yes,=94 Smit barked. =93Now get out.=94
	=93Sir.=94 I turned to go.
	=93And Kyl?=94
	=93Yes, Sir Conrad?=94 I said formally.
	=93I think I made the right choice hiring you. You have a certain flair.=
=92
	=93Thank you sir,=94 I replied, settling the long blade across my back. =
I
turned and walked out, my new riding boots making a soft creak as I walke=
d.
	=93HARVIN!=94 Smit suddenly bellowed as I closed the door. I smiled. Tha=
t
meant he=92d called up my report, and what he=92d be paying. I pushed the=
 door
open.
	=93Sir?=94=09
	=93HOW MUCH?=94 he demanded.
	=93Standard cult fee, sir.=94 I even managed a straight face.
	=93You=92re a robber, Harvin. Get out of my office. And get a haircut. T=
hose
braids look bloody ridiculous!=94
	=93At once, sir.=94 I responded cheerfully and left.
	That=92s what you get for telling me I=92m expendable.

	Now that was more interesting than a debate about Jump drives, wasn't it=
?

	What d'you mean, it wasn't!!!

	Martin.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1814
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 12 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1815



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Plague of Duskir
Some stray thoughts
Call for MT help
Re: dan lane
2300 background simulation
Re: T:2300 Sim
Re: America 2300ad
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:45:49 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Plague of Duskir

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:46:13 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 07:06:23 +0200 (METDST)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Plague of Duskir
>
>Phillip McGregor writes
>>>>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>

>>And look at the Santanocheev affair -- everyone thinks (officially) that 
>>he's hot stuff because of his careful media management, but he's 
>>(allegedly -- according to Norris) a total incompetent. 
>
>Also according to authorial sources.

And the authors have never *ever* gone back on anything they've written? Like
Annic Nova? Jump Torpedoes? HePlar replacing Thruster Plates?

If they can do it with tech, then why assume that they can't (or, indeed,
haven't -- tho I can't think of any examples offhand) done it with History?
Certainly there are enough *inconsistencies* with Trav history to require
*considerable* cleaning up and many changes to accepted "canon", one way or
another. When (if) this is ever done, well, the "authors" will have to change
hsitory.

And, for that matter, they already have taken that attitude. The changes between
MTrav and CTrav were quite considerable, and there were (at the time) concerns
that the changes (historical) were going to be a problem. However, MTrav lasted
long enough so that (*despite* the stuffed game system :P ) the "historical"
background was widely accepted.

However, there is evidence to show that GDW was not entirely satisfied with the
way that "history" was being written by DGP -- an "authorial" dispute, so to
speak -- the "Sparklers" mentioned in the last one or two Digests, for example,
seem (so it has been said by those fortunate few on the list who *have* such
publications), seem to have been totally rejected by GDW.

I, personally, do not entirely accept Solomani & Aslan as "canon" either, partly
because no copies ever made it into Oz (at that late point in DGP's existence,
their poor distribution network was effectively defunct outside of the US,
AFAIK), and partly because it is obvious that moves were afoot to dump them.
Ergo, I place about as much faith in anything published there as I do in TNE's
"fantasy".

Of course, that's neither here nor there. But if you're being selective as to
what parts of Traveller canon you accept, then I suppose I can be too.

>>In 2000 years time (from then) someone could come across the post Virus 
>>remnants of what passes for the records of the period and finds only the 
>>bits telling what a great job Santanocheev was doing? He immediately 
>>writes a book on this "great man" -- and naysayers from what was once the 
>>Regency would have a hard time proving anything different amongst some 
>>elements of the populace. Voila, a *factoid* is born!
>
>I totally fail to see any relevance to that. Any Traveller fan with access
>to the CT material will be able to find out the canonical truth. 
>Santanocheev was an incompetent. A future adventure module based on the 
>publication of the biography: "Santanocheev  --  Hero of the 5th Frontier
>War" would not conflict with this previously published material (the
>canonical truth about the biography would just be that it was wrong), but 
>an  adventure module based on the factual exploits of Santanocheev, hero of 
>the 5th Frontier War, would be. 

But, unless you possess all the relevant Journals, you wouldn't know.

This is why I find it astoundingly naive of people on this list to say things
like "so what if T4 is stuffed, simply use the MTrav or TNE stuff as a
supplement" ... er, sorry, but these items are all out of print, available only
as second hand items (or, if you're *really* lucky, in the bargain bin at
randomly chosen FLGS's), so, for the *new* T4 players, they might as well not
exist. And anything that they say that is contradicted in T4 will *not* be
regarded as "canon" by the new breed of T4 players -- who are the only hope for
the survival and growth of the game -- *UNLESS* they are republished and
confirmed in new material.

Ergo, if IG allowed "Santanocheev -- Hero of the 5th Frontier War" to be
published, then it *would* be "canon" to these new players. (Of course, allowing
something like that to be published would mightily piss off all of us who *have*
the requisite Journals *mightily* ... Santanocheev the clot? A hero? Gaaah!)
 
>>>>So, you still believe in Solar Powered multiple JDrives (Annic Nova) 
>>>
>>>Advanced super-science by an unknown race. Yep. That I'll accept. There is
>>>another example of such a ship in _Secret of the Ancients_ (well, it carried
>>>around a lifetime supply of fuel in a pocket universe. Perhaps the Annic
>>>Nova does the same.)
>> 
>>Unfortunately Annic Nova was simply from the Julian Protectorate. 
>
>>From what canonical publication did you get that interesting bit of 
>information? As far as I know the origin of Annic Nova is and have always
>been a mystery.

Its evidently from one of the last Digest Group Digests ... or from one of them,
anyway. I've seen the photocopied page in a friend's collection, but he only has
the page, not the reference of where it came from. However, evidently (and I'm
taking this from him again, he has a *far* bigger collection of obscure
Traveller stuff than I) the *alphabet* is a dead giveaway ... it also was
featured somewhere fairly obscure in the DGP MTrav era, and it's evidently an
obvious match.
 
>>The possibilities were (presumably) too unsettling of what the designers 
>>*later* decided they wanted, so they conveniently ignored it thereafter. 
>>But Annic Nova was an official GDW publication in the 3 little black book 
>>days!
>
>So what? I've never said that canon hasen't changed or even that there are
>bits that should be changed. I just say that it should be changed as little
>as possible and only if it actually corrects a genuine inconsistency.

But *I'm* pointing out that they;ve changed canon whenever and wherever it
suited them based on their own requirements, requirements that have no
discernible connections with consistency, but a lot to do with their particular
belief system (almost always severely flawed in "real world" terms) as to how
"things *should* be". Traveller computers are a case in point -- only with Greg
Porter's attempts in CSC have they really been brought into the late 20th
century, all the rest were presented as humongous mainframes from the "big iron"
period -- or as what seemed to be little better than dumb terminals -- or, if we
assume that they *really* did understand the PC revolution, they left out its
implications (and the reality of it) completely from MTrav and TNE.

GDW and Traveller's authors have always had a particular belief system, and they
have been quite free to change some aspects of it freely, but have clung
(kicking and screaming, it seems) to others way past their "use by" dates.
Consistency has almost nothing to do with it, so it seems.
 
>>>>and Jump Torpedoes (Leviathan?). 
>>>
>>>I guess you don't recall that I designed a workable jump torpedo the last
>>>time that particular bit of canon was discussed.

And so did I, the time before, when everyone rejected it.
 
>>Was it under 10 tons in displacement mass? 
>
>Essentially it was a jump drive with a collapsible jump grid framework that 
>could be extended to cover 100 T. It was energized by the parent ship and
>then pushed away from it in the same grace period between the capacitors
>are charged and has to be discharged that is used in connection with drop 
>tanks. (Presumably that means that jump torpedoes can't be built until
>the brand of capacitors that allow drop tanks are invented around 1080). 

Which was essentially the design I proposed. However, regardless of whether you
or I came up with a design that seems workable to *us*, it remains a fact that
it was "canon" in Leviathan (which was set pre-1080) and that it still remains
*non-canon* today.

>>>They still are as far as I am concerned. But I'll agree with your basic
>>>point. Keeping canon straight is important IMO, but it is not the only
>>>important thing. Internal consistency and playability are even more
>>>important. 
>> 
>>But they *aren't*, officially! So, you accept the parts of canon that you 
>>like and reject those that you don't like -- and you accept *official* 
>>revisions to canon if you like them, but reject them if you don't? Look, 
>>I'm not objecting to that sort of position -- its where *I'm* coming from 
>>myself. But, like they say, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the 
>>gander!
>
>Look, if someone some day publishes a canonical adventure set on Tobia in 
>1122 complete with arrogant _ihatei_ masters swaggering along the Tobian
>streets and brave resistance fighters struggling to throw off the Aslan
>yoke, then I won't be able to use it, because in my opinion the Aslan
>_ihatei_ would never be able to conquer Tobia in a month of Sundays.
>Therefor I want IG to changes those parts of canon that dosen't make
>sense. OTOH, if I've run an adventure for my players based on the 
>revenge Santanocheev tried to take over Norris in 1116 and then IG
>publishes an adventure that reveals that Santanocheev never existed, then
>I won't be able to use that, irregardless of its other merits. Therefor I 
>want them to refrain from changing canon unless they have a damn good
>reason. No matter how good the 'No Santanocheev' scenario is, it dosen't
>matter, because I can't _use_ the damn thing. Even if the story is much
>more plausible and hangs together much better and makes for a whale of
>an adventure I CAN'T USE THE DAMN THING. So changing canon merely to make
>a more plausible story is a Bad Thing. Changing canon to eliminate
>impossibilities is a Good Thing. 

OK. it boils down to, as I said, you accept the changes you like and reject
those you don't. As I said, I have no problem with that -- as long as you accept
that this means that there are going to be a hell of a lot of different versions
of what *is* "canon" out there, because not everyone is going to agree with your
particular belief system! And, for an obvious one, while I agree with the
Santanocheev one, I disagree with the Duskir one.

>> 
>>But the games creators have contradicted themselves over and over in important
>>areas. What it boils down to is that *you* agree with them when it suits your
>>purposes and *disagree* with them when it doesn't. 
>
>You could put it that way. What I like to believe is that it suits my
>purpose to agree with them when they make reasonable changes and to
>disagree with them when they make unreasonable choices. In which case
>the argument is back to whether the Plague of Duskir makes sense or not.

And, as I said, *you* decide when the changes are "reasonable" and when they are
"unreasonable" ... just as everyone else on this list (and who has been buying
Traveller for a long time) does. In other words, your version of canon is no
more "correct" than mine, or anyone elses, its just that its the version *you*
prefer.

>>You know exactly *what* diseases constituted the PoD?
>
>No, of course not. For one thing, they haven't evolved yet. For another,
>they don't affect Terrans, so we wouldn't recognize then if we saw them.
>For a third, it is a mistake to get too detailed about such things. It
>only gives people who know something about the subject an opportunity
>to pick holes.

And it is a mistake *not* to get detailed enough, as it allows people who know
something about the subject an equally large opportunity to pick holes! It would
have been easy enough, based on historical experiences on Terra, to pick a
reason for any depopulation of the Ziru Sirka after the victory of the Terrans
- -- and it would have *included* disease, but not have been dominated by it to
the exclusion of all else. Since it would have been based on real world
historical experience, it would have been defensible on the basis of "its
happened before" and, since history isn't science in any acceptable sense,
there's really no way of refuting it.

For example, the easiest way to explain the depopulation that seems to be
desired would be something along these lines --

At the time of the Terran victory, the ZS had been barely viable for years.
Inherent Vilani conservatism had both preserved the existing, but fragile,
structure *and* had been the cause of that same fragility. As long as it had
been expanding and victorious, it was viable -- at least in the sense that its
long term problems could be papered over -- but it was already becoming too big
and complex to be expansionistic in a large enough scale to survive when it met
the Terrans.

The fight against the Terrans increasingly diverted resources from maintaining
the vital infrastructure that kept the ZS staggering along to a wasteful and
unwinnable war.

At last, it was not so much advances in Terran technology as it was complete
exhaustion of any economic surplus within the empire that led to the collapse of
the ZS. At this point, internal social stability was put under great strain, and
even Vilani conservatism was not enough to prevent great social upheaval and the
consequent breakdown and/or disruption of industry and transport, of government
and social welfare operations, and of the social fabric itself.

People began to starve as food rotted in the fields because of the collapse of
the local transport net for want of vital offworld produced spares. The collapse
of the Vilani restrictions on internal travel led to widespread population
movements and the attendant disease and social problems -- also leading to
increased death rates. In some sectors and subsectors the rule of law collapsed
either partially or wholly and the chaos resulting led to further deaths -- and
these were ongoing when the first handful of Terran representatives arrived.

The situation within the whole ZS was so precarious that it is a wonder that the
Terrans were able to stabilise it and keep it operating for several hundred
years more. In fact, the Terrans can truly be regarded as the saviours of the
ZS, as otherwise any collapse would have been sooner and much more devastating.

(This is based on what happened -- or what we now understand to have happened --
to the Roman Empire)

The PoD could be included in the above, but only as a bit player as much an
accident of almost unopposable and inevitable social problems as anything else.
And, since the numbers seem to show that the Vilani and their populace were 99%
or more immune to it *anyway*, this position of virtual irrelevance seems far
more fitting.

>>I don't think it actually details this *anywhere*. In other words, *in your
>>opinion* this is the case, but you don't have any solid facts for this -- OK,
>>*in my opinion* it is *not* the case, and I have just as many facts backing 
>>my opinion up!
>
>No, you have one less fact backing you up than I have: I have a canonical
>statement of the effects of the disease. If things were the way you claim,
>then that statement would be wrong. Ergo, things can't be the way you
>claim. That's logic, innit?

So, a 0.3-0.5% or less die back supports the position that the disease was
"devastating"? A 99% plus survival rate supports the claim that the Vilani
immune system couldn't handle Terran diseases?

I think not. Logic seems to be on my side, when you look at the numbers, eh?

>(I also have the following statement taken from TD#20:) 
>
>"...The Plague [of Duskir] was a complex infection caused by a combination of
>microorganisms common to the Solomani, including yeast, staphylococci,
>digestive bacteria, and veneral disease."

And it killed 0.3-0.5% of the populace. The Spanish Flu *all by itself* was
worse than this -- and the Spanish Flu is the worst disease/plague ever recorded
(it killed 1.5% of world population in around 12 months -- the Black Death
killed 1/3rd of Europe's population, sure, but took over a century and repeated
outbreaks to do it.)

>>Assuming that this is true, then so what? Digestive bacteria, as I have 
>>pointed out *are* affected by available antibiotics and have not become 
>>resistant.
>
>Again, if a certain assumption is necessary to explain a canonical fact,
>then that assumption should be made. Digestive bacteria today are affected 

Not if it flies in the face of objective reality.


>>Sorry, if we assume that this sort of thing was spread out wherever the 
>>Terrans went, the worlds that suffered are likely to have been the hi-pop 
>>worlds. Given that the population of the ZS was probably comparable to that 
>>of the 3I (say between 1/3 and 1/2 ... though I personally suspect it would 
>>be closer to 2/3), 
>
>It's not a given that I'm prepared to accept. We have no real knowledge
>about Siru Zirka population distribution. In fact, my pet theory is that
>by far the majority of Vilani-settled planets were of medium population.

Which means that even if the ZS population was only 10% of what it is in M0,
then the "die back" is only 1%. Miniscule in the scheme of things.

And, gee, if we're talking pet theories, we're not talking "canon", are we? And
my "pet theory" seems to be *just* as reasonable!

>>then we have a situation where the 10000 worlds (I worked this out a while 
>>ago) something on the order of 300 to 500 billion people, mostly 
>>concentrated on the hi-pop worlds. So we have 1 billion people die in the 
>>PoD. That's 0.2 to 0.33% of the ZS's population. The Spanish Flu killed 20 
>>million or so (records are understandably sketchy for the less advanced 
>>parts of the world) and is the worst plague *ever* ... the world population 
>>was around 1.2 billion at the time, which means that *it* killed a bit over 
>>1.5% of world population. How many people of the "man in the street" sort 
>>have even heard of it these days? Or know how many died? Or know how 
>>relatively insignificant it was?
>
>Which should suggest to you that the actual percentage of deaths is not the
>most important factor in what gets remembered and what does not. You just
>said that the Spanish Flu was the worst plague ever. That means that the
>Black Death was not the worst ever, yet everybody I know has heard of it.

Err, sorry, I don't get the point! Most people don't know about the Black Death,
either. I teach High School level history (Senior and Junior) and I can assure
you that even the brightest students don't know about these things -- a few
might have some vague inkling of the BD existing and what it is, but no better
than that. Even Year 11 students, where we study WW1 and its causes, wouldn't
have a clue about the SF, as it simply isn't covered in what we teach, because
it is irrelevant to what we teach.

I would not assume that "everybody I know" has heard of the BD, either. Some of
my friends would, most wouldn't; probably all of my gaming acquantances would,
mainly because I have occasionally mentioned it, and because diseases, including
the BD, are part of the House System that we use. There is no reason why even
most educated people would know of it. The only reason I know about it is
because I have always been interested in history and read a *lot* of it -- even
when it was outside the actual course of study for my degree and diploma
courses. 
 
>>Sorry, if all the PoD did was to kill off a 1/2% or less of the ZS's 
>>population, then it seems the whole thing *has* to be seen as propaganda 
>>on the part of *someone*.
>
>Like the Terran popular press? "Millions dead on Dingir! Plague is killing
>off all Vilani! Read all about it!"

Well, where does this come from? And, in any case, how do we know that it wasn't
the equivalent of a Supermarket Tabloid --

"Hell exists -- Norwegians confirm!"

>>>>The worst plague in human history -- the Spanish Flu at the end of WW1 -- 
>>>>was worse than this! 
>>>
>>>It killed over a billion people?
>> 
>>No, it killed a larger *percentage* of people. To have the same effect on the
>>population of the ZS, you would have to have it kill 5-8 billion people. And
>>even then, like I said, who remembers the Spanish Flu?
>
>And Ebola has been known to kill 100% of a village. To have the same effect
>in the Danish yellow press a disease here in Denmark would have to kill at
>least one person. And who, like I said, remembers the Black Death? 

So? Apart from a few scaremongering journo types ("The Hot Zone" et al) and one
reasonably stupid recent movie, why would anyone have ever heard of Ebola? It's
a nothing news item, really. If you live in the appropriate areas of Africa,
evem, there's minimal risk. I mean, who's ever heard of O'nyong 'nyong fever?
And it is supposedly almost as lethal as Ebola! It just hasn't had the "good"
press.

I'd actually be more scared on a new mutation of Swine Flu -- which is what
Spanish Flu was. However, even this would not be likely to be a problem in the
ZS as the long voyage times and short incubation period would prevent much
spread.
 
>>>You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I for one believe that the
>>>premature death of a billion people is worthy of at least a foot-note in
>>>history... ;-)
>> 
>>About as big a one as the Spanish Flu is. 
>
>What was the socio-political impact of the Spanish Flu? Did it have effects
>comparable to that of the Black Death? It isn't how many dies or how big a
>percentage, it is what the historians thinks is significant.

And almost no-one knows of the BD either.

Perhaps its because you're European and it gets better press (so to speak) in
Danish history courses (I understand, for example, it really stuffed up Norway
majorly -- don't have a clue about Denmark). However, the only history we teach
in Oz that is sort of compulsory (you can do Geography *instead*) is Australian
history -- and the SF doesn't get a mention.

I would imagine that only those worlds that were hot by the PoD and which lost a
hell of a lot more than 0.3% of their people to it would even be aware of it.
And even there it would be a minor and mostly unknown footnote to the more
important military and political events of the Nth Interstellar Wars and the
RoM.

>>Which is to say, sweet damn all for practical purposes. *UNLESS* someone 
>>connected with it has an axe of some sort to grind!
>
>Or unless it catches the imagination of people. That's all it takes. The
>Black Death was a popular plague, the Spanish Flu wasn't. No one today
>has any axe to grind in connection with either. Yet one is remembered
>and one isn't.

And most people have never heard of the BD either.
 
>>>What's so quirky about assuming that the Vilani immune system strengths
>>>follow a bell curve?
>> 
>>So we have around 99% or so resistant, as less than 1% died? 
>
>Yes, you are right. If the Old Vilani had had weakened immune systems but
>99% still survived, then their descendants ought to have weak immune
>systems too. So that theory don't hold water. The Vilani immune systems
>must be potentially as strong as the Terran ones. But that wouldn't help
>the generation of Vilani that encountered the Terran immigrants, because
>an immune system that dosen't get properly excersised from birth dosen't
>develop full strength.

So 99% of the populace that encountered the Terrans had a fully effective immune
system! That's what the figures show! And now you're backing down on the
keystone of "canon" in the area!

>>Seems like, statistically speaking, the Vilani immune system was 
>>essentially the same as far as effectiveness goes ... 
>
>Potentially as strong, yes. But not developed to its full potential at the
>time.

No, only 99% as effective. I fail to see any practical difference.

>>Even if the ZS populace was only 1/10th of Milieu 0 populace, then its 
>>still 100 billion, and 1 billion dead is still only 1% ... and an immunity 
>>rate of 99%! Looks more and more like the PoD was and is a complete beat 
>>up, eh?
>
>You know the old saw about white lies, black lies, and statistics? Just
>because 1% of all Vilani survived dosen't mean that a much higher
>percentage didn't die on some worlds close to Earth while some planets
>far from Earth was scarcely touvhed. There's even a tiny bit of support
>for that view in the fact that the Plague of Duskir is part of the
>Solomani history (_S&A_) while it is apparently not part of Vilani
>history (_V&V_).

So, the PoD was an accident. The PoD never occurred much elsewhere because the
Terrans realised the problem and provided the drugs and medical care necessary
to prevent it elsewhere. So a few isolated worlds were hit badly. Only on thosw
worlds would it be likely to be an issue -- and only to the now mostly Terran
inhabitants (who replaced the dead Vilani).

It still sounds more and more like a beat up. And that the Vilani who supposedly
"cured" it was a faker.
  
>>The 3I reconquered Earth -- and it's always a good idea to demonise the 
>>enemy, it makes it easier to kill. 
>
>It's sometimes a very bad idea to demonize the enemy. For one thing, it makes
>the enemy demonize you, which makes it easier for him to kill you. for

And you have already commented that the Vilani did not take prisoners and/or
killed them because they fought wars on an economic basis and saw no sense in
keeping them, economically speaking. Now, I've never seen that claim anywhere
else, but it certainly seems to indicate that the Vilani had demonised the
enemy, eh?!

>another, it makes him fight harder, because it reduces the attractiveness
>of surrender. And finally it makes it more difficult to make friends with
>him when you've conquered him. And we know for a fact that the Imperium

Japan in WW2. Yes, they fought harder -- mainly because they didn't want to
dishonour their family or country, not so much because they were terrified of
the Allies; and, of course, Australia was always able to be friendly trading
partners with Japan both before and after the war. How do most modern day Danes
feel about Germany? Does it stop them trading? Do they spit on German tourists?

>put a lot of effort into making friends with Earth after the war. (In
>fact, one of my ideas for TNE was that Earth had really resented being 

one of *your* ideas. Not "canon".

>'liberated' by those Solomani fanatics from Home who just muscled in and
>started to throw your weight about (You don't believe the Solomani
>leaders turned over the reins of government to the Terran leaders, do
>you? It's much more likely that they executed them as traitors...).

it still boils down to the fact that the PoD is a beat up, no matter how you
look at it. BASED ON THE FEW FACTS WE HAVE. Now, if T4 (or, more likely, GTrav)
publishes something that is set in the period, or which unarguably and
indisputably states support for the PoD being devastating -- perhaps revising
the death rate or whatever -- then that's different. However, on the facts we
have the PoD was a beat up.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 20:55:10 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Some stray thoughts

Ok, for months I've been reading the many canon debates and have tried
to stay away from them. Now I think I'll throw in my .02cr just this
once.

Any time a prequel is written, and that is what T4 is, it's almost
impossible NOT to change something. Actions that have been written can
be accounted for in the prequel and should be, but the previously
written "history" can't take into account what the prequel will write,
that would mean the the authors of the previously written material could
really see into the future. Unfortunately, some glitches in continuity
will have to be accepted or IG and anyone else will just have to give up
the idea of writing adventures for M:0 for fear of causing a break
somewhere down the "historical" line.

To "prove" my point... There has been much debate about the virus
episode in Gateway, (I've just purchased it and am not familiar with the
details so I won't comment on that), and how it breaks with the Vilani
susceptibility to decease during the RoM. However no one has yet made
mention of the biggest Conon-breaker of all in TLH and Gateway! Why, if
there is a "fast transit" gate way between an area near Core and
Gushemege, even if an unstable one, wouldn't this have an affect at
least in CT and MT? Now I don't want to hear about it was an Imperial
Secret or some such! It wasn't "invented" yet is the answer, and if it
had been it would have had an affect in the "later" history of the 3I,
even if only as a foot note. What I am trying to say is, that unless we
are willing to tie our hands to the point of inactivity, adventures in
M:0 will always have the possibility to twist some point of Canon.

Now, this is not to say that I am in favor of throwing out the history
of the 3I after all the effort that has been put forth to write it.
Major "historical" fact SHOULD be left untouched! A Canon Bible, such as
tv series use to promote continuity would be a GREAT thing, a truly
worthy effort! and I believe it's been started in Don McKinney's
Traveller Integrated Timeline. Prospective authors should be pointed to
that tome when developing their adventures, expansions, etc...

But "Don't Sweat The Small Stuff!!!". If something like a the Tl14 vacc
suits show up in a scenario, instead of griping about them for 2
months... ignore them. Change them to a lower TL with some small
advancement, or skip that scenario altogether! Point out the glitch to
the author, it may well help him or her in future endeavors, but
continuous rants, months long debates, and bashing can only serve to
make it awfully hard for those writers to want to continue writing for
this game system at all! I, for one applaud the efforts of ALL the
people involved in continuing a game I love. I have my problems with it
(IG's continued problem with finding competent proof readers, an
inconsistent construction system, space combat ) but a least there is a
Traveller for there to be improvements to! To say it again, in closing
Thank You to all the people willing to expend the effort to continue a
game I've enjoyed for 20 years, very very few hobbies have managed to
last that long, for me, and the continuing growth of the Traveller
background has had a large part in keeping that interest!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 21:10:52 -0400
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Call for MT help

It having been quite a while since I last looked at MT, I am at something 
of a loss.

Utter disgust with IG's product quality has incited me to return to MT, 
and having picked up what appear to be third or even 2nd printings of the 
stuff, I assume it is rife with Errata.

Where can I find a compilation of MT errata?  Anyone?

Also, any MT-related web sites or software, or anything else really, 
would be MOST appreciated.


Thanks in advance,
Ross

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:12:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: dan lane

In a message dated 97-09-12 16:58:01 EDT, you write:

<< You wrote: 
 
 >have been cut, to what I consider critical levels.  (What is the 
 current
 >multi-conflict doctrine anyway?  I know it is no longer Win/Win)
 
 Forget what they call it in official terms, but it's 'Win/Stall until 
 we get the forces from the first war in place'
 
Yup.  Though the Marines advertise a Win/Win capability even today.
 Political games...
BTW the technical term is "MRC" for Multiple Regional Contingencies- at least
in the Marines.

 >My last year in the Nav (3 years ago) I kept hearing how training and
 >maintenance funds were being diverted to operational funding.
 
 I recall seeing on TV a few years back a gentleman who's squadron of 
 naval aircraft had been but on a no-flying status as a result of lack 
 of funds.
 
 >And gosh, having spent a *short* time as a drilling reservist, I saw that
 >the reserve forces are being called up in ever increasing numbers to
 >offset the shortfall of active duty units.  As a matter of fact, a friend
 >of mine in the Army Reserve has been called for duty in Bosnia, another
 >acquaintence just got back.  Again, another reservist.
 
 A batallion of my division has been activated, and the rest of us are 
 unofficially been told that 'any time now' for us.  And I'm in a 
 National Guard division.
 
 John M. Atkinson >>


It's called backfilling.  Expect a lot more of it.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:18:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: 2300 background simulation

>>Is it possible to get a copy of this simulation????

Marc dredged up a copy of the original rules and will Email them to
interested parties. Several peo[ple on this list can probably provide them to
you.

>
>>(Assuming that it had reliable rules, and was not the result of some
>>fudged free-form role-playing.)

Well, the economics rules _did_ change every session.

>Oh, Loren......

>I always wondered, who played France?

John Harshman.

I was Germany (fragmented for a while -- this required considerable
schizofrenia on my part, as Bavaria was a French puppet for years, whereas
the rest of Germany was at various times allied with or at war with France ).

LKW 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 20:25:02 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: T:2300 Sim

On 09/11/97 at 08:41 PM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>>Is it possible to get a copy of this simulation????
>>(Assuming that it had reliable rules, and was not the result of some
>>fudged free-form role-playing.)

>I always wondered, who played France?
>--

Doug, check out the inside front cover of Traveller 2300...

 Players in _The Game_ were ---
 
     John Astell (Mexico, Romania, and India)
     Rich Banner (Russia, Zimbabwe, and Canada)
     Kevin Brown (Cuba, the Ukraine, and Australia)
     Timothy B. Brown (United Kingdom, Algeria, and Manchuria)
     Larry Butz (Venezuela, Italy, Iran, and Angola)
     John Harshman (France, Argentina, and Israel)
     Dr. David MacDonald (MilGov of the US, Poland, and Canton)
     Marc W. Miller (Azania, Japan, Bolivia, and Egypt)
     Matt Renner (CivGov of the US, Sweden, Nigeria)
     Wayne Roth (Brazil, Spain, and Turkey)
     Loren Wiseman (New America, Germany, and Indonesia)
     Frank Chadwick (Referee and kibbitizing player)
     
Eris     
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:31:57 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:33:26 EDT, lugh1@juno.com wrote:

> also to disagree with the fella who said the U.S. and russia did not
> tangle in T2000  , this is wrong read the background the U.S. and russia
> fought major engagements dureing the lenth of the war . ..

I assume this means me.  I *never* stated that the US and Russia did
not tangle in "Twilight: 2000"-- my reference was to "Traveller:
2300".  I am fully aware of the background of 2TK, 1st Ed.

After a brief discussion with another listee, I have discovered that
there are substantial differences between Traveller: 2300 (which is
what I own) and 2300 AD (which I do not).  I would have thought *both*
games would be canon.  It appears that I was mistaken.  This fact does
not invalidate my other points, however.


James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:31:53 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:07:26 +0100, Simon Early wrote:

> > it does mean, for example, that a TL-20 internal combustion
> > engine has approximately the same characteristics as a TL-8 internal
> > combustion engine. You can reach a limit of improvement for any specific
> > device independent of tech increases.
> 
> I think I disagree with this.  Just think of the compression ratios you could 
> achieve with bonded superdense engine blocks :-)

And the extra mass... and the predetonation... and the 1,000 Amp draw
starters needed to turn over these beasties :)

> One of the things that bugged me about MT and FFS design sequences is that there 
> is no TL advances for fission and internal combustion at higher TL.  One of the 
> "feelings" I get from many of my favorite SciFi books is that there should be 
> such a progession.  While fusion, or fusion+, may be the technology of choice at 
> TL 13, I still believe that small fission-driven chainsaws or alcohol fuel-cell 
> powered snow-mobiles have the right feel for so many settings.

Nuclear chain saws, Booo!  Think of all the futuristic slasher movies
with maniacs running around with nearly silent chain saws-- boooring!
;)

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1815
***********************************

Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 13 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1816



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Jump in Traveller-long
Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?
Re: Jump in Traveller-long
Re: Reactionaries!
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Commentary
Re: Monetary Economics (OT)
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Jump in Traveller-long
Re: The usual
Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex
Re: While we're at it...
Re: Jump in Traveller-long
Re: America 2300 ad
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1814
Re: Traveller Fiction.
Re: Plague of Duskir

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:31:55 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller-long

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:57:34 -0600, Erwin Fritz wrote:

> Glenn Hoppe wrote:
> > 
> > In Your Traveller Universe, if you try to jump too near to a planet, you
> > precipitate out at 100 diameters. Yet while in jumpspace, you are
> > unaffected by normal space! So how did jumpspace "know" that you should
> > precipitate out *before* you get close to the planet?
> > 
> > I think as long as the "straight line" rule is made clear, by
> > specifically stating that you are not actually travelling along that
> > straight line in normal space; that the line is only for determining
> > gravitational effects, then the rule is a fine one and simplifies
> > determination of the 100 dia. rule.
> 
> I don't see the contradiction. While in jumpspace, you are unaffected
> by realspace gravitational forces (and everything else in realspace,
> for that matter).
> 
> When you enter jumpspace, the conditions must be right to establish
> a jump field around your ship. One of these conditions is the absence
> of significant gravitational force. This requirement applies when 
> you're in realspace.
> 
> When you exit jumpspace, there must still be an absence of 
> gravitational force in order for you to enter normal space.

But precipitating out of jump space is a natural event in Traveller.
As a ship approaches the 100 diameter limit, it *automatically* exits
jump space (according to canon, anyway).  For this to happen, the ship
*must* be able to somehow perceive the gravity well.  It can do this
in two ways: a) the ship can peer into normal space from jump space
and "detect" the gravity well or b) elements of a gravity well exist
in jump space to interact with the ship while still it is still in
jump.

One can *choose* to exit jump space manually at a greater distance, of
course.

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:55:25 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: XBoats.  J6 or J4?

> - The secret ones, which only high level government people knew about.

> These were Jump-6, and were (for eg) how Noris knew about the
assassination
> before the general public did.

The secret ones weren't XBoats, they were covert freighters with J-6
drives installed.

I guess it needs to be explicitly stated that XBoats are the
"lightbulb-shaped 100 ton information couriers of the Imperium." *All*
of them were J-4.

Correct.  I've got Traveller supplement #7, Traders and Gunboats, open
as I write :

On page 9, along with deckplans of the X-Boat, it states :

Jump :     4, capable of one jump-4, four jump-1, or any combination
totalling
                four parsecs.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:57:48 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller-long

In Your Traveller Universe, if you try to jump too near to a planet, you

precipitate out at 100 diameters. Yet while in jumpspace, you are
unaffected by normal space! So how did jumpspace "know" that you should
precipitate out *before* you get close to the planet?

I think as long as the "straight line" rule is made clear, by
specifically stating that you are not actually travelling along that
straight line in normal space; that the line is only for determining
gravitational effects, then the rule is a fine one and simplifies
determination of the 100 dia. rule.

Once, while I was playing Traveller, we attempted a jump 100 feet off
the launch pad, and the GM ruled that we took some of the planet's mass
and atmosphere with us, and that we blew up.  :)

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:33:44 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Reactionaries!

Do you have any of your old "classic" small book traveller material
still?  I still play it and am trying to get the following :

Books :  6 and 7

Supplements :  9 and 10

Thank you

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:02:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

You wrote: 

>What happened was after the nuclear spasm of Thanksgiving 1997, the US
>Congress conviened and in an exceedingly irregular session, elected a
>President.  The Joint Chiefs of Staff refused to accept the legitimacy 
of
>the new government, and held that martial law was still in effect.

I just can't concieve of the military involving itself in politics to 
that extent.  Not since the Society of Cincinnattus has a serving line 
officer (other than McClellan-and he never contemplated mutiny) 
interfered in US internal civillian politics, other than for the good 
of the Service (i.e. trying to convince McCarthy to leave them alone, 
begging Congress for money, etc.)

>Many units defected to CivGov, and low intensity fighting broke out
>nation-wide.  Add in the right-wing organization New America, which 
was
>setting up a "Christian white peoples state", and you can see where it 
was
>going to take a long time to rebuild.

That I can see.  Although they seem to be a little disorganized and 
anarchistic to create a national movement.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:57:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Commentary

You wrote: 

>> (you *did* actually go where the bang-bangs happened, or are you a 
REMF?)
>What kind of question is this? REMF? Methinks the Gulf War was a bit
>diffferent than Vietnam. Many combat types have this nonsensical idea 
that
>support troops are useless. Iraq probably has a better appreciation of 
their
>supply troops now.

REMF.  Anyone who doesn't get shot at.  In Desert Storm, since the 
enemy didn't have aircraft, the only people not in line batallions who 
got shot at were people on the wrong end of the 
something-like-four-SCUDs that actually might have hit something vital 
if they hadn't fallen apart in the upper atmosphere (with all due 
respect for the the Reservists who happened to be in the warehouse that 
was the only chunk of a SCUD that killed any Americans).  So from the 
response above, methinks you were an Echelon Above Corps asset that sat 
in a cubicle in Riyhad (Misspelled, I'm sure) whose major risk was the 
chance of getting cancer from a computor screen.  I'm so impressed.

John M. Atkinson
12B, and damn proud of it 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:02:08 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics (OT)

Glenn Hoppe wrote


> I have no problem with interest per se, I understand it as a "service
> fee" for use of money, I have a problem with the current implementation
> of interest.
> 
> If I were to lend $100 and if interest were a fee, I would say "I'm
> giving you $100, and I'd like you to pay me $5 a month until you pay it
> back." You would know that if you paid me back in one year, you would
> have given me $160 in total.
> 
> As it works now, another "service fee" in the form of compound interest
> is tacked on the $5. I'm "lending" you another $5 (that I may or may not
> have) so that you may pay me, with yet another service fee for a service
> I did not provide. Can some economist explain to me why (if?) it *has*
> to be that way?
> 
> > Like I said, it's no sillier than getting paid for providing any other
> > service.
> 
> If I were paid according to the rules of compound interest, I would be a
> millionaire by now. _Compound_ interest serves no purpose but to line
> bankers' pockets with money. Maybe I'm being naive...
> 
> > I'm amazed at the number of people who don't understand this. Of
> > course, most people tend to think of money as being real in and of
> > itself, rather than a means of "keeping score" in the economy.
> 
> IMHO, it is the currency speculators and certain other cogs in the
> economic wheel who have corrupted in some way, the original purpose of
> money: they have changed it into a "good" in and of itself.
> 
> Admittedly, my knowledge of economics is superficial, but I fail to
> understand how compounding interest fosters a healthy economy.

Compound intrest is a pretty basic economic idea. If the banker, rather
than lending the money to you, had invested the money elsewhere he could
then reinvest the interest he earned. Reinvesting his earning will
compound his money.  If you want him to lend money to you you have to be
willing to give him more than he can get elsewhere.

Example:

You want to buy a car.  You want to borrow $10,000 dollars from the
bank.  You want to wait 2 years and pay it off in 1 lump sum. (Payments
as you go works similarly but are harder to understand - this is a basic
example). Suppose that instead of lending the money to you the banker
puts it into a stock fund that earns 2% per quarter and pays him
quarterly dividends.  He than reinvests those dividends into the stock
fund as follows.

Quarter		$ Principal	$ Earnings (at quarters end)
Q1		10,000		200
Q2		10,200		204
Q3		10,404		208
Q4		10,612		212
Q5		10,824		216
Q6		11,040		221
Q7		11,261		225
Q8		11,486		230
End of Loan $11,716
Earnings on 2 year loan of $10,000 = $1716
Annual Earnings 8.24%

So if you want him to loan the money to _you_ rather than investing it
elsewhere you have to pay him the compound intrest he will get
elsewhere.  Think of it this way, when he loans you the money he is not
just loosing the money he is loosing the opportunity to reinvest what he
would be earning elsewhere and therefore compounding his money for him.


- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:08:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

You wrote: 

>station, and he said that they were working on it.  Then, the 
interviewer
>said that Mir was up and had been up for awhile and he replied, "But 
Mir is
>nothing more than a tin-can in space!"

Mir is not only nothing more than a tin-can in space, it is a decrepit, 
falling-apart tin-can in space.  

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:53:46 +0000
From: "Bill Hopper" <whopper@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative

> From:          shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> > My opinion differs.  I think that a large handgun or .45 caliber submachine
> > gun will cause a significant breathing hazard if frequently and repeatedly
> > fired in an enclosed space over the course of a 5-10 minute battle.
> 
> It's likely to trigger the fire suppression systems, or at least trip
> the ventilation sensors to run the airflow at "high". (BTW, I have yet
> to see an indoor firing range that meets the standards for airflow in
> places like offices, much less industrial work areas)

It is much more likely that, in the case of a fire, the ventilation 
system would shut down the airflow in order to minimize the spread of 
the fire.  I read that this was a lesson learned on Mir, and that the 
software which controls ventilation on the space station _Freedom_ 
was modified to turn the ventilation fans _off_ ifthere is a fire.

WKH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:12:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

You wrote: 

>The table for nukes is very important, both for wargaming (because
>different amounts of damage affect units at different distances from
>ground zero) and for role-playing.  A role-playing example would be a
>situation where the PCs are trying to figure out whether a nuke was
>used, and if so, how big it was.  The reasons for the interest might 
be
>to determine whether the Imperial rules of war were violated or what
>level of threat they or their employer might be facing.

That's a no-brainer.  If your Geiger counters goes 'buzzzz' instead of 
click-click, and your photographic film badges turn black, someone 
either whoopsed with a fission plant, or tossed a baby nuke around.  
But nukes are important for those of us who are wargamer-oriented (I 
consider myself a wargamer who RPGs as a change of pace) or whose 
campaigns are militarily oriented (Keep in mind, boys and girls.  
According to Striker II, Imperial APC carried missles with .1Kt 
warheads.  Not someone you want to bother-and pretty common).

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:53:46 +0000
From: "Bill Hopper" <whopper@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller-long

> From:          Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
> Glenn Hoppe wrote:
> > In Your Traveller Universe, if you try to jump too near to a planet, you
> > precipitate out at 100 diameters. Yet while in jumpspace, you are
> > unaffected by normal space! So how did jumpspace "know" that you should
> > precipitate out *before* you get close to the planet?
> 
> I don't see the contradiction. While in jumpspace, you are unaffected
> by realspace gravitational forces (and everything else in realspace,
> for that matter).
> When you enter jumpspace, the conditions must be right to establish
> a jump field around your ship. One of these conditions is the absence
> of significant gravitational force. This requirement applies when 
> you're in realspace.
> When you exit jumpspace, there must still be an absence of 
> gravitational force in order for you to enter normal space.

Erwin is correct, there is no contradiction.  Gravity only affects 
ships as they _enter_ and _leave_ jumpspace.  Jumpspace doesn't 
"know" ( or care ):) how close you are to a planet until you try to 
exit.  And it is not the measured distance from the planet that matters 
so much as the amount of gravitational force which is present in 
realspace as you try to re-enter it. 

WKH

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:22:28 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: The usual

MJ Dougherty writes:

>I bet anyone, any money, that I could defend the rest of the world against
>the USA, indefinitely. maybe even my cat could. I'm not demeaning the USA -
>they have the best kit in the world, and I'm bloody glad we're on the same
>side. But they couldn't take over the world by military means. Not in two
>or a thousand years. They couldn't keep it if they did. 

   Make the right person dictator-for-life of the USA, and I'll bet he
or she can.  Of course the transformation necessary to pull it off would
make the US something Americans wouldn't want to live in.  Also, as I
pointed out in an earlier lengthy post, conquest is not the same as
being able to keep the land (unless you are willing to de-populate it).

   We more or less reach the same conclusion from different routes.

>There are other ways; economic and cultural conquest, for example. 
>Those might work. But not military.

   Americans have always prefered to send out its merchants, and until
after WW II, maintained only enough of a military to keep other people
from bothering us (with a few notable exceptions).  In some ways, that's
still very much true even after 1945.

>One other thing. Look at Mogadishu, for example. The USA isn't very good at
>taking casualties. All that technology and firepower has led to a situation
>where the taking of casualties shakes morale.

   Kinda of a lousy example actually.  The American people were told
that Somalia was a relief mission, and pictures taken by the mass media
of the landing of American troops (taken from cameras stationed on
shore!) did nothing to change public opinion.  Quietly the American
military was directed to escalate things, the nobody got around to
preparing the American people for it.  The results were predictable.

   During the Vietnam War, the American people kept being told that
victory was "just around the corner" by the Johnson Administration and
the generals in charge.  When the Tet Offensive was launched, it became
apparent that the war was going to take much longer than the supposed
forecasts (given the Johnson Administration policy for fighting it,
**much** longer).  Public opinion turned against the war from there on
out.

   The Gulf War represents the correct way to handle things with the
American public.  American officers giving press briefings refused to be
pinned down on how long the war would take, or how many casualties were
expected.  The Iraqi capabilities were fully spelled out (not
de-emphasized as the enemy capabilities were during Vietnam), and press
briefers repeatedly emphasized that a hard fight (thus the *potential*
for high casualties) could be expected.

   Properly prepared, and provided with a reasonable cause why blood
must be shed, Americans will accept whatever casualties are necessary to
achieve victory.  The two largest conflicts in our history (the American
Civil War and WW II) should be proof enough.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:34:12 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex

John Atkinson wrote: 

>>>   Continuing the analogy...
>
>Beating it into the ground.

   With a hammer.  :-)


>>>>   Thereby creating a new empire (Byzantium) that was Greek, not 
>>>>Latin.
>>>
>>>Yet who's armies continued to march under banners bearing 'SPQR'.  
>>
>>   And how many of the soldiers who marched under it knew what it 
>>meant?
>
>That would require literacy, would it not?  And considering (the 
>competent) half of the army was barbarian mercenaries. . . 

   True, a motley collection from Scandanavia and Lord knows where
else.  All the more reason to treat Byzantium as a seperate empire, with
roots perhaps in the old one.

>>>Just don't buy any red footware unless you are really, really, really 
>>>sure of yourself.
>>
>>   Or are prepared to be blinded, exiled, poisoned, stabbed, drown,
>>strangled or overrun by Crusaders or Turks in the process.
>
>Damn Crusaders.

   Hey, why should you expect the Doge of Venice to pay to have horses
made for one of his buildings when he can steal them from the
Hippodrome?  :-)

>PS:This is good.  A pro-Byzantine thread on my favorite newsgroup, and 
>now one on a mailing list. . .

   Beats the hell out of "why TNE sucks and GURPS is a good thing" talk.

Regards,

Harold

P.S. You people need to be told how you can relate this discussion to
Traveller?!

- --h

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:24:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: While we're at it...

In mail you write:

> On 11 Sep 97 at 10:53, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>> Speaking of Lahti's, here is a 3g3 design of a 20mm bolt-action SS
>> sniper rifle based on a real life design by a company called Pauza
>> Specialities, which also makes .50 BMG cal rifles, and .50 cal
>> pistols (no, _NOT_ BMG, but the .50 Action Express round. It's
>> actually a Ruger Super Blackhawk conversion) 
>
>         Can't say anything about .50 AE - will try a friend's Desert Eagle 
> prolly next week.

I've been told that a crazy gunsmith in Canada made a .50 BMG *pistol*.
Basicly a bolt action rifle action mounted on one hell of a pistol grip!

>         Sounds pretty much like the .50 BMG sniper I got to play with 
> yesterday. Didn't get to fire it, unfortunately. The rifle was about 
> 1.4 meters long overall, with about 90cm barrel (and a 5cm recoil 
> compensator), and weighted about 20 kg. It too was a single-shot 
> weapon. However, using ball ammunition the rifle is accurate out to 
> 1600 meters, DS increases this up to 2 km.

I've *seen* ads for .30 cal and .50 cal "machingeguns". They look just
like the classic military weaopons, fire the same ammo, and are
belt-fed. But these are legal to own, because they are only semi-auto.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:47:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller-long

In mail you write:

> I put a lot of thought into why standing jumps are standard.  Unless 
> there are significant risks to a running jump (we called it jumping 
> 'hot'), everyone would do it.  IMTU, it works like this: (BTW, I have 
> not tried to write this down before, but will try to make it clear.)
> When a ship enters jump, it is absolutely and totally divorced from 
> normal space.  It cannot be affected by any event in normal space 
> until it re-enters normal space.  In order to conserve energy, it 
> retains its normal space velocity as potential energy.  When the ship 
> re-enters normal space, the potential becomes kinetic and the velocity 
> is re-established.  The key question is - velocity with relation to 
> _what_? The answer is- to the local gravity well.

Sorry, but that *doesn't* conserve energy. And there isn't a "local
gravity well". At any point in the universe you are in the gravity well
of every other object in the universe.

If you mean "the gravity well of the object exerting the strongest
gravity pull on the vessel", then it is possible to play all sorts of
games just by jumping between planets in the same star system. Consider
that a velocity of X with respect to earth is a lot different than a
velocity of X with respect to Jupiter. You could play with velocities
and jump entrance/exit points and get some rather interesting velocity
effects. 

> When a ship enters jumpspace, its velocity _relative to the local   
> gravity well_ is retained.  Once in jump, all relation to the normal 
> universe is severed.  The ship 'loses its orientation' with respect 
> to real space.  When exiting jump, the ship must 'reorient' in the 
> normal universe.  If there is a local gravity well, the ship orients 
> on it, retaining its velocity in relation to it. 
>
> This interpretation has many implications.  First of all, for normal 
> merchants, etc., it makes no sense to do anything other than a standing 
> jump. If you retain any 'outbound' velocity before jump, you will 
> still be 'outbound' after jump and will have to overcome that vector before 
> you can approach your destination.  In addition, the standing jump is 
> less difficult to accomplish.  

You forget that velocity is a *vector*. It has a *direction* as well as
a magnitude. Your idea only accounts for the magnitude. For a
direction, you need not just the (effectively) point source of the
planet. You need another point to tie down the vector.

Remember, the vector is *not* merely away from the planet or towards
the planet. There's going to be a "sideways" component. And *that* is
where you need the outside reference point. Otherwise, the "sideways"
part of the vector can be pointing in any direction, and a fleet
jumping "together" would wind up with that vector pointing in random
directions.

Consider that due to the uncertainty in jump, you could come out
"ahead" of the planet, "behind" it, or "next to" it (with respect to
the planet's orbital motion). So it it had a velocity vector that
breaks down into X directly towards or away from the planet, and Y at
right angles to that, the Y would be pointing in different directions
depending on the length of the jump.

> The second implication is that if a ship is inbound on a running 
> jump, it is hostile and should be engaged immediately.  The reason 
> for this is that you really have to work at it to be inbound on a 
> running jump.  You have to go past the jump point, turn around and 
> accelerate back before jumping.  There are very few reasons for doing 
> this (and none that I can think of right now) that are not military 
> and hostile.

With the "true conservation" method, you can *try* to get such a
vector, but depending on whether you come out early, late, or "on
time" you can come out quite a ways from the planet (remember, in one
hour earth moves around 100,000 kilometers). Thus, your vector could be
pointing in a rather useless direction. :-)

> Another interesting implication is that if there is no gravity well 
> where you are jumping to or jumping from, your velocity is 
> predictable but your vector is not.  This makes it very 
> d/a/n/g/e/r/o/u/s/ interesting to do a running jump in these situations.

There is *always* a gravity well. The question is how strong it is.

BTW, the "preciptation from jump" bit has some problems. You certainly
can't *aim* the ship to *deliberately* let your destination force you
out of jump. Consider how small an angle a 100 dia circle subtends at
one parsec (about .01 seconds of arc). Pointing a ship that accurately
ain't gonna happen. One sneeze and you are pointing elsewhere.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:46:55 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: America 2300 ad

Hans Rancke-Madsen writes: 

>>The United States was nuked in 1997, invaded by Mexico and the Soviet 
>>Divison Cuba, and had a three way civil war going with the majority of 
>>its military stranded overseas.
>
>The three way civil war is the real killer. With that you can justify any
>outcome, from a complete recovery (well, you bounced back pretty well from
>the First Civil War, right?) down to the complete disappearance of the US 
>as a political entity. Making the US a second rate power is just about the 
>middle of the range.

   Unfortunately, this scenario also fails to take into account the
tendency of Americans to unite in the face of a foreign threat.  With
Mexican troops north of the Rio Grande (I'm still trying to figure out
how, but...), the civil war is on hold until everything else is
resolved.  CivGov, MilGov, and even New America troops would have been
sent to kick the Mexicans south.  In fact, I could easily see a scenario
where the temporary uniting against the Mexican threat would have
resulted in a new permanent government being formed.

   A "whole" America still could have ended up lagging behind the rest
of the world after 300 years (particularly if it became isolationist and
stopped interacting on a commerical basis with the rest of the world). 
Though I didn't get around to running a 2300 AD campaign (I do own the
game), if I had done so, it would have been a slightly variant one in
which the US still owns southern California, etc.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:01:12 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1814

unsubscribe traveller-digest

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:59:31 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Fiction.

Good story there, although I much prefer the ones told in 3rd person.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:11:47 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Plague of Duskir

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- --------------DE1DC50560A96940109AB286
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You co-designed "Space Opera"?  I have some of that, the main boxed set
to be precise, and I wrote a BASIC program based on the solarsystem
charts in it.  It took me a few years to figure out a way of making
those odd charts work in a program.

I'll attach the BASIC program, tell me what you think?
- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com


- --------------DE1DC50560A96940109AB286
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name="Worlds.bas"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Worlds.bas"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ren.globecomm.net id AAA24107

0 CLEAR:GOSUB 694:CLS
2 RANDOMIZE TIMER
4 A=3DFNA(100)
6 IF A<81 THEN GOSUB 82
8 IF A>80 AND A<86 THEN GOSUB 90
10 IF A>85 AND A<91 THEN GOSUB 96
12 IF A>90 AND A<96 THEN GOSUB 100
14 IF A>95 THEN GOSUB 102
16 NP=3DFNA(11)+1
18 P$=3DSTR$(NP)
20 GOSUB 46:GOSUB 218:GOSUB 108:PRINT:PRINT
22 SC=3D0:S$=3D"":TY=3D0:RM=3D0:T=3D0:TEI=3D0:K1=3D0:PD=3D0:AT$=3D"":ZX=3D=
0
24 AP$=3D"":AP=3D0:P$=3D"":TEK=3D0:QT=3D0:A=3D0:SR=3D0:SK=3D0:ASA=3D0:SA$=
=3D"":LC$=3D"":SB$=3D""
26 PP$=3D"":CI=3D0:SG=3D0:ED=3D0:ROA=3D0:AL=3D0:AM$=3D"":MST=3D0:MSD=3D0:=
IE=3D0:AAL=3D0:U=3D0
28 RESTORE:CLS:GOTO 4
30 END
32 DATA 1.1,.8,.6,.4,.4,.4,.3,.8,.2,1.9,1.4,1,.8,.7,.6,.5,1.5,.3
34 DATA 2.7,2,1.4,1.2,1,.8,.7,2.2,.4,4.3,3.2,2.2,2,1.6,1.2,1.1,3.3,.6
36 DATA 7.5,5.6,3.8,3.6,2.8,2,1.9,5.7,1,13.9,10.4,7,6.8,5.2,3.6,2.8,2,1.8
38 DATA 26.7,20,13.4,13.2,10,6.8,6.7,19.9,3.4,52.3,39.2,26.2,26,19.6,13.2
40 DATA 13.1,38.7,6.6,103.5,78.6,51.8,51.6,38.8,26,25.9,77.5,13,204.8,154=
..4
42 DATA 103,102.8,77.2,51.6,51.5,152.9,25.8,410.7,308,205.4,205.2,154,102=
..8
44 DATA 102.7,307,51.4,820.3,615.2,410.2,410,307.6,205.2,205.1,612.7,102.=
6
46 IF S$=3D"TYPE O; BLUE" THEN TY=3D9:T=3D1:TEK=3D5:K1=3D4:U=3D1
48 IF S$=3D"TYPE B; BLUE-WHITE" THEN TY=3D7:T=3D2:TEK=3D4:K1=3D3:U=3D2
50 IF S$=3D"TYPE A; WHITE" THEN TY=3D6:T=3D3:TEK=3D3:K1=3D2:U=3D3
52 IF S$=3D"TYPE F; YELLOW-WHITE" THEN TY=3D5:T=3D4:TEK=3D2:K1=3D1.5:U=3D=
4
54 IF S$=3D"TYPE G; YELLOW" THEN TY=3D4:T=3D5:TEK=3D1:K1=3D1:U=3D5
56 IF S$=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE" THEN TY=3D3:T=3D6:TEK=3D0:K1=3D.75:U=3D6
58 IF S$=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE" THEN TY=3D2:T=3D7:TEK=3D-1:K1=3D.5:U=3D7
60 IF S$=3D"N TYPE" THEN TY=3D1:T=3D8:TEK=3D-1:K1=3D.3:U=3D8
62 IF S$=3D"S TYPE" THEN TY=3D1:T=3D8:TEK=3D-2:K1=3D.3:U=3D9
64 IF S$=3D"PROTOSTAR" THEN TY=3D0:T=3D9:TEK=3D-3:K1=3D.1:U=3D10
66 IF S$=3D"RED SUBDWARF" THEN TY=3D0:T=3D9:TEK=3D-3:K1=3D.1:U=3D11
68 IF S$=3D"TYPE O; BLUE GIANT" THEN TY=3D9:T=3D1:TEK=3D7:K1=3D5:U=3D12
70 IF S$=3D"TYPE B; BLUE-WHITE GIANT" THEN TY=3D7:T=3D2:TEK=3D6:K1=3D4:U=3D=
13
72 IF S$=3D"TYPE A; WHITE GIANT" THEN TY=3D6:T=3D3:TEK=3D5:K1=3D3:U=3D14
74 IF S$=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE GIANT" THEN TY=3D3:T=3D6:TEK=3D4:K1=3D1.75:U=3D=
15
76 IF S$=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE GIANT" THEN TY=3D2:T=3D7:TEK=3D1:K1=3D1.5:=
U=3D16
78 IF S$=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE SUPERGIANT" THEN TY=3D2:T=3D7:TEK=3D2:K1=3D=
2.5:U=3D17
80 IF S$=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE SUPERGIANT" THEN TY=3D3:T=3D6:TEK=3D3:K1=3D2.7=
5:U=3D18
81 RETURN
82 A=3DFNA(7):MS$(1)=3D"TYPE O; BLUE":MS$(2)=3D"TYPE B; BLUE-WHITE"
84 MS$(3)=3D"TYPE A; WHITE":MS$(4)=3D"TYPE F; YELLOW-WHITE"
86 MS$(5)=3D"TYPE G; YELLOW":MS$(6)=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE"
88 MS$(7)=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE":S$=3DMS$(A):RETURN
90 A=3DFNA(5):GS$(1)=3D"TYPE O; BLUE GIANT":GS$(2)=3D"TYPE B; BLUE-WHITE =
GIANT"
92 GS$(3)=3D"TYPE A; WHITE GIANT":GS$(4)=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE GIANT"
94 GS$(5)=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE GIANT":S$=3DGS$(A):RETURN
96 A=3DFNA(2):SG$(1)=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE SUPERGIANT"
98 SG$(2)=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE SUPERGIANT":S$=3DSG$(A):RETURN
100 S$=3D"RED SUBDWARF":RETURN
102 A=3DFNA(3):SP$(1)=3D"PROTOSTAR":SP$(2)=3D"S TYPE":SP$(3)=3D"N TYPE"
104 S$=3DSP$(A):RETURN
106 RETURN
108 REM PLANET SUBROUTINE
110 FOR QT =3D 1 TO NP
112 IF QT=3D2 THEN RM=3DTY
114 FOR Y =3D 1 TO T+RM:READ SC:NEXT Y
116 PD=3DFNA(10):D=3D(FNA(16)+2)*1000
118 IF S$=3D"S TYPE" THEN PD=3DPD+2
120 IF S$=3D"N TYPE" THEN PD=3DPD+4
122 IF D<6001 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(10)/10
124 IF D>6000 AND D<9001 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(20)/10
126 IF D>9000 AND D<12001 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(30)/10
128 IF D>12000 AND D<15001 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(40)/10
130 IF D>15000 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(50)/10
132 A=3DFNA(10):AB=3DA*G:A=3DFNA(6):IF A =3D1 THEN AP=3DAB/10
134 IF A=3D6 THEN AP=3DAB*100
136 IF A<>1 AND A<>6 THEN AP=3DAB
138 TEI=3DTEK-QT
140 GOSUB 272
150 IF QT<NP/2 THEN PT$=3D"Terrestrial"
152 IF QT>NP/2 AND QT<NP THEN A=3DFNA(100)
154 IF A<31 THEN PT$=3D"Terrestrial" ELSE PT$=3D"Jovian"
156 IF QT=3DNP THEN PT$=3D"Terrestrial"
158 TA=3D((277/SQR(SC)*K1)+(AP/10)-273.18)*1.8+17.8
160 AAP=3D(AP/10)*14.7:AP$=3DSTR$(AAP)+" lbs/psi"
162 IF AT$=3D"Vacuum" THEN AP$=3D"None":AP=3D1
164 IF PT$=3D"Jovian" THEN GOSUB 528 ELSE GOSUB 368
166 A$=3D"PLANET NUMBER:":Y$=3D"SURFACE GRAVITY CONSTANT:":GG=3DG*6.67
168 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(QT)
170 PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(GG)+" x 10-8 dyne cm-c gm-2"
172 A$=3D"SURFACE GRAVITY:":Y$=3D"ESCAPE VELOCITY (at 1 km. altitude):"
174 PRINT A$;" ";G:PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(V)+" km/sec."
176 A$=3D"ORBITAL VELOCITY:":Y$=3D"SIDEREAL REVOLUTION:"
178 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(OV)+" km/sec."
180 PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(POR)+" yrs."
182 A$=3D"ORBITAL ECCENTRICITY:":Y$=3D"INCLINATION OF ORBIT TO ECLIPTIC:"
184 PRINT A$;" ";EC:PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(INC)+" degrees"
186 A$=3D"AXIAL ROTATION:":Y$=3D"AXIAL TILT"
188 PRINT A$;" ";AR$:PRINT Y$;" ";AXT$
190 A$=3D"TYPE OF MOTION:":Y$=3D"ALBEDO":DFP#=3DAU*1.621
192 PRINT A$;" ";TM$:PRINT Y$;" ";ALB#
194 A$=3D"MEAN SURFACE TEMPERATURE (deg.F) :":Y$=3D"ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE:=
"
196 PRINT A$;" ";TA:PRINT Y$;" ";AP$
198 A$=3D"ORBITAL RANGE (AU) :":Y$=3D"DISTANCE FROM PRIMARY:"
200 PRINT A$;" ";SC:PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(DFP#)+" km."
202 A$=3D"EQUATORIAL DIAMETER:":Y$=3D"CIRCUMFERENCE:"
204 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(D)+" km":PRINT Y$;" ";CIRC$
206 A$=3D"PLANETARY DENSITY:":Y$=3D"TYPE OF ATMOSPHERE:":DD=3DPD*5.517
208 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(DD)+" g cm-3":PRINT Y$;" ";AT$
210 A$=3D"PLANET TYPE:":Y$=3D"ORBITAL MATTER:"
212 PRINT A$;" ";PT$:PRINT Y$;" ";OM$
214 GOSUB 628:CLS:NEXT QT
216 GOSUB 628:CLS:RETURN
218 GOSUB 416:GOSUB 606:CLS
220 A$=3D"STAR TYPE:":Y$=3D"SPECTRAL CLASS:"
222 PRINT A$;" ";SA$:PRINT Y$;" ";SB$
224 A$=3D"STELLAR CLASSIFICATION:":Y$=3D"GALACTIC ORBIT:"
226 PRINT A$;" ";PP$:PRINT Y$;" ";GO$
228 A$=3D"LUMINOSITY CLASS:":Y$=3D"APPARENT LUMINOSITY:"
230 PRINT A$;" ";LC$:PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(AL)+" x 10-26 watts"
232 A$=3D"ABSOLUTE MAGNITUDE:":Y$=3D"APPARENT STELLAR AGE:"
234 PRINT A$;" ";AM$
236 PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(ASA)+" gigayears"
238 A$=3D"MEAN SURFACE TEMPERATURE:":Y$=3D"SOLAR MASS:"
240 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(MST)+" degrees F'":PRINT Y$;" ";SM$
242 A$=3D"SURFACE GRAVITY:":Y$=3D"ESCAPE VELOCITY:"
244 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(SG)+" gee's":PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(EV)+" km/sec."
246 A$=3D"EQUATORIAL DIAMETER:":Y$=3D"PERIOD OF ROTATION:"
248 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(ED#)+" km.":PRINT Y$;" ";ROA$
250 A$=3D"MEAN SOLAR DENSITY:":Y$=3D"INCLINATION OF EQUATOR TO ORBITAL PL=
ANE:"
252 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(MSD)+" x 10-30 kg.":PRINT Y$;" ";IE$
254 A$=3D"CIRCUMFERENCE:":CIR$=3DSTR$(CI#)+" km.":Y$=3D"NUMBER OF PLANETS=
:"
256 PRINT A$;" ";CIR$:PRINT Y$;" ";P$
258 A$=3D"SYSTEM DEBRIS:":Y$=3D"RANGE FROM PRIMARY:"
260 PRINT A$;" ";ORB$
262 RFP=3DFNA(10)+10:RFP$=3DSTR$(RFP)+" astronimical units"
264 IF ORB$=3D"Nothing in System" THEN RFP$=3D"Non-applicable"
266 PRINT Y$;" ";RFP$
268 GOSUB 628:CLS
270 RETURN
272 IF TEI<=3D-10 THEN GOSUB 300:RETURN
273 IF TEI=3D-8 XOR TEI=3D-9 THEN GOSUB 307:RETURN
274 IF TEI<-4 AND TEI>-8 THEN GOSUB 314:RETURN
275 IF TEI<0 AND TEI>-5 THEN GOSUB 332:RETURN
276 IF TEI>=3D0 THEN GOSUB 350:RETURN
300 A=3DFNA(100):IF A<=3D5 THEN AT$=3D"Inert Gas"
301 IF A>5 AND A<11 THEN AT$=3D"Ammonia"
302 IF A>10 AND A<31 THEN AT$=3D"Sulphur-Nitrogen"
303 IF A>30 AND A<90 THEN AT$=3D"Vacuum"
304 IF A=3D90 THEN AT$=3D"Radon"
305 IF A>90 THEN AT$=3D"Liquid Halogens"
306 RETURN
307 A=3DFNA(100):IF A<=3D10 THEN AT$=3D"Inert Gas"
308 IF A>10 AND A<26 THEN AT$=3D"Ammonia"
309 IF A>25 AND A<31 THEN AT$=3D"Sulphur-Nitrogen"
310 IF A>30 AND A<90 THEN AT$=3D"Vacuum"
311 IF A=3D90 THEN AT$=3D"Radon"
312 IF A>90 THEN AT$=3D"Liguid Halogens"
313 RETURN
314 A=3DFNA(100):IF A<11 THEN AT$=3D"Inert Gas"
315 IF A>10 AND A<16 THEN AT$=3D"Oxygen-Nitrogen"
316 IF A>15 AND A<31 THEN AT$=3D"Methane"
317 IF A>30 AND A<39 THEN AT$=3D"Ammonia"
318 IF A>30 AND A<39 THEN AT$=3D"Ammonia"
319 IF A>38 AND A<43 THEN AT$=3D"Chlorine"
320 IF A>42 AND A<47 THEN AT$=3D"Fluorine"
321 IF A>46 AND A<53 THEN AT$=3D"Sulphur-Nitrogen"
322 IF A=3D53 THEN AT$=3D"Nitric"
323 IF A=3D54 THEN AT$=3D"Hydrochluoric"
324 IF A=3D55 THEN AT$=3D"Hydrofluoric"
325 IF A=3D56 THEN AT$=3D"Sodium Hydroxide"
326 IF A=3D57 THEN AT$=3D"Potassium Hydroxide"
327 IF A>57 AND A<61 THEN AT$=3D"Carbon dioxide"
328 IF A>60 AND A<64 THEN AT$=3D"Biotic Soup"
329 IF A>63 AND A<100 THEN AT$=3D"Vacuum"
330 IF A=3D100 THEN AT$=3D"Radon"
331 RETURN
332 A=3DFNA(100):IF A<=3D5 THEN AT$=3D"Inert Gas"
333 IF A>5 AND A<21 THEN AT$=3D"Oxygen-Nitrogen"
334 IF A>20 AND A<26 THEN AT$=3D"Methane"
335 IF A>25 AND A<29 THEN AT$=3D"Ammonia"
336 IF A>28 AND A<36 THEN AT$=3D"Chlorine"
337 IF A>35 AND A<43 THEN AT$=3D"Fluorine"
338 IF A>42 AND A<51 THEN AT$=3D"Sulphur-Nitrogen"
339 IF A=3D51 THEN AT$=3D"Nitric"
340 IF A=3D52 THEN AT$=3D"Hydrochluoric"
341 IF A=3D53 THEN AT$=3D"Hydrofluoric"
342 IF A=3D54 THEN AT$=3D"Sodium Hydroxide"
343 IF A=3D55 THEN AT$=3D"Potassium Hydroxide"
344 IF A>55 AND A<61 THEN AT$=3D"Carbon dioxide"
345 IF A>60 AND A<64 THEN AT$=3D"Biotic Soup"
346 IF A>63 AND A<91 THEN AT$=3D"Vacuum"
347 IF A>90 AND A<100 THEN AT$=3D"Gaseous Bromine"
348 IF A=3D100 THEN AT$=3D"Radon"
349 RETURN
350 A=3DFNA(100):IF A<3 THEN AT$=3D"Inert Gas"
351 IF A>3 AND A<9 THEN AT$=3D"Sulphur-Nitrogen"
352 IF A=3D9 THEN AT$=3D"Nitric"
353 IF A=3D10 THEN AT$=3D"Hydrochluoric"
354 IF A>10 AND A<16 THEN AT$=3D"Carbon dioxide"
355 IF A>15 AND A<51 THEN AT$=3D"Metallic Vapor"
356 IF A>50 AND A<96 THEN AT$=3D"Vacuum"
357 IF A>95 AND A<100 THEN AT$=3D"Gaseous Bromine"
358 IF A=3D100 THEN AT$=3D"Radon"
360 RETURN
368 RA=3DD/2:R=3DRA*.6169034800000006#:H=3D1:F=3D5280:GA=3D32.2
370 VA=3D2*GA
372 VB=3D(R+H)*F
374 VC=3DVA/VB
376 VD=3DSQR(VC):VE=3DR*VD:V=3DVE*1.621
378 EC=3DRND(1)*.25
380 INC=3DRND(1)*50
382 ALB#=3DAP*2.00001E-04
384 AQ=3DFNA(100):IF AQ<91 THEN TM$=3D"Posigrade" ELSE TM$=3D"Retrograde"
386 AXT=3DRND(1)*40:IF AXT > 28 THEN AXT=3DRND(1)*90
388 IF AXT > 86 THEN AXT=3DRND(1)*180
390 AXT$=3DSTR$(AXT)+" degrees"
392 CIRC#=3DD*3.141592653589796#:CIRC$=3DSTR$(CIRC#)+" km"
394 OM=3DFNA(100):IF OM<51 THEN OM$=3D"None"
396 IF OM>50 AND OM<96 THEN OM$=3DSTR$(FNA(15))+" Moons"
398 IF OM>95 THEN OM$=3DSTR$(FNA(8))+" Rings"
400 POR=3DSQR(SC*SC*SC):PS=3DPOR*31557000#:AU=3DSC*92287396.94#
402 SMA=3DAU*2:OC=3DSMA*3.141592653589796#
404 A=3DFNA(100):IF A>80 THEN ARD$=3DSTR$(FNA(364))+" dys" ELSE ARD$=3D"0=
 dys"
406 A=3DFNA(23):ARH$=3DSTR$(A)+" hrs"
408 A=3DFNA(60):ARM$=3DSTR$(A)+" mins"
410 A=3DFNA(60):ARS$=3DSTR$(A)+" secs"
412 AR$=3DARD$+ARH$+ARM$+ARS$
414 OV=3D(OC/PS)*1.621:RETURN
416 SA$=3DMID$(S$,6,1):IF U<8 THEN LC$=3D"V; main sequence star"
418 IF U=3D8 THEN LC$=3D"IVp; carbon star":SA$=3D"N"  =20
420 IF U=3D9 THEN LC$=3D"IVm; zirconium star":SA$=3D"S"  =20
422 IF U=3D10 THEN LC$=3D"VIn; T tauri star"         =20
424 IF U=3D11 THEN LC$=3D"VIsd; subluminous star"       =20
426 IF U>11 AND U<17 THEN LC$=3D"III; giant star"
428 IF U=3D17 THEN LC$=3D"Ib; super-giant star"
430 IF U=3D18 THEN LC$=3D"Ia; bright super-giant star"
432 IF U<3 THEN PP$=3D"extreme population I":GO$=3D"circular"
434 IF U=3D9 OR U=3D10 THEN PP$=3D"extreme population I":GO$=3D"circular"
436 IF U>16 THEN PP$=3D"extreme population I":GO$=3D"circular"
438 IF U>2 AND U<9 THEN PP$=3D"older population I":GO$=3D"approx. circula=
r"
440 IF U>11 AND U<17 THEN PP$=3D"older population I":GO$=3D"approx. circu=
lar"
442 IF U=3D11 THEN PP$=3D"halo population II":GO$=3D"very eccentric"
444 IF SA$=3D"O" THEN SB$=3D"blue":MST=3DFNA(100000!)+55000!
446 IF SA$=3D"B" THEN SB$=3D"blue-white":MST=3DFNA(15999)+20001
448 IF SA$=3D"A" THEN SB$=3D"white":MST=3DFNA(6499)+13501
450 IF SA$=3D"F" THEN SB$=3D"yellow-white":MST=3DFNA(2000)+11001
452 IF SA$=3D"G" THEN SB$=3D"yellow":MST=3DFNA(3499)+7501
454 IF SA$=3D"K" THEN SB$=3D"orange":MST=3DFNA(1999)+5501
456 IF SA$=3D"M" THEN SB$=3D"red-orange":MST=3DFNA(1999)+3501
458 IF U=3D10 THEN SB$=3D"variable":MST=3DFNA(1000)+2000
460 IF U=3D8 THEN SB$=3D"red":MST=3DFNA(1000)+2500
462 IF U=3D9 THEN SB$=3D"red":MST=3DFNA(1000)+2500
464 IF U=3D11 THEN SB$=3D"red":MST=3DFNA(1000)+2500
466 AAL=3D3.83
467 IF SA$=3D"P" THEN SA$=3D"Protostar"
468 SR=3DFNA(200000000#)+100000000#
469 IF SA$=3D"U" THEN SA$=3D"Red Subdwarf"
470 IF U<11 THEN ED#=3DSR:AL=3DAAL:ASA=3DFNA(9):MSD=3DPSD*.255498
471 IF U=3D11 THEN ED#=3DSR:AL=3DAAL:ASA=3DFNA(9):MSD=3DPSD*.255498
472 IF U=3D12 THEN ED#=3DSR/2:AL=3DAAL*30:ASA=3D(FNA(1)+9)+RND(.65)
474 IF U>12 AND U<17 THEN ED#=3DSR*FNA(50):AL=3DAAL*1500:ASA=3D(FNA(1)+9)=
+RND(.65)
476 IF U>16 THEN ED#=3DSR*FNA(25)+25:AL=3DAAL*100:ASA=3D(FNA(1)+9)+RND(.6=
5)
478 CI#=3DED#*3.141592653589796#:SVA=3DED#*.6169034800000006#
480 SVB=3D(SVA*SVA*SVA)*5236:SVOL=3DSVB*1.621
482 IF U<8 THEN SM=3DRND(.1)*20:AM=3DFNA(10)
484 IF U>7 AND U<10 THEN SM=3D(RND(.1)*20)+RND(.1)*10:AM=3DFNA(5)+10
486 IF U>9 AND U<12 THEN SM=3DRND(.1)*5:AM=3DFNA(5)+8
488 IF U>11 AND U<17 THEN SM=3D(RND(.1)*20)+RND(.1)*20:AM=3DINT(RND(1)*-5=
)
490 IF U>16 THEN SM=3D(RND(.1)*20)+RND(.1)*25:AM=3DINT(RND(1)*-10)
492 SM$=3DSTR$(SM)+" Solar Masses"
494 MSD=3DSM/SVOL:IE=3DFNA(180):IE$=3DSTR$(IE)+" degrees"
496 AMA$=3DSTR$(AM):AMB$=3D"+"
498 IF AM>0 THEN AM$=3DAMB$+AMA$ ELSE AM$=3DAMA$
500 RA=3DED#/2:R=3DRA*.6169034800000008#:H=3D1:F=3D5280:GA=3D32.2
502 VA=3D2*GA
504 VB=3D(R+H)*F
506 VC=3DVA/VB
508 VD=3DSQR(VC):VE=3DR*VD:EV=3DVE*1.621
510 A=3DFNA(100):IF A>25 THEN ARD$=3DSTR$(FNA(364))+" dys" ELSE ARD$=3D"0=
 dys"
512 A=3DFNA(23):ARH$=3DSTR$(A)+" hrs"
514 A=3DFNA(60):ARM$=3DSTR$(A)+" mins"
516 A=3DFNA(60):ARS$=3DSTR$(A)+" secs"
518 ROA$=3DARD$+ARH$+ARM$+ARS$
520 IF U<12 THEN SG=3D(FNA(MSD)/10)+FNA(20)*9
522 IF U>11 AND U<17 THEN SG=3D(FNA(MSD)/10)+FNA(10)*7
524 IF U>16 THEN SG=3D(FNA(MSD)/10)+FNA(5)*5
526  RETURN
528 D#=3D(FNA(19)+1)*10000
530 A=3DFNA(6):IF A=3D1 THEN PD=3D.7
532 IF A=3D2 THEN PD=3D.8
534 IF A=3D3 THEN PD=3D.9
536 IF A=3D4 THEN PD=3D1
538 IF A=3D5 THEN PD=3D1.2
540 IF A=3D6 THEN PD=3D1.4
542 B=3DFNA(6):IF B=3D1 THEN G=3D2.5
544 IF B=3D2 THEN G=3D3
546 IF B=3D3 THEN G=3D3
548 IF B=3D4 THEN G=3D3.5
550 IF B=3D5 THEN G=3D4
552 IF B=3D6 THEN G=3D5
554 IF TEI>-8 THEN AT$=3D"Methane-Ammonia" ELSE AT$=3D"Ammonia"
556 AP$=3D"Non-applicable"
558 RA=3DD/2:R=3DRA*.6169034800000007#:H=3D1:F=3D5280:GA=3D32.2
560 VA=3D2*GA
562 VB=3D(R+H)*F
564 VC=3DVA/VB
566 VD=3DSQR(VC):VE=3DR*VD:V=3DVE*1.621
568 EC=3DRND(1)*.25
570 INC=3DRND(1)*50
572 ALB=3DAP*2.00001E-04
574 AQ=3DFNA(100):IF AQ<91 THEN TM$=3D"Posigrade" ELSE TM$=3D"Retrograde"
576 AXT=3DRND(1)*40:IF AXT > 28 THEN AXT=3DRND(1)*90
578 IF AXT > 86 THEN AXT=3DRND(1)*180
580 AXT$=3DSTR$(AXT)+" degrees"
582 CIRC#=3DD*3.141592653589796#:CIRC$=3DSTR$(CIRC#)+" km"
584 OM=3DFNA(100):IF OM<21 THEN OM$=3D"None"
586 IF OM>50 AND OM<96 THEN OM$=3DSTR$(FNA(30))+" Moons"
588 IF OM>95 THEN OM$=3DSTR$(FNA(15))+" Rings"
590 POR=3DSQR(SC*SC*SC):PS=3DPOR*31557000#:AU=3DSC*92287396.94#
592 SMA=3DAU*2:OC=3DSMA*3.141592653589796#
594 A=3DFNA(100):IF A>80 THEN ARD$=3DSTR$(FNA(364))+" dys" ELSE ARD$=3D"0=
 dys"
596 A=3DFNA(23):ARH$=3DSTR$(A)+" hrs"
598 A=3DFNA(60):ARM$=3DSTR$(A)+" mins"
600 A=3DFNA(60):ARS$=3DSTR$(A)+" secs"
602 AR$=3DARD$+ARH$+ARM$+ARS$
604 OV=3D(OC/PS)*1.621:RETURN
606 A=3DFNA(6):IF A=3D1 THEN ORB$=3D"Nothing in System"
608 IF A=3D2 THEN ORB$=3D"Asteroid Belt"
610 IF A=3D3 THEN ORB$=3D"Nebular Matter Belt"
612 IF A=3D4 THEN ORB$=3D"Oort Cloud"
614 IF A>4 THEN ORB$=3D"Nothing in System"
626 RETURN
628 PRINT:A$=3D"SPACEBAR/(Cont)":PRINT A$,
630 A$=3D"ESC/Exit":PRINT A$,
632 PRINT "RETURN/New Star System"
634 K$=3DINKEY$:IF K$=3D"" THEN 634
636 IF K$=3D" " THEN RETURN
638 IF K$=3DCHR$(27) THEN GOSUB 648
640 IF K$=3DCHR$(13) THEN 0
642 GOTO 634
648 CLS
650 PRINT "                  =D5=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=D1=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=D1=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B8"
652 PRINT "                  =B3=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B3=
Exit Menu=B3=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B3"
653 PRINT "                  =C6=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CF=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CF=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B5"
654 PRINT "                  =B3             {D}-Dmsguide            =B3"
655 PRINT "                  =B3             {P}-Products            =B3"
656 PRINT "                  =B3             {T}-Tradpost            =B3"
657 PRINT "                  =B3             {S}-System              =B3"
658 PRINT "                  =B3             {N}-Npcgen4             =B3"
659 PRINT "                  =B3             {C}-Calcpro3            =B3"
660 PRINT "                  =B3             {X}-Mainterm            =B3"
662 PRINT "                  =B3             {G}-Gunchart            =B3"
664 PRINT "                  =B3             {E}-End                 =B3"
666 PRINT "                  =D4=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BE"
670 K$=3DINKEY$:IF K$=3D"" THEN 670
672 IF K$=3D"d" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"DMSGUIDE=
"
674 IF K$=3D"p" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"PRODUCTS=
"
676 IF K$=3D"t" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"TRADPOST=
"
678 IF K$=3D"s" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Returning to MS-DOS ***":SYSTEM
680 IF K$=3D"n" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"NPCGEN4"
682 IF K$=3D"c" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"CALCPRO3=
"
684 IF K$=3D"x" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"MAINTERM=
"
688 IF K$=3D"g" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"GUNCHART=
"
690 IF K$=3D"e" THEN CLS:END
692 GOTO 670
694 FOR X =3D 1 TO 40 : PRINT: NEXT X
699 PRINT "                 =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=BB"
700 PRINT "                 =BA Welcome To : Star System Maker           =
 =BA"
702 PRINT "                 =BA Created By : Jory M. Earl on May 14, 1989=
 =BA"
704 PRINT "                 =BA Revised On : April 17, 1995 for IBM      =
 =BA"
706 PRINT "                 =C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=BC"
714 FOR X =3D 1 TO 4000: NEXT X
716 DEF FNA(X)=3DINT(RND(1)*X)+1:FOR X =3D 1 TO 108:READ X:NEXT X:RESTORE
718 DIM B$(9),C$(17),E$(17),H$(6),MS$(8),GS$(6),SG$(3),SD$(3),SP$(5)
720 FOR X =3D 1 TO 30:FOR Y =3D 1 TO 25: NEXT Y:PRINT: NEXT X
722 RETURN
=1A
- --------------DE1DC50560A96940109AB286
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name="Worldgen.bas"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Worldgen.bas"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ren.globecomm.net id AAA24107

0 CLEAR:GOSUB 694:CLS
2 RANDOMIZE TIMER
4 A=3DFNA(100)
6 IF A<81 THEN GOSUB 82
8 IF A>80 AND A<86 THEN GOSUB 90
10 IF A>85 AND A<91 THEN GOSUB 96
12 IF A>90 AND A<96 THEN GOSUB 100
14 IF A>95 THEN GOSUB 102
16 NP=3DFNA(11)+1
18 P$=3DSTR$(NP)
20 GOSUB 46:GOSUB 218:GOSUB 108:PRINT:PRINT
22 SC=3D0:S$=3D"":TY=3D0:RM=3D0:T=3D0:TEI=3D0:K1=3D0:PD=3D0:AT$=3D"":ZX=3D=
0
24 AP$=3D"":AP=3D0:P$=3D"":TEK=3D0:QT=3D0:A=3D0:SR=3D0:SK=3D0:ASA=3D0:SA$=
=3D"":LC$=3D"":SB$=3D""
26 PP$=3D"":CI=3D0:SG=3D0:ED=3D0:ROA=3D0:AL=3D0:AM$=3D"":MST=3D0:MSD=3D0:=
IE=3D0:AAL=3D0:U=3D0
28 RESTORE:CLS:GOTO 4
30 END
32 DATA 1.1,.8,.6,.4,.4,.4,.3,.8,.2,1.9,1.4,1,.8,.7,.6,.5,1.5,.3
34 DATA 2.7,2,1.4,1.2,1,.8,.7,2.2,.4,4.3,3.2,2.2,2,1.6,1.2,1.1,3.3,.6
36 DATA 7.5,5.6,3.8,3.6,2.8,2,1.9,5.7,1,13.9,10.4,7,6.8,5.2,3.6,2.8,2,1.8
38 DATA 26.7,20,13.4,13.2,10,6.8,6.7,19.9,3.4,52.3,39.2,26.2,26,19.6,13.2
40 DATA 13.1,38.7,6.6,103.5,78.6,51.8,51.6,38.8,26,25.9,77.5,13,204.8,154=
..4
42 DATA 103,102.8,77.2,51.6,51.5,152.9,25.8,410.7,308,205.4,205.2,154,102=
..8
44 DATA 102.7,307,51.4,820.3,615.2,410.2,410,307.6,205.2,205.1,612.7,102.=
6
46 IF S$=3D"TYPE O; BLUE" THEN TY=3D9:T=3D1:TEK=3D5:K1=3D4:U=3D1:RETURN
48 IF S$=3D"TYPE B; BLUE-WHITE" THEN TY=3D7:T=3D2:TEK=3D4:K1=3D3:U=3D2:RE=
TURN
50 IF S$=3D"TYPE A; WHITE" THEN TY=3D6:T=3D3:TEK=3D3:K1=3D2:U=3D3:RETURN
52 IF S$=3D"TYPE F; YELLOW-WHITE" THEN TY=3D5:T=3D4:TEK=3D2:K1=3D1.5:U=3D=
4:RETURN
54 IF S$=3D"TYPE G; YELLOW" THEN TY=3D4:T=3D5:TEK=3D1:K1=3D1:U=3D5:RETURN
56 IF S$=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE" THEN TY=3D3:T=3D6:TEK=3D0:K1=3D.75:U=3D6:RETU=
RN
58 IF S$=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE" THEN TY=3D2:T=3D7:TEK=3D-1:K1=3D.5:U=3D7:=
RETURN
60 IF S$=3D"N TYPE" THEN TY=3D1:T=3D8:TEK=3D-1:K1=3D.3:U=3D8:RETURN
62 IF S$=3D"S TYPE" THEN TY=3D1:T=3D8:TEK=3D-2:K1=3D.3:U=3D9:RETURN
64 IF S$=3D"PROTOSTAR" THEN TY=3D0:T=3D9:TEK=3D-3:K1=3D.1:U=3D10:RETURN
66 IF S$=3D"RED SUBDWARF" THEN TY=3D0:T=3D9:TEK=3D-3:K1=3D.1:U=3D11:RETUR=
N
68 IF S$=3D"TYPE O; BLUE GIANT" THEN TY=3D9:T=3D1:TEK=3D7:K1=3D5:U=3D12:R=
ETURN
70 IF S$=3D"TYPE B; BLUE-WHITE GIANT" THEN TY=3D7:T=3D2:TEK=3D6:K1=3D4:U=3D=
13:RETURN
72 IF S$=3D"TYPE A; WHITE GIANT" THEN TY=3D6:T=3D3:TEK=3D5:K1=3D3:U=3D14:=
RETURN
74 IF S$=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE GIANT" THEN TY=3D3:T=3D6:TEK=3D4:K1=3D1.75:U=3D=
15:RETURN
76 IF S$=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE GIANT" THEN TY=3D2:T=3D7:TEK=3D1:K1=3D1.5:=
U=3D16:RETURN
78 IF S$=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE SUPERGIANT" THEN TY=3D2:T=3D7:TEK=3D2:K1=3D=
2.5:U=3D17:RETURN
80 IF S$=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE SUPERGIANT" THEN TY=3D3:T=3D6:TEK=3D3:K1=3D2.7=
5:U=3D18:RETURN
82 A=3DFNA(7):MS$(1)=3D"TYPE O; BLUE":MS$(2)=3D"TYPE B; BLUE-WHITE"
84 MS$(3)=3D"TYPE A; WHITE":MS$(4)=3D"TYPE F; YELLOW-WHITE"
86 MS$(5)=3D"TYPE G; YELLOW":MS$(6)=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE"
88 MS$(7)=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE":S$=3DMS$(A):RETURN
90 A=3DFNA(5):GS$(1)=3D"TYPE O; BLUE GIANT":GS$(2)=3D"TYPE B; BLUE-WHITE =
GIANT"
92 GS$(3)=3D"TYPE A; WHITE GIANT":GS$(4)=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE GIANT"
94 GS$(5)=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE GIANT":S$=3DGS$(A):RETURN
96 A=3DFNA(2):SG$(1)=3D"TYPE K; ORANGE SUPERGIANT"
98 SG$(2)=3D"TYPE M; RED-ORANGE SUPERGIANT":S$=3DSG$(A):RETURN
100 A=3DFNA(2):SD$(1)=3D"RED SUBDWARF":SD$(2)=3D"WHITE SUBDWARF":S$=3DSD$=
(A):RETURN
102 A=3DFNA(4):SP$(1)=3D"CT SYSTEM":SP$(2)=3D"PROTOSTAR":SP$(3)=3D"S TYPE=
"
104 SP$(4)=3D"N TYPE":S$=3DSP$(A):RETURN
106 RETURN
108 REM PLANET SUBROUTINE
110 FOR QT =3D 1 TO NP
112 IF QT=3D2 THEN RM=3DTY
114 FOR Y =3D 1 TO T+RM:READ SC:NEXT Y
116 PD=3DFNA(10):D=3D(FNA(16)+2)*1000
118 IF S$=3D"S TYPE" THEN PD=3DPD+2
120 IF S$=3D"N TYPE" THEN PD=3DPD+4
122 IF D<6001 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(10)/10
124 IF D>6000 AND D<9001 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(20)/10
126 IF D>9000 AND D<12001 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(30)/10
128 IF D>12000 AND D<15001 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(40)/10
130 IF D>15000 THEN G=3D(FNA(PD)/10)+FNA(50)/10
132 A=3DFNA(10):AB=3DA*G:A=3DFNA(6):IF A =3D1 THEN AP=3DAB/10
134 IF A=3D6 THEN AP=3DAB*100
136 IF A<>1 AND A<>6 THEN AP=3DAB
138 TEI=3DTEK-QT
140 IF TEI=3D>0 THEN GOSUB 272
142 IF TEI<0 AND TEI>-5 THEN GOSUB 290
144 IF TEI<-4 AND TEI>-8 THEN GOSUB 324
146 IF TEI<-7 AND TEI>-10 THEN GOSUB 356
148 IF TEI<-9 THEN GOSUB 356
150 IF QT<NP/2 THEN PT$=3D"Terrestrial"
152 IF QT>NP/2 AND QT<NP THEN A=3DFNA(100)
154 IF A<31 THEN PT$=3D"Terrestrial" ELSE PT$=3D"Jovian"
156 IF QT=3DNP THEN PT$=3D"Terrestrial"
158 TA=3D((277/SQR(SC)*K1)+(AP/10)-273.18)*1.8+17.8
160 AAP=3D(AP/10)*14.7:AP$=3DSTR$(AAP)+" lbs/psi"
162 IF AT$=3D"VACUUM" THEN AP$=3D"NONE":AP=3D1
164 IF PT$=3D"Jovian" THEN GOSUB 528 ELSE GOSUB 368
166 A$=3D"PLANET NUMBER:":Y$=3D"SURFACE GRAVITY CONSTANT:":GG=3DG*6.67
168 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(QT)
170 PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(GG)+" x 10-8 dyne cm-c gm-2"
172 A$=3D"SURFACE GRAVITY:":Y$=3D"ESCAPE VELOCITY (at 1 km. altitude):"
174 PRINT A$;" ";G:PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(V)+" km/sec."
176 A$=3D"ORBITAL VELOCITY:":Y$=3D"SIDEREAL REVOLUTION:"
178 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(OV)+" km/sec."
180 PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(POR)+" yrs."
182 A$=3D"ORBITAL ECCENTRICITY:":Y$=3D"INCLINATION OF ORBIT TO ECLIPTIC:"
184 PRINT A$;" ";EC:PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(INC)+" degrees"
186 A$=3D"AXIAL ROTATION:":Y$=3D"AXIAL TILT"
188 PRINT A$;" ";AR$:PRINT Y$;" ";AXT$
190 A$=3D"TYPE OF MOTION:":Y$=3D"ALBEDO":DFP#=3DAU*1.621
192 PRINT A$;" ";TM$:PRINT Y$;" ";ALB#
194 A$=3D"MEAN SURFACE TEMPERATURE (deg.F) :":Y$=3D"ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE:=
"
196 PRINT A$;" ";TA:PRINT Y$;" ";AP$
198 A$=3D"ORBITAL RANGE (AU) :":Y$=3D"DISTANCE FROM PRIMARY:"
200 PRINT A$;" ";SC:PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(DFP#)+" km."
202 A$=3D"EQUATORIAL DIAMETER:":Y$=3D"CIRCUMFERENCE:"
204 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(D)+" km":PRINT Y$;" ";CIRC$
206 A$=3D"PLANETARY DENSITY:":Y$=3D"TYPE OF ATMOSPHERE:":DD=3DPD*5.517
208 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(DD)+" g cm-3":PRINT Y$;" ";AT$
210 A$=3D"PLANET TYPE:":Y$=3D"ORBITAL MATTER:"
212 PRINT A$;" ";PT$:PRINT Y$;" ";OM$
214 GOSUB 628:CLS
216 NEXT QT:RETURN
218 GOSUB 416:GOSUB 606:CLS
220 A$=3D"STAR TYPE:":Y$=3D"SPECTRAL CLASS:"
222 PRINT A$;" ";SA$:PRINT Y$;" ";SB$
224 A$=3D"STELLAR CLASSIFICATION:":Y$=3D"GALACTIC ORBIT:"
226 PRINT A$;" ";PP$:PRINT Y$;" ";GO$
228 A$=3D"LUMINOSITY CLASS:":Y$=3D"APPARENT LUMINOSITY:"
230 PRINT A$;" ";LC$:PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(AL)+" x 10-26 watts"
232 A$=3D"ABSOLUTE MAGNITUDE:":Y$=3D"APPARENT STELLAR AGE:"
234 PRINT A$;" ";AM$
236 PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(ASA)+" gigayears"
238 A$=3D"MEAN SURFACE TEMPERATURE:":Y$=3D"SOLAR MASS:"
240 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(MST)+" degrees F'":PRINT Y$;" ";SM$
242 A$=3D"SURFACE GRAVITY:":Y$=3D"ESCAPE VELOCITY:"
244 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(SG)+" gee's":PRINT Y$;" ";STR$(EV)+" km/sec."
246 A$=3D"EQUATORIAL DIAMETER:":Y$=3D"PERIOD OF ROTATION:"
248 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(ED#)+" km.":PRINT Y$;" ";ROA$
250 A$=3D"MEAN SOLAR DENSITY:":Y$=3D"INCLINATION OF EQUATOR TO ORBITAL PL=
ANE:"
252 PRINT A$;" ";STR$(MSD)+" x 10-30 kg.":PRINT Y$;" ";IE$
254 A$=3D"CIRCUMFERENCE:":CIR$=3DSTR$(CI#)+" km.":Y$=3D"NUMBER OF PLANETS=
:"
256 PRINT A$;" ";CIR$:PRINT Y$;" ";P$
258 A$=3D"SYSTEM DEBRIS:":Y$=3D"RANGE FROM PRIMARY:"
260 PRINT A$;" ";ORB$
262 RFP=3DFNA(10)+10:RFP$=3DSTR$(RFP)+" astronimical units"
264 IF ORB$=3D"Nothing in System" THEN RFP$=3D"Non-applicable"
266 PRINT Y$;" ";RFP$
268 GOSUB 628:CLS
270 RETURN
272 B=3DFNA(9):B$(1)=3D"INERT GAS"
274 B$(2)=3D"SULPHUR-NITROGEN"
276 B$(3)=3D"HYDROFLUORIC"
278 B$(4)=3D"HYDROCHLORIC"
280 B$(5)=3D"CARBON-DIOXIDE"
282 B$(6)=3D"METALLIC VAPOR"
284 B$(7)=3D"VACUUM"
286 B$(8)=3D"GASEOUS BROMINE"
288 B$(9)=3D"RADON":AT$=3DB$(B):RETURN
290 C=3DFNA(17):C$(1)=3D"INERT GAS"
292 C$(2)=3D"OXYGEN-NITROGEN"
294 C$(3)=3D"METHANE"
296 C$(4)=3D"AMMONIA"
298 C$(5)=3D"CHLORINE"
300 C$(6)=3D"FLUORINE"
302 C$(7)=3D"SULPHUR-NITROGEN"
304 C$(8)=3D"HYDROFLUORIC"
306 C$(9)=3D"HYDROCHLORIC"
308 C$(10)=3D"AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE"
310 C$(11)=3D"SODIUM HYDROXIDE"
312 C$(12)=3D"HYDROGEN SULFIDE"
314 C$(13)=3D"CARBON-DIOXIDE"
316 C$(14)=3D"BIOTIC COMPOUND"
318 C$(15)=3D"VACUUM"
320 C$(16)=3D"GASEOUS BROMINE"
322 C$(17)=3D"RADON":AT$=3DC$(C):RETURN
324 E=3DFNA(17):E$(1)=3D"INERT GAS"
326 E$(2)=3D"OXYGEN-NITROGEN"
328 E$(3)=3D"METHANE"
330 E$(4)=3D"AMMONIA"
332 E$(5)=3D"CHLORINE"
334 E$(6)=3D"FLUORINE"
336 E$(7)=3D"SULPHUR-NITROGEN"
338 E$(8)=3D"HYDROFLUORIC"
340 E$(9)=3D"HYDROCHLORIC"
342 E$(10)=3D"AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE"
344 E$(11)=3D"SODIUM HYDROXIDE"
346 E$(12)=3D"HYDROGEN SULFIDE"
348 E$(13)=3D"CARBON-DIOXIDE"
350 E$(14)=3D"BIOTIC COMPOUND"
352 E$(15)=3D"VACUUM"
354 E$(16)=3D"RADON":AT$=3DE$(E):RETURN
356 H=3DFNA(6):H$(1)=3D"INERT GAS"
358 H$(2)=3D"AMMONIA"
360 H$(3)=3D"SULPHUR-NITROGEN"
362 H$(4)=3D"VACUUM"
364 H$(5)=3D"RADON"
366 H$(6)=3D"LIQUID HALOGENS":AT$=3DH$(H):RETURN
368 RA=3DD/2:R=3DRA*.6169034800000006#:H=3D1:F=3D5280:GA=3D32.2
370 VA=3D2*GA
372 VB=3D(R+H)*F
374 VC=3DVA/VB
376 VD=3DSQR(VC):VE=3DR*VD:V=3DVE*1.621
378 EC=3DRND(1)*.25
380 INC=3DRND(1)*50
382 ALB#=3DAP*2.00001E-04
384 AQ=3DFNA(100):IF AQ<91 THEN TM$=3D"Posigrade" ELSE TM$=3D"Retrograde"
386 AXT=3DRND(1)*40:IF AXT > 28 THEN AXT=3DRND(1)*90
388 IF AXT > 86 THEN AXT=3DRND(1)*180
390 AXT$=3DSTR$(AXT)+" degrees"
392 CIRC#=3DD*3.141592653589796#:CIRC$=3DSTR$(CIRC#)+" km"
394 OM=3DFNA(100):IF OM<51 THEN OM$=3D"None"
396 IF OM>50 AND OM<96 THEN OM$=3DSTR$(FNA(15))+" Moons"
398 IF OM>95 THEN OM$=3DSTR$(FNA(8))+" Rings"
400 POR=3DSQR(SC*SC*SC):PS=3DPOR*31557000#:AU=3DSC*92287396.94#
402 SMA=3DAU*2:OC=3DSMA*3.141592653589796#
404 A=3DFNA(100):IF A>80 THEN ARD$=3DSTR$(FNA(364))+" dys" ELSE ARD$=3D"0=
 dys"
406 A=3DFNA(23):ARH$=3DSTR$(A)+" hrs"
408 A=3DFNA(60):ARM$=3DSTR$(A)+" mins"
410 A=3DFNA(60):ARS$=3DSTR$(A)+" secs"
412 AR$=3DARD$+ARH$+ARM$+ARS$
414 OV=3D(OC/PS)*1.621:RETURN
416 SA$=3DMID$(S$,6,1):IF U<8 THEN LC$=3D"V; main sequence star"
418 IF U=3D8 THEN LC$=3D"IVp; carbon star":SA$=3D"N"
420 IF U=3D9 THEN LC$=3D"IVm; zirconium star":SA$=3D"S"
422 IF U=3D10 THEN LC$=3D"VIn; T tauri star":SA$=3D"P"
424 IF U=3D11 THEN LC$=3D"VIsd; subluminous star":SA$=3D"R"
426 IF U>11 AND U<17 THEN LC$=3D"III; giant star"
428 IF U=3D17 THEN LC$=3D"Ib; super-giant star"
430 IF U=3D18 THEN LC$=3D"Ia; bright super-giant star"
432 IF U<3 THEN PP$=3D"extreme population I":GO$=3D"circular"
434 IF U=3D9 OR U=3D10 THEN PP$=3D"extreme population I":GO$=3D"circular"
436 IF U>16 THEN PP$=3D"extreme population I":GO$=3D"circular"
438 IF U>2 AND U<9 THEN PP$=3D"older population I":GO$=3D"approx. circula=
r"
440 IF U>11 AND U<17 THEN PP$=3D"older population I":GO$=3D"approx. circu=
lar"
442 IF U=3D11 THEN PP$=3D"halo population II":GO$=3D"very eccentric"
444 IF SA$=3D"O" THEN SB$=3D"blue":MST=3DFNA(100000!)+55000!
446 IF SA$=3D"B" THEN SB$=3D"blue-white":MST=3DFNA(15999)+20001
448 IF SA$=3D"A" THEN SB$=3D"white":MST=3DFNA(6499)+13501
450 IF SA$=3D"F" THEN SB$=3D"yellow-white":MST=3DFNA(2000)+11001
452 IF SA$=3D"G" THEN SB$=3D"yellow":MST=3DFNA(3499)+7501
454 IF SA$=3D"K" THEN SB$=3D"orange":MST=3DFNA(1999)+5501
456 IF SA$=3D"M" THEN SB$=3D"red-orange":MST=3DFNA(1999)+3501
458 IF U=3D10 THEN SB$=3D"variable":MST=3DFNA(1000)+2000
460 IF U=3D8 THEN SB$=3D"red":MST=3DFNA(1000)+2500
462 IF U=3D9 THEN SB$=3D"red":MST=3DFNA(1000)+2500
464 IF U=3D11 THEN SB$=3D"red":MST=3DFNA(1000)+2500
466 AAL=3D3.83
468 SR=3DFNA(200000000#)+100000000#
470 IF U<11 THEN ED#=3DSR:AL=3DAAL:ASA=3DFNA(9):MSD=3DPSD*.255498
472 IF U=3D12 THEN ED#=3DSR/2:AL=3DAAL*30:ASA=3D(FNA(1)+9)+RND(.65)
474 IF U>12 AND U<17 THEN ED#=3DSR*FNA(50):AL=3DAAL*1500:ASA=3D(FNA(1)+9)=
+RND(.65)
476 IF U>16 THEN ED#=3DSR*FNA(25)+25:AL=3DAAL*100:ASA=3D(FNA(1)+9)+RND(.6=
5)
478 CI#=3DED#*3.141592653589796#:SVA=3DED#*.6169034800000006#
480 SVB=3D(SVA*SVA*SVA)*5236:SVOL=3DSVB*1.621
482 IF U<8 THEN SM=3DRND(.1)*20:AM=3DFNA(10)
484 IF U>7 AND U<10 THEN SM=3D(RND(.1)*20)+RND(.1)*10:AM=3DFNA(5)+10
486 IF U>9 AND U<12 THEN SM=3DRND(.1)*5:AM=3DFNA(5)+8
488 IF U>11 AND U<17 THEN SM=3D(RND(.1)*20)+RND(.1)*20:AM=3DINT(RND(1)*-5=
)
490 IF U>16 THEN SM=3D(RND(.1)*20)+RND(.1)*25:AM=3DINT(RND(1)*-10)
492 SM$=3DSTR$(SM)+" Solar Masses"
494 MSD=3DSM/SVOL:IE=3DFNA(180):IE$=3DSTR$(IE)+" degrees"
496 AMA$=3DSTR$(AM):AMB$=3D"+"
498 IF AM>0 THEN AM$=3DAMB$+AMA$ ELSE AM$=3DAMA$
500 RA=3DED#/2:R=3DRA*.6169034800000008#:H=3D1:F=3D5280:GA=3D32.2
502 VA=3D2*GA
504 VB=3D(R+H)*F
506 VC=3DVA/VB
508 VD=3DSQR(VC):VE=3DR*VD:EV=3DVE*1.621
510 A=3DFNA(100):IF A>25 THEN ARD$=3DSTR$(FNA(364))+" dys" ELSE ARD$=3D"0=
 dys"
512 A=3DFNA(23):ARH$=3DSTR$(A)+" hrs"
514 A=3DFNA(60):ARM$=3DSTR$(A)+" mins"
516 A=3DFNA(60):ARS$=3DSTR$(A)+" secs"
518 ROA$=3DARD$+ARH$+ARM$+ARS$
520 IF U<12 THEN SG=3D(FNA(MSD)/10)+FNA(20)*9
522 IF U>11 AND U<17 THEN SG=3D(FNA(MSD)/10)+FNA(10)*7
524 IF U>16 THEN SG=3D(FNA(MSD)/10)+FNA(5)*5
526  RETURN
528 D#=3D(FNA(19)+1)*10000
530 A=3DFNA(6):IF A=3D1 THEN PD=3D.7
532 IF A=3D2 THEN PD=3D.8
534 IF A=3D3 THEN PD=3D.9
536 IF A=3D4 THEN PD=3D1
538 IF A=3D5 THEN PD=3D1.2
540 IF A=3D6 THEN PD=3D1.4
542 B=3DFNA(6):IF B=3D1 THEN G=3D2.5
544 IF B=3D2 THEN G=3D3
546 IF B=3D3 THEN G=3D3
548 IF B=3D4 THEN G=3D3.5
550 IF B=3D5 THEN G=3D4
552 IF B=3D6 THEN G=3D5
554 IF TEI>-8 THEN AT$=3D"Methane-Ammonia" ELSE AT$=3D"Ammonia"
556 AP$=3D"Non-applicable"
558 RA=3DD/2:R=3DRA*.6169034800000007#:H=3D1:F=3D5280:GA=3D32.2
560 VA=3D2*GA
562 VB=3D(R+H)*F
564 VC=3DVA/VB
566 VD=3DSQR(VC):VE=3DR*VD:V=3DVE*1.621
568 EC=3DRND(1)*.25
570 INC=3DRND(1)*50
572 ALB=3DAP*2.00001E-04
574 AQ=3DFNA(100):IF AQ<91 THEN TM$=3D"Posigrade" ELSE TM$=3D"Retrograde"
576 AXT=3DRND(1)*40:IF AXT > 28 THEN AXT=3DRND(1)*90
578 IF AXT > 86 THEN AXT=3DRND(1)*180
580 AXT$=3DSTR$(AXT)+" degrees"
582 CIRC#=3DD*3.141592653589796#:CIRC$=3DSTR$(CIRC#)+" km"
584 OM=3DFNA(100):IF OM<21 THEN OM$=3D"None"
586 IF OM>50 AND OM<96 THEN OM$=3DSTR$(FNA(30))+" Moons"
588 IF OM>95 THEN OM$=3DSTR$(FNA(15))+" Rings"
590 POR=3DSQR(SC*SC*SC):PS=3DPOR*31557000#:AU=3DSC*92287396.94#
592 SMA=3DAU*2:OC=3DSMA*3.141592653589796#
594 A=3DFNA(100):IF A>80 THEN ARD$=3DSTR$(FNA(364))+" dys" ELSE ARD$=3D"0=
 dys"
596 A=3DFNA(23):ARH$=3DSTR$(A)+" hrs"
598 A=3DFNA(60):ARM$=3DSTR$(A)+" mins"
600 A=3DFNA(60):ARS$=3DSTR$(A)+" secs"
602 AR$=3DARD$+ARH$+ARM$+ARS$
604 OV=3D(OC/PS)*1.621:RETURN
606 A=3DFNA(10):IF A<9 THEN ORB$=3D"Nothing in Solar System"
607 IF A=3D9 THEN ORB$=3D"Asteroid Belt"
608 IF A=3D10 THEN ORB$=3D"Nebular Matter Belt"
626 RETURN
628 PRINT:A$=3D"SPACEBAR/(Cont)":PRINT A$,
630 A$=3D"ESC/Exit":PRINT A$,
632 PRINT "RETURN/New Star System"
634 K$=3DINKEY$:IF K$=3D"" THEN 634
636 IF K$=3D" " THEN RETURN
638 IF K$=3DCHR$(27) THEN GOSUB 648
640 IF K$=3DCHR$(13) THEN 2
642 GOTO 634
648 CLS
650 PRINT "                  =D5=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=D1=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=D1=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B8"
652 PRINT "                  =B3=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B3=
Exit Menu=B3=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B1=B0=B1=B2=B3"
653 PRINT "                  =C6=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CF=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CF=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=B5"
654 PRINT "                  =B3             {D}-Dmsguide            =B3"
655 PRINT "                  =B3             {P}-Products            =B3"
656 PRINT "                  =B3             {T}-Tradpost            =B3"
657 PRINT "                  =B3             {S}-System              =B3"
658 PRINT "                  =B3             {N}-Npcgen4             =B3"
659 PRINT "                  =B3             {C}-Calcpro3            =B3"
660 PRINT "                  =B3             {X}-Mainterm            =B3"
662 PRINT "                  =B3             {G}-Gunchart            =B3"
664 PRINT "                  =B3             {E}-End                 =B3"
666 PRINT "                  =D4=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=BE"
670 K$=3DINKEY$:IF K$=3D"" THEN 670
672 IF K$=3D"d" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"DMSGUIDE=
"
674 IF K$=3D"p" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"PRODUCTS=
"
676 IF K$=3D"t" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"TRADPOST=
"
678 IF K$=3D"s" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Returning to MS-DOS ***":SYSTEM
680 IF K$=3D"n" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"NPCGEN4"
682 IF K$=3D"c" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"CALCPRO3=
"
684 IF K$=3D"x" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"MAINTERM=
"
688 IF K$=3D"g" THEN CLS:PRINT "*** Application Loading ***":RUN"GUNCHART=
"
690 IF K$=3D"e" THEN CLS:END
692 GOTO 670
694 FOR X =3D 1 TO 40 : PRINT: NEXT X
699 PRINT "                 =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=BB"
700 PRINT "                 =BA Welcome To : Star System Maker           =
 =BA"
702 PRINT "                 =BA Created By : Jory M. Earl on May 14, 1989=
 =BA"
704 PRINT "                 =BA Revised On : April 17, 1995 for IBM      =
 =BA"
706 PRINT "                 =C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=
=CD=CD=CD=CD=BC"
714 FOR X =3D 1 TO 4000: NEXT X
716 DEF FNA(X)=3DINT(RND(1)*X)+1:FOR X =3D 1 TO 108:READ X:NEXT X:RESTORE
718 DIM B$(9),C$(17),E$(17),H$(6)
720 FOR X =3D 1 TO 30:FOR Y =3D 1 TO 25: NEXT Y:PRINT: NEXT X
722 RETURN

- --------------DE1DC50560A96940109AB286--

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1816
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 13 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1817



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: America 2300ad
Re: Jump in Traveller-long
Re: Commentary
Re: America 2300ad
Re: T:2300 Sim
Re: While we're at it...
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1806
Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries:  Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: Jump torpedoes
Re: T IV - speculation
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Traveller Fiction.
Re: Reactionaries!
Re: While we're at it...
Re: Commentary
Re:Historical events

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:25:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

You wrote: 

>All the ones they use in cheap political thrillers today...the Military
>takes over to "Clean up things and save the country".

Cheap is right.  Most officers I've come in contact with (and I grew up 
on a series of posts, followed by living in the DC area with more full 
birds for neighbors and friends than I can count) wouldn't touch that 
sort of work if they were offered any reward I could name.  

>I haven't read the T2k stuff in a long time but the deal went like: US
>gets into WWIII...it doesn't turn into a cakewalk but bogs down horribly.
>The US mainland is nuked, the military declares martial law for the
>duration. The war drags on, things are getting bad in the US. The 

Military can't do that, and to think that they would step that far 
beyond their authority is. . . questionable.  Look at what doing that 
earned MacAurther.  Besides the contempt of most of the officer corps 
at the time.

>So we're left with state governments, the military command structure 
and
>some bureaucrats, and Congresscritters who happened to be out of town.
>Quick! who's 34th in succession to the Presidency?

The Congresscritter with the most seniority in the party with the 
majority before the war.  End of discussion.  If not any Congressmen 
left, than just about anyone who's been confirmed by Congress would 
qualify before an officer.  After that it gets a little hazy.

>Also, the invasion of the Southwest by Mexico is not as far fetched as one
>might think...Most of New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California _were_
>parts of Mexico that the US took by force of arms or force of economy. 

Bullshit.  I'm willing to bet on the Texas National Guard (read:49th 
Armored Division) against any army the Mexicans could ever throw out.  
Not to mention an ARMORED CORPS that just happens to be sitting in Fort Hood.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:14:36 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller-long

James Lindsay wrote:
> 
> But precipitating out of jump space is a natural event in Traveller.
> As a ship approaches the 100 diameter limit, it *automatically* exits
> jump space (according to canon, anyway).  For this to happen, the ship
> *must* be able to somehow perceive the gravity well.  It can do this
> in two ways: a) the ship can peer into normal space from jump space
> and "detect" the gravity well or b) elements of a gravity well exist
> in jump space to interact with the ship while still it is still in
> jump.
> 
> One can *choose* to exit jump space manually at a greater distance, of
> course.
> 

So, as I understand it, the 'canon' definition of jump drives has a
contradiction. It is canon that jumpspace and realspace have no
interaction. Yet you can't exist jumpspace without using one of the
two methods you mention.

A confusion canonical contradiction!

So, what's the solution? More alliteration on my part?
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:29:56 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Commentary

At 12:31 PM 9/12/97 -0800, Peter Newman wrote:
>Glenn Crawford wrote
>
>Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
>> > Remember that the last war America fought on it's own, we lost.
>
>> WHAT? I mean that. WHAT? This is a gross insult to the very brave South
>> Koreans, Thais, and Australians that joined America in the Vietnam war.
>
>I was assuming that Doug was refering to The U.S. Civil War (not
>Vietnam) when he said that the last war we fought on our own we lost.
>After all we must mean The Confederacy :)

Yeah!  that's what I meant, sure.. the Civil War, I was a Colonel, no a
GENERAL... that's the ticket..

No offense to the fine allied units that fought along side US forces in
Vietnam, but that was a US show under US command, and we managed to tie
ourselves into knots and completely fail to achhieve the stated mission.

AFAIK, the Australian and South Korean units in Vietnam carried out their
missions with skill and elan, and the Thai units showed their usual ferocity.


- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:25:30 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 10:02 PM 9/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>You wrote: 
>
>>What happened was after the nuclear spasm of Thanksgiving 1997, the US
>>Congress conviened and in an exceedingly irregular session, elected a
>>President.  The Joint Chiefs of Staff refused to accept the legitimacy 
>of
>>the new government, and held that martial law was still in effect.
>
>I just can't concieve of the military involving itself in politics to 
>that extent.  Not since the Society of Cincinnattus has a serving line 
>officer (other than McClellan-and he never contemplated mutiny) 
>interfered in US internal civillian politics, other than for the good 
>of the Service (i.e. trying to convince McCarthy to leave them alone, 
>begging Congress for money, etc.)

The thing is that the so-called Congress has very little legitimacy.. some
Congress-critters neverhaving seen the districts they claim to represent,
gunfights between rival claiments, and a very suspect Presidential sucession.

MilGov questioned the authority of the new government, and was promptly
denounced as traitors.. that set everything off.

>>Many units defected to CivGov, and low intensity fighting broke out
>>nation-wide.  Add in the right-wing organization New America, which was
>>setting up a "Christian white peoples state", and you can see where it was
>>going to take a long time to rebuild.
>
>That I can see.  Although they seem to be a little disorganized and 
>anarchistic to create a national movement.

In the T2K backround, there was one industrialist leader who did put
everything together.  Pure dramatic license, but I still remember how I
felt when we finally got home from Poland to discover what was happening in
the land of the Big PX...
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:55:31 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: T:2300 Sim

At 08:25 PM 9/12/97 -0500, Eris wrote:
>On 09/11/97 at 08:41 PM,  "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:

>>I always wondered, who played France?

>Doug, check out the inside front cover of Traveller 2300...

So ka!  My copy is missing the cover of the quoted book (torn off sometime
ago..)

Thanks to all who answered.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:01:46 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: While we're at it...

At 05:24 PM 9/12/97 PST, you wrote:

>I've been told that a crazy gunsmith in Canada made a .50 BMG *pistol*.
>Basicly a bolt action rifle action mounted on one hell of a pistol grip!

The Beast!  I have the T4 stats, and a photo of it, at the Pistol page:

http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/pistol.html

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:39:11 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

At 10:08 PM 9/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>You wrote: 
>
>>station, and he said that they were working on it.  Then, the 
>interviewer
>>said that Mir was up and had been up for awhile and he replied, "But 
>Mir is
>>nothing more than a tin-can in space!"
>
>Mir is not only nothing more than a tin-can in space, it is a decrepit, 
>falling-apart tin-can in space. 
 
<sarcasm>
Yeah!  Those incompetant Russkis need only look at *our* space station to
see how to do it right!
</sarcasm>
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:56:22 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1806

Phillip McGregor writes:

>Am alternate universe? What on earth do you call TNE? Historically there was
>continuity, but *technologically* the replacement of Thruster Plates with HePlar
>*completely* stuffed every previous product. *EVERY* previous product. To a
>greater or lesser degree. Of course, *I* would argue that TNE did more than
>damage Traveller a little.

   <insert usual statements defending TNE and denouncing hostile
attitudes on this list here> 

<snip>

>No, I think Steve is wise in heading off all this and cutting off both the
>TNE'ers and the MTravers at the knees by doing a Dallas.

   Well I know of **no** TNE fan that would object *whatsoever* if
somebody did a faithful reproduction of MegaTraveller material.  Would
we buy it?  Perhaps for the background material--knowledge of what was
going on during the Rebellion can be very important to a campaign set in
the New Era.

   As for "doing a Dallas", a lot of people stopped watching that show
as a result of what they did (I personally went from an occasional
watcher to deliberately avoiding it).  Bobby stepping out of the shower
("but it was only a dream") became a national joke.

   Let Loren do what he must, let SJG and IG and Marc do as they must as
well.  I'm not going to lecture Loren or any of the others on artistic
integrity.  They are big boys (and girls at IG and SJG I presume) and
know what that means.  What will happen next is for God/Fate/random acts
of quantum mechanics to decide.  I for one have charted my own
course--if it happens to correspond to the others, great.  If not, bon
chance.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:46:32 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries:  Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

At 01:09 PM 9/12/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Douglas E. Berry wrote:

>> For T4, I'd say that a Spectacular Sucess/Failure would be a good
>> mechanism, depending on the circumstance.. i.e., your shot goes wild and
>> smacks a junction box, plunging the corridor into darkness.
>
>Spectacular failure will work for MT as well. However, one still needs
>a table to look up exactly what ship's component gets affected by
>the bullet. 

Speaking as the guy writing perhaps the most rules-heavy combat sequence
for Traveller in it's history, I have to say there comes a point where the
Referee has to *run the game.*  Not everything can have a convienent table
or hard rule.

The best combat sessions I've ever had, from either side of the GM's
screen, are the ones where we weren't slaves to the rules and dice, but
allowed the GM some freedom to extrapolate from our actions, and apply
results as he saw fit.

If you have a detailed deckplan, like for the Azhanti High Lightning, you
can trace a line past the target and make a good guesstimate about where
the shot will strike, and the effects of the shot.  To try and come up with
tables for every deck and area on even the smallest ships would tax the
referee to the point of distraction!

>Perhaps treating it as a starship combat hit would work. The MT
>rules use the old High Guard table to determine hits. One of those
>is the Internal Explosion table. A major mishap could use that one
>and minor mishaps could use that one with half damage.

I can see Pirate Pete holding his 5mm body pistol on the 36-ton Jump
Drive.. "Back off, man, or I'll cause an interior explosin!!!!"
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:56:15 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Jump torpedoes

Hans Rancke-Madsen writes: 

>Harold Hale writes:
>>   This would not prohibit some techie down at the nearest Imperial
>>naval depot from proposing jump torepedos, and perhaps talking the
>>Imperial Navy into constructing a number of prototypes (perhaps even
>>enough to equip Leviathan) to see how they work as a real weapon. 
>>Having proven once again their impracticality (you have to figure this
>>happens every few hundred years or whenever there is an increase in TL),
>
>No you don't. If we assume jump torpedoes of the kind I've suggested
>(essentially a jump drive with an unfolding jump grid) then the type
>of jump capacitor used before ca. 1080 wouldn't allow jump torpedoes
>(though you mustn't ask me just what the difference is between pre-1080
>jump capacitors IS; I've never been able to come up with a good answer). 

   I wasn't aware that there was a difference.  Where does this appear
in Traveller publications?

>>the jump torpedos are disassembled and the project scrapped.
>
>Jump torpedoes may be useful enough, but if the earliest prototypes aren't
>developed until around 1105, then they may not be ready for deployment to
>the whole navy before the Rebellion breaks out. Remember, a jump-6 torpedo 
>would take up a minimum of more than 7 T and would require a jump-6 ship to 
>send it off.
 
   Why should the jump capacity of the launching ship factor into the
jump capacity of the missile?  So long as the launching vessel has an
astrogator and a computer on board capable of plotting a jump and
feeding the data to the missile, there's not even really a need for the
launching vessel even to have a jump drive.

>>On the other hand, they would have the same problems that all systems 
>>without a human in loop have--what if something unexpected happens?  
>
>You kiss a MCr30+ torpedo goodbye. Acceptable if losses are almost non-
>existent, otherwise not.

   To answer the question of the economic feasibility of commo jump
torps, we need the answer to the following question: How often do
problems arise as a ship prepares to exits jump space that require an
astrogator to make adjustments (to avoid becoming space debris upon
re-entering normal space)?  If this is fairly often or even sometimes,
what percentage of these occurances could be programmed into the jump
torp's brain (so that it could make the corrections on its own)?  I'm
not sure if these answers exist anywhere canonially speaking.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:11:41 PDT
From: "Charles Li" <chaslimd@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: T IV - speculation

>Thereafter, martial law is never lifted.  The central government starts
>a purge of suspected co-conspirators.  There are show trials.  The best
>and brightest of the nobility are killed or imprisoned, or choose to
>flee to the marches or beyond the Imperium.  Imperial spies haunt their
>every move, finding out who their contacts are and neutralizing all
>threats to the Imperium, foreign and domestic, real or imagined.

This is such a dark theme, and a totalitarian Imperium which was never 
the intent of the original Traveller.... the Imperium maybe an empire 
per se, but its pretty benevolent.

> IRIS

IRIS was an aberration, and I think GDW tried to debunk in its best 
possible way by using Strephon's commentary in Survival Margin when he 
remarked in his diary as to who the heck they were.  No "ubermenchen" in 
this reality.

>becomes a haven for authoritarian paranoid conspiracy theorists who
>devote their lives to protecting the office of the Emperor -- without
>regard to who holds it -- from their own fevered imaginations.  
>
I think there will be plenty of opportunities even if the assassination 
never occured, perhaps Dulinor gained the support of Admiral Hutara (his 
brother) and subverted the fleets in Illelish to start a 2nd Illelish 
Revolt in an attempt to "reform the Imperial governement."
   Or perhaps, no revolt will happen as the Wavefront approaches the 
Imperium and/or the "Bad Guys from the Core" hypothesis is revived.

Charles


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:09:12 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 11:25 PM 9/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>I haven't read the T2k stuff in a long time but the deal went like: US
>>gets into WWIII...it doesn't turn into a cakewalk but bogs down horribly.
>>The US mainland is nuked, the military declares martial law for the
>>duration. The war drags on, things are getting bad in the US. The 
>
>Military can't do that, and to think that they would step that far 
>beyond their authority is. . . questionable.  Look at what doing that 
>earned MacAurther.  Besides the contempt of most of the officer corps 
>at the time.

The state of martial law was declared by the Prez shortly before he started
a new career as widely dispersed plasma.  The military was the only part of
the government that was till feeding people by 1999.

>>So we're left with state governments, the military command structure and
>>some bureaucrats, and Congresscritters who happened to be out of town.
>>Quick! who's 34th in succession to the Presidency?
>
>The Congresscritter with the most seniority in the party with the 
>majority before the war.  End of discussion.  If not any Congressmen 
>left, than just about anyone who's been confirmed by Congress would 
>qualify before an officer.  After that it gets a little hazy.

But the JCS decided that the circumstances of the seating of Congress,
along with the election of the President, were unusual, and possibly
unconstitutional.  So they refused to relinquish authority.
>
>>Also, the invasion of the Southwest by Mexico is not as far fetched as one
>>might think...Most of New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California _were_
>>parts of Mexico that the US took by force of arms or force of economy. 
>
>Bullshit.  I'm willing to bet on the Texas National Guard (read:49th 
>Armored Division) against any army the Mexicans could ever throw out.  
>Not to mention an ARMORED CORPS that just happens to be sitting in Fort 
>Hood.

The Armored Corps was, in fact, sitting in Southern Iran.  The Mexican Army
was aided by the Soviet "Division Cuba" and a Red Dawn-esque collection of
Carribean All-stars.  They didn't get far, bogging down short of Dallas
(damn.)

Mexico's greater gains in the far west are easoier to explain after the
nuking of LA removed most of the reason to defend the area.. Oddly enough,
most of California's NG units are in the northern half of the state.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:04:34 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Fiction.

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> Hi all. Question: What about Traveller fiction?
> Would you buy Traveller novels, if:
>         They weren't by Dragonlance authors?

I LOVED the Dragonlance novels.  Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weise are
wonderful authors.  I'm waiting for Margaret to do her Traveller book.

I'm going to buy it.

>         They were better than the two GDW did?

Yes.  I bought the first one and couldn't finish it.  What a stinker!  I
felt like I was reading a high school creative writing paper.

> What themes would you like to see Traveller novels on?
> e.g.:   Pocket Empire type political/military stuff?

This would be OK if done right.

>         Adventurers doing adventurer things?

Of course. The staple.

>         Military (Hammer's Slammers) type stuff?

A Striker book?  I bet I'd love it.

>         Politics in the Moot?

Sure, I'm game.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 01:59:39 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Reactionaries!

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> Why does everyone seem to hate TNE? I thought it was a marvelous idea - so
> much so that I broke the habit of a decade and actually bought it! Could it
> be that some of us were afraid of something new?

When I first read the TNE background, I was turned off because of the
rules.  It wasn't Traveller.  It was something else, and if I wanted to
play a different sci-fi game other than Traveller, I had Battletech,
Star Wars, or plenty of others to choose from.

The biggest bugger for me was that they changed everything that I was
used to from CT and MT--the task system,the dice, the whole way the game
was played.  It just didn't feel like Traveller.

It is not that I am against change.  MT was a change from CT, but when I
first read it, my reaction was exactly the opposite.  I felt MT's
changes were very Traveller is feel and actually improved the game.

I didn't like the art in TNE.  It was too comic-booky.  I had grown to
love the realistic visions that I saw in CT and MT supplements.

When I actually got around to reading the rules in TNE, I was surprised
to see that I actually liked them.  If this game had a more Traveller
feel, I probably would have thought it was the best thing since sliced
bread.

I really liked the detail put into TNE.  They thought of everything.

Then, I played it--with a huge learning curve, I might add.  And, my
opinion changed again.  Although the combat and rules systems were very
detailed--the most detailed Traveller systems to date--it is so
complicated that it is almost unplayable.

You get the detail--but you also have to pay for having that much detail
in the game by all the dice throws.

Take two people firing automatic weapons at each other. 

In TNE, you roll for every round fired.

A guy has a guass rifle.  He sets it for 5 round bursts.

Oh boy, here we go.

First, you roll initiative.  Our boy gets to go.  In one fire action,
our boy can pull the trigger 5 times, letting loose 25 bullets.

That's 25 D20 throws!

And, we haven't added in modifiers yet for range, skill, and
recoil--which, of course will reduce some of those throws.

OK, then we count up how many hits we made. For each hit, we roll on the
hit location chart.  Then, we roll damage,and these points are applied
to the target's hit points.

THEN we check to see what, if any, effects these wounds have on the
target.

And, I haven't even talked yet about figuring penetration if the target
is wearing armor.  Figuring range is different for each weapon,so that's
a calculation that needs to be made everytime somebody fires.  Recoil
can be different WITH EACH PULL OF THE TRIGGER.

And, let's not even talk about if our guy gets two actions in a
round--because all of this is just one half of his turn.  He gets to
roll the whole 25 dice again, and go through all of these calculations
for his second action.

When you are all done with that, it's time for the next person in the
round to go.

Sheesh.  It takes you all night to do one fight--and there's a chance
you won't get through.

I think TNE was a good idea that was executed poorly.  I'm a very
detailed oriented GM, but there is something to be said for simplicity
and fast game play.

Since I've converted over to the T4 system, albeit it is much more
simple and not as realistic, me and my players are having more fun with
the game.

It's nice to fire an automatic weapon and just double the damage die
instead of going through all those steps above.  Sure, T4 doesn't even
account for recoil, but the gains you make in faster,and more fun, game
play is more than worth it.

And, who knows, I bet we find a rule sometime down the road that will
allow for recoil in T4.  It will be something simple, like a DM to the
attack throw, and that will be it.

Anyway, since you asked, that's what I had against TNE.  The setting
wasn't high on my list, but the bigger problem I had was the game's
playability.  

That, and the fact that the game just didn't feel like Traveller.  No
D6's.  They changed the trademark chargen for Heaven's sake!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:34:10 +2
From: "RFXn" <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: While we're at it...

On 12 Sep 97 at 17:24, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> I've been told that a crazy gunsmith in Canada made a .50 BMG
> *pistol*. Basicly a bolt action rifle action mounted on one hell of
> a pistol grip!

	Yes, that's true. I should have a picture of the pistol somewhere on 
my HD... Looked more like a rifle though. I couldn't imagine why 
anybody'd want to shoot one...

	BTW. That's not the worst. A german gunsmith has built a 4-shot 
revolver around the .600 Nitro Express big-game round. The gun 
weights about 4 kg, and nobody's had the guts to shoot it yet, it's 
only been fired from a test bench. Talk about low-tech solutions to 
killing armor! *grin*

/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
 -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
 -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
 -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:48:07 +2
From: "RFXn" <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: Commentary

On 12 Sep 97 at 21:57, John Atkinson wrote:

> REMF.  Anyone who doesn't get shot at.  In Desert Storm, since the
> enemy didn't have aircraft, the only people not in line batallions
> who got shot at were people on the wrong end of the
> something-like-four-SCUDs that actually might have hit something
> vital if they hadn't fallen apart in the upper atmosphere (with all
> due respect for the the Reservists who happened to be in the
> warehouse that was the only chunk of a SCUD that killed any
> Americans).

	Well, unless downtown Jerusalem is not considered anything vital...
According to Gulf War IRC logs from #peace, 121 SCUD missiles hit
Jerusalem and the surroundings. The problem with SCUDs wasn't the 
Patriot missiles but poor pre-strike intel, they couldn't hit a damn 
thing.

	(not trying to bash the US Military here, just reminding that CNN 
doesn't tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth...)


/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
 -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
 -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
 -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:56:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: pawn@CAM.ORG (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re:Historical events

>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Historical events

Hans,

Re: your Historical Events Generator: Cool idea. I like this. I'll probably
modify it a lot for my own use, but there are a lot of useful ideas here. I
like random generators that can help spark my creativity.

I may have some suggestions for additions; will post if I come up with anything.

Thanks!

Glenn

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <pawn@cam.org>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
"Nature abhors normality. It can't go too long without a mutant."
                        --Dr Blockhead

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1817
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 13 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1818



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:  The Annic Nova
Re: Some stray thoughts
M0 Campaign Dual Volume
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative  trivia
Re: Replys [sic]
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: Monetary Economics
Re: Monetary Economics
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: America 2300ad
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex
Bad guys from the Core?
Re: Commentary
Re: getting stuff done

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:03:37 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re:  The Annic Nova

Phillip McGregor wrote

[snip]

> >>>>So, you still believe in Solar Powered multiple JDrives (Annic Nova)
> >>>
> >>>Advanced super-science by an unknown race. Yep. That I'll accept. There is
> >>>another example of such a ship in _Secret of the Ancients_ (well, it carried
> >>>around a lifetime supply of fuel in a pocket universe. Perhaps the Annic
> >>>Nova does the same.)
> >>
> >>Unfortunately Annic Nova was simply from the Julian Protectorate.
> >
> >>From what canonical publication did you get that interesting bit of
> >information? As far as I know the origin of Annic Nova is and have always
> >been a mystery.
> 
> Its evidently from one of the last Digest Group Digests ... or from one of them,
> anyway. I've seen the photocopied page in a friend's collection, but he only has
> the page, not the reference of where it came from. However, evidently (and I'm
> taking this from him again, he has a *far* bigger collection of obscure
> Traveller stuff than I) the *alphabet* is a dead giveaway ... it also was
> featured somewhere fairly obscure in the DGP MTrav era, and it's evidently an
> obvious match.
> 
> >>The possibilities were (presumably) too unsettling of what the designers
> >>*later* decided they wanted, so they conveniently ignored it thereafter.
> >>But Annic Nova was an official GDW publication in the 3 little black book
> >>days!

I seem to recall seeing the language on the Annic Nova somewhere else as
well.  This does not prove that the builders of the ship built the ships
special solar powered jump drive.  It is entirely possible that the
human minor race which may (or may not) have built the ship used 2 spare
TL 25 jump drives the ancients had conveniently (for plot purposes) left
behind 300,00 years ago.  The language used on the ship may be only the
language of the builders of the ship, not of the builders of the
_drive_.  Note that nowhere in Annic Nova is the ships _hull_ being
described as being made of any special material, if the hull was TL 25
it would be made of special material.  We know that some minor races
copied Ancient jump drives and we know that some Ancient artifacts still
work fine.  I could easily believe that an Ancient jump drive might work
fine.  Living metal that is self regenerating due to nano technology
(insert your vision of TL 25 technology here - this is just an example)
might last just fine for 300,000 years without preventative maintenance
and be as good as new. Someone found them and built a ship around them
- -and then died of plague but I probably should not mention plague right
now :)

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:17:56 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Some stray thoughts

Michael D. Peters

> Any time a prequel is written, and that is what T4 is, it's almost
> impossible NOT to change something. Actions that have been written can
> be accounted for in the prequel and should be, but the previously
> written "history" can't take into account what the prequel will write,
> that would mean the the authors of the previously written material could
> really see into the future. Unfortunately, some glitches in continuity
> will have to be accepted or IG and anyone else will just have to give up
> the idea of writing adventures for M:0 for fear of causing a break
> somewhere down the "historical" line.
> 
> To "prove" my point... There has been much debate about the virus
> episode in Gateway, (I've just purchased it and am not familiar with the
> details so I won't comment on that), and how it breaks with the Vilani
> susceptibility to decease during the RoM. However no one has yet made
> mention of the biggest Conon-breaker of all in TLH and Gateway! Why, if
> there is a "fast transit" gate way between an area near Core and
> Gushemege, even if an unstable one, wouldn't this have an affect at
> least in CT and MT? Now I don't want to hear about it was an Imperial
> Secret or some such! It wasn't "invented" yet is the answer, and if it
> had been it would have had an affect in the "later" history of the 3I,
> even if only as a foot note. 

How do you know that when the crew returned home they were not
debreiefed and told not to tell anyone.  Suppose none of them told
anyone - or that if they did they were not believed.  The Imperium then
sent out a (top secret) ship to try & use the transit gate.  The gate
promptly blew up, destroying itself & the ship.  When the ship never
came back some dull bureaucrat/spook wrote a report on the subject. 
This report was then filed away in a room similar to the one the US
Governments "top men" put The Ark of the Covenant in at the end of
Indiana Jones.  No a working gate could not have been kept secret, but a
gate that has been broken for a thousand years and whose only reported
history is on secret documents no one has bothered to look at in the
past millenia would keep itself secret.  Even if found the file might
not be believed.  If believed the only response might be "A pity it
broke."

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:04:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: FKiesche@aol.com
Subject: M0 Campaign Dual Volume

So the M0 hardback is available in at least one FNGS. What happened to IG's
promise of "if you order this in advance, you'll receive it three days before
the retailers get it" policy?

Still no Citizens of the Imperium in sight, even though I was charged in
mid-July. Sigh. Some things will never change. Maybe they're changing
management teams again or something.

Fred Kiesche
(FKiesche@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:07:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative  trivia

In mail you write:

>> They are listed in the "dangerous persons" directory
>
> What a great chance to boast:-)
>
> Boaster 1: Hey, don't mess with me, my hands are registered with the police
>            as deadly weapons.
>            
> Boaster 2: So?  My entire body is registered across the Imperium, along 
>            with my trusty PGMP.           

Hey, M:0 is before the Psionic Suppressions...

Boaster 3(telepathically): <My *mind* is registered as a deadly weapon.
                            Now quit arguing!>
:-)
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:20:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Replys [sic]

In mail you write:

>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>> > On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Glenn M. Goffin, Esq. wrote:
>> >
>> >> Loren, inasmuch as your chances of winning are essentially the same
>> >> whether you buy a ticket or not, you might as well just accept that
>> >> frustration and grow from it.  --Glenn
>  
>> Hey, 0 goes into 1/1,000,000,000 an infinite number of times! I'd call
>> infinite "considerably greater". :-)
>
> I guess it's true, then, that the lottery is a tax on people who aren't
> good at math.

It can be. But it's also an amusement for those of use willing to throw
away a little money to see if the long odds come up. After all, it is
*very* probable that *someone* will win. But the set of possible
winners is restricted to those who buy tickets. So we toss in some
spare change (when I can afford it). If I win, great. If I don't, I
still had a moment's amusement.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:27:26 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

In mail you write:

> I however, still am pissed off about the interview they had with a guy from
> NASA on TV.  They asked the guy from NASA about the planned US manned space
> station, and he said that they were working on it.  Then, the interviewer
> said that Mir was up and had been up for awhile and he replied, "But Mir is
> nothing more than a tin-can in space!"
>
> And this was a guy that NASA employed.

Never forget that the US *had* a space station. Skylab. And between
NASA and Congress, we piddled things away on the Shuttle program until
it was too late to reboost it. If the Shuttle funding hadn't had games
played with it, or if NASA had been willing to propose a "just in case"
backup program that could've re-boosted Skylab if the Shuttle program
wound up behind schedule (as it did) then we'd still have a Space
Station. 

And while the backup might have been a bit hard to sell, they could
have had a secondary purpose for it. ("If, as we expect, the Shuttle is
on schedule, then we can use this to do X")

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:59:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

In mail you write:

> 21   Fusion Bottle or Plasma Conduit breached, room bathed in hot plasma,
> ship explodes on 11+ on 2D.
> For rolls over 21 increase chance of ship exploding by the number the roll
> exceeds 21.  So a 22 explodes on 10+, a 13 explodes on a 9+, etc.

Sorry, but even in a fusion reactor the plasma is pretty thin. The hot
plasma is low density, so *it* will cool off without seriously heating
the surroundings. That's one of the reasons you need to use magnetic
fields, to keep the plasma from cooling off by contacting the walls of
the reactor.

And the ship *won't* explode if you breach the fusion bottle. 

> Note; Using this system will make firing a PGMP in Engineering quite
> dangerous!  Battle Dress will not save you from high pressure superheated
> plasma, and probably will not help in an explosive decompression.

Again, the pressure of fusion plasma is low, because it's easier to
raise the temp than the pressure.

A Plasma weapon is producing (relatively) high density plasma, at lower
temperatures (say a hundred thousand degrees instead of a hundred
*million*). 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:05:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

In mail you write:

> For this to work, the entity doing the credit management needs to have the
> highest technology available, which I assume the Imperium has for a very
> long time.  The techniques are likely known to those who want to find them
> out, because someone would have defected.  Thus, you need a scheme that is
> robust, even knowing the algorithm and some of the keys.

Old rule of cryptology. No code/cipher is secure unless it can provide
protection against someone who knows the algorithm, but not the key.
This is because it is *inevitable* that the algorithm will either leak,
or worse, be guessed. 

If a key is known, that key is blown. But again, knowledge of one key
should not compromise others. If it does, the code system is a piece of
junk.

Theoretically, one time pads will *always* be secure. The only trouble
is key distribution (well, key generation is tedious, but that's
relatively minor).

Public key ciphers are subject to mathematical advances. Not
*computational*, because if you have faster computers, then you can use
bigger keys. But if someone comes up with a new mathematical technique
that greatly decreases the work required to carry the mathematical
operation that "secures" the cipher, then you are toast. For example, a
whole bunch of public key schemes went down the tubes a few years back
when somebody came up with a better solution to what's known as the
"knapsack problem". The remaining schemes are based on the difficulty
of factoring large numbers. So if a breakthrough is made in algorithms
for factoring large numbers, they go away.

But for game purposes, we can assume that factoring is inherently hard
(or that some new trick is found). So public key ciphers would be
usable, though the keys may be a small book's worth of digits (stored
in a tiny bit of storage). 

Given the fact of there being higher tech cultures, one time pads will
be used for military and diplomatic stuff as well as anything that you
are afraid might be trouble if someone with higher tech shows up.

But for generic business purposes, you just use the highest TL
available for the public key ciphering gear. That way, it's unlikely
that anybody can crack things soon. Sure, if a TL 16 race is found,
they can crack your ciphers in weeks instead of years, but they aren't
likely to *bother* with most commercial stuff.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:35:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Likewise, interest on a loan is the price you are paying to use someone
>> else's money.
>
> I have no problem with interest per se, I understand it as a "service
> fee" for use of money, I have a problem with the current implementation
> of interest.
>
> If I were to lend $100 and if interest were a fee, I would say "I'm
> giving you $100, and I'd like you to pay me $5 a month until you pay it
> back." You would know that if you paid me back in one year, you would
> have given me $160 in total.

So what do you do if he pays you $50 some month? Let's make it $55.
That's the $5 fee *plus* half of the money he owes you. So he can quite
reasonably ask you to reduce the fee to $2.5 per month. 

Thus the fee is based on him paying you 5% of what he owes you each
month. 

> As it works now, another "service fee" in the form of compound interest
> is tacked on the $5. I'm "lending" you another $5 (that I may or may not
> have) so that you may pay me, with yet another service fee for a service
> I did not provide. Can some economist explain to me why (if?) it *has*
> to be that way? 

Start by considering the fact that people have to *deposit* money in
order for the bank to have something to loan. And you want them to do
so for long periods. So you pay them a fixed amount per time period,
based on how much money they have deposited. 

That's no different than you getting paid X dollars for performing a
service for a specific period. 

Likewise, the guy the money is loaned to pays so much per amount of
money per time period. 

Given this, as soon as you deal with more than one period, you have
"compound" interest.

For the depositor, at the end of the first period, you deposit his
payment for letting you use the money to his account. So there's now
more money in there, so he'll get more interest the next period.

For the borrower, he is paying so much per dollar per period. So if he
doesn't pay by the end of the period, he owes the fee *and* the money.

Now getting back to your example, what if you *have* to get the $100
you loaned him back by a certain date. And he wants the payments to be
equal. Say you want it back in a year. So like you said, he has to pay
you $160. But he wants to do it in equal monthly payments. So that's
$13.33 per month. Which is a $8.33 payment on the principle, and $5
fee.  

But the fee no longer matches what he owes you. The first month is 5%
of the principle. The second month, he only had $91.67, but still paid
$5. That's 5.45%. The last month, he only owed $8.34, but paid $5
interest. That's 60% interest!

By the time you've done this a lot, and had to deal with things like
early and late payments, you wind up with compound interest. 

And compound interest is simply being charged a fee that's a fixed
percentage of what you owe. If you pay *more* than the fee each month,
you reduce the amount you owe by the difference between what you paid
and the fee for that month. So it's possible (though difficult) to
calculate what size payment you need to make to pay off the loan in a
given number of months.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:13:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

In mail you write:

>> it does mean, for example, that a TL-20 internal combustion
>> engine has approximately the same characteristics as a TL-8 internal
>> combustion engine. You can reach a limit of improvement for any specific
>> device independent of tech increases.
>
> I think I disagree with this.  Just think of the compression ratios you 
> could achieve with bonded superdense engine blocks :-)

Anything past what it takes to cause compression ignition (like in a
diesel) is wasted isn't it?

> One of the things that bugged me about MT and FFS design sequences is
> that there is no TL advances for fission and internal combustion at
> higher TL.  One of the "feelings" I get from many of my favorite
> SciFi books is that there should be such a progession.  While fusion,
> or fusion+, may be the technology of choice at TL 13, I still believe
> that small fission-driven chainsaws or alcohol fuel-cell powered
> snow-mobiles have the right feel for so many settings.

Fission has the inherent problem that reactors have to run rather close
to the edge, and this is even truer for smaller reactors. Critical mass
is a fixed quantity, and while you can cheat a little with a bomb
(imploding it to ridiculous densities), that can't be done with a
reactor. 

Fuel cells aren't internal combustion engines. There are some very
weird fuel cells that could be sold for low-tech power generation. Like
the one that consists of one or more ceramic tubes, and generates power
by passing oxygen thru the ceramic. So you spray fuel (liquid, gas, or
even powdered) thru the tubes and ignite it. Once it reaches a dull red
heat, you cut back on the air/fuel ratio and generate power from the
oxygen migrating into the tubes to burn with the fuel. It's even
possible to make things like this that can generate power from a
campfire. Not *much* power, but enough for a few things.

BTW, I still think there's a place for some fission powered ships (like
the Rolling Stone in Heinlein's "The Rolling Stones") that have had a
jump drive added later. The exhaust is *not* all that radioactive. So
it's safe enough to land and take off from a normal downport, though
it'd be much cheaper to use the highport. 

Sure, they'll be less profitable than fusion powered ships. But the
m-drive needs *very* little maintenance. You just replace the fuel
pellets every 10 years or so, and keep the fuel pumps working and check
the condition of the fuel passages in the reactor and the jet during
annual maintenance. The j-drive takes the normal amount of maintenance.

The ship would probably not boost all the way to the jump point. Just
make a burn to get on course to it, coast for some hours, then jump.
As long as you like free fall, you could likely make a living.

As I've mentioned before, if I had the time and the required reference
material, I'd do up an article giving stats for various "obsolete"
vessels that folks had upgraded with bits of newer (but still obsolete)
tech. Things like an old Space Shuttle fitted with a small fusion unit,
and being used to haul stuff around in-system. And other "junkyard
salvage" goodies that might be recognizable.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:18:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

You wrote: 

>> One of the things that bugged me about MT and FFS design sequences 
is that there 
>> is no TL advances for fission and internal combustion at higher TL.  
One of the 
>> "feelings" I get from many of my favorite SciFi books is that there 
should be 
>> such a progession.  While fusion, or fusion+, may be the technology 
of choice at 
>> TL 13, I still believe that small fission-driven chainsaws or 
alcohol fuel-cell 
>> powered snow-mobiles have the right feel for so many settings.

No.  All it takes is one or two accidents with a fission-driven device 
to convince a culture which has other options available that fission is 
a BAD IDEA[tm].  Hell, look at the impact Chernobyle caused, and we 
_don't_ yet have an alternative that's not eviromentally unpleasant and 
partially dependant on nations run by unstable lunatics for the fuel.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:33:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

You wrote: 

>>Bullshit.  I'm willing to bet on the Texas National Guard (read:49th 
>>Armored Division) against any army the Mexicans could ever throw out.
>>Not to mention an ARMORED CORPS that just happens to be sitting in 
Fort 
>>Hood.
>
>The Armored Corps was, in fact, sitting in Southern Iran.  The Mexican Army
>was aided by the Soviet "Division Cuba" and a Red Dawn-esque collection of
>Carribean All-stars.  They didn't get far, bogging down short of Dallas
>(damn.)

Just so long as they are stuck with Houston, and didn't take Irving, I don't care.  :)

>Mexico's greater gains in the far west are easoier to explain after the
>nuking of LA removed most of the reason to defend the area.. Oddly enough,
>most of California's NG units are in the northern half of the state.

Would _you_ trust Angelenos with tanks and artillery?  

Besides, LA's gangs probably outgun the Mexican Army. . . 

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:31:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

You wrote: 

>The thing is that the so-called Congress has very little legitimacy.. some
>Congress-critters neverhaving seen the districts they claim to represent,
>gunfights between rival claiments, and a very suspect Presidential sucession.
>
>MilGov questioned the authority of the new government, and was promptly
>denounced as traitors.. that set everything off.

Shades of the Soviet almost-coup.  Geez, even Cromwell managed a coup 
competently.  If I were planning to revolt, the first thing Congress 
would hear would be when the 82nd Airborne shows up at a session with 
fixed bayonets.  Short civil war.

>>That I can see.  Although they seem to be a little disorganized and 
>>anarchistic to create a national movement.
>
>In the T2K backround, there was one industrialist leader who did put
>everything together.  Pure dramatic license, but I still remember how I
>felt when we finally got home from Poland to discover what was happening in
>the land of the Big PX...

That would be a little annoying.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:29:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Visigoths, Vandals, and Cassandra Complex

You wrote: 

>>>>   Continuing the analogy...
>>
>>Beating it into the ground.
>
>   With a hammer.  :-)
>
>
>>>>>   Thereby creating a new empire (Byzantium) that was Greek, not 
>>>>>Latin.
>>>>
>>>>Yet who's armies continued to march under banners bearing 'SPQR'.  
>>>
>>>   And how many of the soldiers who marched under it knew what it 
>>>meant?
>>
>>That would require literacy, would it not?  And considering (the 
>>competent) half of the army was barbarian mercenaries. . . 
>
>   True, a motley collection from Scandanavia and Lord knows where
>else.  All the more reason to treat Byzantium as a seperate empire, 
with
>roots perhaps in the old one.

Nah, it wasn't that different.  I mean, not since the 2nd century AD 
had ethnic Latins predominated the military.

>>>>Just don't buy any red footware unless you are really, really, 
really 
>>>>sure of yourself.
>>>
>>>   Or are prepared to be blinded, exiled, poisoned, stabbed, drown,
>>>strangled or overrun by Crusaders or Turks in the process.
>>
>>Damn Crusaders.
>
>   Hey, why should you expect the Doge of Venice to pay to have horses
>made for one of his buildings when he can steal them from the
>Hippodrome?  :-)

Hmph!  Third-rate barbarian!  Didja see TLC's series on Byzantine art?  
The Byzantines made something for him that's absolutely trippy.  Showed 
the Court of Heaven, and they put the Doge in there (for a small 
price).  But when the sent it to Venice, even the Venetians realized he 
was being denigrated when the Doge didn't have a halo, so they cut out 
the head and replaced it with one with a halo.  But they missed the 
color of the footgear.

>>PS:This is good.  A pro-Byzantine thread on my favorite newsgroup, 
and 
>>now one on a mailing list. . .
>
>   Beats the hell out of "why TNE sucks and GURPS is a good thing" 
talk.

That's not so bad, compared to the 'Plague of Duskir' thread which not 
only has lost me completely, but now has messages of disgusting length 
which I delete to save the ten minutes downloading.

>P.S. You people need to be told how you can relate this discussion to
>Traveller?!

Adventure ideas, obviously.  For instance, save the Sylea from being 
pillaged by the Vargr mercenaries the Emperor hired to fight the Aslan 
who have a fleet in orbit. . . 

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:38:04 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Bad guys from the Core?

	This may be more than a little silly, but hey; what with the tone
the list is taking these days, some comic relief is needed...


Charles Li wrote with regard to the GT background:

[snip]

>I think there will be plenty of opportunities even if the assassination
>never occured, perhaps Dulinor gained the support of Admiral Hutara (his
>brother) and subverted the fleets in Illelish to start a 2nd Illelish
>Revolt in an attempt to "reform the Imperial governement."
>   Or perhaps, no revolt will happen as the Wavefront approaches the
>Imperium and/or the "Bad Guys from the Core" hypothesis is revived.


	This reminded me of something I recently wrote to Jason and Ross
concerning the MegaTraveller campaign Ross is working up:

Ross:
>>>
>>> I'm thinking that Scouts, Engineers etc would be ideal here.  Some
>>> possibility for violent types as well as minimally spacy sorts, but that
>>> last will be a minority.
>>

Jason:
>>	Well I might be interested in playing a scout. I also had an idea
>>for a rogue type juvenile ( sporting a around one of those Spofulam
>>gravboards :) ). But I'm  still somewhat attached to the Aslan
>>character.
>
>

Me:
>	One of the changes between IY-50 and IY-1116 is that Famille
>Spofulam aren't around anymore, having defected to the Solomani Sphere
>lock, stock, and barrel of really big guns because the Imperium was
>getting a little bit too staid, calm, and civilized for them.  The
>Solomani were much more Spofulam's speed.  Aggressive, militaristic,
>jingoistic, right wing if not downright quasi-fascistic, and into pushing
>technology to demented extremes as an aesthetic statement.
>
>	However, the Solomani took one look at the Spofulams and decided
>that they were a massive menace to Solomani species purity, morality, and
>society, not to mention civilization as a whole, so the Spofulams built a
>fleet of huge asteroid-hulled colony ships, moved the family, the
>corporate assets and their shipyard and industrial tooling on board, and
>headed for the Galactic core...
>
>	...thereby laying the groundwork for a new Trav Supplement: Milieu
>S: The Spofulam Era (subtitled "They're baaaack!").

	And I note that Spofulam and Sparklers both have the same first two
letters.  Does anyone smell the Templars?

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:36:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Commentary

You wrote: 

>	Well, unless downtown Jerusalem is not considered anything 
vital...

In terms of US troops stationed there, not really.

>According to Gulf War IRC logs from #peace, 121 SCUD missiles hit
>Jerusalem and the surroundings. The problem with SCUDs wasn't the 
>Patriot missiles but poor pre-strike intel, they couldn't hit a damn 
>thing.

And accuracy.  When the Iraqis were aiming at *Saudi Arabia* they  
_missed_the_nation_ 15% of the time.

SCUDs were absolutely worthless as a military weapon.  Their only value 
was pyschological.  The Patriots provided a psychological protection, 
and thus achieved 100% success.  After all, Israel didn't nuke western 
Iraq flat, so they can be said to have fulfilled their mission.

John M. Atkinson  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:52:43 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

At 12:27 AM 9/13/97 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:

>Never forget that the US *had* a space station. Skylab. And between
>NASA and Congress, we piddled things away on the Shuttle program until
>it was too late to reboost it. If the Shuttle funding hadn't had games
>played with it, or if NASA had been willing to propose a "just in case"
>backup program that could've re-boosted Skylab if the Shuttle program
>wound up behind schedule (as it did) then we'd still have a Space
>Station. 

>And while the backup might have been a bit hard to sell, they could
>have had a secondary purpose for it. ("If, as we expect, the Shuttle is
>on schedule, then we can use this to do X")

NASA did have the capacity to reboost Skylab (there was at least one gantry,
one Saturn V and a couple of Saturn I's left over from the Apollo program).
Besides Skylab was never a "permanently manned" space station. This is not
to belittle the achievements of Skylab (the first space station is a fairly
major milestone) but if it were still up there, it would probably be in
even worse shape the Mir. Remember Mir has been up there, manned for some
considerable number of years now (at least 10 I think), the first permanently
manned space station is also a fairly major milestone.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1818
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 13 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1819



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Monetary Economics (OT)
Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: Jump torpedoes
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: Re: Some stray thoughts
Re: America 2300ad
Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Traveller Solution Series: Introduction
Re: Commentary
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Reactionaries!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:03:25 -0500
From: ghost029@juno.com
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

Having served on submarines in engineering, you are close to accurate.
Unfortunetly watertight bulkheads or in our  case airtight bulkheads are
not everywhere. They only exist to minimise damage. A military vessel
will tend to have more of these bulkheads versus a commercial vessel,
cost versus function. In my experience all piping and cables are not
hidden behind bulkheads except in the recreation/food service area and
for the civilian vessels where you have paying passengers. My bunk on the
sub had 3 cable runs and two pipe lines across the top of it.  As to
shooting inside, don't, the collateral damage makes me shudder just to
think about. In my training on repelling boarders, we were taught to go
to the tool boxes, get the biggest wrench you can find (a 2" wrench will
hurt  you when I hammer you with it) and apply it to anybody that doesn't
belong back aft.
Thomas Harkless
ex MM1/SS
searching for Bradish and Harkless

>
>You're analogy is a good one, but use a submarine instead of an
>airplane. Why? Because subs, like starships, have internal bulkheads
>that are very solid. In MT rules, you need 250 points of damage to
>one to create a man-size hole (a breach). A handgun will do squat to
>one of those.
>
>Now, I assume that pipes, cabling and other equipment would be found
>either inside the bulkhead (if the components are small enough) or
>generally away from the living areas (for aesthetic reasons). The risk
>of firing a handgun in one of the living areas and causing serious
>damage is minimal. Letting loose in Engineering, though, is another
>matter.
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:26:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Monetary Economics (OT)

In a message dated 97-09-13 05:16:20 EDT, you write:

<< 
 So if you want him to loan the money to _you_ rather than investing it
 elsewhere you have to pay him the compound intrest he will get
 elsewhere.  Think of it this way, when he loans you the money he is not
 just loosing the money he is loosing the opportunity to reinvest what he
 would be earning elsewhere and therefore compounding his money for him.
 
  >>

Look at it the other way around. Say you have money in the bank and the
banker pays YOU interest. One way he could do it is to pay you once a year...
Dec 31. in one lump. The way they do it is credit interest every week or day
or whenever, and then they pay interest on the interest. Wouldn't you feel
ripped off if they credited interest to your account and then didn't pay
interest on that portion?

The REAL reason the banker handles loans as you describe is because theyare
on time payments. He faces too much risk if you borrow $30,000 for that new
Lexus for four years with terms that say you'll pay it all at the end of four
years. The risk is that you won't pay and he'll have lost track of you
between now and then.

IF they did do loans with a due date four years from now, the final interest
payment also due would reflect the total interest they expected to get for
the life of the loan, just as if it were being compouded.

The places where loan companies and institutions misserve the public is in
not making full disclosure... quoting simple interest, or the annual rate,
but not the total percentage.

But that's like the airline ads that quote Europe flights for $279*

*one way with round trip purchase, does not include $50 facilities fee, local
taxes, and etc.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:19:01 -0500
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

On Thursday, September 11, 1997 07:12, John Atkinson wrote:
> >I think that good ol' Hortalez et Cie, on behalf of the Imperial
> >government, will be collecting a MCr10 deposit from them. Heh heh.
>
> Let's be realistic.  If a _real_ starting commandoe unit couldn't come
> up with it. . . Otherwise it's jerking with the players just to be

Cost of doing business.  A REAL combat unit should be able to come up with 
a measly MCr10: their gear alone should cost more.  Although you might 
want to scale it as a yearly fee based on TO&E.  There are massive fees in 
many industries today to prevent just this sort of abuse: people 
mascarading as an entity doing business just to gain some of the perks, 
foex, being able to buy otherwise unobtainable weapons, which is what his 
players are doing.  I got the strong impression that this was just a ruse 
for them, and they walked into it blindly.  As a GM, I have no compunction 
about discouraging this direction in my game in this way if it's not where 
I want to go...  If they wanted to be a serious merc company, I might feel 
differently about it, but investor backing would probably still be 
required.

The BATF has doing just this sort of discouragement here in the states: 
raising the cost of being an FFL dealer to put the "basement" dealers 
(private citizens who just want wholesale cost and/or the ability to buy 
"devices of destruction").  I totally disagree with BATF, but it's one way 
of regulating certain behaviors out of existence.

Some industries are just more difficult to enter than others: we all can't 
build oil refineries in our backyards, or develop O/Ses to compete with 
M$.  Another example is radio stations, which anyone could probably do, 
but the FCC requires massive licensing fees for band choice, etc.

Then there is the social concern about folks running around with heavy 
weapons...  Which I've never understood.  "An armed society is a polite 
society."  If we all had tomahawk missiles, who'd want to be first to 
launch?  (Ooops, I think I may have just started another MAD-war thread.)

> >	To don combat armor:
> >	Simple, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Dexterity, 2 min (fateful).
> >	Referee: An automatic mishap occurs when this roll fails.
> >	Increase the difficulty one level if no skill present or if
> >  	proper maintenance not done.
>
> Ummm. . . to put it on?  Maybe that's a little excessive.  Unless they
> are really rushed (In an effort to finish dressing and rush out to save
> your friends, you forget to fasten the buttflap strap. . . )

I dunno, American football gear is bad enough, imagine 200+ kilos of 
battle armor, and how much it could hurt to get Mr. Winkie caught in your 
servo-powered, armored zipper while trying to "zip up".  I was thinking 
that two-minute base was a bit forgiving...  What about the 
"conveniences"?  Vac suits fall into this category.  Having never had to 
catheterize myself in any fashion (the hospital was always nice enough to 
wait until I was under general anesthetic to do so for me), I can imagine 
that this might take a while; and probably make the suit a lot more 
uncomfortable to wear if ignored and not done prior to donning it...

> >Maintenance could be done according to the following task:
> >
> >	To perform routine maintenance on combat armor:
> >	Difficult, Vacc Suit or Battle Dress, Education, 10 min (safe).
>
> Daily, require simple 10 minutes.  Once a week, require a difficult.
> After a fight in which the suit gets shot at (not penetrated), require
> difficult.  If someone blows a hole in it, then it requires specialized
> tools which I doubt they have.

Ten minutes isn't even enough time to hose it out with 409!  I spend more 
than that cleaning my favorite .45 after use...  I must agree that the 
difficulty is a bit high for routine maintenance, though.

Related question: does battle dress "the skill" operate at an eqivalent 
vac suit level, or less?  Vac used to operate as a low grade b/d skill, 
have to look that up in T4.
______________________________________________________________________

David Reed           | All wickedness is weakness: that plea therefore
                     | With God or Man will gain thee no remission.
david@techrefuge.com |                -John Milton, "Samson Agonistes"
______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:38:36 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Jump torpedoes

> I wasn't aware that there was a difference.  Where does this appear
> in Traveller publications?

Have a look at the first Traveller News Service message (originally in JTAS, it 
is currently on the Imperium Games web site.  I think it was included in the 
TNS section of the Fifth Frontier War game).:


Regina/Regina (0310-A788899-A) Date: 097-1105

L-Hyd drop ships have only been in service for the last dozen years in the 
interior, being made possible by recent advances in the field of
capacitor engineering, a joint press release explained. Commercial vessels 
equipped with the new generation of long-storage jump capacitors carry jump 
fuel


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:38:34 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

One of the areas of current reasearch I am familiar with is fuel cells.  The 
current tests on methanol-fueled buses in the US (Chicago?  Detroit?) are 
broadly in line with TL 7 fuel cells.  But the big high temperature oxide 
reasearch expects to achieve 1 MW/m3 energy densities by 2005 in large (100 
to 1000 MW) power plants, which is TL 12 according to FFS 2 --- I actually 
consider this to be a "reasonable" fit between FFS and real life.

Given that the authors of FFS have got the bits of technology I am familar 
with "about right" (and I ought to know more than them in these few narrow 
fields), it seems reasonable to assume that they have other areas, like 
fission and internal combustion, "about right".  However ...


> Fission has the inherent problem that reactors have to run rather close
> to the edge, and this is even truer for smaller reactors. Critical mass
> is a fixed quantity

I always assumed that TL 12 damper technology would let you build smaller 
fission power plants (see FFS 2 page 58) in the same way that it allows 
smaller fussion power plants.  My mental picture of the Unified Handwaving 
Theory sees no problem with TL 12+ fission power densities and minimum sizes 
to rival Fusion+.

For internal combustion, I recall various reports on (for example) the Wankel 
rotary engine where the designers bemoaned the lack of a suitable material 
for the rotor tips that would allow them to make better use of the design.  
Similarly a friend who is a superbike fan was telling me about the materials 
problems that limit the power/weight ratios that could be achieved.  I'm not 
an expert in these fields, but I feel that improved materials and better fuel 
additives will allow internal combustion to (slowly) improve in fuel 
efficiecy, and reduce in weight and volume.


However, overall, I still like the idea of fission chainsaws (I had not 
intended that as a combat weapon, but as a brilliant trade item to sell to 
lumberjacks on a low tech world ... "this baby runs for a whole season 
without refuelling; the moving parts are easily repaired by local 
tradespeople and the power unit has a 100% money-back guarantee for two 
years."


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 17:09 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789

In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970908111908.32077c4c@mail.hooked.net>

Douglas,

> >A.  the solomani , this is the group that conquered the 1st Imp. and yet
> >they are treated as minor players in almost all printed CT, T4 expansions
> >. I for one would like to see more on the solomani and more information
> >on adventuring in the solomani rim or the border of the solomani rim . I
> >think a book detailing the solomani and there lifestyle would be very
> >interesting .
>  
> Alien Module 6, CT
> Solomani and Aslan, MT
> Traveller Chronicle 10&11 "Children of Earth" TNE.

Travellers' Digest #13
CT Adventures 8-12(?)
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 17:09 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1789

In-Reply-To: <19970908.014722.2271.1.lugh1@juno.com>

> Basically 2300 irked me because I had a hard time thinking the united
> states would ever fall behind canada france and africa in industry ,
> military , or space tech. even with WW3, also why is the american arm so

Anyone living 100 years ago would have a hard time believing that the USA 
would ever come close to, let alone pass, the British Empire, even with WW1 
& WW2.

> limited while everything cool is on then french arm . do any of you

Because France is the major superpower and the US isn't.

> people really think this would happen ? . seems to me that the author was

It's possible.

> going out of his way to break conventional thinking on the future .

Good (although God knows why he picked the *French*...:-)
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 17:09 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

In-Reply-To: <v03110703b0394d3fe50c@[198.120.32.21]>

David,

> > The 100 Diameter Sphere. Jump uses a straight line in calculating
> >course=
> >s.
> >If that straight line intersects a 100 diameter sphere around an object, =
> >the
> >ship is "precipitated out" of jump space. It is an astrogator=92s job to =
> >plot a
> >course which avoids these pitfalls (Notice that this prevents a ship from
> >emerging from jump within another object).
>  
> There will be two main effects.  One is that you need to get to
> 100 diams to jump.  The second is when the stars of the origin
> or destination systems are in the way (The odds of invervening
> systems blocking are miniscule).

I'm not sure I agree with this. It's always been implied that jumps go 
'around' any obstacles (stars, planets, Zhodani battleships, etc), ie that 
objects in realspace don't intrude into jumpspace. There are no misjump 
modifiers for the number of systems you pass along the way. The exceptions to 
this are exit from and entry to jumpspace - you can't leave or (safely) enter 
j-space within 100d.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:19:49 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Some stray thoughts

Peter Newman wrote:

>
>
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 02:17:56 -0800
> From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
> Subject: Re: Some stray thoughts
>
> <snipped>
>
> How do you know that when the crew returned home they were not
> debreiefed and told not to tell anyone.  Suppose none of them told
> anyone - or that if they did they were not believed.  The Imperium then
> sent out a (top secret) ship to try & use the transit gate.  The gate
> promptly blew up, destroying itself & the ship.  When the ship never
> came back some dull bureaucrat/spook wrote a report on the subject.
> This report was then filed away in a room similar to the one the US
> Governments "top men" put The Ark of the Covenant in at the end of
> Indiana Jones.  No a working gate could not have been kept secret, but a
> gate that has been broken for a thousand years and whose only reported
> history is on secret documents no one has bothered to look at in the
> past millenia would keep itself secret.  Even if found the file might
> not be believed.  If believed the only response might be "A pity it
> broke."
>
> - --
>  pnewman@alaska.net     Peter Newman
> - --------------------------------------------------------------
> "I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
> you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
> would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
> Loyalties"
>
>

Peter,

I don't say it couldn't have been covered up. My point is that it altered later continuity. No mater whether anyone in the
later Imperium knew of the voyage, and I have doubts that it could or would have been filed away so completely. It changes
the facts about jump space. Taken from this adventure are several facts never before stated...
1) Jump gates (especially j-gates located ON PLANETARY SURFACES) are possible! Admittedly using ancient technology, but
they are possible, indicating that the 100 diameter rule is not an indisputable physical law! Now I would think that even
if the Gateway in the adventure was destroyed this would lead to some research in the 3I's known facts about jump space,
that would show as some impact a thousand years later.
2) Jump "ghosts", I admit my collection is far from complete, but this seems like some interesting information, that
creatures of some type "live" in Jump space.
3) If this particular set of gates were destroyed, and the adventure doesn't state that one way or the other, are there
more out there.

My point was that change to the CT, MT, and TNE "Canon" is inevitable when writing in that Conon's "past". My view of Canon
is as a guide, every effort should be made to continue the "broad sweep" of "Imperial history" but continuous bickering
about each and every point that disagrees with what has been printed in some book before is senseless and counter
productive. As several people have said before, many of the people playing this game started during the CT era and have
those books for reference, many started during MT and have those books for reference, same with TNE, BUT many (hopefully)
are starting with T4 or will start with Gurps. Unless ALL of the prior material is reprinted, or a Bible is written to
provide a guide, variances WILL OCCUR, probably even if that material is available, so accept what fits your needs and be
grateful it's there.

The way I see it is that many prospective authors, with many good ideas, are out there to expand this game. BUT if they
have to spend more time worrying bout EACH AND EVERY minor detail to be sure that there isn't an obscure reference in some
out of print book that, they don't have available, then actually writing the adventure or supplement, how many of those
authors are going to submit anything? Does every Ref on this list check every book, including the out of print books they
DON'T HAVE, before writing up that adventure for this Saturday's game? I don't think so! They try to stay within the broad
sweep of THEIR OWN history, and check things when they think there may be relevance. So if a writer stays within the broad
sweep, and makes what efforts they can to meet accepted "Canon", I feel small glitches should be overlooked or adjusted by
the Ref. Those same authors should receive the praise their efforts deserve, (so they keep on working!), not constant
badgering about this and that non-canon fact, however minor it may be in the long run, or however easy it would be for a
thinking Ref to correct when he/she runs the game.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:23:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

Umm, what about the Marine Corps assets stationed in SoCal?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:36:56 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

Traveller Solution Series #1:
 
 
  Computer Architecture - The "Stempel" Architecture
 
 
- --The "problem" statement--
 
  This Computer Architecture is designed to allow a referee freedom
  in dealing with issues that may be beyond their ability to cope with
  all of the ideas and/or assumptions of what the future evolution of
  Traveller's timeline may bring.
 
  Many players are biased by the simple times in which we currently
  live, having lived through a rather phenomenal time period in which
  the development of computers proceeded at a rather rapid rate.
 
  Few could forsee, even in their own lifetimes, the limited usefulness
  of the von Neumann (architecture) machines which they were most familiar.
 
  Consider the following sample dialog:
    
    Ref: "The Zhodani seneschal has given you the integrated library
          data software/database."
    Plr: "I make a backup copy."
    Ref: "You can't copy the software. It is designed to grow and learn
          from its interaction with you. Besides, if you could just copy
          the software, you could pirate all the software on the ship's
          computer. I can't allow that."
    Plr: "It is all just 1's and 0's, there is no magic to the process. I
          should be able to store the program on disk, copy it, and run it
          as many times, from the beginning, as I want to. I just need to
          setup a Virtual Machine, set the execution steps to monitor the
          progress of the program, and if something changes, I'll know it."
 
  The point is here that the referee's lack of understanding of just what
  really is possible with a computer, based upon present-day understandings,
  lead to a complete and total distraction to the issue at hand, which is
  having fun playing Traveller.
 
  This gave rise to the following.
 
 
- --History--
 
  The von Neumann architecture was a very logical and popular one given
  its primary attribute:  scalability.  Its primitive memory structure
  gave rise to procedural processing theory, yet it was that very
  limitation that allowed its own failing:  the speed of light.
 
  The Stempel architecture is named not for its inventor, but its first
  Terran interpreter--Simon van Stempel--interpreted from Vilani machines
  which were probably first assembled from remnant Ancient's tech on
  Vland.  It was the perfect thing for Terran systems overworked, and
  overtasked for their role in the First Interstellar War.  Terrans
  eventually revised their old admonition to, "Keep It Simple, Stempel."
 
  The Hivers actually improved upon the architecture for their machines,
  thus explaining the differences in their systems.
 
  The retroteching of the Ancients, to allow maintenance at any of the
  most backward of ports, is what allowed the technology to be brought
  down to the most backward of human levels.  Some expertise is required
  to produce the lattice, but it is advanced technology designed for a
  lower tech embedded base.
 
 
- --Description/Details--
 
  Common Terran 20th century terms such as CPU were retained, though they
  are now only arbitrary measurement values, not even actual components in
  the Stempel architecture.  Even activities such as programming, storage,
  and writing programs hold their old labels, while all other similarities
  were lost long ago.
 
  Basically, the Stempel architecture does all processing in linear time.
  Where the archaic von Neumann machines were scalable, i.e. multi-processor
  and multi-programmable, the Stempel machines have a different focus.  The
  best description dates back to van Stempel's first papers on the subject.
 
  "While faster and faster processors, to a point, were the hallmark of
  von Neumann machines, the Stempel has run-time as its hallmark achievement.
  Of course, that is not the only thing, just the most pronounced for those
  of us in the 'old school.'  And yes, just as run-time _was_ scalable,
  now scalability is still available, just not at previously exponential
  rates of growth."
 
  "The achievment of the super-conducting non-determinism tree stores a
  seemingly infinite amount of conclusions, the apparently non-deterministic
  infinite state machine 'processor' is not CPU or I/O bound as our old
  ancestor was, which by the way, achieved its maximum potential in 2006 AD.
  In the Stempel architecture, for programs which require input, the answer
  is virtually instantaneous for simple problems, and the set of NP-ultra
  problems are computed in a matter of hours."
 
  "The Stempel crystal lattice (tree) holographically stores information
  rather than the old (and primitive) silicon-based feedback-derived memory
  storage systems."
  
 
- --Referee Briefing--
 
  As I said in the Introduction to the Series, Stempel architecture allows
  the Traveller Referee to even justify/explain the AI Virus.  Armed with
  the Stempel architecture, even the unarmed Referee can stand up to the
  most experienced computer expert.
 
  Most direct statements can be answered with, "Sorry, but I'm using
  Stempel computer architecture in my campaign.  Keep it Simple, Stempel."
 
 
- --The Guarantee--
 
  As long as the user of Stempel Architecture does not "overdefine" the
  technology, _all_ assaults from knowledgeable players like myself, can
  be successfully fended off.  Computer knowledgeable referees may not
  even need Stempel Architecture, but may enjoy incorporating it into the
  campaign as an "alien" computer architecture.
 
 
I'll be happy to answer any questions "offline" to assist in the use of
this technique.


Leroy Guatney - lwlg@usa.net
 University of Mars, NorthAm Campus
 Class of '98

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:35:57 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Traveller Solution Series: Introduction

I seriously thought about posting this under the subject line of
 
  "What Hard Science (or Reality-based) Gaming Means to Me"
 
My short stay on TML this Summer introduced me to a large cross-section
of Traveller fans/players/referees on the 'net.  The TML has a rather
diverse population of people that fit into no mold.  Watching and thinking
and analyzing the events of the "list", culminating with the "spreadsheet"
response, which one of my own players, uninfluenced by TML, echoed the
same sentiments about FF&S2.
 
It recently occured to me that I could try to reach a number of disparate
groups of Travellers with an approach to the status of the game that I
believe is mostly untried.  The bashing of _Fire, Fusion & Steel II (2)_
pointed out several things to me, which brings me to the "hard science"
comment above.  I lifted those words from the sidebar of the article in
Pyramid #25, which I only recently had read.  (A pleasing discovery was
the line, "So, we had to fill in the holes."  Yeeeessssssss, that's what
I have been saying for awhile now.)
 
Having nearly completed my B.S. in Computer Science and Engineering at
the University of Colorado at Denver, USA, I realized recently, while
playing a gaming session of Traveller, that my referee, in his latest
incarnation of a Traveller campaign c.1100, was trying to approach the
game from as much a "realist's" perspective as possible.  Realist is my
euphemism for "gearheading", and like it or not, "gearhead" is becoming
euphemistic.  He had even gone so far as to abandon anti-grav.
 
In the past, I have used a play on the old Traveller slogan, "Science
(Fiction) Adventure in the Far Future."  I have been rethinking this,
and have come to a _major_ realization about the problem with this
attitude.
 
Jay's vented frustration, while somewhat heated, was very accurate and
hit right to the point.  I won't condemn him on some of the language he
used attacking gearheads, partially because I know what it can be like
to be frustrated to that point, and also because it should have caused
_everybody_ to consider the reasoning behind his claim.  Anyway, onward.
 
That referee I mentioned above, is the only one of our group (he and I
alternate refereeing) without out a "hard" computer background.  I have
been in the industry back to "Jurassic" times (1979).  One player is the
IT director for a large taxi-cab company here in Denver.  Another is a
Software Engineer for Hewlett-Packard in Fort Collins, and the other
player and I used to work together, and now works on computers for the
U.S. government at the Bureau of Land Management.  Two other players
of my former campaign are also computer engineers of one sort or another.
 
We have a combined industry experience exceeding 80 years!  As it turns
out, only my character has Computer skill, derived from his Robotics
skill.  During one session, we got caught up in "what was possible to do
and what wasn't" and I got the motivation for this _Traveller Solution
Series_.
 
It is very likely, though he would never admit it, that our referee felt
quite intimidated by his player group.  At the same time, it is possible
that he just did not have a very well thought out "view" of computers in
a "Far Future" setting.  In any case, the level of frustration I felt,
since I was the one with the skill, and the real-world experience, lead
me to design an _entirely new_ Computer Architecture.
 
Having the undergraduate experience tucked away, and realizing that there
are not too many people "pioneering" new computer architectures for several
hundred years down the road, I could make the argument that I have a PhD
for these purposes in Computer Architecture. :)
 
See my next TSS post, number I (1/one), which will be posted to the lists
after this one is, for a Computer Architecture designed to provided a "hard
science" feel for it, and at the same time, leave all the vagueness of
what I call "Black Box Design", where a Jump drive, for example is simply
a man-made machine which weighs X tons, provides performance of Jump-Y in
a ship of Z tons total displacement.  It requires Y*0.1*Z tons of fuel
per Jump-Y.  There are other details, but it really is that simple.
 
Remember:  we can make more and more complex models, but ultimately, all
we have are models, and barely even working prototypes.  I think it would
be really cool if others on the list with areas of knowledge, expertise,
or experience, could provide similar presentations for future subjects to
be posted to the _Traveller Solution Series_.
 
The goal should not be lost sight of:  having fun.  If gearhead bashing
or too much gearheading start interfering with a campaign, it should be
done away with since the orignal goal was to have fun.
 
This post/series is not for everyone, but it may help some of those who
don't have PhDs or a lifetime of experience in a given field.
 
Remember, those of us in the scientific community have an obligation to
everyone else we share ideas with.  Many of those with other experiences
may not appreciate being subjected to the ups and downs of scientific
experimentation, building that hypothesis with all of its considerations
and assumptions, then going for the roller coaster ride of publishing the
hypothesis, developing conclusions from it, extrapolating the future, and
then in a few years time, revising the hypothesis given the findings from
the new experience of testing the hypothesis.
 
We _are_ only constructing models of reality, and any sufficiently advanced
reality will always be distinguishable from the models.  We may be
rationalizing our complex models on the basis of our understanding, but that
does not make it any less a "willful suspension of disbelief" than anybody
else's.
 
By the way, I was always an opponent of Traveller: The New Era's AI Virus
for many of my instincts about what computers are capable of.  Afterall,
they are just 1's and 0's and with fun things like AI, or expert systems,
or whatever the latest "craze" is, it is easy to lose sight of that fact.
Admittedley, the problem with TNE's Virus was not so much the Virus itself,
but its effects on the Universe.  Many of us still attacked the AI Virus
on technical grounds rather than just bellyache, give us back the Imperium.
 
Anyway, TSS#1 can _even_ be used to justify and explain the TNE AI Virus,
which I considered a good test of the feasibility of my design.  Let's
put the "Fiction" back with the Science and get the players of this game
back together, rather than petty squabbling about the particular version
we all have a particular fondness for.
 
It can also be used to justify/explain Book 2/High Guard computer tonnages,
energy requirements, etc. or any other computer system for that matter.
 
I invite other TSS subjects to be posted, including alternative Computer
Architectures of the same intent.
 
 
In My Opinion,
 
 
Leroy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:52:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commentary

I'm a REMF and quite proud of it.  Actually these days it's a more dangerous
proposition to be in headquarters than it is to be a grunt.  I have to work
in a building stuffed with computers, the general, and all sorts of very
important people.  I think it as one big bullseye with every cruise missile
and LG bomb trained at it.  At least a grunt can duck or get under cover.
 I'm afraid my SPARCsation will not give much cover from a cruise missile
slamming into my CP.
Kenneth P.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:49:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:
> Mexico's greater gains in the far west are easoier to explain after the
> nuking of LA removed most of the reason to defend the area.. Oddly enough,
> most of California's NG units are in the northern half of the state.

	Speaking as a Northern Californian, the Mexicans can _have_ LA. :-)

- -JM 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:44:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Reactionaries!

Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com> said:
> Anyway, since you asked, that's what I had against TNE.  The setting
> wasn't high on my list, but the bigger problem I had was the game's
> playability.  
> 
> That, and the fact that the game just didn't feel like Traveller.  No
> D6's.  They changed the trademark chargen for Heaven's sake!

	I respect your opinion Kenneth, but I have to say that this 
position has always baffled me.  Traveller has never been about D6's or 
chargen.  Traveller is a sweeping future history.  Traveller is a 
remarkably rich, self-consistent gaming background.  Traveller is many 
things, but IMHO, it has never been about what shape your _dice_ are.  
	I can play the Traveller Adventure with a small group of players
and whether we use D6s, D100s, a roulette wheel, or tarot cards, we're
still playing Traveller.  For me, the "feel" of Traveller has always had
far more to do with science fiction adventure against a grand interstellar
back drop than the minutia of dice or auto-fire rules. 
	All IMHO, and to each his own.

- -JM

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1819
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 13 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1820



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: America 2300ad
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Ship Economics
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Jump torpedoes
Re: America 2300ad
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Jump torpedoes
Re: XBoats. J6 or J4?
Re: Reactionaries!
Re: getting stuff done
Explosive Question
Vilani & Vargr
Fusion
Re: Commentary
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative
Re: Plague of Duskir etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 11:42:32 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 01:23 PM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Umm, what about the Marine Corps assets stationed in SoCal?

By 1998 they're in South Korea... remember, the US is involved in a total
war when the strategic exchange occurs, and only after that happens does
the whole Civil War/Mexican invasion happen.

Also, (I just checked) Camp Pendelton and El Toro both recieved 50kt gifts
coutesy of the Strategic Rocket Forces.  Add the 1Mt drooped on the Navy
base at San Diego, and there isn't much left of the US Military in SoCal.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:59:04 -0400
From: Thomas Walter Trelenberg <tomt@scri.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

**********************************
>I agree with most what you are saying about "let us be proud of America
>but not cram "America" down everyones gut" but feel the need to point
>out a few points on your above statement.

Woah, woah...  Slow down just a second.  I hope I didn't give the wrong
impression here.  I am very proud of America's forays into space, in
fact, I
don't think we go there enough :)
**********************************


Ahhhhh.....so then your "fat and lazy due to technology" is directed at
me ehh...Well I have never been so insul.....er uh have we ever meet? 
How do you know me so well. :-)  In anycase I think I mistook your
meaning.  I think you were refering more to America today..with which I
agree....as opposed to times gone by.  While some very good work is done
today, I think the short-term veiw (as far as profits, results, personal
satisfactions, attention span, etc) is really limiting what could be
done.  OTOH maybe one major accomplishment per nation per century is
part of the equation and anything else a given political entity is able
to pull off is just gravy. ;-)

Also thanks to the brothers Douglas (and the others who responded) to my
tidally locked question and for the cosmonaut death numbers that make
most of the remaining post (part of which is above)that I responded to
Semo in null and void....I did say my "facts" were only from talking
with people from former USSR and the way they perceived it.  Truely
those few that I spoke to are not a representative selection and I
should do more research before opening my mouth.  Thanks for the
correction!

TT

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:06:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Ship Economics

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:
> 
> John Macpherson writes:
> >(2)  Why did you choose 3% as the "fair profit" on the ship owner's 
> >investment?  Why does his investment get a lower return than the banks?  
> 
> He dosen't. The 6.25% the bank gets include repayment of the loan. After
> 40 years the owner owns the ship (which will by then be worth 25% of its
> original price, according to a TD or MTJ Q&A). I've been informed that
> it works out at a rate of return very close to 3% (I don't know how to
> calculate such things, so I haven't checked it myself).

	Well, I'd like to talk to whoever gave you those figures, because
they're not at all what I get.  First of all, whether the return that the
bank gets includes the principle is irrelevant.  The bank is purchasing a
stream of cash flows when it makes a loan.  It puts up 80% of the ship
price and in return gets a series of monthly payments for 40 years that
carry a certain risk.  The rate of interest that makes the Net Present
Value of those payments equal to zero is very close to 6%.  You can check
this yourself using the Internal Rate of Return function in Excel.
	Since the ship owner and the bank are investing in the same ship, 
all of the same risk factors etc. apply, so their return should be 
approximately the same.  (Arguments could be made to lower or raise the 
proper return for these two parties, but lets keep things simple).
	Admittedly, this argument is mostly academic since it won't 
change the prices you've calculated by too much.  Good job on that, btw.  
It would be nice if T4.1 or _some_ version of Traveller had a rational 
economic system.

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:35:28 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

>X-Sender: brenton@psfc.mit.edu
>Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:11:45 -0400
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
>Sender: owner-traveller@lists.MPGN.COM
>Reply-To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>
>>>Ahem, the 'canon' xboat was jump-4, not jump-6.  Saves a lot of fuel space,
>>>as well as drive space.
>>
>>Wrong answer!, the TL-15 Xboat was jump-6, it is from several "canon"
>>sources.
>>If you would like I can start quoting the sources.
>
>Sure, I would be very interested in such things.  My source is Traders and
>Gunboats, Supplement 7, CT.
>
>Also (I Think) Starships, Book 3, CT.
>
>I believe that the Megatraveller Encyclopedia repeated that trend, but I
>may be wrong.  In any case, a jump 6 xboat network invalidates the cute
>little trick in the rebellion era when Norris knew of the assassination of
>Strephon before the rest of the domain.  This occurred, according to, I
>think, The Rebellion Sourcebook, through the use of the Imperiallines
>covert imperial courier ships which *were* J6.
>
>I do not recall whether they were TL15.  I seem to think they were TL14
>which was more common in that era anyway, especially among the scout
>service vessels.  A military courier was in Fighting Ships (Supplement 9)
>and that may have been jump 6 and TL15.
>

I stand corrected, I was thinking about it and researched it. X-boats are
j-4 , the couriers are J-6.

My apologies, I was wrong.


- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 16:48:18 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Jump torpedoes

On 09/13/97 at 01:56 AM,  hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale) said:

>   To answer the question of the economic feasibility of commo jump torps,
>we need the answer to the following question: How often do problems arise
>as a ship prepares to exits jump space that require an astrogator to make
>adjustments (to avoid becoming space debris upon re-entering normal
>space)?  If this is fairly often or even sometimes, what percentage of
>these occurances could be programmed into the jump torp's brain (so that
>it could make the corrections on its own)?  I'm not sure if these answers
>exist anywhere canonially speaking.

Harold, I don't recall there being *any* reference to a ship *in* jumpspace
having the ability to sense anything in normal space.  If that's the case,
then the astrogator has no way of knowing when he has "to make adjustments
(to avoid becoming space debris...", and when he doesn't.  

In fact, just *how* does one make an astrogation (or piloting, for that
matter) adjustment while in jumpspace?  I thought that with traditional
jump drives once you jumped you couldn't affect anything at all until you
precepitated back into normal space (approx. one week later).

I've posted how *my* jump drives work previously, so I won't go into them
except to say that I use instantanous trans-location with a week for the
jump bubble to disolve. Someone *on* the ship has to lock onto the target
coordinates, and once a ship commits to jump it's done and just have to
take their chances on exactly where they arrive. Unmanned jumps don't work
well in my universe, they are possible, but there is *very* little control
over where the unmanned vehicle will emerge in the target system, and
chances of misjump are much higher.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:09:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

In a message dated 97-09-13 17:37:00 EDT, you write:

<< By 1998 they're in South Korea... remember, the US is involved in a total
 war when the strategic exchange occurs, and only after that happens does
 the whole Civil War/Mexican invasion happen.
 
Probably a goodly presence in the Gulf too if that's the case then.  Just to
be realistic.
 
Also, (I just checked) Camp Pendelton and El Toro both recieved 50kt gifts
 coutesy of the Strategic Rocket Forces.  Add the 1Mt drooped on the Navy
 base at San Diego, and there isn't much left of the US Military in SoCal. >>

Double ouch.  I'm stationed at El Toro too.  Always nice to know us
"lazy-assed REMF wingers" are such a high priority for being made into self
lighting glass parking lots.  Oh well, Pendletons a little pesthole anyway :)
 Probably looks much better made of glass.....
heheh
Ken P.

Nuke the site from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure.
- -Ripley "Aliens"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:21:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

>Mir is not only nothing more than a tin-can in space, it is a decrepit, 
>falling-apart tin-can in space.  

This is just it, and you have the same abhorrent attitude.  Yes, Mir isn't
the great, super-duper, can't wait to get it up, vaporware NASA space
station.  That much is true.  It is small, it s relatively low tech, and it
had a short life expectency when put up of only a few years before it would
break down...

But, many important experiments were performed on Mir, or with the help of
Mir.

That's the bottom line.  

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 00:20:05 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump torpedoes

Harold Hale writes:
>>No you don't. If we assume jump torpedoes of the kind I've suggested
>>(essentially a jump drive with an unfolding jump grid) then the type
>>of jump capacitor used before ca. 1080 wouldn't allow jump torpedoes
>>(though you mustn't ask me just what the difference is between pre-1080
>>jump capacitors IS; I've never been able to come up with a good answer). 
> 
>   I wasn't aware that there was a difference.  Where does this appear
>in Traveller publications?

Some of the earliest Traveller News Service items. There was one about how
drop tanks was being introduced to the Marches after having been in use at
the Core for only a few decades.
 
>>Jump torpedoes may be useful enough, but if the earliest prototypes aren't
>>developed until around 1105, then they may not be ready for deployment to
>>the whole navy before the Rebellion breaks out. Remember, a jump-6 torpedo 
>>would take up a minimum of more than 7 T and would require a jump-6 ship to 
>>send it off.
>  
>   Why should the jump capacity of the launching ship factor into the
>jump capacity of the missile?  So long as the launching vessel has an
>astrogator and a computer on board capable of plotting a jump and
>feeding the data to the missile, there's not even really a need for the
>launching vessel even to have a jump drive.

Well, it's about assumptions. If a jump drive works exactly the way _SoM_ 
claims, you don't even need a full jump drive in the torpedo, just the 
capacitors. Now that you mention it, if you put a full jump drive into each 
torpedo (and if you don't, the damn thing will be much too cheap), then the 
ship dosen't need a jump drive of its own. But it does need a big enough 
computer and it does need enough fuel to send off a 100 T ship.

>>You kiss a MCr30+ torpedo goodbye. Acceptable if losses are almost non-
>>existent, otherwise not.
> 
>   To answer the question of the economic feasibility of commo jump
>torps, we need the answer to the following question: How often do
>problems arise as a ship prepares to exits jump space that require an
>astrogator to make adjustments (to avoid becoming space debris upon
>re-entering normal space)?  If this is fairly often or even sometimes,
>what percentage of these occurances could be programmed into the jump
>torp's brain (so that it could make the corrections on its own)?  I'm
>not sure if these answers exist anywhere canonially speaking.

Back when I compared these things to X-boats, I calculated that a 1 in 36
chance per jump of losing a torpedo would make an X-torp network slightly
more expensive than an equivalent X-boat network. 

 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:36:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: XBoats. J6 or J4?

>> However, these were not part of the XBoat network. They weren't what is
>> termed an Express Boat, and they didn't follow XBoat routes.  They weren't
>> owned by the IISS (they were owned by the branch of the palace that
handled
>> the Emperor's transportation), and finally, they look nothing like XBoats
and
>> had different tonnage.
>
>Naval Fleet Couriers were also J-6 (see Supp 9).

Yes, that's true.  I find very little reason to believe, however, that Fleet
Couriers were used as XBoats.  I would imagine that Fleet Couriers would be
used more to carry Naval Personnel and information around during "peace time"
and used to move orders and important information around during war time.
 There is a note or two in the Rebellion source book that says they were
sometimes used sort-of-like XBoats sometimes...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:27:02 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Reactionaries!

John Macpherson wrote:

>         I respect your opinion Kenneth, but I have to say that this
> position has always baffled me.

As I respect yours.

  Traveller has never been about D6's or
> chargen.  Traveller is a sweeping future history.  Traveller is a
> remarkably rich, self-consistent gaming background.  Traveller is many
> things, but IMHO, it has never been about what shape your _dice_ are.

The dice are just one aspect of several characteristics that make up
Traveller.  You make a good point, but I'd say Traveller's way of doing
things is one big aspect of the whole "Traveller" feel.

My point was that T4, MT, and CT all have the same "feel" in game
mechanics.  There are different rules in each system--take how autofire
is handled in each of them for instance.  But each one had a "Traveller
feel" to its game mechanics.  I have no problem seeing each of the
different rules (whether it be CT's roll two attacks for autofire or
T4's double damage for autofire) in either of the systems, because each
were designed with a Traveller mind set.  They took a Traveller approach
to designing the rules systems.

I'm sorry I'm being so ambiguous here, but it is hard to put a thumb on
what the Traveller feel is.  It's like the discussion we had a while
back on Traveller art.  Foss, while producing good science fiction art,
is just not a "Traveller" artist.  Bryan Gibson, on the other hand, is a
good "Traveller" artist.

What we are talking about here is the Traveller genre.  People get a
feel for it.  The dice--D6's--are part of it.  Art is part of it. 
Approach to game mechanics is part of it.

TNE just wasn't a part of the Traveller genre.  It didn't have the
Traveller feel for a number of reasons.

Let me explain it like this.  Just about everybody has a good feel for
what D&D is.  Now, lets say you play a D&D adventure module, set in a
D&D official world, but you use the Role-Aids rules.

D20's and multiple dice to a percentage dice based system.  Different
stats.  Different approaches to game mechanics.  Different rules.

It's a totally different feel that is just not D&D.  It is fine if you
want to play Role-Aids, but if you are looking for that specific D&D
feel (which is why you bought D&D instead of Role-Aids in the first
place), it is just not there.

This was the problem with TNE.  It wasn't Traveller.  It was a different
game played in the Traveller universe.

Maybe I'm getting my feeling across here, and maybe I'm not.  Sometimes
it is hard to describe what you like and dislike about something.  You
just know you don't.

Last night I saw an interview with Jennifer Jason Leigh on Letterman. 
My friend said that he didn't like Jennifer.  I happen to like her as an
actress.  I asked him what he didn't like about her, and he really
couldn't tell me.  She just did nothing for him.  At the same time, I
had just as much difficulty putting a finger on why I liked her.  I
simply saw her in some roles,and I thought she did a good job.  When you
start asking me what exactly she did good, it is harder to distinguish.

I think people talking about their preferance for or against TNE falls
in this same category.  I've tried to hint at why TNE didn't sell with
me above.

I may or may not have been successful with that.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:46:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

>Never forget that the US *had* a space station. Skylab. And between
>NASA and Congress, we piddled things away on the Shuttle program until
>it was too late to reboost it. If the Shuttle funding hadn't had games
>played with it, or if NASA had been willing to propose a "just in case"
>backup program that could've re-boosted Skylab if the Shuttle program
>wound up behind schedule (as it did) then we'd still have a Space
>Station. 

Y'know, embarassed as  am to say t, I had just about almost forgotten about
Skylab :)  My brother and I put a model of it together at my grandparents'
shorehouse when I was a wee kiddie and then we set it on fire and smashed
it...  For educational reasons of course, simulating atmospheric re-entry of
an unstreamlined hull :).

However, skylab was allowed to fall.  We don't have a space station any more,
and Mir's still up there chugging along.  I am an avowed Mir lover, and will
be very sad when it finally peters out.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 17:37:25 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Explosive Question

I'm trying to throw some grenades into my game tomorrow night, so I
started rummaging through the EA to pick out some goodies for my bad
guys.

Now, I have a delimma that maybe one of you can help me with.  Take a
look at the Damage notes for explosives in the EA.

When the damage rating for a weapon that does explosive damage is listed
like this--

Damage			or this		Damage
- ------					------
3 explosive				5 fragmentation



I know what it is because of the rules in Book 1.

But, my problem comes in with other damage descriptions.  The TL 6
section of the EA has several examples.

Take a look at the TL 6 recoilless rifle.

Damage
- ------
21 (16 explosive)

What the heck does that mean.  Does the gun do 21 or 16 damage?  Or,
does the gun do 21 damage with 16 of that 21 being explosive?  Or is 21
applied against vehicles and 16 applied against personnel?

How the heck do you read that?


Also, look at the TL 6 heavy cannon.

Damage
- ------
20/25 HEAP



Again, what does that mean?


Or the TL 6 very heavy cannon.

Damage
- ------
25 (14 expl.)/37 expl.



Or the TL 6 medium cannon

Damage
- ------
17/21 (16 expl.)



Does anybody know how to read this information?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:20:19 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Vilani & Vargr

Today I found a copy of DGP's Vilani and Vargr at a local used book store.
It is in excellent condition. I already have a copy, but I thought someone
on the list might be interested so I picked it up. Was I right? Is anyone
on this list interested?

Joseph Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

"The Internet is an electronic asylum full of babbling loonies." (--Mike
Royko)
"Woo-hoo-woo-hoo-woo-hoo!" (--Daffy Duck)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 17:17:24 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Fusion

On 09/12/97 at 10:59 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>Sorry, but even in a fusion reactor the plasma is pretty thin. The hot
>plasma is low density, so *it* will cool off without seriously heating the
>surroundings. That's one of the reasons you need to use magnetic fields,
>to keep the plasma from cooling off by contacting the walls of the
>reactor.

Yeah, the way we design/propose designing fusion reactors today you're
right.  Given the strong reliance on gravitics, though, I wonder if maybe
fusion reactors might be designed to run at much higher pressures with much
lower temperatures.  Could they use gravitic focusing to maintain the
higher plasma density?  (Lower temperature is relative, of course.;-)

>And the ship *won't* explode if you breach the fusion bottle. 

Yeah, but if the fusion bottle is breached then the energy *extraction*
system is probably breached too, and *that* might be a spectacular
explosion. ;->

What about extraction of useful energy from a fusion reactor, ie how do you
turn all the heat and gamma radiation into electricity?  Just how will be
done with Traveller technology, and at what efficiencies?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:43:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Commentary

You wrote: 

I generally extend profession courtesy and refrain from denigrating any 
sort of servicemember in public, (read in front of civillians).  But 
this is such a pompous and assinine statement I couldn't let it pass.  
My apologies to the list for wasting bandwith having a word with this 
fool.

>I'm a REMF and quite proud of it.  Actually these days it's a more 

First sentence is good.  REMFs are important.  I wouldn't be much good 
without the REMFs who fly me to the combat zone, do the paperwork so I 
get my ammunition and demo and food, and tell me where the hell the bad 
guys are.  Very important.  It falls apart after that.

dangerous
>proposition to be in headquarters than it is to be a grunt.  I have to 

Only if you have a problem with blood poisioning from papercuts.

work
>in a building stuffed with computers, the general, and all sorts of 
very
>important people.  I think it as one big bullseye with every cruise 

Wow.  You might also have a heart attack when the O-8 in the building 
asks why you're playing 'DOOM' on your expensive government computor.

missile
>and LG bomb trained at it.  At least a grunt can duck or get under 

Genius, other than the French, Brits, and a couple other NATO allies, 
who the hell has that many LGBs?  And who has an Air Force that can 
bull through the USAF's F-15 wings?

cover.
> I'm afraid my SPARCsation will not give much cover from a cruise 
missile
>slamming into my CP.

OK, let's put what I do for a living out here. 

I'm a Combat Engineer.  I conduct assault breaches, which means 
lowcrawling out into machinegun fire ahead of the infantry with 
explosives or wirecutters strapped to my ass, and then I _stop_, and 
breach the wire.  I've done it on MILES battlefields repeatedly, and 
_never_ made it past the wire without that annoying 'screeeeeeeeee' 
going of.  Which meant if the bullets were _real_, I'd be deceased.  
And when I'm not doing that, I'm clearing land mines.  Now, compared to 
that, your weenie 71L-sitting-at-a-workstation-sucking-your-thumb 
bullshit just fails to impress.

John M. Atkinson
12B10 and damn proud of it

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:10:32 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

In mail you write:

> At 12:27 AM 9/13/97 PST, you wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>
>>Never forget that the US *had* a space station. Skylab. And between
>>NASA and Congress, we piddled things away on the Shuttle program until
>>it was too late to reboost it. If the Shuttle funding hadn't had games
>>played with it, or if NASA had been willing to propose a "just in case"
>>backup program that could've re-boosted Skylab if the Shuttle program
>>wound up behind schedule (as it did) then we'd still have a Space
>>Station. 
>
>>And while the backup might have been a bit hard to sell, they could
>>have had a secondary purpose for it. ("If, as we expect, the Shuttle is
>>on schedule, then we can use this to do X")
>
> NASA did have the capacity to reboost Skylab (there was at least one gantry,
> one Saturn V and a couple of Saturn I's left over from the Apollo program).

Sorry, but that's wrong. At the time they *had* to re-boost it, they
didn't have anything that could do it. The Saturn rockets had been
turned into lawn displays....

They bet it all on the Shuttle being ready in time, and lost.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 15:59:19 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative

In mail you write:

>> From:          shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>>> My opinion differs.  I think that a large handgun or .45 caliber
>>> submachine gun will cause a significant breathing hazard if
>>> frequently and repeatedly fired in an enclosed space over the
>>> course of a 5-10 minute battle.
 
>> It's likely to trigger the fire suppression systems, or at least trip
>> the ventilation sensors to run the airflow at "high". (BTW, I have yet
>> to see an indoor firing range that meets the standards for airflow in
>> places like offices, much less industrial work areas)
>
> It is much more likely that, in the case of a fire, the ventilation 
> system would shut down the airflow in order to minimize the spread of 
> the fire.  I read that this was a lesson learned on Mir, and that the 
> software which controls ventilation on the space station _Freedom_ 
> was modified to turn the ventilation fans _off_ ifthere is a fire.

Note the "or" up there. Triggerring the ventilation to "High" is the
"non-fire" response. I.E. the software is smart enough to realize it's
either a gunfight or a cigar smoker's convention. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:35:48 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Plague of Duskir etc.

Phillip, I hope you'll forgive me for getting a bit sharper in my response,
but I'm getting a tiny bit tired of being forced to repeat myself again and
again. Frankly, I suspect that in the heat of the debate you may have gotten
your priorities a bit turned around and it is no longer about getting the
PoD to make sense but about winning the argument. If I'm wrong about that
then I apologize. 

Phillip McGregor writes:

>>>And look at the Santanocheev affair -- everyone thinks (officially) that 
>>>he's hot stuff because of his careful media management, but he's 
>>>(allegedly -- according to Norris) a total incompetent. 
>>
>>Also according to authorial sources.
> 
>And the authors have never *ever* gone back on anything they've written? Like
>Annic Nova? Jump Torpedoes? HePlar replacing Thruster Plates?

They've made numerous mistakes over the years, but except for rules mechanics
I can't think of many deliberate changes (Or perhaps I should say obviously
deliberate changes; who can know for sure whether this or that inconsistency
is actually a mistake or a deliberate change?). There's the importance of
Kinunirs and Gazelles; in early publications they were billed as hot stuff;
later, when someone a GDW figured out just how much building capacity 15
trillion people represented, the Kinunirs and Gazelles became small stuff
compared to what else the Imperium had. That propably count as a deliberate
change (and one I thoroughly approve of, but then, the first version didn't
make sense, so it meets my criteria for a proper change in canon).

>If they can do it with tech, then why assume that they can't (or, indeed,
>haven't -- tho I can't think of any examples offhand) done it with History?

No reason at all to assume they can't do so. In fact, I've mailed a number 
of suggested changes to Mark Miller myself, though much to my regret he
appears not to agree with me about them. I don't dispute for a moment that
he is completely within his rights to disagree, but that dosen't mean I
don't regret it. It increases the chance of IG in the future publishing 
adventures I can't use.

>Certainly there are enough *inconsistencies* with Trav history to require
>*considerable* cleaning up and many changes to accepted "canon", one way or
>another. When (if) this is ever done, well, the "authors" will have to change
>history.

If you mean that they really ought to decide whether the _Maghiz_ took place
in -927, -925 or -924, then I agree completely (all three dates have appeared
in official Traveller publications (My preferrence: -924)).

>I, personally, do not entirely accept Solomani & Aslan as "canon" either, 
>partly because no copies ever made it into Oz [...]

I can't agree with you there. If we can't even agree on just what constitute
official Traveller material then what's the point of discussing anything?

>...and partly because it is obvious that moves were afoot to dump them.
>Ergo, I place about as much faith in anything published there as I do in 
>TNE's "fantasy".

My attitude to suspect Traveller publications is that if they introduce
inconsistencies then they should be ignored, but if they don't then they
should be accepted.

>Of course, that's neither here nor there. But if you're being selective as 
>to what parts of Traveller canon you accept, then I suppose I can be too.

I'm not being selective. I have a very rigid set of standards: If it makes
sense, then I accept it, whether I like it or not; if it dosen't make sense
or contradict previously published material, then I reject it.

>>Santanocheev was an incompetent. A future adventure module based on the 
>>publication of the biography: "Santanocheev  --  Hero of the 5th Frontier
>>War" would not conflict with this previously published material (the
>>canonical truth about the biography would just be that it was wrong), but 
>>an  adventure module based on the factual exploits of Santanocheev, hero of 
>>the 5th Frontier War, would be. 
> 
>But, unless you possess all the relevant Journals, you wouldn't know.

But if I wrote for IG and used Santanocheev then I'd either have all the
relevant Journals, in which case I shouldn't change canon, or I wouldn't
have them, in which case I would introduce an error (Which, depending on
how basic to the Traveller Universe it was, would be either excusable or
inexcusable). But _knowingly_ changing Santy from an incompetent to a
hero would, IMO, be wrong.

>This is why I find it astoundingly naive of people on this list to say things
>like "so what if T4 is stuffed, simply use the MTrav or TNE stuff as a
>supplement" ... er, sorry, but these items are all out of print, available 
>only as second hand items (or, if you're *really* lucky, in the bargain bin 
>at  randomly chosen FLGS's), so, for the *new* T4 players, they might as 
>well not exist. 

That's just where you are wrong. Whenever a T4 author builds on CT and MT
and even TNE material, then the T4 newbie is affected by it. The people who 
write for IG really ought to have access to this material, one way or the 
other (even if it is only as a 'continuity sheet'). I know this has not been 
the case, and that is a big mistake. If IG had made sure that their authors 
had a thorough grounding in Traveller lore (or had had the stuff vetted by 
someone in charge of continuity), all the previously published material
would have served to give a greater depth to the new stuff. 

>And anything that they say that is contradicted in T4 will *not* be 
>regarded as "canon" by the new breed of T4 players 

Yes, but why in the world change things if they make sense? You're only 
throwing away work that could have given greater versimilitude to the T4 
material.

>>>From what canonical publication did you get that interesting bit of 
>>information? As far as I know the origin of Annic Nova is and have always
>>been a mystery.
> 
>Its evidently from one of the last Digest Group Digests ... or from one of 
>them, anyway. I've seen the photocopied page in a friend's collection, but 
>he only has the page, not the reference of where it came from. However, 
>evidently (and I'm taking this from him again, he has a *far* bigger 
>collection of obscure Traveller stuff than I) the *alphabet* is a dead 
>giveaway ... it also was featured somewhere fairly obscure in the DGP MTrav 
>era, and it's evidently an obvious match.

OK, so the Annic Nova was painted with letters from a JP language. All that
proves is that it was last painted by someone from the JP. Dosen't prove
they built it.
 
>>So what? I've never said that canon hasen't changed or even that there are
>>bits that should be changed. I just say that it should be changed as little
>>as possible and only if it actually corrects a genuine inconsistency.
> 
>But *I'm* pointing out that they've changed canon whenever and wherever it
>suited them based on their own requirements, requirements that have no
>discernible connections with consistency, but a lot to do with their 
>particular belief system (almost always severely flawed in "real world" 
>terms) as to how "things *should* be". 

But are you saying that it is a good thing that they've done so (Whether
deliberately or carelessly  --  I still can't think of very many changes
that I believe are deliberate rather than errors, but that is really
besides the point)? If you think it is perfectly OK for canon to be so
fluid, why are you bothering to grouse about the PoD at all?

>>Essentially it was a jump drive with a collapsible jump grid framework that 
>>could be extended to cover 100 T. It was energized by the parent ship and
>>then pushed away from it in the same grace period between the capacitors
>>are charged and has to be discharged that is used in connection with drop 
>>tanks. (Presumably that means that jump torpedoes can't be built until
>>the brand of capacitors that allow drop tanks are invented around 1080). 
> 
>Which was essentially the design I proposed. However, regardless of whether 
>you or I came up with a design that seems workable to *us*, it remains a 
>fact that it was "canon" in Leviathan (which was set pre-1080) 

No, _Leviathan_ was set in 1106 or 1107.

>and that it still remains *non-canon* today.

In the sense that jump torpedoes have not been mentioned in any other
publication they are non-canon, yes. But that also means that they are
canon only in the same sense that Kinunirs as Big Macho Ships are canon
and in the same sense that faster-then-light radio is canon (Ie. they 
are really a mistake). 
 
>>Look, if someone some day publishes a canonical adventure set on Tobia in 
>>1122 complete with arrogant _ihatei_ masters swaggering along the Tobian
>>streets and brave resistance fighters struggling to throw off the Aslan
>>yoke, then I won't be able to use it, because in my opinion the Aslan
>>_ihatei_ would never be able to conquer Tobia in a month of Sundays.
>>Therefor I want IG to changes those parts of canon that dosen't make
>>sense. OTOH, if I've run an adventure for my players based on the 
>>revenge Santanocheev tried to take over Norris in 1116 and then IG
>>publishes an adventure that reveals that Santanocheev never existed, then
>>I won't be able to use that, irregardless of its other merits. Therefor I 
>>want them to refrain from changing canon unless they have a damn good
>>reason. No matter how good the 'No Santanocheev' scenario is, it dosen't
>>matter, because I can't _use_ the damn thing. Even if the story is much
>>more plausible and hangs together much better and makes for a whale of
>>an adventure I CAN'T USE THE DAMN THING. So changing canon merely to make
>>a more plausible story is a Bad Thing. Changing canon to eliminate
>>impossibilities is a Good Thing. 
> 
>OK. it boils down to, as I said, you accept the changes you like and reject
>those you don't. 

No, it boils down to that I advocate changes to those things that are
inconsistent and accept those things that are consistent. I'm at a loss
to understand how you can manage to twist that into "accepting changes I
like and rejecting those I don't". You're logic simply isn't. 

>As I said, I have no problem with that -- as long as you accept that this 
>means that there are going to be a hell of a lot of different versions of 
>what *is* "canon" out there, because not everyone is going to agree with 
>your particular belief system! And, for an obvious one, while I agree with 
>the Santanocheev one, I disagree with the Duskir one.

But unless you've simply decided not to believe in the Plague no matter
what, then it should be possible to identify those assumptions on which
we differ and either work out new assumptions we can both agree on or
agree to disagree. (or, if we agree on the assumptions, we should be 
able to spot the faulty logic on either my part or your part). 

>>You could put it that way. What I like to believe is that it suits my
>>purpose to agree with them when they make reasonable changes and to
>>disagree with them when they make unreasonable choices. In which case
>>the argument is back to whether the Plague of Duskir makes sense or not.
> 
>And, as I said, *you* decide when the changes are "reasonable" and when 
>they are "unreasonable" ... just as everyone else on this list (and who 
>has been buying Traveller for a long time) does. In other words, your 
>version of canon is no more "correct" than mine, or anyone elses, its 
>just that its the version *you* prefer.

I don't believe reason is quite so subjective as you imply here. There
are some gray areas, sure, but there are far more places where there is
only one reasonable interpretation. And again, if you really think the
issues are so subjective, why are you bothering to argue about them at
all? If you think that your interpretation of the PoD is no more correct
than mine, why discuss it at all?

>>No, of course not. For one thing, they haven't evolved yet. For another,
>>they don't affect Terrans, so we wouldn't recognize then if we saw them.
>>For a third, it is a mistake to get too detailed about such things. It
>>only gives people who know something about the subject an opportunity
>>to pick holes.
> 
>And it is a mistake *not* to get detailed enough, as it allows people who 
>know something about the subject an equally large opportunity to pick 
>holes! 

But if things are sufficiently vague, people of good will who know about
whatever it is will use that knowledge to shore up the story rather than 
pick holes in it. At least, that's what I try to do when I look at a hole 
in the Traveller continuity; I try my damnedst to work out something that 
explains away the inconsistency. It's only when I fail that I (reluctantly) 
decide that a change is appropiate. 

>>>I don't think it actually details this *anywhere*. In other words, *in your
>>>opinion* this is the case, but you don't have any solid facts for this -- OK,
>>>*in my opinion* it is *not* the case, and I have just as many facts backing 
>>>my opinion up!
>>
>>No, you have one less fact backing you up than I have: I have a canonical
>>statement of the effects of the disease. If things were the way you claim,
>>then that statement would be wrong. Ergo, things can't be the way you
>>claim. That's logic, innit?
> 
>So, a 0.3-0.5% or less die back supports the position that the disease was
>"devastating"? A 99% plus survival rate supports the claim that the Vilani
>immune system couldn't handle Terran diseases?

Sigh. I really wish you would try to read what I write. "1% of the 
population" does not necessarily mean "eaxctly 1% of each planet". It could 
also mean "100% of 1% of the planets" or it could mean (and this is what I 
think fits the known facts best) "a large percentage on some planets and
almost nothing on other planets".
 
>>>Assuming that this is true, then so what? Digestive bacteria, as I have 
>>>pointed out *are* affected by available antibiotics and have not become 
>>>resistant.
>>
>>Again, if a certain assumption is necessary to explain a canonical fact,
>>then that assumption should be made. Digestive bacteria today are affected 
> 
>Not if it flies in the face of objective reality.

What objective reality? You don't know how diseases and cures will be in
the real world in 200 years. (Not that the Traveller universe is identical 
to the real world anyway).
 
>Which means that even if the ZS population was only 10% of what it is in M0,
>then the "die back" is only 1%. Miniscule in the scheme of things.

Not if that 1% was 50% on some worlds and 0.5% on other worlds.
 
>And, gee, if we're talking pet theories, we're not talking "canon", are we? 
>And my "pet theory" seems to be *just* as reasonable!

But I'm labeling my theories as theories while you are presenting your
theories as canonical facts. Try not to confuse what you think is reasonable
with what has actually been published.

>>Which should suggest to you that the actual percentage of deaths is not the
>>most important factor in what gets remembered and what does not. You just
>>said that the Spanish Flu was the worst plague ever. That means that the
>>Black Death was not the worst ever, yet everybody I know has heard of it.
> 
>Err, sorry, I don't get the point! Most people don't know about the Black 
>Death, either. I teach High School level history (Senior and Junior) and I 
>can assure you that even the brightest students don't know about these 
>things -- a few might have some vague inkling of the BD existing and what 
>it is, but no better than that. Even Year 11 students, where we study WW1 
>and its causes, wouldn't have a clue about the SF, as it simply isn't 
>covered in what we teach, because it is irrelevant to what we teach.

You seem to be arguing my point beautifully: An event dosen't have to be
the biggest or worst or whatever in order to be remembered. It just has
to be thought worth remembering. So your point that if the PoD 'only'
killed a measly billion or two of people then it wouldn't be remembered
in 1100 is wrong.

>>>>>The worst plague in human history -- the Spanish Flu at the end of WW1 -- 
>>>>>was worse than this! 
>>>>
>>>>It killed over a billion people?
>>> 
>>>No, it killed a larger *percentage* of people. To have the same effect on 
>>>the population of the ZS, you would have to have it kill 5-8 billion 
>>>people. And even then, like I said, who remembers the Spanish Flu?
>>
>>And Ebola has been known to kill 100% of a village. To have the same effect
>>in the Danish yellow press a disease here in Denmark would have to kill at
>>least one person. And who, like I said, remembers the Black Death? 
> 
>So? Apart from a few scaremongering journo types ("The Hot Zone" et al) and 
>one reasonably stupid recent movie, why would anyone have ever heard of 
>Ebola? It's a nothing news item, really. If you live in the appropriate 
>areas of Africa, evem, there's minimal risk. I mean, who's ever heard of 
>O'nyong 'nyong fever? And it is supposedly almost as lethal as Ebola! It 
>just hasn't had the "good" press.

Again you're arguing my point beautifully. The actual percentage of deaths
are a lot less relevant than the number of survivors that hear about it.

>I'd actually be more scared on a new mutation of Swine Flu -- which is what
>Spanish Flu was. However, even this would not be likely to be a problem in 
>the ZS as the long voyage times and short incubation period would prevent 
>much spread.

We're not going to get much further in this discussion until you learn what
it means to be a carrier. Try reading about Typhoid Mary. I'll give you a
hint: People can carry a disease without getting ill themselves.
  
>>What was the socio-political impact of the Spanish Flu? Did it have effects
>>comparable to that of the Black Death? It isn't how many dies or how big a
>>percentage, it is what the historians thinks is significant.
> 
>And almost no-one knows of the BD either.
> 
>Perhaps its because you're European and it gets better press (so to speak) 
>in Danish history courses (I understand, for example, it really stuffed up 
>Norway majorly -- don't have a clue about Denmark). 

It messed us up quite a bit too (And England as well, so I'm a bit surprised
to learn that it is not part of Australian history).

>I would imagine that only those worlds that were hot by the PoD and which 
>lost a hell of a lot more than 0.3% of their people to it would even be 
>aware of it. And even there it would be a minor and mostly unknown footnote 
>to the more important military and political events of the Nth Interstellar 
>Wars and the RoM.

If you are going to claim that the minuscule selection of library data that
has been published in the last 20 years' worth of Traveller products have
any sort of relationship to what would be available in 1120 if the 
Traveller Universe had really existed, then I'm dropping this discussion
immidiately. For all we know it IS a minor and mostly unknown footnote.

>>>So we have around 99% or so resistant, as less than 1% died? 
>>
>>Yes, you are right. If the Old Vilani had had weakened immune systems but
>>99% still survived, then their descendants ought to have weak immune
>>systems too. So that theory don't hold water. The Vilani immune systems
>>must be potentially as strong as the Terran ones. But that wouldn't help
>>the generation of Vilani that encountered the Terran immigrants, because
>>an immune system that dosen't get properly excersised from birth dosen't
>>develop full strength.
> 
>So 99% of the populace that encountered the Terrans had a fully effective 
>immune system! That's what the figures show! 

I really wish you would read what I write. It gets tedious to write the
same things over and over again. As I said in the very paragraph that you 
quote, an immune system that isn't exposed to diseases from birth dosen't 
develop to it's full potential. 

>And now you're backing down on the keystone of "canon" in the area!

What keystone? The canon says that the Vilani were affected by diseases that
didn't bother the Terrans. Andrew suggested that their immune systems were
inherently weaker than the Terrans' due to 300,000 years of natural
selection on Vland. I thought that sounded reasonable. You pointed out a
flaw in the argument, and I changed my mind. But canon never said why the
Vilani were suceptible to those diseases; that was Andrew's contribution.

>>Potentially as strong, yes. But not developed to its full potential at the
>>time.
> 
>No, only 99% as effective. I fail to see any practical difference.

You're not really trying to work out a reasonable explanation for the
Plague of Duskir, are you? You seem more interested in proving it wrong
no matter what than in making it work. You yourself pointed out that the
Terrans ought to be able to save most of the Vilani. Now we tell you that
_according to the sources_ most of the Vilani did survive. And instead of
realizing that it fits in perfectly with what you've been saying all along,
you try to twist it into not fitting after all.
 
>>You know the old saw about white lies, black lies, and statistics? Just
>>because 1% of all Vilani survived dosen't mean that a much higher
>>percentage didn't die on some worlds close to Earth while some planets
>>far from Earth was scarcely touvhed. There's even a tiny bit of support
>>for that view in the fact that the Plague of Duskir is part of the
>>Solomani history (_S&A_) while it is apparently not part of Vilani
>>history (_V&V_).
> 
>So, the PoD was an accident. The PoD never occurred much elsewhere because 
>the Terrans realised the problem and provided the drugs and medical care
>necessary to prevent it elsewhere. So a few isolated worlds were hit badly.

That is one explanation that seems to fit the facts we have.
 
>Only on those worlds would it be likely to be an issue -- and only to the 
>now mostly Terran inhabitants (who replaced the dead Vilani).

Which may be why it is mentioned by the Solomani in _S&A_ and not by the
Vilani in _V&V_.

>It still sounds more and more like a beat up. And that the Vilani who 
>supposedly "cured" it was a faker.

You seem more interested in pushing your own theory than in working out
something reasonable that accords with the known facts.

>And you have already commented that the Vilani did not take prisoners and/or
>killed them because they fought wars on an economic basis and saw no sense in
>keeping them, economically speaking. Now, I've never seen that claim anywhere
>else, but it certainly seems to indicate that the Vilani had demonised the
>enemy, eh?!

No, I never said that, though I know that it was mentioned somewhere (I think
it was in _V&V_). And I don't think it was as absolute as you put it. IIRC
the Vilani were less inclined to take prisoners of war, but I don't think
it said that they never did. I'll check, if you like. (If it did say that
the Vilani NEVER took PoWs, then we have a conflict).

>>another, it makes him fight harder, because it reduces the attractiveness
>>of surrender. And finally it makes it more difficult to make friends with
>>him when you've conquered him. And we know for a fact that the Imperium
> 
>Japan in WW2. Yes, they fought harder -- mainly because they didn't want to
>dishonour their family or country, not so much because they were terrified of
>the Allies; and, of course, Australia was always able to be friendly trading
>partners with Japan both before and after the war. How do most modern day 
>Danes feel about Germany? 

Relationships are quite cordial.
 
>>put a lot of effort into making friends with Earth after the war. (In
>>fact, one of my ideas for TNE was that Earth had really resented being 
>>'liberated' by those Solomani fanatics from Home who just muscled in and
>>started to throw your weight about (You don't believe the Solomani
>>leaders turned over the reins of government to the Terran leaders, do
>>you? It's much more likely that they executed them as traitors...).
> 
>one of *your* ideas. Not "canon".

And not put forward as evidence of anything, just an idea I wanted to pass
on to whoever would be interested (Like Harold, perhaps?).
 
>it still boils down to the fact that the PoD is a beat up, no matter how you
>look at it. 

No, no mater how YOU look at it. The way I look at it it is perfectly
possibly to make the PoD conform to the facts as we have them.

>Now, if T4 (or, more likely, GTrav) publishes something that is set in the 
>period, or which unarguably and indisputably states support for the PoD 
>being devastating -- perhaps revising the death rate or whatever 

Oh, I get it. You don't think that a series of plagues can really be
considered devastating even if it kills, say, 1 out of 2 billion people,
if there happens to be another 98 billion living elsewhere. Just like
an Ebola attack that wipes out an entire village can't be considered
devastating because there are billions of people living elsewhere that
never got infected, so the death rate is really only a millionth of a
percent.
 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
  "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the
'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".
                  Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1820
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 14 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1821



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

A sidearm for insecure 400 kg gorillas...
Re: Historical events
Re: America 2300ad
Re: While we're at it...
Re: getting stuff done
Ken's Chargen Tweak
Gravity Advice
GURPRS Traveller Hardbacks
Duskir, Canon and Common Sense
Re: Gravity Advice
Aslan
2300 background simulation
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: (fwd)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:54:19 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: A sidearm for insecure 400 kg gorillas...

	A few days somebody posted about some crazed German gunsmith who'd
designed a .600 Nitro Express revolver.  Wishing to at least partially
emulate his genius, and also to try and push the envelope on FF&S2's
firearm design sequence a little, I ran the numbers through FF&S2.  I based
the caliber, length, and rated energy numbers of the historical equivalents
table. Stats follow for those interested

	It was pretty interesting, and revealed what I think to be a
shortcoming in the reciever calculations.  Although the round itself is
only (only?) 76 mm long, the reciever's minimum length according to the
FF&S2 design sequence should be 53.38 cm, or 7.02 times the length of the
round, which seems disporportionately long.  This cascades into the mass
numbers, which came out to about 11 kg using standard materials.  As the
original poster (Volker?) stated that the real-world weapon weighed 4 kg or
so, I used TL-8 advanced materials in the reciever, which jacked the price
up.  However, the increased mass really helps with the recoil.  At a loaded
mass of over 10 kg, the recoil is 5.41.  At a mass of 4 kg, the recoil
would be 7.63 (!).  I now understand why nobody is nuts enough to fire this
thing :).

	I would suggest modifying the sequence so that the maximum length
of the reciever for revolvers is no more than 3 times the round length.  I
derived this number using the T.L.A.R. principle.  This would of course
cascade into the mass numbers, fixing that problem too.

	All in all, it's a pretty ludicrous weapon.  I think it'd be a
surefire munchkin detection test though :).

	Here are the T4 stats:

Name: 	.600 Nitro Express Revolver
Damage:	9 (9.5 HE)
TL: 	8
Range: 	Short (22.39 m)
Shots: 	4 rounds
Mass: 	10.343 kg loaded, 9.84 empty
Reloads:.126 kg/round
Cost: 	6915 cr


Round:

.600 Nitro Express Revolver

Cal:		15.7 mm		Length: 		76 mm
Rated Energy:	11400 j		Mass:			125.84 gr
Base Area:	193.6 mm^2	Ideal Barrel Length:	46.3 cm
Prop. Volume:	10363.6 mm^3	Price:			2.30 cr.
Bullet length:	31.4 mm		Desig: 			.600 Nitro X
Case length: 	33.5 mm

Barrel:

Heavy rifled.

Length:			30 cm
Barr. len. Mod.:	-0.352
Mass:			0.9 kg
Price:			360 cr
Act. Muzz. Energ.:	9393.6 j


Reciever:

Light Double-Action Revolver, TL-8 advanced materials, 4-round cylinder,
pistol grip.

Min len:	53.38
Actual length:	53.38 cm
Mass:		8.94 kg empty (+.503 kg when loaded)
Price: 		6555 cr


Evaluation:

Length: 	83.38 cm
Bulk:		2
Mass (empty):	9.84 kg
Mass (loaded):	10.343 Kg
Price:		6915 cr.
Basic Range:	22.39 (short)
Damage:		9.23
Recoil:		5.41

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:11:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Historical events

>                        HISTORICAL EVENT GENERATOR
>                        ==========================
>
>This is a set of tables that can be used as a springboard for working out
the
>history of a planet. First go through your Traveller material and note down
>any events that are mentioned there. The roll first for major world events
>(Table A), then for important world events (Table B), then for notable world
>events (Table C). This will give you a framework to start with. Note that it
>is a framework, not a straight-jacket. If the tables call for the breakup of

<excellent historical event tables snipped>

Cool!  Always nice to see something we can use :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 20:31:16 -0600
From: Mark <bdmahan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

>I'm willing to bet on the Texas National Guard (read:49th 
>Armored Division) against any army the Mexicans could ever throw out.  
>Not to mention an ARMORED CORPS that just happens to be sitting in Fort 
>Hood.
When the Mexicans and Division Cuba invade, the 49th is in the 
Illinois/Indiana area doing disaster relief, looks like they were there 
for at least a year before taking a slow boat back home.

Weapons are an important factor in war, but not the decisive one: it is 
the man and not the materials that count. - Mao Tsetung

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 20:31:10 -0600
From: Mark <bdmahan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: While we're at it...

>Can someone post real life stats, or web or literature references to
>either the Lahti or the Boys? (I'd _heard_ of the Boys .55 caliber round,
>by reference in 3G3, but I sort of assumed it was an old elephant gun
>round for some reason)

Mk I Boys .55
British antitank rifle
Adopted 1938
Cal 13.9x99mmB
Length                   163cm                                            
   64.1 in
Muzzle Vel             833.92mps                                      
2900 fps
Wt                    16.32kg empty 17.235kg loaded    35.904 lbs  empty  
 37.917 lbs  loaded
Rng                   150m eff  7335m max                   163 yrd eff  
7995 yrd max
Bolt action repeater  10 rpm
5 round box mag       .915kg                                              
 2 lbs
basic load 6 mags (30 rounds) 5.49kg                            12.078 lbs

Originally called the Stanchion gun, this weapon was renamed the Boys 
after the death of its designer Cpt Boys.  The weapon is a massive bolt 
action rifle with the magazine inserted into the top of the action.  The 
muzzle brake, heavily padded butt, and recoilling action were all added 
to the design to help absorb some of the punishing recoil of the rifle.  
Sometimes found mounted on the Bren-gun carrier as a primary weapon, the 
Boys was quickly rendered obsolete as the armor of tanks soon became too 
thick for the .55 bullet to penetrate.

Bullet dia              14.2mm                                           
.562 in
Bullet wt              60.28g                                             
930 gr
Charge wt             13.8g                                              
213 gr
Round wt                  133g                                           
2052 gr
Barrel Ln (for Mv) 91.7cm                                            36.1 
in

From The Armory by Kevin Dockery, 1983.



Mind are like parachutes.  They only function when they are open. - Sir 
James Dewar

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 21:39:19 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

On 09/13/97 at 06:21 PM,  SemoFetus@aol.com said:

>>Mir is not only nothing more than a tin-can in space, it is a decrepit, 
>>falling-apart tin-can in space.  

>This is just it, and you have the same abhorrent attitude.  Yes, Mir isn't
>the great, super-duper, can't wait to get it up, vaporware NASA space
>station.  That much is true.  It is small, it s relatively low tech, and
>it had a short life expectency when put up of only a few years before it
>would break down...

>But, many important experiments were performed on Mir, or with the help of
>Mir.

>That's the bottom line.  

Oh, my!  Ya'll have hit one of my hot buttons!

<rant>
The bottom line is the Soviets put up a permanent Space Station while the
US and the rest of the free world sat on their thumbs.  Now with the USSR
broken up and Russia scrambling to find two kopecks to rub together they
are *keeping* it up and working.  Spit and baling wire maybe, have to use
"tap technology" to keep the computer, air system, etc working maybe, but
they, by the great gnu, are keeping it up and working!

What have *we* got?  We have *plans* to build a station
someday...maybe..if Congress doesn't cut the funding..if the shuttle
doesn't have another accident...if..if!!!

America has diddled away a full generation getting precious little done in
space.  We needed to establish *manned* bases on the moon, instead we
canceled the last two flights, wallowed in Watergate and learned to disco. 
We could have established a permanent station built around Skylab, instead
we let it fall all over Australia.  We needed to build a Delivery Van to
take supplies to a space stations, instead we built a gold-plated Winnebago
(the shuttle) that costs more to launch than Mir's yearly budget!  Then we
put all our eggs in that Winnebago and when it crashed..as much because of
Congressional and bureaucratic stupidity as anything..we grounded
*everything* for years while we "investigated" who was at fault, and never
once were the real culprits mentioned!  In the last 25 years we've
*officially* been flat stuck in place spinning our wheels.  The only think
*we* can point to is that we orbited the Hubble Telescope, and even that
had the embarrassment of being nearsighted!

Oh, and the go-cart in a balloon we sent to Mars.  The bean-counters and
the unmanned-robotic crowd have just about sucked the live out of all the
manned programs to the point where, hell!  We've gone to Mars with our
machines, what you want to bet America *never* actually sends PEOPLE?

I'm no fan of the Soviet system, or Russia for that matter, but at least
they have something more than remotely generated pictures to show for all
their years of effort.  Maybe they *had* to, but they have kept *people* at
the forefront of their explorations, and I envy the hell out of what
they've done with Mir!  Can you IMAGINE what they could be doing with half
NASA's budget?  Can you IMAGINE what *we* could do with our technology if
we had half their moxey?

We could learn much about a "can do" attitude from *them*...and that burns
me up!  It's supposed to be US, damn it!  We are supposed to be the
explorers, the frontiersmen, the tinkerers that push beyond the possible
and do it against all odds with a "can do" attitude.  Arrgh! I'm going to
go kick a wall!

</rant>

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:40:51 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Ken's Chargen Tweak

Here's a quick little tweak for the list.  

Using this one, small rule change, the T4 chargen system becomes 100%
compatible with any CT or MT chargen system.  

In fact, it makes characters from any of the three rules sets (T4, CT,
or MT) completely interchangeable--including characters generated using
the CT or MT advanced chargen methods.

Remember how Mercenary or advanced Scout characters were so much better
than those created with the standard 4-year methods in CT and MT?  Are
you having to beef up CT and MT characters so that they are compatible
with the T4 characters?

Those problems are a thing of the past--and all you make is one little
chargen rule change.

======================================================================



I like T4's new concept of awarding one skill per year.  It gives
Traveller characters more skills and makes them more playable.  The
problem with this is that some T4 characters get to be too powerful and
end up having level 8+ skills straight out of chargen.

Another problem is the compatibility issue I mentioned at the top of
this post.  CT/MT 4-year basic characters were never compatible with
CT/MT characters created using the advanced chargen system,and neither
of these types of systems produce characters compatible with T4
characters.

To fix this, all you have to do is make skill awards the same in each
system.  Official rules state that CT/MT basic characters get one skill
per 4 years (or thereabouts--some get 2 skills per 4 years).  CT/MT
advanced characters get a chance to get a skill every year, if they make
the die roll.  T4 characters get a skill automatically, every year.

My chargen tweak, discussed below, will change all of this with one
simple die roll.

======================================================================

Ken's Chargen Tweak for T4

All you have to do to make T4 characters compatible with the CT and MT
systems is change the automatic 1 skill per year award to a die roll.

Each year, a T4 character gets a chance of a skill--if he makes his
skill roll.  This is exactly how it is handled in CT/MT advanced
chargen.

What is your target number?  Use the target number given in the skill
for enlistment (without using any of the DMs).

For instance, a Marine character goes 1 term of 4 years.  The GM will
give the player 4 rolls for a skill--1 roll for each year.

The enlistment number for Marine characters is 5- on 2D6.  The player
rolls 2 D6 four times.  Each time he rolls 5 or less, he gets a skill.

How did I come up with this number?  I did a weighted average
calculation for characters using the CT/MT advanced chargen
system--basically, I figured the average number a character would have
to roll against to get a skill, taking into account percentage chance of
a particular mission and the target number for a skill for that mission.

Amazingly, this comes out (for several different character classes)
close to the enlistment roll (without DMs) for each service.

So, in T4, just use the Enlistment number as a target number to obtain a
skill anytime skill elligibility comes up.

=======================================================================

Ken's Chargen Tweak for CT/MT Basic Characters.

Change the award from 1 skill per four years to 1 skill per year, and
roll the enlistment number just as described in the T4 section above.

This will produce characters compatible with T4 and CT/MT advanced
chargen characters.

======================================================================

CT/MT Advanced Chargen Characters.

No changes are needed.  These characters will be compatible with
T4/CT/MT basic characters using my tweak above.

=======================================================================

By using my Traveller chargen tweak, you now have several different
chargen systems for your players to choose from.

There are different skills available in different rules sets.  Also,
some careers are more generous with skill awards than other (EX: Army
characters have a higher target number than Marine characters).

This adds variety to your game.  You end up with more varied
characters--that are still compatible with each other.

You want to roll up a Marine character?  Will that be using the T4
Marine system?  Or, will that be the MT advanced system?  Or will that
be the MT basic system?  Or, do you want to use the system in CT Book
4:  Mercenary?  Or, do you want to use the basic method from CT?

Using any of these systems, with my tweak, will give you a Marine
character compatible, yet different, from a Marine character using
another system.

It's simple.  It works.  And it makes some of that old Traveller stuff
useful again in the era of T4.

Kenneth.


Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:50:55 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Gravity Advice

It is time for advice from some of you other GMs out there.

My group is about to land on Zila in the Aramis subsector of the
Spinward Marches.  Zila's gravity is .272 Gs.

How do you other GMs play this.  I have no problem figuring load,
encumbrance,and relative weight--I can do that with the G factor.

But, how do Zilan natives go anywhere else off planet.  How would a
Zilan native, who is used to .272 Gs, function on a plant of 1 G?

If my players pick up some passengers (let's say they are all Zilan
natives) from Zila, and the ship is set at a standard 1 G, how does this
effect the passengers?

Do the PC's look like supermen compared to the Zilan citizens when they
are on planet?

Somebody get my head in the right place for this, please!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:20:15 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: GURPRS Traveller Hardbacks

Just a followup to the post that I made some days ago --

What sort of physical product do you want for the GURPS Traveller product?

*I* would like to see something with glossy paper and colour illos throughout a
la "In Nomine" ... and/or a Hardcover version of the same as well.

Would this sort of product be financially viable? Will SJG consider it? Well, I
suspect that if they could do an outre project like Goblins in this sort of
format, that Traveller would be at least as likely a candidate.

So, what to do?

Well, email or write SJ Games and let them know what you want -- try their
general email address for Pyramid (Scott Haring, the Editor, is in charge of the
GURPS Traveller project as well) --

pyramid@io.com

And make sure that there's plenty of responses! Otherwise we'll get the same old
SJ Product which, while adequate, isn't all that awe inspiring to look at. And,
after the bad rep that T4 (thanks to IG) has gained in game stores, we need an
outstanding product to attract the new players that IG is unlikely to.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:20:04 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Duskir, Canon and Common Sense

Let's consider a few pertinent "facts" that have been presented in the course of
this argument --

1)  Vilani  immune  systems, as a result of having been in what some people have
claimed was a disease free environment for several hundred thousand years, are
almost totally unable to handle exposure to even harmless Terran bacteria, let
alone actual terran *diseases*.

2) There is no game mechanism to allow of racial Vilani characters to be more
susceptible to Terran diseases.

3) The population of "known space" at the end of the RoM was around 1000 billion
people (per a rough count of the Sector population as per "First Survey")  --
certainly more than this, probably significantly more (as not all the Sectors
that were part of the RoM are covered in First Survey). Allowing for those
areas that are not covered, we can reasonably assume up to half a thousand
billion more.

4) The Plague of Duskir killed around 1 billion people before a "cure" was
discovered, and was widely (though it is never explained *how* widely) spread
through the Ziru Sirka.

5) Terrans were not affected by the PoD.

These facts make some interesting conclusions inevitable.

Firstly, unless you propose some ridiculously high birth rate under the RoM
compared to that of the Ziru Sirka -- something for which there is absolutely no
justification (even allowing for the cloning that it, perhaps, had done in
Solomani & Aslan -- something that is, in itself, contrary to technological
canon -- as that was obviously a wartime measure which would not be justifiable
after the surrender of the  ZS) -- then it is reasonable to believe that the ZS
had a population of between half and one third of the First Survey value.

This means something on the order of a minimum of 350  billion to a maximum of
around 750 billion (and, for what it's worth, I  would personally suggest that
the value should  probably be closer to 2/3rds of the RoM totals ... or 650 to
1000 billion), that the death rate from the PoD was 0.3% at best, to 0.13% at
worst (or 0.1% if you assume a 1000 billion pre RoM population).

Fact 6) The Spanish Flu, *the* most lethal plague known to mankind throughout
recorded history, killed around 20 million of the planetary population in 1918
... 20 million out of around 1.2 billion, or about 1.6%!

Fact 7) Most people today would be completely unaware of either a) the existence
of the Spanish Flu or, b) its relative or absolute lethality.

The PoD killed 0.3% *at best* of the pre-RoM populace. We don't known how how
widespread it was, but there are hints that it and allegedly terran originated
diseases at the time indicate that it was *very* widespread.

Now, it seems that we really have several options that, regardless of which you
pick, contradict some of the elements that people claim are "canon" ... in other
words, canon is *going* to be contradicted, no matter which you choose. These
options are --

1)  Vilani  immune systems were 99% effective vs. Terran  diseases -- which
means that they  were so close to being identical as to have no real
differences. This meshes with the facts that there are, and have never been,
separate rules for the vulnerability of racial vilani to terran diseases in the
game system *and* that less than 1% of the Ziru Sirka's population died.

Claims to the effect that it is only because *current* Vilani are the
descendants of those Vilani that survived the PoD that there are no rules for
special disease vulnerability are obviously going to run up against the brick
wall of a 99% or greater survival rate of the *original* Vilani.

And claims that the Vilani were such a tiny minority of the populace within the
re-RoM Ziru Sirka obviously do not mesh in any way with the longevity and
tenacity of Vilani elements in Milieu 0 and 3rd Imperium society. Even claims
that Vilani culture supplanted that of locals forcibly brought into the empire
does not wash -- if *that* was the case(and I beg leave to doubt it was more
than a thin facade at best), then it would have been replaced even more totally
with Terran elements than it was.

2)Terran precautions, based on the long term contacts that the Interstellar Wars
represent, to minimise the impact of Terran diseases on a basically defenceless
Vilani populace (and non-Vilani minor races would be equally vulnerable for
reasons that have also been canvassedZ) must have been almost completely
successful. After all, 99% or more of the populace of the Ziru Sirka survived
unaffected by any diseases.

3) The PoD was basically a beat-up. The fact that it appears only in Solomani
and Aslan *and* is mentioned by "the authors" is, I would contend, immaterial
here. The facts are that the PoD killed less than 1% of the populace of the
Ziru Sirka, and that this is such a tiny amount that the alleged prominence is
immediately suspect.

I would quite readly agree that this was probably because the authors either a)
didn't have a clue, or b) couldn't be bothered to think things through with
what had already been published, or c) made a glaring error.

Personally, I think the only acceptable conclusion is probably b).

Given that they didn't think things through, then someone has to. We *know* that
less than 1% of the pre RoM populace of the ZS died, and we are *told* that some
*Vilani* scientists came up with a cure for the PoD. Since we are *also* told
that the Vilani medical tech was so poor, this seems unlikely -- so, for a
person who wants minimal changes to canon, it seems that we would have to
suspect that the story of who discovered the "cure" for a disease (and we are
actually  told that it was a constellation of unrelated diseases) that he had no
experience with, and using technology that he had no previous knowledge of or
access to must be just *possibly* a disinformation effort. It makes a lot more
sense than believing that some Vilani dude came up with the solution!

No, the *logical* solution has to be that the PoD was a minor event that  has
been given a going over and has been blown out of all proportion by *someone*
for their own purposes; purposes that have nothing to do with "reality", but
with the *manipulation* of reality.

Who could be behind such a campaign?

Given the primary source of info on the PoD and its alleged curer is in Solomani
and Aslan, it seems that it has to be either --

a) The Solomani, or

b) The 3rd Imperium, or

c) The Vilani within the 3rd Imperium.

I suppose that we *could* include a possible psychohistroy manipulation by the
Hivers, but it seems unlikely.

Lets look at them.

a) Why would the Solomani do it? There seems, on the face of it, to be more that
they would risk than gain. Possibly, though, it was for internal political
consumption to make a point about how ruthless they were in the "good old days"
and being aimed to prepare the people for some truly ruthless and despicable
move against the 3I. Gven what we know of the Solomani party, it seems possible.

b) The Third Imperium, why would they do it? They draw legitimacy from
their alleged descent from the RoM, and would hardly want to connect this with
some allegations of terrible crimes by the RoM or *its* predecesssors.
I suppose it is *barely* possible that the RoM used this beat-up as an excuse
for Estigaribbia's coup -- after all, he *claimed* that he was doing it to
protect the Vilani from mistreatment by the TC, in which case the 3I might allow
as it happened that way ... you  know, the glorious founder of the 2I was
fighting against the vile acts of his putative superiors, justifying his
otherwise illegal and unjustifiable acts (the coup).

c) The Vilani? Well, we know from published material that the ZS refounded
itself after the collapse of the RoM and had to be cajoled into the 3I ... so,
perhaps it is a case of Vilani racial loyalists trying to cast doubts about the
legitimacy of the origins of the now Terran dominated Imperium (socially if not
racially)?

Whatever is the case, I think its fairly obvious that the PoD is a beat up by
*someone* with an axe to grind, and bears as much relationship to reality as
Fairy Floss does to food.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:47:24 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> It is time for advice from some of you other GMs out there.
>
> My group is about to land on Zila in the Aramis subsector of the
> Spinward Marches.  Zila's gravity is .272 Gs.
>
> How do you other GMs play this.  I have no problem figuring load,
> encumbrance,and relative weight--I can do that with the G factor.
>
> But, how do Zilan natives go anywhere else off planet.  How would a
> Zilan native, who is used to .272 Gs, function on a plant of 1 G?
>
> If my players pick up some passengers (let's say they are all Zilan
> natives) from Zila, and the ship is set at a standard 1 G, how does this
> effect the passengers?
>
> Do the PC's look like supermen compared to the Zilan citizens when they
> are on planet?
>
> Somebody get my head in the right place for this, please!
>
> Kenneth.

 The natives of the planet would have to wear exo-skeletons or grav
harnesses of some sort to be able to function on heavier grav worlds.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:13:29 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Aslan

Moin CardSharks@aol.com,

> 	Although all clans are technically patriarchies, some afford a greater
> degree of clan power to females. Clan names beginning with a vowel are more
> female oriented.

	I would prefer the standart aslan, with womans holding the
	economical power at home while males are on journey to become
	rich and famous enough to become married by clan of women.

	Coming back with an Eakhau full of Anagathics and having
	a dozend womans for a time, until my instinct will drive
	me back to the stars, was allways my Aslani dream.

	I allways compared them a bit to the Irokese (wrong spelling)
	who where a matriachat because the warrios where sometimes
	over 1000 miles away, robbing Publos and even more south.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:01:52 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: 2300 background simulation

Moin GDWGAMES@aol.com,

> >I always wondered, who played France?
> 
> John Harshman.
> 
> I was Germany (fragmented for a while -- this required considerable
> schizofrenia on my part, as Bavaria was a French puppet for years, whereas
> the rest of Germany was at various times allied with or at war with France ).

	as most of current german economies are in the south France+Bayern
	would certainly a big player. BTW for us in the northern, a germany
	without Bayern and its bad right wing influence on politics, would
	be much nicer. If anybody would like to know how law level A feals
	visit Stuttgard or Muenchen with a freak or a african.

	You are standing on the wall every half hour, only because you dont
	look like as a german has to look.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:36:11 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

	About MIR: Dieter told me that MBB-Erno got the contract
	for the MIR life support, so I think this beast will be
	up and running for the next years.

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> Never forget that the US *had* a space station. Skylab. And between
> NASA and Congress, we piddled things away on the Shuttle program until
> it was too late to reboost it. If the Shuttle funding hadn't had games
> played with it, or if NASA had been willing to propose a "just in case"
> backup program that could've re-boosted Skylab if the Shuttle program
> wound up behind schedule (as it did) then we'd still have a Space
> Station. 

	IMHO: Space Shuttle is the most stupid thing in US space
	program. Because anythink goes up cost money, anythink going
	down (landing) is wasted money. The payload of the shuttle
	tender would make a space station a cheap side effect if
	the astronautes reenter athmosphere in a light drop capsule,
	while the rest is staying in orbit and mounted to a station.

By Michael
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:04:39 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: (fwd)

Moin Douglas E. Berry,

> I can see Pirate Pete holding his 5mm body pistol on the 36-ton Jump
> Drive.. "Back off, man, or I'll cause an interior explosin!!!!"

	we had a similar scene :

	After a fire exchange the players where in the engine room while
	a ling standard police robot 317 was in the cargo bay. The
	computer decidet to decompress the engine room slowly using the
	life support. Lutz managed his roll to become aware of this,
	before going asleep, and as they had vac suites they where
	secure for the next minutes. They decided to poker, and Eike
	hold her Plasma Rifle towards a weak point at the power plant,
	( average roll for experienced engineer ;-) and anounce that
	"we will all be dead soon if the life support dos'nt stop to
	decompress". As the ship was a prophet/puppetier and not a
	suicider, life support came back. BTW the computer disliked
	charging the engine room as the first fire exchange not only
	killed one PR317 but also the jump drives control console.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1821
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 14 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1822



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Replys [sic]
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: GURPRS Traveller Hardbacks
Re: Commentary
Mercenary Administrivia, Nukes and Imperial Interest Rates
Re:stuff
Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1819
Re: Commentary
Trade or Sell
Re: getting stuff done
Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)
Re: Commentary
Re: Trade or Sell
More Trade or Sell Stuff
Re: Jump in Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:17:01 -0600 (MDT)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

 
> No.  All it takes is one or two accidents with a fission-driven device 
> to convince a culture which has other options available that fission is 
> a BAD IDEA[tm].  Hell, look at the impact Chernobyle caused, and we 
> _don't_ yet have an alternative that's not eviromentally unpleasant and 
> partially dependant on nations run by unstable lunatics for the fuel.

Negative thermal coefficient, pellet-bed reactors.

Anybody that wants to pay for one can put it in my basement.
(I wish my basement (crawlspace, really) were that big :-)

- -MFB

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 06:29:49 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Replys [sic]

Moin Glenn M. Goffin, Esq.,

> > Hey, 0 goes into 1/1,000,000,000 an infinite number of times! I'd call
> > infinite "considerably greater". :-)
> 
> I guess it's true, then, that the lottery is a tax on people who aren't
> good at math.

	Its a typical kind of extra tax. E.g. in Bremen we have the
	"Buergerpark Tombola" financing the Buergerpark which is quite
	large (about 10% of state Bremen). The people are buying those
	lottery tickets not because the high chance of winning a new
	car or a pot of tomato ketchup, but because they used to buy
	a ticket anytime they are on market. A statistic sais that any
	in bremen is buying 3 tickets per month (1DM ~ 0.7$) and as Bremen
	has a population code of 5 and a modifier of also 6, this it a
	lot of money. Those money is not wasted in a tax for burocrathy
	but directly used for the park, people enjoy paing this extra tax
	much more.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 06:27:46 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:13:09 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> >> it does mean, for example, that a TL-20 internal combustion
> >> engine has approximately the same characteristics as a TL-8 internal
> >> combustion engine. You can reach a limit of improvement for any specific
> >> device independent of tech increases.
> >
> > I think I disagree with this.  Just think of the compression ratios you 
> > could achieve with bonded superdense engine blocks :-)
> 
> Anything past what it takes to cause compression ignition (like in a
> diesel) is wasted isn't it?

Interestingly put, but yes, this is true.  Diesels run compression
ratios in the neighbourhood of 18:1 while gasoline engines are closer
to 8:1 or 9:1.  High performance motors run higher ratios, but also
require fuel with gobs more octane to compensate.  Higher compression
ratios aren't really a "waste", exactly-- more like "counter
productive".

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:59:04 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: GURPRS Traveller Hardbacks

Phillip McGregor wrote:

> What sort of physical product do you want for the GURPS Traveller product?
> 
> *I* would like to see something with glossy paper and colour illos throughout a
> la "In Nomine" ... and/or a Hardcover version of the same as well.

Yes, but In Nomine's interior art, like a lot of GURPS art,is crap.

They've got this great, mysterious, grabbing, somewhat mystic cover for
In Nomine, and you turn inside to see comic book crap drawings.

They should have hired WW's Vampire artists to draw something really
creepy to go with the cover.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:30:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commentary

In a message dated 97-09-14 00:30:04 EDT, you write:

<< You wrote: 
 
 I generally extend profession courtesy and refrain from denigrating any 
 sort of servicemember in public, (read in front of civillians).  But 
 this is such a pompous and assinine statement I couldn't let it pass.  
 My apologies to the list for wasting bandwith having a word with this 
 fool.
 
My bad.  I guess we just have to overlook YOUR pompous and assinine
statements that follow...

 >I'm a REMF and quite proud of it.  Actually these days it's a more 
 
>> First sentence is good.  REMFs are important.  I wouldn't be much good 
 without the REMFs who fly me to the combat zone, do the paperwork so I 
 get my ammunition and demo and food, and tell me where the hell the bad 
 guys are.  Very important.  It falls apart after that.<<

Ahhhh, the eternal Grunt God Complex.
 
 dangerous
 >proposition to be in headquarters than it is to be a grunt.  I have to 
 
 Only if you have a problem with blood poisioning from papercuts.
 
 work
 >in a building stuffed with computers, the general, and all sorts of 
 very
 >important people.  I think it as one big bullseye with every cruise 
 
 >>Wow.  You might also have a heart attack when the O-8 in the building 
 asks why you're playing 'DOOM' on your expensive government computor.<<

Hmm, your ignorance of what goes on in a CP is astounding.
 
 missile
 >and LG bomb trained at it.  At least a grunt can duck or get under 
 
 >>Genius, other than the French, Brits, and a couple other NATO allies, 
 who the hell has that many LGBs?  And who has an Air Force that can 
 bull through the USAF's F-15 wings?<<

Uhhhh, everyone we are currently planning on fighting a war with....And it's
the nice little cruise missiles I'm sweating about.
 
 cover.
 > I'm afraid my SPARCsation will not give much cover from a cruise missile
 >slamming into my CP.
 
 >>OK, let's put what I do for a living out here. <<

DUCK!  Here comes the ego inflated account of a CE!
 
>> I'm a Combat Engineer.  I conduct assault breaches, which means 
 lowcrawling out into machinegun fire ahead of the infantry with 
 explosives or wirecutters strapped to my ass, and then I _stop_, and 
 breach the wire.  I've done it on MILES battlefields repeatedly, and 
 _never_ made it past the wire without that annoying 'screeeeeeeeee' 
 going of.  Which meant if the bullets were _real_, I'd be deceased.  
 And when I'm not doing that, I'm clearing land mines.  Now, compared to 
 that, your weenie 71L-sitting-at-a-workstation-sucking-your-thumb 
 bullshit just fails to impress.
 
 John M. Atkinson
 12B10 and damn proud of it >>

Nothing but respect for combat Engineers.  And for grunts in general.  But
this is the 20th century- The Era Of Precision Guided Munitions.  Heard of
'em?  I seem to remember a certain little schollyard scuffle in the Gulf
where we used a lot of those sorts of things on- you guessed it- the C3
network....
KLP

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:31:06
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Mercenary Administrivia, Nukes and Imperial Interest Rates

Lots of good stuff on regulation of mercenary units. Remember that the
Sylean Federation and later 3I were bureaucratic governments ... there is
going to be a lot of paperwork,and limited rights of waiver (unless you
have the appropriate Imperial authority).

Nukes are a touchy issue in the 3I. On one hand, fission power is very useful 
at TL9-11, due to the large minimum sizes of fusion power plants
(especially in
TTA/FFS2). On the other hand, the 3I is very very big on no-one but it having 
nukes. And if you have lots of radioactive fuel floating about to power all
those fission power plants in private hands, then far too many people have
access to 
material which could be refined to weapons grade.

Oh and you can absolutely forget det-lasers or mining nukes in private
hands. If
the Imperial Rules of War forbid the possession of nukes, then *all* nukes are
forbidden. If that means some belters have a harder time making a buck or some
civilians have to rely on the Navy for protection against pirates, so be it.

In my view, the net result would be the Imperial authorities encouraging
use of
fusion and (spit) Fission Plus rather than Fission technology. The main
method of
this would be very heavy safety paperwork for Fission power plants on
Imperial territory
(eg your neighbourhood starport - maybe an Average skill roll against the
lower of Admin and Engineering each time you enter a starport with a
fission power plant, to fill in the Request for Safety Cerification
correctly), and heavy taxation on radioactives travelling within Imperial
space (about KCr80 per cubic meter sounds about right).

Next, Imperial interest rates. The Imperium seems to me to be a
zero-inflation economy, with a very very hard Imperial credit ... kind of
like the British pound in the days of Empire (incidentally, someone talked
about wage-push inflation recently. Do the math - it only happens when you
drop the assumption that business acts in order to maximize profits. Which
one probably should do if one is trying to model a 20th century economy,
but that is another issue). I think about 3% is about right for zero-risk
investments, which means your average Free Trader will be paying about 6%
interest on borrowed money.

By the way, has anyone else wondered why Free Traders tie up all that
working cargo in a starship, rather than by buying the speculative cargo
and leasing the starship on a monthly basis ?

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:06:07 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:stuff

>
	Ease up Bro' the guys got his job and we have [ had ] ours . none
can work with out the other . personally I have alot of respect for the
Com. Eng. guys I seen them in action with thier acers in DS/DS and we
could not have cleared those bunkers so fast  and with such low
casualties with out those guys . you got to be pretty brave to crawl
around in a mine field with people are popping shots at you ..
	Of course all of this is unimportant if we do not have supplies
and logitics to support our actions and keep our bellies full so in
affect the lowlyest REMF is as important to victory in modern warfare as
any other MOS . except maybe infantry ;>) .
what I am getting at is every soldier has a right to be proud of what
they do . 
just my .02 creds

jim chip mckee
11M corporal [ ex ] 3rd bn. 7th inf. reg. 8 months desert shield and
desert storm .

>I'm a Combat Engineer.  I conduct assault breaches, which means 
>lowcrawling out into machinegun fire ahead of the infantry with 
>explosives or wirecutters strapped to my ass, and then I _stop_, and 
>breach the wire.  I've done it on MILES battlefields repeatedly, and 
>_never_ made it past the wire without that annoying 'screeeeeeeeee' 
>going of.  Which meant if the bullets were _real_, I'd be deceased.  
>And when I'm not doing that, I'm clearing land mines.  Now, compared 
>to that, your weenie 71L-sitting-at-a-workstation-sucking-your-thumb 
>bullshit just fails to impress.
>
>John M. Atkinson
>12B10 and damn proud of it
>
>------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:06:07 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad

>Also, (I just checked) Camp Pendelton and El Toro both recieved 50kt 
>gifts courtesy of the Strategic Rocket Forces.  Add the 1Mt drooped on
the 
>Navy base at San Diego, and there isn't much left of the US Military in 
>SoCal.
>- --

And of course there would be no resistance [ red dawn ] and all the
reserve , guard units would be in europe and asia . the leaving us open
for invasion . did the U.S. do this in WWII ? I thought there were home
guard units and other defense forces defending the nation at all times ?

look , I should not have attempted to interject reality into a game and I
did not mean to insult the french or any other nation in the world with
my opinions and thoughts . I will never buy into the U.S. main land being
invaded by a coalition of third world banana republics [ the caribbean ]
and I will never believe that the U.S war machine could be shut down buy
nuclear strikes against major population areas and training bases .
	In time of nuclear threat the major pop. centers would be on
alert and possibly evacuated . also most of the arms producing factories
have enough supplies in stock pile for years of total war . this goes
doubly for fuel , and in addition 98% of the fuel pumped in alaska goes
to the military reserves . also we [ the U.S ] have a few different
methods of protecting itself from ICBM attacks . such as the satellites
that launch metal rods into space to intercept the ICBM in space and
destroy it . also I remember reading about satellites that bombard
incoming ICBMs with micro wave which fry the circuitry and disable the
weapon .  third is the anti missile missile .
	this is tech that is up there , you can bet on it . also the fact
that soviet missiles are known for the unreliable nature and lack of
accuracy , it is odd that in T2000 every missile hit its distinction .
and lastly the boomers would have reduced mexico and the rest of the
invading nations to slag for the impunity . 
the U.S military trains for the nuclear theater [ I  know we did ] and I
assume all militaries do .[ comments ] that means the U.S. has
contingency plans for maintaining the infrastructure , national security
, and ability to wage war into the nuclear exchange .
yet in T2000 the U.S. is caught flat footed and defenceless . right and I
got a bridge to sell you . 
  
	I would like to know exactly how much thought and research went
into the background and probability but it looks a little thin to me .
also france staying out of a major war in europe ? no way . france is a
strategically important and central nation and would be forced into the
war . either to support NATO or by the soviet mediterranean fleet and
airdrops into strategic locations  in the hopes of cutting supply to NATO
forces . or maybe to preempt NATO operations . [ ex. nuking major
shipping ports . ect . ] of course this is all theory and I could be
wrong ..:>}


anyway , not trying to bust on anyone elses country or impose american
imperialism , just trying to support my point of view .


jim chip mckee
who was where the boom booms were in Iraq [ highway 8 objective red 1
obj. red 2 ]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:40:53 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

It depends on your view of how utopian the universe is, how easily 
lunatics with HEPLAR can ruin your whole day and so on.

"All it takes is one or two incidents with re-crysalised fertiizer used as 
explosives to convince a culture which has other options available that 
agri-chemicals are a BAD IDEA[tm]."  :-)

If the economic incentive is there, it is amazing what "risks" (real or 
otherwise) societies will tolerate.  On the other hand, BSE scares can run 
like wildfire through a country, so maybe I can see your point.

If fission is the power source of choice for TL 8 vehicles, why can't the 
Ine Givar go and buy some of those and ship them back to their target 
world for "re-use"?  The only way to stop this is if fission is only used 
for military items like submarines.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:18:01 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1819

John Macpherson 

I agree with John Macpherson. What does it matter what dice we used? I
invented a new combat system - and at one time used Laserburn. It was still
Traveller. I like the traditional Trav chrgen etc, but it's not essential.
So what is essential?

The background. The setting. The Fun!

By the way; a recent comment mentioned that the Imperium was never seen as
oppressive etc. Hmm... remember Adventure 1: Kinunir? References to
disappearing senators, political prisoners and civil rights violations. Of
cousre, the game setting was in its infancy, and under the influence of too
much Star Wars.
That angle quietly vanished in favour of the more open Imperium we now
remember it has always been.

This sort of thing happens when you publish a background without
playtesting it for a decade or so first - you find later on that some of
your initial assumptions are innappropriate. So you write around them,
explain them away, or quietly let them drop. 

The result is much the same anyway.

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:56:52 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Commentary

I am not a member of any armed service, but I'd like to remind people
that no matter what your position in the service is, you are important.
You all work as a "Team", and it takes that "team effort" to win wars
and complete missions.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:06:08 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Trade or Sell

Popping through my looking game store today, I spied a copy of CT's
Supplement 1:  1001 Characters.

I already have this, but it was low priced, so I grabbed in case anybody
on the TML would like it.  I know I don't see that many CT items often.

For those of you who are not familiar with this, 1001 Characters
supplement you can use to roll up a quick NPC in the middle of a game. 
The book is sectioned into chapters, and there are sections for Navy,
Marine, Army, Scouts, Merchants, and Other character types.  You random
roll, and there, at your finger tips, you have a quickie NPC with one
die roll.

There are also lists for Encounters, for GMs who are using encounter
charts.  There's a table for army patrols, policemen, and two tables for
thugs.  

The very last of the book details 9 NPCs taken from popular sci-fi
literature.

I use my copy of the book for my T4 campaign all the time--when I'm in a
pinch for a quick character, and there is no real problem using this
book for T4 eventhough it was published for CT.

I bought the book for $7, and I'll send it to anybody who is interested
in it for that same price plus a buck for postage (or whatever it costs
if you are overseas).

Or, I'll trade for something I need in my collection.  

I need a bunch of things, but what comes to mind right now is the
Imperial Fringe adventure, Supplement 7:  Trader's and Gunboats, and the
Undersea Environment by Gamelords.

I'm sure I can think of other things I need (Like Adjutant supplements),
so if you have duplicates of things in your inventory you are willing to
part with, contact me in private.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:44:50 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

At 04:10 PM 9/13/97 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:

>>At 12:27 AM 9/13/97 PST, you wrote:
>>>In mail you write:

>>>And while the backup might have been a bit hard to sell, they could
>>>have had a secondary purpose for it. ("If, as we expect, the Shuttle is
>>>on schedule, then we can use this to do X")

>>NASA did have the capacity to reboost Skylab (there was at least one gantry,
>>one Saturn V and a couple of Saturn I's left over from the Apollo program).

>Sorry, but that's wrong. At the time they *had* to re-boost it, they
>didn't have anything that could do it. The Saturn rockets had been
>turned into lawn displays....

>They bet it all on the Shuttle being ready in time, and lost.

Sorry, but up till at least the late 80's NASA did have one Saturn V sitting
around unused and unallocated (and not turned into a gigantic piece of lawn
furniture). For a while they even considered selling it off to private
enterprise. But they held on to it for 'contingencies'. What killed Skylab
was that at the time nobody understood just how dangerous a solar flare
maximium could be. Firstly nobody expected that Skylab was in any danger, then
when it became obvious that it was coming down, nobody anticipated just how
fast it would come down. There was only about three months between finding
there was a problem and Skylab splattering all over the outback. Not enough
time to plan a mission, let alone get congress to approve funding! One must
remember that Skylab was never intended to be a permanent station. I think
from memory it's expected life was three years, and like Mir it was a cobbled
together mismash of bits. And Skylab had its fair share of problems during
it's operational history (failed solar panels, a serious overheating
problem).

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:45:00 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)

A lot has been said about the weakness (or lack thereof) the Vilani immune
system. I was the person who apparently first postulated this so let me
expalin why the at the time of contact the Vilani immune system *has* to
be weaker than the Terran. This is not taken from Traveller 'canon', this
is taken from hard science. If Traveller is to be a 'hard science' game, then
the Vilani *must* have had a weaker immune system. Anything else means totally
ingoring our current knowledge on both the immune system and evolution.

It might help to give a quick run down on just how the human immune system
works. Firstly the human immune system is not in fact a 'system' in the
strict biological sense. It is in fact a set of complex biochemical
interactions between a number of different types of cells. As we understand it
now, the immune system is comprised of 3 distinct groups of cells (Phagocytes,
T type lymphocytes and B type lymphocytes). This is how the immune sytem works:

Phagocytes constantly patrol the blood stream looking for material that is
'foreign' to the body (these are the cells that cause organ rejection). They
respond by attempting to 'devore' the offending material and releasing a
chemical which causes a Helper T cell to come and investigate. Phangocytes
are perfectly adequate for most inorganic materal (though some like asbetos
can cause them problems) but are unable to destroy cells fast enough to cope
with an organic invasion, since they cannot identify what they are attempting
to 'devore' they call a helper T cell which will activate the immune response
if a pathogen is present.

There are several million types of helper T cells, each one 'trained' to
identify a particular disease organism. These helper T cells are one of the
wonders of evolution. As far as we can tell, we are born with the capacity to
produce helper T cells which can identify any disease organism any of our
ancestors have survived (this is the key to inherited immunity); more than
this, if none of our helper T cells can identify a pathogen, the thymus (where
the helper T cells 'live') can 'train' cells to identify the new pathogen (we
have not an incling how they do this). The helper T cells bind themselves to
the Phagocytes which has 'devored' a foreign organism. If the Phagocytes has
not encoutered the specific pathgen the helper T cell recognises nothing
happens, but if the helper T cell does regonsise the pathogen all hell breaks
lose. In this case the helper T cell detaches from the phagocyte and rushes
to the spleen and lymph nodes. These release a chemical which causes the brain
to raise the body temperature (increasing the immune cells effectiveness). The
helper T cell stimulates the B cells in the spleen to start production of
killer T cells and antibodies.

The antibodies and killer T cells rush to the site of the infection. The
antibodies binds themselves to the previously identified pathogens, marking
them, slowing them down, rendering them unable to attack healthy cells (in
the case of viruses), and allowing other chemicals produced by the body to
attack and destroy the pathogens. Meanwhile the killer T cells indentify
foreign or infected cells (we don't know how they do this either) and attack
and destroy them.

Somehow (again we don't know how) the helper T cells are able to detect when
the infection has been defeated. At this point they instruct some of the
B cells to start production of suppressor T cells. These T cells cause the
B cells to slow down production of antibodies and killer T cells, allowing
the body to return to it's pre-infection state and preventing the a runaway
immune system from destroying the body.

Now while all this is happening the B cells will produce a 'few' memory T
cells. These T cells remember the chemical signature of the pathogen and
continue to float around in the blood stream for years. If they ever
encounter the pathogen again they short cut the immune response and allow
the body to respond several orders of magnitudes faster. It's these cells
which are responsible for immunities gained after birth. The difference
between these cells and helper T cells is numbers. Whilst we may have a few
helper T cells capable of identifing measles, if we ever catch measles we
will have many many more memory T cells capable of identifing measles. Thus
while we produce a helper T cell which can identify measles, we can still
'catch' measles; but if we have a memory T cell which can identify measles, we
will not 'catch' measles.

Innoculations (vaccinations) work by fooling the helper T cells into believing
that a serious infection is underway with the goal of producing memory T cells
for the specific pathogen being innoculated against. (Note: one can
innoculate against both viruses and bacteria).

Okay, so what does all this mean for the Vilani? Firstly they have not
enocuntered any pathogen that has evolved on Terran since they were removed.
This means they will not have helper T cells for virtually all current Terran
diseases, thus making their immune response slower and less efficent. Sure
they may have helper T cells for a few pathogens the Terrans have never
encountered; but nothing like the number of new pathogens that have evolved
on Terra in the past 300,000 years. However, those who survive the first
onslaught of a particular Terran pathogen or who are innoculated against it
will pass on helper T cells to the decendants. Also interbreading between
Terrans and Vilani will further spread the vital helper T cells. Any Vilani
who has a Terran anywhere in their ancestory will have access to the vast
Terran 'library' of helper T cells.

Secondly; simple genetics means that individuals are born with immune response
systems of differing levels of effectiveness. On Terra those individuals with
weaker systems are more likely to die and thus less likely to pass on their
weaker immune system to their decendants. Thus on Terra, the human immune
response will slowly get more efficent. However on Vland, those individuals
born with weaker immune responses are no more likely to die and therefore
just as likely to pass on that weaker immune system. Therefore random genetic
mutation on Vland means that their immune system will gradually get weaker.
This ignores the fact that since the immune response system is so energy
intensive, those individuals on Vland with weaker immune responses actually
are *less* likely to die and *more* likely to pass on their genes.

Therefore common sense tells us that the Vilani have to have had an immune
response system noticeably less effective than the Terrans when the first
contacted them. Realistically no other conclusion is possible. If canon states
this is not the case, then canon is simply flying in the face of scientific
reality.

So, putting it altogether, without massive outside intervention (and I am
talking a truely massive intervention), when the Vilani encounter the Terrans
with their vast host of accompanying pathogens, there will be a very dramatic
'culling' of the Vilani. The only way to prevent this is a innoculation
programme unlike anything ever before. However, since the effectiveness of
innoculation is totally dependant on the effectiveness of the individual's
immune response; many Vilani will still fall victim to the first onslaught
of Terran diseases.

Now assuming this innoculation programme is maintained over many generations
of Vilani, the Vilani immune response will slowly increase through evolutionary
selection and interbreeding with the Terrans (this is the major factor) to
the point where it is as effective as the Terran.

Some canon points to support this are: all the CT essays on the Solomani
Terrans) mention that interbreeding has essentially merged the Vilani and
Solomani throughout most of the Imperium. Other essays tell us that the
Vilani have essentially ceased to exist as a seperate genetic race, existing
only as a cultural grouping within the Imperium.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 06:48:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commentary

Yeah, but we can still bitch.  :) 
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 03:41:42 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

I'll photo copy my Traders and Gunboats and send it to you if you have
"Solomani Rim", "Merchant Prince" or any alien modules that you would do
the same for me.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 06:28:37 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: More Trade or Sell Stuff

I bought three other out of print items at my local game store today,
which are duplicates for my collection.

I will sell these to anybody interested for the price I paid for them
($9 each) plus postage.

Or, I'd like to trade for things I do not have in my collection.

These three items are the Seeker 25mm deck plans.  All three are in
fantastic shape and have never been used.  The plans are still stapled
inside the supplement.

I've got plans for:

400 ton Lab Ship (Includes 40 ton Research Pinnance)

400 ton System Defense Boat (Includes attaching Jump Shuttle)

400 ton Subsidize Merchant  (Includes 20 ton Launch)



Each plan includes a referee's overview of each deck deck on a single
page, commentary sections on the craft (discussions on operating the
craft, variants, etc.), a short story focussing on the craft,outer
side/top/rear/front views of the ship, and a cross section drawing
showing deck height and relative human size.

Oh yeah, don't let me forget.  The main part of each supplement are the
25 mm deck plans.  The plans are highly detailed (not like those yucky
plans in Starships) showing chairs, computer consoles, hatches,
drives--in short,everything aboard the ship.

There's also a page that you can photocopy/cut/fold/paste for figures if
you don't have minitures or card board counters.

Since my group uses a Subsidized Merchant, I use my set of deck plans
all the time.  It is nice to pull them out on a moment's notice when you
need detailed information on the inner workings of the ship.



If you have items you want to trade for these, or if you want to buy
them, contact me by private e-mail.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:18:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

In mail you write:

>> There will be two main effects.  One is that you need to get to
>> 100 diams to jump.  The second is when the stars of the origin
>> or destination systems are in the way (The odds of invervening
>> systems blocking are miniscule).
>
> I'm not sure I agree with this. It's always been implied that jumps
> go 'around' any obstacles (stars, planets, Zhodani battleships, etc),
> ie that objects in realspace don't intrude into jumpspace. There are
> no misjump modifiers for the number of systems you pass along the
> way.  The exceptions to this are exit from and entry to jumpspace -
> you can't leave or (safely) enter j-space within 100d.

I don't have a problem with the idea that "gravity wells" intrude into
J-space. Or that running into one can drop you out of j-space. After
all, you can't "see" anything outside your jump bubble. Assuming that
transit time between any two "wells" is always a week is no more of a
stretch than having jumps always be a week is anyway.

And it actually makes a *little* sense that there has to be *some*
connection between j-space and n-space. If there wasn't, we'd have no
way of getting there.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1822
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 14 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1823



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: Fusion
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Vilani & Vargr
Re: Commentary
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: Fusion
Big handguns and fighting in starships
Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD) (long)
Re: Fusion
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Gravity Advice
Re: Explosive Question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:04:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

In mail you write:

> Some industries are just more difficult to enter than others: we all can't 
> build oil refineries in our backyards, or develop O/Ses to compete with 
> M$.  Another example is radio stations, which anyone could probably do, 
> but the FCC requires massive licensing fees for band choice, etc.

Actually, you *can* get into broadcasting cheaply. But you have to be
willing to limit your range to your neighborhood. "Carrier Current"
broadcasting requires about a grand for the transmitter, and a modest
fee for the license. 

> Then there is the social concern about folks running around with heavy 
> weapons...  Which I've never understood.  "An armed society is a polite 
> society."  If we all had tomahawk missiles, who'd want to be first to 
> launch?  (Ooops, I think I may have just started another MAD-war thread.)

Well, we have the bad example of the "mob" with tommyguns back in the
20s. That's what *started* all the gun regulation stuff.

> "conveniences"?  Vac suits fall into this category.  Having never had to 
> catheterize myself in any fashion (the hospital was always nice enough to 
> wait until I was under general anesthetic to do so for me), I can imagine 
> that this might take a while; and probably make the suit a lot more 
> uncomfortable to wear if ignored and not done prior to donning it...

For males, you use an *external* catheter. This is essentially a
*heavy* condom with some adhesive to help hold it on. It has a tube
running from a resevoir at the tip to the waste connection. *Much*
easier to put on. 

And given lube and training, it takes all of about a minute to insert
an internal cath. Women have it a bit easier, as their urethra is a lot
shorter, and pretty much a straight shot (none of the bends that making
putting a cath in a male so tricky).

The "fun" part is dealing with the "solid waste". In space suits, the
best we have so far are diapers (disposable diapers are a spinoff of
the space program!)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:08:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Fusion

In mail you write:

> On 09/12/97 at 10:59 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
>>Sorry, but even in a fusion reactor the plasma is pretty thin. The hot
>>plasma is low density, so *it* will cool off without seriously heating the
>>surroundings. That's one of the reasons you need to use magnetic fields,
>>to keep the plasma from cooling off by contacting the walls of the
>>reactor.
>
> Yeah, the way we design/propose designing fusion reactors today you're
> right.  Given the strong reliance on gravitics, though, I wonder if maybe
> fusion reactors might be designed to run at much higher pressures with much
> lower temperatures.  Could they use gravitic focusing to maintain the
> higher plasma density?  (Lower temperature is relative, of course.;-)

That'd take a *lot* of gravity. And then you'd have to turn around and
negate it to keep the structure of the reactor from *flowing* under the
pressure due to gravitational stress.

And it would appear that 6 g is the most that can be generated...

>>And the ship *won't* explode if you breach the fusion bottle. 
>
> Yeah, but if the fusion bottle is breached then the energy *extraction*
> system is probably breached too, and *that* might be a spectacular
> explosion. ;->

Depends on *how* you extract it. Since the "topping" cycle is likely to
be MHD, breaking it won't be *that* spectacular.

> What about extraction of useful energy from a fusion reactor, ie how do you
> turn all the heat and gamma radiation into electricity?  Just how will be
> done with Traveller technology, and at what efficiencies?

Well, as with most power plants, you'll likely have several stages. the
"topping" cycle works with the highest temp "working fluid" and thus
has the highest efficiency. Then you can have one or more secondary
extraction cycles that work off the "low" temperature exhaust of the
topping cycle. 

I figure MHD would be best for running hot plasma thru. You'd also run
some sort of coolant thru the reactor walls to carry off the heat from
absorbed gamma rays and the like. That could go thru a conventional
steam turbine type cycle. 

And the "low end" cycle could be heating the LH2 and running a turbine
off the resulting hydrogen gas.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:23:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

In mail you write:

> Traveller Solution Series #1:
>  
>  
>   Computer Architecture - The "Stempel" Architecture
>  
>  
> --The "problem" statement--
>  
>   This Computer Architecture is designed to allow a referee freedom
>   in dealing with issues that may be beyond their ability to cope with
>   all of the ideas and/or assumptions of what the future evolution of
>   Traveller's timeline may bring.
>  
>   Many players are biased by the simple times in which we currently
>   live, having lived through a rather phenomenal time period in which
>   the development of computers proceeded at a rather rapid rate.
>  
>   Few could forsee, even in their own lifetimes, the limited usefulness
>   of the von Neumann (architecture) machines which they were most familiar.
>  
>   Consider the following sample dialog:
>     
>     Ref: "The Zhodani seneschal has given you the integrated library
>           data software/database."
>     Plr: "I make a backup copy."
>     Ref: "You can't copy the software. It is designed to grow and learn
>           from its interaction with you. Besides, if you could just copy
>           the software, you could pirate all the software on the ship's
>           computer. I can't allow that."
>     Plr: "It is all just 1's and 0's, there is no magic to the process. I
>           should be able to store the program on disk, copy it, and run it
>           as many times, from the beginning, as I want to. I just need to
>           setup a Virtual Machine, set the execution steps to monitor the
>           progress of the program, and if something changes, I'll know it."
>  
>   The point is here that the referee's lack of understanding of just what
>   really is possible with a computer, based upon present-day understandings,
>   lead to a complete and total distraction to the issue at hand, which is
>   having fun playing Traveller.

Actually, I can see situations where the ref is *right*, but for the
wrong reasons. It's possible, and even *likely*, that a lot of what we
consider "software" will be closer to the ROM-paks used in games. Sure,
you can copy it. But it isn't worth the trouble.

Or they may have solved the piracy problem by having all computers have
a "hardware serial number" (more like a PGP signature). In which case,
your software won't *run* on another system without the manufacturer
"re-keying" it to the new system.

Take a combination of the two and you have the computers from S.M.
Stirling's "Draka" timeline. Where keeping the system from being
compromised is the single most important design criterion.

These are possible, but "simpler" answers than your "Stempel
architecture". And what little we can forsee of quantum computers makes
things *really* messy.

Finally, there are computer OSes that already exist where you the OS
won't *let* you backup up software flagged as "no copies allowed". And
they have access restrictions on files as well. Unlike MS-DOS, these 
are built in at the OS level. Combine such an OS with protected mode
hardware, and the only way to "crack" things is with custom equipment
built *specifically* for the purpose of violating security. 

The existing OSes that do this aren't on secure hardware, so by use of
some ASM trickery, you can create things like sector editors so you can
crack the protection. On hardware with "protected" mode, the OS doesn't
allow this. Add encryption, with the key in the OS, and you are going
to have special hardware and software such as I mentioned above.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:35:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Vilani & Vargr

You wrote: 
>
>Today I found a copy of DGP's Vilani and Vargr at a local used book 
store.
>It is in excellent condition. I already have a copy, but I thought 
someone
>on the list might be interested so I picked it up. Was I right? Is 
anyone
>on this list interested?
>
>Joseph Dietrich
>yikes@evansville.net
>
>"The Internet is an electronic asylum full of babbling loonies." 
(--Mike
>Royko)
>"Woo-hoo-woo-hoo-woo-hoo!" (--Daffy Duck)
>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:44:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Commentary

You wrote: 
>
>Yeah, but we can still bitch.  :) 
>Ken
>

You get any military and a civillian together, and the military will 
band together against the civillian.  

You get members of all four services together, and the other three will 
band together against the Air Force.

You get just Army personell together, and the combat arms will split 
vs. the REMFs

You get just combat arms together, and Combat Engineers are the odd man 
out.  

Doesn't stop us from working together when we need to (had fun working 
with a bunch o' Infantry this summer.  We _both_ came away convinced 
the other was a bunch of suicidal lunatics. . . )

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:54:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

You wrote: 

>Oh, my!  Ya'll have hit one of my hot buttons!
>
><rant>

It's one of my pet peeves.  But putting up a manned station is not 
something I'd like to see done wrong.  I'd have been much happier if 
the damn thing were already up, and it could have been.  But I'd rather 
see it done right than done tomorrow.

One of the saddest things I've ever read about was an incident a few 
years ago when one of the Apollo astronauts was given a 
NASA-cheerleading speech once, and a college student stood up and ask, 
"Sir, is there any chance of the United States achieving the goal, in 
_my_ lifetime of putting a man on the moon and returning him safely to 
Earth?"  And the answer is basically, no.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:22:56 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

Actually, I believe the Ref may be correct.  Software as advanced as
that used in the traveller universe would encode itself on a randomly
rotating fractal encryption alogrythm perhaps every few seconds.
Remember, it's self-evolving, therefore has some measure of control over
it's own copy protection process.  Software such as runs Navigation and
Weapons and other crucial programs (especially aboard military ships),
needs to be protected from simple tampering such as downloading and
altering.  Otherwise what's to stop enemy computers from uploading
viruses or tapeworms, etc over the communications channel and thereby
subverting the starship's main computer system?

It's been stated that the Ref involved doesn't have any knowledge of
advanced computer systems, and that's why he made his ruling.  I
disagree.  Anyone with sufficient knowledge of advanced computer systems
would inherently understand that 'software' of the Imperium is not only
extremly hard to copy (if not impossible), but that it may also use
aggressive copy protection methods based on artificial intelligence.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:31:06 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

Actually, there doesn't need to be any connection with Jump-space and
normal space.  Jump Drives (unless I'm mistaken) create a temporary
portal into the realm of hyperspace (5th dimension).  Since space and
time are not coherent in this realm, the ship then plots a
planar-navigational grid of reference points which connect points in
normal space.  The travel time from point to point in hyperspace is
instantaneous, however in the einsteinian universe, a matter of time has
passed.

Since matter also has no coherency in hyperspace, gravity wells would
not affect ships in transit.  The ship itself would employ powerful
magnetic shielding to prevent being dis-assembled on the atomic level
once it entered the realm of hyperspace.

The energies involved in tearing space open to the hyperspatial
dimension would explain the need for doing so a certain distance from
any gravity well, otherwise you would de-stabilize stars or destroy
planets.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:33:41 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Fusion

I figure MHD would be best for running hot plasma thru. You'd also run
some sort of coolant thru the reactor walls to carry off the heat f

I remember a time when no one knew what a Magneto Hydro-dynamic
generator was.  Do you realize russia as been running 2 or 3 for years
now?  The US is starting their very first one in the northwest in
Washington, soon.  (as far as I know it's the only one on US soil).

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:39:38 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Big handguns and fighting in starships

I read an article a few years back about Huge Handguns (or Munchkin
Detectors if you like).

There was a feature about an Australian bush ranger (6 foot 6+ and built to
match), who carried no rifle but an Express .600 revolver. He'd fired it
often enough to be familiar with it (and the kneeling fire position it
required) - and asserted that, 'yes, it really will stop a charging
buffalo!' Scary.

I assume that the reason security patrols aboard supercarriers etc carry
shotguns in something to do with not wanting to penetrate the inner walls
(no chance of damaging a bulkhead). I assume spacecraft have similarly
flimsy internal partitions covering vital machinery. But CSA (common sense
applies). Small-calibre handguns and smgs, especially those firing plastic
'safety' ammunition designed to reduce penetration (e.g. glaser), shotguns
and such weapons are not going to do much more than damage the walls.
Consoles, however....
	
A single Gauss needle is so unlikely to do any major damage - i.e. anything
that can't just be left for routine maintenance - that it's irrelevant.

But since some boarders like to use Battledress (this is fairly uncommon
outside military actions, and I'd imagine that heavy bulkheads in the
regions likely to be boarded, protected cabling etc would be standard on a
military hull), there might be a reason for firing LAGs, laser rifles and
heavy weapons inside a starship. Other than wanting to die, that is.

I'd divide boarding weapons into these categories:

Negligible Risk: Spectacular failure might damage something fragile, but
don't worry about it.
Weapons such as body pistols, normal handguns and smgs, shotguns, bows,
rifles firing 'shipboard plastic ammunition, etc. I.e. weapons with little
penetration, or altered to have less than usual.

Minor Risk: Automatic rifles, lasers, frag grenades, gauss rifles. Any
missed shot might require a 'catastrophe roll' if the referee feels the
situation to be appropriate. Weapons will chew up rather than destroy the
target system, thus causing less damage than:

Major Risk Weapons: LAGs, 30mm machine-guns, RF gauss weapons, explosives.
Any shot not stopped by an absorbent target (read: living body) WILL
proceed onwards and possibly break something, Whatever is hit will be at
least badly damaged. Doom-death-munchkins will note the maximum damage
rules - most of these weapons will come out the back of an unarmoured
target and THEN break something else!

'Maniac' weapons: Autocannon, Heavy explosives, plasma weapons.
Any discharge is going to damage SOMETHING, even if the target is hit.
Firing Plasma in Engineering or Bridge areas is just not on. But some
nutter will no doubt try it.

If you want a table, try this one I just made up:

Target: (2D)
2-3 Vital System with immediate dangerous result (Life Support, Weak Hull
Area, Fuel pipes)
4-5 Important but non-vital system (Backups controls, Computer backup
memory)
6-7 Impressive cosmetic damage (Wall paneling, Captain's dress uniform)
9-10 Expensive but 'irrelevant' item (Luggage, Cargo, Ship's Cargo Bot)
11-12 Vital system, probably without immediate result (but bad news all the
same): (Control Consoles, Control Wiring, Drives)


Damage: Roll 1D, add number of dice damage weapon does after first
subtracting any armour value assigned to walls, etc:

1-3: Slight dent, hole etc.
4-6 System looks worryingly damaged, but is easily fixed.
7-8 System is degraded in performance and needs minor repairs
9-10 System is severely degraded (50% chance  failure is complete). Major
repairs required.
11-12 System is knocked out but repairable. Major repair job.
13+ System is destroyed. Backups may still function.

A normal partition wall might be given a value of 2?

The referee must choose appropriate system from those likely to be present
in the combat area, or along a line of fire from there. Common Sense
Applies.

This sort of thing can be great fun - Pirate Petrov looses off an ACR-10
down a corridor towards the open bridge valve. Astrogator Tim dives aside.
4D of damage (doubled to 8 for autofire by a sadistic referee) slams into
bridge machinery. Referee rolls 1D and gets a 5. That's 13 - something is
destroyed on the bridge.(Which could include expendable 'extras' but not
PCs). Players tense up as the ref rolls for system hit - a 7! The captain's
coffee mug is shattered, the Emperor's portrait gains another nostril, but
the damage is cosmetic. (The effects of a mugful of Platimun Blend down the
Nav console are up to the referee's sick imagination). The crew return fire
carefully, painfully aware of the open Engineering valve behind Petrov
(what a bunch of idiots. Perhaps they deserve to get their Jdrive shot up!)

Now we have a problem appearing for characters - whether use heavy AP
weapons or lighter antipersonnel ones for boarding - you can't smash up
fuel pipes with a shotgun, but you can't stop battledress either.

I'd imagine that by TL 12, propellants would be cleaner, thus sidestepping
the 'indoor firing range' effect we all love so well. But what of a
boarding using Black Powder weapons. Now that's be fun! Two shots and the
ship's full of acrid smoke!

Alternatively, so far as normal boarding goes, I'd say it would be possible
to ignore the effects of 'minor' weapons unless someone messed up badly,
and only worry about heavy overpenetrating or explosive rounds. The effects
could be 'guesstimated' by simply rolling 2D and adding the weapon's damage
number.Anything over about 10-12 is serious, anything over 18 is
potentially catastrophic - say someone caps off a body pistol. Ref ignores
potential damage as trivial. A Laser Rifle? Ah. Roll 2D and add damage
rating of 7. Roll is a 7 = 14: something is damaged. Referee makes
something up. Or uses my table, above.

Of course, this does not take into account deliberate close-range damage
using guns, such as firing a handgun directly into a console or fuel feed. 

Ricochets and unaimed spray fire:

In the situation where an SMG burst ricochets from a bulkhead, or someone
shoots though a partition wall with armour-piercing ammo at someone they
can't see but guess is there, I turn the situation on its head and ask
characters to roll NOT to be hit.

A character's 'luck' is the sum of his/her highest physical stat (STR, DEX,
END), plus highest skill number. Roll luck as a task NOT to be hit -
Average for a couple of shots fired through concealment such as a bush or
thin wall, or a ricochet situation. Difficult for a burst, Formidable for
Rapid-fire. Failure means that the character has been hit for half damage.
Spectacular failure is full damage.

Thus it is possible to target someone who you can't see but who might be
behind that bush. He will gain armour protection from the
wall/bush/cardboard box as appropriate. The firing character can use half
his weapon or all his Forward Observer skill to estimate the shot, and
deducts this from the target's chance of NOT being hit.

EG: Gunner Bob dives past the open cargo hold valve. Pirate Petrov sees
him, but can't turn in time. Instead he guesses where Bob will be and
sprays his rifle through the internal partition. Petrov has Rifle -3, so
subtracts 2 (rounding up) from Bob's chance to avoid damage. Bob's luck is
given by his END of 9 and his Sensors skill of 3. Thus his target is 9+3-2=
10. Petrov fired a burst, so the roll is Difficult. 2 1/2 dice give a total
of 11. Bob is hit. But first the ref rolls for damage to systems within the
wall. A 7 gives cosmetic damage only - the wall is chewed up pretty bad,
but that's it. Bob is granted 2 points of armour for the thin partition
wall, and takes half damage from the random burst. That's 4-2 dice, halved
for blindfire, doubled for auto fire - 2D. Bob takes a couple of hits. He
brilliantly returns fire through the still substantially intact wall,
firing a single shot from his 2D autopistol. The ref knows this can't
penetrate a 2-armour-point wall, so demands a ricochet roll. Bob's luck is
12 (it's not reduced by damage). It's a single shot, so difficulty is
Average. Bob rolls 2 sixes - spectacular failure! The round comes straight
back and hits him for 2D (full damage on a spectacular failure, half
otherwise). Bob takes more damage and passes out.

Next round, Petrov hoses more ammo through the wall rather than leap into
the bay and be ambushed by Bob (He thinks). The ref rolls some dice but
ignores the result, leniently ruling that Bob has suffered enough, and
being unconscious, can't be hit. A sadist might roll to hit anyway, with
Bob's unconscious body being further mangled by blindfire. But this
referee, unlike me, isn't a sadist.

Blindfire like this can be great fun - players don't know whether their
target is hit or not. It's not so difficult to run, either. I sometimes
have players trying to set up ricochet shots using internal sensors,etc.
Anything rather than face a stand-up gunfight.

Guns, after all, are dangerous.

But only in the wrong hands (ie everyone else's)

Hope this might be some use:
Martin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:25:44 -0400
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@pinn.net>
Subject: Re: The USA as depicted in Traveller: 2300 (AD) (long)

Glenn Hoppe wrote:
> 
> On 1997-09-10 20:24, Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@pinn.net> wrote the
> following:
> 
> >BTW, Harold made an interesting point about the multinationals.  long
> >with our lawyers, they are the ones interested in world (cultural)
> >domination.  But what's wrong with that.
> 
> I really really really hope this was sarcasm.
> 
> There is a lot wrong with popular culture.

Yes.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:13:35 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Fusion

At 11:08 PM 9/13/97 PST, Leonard wrote:

>And it would appear that 6 g is the most that can be generated...

I'd argue that 6g is the most that can be *compensated* due to the needs to
adjust the ship's fields to provide a constant, livable enviroment.  I've
designed a few missiles with 30g Thruster plates...

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:56:21 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 06:09 PM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote:

><< By 1998 they're in South Korea... remember, the US is involved in a total
> war when the strategic exchange occurs, and only after that happens does
> the whole Civil War/Mexican invasion happen.
> 
>Probably a goodly presence in the Gulf too if that's the case then.  Just to
>be realistic.

I think most of the Atlantic Fleet Marines ended up in the Gulf, with the
exception of the one Regiment that landed in Latvia.
 
><<Also, (I just checked) Camp Pendelton and El Toro both recieved 50kt gifts
> coutesy of the Strategic Rocket Forces.  Add the 1Mt drooped on the Navy
> base at San Diego, and there isn't much left of the US Military in SoCal. 
>
>Double ouch.  I'm stationed at El Toro too.  Always nice to know us
>"lazy-assed REMF wingers" are such a high priority for being made into self
>lighting glass parking lots.  Oh well, Pendletons a little pesthole anyway :)
> Probably looks much better made of glass.....

Heh.  Last month when my wife and I were driving home from San Diego, we
passed through Pendelton.. I was driving when she asked me what the
vehicles at the side of the road were.  She was so thrilled to fibnally see
a real-life LAV-25, since her T2K character had driven one for years.  We
pulled over at the rest stop, approached the Marines, explained the
situation, and she got a nice tour of the vehicle and some great pictures.

Nice group of guys, for jarheads...
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:23:20 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

At 09:50 PM 9/13/97 +0000, Kenneth wrote:

>My group is about to land on Zila in the Aramis subsector of the
>Spinward Marches.  Zila's gravity is .272 Gs.
>
>How do you other GMs play this.  I have no problem figuring load,
>encumbrance,and relative weight--I can do that with the G factor.
>
>But, how do Zilan natives go anywhere else off planet.  How would a
>Zilan native, who is used to .272 Gs, function on a plant of 1 G?

They probably don't do much walking.  I've always cribbed Larry Niven's
travel chairs, little one man grav vehicles that keep light gravity folks
healthy on high-G worlds.

Someone who was born on Zila, of Zilanese parents, might well develop some
serious health problems if he spent a long period of time trying to live
under a higher gravity than he's used to.  The most obvious is heart
problems, since you've just increased the level of work needed by a factor
of four.

>If my players pick up some passengers (let's say they are all Zilan
>natives) from Zila, and the ship is set at a standard 1 G, how does this
>effect the passengers?

IMTU, ships slowly adjust their internal fields to match the destination
world.  When the PC's land on Zila, the floor field should be set at .272G.
 On the way to the next palnet, they'll slowly turn the field up.  This is
a sneaky way of acclimating.  You can pull the same trick with atmospheric
pressure.

>Do the PC's look like supermen compared to the Zilan citizens when they
>are on planet?

Possibly, although Strength 12 is strength 12 where ever you go.  One
possibilty is that the Zilanese have developed some form of martial art
that takes advantage of the low gravity.

(Sudden image of a Jackie Chan movie made in .272G.. that would be fun!)

>Somebody get my head in the right place for this, please!

Think of how the astronauts looked on the moon.. that's a pretty good guide.

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:10:42 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Explosive Question

At 05:37 PM 9/13/97 +0000, Kenneth wrote:

>I'm trying to throw some grenades into my game tomorrow night,

This is a good way to control your players, Use a running approach, and an
overhand throw, this.. oh.  You mean in *character*..  That's different.
Never mind.

>When the damage rating for a weapon that does explosive damage is listed
>like this--
>
>Damage			or this		Damage
>------					------
>3 explosive				5 fragmentation

>I know what it is because of the rules in Book 1.
>
>But, my problem comes in with other damage descriptions.  The TL 6
>section of the EA has several examples.
>
>Take a look at the TL 6 recoilless rifle.
>
>Damage
>------
>21 (16 explosive)
>
>What the heck does that mean.  Does the gun do 21 or 16 damage?  Or,
>does the gun do 21 damage with 16 of that 21 being explosive?  Or is 21
>applied against vehicles and 16 applied against personnel?
>
>How the heck do you read that?

The target struck directly by the shell takes Damage 21.  There is also an
explosive effect of damage 16 that hits everything around the impact.

Example.  I fire a LAW at a T-72.  The weapon hits the T-72 with Damage 23
vs. whatever armor it has.  The infantry standing near the tank are hit
with the Damage 16 explosive balst.  (Remember to reduce damage for range,
being close to an explosion is a bad thing, but they drop off quickly.)

>Also, look at the TL 6 heavy cannon.
>
>Damage
>------
>20/25 HEAP
>
>Again, what does that mean?

Firing a kinetic penetrator, the weapon does D. 20.  Firing a High
Explosive, Armor Piercing round, it does D. 25.. of course, there are
special armors to defeat HEAP rounds.

>Or the TL 6 very heavy cannon.
>
>Damage
>------
>25 (14 expl.)/37 expl.

First is a direct fire AP round.  Second is a plain HE round with no
penetrator.

>Or the TL 6 medium cannon
>
>Damage
>------
>17/21 (16 expl.)

First is a kinetic pentrator with no HE component, second is a much more
effective round.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1823
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 14 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1824



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad
Re: While we're at it...
Re: Traveller Solution Series #1
Kenneth's tweak.
Re: America 2300ad
Re: getting stuff done
Re: 2300 background simulation
Dead Astronauts
Re: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1814
Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:56:40 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad

At 04:06 AM 9/14/97 EDT, you wrote:

>And of course there would be no resistance [ red dawn ] and all the
>reserve , guard units would be in europe and asia . the leaving us open
>for invasion . did the U.S. do this in WWII ? I thought there were home
>guard units and other defense forces defending the nation at all times ?

Most of the National Guard had been mobilized and was overseas.  The units
that remianed *were* fighting the Mexican/Soviet invasion, there *was* a
strong resistance, and in the end the Soviets were driven out of Texas.

>look , I should not have attempted to interject reality into a game and I
>did not mean to insult the french or any other nation in the world with
>my opinions and thoughts . I will never buy into the U.S. main land being
>invaded by a coalition of third world banana republics [ the caribbean ]
>and I will never believe that the U.S war machine could be shut down buy
>nuclear strikes against major population areas and training bases .

The target list for the Twilight War is over 300 sites that were
sucessfully struck in the United States alone.  Communications,
transportation nexi, major population centers.. all gone.

Go to you local supermarket, and only purchase food that was grown with 50
miles of you home.  Get around you house/apartment at night with no
lighting.  Look up what untreated tetanus, cholera, and flu do to
populations.  Call your local sanitation department and find out who much
solid human waste they process every day.

This will tell you what America was like in 2000.  The cities were empty,
because there was no food.  In the country, farmers were shooting refugees,
or just enslaving them to work the land, since there was no fuel for the
combines.  Fallout from the misslefield strikes led to a epidemics as
peoples immune systems failed.  There weren't enough people to bury all the
bodies!

The US war machine was the *only thing still working*.  The troops in
Europe and Asia juist kept fighting.  This is one of the most horrible
things, IMHO, the governments died and the troops keep following the last
orders they had recieved.

>	In time of nuclear threat the major pop. centers would be on
>alert and possibly evacuated . also most of the arms producing factories
>have enough supplies in stock pile for years of total war . this goes
>doubly for fuel , and in addition 98% of the fuel pumped in alaska goes
>to the military reserves . also we [ the U.S ] have a few different
>methods of protecting itself from ICBM attacks . such as the satellites
>that launch metal rods into space to intercept the ICBM in space and
>destroy it . also I remember reading about satellites that bombard
>incoming ICBMs with micro wave which fry the circuitry and disable the
>weapon .  third is the anti missile missile .

Evacuated??  ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Try this.  I live in San Francisco.  Population 745,000.  We have two (2)
freeways out of the city.  They are clogged every rush hour.  We also have
two (2) bridges.  Ditto.  We are surronded by tragets.  WHERE ARE WE GOING
TO GO?

If you evacuate the target areas, who's going to work in the factories?
BTW: I would love to hear where you get this "years of stockpiled
materials" idea.  The Colt people buy only what they need to fill the
orders they have.  They don't keep mounds of weapon-grade sheet steel lying
around, that would be a waste.  Ditto for the GM plant that builds M-1s..
since the production run is over, they have no need to stockpile material
they may never use.

Star Wars has never been deployed.  Also, in T2K, it was not deployed.  In
discussing the game,please keep to the relvant facts. The US and Russia had
a strategic nuclear exchange.

>	this is tech that is up there , you can bet on it . also the fact
>that soviet missiles are known for the unreliable nature and lack of
>accuracy , it is odd that in T2000 every missile hit its distinction .
>and lastly the boomers would have reduced mexico and the rest of the
>invading nations to slag for the impunity .

The SS-N-21 has a CEP of a bout 250m.  Big deal, since it carries 6 50kt
warheads.  I never said that every missile hit.. in fact, New York suffered
a near miss (Armies of the Night).

You seem to have an unbelievably naive view of what total war is.  The USAF
wan't home.  It was gone.  It's fields glowing softly in the night. What
few planes were left didn't have fuel.  So who in the hell is going to bomb
Mexico?  Unless you somehow think that B-1's can burn raw crude oil.
 
>the U.S military trains for the nuclear theater [ I  know we did ] and I
>assume all militaries do .[ comments ] that means the U.S. has
>contingency plans for maintaining the infrastructure , national security
>, and ability to wage war into the nuclear exchange .
>yet in T2000 the U.S. is caught flat footed and defenceless . right and I
>got a bridge to sell you . 

Yeah, and the French spent 20 years preparing for the next war with
Germany.  1918-1939.  Spent every effort to make sure that every possible
contingency was covered, every paln anticipated.  

Germany overran France in a little under two months.

Once again, the military survived, but the bulk of the US forces were out
side the country when the nukes flew.  Also, NBC training is a joke.  "put
your ass to the blast" indeed.  I suppose you think "duck and cover" is a
viable civil defence doctrine also.

The US can't be caught of guard?  December 7th, 1941.  The US Navy had sunk
a midget submarine, spotted multiple unidentified plames on radar, and
recieved a warning that an attack was possible.  Yet at dawn we slept.
  
>	I would like to know exactly how much thought and research went
>into the background and probability but it looks a little thin to me .

A great deal.  GDW was best known as a wargame designer before Traveller,
and the design team made sure that the scenario was palusible.

>also france staying out of a major war in europe ? no way . france is a
>strategically important and central nation and would be forced into the
>war . either to support NATO or by the soviet mediterranean fleet and
>airdrops into strategic locations  in the hopes of cutting supply to NATO
>forces . or maybe to preempt NATO operations . [ ex. nuking major
>shipping ports . ect . ] of course this is all theory and I could be
>wrong ..:>}

Yep.  The support of Germany was not universal.  The US and UK went into
the fray, while France withdrew from the alliance and declared neutrality.
This was not a Soviet war of aggression, this was an attack to re-integrate
Germany (1st Edition) or too annex Silesia (@nd edition).  The Russians
were also involved in a major land war with China at the time, so they
could be bothered to waste time on a nation that had declared it wasn't
involved.

The Mediterranean fleet was decorating the bottom of the Bosporus, along
with elements of the Sixth US.

>anyway , not trying to bust on anyone elses country or impose american
>imperialism , just trying to support my point of view .

You might try reading a little more of the game backrounf then.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:13:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: While we're at it...

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> 
> I've been told that a crazy gunsmith in Canada made a .50 BMG *pistol*.
> Basicly a bolt action rifle action mounted on one hell of a pistol grip!

Ahhh, yes the Maadi pistol.

See pictures of it via: http://www.prairienet.org/guns/big/

That's where I also got to the pages about the 20mm rifle. Good spot to
bookmark.


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:22:33 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series #1

I was asked:

>Subject: Virus in a Stempel Architecture
>
>From what I remember foggily of T:TNE Virus was actually an silicon lifeform
>that was engineered as a weapon.  That was the main reason my friends and I
>thought the entire idea was so lame (ie transmitting through nav signals,
>eh?).  Please explain this a little more clearly.  Or since I do not have the
>TNE book onhand (I play Striker mainly) explain to me WHAT the hell Virus was
>suppoed to be.


Your synopsis of Virus is basically correct.  I would just add that it was
supposed to be a TL17 construct, which was rationalized to explain why it
got in all the computers of all the races.  Personally, Nah! :)

True, the T:TNE Virus was a silicon lifeform, which is why _so_ many people
were against it.  The whole point of the Stempel architecture is that the
computers of Traveller are _not_ the architecture that we all know today,
so there can be no "technical" explanations about why it couldn't exist.

It is just a way of looking at the universe that leaves some awe and
imagination left to the game.  We are extrapolating whole tech levels in a
game that is getting more and more pseudo-science, when in _fact_ of science
and tech as we know it today, if we _really_ knew what the next tech level
had in store for us, we would be at that tech level.

I had prepared the two TSS articles in advance, and the more I have thought
about it, the more I realized that a better grounding in what it is that we
are trying to capture is needed:  Stempel architecture.  If we don't over-
define the technology, we can have a more consistent and playable game.

I guess one of the things I should have said in my write-up was that given
the "facts" of the Universe as presented, yeah you are right--Virus is pretty
unjustifiable.  Of course a lot of throw-away lines would have to be done
away with to make Virus tolerable.  As a Sci-Fi concept, it was a valid
"plot device."  Those who over techie analyze it can pick it apart.  They
can't pick apart Stempel, simply because it is not overdefined.


Thanks for your interest.


Leroy Guatney - lwlg@usa.net
 University of Mars, NorthAm Campus
 Class of '98

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 97 12:37:21 -0400
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Kenneth's tweak.

Congratulations, Ken.

While I've been critical in the past of some of the less savoury Task 
Wars, your proposed solution works, and above all, is an elegant fix.

The idea of rolling once per year for older/basic character types is 
pretty basic, but the Enlistment Roll tie-in is a great leap.  If the 
math works out (and I have little doubt of this, as there are those on 
the list who number-crunch with a passion, so I'll get out of their way), 
it solves the problem of all characters having a vanilla fix applied 
across-board.


Once again, excellent job.

Out of curiousity, how does this impact basic Scouts?  Compared to 
advanced generation, 2/year seems pretty strong.  Roll twice?  Roll once 
and the Heck with the old ways?

Ideas, comments anyone?


Ross Coburn
etc. . . .

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:44:16 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, John Atkinson wrote:

> You wrote: 
> 
> 
> >I haven't read the T2k stuff in a long time but the deal went like: US
> >gets into WWIII...it doesn't turn into a cakewalk but bogs down 
> horribly.
> >The US mainland is nuked, the military declares martial law for the
> >duration. The war drags on, things are getting bad in the US. The 
> 
> Military can't do that, and to think that they would step that far 
> beyond their authority is. . . questionable.  Look at what doing that 
> earned MacAurther.  Besides the contempt of most of the officer corps 
> at the time.

Uhhh remember DC, and likely a large part of the economic and political
infrastructure are gone at this point. MacAurthur was insubordinate at a
time when _everyone_ was in place. This is a period of total chaos.
Remember, this is after a 'limited nuclear exchange':

T2k 2nd ed. P 12:

 "Throughout October the exchanges continue, escalaing
gradually. Fearful of a general strategic exchange, neither side targets
the land based ICBMs of the other, or launches so many warheads at once as
to risk convincing the other side that an all-out attack is in progress.
Neither side wishes to cross the threshold to nuclear oblivion in one bold
step, so they inch across it, never quite knowing they have done so until
after the fact.

	First military targets are hit (including the first decapitating
strikes at US targets) {note, don't tell me DC isn't one of those! Bruce}.
Then industrial targets clearly vital to the war effort, followed by
economic targets of military importance."

Later:

	"The civilian political command structure is first decimated, then
eliminated (almost by accident in some cases)"

> 
> The Congresscritter with the most seniority in the party with the 
> majority before the war.  End of discussion.  If not any Congressmen 
> left, than just about anyone who's been confirmed by Congress would 
> qualify before an officer.  After that it gets a little hazy.
>

And hazy it is...

Page 13: 
	"Once spring planting is finished, the US Congress reconvenes for
the first time since the exchange of nuclear missiles. Senator John
Broward(D. Ark) the former Governor of Arkansas, who appointed himself to
fill one of the two vacant senatorial seats. General Johnathan Cummings,
then Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, refuses to recognize the
constitutional validity of the election, citing the lack of a quorum, and
numerous irregularities in the credentials of the attending congressmen.

	(Although Cummings' decision will later be widely criticized,
there is much validity in his position. Many of the congressional seats
are disputed; several of the congressmen in attendance are merely
self-appointed local strongmen who have gained control of large parts of
old congressional districts, and some have never seen the districts they
purport to represent..." 

> >Also, the invasion of the Southwest by Mexico is not as far fetched as 
> one
> >might think...Most of New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California 
> _were_
> >parts of Mexico that the US took by force of arms or force of economy. 
> 
> Bullshit.  I'm willing to bet on the Texas National Guard (read:49th 
> Armored Division) against any army the Mexicans could ever throw out.  
> Not to mention an ARMORED CORPS that just happens to be sitting in Fort 
> Hood.

Not from POLAND they aint! Remember we're tied up in WWIII right now, and
all those troops are kinda busy elsewhere.

I think you're trying to argue this from the standpoint of today, where we
have a large standing army, in residence, plus national guard, plus a
functioning economy, and physical and electronic infrastructure.

At this point in the T2k timeline, there really _isn't_ a United
States...there's a whole bunch of little isolated communities and mini
states trying to stay alive...the national identity be hanged.

Americans come together in the face of a threat, to be sure, but _only_
when their own backyards are in order. As of this point in the timeline, I
would wager that 30-40% of the US population has been killed, and the rest
are trying to become farmers, so they can eat, because, oddly enough, the
trucks that supply the local grocery store don't come by anymore.

THAT'S the context in which we have the civil war described in the game.




Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:53:36 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

Eris Reddoch writes:

><rant>
>The bottom line is the Soviets put up a permanent Space Station while the
>US and the rest of the free world sat on their thumbs.  Now with the USSR
>broken up and Russia scrambling to find two kopecks to rub together they
>are *keeping* it up and working.  Spit and baling wire maybe, have to use
>"tap technology" to keep the computer, air system, etc working maybe, but
>they, by the great gnu, are keeping it up and working!

<snip>

   The bottom line is that the Russians are holding on to Mir much the
same way that a man will hold on to his prized '79 Triumph TR-7--the
wiring is shot, the engine leaks oil, and the transmission practically
lacks 2nd gear, but by God it's a nifty sportcar and no one is going to
take my manhood...err I mean car away!

   The Russians have very few things to be proud of these days, and Mir
is one of the last.  If the Russians have to spend their ruble keeping
it together, they probably will.

   As for the American vaporware (aka the International Space Station),
it only proves a point: if you want people to explore, tell them there
is money in it.

   Columbus sailed west because there was money in it.

   Magellan sailed around the world (or at least died trying) because
there was money in it.

   Even Cousteau was able to go on his "scientific" explorations because
his sponors saw money in it.

   Until there is money to be made from space exploration, the most
you're going to see from it is the occasional penis showing contest
between national governments, demonstrating who is more potent than who.

   Apollo wasn't just a rocket program, it was a three stage phallus
symbol.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:55:31 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: 2300 background simulation

Michael Koehne writes:

>        as most of current german economies are in the south France+Bayern
>        would certainly a big player. BTW for us in the northern, a germany
>        without Bayern and its bad right wing influence on politics, would
>        be much nicer. If anybody would like to know how law level A feals
>        visit Stuttgard or Muenchen with a freak or a african.
>
>        You are standing on the wall every half hour, only because you dont
>        look like as a german has to look.

   We have a place like this in the US--it's called Alabama.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:08:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: Dead Astronauts

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Traveller-digest wrote:
> 
> >Finally, while I don't have any numbers, I have heard that in its
> >endevors the expendability of human life was not as great a factor as in
> >the US (space prog. for example--before challenger we had only lost
> >three people (in an early apollo mission if I remember correcly).  As I
> >said, I don't have any absolute numbers...but just from talking with
> >people from the former Soviet Union its seems their numbers mign=ht be a
> >little higher.)  Given the choice...whos program would you have wanted
> >to be an astronaut/cosmonaut in?
> 
> I don't have the figures for whose space program killed more people.
>  However, the soviet space program relied more on people, and as a result, I
> don't doubt the numbers were higher.  Whether the numbers were a little or
> alot is another thing entirely.  I don't know.

   Up until the Challenger blew up, the US has had _NO_ casualties
actually in a mission.

   The three astronauts mentioned above were manning the Apollo 1
command capsule in a dress rehearsal. A fuel cell shorted against the
titanium structure of the capsule, which quickly caught fire in the pure
O2 environment (and anybody who knows anything about titanium fires should
shudder at this point) and the capsule was gutted inside of 30 seconds.
One of the astronauts had the presence of mind to _almost_ get the hatch
open...

   BTW, this incident is the reason O2 is mixed with helium in current
american spacecraft life support systems.

   The USSR, otoh, has had numerous casualties after liftoff and during
reentry. Some of you may recall that the USSR recovered their capsules on
land.


- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 09:54:24 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

[snip]
>Okay, so what does all this mean for the Vilani? Firstly they have not
>enocuntered any pathogen that has evolved on Terran since they were removed.
>This means they will not have helper T cells for virtually all current Terran
>diseases, thus making their immune response slower and less efficent. Sure
>they may have helper T cells for a few pathogens the Terrans have never
>encountered; but nothing like the number of new pathogens that have evolved
>on Terra in the past 300,000 years.
[snip]
>Secondly; simple genetics means that individuals are born with immune response
>systems of differing levels of effectiveness. On Terra those individuals with
>weaker systems are more likely to die and thus less likely to pass on their
>weaker immune system to their decendants. Thus on Terra, the human immune
>response will slowly get more efficent. However on Vland, those individuals
>born with weaker immune responses are no more likely to die and therefore
>just as likely to pass on that weaker immune system. Therefore random genetic
>mutation on Vland means that their immune system will gradually get weaker.
>This ignores the fact that since the immune response system is so energy
>intensive, those individuals on Vland with weaker immune responses actually
>are *less* likely to die and *more* likely to pass on their genes.
>
>Therefore common sense tells us that the Vilani have to have had an immune
>response system noticeably less effective than the Terrans when the first
>contacted them. Realistically no other conclusion is possible. If canon states
>this is not the case, then canon is simply flying in the face of scientific
>reality.

1) I agree completely with your reasoning;
2) Doesn't the same necessarily apply to every other Ancient-relocated
human (sub)species?  Wouldn't the Geonee, Suerrat, Darrian, Zhodani et al.
immune systems had to have been similarly degenerated?

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:15:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1814

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Traveller Fiction.
> 
> Hi all. Question: What about Traveller fiction?=20
> 
> What themes would you like to see Traveller novels on?
[snip]
> 	Adventurers doing adventurer things?
> 	Military (Hammer's Slammers) type stuff?
[snip]

   Those two would both be good. Make sure to develop good characters and
plots. ;)


- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:12:45 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, MJ Dougherty wrote:

> I read an article a few years back about Huge Handguns (or Munchkin
> Detectors if you like).
> 
> There was a feature about an Australian bush ranger (6 foot 6+ and built to
> match), who carried no rifle but an Express .600 revolver. He'd fired it
> often enough to be familiar with it (and the kneeling fire position it
> required) - and asserted that, 'yes, it really will stop a charging
> buffalo!' Scary.

You omitted a vital point! WHERE did you read this article? I'd surely
love to see it.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


> 
> I assume that the reason security patrols aboard supercarriers etc carry
> shotguns in something to do with not wanting to penetrate the inner walls
> (no chance of damaging a bulkhead). I assume spacecraft have similarly
> flimsy internal partitions covering vital machinery. But CSA (common sense
> applies). Small-calibre handguns and smgs, especially those firing plastic
> 'safety' ammunition designed to reduce penetration (e.g. glaser), shotguns
> and such weapons are not going to do much more than damage the walls.
> Consoles, however....
> 	
> A single Gauss needle is so unlikely to do any major damage - i.e. anything
> that can't just be left for routine maintenance - that it's irrelevant.
> 
> But since some boarders like to use Battledress (this is fairly uncommon
> outside military actions, and I'd imagine that heavy bulkheads in the
> regions likely to be boarded, protected cabling etc would be standard on a
> military hull), there might be a reason for firing LAGs, laser rifles and
> heavy weapons inside a starship. Other than wanting to die, that is.
> 
> I'd divide boarding weapons into these categories:
> 
> Negligible Risk: Spectacular failure might damage something fragile, but
> don't worry about it.
> Weapons such as body pistols, normal handguns and smgs, shotguns, bows,
> rifles firing 'shipboard plastic ammunition, etc. I.e. weapons with little
> penetration, or altered to have less than usual.
> 
> Minor Risk: Automatic rifles, lasers, frag grenades, gauss rifles. Any
> missed shot might require a 'catastrophe roll' if the referee feels the
> situation to be appropriate. Weapons will chew up rather than destroy the
> target system, thus causing less damage than:
> 
> Major Risk Weapons: LAGs, 30mm machine-guns, RF gauss weapons, explosives.
> Any shot not stopped by an absorbent target (read: living body) WILL
> proceed onwards and possibly break something, Whatever is hit will be at
> least badly damaged. Doom-death-munchkins will note the maximum damage
> rules - most of these weapons will come out the back of an unarmoured
> target and THEN break something else!
> 
> 'Maniac' weapons: Autocannon, Heavy explosives, plasma weapons.
> Any discharge is going to damage SOMETHING, even if the target is hit.
> Firing Plasma in Engineering or Bridge areas is just not on. But some
> nutter will no doubt try it.
> 
> If you want a table, try this one I just made up:
> 
> Target: (2D)
> 2-3 Vital System with immediate dangerous result (Life Support, Weak Hull
> Area, Fuel pipes)
> 4-5 Important but non-vital system (Backups controls, Computer backup
> memory)
> 6-7 Impressive cosmetic damage (Wall paneling, Captain's dress uniform)
> 9-10 Expensive but 'irrelevant' item (Luggage, Cargo, Ship's Cargo Bot)
> 11-12 Vital system, probably without immediate result (but bad news all the
> same): (Control Consoles, Control Wiring, Drives)
> 
> 
> Damage: Roll 1D, add number of dice damage weapon does after first
> subtracting any armour value assigned to walls, etc:
> 
> 1-3: Slight dent, hole etc.
> 4-6 System looks worryingly damaged, but is easily fixed.
> 7-8 System is degraded in performance and needs minor repairs
> 9-10 System is severely degraded (50% chance  failure is complete). Major
> repairs required.
> 11-12 System is knocked out but repairable. Major repair job.
> 13+ System is destroyed. Backups may still function.
> 
> A normal partition wall might be given a value of 2?
> 
> The referee must choose appropriate system from those likely to be present
> in the combat area, or along a line of fire from there. Common Sense
> Applies.
> 
> This sort of thing can be great fun - Pirate Petrov looses off an ACR-10
> down a corridor towards the open bridge valve. Astrogator Tim dives aside.
> 4D of damage (doubled to 8 for autofire by a sadistic referee) slams into
> bridge machinery. Referee rolls 1D and gets a 5. That's 13 - something is
> destroyed on the bridge.(Which could include expendable 'extras' but not
> PCs). Players tense up as the ref rolls for system hit - a 7! The captain's
> coffee mug is shattered, the Emperor's portrait gains another nostril, but
> the damage is cosmetic. (The effects of a mugful of Platimun Blend down the
> Nav console are up to the referee's sick imagination). The crew return fire
> carefully, painfully aware of the open Engineering valve behind Petrov
> (what a bunch of idiots. Perhaps they deserve to get their Jdrive shot up!)
> 
> Now we have a problem appearing for characters - whether use heavy AP
> weapons or lighter antipersonnel ones for boarding - you can't smash up
> fuel pipes with a shotgun, but you can't stop battledress either.
> 
> I'd imagine that by TL 12, propellants would be cleaner, thus sidestepping
> the 'indoor firing range' effect we all love so well. But what of a
> boarding using Black Powder weapons. Now that's be fun! Two shots and the
> ship's full of acrid smoke!
> 
> Alternatively, so far as normal boarding goes, I'd say it would be possible
> to ignore the effects of 'minor' weapons unless someone messed up badly,
> and only worry about heavy overpenetrating or explosive rounds. The effects
> could be 'guesstimated' by simply rolling 2D and adding the weapon's damage
> number.Anything over about 10-12 is serious, anything over 18 is
> potentially catastrophic - say someone caps off a body pistol. Ref ignores
> potential damage as trivial. A Laser Rifle? Ah. Roll 2D and add damage
> rating of 7. Roll is a 7 = 14: something is damaged. Referee makes
> something up. Or uses my table, above.
> 
> Of course, this does not take into account deliberate close-range damage
> using guns, such as firing a handgun directly into a console or fuel feed. 
> 
> Ricochets and unaimed spray fire:
> 
> In the situation where an SMG burst ricochets from a bulkhead, or someone
> shoots though a partition wall with armour-piercing ammo at someone they
> can't see but guess is there, I turn the situation on its head and ask
> characters to roll NOT to be hit.
> 
> A character's 'luck' is the sum of his/her highest physical stat (STR, DEX,
> END), plus highest skill number. Roll luck as a task NOT to be hit -
> Average for a couple of shots fired through concealment such as a bush or
> thin wall, or a ricochet situation. Difficult for a burst, Formidable for
> Rapid-fire. Failure means that the character has been hit for half damage.
> Spectacular failure is full damage.
> 
> Thus it is possible to target someone who you can't see but who might be
> behind that bush. He will gain armour protection from the
> wall/bush/cardboard box as appropriate. The firing character can use half
> his weapon or all his Forward Observer skill to estimate the shot, and
> deducts this from the target's chance of NOT being hit.
> 
> EG: Gunner Bob dives past the open cargo hold valve. Pirate Petrov sees
> him, but can't turn in time. Instead he guesses where Bob will be and
> sprays his rifle through the internal partition. Petrov has Rifle -3, so
> subtracts 2 (rounding up) from Bob's chance to avoid damage. Bob's luck is
> given by his END of 9 and his Sensors skill of 3. Thus his target is 9+3-2=
> 10. Petrov fired a burst, so the roll is Difficult. 2 1/2 dice give a total
> of 11. Bob is hit. But first the ref rolls for damage to systems within the
> wall. A 7 gives cosmetic damage only - the wall is chewed up pretty bad,
> but that's it. Bob is granted 2 points of armour for the thin partition
> wall, and takes half damage from the random burst. That's 4-2 dice, halved
> for blindfire, doubled for auto fire - 2D. Bob takes a couple of hits. He
> brilliantly returns fire through the still substantially intact wall,
> firing a single shot from his 2D autopistol. The ref knows this can't
> penetrate a 2-armour-point wall, so demands a ricochet roll. Bob's luck is
> 12 (it's not reduced by damage). It's a single shot, so difficulty is
> Average. Bob rolls 2 sixes - spectacular failure! The round comes straight
> back and hits him for 2D (full damage on a spectacular failure, half
> otherwise). Bob takes more damage and passes out.
> 
> Next round, Petrov hoses more ammo through the wall rather than leap into
> the bay and be ambushed by Bob (He thinks). The ref rolls some dice but
> ignores the result, leniently ruling that Bob has suffered enough, and
> being unconscious, can't be hit. A sadist might roll to hit anyway, with
> Bob's unconscious body being further mangled by blindfire. But this
> referee, unlike me, isn't a sadist.
> 
> Blindfire like this can be great fun - players don't know whether their
> target is hit or not. It's not so difficult to run, either. I sometimes
> have players trying to set up ricochet shots using internal sensors,etc.
> Anything rather than face a stand-up gunfight.
> 
> Guns, after all, are dangerous.
> 
> But only in the wrong hands (ie everyone else's)
> 
> Hope this might be some use:
> Martin
> 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1824
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 14 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1825



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Kenneth's comments
Re: America 2300 ad
Re: Aslan
Re: T IV - speculation
Re: Fusion
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: Fusion
Re: Fusion
Re: Commentary
Re: Explosive Question
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships
Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth
Re: Commentary
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
How to get things done!
Re: Fusion
Chemical engines
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:05:21 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Kenneth's comments

Kenneth: I tried to mail you directly, failed, so I'm replying to your
reply here:
I don't like Dragonlance etc, but then I don't like D&D all that much.

TNE: Actually I agree with your comments, for the most part. I used my own
combat system, and I missed chrgen. The cheesy Tacnet names irritated me.
The artwork was too 'Paranoia'.

Yet it was such a great setting, (implemented poorly like you say) that it
was a pity folks didn't like it. My own combat system (which grew out of
frustration with the CT system, ironically) is fast and dirty. And it
allows for recoil.

But thanks for enlightening me. I always loved TNE and lamented its flaws -
and played right it really did feel like Traveller. But then I'm the one
Dave Nilsen said, ' you're probably the only one who understands what the
Reformation Coalition is al about' to (!).

I love T4, even while lamenting its flaws. I've even started using the
rules 'straight', something I've not done for years. 

I hope to see Traveller fiction soon, but that's mainly because I hope to
be writing it!


Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:19:07 -0400
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@pinn.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300 ad

Good point, the Popular Conservatives of 2300 could have been a distant
descendant of New America.

I hated what New America "stood" for but liked the Popular
Conservatives.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 10:16:45 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Aslan

CardSharks wrote:

>Each Aslan is a member of a clan, which determines his or her family ties.
>Each clan name can have many different variations, but always begins with
>the same two sounds.

Any given clan has a number of names, all of which share the first two
phonetic elements?  What's the significance of the variation?  What's the
significance of those first two "sounds"?

(Or do you mean that all clan names start with one of two sounds? Or the
first two phonemes of *all* clan names are the same?)

>        Although all clans are technically patriarchies, some afford a greater
>degree of clan power to females. Clan names beginning with a vowel are more
>female oriented.

I have to say I dislike this idea -- I much preferred the description of
Aslan society being fundamentally patriarchal and paternalistic, with the
female-run "corporations" borrowing the model of the patriarchal clan and
using bonds of fictive kinship to link their personnel.

Under what circumstances would a clan afford more internal political power
to females, and why would its members change its name to formally recognize
this fact?  Your proposal doesn't sound implausible, but it does beg for an
explanation.

<waiting for lightning bolts to punish this insolence>

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:25:33 -0400
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@pinn.net>
Subject: Re: T IV - speculation

> ...speculation, to be sure, but fascinating nonetheless...
> 

The Rebellion was already in motion back in Illelish.  There would have 
been a war, but the Imperial faction would have had a a non-Lucanic
leader.  The Illelish revolt would have been a major but non
Imperium-shattering
event.

Hmmm.

- -Dan Lane

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:06:10 -0400
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@pinn.net>
Subject: Re: Fusion

Hi Eris,

Youre talking about Hadrogravitics, using both strong force enhancement
and enormous gravitic fileds (grav focusing) to enhance fusion reactor
outputs, sort of like singulrity catalyzed fusion.  Allows for enormous 
power levels but sucks fuel like a black hole. 

- -Dan Lane

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:10:39 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

 Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:18:36 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller
>
> In mail you write:
>
> >> There will be two main effects.  One is that you need to get to
> >> 100 diams to jump.  The second is when the stars of the origin
> >> or destination systems are in the way (The odds of invervening
> >> systems blocking are miniscule).
> >
> > I'm not sure I agree with this. It's always been implied that jumps
> > go 'around' any obstacles (stars, planets, Zhodani battleships, etc),
> > ie that objects in realspace don't intrude into jumpspace. There are
> > no misjump modifiers for the number of systems you pass along the
> > way.  The exceptions to this are exit from and entry to jumpspace -
> > you can't leave or (safely) enter j-space within 100d.
>
> I don't have a problem with the idea that "gravity wells" intrude into
> J-space. Or that running into one can drop you out of j-space. After
> all, you can't "see" anything outside your jump bubble. Assuming that
> transit time between any two "wells" is always a week is no more of a
> stretch than having jumps always be a week is anyway.
>
> And it actually makes a *little* sense that there has to be *some*
> connection between j-space and n-space. If there wasn't, we'd have no
> way of getting there.
>
> - --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

My original view of Jump was formed when I first started playing this game in the LBB
days. Since I started on this list a little over 6 months ago i've read all of the
articles concerning Jump. Some have added to my vision, others I've plain ignored. If
the list doesn't mind.. (well since nobody shouted to stop I guess you don't ;), I'd
like to throw out my view. Again this is a 20 year old view and doesn't fit all, or
even most of the current view.

When I formed my view there was no talk of Jump bubbles filled with hydrogen from
grids. The extra fuel was just a way to "supercharge" the power plant to create
enough energy to rip open a hole into Jump space. That was why ships like the Annic
Nova (I heard those groans!) worked as well as drop tanks/capacitors (which came
later). Admittedly the fuel usage was a grossly high percentage for just the
operation of supercharging the PP, we explained that away as "slop", in order to
"burn" the needed amount of fuel, you threw much more than was needed through the
power plant.

With this in mind and the 100 diameter limit due to gravitational effects, it became
assumed that the Jump Drive was based on gravity, something like creating a small
black hole with all that energy. (Remember please this was back when there was a lot
of talk about black holes). So any major gravity field had some impingement into jump
space, to a greater or lesser degree.

Now we're getting to where I'm going. When a jump course was plotted it was plotted
to avoid Known gravitational fields, routes "through" a solar system had to avoid
gravity fields, planets, moons etc. by the same 100 dia. needed to initiate a jump. A
jump had to avoid the star of the starting system, in other words you couldn't jump
"through" the star of the start system to reach a system in that direction, you had
to move to a point in space 100 dia. away from any gravity source AND with a
projected straight line to the target system that didn't intersect the 100 dia. limit
of any other gravity field. This made for a LOT more insystem maneuvering and course
plotting. Most jumps were made from points above and below the star system, (FASA
later made this part of Battletech, I believe because it was so widely accepted in
those early days). Close planet, in system jumps, were VERY hard and VERY risky, used
only in emergencies.

With all of this said, I support the position that Gravity wells should have an
effect in Jump space. The idea of having navigational hazards, even in Jump, has a
lot of appeal, particularly in the M:0 period where they will be mostly unknown.
These hazards have always been part of my games with their location and mapping a
primary job for the Scouts, and the lack of good maps and charts being a real pain
for my players (not to mention those charts can COST if they have a little too much
pocket money for my taste!). I've used a black dwarf  to "pull" a ship out of jump
early for one adventure, they spent a Long Time figuring out how to refuel for a
second jump, lucky for them the dwarf had also captured a rogue asteroid but they
still had to build a still from parts of their ship ;).

Anyway this is all just my opinion but I really favor a Jump system that includes
navigational hazards.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:11:14 -0400
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@pinn.net>
Subject: Re: Fusion

Hi Leonard,

> Well, as with most power plants, you'll likely have several stages. the
> "topping" cycle works with the highest temp "working fluid" and thus
> has the highest efficiency. Then you can have one or more secondary
> extraction cycles that work off the "low" temperature exhaust of the
> topping cycle.
> 
> I figure MHD would be best for running hot plasma thru. You'd also run
> some sort of coolant thru the reactor walls to carry off the heat from
> absorbed gamma rays and the like. That could go thru a conventional
> steam turbine type cycle.
> 
> And the "low end" cycle could be heating the LH2 and running a turbine
> off the resulting hydrogen gas.

These sort of dohickies are usually pretty complex.  Examples include
the ex-Kirov's Nuclear & Boiler superheat plant and the ICR gas turbine.
The SAGT (Steam augmented gas turbine) is another complex plant.  All
have
higher effciencies but at questionable price efficiency and
engineerability.


I think you could also argue that a mere 6G's isn't enough to form
superdense matter, so higher grav focusiong capabilities must be
available
from its TL onward.  Grav focusing may generate local fields that drop
off
precipitously.

- -Dan Lane

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:31:19 -0400
From: Daniel Ray Lane <drlane@pinn.net>
Subject: Re: Fusion

Jory M. Earl wrote:
> 
> I figure MHD would be best for running hot plasma thru. You'd also run
> some sort of coolant thru the reactor walls to carry off the heat f
> 
> I remember a time when no one knew what a Magneto Hydro-dynamic
> generator was.  Do you realize russia as been running 2 or 3 for years
> now?  The US is starting their very first one in the northwest in
> Washington, soon.  (as far as I know it's the only one on US soil).
> 
> --
>                               The J-Man
>                              GOC Systems
>                            j-man@iname.com

There have been higher efficiency systems proposed, one using deuteron
ions in magnetically contstrained arcs with effective temps of 1,000,000
K.
The energy extraction method seemed to be radiative in nature,
harnessing
the x and gamma raysthose deuterons would produce.  

Reference was a scientific encyclopedia, possibly McGraw Hill (sp?)

- -Dan Lane

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:55:59 +0000
From: Tim Connors <tconnor@pop3.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: Commentary

At 11:48 AM 9/13/97 +0002, you wrote:
>
>	Well, unless downtown Jerusalem is not considered anything vital...
>According to Gulf War IRC logs from #peace, 121 SCUD missiles hit
>Jerusalem and the surroundings. The problem with SCUDs wasn't the 
>Patriot missiles but poor pre-strike intel, they couldn't hit a damn 
>thing.
>
>	(not trying to bash the US Military here, just reminding that CNN 
>doesn't tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth...)
>
>
>/RFXn     mlaakso@utu.fi        aka. Matti Laakso
> -Phone: +358-(0)2-237 9928       YO-Kyla 19 A 11
> -IRC: RFXn                       FIN-20540  TURKU
> -Talk: RFXn@delenn.yok.utu.fi    Finland
>
	What difference would it make if a Patriot hit a SCUD? SCUDs are ballistic
- -- once you've launched one, it's got to come down somewhere. If the
Patriot hit one, it would just deflect it to a new landing point; and since
the SCUDs were magnificently inaccurate, the chances are that deflecting
the damn thing could be more dangerous than leaving it alone.


Tim Connors

You can't fall off of the floor -- most human beings require two years to
learn this.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:40:07 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Explosive Question

Douglas E. Berry wrote:


Douglas, thanks for the help!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:44:36 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:31:06 -0700, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> Actually, there doesn't need to be any connection with Jump-space and
> normal space.  Jump Drives (unless I'm mistaken) create a temporary
> portal into the realm of hyperspace (5th dimension).

This is contradictory.  In order to "open a hole into jump space" and
then physically pass through that "hole", jump space and normal space
*must* be connected at some point (just as 2D space and 3D space are
linked together).  In addition, a ship travelling in jump space must
use normal space physics to separate itself from jump space, since a
jump drive is a physical device built using normal space physics.

> The energies involved in tearing space open to the hyperspatial
> dimension would explain the need for doing so a certain distance from
> any gravity well, otherwise you would de-stabilize stars or destroy
> planets.

Interesting twist :)  Unfortunately, Traveller canon still lets you
attempt to jump inside 100 diameters-- sometimes *well* within that
limit.

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:44:37 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:39:38 +0100, MJ Dougherty wrote:

> I'd divide boarding weapons into these categories:
> 
> Negligible Risk: Spectacular failure might damage something fragile, but
> don't worry about it.
> Weapons such as body pistols, normal handguns and smgs, shotguns, bows,
> rifles firing 'shipboard plastic ammunition, etc. I.e. weapons with little
> penetration, or altered to have less than usual.
> 
> Minor Risk: Automatic rifles, lasers, frag grenades, gauss rifles. Any
> missed shot might require a 'catastrophe roll' if the referee feels the
> situation to be appropriate. Weapons will chew up rather than destroy the
> target system, thus causing less damage than:
> 
> Major Risk Weapons: LAGs, 30mm machine-guns, RF gauss weapons, explosives.
> Any shot not stopped by an absorbent target (read: living body) WILL
> proceed onwards and possibly break something, Whatever is hit will be at
> least badly damaged. Doom-death-munchkins will note the maximum damage
> rules - most of these weapons will come out the back of an unarmoured
> target and THEN break something else!
> 
> 'Maniac' weapons: Autocannon, Heavy explosives, plasma weapons.
> Any discharge is going to damage SOMETHING, even if the target is hit.
> Firing Plasma in Engineering or Bridge areas is just not on. But some
> nutter will no doubt try it.

I'd put the 30mm machine-guns in the "maniac" category!  After all,
the A-10 packs a 30mm cannon that can pierce tank armour :)

I'd also put plasma weapons in with the "major risk" weapons since
much of the damage code of these weapons is in the form of heat and
'plasma splash'.

Change "heavy explosives" to "tapped/shaped charges" and that's it!

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:15:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth

Actually, if the leagility part does not bother you making a pirate radio or
TV station only costs about $100 for the transmitter and whatever bits you
want.  A bit more for the more expensive (more watts) ones.  But it's no big
deal to make your own out of Radio Shack parts and a visit to Fry's.  Plus if
you have some steel cohones you can transmit OVER the broadcast signals (at
least over a limited area).  This is known as "signaljacking" and
is....FROWNED upon....to say the least.  But you can drown out those lame
weathermen with your own "special reports" heheheh.
Dar

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:31:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commentary

In a message dated 97-09-14 12:57:42 EDT, you write:

<< You get any military and a civillian together, and the military will 
 band together against the civillian. <<
True :)
 
<< You get members of all four services together, and the other three will 
 band together against the Air Force.<<
Also true.
 
>> You get just Army personell together, and the combat arms will split 
 vs. the REMFs<<

Get any Marines together and they will bitch about what a bunch of losers the
other branches (esp Army) are... ;)
 
 >>You get just combat arms together, and Combat Engineers are the odd man 
 out.  <<
 
 Doesn't stop us from working together when we need to (had fun working 
 with a bunch o' Infantry this summer.  We _both_ came away convinced 
 the other was a bunch of suicidal lunatics. . . )
 
 J >>
Infantry ARE suicidal nuts!  It's in the job description :)
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:26:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

In a message dated 97-09-14 12:52:09 EDT, you write:

<< Actually, I can see situations where the ref is *right*, but for the
 wrong reasons. It's possible, and even *likely*, that a lot of what we
 consider "software" will be closer to the ROM-paks used in games. Sure,
 you can copy it. But it isn't worth the trouble.<<
 
 Uhhh, yeah right.  You checked out the web for game roms lately?  If it's a
choice between paying .05$ or getting it for free the a big minority will go
for the free version.
<<Or they may have solved the piracy problem by having all computers have
 a "hardware serial number" (more like a PGP signature). In which case,
 your software won't *run* on another system without the manufacturer
 "re-keying" it to the new system.<<

Hmm, sounds a like the "dongle" method of software protection.  This
supposedly "unbreakable" system did not last an full week after it's
debut....there is NO such thing as foolproof protection.  Especially with
dedicated groups of people dedicated to breaking such protection.
 
 <<Take a combination of the two and you have the computers from S.M.
 Stirling's "Draka" timeline. Where keeping the system from being
 compromised is the single most important design criterion.<<

But even with that setting being a security managers Nirvana the ENTIRE Draka
computer network was compromised.  Of course in that case it was at the
source.  Just goes to show you...
 
 <<These are possible, but "simpler" answers than your "Stempel
 architecture". And what little we can forsee of quantum computers makes
 things *really* messy.<<

Last weeks science fiction is this weeks outdated tech.
 
 >>Finally, there are computer OSes that already exist where you the OS
 won't *let* you backup up software flagged as "no copies allowed". And
 they have access restrictions on files as well. Unlike MS-DOS, these 
 are built in at the OS level. Combine such an OS with protected mode
 hardware, and the only way to "crack" things is with custom equipment
 built *specifically* for the purpose of violating security. <<

Uhhh, examples please?  I've never heard of this.  And if they could why
would Microsoft not build it into THEIR OS???  Or on NT 5.0?  Never heard of
this on any OS coming out in the near future.  Probably will never happen
either.
 
 >>The existing OSes that do this aren't on secure hardware, so by use of
 some ASM trickery, you can create things like sector editors so you can
 crack the protection. On hardware with "protected" mode, the OS doesn't
 allow this. Add encryption, with the key in the OS, and you are going
 to have special hardware and software such as I mentioned above. >>

Sector editors?  Sounds a little like harkening back to the "Good 'Ole Days"
of 8 bit computing where the first copy protection schemes involved creating
intentional bad sectors on the disk...heheh

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 97 14:28:20 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: How to get things done!

On 09/14/97 at 04:36 AM,  kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne) said:

>IMHO: Space Shuttle is the most stupid thing in US space
>	program. Because anythink goes up cost money, anythink going
>	down (landing) is wasted money. The payload of the shuttle
>	tender would make a space station a cheap side effect if
>	the astronautes reenter athmosphere in a light drop capsule,
>	while the rest is staying in orbit and mounted to a station.

Hum, well, I don't love what the Shuttle was turned into, but I *do*
support inexpensive and reusable, so we need to get back more than just the
crew.  The engines are the really expensive hardware part of any liquid
fueled rocket, so you don't want to leave them up there where they won't do
any good.  So, what needs to de-orbit for reuse are the engine, the
controls for the engines, the crew, and enough of the framework to hold all
of it together, and in reality that means..more or less..the whole thing.

What *could* be left up there (given the shuttle system) is the external
tank.  Yes, boosting it on up would cut cargo by a small fraction, but it
would give you a very large airtight structure in orbit on every launch. 
There are a number of solid plans on how to refurbish those tanks, link
them together, install work and living spaces in them, and generally *grow*
a space presence in LEO.

The problem with our space transportation strategy is that we tried to
build ONE vehicle to do everything.  (Reminds me of McNamara's F111 fiasco,
don't get me wrong the F111 is a fine light bomber, but it was originally
conceived as being the *only* fighter/bomber in our fleet...that just
didn't work) 

IMO, what we need to do to open up space...

On the Hardware side, we need 4 *different* vehicles specialized for
different tasks, and a number of interlocking control, workspace, cargo,
and living modules:

 1.  A heavy lifter (tractor/trailer model) to put up very large modules
    that can be easily broken up.  Things like fission reactors and
    shielded core modules for a station and manned exploration vehicles.
    It doesn't have to be manned, but its expensive engines (and pumps,
    and control modules) should be detachable so they can be recovered
    and reused.  (30 years ago this would have been the Saturn, today
    we'd have to develop it, but the Russians *do* have a heavy lift
    capability available for use while something better is developed)
    
 2.  A medium lifter (delivery van model) to put up smaller modules and
    bulk supplies.  A shuttle sized vehicle *without* multi-week
    endurance is what I'm talking about here.  Its payload bay should be
    designed to recover the recoverable portions of the heavy lifter.
    Again it doesn't even have to be manned, for flexibility I'd give
    it a small crew, but it should be completely reusable.  Maybe not
    SSTO, but that's the long term goal.  (The shuttle fits this
    role..poorly, but it does fit it..so do several of the stacked
    rockets as a current capability while we refit/redesign a more
    rational reuseable system.
    
 3.  A light lifter (passenger van model) to put up personnel and small
    special payloads, and make emergency runs to LEO.  Built small and
    light, able to get setup and up with a minimum of time or support
    structure.  SSTO is again a goal, but several two stage atmospheric
    lift and launch systems have been proposed and could be built
    inexpensively.  Nothing we have really does this, but a number of
    proposed designs, including "Dark Horse" could handle this role.

4.  A space tug designed specifically to move structures around in
   space.  Stick them on the back of workspace, cargo, and or living
   modules and boost them from LEO to HEO, GEO or the Moon/Mars for that
   matter.  Use fission reactors to power ion, mass driver or simply as
   thrust assists to H/O engines.  NERVA is still sitting in storage
   somewhere isn't it?  After 30 years we *should* be able to build
   something like it lighter, cheaper, more powerful.
    
We also need to develop workspace, cargo, power and living modules that
link together. The lego approach.  ;-)  Skylab, Mir and dozens of paper
designs already exist as models for them.

I'm sorry to say that the only nation that has the money and technology to
actually do this is the US, and we don't have the cultural or political
will to do it on our own..not today.  However, there *might* still be a way
if several of the space-faring (and want to be
space-faring) nations would work together.

The current capabilities of the US, ESA, RSA..as well as Canada, Japan, etc
could provide what is needed to BUILD ONTO MIR to develop a multi-nation
space station.  They could also begin to put the infrastructure up needed
to put a multi-nation base on the moon.

While we are jointly building up a presence around MIR we could be
developing the needed vehicles and modules by dividing up the work:

1.  All three of the earth to orbit (ETO) lifters could use the same
    engines.  The medium and heavy lifters would gang several together
    to increase lift.  This means the engines, pumps and controls could
    be standardized and (sort of) mass produced.  This would lower
    building and use costs.  With the US, ESA, Russia and Japan dividing
    up the work the various parts could be built without breaking
    anyone's budget.
    
2.  The space tug's nuclear engine is probably sitting in a warehouse in
    either the US or Russia right now, and if it isn't either of us
    could build it in short order.  The same can be said for the nuclear
    power module.

3.  The workspace, and living modules are lower expense items and Skylab
    and Mir provide excellent models for them already.  Countries with
    less *lift* capacity/experience could be tasked with building them.
    This gives Canada, Australia, Brazil, Mexico, China, India, etc
    *real* participation and access to space.
    
Could we do it?  Yes, we could! 

Is it likely?  No, it isn't, especially if we leave it to the current set
of politicians and bureaucrats that run things.  I still think it could
happen, if *we* make it happen.

    "You may say I'm a dreamer,
     but I'm not the only one..."

                 --- John Lennon
     

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:38:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fusion

In a message dated 97-09-14 13:18:20 EDT, you write:

<< I figure MHD would be best for running hot plasma thru. You'd also run
 some sort of coolant thru the reactor walls to carry off the heat f
 
 I remember a time when no one knew what a Magneto Hydro-dynamic
 generator was.  Do you realize russia as been running 2 or 3 for years
 now?  The US is starting their very first one in the northwest in
 Washington, soon.  (as far as I know it's the only one on US soil).
  >>
Isreal has had one up for longer than that.  Main problem with MHD is its
BIG.  And you can use a low melting point metal in the reactor so the heat
problems are not as intense. I believe Isreal used mercury or somesuch on
their experimental reactor.
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 97 14:36:21 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Chemical engines

On 09/14/97 at 06:27 AM,  jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay) said:

>> Anything past what it takes to cause compression ignition (like in a
>> diesel) is wasted isn't it?

>Interestingly put, but yes, this is true.  Diesels run compression ratios
>in the neighbourhood of 18:1 while gasoline engines are closer to 8:1 or
>9:1.  High performance motors run higher ratios, but also require fuel
>with gobs more octane to compensate.  Higher compression ratios aren't
>really a "waste", exactly-- more like "counter productive".

Diminishing returns? ;->  I think we are *well* over the top of the curve
on IC/EC engines, already. There's only so much extra *useable* power you
can squeeze out of these reactions so I don't think you'll see much
improvement from IC or EC in the future.  I could, of course, be wrong. ;->


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:37:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

In a message dated 97-09-14 13:17:57 EDT, you write:

<< Actually, I believe the Ref may be correct.  Software as advanced as
 that used in the traveller universe would encode itself on a randomly
 rotating fractal encryption alogrythm perhaps every few seconds.
 Remember, it's self-evolving, therefore has some measure of control over
 it's own copy protection process.  Software such as runs Navigation and
 Weapons and other crucial programs (especially aboard military ships),
 needs to be protected from simple tampering such as downloading and
 altering.  Otherwise what's to stop enemy computers from uploading
 viruses or tapeworms, etc over the communications channel and thereby
 subverting the starship's main computer system?<<

Uhhh, like <drum roll> VIRUS? :)~
And I expect most high grade "software" like that to actually be firmware.
 Possibly embedded or on special ROM type plugin-cards.  With software being
as complex as it is NOW I can't even IMAGINE what it must be like in
traveller.  So the whole "Sure, lets throw in the crypto-algorithm from hell"
seems dubious.  Besides, all it takes is one little advance in mathematic
theory and *POOF* there goes the usefullness of the crypto...

 >>It's been stated that the Ref involved doesn't have any knowledge of
 advanced computer systems, and that's why he made his ruling.  I
 disagree.  Anyone with sufficient knowledge of advanced computer systems
 would inherently understand that 'software' of the Imperium is not only
 extremly hard to copy (if not impossible), but that it may also use
 aggressive copy protection methods based on artificial intelligence.
 -- >>

AI copy protection?  I doubt even the most hard core company would waste the
effort that would entail just to make sure Joe Blow does not get a bootleg
copy of Gunnery-1.  Especially in the Imperium there must be BILLIONS of
hackers all wanting to be the first to crack the new copy protection.  And a
billions a lot of hackers......
Ken

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1825
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 14 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1826



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Mercenary Administrivia, Nukes and Imperial Interest Rates
[none]
Re: America 2300ad
Re: getting stuff done
Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships
Re: Dead Astronauts
Re: America 2300ad
Re:American Jingoism
Re: Chemical engines
Re: How to get things done!
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825
Re: Bruce's Question etc.
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825
Re: getting stuff done
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Aslan
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:44:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Mercenary Administrivia, Nukes and Imperial Interest Rates

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
> 
> Next, Imperial interest rates. The Imperium seems to me to be a
> zero-inflation economy, with a very very hard Imperial credit ... kind of
> like the British pound in the days of Empire 

	I agree.

> (incidentally, someone talked
> about wage-push inflation recently. Do the math - it only happens when you
> drop the assumption that business acts in order to maximize profits. Which
> one probably should do if one is trying to model a 20th century economy,
> but that is another issue). 

	What you say is true only in the world of the theoretical 
economist.  And the macro models of theoretical economists that 
are en vogue right now don't work particularly well.  The Federal 
Reserve still believes in wage-push inflation, that's why they 
still use unemployment as an important inflation indicator.  Given its 
totally empirical focus and excellent record, I'd believe the Fed on such 
matters.
	As for profit maximization and extensive rationality, remember 
that these are theoretically convenient assumptions rather than empirically 
accurate descriptions.  

> I think about 3% is about right for zero-risk
> investments, which means your average Free Trader will be paying about 6%
> interest on borrowed money.

	Six percent is in fact what they _do_ pay.
 
> By the way, has anyone else wondered why Free Traders tie up all that
> working cargo in a starship, rather than by buying the speculative cargo
> and leasing the starship on a monthly basis ?

	Someone else asked this recently and I think that most speculative
trade is conducted by import-export companies that ship goods as 
freight on the big haulers.  Free Traders exist in the smallest of niches 
where their newer information and ability to serve very small markets 
allows them to survive.  They are by no means the main-stays of trade in 
the Imperium.
	Historically there were ships that operated as something like 
Free Traders, but they relied on unorganized buyers and sellers on both 
ends and significant transactional hazards.  With both ends of the 
transaction under the Imperial legal and financial umbrella, arranging 
trades directly without the middle-man of the Free Trader shouldn't be 
too difficult.
	We could imagine commercial information going out on the X-boats
or X-Web, also.  So an operation on a backwater world could use a search
program on the subsector yellow pages to find someone to sell him several
tons of foogle-blasters in odd sizes.  He'd place an order into the mail,
to be picked up by the next mail ship, along with an encoded
funds-transfer order to be executed when a valid bill-of-lading was 
presented to the bank by the company he's ordering from.  If there was 
some problem with the delivery, he might have to travel off-world to 
solve the legal problem, but the uniform Imperial laws would be known to 
him and well equipped to handle the situation.  Still, the trouble and 
expense of such arrangements means that only companies that rely on 
off-world supplies or markets for frequent transactions will bother to 
set them up.  Other firms will rely on importer-exporters.  On the 
frontiers and in back waters, Subsidized Merchants probably provide the 
continuity to hold this system together.  
	All this means Free Traders try to survive by filling the cracks
in this system or going where regular trade and communication do not
exist. 

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:27:54 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [none]

John M. Atkinson wrote:

>:) Did you hear IG is loosing money?  :)

That is *not*  a good rumour to be spreading. If it is true, that means
that GURPS may end up the only Traveller system, and I for one won't be
following the game that way. (Sourcebooks yes system no).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:14:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

In a message dated 97-09-14 15:36:39 EDT, you write:

<< Heh.  Last month when my wife and I were driving home from San Diego, we
 passed through Pendelton.. I was driving when she asked me what the
 vehicles at the side of the road were.  She was so thrilled to fibnally see
 a real-life LAV-25, since her T2K character had driven one for years.  We
 pulled over at the rest stop, approached the Marines, explained the
 situation, and she got a nice tour of the vehicle and some great pictures.
 
 Nice group of guys, for jarheads... >>
OUCH!  Uhhh, thanx...I think...
I don't own T2K anymore (it was....."borrowed" from me) but I'd like to get
it again and do up some of the more modern armored vehicles (ie T-90, T-80UT,
the Arena Anti-Missile system), BMP-3, etc....).
Funny how all the new stuff is coming out of Russia neh?  And some of it
(T-90, BMP-3) is said (by US military testers) to be superior to current US
gear.  Hmm, so if you know if T2K has a vehicle construction system let me
know.  Or if you have some of the books for sale let me know too.
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 97 14:56:36 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

On 09/14/97 at 09:44 PM,  Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
<a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> said:

> What killed Skylab
>was that at the time nobody understood just how dangerous a solar flare
>maximium could be. Firstly nobody expected that Skylab was in any danger,
>then when it became obvious that it was coming down, nobody anticipated
>just how fast it would come down. There was only about three months
>between finding there was a problem and Skylab splattering all over the
>outback. Not enough time to plan a mission, let alone get congress to
>approve funding!

Andrew, there were a number of us calling for Skylab to be boosted to a
higher orbit for years, before it came down.  It was in "no immediate
danger of de-orbiting", said the *experts* at NASA, so nothing was done. It
*could* have been boosted, it should have been boosted, and it should have
been done *years* before the flare and it became too late.

The *real* problem is that those with the power to *do* anything don't care
one whit about man's expansion into space!  For them it's all about funding
programs and keeping their jobs.  If Congress cuts a program back what do
they care as long as they can get some other program funded so they stay
employed.  It's the bureaucratic mentality in the leadership positions that
is killing us. 

I *wish* turning the development of space over to private enterprise would
turn things around, but I'm afraid big-business has become as bureaucractic
as the government.

Eris,
    the cynic ;->
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:05:34 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships

MJ Dougherty wrote:

> I assume that the reason security patrols aboard supercarriers etc carry
> shotguns in something to do with not wanting to penetrate the inner walls
> (no chance of damaging a bulkhead).

< Sound of load Buzzer Going off > Wrong answer. Nope we carried shotguns'cause
they could fill your average passageway with lead. Training also included
using things like aiming low so pellets would bounce off the deck taking off
their legs. Heck when I was in the M14 was still the issue long arm.

Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:11:36 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Dead Astronauts

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:08:37 -0400 (EDT), Larry Hadley wrote:

>    The USSR, otoh, has had numerous casualties after liftoff and during
> reentry. Some of you may recall that the USSR recovered their capsules on
> land.

I believe the Soviet space program casualty list total is four
(officially, anyways).  The Soviet navy has a fleet of satellite
communication vessels named after dead cosmonauts so I guess it all
depends on your definition of the word "fleet".

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:01:33 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

lugh1@juno.com wrote:

>LOL , I can see alot of your points fellas don't get me wrong , but I
>still really dislike the U.S. being deligated to a secondary role .

And I can't stand the fact that the UK is *ignored* through most of 2300's
material, but that doesn't stop me appreciating the game as having a great
and different feel to anything else that's around. Why should the US be the
dominant power in three hundred years?  The 1WW and 2WW broke the UK's
economic and military dominance of the world. 	Why shouldn't the 3WW in
the T2000 and T2300 timeline break the US. I accept that you don't like it,
but that doesn't invalidate the timeline of the game which presents a
different and interesting place in which to entertain your players.

However, if you don't like it, you don't play it - like me and TNE! ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:23:53 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re:American Jingoism

Glenn wrote:

>Quote the Lindsay:

>The South African Defence Force had a non-official motto of Cairo in 30,
>meaning the SADF could fight its way to, and conquer, Cairo in 30 Days. Not
>many people doubt they could have done it. The USA could have a motto of
>Europe in 365, sort of. The Euros would not use their nukes on themselves,
>as, other than Britain and Russia, none of them could even reach the USA.

Ahem. Bearing in mind that this all relates to 2300...

What about the French SSBNs? And they do have a couple of nice carriers...
So that is 3 sets of nukes stopping US global domination. And somehow, I
think that the French Government would have less of a resistance to using
them than the UK, as they don't have the same cultural heritage.

Obs: In the BBC series 'Yes minister" it was commented that the UK nuclear
deterent existed because of the 'real' enemy. Not the Soviets, but the
French! ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:11:43 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

On Sun, 14 Sep 97 14:36:21 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 09/14/97 at 06:27 AM,  jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay) said:
> 
> >> Anything past what it takes to cause compression ignition (like in a
> >> diesel) is wasted isn't it?
> 
> >Interestingly put, but yes, this is true.  Diesels run compression ratios
> >in the neighbourhood of 18:1 while gasoline engines are closer to 8:1 or
> >9:1.  High performance motors run higher ratios, but also require fuel
> >with gobs more octane to compensate.  Higher compression ratios aren't
> >really a "waste", exactly-- more like "counter productive".
> 
> Diminishing returns? ;->  I think we are *well* over the top of the curve
> on IC/EC engines, already. There's only so much extra *useable* power you
> can squeeze out of these reactions so I don't think you'll see much
> improvement from IC or EC in the future.  I could, of course, be wrong. ;->

You'd be surprised ;)  Actually, what is holding back the IC engine is
not any inherent design "thingies", but the demands of the people that
use them (who needs to go from 0-60 mph in under 5 seconds just to
pick up the kids from daycare).  Gas economy and emissions are also
major factors :)

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:11:41 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: How to get things done!

On Sun, 14 Sep 97 14:28:20 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> On 09/14/97 at 04:36 AM,  kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne) said:
> 
> >IMHO: Space Shuttle is the most stupid thing in US space
> >	program. Because anythink goes up cost money, anythink going
> >	down (landing) is wasted money. The payload of the shuttle
> >	tender would make a space station a cheap side effect if
> >	the astronautes reenter athmosphere in a light drop capsule,
> >	while the rest is staying in orbit and mounted to a station.
> 
> Hum, well, I don't love what the Shuttle was turned into, but I *do*
> support inexpensive and reusable, so we need to get back more than just the
> crew.  The engines are the really expensive hardware part of any liquid
> fueled rocket, so you don't want to leave them up there where they won't do
> any good.  So, what needs to de-orbit for reuse are the engine, the
> controls for the engines, the crew, and enough of the framework to hold all
> of it together, and in reality that means..more or less..the whole thing.

I believe the reason why the Shuttle is so large is because the
military demanded that it be built that way.  If NASA had had their
way, it would have been about half that size.  The Soviets copied the
Shuttle virtually "bolt-for-bolt" (and who says that isn't flattery :)
but it never made it past the piggy-back tests.  The EU (French?) have
a much smaller shuttle design in the works, as do the Japanese, IIRC.



James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:45:13 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

Sam wrote:

>Wrong answer!, the TL-15 Xboat was jump-6, it is from several "canon"
>sources.
>If you would like I can start quoting the sources.

Hmm... Lets start with the Imperial Encyclopedia...
<quote>
Express Boats: Rapid communication ships designed to make optimum use of
jump technology in communicating information within the Imperium. Because
the Imperium is so large, ordinary communication must depend on ships
travelling along established trade routes, making Regina nearly 4 years out
from the Imperial Core. The express boat (abbreviated Xboat) system,
established originally in 624 and expanded to cover the entire imperium by
718, reduces this communication time by nearly 75 percent.

Selected locations along major trade routes are established as sites for
express stations, which are orbital facilities which service and refuel the
Xboats on their communications runs. As an Xboat arrives in a system, it
beams its recorded data to the express station, which then retransmits it
to an Xboat standing by for a jump outsystem; Time between jumps is almost
always less than four hours and has been recorded at under seven minutes
making the speed of communication nearly the speed of jump (since Xboats
carry jump-4 drives, speeds near four parsecs per week). In practice, this
speed is somewhat reduced by the fact that trade routes do not follow
straight lines and that not all jumps are made at jump-4. Nonetheless, the
system achieves approximately jump-2.6 per week.
</quote>

Now, Traders and Gunboats (S7) describes a jump 4 X boat.

One of the other CT supplements (FFW?) mentions the experimental deployment
of drop tanked J6 (?) Xboats to half the journey time..

Another (Twilights Peak) mentions a rerouting of the Xboat link to improve
communications to Regina (but this doesn't happen by MT).

MT describes a J4 network with separate J6 naval and imperial couriers.

I think the sources you are refering to are TNE with the upgrade of the
Xboat net to the Xweb??

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:11:03 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825

Eris, you said that we needed to open up space. I agree.

We MUST open up space, before the downward slide begins. We're stagnating,
more interested in hair care products than 'doing things'. We need new
frontiers - the mind, the oceans, space.
It can be done. It must be done.
You're not the only one who believes. 

Martin, in a rare rabid moment.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:24:53 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825

>I'd put the 30mm machine-guns in the "maniac" category!  After all,
> the A-10 packs a 30mm cannon that can pierce tank armour :)

Said James.

'Shit' I said. 

I meant to say .30 Machineguns, and not 30mm MGs.

I'd not really want to be trying to fire a 30mm automatic weapon from the
shoulder, even in battle dress!!!!

The A-10, after all, slows down appreciably when firing its hypervelocity
30mm. Imagine what even a scaled-down version would do!

Forget the maniac section, let's put 30mm rapid-fire cannon in the
'where's-the-drive-section-gone?' section. 

Sorry. My mistake. I simply meant GPMGs. But what a lovely thought....

By the way, did you hear about the gunsmith in Turkey who built a 30mm
pistol? The round will stop an APC at fifty yards... kills the firer
instantly by shattering every bone in his body... has burst fire
capability... and a shoulder stock for sniping use... heehee....
(incoherent ravings continue. The writer has gone into Big Gun Overload
Please ignore.....)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:51:30 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bruce's Question etc.

 Bruce Johnson:

You asked where I found that article. I'm sorry, but I can't remember. It
was in an issue of 'Combat Handguns' a friend loaned my sometime around
1987 (I think). They did a series of tests on big handguns, including the
one I mentioned. The .44 Desert Eagle was a tiny cousin comeared to some -
I remember a mention of a scope rated for .44 Magnum becoming banana shaped
due to recoil and some photos of the editor with blood running down her
face from where one of the guns had leaped up and bit her forehead with its
foresight. She normally shoots a .44, they said, and just wasn't ready for
this beast (!!!!!). She did, however, finish the tests, which makes her a
better man than me!

Unfortunately, I just can't remember the magazine - this feature stuck in
my tiny brain.

There's a chance I might still have the mag lying around in with all the
stuff I boxed when I moved. I'll take a look, but don't hold your breath!

Sorry I couldn't be more help. 

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:24:53 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825

>I'd put the 30mm machine-guns in the "maniac" category!  After all,
> the A-10 packs a 30mm cannon that can pierce tank armour :)

Said James.

'Shit' I said. 

I meant to say .30 Machineguns, and not 30mm MGs.

I'd not really want to be trying to fire a 30mm automatic weapon from the
shoulder, even in battle dress!!!!

The A-10, after all, slows down appreciably when firing its hypervelocity
30mm. Imagine what even a scaled-down version would do!

Forget the maniac section, let's put 30mm rapid-fire cannon in the
'where's-the-drive-section-gone?' section. 

Sorry. My mistake. I simply meant GPMGs. But what a lovely thought....

By the way, did you hear about the gunsmith in Turkey who built a 30mm
pistol? The round will stop an APC at fifty yards... kills the firer
instantly by shattering every bone in his body... has burst fire
capability... and a shoulder stock for sniping use... heehee....
(incoherent ravings continue. The writer has gone into Big Gun Overload
Please ignore.....)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 18:36:40 -0400
From: Eric Freitas <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: getting stuff done

At 02:56 PM 9/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>The *real* problem is that those with the power to *do* anything don't care
>one whit about man's expansion into space! 

And Bill Gates (images of high c rocks dancing in my head...) has enough 
money to fund his own SSTO development program with pocket change.  His 
idea of 'man's expansion into space' stops just the other side of Teledesic.

Wouldn't it be great though if Bill funded Boeing's development of the
(MD) Delta Clipper?  I'm not sure that even Loyds would provide insurance for
a spacecraft that develops GPF's when you tell it to extend the landing gear.

Eric Freitas

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:16:52 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 04:14 PM 9/14/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I don't own T2K anymore (it was....."borrowed" from me) but I'd like to get
>it again and do up some of the more modern armored vehicles (ie T-90, T-80UT,
>the Arena Anti-Missile system), BMP-3, etc....).
>Funny how all the new stuff is coming out of Russia neh?  And some of it
>(T-90, BMP-3) is said (by US military testers) to be superior to current US
>gear.  Hmm, so if you know if T2K has a vehicle construction system let me
>know.  Or if you have some of the books for sale let me know too.

The T-90 is a myth.  Also known as the FST-1, it was the product of the
CIS'a worst case scenario.  The T-80 is the best the Soviets ever had, it
even that tank is kind of weak.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:53:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Aslan

Quoth CardSharks@aol.com:
> `What are the names of the 29 in about 100 Imperial?

As a baseline, here are some notes from DGP's "Solomani & Aslan".  Page 55
states "of the original 29 clans which formed the Tlaukhu, 19 clans are
still members of that body."  CT's Alien Module 1 confirms that (p. 5),
and adds that multiple clans have occupied the ten changing positions.

From what I can tell from this figure and the written history, that means
the original (or at least pre-100) members definitely comprise clans:
Yerlyaruiwo, Khaukheairl, Syoisuis, Tralyeaeawi, Eakhtiyo.

Clan Hrawoao was one of the four major groups engaged in the Aslan Border
Wars, and signed the Peace of Ftahalr in 380.  That's the first time I see
it mentioned, though they must have existed for some time to be one of the
major clans.

Uiktawa, Ftawsteaoihalr, Hweolriya, Iykhyasea, and Faowaou hold extensive
presence in the rimward Hierate.  Their age is not specified.  Aokhalte
holds part of the central Hierate, and may be of some antiquity (they,
along with Sahao' and Ouokhoi, are desperately overpopulated for their
existing worlds by the CT era).  Clans Seieakh, Akatoiloh, and We'okurir
hold worlds far from the bulk of the Hierate, and are thus likely of
recent origin.

Two specific transitions are listed:

Hlyueawi -- replaced the Uawairlew in 652 Imperial
Ikhtealyo -- vaulted into the Tlaukhu on the strength of the dustspice
	trade and trans-Rift expansion in 380 Imperial.  The clan they
	replaced is not listed.

Hope this helps!

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:44:12 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

>> I don't like the idea of ships in J-space actually following courses in
>> N-space which somehow interacts with N-space objects; it leaves a loophole
>> for ships in jump to use this to communicate with, attack, or be attacked
>> by other objects in N-space or in jump. Jump drive begins to look like Star
>> Trek's warp drive.
>
>I don't see how communication or attacks would be possible if the ship
>is only affected by the natural gravity of N-space objects.

It's possible because the gravitational interaction goes both ways; if the
ship interacts with the "natural gravity of N-space objects", then those
objects interact with the ship.

Imagine a matrix of gravitic detectors, each side hundreds of kilometers
across, in deep space between two systems with heavy jump-traffic. As ships
zip by following their N-space courses the matrix is infuenced by their
infintesimal gravity the same way "natural gravity" influences the ships.
Analyzing the speed and direction of the influences will tell the jump
number and N-space course of the ship. This gives you a pretty good idea of
their origin and destination. If gravitational effects can precipitate a
ship from jump, or destroy it if large enough, you can attack ships in jump
using a large enough artificial gravitational field. Since J-space is
2-dimensional, it is possible to construct a gravitational "fence" in
J-space.

Put a gravitic device on board the ship which emits a modulated gravity
pulse. The matrix can detect these modulations and decode them as the ship
passes through while in jump. Now ships in jump can send messages. Then put
a gravitic sensor on the ship and scatter specially encoded gravitic
emitters throughout the matrix. The ship can detect the emitters and decode
them as it passes through the matrix. Now you can communicate with ships in
jump. If you can carry out electronic warfare (jamming, hacking, data
piracy) in the fraction of a second the ship passes through the matrix, you
can do so while the ship is in jump.

If you can 'plot' jump courses to avoid N-space objects, and there is a
mapping between N-space and J-space, then you change your J-space course as
well. If you can do this, you can match your J-space course with that of
another ship in jump. Both ships in jump can use the gravitic devices to
create gravitational effects in their corresponding N-space location, and
therefore communicate with each other. If the ships travel at the same jump
speed they can communicate the entire time they are in jump.

These effects are completely antithetical to the background of Traveller.
They are the main reason I dislike the idea of ships in jump having to
follow N-space courses.

Another reason I dislike the "N-space course" idea is that N-space is
3-dimensional while J-space is 2-dimensional. Even if we assume the ship
follows some kind of 2D to 3D mapping in N-space, it seems unlikely that
course would be a simple straight line in N-space.

>We did some figuring a while back. The formula that caused the least
>hassles with reality involved an inverse cube law (just like tidal
>forces).
>
>Roughly, you figure that the property (call it X) is calculated like this:
>
>X = GM/(r^3)
>
>Where G = gravitional constant (6.673e-11 N m^2/kg^2)
>      M = mass of body
>      r = distance from body.

[snip]

>Also note that we have a nicely "round" figure to use for the official
>safety margins:
>
>"100 dia" actually means 2e-13 s^-2
>" 10 dia" actually means 2e-10 s^-2

Tres cool. This is now part of my campaign.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:39:59 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

What I meant by there being no connection with Jump Space and Normal
Space, is after the rift is created and the ship enters it, the realm
loses it's tenuous contact with our realm.  Then when a ship emerges,
they briefly contact once again.

Sorry I wasn't more clear.  :)

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:45:25 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

AI copy protection?  I doubt even the most hard core company would waste
the
effort that would entail just to make sure Joe Blow does not get a
bootleg
copy of Gunnery-1.  Especially in the Imperium there must be BILLIONS of

hackers all wanting to be the first to crack the new copy protection.
And a
billions a lot of hackers......


Well Ken, I was thinking AI would be pretty cheap and commonplace in the
Imperium.

I did get a big kick out of your comment about hacking a copy of
gunnery-1.  Very funny.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1826
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1827



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships
Re: American Jingoism
Re: More on T2000 and T2300ad
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Jump in Traveller
Access to CT,MT & TNE
Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD
Traveller Supplements I'd like to see
Re: American Jingoism
Re:Get a clue Harold
Skill 12 autopilots!?
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825
Re: Aslan
Re:Berry
FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle
Re: FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle
Re: America 2300ad
Re:American Jingoism
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825
Re: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 01:09:32 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:05:34 -0700, Evyn MacDude wrote:

> MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> > I assume that the reason security patrols aboard supercarriers etc carry
> > shotguns in something to do with not wanting to penetrate the inner walls
> > (no chance of damaging a bulkhead).
> 
> < Sound of load Buzzer Going off > Wrong answer. Nope we carried shotguns'cause
> they could fill your average passageway with lead. Training also included
> using things like aiming low so pellets would bounce off the deck taking off
> their legs. Heck when I was in the M14 was still the issue long arm.

Any truth to a TML posting six months or so ago stating that they were
for anti-terrorist or anti-boarding party use?  (The troops using the
shotguns would storm a room and the rest of the crew were trained to
hit the deck at the same time.  The only ones left standing were the
bad guys, who became easy targets.)

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 01:09:30 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: American Jingoism

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:23:53 +0100, SD Mooney wrote:

> Glenn wrote:
> 
> >Quote the Lindsay:
> 
> >The South African Defence Force had a non-official motto of Cairo in 30,
> >meaning the SADF could fight its way to, and conquer, Cairo in 30 Days. Not
> >many people doubt they could have done it. The USA could have a motto of
> >Europe in 365, sort of. The Euros would not use their nukes on themselves,
> >as, other than Britain and Russia, none of them could even reach the USA.
> 
> Ahem. Bearing in mind that this all relates to 2300...

FWIW, I did not right the above paragraph; Glenn Crawford did.  His
last post didn't quote my posting very well at all and his entire post
looked as if I had wrote it (ie: no ">" leading each line of quoted
text).

> What about the French SSBNs? And they do have a couple of nice carriers...
> So that is 3 sets of nukes stopping US global domination. And somehow, I
> think that the French Government would have less of a resistance to using
> them than the UK, as they don't have the same cultural heritage.

I agree.

> Obs: In the BBC series 'Yes minister" it was commented that the UK nuclear
> deterent existed because of the 'real' enemy. Not the Soviets, but the
> French! ;-)

That just goes without saying ;)

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:28:02 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: More on T2000 and T2300ad

well you have givin a number of good explanations now prove them .

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:12:01 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 11:01 PM 14/09/97 +0100, you wrote:

>
>However, if you don't like it, you don't play it - like me and TNE! ;-)

<shakes head sadly>

another attack on TNE?

Harry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:00:44 +0000
From: "Bill Hopper" <whopper@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

> From:          "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
> The energies involved in tearing space open to the hyperspatial
> dimension would explain the need for doing so a certain distance from
> any gravity well, otherwise you would de-stabilize stars or destroy
> planets.

Or, more likely, the stars or planets would de-stabilize or destroy 
_you_!

WKH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:10:00 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Access to CT,MT & TNE

Well, If all the old Traveller material is out of print and damn hard to
get, then why not scan it in and make it accessible to all (with the
permission of Mr Miller of course). Even the king of copyright T$R is
doing just this with out of print AD&D material. Everyone could scan in
what they have and post it to a central archive (with all known
corrections fixed if possible). I'd just love to see some of the CT stuff
- - being the only system that actually felt complete in all its
supplements, MT stopping too soon and TNE being cut short.

D.Moodie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:30:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD

lugh1@juno.com

jim chip mckee said:

> I would like to know exactly how much thought and research went
> into the background and probability but it looks a little thin to me .

We did a great deal. Considering the time and the place (we designed the game
in the early 1980s) I think we came up with a consistent and fairly
reasonable sequence of events that took us to where we needed the game to go.
We wanted to come up with a scenario more unusual and interesting than the
standard "Commies through the Fulda Gap" WWIII scenario, and we succeeded
very nicely, I think. 

Have you read the Twilight: 2000 background (as presented in the basic rules
book and in the sourcebook _Howling Wilderness_)? The scenario is explained
in a great deal more detail than has been presented here, and covers a number
of your objections.

Loren Wiseman,
     Twilight: 2000 Line Manager -- Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:34:31 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see

This a re-work of a post I made for a thread in the GDW/TNE days.  Flavor
for T4.x and GURPS:Traveller.

  What I'd like to see is Aliens of the Marches, Volume I (Vargr & Aslan).
That would do me the most good personally.   My campain runs in the Spinward Marches,
post 5th FW.  No Rebellion, no Virus.  This should be a GURPS:Traveller
early edition.  Perhaps two seperate books.  The Vargr really deserve their
own book in a Spinward Marches campain setting.  Other good books for that
region would be the dedicated Zhodani book, and the Darrian/Sword Worlds book.

  Another book on my wish list is FF&S: The Return of Gearheads .  This is
the manual that covers some ot the vital stuff that the first one missed.
"Wet" ship design, robots, primitive transport & genetic engineering are
the topics that leap to mind.  A good add on would be "liftwood" rules for
"wet" ship design and Ether Proppeller rules.   That should please the pith
helmet crowd with only a page or two.  Just how is that GURPS:SPACE:1889
push coming along :-)

  Now on to Journal articles I'd like to see...

   Imperial uniform designs.  This has been covered in sources before, but
could use a recap in an offical publication.  M0 and G:T books for this.

   Critters.  A few pages on some basic animals.  Herd animals, work
beasts, luxury pets, riding animals, etc.  A good spot for an artist with
sketchpad full of animal beasts to provide colour to the article.

  Standards for non-Imperial governments.  A page or two on their standards
can put the Gearhead squad to work churning out some basic equipment.  For
example, the standard Solmani Marine issue Gauss Rifle in use between years
X & Y, fired a XxYmm round and mounted a XXmm grenade Launcher.  The
Zhodani issue side armed fired a fu round and used magazines of bar
capacity.  



 




    
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:58:05 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: American Jingoism

Dom
about those french boomers , I bet some one in DC knows there exact
locations at any givin time . :>} 

jim mckee

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:58:05 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:Get a clue Harold

thats great harold , continue buying into the media enforced belief that
alabama and the south is full of racist just iching to hang some one .
note where the militia nazis live , michigan pennsylvania , upstate new
york .. I am from the south and I had never seen racism till I visited
new york , so shut your pie hole .

jim mckee
proud southerner
T4 fan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:54:00 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Skill 12 autopilots!?

I was designing a drone vehicle using the CSC rules and ran into an
anomaly. According to the VDS, an autopilot has a Pilot skill of "half its
TL (round down) plus twice the rating of the computer running its autopilot
software." Now, for my TL 12 drone with a R3 computer, that would be pilot
12. This level of skill is completely off the scale, and even if I used
this as the target number autopilots would be superior to a typical pilot.

First of all, I have no intention of allowing a skill 12 autopilot. In my
campaign I will use TL/5 for skill level and computer rating as the
'characteristic'. Are there autopilot rules in FFS2? I got into a big
argument with my players when I didn't let their ship provide backup for
them under computer control. In my campaign there is no AI so computers
cannot completely replace human crews. However, an autopilot should be able
to perform some simple ship operations. How do other GMs handle automated
vehicle operation?

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:57:02 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825

At 11:11 PM 14/09/97 +0100, you wrote:

>We MUST open up space, before the downward slide begins. We're stagnating,
>more interested in hair care products than 'doing things'. We need new
>frontiers - the mind, the oceans, space.
>It can be done. It must be done.
>You're not the only one who believes. 
>
>Martin, in a rare rabid moment.

I think we all believe... that's why we play Traveller!

I had an arguement with a non-sci-fi friend the other day, she was saying
that we should not increase any space programs because of the amount of
damage that rocket launches do to the ozone layer.

I tried o tell her that any damage is minimal compared to other industries,
and the returns were worth it.... but I didn't come out as convincing enough!

But this is part of the attitude which is going to limit space exploration
in the future.

There goes my ambition to go hang gliding on Mars!

Harry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:44:54 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Aslan

>>        Although all clans are technically patriarchies, some afford a
>>greater
>>degree of clan power to females. Clan names beginning with a vowel are more
>>female oriented.
>
>I have to say I dislike this idea -- I much preferred the description of
>Aslan society being fundamentally patriarchal and paternalistic, with the
>female-run "corporations" borrowing the model of the patriarchal clan and
>using bonds of fictive kinship to link their personnel.

I like this idea. It gives some variety to the Aslan and makes them not so
steriotypical.

From a dramatic perspective you have to throw a curveball to your players
once in a while, and a more female-oriented clan could do this. From a
realism standpoint I find it hard to believe the Alsan are so conformist
that they have never had any female-dominated clans. "Fundamentally
patriarchical" does not mean exclusively patriarchical. Consider all the
weird government types and social communities that have existed on Earth. I
can't believe that the billions of Aslan are all in utterly conventional
social groups.

If I could make one suggestion for new material on the Alsan, it would be
to play up their individualism and the mercantile aspects of their society.
This would add depth to Aslan society and make them seem less like
"Klingons in fur".


- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:58:05 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:Berry

So because civ. sites are nuked this allows the mexicans and pals to role
into the U.S. ? 

here is a theory . the Mil gov. civ. gov. and free america are fighting ,
mexico invades the U.S. . the warring factions set aside thier deferences
and gang bang the invaders 
this IMHO is more probable , none of the different factions wants to lose
the texas oil fields or suffer the humiliation of foreigners on native
U.S. [ for the past couple hundred years anyway ] soil . maybe the
factions go back at each other after they deal with the invaders , thats
a whole different scenario .

also the U.S. army stock piles parts and fuel enough for years of war . I
know because I have seen these ware houses before . also in time of dire
need [ such as an invasion of U.S. soil ] every american would be
expected to fight , and most of us possess fire arms not to mention the
militias and other para military groups that would fight a guerilla war
against the invaders .

I would fight . would you Mr. Berry ? this last question is to show that
americans have not lost thier will and we could defeat and hold off any
nation attempting to invade as well as project enough power to send said
invading power straight back to the stone age . in addition to american
tech. superiority don't short change the american peoples fighting spirit
.. especealy when defending thier homes ,

also I should not compare the 80's T2000 background with 90's tech and
military forces . short and simple the U.S. would most probably not bog
down in a ground war as our air superiority would sweep the enemy from
the sky , our combined arms would crush any resistance on the ground and
our navy would keep the sea clear for continued supply and troop movement
.. our arms and ammo factories would be moved to hidden and hard to target
areas and the populace would be put to work as well as on food and fuel
rations . even with this adversity I am sure the U.S. would not slip
behind any other nation on this mud ball and would reach pre war levels
quickly after the war . this nation has been planning for nuclear war for
decades and I am confident we could get through it as well or better than
is depicted in the T2000 / 2300AD back grounds . on the ending note , the
majority of the worlds economic health relies on the U.S. and if the U.S.
failed so would the economies of the world .

jim mckee
orlando fl
T4 fan 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:03:23 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle

	The inspirations for this one?  The quad-barreled nailgun in Quake,
Frederick Forsythe, the Questar 3.5" telescope (although the optical
characteristics on this thing's scope are different), and any number of
politicians and certain individuals who are beating off-topic dead horses
into holes in the pavement about the size of Meteor Crater in Arizona..:).

	I'd be interested to hear what the list's resident sniper has to
say about this thing.


"News Item, Gauss Enthusiast's Weekly, 05-250

FSA releases quad-barreled Extremely Long Range Gauss Sniper Rifle.

	Today, Famille Spofulam Armaments unveiled its latest gauss rifle
offering, a quad-barreled 3.25 mm sniper rifle system designated the
"Jackal-4".  It is an unconventional-looking weapon, to say the least.  It
sports 4 60-centimeter barrels, protected by lozenge-cross-sectioned dark
gray barrel shrouds, installed in a diamond configuration around an 87.5
centimeter long f/15 175mm aperture catadioptric telescope.  An
outwards-facing bulge at the end of each barrel holds individual gyroscopic
recoil compensators.  Short 5-dart magazines protrude outwards from the
four recievers like the legs of a stubby letter "x", and the weapon,
configured with a folding shock-absorbing stock, pistolgrip, and bipod, is
entirely gyrostabilized.

	The mission of the weapon is simple; to provide extreme accuracy at
extreme ranges, and to improve chances of hitting the target from several
kilometers out by configurable-pattern multi-round bursts directed by a
telescopic computerized predictive sight.

	The heart of the weapon is the huge computerized predictive
telescopic sight, which drives four individual servo-actuated mountings,
one for each barrel.  A keypad mounted on the forestock enables the shooter
to select one of several barrel alignments, which, guided by the
computerized rangefinding sight and servo mountings, places the four
simultaneously fired darts in various patterns; close burst (all darts
aimed at the same spot), three cross patterns of varying  pre-set
tightnesses and four more user-definable cross patterns.  As well, the
weapon can also place four darts in horizontal, vertical, or diagonal lines
of varying spread.  The weapon can fire in both single-shot (actually,
four-shot) mode and in VRF mode (with a theoretical cyclical rate of fire
of 4500 rpm from each barrel), the latter of which will spit 20 darts at
the target, in various patterns (including expanding-cross and longer
traverse line patterns to increase chances of hitting a moving target at
extreme ranges) in a brief 0.07 second.

	This flexibility in terms of burst pattern and rate of fire, when
combined with full-weapon gyro-stabilization, 6,000 m/s muzzle velocity,
long-range sighting system, and computerized predictive aiming
capabilities, is expected to result in a highly effective precision
long-range sniper rifle.

	At the weapon's unveiling, conducted at the extensive testing
grounds at Famille Spofulam's Sylean groundside facilities, the press were
given the chance to inspect the weapon (several of which were made
available for handling) first-hand.  After its rather menacingly futuristic
styling, the second thing that strikes the observer is the rifle's weight;
it masses nearly 37 kilos.  However, it is designed to be transported by a
two-person team and fired resting from a bipod, which alleviates somewhat
the weight problem.  As well, the weapon's extreme weight helps reduce
recoil; although its darts weigh only 0.54 grams apiece; four or twenty of
them departing at 6 kilometers/second produce significant recoil.

	After initial familiarization had taken place, the weapons, set up
on range benches, were loaded by Spofulam range attendants, and several
journalists invited to test-fire them at a series of Juice Bags (Imperial
Standard Ballistic Testing Dummies) standing anywhere from 500 meters
downrange... to 5 kilometers away, on a hillside across the valley.  The
more distant ones were equipped with revolving-strobe emergency headgear
and orange coveralls in order to aid with location.

	The firing process takes place as follows; after the weapon is
powered up, the shooter aims it manually, using iron sights and a 5X finder
scope to acquire the target.  Once target is placed within the finder's
reticule, the weapon-platform gyrostabilization is engaged and the
computerized sight's binocular eyepiece deploys.  Once the target is
spotted in the computerized sight's field of view, the firer stares
directly at the target and blinks twice; this designates the target.  The
sight then takes over, identifying the target, highlighting it, determining
and displaying range and time to target, and slews the four barrels
precisely onto target, whose motion it is capable of tracking via it's
predictive function.  It then adjusts the barrel alignment to the selected
burst pattern and displays it onto the target.  At closer ranges, within
800 meters or so, on stationary targets FSA recommends a four-round close
pattern; at extreme range on moving targets, a 20-round linear burst along
the direction of travel.

	Once target acquired and burst pattern selected, the shooter then
depresses the electronic trigger.  Recoil, due to the shock-absorbing stock
and individual gyroscopic recoil compensators on each barrel, is
surprisingly light for such a high-powered weapon.  As mentioned earlier,
the bipod and heavy overall weight help with this.  Hitting targets is
ridiculously easy; selecting an ISBTD about 2 km away (which, following
Spofulam tradition, bore a suspicious resemblance to Sir Arameth Gridlore),
I chose a 12-cm separation cross pattern centered on its torso, and pulled
the trigger.  A high-pitched quadruple mini sonic boom split the air, and
after an eerie, perceptible delay of nearly a third of a second, I saw the
ISBTD jerk violently backwards.  Its mounting swung it back to a standing
position, and I saw three flourescent green splotches of ISBTD Circulatory
Fluid Analogue spreading across its chest..."*




* In order to test this, I assumed a shooter with a DEX of 8 and Rifle-3
firing under KB v.2.0., at Extremely Long range (2 km).  This gave him a
base target number of 17 for a target number of 26 with the DM figured in,
on 8d6.  Results for a 4-round burst were: 25 (hit), 25 (hit again), 27
(miss), 25 (hit).  That'd be 27 dice worth of damage done to the target,
although there's a case for rolling each 9d6 damage roll separately.

T4 stats:

Name:	FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle
Damage:	9 (9.5 HE), _per barrel_
TL: 	12
Range: 	Long (183 m)
Shots: 	5 X 4 round bursts
Mass: 	36.86 kg loaded,30.38 kg empty
Reloads:6.48 kg per 4 5-round magazines
Cost: 	32,999 cr (jacked way up to reflect the weapon's wierdness)


	As far as using it in-game is concerned, I would simply suggest
giving it a massive positive difficulty modifier for use at ranges over
Short; in KB v.2.0 a +DM of about 9 or so would feel about right.  Other
task systems should use appropriate DM's.  I'd recommend imposing a
significant negative die modifier for use at Short or shorter ranges.
Also, I would suggest rolling individually for each round fired in
single-shot mode, and applying the VRF to-hit and damage bonuses when
firing it in VRF-burst mode.



FF&S2 numbers

FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle

Dart:

Cal/Length:		3.25 mm X 16.25 mm
Mass:			0.54 gr
Price:			0.02 cr regular, 0.04 cr HE, 0.06 cr HEAP

Barrel:

Muzzle Velocity:	6000 m/s
Barrel Length: 	60 cm
Barrel Mass:	1.8 kg			X4:		7.2
Barrel Price: 	1080			X4:		4320 cr
Muzzle Energy:	9720 j
Input Energy: 	19440 j

Reciever (VRF)

Mass: 		1.944 kg		X4:		7.76 kg
Price:			119.4 cr	X4:		477.6 cr
Length: 		44 cm

Stocks:

Hollow Pistolgrip:				0.1 kg, 25 cr
TL-9 Shock Absorbing  stock			0.2 kg, 75 cr, 0.85 modrecoil
 Gryoscopic recoil compensation (X4)		2 kg, 1200 cr, 0.5 modrecoil

Sights & stuff:

TL-12 f/15 175mm Maksutov-Cassegrain telescope: Mass: 5 kg, 4,000 cr
Integrated custom Advanced Computer sight for above: .8 kg, 8000 cr
Weapon platform Gyro-stabilization : 2.5 kg, 3000 cr
Custom TL-12 computerguided servos: 2kg, 1000cr, X4:	8kg, 4000cr
Bipod: 3.3 kg

Feed (5-round box magazine):

Battery mass: 	0.58 kg			X4:		2.33 kg
Mag mass:	1.62 kg			X4:		 6.48

Evaluation:

Length: 		109 cm stock folded
Bulk: 			9
Mass:			36.86 kg
Price:			32999 cr
Range:			183 m (Long)
Damage:			9 dice (per barrel) dart, 9.5 HE (per barrel)
Recoil (single shot):	3 total (0.7227/barrel)
Recoil (5-round burst):	7.5


Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 00:24:09 -0400
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Re: FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle

Darroch, I thought you had no time on your hands because of Bar School.  
Obviously, this is not the case.

(Oh, and remember; *I'm* running the show again; it might not be worth 
your while to come up with any more of these little nightmares. . . .)


Ross

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 97 23:12:10 -0600
From: Mark <bdmahan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

>Hmm, so if you know if T2K has a vehicle construction system let me
>know.

Fire Fusion and Steel fron Traveller:TNE.

Mind are like parachutes.  They only function when they are open. - Sir 
James Dewar

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 01:06:03 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re:American Jingoism

SD Mooney writes:

>Ahem. Bearing in mind that this all relates to 2300...
>
>What about the French SSBNs? And they do have a couple of nice carriers...
>So that is 3 sets of nukes stopping US global domination. And somehow, I
>think that the French Government would have less of a resistance to using
>them than the UK, as they don't have the same cultural heritage.

   Assuming a scenario where the US Navy is intact, the French aircraft
carriers would be lucky to make it past the Azores before being sunk. 
Assuming an intact US Navy and if surprise could be achieved, Los
Angeles-class attack submarines could sink them *in port*.  IIRC, the
French carriers would rate as light carriers in the American Navy--they
are far from being in the same class as the Nimitz (perhaps close to the
Ranger in size?), and the aircraft they carry wouldn't last long against
Hornets and Tomcats.

   French SSBNs are inferior to Soviet and American submarines.  I don't
know what their boat captains are like, but similar to the aircraft
carriers, I doubt they could get past the Azores--far from missile
range.

   I'm getting a mental picture of what the Seawolf would do to shipping
off Brest.  Ouch....

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:23:01 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825

I think we all believe... that's why we play Traveller!

I had an arguement with a non-sci-fi friend the other day, she was
saying
that we should not increase any space programs because of the amount of
damage that rocket launches do to the ozone layer.

I tried o tell her that any damage is minimal compared to other
industries,
and the returns were worth it.... but I didn't come out as convincing
enough!

But this is part of the attitude which is going to limit space
exploration
in the future.

There goes my ambition to go hang gliding on Mars!

Harry

Read a book by Dr. Jerry Pournell titled, "A Step Farther Out".  In his
book, Dr. Pournell details how to get into space cheaply and safely.  He
goes on to say how important doing that is.  He's done all the research,
calculated everything to the tightest details, and provides the
information and formulas for the reader to do so as well.  Nothing is
assumed.

We have 79 years left to get out into space, or we will not have the
financial and material resourves to do it.  When this happens, our
technological civilization is doomed, along with 2/3rds of the world's
population, which WILL die.

2-300 years after that 79 year mark, we will no longer have the
un-renewable resources in order to run our high tech society.  Without
high technology, we will not be able to feed all the world's population.

The time to start for space is NOW, while we still can.  If we miss this
79 year envelope, then we have doomed future generations to death.  We
have a responsibility to think for the future.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 00:03:55 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD

On 09/14/97 at 10:30 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:

>> I would like to know exactly how much thought and research went
>> into the background and probability but it looks a little thin to me .

>We did a great deal. Considering the time and the place (we designed the
>game in the early 1980s) I think we came up with a consistent and fairly
>reasonable sequence of events that took us to where we needed the game to
>go. We wanted to come up with a scenario more unusual and interesting than
>the standard "Commies through the Fulda Gap" WWIII scenario, and we
>succeeded very nicely, I think. 

I think you did too.

What Tw2K is doing on the TML, I don't know, but I enjoyed (still enjoy)
the game..both versions. ;->  

I didn't *like* the setting...you weren't supposed to *like* being stuck in
WWIII and it's aftermath...and I didn't think some of the events in the
continential US were too likely, but the games that came out of Tw2K were
some of the best non-Traveller games I've ever been in.  Sure you could
play them as "shoot-em-ups"..and create new characters every
session;->...but where these games stood out for me was the *roleplaying*
of people playing in what *could* very well have been their nightmare of a
future. Playing in the rubble of their hometowns. Trying to survive. Get
home. Deal with what home had become. 

Yep, Tw2K was good.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1827
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1828



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad
Re:Berry
Re: Access to CT,MT & TNE
Re: Aslan
Re: Kenneth's comments
Re: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD
Re: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD
Gravitics and Fusion technology
Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD Mailing lists?
Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc. 
Re: Aslan
Re:  Kenneth's Chargen Tweaks
Low and high gravity humans
Re: Kenneth's tweak.
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1819
Re: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1822
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1822

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:41:04 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad

>Unless you somehow think that B-1's can burn raw crude oil.

Hey, those jet-skis did in Waterworld!  8^D

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:44:13 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re:Berry

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 lugh1@juno.com wrote:

> So because civ. sites are nuked this allows the mexicans and pals to role
> into the U.S. ? 

It will IMHO keep the US population occupied with other issues that
prevents them from taking part of the defence of Texas and Suthern
California.
 
> here is a theory . the Mil gov. civ. gov. and free america are fighting ,
> mexico invades the U.S. . the warring factions set aside thier deferences
> and gang bang the invaders 

But they are not fighting openly. They are skrimishing on their borders,
and more than enough detained with feeding the population. scrounging for
supplies and so on. They are in no way equipt morally or physiacly to
prevent the invasion, again IMHO.

> this IMHO is more probable , none of the different factions wants to lose
> the texas oil fields or suffer the humiliation of foreigners on native
> U.S. [ for the past couple hundred years anyway ] soil . maybe the
> factions go back at each other after they deal with the invaders , thats
> a whole different scenario .
> 
> also the U.S. army stock piles parts and fuel enough for years of war . I
> know because I have seen these ware houses before . also in time of dire
> need [ such as an invasion of U.S. soil ] every american would be
> expected to fight , and most of us possess fire arms not to mention the
> militias and other para military groups that would fight a guerilla war
> against the invaders .
> 

I think most of this stock pile has been sent overseas with the national
guard and all the other troops. Also I would suspect there not beeing
enough transportation or fuel to move any significant portion of this pile
anywhere. Remeber that only Milgov is capable of feeding the population
which now lives scattered outside the cities.

> I would fight . would you Mr. Berry ? 

I it stands between harvesting your field to give your family food on the
table and travelling to Texas to fight a battle, I think most would choose
the first one. This is the thing with nuclear strikes. They take out the
infrastructure of the nation and forces the population to become
selfsufficant. That is going to take the fighting will out of any nation.

> this last question is to show that
> americans have not lost thier will and we could defeat and hold off any
> nation attempting to invade as well as project enough power to send said
> invading power straight back to the stone age . in addition to american
> tech. superiority don't short change the american peoples fighting spirit
> . especealy when defending thier homes ,

But since most of the soldiers are overseas, the equipment not readily at
hand, the infrastructure destroyed, do the Texans really care who calls
themself rulers of the land they live on. How getting food and other
necessities is a more important question. I also seem to remeber that
Texas pulled out of the US during the civil wars, but I might be wrong.

> 
> also I should not compare the 80's T2000 background with 90's tech and
> military forces . short and simple the U.S. would most probably not bog
> down in a ground war as our air superiority would sweep the enemy from
> the sky , our combined arms would crush any resistance on the ground and
> our navy would keep the sea clear for continued supply and troop movement

But the air superiority is taken out with the limited nuclear strikes on
both sides. So when the Commies attack through Poland there is few
airports or fields, and even fewer ports for the ships. Also don't
underestimate the Soviet submarines. That is going to be a severe thorn in
the US Navys side.

> . our arms and ammo factories would be moved to hidden and hard to target
> areas and the populace would be put to work as well as on food and fuel
> rations . 

How do you move them when the local infrastructure is destroyed by atomic
bombs. Moving tons of equipment when there are no roads, no gasstations
and little gasoline it gets pretty though.

> even with this adversity I am sure the U.S. would not slip
> behind any other nation on this mud ball and would reach pre war levels
> quickly after the war . 

In the T2000 scenario, US was the county hit hardest by both the nuclear
strikes and the ground wars all over the planet. A country where a large
portion of the young are trapped overseas is going to have a real hard
time rebuilding.
 
> this nation has been planning for nuclear war for
> decades and I am confident we could get through it as well or better than
> is depicted in the T2000 / 2300AD back grounds . on the ending note , the
> majority of the worlds economic health relies on the U.S. and if the U.S.
> failed so would the economies of the world .

I don't think any government on this planet is prepared for a nuclear war.
It is just propaganda IMHO. Nuclear war would devestate to much. Loss of
most computers from the EMP is just a biginning. Can you imagine the US
without Internet and computers. :-)

> jim mckee
> orlando fl
> T4 fan 

Just voicing my maybe not so humble opinion on this matter :-)

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 03:43:21 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Access to CT,MT & TNE

, MT stopping too soon

thank the gods that game reeked specealy the star ship system and combat
, I never could figure out how much a trader could carrie as I was used
to tons and MT use cubic meters , and as we all know a cubic meter of one
thing is not the same as a cubic meter of another .

 and TNE being cut short.

crappy rules , if TNE had used something like the T4 rules it would have
been better IMHO , also a book I would like to see would be a TNE
campaign book for T4 .
what do you think about it ??

>D.Moodie
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:45:26 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Aslan

I agree that it doesn't make sense for Aslan clan names reflect
the amount of female decision making.  If woman have enough power that
they can demand it be publicly reflected, the patriarchical nature is
questiononalbe.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:40:19 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Kenneth's comments

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> Kenneth: I tried to mail you directly, failed, so I'm replying to your
> reply here:
> I don't like Dragonlance etc, but then I don't like D&D all that much.
> 
> TNE: Actually I agree with your comments, for the most part. I used my own

Thanks for the comments!

> I hope to see Traveller fiction soon, but that's mainly because I hope to
> be writing it!

I don't know if you are interested, but I've written a few Traveller
stories myself.

If you'd like to see two of them, you can find them on Jeff's Freelance
Traveller page.  You can link there from the IG link page.

Don't be too hard on them though.  I originally wrote them for my
players.  They are first drafts and could probably use some work in
places.

But, if you like to read Traveller, check them out and let me know what
you think.

Thanks,

Kenneth.

> 
> Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 03:43:21 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD

>
>Have you read the Twilight: 2000 background (as presented in the basic 
>rules book and in the source book _Howling Wilderness_)? The scenario is

>explained in a great deal more detail than has been presented here, and
covers a 
>number of your objections.

actually I have read numerous times including once tonight [ insomnia is
a pain ] and I must clarify some things . it seems the debate has been
dragged all over from the starting point which was my dislike of the
2300AD treatment of the U.S. 

	IN the T2000 background france was also listed as nuked by the
soviets stateing that all french ports and refineries were hit in order
to deny thier use to NATO forces . I really think that being nuked would
goad france into retaliation not to mention the french and european
economy grinding down to nothing without U.S. backing and the euros
starving with out imports from the U.S. and other nations abroad as
europe does not produce nearly enough food stuffs to feed its people .
	all of this does not stop the T2000 background from being
reasonably believable ,  unless you count the wild mexican armored
columns blitzing through texas and california [ mexico possess  no armor
of consequence at this time ] and the fact that the remainder of U.S.
forces were in texas at the time . 
	all of this did not stop me from playing the game because these
things are not important if you are some joe slogging it out in the mud
in central europe . but in the 2300AD referees must convince the players
that these events are plausible its a whole other story , have you ever
been laughed at when trying to explain to the players why thier U.S.
national could not have been born in mexico unless he were an immigrant ?
it will kill your mood to run a game in no time . If the U.S. were going
to lose the #1 rank at least they could have maintained pre war borders
or if invaded continued to fight the occupation forces , but noooo we
accept foreign occupation lose a fifth of the nation turn up a mediocre
power in the world with a laughable space program and are looked down
upon by the rest of the world . talk about getting the shaft ..
	If any nation or alliance were going to usurp the U.S. 's
position as world leader it would be the pacific rim IMHO not france ..

maybe in the 3rd edition you guys can get it right , if there was one .

chip


>Loren Wiseman,
>     Twilight: 2000 Line Manager -- Emeritus
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:01:09 +0200
From: Pedro Arnal Puente <parnal@lander.es>
Subject: Re: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD

Hello all

>Yep, Tw2K was good.

Nop, ye olde Tw2K IS good and well alive...


...Vaale, aceptamos Win95 como algo util, pero no te lleves el scatergories

*Saludos Mercenarios. Pedro Arnal Puente*
*Correo-e: parnal@lander.es**************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:03:27 +1000 (EST)
From: "Barry / Michael James (COM)" <m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Gravitics and Fusion technology

A lot of the handwaving I've seen on the subject of Traveller technology 
comes from the 'gravitics' school. However, the maximum gravitic 
compensation available, even at TL15, is a puny 6g! 
Now this is OK if you're tearing around the universe in your 6g 
thruster-plate equipped ship, but 6g won't do very much for a lot of 
energy-manipulation purposes: for example, holding hydrogen plasma at 
sufficient densities to fuse, or providing 'gravitic focussing' for laser 
weapons! 
I suggest that Traveller technologies are able to generate much higher 
grav fields, but only for periods of milli- or micro-seconds. This means 
that you can't have a 2000g gravity-compensated fighter craft, but you 
can muster several thousands of Gs for a specific purpose, like focussing 
a laser pulse or pinching a plasma into fusion. 
The limitation on improving your laser focussing or fusion power 
production would probably depend on computer expertise, since a human 
being couldn't effectively supervise nanosecond decision processes. 
So were the old Book 4 repulsors actually devices that fire a pulse of 
gravitic energy, to smash or deflect incoming missiles? 

Comments? 
MB

=========================================================
m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au ------ preferred address
mbarry@pcug.org.au              ------ alternative address

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:59:21 +0200
From: Pedro Arnal Puente <parnal@lander.es>
Subject: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD Mailing lists?

Hello all

Perhaps a bit off-topic, but...

Do somebody if thera are Mailing Lists for Twilight2000 and 2300AD?

Many Thanks.


...Vaale, aceptamos Win95 como algo util, pero no te lleves el scatergories

*Saludos Mercenarios. Pedro Arnal Puente*
*Correo-e: parnal@lander.es**************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:09:20 +1000 (EST)
From: "Barry / Michael James (COM)" <m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc. 

I have discovered a cache of old Dragon and similar magazines, dating 
waaaaay back. Rather than dig through endless turgid cr*p detailing the 
sexual habits of purple ringed dragon-ferrets, I'd like some kind soul to 
tell me what issues contained Traveller-related material that is worth 
salvaging from the grasps of D&D munchkins. 

Other than Marc Miller's excellent article on Luna, were there any other 
decent Traveller materials in the first, say, 120 or so issues? After 
that it seemed to go downhill - into the filthy gravity well that is T$R, 
from which no light ever escapes. 

Also, does anybody remember an early article that gave game stats for 
Jack Vance's book (?The Dragon Lords?). I think that the stats might 
have been AD&D, but I'm willing to forgive that since I can convert to 
Traveller using that grey thing that has grown between my ears. 

=========================================================
m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au ------ preferred address
mbarry@pcug.org.au              ------ alternative address

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 01:03:36 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Aslan

Sun, 14 Sep 1997 19:44:54 -0800, Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
[Regarding Female dominated clans....]
>If I could make one suggestion for new material on the Alsan, it would be
>to play up their individualism and the mercantile aspects of their society.
>This would add depth to Aslan society and make them seem less like
>"Klingons in fur".

It was their unique approach gender roles that make them unique (or
one of the things).  I you make them just another race where you
have a slightly male dominate society in which women are trying
for equal rights (just like on Earth) you loose that.

It might be that Aslan have big controversies over things they consider
crucial (but humans wonder why aren't just considered side issues,
like maybe whether females using artillery for direct fire
situations is permitted).  But just putting them into the same
old human gender stuggle is (IMO) more like Klingons in fur.
(After all, they have a mostly male dominated society with
some women managing positions of power too....)


____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 03:14:30 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re:  Kenneth's Chargen Tweaks

Ross wrote:

> Congratulations, Ken.
> 
> While I've been critical in the past of some of the less savoury Task
> Wars, your proposed solution works, and above all, is an elegant fix.

> Once again, excellent job.

Thanks for the words!  I appreciate it!

When I make rules changes, I strive for simple, elegant, easy rules. 
I'm glad you like the chargen tweak.

Since you like this tweak, you might want to check out my tweaks on hand
to hand combat.  Let me know if you haven't seen this yet.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:20:59 +1000 (EST)
From: "Barry / Michael James (COM)" <m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Low and high gravity humans

Traveller, and SF in general, seem to have taken a wrong turn when 
describing humanoids from high-gravities. In most, the high-g humans are 
short, massively muscled specimens, because they have spent all their 
lives in a high-gravity field. 
However, the true advantage in high-g environments would go to those 
small enough that they don't have to spend their lives struggling against 
their own bodyweight. Natural selection would, IMHO, lead to high-g 
humanoids being short, yes, but probably quite low in mass as well. More 
blood can be directed to vital functions (brain etc) rather than being 
pumped all the way down to massive legs and all the way up again. This 
circulatory benefit alone would result in significantly reduced incidence 
of heart disorders....

However, you still wouldn't mess with one of these 4-foot tall 25kg dudes, 
since they could still bust you in half with their bare hands. 

Low g humans, on the other hand, would have a different set of problems. 
Large muscles would still have strength benefits, but it would be 
less difficult to carry them around. Obesity would be less of a 
disability, since fat would weigh a lot less too. 

I would expect low-g humans to appear quite plump, both because they 
couldn't be bothered to lose that extra flab they've acquired from the 
small amount of exercise they get in their day-to-day life, and because 
of fluid retention that seems to plague persons in low-g environments (eg 
Mir). 

So let's have an end to the high-g 'dwarves' and low-g 'elves' in SF! 
They will instead be high-g 'midgets' and low-g 'fatsos'...! 

=========================================================
m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au ------ preferred address
mbarry@pcug.org.au              ------ alternative address

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 03:12:41 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Kenneth's tweak.

Ross Coburn wrote:
> Out of curiousity, how does this impact basic Scouts?  Compared to
> advanced generation, 2/year seems pretty strong.  Roll twice?  Roll once
> and the Heck with the old ways?

This is how I'm doing it.

If a skill award is given, the character gets a roll--no matter what. 
This means if he gets a skill for a promotion, he gets his roll.  If he
gets a skill for commission, he gets a roll, and so on.

In the case of the Scouts, I'd give them two rolls per year.  This will
work out and balance them against other characters--just as they were
balanced when they got 1 skill per 4 years.

Why?  First off, the survival roll is pretty high, and this is a good
ballancer.  Second, the Enlistment throw (used for skill awards) is
fairly high too.  It's a 7+ as compared to the Army,which is a 5+.

Also, remember that Scouts don't get (in the CT/MT basic generation
system) skills for promotion or commission.  This will tend to even out
Scouts with other careers--that usually do get skills with promotion and
commission.  Don't forget that normal careers get two skills instead of
one if the throw for commission or promotion is 4+ than the listed
number.  Scout characters will miss out on this.

In using my chargen tweak, a player has a choice as to which Scout
career he wants to join.  He can weigh the pros and cons of the
different systems.

In CT and MT basic chargen, he gets 2 skill throws per year at the
expense of no skill for promotion or commission.  He also gets Pilot-1
automatically.

In CT and MT advanced chargen, he gets one skill throw per year (most of
the time plus a couple of skills for initial and advance
training--depending on what that training is.  This may seem like the
character will get less skills than if the player chose the above
system, but remember that the skill throw is variable under this
option.  The throw for a skill for a Scout in the Survey department
undergoing a War Mission is only 3+ vs the 7+ throw that will have to be
made using the system above.

In T4, Scout characters get 1 skill throw per year plus another skill
throw every two years, and they get Pilot-1, Exploration-1, and JOT-1
automatically.

Clearly, all three of these systems, using my tweak, will produce
compatible characters.  

As a GM, you can use different systems for different types of
characters.

For instance--

Let's say your player wants to roll up a Navy character.  If he uses
then CT/MT advanced methods, he gets a choice of which Navy to try for. 
Will he go for the Imperial Navy?  The subsector Navy?  A sector navy? 
A planetary Navy?

You could do something similar with the other Navy chargen systems.  You
could say that the CT/MT basic method is used for Imperial Navy
characters whereas T4 chargen characters are planetary Navy.

Or, you could just give the player a choice of systems, based on which
skills are offered in each system.  Two Scouts, generated with different
systems, have different life experiences, and thus the difference in the
characters.

For example, Perception is only offered on the T4 Scout chargen system. 
If a player wants that skill, he had better choose that method.

Then again, the GM may have the player random roll which system is used.

Or, whatever.  The bottom line here is that this tweak makes all of the
Traveller chargen systems relevant to playing with T4--and it adds a
heck of a lot of variety for character generation.

All of a sudden their is not just one way to roll up character.  There
are several choices, each with different pros and cons.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 03:36:30 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Jory M. Earl wrote:
> 
> I'll photo copy my Traders and Gunboats and send it to you if you have
> "Solomani Rim", "Merchant Prince" or any alien modules that you would do
> the same for me.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll find a copy of T&G one of these days. 
I'd be glad to help you out though.

You may want to think about it before you rush into copying anything
though.  It seems like a little thing, but it can add up real quick.

The Vargr Alien Module is 51 pages.  At $0.10 per page to copy, you are
looking at $5.1 to copy the thing.  You end up with a photocopy that may
be dark and unreadable in places, and if you search, you may find the
book for a buck or two more.

And, that's just one book.  I have all the Alien Modules that I can copy
for you, and I have Solomani Rim and Merchant Prince.  You're looking at
over $50 to copy all of that.  Postage will probably cost you another
buck a book, so now you are looking at over $60.

If you do want a copy of one or all of these, I will be happy to do it
for you.  I think you'd be better off trying to find a printed copy
though.

Let me know if you want to copy something.  We'll figure out the price
for copys and postage, and you can send me a check.  Then I'll copy the
stuff and send it to you.

I am glad to help you out if this is the route you want to go.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:05:57 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1819

On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> 
> I agree with John Macpherson. What does it matter what dice we used? I
> invented a new combat system - and at one time used Laserburn. It was still
> Traveller. I like the traditional Trav chrgen etc, but it's not essential.
> So what is essential?
> 
> The background. The setting. The Fun!

Most of all the fun. I don't even use the setting, and seldom the rules.
To me Traveller is the ships, the vehicles, the weapons, the gadgets and
so on. I'm currently running a campaign in a story teller way, dice rolls
are very infrequent. There has been evnings where there has been no use of
dice what so ever. But my players love it and enjoy themself. And no
matter what other say, we're still playing Traveller.

> 
> Martin.
> 

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:47:47 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)

At 09:54 AM 9/14/97 +0800, you wrote:
>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

[snip]

>>Therefore common sense tells us that the Vilani have to have had an immune
>>response system noticeably less effective than the Terrans when the first
>>contacted them. Realistically no other conclusion is possible. If canon states
>>this is not the case, then canon is simply flying in the face of scientific
>>reality.

>1) I agree completely with your reasoning;
>2) Doesn't the same necessarily apply to every other Ancient-relocated
>human (sub)species?  Wouldn't the Geonee, Suerrat, Darrian, Zhodani et al.
>immune systems had to have been similarly degenerated?

Yes, it is also an inevitabiity. At the very least none of these races would
have had helper T cells for virtually any of the millions of Terran disease
organisms. However if one assumes that most of these races developed on
worlds were the ecosystem was more compatible with Humans than on Vland (AM 5
indicates that the Zhodani were at least partially compatible with Zhodant).
Then one can assume that their were some disease organisms that could infect
humans on these worlds. However these worlds would not have had anything
like the number of human pathogens which the Terrans have faced, so their
immune systems would have also degenerated; but perhaps not to the same
degree of the Vilani, who have basically evoloved in a completely sterile
environment. However, one could also expect their immune systems to evolve
very quickly (in evolutionary terms) after contact. Disease is a *very*
effective evolutionary selection method. Plus interbreading with the Terrans
would also further strengthen the other human transplants immune systems.


  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:33:08 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1822

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:38:51 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 01:59:04 +0000
>From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
>Subject: Re: GURPRS Traveller Hardbacks
>
>Phillip McGregor wrote:
>
>> What sort of physical product do you want for the GURPS Traveller product?
>> 
>> *I* would like to see something with glossy paper and colour illos throughout a
>> la "In Nomine" ... and/or a Hardcover version of the same as well.
>
>Yes, but In Nomine's interior art, like a lot of GURPS art,is crap.
>
>They've got this great, mysterious, grabbing, somewhat mystic cover for
>In Nomine, and you turn inside to see comic book crap drawings.

Well, actually, I find it OK -- certainly better than the crap that Foss does!

If you like the general *idea* of a Hardcover/Glossy Paper version of GURPS
Traveller, but are unsure of the quality of the interior art ... then let them
know of your concerns, but push for the Hardcover/Glossy Paper version!

>They should have hired WW's Vampire artists to draw something really
>creepy to go with the cover.

And they could probably get someone from the local Kindergarten who could do at
least as well as Foss (no, I don't like his style *at all* :P )

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:33:12 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1822

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:38:51 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:45:00 +1200
>From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>Subject: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)
>
<much excellent technical data snipped, but not ignored!)
>
>Okay, so what does all this mean for the Vilani? Firstly they have not
>enocuntered any pathogen that has evolved on Terran since they were removed.
>This means they will not have helper T cells for virtually all current Terran
>diseases, thus making their immune response slower and less efficent. Sure
>they may have helper T cells for a few pathogens the Terrans have never
>encountered; but nothing like the number of new pathogens that have evolved
>on Terra in the past 300,000 years. However, those who survive the first
>onslaught of a particular Terran pathogen or who are innoculated against it
>will pass on helper T cells to the decendants. Also interbreading between
>Terrans and Vilani will further spread the vital helper T cells. Any Vilani
>who has a Terran anywhere in their ancestory will have access to the vast
>Terran 'library' of helper T cells.

However you run it, though, Terran diseases, as represented by the supposed
worst of them, the Plague of Duskir, killed less than 1% of the population of
the Ziru Sirka.

I presume that it really doesn't matter whether the populace were racially
Vilani or some other minor Human race, as they *all* were cut off from the
mainstream of humanity some 300k years before, and therefore have the same lack
of T-Cell memory etc.

Ergo, *either* the Terrans *did* undertake a huge (and self-evidently vastly
successful) inoculation/antibiotic/antiviral distribution plan *or* the lessened
effectiveness of the Vilani immune system was overstated (perhaps there is some
factor here that is explainable by what we know, or by something that we will
discover in the hypothetical future).

Regardless, remember, 99% plus of Vilani and equally vulnerable minor human
races were unaffected and survived.

As for a Terran example, well, the Spanish Flu is one -- it was a completely new
disease for which none of our disease memory had any "handle" ... yet it only
managed to kill around 1.5% of the then populace before disappearing (and it
wasn't, so we have discovered recently by DNA typing viable specimens preserved
more or less by accident at the time, a new strain of the Flu, it was a mutant
version of Swine Flu).

According to what I have read, some diseases can be *too* lethal, and kill off
either all possible hosts too quickly (so they cannot spread) and these diseases
generally appear once (often in Africa or Asia near the huge disease/bio
reservoirs that are the rain forests) and then disappear ... and all are
basically animal diseases. Perhaps the PoD was just the same.

>Secondly; simple genetics means that individuals are born with immune response
>systems of differing levels of effectiveness. On Terra those individuals with
>weaker systems are more likely to die and thus less likely to pass on their
>weaker immune system to their decendants. Thus on Terra, the human immune
>response will slowly get more efficent. However on Vland, those individuals
>born with weaker immune responses are no more likely to die and therefore
>just as likely to pass on that weaker immune system. Therefore random genetic
>mutation on Vland means that their immune system will gradually get weaker.

But 99% of the populace of the ZS did not die. So it either means that there was
a massive Terran medical effort *or* that the factors you are quite right in
describing had less effect than we would expect.

>This ignores the fact that since the immune response system is so energy
>intensive, those individuals on Vland with weaker immune responses actually
>are *less* likely to die and *more* likely to pass on their genes.
>
>Therefore common sense tells us that the Vilani have to have had an immune
>response system noticeably less effective than the Terrans when the first
>contacted them. Realistically no other conclusion is possible. If canon states
>this is not the case, then canon is simply flying in the face of scientific
>reality.

Noticeably less effective = 99% of Terran levels.

Or the Terrans spread biomedical info and resources so quickly that they quashed
most of the disease outbreaks even before they happened.

>So, putting it altogether, without massive outside intervention (and I am
>talking a truely massive intervention), when the Vilani encounter the Terrans
>with their vast host of accompanying pathogens, there will be a very dramatic
>'culling' of the Vilani. The only way to prevent this is a innoculation

Very dramatic culling = less than 1% of the total populace? I think not!

>programme unlike anything ever before. However, since the effectiveness of
>innoculation is totally dependant on the effectiveness of the individual's
>immune response; many Vilani will still fall victim to the first onslaught
>of Terran diseases.

But antibiotics and antivirals will still be effective. These are, after all,
diseases that effect Terrans as well.

>Now assuming this innoculation programme is maintained over many generations
>of Vilani, the Vilani immune response will slowly increase through evolutionary
>selection and interbreeding with the Terrans (this is the major factor) to
>the point where it is as effective as the Terran.

There are (IIRC) at least 70 million pure racial Vilani in the old Vland Sector
- -- it was in one of the Digests or Challenges or whatever -- as per the Civil
War era. And they were not, as far as the article commented anyway, any more
susceptible to Terran Diseases than anyone else.

>Some canon points to support this are: all the CT essays on the Solomani
>Terrans) mention that interbreeding has essentially merged the Vilani and
>Solomani throughout most of the Imperium. Other essays tell us that the
>Vilani have essentially ceased to exist as a seperate genetic race, existing
>only as a cultural grouping within the Imperium.

This is undoubtedly true to a degree, but it doesn't explain the 99% plus
survival rate of the original Vilani!

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1828
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1829



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD Mailing lists?
Re: FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle
Re: Duskir, Canon and Common Sense
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Gravity Advice
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Commentary
???
French navy in T:2000 (was:American Jingoism)
Re: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)
Body Science Theme
Re: Kenneth's Chargen Tweaks
The Miller Milk Bottle.
Re: American Jingoism
Re:Berry

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:27:45 +0100
From: Pedro Arnal Puente <parnal@lander.es>
Subject: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD Mailing lists?

Hello all

Perhaps a bit off-topic, but...

Sorry for the grammar of the previous msg, but i type wuite fast for a
quite burden MacOS... I will repeat the question.

Do somebody know if there are Mailing Lists for Twilight2000 and 2300AD?

Many Thanks.


...Vaale, aceptamos Win95 como algo util, pero no te lleves el scatergories

*Saludos Mercenarios. Pedro Arnal Puente*
*Correo-e: parnal@lander.es**************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:27:45 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle

At 0:24 -0400 9/15/97, Ross Coburn wrote:
>Darroch, I thought you had no time on your hands because of Bar School.
>Obviously, this is not the case.
>
>(Oh, and remember; *I'm* running the show again; it might not be worth
>your while to come up with any more of these little nightmares. . . .)
>


	Naw.  Weekend, remember; work was done and I had an hour or two;
don't expect any more toys for the next several days.

	What did you think of it?  I think that it'd make a highly
entertaining addition to just about any campaign :).

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:34:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Duskir, Canon and Common Sense

Phil,

You and your opponent(s) are arguing in circles and wasting *entirely*
too much space on the list. I am *certain* that I'm far from the only
person who sees one of the posts on *either* side of the argument and
either skips it, or does a very rapid "skim" to see if there is
anything else being discussed in the message.

I think that all involved should take it to private email and quit
cluttering the list. The posts are starting to resemble spam as far as
being of *no* interest to the rest of the list.

ps. I'm not singling you out, it's just that I hit one of your posts
first. 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:22:24 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

In mail you write:

> If fission is the power source of choice for TL 8 vehicles, why can't the 
> Ine Givar go and buy some of those and ship them back to their target 
> world for "re-use"?  The only way to stop this is if fission is only used 
> for military items like submarines.

The thing is, to make bombs from *non*-military reactors, you have to
do a lot of re-processing of the fuel. This is messy and dangerous.
Terrorist types are most likely to kill themselves in the process of
trying. It's also a lot of tedious, finicky, not very glorious (or fun)
hard work, which tends to go counter to the mindset of your typical
terrorist. 

There are some advantages the high-TL terrorist would have in trying
this though. First of all, they could reduce a lot of the danger by
doing the work in space, outside the hull of the ship. But that
restricts you to some of the more tedious types of isotope seperation.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:58:34 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

In mail you write:

> But, how do Zilan natives go anywhere else off planet.  How would a
> Zilan native, who is used to .272 Gs, function on a plant of 1 G?

About the same way you would on a planet with a gravity of 3.68 g
(1/.272). 

> If my players pick up some passengers (let's say they are all Zilan
> natives) from Zila, and the ship is set at a standard 1 G, how does this
> effect the passengers?

Badly. Very badly. Their circulatory system won't be up to it for one.
They'd essentially be invalids, and even flat on their back there could
be medical problems.

Note: the above is assuming that the Zilans *are* native, or that their
ancestors came to the planet long enough ago (millienia at least!) for
them to be adapted to the planet. If it's a colony that's only been
there a few generations, then they are *potentially* just as strong as
the players. But it may take them years of hard work to "adapt" to
normal gravity.

> Do the PC's look like supermen compared to the Zilan citizens when they
> are on planet?

Well, remember that they can't "leap tall buildings with a single bound".
While they can jump higher, what counts is their center of mass. So
they can raise their center of mass (call it the waistline) 3.68 times
higher. That's a lot different from the usual misconception that "if I
can jump up and touch a 10 foot ledge with my fingers, then I can touch
a 36 foot ledge here". To touch the 10 foot ledge you've only raised
your center of mass from about 3 feet to about 4.5 feet. So under .272
g, you could raise it from 3 feet to 5.5 feet, that's a 2.5 foot
change. So the guy who could reach a 10 foot ledge with his fingertips
can now reach an 11 foot ledge....

You can lift a lot more, and win wrestling matches. But no super jumps.
Running is likely to turn into a mess until you are used to the extra
"bounce" in your step. The natives will likely be able to outrun *you*!

ps. if the center of mass bit is confusing, think about the difference
between where the fingertips were if he was just standing there, arm
outstreched, and where they are when he makes the jump. And for jumping
*over* something, consider the soles of the feet at the start (on the
ground) and in mid-jump. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:54:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

You wrote: 

>Uhhh, like <drum roll> VIRUS? :)~
>And I expect most high grade "software" like that to actually be 
firmware.
> Possibly embedded or on special ROM type plugin-cards.  With software 
being

In Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion books, all of the Legion's 
computor-controlled equipment (and that's a lot of things, down to the 
individual radios) had their 'software' permenantly engraved on 
synthetic diamond disks they referred to as 'WORM-Write Once, Read 
Many' memory.  Couldn't reprogram it, but is pretty secure from any 
sort of tampering.  I'd think a lot of things on a starship (say, like 
the reactor control program or the autopilot) that don't need 
reprogrammed would be on this basis to prevent tampering.  

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:00:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commentary

>	What difference would it make if a Patriot hit a SCUD? SCUDs are ballistic
>-- once you've launched one, it's got to come down somewhere. If the
>Patriot hit one, it would just deflect it to a new landing point; and since
>the SCUDs were magnificently inaccurate, the chances are that deflecting
>the damn thing could be more dangerous than leaving it alone.

SCUDs were innacurate, but they weren't so innacurate that they didn't
actually "hit" stuff sometimes.  However, my father worked on the patriots to
make them more effectve after the gulf and Patriots don't "deflect" enemy
missiles, they blow them up into little pieces.  The little pieces DO have to
come down somewhere, but they are no longer as effective (at this point the
missile is no longer a big tube with an explosive/chemical warhead, it
becomes considerably smaller, non-explosive chunks).

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:17:43 -0400
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: ???

Why are we discussing things like nationalistic pride in the U.S., Twilight
2000 and 2300AD on the TML? The latter two have their own mailing lists (at
least, the last one does ), and, except for the poor choice of an original
name for 

2300AD, have nothing to do with Traveller. The first item listed is
inflammatory, insulting to our non-U.S. members (and some of our U.S. ones)
and only related to Traveller when someone makes a vain attempt to twist it
into the subject. I love my country too, but would prefer to discuss the
Traveller science-fiction roleplaying game here; all else is a waste of my
time and bandwidth.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:17:53 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: French navy in T:2000 (was:American Jingoism)

At 10:23 PM 9/14/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Glenn wrote:

>>Quote the Lindsay:

>>The South African Defence Force had a non-official motto of Cairo in 30,
>>meaning the SADF could fight its way to, and conquer, Cairo in 30 Days. Not
>>many people doubt they could have done it. The USA could have a motto of
>>Europe in 365, sort of. The Euros would not use their nukes on themselves,
>>as, other than Britain and Russia, none of them could even reach the USA.

>Ahem. Bearing in mind that this all relates to 2300...

>What about the French SSBNs? And they do have a couple of nice carriers...
>So that is 3 sets of nukes stopping US global domination. And somehow, I
>think that the French Government would have less of a resistance to using
>them than the UK, as they don't have the same cultural heritage.

Okay, well when T:2000 was written, the French SSBN's were 5 Le Redoutable
class and one L'Inflexible class; all armed with 16 M4 missiles. Both the
classes are roughly equivilent to the USN Layfatte or the RN Resolution
class boats; and the M4 missile is roughly equivelant to the USN Poseidon
missile (these boats are now being replaced by the Le Triomphant class with
their M5 missiles, but it is very unlikely that all 6 boats will be replaced;
and the M5 is not much of an improvement on the M4). The French SSBN's
cruise in the Atlantic and Pacific and their missiles were (and probably
still are) targeted at the USSR. The M4 has a range of at least 2,500nm and
carries six 150Kt MIRV warheads. The French are able to maintain a minimum
of 2 boats on patrol at any time (3 or 4 is more normal). So in the *very*
unlikely event that the French wanted to nuke the US, they could hit the
coastal areas easily, but further inland would be a problem. The M5 has a
range of at least 3,200nm and carry a the same MIRV warheads as the M4.

The rest of the Marine Nationale is actually fairly pathetic. The two carriers
(Clemenceau and Foch) are roughly equivalent to the USN Midways built in the
late 2nd WW, and carry a mix of F-8E fighters (an adequate fighter in the 60's,
somewhat useless in the 90's), Super Etendard strike aircraft (an okay fair
weather strike aircraft), no AEW, and elderly Alise ASW aircraft (again,
adequate in the 60's). Both of these are due to be retired in the late 90's.
Their replacement will be a single Charles De Gaulle CVN, hopefully carrying
Rafale fighter/attack aircraft and ASW helicopters (max capacity 35 aircraft).
The French have no automated CIWS and they are extremely weak on air defence.
They have a few (12) good ASW ships but thats about it. The French have paid
a very high price for their independent nuclear deterant.

>Obs: In the BBC series 'Yes minister" it was commented that the UK nuclear
>deterent existed because of the 'real' enemy. Not the Soviets, but the
>French! ;-)

I remember it well

Hackett "But surely the Russians don't want attack us"

Sir Humphrey "Russians? who said anything about the Russians?"

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:18:59 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)

At 09:33 AM 9/15/97 GMT, you wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:38:51 -0400, you wrote:

>>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:45:00 +1200
>>From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>>Subject: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)

><much excellent technical data snipped, but not ignored!)

Why thank you :*).

[snip]

>However you run it, though, Terran diseases, as represented by the supposed
>worst of them, the Plague of Duskir, killed less than 1% of the population of
>the Ziru Sirka.

First of all; I know the canon sources you are referring too as to the die
back of the PoD. To put it simply, I think these are way too low (ie I think
canon is wrong). Given the nature of the problem, a die back of 10% to 30%
is not unreasonable. The only way for this to be avoided would be a massive
Terran intervention. The problem with this, is the level of intervention is
probably beyond the capacity of the Terrans (regardless of desire). To put
it in perspective. Here in New Zealand we immunise all children against six
common dieases (diptheria, polio, whooping cough, measles, mumps and rubella).
Well actually we try to do this, but various factors mean we reach around 85%
to 90% immunisation. This involves a two vaccines (the triple vaccine against
the first three and the MMR vaccine against the second three; no prizes for
guessing where the names come from). To achieve effective immunity takes
no less than three sperate doses of each vaccine spread over 3 years. This
involves immunising approximately 60,000 children (about 2% of the population)
a year and consumes about 0.5% of our health spending. Now to protect the
Vilani against just our viral infections (we'll assume, incorrectly, that all
other infections can be treated with antibotics; I'll come to the problems
with this later). This involves innoculating 100% of the population against
(at bear minimum) several hundred infections. Even ignoring the logistics of
this feat, the cost is going to be phenominal. And you can't just put all
the vaccines in one syringe and squirt them in. This would overload even
the strongest Terran immune system. From what we understand the upper limit
is between 5 and 10 vaccines at one hit, with at least a month before you
can take the next one. You start to see the level of the task required.

>I presume that it really doesn't matter whether the populace were racially
>Vilani or some other minor Human race, as they *all* were cut off from the
>mainstream of humanity some 300k years before, and therefore have the same lack
>of T-Cell memory etc.

Yep, they all lack the helper T cells. But this is not the major problem
for the Vilani. What is the killer for the Vilani is the degeneration of
their immune system due to evolving in a sterile environment. As far as we
can tell, the other minor races did not evolve in environments completely
free from the risk of infection; therefore while their immune system would
also have degenerated, it would not be as marked as in the Vilani.

>Ergo, *either* the Terrans *did* undertake a huge (and self-evidently vastly
>successful) inoculation/antibiotic/antiviral distribution plan *or* the
lessened
>effectiveness of the Vilani immune system was overstated (perhaps there is some
>factor here that is explainable by what we know, or by something that we will
>discover in the hypothetical future).

This is a "dangerous" line of reasoning. We can explain things like Thruster
plates, anti-grav and jump drives as things we don't yet understand. But with
the immune system we have a good current working model. This is like saying
in the future, we have discovered that internal combustion engines don't in
fact work the way we thought.

>As for a Terran example, well, the Spanish Flu is one -- it was a
completely new
>disease for which none of our disease memory had any "handle" ... yet it only
>managed to kill around 1.5% of the then populace before disappearing (and it
>wasn't, so we have discovered recently by DNA typing viable specimens preserved
>more or less by accident at the time, a new strain of the Flu, it was a mutant
>version of Swine Flu).

Actually, I simplified the helper T cell process for clarity. The helper T
cells are capable of 'learning' to indentify new organisms. The speed with
which they can 'learn' is related to the similarity of the virus to ones
they already know how to detect. Thus in 1917, there would be very few
humans who did not have helper T cells capable of detecting many flu viruses.
Thus when the Spanish Flu came along our immune system could adapt quickly
to it. It's the mutant nature of the Flu which greatly lessened it's
viralence. Again, the Vilani do not have this advantage, due to the time of
seperation.

>According to what I have read, some diseases can be *too* lethal, and kill off
>either all possible hosts too quickly (so they cannot spread) and these
diseases
>generally appear once (often in Africa or Asia near the huge disease/bio
>reservoirs that are the rain forests) and then disappear ... and all are
>basically animal diseases. Perhaps the PoD was just the same.

There are a lot of diseases which could make up the PoD. Take for instance
Pneumocytes carinii. This is a protoza parasite which resides within
perhaps 95% of the population. Normally it's no problem to us as it is kept
under control by our immune system. However if our immune system starts to
breakdown or weaken, it becomes quite lethal (it is a major cause of death
with AIDS sufferers). There are many of these protoza resident with in our
bodies all kept under control by the immune system and when our immune
system weakens they become killers. These are diseases which all Terrans
carry, but are uneffected by.

[snip]

>>Therefore common sense tells us that the Vilani have to have had an immune
>>response system noticeably less effective than the Terrans when the first
>>contacted them. Realistically no other conclusion is possible. If canon states
>>this is not the case, then canon is simply flying in the face of scientific
>>reality.

>Noticeably less effective = 99% of Terran levels.

No, we are taking much less effective. Again this is not taken from Traveller
canon, but modern science. As we understand it a race which has spent nearly
300K years in a sterile environment will suffer much more than 1% degredation,
sure we don't know just how much, but we do know it will be more than a little.

>>programme unlike anything ever before. However, since the effectiveness of
>>innoculation is totally dependant on the effectiveness of the individual's
>>immune response; many Vilani will still fall victim to the first onslaught
>>of Terran diseases.

>But antibiotics and antivirals will still be effective. These are, after all,
>diseases that effect Terrans as well.

Firstly, as yet we have no drug which can be classed as an antiviral agent.
Nor is their any sign of any likely to be developed in the next 50 years.
Not to say we won't in 300 years, but not to say we will. However, here's
another problem. Just how many hospital beds and doctors are there in the
ZS? Take the US as an example. In the US today there are 70 hospital beds
per 10,000 population, here in NZ we do better at around 100 per 10,000.
We know the Vilani never developed a medical 'shaman', but it is rather
beyond belief that they never developed doctors and hospitals; after all
they still fall down and break their legs! So lets give the Vilani the same
number of hosital beds as the US. Now lets look at the Vilani doctors. These
are not like Terran doctors, these are almost exlusively trauma specialists.
Sure they have encountered the odd disease since spreading to space and most
doctors get some basic training in disease treatment, but this is a minor
factor. Now along come the Terrans and all of a sudden people are getting
sick, lots and lots of people. How do you treat disease? First you have to
indentify it, which is reliant on the doctor's experience and training (an
edu task); but the Vilani doctors are weak on this. Sure they've got all the
lastest bulletins from Terra on what to look for, but its still not that
easy and it still comes down to experience and the Vilani still lack this.

So fairly soon the Vilani hospitals are bulging at the seams, beds in the
corridors and all that. The doctors and nurses are totally out of their
depth in treating diseases. Before you can adminster a drug, you have to
know what your fighting, then you have to know how much to administer, you
have to know what to look for to see if its working or not etc. So with
the level of infection, fairly soon the Vilani medical system collapses.
But what about Terran doctors? They don't have the same limitations. These
are but a drop in the bucket. Even assuming that Terran doctors are following
their humanitarian instincts and flocking to the ZS in droves, leaving the
Terran Confederation dangerously unstaffed; the shear numbers of the Vilani
relative to the Terrans means that they can't make a meaningful impact.

Bottom line: you can have all the drugs in the world, but they are utterly
useless unless you know how to use them.

>>Now assuming this innoculation programme is maintained over many generations
>>of Vilani, the Vilani immune response will slowly increase through
evolutionary
>>selection and interbreeding with the Terrans (this is the major factor) to
>>the point where it is as effective as the Terran.

>There are (IIRC) at least 70 million pure racial Vilani in the old Vland Sector
>-- it was in one of the Digests or Challenges or whatever -- as per the Civil
>War era. And they were not, as far as the article commented anyway, any more
>susceptible to Terran Diseases than anyone else.

This can be explained by a widespread immunisation program and several
thousand years of interbreading and evolution.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:41:29 +1000 (EST)
From: David Jaques-Watson <davidjw@pcug.org.au>
Subject: Body Science Theme

Dear Folks -

You may not believe this, but... my Library Data has been "chosen" as a
reference site for Discovery Channel School's Body
Science theme for Fall (3rd quarter) 1997.

Don't laugh! (I did!)

I thought they must have noticed the alien physiology sections. It's
actually because of the references to "bionics", "cyborgs", "replacement
body parts", and so on. The Discovery Channel site is at:
        http://school.discovery.com.

Their Body Science bionics resources page is at:
        http://school.discovery.com/fall97/programs/therealbionicman/resourc
es.html

I'm also passing this to Marc and Loren, as they might like to know their
brainchild is appreciated by others!
________________________________________________________________________
Hyphen (David Jaques-Watson)                         davidjw@pcug.org.au
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:55:08 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Kenneth's Chargen Tweaks

> Since you like this tweak, you might want to check out my tweaks on hand
> to hand combat.  Let me know if you haven't seen this yet.
> 
> Kenneth.

Okay, I'm letting you know. I'm interested in seeing the HTH tweak.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:13:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: The Miller Milk Bottle.

I just bought an old Dragon magazine issue (#51) because it had lots of
Traveller stuff in it, and I came upon a very funny article by Marc Miller
himself.  Of course, maybe it should have been the Miller Milc Bottle :)

The Miller Milk Bottle
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
by Marc Miller

     Although the Traveller rules are rather complete, they do have a glaring
omission in the equipment section, and indeed, it has not been filled in the
"Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society" Ship's Locker section either.  This
important piece of equipment is the milk bottle.
     Milk bottles are made of glass (fused silicon) containers used to hold
cow's milk for sale by merchants; less frequently (and depending on local
animal presence), goat or other mammal milk may be sold instead.  Milk
bottles appear at about tech level 3 or 4 (supplanting larger metal
containers) and do not occur past tech level 6 or 7, where they are replaced
by waxed-paper or plastic containers.
     Milk bottles are easy to find.  They are always found in markets selling
foodstuffs and sundries; they may be found on urban doorsteps in morning
hours on a throw of 9+.  At times, they are concealed in small cubical metal
insulating lockers, so a search may be necessary.  Milk bottles are rarely
found in restaurants, except in the kitchen, where they may be obtained from
refrigerators on a throw of 6+; otherwise the restaurant uses a bulk-storage
system.
     Milk bottles have a variety of uses.  They may be employed as clubs,
breaking to form daggers after the first blow is stuck.  The fact that they
are glass makes them excellent as cutting tools, to sever cords which bind
hands, to slice tires, or to cut cloth or leather.  Broken glass can be used
to make a simple alarm system:  The glass is spread on the floor, and if
intruders approach, the crunching sound gives them away.  If the intruders
are barefoot, their screams of pain add to the effectiveness of the alarm.
     Correctly used, a milk bottle can perform as a signal mirror for code
(heliograph) transmissions or to blind an unsuspecting enemy.  The sparkle of
a reflective glass bottle can be used to attract (or sometimes it repels)
birds, small animals, or other beings.  At times, shards of glass can be
traded to pack rats or other scavengers who occasionally accumulate truly
valuable things.  It is advisable to convert such shards to beads, however
crudely, by heating the edges to dull them; in addition, their value is
enhanced by piercing them (a laser rifle works nicely) for stringing.
     Milk bottles serve admirably for their original intended use: carrying
liquids.  They can hold water or other refreshments or can be used to carry
fuel.
     The liquid carrying ability can also be used to create weapons.  Since
glass is impervious to most acids, the acid attack comes immediately to mind.
 Throw 8+ for 5D damage; otherwise only 2D damage.  Allow DM -4 is the victim
has Dexterity of 9+, DM+3 if the attack is made with surprise.  Throw
separately 9+ to blind the victim (permanently unless tech level 8+ eye
transplant is available) regardless of other hits or wounding.  Another
weapon possibility is the firebomb.  When thrown, the firebomb will shatter
and burst into flame covering an area 15 meters in diameter.  All within the
area will receive hits amounting to 2D per turn; saving throw of 7+ (BM +2 if
Dexterity 9+) is allowed.  In addition, DM +2 on saving throw for heavy
clothing or personal armor is allowed; a firebomb will not affect the wearer
of battle dress unless an exact 12 is thrown.
     Milk bottles can be a source of income, too.  Because of their innate
value, they are generally provided as refundable/returnable containers.  At
tech level 3 the refund price for such containersis one cent (Cr0.01); this
effectively doubles at each succeeding tech level, up to 20 cents at TL7.  In
dire circumstances, a door-to-door search for bottles (empty or full) to
return can provide enough funds for small necessities.


Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:15:24 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: American Jingoism

At 10:58 PM 9/14/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Dom
>about those french boomers , I bet some one in DC knows there exact
>locations at any givin time . :>} 

Exceedingly doubtful.  The whole point of a SSBN is to get lost in the deep
ocean.  We are now finding out that we weren't nearly as good at tracking
Soviet subs as we thught, and that they could and did track Ohio class
SSBNs on occassion.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:38:53 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re:Berry

At 10:58 PM 9/14/97 EDT, you wrote:
>So because civ. sites are nuked this allows the mexicans and pals to role
>into the U.S. ? 
>
>here is a theory . the Mil gov. civ. gov. and free america are fighting ,
>mexico invades the U.S. . the warring factions set aside thier deferences
>and gang bang the invaders 
>this IMHO is more probable , none of the different factions wants to lose
>the texas oil fields or suffer the humiliation of foreigners on native
>U.S. [ for the past couple hundred years anyway ] soil . maybe the
>factions go back at each other after they deal with the invaders , thats
>a whole different scenario .

And they learn about this invasion when CNN covers the assult across the
border?  Try and understand, the UNited States is *wrecked*.  We can't feed
the population, industry and commerce have stopped.  Millions of refugees
are choking the roads looking for a safe place.  The railroads are unusable
due to railyards being hit, and the effects of the EMP scrambling the
switching computers.

Nobody knows what is happening in Texas outside of Texas for months!  By
the time the two US Governments can respond, the Texas resistance has
already sent those durn commies running. 

>also the U.S. army stock piles parts and fuel enough for years of war . I
>know because I have seen these ware houses before . also in time of dire
>need [ such as an invasion of U.S. soil ] every american would be
>expected to fight , and most of us possess fire arms not to mention the
>militias and other para military groups that would fight a guerilla war
>against the invaders .

Those warehouses are impressive.  They are however, mostly placed on
military bases.  also, in the game, the US had been at war for a few years
already.

Tell me.  If you don't have enough to eat, just buried another family
member who died of cholera, are living in a burned out shed with 12 other
people, and are showing signs of radiation poisoning, are you going to
gladly march off to Texas because their *might* be Russians there?

In 1940, a panic broke out in Scotland over the rumor that the Germans had
landed.  A few people were shot in mistaken identity.  During wartime,
rumors fly faster than bullets.

I'd save my bullets to help secure food for me and my wife.

>I would fight . would you Mr. Berry ? this last question is to show that
>americans have not lost thier will and we could defeat and hold off any
>nation attempting to invade as well as project enough power to send said
>invading power straight back to the stone age . in addition to american
>tech. superiority don't short change the american peoples fighting spirit
>. especealy when defending thier homes ,

If somebody invaded San Francisco, damn straight I'd fight.  If the US was
nuked, and I was struggling just to eat, my priorities would be very
different.

Do you know what percentage of the French population was involved in the
Resistance?  Less than 1%.  99% of the French just endured the German
occupation.  They had guns, they had pride, but it was easier to just put
up with it.

In a post nuclear world, very few people will give a rat's ass about what's
happening in Texas.  The people in Texas, facing the immediate threat,
would organize and fight.

>also I should not compare the 80's T2000 background with 90's tech and
>military forces . short and simple the U.S. would most probably not bog
>down in a ground war as our air superiority would sweep the enemy from
>the sky , our combined arms would crush any resistance on the ground and
>our navy would keep the sea clear for continued supply and troop movement
>. our arms and ammo factories would be moved to hidden and hard to target
>areas and the populace would be put to work as well as on food and fuel
>rations . even with this adversity I am sure the U.S. would not slip
>behind any other nation on this mud ball and would reach pre war levels
>quickly after the war . this nation has been planning for nuclear war for
>decades and I am confident we could get through it as well or better than
>is depicted in the T2000 / 2300AD back grounds . on the ending note , the
>majority of the worlds economic health relies on the U.S. and if the U.S.
>failed so would the economies of the world .

Ah, sweet arrogance.  We've now learned that the Soviets are better pilots
than we thought.  We've now had the chance to train with them.  They, and
their planes (esp. the MiG-29, -31, and Su-27) are of equal quality to the
F-15 Eagle.

Your scenario assumes a great deal, like everybody in the US agreeing to
it!  In the T2K backround, when the Soviet and American Atlantic Fleets
meet off of Norway, they destroy each other.  Only a few scattered ships
remain (In 2000, there are *two* nuclear submarines left on the planet.. a
US Los Angeles class, and an ice-bound Soviet boomer.)

You also assume that the government is functioning.  It isn't.
Communications are gone, Washington was nuked, most of the major command
centers were nuked.  This is why MilGov took over, and when the civilain
Congress attempted to reform, there was enough doubt to cause the
MilGov/CivGov schism.

As for the world depending on the US economy.  True, for the moment.  It
used to depend on the British economy, before that the Dutch ran the
world's money markets, before that the Spanish controlled much of it.  The
planet has survived all fo these changes, and now the balance of economic
power seems to be shifting to Asia's "Four Tigers."
>
>jim mckee
>orlando fl
>T4 fan 
>
>
>
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1829
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1830



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: 2300 background simulation
re: What killed Skylab
[none]
Re: dan lane
Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: Duskir, Canon, and Common Sense
Re: FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle
Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad
Re: How to get things done!
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Chemical engines
Re:Get a clue Harold
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:22:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: XatoKuom@aol.com
Subject: Re: 2300 background simulation

Loren, 
I would truly love having a copy of "The Game"   2300AD has always been a
favorite of mine.  I can still remember the first day opened the boxed set
and saw the Near Star list.  Bliss!!!!!

Thanks in advance, 

Scott Quigg(XatoKuom@aol.com)
In Navajo, kemo sabe means "soggy bush".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:32:16 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: re: What killed Skylab

From: Glenn Crawford <glennc@nelvana.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Gravity, man. Gravity

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:30:51 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: [none]

Quote the Dom:
What about the French SSBNs? And they do have a couple of nice carriers...
So that is 3 sets of nukes stopping US global domination. And somehow, I
think that the French Government would have less of a resistance to using
them than the UK, as they don't have the same cultural heritage.

The French Navy would not get close enough. And the French Force de Frappe
(real name!) is not very accurate (CEPs are comparable to Soviets, BOMFS)

Obs: In the BBC series 'Yes minister" it was commented that the UK nuclear
deterent existed because of the 'real' enemy. Not the Soviets, but the
French! ;-)

They're not? 8^P

------------------------------

Date: 15 Sep 1997 15:25:57 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: dan lane

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> writes:
>>Remember that the last war America fought on it's own, we lost.  
>WHAT? I mean that. WHAT? This is a gross insult to the very brave South
>Koreans, Thais, and Australians that joined America in the Vietnam war. 

Not to mention Canadians.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:34:11 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

>In mail [pete] writes:
>
>> 21   Fusion Bottle or Plasma Conduit breached, room bathed in hot plasma,
>> ship explodes on 11+ on 2D.
[snip]
>Sorry, but even in a fusion reactor the plasma is pretty thin.
[snip]


Well, I was all ready to refute you on a scientific basis that high
temperatures must cause a problem.  Fortunately I decided to check my
sources (since there is an experimental fusion reactor within 200 feet of
me and I work with Fusion Scientists).   It seems Leonard is right.  If we
take our current reactor science as a prototype, then breaching a fusion
reactor at temp will cause the atmosphere in the room to rush *into* the
reactor chamber, which is held at a partial vacuum (.1 atm) while running.
The few paltry particles in there will not release a tremendous amount of
heat energy, because they apparently radiate in the wrong frequencies to
create a lot of heat.  (not that the last sentance does not make a lot of
sense to me so don't try tomake me explain it).

The only other recourse I can think of off the top of my head is the
opposite.  Since there is Liquid Hydrogen flowing in and around the reactor
perhaps it would be more appropriate to *freeze* the characters as they are
bathed in L-Hyd vapors.

>And the ship *won't* explode if you breach the fusion bottle.

Actually, I was thinking of the cascading catastrophic failure of other
systems as the power went unexpectedly off-line, or the power plant threw
off streams of superheated plasma at the other systems around it.  There
ought to be some sort of "hollywood risk" associated with events like
firefights in closed spaces.

Pete

Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:29:15 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Duskir, Canon, and Common Sense

Phillip McGregor writes:
>Let's consider a few pertinent "facts" that have been presented in the 
>course of this argument --

That, at least, is a very good idea.

>1)  Vilani  immune  systems, as a result of having been in what some people 
>have claimed was a disease free environment for several hundred thousand 
>years, are almost totally unable to handle exposure to even harmless Terran 
>bacteria, let alone actual Terran *diseases*.

There's acouple of errors here.  While Andrew's argument that the Vilani
immune systems must actually be inherently weaker than the Terran immune
systems is very convincing, all the sources actually say is that the
Vilani were not immune to a lot of Terran bacteria and viruses, which is
hardly surprising, since they had never encountered them. Also, the
quotes about "harmless" implies that if they were harmless to the Terrans 
then they really should also be harmless to the Vilani. That simply does
not follow.

>2) There is no game mechanism to allow of racial Vilani characters to be more
>susceptible to Terran diseases.

True. But then, there are no game mechanics that deals with Vilani before the
Year 0.
 
>3) The population of "known space" at the end of the RoM was around 1000 
>   billion people (per a rough count of the Sector population as per "First 
>   Survey")  --

Wait a minute. I thought _First Survey_ detailed things the way they are in
the Year 0? That's 1500 years after the _fall_ of the RoM, enough time for 
a population to grow about a million times (assuming a doubling of the 
population every 75 years, something quite possible according to TNE rules). 
In short, conditions in Year 0 is not very helpful when it comes to proving
anything about conditions at the end of the RoM, much less before and at the
beginning of the RoM, which is the time we're really dealing with.

>4) The Plague of Duskir killed around 1 billion people before a "cure" was
>discovered, and was widely (though it is never explained *how* widely) spread
>through the Ziru Sirka.

Not quite. The plagues caused by Vilani encounters with Terran pathogens, of
which the PoD was the most famous, caused over a billion deaths (which means
more than a billion and propably considerably less than 2 billion, but IMO
'over a billion' could mean something close to 1.5 billion (native English
speakers correct me if I'm wrong).

There are at least three stages to these plagues: The first plagues were
brought to the Vilani by Terran POWs, which means during the Interstellar
wars, and we don't know anything about how extensive they were. Next a lot
of plagues broke out more or less simultaneously "in the wake of advancing
Solomani troops and affected worlds from the Solomani Rim to Vland". These
are the plagues that are collectively (and fallaciously) known as _the_
Plague of Duskir and must take place shortly after the end of the last
Interstellar War. Finally a number of plagues are said to have been spread 
to a number of worlds by Solomani immigrants.

>5) Terrans were not affected by the PoD.

Not to speak of, anyway.

> These facts make some interesting conclusions inevitable.
> 
>Firstly, unless you propose some ridiculously high birth rate under the 
>RoM compared to that of the Ziru Sirka [...] then it is reasonable to 
>believe that the ZS had a population of between half and one third of 
>the First Survey value.

There is nothing ridiculously high about a population increase of 0.9% per
year (which will give you a doubling of the population in 75 years). In
fact, unless you assume that the Vilani practiced some kind of population 
control for most of their 10,000 years in space, they would have filled
every nook and cranny of Charted Space long before they encountered the
Terrans. And, given that, they could just as easily have had 10 million
people apiece on the 1000 most hospitable worlds in the Siru Zirka for
a total population of 10 billion.

My own guesstimate would lie somewhat higher, on a total population of
100 billion, but that's all it is, a guesstimate.

>Fact 6) The Spanish Flu, *the* most lethal plague known to mankind 
>throughout recorded history, killed around 20 million of the planetary 
>population in 1918... 20 million out of around 1.2 billion, or about 1.6%!

But not, of course, 1.6% of those directly affected.

>Fact 7) Most people today would be completely unaware of either a) the 
>existence of the Spanish Flu or, b) its relative or absolute lethality.

True, but irrelevant. The general knowledge of the Spanish Flu and any
other plague has little to do with how lethal it was. If the PoD did no
more than change the demographical composition of a dozen worlds close
to Terra then it would have earned atleast a footnote in the history books.

>The PoD killed 0.3% *at best* of the pre-RoM populace. 

If by *at best* you mean *at most* (ie. 'at worst' ;-) then you are wrong.
If my guesstimate is right it would be 1.5% and it could be higher yet if
we make other assumptions.

>We don't known how widespread it was, but there are hints that it and 
>allegedly terran originated diseases at the time indicate that it was 
>*very* widespread.

All we know is that it affected worlds from the Solomani Rim to Vland and 
that in the end several thousand planets were infected and the final death
toll was over a billion. It is impossible from the text to tell whether
it alludes to all three phases of the plagues or just the PoD alone.  

>Now, it seems that we really have several options that, regardless of which 
>you pick, contradict some of the elements that people claim are "canon"... 
>in other words, canon is *going* to be contradicted, no matter which you 
>choose. These options are --
> 
>1)  Vilani immune systems were 99% effective vs. Terran diseases -- 

Let's go with the 99% survival rate. It is close enough to the one I 
consider the most likely one that I won't quibble about it. Which means
that:

1% of the total Vilani population died.
An unknown percentage of them were infected but survived on their own.
An unknown percentage of them were infected but saved by the Terrans.
An unknown percentage of them were immunized before they were infected.
An unknown percentage of them were not exposed to infection.
The 1% is an average, which almost guarantees that the  figure is higher
for some planets and lower for other planets.   
The figure may or may not represent deaths in the Plague of Duskir alone,
so the deaths from first and third stage plagues may or may not be included. 

Which means that we really can't say anything at all about the Vilani
immune systems just based on that one figure.

About the only thing we can say for sure is that no high-population world
lost enough Vilani to make the Terrans into the majority there, but since
we don't know howmany high-population worlds the Vilani had, that's not
much help. 
  
>2)Terran precautions, based on the long term contacts that the Interstellar 
>Wars represent, to minimise the impact of Terran diseases on a basically 
>defenceless Vilani populace (and non-Vilani minor races would be equally 
>vulnerable for reasons that have also been canvassed) must have been 
>almost completely successful. After all, 99% or more of the populace of 
>the Ziru Sirka survived unaffected by any diseases.

Absolutely true, except for the bit about being unaffected. Just because
they survived dosen't mean they were unaffected. _On the average_ the
Terran help must have been pretty damn effective. That dosen't mean they
didn't fail spectacularily in some instances.

>3) The PoD was basically a beat-up. The fact that it appears only in Solomani
>and Aslan *and* is mentioned by "the authors" is, I would contend, immaterial
>here. 

No indeed. It is very much material. If it had just been the Library Data 
entry in TD#10 and the essay in _S&A_, then the only indisputable canonical
fact would be that in 1100 a lot of people believed in the PoD, which might
mean much or little. In that case, in fact, your theory would be just as
valid as the orthodox view (But, and I wish to emphasize this, not any more 
valid than the orthodox view; your theory might be true, but there would
still be no real reason why it should be). But since we have an autorial
statement about the PoD, that is no longer the case.  

>The facts are that the PoD killed less than 1% of the populace of the Ziru 
>Sirka, and that this is such a tiny amount that the alleged prominence is
>immediately suspect.

As I've explained before, that does not follow. How well-known an event is
depends only on how much publicity it gets. Thus, while we would expect
monumental events to be well-known, the reverse cannot be assumed.
   
>Personally, I think the only acceptable conclusion is probably b).
> 
>We *know* that less than 1% of the pre RoM populace of the ZS died, and we 
>are *told* that some *Vilani* scientists came up with a cure for the PoD. 
>Since we are *also* told that the Vilani medical tech was so poor, this 
>seems unlikely -- so, for a person who wants minimal changes to canon, it 
>seems that we would have to suspect that the story of who discovered the 
>"cure" for a disease (and we are actually  told that it was a constellation 
>of unrelated diseases) that he had no experience with, and using technology 
>that he had no previous knowledge of or access to must be just *possibly* a 
>disinformation effort. It makes a lot more sense than believing that some 
>Vilani dude came up with the solution!

IIRC Duskir is supposed to have used Terran texts. Unlikely is not the same
as impossible, so the minimal change to canon is to leave it at that: An
unlikely, but nevertheless true, historical event. If it pleases you to
believe that Duskir didn't do it, feel free; it is "only" mentioned in the
1100 data, and may therefore be untrue. I guess the first authorized
Traveller author to write about that aspect of the RoM is free to chose.
 
>No, the *logical* solution has to be that the PoD was a minor event that  has
>been given a going over and has been blown out of all proportion by *someone*
>for their own purposes; purposes that have nothing to do with "reality", but
>with the *manipulation* of reality.
> 
>Who could be behind such a campaign?
> 
>Given the primary source of info on the PoD and its alleged curer is in 
>Solomani and Aslan, 

It was also in the (presumably Imperial) Library Data in TD#10. Check Mark
Seemann's Traveller pages for the whole entry.

>it seems that it has to be either --
> 
>a) The Solomani, or

What Solomani? Those of -2200 or those of -1500  or those of 1100? And what
segment of them?
 
>b) The 3rd Imperium, or

>c) The Vilani within the 3rd Imperium.

or d) The historians of Charted Space.
 
>Lets look at them.
> 
>a) Why would the Solomani do it? There seems, on the face of it, to be more 
>that they would risk than gain. Possibly, though, it was for internal 
>political consumption to make a point about how ruthless they were in the 
>"good old days" and being aimed to prepare the people for some truly 
>ruthless and despicable move against the 3I. Gven what we know of the 
>Solomani party, it seems possible.

The story essentially goes: "When we  conquered the Vilani we accidentally
infected them with dreadful diseases, but mostofthem survived. Some planets
were heavily depopulatedso that we became the majority on them, but that
wasn't something we did deliberately, it was an unfortunate accident.

What could be the Solomani's reason to tell this story? 1) It's the truth
and it dosen't harm our present agenda, or 2) it's covering up something
worse.
   
>b) The Third Imperium, why would they do it? They draw legitimacy from
>their alleged descent from the RoM, and would hardly want to connect this 
>with some allegations of terrible crimes by the RoM or *its* predecesssors.

But there _are_ no allegations of terrible crimes. As far as the story goes
all those deaths were accidental.

>c) The Vilani? Well, we know from published material that the ZS refounded
>itself after the collapse of the RoM and had to be cajoled into the 3I ... 
>so, perhaps it is a case of Vilani racial loyalists trying to cast doubts 
>about the legitimacy of the origins of the now Terran dominated Imperium 
>(socially if not racially)?

What doubts? Again, the story dosen't cast any doubts on the Terrans at all.

>Whatever is the case, I think its fairly obvious that the PoD is a beat 
>up by *someone* with an axe to grind, and bears as much relationship to 
>reality as Fairy Floss does to food.

What is obvious is that ignoring the authorial evidence of TD#20 the PoD
could be a total myth, but it could equally well be completely true.
Given the evidence of TD#20 it must be considered pretty much the truth,
though there is room for some degree of alternative thinking.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:01:34 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: FSA Jackal-4 ELR-GS Gauss Sniper Rifle

At 12:03 AM 9/15/97 -0500, Rod wrote:
>
>	The inspirations for this one?  The quad-barreled nailgun in Quake,
>Frederick Forsythe, the Questar 3.5" telescope (although the optical
>characteristics on this thing's scope are different), and any number of
>politicians and certain individuals who are beating off-topic dead horses
>into holes in the pavement about the size of Meteor Crater in Arizona..:).
>
>	I'd be interested to hear what the list's resident sniper has to
>say about this thing.

Except for the weight, I like it!  This thing would probably be found
mostly in static defences, since I would want to be the one trying to low
crawl half a klick with it.


- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:22:41 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad

> From: lugh1@juno.com
> Subject: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad
> Date: Sunday, September 14, 1997 4:06 PM
> And of course there would be no resistance [ red dawn ] and all the
> reserve , guard units would be in europe and asia . the leaving us open
> for invasion . did the U.S. do this in WWII ? I thought there were home
> guard units and other defense forces defending the nation at all times ?

If I remember my history, at the start of WWII America army was extremely small
and were training with wooden rifles.   Red Dawn ...I hate to rain on your parade, but
after at least 4 year of full blown war I don't think there will be that
many young men or woman around that haven't been recruited or know how to
handle firearms to form an effective fighting group.  As for lower skills
of the 3rd world countries they make up for it with sheer numbers of
personal just like Vietnam and as for the like of LA street gangs with the
Hispanics. Let us remember Los Almos.  On a tour map I have it points out
that the Hispanics population in 1980 for LA was over 2 million and the
whole population of Southern California was only 13.6 Million 
 
> 
> look , I should not have attempted to interject reality into a game and I
> did not mean to insult the french or any other nation in the world with
> my opinions and thoughts . I will never buy into the U.S. main land being
> invaded by a coalition of third world banana republics [ the caribbean ]
> and I will never believe that the U.S war machine could be shut down buy
> nuclear strikes against major population areas and training bases .
> 	In time of nuclear threat the major pop. centers would be on
> alert and possibly evacuated .

hmmmm... that they stop the campains of "Duck and Cover" in the early 70's
because thay decieded it would taken too long to evacuated citys.  It is my
belief that it takes ICBM somewhere between 5-14 mins from the USSR to USA.
On a side note  War Machine issue 2 point out the fact that Americans have
conceded that fixed locations basing concept makes the ICBM inherently
vulnerable. This, coupled with the fact that Soviet forces of ss-18 Model 4
and ss-19  Model 3 (read Moble) ICBM can distroy the majority of the US
missiles and associated command and control and communications centres in a
first strike, Plus the ability to reload these launch silos within a day
and move to a new location makes them deadly.
 
 also most of the arms producing factories
> have enough supplies in stock pile for years of total war . this goes
> doubly for fuel , and in addition 98% of the fuel pumped in alaska goes
> to the military reserves .
Military reserves read big targets. Let see M1 MBT range 280mph, top speed
45mp,
number deployed in USA some 3000(7058 had been produced by 1988) and this
is only the M1 not the later versons or one stationed else were in the
world or non combat support vechicles. And this is the army alone to keep a
war machine like the alive would reqiure a hell of a lot of gas (M1 uses
Gas insted of Diesel)

 >also we [ the U.S ] have a few different
> methods of protecting itself from ICBM attacks . such as the satellites
> that launch metal rods into space to intercept the ICBM in space and
> destroy it . also I remember reading about satellites that bombard
> incoming ICBMs with micro wave which fry the circuitry and disable the
> weapon .  third is the anti missile missile .
> 	this is tech that is up there , you can bet on it .

You can also bet that every time theres a big solar flare, that they close
the satellites up to protect them from the EMP. The America were amazed
when they got there hand on a new Russian fighter to find it had vacuum
tubes until someone pointed it out that it could survive EMP blast. As for
these satellites I don't know, But if microwave are relay that deadly I am
glad I dont own a mobile phone.  and as for high tech gadgets hmmm... The
Soviet plane/boat that travels on or just above the water and can carry
tanks for rapid redeployment. The Australian Radar crystal which amplifies
radar signal a 100 fold developed by the CSIRO which I have been told makes
your Stealth fighter Pointless( As for details about this I don't think is
a secret, it is currently been tried in the US.)

 also the fact
> that soviet missiles are known for the unreliable nature and lack of
> accuracy , it is odd that in T2000 every missile hit its distinction .
> and lastly the boomers would have reduced mexico and the rest of the
> invading nations to slag for the impunity . 

There is a TW200 adventure about the last US boomer.

> the U.S military trains for the nuclear theater [ I  know we did ] and I
> assume all militaries do .[ comments ] that means the U.S. has
> contingency plans for maintaining the infrastructure , national security
> , and ability to wage war into the nuclear exchange .
> yet in T2000 the U.S. is caught flat footed and defenceless . right and I
> got a bridge to sell you . 

The fact that USSR has build some 1178 ICBMs since 1978 compared with none
by America. and some 2000 replacement rounds is assessed as being far above
the normal requiement for the soviets to maintain a credible deterrent
force.
( for those that don't know Warhead are only good for about 5 years ... I
have told some part of them decays and they don,t detonated or so i have
been told.

	I would like to know exactly how much thought and research went
> into the background and probability but it looks a little thin to me .
> also france staying out of a major war in europe ? no way . france is a
> strategically important and central nation and would be forced into the
> war .

You have got to be joking here because France is still pissed of  with
America about who controls the armed forces in europe under NATO. 

As for domination of space in 2300 I think it should had been Australia
because we didn't get all that lovely radioactive dust or at least for 6
month after, that's if you take in account of how long it take for air from
the northern to mix with air from the southern hem..... :) IMHO

P.s. the books I looked at pretty old 1990 prints include War Machine and
Sof mag's

>either to support NATO or by the soviet mediterranean fleet and
> airdrops into strategic locations  in the hopes of cutting supply to NATO
> forces . or maybe to preempt NATO operations . [ ex. nuking major
> shipping ports . ect . ] of course this is all theory and I could be
> wrong ..:>}

These have been destoyed taken out the last of the soviet radiers

Just for the record these are just my Opinoins.  As I play a long running
campain Twilight 2000 2.2 version where a tech level 11 Imperiam sees Earth
in the grips of a  globlewar an attempts to perform a police action.  Just
think a M1A2 against grav Tanks.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:48:16 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: How to get things done!

>The EU (French?) have a much smaller shuttle design in the works

HERMES - the major drive behind Ariane 5 being such a big complicated 
monstrosity - is pretty much cancelled.

>as do the Japanese, IIRC

HOPE, which is also cancelled (for all practical purposes) - there might be
flights of a subscale demonstrator.

The fashionable approach to spaceflight today is single-stage-to-orbit 
(or single-stage with slight modifications). Most ambitious is LockMart's
X-33 (a suborbital demonstrator leading to a flight vehicle to be called
VentureStar). It's a vertical-takeoff/horizontal landing (like the shuttle)
lifting body design, with aerospike engines; shuttle-sized payloads to orbit
but with a substantial risk of turning into something as expensive and 
complex as the shuttle.

Several less ambitous proposals are being floated around by small companies -
including fully-reuseable TSTOs, SSTO's that take off with empty tanks and
use mid-air refuelling before igniting their rockets, and a SSTO orbital
helicopter called ROTON. Hard to see which ones are likely to actually 
fly...but it's potentially very exciting.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:40:55 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

You wrote:

>> What happened was after the nuclear spasm of Thanksgiving 1997, the US
>> Congress conviened and in an exceedingly irregular session, elected a
>> President.  The Joint Chiefs of Staff refused to accept the legitimacy
>> of the new government, and held that martial law was still in effect.
>
> I just can't concieve of the military involving itself in politics to
> that extent.  Not since the Society of Cincinnattus has a serving line
> officer (other than McClellan-and he never contemplated mutiny)
> interfered in US internal civillian politics, other than for the good
> of the Service (i.e. trying to convince McCarthy to leave them alone,
> begging Congress for money, etc.)

The situation was more an involvement by default rather than an involvement
by design.  The nuclear strike and its after-effects killed the President
and Vice President, but a legitimate successor was found after a few
chaotic days.  One of the first acts taken by the new president was to
declare martial law.  Unfortunately, the successor dies (I think from a
heart attack) a while afterwards, and there were no more legitimate
successors *that is to say, there were no surviving cabinet members, the
speaker of the House and the President of teh Senate were also dead, as
were the members of the Supreme Court.  In addition, most of Congree had
also been killed, making it impossible to convene a session with a
legitimate quorum.  The martial law declaration was still valid, however,
and there was no limitation of time involved (the intent being that the
President would rescind the declaration at the appropriate time).

Later on, s small group of surviving congressmen, reinforced with political
cronies and warlord-appointed replacements, convened a session of Congress
and selected a new President.  The US military high command beleived this
is not permitted under the Constitution (presidential succession is VERY
murky, and there are very specific rules for picking emergency replacement
congressmembers), and refused to accept orders from the new Congress and
President, demanding instead new national elections to convene a legitimate
Congress.

Some Army friends of mine in the legal area were very interested in this
game scenario, from a professional standpoint.  They were all of the
opinion that the Joint Cheifs were justified in their refusal to recognize
the new civilian government.  Apparently, there is a department within FEMA
that is tasked with resolving these sorts of situations in an emergency
(sounds like IRIS), and they have a very clear list of who is in the line
of succession.

Steven Charlton

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:08:06 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, James Lindsay wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Sep 97 14:36:21 -0500, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>  
> > Diminishing returns? ;->  I think we are *well* over the top of the curve
> > on IC/EC engines, already. There's only so much extra *useable* power you
> > can squeeze out of these reactions so I don't think you'll see much
> > improvement from IC or EC in the future.  I could, of course, be wrong. ;->
> 
> You'd be surprised ;)  Actually, what is holding back the IC engine is
> not any inherent design "thingies", but the demands of the people that
> use them (who needs to go from 0-60 mph in under 5 seconds just to
> pick up the kids from daycare).  Gas economy and emissions are also
> major factors :)

	Yeah, what James said. If you want to see what can be sqoze out of
IC engines, look at the design of a top end crotch rocket motorcycle...a
few years back, production Yamaha 1200's were putting out more
acceleration than anything legal on the road and most things that weren't
legal on the road...like F16's ;-)

Last I saw some of these things were running toward a top end of over
20,000 rpm!

Of course, if you want to be really insane, I mean truly insane, look at
what they get out of top fuel dragsters these days. These puppies have
higher acceleration rates than _anything_ on the planet and most things
off. What's holding them down, so to speak, is not engine technology, but
clutch technology...getting the power from the engine TO the wheels
without blowing the transmission and clutch into tiny little pieces.

Most top fuellies don't have the clutch fully engaged until the reace is
mostly over.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:31:36 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re:Get a clue Harold

jim mckee writes:

>thats great harold , continue buying into the media enforced belief
>that alabama and the south is full of racist just iching to hang some 
>one .
>note where the militia nazis live , michigan pennsylvania , upstate new
>york .. I am from the south and I had never seen racism till I visited
>new york , so shut your pie hole .

  Excuse me?  Alabama got its reputation not from vicious rumor, but
from fact.  I could have just as easily inserted Georgia, Mississippi,
South Carolina or any of a number of other states.  I doubt seriously
that the population of Bavaria as a whole is out to lynch Turks, yet
enough incidents have happened there to justify some comment on it.  The
situation reminded me of America's Deep South (not everybody there is
out a lynch blacks or foreigners, but...), thus my comments.

   As for militia "nazis" (I assume that you speak of Aryan Nation and
similar groups, not militia groups as a whole), they are pretty much
everywhere, North and South.  We are fortunate that their numbers are
are small, though one would not get that impression from left-wing
journalists, who's favorite hobby it seems is trying to uncover "the big
Nazis conspiracy" that is suppose to be lurking just around the corner.

Regards,

Harold

P.S.  The place where I have seen the most racial division in the U.S.:
Los Angeles, California, though I would hasten to add that much of that
division was based in economics rather than in any genuine racial
hatred.

- --h

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:31:58 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825

Jory M. Earl writes:

>I had an arguement with a non-sci-fi friend the other day, she was saying
>that we should not increase any space programs because of the amount of
>damage that rocket launches do to the ozone layer.
>
>I tried o tell her that any damage is minimal compared to other
>industries,
>and the returns were worth it.... but I didn't come out as convincing
>enough!

   The next time you see her, inform her that volcanoes have done more
damage to the ozone layer in the past five years than all of the rocket
experiments ever conducted *combined*.

   Shall we try to plug up all the volcanoes?

   She should get the *facts* before listening to a bunch of eco-trash
talk.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1830
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1831



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Access to CT,MT & TNE
Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships
Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see
Like Sex
Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see
Re: American Jingoism
Re: America 2300ad
re: American Jingoism
Re: America 2300ad
re: American Jingoism
Re: Gravity Advice
Re: More on T2000 and T2300ad
The ongoing discussion on 2300 and US global conquest
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1828
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: America 2300ad
Ken's Tweaks
Ken's Tweaks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:51:11 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Access to CT,MT & TNE

At 03:43 AM 9/15/97 EDT, llugh wrote:
>, MT stopping too soon
>
>thank the gods that game reeked specealy the star ship system and combat
>, I never could figure out how much a trader could carrie as I was used
>to tons and MT use cubic meters , and as we all know a cubic meter of one
>thing is not the same as a cubic meter of another .

Actually, I liked MT.  The design sequences were acceptable, and I have not
used a published system for combat in ages.  On the other hand, I liked
FF&S much. much more.  fit better with my gearhead ways.

Given that starships are usually most constrained by volume, it makes a lot
of sense to describe cargos in cubic meters.  How much they weigh is rarely
a concern, except for a really big ship carrying a dense cargo.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:05:10 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships

James Lindsay wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:05:34 -0700, Evyn MacDude wrote:
>
> > MJ Dougherty wrote:
> >
> > > I assume that the reason security patrols aboard supercarriers etc carry
> > > shotguns in something to do with not wanting to penetrate the inner walls
> > > (no chance of damaging a bulkhead).
> >
> > < Sound of load Buzzer Going off > Wrong answer. Nope we carried shotguns'cause
> > they could fill your average passageway with lead. Training also included
> > using things like aiming low so pellets would bounce off the deck taking off
> > their legs. Heck when I was in the M14 was still the issue long arm.
>
> Any truth to a TML posting six months or so ago stating that they were
> for anti-terrorist or anti-boarding party use?  (The troops using the
> shotguns would storm a room and the rest of the crew were trained to
> hit the deck at the same time.  The only ones left standing were the
> bad guys, who became easy targets.)

 I wouldn't call it training so much as aversion therapy. Anyone standing
in the way when the alarm went off Got Knocked down. Any one not
recognized in your assigned Security area was a legit target. Primary
security areas are special weapons magazines, reactor controls, cdic,
and radio rooms.
Anti-Boarding stations was fun also. All the .50 BMGs were mounted,
and all SAF members were armed and stationed at the rails.
- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 97 14:12:42 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see

Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com> wrote:
> What I'd like to see is Aliens of the Marches, Volume I (Vargr & Aslan).
> Perhaps two seperate books.  The Vargr really deserve their own book [...]

These two aliens are significant enough that they each deserve their own
book, IMHO.  Loren, if you're listening, I STILL have that complete Aslan
article I wrote for _Challenge_ (with considerable input from you), 'way
back when.  It's 18,000 words of Aslan history and culture, and all it
needs is a new character generation chapter ...  ;-)

> Another book on my wish list is FF&S: The Return of Gearheads .  This is
> the manual that covers some ot the vital stuff that the first one missed.
> "Wet" ship design, robots, primitive transport & genetic engineering [...]

Dave and I would like to do this, and specifically have naval vessels,
robots, and personal cybernetics on the list of items we'd definitely like
to include.  Whether or not this actually appears would depend on IG more
than anything else.

> A good add on would be "liftwood" rules for "wet" ship design and Ether
> Proppeller rules. 

:-)  I've long been a proponent of adding Ether Propellors to FF&S, but so
far nobody's let me do it.  :-(   Scott "2G" Kellogg did manage to put an
ether flyer into the Gilbert and Sullivan Traveller adventure he wrote
for Travellers' Digest, though.  ;-)


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:16:26 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Like Sex

Tommy Grav wrote:

> > The background. The setting. The Fun!
> 
> Most of all the fun.  But my players love it and enjoy themself. And no
> matter what other say, we're still playing Traveller.


I'd say you've got the main ingredient here.  As long as it is fun, it
doesn't matter if it is Traveller or not.  It doesn't matter what rules
system you use.


In all this heated opinion that sticks on the TML like thick mayo, I
think we sometimes forget the bottom line.

....and that is, to have fun.  We got into role playing in the first
place to have fun.

It is like sex.  As long as you are having fun, just about everything
you do is OK.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:28:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Supplements I'd like to see

>   What I'd like to see is Aliens of the Marches, Volume I (Vargr & Aslan).

While I also would like additional data on the Major Races, I have a
wealth of pre-T4 material to draw on for that (OK, I know that will not
help the newer players, but this is what I want!)  I would like to see a
lot more done with the intelligent races/non-intelligent beasties/flora
that can be used to flesh out worlds that I am detailing.

Robots...Why are robots always one of the last design sequences released?
Or is it my imagination?

I'd also like to see some 'canon' addressing of background features.  What
can we expect to find at a starport, outside of the passenger terminal?
What would the traders expect to find for facilities?  For instance, in my
last game, they landed at a Type 'E' starport on a TL-3 world and needed
fuel. Amazingly, the facilities existed...the entreprenuer dropped one end
of the hose in the local water supply, attached an appropriate connector
to the ship's supply valve and got the donkey harnessed to the pump...

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:29:37 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: American Jingoism

jim mckee wrote:

>Dom
>about those french boomers , I bet some one in DC knows there exact
>locations at any givin time . :>}

Possibly - don't stop a nuclear mine/charge on a nice quiet SS or even a
cargo ship in a US harbour. The old, famous briefcase bomb routine.

How good the French technology is would be interesting - I mean, the UK
developed its systems from US power and weapon systems., but the French
went it alone.

Dom

NB Jim, before you lay into Doug Berry, why not have a look at his web site
first?


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:01:30 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

Ken wrote:

>Funny how all the new stuff is coming out of Russia neh?  And some of it
>(T-90, BMP-3) is said (by US military testers) to be superior to current US
>gear.  Hmm, so if you know if T2K has a vehicle construction system let me
>know.  Or if you have some of the books for sale let me know too.

T2K(*) has a vehicle system - it's called Fire Fusion and Steel.... (or
should be if what the blurb on the second edition said about the house
system is true).

(*) confusing to an Atari Jaguar owner - do you mean tempest 2000?! ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:38:53 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: American Jingoism

James wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:23:53 +0100, SD Mooney wrote:
>
>> Glenn wrote:
>>
>> >Quote the Lindsay:
>>
>> >The South African Defence Force had a non-official motto of Cairo in 30,
>> >meaning the SADF could fight its way to, and conquer, Cairo in 30 Days. Not
>> >many people doubt they could have done it. The USA could have a motto of
>> >Europe in 365, sort of. The Euros would not use their nukes on themselves,
>> >as, other than Britain and Russia, none of them could even reach the USA.
>>
>> Ahem. Bearing in mind that this all relates to 2300...
>
>FWIW, I did not right the above paragraph; Glenn Crawford did.  His
>last post didn't quote my posting very well at all and his entire post
>looked as if I had wrote it (ie: no ">" leading each line of quoted
>text).

Apologies.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:21:33 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

Harry wrote:

>At 11:01 PM 14/09/97 +0100, you wrote:

>>However, if you don't like it, you don't play it - like me and TNE! ;-)
>
><shakes head sadly>
>
>another attack on TNE?


Absolutely *not*. I don't play TNE because I intensely dislike the rules
system (although there are some nice bits like the space combat..) I own
most (all but 3) TNE books, but I prefer the CT/MT eras and use T4.1 / T4
in them. The only things in TNE that make me froth at the mouth are the
abandonment of Thruster Plates and the way that the plot was hidden from
the Refs. And then GDW had to fold.

TNE - it is a great system if you like your games that way - personally, I
tend to be minimalist on the rules front. My comment was refering to the
complaint about the 2300 timeline which was saying it was no good with the
French dominating it. I never complained about the release of Virus on the
Traveller background - audacious and awe inspiring - and its effects. I
like both the Regency and the Reformation coalition, but prefer not to play
in them.

The crux of my point was meant to be that even if you don't like a
background, it doesn't make it invalid. You can always play in a different
milieau / background.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:40:55 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: American Jingoism

Harold wrote:

>SD Mooney writes:
>
>>Ahem. Bearing in mind that this all relates to 2300...
>>
>>What about the French SSBNs? And they do have a couple of nice carriers...
>>So that is 3 sets of nukes stopping US global domination. And somehow, I
>>think that the French Government would have less of a resistance to using
>>them than the UK, as they don't have the same cultural heritage.
>
>   Assuming a scenario where the US Navy is intact,

But in the context of the discussion the US Navy is fighting a war for
global domination, something that may stretch it at the moment.

>the French aircraft
>carriers would be lucky to make it past the Azores before being sunk.
>Assuming an intact US Navy and if surprise could be achieved, Los
>Angeles-class attack submarines could sink them *in port*.  IIRC, the
>French carriers would rate as light carriers in the American Navy--they
>are far from being in the same class as the Nimitz (perhaps close to the
>Ranger in size?), and the aircraft they carry wouldn't last long against
>Hornets and Tomcats.

Fair point

>   French SSBNs are inferior to Soviet and American submarines.  I don't
>know what their boat captains are like, but similar to the aircraft
>carriers, I doubt they could get past the Azores--far from missile
>range.

Possibly - I don't tend to under estimate French nuclear capacity though.
They have one of the best infrastructures in the world outside the UK.

>   I'm getting a mental picture of what the Seawolf would do to shipping
>off Brest.  Ouch....

Just stay away from that continental shelf! <g>  Seriously, any nuclear
power is going to threaten the US more with nuclear guerilla(*) warfare.

(*) you can call them terrorists if you want!

All the best

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:30:16 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Note: the above is assuming that the Zilans *are* native, or that their
> ancestors came to the planet long enough ago (millienia at least!) for
> them to be adapted to the planet. If it's a colony that's only been
> there a few generations, then they are *potentially* just as strong as
> the players. But it may take them years of hard work to "adapt" to
> normal gravity.


Hmmm.  The Spinward Marches was settled in the 600's.  My campaign is
currently in 1105.  That means that the Zilan natives have only been
there for 500 years.

So, you are saying that Zilan natives will be just like my PCs who are
going there?



I've got a problem here.  Maybe it is a problem with sci-fi and real
science in general.

Zila is a major agricultural center in the Aramis subsector.  Some of
you have heard of the famous Zilan eiswein.  There are three major
wineries there who ship product all over the Spinward Marches and into
Vargr space.

Now, when you read about Zila in the module (The Traveller Adventure),
it is really just like any other planet.  It is earth-like, standard
atmosphere, lush and pretty, and conducive to growing grapes.

Then, I run the planet through the WBG, and I get all of the things it
is supposed to be except the gravity.

Now, I'm stuck with a sci-fi planet that has really low grav.  That's
OK, except I'm not sure how these people ever leave their planet.

And, there are several planets like this in the Imperium.  Communities
in space stations and on moons I can handwave away by saying that the
facility they are in have tuned grav plates to 1G.  But, of all these
low tech worlds--especially the ones who have breathable atmospheres
and, thus, aren't always inside a faciltiy, these people are getting
pretty used to the gravity pull of the world.

If it is such a problem for humans to live here, then why was the place
settled 500 years ago in the first place!

I need a handwave, a head thought, something to feel better about this.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:52:16 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: More on T2000 and T2300ad

On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:41:04 -0500 "Joseph R. Dietrich"
<yikes@evansville.net> writes:
>>Unless you somehow think that B-1's can burn raw crude oil.
>
>Hey, those jet-skis did in Waterworld!  8^D
>
	Not to mention the fact the military vehicles can run on wood
alcohol which is easy to produce . also a nuclear strike as listed in the
T2000 book would not destroy the infrastructure of the intire U.S. and
the government would have survived relitively intack in air force 1 and
various under ground bases in the nation . food would be supplied by the
military , the police and the red cross [ unless thier all in poland also
]
	IMNSHO this background was poorly concieved and every event seems
to have targeted the U.S. . why ? china recovered better yet they were
nuked and involved in ground war for years . the soviets also must have
developed stealth ICBMs if they managed to catch all of the aircraft on
the round and hit DC and killing the gov. it takes something like 14
minutes for an ICBM to travel from russia to the U.S. 
	but enough of this lets talk about traveller 
I like T4 best ..

chip

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:51:51 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: The ongoing discussion on 2300 and US global conquest

What if the French used Ariane to place a large sub-orbital nuclear device
over the US and 'EM pulse' the electronics.... exit economy supporting
global dominiation?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:21:05 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1828

on my last post I ment U.S. national born in texas not mexico ..

chip
who only removes my left foot from my mouth to insert my right one

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:04:46 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

Moin Jory M. Earl,

> It's been stated that the Ref involved doesn't have any knowledge of
> advanced computer systems, and that's why he made his ruling.  I
> disagree.  Anyone with sufficient knowledge of advanced computer systems
> would inherently understand that 'software' of the Imperium is not only
> extremly hard to copy (if not impossible), but that it may also use
> aggressive copy protection methods based on artificial intelligence.

	Of the early 3I had its Tl12 copy protection methods.IMHO mainly
	based on public keys and signed object which where dynamicaly linked
	between several network nodes. Based on RoM TL debate, I'm now asuming
	that we (the solomanies) have a techlevel bonus in computer, so
	we can have a clue of how Tl10 computers look like. Tl10 to 12 are
	called dynamicaly linked and in my private handwaving this means
	nothing more that there is not raw data, but dynamical linkable
	objects. If you buy them, you download them and they are certified
	by the sellers key, they install on your machine, and the copy
	you have dos only run 3 specified computers (bridge,engine,backup)
	because your computer also has a public key certificate.

	Once the tool is installed on your computers you can access them
	at any point because they are dynamicaly linked. When accessing
	them a parts of the object will be dynamicaly linked into the
	computer you use for "terminal". Hard cryptographie will constrain
	security.

	The late 3I had Tl13+ computers which are holographic linked,
	holographic linked is a prestep to automatic intelligence, you
	have with Tl16+ synaptical linked systems. But Tl16+ never worked
	as exspected (see Kinunir) so the late 3I used a living silicon
	being for their so called Tl17 imperial transponders. 
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 15:39:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

In a message dated 97-09-15 04:46:32 EDT, you write:

<< The T-90 is a myth.  Also known as the FST-1, it was the product of the
 CIS'a worst case scenario.  The T-80 is the best the Soviets ever had, it
 even that tank is kind of weak.
 -- >>
Uhh, I've read reports on it.  From sources much better than Janes.  Next
you'll tell me the BMP-3 is a myth too.....
BTW: the T-90 in essence is a upgraded T-72 with an improved engine (variants
for diesel and turbine), Arena anti-missile.  In fact a T-72 can be refit to
T-90 standards.  they are fazing out the T-80 in the Moscow Military
District.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:25:40 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: Ken's Tweaks

> Okay, I'm letting you know. I'm interested in seeing the HTH tweak.

Here's another post you may be interested in.  It's a tweak on stun 
damage.

Kenneth.

================================================================


In thinking about my first post on Ken's Combat Tweaks, I have 
remembered another tweak that I've implemented since I've started 
using the T4 rules.  This one has to do with Stun Damage.


Healing Stun Damage:

Stun damage.  See the rule on page 57.  It says that a character 
making a hand to hand attack can attack to stun rather than do real 
damage.

I actually like this rule, and I can see its use in combat.  But, I 
question how much control you have over yourself when you are 
pounding them to knock them our or subdue them.

It seems to me that there is a fine line between attacking to stun 
and attacking to kill.  In the heat of a fight, I'm not sure a 
character has complete control over that.

In this vein, I have tweaked the stun damage rule.  

I do everything as written--basically running the combat as normal.  
But, after the fight is over, I make a distinction over which damage 
is stun and which is leathal.

How I do this is simple, and an example best describes it.

We've got Jake, who's beat to a pulp after a fight--but still 
standing.  His original stats were 875.  With the damage from the 
fight, his stats are now 132.

What I do is roll in 1 D6 increments how much of that damage is 
stun (we are taking into account that his opponent attacked him 
with the intent to stun).  All damage that is not stun damage is 
leathal.

So, first I'd look at Jake's Str.  He had an 8.  Now, he's got a 1.  
He's lost 7 points.  I'd roll (or have the player roll) 1 D6 to see 
how many points of the damage were stun.  I roll and get a 3.

Then I check the next 6 point increment--but this is only 1 point 
(we've already checked the other 6 points).  Rolling higher dice with 
the player, the player wins, and this is also considered a point of 
stun damage.

Looking at what we've just done, we know that Jake has 4 stun 
points out of the total 7 damage points done to him.  

I'd go on to check the other two stats in the same manner, and after 
that's done, we let him heal.

I heal all stun damage first because it heals so much faster.  Then, 
when that is completed, we start at that point to heal the lethal 
damage.

This procedure does not need to be done every time.  You only need to 
do it when you need to know a character's current hit point state 
before he is healed--like if Jake gets into another fight within 24 
hours.

Otherwise, given Jake gets proper medical attention, all of 
his wounds heal anyway, and you don't have to worry about it.



Reducing Damage for Checked Blows:

On page 57, where they talk about stun damage, it mentions that some 
weapons can be used to inflict stun damage.  They refer to a listing, 
but I haven't found it in the book.  Maybe it was on the missing 
weapon's chart.

I assume they are talking about blunt melee weapons--at least that 
seems logical to me.

Given this, I'd handle stun damage in the same way.  If a player 
indicates that he wants his character to really check his blow, I'd 
reduce his damage by one die.  That way, less damage is applied to 
the victim, but I would check the same way to see how much of it was 
stun damage.



Stun Damage from Explosions:

One last thing about stun damage.  The EA, on page 9, lists an 
optional rule about explosions.  There, it says you could put a limit 
on the maximum lethal damage an explosion can do--3 dice is suggested 
with the rest of the explosion damage being considered non-lethal 
(stun).

That's one way to handle it.  The EA also suggests another way to do 
this, and I like this one better.  Half the damage that penetrates 
armor is considered lethal--the other half is not.

You can roll damage and divide by two, but what I do is divide the 
damage dice in two.  For example, if 4 dice of damage is being 
applied to the character, 2 dice are considered lethal (I roll it) 
and 2 dice are considered stun (and, I roll that seperately).

This keeps with the spirit of the rule but also adds some variety and 
uncertainty to the roll--I could roll 2 points stun and 12 points 
lethal, or even vice versa.

If the damage dice are odd--say, 3 dice of damage penetrate, I'd 
either roll the player higher die to see if it is 2 dice stun and 1 
dice damage or the other way around.  Or, I'd decide based on the 
situation (if the character is in a fox hole and a grenade lands on 
him doing 3 dice--I'd say that automatically it is 2 dice lethal and 
1 die stun.)

It is clear from the EA that the ref should get a good general rule 
that he likes with regards to explosive damage.  Between the EA and 
Book 1, there are three different ways to handle this type of damage.

Let me suggest a fourth.  It's a combination of the two optional 
rules in the EA.

The first rule I mentioned above says that the first 3 dice of an 
explosion is considered lethal damage, and all other damage after 
that point is considered stun.  The second rule above says that half 
the damage of an explosion is considered stun and the other half 
lethal.

Combining those two, consider this as an explosion damage option.  
The first 3 dice of an explosion that penetrates armor is considered 
lethal, and after that point, damage is halved between lethal and 
stun (either divide total damage points in two or divide dice in 
two--take your pick).

I think that explosions should be pretty hazardous, so I'm inclined 
to use this fourth option in my game.

Kenneth.  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:25:39 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: Ken's Tweaks

> Okay, I'm letting you know. I'm interested in seeing the HTH tweak.

Here's another post you may be interested in.  It's a tweak on stun 
damage.

Kenneth.

================================================================


In thinking about my first post on Ken's Combat Tweaks, I have 
remembered another tweak that I've implemented since I've started 
using the T4 rules.  This one has to do with Stun Damage.


Healing Stun Damage:

Stun damage.  See the rule on page 57.  It says that a character 
making a hand to hand attack can attack to stun rather than do real 
damage.

I actually like this rule, and I can see its use in combat.  But, I 
question how much control you have over yourself when you are 
pounding them to knock them our or subdue them.

It seems to me that there is a fine line between attacking to stun 
and attacking to kill.  In the heat of a fight, I'm not sure a 
character has complete control over that.

In this vein, I have tweaked the stun damage rule.  

I do everything as written--basically running the combat as normal.  
But, after the fight is over, I make a distinction over which damage 
is stun and which is leathal.

How I do this is simple, and an example best describes it.

We've got Jake, who's beat to a pulp after a fight--but still 
standing.  His original stats were 875.  With the damage from the 
fight, his stats are now 132.

What I do is roll in 1 D6 increments how much of that damage is 
stun (we are taking into account that his opponent attacked him 
with the intent to stun).  All damage that is not stun damage is 
leathal.

So, first I'd look at Jake's Str.  He had an 8.  Now, he's got a 1.  
He's lost 7 points.  I'd roll (or have the player roll) 1 D6 to see 
how many points of the damage were stun.  I roll and get a 3.

Then I check the next 6 point increment--but this is only 1 point 
(we've already checked the other 6 points).  Rolling higher dice with 
the player, the player wins, and this is also considered a point of 
stun damage.

Looking at what we've just done, we know that Jake has 4 stun 
points out of the total 7 damage points done to him.  

I'd go on to check the other two stats in the same manner, and after 
that's done, we let him heal.

I heal all stun damage first because it heals so much faster.  Then, 
when that is completed, we start at that point to heal the lethal 
damage.

This procedure does not need to be done every time.  You only need to 
do it when you need to know a character's current hit point state 
before he is healed--like if Jake gets into another fight within 24 
hours.

Otherwise, given Jake gets proper medical attention, all of 
his wounds heal anyway, and you don't have to worry about it.



Reducing Damage for Checked Blows:

On page 57, where they talk about stun damage, it mentions that some 
weapons can be used to inflict stun damage.  They refer to a listing, 
but I haven't found it in the book.  Maybe it was on the missing 
weapon's chart.

I assume they are talking about blunt melee weapons--at least that 
seems logical to me.

Given this, I'd handle stun damage in the same way.  If a player 
indicates that he wants his character to really check his blow, I'd 
reduce his damage by one die.  That way, less damage is applied to 
the victim, but I would check the same way to see how much of it was 
stun damage.



Stun Damage from Explosions:

One last thing about stun damage.  The EA, on page 9, lists an 
optional rule about explosions.  There, it says you could put a limit 
on the maximum lethal damage an explosion can do--3 dice is suggested 
with the rest of the explosion damage being considered non-lethal 
(stun).

That's one way to handle it.  The EA also suggests another way to do 
this, and I like this one better.  Half the damage that penetrates 
armor is considered lethal--the other half is not.

You can roll damage and divide by two, but what I do is divide the 
damage dice in two.  For example, if 4 dice of damage is being 
applied to the character, 2 dice are considered lethal (I roll it) 
and 2 dice are considered stun (and, I roll that seperately).

This keeps with the spirit of the rule but also adds some variety and 
uncertainty to the roll--I could roll 2 points stun and 12 points 
lethal, or even vice versa.

If the damage dice are odd--say, 3 dice of damage penetrate, I'd 
either roll the player higher die to see if it is 2 dice stun and 1 
dice damage or the other way around.  Or, I'd decide based on the 
situation (if the character is in a fox hole and a grenade lands on 
him doing 3 dice--I'd say that automatically it is 2 dice lethal and 
1 die stun.)

It is clear from the EA that the ref should get a good general rule 
that he likes with regards to explosive damage.  Between the EA and 
Book 1, there are three different ways to handle this type of damage.

Let me suggest a fourth.  It's a combination of the two optional 
rules in the EA.

The first rule I mentioned above says that the first 3 dice of an 
explosion is considered lethal damage, and all other damage after 
that point is considered stun.  The second rule above says that half 
the damage of an explosion is considered stun and the other half 
lethal.

Combining those two, consider this as an explosion damage option.  
The first 3 dice of an explosion that penetrates armor is considered 
lethal, and after that point, damage is halved between lethal and 
stun (either divide total damage points in two or divide dice in 
two--take your pick).

I think that explosions should be pretty hazardous, so I'm inclined 
to use this fourth option in my game.

Kenneth.  

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1831
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 15 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1832



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1828
Re: dan lane
Re: More on T2000 and T2300ad
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad
Re: Gravity Advice
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825
2300's Great Game
FFS2 Drop tanks was Re: Jump torpedoes
re: T IV - speculation
re:X-boats and couriers
Twilight 2000 Websites
Patriot ABM?  NOT!
Re: Gravitics and Fusion technology
T2K
Re: Jump in Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:06:47 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

John Atkinson wrote:

> You wrote:
>
> >Uhhh, like <drum roll> VIRUS? :)~
> >And I expect most high grade "software" like that to actually be
> firmware.
> > Possibly embedded or on special ROM type plugin-cards.  With software
> being
>
> In Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion books, all of the Legion's
> computor-controlled equipment (and that's a lot of things, down to the
> individual radios) had their 'software' permenantly engraved on
> synthetic diamond disks they referred to as 'WORM-Write Once, Read
> Many' memory.  Couldn't reprogram it, but is pretty secure from any
> sort of tampering.  I'd think a lot of things on a starship (say, like
> the reactor control program or the autopilot) that don't need
> reprogrammed would be on this basis to prevent tampering.
>
> John M. Atkinson

Well if Dr. Pournelle came up with the idea, it's a good bet it's a sound
one.  He's an extremely intelligent man with multiple PHD's in various
fields.


- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships

> > < Sound of load Buzzer Going off > Wrong answer. Nope we carried shotguns'cause
> > they could fill your average passageway with lead. Training also included
> > using things like aiming low so pellets would bounce off the deck taking off
> > their legs. Heck when I was in the M14 was still the issue long arm.
> 
> Any truth to a TML posting six months or so ago stating that they were
> for anti-terrorist or anti-boarding party use?  (The troops using the
> shotguns would storm a room and the rest of the crew were trained to
> hit the deck at the same time.  The only ones left standing were the
> bad guys, who became easy targets.)
> 

Based on my experience, they issue shotguns to the ship's security
personnel for a couple of reasons.  Traveller accurately reflects one of
those reasons.  If your charactor has no skill in Gun Cbt, which weapon
does he have the best chance to hit with?  Answer - the shotgun!  It's
easy to learn, and once learned it does not require a lot of maintenance
to keep your skill at an acceptable level.

It also is capable of inflicting a fair amount of damage to personnel,
while minimizing equipment damage.  Of course, it's kind of hard to
provide advancing personnel cover with one, which is why the teams are
split between handguns and shotguns. 

And yes, on American ships (at least as of 3 years ago), if a security
alert is called away and you are in the area, you hit the deck.  We were
trained to look for movement and home in on it.  A fair number of my
shipmates spent some time secured and on the deck 'cause they were moving
when my team would go by.  (It wasn't nearly as amusing on my last ship
when the marines did it to me...:)

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:21:34 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 03:39 PM 9/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-15 04:46:32 EDT, you write:
>
><< The T-90 is a myth.  Also known as the FST-1, it was the product of the
> CIS'a worst case scenario.  The T-80 is the best the Soviets ever had, it
> even that tank is kind of weak.
> -- >>
>Uhh, I've read reports on it.  From sources much better than Janes.  Next
>you'll tell me the BMP-3 is a myth too.....

Since I've driven a BMP-3, I'd hardly call it a myth.  I was refering to
the T-90 as shown in T2K.

>BTW: the T-90 in essence is a upgraded T-72 with an improved engine (variants
>for diesel and turbine), Arena anti-missile.  In fact a T-72 can be refit to
>T-90 standards.  they are fazing out the T-80 in the Moscow Military
>District.

They're calling it the T-90?  I though a new name had been chosen...
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:18:01 -0500
From: "William A. Barnett-Lewis" <wlewis@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1828

Traveller-digest wrote:

> > also I should not compare the 80's T2000 background with 90's tech and
> > military forces . short and simple the U.S. would most probably not bog
> > down in a ground war as our air superiority would sweep the enemy from
> > the sky , our combined arms would crush any resistance on the ground and
> > our navy would keep the sea clear for continued supply and troop movement

I've been silent through this. But after 15 years in either cav or
infantry as a US Army NCO, this _stupidity_ has to be answered. In the
Gulf, we fought against poorly trained,  even worsley equiped, and brain
damaged lead, soldiers. Even in it's worst place, the soviet government
would have engaged us in a war that  would have been far different. For
better or worse, they would have believed the were fighting for Rodina.
And that is _all_ that would matter to every soldat in the Red army. We
stand, as soldiers, against the fall of night; from whomever that
darkness may come.

William A. Barnett-Lewis
wlewis@mailbag.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We are artists.  Poets paint motion  and light.  Historians paint
stills.  It can be dangerous to get history from a poet.  It can also be
the greatest blessing."
      Larry Miller Murdock
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:43:56 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: dan lane

At 03:25 PM 9/15/97 GMT, you wrote:
>"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> writes:
>>>Remember that the last war America fought on it's own, we lost.  
>>WHAT? I mean that. WHAT? This is a gross insult to the very brave South
>>Koreans, Thais, and Australians that joined America in the Vietnam war. 
>
>Not to mention Canadians.

This is starting to sound like a Monty Python bit...

Right, in addition to the American forces, some 500,000 or so, there were,
in no particular order, Australians, Canadians, South Koreans, Thais, and
quite possibly commando pygmy shrews!

I will point out that the Canadians went as members of the US military.

Struggling mightily to bring this back to Traveller, how much would
planetary identity eefect the ability of the Imperial forces to operate..
We've seen here that even between alleged allies, feelings can run hot.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:19:30 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: More on T2000 and T2300ad

At 02:52 PM 9/15/97 EDT, you wrote:

>	Not to mention the fact the military vehicles can run on wood
>alcohol which is easy to produce . also a nuclear strike as listed in the
>T2000 book would not destroy the infrastructure of the intire U.S. and
>the government would have survived relitively intack in air force 1 and
>various under ground bases in the nation . food would be supplied by the
>military , the police and the red cross [ unless thier all in poland also
>]

SPUTTER!

You're going to fly a F-111 on wood alchol?!?   Riigghhtt....

BTW: This is my last post on this topic.  If you wish to continue, please
email me privately.

I'm now looking at the U.S. Nuclear targets list in T2K.

As of June 2000, the US casulties stood at 135.2 million, or 52% of the
population.  Think about it.  Every other person is killed either in the
attack, or in the immediate aftermath.  Among the targets were Washington,
Andrews AFB, and Ft. Meade; which took a combined 1.25Mt.  Also in the same
region were hits to Arlington, Quantico, and Ft. AP Hill (1.5Mt).  

The first strikes were decapitation hits.  The President was gone.

Now, the Military.  According to the American Combat Vehicle Handbook, the
following forces were in the US as of 1 July 2000:

Colorado: 100 Inf Division  5000 men, 6 tanks
          Cadet Brigade 900 men, 2 tanks
Hawaii:   29th Inf Bde 3000 men, 8 tanks
East Coast:
          78 Inf Div 1000 men, no tanks
          43rd MP Bde 1400 men, no tanks
Central/Southern US:
          194th Armored Bde 1600 men, 36 tanks
          197th Inf Bde 1500 men, 13 tanks
          49 Arm Div   3000 men, 19 tanks
          95 Inf Div 4000 men, 3 tanks
          85 Inf Div (1st Bde only) 400 men, no tanks
          98 Inf Div 3000 men, 4 tanks
California:
          40 Inf Div (less 1st Bde) 3000 men, 16 tanks
          46 Inf Div 1000 men, no tanks
          221st MP Bde 700 men, no tanks
          91 Inf Div (L) 600 men, no tanks
          49th MP Bde 700 men, no tanks
US/Canadian Northwest:
          10 Inf Div (Mountain) 1000 men, 2 light tanks
          1st Inf Bde (Artic Recon) 400 men, no tanks
          2nd Inf Bde (Artic Recon) 300 men, no tanks
          47 Inf Div  5000 men, no tanks
          104 Inf Div (L) 4000 men, 4 tanks

This doesn't include Engineering Brigades, who I imagine would be pretty
busy.  Civ Gov controls two Infantry Divisions along with several brigades.

Consider that a normal Infantry Brigade has 3000 men and 48 tanks.  A
division has three brigades.  Starting to understand what has happened?

>	IMNSHO this background was poorly concieved and every event seems
>to have targeted the U.S. . why ? china recovered better yet they were
>nuked and involved in ground war for years . the soviets also must have
>developed stealth ICBMs if they managed to catch all of the aircraft on
>the round and hit DC and killing the gov. it takes something like 14
>minutes for an ICBM to travel from russia to the U.S.

China was nuked too.  In 2300, China is three seperate countries, only one
of which (Manchuria) has any sort of interstellar presence.

By the way, the flight tiome from a ballistic missile sub to target is 5
minutes from launch.

as I said above, any follow-ups on this to my personal email please.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:30:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

>In Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion books, all of the Legion's 
>computor-controlled equipment (and that's a lot of things, down to the 
>individual radios) had their 'software' permenantly engraved on 
>synthetic diamond disks they referred to as 'WORM-Write Once, Read 
>Many' memory.  Couldn't reprogram it, but is pretty secure from any 
>sort of tampering.

We have the same thing today without the synthetic diamond, its called
"CD-ROM" :)

>I'd think a lot of things on a starship (say, like 
>the reactor control program or the autopilot) that don't need 
>reprogrammed would be on this basis to prevent tampering.  

No software above a certain complexity is ever truly bug-free.  A computer
with well documented errors is stable, granted, but is usually never
bug-free.  As a result, software will constantly have to be patched and
upgraded.  I don't think that a completely "read only" computer architecture
will ever come about.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:25:20 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad

>Just for the record these are just my Opinoins.  As I play a long running
>campain Twilight 2000 2.2 version where a tech level 11 Imperiam sees Earth
>in the grips of a  globlewar an attempts to perform a police action.  Just
>think a M1A2 against grav Tanks.

You have read Harry Turtledove's -Worldwar_ of course......
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:34:15 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

At 01:30 PM 9/15/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Note: the above is assuming that the Zilans *are* native, or that their
>> ancestors came to the planet long enough ago (millienia at least!) for
>> them to be adapted to the planet. If it's a colony that's only been
>> there a few generations, then they are *potentially* just as strong as
>> the players. But it may take them years of hard work to "adapt" to
>> normal gravity.
>
>Hmmm.  The Spinward Marches was settled in the 600's.  My campaign is
>currently in 1105.  That means that the Zilan natives have only been
>there for 500 years.
>
>So, you are saying that Zilan natives will be just like my PCs who are
>going there?

They'll be some adaption.. the possibilitiy that Zilan natives will suffer
heart propblems on higher grav worlds is still there, simplyt because their
entire lives have been spent taking it easy, so to speak.

>I've got a problem here.  Maybe it is a problem with sci-fi and real
>science in general.
>
>Zila is a major agricultural center in the Aramis subsector.  Some of
>you have heard of the famous Zilan eiswein.  There are three major
>wineries there who ship product all over the Spinward Marches and into
>Vargr space.
>
>Now, when you read about Zila in the module (The Traveller Adventure),
>it is really just like any other planet.  It is earth-like, standard
>atmosphere, lush and pretty, and conducive to growing grapes.
>
>Then, I run the planet through the WBG, and I get all of the things it
>is supposed to be except the gravity.
>
>Now, I'm stuck with a sci-fi planet that has really low grav.  That's
>OK, except I'm not sure how these people ever leave their planet.
>
>And, there are several planets like this in the Imperium.  Communities
>in space stations and on moons I can handwave away by saying that the
>facility they are in have tuned grav plates to 1G.  But, of all these
>low tech worlds--especially the ones who have breathable atmospheres
>and, thus, aren't always inside a faciltiy, these people are getting
>pretty used to the gravity pull of the world.

Given a choice, i'd prefer to settle a lower g planet.. easier to get off
of it!  Probably, the original settlers saw the O2 atmosphere and all the
nice water and decided it was more than worth it.  Adapting to the lower g
would be simple.

Have you read kim Stanley Robinson's Mars triology?  A great deal of time
is spent going into the adaptations the Martian colonists go through,
especially when on of them visits Earth.

Your average Zilan is going to be tall and willowy.  Even the weight
lifters are going to have that look, since they don't fight as much gravity
when growing up.  They might have problems with weak bones, sinc ehte same
amount of calcium is being distributed along a larger skeleton.

The world's lifeforms will have similar adaptations.. impossibly high
trees, delicate structures.. all are possible.


- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 14:53:59 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1825

Harold writes

>Jory M. Earl writes:
>>I had an arguement with a non-sci-fi friend the other day, she was saying
>>that we should not increase any space programs because of the amount of
>>damage that rocket launches do to the ozone layer.
>>
>>I tried o tell her that any damage is minimal compared to other industries,
>>and the returns were worth it.... but I didn't come out as convincing enough!
>   The next time you see her, inform her that volcanoes have done more
>damage to the ozone layer in the past five years than all of the rocket
>experiments ever conducted *combined*.
>   Shall we try to plug up all the volcanoes?

Volcanoes don't directly damage the ozone layer - injection of chlorine into
the stratosphere by volcanic eruptions is pretty negligible (all the chlorine
in volcanoes gases is in water-soluable form...) Volcanoes do indirectly
enhance the breakdown of ozone by chloroflourocarbons, by (among other things)
providing small particles to act as sites for the CFC reactions to take
place. 

Harold is correct, though, that rocket exhausts are negligible compared to 
the damage caused by man-made CFCs; and even when CFC's are finally gone 
rocket exhausts are likely to remain negligible (rockets don't spend much
time in the stratosphere.) 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:20:37 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: 2300's Great Game

Ken Barnes wrote:

>Is it possible to get a copy of this simulation????
>(Assuming that it had reliable rules, and was not the result of some
>fudged free-form role-playing.)

Try

http://www.nicom.com/~artcraft/gg2.htm

which has downloadable copies... if you ever run it as an email game, I'd
be interested!

Dom

Working from both ends of a pile of Digests!

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:58:00 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: FFS2 Drop tanks was Re: Jump torpedoes

Hans, you wrote:

>Not so much late any TL, but late historically. Which would be completely in
>accord with canon (So far. I'm waiting for the day some M:0 author or ship
>designer decides to use a drop tank. That _will_ be a canon breaker (Did
>FF&S2 say anything about drop tanks, btw?)).

Only skimmed FFS2 at the moment, but the drop tanks are in, and there is no
mention of their late deployment in the Imperium. So it is potentially a
canon breaker.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:29:39 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: T IV - speculation

Michael Bailey wrote

>I must admist, the 'alternate timeline' proposed for T IV does make for
>some interesting spectulation, all other consequences aside...
>
<snipped TNS style comments>

>...speculation, to be sure, but fascinating nonetheless...


Superb,

and the rebellion does start because Dulinor pre-recorded the
announcement... and his daughter takes the fleet built up, knowing that it
is possibly her only chance of survival. Meanwhile, the *real* Strephon
returns from visting Longbow II and realises that the civil war needs to be
queashed to save his people. lucan is executed for attempted murder of his
brother. The Solomani mobilise in a campaign to liberate Terra (as the
Imperial fleet is fighting th rebellion).

Michael - both this and your Vilani quote were excellent IMNSHO.

Dom


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:02:46 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:X-boats and couriers

From: Hans Rancke-Madsen  wrote:

>Unfortunately, common sense invalidates that little trick anyway. A jump-6
>courier is expensive, but only compared to ordinary folks. A number of
>Imperial organisations and a number of private organisations (the 14
>Megacorporations for a start) can afford to maintain a few couriers out
>of petty cash. Even mere sectorwide companies and the local rulers of
>high-population planets can afford them. And getting fast and accurate
>information from the center of the Imperium is sufficiently valuable
>that almost all of them would have such couriers on standby. Thus while
>even Megacorporations may be content with relying on the X-boat Network
>for regional communication, any monumental news from Capital would go out
>to all these organisations by jump-6. Thus the news of Strephon's death
>would be recieved at about the same time by the Spinward Marches heads
>of the Army, Navy, Marines, Scouts, and Civil Service, the regional
>managers of all 14 Megacorporations, the General Manager of Al Morai and
>I don't know how many other sector-wide companies, Duchess Delphine, the
>Dukes of Glisten and Rhylanor, and propably several other dukes, in
>addition to Norris.

IIRC one of the MT publications state that Lucan suppressed the news
initially, stopping all launches from Capitol. Can't remember where I read
that though (Reebellion Sourcebook?)

So it is possible that only the military couriers and Imperiallines J6
ships got out with the news in the first week. Unlikely though.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:37:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Twilight 2000 Websites

Are there any T2K websites?  I have not seen any...
Thanx
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:42:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Patriot ABM?  NOT!

You are misinformed if you think a single Patriot hit a single SCUD.
L8R
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:20:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Gravitics and Fusion technology

Quoth Barry / Michael James:
> A lot of the handwaving I've seen on the subject of Traveller technology 
> comes from the 'gravitics' school. However, the maximum gravitic 
> compensation available, even at TL15, is a puny 6g! 

....which doesn't cause many problems if you don't expect gravity, which is
after all the very weakest of the four fundamental forces, to solve all
your problems.  "Gravitics" isn't magic -- it probably has very limited
utility beyond transportation (which is a big enough gain in itself!)

> Now this is OK if you're tearing around the universe in your 6g 
> thruster-plate equipped ship, but 6g won't do very much for a lot of 
> energy-manipulation purposes: for example, holding hydrogen plasma at 
> sufficient densities to fuse, or providing 'gravitic focussing' for laser 
> weapons! 

The energy costs or mass equivalencies of generating mega-gees for
gravitic focusing have led many of us to suggest the "travelling annular
confinement grav pulse" theory, which requires some suspension of belief,
but less to me than focusing at the source.  And gravity is a _foolish_
force to use for fusion reactors: electromagnetism is far, far stronger,
and thus probably more practical.

> I suggest that Traveller technologies are able to generate much higher 
> grav fields, but only for periods of milli- or micro-seconds. This means 
> that you can't have a 2000g gravity-compensated fighter craft, but you 
> can muster several thousands of Gs for a specific purpose, like focussing 
> a laser pulse or pinching a plasma into fusion. 

But gravitic control of this magnitude would be expected to have
_significant_ effects for other technology, weapons, etc., which we don't
see in Traveller "canon" as it is currently constituted.  So I think it's
a bad idea to "hang" too many ideas and technologies off of pure gravitics.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:42:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: T2K

eris@pen.net

> I think you did too.

Thanks...I don't hear that too often these days.

> What Tw2K is doing on the TML, I don't know, but I enjoyed (still enjoy)
> the game..both versions. ;->  

Beats me. But no one seems to be objecting _too_ loudly. There _is_ a T2K
mailing list, albeit not as active as this one. Perhaps those interested
should take up the discussion there.

> I didn't *like* the setting...you weren't supposed to *like* being stuck in
> WWIII and it's aftermath...

No kidding. It was supposed to be bleak. You are thousands of miles from
home, no one speaks English, and everything's broken. I don't know about you,
but I _like_ hot water and indoor toilets. 

> and I didn't think some of the events in the continential US were too likely, 

Maybe not. But what would you have said had we said that within 10 years of
the game's publication, the USSR would be no more, the Berlin Wall would be
gone, and a MacDonalds would open in Moscow (Oh...and Poland will petition to
join NATO...).

> but the games that came out of Tw2K were some of the best non-Traveller
games I've > ever been in.
>

<material deleted >

>
> Yep, Tw2K was good.

Again, thanks...

Loren Wiseman
     GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:26:14 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

At 06:44 PM 9/14/97 +0000, James Lindsay wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:31:06 -0700, Jory M. Earl wrote:
>
>> Actually, there doesn't need to be any connection with Jump-space and
>> normal space.  Jump Drives (unless I'm mistaken) create a temporary
>> portal into the realm of hyperspace (5th dimension).
>
>This is contradictory.  In order to "open a hole into jump space" and
>then physically pass through that "hole", jump space and normal space
>*must* be connected at some point (just as 2D space and 3D space are
>linked together).  In addition, a ship travelling in jump space must
>use normal space physics to separate itself from jump space, since a
>jump drive is a physical device built using normal space physics.
>
><snip>
>
>Interesting twist :)  Unfortunately, Traveller canon still lets you
>attempt to jump inside 100 diameters-- sometimes *well* within that
>limit.
>
>James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
>  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
>
><snip>
>

Which is why I treat "Jump" as an "effect", not a space. As I noted
previously, the Jump drive creates an artifical gravitational signiture that
causes the ship to displace in space time. 

Intensity changes the distance displaced.

Other, intense gravitational signitures may interfere with the effect, but
nothing less than a stellar mass should have a chance. A planet will not
induce the effect to end early; a star might. Two equally valid mechanisms
when jump is treated as an effect is 1) Stars can not be jumped 'thru' or 2)
any star of less than a neutron star's mass or a Black Hole will not effect
a jump. Using the first mechanism means that a jump-1 main is traversable
only at jump-1 unless it has folds across which to cut. It creates many new
choke points, slows travel and communications. More places for conflict; you
can't always bypass the problem.  Mechanism 2 opens the travel speed;
enables bypassing of trouble spots, but does enable the referee to throw in
a glitch by dropping in a black hole or neutron star where the story needs.

Which you elect to use will depend on what your background story is like.

Garry

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1832
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 16 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1833



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc. 
The Value of a Skill Level
Re: Gravity Advice
Imperial Military (was Re: dan lane)
Re: Aslan
Re: dan lane
Re: Bad guys from the Core?
Re: American Jingoism
Re:Ben Barton
[none]
Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:05:53 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc. 

At 08:09 AM 9/15/97 +0000, Barry / Micheal wrote:
>I have discovered a cache of old Dragon and similar magazines, dating 
>waaaaay back. Rather than dig through endless turgid cr*p detailing the 
>sexual habits of purple ringed dragon-ferrets, I'd like some kind soul to 
>tell me what issues contained Traveller-related material that is worth 
>salvaging from the grasps of D&D munchkins. 
>
><snip>
>=========================================================
>m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au ------ preferred address
>mbarry@pcug.org.au              ------ alternative address
>
>

Imperium articles, Dragon vol III #6
Special Traveller section, Dragon #35
Imperium research, Dragon #39
Canard (adventure), Dragon #43

Based on the first magazine holder on the Dragon shelf. There are some
others after that, and probably some before #35, but my collection is rather
spotty prior to that.

Some of the articles I have run across in the Dragon were even by Marc Miller.

Garry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:12:06 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: The Value of a Skill Level

This is a post I wrote and sent to my players.  Some of you TML people
may find use in it too--both KBv2.0 users and non-KBv2.0 users.

It gets your thinking in the right place when you look at your character
and you see a measely level-4 skill staring back at you.  Sometimes we
get disgruntled and think that our character is not that good, when,
really, level-4 is bad ass.

Enjoy the read.

Kenneth.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

(the following was copied from personal e-mail)

This is one of those quickie posts that will teach you something new
about the game.  Our topic is skill levels.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's the difference between a character with skill-1 and a character
with skill-2?  Why is a skill-5 so bad-ass anyway--it's only a couple of
points above a level three.



When we think about skill levels, I'm not sure we realize just what one
little level will do for you.

As you move up the ladder of expertise, one level is an exponential
increase in effectiveness.  Success chances are multiplied for every
level change you make.

Let's look at one character.  We'll examine how well he will perform
over the range of skill levels.

Our boy has a Stat of 7, which is average for a human.

If he has no skill, he can attempt a default skill using just his stat. 
Here's what his success chance will be over the range of difficulty
codes.

When you are looking at the analysis below, think of the skills your
character has.  This will put you in the right frame of mind as you
figure how much experience he has in a given area.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANALYSIS SECTION:  SKILL LEVELS



1.  Stat-7    Skill-0

Easy      Average     Difficult     Formidable    Staggering   
Impossible
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
58%        16%         3%             0.3%            0.02%        
..003%


Analysis:
OK.  An averge guy starts out with a 60% chance on Easy tasks, and it
goes down hill real fast from there.  That just goes to show you.  You
need some experience in an area before you attempt to do anything more
than the easiest tasks.

Skill level 0, or default skills, is no real expertise in an area.  You
are relying on the little bits an pieces of info and experiences you've
obtained over the years.  Normally, this doesn't add up to more than

Let's move on to skill-1 and see the jumps that are made.



2.  Stat-7    Skill-1

Easy      Average     Difficult     Formidable    Staggering   
Impossible
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
92%        50%         16%             3%            .5%         .04%


Analysis:
Whao!  Look at that.  You get a skill in an area, and look at how your
chances just jump up on the low end.  You've almost got a 100% chance
with Easy tasks.  Average endeavors jump up from a measley 16% to a
50-50 proposition.  And, for the first time, you have a little bit of a
shot at Difficult tasks. Anything above Difficult, though, you still
don't have a hope in hell of getting.

Skill level one means your character has received some basic training in
the area.  He knows enough to do Easy tasks and is fairly competent with
Average ones.  He can even try Difficult tasks, but he fails a lot with
this.  Formidable and above tasks are usually out of the question. 



3.  Stat-7    Skill-2

Easy      Average     Difficult     Formidable    Staggering   
Impossible
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
100%        84%         44%             15%            4%         1%


Analysis:
Well, look at that.  For the first time, our character has a chance,
however slim, across the board.  Easy tasks are bumbed to 100%.  Since
there is no Spectacular Failure possible with Easy tasks, Level-2 makes
them automatic.  We are also damn good with Average tasks--there's only
a 16% chance of failure there.  Difficult tasks come up as a viable
alternative with almost a 50-50 shot.  And, we still have some chance at
Formidable, Staggering, and even Impossible tasks.

Skill level two is intermediate training.  A Medical-2 skill would mean
training as a nurse or a paramedic.  Administration-2 means that you
have graduated from being a junior clerk (level-1) to a competent, fully
trained clerk.  Pistol-2 means that you've done more than just taken a
class on beginning firearms--you've actually gone to the range,
practiced, and how you are getting competent with the weapon.



4.  Stat-7    Skill-3

Easy      Average     Difficult     Formidable    Staggering   
Impossible
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
100%        98%         76%             40%            14%         4%


Analysis:
Level three means that you have reached the professionl level of
compentency in this specific area.  Doctors get their MD's at level 3. 
Business professionals will have a level three in their area of
specialization--Administration-3, Liason-3, Broker-3, Trader-3.

Easy tasks are no problem and neither are Average tasks.  You've got a 3
in 4 chance of completing Difficult tasks, and Formidable tasks have
jumped from 15% to 40%.  For the first time, there is a real chance at
rolling a Staggering task, although the success rate is small, and
Impossible rolls are even possible--however unlikely.



5.  Stat-7    Skill-4

Easy      Average     Difficult     Formidable    Staggering   
Impossible
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
100%        100%         95%             70%            36%         14%


Analysis:
Level four is a major break through.  This guy is truly talented in the
area, and this is where the guy has a real shot at the harder tasks. 
Easy and Average rolls are automatic.  Difficult throws are just about
automatic-a 5% chance of failure.  Formidable rolls,even, have a great
chance of success at 70%.

Heck, even Staggering tasks have a 1 in 3 shot,and for the first time,
Impossible success has a decent shot of making it.

Skill-4 skills are the realm of the truly gifted.  This would be the
person who's studied the subject in depth and practiced hard.  He's good
at what he does, and most people can't match him.  The professional who
has been specializing in a certain area for a long time can be
considered a level 4.

People who are considered experts in their fields are characters with
level-4 skills.



6.  Stat-7    Skill-5

Easy      Average     Difficult     Formidable    Staggering   
Impossible
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
100%        100%         100%             90%        64%           33%


Analysis:
The truly gifted have level-5 skills.  Easy, Average, and Difficult
tasks are no problem at all.  Formidable tasks, even, will succeed 90%
of the time.  Staggering is at 64%, and Impossible throws are at a
whopping 1 in 3 chance of success.

Characters with level-5 skills are the people that the experts turn to
for advice.  These are the people that are at the pinnacle of their
careers.  If you go up against a person with a level-5 skill, you'd
better watch out, because he'll probably eat you for lunch.



7.  Stat-7    Skill-6

Easy      Average     Difficult     Formidable    Staggering   
Impossible
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
100%        100%         100%          98%            86%           59%


Analysis:
People with level-6 skills are very rare individuals.  They are the best
of the best, the cream of the crop.  They are the people that the rest
of us look at in awe.

Just about any skill attempt is not a problem for them.  Easy, Average,
Difficult, and Formidable tasks are just about automatic.  Staggering
tasks are almost 90%.  Even Impossible tasks are 6 in 10.

These guys are the best--the people we aspire to be but probably never
will.  They are the rare individuals who really make it, and their
proficiency in their specialty aread humbles all around who look at
them.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:28:48 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> Given a choice, i'd prefer to settle a lower g planet.. easier to get off
> of it!  Probably, the original settlers saw the O2 atmosphere and all the
> nice water and decided it was more than worth it.  Adapting to the lower g
> would be simple.

I was thinking...what if when they settled it, they put grav plates into
all the buildings?  That way, when you are at work or home, you can be
in a 1G field (or something stronger than .272 G).  Then, when you are
outside, you can jump around in the .272 gravity.

I could see something like this happening.  When the colonists settled
the planet, they didn't want to have all of the problems that are
associated with living in a low-G environment.  Looking ahead, they did
what they could to hedge the problem.

This way, a Zilan spends most of his life, or a big portion of it, in
the standard 1 G field.  Going off planet is not a problem, or as much
of a problem, as it could be.

Zila's TL is TL 7, so I'll have to jiggle the tech in this specific area
a little bit, but the first settlers did come to the planet in the first
place.  They had the tech then.  Maybe they kept up grav-field
technology out of everyday necessity.

I can see the brouchures now.  "Come to beautiful Zila--where you can
get a good night's sleep in our veritble garden of eden, jump around in
our natural low-G parks, and avoid all of the health risks associated
with long term exposure to other low-G planets."

> Have you read kim Stanley Robinson's Mars triology?

I started it, but I couldn't get into it.  I'll probably try it again
somewhere down the road.

  A great deal of time
> is spent going into the adaptations the Martian colonists go through,
> especially when on of them visits Earth.

Hmmm.  Maybe I'll read it sooner rather than later.

> Your average Zilan is going to be tall and willowy.  Even the weight
> lifters are going to have that look, since they don't fight as much gravity
> when growing up.  They might have problems with weak bones, sinc ehte same
> amount of calcium is being distributed along a larger skeleton.
> 
> The world's lifeforms will have similar adaptations.. impossibly high
> trees, delicate structures.. all are possible.

Cool.  That gives me wonderful ideas for this definitely alien world.

I try to avoid every place the PC's go,it is just a high tech (or even
low tech) version of earth.  Spending time like this on the details of a
world usually makes it all worth it when everyone is leaving, talking
about how vivid I made the game that night.

I read a story once, in one of the mags, of how people at GDW used to
get flak about impossible worlds being the way the random dice had
generated them.  The author of the story, I forget who, but I think it
was a GDW regular, told about how much fun they used to have at GDW's
main office, talking about different worlds.

Instead of bitching that something did not seem realistic, they let
their imaginations go and tried to discover what circumstances led to
the planet being the way it is.

I think this is facinating and quite fun.  Zila has been a project, and
now it is going to be an adventure.

It's going to be fun.  I can't wait until they get there.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Imperial Military (was Re: dan lane)

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> Struggling mightily to bring this back to Traveller, how much would
> planetary identity eefect the ability of the Imperial forces to operate..
> We've seen here that even between alleged allies, feelings can run hot.
> --

I've struggled with this aspect of the game for a while, so I would like
some input.  I've a couple of theories...

  Each planet is responsible for contributing towards Sector (Imperial)
and SubSector (Colonial) units.  Imperial personell are primarily drawn
from the hi-tech worlds in a subsector (easier and cheaper to train them
to the appropriate levels), while experienced non-comms and officers from
the Colonial units may transfer up.

  - or -

  Each planet contributes to the construction, maintenance and manning of
military units in keeping with it's economic potential.  These units, once
manned, are 'Imperialized', and will serve a set term at the discretion of
the Sector Military structure (made up of Imperial Nobles).  Once the term
of service is complete, the unit is returned to the individual worlds for
such maintenance and recruiting of personnel as required before it's next
period of service.  

With the first method, personnel would be scattered, which would prevent
the possibility interworld politics spilling over into the Imperial
Military at more than a personal level.  (Imagine this "From the TNS - the
crew of the Dreadnaught ISS Tigress mutinied today in response to economic
sanctions on their world by...)  However, it does present the problem of
getting these millions of individuals back to their homes of record - no
small cost that!

With the second method, units are tied more directly to their homeworlds -
with the attendant problems, but personnel costs are also shifted back to
the homeworlds. 

Comments?  Solutions?

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:52:31 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Aslan

Richard Hough writes in response to to me:

>>I have to say I dislike this idea -- I much preferred the description of
>>Aslan society being fundamentally patriarchal and paternalistic, with the
>>female-run "corporations" borrowing the model of the patriarchal clan and
>>using bonds of fictive kinship to link their personnel.
>
>I like this idea. It gives some variety to the Aslan and makes them not so
>steriotypical.
>
>>From a dramatic perspective you have to throw a curveball to your players
>once in a while, and a more female-oriented clan could do this. From a
>realism standpoint I find it hard to believe the Alsan are so conformist
>that they have never had any female-dominated clans. "Fundamentally
>patriarchical" does not mean exclusively patriarchical. Consider all the
>weird government types and social communities that have existed on Earth. I
>can't believe that the billions of Aslan are all in utterly conventional
>social groups.

There's a difference between the referee being tipped to the occurance of
clans where females control the clan politics (because a certain patriarch
is a ninny and his wives happen to lack a natural feminine interest in
finance and machinery, for example), and having an such female-dominated
clans be overtly institutionalized in society, which is what it sounded
like Marc was proposing.

The trick with Aslan politics and society is that, IIUC, it's wholly based
on kinship ties (whether "real" or fictive) -- whereas most of those "weird
government types and social communities" among you^h^h^h us humans are
based on more abstracted ideological differences.  Access to power is
contestable in any sort of setup, but access to the sources of legitimacy
in a kinship-based political system is much more restricted.  If you make
exceptions like this to the patrilineal, patriarchal system of clan and
inter-clan governance, it's going to have a massive ripple-down effect to
the level of kinship and, er, "family values".

The way I see it is, female-dominated clans should be about as common as
Imperial megacorporations whose stated mission is to minimize their stock
value and assets while permanently alienating their customer base through
false advertising and random chemical/biological warfare, and to embezzle
multiple teracredits from the Emperor's Privy Purse to give away to their
competitors. (So yeah, they exist <G>)

Why would normal clans deal with the glaring liability of a clan run by
females -- who as everyone knows, simply don't have the mental capacity to
handle big important geopolitical topics and diplomacy and whatnot?  What
male clanmember would be willing to negotiate with a female of another
clan, as a peer?  Who would be willing to be vassal of such an ill-fated
bunch of freaks?  Who would tolerate this sort of disorder in his clients?
What pussy-whippped male could show his face in front of Aslan of other
clans, where men are men and women go off and do... well, whatever it is
they do, the way they're supposed to?  What would old rival clans and new
competition do?  After all, eveyrone also knows that females can't figure
out military stuff to save their pretty little heads, right?  Bang!

One way to look at the Aslan clan is as a machine for producing
geneological continuity; at the same time, it's a machine for taking that
strictly ranked, consanguinous geneological fabric and stretching it,
through affinal relationships and bonds of fictive kinship, to connect
different clans and create "society" in the strict sense.

The "female-dominant clan" [hmm, a kink-positive new supplement for White
Wolf Games, perhaps?] is maybe the Aslan "corporation", which IIRC can be
semi-independent of their clans-of-CEO-origin, or in some cases truly
clan-independent.  This I see as being a like the much-touted transnational
megacorporation, but more so -- the chief difference, besides the fur,
being that the separation is based on a reified male/female dichotomy
within a kinship network, rather than a public/private enterprise dichotomy
in an international system.

>If I could make one suggestion for new material on the Alsan, it would be
>to play up their individualism and the mercantile aspects of their society.
>This would add depth to Aslan society and make them seem less like
>"Klingons in fur".

As folks on the TravLang list migh attest, I'm an avowed Klingon-basher
myself... I think the biggest step towards deKlingonizing the Aslan would
be to get rid of the dueling folderol.. which isn't likely to happen, and I
can see why <G>.  The next best thing might be to emphaize the ritual
nature of elite male Aslan warriordom:  intensely long-winded and boastful,
fussy about ornamental trifles, neurotic over points of precedence and rank
privilege, and totally ineffectual as a military force in human terms.
"Yes, I know it's low tide now, but we promised the enemy we'd stage a
landing today, and we had to wait for them to finish setting up their gun
emplacements... it wouldn't be a fair match otherwise, would it?" Etc.

Please excuse my incoherency... accountancy by day, pop sociology by night
doesn't mix so well.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:08:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: dan lane

You wrote: 
>
>"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> writes:
>>>Remember that the last war America fought on it's own, we lost.  
>>WHAT? I mean that. WHAT? This is a gross insult to the very brave 
South
>>Koreans, Thais, and Australians that joined America in the Vietnam 
war. 
>
>Not to mention Canadians.

Canadians?  Last time I checked, Canada's main contribution was to 
serve as the hidey hole of every leftwinger nutcase who stepped beyond 
even the loosely enforced laws. . . 

And I'd mention ARVN in the list of allies, notwithstanding popular 
wisdom about their expertise or lack thereof. And of course the 
Montagnards deserve their own mention.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:02:12 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Bad guys from the Core?

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

>>       However, the Solomani took one look at the Spofulams and decided
>>that they were a massive menace to Solomani species purity, morality, and
>>society, not to mention civilization as a whole, so the Spofulams built a
>>fleet of huge asteroid-hulled colony ships, moved the family, the
>>corporate assets and their shipyard and industrial tooling on board, and
>>headed for the Galactic core...

Alas!  Woe!  I was starting to hope that, as the Imperium expanded, Famille
Spofulam might set up a subsidiary among the Sayat to produce hm, how to
describe it, adult military novelties?  I can see the advertising slogans
now:  "We Put the Packing Back in Packing!"

>>       ...thereby laying the groundwork for a new Trav Supplement: Milieu
>>S: The Spofulam Era (subtitled "They're baaaack!").
>
>        And I note that Spofulam and Sparklers both have the same first two
>letters.  Does anyone smell the Templars?

I <heart> Hengabar.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:14:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: American Jingoism

You wrote: 
>
>How good the French technology is would be interesting - I mean, the UK
>developed its systems from US power and weapon systems., but the French
>went it alone.

As far as their ground combat capability goes, I'm not impressed.  I 
don't know much about their navy.  And their Air Force, well, Mirages 
have the reputation as being the aircraft to buy if your politics 
aren't in line with the US sufficiently to be able to wrange F-16s.  
But their ground forces are more designed with neo-colonial 
interventions against lightly armed primitives in mind than with a good 
solid stand-up fight.  I mean look at the AMX-30!  I mean, yeah, the 
LeClerc is a solid tank, but it's ten years too late.  By the time they 
get that into every line unit, the US will have everyone up M1A2 
standard.  And their best troops don't drive tanks, anyway.  They drive 
armored cars.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:15:32 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:Ben Barton

Any one but the french !

jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:15:32 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: [none]

From: lugh1
To: jlockett@io.com
Subject: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett
X-Status: New

Oh, waah.  You're just a sore loser and a woefully limited
brainwashedpatriot with a complete unwillingness or inability to
appreciate differentviews in speculative fiction.  Italy's in pretty bad
shape right now, interms of both prestige and capability: whither the
Roman Empire? didn't they get nuked and invaded by mexico ?And a bad
typist and a lousy debater at that.  With no sense of socialgraces.  I
particularly appreciated the message in which you bashed MTand TNE in
practically the same breath.  Negative, negative.  So just whatis it that
you like, anyway, whiner?actually I have defended the TNE background just
not the system which I personally did not like . I like CT and T4 , also
what I like is whining and to talk about being a lousy debater , look at
your self hypocrit . have you defende you point of view or are you
content to insult me .blow a czarnianchip 
- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga
user,http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean
scholar,  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and
director.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:48:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad

You wrote: 

>If I remember my history, at the start of WWII America army was extremely
>small
>and were training with wooden rifles.   Red Dawn ...I hate to rain on 

Depends on when you are talking about.  In 1939, no.  Was small.  In 
1940, we see massive expansion, but the weapons don't keep up 
initially.  By 1941, weapons were catching up and wooden dummies aren't 
needed anymore.

your
>parade, but
>after at least 4 year of full blown war I don't think there will be that
>many young men or woman around that haven't been recruited or know how to
>handle firearms to form an effective fighting group.  As for lower 

You don't need that much skill to hit someone with an automatic weapon. 
 Partisan units have formed frequently among populations which have no 
prior training of a military nature.  Parisian citizens form Maquis, 
Ukranian peasants form entire partisan divisions, etc.  And any 
survivors from the local National Guard unit provide a cadre of trained 
leadership.

skills
>of the 3rd world countries they make up for it with sheer numbers of
>personal just like Vietnam and as for the like of LA street gangs with the
>Hispanics. Let us remember Los Almos.  On a tour map I have it points out
>that the Hispanics population in 1980 for LA was over 2 million and the
>whole population of Southern California was only 13.6 Million 

What, so Hispanics wouldn't fight for the US?  My (Hispanic from Los 
Angeles) bunkmate in Basic Training would likely disagree.  Violently.  
 
>belief that it takes ICBM somewhere between 5-14 mins from the USSR to USA.

Half an hour from launch to impact in Midwest.  Less to hit targets near Canadian border.

>Military reserves read big targets. Let see M1 MBT range 280mph, top speed 45mp,
>number deployed in USA some 3000(7058 had been produced by 1988) and this
>is only the M1 not the later versons or one stationed else were in the

Hmm. . . Ten divisions, four are light, rest have five batallions of 
tanks, five times 6 is 30, 30x58 is not quite 1800.  Plus a handful of 
National Guard units are using them now. . .  I don't think your 
numbers are right.  I know your top speed is off.

>your Stealth fighter Pointless( As for details about this I don't think is
>a secret, it is currently been tried in the US.)

Yeah.  Right.  Sure.  Where did you pick this one up, Popular 
Psuedoscience?

>The fact that USSR has build some 1178 ICBMs since 1978 compared with none
>by America. and some 2000 replacement rounds is assessed as being far 

How many more do we need?  What, you want the rubble to bounce into 
orbit?  I don't have a real problem[1] with a game background involving 
nuclear war, but let's not get carried away.

John M. Atkinson
[1]Aside from the fact that I don't completely believe the underlying 
premise that a nuclear war would be stopped short of a catastrophic 
full exchange, nor do I buy _not_ nuking the hell out conventional 
formations in Europe in event of the crossing of the nuclear threshold. 
 But if you want to debate nuclear warfighting, take it to e-mail.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:54:48 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: "Valerian J. Vortex" <s321874@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832

To all those who have raised concerns about the issues in Jerry
Pournelle's "A Step Further Out", you might be interested in:

http://www.abcnews.com:80/sections/scitech/astrogold0909/index.html

My personal opinion is that "A step further out" is a little overdramatic
in its doomsaying, and failed to predict (and take into account) the trend
that energy consumption per capita is decreasing across the first world.

Also, people discussing the T2K scenario of post-nuke America might like
to read "Warday" by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka.  An interesting
documentary style report of the state of the union 10 (?) years after a
_very_ limited war between the US and the USSR.  IIRC, Washington/NY, the
Dakotas and an AirForce base near San Antonio (?) were the only targets.
Japs and Brits run the world...

Ken Barns,
ex-Medical Student and Connoisseur of Life.

=============================================================

       "Life's tough...  SO WHAT??" - Angry Anderson
   
=============================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:54:35 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

I have briefly scanned the responses on this thread since my post, and I only
have a few comments.

  1) It was suggested that the referee _may_ be right, which was not the
     point of Stempel Architecture, but it is the whole reason.  Without
     even having/being able to argue computer scientists, Stempel guarantees
     the referee from being wrong.

  2) You can load all the fractal-based "phage" programs up on any UNIX box
     I have 'su' on, and I guarantee that I'll find a way of stopping it from
     doing what the referee mentioned, wanted to prevent.  Of course, I am
     _known_ for getting 'su' on boxes I can't even log on to. :)

  3) Copy "protection" is a bogus thing of the past.  It is too effective,
     and since it is generally a free market, those without site licensing
     schemes lose out to companies that have better, less hassled systems
     for keeping managers out of the piracy zone.  Those same managers and
     companies cause us system admins a lot of problems through these 
     techniques, and I guarantee you that _we_ find ways around them.

  4) Personally, I think it _is_ better to discuss this in the realm of
     vagueries for Traveller simply because it is all still evolving so
     fast, and then there is also that little problem of Einstein, but
     then again, our jump drives do get him too. :)

BTW, I have _not_ implemented Stempel in my campaign, but it will probably
show up as an alien, and therefore superior architecture.


Leroy Guatney - lwlg@usa.net
 University of Mars, NorthAm Campus
 Class of '98

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1833
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 16 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1834



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Players hate that!
Re: Fusion
Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth
Re: Commentary
Re: Fusion
Re: Fusion
Re: More on T2000 and T2300ad
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Jump in Traveller
MT missing tables?
re: American Jingoism
RE: Ship Missions
Re: 
a teeny correction +/- 0.02cr 
Re: Gravity Advice

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:05:17 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Players hate that!

Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) types:
>As I recall, the fees *start* at something like $1000-5000 for a simple
>machinegun and go up rapidly. And the regulations are rather
>cunbersome. Just the thing to bug players with. :-)
>(And if they complain that your regs are "unrealistic", you can show
>them a copy of the *real* laws here :-)

  Trust me, players just *hate* that!  :-)


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
There's a lot of stupidity out there. Many gun control laws seem really 
pointless. I can't have a handgun in the city, but I can have an elephant 
rifle. Guns with bayonet mounts are outlawed---as if there has been a rash 
of bayonettings! Then, when the bayonet lugs are removed, people get 
outraged when they see that it's really the same gun. You'd think they'd 
realize this proves the original law was stupid! A lot of people who 
scream for more gun control have no idea what the existing laws are like. 
           http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:29:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Fusion

In mail you write:

> At 11:08 PM 9/13/97 PST, Leonard wrote:
>
>>And it would appear that 6 g is the most that can be generated...
>
> I'd argue that 6g is the most that can be *compensated* due to the needs to
> adjust the ship's fields to provide a constant, livable enviroment.  I've
> designed a few missiles with 30g Thruster plates...

Thruster plates are most definitely *not* "artificial gravity". If they
were, you wouldn't *need* compensation, as gravity works on every
particle equally. You'd seem to be in free fall, same as falling into a
*real* gravity field.

So we are stuck with compensators and the ship's gravity as the only
artificial gravity type generators.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:39:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth

In mail you write:

> Actually, if the leagility part does not bother you making a pirate radio or
> TV station only costs about $100 for the transmitter and whatever bits you
> want.  A bit more for the more expensive (more watts) ones.  But it's no big
> deal to make your own out of Radio Shack parts and a visit to Fry's.  Plus if
> you have some steel cohones you can transmit OVER the broadcast signals (at
> least over a limited area).  This is known as "signaljacking" and
> is....FROWNED upon....to say the least.  But you can drown out those lame
> weathermen with your own "special reports" heheheh.

You forgot to include the $10,000 fine when they catch you. 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:16:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Commentary

In mail you write:

>    What difference would it make if a Patriot hit a SCUD? SCUDs are ballistic
> -- once you've launched one, it's got to come down somewhere. If the
> Patriot hit one, it would just deflect it to a new landing point; and since
> the SCUDs were magnificently inaccurate, the chances are that deflecting
> the damn thing could be more dangerous than leaving it alone.

There *is* a difference between having a relatively intact SCUD (at
high terminal velocity) hit, and a bunch of *pieces* of one (at low
terminal velocity). And any sort of impact between a Patriot and a SCUD
*will* result in pieces. In fact, they discovered that a lot of the
SCUDs were so inaccurate because they fell apart on their own. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:42:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Fusion

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 97-09-14 13:18:20 EDT, you write:
>
> << I figure MHD would be best for running hot plasma thru. You'd also run
>  some sort of coolant thru the reactor walls to carry off the heat f
>  
>  I remember a time when no one knew what a Magneto Hydro-dynamic
>  generator was.  Do you realize russia as been running 2 or 3 for years
>  now?  The US is starting their very first one in the northwest in
>  Washington, soon.  (as far as I know it's the only one on US soil).
>   >>
> Isreal has had one up for longer than that.  Main problem with MHD is its
> BIG.

Huh? MHD tends to be *smaller* than generators with equivalent power
output. It consists of what amounts to a jet nozzle, an electrode on
either side of the plasma flow, and a magnetic field at right angles to
the flow. 

> And you can use a low melting point metal in the reactor so the heat
> problems are not as intense. I believe Isreal used mercury or somesuch on
> their experimental reactor.

I think that you are confusing MHD generators with JxB *pumps*. The
pumps are frequently used in reactors that use a liquid metal for
coolant, because they allow a sealed coolant loop. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:34:35 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Fusion

In mail you write:

>> Well, as with most power plants, you'll likely have several stages. the
>> "topping" cycle works with the highest temp "working fluid" and thus
>> has the highest efficiency. Then you can have one or more secondary
>> extraction cycles that work off the "low" temperature exhaust of the
>> topping cycle.
>> 
>> I figure MHD would be best for running hot plasma thru. You'd also run
>> some sort of coolant thru the reactor walls to carry off the heat from
>> absorbed gamma rays and the like. That could go thru a conventional
>> steam turbine type cycle.
>> 
>> And the "low end" cycle could be heating the LH2 and running a turbine
>> off the resulting hydrogen gas.
>
> These sort of dohickies are usually pretty complex.  Examples include
> the ex-Kirov's Nuclear & Boiler superheat plant and the ICR gas turbine.
> The SAGT (Steam augmented gas turbine) is another complex plant.  All
> have higher effciencies but at questionable price efficiency and
> engineerability.

Heck, just about *all* modern power plants have multiple cycles
involved. 

> I think you could also argue that a mere 6G's isn't enough to form
> superdense matter, so higher grav focusiong capabilities must be
> available from its TL onward.

Ok, that I'll grant you.

> Grav focusing may generate local fields that drop off precipitously.

This is not so easy. The inverse-square law is a consequence of
*geometry*. You can get a field that drops off more *slowly* by
limiting the radiation to part of a sphere. But you can't have it cover
*more* than a sphere. So inverse square drop-off is the *limit*, you
can't get it to drop off faster.

ps. I finally found the formula for the gravity field of a flat plate,
so when I get a chance, I can work up what sort of effects could be
expected around a ship.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:50:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: More on T2000 and T2300ad

In mail you write:

>       In time of nuclear threat the major pop. centers would be on
>alert and possibly evacuated.

I suggest you have a talk with your local civil defense co-ordinator.
Most large cities in the US *cannot* be evacuated. There's not enough
transport capacity, there's no place to house the people outside the
city, and the infrastructure for keeping them fed isn't there.

>also most of the arms producing factories have enough supplies in stock
>pile for years of total war.

Sorry, but they have no more supplies than they expect to use before
the next shipment gets there. And the shipments are *frequent*. Why?
Because they have to pay *taxes* on "inventory". Also, it costs money
to store stuff. Thus the "just in time" delivery method arose.

>this goes doubly for fuel , and in addition 98% of the fuel pumped in
>alaska goes to the military reserves.

Where did you get *that* figure? There are published reports showing
that the "strategic oil reserves" aren't big enough to be of much help.
And since they are reserves of *crude* oil, you need refineries to turn
them into fuel. Likewise you need transport to get the crude to the
refineries, and the refined fuel to where it is needed.

In short, in all three of your above objections, you show a complete
ignorance of the realities of logistics.

>also we [ the U.S ] have a few different
>methods of protecting itself from ICBM attacks . such as the satellites
>that launch metal rods into space to intercept the ICBM in space and
>destroy it . also I remember reading about satellites that bombard
>incoming ICBMs with micro wave which fry the circuitry and disable the
>weapon .  third is the anti missile missile .

You must be talking about a different US. We have *one* anti-missile
installation. That's all the ABM treaty allows us. It's in North
Dakota, protecting some ICBM silos. The Russian one is protecting
Moscow. 

There has been a lot of talk about spaceborne anti-missile systems. We
have *none* that are anything beyond designs on paper. We've done
*research*, but even that was over protests by the Soviets that we were
violating the treaty. 

We do have a few *anti-satellite* weapons. But those require more lead
time than a missile attack would give, and they require orbital data
that we wouldn't be able to get before the warhead impacted.

ps. I'm all *too* familiar with the civil defense issues. Back in the
70s and 80s I and some of my friends were trying to figure out just
what we could do to save our asses if there was a war. You see, I live
in a major target area. Deep water port, shipyards, major rail
terminal, major airport (including an Air National Guard base), and
surrounded by hi-tech industries that an enemy would rather not have
working. 

The only way to get out is to leave well before the *rest* of the
population decides to, or to have something that isn't stopped by
traffic jams and roadblocks. And you have to have someplace to go *to*.
Someplace that can provide food and shelter *without* outside help, and
for a *long* time. And it'd better have a fallout shelter...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:45:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 97-09-14 12:52:09 EDT, you write:
>
> << Actually, I can see situations where the ref is *right*, but for the
>  wrong reasons. It's possible, and even *likely*, that a lot of what we
>  consider "software" will be closer to the ROM-paks used in games. Sure,
>  you can copy it. But it isn't worth the trouble.<<
>  
>  Uhhh, yeah right.  You checked out the web for game roms lately?  If it's a
> choice between paying .05$ or getting it for free the a big minority will go
> for the free version.

Try finding non-ROM games for the dedicated game systems. :-)

> <<Or they may have solved the piracy problem by having all computers have
>  a "hardware serial number" (more like a PGP signature). In which case,
>  your software won't *run* on another system without the manufacturer
>  "re-keying" it to the new system.<<

> Hmm, sounds a like the "dongle" method of software protection.  This
> supposedly "unbreakable" system did not last an full week after it's
> debut....there is NO such thing as foolproof protection.  Especially with
> dedicated groups of people dedicated to breaking such protection.

Funny, dongles are *still* in use for expensive, limited run software. 

  
>  <<Take a combination of the two and you have the computers from S.M.
>  Stirling's "Draka" timeline. Where keeping the system from being
>  compromised is the single most important design criterion.<<

> But even with that setting being a security managers Nirvana the ENTIRE Draka
> computer network was compromised.  Of course in that case it was at the
> source.  Just goes to show you...

Sure, it's impossible to be 100% secure. But my point was that unless
the players have unreal computer skills, they aren't going to have a
lot of luck.

>  >>Finally, there are computer OSes that already exist where you the OS
>  won't *let* you backup up software flagged as "no copies allowed". And
>  they have access restrictions on files as well. Unlike MS-DOS, these 
>  are built in at the OS level. Combine such an OS with protected mode
>  hardware, and the only way to "crack" things is with custom equipment
>  built *specifically* for the purpose of violating security. <<

> Uhhh, examples please?  I've never heard of this. 

The much maligned TRS-DOS. 7 levels of protection for files, with two
seperate passwords with different access levels possible (that's two
passwords per file!). And you could set the number of backup copies of
a file possible. Anytime you copied a disk with backup limited files,
the copies would have the limit set to 0 (ie, no copies), and the disk
you copied from would have the counter decremented. 

> And if they could why would Microsoft not build it into THEIR OS??? 

<loud laughter>. Easy. TRS-DOS started out as an OS for *business* use,
with home use a secondary consideration. MS-DOS was the exact opposite,
and had to be "CP/M compatible" (that was one of IBM's "requirements").

> Or on NT 5.0?  Never heard of this on any OS coming out in the near future.
> Probably will never happen either.

I suggest that you have never worked with mainframe OSes or even OSes
like Novell Netware. 

I was *shocked* when I started using MS-DOS and found out that it had
*no* file security whatsoever. Hell, even Unix has file access
permissions. 

>  >>The existing OSes that do this aren't on secure hardware, so by use of
>  some ASM trickery, you can create things like sector editors so you can
>  crack the protection. On hardware with "protected" mode, the OS doesn't
>  allow this. Add encryption, with the key in the OS, and you are going
>  to have special hardware and software such as I mentioned above. >>

> Sector editors?  Sounds a little like harkening back to the "Good 'Ole Days"
> of 8 bit computing where the first copy protection schemes involved creating
> intentional bad sectors on the disk...heheh

Nope, not bad sectors. Just ones that the OS wouldn't let user programs
get at. So you had to bypass the OS and talk directly to the floppy
controller. As I noted, on CPU's with hardware protection, you can only
talk directly to the hardware *if* you are the OS.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 19:09:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

In mail you write:

>>> I don't like the idea of ships in J-space actually following courses in
>>> N-space which somehow interacts with N-space objects; it leaves a loophole
>>> for ships in jump to use this to communicate with, attack, or be attacked
>>> by other objects in N-space or in jump. Jump drive begins to look like 
> Star
>>> Trek's warp drive.
>>
>>I don't see how communication or attacks would be possible if the ship
>>is only affected by the natural gravity of N-space objects.
>
> It's possible because the gravitational interaction goes both ways; if the
> ship interacts with the "natural gravity of N-space objects", then those
> objects interact with the ship.

Not necessarily true! The curvature of N-space can warp J-space without
the reverse being true. It's possible that mass doesn't curve J-space.
In which case there's no corresponding warpage to feed back to N-space.

> Imagine a matrix of gravitic detectors, each side hundreds of kilometers
> across, in deep space between two systems with heavy jump-traffic. As ships
> zip by following their N-space courses the matrix is infuenced by their
> infintesimal gravity the same way "natural gravity" influences the ships.
> Analyzing the speed and direction of the influences will tell the jump
> number and N-space course of the ship. This gives you a pretty good idea of
> their origin and destination.

Two problems. First, that array will have to be a *lot* more than
"hundreds" of kilometers on a side. Consider the possible course lines,
given various start and end points in the two systems. Just between the
two mainworlds givens you a spread of courselines as wide as their
orbits (a couple of AU, ie about 300 *million* kilometers). Second, not
only do you have to position the array *very* carefully, but every
sensor has to have the same velocity. And that velocity has to be such
that the array will *stay* between the systems, in spite of their
relative motions.

Next, if the gravity from an object in J-space affects N-space, you
have this gravity well going past at FTL speeds. Since gravity
*propogates* at the speed of light, things get a bit weird here...

BTW, what good does it do you to detect the ships when you can't get
the info anywhere *before* the ship gets there?

> If gravitational effects can precipitate a ship from jump, or destroy
> it if large enough, you can attack ships in jump using a large enough
> artificial gravitational field.

And how do you get this in front of the target in time? 

> Since J-space is 2-dimensional, it is possible to construct a
> gravitational "fence" in J-space.

Excuse me? The only reason things are 2-d in the game (which *includes*
N-space!) is because 3d maps are *way* too much trouble.

> Put a gravitic device on board the ship which emits a modulated gravity
> pulse. The matrix can detect these modulations and decode them as the ship
> passes through while in jump. Now ships in jump can send messages. Then put
> a gravitic sensor on the ship and scatter specially encoded gravitic
> emitters throughout the matrix. The ship can detect the emitters and decode
> them as it passes through the matrix. Now you can communicate with ships in
> jump. If you can carry out electronic warfare (jamming, hacking, data
> piracy) in the fraction of a second the ship passes through the matrix, you
> can do so while the ship is in jump.

First thing, you'll need one *hell* of a grav emitter. Second, you've
got to get it close to the ship's course (gee, how'd you know about it
in advance?) and finally, how do you get the message to the array
before the ship goes by?

> If you can 'plot' jump courses to avoid N-space objects, and there is a
> mapping between N-space and J-space, then you change your J-space course as
> well. If you can do this, you can match your J-space course with that of
> another ship in jump. Both ships in jump can use the gravitic devices to
> create gravitational effects in their corresponding N-space location, and
> therefore communicate with each other. If the ships travel at the same jump
> speed they can communicate the entire time they are in jump.

Assuming that gravity *in* jumpspace has any effects *on* jumpspace. 

> These effects are completely antithetical to the background of Traveller.
> They are the main reason I dislike the idea of ships in jump having to
> follow N-space courses.

And they all depend on some *assumptions* regarding gravity *in*
jumpspace. 

> Another reason I dislike the "N-space course" idea is that N-space is
> 3-dimensional while J-space is 2-dimensional. Even if we assume the ship
> follows some kind of 2D to 3D mapping in N-space, it seems unlikely that
> course would be a simple straight line in N-space.

Again, j-space *isn't* 2-d.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:02:26 +1000
From: gjo@deakin.edu.au
Subject: MT missing tables?

I was looking through the MT Imperial Encyclopedia the other day
and read the section on surface travel, which mentioned some tables
for working out vechicle speed over various terrain types. I couldn't
find these tables in any of the books that came in the MT boxed set.

Do they exist, did I just overlook them some how?

Greg O'Sullivan
(gjo@deakin.edu.au) 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:45:14 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: re: American Jingoism

SD Mooney writes:

>>   Assuming a scenario where the US Navy is intact,
>
>But in the context of the discussion the US Navy is fighting a war for
>global domination, something that may stretch it at the moment.

  Then it would be up to those Los Angeles-class subs to take care of
things.  Failing that, you would have the ASW units, some of those old
modified Essex-class carriers that could be recommisioned, and of course
numerous other mothballed vessels including *real* battleships.  I don't
think the French would be stupid enough, however, to challenge our
ultimate weapon...

   ...the U.S.S. Constitution.  Fully functional and operational once
again.  How well would all that wood show up on French radar screens? 
:-)

>>   French SSBNs are inferior to Soviet and American submarines.  I don't
>>know what their boat captains are like, but similar to the aircraft
>>carriers, I doubt they could get past the Azores--far from missile
>>range.
>
>Possibly - I don't tend to under estimate French nuclear capacity though.
>They have one of the best infrastructures in the world outside the UK.

   Their forte seems to be tactical nukes.  I'm not sure how many
neutron weapons they have in their arsenal, but its probably no small
number.  Naturally these are pointed at targets in western *Germany*.

>Seriously, any nuclear
>power is going to threaten the US more with nuclear guerilla(*) warfare.

   One would assume that the French wouldn't one day just decide to park
a freighter in New York Harbor to set off a tac nuke.  There would be a
period of strained relations and eventually threats and a break in those
relations before any attack would occur.  Even the Japanese gave every
indication that they were going to strike against *somebody* in late
1941 or early 1942, even if American intelligence was too disjointed and
bureaucratic to figure out that Pearl Harbor was to be the target.  It
would be a rather difficult thing to pull off.

   I don't even want to get into what would happen to France afterwards
<shutter>.

   BTW, the whole 2300 scenario is similar to the global situation c.
1890, except that instead of the British Empire being rather dominant,
its the French.  The Americans in that era were just beginning to emerge
as a world power and had to settle for everyone else's leftovers when it
came to colonies (the Philippines, Puerto Rico, etc. weren't added until
1898 and were seized from Spain).  Ditto Germany, which was only
recently united.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 22:32:25 -0700
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Ship Missions

- ----------
From: 	CardSharks@aol.com[SMTP:CardSharks@aol.com]
Sent: 	Saturday, August 30, 1997 11:02 AM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	Ship Missions

I am trying to fill out a table for ship design detailing various ship
missions.

Column 1 is the basic mission. Column 2 is a mission modifier.

Does anyone care to make some suggestions?

SHIP MISSIONS
Code	Basic			Suffix
	A	Auxiliary		Armored
	B	Battle			-
	C	Cruiser/Close/Carrier	Armed
	D	Destroyer		-
	E	Escort			Escort
	F	Fighter			Fast
	G	-			Gun (Energy Weapons)
	H	Hospital			Heavy
	I	Intelligence		-
	J	-			-
	K	Cargo 			Stores (dry goods)
	L	Liner (Personnel)	Light
	M	Monitor 			Meson
	N	-			Missile (nuclear)
	O	-			-
	P	Patrol			-
	Q	-			-
	R	Repair			Rider
	S	Scout			Sensor
	T	Tender			Tanker (H2)
	U	Multi-Use (Cargo/Liner)	Unarmed (Civilian)
	V	-			-
	W	-			Supply (Weapons)
	X	Experimental		-
	Y	-			-
	Z	Scientific		Special Mission

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:29:48 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: 

Sorry to trouble you amidst your ruminations, but what's your mommy's phone
number?  Judging from your crankiness, and the way it's smelling up the
list, your nappy needs changing, big time.

>From: lugh1
>To: jlockett@io.com
>Subject: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett
>X-Status: New
>
>Oh, waah.  You're just a sore loser and a woefully limited
>brainwashedpatriot with a complete unwillingness or inability to
>appreciate differentviews in speculative fiction.  Italy's in pretty bad
>shape right now, interms of both prestige and capability: whither the
>Roman Empire? didn't they get nuked and invaded by mexico ?And a bad
>typist and a lousy debater at that.  With no sense of socialgraces.  I
>particularly appreciated the message in which you bashed MTand TNE in
>practically the same breath.  Negative, negative.  So just whatis it that
>you like, anyway, whiner?actually I have defended the TNE background just
>not the system which I personally did not like . I like CT and T4 , also
>what I like is whining and to talk about being a lousy debater , look at
>your self hypocrit . have you defende you point of view or are you
>content to insult me .blow a czarnianchip
>----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
>Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga
>user,http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean
>scholar,  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and
>director.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:26:24 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: a teeny correction +/- 0.02cr 

>>thank the gods that game reeked specealy the star ship system and combat
>>, I never could figure out how much a trader could carrie as I was used
>>to tons and MT use cubic meters , and as we all know a cubic meter of
>>one thing is not the same as a cubic meter of another .

????!??!??!??!
Er excuse me, a metre is a set measurement! (it's measured off a bar of
something they've got stored in France) Therefore a cubic metre is always
the same size of material no matter what the material is. The only
confusing FF&S (and other Traveller design systems) measurement is between
ton and tonne, where one is displacement in hydrogen and the other is
weight in 1000's of kg's (I can't remember which is which though). 

Traveller used the metric system because it is sooo much easier to convert
between metres, kilograms, litres and watts and their various multiples,
rather than feet, pounds, (the thing you use for volume & energy) etc.. 

But yes, MT starship combat did reek (I've never seen CT's so I can't
compare but I have got MT, TNE & Brillant Lances). MT combat was
'incomplete' in my opinion (but I have worked out a better system), and
design could be a little confusing if you didn't have the errata - So
that's why I switched to TNE.

TNE does everything more thoroughly and consistently than MT and has the 
clearest layout of them all, the only problem being is that you have to
halve a PC's hit capacity to make them realistically killable (ah well,
you can't get everything right).

Brilliant Lances works pretty damn well in my opinion - a tad on the
complex side of course :) Striker II's great (Don't get me started on how 
much Games Workshop's current miniature systems suck) and can be bent into
any scale too... 


I'm never going to buy T4 rulebooks (I might buy Milieu books though)
because:
 	a)It's too expensive compared to other systems (and the amount I
                                                       paid for MT & TNE)

	b)It's has more bugs than ever before

	c)Combat is too simple for my tastes (TNE being my limits of
					      preferred complexity)

	d)Why buy Traveller all over again? Do you want me to throw away
          all my old books (don't answer that)?!??! 

TNE's FF&S is more flexible and compact than any other Traveller system so
far. FF&S2 doesn't even cover all the old FF&S stuff! So much for the 
all-singing all-dancing T4, which changes it's rules, repeats itself and
generally forces you to buy 3 or 4 books just for all the design rules.

And if you think TNE was a canon breaker, wait till you see what GURPS
does to your beloved craft, characters and combat situations... :P

Imperium Games would have made more money republishing Classic 
Traveller (How many of you out there would die for some of the rare CT
stuff...) since it seems to be the only system that everyone respects...

							D.Moodie

	One of those sickos who actually appreciates MT & TNE and thinks
Virus is workable in a universe that has given you Anti-Grav, Thruster
Plates & Jump Drives (and ship-sized teleportation and reality altering
guns at TL20 according to MT). 

<ANTI-FLAME FIELD ACTIVATED>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:39:59 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

Leonard Erickson wrote

> In mail you write:
> 
> > But, how do Zilan natives go anywhere else off planet.  How would a
> > Zilan native, who is used to .272 Gs, function on a plant of 1 G?
> 
> About the same way you would on a planet with a gravity of 3.68 g
> (1/.272).
> 
> > If my players pick up some passengers (let's say they are all Zilan
> > natives) from Zila, and the ship is set at a standard 1 G, how does this
> > effect the passengers?

Cannonically in TNE charecters from a planet with a gravity of 0.2 or
less subtracted 2 from Strength and Constitution (what other versions or
Traveller call Endurance).  If from a gravity of greater than 0.2 but
less than 0.5 subtract 1 from Str and Con.

> 
> Badly. Very badly. Their circulatory system won't be up to it for one.
> They'd essentially be invalids, and even flat on their back there could
> be medical problems.

This may be the correct medical answer but it is not the correct
_Traveller_ answer.  Many player charecters are going to be from low
gravity planets, how badly do you want to screw over their players in
the name of accuracy ?
> 
> Note: the above is assuming that the Zilans *are* native, or that their
> ancestors came to the planet long enough ago (millienia at least!) for
> them to be adapted to the planet. 

Even if they have been their for millenia, if they are human beings,
they have had hundreds of millions of years worth of ancestors (starting
with the first amphibians) who have adapted to 1.00 g, don't you think
this is an important factor ?

> If it's a colony that's only been
> there a few generations, then they are *potentially* just as strong as
> the players. But it may take them years of hard work to "adapt" to
> normal gravity.
> 
> > Do the PC's look like supermen compared to the Zilan citizens when they
> > are on planet?
> 
> Well, remember that they can't "leap tall buildings with a single bound".
> While they can jump higher, what counts is their center of mass. So
> they can raise their center of mass (call it the waistline) 3.68 times
> higher. 

My understanding was that as gravity decreased your ability to jump
increases as the square root of the gravity.  Thus in a gravity of 0.272
you would only be able to move your center of mass 1.92 times as far as
in 1 gravity.

>That's a lot different from the usual misconception that "if I
> can jump up and touch a 10 foot ledge with my fingers, then I can touch
> a 36 foot ledge here". To touch the 10 foot ledge you've only raised
> your center of mass from about 3 feet to about 4.5 feet. So under .272
> g, you could raise it from 3 feet to 5.5 feet, that's a 2.5 foot
> change. So the guy who could reach a 10 foot ledge with his fingertips
> can now reach an 11 foot ledge....
> 
> You can lift a lot more, and win wrestling matches. But no super jumps.
> Running is likely to turn into a mess until you are used to the extra
> "bounce" in your step. The natives will likely be able to outrun *you*!

In The Moon is a Harsh Mistress Robert A Heinlein said:  "What is the
easiest way to break a leg going down stairs in low (lunar) gravity ? 
In three easy steps."  :)

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1834
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 16 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1835



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1826
Re: Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc.
Re: America 2300ad
High G people
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: MT missing tables?
Re: dan lane
Re: How to get things done!
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: dan lane , D Berry , T2000 2300AD  ect .
Re: MT missing tables
RE: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD Mailing lists?
Re: American Jingoism
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1829

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:34:35
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1826

>From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>

>> (incidentally, someone talked
>> about wage-push inflation recently. Do the math - it only happens when you
>> drop the assumption that business acts in order to maximize profits. Which
>> one probably should do if one is trying to model a 20th century economy,
>> but that is another issue). 
>
>	What you say is true only in the world of the theoretical 
>economist.  And the macro models of theoretical economists that 
>are en vogue right now don't work particularly well.  The Federal 
>Reserve still believes in wage-push inflation, that's why they 
>still use unemployment as an important inflation indicator.  Given its 
>totally empirical focus and excellent record, I'd believe the Fed on such 
>matters.
>	As for profit maximization and extensive rationality, remember 
>that these are theoretically convenient assumptions rather than empirically 
>accurate descriptions.  
>

The key to it is if buisinesses maximize profits, then if they *can* raise
prices, they do. Rising real wages would therefore leave prices at the
level they would otherwise have reached (becasue if businesses maximize
profits, if they can raise prices without losing net revenue by lost sales,
they do raise prices, and if they cant they dont). It may have effects on
the rate of profit or on output (as businesses go broke due to higher wage
costs), but it wont have effects on prices.

Of course, if businesses act by aiming at a target rate of profits, and
then slacking off when they get there, we are in a swamp without a map,
and any damn thing can happen.

(PS if other people can geek about American gingoism and T2000, we can
geek about High Theory *grin* BTW, do you think the current US boom is
due to tech change [the payoff from all that investment in PCs] or part
of a Ponzi scheme based on the wealth affect from rising stock prices
boosting consumption, which keeps output high and boosts profits, thus
helping raise stock prices ?)

>> By the way, has anyone else wondered why Free Traders tie up all that
>> working cargo in a starship, rather than by buying the speculative cargo
>> and leasing the starship on a monthly basis ?
>
>	Someone else asked this recently and I think that most speculative
>trade is conducted by import-export companies that ship goods as 
>freight on the big haulers.  Free Traders exist in the smallest of niches 
>where their newer information and ability to serve very small markets 
>allows them to survive.  They are by no means the main-stays of trade in 
>the Imperium.
>	Historically there were ships that operated as something like 
>Free Traders, but they relied on unorganized buyers and sellers on both 
>ends and significant transactional hazards.  With both ends of the 
>transaction under the Imperial legal and financial umbrella, arranging 
>trades directly without the middle-man of the Free Trader shouldn't be 
>too difficult.

Not quite true. I'd need to check my sources (the best one a shipping 
register for one of the Dutch ports for ships to and from the East Indies 
between about 1600 and about 1700 ... it's in Dutch, which is liveable, 
and 250 miles away in Sydney, which isnt), but Free Traders as we know and
love had a pretty big presence ... from memory, about half of the ships
going to the East Indies from Holland were Jan Compagnie (the Dutch East
Indies Company - arguably the first of the MegaCorporations), and half
were independant efforts. The stuff in Braudel's Meditteranean in the
Time of Phillip II seems to support Free Traders as a viable form of 
trade (but not the only form of trade. Again, I'd have to go back to my
sources if called, but the Spanish in the Carribbean began to ammass
their trading ships in big convoys once pirates became a problem, even
for inter-island trade. Of course, this made the settlers more willing
to trade with the pirate/trader who was here now, rather than wait a month
for the convoy). The "commenda" contract also has a long history ... I
put up the money, and you put your ass on the line doing the actual travel
and trading, and we split the profits down the middle. Hmmm, if starship
crews get Cr36000 a year, call the rate of interest 5%, so a crewmember 
is worth Cr720 000 in rough numbers ... hmmm. Given the difference a 
good pilot or gunner makes in most rules systems, I think skilled crew
will be able to negotiate a lot better than a 10% per skill level bonus.
In seriously dangerous areas, a good starship gunner could ask for up
to 1% of the ships value per jump ... after all, one laser hit a hotshot
gunner could have put sand in front of could cost you megacredits in
repair bills.

Secondly, to me unorganized buyers and sellers and signifigant
transactional hazards
sounds just like long-distance trade between centers months apart. My view
is that Free Traders would be involved in long-haul trade, where the lag
time of a week in each port to find buyers is less signifigant. The
Megacorporations
run a blue crew/gold crew arrangement (land, refuel, load cargo, change crew, 
leave ... I think you could cut turnaround in port to under 8 hours,
assuming maintainence is not due).

Anyway, taking cargo across a sector seems more heroic and adventurous than
doing short-haul runs along a main, and thus should be encouraged.

Thirdly, there are always going to be corrupt corporate or other officials
who want a cargo moved with no paperwork, or who need something to go
*now* rather than in four days when the mail truck leaves.

>	We could imagine commercial information going out on the X-boats
>or X-Web, also.  So an operation on a backwater world could use a search
>program on the subsector yellow pages to find someone to sell him several
>tons of foogle-blasters in odd sizes.  He'd place an order into the mail,
>to be picked up by the next mail ship, along with an encoded
>funds-transfer order to be executed when a valid bill-of-lading was 
>presented to the bank by the company he's ordering from.  If there was 
>some problem with the delivery, he might have to travel off-world to 
>solve the legal problem, but the uniform Imperial laws would be known to 
>him and well equipped to handle the situation.  Still, the trouble and 
>expense of such arrangements means that only companies that rely on 
>off-world supplies or markets for frequent transactions will bother to 
>set them up.  Other firms will rely on importer-exporters.  On the 
>frontiers and in back waters, Subsidized Merchants probably provide the 
>continuity to hold this system together.  
>	All this means Free Traders try to survive by filling the cracks
>in this system or going where regular trade and communication do not
>exist. 
>

This might be true, but it doesnt feel Trav ... although I am reminded 
about George Orwell's essay about when Whitehall began to run India by
telegraph. This is, I think, the way things work in the staid, settled
areas of the Imperium (ie nowhere in M0, most everywhere by 1100).

Oh, and I dont believe in Subsidized Merchants per se (although, given
bureaucracy and politics, all things are possible. Look at the American
CVBG groups ... a solution
looking for a problem). It is simpler just to offer cut rates on fuel or
maintainence (they are goanna carry cargo to and from the maintainence depot).
More likely is bounties on cargo carried (a negative tax of, say, Cr100 per
displacement
ton) or on the industries that make the goods (it's a lot harder to steal a
ruby
polishing facility).

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:18:41 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc.

Garry Ward wrote

> At 08:09 AM 9/15/97 +0000, Barry / Micheal wrote:
> >I have discovered a cache of old Dragon and similar magazines, dating
> >waaaaay back. Rather than dig through endless turgid cr*p detailing the
> >sexual habits of purple ringed dragon-ferrets, I'd like some kind soul to
> >tell me what issues contained Traveller-related material that is worth
> >salvaging from the grasps of D&D munchkins.

> Imperium articles, Dragon vol III #6
> Special Traveller section, Dragon #35
> Imperium research, Dragon #39
> Canard (adventure), Dragon #43
> 
> Based on the first magazine holder on the Dragon shelf. There are some
> others after that, and probably some before #35, but my collection is rather
> spotty prior to that.

My copy of The Dragon Magazine Ultimate Article Index (Dragon #112
August 1986) says

Traveller Articles (Name/Issue #)

Active Duty				102
Antimissiles & Roundshot		95
Asimov Cluster				20
Black Holes !				35
"Does Anyone Here Speak Aslan ?"	91
Double-Helix Connection			109
Dwarves in Space 			70
Filling in Skills			55
Hexes & High Guard			104
High Tech & Beyond			108
IBIS Profit & Peril			35
In Defense of Computers			51
Interstellar Athletes			86
Luna: A Travellers Guide		87	(Marc Miller)
Make Your Own Aliens			51
Masers & Cameras			51
Merchants Deserve More Too		53
Miller Milk Bottle			51	(Marc Miller)
More Clout for Scouts			35
New Ideas for Old Ships			51
Of Nobles & Men				103
"Other" Options				35
Planet Parameters			51
Plotting a Course for Choosy Players	51
Preventing Complaceny in Traveller Gaming	85
Relief for Traveller nobility		73
Robots					64
Rogues of the Galaxy			97
Star System Generation			27
Stellar Diocese				101
Strategy of Survival			18
Tesseracts				27
Translating Skitterbugging into Traveller	59
Traveller Navy Eants to Join You	25
Traveller Politician			32
Useful Skills				35

Traveller Adventures

Canard					43
Exonidas Spaceport			59


As you can probably tell issue #51 was a special Traveller issue.

This listing does not include reviews, or any articles published after
issue #112 (I am not aware of any), otherwise it should be complete
unless the articles compilers (Jean & Wally Black, Kim Mohan - Editor)
made an error.	

Can anyone tell me if there is a list anywhere of all Traveller Articles
in _all_ gaming magazines ?		

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:24:02 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

At 07:21 PM 15/09/97 +0100, you wrote:

>The crux of my point was meant to be that even if you don't like a
>background, it doesn't make it invalid. You can always play in a different
>milieau / background.

Good point! And thank you for taking the time to explain :)




Harry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:26:39 +0100 (BST)
From: eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Douglas Sinclair)
Subject: High G people

An experiment was done some years ago in which chickens were hatched
and raised in a centrifuge, providing 2-g acceleration.  These chickens
went on to lay eggs which hatched into more chickens, and on it went
for 15 or 20 generations.  The end result was very stocky, powerful
looking chickens.  Chickens were chosen because they are structurally
similar to humans in that they have two load-bearing limbs (legs) and
two non-load bearing limbs (wings).  I don't believe that these chickens
could fly.

This experiment was writen up as a chapter of a book called _Great 
Mambo Chicken(s?)_.  Of course, 20 generations isn't really enough
for true evolution to take place.  I think what was seen was the
response of an ordinary chicken to high-G.  Taking this to Traveller,
new colonists on a high-G world would look like muscled dwarfs.
After enough time, or genetic engineering, they might end up lightly
muscled as has been suggested on the list.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:39:09 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

Would it be possible to put "scramblers" on jump routes, that would
prevent ships from being able to use the jump route?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:41:12 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: MT missing tables?

gjo@deakin.edu.au wrote:

> I was looking through the MT Imperial Encyclopedia the other day
> and read the section on surface travel, which mentioned some tables
> for working out vechicle speed over various terrain types. I couldn't
> find these tables in any of the books that came in the MT boxed set.
>
> Do they exist, did I just overlook them some how?
>
> Greg O'Sullivan
> (gjo@deakin.edu.au)

You also won't find the errata on RAM grenades.  I had to call GDW for
that info.


- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:45:02 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: dan lane

At 01:43 PM 15/09/97 -0700, you wrote:

>Struggling mightily to bring this back to Traveller, how much would
>planetary identity eefect the ability of the Imperial forces to operate..
>We've seen here that even between alleged allies, feelings can run hot.


Hmmm... an Imperial ocupation force consists of two armies drawn from
Imperial member worlds. But the beaucracy has forgotten that these member
worlds frequently clashed militarily before joining, and still fight
economically (and in secret, with commando raids and other nasties)
afterward. 

The world being occupied/annexed is amzed when the two Imperial armies,
after a "friendly fire" incident, start slugging it out with each other.

The players just happen to be in the starport when the fighting starts.

If you want to read how a "mistake" like this can proceed, read Tom
Clancy's "Sum of all fears". When the same sort of thing happens to Soviet
and US forces in Berlin, just after the wall came down!

<evil referee grin> 
Hey, I like this....


Harry

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:36:23 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: How to get things done!

Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:

> >The EU (French?) have
> >a much smaller shuttle design in the works
> HERMES - the major drive behind Ariane 5 being such a big complicated
> monstrosity - is pretty much cancelled.
>
> >as do the Japanese, IIRC
> HOPE, which is also cancelled (for all practical purposes) - there might be
> flights of a subscale demonstrator.
>
> The fashionable approach to spaceflight today is single-stage-to-orbit
> (or single-stage with slight modifications). Most ambitious is LockMart's
> X-33 (a suborbital demonstrator leading to a flight vehicle to be called
> VentureStar). It's a vertical-takeoff/horizontal landing (like the shuttle)
> lifting body design, with aerospike engines; shuttle-sized payloads to orbit
> but with a substantial risk of turning into something as expensive and
> complex as the shuttle.
>
> Several less ambitous proposals are being floated around by small companies -
> including fully-reuseable TSTOs, SSTO's that take off with empty tanks and
> use mid-air refuelling before igniting their rockets, and a SSTO orbital
> helicopter called ROTON. Hard to see which ones are likely to actually
> fly...but it's potentially very exciting.
>
> Bruce

What about using ground-based lasers to lift small cargo ship into low earth
orbit?


- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:46:22 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

What I want are the books themselves.  I've looked for years for
Merchant Prince, Fighting Ships, Solomani Rim and Scouts.  Until I got
on ths list, i didn't even have an idea there were alien modules out.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:07:20 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: dan lane , D Berry , T2000 2300AD  ect .

	since I started this thread , let me just say that I think it is
probably time to agree to disagree about the T2000 background . perhaps
the game will be re released with a updated and more plausible background
perhaps not . what is clear is that we are getting way out in this debate
and insults and feelings are running hot . I am as guilty as any . the
fact is that no one knows how WW3 would turn out for any country and
though I strongly feel the U.S. military is superior over all I respect
the training and skill of some of the other foriegn militarys . the SAS
and italian alpine inf to name a few .
	but enough of this , let us return to the main topic of the list
BASHING TRAVELLER THE NEW ERA !!!!! no no no I mean discussing traveller
and traveller related products , my personal new fav. is pocket empires ,
if any one wants to run it e-mail let me know , also I am considering
running PE e-mail so I'll let you know .

thank you for your patience

chip
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:13:06 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: MT missing tables

> I was looking through the MT Imperial Encyclopedia the other day
> and read the section on surface travel, which mentioned some tables
> for working out vechicle speed over various terrain types. I couldn't
> find these tables in any of the books that came in the MT boxed set.

> Do they exist, did I just overlook them somehow?

Hmmm, I thought I had all my tables fixed but I never noticed that one!

Vehicles in MT are pretty poorly supported anyway - but my suggestion is:
count anything non-paved as 'off-road' and use the vehicles off road
speed unless the terrain is bloody hard to cross in a vehicle (I designed
a Battletech style mech to overcome this and the players loved it).

The major glitchette about vehicles is working out a suitable modifier for
shooting at high speed targets, because using personal combat rules the
modifier runs into a wall at -8 dm, therefore making most vehicles all
impose a -8 on personnel shooting (This is all from memory guys) at them.
TNE fixes this problem but it's not really workable into MT as it is based
on Diff Level Mods and d20's.

I have the 1st sep 1990 errata and it is still missing grenade prices (ask
me for these, I have a list) and some space travel info (turned up in
Referee's Companion - I also have this, ask me for the info too) 

							D.Moodie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:10:29 -0700
From: KevinC <kevinc@cnetech.com>
Subject: RE: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD Mailing lists?

MPGN hosts both a Twilight list and a 2300AD list ( but their 2300AD
list has no traffic because of another independantly hosted 2300AD list
existed first).

For instructions on how to join the independant 2300AD list, send a
message to:
ad2300-request@mars.galstar.com

and put just the word HELP in the body of the message ( not the subject
line) and leave out your automatic signature if you have one.  You will
get a automated message back with instructions on how to join the list.


Now here are the instructions for MPGN's Twilight list:
< begin quote>
Welcome to the Twilight 2000 mailing lists!  These lists exist as a
means for you, the Twilight 2000 player/GM to exchange ideas and discuss
various aspects of the Twilight 2000 system and it's universe.

There are two separate lists provided --  A normal version and a
digest version.  They are:

    twilight2000@MPGN.COM/twilight2000-digest@MPGN.COM

To switch to a digest from a normal distribution (or vice versa),
simply subscribe to the new list and unsubscribe from the old list by
sending mail to majordomo@MPGN.COM.  For example, suppose you are
subscribed to twilight2000@MPGN.COM and want to switch to a digest, you
would send a mail message to majordomo@MPGN.COM with the following in
the body:

        subscribe twilight2000-digest
        unsubscribe twilight2000

Archives of the digests will be made available on the MPG-Net Gaming
Archive in the directory /Gaming/Twilight2000.  Simply ftp to
ftp.MPGN.COM, log on as 'ftp' or 'anonymous', give your e-mail address
as the password and start downloading.  Alternately, you can retrieve
message digests by sending commands in an e-mail message to
Majordomo@MPGN.COM.  For help in this process, send a mail message
with 'help' as the body to Majordomo@MPGN.COM.

If you have difficulties with the FTP archive, please send mail to
ftp-maint@MPGN.COM and the maintainers will be happy to help.  Also,
if you are having difficulties with the Twilight 2000 mailing lists, you
can send mail to either twilight2000-request@MPGN.COM and I will assist.
< end quote>

- -- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://www.bounce.to/PentapodsWorld/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:28:09 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: American Jingoism

Dom Wrote:

>How good the French technology is would be interesting - I mean, the UK
>developed its systems from US power and weapon systems., but the French
>went it alone.

<put on strong PR accent>

Sorry to disapoint you 'old boy' ... but the Americans didn't give us a
jot of help untill we managed to detonante a nuclear device off the 
cost of Australia, and then a thermal nuclear device off bikkini
island. The US then thought that a rekindalling of the 'special arangment'
was a good idear as 'old blighty' became a nuclear player.

<drop strong PR accent>

We only brought US missiles after we had proved we could do it ourselves
... :-)

Ewan

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'
	http://www.comp.it.bton.ac.uk/~edq/
                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:08:01 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1829

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:18:03 -0400, you wrote:

>>On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 08:38:51 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:45:00 +1200
>>>From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>>>Subject: Vilani immune system (long and sort of technical)
>
>><much excellent technical data snipped, but not ignored!)
>
>Why thank you :*).
>
>[snip]
>
>>However you run it, though, Terran diseases, as represented by the supposed
>>worst of them, the Plague of Duskir, killed less than 1% of the population of
>>the Ziru Sirka.
>
>First of all; I know the canon sources you are referring too as to the die
>back of the PoD. To put it simply, I think these are way too low (ie I think
>canon is wrong). Given the nature of the problem, a die back of 10% to 30%
>is not unreasonable. The only way for this to be avoided would be a massive

Yes, a 10-30% die back may not be "unreasonable" -- but it isn't canon! In fact,
the figures that we have directly contradict it!

>Terran intervention. The problem with this, is the level of intervention is

<much on intervention snipped>

However, you are making an assumption that is unwarranted -- or, at least,
*perhaps* unwarranted. And that is, quite simply, that 100% of the Vilani
populace of the ZS will be exposed to the diseases. Remember that most diseases
are actually fairly difficult to get -- the methods of transmission require
fairly close proximity, contaminated food and/or water supplies and the like and
these can be controlled much more simply (and would have had to have been even
on Vland -- as the food that the Vilani eat had to be preserved, at the very
least; elsewhere, contamination, though a lesser problem, would exist).

In other words, a disease like Ebola is something like 95% fatal -- however,
this does *not* mean that 95% of a region's population is killed by it! It
simply means that the few poor bastards who contract it have a 95% or greater
chance of dying from it.

So, the Vilani and other minor human races have some protection right from the
start.

Anyhow, and correct me if I'm wrong, humans have no protection whatsoever
against Ebola -- none, nada, zip. zero, null -- and any survival seems to stem
from the strain weakening with each step in transmission from the index cases
rather than any enhanced T-cells or whatever. So even with a close to 100% kill
rate disease, the number that die yearly is, what, maybe a few score or less --
unless you have an "outbreak" of a few hundred? And that's achieved through
careful quarantine. I know its a stretch, but surely there is a good case to
understand that just because a Vilani would have close to a 30% chance of dying
in the face of infection by a Terran virus or bacteria, this doesn't mean that
30% of Vilani would die! Only 30% of those infected.

In other words, perhaps the PoD *did* have a 30% kill rate -- but only managed
to infect and kill less than 1% of the populace of the ZS?

>>I presume that it really doesn't matter whether the populace were racially
>>Vilani or some other minor Human race, as they *all* were cut off from the
>>mainstream of humanity some 300k years before, and therefore have the same lack
>>of T-Cell memory etc.
>
>Yep, they all lack the helper T cells. But this is not the major problem
>for the Vilani. What is the killer for the Vilani is the degeneration of
>their immune system due to evolving in a sterile environment. As far as we
>can tell, the other minor races did not evolve in environments completely
>free from the risk of infection; therefore while their immune system would
>also have degenerated, it would not be as marked as in the Vilani.

But the Vilani have, of course, been exposed to non-Vilani environments for,
what, 3000 years before contact with Terra? They would have inevitably been
exposed to the dangers of those environs for the very reason that they are not
affected at home -- they had no concept of the dangers! This means that they
would have some immunity, some treatments, and a good idea of quarantine.

>>Ergo, *either* the Terrans *did* undertake a huge (and self-evidently vastly
>>successful) inoculation/antibiotic/antiviral distribution plan *or* the
>lessened
>>effectiveness of the Vilani immune system was overstated (perhaps there is some
>>factor here that is explainable by what we know, or by something that we will
>>discover in the hypothetical future).
>
>This is a "dangerous" line of reasoning. We can explain things like Thruster
>plates, anti-grav and jump drives as things we don't yet understand. But with
>the immune system we have a good current working model. This is like saying
>in the future, we have discovered that internal combustion engines don't in
>fact work the way we thought.

I don't see the objection -- surely there is no reason why a high tech culture
like that of the ZS would have any trouble producing the necessary equipment for
producing terran biochemicals if they were provided with the computer templates?
And we *know* that the Terrans have occupied ZS planets for many generations
before the final collapse, so they would be a) aware of the problem and, b) have
some idea of the magnitude of the needed solution and, c) have some plans and
stockpiles to deal with it.

Unless, of course, you are claiming that the TC and the RoM undertook a
deliberate policy of genocide by neglect? This doesn't make sense -- despite the
attitude of the US to Japan in 1941 (was it Halsey who said something along the
lines of "When this war is over, Japanese will be a language spoken only in
Hell."? they did not either actively or passively act to let the Japanese
populace die ... there would have been mass starvation in 1945/46 as the Rice
Crop had failed, so the US imported the food to keep the Japanese alive. They
did much the same in Germany. I cannot believe that the Terrans of the
Interstellar Wars would be so brutal -- we're even told that the reason for the
Colonials support of Estigaribbia's coup was their sympathetic attitude to the
poor treatment the TC government was allegedly going to impose on the Vilani.

>>As for a Terran example, well, the Spanish Flu is one -- it was a
>completely new
>>disease for which none of our disease memory had any "handle" ... yet it only
>>managed to kill around 1.5% of the then populace before disappearing (and it
>>wasn't, so we have discovered recently by DNA typing viable specimens preserved
>>more or less by accident at the time, a new strain of the Flu, it was a mutant
>>version of Swine Flu).
>
>Actually, I simplified the helper T cell process for clarity. The helper T
>cells are capable of 'learning' to indentify new organisms. The speed with
>which they can 'learn' is related to the similarity of the virus to ones
>they already know how to detect. Thus in 1917, there would be very few
>humans who did not have helper T cells capable of detecting many flu viruses.
>Thus when the Spanish Flu came along our immune system could adapt quickly
>to it. It's the mutant nature of the Flu which greatly lessened it's
>viralence. Again, the Vilani do not have this advantage, due to the time of
>seperation.

No, sorry. Spanish Flu was *NOT* related to normal Flu viruses -- well, in
perhaps the same way that a Chimp is *our* relative ... they have a common
ancestor. But I wouldn't want to have a blood transfusion from Chimp blood,
thank you very much. The Spanish Flu was a mutant direct from Swine Flu, whereas
the Flu viruses that normally affect humans are several hundred thousand mutant
generations from a mutant from the Swine Flu ... at least two thousand years
ago. That's why, as I understand it, it was so devastating on an individual
basis.

>>According to what I have read, some diseases can be *too* lethal, and kill off
>>either all possible hosts too quickly (so they cannot spread) and these
>diseases
>>generally appear once (often in Africa or Asia near the huge disease/bio
>>reservoirs that are the rain forests) and then disappear ... and all are
>>basically animal diseases. Perhaps the PoD was just the same.
>
>There are a lot of diseases which could make up the PoD. Take for instance
>Pneumocytes carinii. This is a protoza parasite which resides within
>perhaps 95% of the population. Normally it's no problem to us as it is kept
>under control by our immune system. However if our immune system starts to
>breakdown or weaken, it becomes quite lethal (it is a major cause of death
>with AIDS sufferers). There are many of these protoza resident with in our
>bodies all kept under control by the immune system and when our immune
>system weakens they become killers. These are diseases which all Terrans
>carry, but are uneffected by.

And how long have these been symbionts (well, sort of) with humans? Does it go
back to the time before the Vilani were taken off by Grandfather?

>[snip]
>
>>>Therefore common sense tells us that the Vilani have to have had an immune
>>>response system noticeably less effective than the Terrans when the first
>>>contacted them. Realistically no other conclusion is possible. If canon states
>>>this is not the case, then canon is simply flying in the face of scientific
>>>reality.
>
>>Noticeably less effective = 99% of Terran levels.
>
>No, we are taking much less effective. Again this is not taken from Traveller
>canon, but modern science. As we understand it a race which has spent nearly
>300K years in a sterile environment will suffer much more than 1% degredation,
>sure we don't know just how much, but we do know it will be more than a little.

So we must assume that TC and RoM precautions saved them? And boosted their
immune systems effectively to Terran levels -- after all, we are told that less
than 1% of their population died. And that *is* canon.

>>>programme unlike anything ever before. However, since the effectiveness of
>>>innoculation is totally dependant on the effectiveness of the individual's
>>>immune response; many Vilani will still fall victim to the first onslaught
>>>of Terran diseases.
>
>>But antibiotics and antivirals will still be effective. These are, after all,
>>diseases that effect Terrans as well.
>
>Firstly, as yet we have no drug which can be classed as an antiviral agent.
>Nor is their any sign of any likely to be developed in the next 50 years.
>Not to say we won't in 300 years, but not to say we will. However, here's

According to the MTrav "Referee's Companion", Antiviral vaccinations are TL10,
well below the peak pre RoM TL12/13 level achieved *before* they conquered the
ZS.

<snip>

>sick, lots and lots of people. How do you treat disease? First you have to
>indentify it, which is reliant on the doctor's experience and training (an
>edu task); but the Vilani doctors are weak on this. Sure they've got all the
>lastest bulletins from Terra on what to look for, but its still not that
>easy and it still comes down to experience and the Vilani still lack this.

Easy. You follow the simple instructions from the Medical Expert program the TC
or RoM have provided to be downloaded into your medical database (Expert systems
are TL8). You use your automated factories to produce the antibiotics and
antivirals on a priority basis.

>So fairly soon the Vilani hospitals are bulging at the seams, beds in the

No. You are assuming that a disease with a Kill Rate of 30% will kill 30% of the
populace. This is not the case. There is no doubt that people will be affected,
but with minimal planning on part of the TC/RoM there will be no worse an affect
than the Spanish Flu -- 1.5% of Terran Population overall, but, in the case of
US troopships en route to Europe, in excess of 30% death rates and (IIRC) in
excess of 60% so severely incapacitated that it took them months to recover.

Perhaps I am being too optimistic, but I suspect that you are being too
pessimistic!

I still reckon that there is considerable evidence to suggest that the PoD was
hyped out of all proportion to its actual effect(s).

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1835
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 16 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1836



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1829
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1830
Re: Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc.
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832
Re: Low and high gravity humans
Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)
Re: Gravity Advice
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832
Re: Bad guys from the Core?
Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!
Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!
Fighter Quality
Re: Vilani & Plagues

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:07:59 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1829

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:18:03 -0400, you wrote:

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Duskir, Canon and Common Sense
>
>Phil,
>
>You and your opponent(s) are arguing in circles and wasting *entirely*
>too much space on the list. I am *certain* that I'm far from the only
>person who sees one of the posts on *either* side of the argument and
>either skips it, or does a very rapid "skim" to see if there is
>anything else being discussed in the message.
>
>I think that all involved should take it to private email and quit
>cluttering the list. The posts are starting to resemble spam as far as
>being of *no* interest to the rest of the list.
>
>ps. I'm not singling you out, it's just that I hit one of your posts
>first. 

Fair enough, but you will note that I have cut most of the "crap" down to a very
short series of points and, anyway, I think that we've all pretty much said what
we have to say.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:08:27 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1830

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:45:39 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:29:15 +0200 (METDST)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Duskir, Canon, and Common Sense
>
>Phillip McGregor writes:
>>Let's consider a few pertinent "facts" that have been presented in the 
>>course of this argument --
>
>That, at least, is a very good idea.
>
>>1)  Vilani  immune  systems, as a result of having been in what some people 
>>have claimed was a disease free environment for several hundred thousand 
>>years, are almost totally unable to handle exposure to even harmless Terran 
>>bacteria, let alone actual Terran *diseases*.
>
>There's acouple of errors here.  While Andrew's argument that the Vilani
>immune systems must actually be inherently weaker than the Terran immune
>systems is very convincing, all the sources actually say is that the
>Vilani were not immune to a lot of Terran bacteria and viruses, which is
>hardly surprising, since they had never encountered them. Also, the
>quotes about "harmless" implies that if they were harmless to the Terrans 
>then they really should also be harmless to the Vilani. That simply does
>not follow.

Actually, I think that the "errors", whether errors or not, are quibbles and are
irrelevant to the base argument that the Vilani were supposedly more vulnerable
to Terran diseases, which is canon.

>>2) There is no game mechanism to allow of racial Vilani characters to be more
>>susceptible to Terran diseases.
>
>True. But then, there are no game mechanics that deals with Vilani before the
>Year 0.

No, but even with two thousand years of improvement and catching up, racial
pureblood Vilani would still be more susceptible to Terran diseases in M0 and
even in MTrav or TNE, and there are no rules for this.
 
>>3) The population of "known space" at the end of the RoM was around 1000 
>>   billion people (per a rough count of the Sector population as per "First 
>>   Survey")  --
>
>Wait a minute. I thought _First Survey_ detailed things the way they are in
>the Year 0? That's 1500 years after the _fall_ of the RoM, enough time for 
>a population to grow about a million times (assuming a doubling of the 
>population every 75 years, something quite possible according to TNE rules). 
>In short, conditions in Year 0 is not very helpful when it comes to proving
>anything about conditions at the end of the RoM, much less before and at the
>beginning of the RoM, which is the time we're really dealing with.

Read the rest, I'm extrapolating back from FS figures. And, yes, population
could have expanded geometrically, but, historically, it hasn't ... and it tends
to balance out between societies that have large families and those that have
small ones.

Unless you are suggesting that the Terrans of the beginning of the Interstellar
Wars, presumably with c. 5-10 billion population based on current trends all on
one planet actually *outnumbered* the *entire* population of the ZS at that
time!

Extrapolating back to somewhere around 100-500 billion is exceedingly reasonable
as far as I can see it!

>>4) The Plague of Duskir killed around 1 billion people before a "cure" was
>>discovered, and was widely (though it is never explained *how* widely) spread
>>through the Ziru Sirka.
>
>Not quite. The plagues caused by Vilani encounters with Terran pathogens, of
>which the PoD was the most famous, caused over a billion deaths (which means
>more than a billion and propably considerably less than 2 billion, but IMO
>'over a billion' could mean something close to 1.5 billion (native English
>speakers correct me if I'm wrong).

OK, so the death rate doubles from less than 1% to somewhere between less than
1% and something less than 2%. This is only just barely equal to the Spanish
Flu.

>>Fact 6) The Spanish Flu, *the* most lethal plague known to mankind 
>>throughout recorded history, killed around 20 million of the planetary 
>>population in 1918... 20 million out of around 1.2 billion, or about 1.6%!
>
>But not, of course, 1.6% of those directly affected.

Exactly! That's what I'm trying to get through! On *SOME* US troopships sent to
Europe the rate was in excess of 30% dead and (IIRC) 60% long term
convalescents. Still, it didn't stop the US sending off enough troops to get
most through *and*, of course, it isn't widely known even amongst historians of
the period today ... let alone being as widely known as the PoD is!

>>Fact 7) Most people today would be completely unaware of either a) the 
>>existence of the Spanish Flu or, b) its relative or absolute lethality.
>
>True, but irrelevant. The general knowledge of the Spanish Flu and any
>other plague has little to do with how lethal it was. If the PoD did no
>more than change the demographical composition of a dozen worlds close
>to Terra then it would have earned atleast a footnote in the history books.

And, ergo, known only to a handful of historians. I can assure you that after 27
years of studying the WW1 period on and off at senior High School, Graduate
University, or Postrgraduate University level -- as well as teaching it on and
off to senior HS students for much of that time, while I was aware of the
Spanish Flu, it was *only* because of what my Father and Grandfather had told me
about it ... *not* because of any coverage it gets in standard texts on the war.
In many it is not even a footnote.

>>Now, it seems that we really have several options that, regardless of which 
>>you pick, contradict some of the elements that people claim are "canon"... 
>>in other words, canon is *going* to be contradicted, no matter which you 
>>choose. These options are --
>> 
>>1)  Vilani immune systems were 99% effective vs. Terran diseases -- 
>
>Let's go with the 99% survival rate. It is close enough to the one I 
>consider the most likely one that I won't quibble about it. Which means
>that:
>
>1% of the total Vilani population died.
>An unknown percentage of them were infected but survived on their own.
>An unknown percentage of them were infected but saved by the Terrans.
>An unknown percentage of them were immunized before they were infected.
>An unknown percentage of them were not exposed to infection.
>The 1% is an average, which almost guarantees that the  figure is higher
>for some planets and lower for other planets.   

I have no objection at all to this

>The figure may or may not represent deaths in the Plague of Duskir alone,
>so the deaths from first and third stage plagues may or may not be included. 
>
>Which means that we really can't say anything at all about the Vilani
>immune systems just based on that one figure.

But you have claimed --

>Not quite. The plagues caused by Vilani encounters with Terran pathogens, of
>which the PoD was the most famous, caused over a billion deaths (which means
>more than a billion and propably considerably less than 2 billion, but IMO
>'over a billion' could mean something close to 1.5 billion (native English
>speakers correct me if I'm wrong).

that the death rate from *all* the pathogens was somewhere between 1-2 billion.
How sure are you of your facts? In one paragraph you're saying one thing and two
or three paragraphs later you are ignoring it!

>>2)Terran precautions, based on the long term contacts that the Interstellar 
>>Wars represent, to minimise the impact of Terran diseases on a basically 
>>defenceless Vilani populace (and non-Vilani minor races would be equally 
>>vulnerable for reasons that have also been canvassed) must have been 
>>almost completely successful. After all, 99% or more of the populace of 
>>the Ziru Sirka survived unaffected by any diseases.
>
>Absolutely true, except for the bit about being unaffected. Just because
>they survived dosen't mean they were unaffected. _On the average_ the
>Terran help must have been pretty damn effective. That dosen't mean they
>didn't fail spectacularily in some instances.

Sure, but, like the effects of the Spanish Flu some eighty years later, it would
be forgotten in the general run of history -- an obscure footnote to an obscure
period. The importance attached to the PoD in Library Data implies all sorts of
hidden agendas!

>>3) The PoD was basically a beat-up. The fact that it appears only in Solomani
>>and Aslan *and* is mentioned by "the authors" is, I would contend, immaterial
>>here. 
>
>No indeed. It is very much material. If it had just been the Library Data 
>entry in TD#10 and the essay in _S&A_, then the only indisputable canonical
>fact would be that in 1100 a lot of people believed in the PoD, which might
>mean much or little. In that case, in fact, your theory would be just as
>valid as the orthodox view (But, and I wish to emphasize this, not any more 
>valid than the orthodox view; your theory might be true, but there would
>still be no real reason why it should be). But since we have an autorial
>statement about the PoD, that is no longer the case.  

Well, actually, does the fact that the PoD is mentioned in "Library Data" mean
that it is believed by "a lot of people"? Perhaps it is an obscure footnote that
is simply mentioned in passing in most of the "real" Library Data, but which has
been mentioned here for "local colour".

Anyway, remember that the Library Data of the MTrav period was manipulated by
Norris for his own ends! What could *Norris's* reason be for giving prominence
to such an obscure and debatable factoid? I would suggest that Norris probably
has some reason of his own -- perhaps to keep the Zho's scared off ... they look
longingly at taking the Marches during the chaos of the Civil War, but are
warned off by the subtle mention of a terrible Terran-originated Biowar weapon?
Seems like that is as good an explanation as any, and better than assuming some
of what i consider to be the ridiculous aspects of the PoD ... Norris has an
ulterior motive and has more or less created it out of whole cloth!

>>We *know* that less than 1% of the pre RoM populace of the ZS died, and we 
>>are *told* that some *Vilani* scientists came up with a cure for the PoD. 
>>Since we are *also* told that the Vilani medical tech was so poor, this 
>>seems unlikely -- so, for a person who wants minimal changes to canon, it 
>>seems that we would have to suspect that the story of who discovered the 
>>"cure" for a disease (and we are actually  told that it was a constellation 
>>of unrelated diseases) that he had no experience with, and using technology 
>>that he had no previous knowledge of or access to must be just *possibly* a 
>>disinformation effort. It makes a lot more sense than believing that some 
>>Vilani dude came up with the solution!
>
>IIRC Duskir is supposed to have used Terran texts. Unlikely is not the same
>as impossible, so the minimal change to canon is to leave it at that: An
>unlikely, but nevertheless true, historical event. If it pleases you to
>believe that Duskir didn't do it, feel free; it is "only" mentioned in the
>1100 data, and may therefore be untrue. I guess the first authorized
>Traveller author to write about that aspect of the RoM is free to chose.

Or it is just as likely to believe that Norris is doing it all for his own
reasons.
 
>>No, the *logical* solution has to be that the PoD was a minor event that  has
>>been given a going over and has been blown out of all proportion by *someone*
>>for their own purposes; purposes that have nothing to do with "reality", but
>>with the *manipulation* of reality.
>> 
>>Who could be behind such a campaign?
>> 
>>Given the primary source of info on the PoD and its alleged curer is in 
>>Solomani and Aslan, 
>
>It was also in the (presumably Imperial) Library Data in TD#10. Check Mark
>Seemann's Traveller pages for the whole entry.

But we know that MTrav era Library Data is suspect, due to manipulation by
Norris.

>>Lets look at them.
>> 
>>a) Why would the Solomani do it? There seems, on the face of it, to be more 
>>that they would risk than gain. Possibly, though, it was for internal 
>>political consumption to make a point about how ruthless they were in the 
>>"good old days" and being aimed to prepare the people for some truly 
>>ruthless and despicable move against the 3I. Gven what we know of the 
>>Solomani party, it seems possible.
>
>The story essentially goes: "When we  conquered the Vilani we accidentally
>infected them with dreadful diseases, but mostofthem survived. Some planets
>were heavily depopulatedso that we became the majority on them, but that
>wasn't something we did deliberately, it was an unfortunate accident.
>
>What could be the Solomani's reason to tell this story? 1) It's the truth
>and it dosen't harm our present agenda, or 2) it's covering up something
>worse.

Yep, and (2) seems most likely. (1) is clearly ridiculous given the length of
pre-collapse contact and preparation time.
   
Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:45:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc.

In mail you write:

> I have discovered a cache of old Dragon and similar magazines, dating 
> waaaaay back. Rather than dig through endless turgid cr*p detailing the 
> sexual habits of purple ringed dragon-ferrets, I'd like some kind soul to 
> tell me what issues contained Traveller-related material that is worth 
> salvaging from the grasps of D&D munchkins. 

Luckily, I just unearthed some *old* gaming notes:

Asimov Cluster				p20-1,25	TD20
The Traveller Navy Wants to Join You	p20-1		TD25
Tesseracts: A Traveller Artifact	p16		TD27
Star System Generation			p18		TD27
The Traveller Politician		p24-5		TD32
IBIS: Profit & Peril			p7		TD35
Useful Skills				p8,41,45	TD35
The Other Options			p9		TD35
More Clout for Scouts			P10,44-5	TD35

I quit making this sort of index around issue 37 of the Dragon, so I
can't help on later stuff.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 02:02:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832

In mail you write:

> To all those who have raised concerns about the issues in Jerry
> Pournelle's "A Step Further Out", you might be interested in:
>
> http://www.abcnews.com:80/sections/scitech/astrogold0909/index.html
>
> My personal opinion is that "A step further out" is a little overdramatic
> in its doomsaying, and failed to predict (and take into account) the trend
> that energy consumption per capita is decreasing across the first world.
>
> Also, people discussing the T2K scenario of post-nuke America might like
> to read "Warday" by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka.  An interesting
> documentary style report of the state of the union 10 (?) years after a
> _very_ limited war between the US and the USSR.  IIRC, Washington/NY, the
> Dakotas and an AirForce base near San Antonio (?) were the only targets.
> Japs and Brits run the world...

Folks have already mentioned "The Third World War" by Gen. Hackket.
There's also a sequel running around. I have it, but it's in storage.

Dean Ing wrote a series of three books that start with the above
"history" as background and go on with some more fighting and sneak
attacks etc. The first book is "Systemic Shock". I can't recall the
titles of the other two right now.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:29:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Low and high gravity humans

In mail you write:

> Low g humans, on the other hand, would have a different set of problems. 
> Large muscles would still have strength benefits, but it would be 
> less difficult to carry them around. Obesity would be less of a 
> disability, since fat would weigh a lot less too. 
>
> I would expect low-g humans to appear quite plump, both because they 
> couldn't be bothered to lose that extra flab they've acquired from the 
> small amount of exercise they get in their day-to-day life, and because 
> of fluid retention that seems to plague persons in low-g environments (eg 
> Mir). 

However, studies are showing that excess body fat carried around the
waist (as opposed to on the legs or buttocks) is not good for you, and
it isn't because of the extra mass. 

So extreme obesity is still going to cause heart trouble, even on low-g
worlds. 

BTW, it's not so much fluid *retention* as it is fluid redistribution.
In lower g (or during prolonged confinement to bed) fluids no longer
accumulate in the lower body, they tend to distribute more evenly. This
leads to things like stuffy noses and heads. It also leads to fluid
*loss* as the body's regulator for fluid content is in the head, so it
gets rid of what it *thinks* is "excess" fluid. So you actually wind up
with *less* fluid (Shuttle astronauts lose a couple of liters over the
course of the first couple of days, and drink like fish when they get
back to gravity!)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:01:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Guns and explosives inside a starship (Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia)

In mail you write:

> Well, I was all ready to refute you on a scientific basis that high
> temperatures must cause a problem.  Fortunately I decided to check my
> sources (since there is an experimental fusion reactor within 200 feet of
> me and I work with Fusion Scientists).   It seems Leonard is right.  If we
> take our current reactor science as a prototype, then breaching a fusion
> reactor at temp will cause the atmosphere in the room to rush *into* the
> reactor chamber, which is held at a partial vacuum (.1 atm) while running.
> The few paltry particles in there will not release a tremendous amount of
> heat energy, because they apparently radiate in the wrong frequencies to
> create a lot of heat.  (not that the last sentance does not make a lot of
> sense to me so don't try tomake me explain it).

It's like this. Object radiate energy that depends on their
temperature. There's a spread of wavelength, but with a *very*
pronounced "peak". 

At 3 K, the radiation peaks in the microwave band. At 800 K it peaks in
the red area of the visible spectrum (red-hot). At 6000 K, it peaks in
the yellow  (surface of the sun). At a few million K, it peaks well
into the gamma ray range, and the IR component is essentially nil.

> The only other recourse I can think of off the top of my head is the
> opposite.  Since there is Liquid Hydrogen flowing in and around the reactor
> perhaps it would be more appropriate to *freeze* the characters as they are
> bathed in L-Hyd vapors.

It's happened in games. Some idiot manages to breach the main L-Hyd
feed line and quick freezes everybody in the compartment. The automatic
safeties cut the flow, and seal the hatch. After the crew killed the
boarders in the rest of the ship, they carefully opened the hatch (the
automatic systems have purged the hydrogen from the air in the
compartment by then). They see a bunch of frozen statues, with a nice
coating of ice. One player poked at one of them, and it fell over and
*shattered*. He got assigned cleanup detail for that stupid move.
 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 00:28:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Note: the above is assuming that the Zilans *are* native, or that their
>> ancestors came to the planet long enough ago (millienia at least!) for
>> them to be adapted to the planet. If it's a colony that's only been
>> there a few generations, then they are *potentially* just as strong as
>> the players. But it may take them years of hard work to "adapt" to
>> normal gravity.
>
>
> Hmmm.  The Spinward Marches was settled in the 600's.  My campaign is
> currently in 1105.  That means that the Zilan natives have only been
> there for 500 years.
>
> So, you are saying that Zilan natives will be just like my PCs who are
> going there?
>

Not exactly. They will still have the *potential* to be as strong as
the players. Just like you or I had the potential to build our bodies
to match Arnold Schawrzenagger. But in both cases it'd take a lot of
*hard* work to reach that potential.

Also, since things still have the same *mass* even though they weigh
less, that means that it's just as hard to push or pull something. So
they won't be utter weaklings, just "wimps".

> Now, I'm stuck with a sci-fi planet that has really low grav.  That's
> OK, except I'm not sure how these people ever leave their planet.
>
> And, there are several planets like this in the Imperium.  Communities
> in space stations and on moons I can handwave away by saying that the
> facility they are in have tuned grav plates to 1G.  But, of all these
> low tech worlds--especially the ones who have breathable atmospheres
> and, thus, aren't always inside a faciltiy, these people are getting
> pretty used to the gravity pull of the world.
>
> If it is such a problem for humans to live here, then why was the place
> settled 500 years ago in the first place!

It's *not* a problem to live there. It's going to someplace with higher
gravity that's a pain. Think of it as being like visting Peru. You'll
need a *lot* of acclimitization before you can move around without
being short of breath. But you can do it. You won't be as good as the
folks born there, but you can survive. Or at least many folks can. Some
*can't* adjust.

> I need a handwave, a head thought, something to feel better about this.

The folks who live there, like 99.9% of the people on *most* planets,
never leave the place. The few who do, have worked long and hard to get
ready for it (Think of how you'd feel about visting a 2g world).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:46:57 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832

At 02:02 AM 9/16/97 PST, you wrote:
>In mail you write:

>> Also, people discussing the T2K scenario of post-nuke America might like
>> to read "Warday" by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka.  An interesting
>> documentary style report of the state of the union 10 (?) years after a
>> _very_ limited war between the US and the USSR.  IIRC, Washington/NY, the
>> Dakotas and an AirForce base near San Antonio (?) were the only targets.
>> Japs and Brits run the world...

>Folks have already mentioned "The Third World War" by Gen. Hackket.
>There's also a sequel running around. I have it, but it's in storage.

Third World War was basically Hackket's plee to change NATO, and the
nuclear exchange is basically a dias ex machina <sp> to end the book
(from what I remember only Minsk and Birmimham get nuked).

>Dean Ing wrote a series of three books that start with the above
>"history" as background and go on with some more fighting and sneak
>attacks etc. The first book is "Systemic Shock". I can't recall the
>titles of the other two right now.

One excellant book on a post nuke world is of course David Brin's "The
Postman", I'm suprised nobodies mentioned it before (p'haps its cos of
GURPS: uplift wars :*) ). Not only is it a darn good read, but it
provides an excellant backdrop and future timeline for a T2K world.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:32:26 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Bad guys from the Core?

Kenji wrote:

>
>>>       However, the Solomani took one look at the Spofulams and decided
>>>that they were a massive menace to Solomani species purity, morality, and
>>>society, not to mention civilization as a whole, so the Spofulams built a
>>>fleet of huge asteroid-hulled colony ships, moved the family, the
>>>corporate assets and their shipyard and industrial tooling on board, and
>>>headed for the Galactic core...
>
>Alas!  Woe!  I was starting to hope that, as the Imperium expanded, Famille
>Spofulam might set up a subsidiary among the Sayat to produce hm, how to
>describe it, adult military novelties?  I can see the advertising slogans
>now:  "We Put the Packing Back in Packing!"
>


	Yikes :).  That sounds really, um, painful...  One can just
visualize the looks of horror of customers on both sides of an inadvertent
mislabelling mishap...

	Could lead to entire units getting disbanded over rumours of sexual
depravity following desperate last stands: "They repelled that Zhodani
Consular Guard unit hand to hand using _*WHAT*_?!".

	And as far as the Zho are concerned, just imagine what they'd start
thinking of the 3I after that little incident; add unspeakable perversity
to mendacity, deviousness, and sociopathy...

	But since Marc seems to be positioning T4 as wholesome family
entertainment, let's just stop there before FS starts deciding to improve
on foot-long prehensile... oh, let's just not go there, shall we :)?

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:54:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!

>You are misinformed if you think a single Patriot hit a single SCUD.
>L8R
>Ken

  Yes, the Patriots were _wildly_ innacurate (having an official hit
percentage of 20%, but in reality closer to 10%).  But, you're partially
right.  It was never a single patriot that got sent up to hit the SCUDS, they
were sent up in pairs.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:59:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!

You wrote: 
>
>You are misinformed if you think a single Patriot hit a single SCUD.

As far as physical impact, you're right.

The damn things are equipped with. . . .proximity fuzes.

But the SCUD's only effectiveness was as a psychological weapon.  The 
Patriot was 100% effective in countering the psychological threat.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:11:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: Fighter Quality

> 
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:38:53 -0700
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
> Subject: Re:Berry
> 
> Ah, sweet arrogance.  We've now learned that the Soviets are better pilots
> than we thought.  We've now had the chance to train with them.  They, and
> their planes (esp. the MiG-29, -31, and Su-27) are of equal quality to the
> F-15 Eagle.

   Not quite true - the Mig-29 and the Su-27 (the Mig-31 doesn't even
qualify) are _almost_ as good as the F-15. 

   The analog FBW systems aren't as clean, and they still use primitive
analog instrumentation (no MFDs); so they don't compete with more modern
fighters like the F-16 and the F-18.

   In fact, we've been discussing this on the air.power list; their have
been recent unclass accounts of american F-16s meeting up with east german
Mig-29s surfacing in various periodicals and "trade" journals. The
consensus is the F-16 can easily outperform and outfight the Mig-29 (at
least as american vs. east german pilots are concerned, anyways) _despite_
a theoretical performance advantage on the part of the Mig-29. (I'll give
you a clue why this is so; which fighter do you think should win? The
unstable FBW design, or the "conventional" design?)


- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:57:09 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Vilani & Plagues

You know, Phillip, strange as it may seem, you and I appear to be pretty
much in agreement about the Plague of Duskir when it comes down to it.
Except for one thing, and I think that is actually the whole problem.

First the agreements:

Phillip McGregor writes:
>>>>From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>>First of all; I know the canon sources you are referring too as to the die
>>back of the PoD. To put it simply, I think these are way too low (ie I think
>>canon is wrong). Given the nature of the problem, a die back of 10% to 30%
>>is not unreasonable. The only way for this to be avoided would be a massive
> 
>Yes, a 10-30% die back may not be "unreasonable" -- but it isn't canon! In 
>fact, the figures that we have directly contradict it!

OK, so perhaps we don't agree 100%. But the strange thing is that you don't
agree with yourself here. Just below you explain why a 10-30% death rate
dosen't have to mean that 10-30% dies. But in that case the canonical 1.5%
death rate is _not_ inherently contradictory.

>However, you are making an assumption that is unwarranted -- or, at least,
>*perhaps* unwarranted. And that is, quite simply, that 100% of the Vilani
>populace of the ZS will be exposed to the diseases. 

Precisely. In addition, not all those who get ill and would have died without
help would not get help (I hope that sentense makes sense ;-). 

>I know its a stretch, but surely there is a good case to understand that 
>just because a Vilani would have close to a 30% chance of dying in the face 
>of infection by a Terran virus or bacteria, this doesn't mean that 30% of 
>Vilani would die! Only 30% of those infected.

Not even that. I don't believe that the Terran doctors could save all who
got infected, but surely they would be able to save some. In fact, that
too is mentioned in the TD#20 article.
 
>In other words, perhaps the PoD *did* have a 30% kill rate -- but only 
>managed to infect and kill less than 1% of the populace of the ZS?

Or 1.5%, but let's not quibble about that ;-).

>>Yep, they all lack the helper T cells. But this is not the major problem
>>for the Vilani. What is the killer for the Vilani is the degeneration of
>>their immune system due to evolving in a sterile environment. As far as we
>>can tell, the other minor races did not evolve in environments completely
>>free from the risk of infection; therefore while their immune system would
>>also have degenerated, it would not be as marked as in the Vilani.
>
>But the Vilani have, of course, been exposed to non-Vilani environments for,
>what, 3000 years before contact with Terra? 

7000 years or so. The Vilani invented jump drive in -9235.

>They would have inevitably been exposed to the dangers of those environs for 
>the very reason that they are not affected at home -- they had no concept of 
>the dangers! This means that they would have some immunity, some treatments, 
>and a good idea of quarantine.

Agreed. IMO it seems reasonable to assume that the Vilani would have an
immune system about as strong as any of their minor human subjects.
 
>According to the MTrav "Referee's Companion", Antiviral vaccinations are 
>TL10, well below the peak pre RoM TL12/13 level achieved *before* they 
>conquered the ZS.

This dosen't prove that they had found out how to make anti-viral vaccines
at the time, merely that IF they had the knowledge then they had the
technology to implement it (Think about it: It is quite possible to 
concieve of a society where lenses are known, but telescopes have not
been invented (The Earth was one such for several centuries). Such a 
society would have the TL to manufacture telescopes, but they would not
have telescopes.)

>I still reckon that there is considerable evidence to suggest that the PoD 
>was hyped out of all proportion to its actual effect(s).

And that is the one point where I still disagree violently with you. I can
find no canonical evidence that the PoD was hyped in any way. On the
contrary, the sources we have treat the plague quite low-key. THey don't
suggest that half the population of the Ziru Sirka perished or anything
else like that. The most extravagant claim it makes (in the S&A article)
is that on several planets the deaths led to the Terran immigrants 
becoming the majority. Since we don't know what planets and how many
Vilani there were on them beforehand, nor how many Terran immigrants
moved to those planets, nor just when those planets were infected (it
could have been early on, before anyone had realized the seriousness of
the problem) that dosen't really seem so unlikely.

What I think is that some of your opponents in previous discussions have
misunderstood the canonical sources and hyped it out of all proportion,
and you've been fighting that ghost ever since.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1836
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 16 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1837



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: FF&S drop tanks
Re: X-boats & couriers
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832
Re: Ship economics
Re: MT missing tables?
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Imperial Military
Re: How to get things done!
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: X-boats & couriers
Trav Econ
Re: Bad guys from the Core?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:14:23 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: FF&S drop tanks

Dom Mooney writes:
>Hans, you wrote:
> 
>>Not so much late any TL, but late historically. Which would be completely in
>>accord with canon (So far. I'm waiting for the day some M:0 author or ship
>>designer decides to use a drop tank. That _will_ be a canon breaker (Did
>>FF&S2 say anything about drop tanks, btw?)).
> 
>Only skimmed FFS2 at the moment, but the drop tanks are in, and there is no
>mention of their late deployment in the Imperium. So it is potentially a
>canon breaker.

Sigh! Well, I guess it is just a matter of time then. Drop tanks are just
too useful. All it takes is one game author who dosen't know about them
and another good way to make Milieu 0 different from Milieu 1100 goes out
the window...
 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:11:10 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: X-boats & couriers

Dom Mooney writes:
> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen  wrote:
> 
>>Unfortunately, common sense invalidates that little trick anyway. A jump-6
>>courier is expensive, but only compared to ordinary folks. A number of
>>Imperial organisations and a number of private organisations (the 14
>>Megacorporations for a start) can afford to maintain a few couriers out
>>of petty cash. Even mere sectorwide companies and the local rulers of
>>high-population planets can afford them. And getting fast and accurate
>>information from the center of the Imperium is sufficiently valuable
>>that almost all of them would have such couriers on standby. Thus while
>>even Megacorporations may be content with relying on the X-boat Network
>>for regional communication, any monumental news from Capital would go out
>>to all these organisations by jump-6. Thus the news of Strephon's death
>>would be recieved at about the same time by the Spinward Marches heads
>>of the Army, Navy, Marines, Scouts, and Civil Service, the regional
>>managers of all 14 Megacorporations, the General Manager of Al Morai and
>>I don't know how many other sector-wide companies, Duchess Delphine, the
>>Dukes of Glisten and Rhylanor, and propably several other dukes, in
>>addition to Norris.
> 
>IIRC one of the MT publications state that Lucan suppressed the news
>initially, stopping all launches from Capitol. Can't remember where I read
>that though (Reebellion Sourcebook?)

Right. I had forgotten that. But you can't stop launches from outside the
jump limit. That order might stop standby couriers and prevent the small 
(small on this scale, that is) players like Duchess Delphine and Duke 
Leonard and the sector-wide companies from getting the news right away, 
but it wouldn't stop those with courier networks (ie. those organisations
with so many resources that they can afford regular courier runs).
 
>So it is possible that only the military couriers and Imperiallines J6
>ships got out with the news in the first week. Unlikely though.

I'll conceede that, but they would still get the news far quicker than
through the X-boat network (And they'd be able to count and work out
that Norris got his patent of elevation _after_ he got the news of
Strephon's death (Incidentally, wouldn't official Imperial business go
by courier instead of by X-boat?)

Too bad really. Norris' self-elevation is a wonderful idea, but it dosen't
quite hold water (Or rather, the trick it is based on dosen't hold water.
I suppose there's no reason why Norris can't do it anyway. He just has to
realize that a lot of people will have their own thought about the matter. 
Ah well, in my Traveller universe Strephon dosen't get killed, so I couldn't 
use it anyway...
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:35:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832

You wrote: 

>>Folks have already mentioned "The Third World War" by Gen. Hackket.
>>There's also a sequel running around. I have it, but it's in storage.
>
>Third World War was basically Hackket's plee to change NATO, and the
>nuclear exchange is basically a dias ex machina <sp> to end the book
>(from what I remember only Minsk and Birmimham get nuked).

It makes a bad point (conscription?  Any society which requires mass 
peacetime involuntary conscription deserves to loose the war it's 
preparing for.  And even wartime conscription annoys me--but it's 
occasionally justified)  in a rather turgid way.  Half the plot is 
unlikely, the rest is impossible.  And it's all pedantic.  Hell, I even 
preferred the American Cheerleading [tm] style of TC's Red Storm 
Rising.  Ain't objective, but Tom can write rings around Hackett any 
day.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:39:42 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ship economics

John Macpherson writes:
>Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:
>> 
>>John Macpherson writes:
>>>(2)  Why did you choose 3% as the "fair profit" on the ship owner's 
>>>investment?  Why does his investment get a lower return than the banks?  
>> 
>>He dosen't. The 6.25% the bank gets include repayment of the loan. After
>>40 years the owner owns the ship (which will by then be worth 25% of its
>>original price, according to a TD or MTJ Q&A). I've been informed that
>>it works out at a rate of return very close to 3% (I don't know how to
>>calculate such things, so I haven't checked it myself).
> 
>	Well, I'd like to talk to whoever gave you those figures, because
>they're not at all what I get.  First of all, whether the return that the
>bank gets includes the principle is irrelevant.  The bank is purchasing a
>stream of cash flows when it makes a loan.  It puts up 80% of the ship
>price and in return gets a series of monthly payments for 40 years that
>carry a certain risk.  The rate of interest that makes the Net Present
>Value of those payments equal to zero is very close to 6%.  You can check
>this yourself using the Internal Rate of Return function in Excel.
>	Since the ship owner and the bank are investing in the same ship, 
>all of the same risk factors etc. apply, so their return should be 
>approximately the same.  

You'll have to try to explain that again, because I totally fail to
understand how this can be true. The bank invests a sum of money and 
gets 6.25% per year for 40 years, at the end of which they own nothing
more than the money they have gotten back. In short, after 40 years they 
have recieved 2.5 times their original investment.

The owner, OTOH, invests a sum of money and gets, according to you,
6.25% per year for 40 years, at the end of which he is the sole owner
of something that is worth about 100-125% of his original investment.
In short, after 40 years he has recieved about 3.5-3.75 times his original
investment. How can the two rates of return possibly be equivalent?


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:05:16 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: MT missing tables?

Jory M. Earl wrote:
> 

> You also won't find the errata on RAM grenades.  I had to call GDW for
> that info.

And have you made this errata available somewhere? 

:-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:53:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 SemoFetus@aol.com wrote:

> >In Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion books, all of the Legion's 
> >computor-controlled equipment (and that's a lot of things, down to the 
> >individual radios) had their 'software' permenantly engraved on 
> >synthetic diamond disks they referred to as 'WORM-Write Once, Read 
> >Many' memory.  Couldn't reprogram it, but is pretty secure from any 
> >sort of tampering.
> 
> We have the same thing today without the synthetic diamond, its called
> "CD-ROM" :)

Not only that, but we could put a diamond coating on it as well, and at
the markups that record companies get for CD's, they could be sold that
way with no increase in cost :-/


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:45:18 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Jory M. Earl wrote

> John Atkinson wrote:
> 
> > You wrote:
> >
> > In Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion books, all of the Legion's
> > computor-controlled equipment (and that's a lot of things, down to the
> > individual radios) had their 'software' permenantly engraved on
> > synthetic diamond disks they referred to as 'WORM-Write Once, Read
> > Many' memory.  Couldn't reprogram it, but is pretty secure from any
> > sort of tampering.  I'd think a lot of things on a starship (say, like
> > the reactor control program or the autopilot) that don't need
> > reprogrammed would be on this basis to prevent tampering.
> >
> > John M. Atkinson
> 
> Well if Dr. Pournelle came up with the idea, it's a good bet it's a sound
> one.  He's an extremely intelligent man with multiple PHD's in various
> fields.

Oh, hell, not to interrupt the Jerry Pournelle love-fest, but a) he is
smart, and learned long ago that the best way to look _really_ smart is to
find people who know more about a subject than you and ask them ;-) and b)
I believe he has _one_ PhD, but a polymath temperament, who long ago also
discovered the secret to a fun life...become a successful author. That way
_ANYTHING_ you do can be classified as "research". (Including those 15
hour marathons of Wing Commander and the like ;-)

He didn't come up with the WORM drive concept, merely adapted it from his
RL experience. IIRC, the Falkenberg Legion books where he explained the
software was about the time he got one of the first generation WORM drives
himself, and proceeded to rave about them for years in his Byte column. 


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


> 
> 
> --
>                               The J-Man
>                              GOC Systems
>                            j-man@iname.com
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:29:32 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Imperial Military

At 06:44 PM 9/15/97 -0700, Douglas wrote:

>I've struggled with this aspect of the game for a while, so I would like
>some input.  I've a couple of theories...
>
>  Each planet is responsible for contributing towards Sector (Imperial)
>and SubSector (Colonial) units.  Imperial personell are primarily drawn
>from the hi-tech worlds in a subsector (easier and cheaper to train them
>to the appropriate levels), while experienced non-comms and officers from
>the Colonial units may transfer up.

This is how I see the Navy and Marines being staffed.

>  - or -
>
>  Each planet contributes to the construction, maintenance and manning of
>military units in keeping with it's economic potential.  These units, once
>manned, are 'Imperialized', and will serve a set term at the discretion of
>the Sector Military structure (made up of Imperial Nobles).  Once the term
>of service is complete, the unit is returned to the individual worlds for
>such maintenance and recruiting of personnel as required before it's next
>period of service.  

This is exactly my vision for the Army.  Since each subsector faces a
different defense situation, the Imperium provides funding to equip local
units to Imperial standards, and those units are subject to off-world duty.

This works pretty well, IMHO, since the local world gets improved defenses
at a discount, the locals get some good hi-tech experience, and the
Imperium has good units stashed on almost every planet.

>With the first method, personnel would be scattered, which would prevent
>the possibility interworld politics spilling over into the Imperial
>Military at more than a personal level.  (Imagine this "From the TNS - the
>crew of the Dreadnaught ISS Tigress mutinied today in response to economic
>sanctions on their world by...)  However, it does present the problem of
>getting these millions of individuals back to their homes of record - no
>small cost that!

Well, now we know what all those High and Mid passages were for...  I
wasn't thunk so much about the scale of entire battleships suffering
mutinies, but the more basic level.. Back when I was in, the had to
seperate me and a soldier form Dallas when we were roomates.  Seems putting
a Cowboys fan and a 493r Faithful in the same room was a mistake during
football season...

I wrote up a description of how the Army is staffed, funded, and organized
a while ago.. if anyone is interested, I could repost it.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:11:36 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: How to get things done!

>What about using ground-based lasers to lift small cargo ship into low earth
>orbit?

That's not being pursued actively at the same level of interest as the SSTO/
TSTO designs...Plausible laser launch systems tend to be capable of 
getting about 50 kg payloads into LEO; gun-type launch systems (bigger 
versions of livermore's SHARP gun) have similar capabilities. There's no
demonstrated market for 50kg satellites sufficiently large to pay off the
big capital costs of setting up such a system. 

Personally, I find the guns more plausible than the lasers - but maybe that's
because I spend much time working with people here at LLNL who do big laser
stuff, so I have some idea of the difficulties involved. 

In traveller terms, gas guns, laser launch systems (and more exotic things
like big mass drivers and beanstalks) are all the sort of thing you develop
on an early TL-9 world before you have gravitics - there's a very narrow
technological window before they're all obsolete (probably too narrow for
any world to ever build a beanstalk.) Still, a TL-9- world might have a 
substantial laser launch system in place...maybe good enough to put several
hundred kg payloads into orbit, or even small ships (Traveller lasers are
better than real-world lasers.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:30:02 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

At 09:54 PM 9/15/97 -0600, Leroy wrote:
>I have briefly scanned the responses on this thread since my post, and I only
>have a few comments.

General note: just using information from a domain expert does not prevent
the ref from being wrong, unfortunately.  There is usually a second step
that players may take, but that the ref will not be able to handle because
of a lack of experience.  For a dramatic example of that, watch a group of
grunts playing with a REMF ref some time.  Or worse, a non military ref.
As soon as combat comes up, they know a lot more about it than the ref, and
argue from experience.  The best combat system in the world will not help
then.

I and my players are all computer adept, and so tend to treat them as
analog computers.  Hard to program, hard to adapt, but very, very fast for
certain tasks.

>  2) You can load all the fractal-based "phage" programs up on any UNIX box
>     I have 'su' on, and I guarantee that I'll find a way of stopping it from
>     doing what the referee mentioned, wanted to prevent.  Of course, I am
>     _known_ for getting 'su' on boxes I can't even log on to. :)

Your experience with current Unix systems notwithstanding, security is not
a fundamentally tough problem, if the system is stable.  Today, though, it
_is_  tough.  When the systems become stable, such that they do not change
in fundamental architecture or software for several hundred years, then the
security holes you were exploiting are far more likely to be closed.

Consider that your experience is based on a time when the machines are
changing at a fantastic rate - a doubling in speed every 2 years or less,
and thus a corresponding expansion in the capabilities people want out of
their systems.  As a result, it is very unlikely that there has been time
to figure out the impact of even adding a new server to a system.

It would not be too hard to come up with a physical key which could prevent
piracy, hacking, and a thousand other ideas fairly easily, if the program
was never in physical memory, and the package was designed to be more
expensive to break than the cost of a copy of a new program..  If there is
a physical object which must be placed in the computer system, and which
the system will not function without, you are SOL, regardless of privs.

>  3) Copy "protection" is a bogus thing of the past.  It is too effective,
>     and since it is generally a free market, those without site licensing
>     schemes lose out to companies that have better, less hassled systems
>     for keeping managers out of the piracy zone.  Those same managers and
>     companies cause us system admins a lot of problems through these 
>     techniques, and I guarantee you that _we_ find ways around them.

Not at all, not at all.

I find copy protection loathsome, and wish it would die, but I am forced to
feel that it is going to be with us whenever the systems change slowly.
Consider - recent Vaxen distribute all of the DEC software on the CD ROM,
encrypted with a key that includes the physical serial number of the
machine, which is very hard to change.  Installing that software without
the right key is very difficult, and copying it is not terribly easy.  It
can be done, but DEC figured that was easy enough to just sue the hell out
of someone with.

Once the rate of change slows, we are going to see CP come back.  It is
unpopular now because the machines change fast enough that software broke
regularly.

Note: as with all things, it is never possible to make unbreakable
security, just security which would take more time or expertise to break
than the person with she skills to do so wants to spend.  If there is
substantial legal cost as well, the market gets a bit dicey.

As a result of your post, and my resultant thought about it, I have made a
rules change.  In my universe, the versions, vendors, and keys of the
software on a ship is stored when you hit port.  If the vendor has asked
and paid for the service, those numbers are sent back to them, all without
the knowledge of the players.  This works in the early 3I, because there
are not that many high tech ports.  By the end of the 3I, I suspect the
burden would get unreasonable, and so the practice stopped.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats & couriers

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> Dom Mooney writes:
> > From: Hans Rancke-Madsen  wrote:
> > 
> >>Unfortunately, common sense invalidates that little trick anyway. A jump-6
> >>courier is expensive, but only compared to ordinary folks. A number of
> >>Imperial organisations and a number of private organisations (the 14
> >>Megacorporations for a start) can afford to maintain a few couriers out
> >>of petty cash. Even mere sectorwide companies and the local rulers of
> >>high-population planets can afford them. And getting fast and accurate
> >>information from the center of the Imperium is sufficiently valuable
> >>that almost all of them would have such couriers on standby. Thus while
> >>even Megacorporations may be content with relying on the X-boat Network
> >>for regional communication, any monumental news from Capital would go out
> >>to all these organisations by jump-6. Thus the news of Strephon's death
> >>would be recieved at about the same time by the Spinward Marches heads
> >>of the Army, Navy, Marines, Scouts, and Civil Service, the regional
> >>managers of all 14 Megacorporations, the General Manager of Al Morai and
> >>I don't know how many other sector-wide companies, Duchess Delphine, the
> >>Dukes of Glisten and Rhylanor, and propably several other dukes, in
> >>addition to Norris.

I would tend to disagree with this.  How many decisions a year will the
Emperor make that will effect a Megacorporation a Sector or more away?
Are you going to keep a staff pilot and ship standing by year round on the
off chance something may happen?  And don't forget, the pilot will have to
have the liquid assets to pay for fuel for any such trip (incidental, but
it adds up).  Also, what happens if *another* decision is made while the
first pilot is making the round trip to MC HQ?  Or while the ship is going
through maintenance?  How many couriers do you keep in orbit?  Then, of
course, there is orbital/field fees...  And, of course, the Emperor may
just get annoyed at all the ships cluttering his view of his Empire...

Then, of course, there are the ships themselves.  J6 ships (TL 15 by
definition) can only be produced at a relatively few shipyards.  They are
expensive, and haven't a shot in hell of recouping the cost.  While it
makes sense that a major corporation would have a presence on Sylea to
promote it's interests, and assuming one or more ships were available, how
could they be best put to use?  

For example, there is a regulation that stifles a minor part of your trade
coming up for review, and by the way, Trade Minister Vlea's wife has
always wanted to visit the third moon of...  Now, there is that lovely,
hi-tech ship just sitting out there, and that lazy pilot earning his
CrImp 6,000/month sitting in the lounge and this regulation will cost the
Corp MC1 or more per year - what do you do?  

For example, you are the vice president in charge of the Core Sector and,
in addition to all your other duties, you need to meet with some
government officials on some backwater world 12 parsecs away.  Well, with
the courier, that's only 2 weeks of travel time...

Finally, there is the matter of actually basing them at Sylea.  You can
only stick so many ships in orbit before things start to happen, and Sylea
will have a lot of traffic to begin with.  And I wasn't kidding about the
Emperor getting annoyed, that will cost CREDIT!  For the local
Corporations, there will be bases around Capital, and for Corporations
outside the sector...well, that's one way for a local corp to make some
extra credit!   Why station an expensive J6 courier at what has to be the
most expensive orbit in the Empire, when just J4 away you have reciprical
basing rights with Brand-X Corp?  

IMHO, only the Domains will have high jump ships based at Sylea (the
closer to Capital, the less need for a J6 ship, tho).  Perhaps a *few* of
the MegaCorps that have strong ties to capital may have them based around
Sylea, but again - if you are paying for these ships, you are going to
want to get whatever value you can from them. Cost would be the driving
factor.  The only real reason to have a truely independant courier system
from the Empire is if you expect not to be able to use the system that has
been in place and reliable for 1000 years...

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:13:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Trav Econ

Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au> said:
> The key to it is if buisinesses maximize profits, then if they *can* raise
> prices, they do. Rising real wages would therefore leave prices at the
> level they would otherwise have reached (becasue if businesses maximize
> profits, if they can raise prices without losing net revenue by lost sales,
> they do raise prices, and if they cant they dont). It may have effects on
> the rate of profit or on output (as businesses go broke due to higher wage
> costs), but it wont have effects on prices.

	Right.  I'm familiar with the argument.  My problem with it is 
that it is too stylized. Businesses intend to maximize profits, but they 
don't have the perfect information that economic models of firms assume.  
Businesses work much closer to a "stimulus-response" kind of mode where 
if certain strategies or behaviors are rewarded by the marketplace they 
expand them.  All that is to say that I think there is plenty of 
uncertainty and potential for non-optimal behavior in the system.
	As far as the argument you outlined above, if the firm is in a 
perfectly competitive market for inputs and outputs, and the demand for 
labor inputs rise, driving the price up, the firm has no choice but to 
pass this cost on to its customers since it must price at MC=Price.  
Since all firms in this output market face the same input market, they 
all raise prices symmetrically.

> Of course, if businesses act by aiming at a target rate of profits, and
> then slacking off when they get there, we are in a swamp without a map,
> and any damn thing can happen.

	Break out your paddle because, IMHO, we're in the swamp.  
Corporate America has become very good at using incentive schemes to come 
closer to profit maximization (at least in the short-run) but most people 
are employed by small businesses which probably still fall far short on 
this mark.

> (PS if other people can geek about American gingoism and T2000, we can
> geek about High Theory *grin* BTW, do you think the current US boom is
> due to tech change [the payoff from all that investment in PCs] or part
> of a Ponzi scheme based on the wealth affect from rising stock prices
> boosting consumption, which keeps output high and boosts profits, thus
> helping raise stock prices ?)

	The real productivity gains can't be over-looked.  As far as 
anyone can tell they are legitimate.  And really, it's about time.  Labor 
productivity growth was stagnate for almost the last 20 years in the 
U.S.  
	I don't know how much of the profits from stock speculation have
recycled back into the economy to fuel the boom.  I haven't looked at the
numbers in any detail, but I understand that far more money is flowing
into the market than flowing out.  That's not to say that the market
itself hasn't been floating on a speculative bubble, but it's not clear 
that it has spread to the rest of the economy.

I said:
> >	Historically there were ships that operated as something like 
> >Free Traders, but they relied on unorganized buyers and sellers on both 
> >ends and significant transactional hazards.  With both ends of the 
> >transaction under the Imperial legal and financial umbrella, arranging 
> >trades directly without the middle-man of the Free Trader shouldn't be 
> >too difficult.

Ian said:
> Not quite true. I'd need to check my sources (the best one a shipping 
> register for one of the Dutch ports for ships to and from the East Indies 
> between about 1600 and about 1700 ... it's in Dutch, which is liveable, 
> and 250 miles away in Sydney, which isnt), but Free Traders as we know and
> love had a pretty big presence ... from memory, about half of the ships
> going to the East Indies from Holland were Jan Compagnie (the Dutch East
> Indies Company - arguably the first of the MegaCorporations), and half
> were independant efforts.

	Historically, yeah free traders mattered a lot, but that's because
there was no other way for the people on either end to trade with each
other.  Once you have regular freight service and communications (which I
assume exists in the Imperium) then there's far less need to do business
this way.  When new areas of trade are opened (like the Dutch East Indies
or a similarly rich new region in M0) then there will be a shortage of
shipping that serves this region and ships captains will be able to
operate like free traders until freight service and more normal commercial
relations are established between buyers and sellers on either end that
allow them to eliminate the free trader middle-man. 

Ian said:
> Given the difference a 
> good pilot or gunner makes in most rules systems, I think skilled crew
> will be able to negotiate a lot better than a 10% per skill level bonus.
> In seriously dangerous areas, a good starship gunner could ask for up
> to 1% of the ships value per jump ... after all, one laser hit a hotshot
> gunner could have put sand in front of could cost you megacredits in
> repair bills.

	Okay, but what's the _supply_ of skilled gunners?  If it is 
small, then you're right, they probably could demand better pay.  On the 
other hand, their value depends on the probability of violent encounters 
in space.  If the IN is worth a damn, these should be few.  Heck, even a 
half-dozen SDBs can effectively control the 100-d limit of most planets.

> Secondly, to me unorganized buyers and sellers and signifigant
> transactional hazards
> sounds just like long-distance trade between centers months apart.

	That would be a good example, yeah :-)

> My view
> is that Free Traders would be involved in long-haul trade, where the lag
> time of a week in each port to find buyers is less signifigant. The
> Megacorporations
> run a blue crew/gold crew arrangement (land, refuel, load cargo, change crew, 
> leave ... I think you could cut turnaround in port to under 8 hours,
> assuming maintainence is not due).

	I agree that Megacorps are much more efficient about managing 
ships in port and getting them back in j-space where they belong.  As for 
FTs making long-haul runs, I still have to wonder why you can't stick it 
on the freighters.  Even if they don't make those runs, you could still 
"check through" (like baggage) your freight all they way to its 
destination.
 
> Anyway, taking cargo across a sector seems more heroic and adventurous than
> doing short-haul runs along a main, and thus should be encouraged.

	An excellent reason!  Actually, it even makes sense for time 
sensitive goods.  FTs could serve a niche for goods, passengers, and info 
that want the additional speed of a direct trip.  Particularly for 
destinations not on the freight "hubs" FTs could make good long-haul 
direct runs.  
	I could even see a group of Free Traders learning that a company on the
world they're on is making a big shipment to a world on the other side of
the subsector because of a shortage there.  The Free Traders could then 
try to get a hold of some of the goods themselves and beat the big 
shipment to market.  They'd never be able to haul enough to slake demand, 
but that just means they can charge more for what they _do_ bring!
	This idea is beginning to make more sense to me.  When I get some
time, I'll sit down with a sub-sector and try to think about this more
concretely. For sure though, the J-1 Free Trader would be inferior to the 
J-2 Far Trader for this sort of work.

> Thirdly, there are always going to be corrupt corporate or other officials
> who want a cargo moved with no paperwork, or who need something to go
> *now* rather than in four days when the mail truck leaves.

	Ahh, the stuff of adventure.

> This might be true, but it doesnt feel Trav ... although I am reminded 
> about George Orwell's essay about when Whitehall began to run India by
> telegraph. This is, I think, the way things work in the staid, settled
> areas of the Imperium (ie nowhere in M0, most everywhere by 1100).

	You're right that it doesn't feel much like Trav.  But then, who 
ever adventured in the "staid, settled areas of the Imperium" anyway?  
The Marches were always supposed to be a frontier.

> Oh, and I dont believe in Subsidized Merchants per se (although, given
> bureaucracy and politics, all things are possible.
	I think the deal with SMs is not encouraging shipping per se, but 
encouraging frequent, but uneconomic, contact between backwater worlds 
and the rest of the Imperium.  The economic logic might dictate that a 
big freighter call on a small world every few weeks, while the needs of 
steady commercial and political ties requires contact every few days.  

- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:17:16 -0700
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Bad guys from the Core?

Roderick wrote:

>Kenji wrote:
>>Alas!  Woe!  I was starting to hope that, as the Imperium expanded, Famille
>>Spofulam might set up a subsidiary among the Sayat to produce hm, how to
>>describe it, adult military novelties?  I can see the advertising slogans
>>now:  "We Put the Packing Back in Packing!"
>>
>
>        Yikes :).  That sounds really, um, painful...  One can just
>visualize the looks of horror of customers on both sides of an inadvertent
>mislabelling mishap...

Heh, that reminds me of... er, um, no, let's leave my dating history out of
this...

>        Could lead to entire units getting disbanded over rumours of sexual
>depravity following desperate last stands: "They repelled that Zhodani
>Consular Guard unit hand to hand using _*WHAT*_?!".
>
>        And as far as the Zho are concerned, just imagine what they'd start
>thinking of the 3I after that little incident; add unspeakable perversity
>to mendacity, deviousness, and sociopathy...

In the course of cooking up more about the Sayat, I realized that their
reaction to the Zhodani will make that of the Impies look merely
uncordial... the Zhos being, of course, the willing puppet-creatures of the
demons of the Outer Void, a.k.a. "Droyne"...  besides being bellowing
bisexual bumpkins.

I don't see the Sayat as becoming part of the 3I. More like a client state
of the Hiver Federation, I think.  If that.

I've got something like 120K of .TXT of almost-finalized crap about these
critters now -- too much to post to the list, anyway.  Maybe time to see
about getting a webpage and put 'em up there, along with our working
materials on Vilani linguistics... talk about cultural diversity <G>

>        But since Marc seems to be positioning T4 as wholesome family
>entertainment, let's just stop there before FS starts deciding to improve
>on foot-long prehensile... oh, let's just not go there, shall we :)?

But -- but -- Spofulam can't leave *yet*!  The proposed expansion to FF&S2
is going to include "wetware"!


Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1837
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 16 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1838



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

[none]
Re: American Jingoism
re:Some stray thoughts
Re: FFS2 Drop tanks
Re: America 2300ad
Re: Fighter Quality
CSC To FFS2 Armor Value Conversions(Long)
Personal Armor Spreadsheet Version 1.2
Re: Jump in Traveller
Re: How to get things done!
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832
Live Campaigns?
Re: Imperial Military
Re: Gravity Advice
MegaTraveller Errata.
Re: Hackett, Ing
Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth
using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:37:19 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [none]

Harold writes:

>  Then it would be up to those Los Angeles-class subs to take care of
>things.  Failing that, you would have the ASW units, some of those old
>modified Essex-class carriers that could be recommisioned, and of course
>numerous other mothballed vessels including *real* battleships.  I don't
>think the French would be stupid enough, however, to challenge our
>ultimate weapon...
>
>   ...the U.S.S. Constitution.  Fully functional and operational once
>again.  How well would all that wood show up on French radar screens?
>:-)

But if it's us against you... we'll have to help the French (!!!) by
sending HMS Victory and recommissioning the Mary Rose. <g>

>   I don't even want to get into what would happen to France afterwards
><shutter>.

Depends if they admitted to it... eg here you are son. I want you to take
this highly important diplomatic package on the flight to New York
(for-ex). "Please fasten your seat belts for the approach to JFK <BOOM>"

Dom (scared by the thought of nuclear terrorism after talking to some
friends who worked making nukes).

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:46:31 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: American Jingoism

Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk> wrote:

>Dom Wrote:
>
>>How good the French technology is would be interesting - I mean, the UK
>>developed its systems from US power and weapon systems., but the French
>>went it alone.
>
><put on strong PR accent>
>
>Sorry to disapoint you 'old boy' ... but the Americans didn't give us a
>jot of help untill we managed to detonante a nuclear device off the
>cost of Australia, and then a thermal nuclear device off bikkini
>island. The US then thought that a rekindalling of the 'special arangment'
>was a good idear as 'old blighty' became a nuclear player.
>
><drop strong PR accent>
>
>We only brought US missiles after we had proved we could do it ourselves
>... :-)

Fair point - I am well aware of the UK efforts in this field - warhead
design and technology has been in ongoing development in the country since
the 40's. HOWEVER we bought both the SS(B)N power plant and launcher
(Polaris/Trident) off the USA following the cancellation of our own missile
projects. Oh, for the TSR2 to have been deployed! ;-)


Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:01:56 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:Some stray thoughts

Michael Peters wrote:


>To "prove" my point... There has been much debate about the virus
>episode in Gateway, (I've just purchased it and am not familiar with the
>details so I won't comment on that), and how it breaks with the Vilani
>susceptibility to decease during the RoM. However no one has yet made
>mention of the biggest Conon-breaker of all in TLH and Gateway! Why, if
>there is a "fast transit" gate way between an area near Core and
>Gushemege, even if an unstable one, wouldn't this have an affect at
>least in CT and MT? Now I don't want to hear about it was an Imperial
>Secret or some such! It wasn't "invented" yet is the answer, and if it
>had been it would have had an affect in the "later" history of the 3I,
>even if only as a foot note. What I am trying to say is, that unless we
>are willing to tie our hands to the point of inactivity, adventures in
>M:0 will always have the possibility to twist some point of Canon.

IIRC it is an Ancients Artifact, somewhere between Pocket Universes and
J-Drive. It may put a twist in canon, but that could just be a better
understanding of Jump theory and an earlier reaching of J4 technology...


Or it is an artifact *beyond* the comprehension of the Imperials
investigating it (see Iain Banks' Excession for more ideas on this)? It
doesn't have to have a major impact....

Dom
Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 14:06:25 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: FFS2 Drop tanks

Dom Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>> [Drop tanks] Not so much late any TL, but late historically.
>> Which would be completely in accord with canon

I think that all we know from canon sources is that "high-capacity"
passenger service was instituted at Regina in the 1100s, and was considered
nifty at the time.  We know that this high-capacity service used drop tanks,
because a drop-tank failure caused the loss of a passenger ship.

What we _don't_ know from canon material is whether or not drop tanks were:
1) A new innovation at that time, or
2) A new innovation in passenger service, or
3) Long-established in passenger service elsewhere, but used in the Marches
   for the first time, or
4) Long-established for special (military) purposes, but being used in
   passenger service in the Marches for the first time, or
5) A well-established practice that normally wasn't considered newsworthy,
   except in this case because the drop-tanks were the cause of the loss
   of the ship.

As far as I'm aware, there are no canon sources that conclusively establish
that drop tanks were NOT in use prior to the early 1100s.  There is some
small evidence to suggest that drop tanks WERE used (at least by the
Imperial military) earlier than the 1100s: I believe that it's mentioned in
_Trillion Credit Squadron_ that the Imperial strike cruiser that misjumped
into the Islands Cluster eventually repaired it's drive and jumped accross
the rift to Imperial space using drop tanks.  This would have happened
before the early 1100s, but I don't remember when (3rd Frontier War? 4th?).

>> I'm waiting for the day some M:0 author or ship designer decides to use
>> a drop tank. That _will_ be a canon breaker (Did FF&S2 say anything about
>> drop tanks, btw?).

> the drop tanks are in, and there is no mention of their late deployment in
> the Imperium. So it is potentially a canon breaker.

The drop tanks are included, with no TL or Milieu restrictions.  This is
only a "canon breaker" if you subscribe to interpretation #1 above as Hans
does.  I don't (my position is somewhere between #4 and #5)*.  FF&S2 also
does not provide for Hans' improvement in Jump Drive capacitor technology
that enables the use of drop tanks in his interpretation.


* If you're curious, my position is that drop tanks have some degree of
  inherent risk - if you use them regularly, there's a small but non-zero
  chance of having your own Trimhanka-Brilliance disaster (note that this
  level of risk is NOT described in FF&S2).

  For military operations during a war, this is usually an acceptable risk,
  and Imperial warships are prepared to use drop tanks when a mission
  profile calls for it.

  Drop tanks aren't used for merchant operations because of the risk.  The
  insurance underwriters don't want to carry the risk (even though it's
  relatively small)+, so the policies on your ship either become void or
  MUCH more expensive if you use drop tanks.  This means that the small
  shippers (who invariably purchase ships with standard bank loans, and
  must carry insurance for the bank) can't use drop tanks.

  Tukera is large enough that it can "self-insure" (that is, they have a big
  enough bank account to pay any claims, no insurance needed).  Because of
  this, Tukera could experiment with technology that was unavailable to
  their smaller competition. 

  Tukera is used to holding a monopoly on the major passenger and trade
  routes; normally this leads to a very conservative approach.  But in
  the Marches they had effective competition, particularly from Oberlindes
  operating from Regina.  Thus, Oberlindes tried using drop tanks, knowing
  that Oberlindes wouldn't be able to effectively compete against it. 
  UNfortunately for Tukera, a drop-tank accident destroyed a ship and
  nearly everyone on it relatively shortly after inagurating the service.


+ Insurance underwriters - particularly for large, expensive items like
  ships and their cargoes, tend to be conservative, and react VERY badly to
  elements of risk.  In the War of 1812, US privateers (like John Paul
  Jones) operating near England managed to severaly hurt British trade.
  But not because of the shipping destroyed or captured (which was a
  relatively small fraction).

  The US privateers caused enough havoc, and the Royal Navy seemed unwilling
  or unable to stop them, that insurance rates doubled or tripled.  This
  caused the shippers considerable financial pain, since that money came
  out of the shipper's profit margins, at least in the short term.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:47:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: America 2300ad

:)  So how did you like the BMP-3?
Yup, still called the T-90.  Heard they are already developing another
generation after that too....
Ahh, yes, the T2K T-90.. Yes, that is a load of cr*p..
:)
L8r
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:25:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: XatoKuom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fighter Quality

In a message dated 97-09-16 12:26:25 EDT, you write:

<< 
    Not quite true - the Mig-29 and the Su-27 (the Mig-31 doesn't even
 qualify) are _almost_ as good as the F-15.  >>

The Su-27 and the F-15 are quite close, however, in performance
characteristics.  In particular, thrust-to-weight ratio actually favors the
Su-27 Flanker.

The Su-35, the new and improved digital FBW Flanker, also has additional
canards mounted below the canopy which give unparalleled manuverability.  So,
in summation, we have a fighter with a smaller radar cross section, more
power and manuverability and a modern FBW system.

The only reason the new Flanker-B/D(?) can't compare in a one on one battle
is due to the vastly superior training of the average Western fighter jock.
 For crying out loud, the Russian government can't even pay their troops, but
once or twice a year.  By the way, what happened to our good friend, Gen.
Alexandr Lebed?

Scott Quigg(XatoKuom@aol.com)
In the Navajo tongue,  Kemo Sabe means "soggy bush"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:49:58 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: CSC To FFS2 Armor Value Conversions(Long)

Below is table for converting from CSC to FFS2 armor values. It can be to
convert FFS2 to CSC values also.

To make this table I used the *hard steel* standard, ie converted using the
value for hard steel in each system.

I can send a HTML version for those that might want to post it on a webpage.

Usage:
CM=centimeters of hard steel
CSC=CSC armor value
FFS2-FFS2 armor value
All values rounded to the nearest .5

Look up a armor value of 20 in FFS2, well that comes out to seven
centimeters of hard steel and a CSC armor value of 11. A CSC armor value of
20 comes to value of 103 in  FFS2 or 36 cm of hard steel.

CM    CSC   FFS2     CM    CSC    FFS2
0.01   1     0       110   28     315
0.02   2     0       120   29     343
0.03   2     0       130   30     372
0.04   2     0       140   31     400
0.05   2     0       150   31     429
0.06   2     0       160   32     458
0.07   2     0       170   33     486
0.08   3     0       180   33     515
0.09   3     0       190   34     543
0.1    3     0       200   34     572
0.2    4     1       210   35     601
0.3    4     1       220   36     629
0.4    4     1       230   36     658
0.5    5     1       240   37     686
0.6    5     2       250   37     715
0.7    5     2       260   38     744
0.8    6     2       270   38     772
0.9    6     3       280   39     801
1      6     3       290   39     829
2      8     6       300   39     858
3      9     9       310   40     887
4      9     11      320   40     915
5      10    14      330   41     944
6      11    17      340   41     972
7      11    20      350   41     1,001
8      12    23      360   42     1,030
9      12    26      370   42     1,058
10     13    29      380   43     1,087
11     13    31      390   43     1,115
12     14    34      400   43     1,144
13     14    37      410   44     1,173
14     14    40      420   44     1,201
15     15    43      430   44     1,230
16     15    46      440   45     1,258
17     15    49      450   45     1,287
18     16    51      460   45     1,316
19     16    54      470   46     1,344
20     16    57      480   46     1,373
21     16    60      490   46     1,401
22     17    63      500   47     1,430
23     17    66      510   47     1,459
24     17    69      520   47     1,487
25     17    72      530   48     1,516
26     18    74      540   48     1,544
27     18    77      550   48     1,573
28     18    80      560   48     1,602
29     18    83      570   49     1,630
30     18    86      580   49     1,659
31     19    89      590   49     1,687
32     19    92      600   50     1,716
33     19    94      610   50     1,745
34     19    97      620   50     1,773
35     19    100     630   50     1,802
36     20    103     640   51     1,830
37     20    106     650   51     1,859
38     20    109     660   51     1,888
39     20    112     670   51     1,916
40     20    114     680   52     1,945
41     20    117     690   52     1,973
42     21    120     700   52     2,002
43     21    123     710   52     2,031
44     21    126     720   53     2,059
45     21    129     730   53     2,088
46     21    132     740   53     2,116
47     21    134     750   53     2,145
48     22    137     760   54     2,174
49     22    140     770   54     2,202
50     22    143     780   54     2,231
51     22    146     790   54     2,259
52     22    149     800   54     2,288
53     22    152     810   55     2,317
54     22    154     820   55     2,345
55     23    157     830   55     2,374
56     23    160     840   55     2,402
57     23    163     850   56     2,431
58     23    166     860   56     2,460
59     23    169     870   56     2,488
60     23    172     880   56     2,517
61     23    174     890   56     2,545
62     23    177     900   57     2,574
63     24    180     910   57     2,603
64     24    183     920   57     2,631
65     24    186     930   57     2,660
66     24    189     940   57     2,688
67     24    192     950   58     2,717
68     24    194     960   58     2,746
69     24    197     970   58     2,774
70     24    200     980   58     2,803
71     24    203     990   58     2,831
72     25    206     1,000  59    2,860
73     25    209     1,100  61    3,146
74     25    212     1,200  62    3,432
75     25    215     1,300  64    3,718
76     25    217     1,400  66    4,004
77     25    220     1,500  67    4,290
78     25    223     1,600  68    4,576
79     25    226     1,700  70    4,862
80     25    229     1,800  71    5,148
81     26    232     1,900  72    5,434
82     26    235     2,000  74    5,720
83     26    237     3,000  84    8,580
84     26    240     4,000  93    11,440
85     26    243     5,000  100   14,300
86     26    246     6,000  106   17,160
87     26    249     7,000  111   20,020
88     26    252     8,000  116   22,880
89     26    255     9,000  121   25,740
90     26    257     10,000 125   28,600
91     27    260			
92     27    263			
93     27    266			
94     27    269			
95     27    272			
96     27    275			
97     27    277			
98     27    280			
99     27    283			
100    27    286			

Any questions, cheap shots, etc let me know.

Enjoy

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:24:50 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Personal Armor Spreadsheet Version 1.2

I've modified my FF&S1 Personal Armor Excel spreadsheet. Some minor changes
were made to the battledress sheet and a few corrections were made to the
flexible armor sheet. It's at:

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/locker/locker.html

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:50:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

In mail you write:

> Would it be possible to put "scramblers" on jump routes, that would
> prevent ships from being able to use the jump route?

Unlikely. Assuming you can generate a big enough gravity well, you
still have to get it in the path of the ship. And that path could pass
thru quite a wide area. Several AU across.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:08:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: How to get things done!

In mail you write:

> What about using ground-based lasers to lift small cargo ship into low earth
> orbit?

It's been discussed. But you need a gigawatt beam for about 5 tons of ship.

I rather like laser launch systems as they can provide a nasty surprise
to anybody attacking the port (a gigawatt laser with a ROF of 60 to 100
times *per second* is gonna ruin your day :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:13:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832

In mail you write:

> One excellant book on a post nuke world is of course David Brin's "The
> Postman", I'm suprised nobodies mentioned it before (p'haps its cos of
> GURPS: uplift wars :*) ). Not only is it a darn good read, but it
> provides an excellant backdrop and future timeline for a T2K world.

They are filming the movie version of "The Postman" currently.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: 16 Sep 1997 11:29 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Live Campaigns?

Dear Travellers,

I'd like to take an informal poll.  How many of you are active
in a Traveller campaign right now?  Are there some campaigns
that have multiple representation on TML?  Has anyone tried to
tally these numbers before?  How large is the average living
campaign today?

And, just to make things complex, what is your rules system mix
for your campaign?

Location:          Richardson, TX
Age:               1.5 years
Meeting Frequency: Once every 3 weeks
Group Size:        6+
Referees:          2+
Health:            Growing
Rules Mix:         80% T4, 20% CT, House


Rob


P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?
What's an ideal critical mass?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:53:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Imperial Military

You wrote: 

>seperate me and a soldier form Dallas when we were roomates.  Seems putting
>a Cowboys fan and a 493r Faithful in the same room was a mistake during
>football season...

Amen!  

>I wrote up a description of how the Army is staffed, funded, and organized
>a while ago.. if anyone is interested, I could repost it.

Please do so.

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:53:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:30:16 +0000
> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> 
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> > Note: the above is assuming that the Zilans *are* native, or that their
> > ancestors came to the planet long enough ago (millienia at least!) for
> > them to be adapted to the planet. If it's a colony that's only been
> > there a few generations, then they are *potentially* just as strong as
> > the players. But it may take them years of hard work to "adapt" to
> > normal gravity.
> 
> Hmmm.  The Spinward Marches was settled in the 600's.  My campaign is
> currently in 1105.  That means that the Zilan natives have only been
> there for 500 years.
> 
> So, you are saying that Zilan natives will be just like my PCs who are
> going there?

No, not at all.  *Genetically*, they'd be indistinguishable from other 1-g
humaniti (assuming that's what grav the first Zilan settlers came from, of
course).  Let two Zilan parents conceive a child on a 1-g world (probably
by artificial insemination...), let her carry it to term there (with
constant medical attention, and at some risk to her life), and raise the
resulting child there, and you'll see a normal 1-g human as a result.

However, nature is only half of the nature+nurture equation.  Human bones
and muscles develop in the ways we're all familiar with partly *because*
we spend our entire lives in a 1-g field.  As Russian medical experiments
have shown, bone mass, calcium levels, and muscle tone all drop
precipitously in 0-g; presumably similar though less severe effects would
occur in 1/5 gee as on Zila.  Zilans living on Zila would tend to have
thin, brittle bones, and perhaps carry too much mass for their frames
(relative to the 1-g 'norm').  They *might* tend to be a few inches
taller, simply because the skeleton would be compressed less.

Put one of these people into a 1-g field, though, and you'd have a very
unhappy invalid.  Have you ever been off your feet for any significant
length of time (say, due to illness or injury)?  Remember that horrible
wobbly, weak feeling you had trying to walk after not using your legs for
a few weeks?  That might approximate how a Zilan would feel in 1-g -- *at
first*, perhaps for as much as a year or two.  Following that, they'd
probably be more or less acclimated, though the bones might remain a bit
weaker than average permanently.

> I've got a problem here.  Maybe it is a problem with sci-fi and real
> science in general.
> 
> Zila is a major agricultural center in the Aramis subsector.  Some of
> you have heard of the famous Zilan eiswein.  There are three major
> wineries there who ship product all over the Spinward Marches and into
> Vargr space.
> 
> Now, when you read about Zila in the module (The Traveller Adventure),
> it is really just like any other planet.  It is earth-like, standard
> atmosphere, lush and pretty, and conducive to growing grapes.
> 
> Then, I run the planet through the WBG, and I get all of the things it
> is supposed to be except the gravity.
> 
> Now, I'm stuck with a sci-fi planet that has really low grav.  That's
> OK, except I'm not sure how these people ever leave their planet.
> 
> And, there are several planets like this in the Imperium.  Communities
> in space stations and on moons I can handwave away by saying that the
> facility they are in have tuned grav plates to 1G.  But, of all these
> low tech worlds--especially the ones who have breathable atmospheres
> and, thus, aren't always inside a faciltiy, these people are getting
> pretty used to the gravity pull of the world.
> 
> If it is such a problem for humans to live here, then why was the place
> settled 500 years ago in the first place!
> 
> I need a handwave, a head thought, something to feel better about this.

I certainly share your concern about this...my 'pet' world, Quopist in the
Marches, is a size *1* world with a thin atmosphere.  Just explaining how
that can be is hard; answering your questions is still harder.

This gets into the broader issue that Trav worlds are all too often
described by refs or adventures without really taking into account their
UPPs.  A dense, tainted atmosphere (for example) would be the first thing
you'd notice about a new planet on arrival, and would affect *everything*
about daily life, city design, settlement patterns, transport, and so
forth on that planet.  But one frequently sees world write-ups that just
ignore this.

Anyway, here are some handwaves you might try out for the low-gee-natives
problem:

* A miracle drug becomes available at highish TLs which helps the
  body acclimate far more quickly and easily.  A nanotech or viral
  agent would work best here.  A likely side effect would be voracious
  hunger for high calcium and protein foods, as all the added bone and
  muscle mass has to come from somewhere.  The Imperium subsidizes
  production and distribution of this drug as part of its trade
  enhancement program, and it's automatically included (if needed) in
  the standard costs of starship travel, and in the cost of ship's
  provisions per FF&S.

* Natives wishing to travel off-planet eventually spend 1-3 hours per
  day working out in 1-g gyms.  Additionally, some children (rich ones,
  or all on wealthy worlds with subsidies) spend still more of their time
  in 1-g settings in order to foster their proper bone and muscle
  development.  Pregnant women might do the same to provide for proper
  fetal development.

* We really don't have any data on the effects of low gravity on humans --
  just 1 and 0.  Perhaps even as little as a tenth of a g is much less
  harmful than our current models indicate.  This would translate into
  faster and easier acclimation.

Hope this helps!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:08:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: MegaTraveller Errata.

There are several people out there who have expressed an interest in
MegaTraveller Errata.  A couple of big MT Errata files can be found at the
ftp site:

ftp://elendor.sbs.nau.edu/pub/rpg/traveller/

I think the next directory down is erratta (sic) and that's where you'll find
the stuffs.  I hope this helps those of you who were asking.

Semo (the Samaritan [the good one!  really!])

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:27:04 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Hackett, Ing

>Folks have already mentioned "The Third World War" by Gen. Hackket.
>There's also a sequel running around. I have it, but it's in storage.

  "WW 3 - The Twilight Struggle" or somesuch - same war, but in 
secondary theaters, and non-conventional aspects.
>
>Dean Ing wrote a series of three books that start with the above
>"history" as background and go on with some more fighting and sneak
>attacks etc. The first book is "Systemic Shock". I can't recall the
>titles of the other two right now.

  "Single Combat" (highly recommended) and "Wild Country".

        Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:55:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth

In a message dated 97-09-16 03:36:06 EDT, you write:

<< > Actually, if the leagility part does not bother you making a pirate radio or<<
<snip>

Who said anything about getting caught?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:47:47 -0400
From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
Subject: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

  Hello everyone. I've been reading posts to the TML archive off andon for a while now, and just recently subscribed.  Me and my
  friends started out playing CT, and then bought MT when it came
  out. We now use MT rules with the CT setting, which will
  eventually lead to the Shattered Imperium.  I have a few questions:
Presently, our party is situated on a vacuum world (Dinom, in the
Lanth sub-sector). My questions relates to which personal weapon
would and would not work in a vacuum atmosphere.  I would think that
most firearms would not work, such as pistols, rifles, etc. Would an
ACR work? (BTW, can someone explain to me what DS amo is ?
Discarding sabot...???...) I think probably not. What about an ARL? I believe a gauss
weapon would work (battery in each clip...). Laser rifles, FGMP's and PGMP's would work quite nicely. Would grenades work? Help me out here, people.


ciao,

Denis Allain
New-Brunswick, Canada
mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1838
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 17 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1839



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Traveller system security
French hardware, etc.
Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!
Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1838
Re: MT Errata
Traveller
Re: Aslan
Re: Kenji Shwarz
Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad (my final words)
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: dan lane
Re: Chemical engines
RE: Live Campaigns?
Re: Historical events
Re: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Aslan
Re: Live Campaigns?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:14:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Traveller system security

In a message dated 97-09-16 04:29:26 EDT, you write:

 >>Funny, dongles are *still* in use for expensive, limited run software. <<
So?  They are absolutely worthless.  Worse, they are a pain in the ass.
 
 >>Sure, it's impossible to be 100% secure. But my point was that unless
 the players have unreal computer skills, they aren't going to have a
 lot of luck.<<
Agreed, or access to the newest hacking utilities.
 
 >  >>Finally, there are computer OSes that already exist where you the OS
 >  won't *let* you backup up software flagged as "no copies allowed". And
 >  they have access restrictions on files as well. Unlike MS-DOS, these 
 >  are built in at the OS level. Combine such an OS with protected mode
 >  hardware, and the only way to "crack" things is with custom equipment
 >  built *specifically* for the purpose of violating security. <<
 
 > Uhhh, examples please?  I've never heard of this. 
 
 >>The much maligned TRS-DOS. 7 levels of protection for files, with two
 seperate passwords with different access levels possible (that's two
 passwords per file!). And you could set the number of backup copies of
 a file possible. Anytime you copied a disk with backup limited files,
 the copies would have the limit set to 0 (ie, no copies), and the disk
 you copied from would have the counter decremented. <<

MSX-DOS had something similar to this....:)  Now THAT was a classic OS...
 
 > And if they could why would Microsoft not build it into THEIR OS??? 
 
>>> <loud laughter>. Easy. TRS-DOS started out as an OS for *business* use,
 with home use a secondary consideration. MS-DOS was the exact opposite,
 and had to be "CP/M compatible" (that was one of IBM's "requirements").<<<
<Shrug>
 
>>I suggest that you have never worked with mainframe OSes or even OSes
 like Novell Netware. <<

Yes I have tinkered with mainframe OS's.  But their security does not impress
me.  It seems the bigger the OS the more holes it has....I can only imagine
the security nightmare that the high end Traveller systems must be.
 
>>I was *shocked* when I started using MS-DOS and found out that it had
 *no* file security whatsoever. Hell, even Unix has file access
 permissions. <<
 
 >  >>The existing OSes that do this aren't on secure hardware, so by use of
 
>> Nope, not bad sectors. Just ones that the OS wouldn't let user programs
 get at. So you had to bypass the OS and talk directly to the floppy
 controller. As I noted, on CPU's with hardware protection, you can only
 talk directly to the hardware *if* you are the OS.<<

Here we start getting into the mystic world of OS hacking.....
 
 -- 

 
 
  >>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:24:25 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: French hardware, etc.

Hello,
>don't know much about their navy.  And their Air Force, well, Mirages 
>have the reputation as being the aircraft to buy if your politics 
>aren't in line with the US sufficiently to be able to wrange F-16s.

  Like the Israeli's, perchance?
  
>But their ground forces are more designed with neo-colonial 
>interventions against lightly armed primitives in mind than with a good 

  True. But they are therefore correct in designing hardware for that
purpose. Mind you, I do a bunch of the work for our microarmour groups
rules set, and I look at the stats our researcher converts, and I hate
the stuff.

>solid stand-up fight.  I mean look at the AMX-30!  I mean, yeah, the 
>LeClerc is a solid tank, but it's ten years too late.  By the time they 

  Heartfelt agreement.

>get that into every line unit, the US will have everyone up M1A2 
>standard.  And their best troops don't drive tanks, anyway.  They drive 

  Their best troops use equipment appropriate to their mission. I agree
that the M-1 series are awesome vehicles - but they are MBT's, and thus
not appropriate for all missions.

  Part of the problem with the French hardware is the procurement process
(hmm, that sounds familiar). Orders are spread out amongst various of the
nationalised arms firms to keep them all in business and employing their
contingents of voters. Economies of scale are poor, and are tweaked by
pushing foreign sales, often with "foreign aid" credits from other arms of
the French gov't - France is a major offender with that tendency. The fact
seems to be that the French were morally certain that a Soviet conventional
attack on Europe was not going to happen. In retrospect, they may simply
have known things that the public in the West didn't.

  OC, they may have been re-equipping to fight their most recent (colonial)
war again - a bad habit world-wide, and one which I think the U.S. has done
very well in avoiding the last decade or so.

  In T*, the issue can be viewed several ways - what fun or money can be
had with arms procurement or transport, or with silly deployments. IIRC,
one of Daley's "Han Solo" novels (rather good, actually) has a backwater
dictatorship equipped with imported APC's; specifically, run-down garbage
trucks...

  Also, one Challenge mag had a 1200 mt assault tank. Imagine the players
trying to figure out how to drive it on to their freighter without it simply
dropping through the cargo bays decking :)
        
        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson,
                        Vancouver, British Columbia

The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:06:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!

In a message dated 97-09-16 11:33:27 EDT, you write:

<<  Yes, the Patriots were _wildly_ innacurate (having an official hit
 percentage of 20%, but in reality closer to 10%).  But, you're partially
 right.  It was never a single patriot that got sent up to hit the SCUDS,
they
 were sent up in pairs. >>

Actually I'm referring to the fact (as far as I or anyone I work with knows)
thatno "SCUD" ballistic missiles were shot down by the Patriot system.
If you can show me evidence contradicting this from sources OTHER than
Newsweek, Popular "Pseudo"Science, etc.  I'd be grateful.  But none of my
officers who were over there say they hit anything and my friend in the
Marine HAWK battery says the Patriot is just a nice political pseudoweapon to
ease fears...

Thanx
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:05:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!

In a message dated 97-09-16 11:33:27 EDT, you write:

<<  Yes, the Patriots were _wildly_ innacurate (having an official hit
 percentage of 20%, but in reality closer to 10%).  But, you're partially
 right.  It was never a single patriot that got sent up to hit the SCUDS,
they
 were sent up in pairs. >>

Actually I'm referring to the fact (as far as I or anyone I work with knows)
thatno "SCUD" ballistic missiles were shot down by the Patriot system.
If you can show me evidence contradicting this from sources OTHER than
Newsweek, Popular "Pseudo"Science, etc.  I'd be grateful.  But none of my
officers who were over there say they hit anything and my friend in the
Marine HAWK battery says the Patriot is just a nice political pseudoweapon to
ease fears...
Thanx
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:45:28 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1838

Ok, here's my current campaign:

Location:          Wollongong, NSW, Australia
Age:               2 weeks
Meeting Frequency: Once every 3 weeks
Group Size:        4+
Referees:          1
Health:            Just starting up
Rules Mix:         99% TNE, 1% House

This campaign ^ is an extension of my previous one
Old Rules Mix:         75% MT 25% House


			D.Moodie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:59:50 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: MT Errata

Everyone interested in MT errata:

The files at ftp://elendor.sbs.nau.edu/pub/rpg/traveller/erratta cover all
of MT's errors except the grenade & recoilless rifle prices. I have a
table calculated using FF&S for this but I would appreciate the official
tables from GDW of course... The only othe missing section is about jump
travel times, which turned up in the Referee's Companion. Otherwise the
files above should correct any printing of MT...

							D.Moodie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:30:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gethany@aol.com
Subject: Traveller

UNSUBSCRIBE TRAVELLER

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:53:01 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Aslan

>>If I could make one suggestion for new material on the Alsan, it would be
>>to play up their individualism and the mercantile aspects of their society.
>>This would add depth to Aslan society and make them seem less like
>>"Klingons in fur".
>
>It was their unique approach gender roles that make them unique (or
>one of the things).  I you make them just another race where you
>have a slightly male dominate society in which women are trying
>for equal rights (just like on Earth) you loose that.

I don't recall making any suggestion remotely like "make them just another
race ... in which women are trying for equal rights". My suggestion was for
female-dominated clans to *differ* from the steriotypical male clan, not
that the females are going to be running around with razor dewclaws or
something. In fact, that is exactly what I DIDN'T want. If the existence of
one female-dominated clan out of the billions of Aslan is unacceptable,
then make it a male-dominated clan that is interested in economic conquest
and not military. I just was tired of every Aslan having the same
personality.

>It might be that Aslan have big controversis over things they consider
>crucial (but humans wonder why aren't just considered side issues,
>like maybe whether females using artillery for direct fire
>situations is permitted).  But just putting them into the same
>old human gender stuggle is (IMO) more like Klingons in fur.

IIRC there have been huge controversies in the American and Israeli
militaries about the role of women in combat, but that has nothing to do
with the issue.

My "Klingons in fur" remark was about all Aslan clans being portrayed
exclusively as warriors. I wanted there to be some variety in Aslan
society. Female Aslan are supposed to be more interested in trade and
technology, so I thought a female-dominated clan would be a good fit for a
clan that emphasizes them. The males would be less interested in this, so
why would there be a "gender struggle"? I'm not saying there couldn't be,
it just doesn't follow that there would have to be.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:05:44 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Kenji Shwarz

sir I don't know who your post was directed at but I hope it was not me .
if you read the post you will see that all but the last two lines were
written by Mr. Locket , I wrote the last lines about not whining and such
.. for some reason the messages ran into one another .

jim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:45:49 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Re:More on T2000 and T2300ad (my final words)

I realize this is starting to get old so...

John Atkinson writes:

>You don't need that much skill to hit someone with an automatic weapon. 
>Partisan units have formed frequently among populations which have no 
>prior training of a military nature.  Parisian citizens form Maquis, 
>Ukranian peasants form entire partisan divisions, etc.  And any 
>survivors from the local National Guard unit provide a cadre of trained 
>leadership.

   Even in the T:2000 scenario, the US could draw on a large number of
irregular forces, equipped with semi-auto rifles and pistols and a
variety of regular military surplus items for home defense.  Training
could be provided by the thousands of veterans nationwide, many with
prior combat experience.

>>of the 3rd world countries they make up for it with sheer numbers of
>>personal just like Vietnam and as for the like of LA street gangs with
>>the Hispanics. Let us remember Los Almos.  On a tour map I have it 
>>points out that the Hispanics population in 1980 for LA was over 2 
>>million and the whole population of Southern California was only 13.6 
>>Million 

   Invading Mexican forces could expect a tactical nuclear device to
explode over their heads as they cross the border (failing that nerve
gas--if we are talking about national survival, gassing Mexican troops
who a) don't carry NBC gear and b) can't retaliate is a viable option). 
Surviving units would find that not only would they be facing fanatical
resistence from well armed paramilitary "gringos", but Latinos born in
this country as well.  

   While I would buy without any problem large-scale "bandito" raids
into the US from Mexico (Ponco Villa gained his fame conducting raids
along the Mexico-US border earlier this century), a full scale invasion
is not plausible.  Raids by Mexican forces (unauthorized military,
paramilitary, etc.) would cause even further damage to the US (as if the
limited nuke war wasn't enough)--imagine if you will the infamous "Sack
of Las Cruces" (anyone see a Traveller parallel here), which was looted
and burned to the ground before the American military could do anything
about it.  Hard to justify popping nerve gas in a scenario like this
one, yet it opens up similar adventures to those that involve involving
supposed Soviet troops in San Antonio.

>What, so Hispanics wouldn't fight for the US?  My (Hispanic from Los 
>Angeles) bunkmate in Basic Training would likely disagree.  Violently.  

   Lost in all the BS of this discussion is the fact that the some of
the people in California who are most against illegal immigration are
Latinos.  They would no more be Mexican sympathizers than
Japanese-Americans were followers of Tojo during WW II.
 
>>Military reserves read big targets. Let see M1 MBT range 280mph, top 
>>speed 45mph, number deployed in USA some 3000(7058 had been produced 
>>by 1988)

   The top cross-country speed for the M-1 is probably around that
figure.  Top road speed I've heard is around 100 kph.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 23:49:33 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

On 09/16/97 at 07:45 AM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
said:

>> Well if Dr. Pournelle came up with the idea, it's a good bet it's a sound
>> one.  He's an extremely intelligent man with multiple PHD's in various
>> fields.

>Oh, hell, not to interrupt the Jerry Pournelle love-fest, 

We love you Jerr-ry!
Oh yes, we dooo!   ;->

>but a) he is smart, and learned long ago that the best way to look
>_really_ smart is to find people who know more about a subject than you
>and ask them ;-)
You bet your biscuits!  ;-> Jerry's non-fiction strength has always been
being able to communicate the complex ideas of others to the rest of us.

>b) I believe he has _one_ PhD, 

Yes, in Psychology (of all things ;-) I think.

>but a polymath temperament, who long ago also discovered the secret to
>a fun life...become a successful author.  That way _ANYTHING_ you do
>can be classified as "research".  (Including those 15 hour marathons of
>Wing Commander and the like ;-)

As he has written in various magazines too many times to count. ;->

>He didn't come up with the WORM drive concept, merely adapted it from his
>RL experience. IIRC, the Falkenberg Legion books where he explained the
>software was about the time he got one of the first generation WORM drives
>himself, and proceeded to rave about them for years in his Byte column. 

Ad nauseam! ;->

Yeah, you can go buy a WORM for under a thousand bucks..probably a *lot*
less than a thousand now.  They are favored by authors, accountants, and
auditors.  The idea is that you can write on the disk, but you can't erase
anything your write.  For an author each version saved is added to the disk
so she can always step back to *any* previously saved version. For
accountants and auditors, the advantage is similar..plus it gets very hard
to "cook the books" when every entry is permanently encoded on the disk.

For the rest of us, it's cheaper and better to get true R/W optical disks. 
So when is R/W-DVD going to hit the market...at under $500?  ;->

As for as the "Stemple" stuff that Leroy was kicking around...why not just
say the architecture is built around specialized neural net hardware? 
Neural nets are exotic enough to ignore details in a game and by their
nature are "learning" machines on the road toward AI or even AE.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 05:34:48 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:46:22 -0700, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> What I want are the books themselves.  I've looked for years for
> Merchant Prince, Fighting Ships, Solomani Rim and Scouts.  Until I got
> on ths list, i didn't even have an idea there were alien modules out.

I've got a spare copy of Scouts if you're interested.

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 05:34:47 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: dan lane

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:08:08 -0500 (CDT), John Atkinson wrote:

> You wrote: 
> >
> >"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> writes:
> >
> >>>Remember that the last war America fought on it's own, we lost.  
> >>WHAT? I mean that. WHAT? This is a gross insult to the very brave 
> >>South Koreans, Thais, and Australians that joined America in the
> >>Vietnam war. 
> >
> >Not to mention Canadians.
> 
> Canadians?  Last time I checked, Canada's main contribution was to 
> serve as the hidey hole of every leftwinger nutcase who stepped beyond 
> even the loosely enforced laws. . . 

What the hell is this CRAP !?!

Can we *please* get back to discussing Traveller?

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 05:34:50 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:08:06 -0700 (MST), Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Of course, if you want to be really insane, I mean truly insane, look at
> what they get out of top fuel dragsters these days. These puppies have
> higher acceleration rates than _anything_ on the planet and most things
> off. What's holding them down, so to speak, is not engine technology, but
> clutch technology...getting the power from the engine TO the wheels
> without blowing the transmission and clutch into tiny little pieces.

Ah, memories.  I remember reading an article in HotRod pitting Big
Daddy Garnett against an F-16 taking off from a carrier using a steam
catapult.  Big Daddy's dragster ran a "land" course of approximately
the same distance-- and won.

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:39:01 -0700
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Live Campaigns?

Location:	Portland, Or
Age:		.5 years (after my military hiatus)
Meeting Freq:	every 2 weeks
Group Size:	5+
Referees:	Just me
Rules Mix:	T4 rules (80%), House (20%)
Campaign:	Spinward Marches @ 1105
	

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:11:21 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Historical events

Once in a (long) while the there comes along something on the TML that you
automatically print, keep and  backup and this was it. The problem with
really good postings is (IMHO) that the usefulnes/quality of the posting
stands in inverse (square?) relationship to the number of replies.

To encourage further stuff to help the referee churning out the
social/political/historical sides of his gameworld here goes my praise.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:22:22 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited

>And, obviously, GURPS mechanics are out.
>
>Best,
>
>Chris Griffen

Out of curiosity, just what is wrong with GURPS mechanics (besides
squabbles over the char gen)?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:20:08 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

>One thing i don't understand about SJG's plan:
>*Why-o-why don't they set it in 1107 or somewhere in that area?
>They wouldn't have to contradict MT and TNE and would be producing
>perfectly legitimate CT-material (with Gurps-rules).
>As i see it, 1107 and a 1116 where Strephon isn't killed shouldn't be
>that much different from each other! So why contradict MT and TNE,
>when you can produce the same products, set 10 years earlier, and
>consistant with Traveller Canon?
>I'd favor a setting that remains consistant with Traveller Canon, as
>would most TML-members.

They don't want to simply make a GURPS Traveller to set the jumble of
combat systems/char gen/design systems etc in place. They want to create
something NEW so that those of us that have everything Traveller related
will still buy it. Either fast forward to after the TNE era but then hey'd
have to live with all the stupid things done to Traveller by TNE and
alienate lots of potential customers. They could branch off at the
rebellion but maybe they think that a large Imperium more or less stable is
a good idea as it allows the ref to be creative and not having to worry
about this or that planet being nuked.

Personally I think GURPS Traveller is the best thing that has happened
since Striker I. Finally a combat system that is detailed and somewhat
consistent with other rules. Most people seem to dislike GURPS for its char
gen system but how that is handled is up to the ref. I like the combat
system and the vehicle systems a lot.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:57:11 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Location:    kissimmee florida
Age:             4 years and I am starting a seperate P. E. game which when concluded will be the setting of my next campaign.
Meeting Frequency: once per week
Group Size:        5+
Referees:           1 me !!
Health:               healthy 
Rules Mix:         was CT now converted to T4 ( 100 % )

jim chip mckee

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:57:11 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Aslan

>
>My "Klingons in fur" remark was about all Aslan clans being portrayed
>exclusively as warriors. I wanted there to be some variety in Aslan
>society. Female Aslan are supposed to be more interested in trade and
>technology, so I thought a female-dominated clan would be a good fit 
>for a clan that emphasizes them. The males would be less interested in
this, 
>so why would there be a "gender struggle"? I'm not saying there couldn't

>be, it just doesn't follow that there would have to be.
>
	Well I must speak out against the noble aslan being compared to
star dreks crummiest alien , please now . Alsan have always seemed about
right with there warrior code and male dominated culture . I compared
them to fuedal samurai in there general culture and outlook magnified
some what . in my campaign aslan encountered refer to each othe by clan
name personal name and sex suffix ,in that order . this is important
because in my view of aslan job title does much to denote sex suffix so a
male human merchant would be addressed with the female suffix while a
female merc captain would be addressed with the male suffix . this is not
because the aslan can't tell the difference betwenn a human male or
female but more because it is cultural and IMO some what psychologically
ingrained .
	on this same note a female aslan who wanted to be a warrior would
be viewed as a abomination and would bring great shame and dishonor upon
her family 
( possibly leading to ritual suicide ) as would a male who wanted to be a
computer tech. I think the aslan culture is genitically ingrained so I
don't think the above would happen . of course this is all my oppinion
and how I do it in my campaign .

I do not like klingons .. but I love the aslan . lets not compare glass
and diamonds 

Chip 
T4 fan

>--
>Richard Hough
>rdhough@orca.bc.ca
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:46:39 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Robert Eaglestone wrote:
> 
> Dear Travellers,
> 
> I'd like to take an informal poll.  How many of you are active
> in a Traveller campaign right now? 

I'm running one!

 Are there some campaigns
> that have multiple representation on TML? 

Nope. Just me on the TML.

 Has anyone tried to
> tally these numbers before? 

I don't think so.

 How large is the average living
> campaign today?

Hmmm.  I would guess about three players and a ref.


> And, just to make things complex, what is your rules system mix
> for your campaign?

Well, this is a complicated one.  When I started the campaign almost two
years ago, I hadn't yet heard that T4 was coming out.

I liked the detail in TNE, but I hated the rules implementation.  I
spent three years, working on and off, converting the whole TNE rules
system to the MT task system.

Boy, I'll never do that again.

So, we started the campaign with this TNE rules set--using the MT task
system and only D6's.

Then, T4 came out,and it through a wrench in the plan.  We switced to
the TNE rules system, but we used the T4 task system. Having played with
all of that detail, we were reluctant to move to T4 basic way of doing
things.

But, I got tired of having, every time we played, to tweak something.
Conversion was a bitch.  So, I switced the group over to the published
T4 rules.

It was a lot less detail, but it was a lot less complicated too. 
Everyone bitched at first, but then we started noticing something.  We
were picking up on the T4 rules much faster than we had the TNE rules,
and we were having less in-game discussions about why a rule was a
particular way.  I actually started having game sessions where I didn't
have to tweak a T4-TNE conversion.

So, I was sold on T4.

Then we had another problem--which became a problem for the whole list. 
I figured out how blown out of proportion the T4 task system was--things
like 40% chances for Impossible rolls for characters with level 3
skills.

This led to the KBv1.1 task system.  And, we were happy in our game for
a while.

Then, Marc announced that he would be tweaking the T4 task system for
T4.1.  I went to work to fix some of the things that I didn't like about
KBv1.1.

And, the brainchild of that endeavor was KBv2.0.

Today, my group is going along strong.  We use T4 rules modified by the
KBv2.0 task system.  

I keep experimenting with new ways to do things.  The Traveller universe
is so big, and there are several supplements out there from four game
editions.

The last three games, I added CT's tactical combat system, Snapshot, to
the mix.  Everybody seems to like it, so I think it will be a keeper.

I experiement with other things too.  When I get something the way I
like it, I leave it, and that's the way we do it from then on out.

Right now, I am experimenting with hit location charts.  I've been using
Glenn Grant's chart, but I found one designed by DGP that I tried out
last Sunday.  The verdict is still out on that one.

> Location:          Houston, TX

> Age:               1.7 years

> Meeting Frequency: Two Sundays per month, for about 7 hours a game session

> Group Size:        5

> Referees:          1

> Health:            We had a fantastic time last Sunday.  It was one of those earth                      shaking games.  One of our players brought a picture he had drawn                      and scanned in for a computer enhancement--something he drew for                      one of our other players.  I wrote a short story about one of the                      events that happened in the game.

                     I'd say we are all very much into it.

> Rules Mix:         70% T4, 20% CT, 10%House


> P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?

Hmm.  I don't know about that one.

> What's an ideal critical mass?

We started our game with 6 players and me GMing.  In starting a new game
that only one player had played before and only one other player even
hearing of it before, it was hectic.

Everybody had only one character, and this meant if we spent the whole
night (ie somebody stayed back with the ship) with only a couple of
characters, some players didn't do anything all night.  They got bored.

Well, two players did get bored in my game.  But, the rest of us were
happy that happened, because shedding that dead weight really allowed us
to pick up the pace and ensure that everybody was included.

We've been having a blast since then.

I'd say 5 players is about has high as I want to go.  I'd say 3-5
players is optimal.

Another consideration is juggling everybody's schedule.  The more
players you have, the harder it is to get everybody together, the less
you play.

We've got a rule that, if everybody doesn't show up, then we don't
play.  We don't do this, "You run my character next game session for me"
stuff.  Every character has a unique personality and only one player,
the player who created him, can play him correctly.

There's a lot of pressure to show up to my game--but it is not negative
pressure.  We are all dedicated, and we enjoy the hell out of role
playing.  We don't want somebody playing with us who is not going to be
dependable.

We set up the game about a month in advance, so the game doesn't get put
off because so and so's wife has to go visit her grandmother and so and
so can't make it.

Also, we have a rule, if we don't play at least twice in a month, we
make up the game date.  If we only get one game in, say, September, we
will play three games in October.

Given this--juggling jobs, wives, and lives--nobody wants to miss
anyway.

Besides, we all love it.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1839
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 17 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1840



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
RE: FFS2 Drop tanks
Re: Gravity Advice
Re: [none]
Marathon 2 Sub Merchant
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Merconomics and catheters
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc.
Re: MT missing tables?
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1839
Re: Ship Missions
Re: Chemical engines
Books and Scuds and stuff
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1836
Re: Marathon 2 Sub Merchant
Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly
Re: Some stray thoughts
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Jump in Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:50:29 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

I have a few questions:
> Presently, our party is situated on a vacuum world (Dinom, in the
> Lanth sub-sector). My questions relates to which personal weapon
> would and would not work in a vacuum atmosphere.  I would think that
> most firearms would not work, such as pistols, rifles, etc. Would an
> ACR work? (BTW, can someone explain to me what DS amo is ?
> Discarding sabot...???...)

Dennis,

Have you got the EA?  There is a section in the front that talks about
weapons and how they work in different environments.  Vacuum is
included.  With special modifications, most weapons do work in vacuum,
and there are game rules for this in that section of the EA.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:56:50 -0700
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: FFS2 Drop tanks

From the TAS archives on the IG site...
______________________________________________________
Regina/Regina (0310-A788899-A) Date: 097-1105
Officials of the General Shipyards on Regina announced that it has 
completed negotiations with Tukera Lines to locally manufacture L-Hyd drop 
tanks for use on high-capacity commercial vessels. General will assemble 
components at its more modern facilities on Pixie (0303-A1001030-D). The 
first production examples are expected to be available within six months, 
at which time Tukera Lines will begin high capacity service from the 
interior. Component assembly will be carried out at General's more modern 
facilities on Pixie (0303-A100103-D).

L-Hyd drop ships have only been in service for the last dozen years in the 
interior, being made possible by recent advances in the field of capacitor 
engineering, a joint press release explained. Commercial vessels equipped 
with the new generation of long-storage jump capacitors carry jump fuel in 
specially designed L-Hyd drop tanks in excess of their rated tonnage. Upon 
conversion of the fuel to the massive energy required for jump, the drop 
tanks are explosively jettisoned through the use of break-away connections 
and explosive bolts. Jump is executed when the remains of the tanks are a 
safe distance from the vessel.

A spokesman for General Shipyards explained that local yards are not yet 
capable of manufacturing the long-storage capacitors required for the 
process, but that production of the drop tanks is possible, thus allowing 
the high capacity starships of the Tukera Lines to begin service to the 
Regina subsector.

L-Hyd tanks are not reusable, and thus increase the absolute cost per jump. 
However, experience has shown that the increase in cargo tonnage resulting 
from the elimination of internal J-fuel storage more than makes up for 
this, the press release explained.

The joint press release concluded by stating that local manufacture of 
L-Hyd drop tanks marks the dawn of a new era of commerce and prosperity in 
the Regina subsector. Following the announcement, common stock in 
Oberlindes Lines plummeted 27 points on the Regina exchange before trading 
was suspended. Officials of Oberlindes Lines were not available for 
comment.
______________________________________________________

It's pretty specific.  In 1105, "L-Hyd drop ships have only been in service 
for the last dozen years..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 02:00:21 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Advice

Craig Berry wrote:

> I certainly share your concern about this...my 'pet' world, Quopist in the
> Marches, is a size *1* world with a thin atmosphere.  Just explaining how
> that can be is hard; answering your questions is still harder.
> 
> This gets into the broader issue that Trav worlds are all too often
> described by refs or adventures without really taking into account their
> UPPs.  A dense, tainted atmosphere (for example) would be the first thing
> you'd notice about a new planet on arrival, and would affect *everything*
> about daily life, city design, settlement patterns, transport, and so
> forth on that planet.  But one frequently sees world write-ups that just
> ignore this.

This is exactly true!  I'm glad I asked this question, because it has
sure got me thinking more about the whole issue.  I'm going to put more
effort into this in my campaign.  I want to make my worlds more alien. 
I want my players to think about the problems associated with life on
another planet.

This is a sci-fi game after all.  The different places they go is not
just Earth dressed up like another planet.  When they land on differnt
planets, my job as a GM is to describe it in such a way so that they
"get into" this new planet.  I want to make them wonder.

Otherwise, we're just playing Star Trek, where every planet is class M,
breathable,and at 1G.

I am going to endeavor to make my players feel like they are on the far
reaches of the universe--or in the Spinward Marches anyway.

This has been a good exercise for me.  I really appreciate you and your
brother's comments.  They have been excellent.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:38:38 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: [none]

SD Mooney writes:

>>I don't
>>think the French would be stupid enough, however, to challenge our
>>ultimate weapon...
>>
>>   ...the U.S.S. Constitution.  Fully functional and operational once
>>again.  How well would all that wood show up on French radar screens?
>>:-)
>
>But if it's us against you... we'll have to help the French (!!!) by
>sending HMS Victory and recommissioning the Mary Rose. <g>

   Nelson would rise up from his grave and sink the HMS Victory
personally before seeing it used to support the French.

   Mary Rose?  Can't be any bigger than a frigate, and the Constitution
will sink any frigate sent up against her.

   Anyone know where the USS Enterprise (WW II carrier) is these days? 
I hope someone had the good sense to preserve her too (had a reputation
nearly as good as Constitution's--fought at Midway and many other
battles without being sunk).  She may be needed again.

>>   I don't even want to get into what would happen to France afterwards
>><shutter>.
>
>Depends if they admitted to it... eg here you are son. I want you to take
>this highly important diplomatic package on the flight to New York
>(for-ex). "Please fasten your seat belts for the approach to JFK <BOOM>"

   I'm not saying that those responsible would be caught right away, but
these things have a way of being found out later on (particularly when
they are sponsored by another government).  I doubt that the US would
bother with extradiction proceedings and would probably just proceed
with passing sentence...<BOOM>

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:40:03 -0400
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Marathon 2 Sub Merchant

Found Marathon2 for the PC in the ol' bargain bin at my FLPCS today, 
and remember someone mentioning that one of the levels takes place in 
a Subsidized Merchant ship. Is that in this game, or Marathon 1? and 
which level is it I should look out for?


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:54:53 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Robert Eaglestone writes: 

>I'd like to take an informal poll.

Location:          Dayton, OH
Age:               34 years.  Oh the campaign!  That would be: 1 year
                   (previous one lasted for a couple of years).
Meeting Frequency: Once every 2 weeks
Group Size:        7
Referees:          1 (me)
Health:            Growing (expect two more soon)
Rules Mix:         90% TNE, 10% House

Additional note: We have in the past played rotating campaigns of TNE
and Star Wars.  We may pick up with a Star Wars campaign again in
October.

>P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?

   I've never had the situation come up--don't know.

>What's an ideal critical mass?

   I'd say a healthy group has at least 1 ref and 4 players.  I've run
campaigns with as few as 2 players, but the more the merrier I say.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:10:30 -0400
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Merconomics and catheters

>And given lube and training, it takes all of about a minute to insert
>an internal cath. Women have it a bit easier, as their urethra is a lot
>shorter, and pretty much a straight shot (none of the bends that making
>putting a cath in a male so tricky).

The disadvantage of female cathing is *finding* the urethral meatus. 
With the vagarities of human anatomy being what they are, there are a
multitude of areas it can be in to begin with, and in addition its location
and appearance can actually change over time with childbirth, aging,
etc. And the appearance itself can and does vary considerably from 
individual to individual, about 50% of the time, a good deal of searching
is required, and I've put in a shitload of caths. While once found, an 
individual female would know the general location of her meatus, it
is also in a rather inconvenient location as regards self-cathing. I can
definitely see it would take a good deal more flexibility and time than
using a condom cath in many cases. Everyone I know much prefers to
cath males, even considering the length of the urethra and the all to 
common problem of enlarged prostates to deal with...

>The "fun" part is dealing with the "solid waste". In space suits, the
>best we have so far are diapers (disposable diapers are a spinoff of
>the space program!)

There is also the dreaded "Fecal Pouch", about which the less said 
the better :)


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:23:54 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

My mistake Bruce, you're right.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:30:20 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Location:          Launceston, Tasmania (Aust)
Age:               on and off, 7 years (that's the core group, lots of
others have come and gone in that time)
Meeting Frequency: Once every 4-6 weeks
Group Size:        4 - 6+
Referees:          1 (myself... I won't relinquish control... he he eh eh)
Health:            (of group?) Mostly on hold due to my studies
Rules Mix:         70% TNE, 30% MT, Some House rules and a T4 background
(with a 			solid classic grounding)



>P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?
>What's an ideal critical mass?

I like groups of three to five people, at this size I can think of
adventures which involve the whole group that have a decent and thoughtful
plot. Above this size I tend to go for more action oriented material, as it
is hard to maintain peoples atttention with complicated plotlines with aa
large group. (that's not to say that I haven't successfully run a
complicated plotline with a group of 8 people, just that it is physically
tiring.)

As a side note, most of the players in the core group are 27 to 31 years of
age. Most of us hope to teach our kids how to roleplay. Is there anyone who
has done that already???? (can't wait... "dad... could you pass the d6" hee
hee hee.


Harry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:28:24 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller articles in old Dragon magazines, etc.

Could I get a copy of "Tesseracts"?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:36:25 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: MT missing tables?

Erwin Fritz wrote:

> Jory M. Earl wrote:
> >
>
> > You also won't find the errata on RAM grenades.  I had to call GDW for
> > that info.
>
> And have you made this errata available somewhere?
>
> :-)


I'll have to search diligently for it, I called them in 1990 and scribbled
the stuff down on a piece of paper.  God only knows where it is by now.
- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:41:39 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1839

> Most people seem to dislike GURPS for its char
> gen system but how that is handled is up to the ref. I like the combat
> system and the vehicle systems a lot.

Hmmm, a combat system in 1 sec rounds just makes my life difficult (and
yes I DO use the TNE combat system).

I would appreciate GURPS design systems a lot more if they did a one book
FF&S style thing for everything... and they could also save on the amount
of space they waste on equipment guides... but GURPS is not the biggest
offender in the RPG field, games like ShadowRun and CyberPunk use a whole
page for 1 item!

The character gen system would be fine if the players didn't know anything
about GURPS and were told to describe their character - then fit it to the
rules, rather than 'I want this, this, this and this...'

The task system is a bit weak from what my friends tell me, but I can't be
positive of that myself.

Yes I know art doesn't make a game, but GURPS ARTWORK SUCKS! I thought
MT's was bad, but GURPS takes the cake... can't they hire a few more 
artists with the amount of money they make? 

And in the end, I guess I don't like buying 6+ books for a basic SF
setting (That's why I avoid T4 too) and then having to error-proof them.
I've already had my share of errors being a veteran of MT.


David Moodie 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:34:58 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Ship Missions

Douglas wrote:

> ----------
> From:   CardSharks@aol.com[SMTP:CardSharks@aol.com]
> Sent:   Saturday, August 30, 1997 11:02 AM
> To:     traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject:        Ship Missions
>
> I am trying to fill out a table for ship design detailing various ship
> missions.
>
> Column 1 is the basic mission. Column 2 is a mission modifier.
>
> Does anyone care to make some suggestions?
>
> SHIP MISSIONS
> Code    Basic                   Suffix
>         A       Auxiliary               Armored
>         B       Battle                  -
>         C       Cruiser/Close/Carrier   Armed
>         D       Destroyer               -
>         E       Escort                  Escort
>         F       Fighter                 Fast
>         G       -                       Gun (Energy Weapons)
>         H       Hospital                        Heavy
>         I       Intelligence            -
>         J       -                       -
>         K       Cargo                   Stores (dry goods)
>         L       Liner (Personnel)       Light
>         M       Monitor                         Meson
>         N       -                       Missile (nuclear)
>         O       -                       -
>         P       Patrol                  -
>         Q       -                       -
>         R       Repair                  Rider
>         S       Scout                   Sensor
>         T       Tender                  Tanker (H2)
>         U       Multi-Use (Cargo/Liner) Unarmed (Civilian)
>         V       -                       -
>         W       -                       Supply (Weapons)
>         X       Experimental            -
>         Y       -                       -
>         Z       Scientific              Special Mission

            H    Planet
            N    Non-Standard
            U    Universal
            V    Modified
            Z    Ultra

For the 2nd column :

        I,J    Ship
        K     Seeker
        W    Corvette
        X     Fortress


- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:56:17 -0400
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

>You'd be surprised ;)  Actually, what is holding back the IC engine is
>not any inherent design "thingies", but the demands of the people that
>use them (who needs to go from 0-60 mph in under 5 seconds just to
>pick up the kids from daycare).  Gas economy and emissions are also
>major factors :)

You forgot to mention all the evil oil companies with their hidden safes
full of all the water carburetor plans they've bought up to keep them 
off the market :)


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:09:19 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Books and Scuds and stuff

There's a rather good book by Trevor Dupuy called 'Future Wars', which
takes history up to 1993 as is, then extrapolates events onwards. Several
conventional conflicts are dealt with, using the simulations system Dupuy
has developed. Events are then related as a historical account. We have
another Arab-Israeli war, a Pakistan-India punchup, etc.

For those of us interested in T2000 type scenarios, it's be a most
interesting read (Actually it's worth reading for its own sake as
entertainment - it's that good. But only if warfare doesn't bother you.)

Patriot Vs SCUD: Yeah, the patriot system wasn't as good as expected -
indeed there were casualties caused by bits of Patriot falling to earth.
But it did its job, which was as a counter to the 'terror weapon' effect of
the Scuds. Instead of the Israeli public demanding that 'something be
done', and possibly forcing Israel into the war (That would have been a
terrible thing. We might have seen an 'Arabs Vs Imperialistic Zionistic
Dogs' jihad, the activation of alliances... God knows.) the Israeli public
saw 'something' being done. Morale was bolstered. Thus an ineffective
weapon's very real psychological effect countered the real psychological
effect of another ineffective weapon. War is complicated, ain't it?

The effects were similar to the WWII bombing campaign over Germany. Other
than causing appalling civilian casualties, there was no great effect on
the German war production. Did the Allied commanders really think that the
German populace couldn't stand the bombing when British people managed it?
Perhaps. But all those troops wasted, firing inaccurate shells into the sky
every night were not overrunning Allied states. The AA guns and
searchlights were built instead of tanks and guns, thus  soaking up war
production.

The result? The bombing campaign DID have an effect on the outcome of the
war - but not for the reasons normally quoted (Strategic heavy bombing was
much less effective than the precision strikes made by, for example,
Mosquito aircraft. But the British public demanded big bombers dropping
bucketfulls of ordnance. Another psychological effect?). My point is that
the Patriot and the SCUD both played a role in the Gulf war. A civilian who
sees a defensive missile battery is reassured by it. When (s)he sees
missiles tearing up into the night sky, the thought is 'thank God for
Patriot. Think of how many of these missiles might get through if we DIDN'T
have it....' 

Don't write off the psych. effect of weapons. After all, unless you kill an
entire population, or break all their weapons and their means of making
more, then only way to end a war is to make the opposition want to stop
fighting. Perhaps in this war of wills, the psychological effect of weapons
is as great as their destructive power. Look at the A-bombs dropped on
Japan. More people died in the firebombing of Tokyo than in the nuclear
blast - but which weapon is hailed as the war-winner? 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:27:14 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1836

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:18:11 -0400, you wrote:

<many points of agreement snipped>

>>According to the MTrav "Referee's Companion", Antiviral vaccinations are 
>>TL10, well below the peak pre RoM TL12/13 level achieved *before* they 
>>conquered the ZS.
>
>This dosen't prove that they had found out how to make anti-viral vaccines
>at the time, merely that IF they had the knowledge then they had the
>technology to implement it (Think about it: It is quite possible to 
>concieve of a society where lenses are known, but telescopes have not
>been invented (The Earth was one such for several centuries). Such a 
>society would have the TL to manufacture telescopes, but they would not
>have telescopes.)

Well, yes and no. The problem with the TL rating system is that it has always
been used to show what a society (the Imperium) *had* at that TL, *NOT* what it
was capable of. Ergo, if its mentioned in "canon" that TL12 is related to
anti-viral tech, then they had anti-viral tech at TL12. That's the way its
always been.

Granted, I will agree that the Traveller TL system is, and always has been,
simplistic in the extreme and completely stuffed in this particular aspect --
and even that the adding of anti-viral tech at TL12 was probably the result of
the designers not making a connection between the possibilities of that and the
effects it would have on the PoD (or vice versa, depending on which was written
first). However, we still have it that anti-viral tech was available.

>>I still reckon that there is considerable evidence to suggest that the PoD 
>>was hyped out of all proportion to its actual effect(s).
>
>And that is the one point where I still disagree violently with you. I can
>find no canonical evidence that the PoD was hyped in any way. On the
>contrary, the sources we have treat the plague quite low-key. THey don't
>suggest that half the population of the Ziru Sirka perished or anything
>else like that. The most extravagant claim it makes (in the S&A article)
>is that on several planets the deaths led to the Terran immigrants 
>becoming the majority. Since we don't know what planets and how many
>Vilani there were on them beforehand, nor how many Terran immigrants
>moved to those planets, nor just when those planets were infected (it
>could have been early on, before anyone had realized the seriousness of
>the problem) that dosen't really seem so unlikely.
>
>What I think is that some of your opponents in previous discussions have
>misunderstood the canonical sources and hyped it out of all proportion,
>and you've been fighting that ghost ever since.

I think we can agree on that (at last :-)

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:45:01 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Marathon 2 Sub Merchant

>Found Marathon2 for the PC in the ol' bargain bin at my FLPCS today,
>and remember someone mentioning that one of the levels takes place in
>a Subsidized Merchant ship. Is that in this game, or Marathon 1? and
>which level is it I should look out for?
>

No it is not in the game (of course ;) but someone (no name on website?)
made a very nice map to use with Marathon. It is at:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275/marathon.html

It should also be noted that the website in question was built using Frontier.
Traveller, Frontier, Mac and Marathon - good choices all of them.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:03:56 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FF&S2-The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly

> The thing is, to make bombs from *non*-military reactors, you have to
> do a lot of re-processing of the fuel.

I was originally talking about improved fission being a viable alternative to 
fusion, as the ability to manipulate the strong (or is it weak?) force would 
assist fission just as much as fusion.

Someone contered that fission was "bad" (I have summarised heavily) due to the 
high availablity of bomb-making material.

To which I countered that would-be bomb makers can just buy the 
fission-powered vehicles on TL 8 worlds.


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:22:16 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Some stray thoughts

can you send me or post details on that IIRC thing?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:18:06 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

What is "3I"?

Remember, I've never seen anythign past MegaTraveller, so I'm out of
date.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:21:00 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

James Lindsay wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:46:22 -0700, Jory M. Earl wrote:
>
> > What I want are the books themselves.  I've looked for years for
> > Merchant Prince, Fighting Ships, Solomani Rim and Scouts.  Until I got
> > on ths list, i didn't even have an idea there were alien modules out.
>
> I've got a spare copy of Scouts if you're interested.
>
> James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
>   "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
>
> "Give me the strength to change the things I can,
>     the grace to accept the things I cannot,
>          and a great big bag of money."

 How much?  And BTW, is it better to write BELOW the quote, or post my reply
ABOVE the quote?  What does everyone think?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:43:55 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Wow!  You are practically "next door" to me in Camas, Wa..:)  I didn't
know anyone around these parts still played Traveller.

Douglas wrote:

> Location:       Portland, Or
> Age:            .5 years (after my military hiatus)
> Meeting Freq:   every 2 weeks
> Group Size:     5+
> Referees:       Just me
> Rules Mix:      T4 rules (80%), House (20%)
> Campaign:       Spinward Marches @ 1105



- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:45:49 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

Thanks.  I had originally came up with that idea years ago but no one
could really tell me if it was feasible or not.  I was trying to figure
out a way a Subsector could cut off all traffic to it except for
'authorized' traffic.

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > Would it be possible to put "scramblers" on jump routes, that would
> > prevent ships from being able to use the jump route?
>
> Unlikely. Assuming you can generate a big enough gravity well, you
> still have to get it in the path of the ship. And that path could pass
> thru quite a wide area. Several AU across.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1840
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 17 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1841



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: [none]
Re: Live Campaigns?
Erratta, errata, alleluia, alleluia
Re: Bad guys from the Core?
M:O campaign
Traveller groups
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: FF&S2 drop tanks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:14:26 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [none]

At 03:38 AM 9/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>   Anyone know where the USS Enterprise (WW II carrier) is these days? 
>I hope someone had the good sense to preserve her too (had a reputation
>nearly as good as Constitution's--fought at Midway and many other
>battles without being sunk).  She may be needed again.

Sorry Harold, but the USS Enterprise (2WW version) was sold for scrap on
1st July 1958 (Aircraft Carriers of the World, Roger Chesneau). It was
indeed a tragic loss, one going against the USN trend to preserve historic
ships. Reminds me of a shirt produced on HMS Ark Royal on her final cruise.
It proudly bore the message "I shaved in the Ark Royal, not with her"

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:40:17 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Location     :  Camas, Washington (in the northwest)
Age            :  33; Campaign is over 10 years old.
Meeting      :  Used to be once a week, now it's in Email.
Group Size :  5, more always welcome.  :)
Referees     : 1 <me>
Health         :  ?????  Don't know how to answer this one.
Rules Mix   : Classic Traveller 35%, MegaTraveller 15%, Gamma World 2nd
Edition 50%.

Errata          :  Supposedly 12,000 years in Earth's future.  Rule of
Man modified; Became a degenerate empire ruled with an iron fist from
it's central point, Earth.   (converted to a Ringworld)  The colonies
had revolted, and Imperial Fleets fought a war of anhiliation against
all the colony worlds.  Some few colonists escaped in ships to found the
3rd Imperium in the traveller setting.  This game starts in 1108 of that
Imperium.  The Sword Worlds leader Lucas Trask has fought the Imperial
Navy in Lanth after ceding the Sword Worlds subsector, and has suffered
a small setback as Imperial Forces, well entrenched on Lanth and in that
subsector, defeat his initial force.  Meanwhile Earth has been all but
forgotten.  The old Imperial forces of earth failed to find these
splinter colonies that fled it, for some reason.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:08:54 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Erratta, errata, alleluia, alleluia

>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:59:50 +1000 (EST)
>From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
>Subject: Re: MT Errata
>
>Everyone interested in MT errata:
>
>The files at ftp://elendor.sbs.nau.edu/pub/rpg/traveller/erratta cover all
>of MT's errors except the grenade & recoilless rifle prices. I have a
>table calculated using FF&S for this but I would appreciate the official
>tables from GDW of course... The only othe missing section is about jump
>travel times, which turned up in the Referee's Companion. Otherwise the
>files above should correct any printing of MT...
>
>							D.Moodie


Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:50:41 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Bad guys from the Core?

Ahh, dawn has finally broke upon my awareness, "3I" stands for "3rd Imperium"!!

I feal kinda dumb for not seeing that sooner..:)

Kenji Schwarz wrote:

> Roderick wrote:
>
> >Kenji wrote:
> >>Alas!  Woe!  I was starting to hope that, as the Imperium expanded, Famille
> >>Spofulam might set up a subsidiary among the Sayat to produce hm, how to
> >>describe it, adult military novelties?  I can see the advertising slogans
> >>now:  "We Put the Packing Back in Packing!"
> >>
> >
> >        Yikes :).  That sounds really, um, painful...  One can just
> >visualize the looks of horror of customers on both sides of an inadvertent
> >mislabelling mishap...
>
> Heh, that reminds me of... er, um, no, let's leave my dating history out of
> this...
>
> >        Could lead to entire units getting disbanded over rumours of sexual
> >depravity following desperate last stands: "They repelled that Zhodani
> >Consular Guard unit hand to hand using _*WHAT*_?!".
> >
> >        And as far as the Zho are concerned, just imagine what they'd start
> >thinking of the 3I after that little incident; add unspeakable perversity
> >to mendacity, deviousness, and sociopathy...
>
> In the course of cooking up more about the Sayat, I realized that their
> reaction to the Zhodani will make that of the Impies look merely
> uncordial... the Zhos being, of course, the willing puppet-creatures of the
> demons of the Outer Void, a.k.a. "Droyne"...  besides being bellowing
> bisexual bumpkins.
>
> I don't see the Sayat as becoming part of the 3I. More like a client state
> of the Hiver Federation, I think.  If that.
>
> I've got something like 120K of .TXT of almost-finalized crap about these
> critters now -- too much to post to the list, anyway.  Maybe time to see
> about getting a webpage and put 'em up there, along with our working
> materials on Vilani linguistics... talk about cultural diversity <G>
>
> >        But since Marc seems to be positioning T4 as wholesome family
> >entertainment, let's just stop there before FS starts deciding to improve
> >on foot-long prehensile... oh, let's just not go there, shall we :)?
>
> But -- but -- Spofulam can't leave *yet*!  The proposed expansion to FF&S2
> is going to include "wetware"!
>
> Kenji Schwarz
> kenji@accessone.com



- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:00:31 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: M:O campaign

Well my copy finally arrived today. Since I was charged in July, I will say
I'm not impressed with the delivery time. However that is a relatively
minor quibble. On to the book proper

Physical quality is very good. The binding is robust and should last well.
I would have used a heavier card for the cover, but that is a very minor
point. Someone got a little heavy handed with the glue in my copy and two
of the pages were stuck together, but that can happen in any print run and
was easily fixed with a little gentle pursuassion.

The only new content appears to be the 34 new pages in M:0, but this new
content is all good stuff. A timeline with a paragraph explaining major
events; a detailed coverage of the pacification campaigns (both pro and
anti viewpoints, a definite plus) with special emphasis on the failed
Antarean campaign; a chart detailing the expansion of the Imperium by
sector; coverage of some of the rivals of the 3I (a little brief, but still
good); 7 adventure plots in 76 patrons format; a detailed adventure (good
but with another damn virus; could adventure writers please check their
biology, there are other disease pathogens than viruses; and they actually
can work from alien environments!); and finally rules for expanding the
UWP, including detailed rules for expanding the law level profile.

All of this new material is good, the new background (actually most of
it is simply restatement of stuff from old out of print CT and MT
material, but remember access to that material can prove difficult now)
is well laid out and greatly adds to the feel of the Milleu. The
adventure plots are useful, the full adventure appears to be reasonable
except for the virus (I'd recommend replacing the virus with a bacteria
or protoza), and the UWP extension rules are useful (even if the do have
"fix" written all over them). I'm certain there's going to be a lot of
complaints about the use of the old data from FS, but this can be worked
round (me, I simply rerolled the LL for each world, not as time consuming
as one might think, just do it when the world comes into play).

The FS section doesn't appear to have been altered, even with the new
extended LL profile this is a major gripe. I can sort of except the LL
fix, but there are still just too many high tech worlds lurking out
there. Still with the LL fix the data does become playable (but only
just).

Overall I'd rate it as 7 out of 10. Only one question though. What the
heck was the "American Division" that Marc did his tour in Vietnam with?
May I hazzard a guess that its a typo for "Americal"?

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:55:19 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller groups

Robert Eaglestone asked about gaming groups:

I joined an existing gaming group 2 1/2 years ago - I don't know how long
it'd been running. My previous group wound up after 4 years or so - a
massed emigration/relocation left me all but alone!

The group I joined is a spinoff from a Sunday Evening club (quite large,
with wargamers too, but I don't attend.) THe spinoff group meets every
week, with a ref and 5 players. There have been up to 8, but with this vast
number someone is going to get sick and stop coming - thankfully!

The 5 players are really too many - we have a 'misdirected chat' problem,
which isn't so bad since I shot one of the players out of hand last week
(OK - I threw a cushion, but the efect was remarkably similar). Point is:
the best Traveller I've played recently was as one of 2 players. The best
RQ I ran had 2 players, too. I like three or four (hand-picked!) players
for my RQ campaign - it's an invitation-only occasional game, unlike the
Traveller campaign.

Until recently we ran a different game each week in rotation. Now we have a
common Traveller (M0) campaign with two referees (soon to be three)
participating. 85% of the rules are straight out of the book, 10% tweaks
and 5% common sense (except when I'm reffing, in which case it's 100%
guess-at-something-which-might-be-in-the-rulebook, since I'm terrible at
remembering rules and renowned for not opening the books for months on end.
Still, if it's realistic, nobody minds.

Five players is a maximum, in my opinion. Any more and the munchies run out
too fast!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:46:02 +0100
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

At 11:29 16/09/97 EDT, Robert Eaglestone wrote:
>Location:          Ilford, Essex, UK
>Age:               3 months
>Meeting Frequency: Once every 3 to 8 weeks, unfortunately ;-(
>Group Size:        3 (more wanted!)
>Referees:          1 (me)
>Health:            Static
>Rules Mix:         85-ish% T4, rest House

	See ya...
>
>P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?
>What's an ideal critical mass?

	About seven or so I'd guess, but depends entirely on scenario. Can't
comment really, haven't had to deal with this!


Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:16:54 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 drop tanks

> 
> Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 16 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1838
> 
> 
> 
> (R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
> All rights reserved.
> 
> The following topics are covered in this digest:
> 
> [none]
> Re: American Jingoism
> re:Some stray thoughts
> Re: FFS2 Drop tanks
> Re: America 2300ad
> Re: Fighter Quality
> CSC To FFS2 Armor Value Conversions(Long)
> Personal Armor Spreadsheet Version 1.2
> Re: Jump in Traveller
> Re: How to get things done!
> Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832
> Live Campaigns?
> Re: Imperial Military
> Re: Gravity Advice
> MegaTraveller Errata.
> Re: Hackett, Ing
> Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth
> using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:37:19 +0100
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: [none]
> 
> Harold writes:
> 
> >  Then it would be up to those Los Angeles-class subs to take care of
> >things.  Failing that, you would have the ASW units, some of those old
> >modified Essex-class carriers that could be recommisioned, and of course
> >numerous other mothballed vessels including *real* battleships.  I don't
> >think the French would be stupid enough, however, to challenge our
> >ultimate weapon...
> >
> >   ...the U.S.S. Constitution.  Fully functional and operational once
> >again.  How well would all that wood show up on French radar screens?
> >:-)
> 
> But if it's us against you... we'll have to help the French (!!!) by
> sending HMS Victory and recommissioning the Mary Rose. <g>
> 
> >   I don't even want to get into what would happen to France afterwards
> ><shutter>.
> 
> Depends if they admitted to it... eg here you are son. I want you to take
> this highly important diplomatic package on the flight to New York
> (for-ex). "Please fasten your seat belts for the approach to JFK <BOOM>"
> 
> Dom (scared by the thought of nuclear terrorism after talking to some
> friends who worked making nukes).
> 
> - ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
> "Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
> "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:46:31 +0100
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: Re: American Jingoism
> 
> Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
> >Dom Wrote:
> >
> >>How good the French technology is would be interesting - I mean, the UK
> >>developed its systems from US power and weapon systems., but the French
> >>went it alone.
> >
> ><put on strong PR accent>
> >
> >Sorry to disapoint you 'old boy' ... but the Americans didn't give us a
> >jot of help untill we managed to detonante a nuclear device off the
> >cost of Australia, and then a thermal nuclear device off bikkini
> >island. The US then thought that a rekindalling of the 'special arangment'
> >was a good idear as 'old blighty' became a nuclear player.
> >
> ><drop strong PR accent>
> >
> >We only brought US missiles after we had proved we could do it ourselves
> >... :-)
> 
> Fair point - I am well aware of the UK efforts in this field - warhead
> design and technology has been in ongoing development in the country since
> the 40's. HOWEVER we bought both the SS(B)N power plant and launcher
> (Polaris/Trident) off the USA following the cancellation of our own missile
> projects. Oh, for the TSR2 to have been deployed! ;-)
> 
> 
> Dom
> 
> - ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
> "Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
> "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:01:56 +0100
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: re:Some stray thoughts
> 
> Michael Peters wrote:
> 
> 
> >To "prove" my point... There has been much debate about the virus
> >episode in Gateway, (I've just purchased it and am not familiar with the
> >details so I won't comment on that), and how it breaks with the Vilani
> >susceptibility to decease during the RoM. However no one has yet made
> >mention of the biggest Conon-breaker of all in TLH and Gateway! Why, if
> >there is a "fast transit" gate way between an area near Core and
> >Gushemege, even if an unstable one, wouldn't this have an affect at
> >least in CT and MT? Now I don't want to hear about it was an Imperial
> >Secret or some such! It wasn't "invented" yet is the answer, and if it
> >had been it would have had an affect in the "later" history of the 3I,
> >even if only as a foot note. What I am trying to say is, that unless we
> >are willing to tie our hands to the point of inactivity, adventures in
> >M:0 will always have the possibility to twist some point of Canon.
> 
> IIRC it is an Ancients Artifact, somewhere between Pocket Universes and
> J-Drive. It may put a twist in canon, but that could just be a better
> understanding of Jump theory and an earlier reaching of J4 technology...
> 
> 
> Or it is an artifact *beyond* the comprehension of the Imperials
> investigating it (see Iain Banks' Excession for more ideas on this)? It
> doesn't have to have a major impact....
> 
> Dom
> Dom
> 
> - ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
> "Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
> "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 14:06:25 -0400
> From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
> Subject: Re: FFS2 Drop tanks
> 
> Dom Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
> Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> >> [Drop tanks] Not so much late any TL, but late historically.
> >> Which would be completely in accord with canon
> 
> I think that all we know from canon sources is that "high-capacity"
> passenger service was instituted at Regina in the 1100s, and was considered
> nifty at the time.  We know that this high-capacity service used drop tanks,
> because a drop-tank failure caused the loss of a passenger ship.
> 
> What we _don't_ know from canon material is whether or not drop tanks were:
> 1) A new innovation at that time, or
> 2) A new innovation in passenger service, or
> 3) Long-established in passenger service elsewhere, but used in the Marches
>    for the first time, or
> 4) Long-established for special (military) purposes, but being used in
>    passenger service in the Marches for the first time, or
> 5) A well-established practice that normally wasn't considered newsworthy,
>    except in this case because the drop-tanks were the cause of the loss
>    of the ship.
> 
> As far as I'm aware, there are no canon sources that conclusively establish
> that drop tanks were NOT in use prior to the early 1100s.  There is some
> small evidence to suggest that drop tanks WERE used (at least by the
> Imperial military) earlier than the 1100s: I believe that it's mentioned in
> _Trillion Credit Squadron_ that the Imperial strike cruiser that misjumped
> into the Islands Cluster eventually repaired it's drive and jumped accross
> the rift to Imperial space using drop tanks.  This would have happened
> before the early 1100s, but I don't remember when (3rd Frontier War? 4th?).
> 
> >> I'm waiting for the day some M:0 author or ship designer decides to use
> >> a drop tank. That _will_ be a canon breaker (Did FF&S2 say anything about
> >> drop tanks, btw?).
> 
> > the drop tanks are in, and there is no mention of their late deployment in
> > the Imperium. So it is potentially a canon breaker.
> 
> The drop tanks are included, with no TL or Milieu restrictions.  This is
> only a "canon breaker" if you subscribe to interpretation #1 above as Hans
> does.  I don't (my position is somewhere between #4 and #5)*.  FF&S2 also
> does not provide for Hans' improvement in Jump Drive capacitor technology
> that enables the use of drop tanks in his interpretation.
> 
> 
> * If you're curious, my position is that drop tanks have some degree of
>   inherent risk - if you use them regularly, there's a small but non-zero
>   chance of having your own Trimhanka-Brilliance disaster (note that this
>   level of risk is NOT described in FF&S2).
> 
>   For military operations during a war, this is usually an acceptable risk,
>   and Imperial warships are prepared to use drop tanks when a mission
>   profile calls for it.
> 
>   Drop tanks aren't used for merchant operations because of the risk.  The
>   insurance underwriters don't want to carry the risk (even though it's
>   relatively small)+, so the policies on your ship either become void or
>   MUCH more expensive if you use drop tanks.  This means that the small
>   shippers (who invariably purchase ships with standard bank loans, and
>   must carry insurance for the bank) can't use drop tanks.
> 
>   Tukera is large enough that it can "self-insure" (that is, they have a big
>   enough bank account to pay any claims, no insurance needed).  Because of
>   this, Tukera could experiment with technology that was unavailable to
>   their smaller competition. 
> 
>   Tukera is used to holding a monopoly on the major passenger and trade
>   routes; normally this leads to a very conservative approach.  But in
>   the Marches they had effective competition, particularly from Oberlindes
>   operating from Regina.  Thus, Oberlindes tried using drop tanks, knowing
>   that Oberlindes wouldn't be able to effectively compete against it. 
>   UNfortunately for Tukera, a drop-tank accident destroyed a ship and
>   nearly everyone on it relatively shortly after inagurating the service.
> 
> 
> + Insurance underwriters - particularly for large, expensive items like
>   ships and their cargoes, tend to be conservative, and react VERY badly to
>   elements of risk.  In the War of 1812, US privateers (like John Paul
>   Jones) operating near England managed to severaly hurt British trade.
>   But not because of the shipping destroyed or captured (which was a
>   relatively small fraction).
> 
>   The US privateers caused enough havoc, and the Royal Navy seemed unwilling
>   or unable to stop them, that insurance rates doubled or tripled.  This
>   caused the shippers considerable financial pain, since that money came
>   out of the shipper's profit margins, at least in the short term.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:47:20 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Dartek@aol.com
> Subject: Re: America 2300ad
> 
> :)  So how did you like the BMP-3?
> Yup, still called the T-90.  Heard they are already developing another
> generation after that too....
> Ahh, yes, the T2K T-90.. Yes, that is a load of cr*p..
> :)
> L8r
> Ken
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:25:43 -0400 (EDT)
> From: XatoKuom@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Fighter Quality
> 
> In a message dated 97-09-16 12:26:25 EDT, you write:
> 
> << 
>     Not quite true - the Mig-29 and the Su-27 (the Mig-31 doesn't even
>  qualify) are _almost_ as good as the F-15.  >>
> 
> The Su-27 and the F-15 are quite close, however, in performance
> characteristics.  In particular, thrust-to-weight ratio actually favors the
> Su-27 Flanker.
> 
> The Su-35, the new and improved digital FBW Flanker, also has additional
> canards mounted below the canopy which give unparalleled manuverability.  So,
> in summation, we have a fighter with a smaller radar cross section, more
> power and manuverability and a modern FBW system.
> 
> The only reason the new Flanker-B/D(?) can't compare in a one on one battle
> is due to the vastly superior training of the average Western fighter jock.
>  For crying out loud, the Russian government can't even pay their troops, but
> once or twice a year.  By the way, what happened to our good friend, Gen.
> Alexandr Lebed?
> 
> Scott Quigg(XatoKuom@aol.com)
> In the Navajo tongue,  Kemo Sabe means "soggy bush"
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:49:58 -0500
> From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
> Subject: CSC To FFS2 Armor Value Conversions(Long)
> 
> Below is table for converting from CSC to FFS2 armor values. It can be to
> convert FFS2 to CSC values also.
> 
> To make this table I used the *hard steel* standard, ie converted using the
> value for hard steel in each system.
> 
> I can send a HTML version for those that might want to post it on a webpage.
> 
> Usage:
> CM=centimeters of hard steel
> CSC=CSC armor value
> FFS2-FFS2 armor value
> All values rounded to the nearest .5
> 
> Look up a armor value of 20 in FFS2, well that comes out to seven
> centimeters of hard steel and a CSC armor value of 11. A CSC armor value of
> 20 comes to value of 103 in  FFS2 or 36 cm of hard steel.
> 
> CM    CSC   FFS2     CM    CSC    FFS2
> 0.01   1     0       110   28     315
> 0.02   2     0       120   29     343
> 0.03   2     0       130   30     372
> 0.04   2     0       140   31     400
> 0.05   2     0       150   31     429
> 0.06   2     0       160   32     458
> 0.07   2     0       170   33     486
> 0.08   3     0       180   33     515
> 0.09   3     0       190   34     543
> 0.1    3     0       200   34     572
> 0.2    4     1       210   35     601
> 0.3    4     1       220   36     629
> 0.4    4     1       230   36     658
> 0.5    5     1       240   37     686
> 0.6    5     2       250   37     715
> 0.7    5     2       260   38     744
> 0.8    6     2       270   38     772
> 0.9    6     3       280   39     801
> 1      6     3       290   39     829
> 2      8     6       300   39     858
> 3      9     9       310   40     887
> 4      9     11      320   40     915
> 5      10    14      330   41     944
> 6      11    17      340   41     972
> 7      11    20      350   41     1,001
> 8      12    23      360   42     1,030
> 9      12    26      370   42     1,058
> 10     13    29      380   43     1,087
> 11     13    31      390   43     1,115
> 12     14    34      400   43     1,144
> 13     14    37      410   44     1,173
> 14     14    40      420   44     1,201
> 15     15    43      430   44     1,230
> 16     15    46      440   45     1,258
> 17     15    49      450   45     1,287
> 18     16    51      460   45     1,316
> 19     16    54      470   46     1,344
> 20     16    57      480   46     1,373
> 21     16    60      490   46     1,401
> 22     17    63      500   47     1,430
> 23     17    66      510   47     1,459
> 24     17    69      520   47     1,487
> 25     17    72      530   48     1,516
> 26     18    74      540   48     1,544
> 27     18    77      550   48     1,573
> 28     18    80      560   48     1,602
> 29     18    83      570   49     1,630
> 30     18    86      580   49     1,659
> 31     19    89      590   49     1,687
> 32     19    92      600   50     1,716
> 33     19    94      610   50     1,745
> 34     19    97      620   50     1,773
> 35     19    100     630   50     1,802
> 36     20    103     640   51     1,830
> 37     20    106     650   51     1,859
> 38     20    109     660   51     1,888
> 39     20    112     670   51     1,916
> 40     20    114     680   52     1,945
> 41     20    117     690   52     1,973
> 42     21    120     700   52     2,002
> 43     21    123     710   52     2,031
> 44     21    126     720   53     2,059
> 45     21    129     730   53     2,088
> 46     21    132     740   53     2,116
> 47     21    134     750   53     2,145
> 48     22    137     760   54     2,174
> 49     22    140     770   54     2,202
> 50     22    143     780   54     2,231
> 51     22    146     790   54     2,259
> 52     22    149     800   54     2,288
> 53     22    152     810   55     2,317
> 54     22    154     820   55     2,345
> 55     23    157     830   55     2,374
> 56     23    160     840   55     2,402
> 57     23    163     850   56     2,431
> 58     23    166     860   56     2,460
> 59     23    169     870   56     2,488
> 60     23    172     880   56     2,517
> 61     23    174     890   56     2,545
> 62     23    177     900   57     2,574
> 63     24    180     910   57     2,603
> 64     24    183     920   57     2,631
> 65     24    186     930   57     2,660
> 66     24    189     940   57     2,688
> 67     24    192     950   58     2,717
> 68     24    194     960   58     2,746
> 69     24    197     970   58     2,774
> 70     24    200     980   58     2,803
> 71     24    203     990   58     2,831
> 72     25    206     1,000  59    2,860
> 73     25    209     1,100  61    3,146
> 74     25    212     1,200  62    3,432
> 75     25    215     1,300  64    3,718
> 76     25    217     1,400  66    4,004
> 77     25    220     1,500  67    4,290
> 78     25    223     1,600  68    4,576
> 79     25    226     1,700  70    4,862
> 80     25    229     1,800  71    5,148
> 81     26    232     1,900  72    5,434
> 82     26    235     2,000  74    5,720
> 83     26    237     3,000  84    8,580
> 84     26    240     4,000  93    11,440
> 85     26    243     5,000  100   14,300
> 86     26    246     6,000  106   17,160
> 87     26    249     7,000  111   20,020
> 88     26    252     8,000  116   22,880
> 89     26    255     9,000  121   25,740
> 90     26    257     10,000 125   28,600
> 91     27    260			
> 92     27    263			
> 93     27    266			
> 94     27    269			
> 95     27    272			
> 96     27    275			
> 97     27    277			
> 98     27    280			
> 99     27    283			
> 100    27    286			
> 
> Any questions, cheap shots, etc let me know.
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> - -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
> (c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
> Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
> Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
> - -----------------------------------------------------
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:24:50 -0700
> From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
> Subject: Personal Armor Spreadsheet Version 1.2
> 
> I've modified my FF&S1 Personal Armor Excel spreadsheet. Some minor changes
> were made to the battledress sheet and a few corrections were made to the
> flexible armor sheet. It's at:
> 
> http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/locker/locker.html
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris Griffen
> 
> ===================================================
> Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.
> 
> http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml
> 
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------------
> Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
> Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
> NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:50:39 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Would it be possible to put "scramblers" on jump routes, that would
> > prevent ships from being able to use the jump route?
> 
> Unlikely. Assuming you can generate a big enough gravity well, you
> still have to get it in the path of the ship. And that path could pass
> thru quite a wide area. Several AU across.
> 
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:08:06 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: How to get things done!
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > What about using ground-based lasers to lift small cargo ship into low earth
> > orbit?
> 
> It's been discussed. But you need a gigawatt beam for about 5 tons of ship.
> 
> I rather like laser launch systems as they can provide a nasty surprise
> to anybody attacking the port (a gigawatt laser with a ROF of 60 to 100
> times *per second* is gonna ruin your day :-)
> 
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:13:04 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1832
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > One excellant book on a post nuke world is of course David Brin's "The
> > Postman", I'm suprised nobodies mentioned it before (p'haps its cos of
> > GURPS: uplift wars :*) ). Not only is it a darn good read, but it
> > provides an excellant backdrop and future timeline for a T2K world.
> 
> They are filming the movie version of "The Postman" currently.
> 
> - -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: 16 Sep 1997 11:29 EDT
> From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
> Subject: Live Campaigns?
> 
> Dear Travellers,
> 
> I'd like to take an informal poll.  How many of you are active
> in a Traveller campaign right now?  Are there some campaigns
> that have multiple representation on TML?  Has anyone tried to
> tally these numbers before?  How large is the average living
> campaign today?
> 
> And, just to make things complex, what is your rules system mix
> for your campaign?
> 
> Location:          Richardson, TX
> Age:               1.5 years
> Meeting Frequency: Once every 3 weeks
> Group Size:        6+
> Referees:          2+
> Health:            Growing
> Rules Mix:         80% T4, 20% CT, House
> 
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?
> What's an ideal critical mass?
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:53:02 -0500 (CDT)
> From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
> Subject: Re: Imperial Military
> 
> You wrote: 
> 
> >seperate me and a soldier form Dallas when we were roomates.  Seems 
> putting
> >a Cowboys fan and a 493r Faithful in the same room was a mistake 
> during
> >football season...
> 
> Amen!  
> 
> >I wrote up a description of how the Army is staffed, funded, and 
> organized
> >a while ago.. if anyone is interested, I could repost it.
> 
> Please do so.
> 
> John M. Atkinson
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:53:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
> Subject: Re: Gravity Advice
> 
> > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:30:16 +0000
> > From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> > 
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > 
> > > Note: the above is assuming that the Zilans *are* native, or that their
> > > ancestors came to the planet long enough ago (millienia at least!) for
> > > them to be adapted to the planet. If it's a colony that's only been
> > > there a few generations, then they are *potentially* just as strong as
> > > the players. But it may take them years of hard work to "adapt" to
> > > normal gravity.
> > 
> > Hmmm.  The Spinward Marches was settled in the 600's.  My campaign is
> > currently in 1105.  That means that the Zilan natives have only been
> > there for 500 years.
> > 
> > So, you are saying that Zilan natives will be just like my PCs who are
> > going there?
> 
> No, not at all.  *Genetically*, they'd be indistinguishable from other 1-g
> humaniti (assuming that's what grav the first Zilan settlers came from, of
> course).  Let two Zilan parents conceive a child on a 1-g world (probably
> by artificial insemination...), let her carry it to term there (with
> constant medical attention, and at some risk to her life), and raise the
> resulting child there, and you'll see a normal 1-g human as a result.
> 
> However, nature is only half of the nature+nurture equation.  Human bones
> and muscles develop in the ways we're all familiar with partly *because*
> we spend our entire lives in a 1-g field.  As Russian medical experiments
> have shown, bone mass, calcium levels, and muscle tone all drop
> precipitously in 0-g; presumably similar though less severe effects would
> occur in 1/5 gee as on Zila.  Zilans living on Zila would tend to have
> thin, brittle bones, and perhaps carry too much mass for their frames
> (relative to the 1-g 'norm').  They *might* tend to be a few inches
> taller, simply because the skeleton would be compressed less.
> 
> Put one of these people into a 1-g field, though, and you'd have a very
> unhappy invalid.  Have you ever been off your feet for any significant
> length of time (say, due to illness or injury)?  Remember that horrible
> wobbly, weak feeling you had trying to walk after not using your legs for
> a few weeks?  That might approximate how a Zilan would feel in 1-g -- *at
> first*, perhaps for as much as a year or two.  Following that, they'd
> probably be more or less acclimated, though the bones might remain a bit
> weaker than average permanently.
> 
> > I've got a problem here.  Maybe it is a problem with sci-fi and real
> > science in general.
> > 
> > Zila is a major agricultural center in the Aramis subsector.  Some of
> > you have heard of the famous Zilan eiswein.  There are three major
> > wineries there who ship product all over the Spinward Marches and into
> > Vargr space.
> > 
> > Now, when you read about Zila in the module (The Traveller Adventure),
> > it is really just like any other planet.  It is earth-like, standard
> > atmosphere, lush and pretty, and conducive to growing grapes.
> > 
> > Then, I run the planet through the WBG, and I get all of the things it
> > is supposed to be except the gravity.
> > 
> > Now, I'm stuck with a sci-fi planet that has really low grav.  That's
> > OK, except I'm not sure how these people ever leave their planet.
> > 
> > And, there are several planets like this in the Imperium.  Communities
> > in space stations and on moons I can handwave away by saying that the
> > facility they are in have tuned grav plates to 1G.  But, of all these
> > low tech worlds--especially the ones who have breathable atmospheres
> > and, thus, aren't always inside a faciltiy, these people are getting
> > pretty used to the gravity pull of the world.
> > 
> > If it is such a problem for humans to live here, then why was the place
> > settled 500 years ago in the first place!
> > 
> > I need a handwave, a head thought, something to feel better about this.
> 
> I certainly share your concern about this...my 'pet' world, Quopist in the
> Marches, is a size *1* world with a thin atmosphere.  Just explaining how
> that can be is hard; answering your questions is still harder.
> 
> This gets into the broader issue that Trav worlds are all too often
> described by refs or adventures without really taking into account their
> UPPs.  A dense, tainted atmosphere (for example) would be the first thing
> you'd notice about a new planet on arrival, and would affect *everything*
> about daily life, city design, settlement patterns, transport, and so
> forth on that planet.  But one frequently sees world write-ups that just
> ignore this.
> 
> Anyway, here are some handwaves you might try out for the low-gee-natives
> problem:
> 
> * A miracle drug becomes available at highish TLs which helps the
>   body acclimate far more quickly and easily.  A nanotech or viral
>   agent would work best here.  A likely side effect would be voracious
>   hunger for high calcium and protein foods, as all the added bone and
>   muscle mass has to come from somewhere.  The Imperium subsidizes
>   production and distribution of this drug as part of its trade
>   enhancement program, and it's automatically included (if needed) in
>   the standard costs of starship travel, and in the cost of ship's
>   provisions per FF&S.
> 
> * Natives wishing to travel off-planet eventually spend 1-3 hours per
>   day working out in 1-g gyms.  Additionally, some children (rich ones,
>   or all on wealthy worlds with subsidies) spend still more of their time
>   in 1-g settings in order to foster their proper bone and muscle
>   development.  Pregnant women might do the same to provide for proper
>   fetal development.
> 
> * We really don't have any data on the effects of low gravity on humans --
>   just 1 and 0.  Perhaps even as little as a tenth of a g is much less
>   harmful than our current models indicate.  This would translate into
>   faster and easier acclimation.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>    |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
>  --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
>    |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
>        "Every man and every woman is a star."
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:08:14 -0400 (EDT)
> From: SemoFetus@aol.com
> Subject: MegaTraveller Errata.
> 
> There are several people out there who have expressed an interest in
> MegaTraveller Errata.  A couple of big MT Errata files can be found at the
> ftp site:
> 
> ftp://elendor.sbs.nau.edu/pub/rpg/traveller/
> 
> I think the next directory down is erratta (sic) and that's where you'll find
> the stuffs.  I hope this helps those of you who were asking.
> 
> Semo (the Samaritan [the good one!  really!])
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:27:04 -0700
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
> Subject: Re: Hackett, Ing
> 
> >Folks have already mentioned "The Third World War" by Gen. Hackket.
> >There's also a sequel running around. I have it, but it's in storage.
> 
>   "WW 3 - The Twilight Struggle" or somesuch - same war, but in 
> secondary theaters, and non-conventional aspects.
> >
> >Dean Ing wrote a series of three books that start with the above
> >"history" as background and go on with some more fighting and sneak
> >attacks etc. The first book is "Systemic Shock". I can't recall the
> >titles of the other two right now.
> 
>   "Single Combat" (highly recommended) and "Wild Country".
> 
>         Steven Hudson
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:55:46 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Dartek@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth
> 
> In a message dated 97-09-16 03:36:06 EDT, you write:
> 
> << > Actually, if the leagility part does not bother you making a pirate
> radio or<<
> <snip>
> 
> Who said anything about getting caught?
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:47:47 -0400
> From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
> Subject: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
> 
>   Hello everyone. I've been reading posts to the TML archive off andon for a while now, and just recently subscribed.  Me and my
>   friends started out playing CT, and then bought MT when it came
>   out. We now use MT rules with the CT setting, which will
>   eventually lead to the Shattered Imperium.  I have a few questions:
> Presently, our party is situated on a vacuum world (Dinom, in the
> Lanth sub-sector). My questions relates to which personal weapon
> would and would not work in a vacuum atmosphere.  I would think that
> most firearms would not work, such as pistols, rifles, etc. Would an
> ACR work? (BTW, can someone explain to me what DS amo is ?
> Discarding sabot...???...) I think probably not. What about an ARL? I believe a gauss
> weapon would work (battery in each clip...). Laser rifles, FGMP's and PGMP's would work quite nicely. Would grenades work? Help me out here, people.
> 
> 
> ciao,
> 
> Denis Allain
> New-Brunswick, Canada
> mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1838
> ***********************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1841
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 17 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1842



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Point about what a TL means
Traveller campaign
From the Home Office: Focus Statement
Cost of hiring mercs
Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
Testing
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!
RE: Live Campaigns?
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Books and Scuds and stuff
Sensors
Re: French hardware, etc.
Re: [none]
Re: Cost of hiring mercs
Re: The politics of money (was RE: The Imperial Credit: What's It Worth?)
Re: [none]
Re: Hackett
Re: From the Home Office: Focus Statement
Re: GURPs Traveller
Re: Live Campaigns Survey
Re: Live Campaigns

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:35:56 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Point about what a TL means

Phillip McGregor writes:
>>>According to the MTrav "Referee's Companion", Antiviral vaccinations are 
>>>TL10, well below the peak pre RoM TL12/13 level achieved *before* they 
>>>conquered the ZS.
>>
>>This dosen't prove that they had found out how to make anti-viral vaccines
>>at the time, merely that IF they had the knowledge then they had the
>>technology to implement it (Think about it: It is quite possible to 
>>concieve of a society where lenses are known, but telescopes have not
>>been invented (The Earth was one such for several centuries). Such a 
>>society would have the TL to manufacture telescopes, but they would not
>>have telescopes.)
> 
>Well, yes and no. The problem with the TL rating system is that it has always
>been used to show what a society (the Imperium) *had* at that TL, *NOT* what 
>it was capable of. Ergo, if its mentioned in "canon" that TL12 is related to
> anti-viral tech, then they had anti-viral tech at TL12. That's the way its
> always been.

It isn't as clear-cut as that. There are some inventions that more or less
defines some TLs. You can't have a Robotics TL of 12 without being able to
build TL 12 robots. But other TLs clearly defines potential rather than
specific capabilities. Otherwise the RoM would also have had drop tanks
and Fusion+, the inventor of lenses would also have invented telescopes,
and the Scout ship that wound up in the Islands Cluster wouldn't have been
able to get their jump drive repaired.

You can argue that if a society isn't of a sufficiently high TL then it
can't have this and that artifact (and even there you run into the question 
of experimental tech and hand-crafted one-offs (there are examples of 
revolvers built in the mid 18th century, for example)), but you can't argue 
the other way about everything. I'd accept that if you can demonstrate
that the knowledge already exists, then you can assume that the capability
implies the existense of the technology. But AFAIK there is no mention of 
anti-viral remedies during the Interstellar Wars in any of the published 
material (I wonder: could that be what Duskir et alii invented?).



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:47:31 -0400
From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
Subject: Traveller campaign

Location:          Moncton, NB, Canada
Age:               10 years
Meeting Frequency: Temporarily off-line (would like it to be 1 or
2/month)
Group Size:        2
Referees:          1
Health:            Need more serious players
Rules Mix:         90% MT, 10% CT
Campaign:          Spinward Marches @ 1106



ciao,

Denis Allain
New-Brunswick, Canada
mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:56:19 -0400
From: Rob Miracle <rwm@MPGN.COM>
Subject: From the Home Office: Focus Statement

I wish I had time to read every message in detail that flys through here,
so I am a little at fault for letting things get to a point where I have to
issue a list wide reminder, but hey, I haven't done it in a while, so here
goes.

Please refrain from insultory comments.  Please keep the list focused on
Traveller and related products.  While occasional references to our real
world history/society/physics and such aid our attempts to play Traveller
the best that it can be played, threads that begin to debate the moralty of
a give historical war are best expressed in private email or on an
appropriate forum.  Instead, please debate the morality of the Zhodani
attack on Jewell in 1110.

Rob,
Your List Admin

PS.  (Ad Alert), Your kind hosts at MPG-Net would appreciate your
patronage.  Drop by http://www.mpgn.com/ to learn more about their
wonderful online gaming world.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:49:38 -0400
From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
Subject: Cost of hiring mercs

I'm trying to figure out how much it would cost to hire a Mercenary unit. Let
us take an example: hiring a band of mercs with a mercenary cruiser star-ship
(std 800 ton Imperial Encyclopedia, MT). I know how to calculate crew salary,
so that isn't the problem.  I'm assuming that the bill would include fuel cost
to and back from the designated work place. MT cost for fuel is Cr500 for
refined, and Cr100 for unrefined (per kl). which would they charge? (Dinom,
where they would be employed, has no refined fuel) I was thinking of charging
crew salary for the duration (1 month), plus fuel cost (debating whether to
charge 500 or 100 per), plus soldier ordinances (which could be Cr10,000 per
soldier???), plus a percentage of the value of the vessel (5%, 1%, ???). Any
input on this subject would be appreciated.

ciao,

Denis Allain
New-Brunswick, Canada
mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:59:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 traveler@nbnet.nb.ca wrote:

> My questions relates to which personal weapon
> would and would not work in a vacuum atmosphere.  I would think that
> most firearms would not work, such as pistols, rifles, etc. Would an
> ACR work? (BTW, can someone explain to me what DS amo is ?
> Discarding sabot...???...) I think probably not. What about an ARL? I believe a gauss
> weapon would work (battery in each clip...). Laser rifles, FGMP's and PGMP's would work quite nicely. Would grenades work? Help me out here, people.

Since gunpowder contains both oxidant and oxidizer, all firearms will work
quite well in a vaccuum, better, in fact, than they will _in_ an
atmosphere. You'll get higher muzzle velocities, since the bullet won't
have to push the air out of the barrel, a considerable increase in range,
since air resistance is gone.

DS does stand for discarding sabot.

Now, on _long_ exposure to vaccuum, you start running into problems like
grease on lubricated surfaces evaporating, vaccuum welding
between non-lubricated metal parts, but that's only after a considerable
amount of time, and are easily dealt with with the proper surface coatings
and lubricants.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:31:15 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Testing

Test, test

- --
Ethan Henry                        egh@klg.com
                            http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:39:03 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

>I'd like to take an informal poll.  How many of you are active
>in a Traveller campaign right now?

Oh, Memememe!

Location:        Boston, MA
Age:               1.3 years
Meeting Frequency: Once every week, usually
Group Size:        5 including ref.
Referees:         1
Health:            Stable, not stale yet.
Rules Mix:       House at this point, CT setting, T4 Character
Gen./noncombat task rules.
                      [note, rules are rarely used when role playing will
suffice]

>P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?
>What's an ideal critical mass?

There are no other GM candidates except one (despite my encouragements), We
will not be splitting or adding new players unless something really unusual
happens.

I think 4 players + 1 ref is ideal,  Each player typically has a primary
character and an "NPC" which the player controls (keeps me, the GM, from
having to run all those NPCs).  5 players inevitably resulted in one player
not getting enough "attention" from the GM or game.  6 or more were, for
me, unmanageable.  3 is fine.

Adventures eventually get "stale".  I usually counteract this by running a
3 week "hack and slash" D&D game to remind the guys how much better
Traveller is.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:16:10 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

> Robert Eaglestone wrote:
> >
> > Dear Travellers,
> >
> > I'd like to take an informal poll.  How many of you are active
> > in a Traveller campaign right now?

You bet. I've been running one for about five years or so.
> 
>  Are there some campaigns
> > that have multiple representation on TML?
> 
As far as I know, I'm the only one of the group who's on the TML.
But then, all but one of my players has Internet access, so who
knows.
>  How large is the average living
> > campaign today?
> 

I have seven players and me, the ref. Two of the players run
two characters each, although the second characters won't be 
introduced until the next session (or the one after).

> > And, just to make things complex, what is your rules system mix
> > for your campaign?
> 

We used to run CT. Two years ago (I know, I'm running behind) I
converted to MT. When T4.1 comes out, I'll have a look at it and
will probably convert. I run about 10% house rules too.

> > Location:          

Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

> 
> > Age:               1.7 years
> 

Of the campaign. About five years or so.

> > Meeting Frequency: 

Every third Saturday night, for about seven hours or so. However,
we don't get together as often during July/August and December, due
to vacations.

> 
> > Group Size:        5
> 

Eight, including me.

> > Referees:          1
> 

One.

> > Health:            

I think it's pretty good. I like to run the group in several 
adventures at once. Each adventure takes a long time to resolve
and has many sub-plots. It keeps things interesting.

> > What's an ideal critical mass?
> 

I think about four to five players is optimal. Right now I have a
couple of players that don't do much. The other five players are
really into it and tend to "hog" the action.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:44:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Patriot ABM?  NOT!

You wrote: 

>Marine HAWK battery says the Patriot is just a nice political 
pseudoweapon to
>ease fears...

The Scud was a political psuedoweapon to create fears.  So they 
cancelled eachother out!

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:43:41 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: RE: Live Campaigns?

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Douglas wrote:

 Location:	Oslo, Norway
 Age:		1 year
 Meeting Freq:	every 2 weeks
 Group Size:	4+
 Referees:	Just me
 Rules Mix:	TNE rules (20%), House (20%), Norules(60%)
 Campaign:	Selfdesigned Terran Confederation year 2100
 	
 
 

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:00:23 -0400
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Location:           Clearwater, FL
Age:                  9 months (
Meeting Frequency: via phone & e-mail (two to three times a week)
Group Size:       3 (one is in CA)
Referees:          1
Health:              Active
Rules Mix:         Mostly CT/MT, migrating to T4
Setting:             circa 1100

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:55:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: Books and Scuds and stuff

You wrote: 
>
>There's a rather good book by Trevor Dupuy called 'Future Wars', which
>takes history up to 1993 as is, then extrapolates events onwards. 

I'd argue the 'rather good' point.  I found it to be rather bad.  
Handwaving nuclear weapons out, then rigging things so that the Arabs 
can beat the Israelis?  Fat friggin' chance.  One of the things he 
doesn't factor in in that scenario is that the Egyptian Army _can't_ 
attack the Israelis.  We'd withdraw all out tech support and half their 
tanks would break down in the first week.  Dupuy has too much faith in 
his precious numbers, and that makes for bad simulations.  Besides, 
he's a bad writer too boot.  

John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:04:57 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Sensors

I'm doing some write-ups of different planets and hit upon a question.
What type of sensors would a high populated, fairly rich planet have.
Would they relay on passive sattelite sensors, or would they use active
sensors? What would military ships protecting this world, I'm here
thinking planetary defence boats, use?

Another question that is more ship combat related is in the same field.
Is it possible for a ship to hide in the active pulse of a sensor? Maybe I
should explain my question. A ship is running from another ship in a well
trafficated system. In trying to avoid the ships sensors while still using
HEPlaR engines, the running ship picks one of the military ships using
active sensors and positions themself right between this ship and the
follower. Would this blur out the running ship?

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:03:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: jatkins6@ix.netcom.com (John Atkinson)
Subject: Re: French hardware, etc.

You wrote: 

>>have the reputation as being the aircraft to buy if your politics 
>>aren't in line with the US sufficiently to be able to wrange F-16s.
>
>  Like the Israeli's, perchance?

Precisely.  Mirages are considered distinctly second-rate now that they 
can get F-16s and F-15s.

>  True. But they are therefore correct in designing hardware for that
>purpose. Mind you, I do a bunch of the work for our microarmour groups
>rules set, and I look at the stats our researcher converts, and I hate
>the stuff.

But if you play it against randomly selected West Africans, it would 
work.  :)

>  OC, they may have been re-equipping to fight their most recent (colonial)
>war again - a bad habit world-wide, and one which I think the U.S. has done
>very well in avoiding the last decade or so.

Well, they ran into that issue in DS, when it was discovered the French 
units were only fit to screen a flank due to their absolute inability 
to handle armored combat.

>  Also, one Challenge mag had a 1200 mt assault tank. Imagine the players
>trying to figure out how to drive it on to their freighter without it simply
>dropping through the cargo bays decking :)

Imagine the difficulty trying to find a planet with bridges capable of 
supporting the damn thing!


John M. Atkinson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:15:25 -0500
From: "William A. Barnett-Lewis" <wlewis@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: [none]

Unfortunately the Big E was scrapped in '59 or '60. The various vet
groups that wanted to set her up as a memorial couldn't come up with the
money. In addition, the USN wanted the Enterprise name for their (then)
newest and baddest toy - CV(N) 65 Enterprise.  It's always amazed me
that the Iowa class didn't get the scrappers torch at the same time. 

Of course that's likely to happen now... check out

http://www.endif.com/icpa for their current status.


> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 03:38:38 -0400
> From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
> Subject: Re: [none]
> 
> SD Mooney writes:
> 
> >>I don't
> >>think the French would be stupid enough, however, to challenge our
> >>ultimate weapon...
> >>
> >>   ...the U.S.S. Constitution.  Fully functional and operational once
> >>again.  How well would all that wood show up on French radar screens?
> >>:-)
> >
> >But if it's us against you... we'll have to help the French (!!!) by
> >sending HMS Victory and recommissioning the Mary Rose. <g>
> 
>    Nelson would rise up from his grave and sink the HMS Victory
> personally before seeing it used to support the French.
> 
>    Mary Rose?  Can't be any bigger than a frigate, and the Constitution
> will sink any frigate sent up against her.
> 
>    Anyone know where the USS Enterprise (WW II carrier) is these days?
> I hope someone had the good sense to preserve her too (had a reputation
> nearly as good as Constitution's--fought at Midway and many other
> battles without being sunk).  She may be needed again.
>  
(snip)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:16:21 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Cost of hiring mercs

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 traveler@nbnet.nb.ca wrote:

> 
> 
> I'm trying to figure out how much it would cost to hire a Mercenary unit. 
> Let us take an example: hiring a band of mercs with a mercenary cruiser
> star-ship (std 800 ton Imperial Encyclopedia, MT). I know how to
> calculate crew salary, so that isn't the problem.  I'm assuming that the
> bill would include fuel cost to and back from the designated work place.
> MT cost for fuel is Cr500 for refined, and Cr100 for unrefined (per kl).
> which would they charge? (Dinom, where they would be employed, has no
> refined fuel) I was thinking of charging crew salary for the duration (1
> month), plus fuel cost (debating whether to charge 500 or 100 per), plus
> soldier ordinances (which could be Cr10,000 per soldier???), plus a
> percentage of the value of the vessel (5%, 1%, ???). Any input on this
> subject would be appreciated.
> 
> ciao,
> Denis Allain

I would rule that any merc unit would want all their expences covered and
put a profit ontop of this. Crewsaleries, fuelcost (refined), ammocost
(projected on a case to case basis), and so on. All expences that the merc
unit has in pulling of the mission has to be covered, including their
downpayment on any equipment thay have. This is of course a
budget question, and there will be times when they don't have that much
expences, in other words their profit will be higher, and other times
there expences will run much higher possibly even pushing them into lossin
money on the mission. Any merc unit can then renegiotiate their price, but
that would be hard given the distance between the unit and their
contracter. The merc unit will decide on their profit on the basis of the
mission. Hard mission would call for high profits, to cover the risk and
the possibilty for higher costs, while simple missions would have a lower
profit overhead.


Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:42:14 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: The politics of money (was RE: The Imperial Credit: What's It Worth?)

>This ability to save for a rainy day is not something that many bodies
>politic have learned throughout human history.  Given how little we've
>changed politically-speaking since the stone age (methods only have
>changed, not means or motivations), I don't foresee too many "enlightened"
>cultures doing this.  A question also is how free the economy is with its
>social spending.  Never thought about it until now, but there seem to be a
>total lack of communist cultures, outside of the Zhos, in Traveller.
> Anyone remember any?

Why are the Zhos communists (except for their evilness, badness
un-americanness etc)?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:36:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: [none]

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Harold Hale wrote:

>    Anyone know where the USS Enterprise (WW II carrier) is these days? 
> I hope someone had the good sense to preserve her too (had a reputation
> nearly as good as Constitution's--fought at Midway and many other
> battles without being sunk).  She may be needed again.
> 

Unfortunately, you probably shaved with part of her this morning...

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:55:37 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Hackett

>>>Folks have already mentioned "The Third World War" by Gen. Hackket.
>>>There's also a sequel running around. I have it, but it's in storage.
>>
>>Third World War was basically Hackket's plee to change NATO, and the
>>nuclear exchange is basically a dias ex machina <sp> to end the book
>>(from what I remember only Minsk and Birmimham get nuked).
>
>It makes a bad point (conscription?  Any society which requires mass 
>peacetime involuntary conscription deserves to loose the war it's 
>preparing for.  And even wartime conscription annoys me--but it's 
>occasionally justified)  in a rather turgid way.  Half the plot is 
>unlikely, the rest is impossible.  And it's all pedantic.  Hell, I even 
>preferred the American Cheerleading [tm] style of TC's Red Storm 
>Rising.  Ain't objective, but Tom can write rings around Hackett any 
>day.

  Hackett wasn't writing as a novelist; there's some doubt as
to whether Clancy should write as anything but. I didn't really
realize that the thrust of the book was about conscription rather
than the state of readiness of NATO. However, it must be pointed
out that the Bundeswehr conscripted its' manpower in a rather similar
situation to that of the U.S. in the `50's and `60's (i.e., no real
alternative to achieve mandated force levels).

  Conscription can be necessary and perhaps even desirable either in
war or peace. Pre-WW-I armies couldn't function without large trained
reserves (the Russians tried, and failed, repeatedly), but mechanized
warfare largely obviates the need for hordes of cheaply equipped riflemen,
as they can't concentrate to defeat the mech forces that will roll up
and disrupt them in effectively any quantity. That last consideration
could go a long way towards explaining why no Third World countries
today have gone the route of late 19th C. Europe in providing mass
literacy and universal male suffrage as a means of supplying itself
with the greatest military capability; the force so raised would be
both horrendously expensive (fiscally and politically) and possibly
of very limited actual military strength.

        Yours truly,
                Steven Hudson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:17:57 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: From the Home Office: Focus Statement

Rob Miracle wrote:
[very much needed reminder snipped]
> 
> appropriate forum.  Instead, please debate the morality of the Zhodani
> attack on Jewell in 1110.

Hey! What's this about an attack on Jewell? I thought the 5FW was
over by 1109!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:39:24 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: GURPs Traveller

>While I agree to a large extent about Generic Systems, it doesn't always
>have to be true.  I've a large selection of the early Hero Games stuff,
>Champions is great, but any other setting they put in terms of Champions,
>that sucked.  Let's be serious in their version of a Cyberpunk setting the
>software for the cyberdecks was simply Champions Superpowers, I think this
>was the last product of theirs I bought.

What about Justice Inc (a Hero system gameworld)? In my book one of the
best rpg ever produced. All needed rules and good feel for the genre.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:48:48 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns Survey

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

>>I'd like to take an informal poll.

Location:          San Jose, CA
Campaign Age:      2.5 years, though the first slew of characters was just
                   wiped out. A new group of characters is being brought in
                   to continue the same storyline, however, so I consider
                   it the same campaign.

                   The last campaign I ran was a MegaTraveller one that
                   lasted two years.
My Age:            29 going on 15. <g>
Meeting Frequency: Once every 1-2 weeks
Group Size:        5
Referees:          2 (I run a Regency mercenary campaign and Ron, a player
                   in my group, runs a Regency RQS campaign)
Health:            Static, may add one new player in next month or two,
                   but we've been playing Traveller off and one with the
                   same group for 17 years, occasionally, but usually
                   temporarily adding new players.
Rules Mix:         95% TNE, 5% TNE variant

>>P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?

Hmm. Haven't done this, but if there is a major player conflict that
develops, that's one way. I wouldn't recommend allowing this, however,
since if one rift develops, what's to stop another from happening? And
another, and another...

Could be that one or two players from the group want to travel to another
region  while the main group wants to stay put. This allows you to enjoy
two different settings, say one in Imperial/Regency space and one in Aslan
or Vargr space or something like that.

>>What's an ideal critical mass?

IMHO, six. One referee and five players. I've found that five players is
the absolute most I can sustain at once. Any more and I would risk having
idle players for long periods of time during each session.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:52:56 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns

Harry wrote:

>As a side note, most of the players in the core group are 27 to 31 years of
>age. Most of us hope to teach our kids how to roleplay. Is there anyone who
>has done that already???? (can't wait... "dad... could you pass the d6" hee
>hee hee.

Well, my five-year-old daughter and three-year-old son are already curious
as to what the heck this Traveller pastime is all about. If I run a session
at my house, they insist on sitting on my lap to help roll dice.

My kids are avid roleplayers with their dolls and action figures and my son
loves to become Superman so he can beat the crap out "the badguy" (me), so
I don't think it's too much of a stretch that I might get them interested
in playing one day.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml



- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1842
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 17 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1843



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: American Jingoism
Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: dan lane
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Sensors
Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth
Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
[T97#1831] Supplements...
[T97#1834] Ship Missions
Re: The politics of money (was RE: The Imperial Credit: What's It      Worth?)
Hacking gunnery-1
re: Sensors
Re: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited
Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 18:07 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: American Jingoism

In-Reply-To: <19970910152724000.AAA198@[192.168.2.7]>

Glenn,

> Now back to Traveller: The (later) Imperium is similiar to the USA in terms
> of relative power to its contemporaries. It could defeat any combination of
> two of them, and probably three. But to actually conquer one would take too
> much of its resources  too administer.

Not true. The Rim War crippled both sides and the Zhos won every Frontier 
War. The Imperium *could* defeat any single enemy by throwing everything at 
them, but this would leave them wide open to attack by everyone else.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 18:07 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, other administrative trivia

In-Reply-To: <3416B104.5C63@GLJA.com>

Erwin,

> I'm now faced with a problem. I think I've made it too easy to get
> military stuff. If there is a Merc Guild, there must be annual dues
> and some sort of certification and registration process. Perhaps a
> representative of said Guild audits the group once per year to make
> sure they're performing merc work and are deserving of the membership.
>  
> How do you handle it? Have I totally botched it up? Will my universe
> be destined to fall into the hands of every joker who has a gun?

Well, the Imperial authorities will want to be informed about this new 
merc outfit, so the military will be paying special attention to them 
wherever they go in future.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:39:42 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

>And, just to make things complex, what is your rules system mix
>for your campaign?
>
Location:          Lake Forest, California
Age:               0.5 years.  (the previous one ended two years ago, and
ran for two years.  We typically run a campaign for 12-24 months.)
Meeting Frequency: Weekly
Group Size:        2
Referees:          1
Health:            Stable.  More players always appreciated
Rules Mix:         50% made up as I go along, 25% T4, 25% house, MT, CT.

Scott

>P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?
>What's an ideal critical mass?

I have run a lot of games, and I found a group of 8 unmanageable, while a
group of 4 is just about perfect.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:04:11 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: dan lane

James Lindsay writes:

>> Canadians?  Last time I checked, Canada's main contribution was to 
>> serve as the hidey hole of every leftwinger nutcase who stepped beyond 
>> even the loosely enforced laws. . . 
>
>What the hell is this CRAP !?!

   It was a **very** poorly worded attempt to point out that some
American men who dodged the draft during the Vietnam War era did so by
fleeing to Canada.  Canada's extradition treaty with the US at the time
did not cover the return of those individuals for prosecution.  By far
and away the most common forms of draft dodging in the US were: 

a)  College deferment: those attending college and had filed the proper
forms with the draft board couldn't be drafted.

b) Joining the Natonal Guard: While the logic of joining the military to
avoid military serve might seem a bit off, in fact very few National
Guard units ever went to Vietnam.  By signing up with some admin unit in
Chicago, Illinois, you guaranteed your next assignment wouldn't be
Saigon.

c) Marriage: Getting married and having children significantly decreased
your chances of having to serve.  An unknown number of men went this
route.

   President Bill Clinton avoided the draft by sending a letter
commiting to sign up for Army ROTC in college (this bought you four
years before having to serve).  Later, when he signed up for college, he
neglected to sign up for ROTC, and didn't report his change of status
until sometime later (naturally I assume he filed for his college
deferment).

   While his was one of the more "creative" methods of draft dodging,
many other men who went on to political careers as both Democrats and
Republicans also avoided potential service in Vietnam.  

>Can we *please* get back to discussing Traveller?

   I'm working my way slowly back to topic now...

   Does the draft exist in the Imperium (regardless of milieu)?  If so,
what exemptions are given from service?  What are the penalties for
draft dodging?  Are there worlds outside Imperial borders that offer
refuge to draft dodgers?

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:09:42 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

I should also mention that besides my regular group, I have a samll circle
of friends who help me playtest things like TACS.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:21:31 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

At 11:29 AM 9/16/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Dear Travellers,
>
>I'd like to take an informal poll.  How many of you are active
>in a Traveller campaign right now?  Are there some campaigns
>that have multiple representation on TML?  Has anyone tried to
>tally these numbers before?  How large is the average living
>campaign today?

>Location:          San Francisco, CA
>Age:               8 months
>Meeting Frequency: 2/month
>Group Size:        4
>Referees:          1
>Health:            On hiatus
>Rules Mix:         CORPS

Due to some writing work and my health, my campaign is currently on hold
for a few months.  It's set in the Lunion subsector in 1106.  Basic
merchant campaign, using the growing war scare as a push.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:11:00 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Sensors

This may be obvious, but everything I say to answer this is In My Humble
Opinion (IMHO);

>I'm doing some write-ups of different planets and hit upon a question.
>What type of sensors would a high populated, fairly rich planet have.
>Would they relay on passive sattelite sensors, or would they use active
>sensors?

Assuming a high tech level (8+), there will be extensive active traffic
control sensors deployed, probably mostly in orbit (on the ground in vacuum
planets).  These would be typical technology level for the system.  At
maybe a tech level higher, there will be military bases strategically
placed around the system, and sensor pickets (SDBs) on patrol throughout
the inhabited planets and occassionally patrolling outside the protected
sphere.  These will be a mix of active and passive sensors.  Any well known
base will always* use active, since there is no use trying to hide a known
installation.  Also, major warships are often effective by their very
presence, so unless there is a specific tactical reason, most warships will
run "on active" whenon a routine patrol.  Purpose built sensor pickets will
probably not use active sensors very often.

*There are certain specific tactical occassions for shutting off active
sensors temporarily.

 >Another question that is more ship combat related is in the same field.
>Is it possible for a ship to hide in the active pulse of a sensor? Maybe I
>should explain my question. A ship is running from another ship in a well
>trafficated system. In trying to avoid the ships sensors while still using
>HEPlaR engines, the running ship picks one of the military ships using
>active sensors and positions themself right between this ship and the
>follower. Would this blur out the running ship?

Not likely.  Perhaps if the military vessel were jamming the sensing ship,
but the "hard" radar return from the sensing ship is probably distinctive
enough to not be fooled by another radar pulse in the same space.  (note
that I use "radar" to cover all the AEMS possibilities.)  If the sensing
vessel had civilian sensors a TL or two lower than the military vessel, and
the military vessel specifically wished to help the fleeing vessel, and was
in relatively short range, they might be able to "burn out" the sensing
element of the civilian sensor package by overloading it.  This is probably
scientifically inaccurate, but makes good plot...and I was never one to
pass up a good plot thickener.  Remember that the fleeing vessel is even
*closer* to the military vessel when it does this, but could probably avoid
damage by shutting down its sensor array.

Pete

Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:12:07 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth

At 07:55 PM 9/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-16 03:36:06 EDT, you write:
>
><< > Actually, if the leagility part does not bother you making a pirate
>radio or<<
><snip>
>
>Who said anything about getting caught?

When one is consodering any illegal activity, the first question should be
"can I handle being caught and punished?"

If the answer is no, then there is no point in continuing.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:28:55 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

At 08:47 PM 9/16/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Presently, our party is situated on a vacuum world (Dinom, in the
>Lanth sub-sector). My questions relates to which personal weapon
>would and would not work in a vacuum atmosphere.  I would think that
>most firearms would not work, such as pistols, rifles, etc. Would an
>ACR work? (BTW, can someone explain to me what DS amo is ?

Conventional firearms will work perfectly well in a vacuum.

DS is indeed Discarding Sabot.. the US Army is currently evaluating a
possible replacement for the M-16A2 tha fires a 5.56/3mm DS round.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:37:22 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T97#1831] Supplements...

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:18:34 -0400, Douglas
<douglas@teleport.com> wrote:

>I'd also like to see some 'canon' addressing of background features.  =What
>can we expect to find at a starport, outside of the passenger terminal?
>What would the traders expect to find for facilities?  For instance, in =my
>last game, they landed at a Type 'E' starport on a TL-3 world and needed
>fuel. Amazingly, the facilities existed...the entreprenuer dropped one =end
>of the hose in the local water supply, attached an appropriate connector
>to the ship's supply valve and got the donkey harnessed to the pump...

....and charged an arm and a leg for what the ship's crew probably
could have done with equipment on hand for essentially nothing.
Well, nobody said that PCs were _always_ smart... :)

You might want to look at the article I wrote a year or so ago,
"Extending the UWP: Starports".  Essentially, I came up with a
"Universal Starport Profile" to describe the services available,
and also established minimums for a port to get the indicated
rating.  As I recall, there were discussions of ship construction
facilities, ship maintenance facilities, tourist and business
legal/consular/diplomatic services, amenities including but not
limited to transient residential facilities and communications
facilities, cargo handling capabilities including displacement
and live-status, fuel availability and method, and so on.
Basically, enough to flesh out a starport if you want to, or,
like the UWP itself, to use as a starting point for your
imagination.  Check it out on Freelance Traveller,
(http://www.dragonfire.net/~FreelanceTraveller/); I believe that
you'll find it in .../Features/RuleAnal/starports.htm or
..../starports.html

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:37:31 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T97#1834] Ship Missions

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 03:55:39 -0400,
CardSharks@aol.com[SMTP:CardSharks@aol.com] wrote:

>I am trying to fill out a table for ship design detailing various ship
>missions.

>Column 1 is the basic mission. Column 2 is a mission modifier.

>Does anyone care to make some suggestions?

>SHIP MISSIONS
>Code	Basic					Suffix
>	A	Auxiliary				Armored
>	B	Battle					-
>	C	Cruiser/Close/Carrier	Armed
>	D	Destroyer				-

SUFFIX D =3D Diplomatic?

>	E	Escort					Escort
>	F	Fighter					Fast
>	G	-						Gun (Energy Weapons)
>	H	Hospital				Heavy
>	I	Intelligence			-
>	J	-						-
>	K	Cargo 					Stores (dry goods)
>	L	Liner (Personnel)		Light
>	M	Monitor 				Meson
>	N	-						Missile (nuclear)
>	O	-						-
>	P	Patrol					-
>	Q	-						-

I don't know what the best word to describe this would be, but a
BASIC Q would be a ship designed to look like another type,
generally a weak type, but which would actually be much better
defended and armed.  This class of ship would be used for certain
kinds of covert operations (essentially the equivalent of "sting"
operations).

As an example, a Q might be designed to look like a Free Trader,
and, when "on mission" would run a Free Trader ID.  When it's
attacked by pirates, the pirates get a surprise; this Free Trader
is no pushover, and may (probably will) in fact get the best of
the pirate corsair ("PC" classification?).

Incidentally, this table means that the previously published
information on ship types/missions would appear to be
invalidated; a "type A2" free trader would actually appear to be
a Free Trader "UL" or "UUL" instead.

Also, how about some examples of how "traditional" ship types get
classified under this system and a one-line explanation of each
BASIC and SUFFIX?  For example, how is the yacht classified under
this scheme? UU? LU? What if it's carrying the ambassador from
one of the Tlakhu clans to the Imperium?  Does it then become UD?
LD? Something else entirely?  What about the X-Boat from a few
centuries down the line?  Surely, the Donosev survey vessel would
be a SS, but what about those wedge-shaped things that take a
crew of 1?

>	R	Repair					Rider
>	S	Scout					Sensor
>	T	Tender					Tanker (H2)
>	U	Multi-Use (Cargo/Liner)	Unarmed (Civilian)
>	V	-						-
>	W	-						Supply (Weapons)
>	X	Experimental			-

SUFFIX X=3D non-jump only?  (i.e., the SDB might generically be MX,
PX, or maybe even CX)

>	Y	-						-
>	Z	Scientific				Special Mission

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:57:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The politics of money (was RE: The Imperial Credit: What's It      Worth?)

>This ability to save for a rainy day is not something that many bodies
>politic have learned throughout human history.  Given how little we've
>changed politically-speaking since the stone age (methods only have
>changed, not means or motivations), I don't foresee too many 
>"enlightened" cultures doing this.  A question also is how free the
>economy is with its social spending.  Never thought about it until now,
>but there seem to be a total lack of communist cultures, outside of the
>Zhos, in Traveller. Anyone remember any?

I didn't think the Zho's are communist, there is no everyone is equal, but
some are more equal of others ... They might be a bit totalitarian, only
Psions being able to rule, but not communists. I also don't recall there
being any mention of a controlled economy anywhere, but then I could be
wrong.

For real totalitarian, you want the Solomani, this is probably the closest
you get to communists, "Everyone is equal in the eyes of the Party!!"
unless your a member of the party, high up anyway.

I don't think they go in for the Marxist view of economics, (can't
recall if the economic system is mentioned anywhere) but the
"Democraticaly elected Government" ? (ha ... ha ... ha ... bonk (man
laughing his head off)) but if they do this to the Govenment then they
probs contoll the economy in some way as well.

As for the average solomani valuing there freedom, well ... they don't
realy have any do they ...

	Ewan Quibell
	Data Communications Technician        The Game's afoot:
	Computer Centre                       Follow your spirit, and apon
	University of Brighton                  this charge
                                              Cry 'God for Harry, England,
	E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              and Saint George !'
	http://www.comp.it.bton.ac.uk/~edq/
                                                    Henry V 3:1
	#include<stddisclamer.h>                    W. Shakespeare

	My spelling is entierly due to dyslexia, typoes and poetic license

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:37:48 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Hacking gunnery-1

I'm a bit late here, but I was having posting problems...

Leroy mentioned his own brilliant ability to 
"get su" on boxes he doesn't have an account on 
(whatever that means, I "got su" when I bought a copy
of Linux, but anyways) but I think some people on this
list have the mistaken idea that the pc-like computer
is what the whole computer industry is all about.

There are many better modern day analogies to what
Traveller "computer software" will probably look like,
without having to resort to arbitrary, wierd, handwaving
architectures.

Some examples are:

 - a TV. Yep. Apparently in a TV manufactured today,
   there's about 500K of code. su that.
 - SAP R/3. 
 - The software in a phone switch.
 - Flight control software in a modern jet fighter.
 - The software sitting in every '98 Ford, GM, Chrystler, BMW, et al.

You don't "copy" any of these pieces of code. You steal
them. It's not "hacking" - it's industrial espionage and
if your players want to do it, it's a job and a half in
itself.

Besides, for most companies, software is either embedded
so deeply that it's invisible to the user (ie. a TV) or
it's sold as a loss leader. I'm not privvy to Sun's
accounting books, but I bet they don't make a cent on 
Solaris. The bulk of the software sold by Sun serves to
promote their hardware business. The same with IBM.

Chances are that Gunnery-1 will come embedded in the
whole turret control mechanism and that you'll be about
as interested in copying, craking, reverse-engineering
or changing it as you would be in doing the same thing 
to the software in your pacemaker.

Once upon a time, people changed the tubes in their
radio receivers as a hobby kinda thing. One day, software
will disappear the same way that tubes did.

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                        ehenry@magma.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:44:53 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Sensors

Tommy Grav writes
>What type of sensors would a high populated, fairly rich planet have.
>Would they relay on passive sattelite sensors, or would they use active
>sensors? What would military ships protecting this world, I'm here
>thinking planetary defence boats, use?

You should take a look at the Definitive Sensor Rules (tm) and the sensors
in FFS2 (which include really, really big sensor arrays for planetary 
installations.) 

Passive sensors are generally capable of longer range than active sensors - 
but you can hide from them by shutting down your power plant, etc. A 
planetary sensor network would rely on both. The passive sensors would be
orbital, and huge - several hundred meters in diameter or even a thousand m.
Some sensor arrays might also be deployed in free space in the outer solar
system (where Saturn is in our solar system) to get away from thermal 
background due to zodiacal dust. The active sensor arrays would be located
on the planet and generally shorter ranged.

>Another question that is more ship combat related is in the same field.
>Is it possible for a ship to hide in the active pulse of a sensor? Maybe I
>should explain my question. A ship is running from another ship in a well
>trafficated system. In trying to avoid the ships sensors while still using
>HEPlaR engines, the running ship picks one of the military ships using
>active sensors and positions themself right between this ship and the
>follower. Would this blur out the running ship?

Technically, this wouldn't work. HEPlaR light is UV/visible/near-IR;
active sensors emit far-IR/submillimeter/radio for the most part. Also,
active sensor pulses will be monochromatic (all one frequency) and probably
very short pulses. HEPlaR is very hard to hide...One possibility would be 
to maneuver into the exhaust of the military ship (it's not so dense as to
be a danger) so that the running ship's exhaust is mixed in and almost
undetectable...Another possibility is to use something less easily visible
(thruster plates, chemical rockets.) I might let people run their HEPlaR
"cold", with ten times normal fuel consumption and half the normal signature
penalty.

Bruce "Sensor Guru" Macintosh

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:03:53 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited

Anders Backman wrote:

> >And, obviously, GURPS mechanics are out.
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Chris Griffen
>
> Out of curiosity, just what is wrong with GURPS mechanics (besides
> squabbles over the char gen)?

I don't have any problems with GURPS play mechanics. Its just that character
gen takes so long with new players. My solution to that problem is to have
a folder of varied characters, kind of like the pregened characters in
CT adventures.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:50:51 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

traveler@nbnet.nb.ca wrote:

>  My questions relates to which personal weapon
> would and would not work in a vacuum atmosphere.  I would think that
> most firearms would not work, such as pistols, rifles, etc.

Nope all firearms work in a vacuum, Guncotton is self  oxidizing.

> Would an
> ACR work? (BTW, can someone explain to me what DS amo is ?
> Discarding sabot...???...)

Yep, it would work too. DS stands for Discarding Sabot, or a smallpenatrator with a collar that falls away when the bullet leaves the
barrel.

> I think probably not. What about an ARL?

Assualt rocket launcher--
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:20:36 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

Anders Backman wrote:

>
>
> Personally I think GURPS Traveller is the best thing that has happened
> since Striker I. Finally a combat system that is detailed and somewhat
> consistent with other rules. Most people seem to dislike GURPS for its char
> gen system but how that is handled is up to the ref. I like the combat
> system and the vehicle systems a lot.

To borrow a phrase, "Mega-Dittos".

The only true problem I have with Gurps as a system is converting from
"English" to metric. Hell orignal CT was in "English" measurments.

As for character gen, thats part of being a GM. I seem to rember a
player in my origenal CT campaign with JOT-1 and Handgun-7.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:31:23 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

> Dear Travellers,
>
> I'd like to take an informal poll.  How many of you are active
> in a Traveller campaign right now?

Am tooling up a Gurps:Traveller game right now. I have 3 playerstwo of
which are playing continuing characters from my 2 year old
Tne game set in RC.

> And, just to make things complex, what is your rules system mix
> for your campaign?

Gurps Combat and character gen, with FFS ships converted to usegurps
space combat. Plus various house rules.

> P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?
> What's an ideal critical mass?

 A second Gm and four or more players for twined adventures, or
my current arraignment for major subplots

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:53:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Don Stark <stark@glacier.nrlssc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:59:19 -0700 (MST)
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
> Subject: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
> 
> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 traveler@nbnet.nb.ca wrote:
> 
> > My questions relates to which personal weapon
> > would and would not work in a vacuum atmosphere.  I would think that
> > most firearms would not work, such as pistols, rifles, etc. Would an
> > ACR work? (BTW, can someone explain to me what DS amo is ?
> > Discarding sabot...???...) I think probably not. What about an ARL? I believe a gauss
> > weapon would work (battery in each clip...). Laser rifles, FGMP's and PGMP's would work quite nicely. Would grenades work? Help me out here, people.
> 
> Since gunpowder contains both oxidant and oxidizer, all firearms will work
> quite well in a vaccuum, better, in fact, than they will _in_ an
> atmosphere. You'll get higher muzzle velocities, since the bullet won't
> have to push the air out of the barrel, a considerable increase in range,
> since air resistance is gone.
> 
> DS does stand for discarding sabot.
> 
> Now, on _long_ exposure to vaccuum, you start running into problems like
> grease on lubricated surfaces evaporating, vaccuum welding
> between non-lubricated metal parts, but that's only after a considerable
> amount of time, and are easily dealt with with the proper surface coatings
> and lubricants.

I'd also think that the lack of an atmosphere would contribute to the weapon 
overheating when being used in auto mode. I seem to recall something in 
connection with the shuttle or Mir about how heat dissipation is a
significant problem in space since there is no medium to convect the
heat.
> 
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group


- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                                |                                   |
Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
                                |          /   _`,                  |
Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
Phone: (601) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
       (601) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1843
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 17 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1844



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Joe Commie
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: How to get things done!
Re: How to get things done!
Re: GURPs Traveller
Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture
Inspirational reading; Honor Harrington
Re: Trade or Sell
Live Campaigns?
Re: Sensors
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1840
Re: FF&S2 Drop tanks
[T97#1837] Sayat
Re: Marathon 2 Sub Merchant
Re: Marathon 2 Sub Merchant
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Inspirational reading; Honor Harrington
Re: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
Re: Ship Economics
Re: [T97#1834] Ship Missions
Re: Kenji Shwarz
re:FFS2 Drop tanks
re: Sensors

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:04:06 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Joe Commie

>This ability to save for a rainy day is not something that many bodies
>politic have learned throughout human history.  Given how little we've
>changed politically-speaking since the stone age (methods only have
>changed, not means or motivations), I don't foresee too many "enlightened"
>cultures doing this.  A question also is how free the economy is with its
>social spending.  Never thought about it until now, but there seem to be a
>total lack of communist cultures, outside of the Zhos, in Traveller.
> Anyone remember any?

Why are Zho's communist in your eyes? They are about as far away as you can
get. They are an oligarchy that makes no pretense as to who rules. They are
not egalitarian. They don't pretend to be.
Communism has, at its heart (not in reality, but that is a different post on
different list) absolute equality and, in the end , the withering away of
the state. That would be absolute anathema to the average Zho, never mind a
Noble. 

If you want "true" communist (as in Marx's fantasy), try the dolphins.
(Traveller's Digest #13)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Ayers <mark@bbic.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Location:          Seattle, WA
Age:               3 years
Meeting Frequency: Weekly
Group Size:        5+
Referees:          1+
Health:            Recovering from summer
Rules Mix:         T4/MT/House

#include<iostream> // SPAM is illegal
int main(void) {	
    cout << "Net Admin for the Book and Bean Internet Cafe\tadmin@bbic.com\n";
    cout << "Traveller referee for Metro Seattle Gamers\tmark@bbic.com\n";
    return (8);
}

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:27:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: How to get things done!

In a message dated 97-09-17 04:49:06 EDT, you write:

<< > What about using ground-based lasers to lift small cargo ship into low
earth
 > orbit?
 
 >>It's been discussed. But you need a gigawatt beam for about 5 tons of
ship.
 
 I rather like laser launch systems as they can provide a nasty surprise
 to anybody attacking the port (a gigawatt laser with a ROF of 60 to 100
 times *per second* is gonna ruin your day :-) >>

This is the mythical HELL system (High Energy Laser Lift).  It's really a
quite simple system.  Can use normal water for reaction mass if you are
desperate enough...
As for base defense with the laser I doubt it.  Unless the poor dope flew
right over the site and got vaporized....

This reminds me....has traveller ever discussed anything like the old THOR
system??  I'd like to see some game effects on that thing (other than those
presented in FASA's Renegade Legion books).
Thanx
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:26:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: How to get things done!

In a message dated 97-09-17 04:49:06 EDT, you write:

<< > What about using ground-based lasers to lift small cargo ship into low
earth
 > orbit?
 
 >>It's been discussed. But you need a gigawatt beam for about 5 tons of
ship.
 
 I rather like laser launch systems as they can provide a nasty surprise
 to anybody attacking the port (a gigawatt laser with a ROF of 60 to 100
 times *per second* is gonna ruin your day :-) >>

This is the mythical HELL system (High Energy Laser Lift).  It's really a
quite simple system.  Can use normal water for reaction mass if you are
desperate enough...
As for base defense with the laser I doubt it.  Unless the poor dope flew
right over the site and got vaporized....

This reminds me....has traveller ever discussed anything like the old THOR
system??  I'd like to see some game effects on that thing (other than those
presented in FASA's Renegade Legion books).
Thanx
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:45:15 +0000
From: Tim Connors <tconnor@pop3.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPs Traveller

At 06:39 PM 9/17/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>While I agree to a large extent about Generic Systems, it doesn't always
>>have to be true.  I've a large selection of the early Hero Games stuff,
>>Champions is great, but any other setting they put in terms of Champions,
>>that sucked.  Let's be serious in their version of a Cyberpunk setting the
>>software for the cyberdecks was simply Champions Superpowers, I think this
>>was the last product of theirs I bought.
>
>What about Justice Inc (a Hero system gameworld)? In my book one of the
>best rpg ever produced. All needed rules and good feel for the genre.
>
>
>/Anders Backman
>Aniware AB
>anders.backman@aniware.se
>
	Amen, the best game for the period, period!


Tim Connors

You can't fall off of the floor -- most human beings require two years to
learn this.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:51:37 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture

Jory M. Earl wrote:
> 
> What is "3I"?

Short hand for the Third Imperium.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:50:56 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Inspirational reading; Honor Harrington

Just finished the latest Honor Harrington book "Honor Among Enemies".

David Weber is pumping this creative well for all its worth and coming
up...pretty good.  At least for light "Horatio Hornblower" style sci-fi
that is.  [just noticed that Honor Harrington and Horatio Hornblower have
the same initials].  If you haven't read any of the other Harrington novels
I recommend the earlier ones more highly, but I found the early ones
whetted my appetite for later books.

It's pretty much worth the $6 cover price (never pay cover) for a quick
read.  The focus of the book is a squadron of Q-ships.  The feel is vaguely
traveller with a few exceptions.  The even use det-laser missiles for those
TNE (and T4) fanatics out there!

The plot is predictable, the characters heroic, but somewhat flat, the
action is intense, and the resolution happy.  Not to be taken seriously,
but a good time will be had nonetheless.

Pete

Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:50:57 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Jory M. Earl wrote:

>  How much?  And BTW, is it better to write BELOW the quote, or post my reply
> ABOVE the quote?  What does everyone think?

Trim your quote to just enough to let everybody know to what you are
replying to, as I have done here, then post below the quote.

I know it is not regular e-mail etiquette, but it is the way things are
done properly on the TML.

I should know, I learned the hard way, and I've got the private e-mails
to prove it!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:55:35 +0200
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Live Campaigns?

16 Sep 1997 11:29 EDT Robert Eaglestone wrote:

Location:          Copenhagen, Denmark
Age:               2 years
Meeting Frequency: Once every 1.5 months
Group Size:        3
Referees:          1
Health:            Varying
Rules Mix:         MT

Location:          Copenhagen, Denmark
Age:               2 years
Meeting Frequency: Infrequently
Group Size:        3
Referees:          1
Health:            Poor
Rules Mix:         MT

> P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?

Basically when there are 4 players they could split to 2x2 comfortably.

> What's an ideal critical mass?

4 players max

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:34:46 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Sensors

Tommy Grav wrote:
> 
> I'm doing some write-ups of different planets and hit upon a question.
> What type of sensors would a high populated, fairly rich planet have.
> Would they relay on passive sattelite sensors, or would they use active
> sensors? What would military ships protecting this world, I'm here
> thinking planetary defence boats, use?
> 

The point to avoiding the use of active sensors is to remain
hidden. The minute you use an active sensor, you've revealed your
location and, depending upon the sensor, other information about
yourself.

Since it's pretty much impossible to hide an entire planet, I'd
say that worlds would use both passive and active sensors quite
freely. As for what the protecting military ships would use, that
would depend upon how far away from the world itself they are.

System defense boats hiding in gas giants wouldn't use active sensors,
obviously. However, those same boats in orbit around the world
in question could use them, since they have little to gain by
hiding.

> Another question that is more ship combat related is in the same field.
> Is it possible for a ship to hide in the active pulse of a sensor? Maybe I
> should explain my question. A ship is running from another ship in a well
> trafficated system. In trying to avoid the ships sensors while still using
> HEPlaR engines, the running ship picks one of the military ships using
> active sensors and positions themself right between this ship and the
> follower. Would this blur out the running ship?

Let me see if I get this right. Ship A wants to hide behind ship X
while evading ship Y. Given that situation, you have two answers:

If ships X and Y are on the same side, then this won't work. Ship A
would have to be so close to X that X would surely notice. In MT
combat this would be visual range.

If X and Y aren't on the same side, then it depends greatly on X's
reaction.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:38:59 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1840

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:17:14 -0400, "Jory M. Earl"
<j-man@iname.com> wrote:

> How much?  And BTW, is it better to write BELOW the quote, or post my =
reply
>ABOVE the quote?  What does everyone think?

In general, my technique is to quote the section of message that
I am responding to, and then insert my response.  If I am
responding to several items in a message, I take them in order,
so that my text is interspersed with quoted text:

for example:

	:message text

	response

	:more message

	response

....et cetera.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 16:29:37 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Drop tanks

Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> wrote:
> [097-1105 TAS Article]

Thanks, Douglas; I stand corrected (serves me right for relying on my
memory).  The TAS article definitely states that drop tanks are made
possible by "recent" advances in capacitor technology.  It further states
that "local" yards (TL-D) are not capable of constructing the new
capacitors, but are capable of building drop tanks.

Thus, for the canonical Imperium campaign, jump drives that can take
advantage of drop tanks should be available only at TL-F and/or the
post-1090 Imperial era.  This should probably be added to the FF&S2
errata, to prevent unfortunate accidents with the canon.


Guy "wildstar" Garnett
wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:38:03 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T97#1837] Sayat

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:39:35 -0400, kenji@accessone.com (Kenji
Schwarz) wrote:

>I don't see the Sayat as becoming part of the 3I. More like a client =
state
>of the Hiver Federation, I think.  If that.

Which is, ISTR, how you positioned them in the original musings.

>I've got something like 120K of .TXT of almost-finalized crap about =
these
>critters now -- too much to post to the list, anyway.  Maybe time to see
>about getting a webpage and put 'em up there, along with our working
>materials on Vilani linguistics... talk about cultural diversity <G>

Kenji, the Sayat have a home on Freelance Traveller anytime you
send them to me.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:34:02 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Marathon 2 Sub Merchant

Paul D. Owensby wrote:
> 
> Found Marathon2 for the PC in the ol' bargain bin at my FLPCS today,
> and remember someone mentioning that one of the levels takes place in
> a Subsidized Merchant ship. Is that in this game, or Marathon 1? and
> which level is it I should look out for?

It's not in the game, it's a separate Map file I created. 

I made it for Marathon Infinity for the Macintosh. (Bungie didn't want
to do any more Marathon versions, so to emphasize the fact that it was
the final version, and that all the map and physics model creation tools
were included allowing infinitely more scenarios to be made, they called
it "Marathon Infinity" instead of "Marathon 3"... I digress...)

It should be possible to create a PC M2 version. I won't have time
tonight, but if you're interested, drop me a line at
jumpspace@geocities.com and I'll see if I can do it for the weekend.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:33:44 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Marathon 2 Sub Merchant

Anders Backman wrote:
> 
> >Found Marathon2 for the PC in the ol' bargain bin at my FLPCS today,
> >and remember someone mentioning that one of the levels takes place in
> >a Subsidized Merchant ship. Is that in this game, or Marathon 1? and
> >which level is it I should look out for?
> >
> 
> No it is not in the game (of course ;) but someone (no name on website?)
> made a very nice map to use with Marathon. It is at:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275/marathon.html

I'll 'fess up. I made it. And it's my site. :-)

I should emphasize that this map is for Macintosh Marathon Infinity
only, at this time. Stay tuned to that page for an update...

> It should also be noted that the website in question was built using Frontier.
> Traveller, Frontier, Mac and Marathon - good choices all of them.

Thanks! I try to make good choices. <reminiscing> hmmmmm.... maybe not
all the time... Well, when it comes to computers, I make good choices.
At least I think I do.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:46:20 -0400
From: Bob Sanders <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Location:          Pittsburgh, PA
Age (Duration):    Old games: 6 years & 7 years; current: New!
Meeting Frequency: Once every 2-3 weeks
Group Size:        3-5
Referees:          1
Health:            Starting
Rules Mix:         50% MT, 20% CT, 30% House
Era:		   Deciding between M0/core, and M0/Earth. Suggestions?

(may give up and return to the SM & Beyond)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Inspirational reading; Honor Harrington

Has anyone read 'In Enemy Hands' yet?  I've only seen it in hardback, and
at $22.00 it's a tough sell...

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:45:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

> 
> I'd also think that the lack of an atmosphere would contribute to the weapon 
> overheating when being used in auto mode. I seem to recall something in 
> connection with the shuttle or Mir about how heat dissipation is a
> significant problem in space since there is no medium to convect the
> heat.

Isn't the heat primarily generated from the friction of the round against
the lands (rifling) and the heat of the propellent?

> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>                                 |                                   |
> Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
>                                 |          /   _`,                  |
> Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
> Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
> --------------------------------|                                   |
> e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
> --------------------------------|                                   |
> Phone: (601) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
>        (601) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

Cool signature!

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:49:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Ship Economics

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:
> John Macpherson said:
> >	Since the ship owner and the bank are investing in the same ship, 
> >all of the same risk factors etc. apply, so their return should be 
> >approximately the same.  
> 
> You'll have to try to explain that again, because I totally fail to
> understand how this can be true. The bank invests a sum of money and 
> gets 6.25% per year for 40 years, at the end of which they own nothing
> more than the money they have gotten back. In short, after 40 years they 
> have recieved 2.5 times their original investment.
> 
> The owner, OTOH, invests a sum of money and gets, according to you,
> 6.25% per year for 40 years, at the end of which he is the sole owner
> of something that is worth about 100-125% of his original investment.
> In short, after 40 years he has recieved about 3.5-3.75 times his original
> investment. How can the two rates of return possibly be equivalent?

	Well, they're not exactly equivalent.  I said that we should give 
the ship owner the same "fair profit" on his investment as the bank 
because the numbers would work out that he would get close to that, and 
making it the same was convenient.
	The ship owner would have a higher return, but not really that 
much higher.  The simple fact is that he doesn't get the ship for 40 
years, and the discounted present value of that ship is pretty small.  
You quoted a canonical source that ships were worth 25% of the purchase 
price at the end of 40 years.  For a 100MCr ship, that's 25MCr.  Using 
the same interest rate the bank gets, the discounted present value of 
25MCr 40 years from now is less than 3MCr.  This means that instead of 
the 5.52% that the bank gets the ship owner gets something like 6.2% (I 
don't have my spreadsheet with me).  That's really not an earth shaking 
difference.  Considering the larger risk the ship owner is taking, its 
not an unjustified rate of return, and using the same payment schedule 
for both the bank and ship owner is convenient.
 
- -JM

P.S. Note that I have revised my figure for the banks rate of return.  I 
discovered that I had the function set to count their loan payments as 
coming at the beginning of the year instead of the end, so they 
effectively got a discount on the ship's purchase price.  The new 5.52% 
figure I'm sticking to. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:51:37 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [T97#1834] Ship Missions

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 03:55:39 -0400,
> CardSharks@aol.com[SMTP:CardSharks@aol.com] wrote:
> 
> >I am trying to fill out a table for ship design detailing various ship
> >missions.
> 
> >Column 1 is the basic mission. Column 2 is a mission modifier.
> 
> >Does anyone care to make some suggestions?
> 
> >SHIP MISSIONS
> >Code   Basic                                   Suffix
> >       A       Auxiliary                               Armored
> >       B       Battle                                  -

Suffix B=Boat (Non-Jump capable)

> >       C       Cruiser/Close/Carrier   Armed
> >       D       Destroyer                               -
> 
> SUFFIX D = Diplomatic?

Sure.

> 
> >       E       Escort                                  Escort
> >       F       Fighter                                 Fast
> >       G       -                                               Gun (Energy Weapons)

G = Courier (Information)

> >       H       Hospital                                Heavy
> >       I       Intelligence                    -
> >       J       -                                               -
> >       K       Cargo                                   Stores (dry goods)
> >       L       Liner (Personnel)               Light
> >       M       Monitor                                 Meson
> >       N       -                                               Missile (nuclear)
> >       O       -                                               -
> >       P       Patrol                                  -

suffix P = Planetoid  

> >       Q       -                                               -
> 
> I don't know what the best word to describe this would be, but a
> BASIC Q would be a ship designed to look like another type,
> generally a weak type, but which would actually be much better
> defended and armed.  This class of ship would be used for certain
> kinds of covert operations (essentially the equivalent of "sting"
> operations).

Is the word you're looking for "Decoy"?

<snip>
 
> Also, how about some examples of how "traditional" ship types get
> classified under this system and a one-line explanation of each
> BASIC and SUFFIX?  For example, how is the yacht classified under
> this scheme? UU? LU? What if it's carrying the ambassador from
> one of the Tlakhu clans to the Imperium?  Does it then become UD?
> LD? Something else entirely?  What about the X-Boat from a few
> centuries down the line?  Surely, the Donosev survey vessel would
> be a SS, but what about those wedge-shaped things that take a
> crew of 1?

Yacht (a pleasure craft) should have a letter to itself (imho) Y is
open. Seems obvious ;P

> >       R       Repair                                  Rider
> >       S       Scout                                   Sensor
> >       T       Tender                                  Tanker (H2)
> >       U       Multi-Use (Cargo/Liner) Unarmed (Civilian)
> >       V       -                                               -
> >       W       -                                               Supply (Weapons)
> >       X       Experimental                    -
> 
> SUFFIX X= non-jump only?  (i.e., the SDB might generically be MX,
> PX, or maybe even CX)

Why not use B for Boat? Boat is already defined as a non-jump capable
craft. Hence System Defense Boat, which would be MB, imho.


> >       Y       -                                               -

Y = Yacht (pleasure craft)

> >       Z       Scientific                              Special Mission

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:15:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Kenji Shwarz

Quoth lugh1@juno.com:
> sir I don't know who your post was directed at but I hope it was not me .
> if you read the post you will see that all but the last two lines were
> written by Mr. Locket [sic]...

....and were sent by me to "jim mckee" via private email so as not to
clutter the list with private concerns.  I apologize that he doesn't read
his headers and thus spammed the list, and I'm sorry I let a bad teaching
day get the better of me so that I unloaded some bile (even privately) and
started this snafu.  Jim, I must say you're getting better: I haven't seen
as many jingoistic comments or gratuitous slams of whole rules-sets out of
you, so I say we call it quits and make peace.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:42:25 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:FFS2 Drop tanks

Hans wrote:

>Sigh! Well, I guess it is just a matter of time then. Drop tanks are just
>too useful. All it takes is one game author who dosen't know about them
>and another good way to make Milieu 0 different from Milieu 1100 goes out
>the window...

Hans,

Wildstar posted me an interesting response to this - I believe that FFS2
isn't breaking canon - however it may need the clarification that
commercial use of drop tanks was not until the 1100s. IIRC High Guard
doesn't limit them by TL.

Dom


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:13:44 +0100
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: re: Sensors

At 11:44 17/09/97 -0700, Bruce Alan Macintosh wrote:
>Passive sensors are generally capable of longer range than active sensors - 
>but you can hide from them by shutting down your power plant, etc. A 

	This sounds right, naturally.

	If you need to shut a power plant down quickly to hide from another ship's
sensors, would one need to make any kind of roll to do this quickly and
succesfully?

	Also, how long would it take to restart a power plant again from idle?
What if it needs to be done quickly? Cheers.

	See ya...




Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1844
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 18 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1845



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Some stray thoughts
re: Live Campaigns?
Re: FFS2 Drop tanks and other stuff
Re: Live Campaigns?
Fighter Quality
Re: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited
Heavy Bomber (TL5)
Sneaky radiation effects
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1842
Cost of hiring mercs: quick-fix
Mercenary economics I
Re: Some stray thoughts (Longer than I intended)
Re: Traveller campaign
Re: Trade or Sell
Fighter (TL5)
Re: French hardware, etc.
Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships
Re: Chemical engines
RE: Live Campaigns?
Re: Inspirational reading; Honor Harrington
More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:17:45 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Some stray thoughts

Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com> wrote:

can you send me or post details on that IIRC thing?

>IIRC it is an Ancients Artifact, somewhere between Pocket Universes and
>J-Drive. It may put a twist in canon, but that could just be a better
>understanding of Jump theory and an earlier reaching of J4 technology...


Assuming that is the IIRC (if I recall correctly) you are refering to ....
The operation of the jump tunnels is described in the CORE publication '
The Long Way Home'. I assume that the IG version of this supplement (Long
Way Home and Gateway) has the same information in it.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:55:47 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Live Campaigns?

Robert Eaglestone wrote:

>I'd like to take an informal poll.  How many of you are active
>in a Traveller campaign right now?

Me! Presently running an 1100s campaign.

> Are there some campaigns
>that have multiple representation on TML?

Not mine.

>Has anyone tried to
>tally these numbers before?  How large is the average living
>campaign today?

Presently, I have 6 players and myself.

>And, just to make things complex, what is your rules system mix
>for your campaign?

T4, blended with T4.1 drafts, MT and CT. I use High Guard for ships, T4.1
tasks, and MT background.


>Location:          Chester, UK
>Age:               1 year
>Meeting Frequency: Weekly, Weds
>Group Size:        6+
>Referees:          1
>Health:            Growing
>Rules Mix:         70% T4, 30% CT & MT



Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:08:35 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: FFS2 Drop tanks and other stuff

SD Mooney wrote:

> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 21:58:00 +0100
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: FFS2 Drop tanks was Re: Jump torpedoes
>
> Hans, you wrote:
>
> >Not so much late any TL, but late historically. Which would be completely in
> >accord with canon (So far. I'm waiting for the day some M:0 author or ship
> >designer decides to use a drop tank. That _will_ be a canon breaker (Did
> >FF&S2 say anything about drop tanks, btw?)).
>
> Only skimmed FFS2 at the moment, but the drop tanks are in, and there is no
> mention of their late deployment in the Imperium. So it is potentially a
> canon breaker.
>
> Dom
>
> - ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
> "Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
> "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost"

Another question in the same line of thought...
When I first started playing there were no laser or gauss PISTOLs, and the laser rifles
used BACK PACK power sources. The first pistol versions were brought out in the JTAS,
and were, I've always assumed, recent developments in that time period. Now EA has the
weapons using smaller belt power packs, with laser pistols at TL 11 and gauss pistols
at TL 12. Which is the correct time period for their introduction? How about the size
of the power pack? Is this an example of rewritten history?

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: 17 Sep 1997 23:27:26 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Location:           Ottawa, Ontario
Age:                  11 years
Meeting Frequency: biweekly
Group Size:       8
Referees:          1
Health:              inactive
Rules Mix:        MT
Setting:             CT Spinward Marches, pre FFW


Location:           Toronto, Ontario
Age:                  6 years
Meeting Frequency: whenever
Group Size:       5
Referees:          1
Health:              currently playing The Babylon Project
Rules Mix:        MT/TNE
Setting:             Reformation Coalition

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:50:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: Fighter Quality

> From: XatoKuom@aol.com
> << 
>     Not quite true - the Mig-29 and the Su-27 (the Mig-31 doesn't even
>  qualify) are _almost_ as good as the F-15.  >>
> 
> The Su-27 and the F-15 are quite close, however, in performance
> characteristics.  In particular, thrust-to-weight ratio actually favors the
> Su-27 Flanker.

  I'd call the _phenomenal_ missile payload of the Su27 a more telling
factor.

> The Su-35, the new and improved digital FBW Flanker, also has additional
> canards mounted below the canopy which give unparalleled manuverability.  So,
> in summation, we have a fighter with a smaller radar cross section, more
> power and manuverability and a modern FBW system.

  Not to mention a real nasty SR AAM mode, that allows off axis tracking
during a furball...

> The only reason the new Flanker-B/D(?) can't compare in a one on one battle
> is due to the vastly superior training of the average Western fighter jock.
>  For crying out loud, the Russian government can't even pay their troops, but
> once or twice a year.  By the way, what happened to our good friend, Gen.
> Alexandr Lebed?

  Crew training is _the_ factor, but they still don't have significant
_advanced_ (ie, the Su35) assets to meet the West (or anybody else) with
and it's now doubtful they ever will.

   The newest Soviet fighters, and the Archer missile, were certainly a
shock to the US intelligence services though...

- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:51:04 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: CT, MT, TNE, T4 vs GURPS, revisited

Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:03:53 -0700,  Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
>I don't have any problems with GURPS play mechanics. Its just that character
>gen takes so long with new players. My solution to that problem is to have
>a folder of varied characters, kind of like the pregened characters in CT adventures.

The best way is just to restrict the time players have.  Character
gereration doesn't _have_ to take more than a 1/2 hour.  It just
that players see all the choices they get and want to explore them
all.   Mot being given time to consider every possibility is certainly
no worse than not being given them at all.

_______________________________________________________________
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: 17 Sep 1997 23:55:55 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Heavy Bomber (TL5)

Heavy Bomber (TL5)
Designed by Robert Prior

Summary:
     2.00 displacement ton open-topped cylinder airframe;  11.3 tonnes;  MCr 1.36
Chassis:
     28.0 kL open-topped cylinder airframe (7.5 m long x 2.2 m wide x 2.2 m
high, wingspan 13 m);  Structure: 654 kg of hard steel, rated for 1.0Gs, body
0.010 cm thick, 1 armour rating
     
Performance:
     2x 505 kW TL5 Imp. Internal Combustion power plants;  Fuel: 505 L of
high-grade hcarb (505 kg), 4 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 1.00 MW aircraft;  Maximum Speed: 192 km/h, Take-Off
Speed: 184 km/h;  Range: 765 km;  Agility: +3DM
Crew:
     Crew roster: pilot, 5 gunners;  6 crew stations (4.0 cm of Hard Steel
armour, rating 9)
Armament:
     Weapon                          Damage    Range          Shots   
Reloads   Notes
     Bomb, Heavy-5                   72 exp    Contact        1       1      
  1 gunner
     Machinegun, Heavy-5             6         Long           200     9      
  turret1 gunner
     Machinegun, Heavy-5             6         Long           200     9      
  turret1 gunner
     Machinegun, Heavy-5             6         Long           200     9      
  turret1 gunner
     Machinegun, Heavy-5             6         Long           200     9      
  turret1 gunner
Communications:
     Subcontinental Radio (10.00 kW, TL5, SmVcl, MilSpec)
Sensors:
     Passive Subregional Optical (1 W, MilSpec)  Resolution: 2.0 m per km of
range


Designed with CSC (software (c) Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:09:47 +0100
From: Rob <Rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Sneaky radiation effects

Hi there.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that radars on aircraft can be
dangerous if someone was to walk in front of them while they were turned
on (microwaves, possibly?). Is this true? If it is, then what effect
would the hugely more powerful radar/Active EMS that are mounted on
starships have? Would the radiation be dangerous at a range that would
be useful in space combat (though probably severely lessened by armour),
or would it just be a handy way of getting rid of the unfriendly natives
without obviously shooting them? Possibly with a focussed/beam of
radiation then you could get rid of a particular individual or group
without killing all those present.

How would a person react to getting such a high dose of microwaves etc.?
Would they just fall down dead with no obvious cause at the time, or
would they take seconds/minutes/hours/etc to keel over?

Regards,
- -- 
Rob

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:40:04 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1842

 
> Since gunpowder contains both oxidant and oxidizer, all firearms will
> work quite well in a vaccuum, better, in fact, than they will _in_ an
> atmosphere. You'll get higher muzzle velocities, since the bullet won't
> have to push the air out of the barrel, a considerable increase in
> range, since air resistance is gone.
 
In game terms, The penetration never goes down in a vaccumm.

David Moodie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:22:04 +1000 (EST)
From: "Barry / Michael James (COM)" <m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Cost of hiring mercs: quick-fix

I recall that in a previous campaign my players 'subcontracted' for a 
mercenary mission. We had to work out the 'rental cost' on various 
military equipment. 
Since I was an economist at the time, I decided that we'd use the same 
monthly 'rental' as if they were repaying a ship loan to the same value 
as the equipment, but DOUBLED - basically because of the risk involved in 
taking the gear into combat, and wear & tear!  
It worked nicely, and came up with some realistically large numbers - and 
put the pressure on the players to come up with a profit! 
It also encouraged them to make maximum use of captured enemy equipment, 
so as to avoid the costs involved in rental...
Maintenance costs we set at 1% per month noncombat, and 5% if the gear 
has been in the field. This encouraged them to deploy only the equipment 
necessary to get the job done, and to maintain a mix of infantry, 
armour and air forces...if they decided to use grav tanks and 
interceptors for every mission, they very quickly ran out of cash. 
It also forced them to work much more closely with indigenous friendly 
forces...
Everything is economics! 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:29:58 +1000 (EST)
From: "Barry / Michael James (COM)" <m.barry@student.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Mercenary economics I

After you have calculated all salaries, costs, repatriation bonds etc., 
don't forget that you need to place a risk premium on top. This risk 
premium is basically what you pay for a mercenary corporation risking 
their lives, equipment, etc. in the battlefield. 

I suggest that the profit (ie markup after costs) should be equal to 100% 
of costs. This is for a standard, 'trained but green' mercenary unit of 
equal TL to the enemy, and should be 
the *minimum* - it means that they are just covering their costs, and have 
a 50% chance of winning. 

After that, as you become higher tech, more experienced and so on, the 
minimum fee should increase by roughly 25% - 50% per factor, cumulative. 
Therefore each tech level above the enemy would give you eg 50% extra, 
special skills (eg underwater, vacuum, hi-G etc) another 50%, tight time 
limit on completion another 50-100% and so on. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:27:58 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Some stray thoughts (Longer than I intended)

In reply Dom wrote:

> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:01:56 +0100
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
> Subject: re:Some stray thoughts
>
> IIRC it is an Ancients Artifact, somewhere between Pocket Universes and
> J-Drive. It may put a twist in canon, but that could just be a better
> understanding of Jump theory and an earlier reaching of J4 technology...
>
> Or it is an artifact *beyond* the comprehension of the Imperials
> investigating it (see Iain Banks' Excession for more ideas on this)? It
> doesn't have to have a major impact....
>
> Dom
> Dom
>
> - ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
> "Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
> "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost"

Dom,I'm more than willing to concede the point that this particular item could
be lost in the shuffle. I was trying to make the point, in general, that
as more material is generated in the Prequel of the M:0 era that it is
inevitable that something WILL be introduced that wasn't already covered by
existing Canon, and that WILL have some impact on canon. This is especially
true without a comprehensive guide for writers. It also won't matter one
whit to players just entering the game with T4, since they will, most likely,
not have access to the multitude of out-of-print material that, IMHO, most
of the participants on this list appear to have.

I have limited resources from the CT era, some remaining books in house, and
friends that have others. I have NOTHING from the MT era, having been in
the middle of raising a family, which made money for gaming all but nonexistent.
I picked up again with TNE, which I liked by-the-way, but couldn't get
players interested in, they were reluctant to by the rules and the were a bit
to complicated for the VERY irregular gaming sessions we have been playing
at.

Of  T4, I have now purchased everything currently published, I have been
converting to it's rules, with house revisions. But, not having the MT material
I am sure that I will someday write a game that infringes on something. I've
been trying not to cross up any of the CT material, but...? Now if I were
ever lucky, or brave enough to submit anything for publication, how would I
know what went over the line. (well, in my case I think I'd run it past the
canon police of this list but what about little Joey with only the T4 material,
and nothing else, who doesn't even know about the TML?)

At any rate this wasn't meant to be an argumentative post about what was good,
bad or indifferent in LWH or Gateway. I think they were both excellent
adventure. It was a comment to the affect that a little leeway should be given
to the new batch of writers, NOT the lousy editing and publishing!, and
that their EFFORTS should be encouraged. With the nudge in the right direction, but as constructively as possible, not raw hostility! (That way Joey,
above, when he does find the TML, isn't afraid to ask about correcting his
timeline. As it is now, some of the posts would scare a 20 year veteran
writer away from a second attempt, IMHO!)

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:39:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: XatoKuom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller campaign

No group at present.  Damn all the luck!!

If there are any available groups in the Atlanta, GA vicinity that are
looking for players, feel free to drop me a line at:

Xatokuom@aol.com

Scott Quigg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:40:09 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Totally a matter of preference.

If I am directly answering a list of questions, then I quote the relative part 
of the question and answer beneath.

If I am simply answering a general inquiry, I put the answer at the top where 
it is easier to read and leave relevant text below as a reference.


On 17 Sep 97 at 3:21, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> > On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:46:22 -0700, Jory M. Earl wrote:
> >
>  How much?  And BTW, is it better to write BELOW the quote, or post my
>  reply
> ABOVE the quote?  What does everyone think?

 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 1997 02:43:19 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Fighter (TL5)

Fighter (TL5)
Designed by Robert Prior

Summary:
     1.00 displacement ton open-topped cylinder airframe;  4.69 tonnes;  kCr
664
Chassis:
     14.0 kL open-topped cylinder airframe (5.10 m long x 1.7 m wide x 1.7 m
high, wingspan 10 m);  Structure: 412 kg of hard steel, rated for 1.0Gs, body
0.010 cm thick, 1 armour rating
     
Performance:
     500 kW TL5 Imp. Internal Combustion power plant;  Fuel: 312 L of
high-grade hcarb (312 kg), 5 hours supply
     Propulsion System: 500 kW aircraft;  Maximum Speed: 192 km/h, Take-Off
Speed: 121 km/h;  Range: 960 km;  Agility: +3DM
Crew:
     Crew roster: pilot;  1 crew station
Armament:
     Weapon                          Damage    Range          Shots   
Reloads   Notes
     Machinegun, Heavy-5             6         Long           200     9      
  +2DM, coaxial
     Machinegun, Heavy-5             6         Long           200     9      
  coaxial
     Machinegun, Heavy-5             6         Long           200     9      
  coaxial
     *note: guns fire at same target, share +2DM for fire control (not in CSC
rules, but seems reasonable to me)
Communications:
     Subregional Radio (100 W, TL5, SmVcl, MilSpec)
Sensors:
     No sensors installed.


Designed with CSC (software (c) Robert Prior, 1997)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:01:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: XatoKuom@aol.com
Subject: Re: French hardware, etc.

In a message dated 97-09-17 16:02:07 EDT, you write:

<< >  Also, one Challenge mag had a 1200 mt assault tank. Imagine the 
 players
 >trying to figure out how to drive it on to their freighter without it 
 simply
 >dropping through the cargo bays decking :)
 
 Imagine the difficulty trying to find a planet with bridges capable of 
 supporting the damn thing!
  >>

Forget bridges!!!   What about the ground itself?  The Germans by 1944 had
designed a 1000mt tank powered by 4 U-boat diesels with a "projected" main
armament of one 800mm. cannon and 2 450mm "secondary cannons.  Talk about the
heights of absurdity.  Can we design it, however, with CSC?  That remains to
be seen.  

Scott Quigg(XatoKuom@aol.com)
In the Navajo tongue, Kemo Sabe means "Soggy Bush"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:36:29 -0500
From: ghost029@juno.com
Subject: Re: Big handguns and fighting in starships

Doug is right about the marines, I was on a boomer (Fleet Ballistic
Missile Submarine) tied up to a tender. My Chief and I were getting some
parts when the tender had a security drill called away. When you here one
you stop and get against a bulkhead. The Chief didn't want to, thought we
could make the boat before the marines got us. Wrong! Got to watch a
marine with an M-16 sit on the chief. Funny as hell at the time.
Thomas Harkless
ex MM1/SS
searching for Bradish and Harkless

On Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
writes:
>
>> > < Sound of load Buzzer Going off > Wrong answer. Nope we carried shotguns'cause
>> > they could fill your average passageway with lead. Training also included
>> > using things like aiming low so pellets would bounce off the deck taking off
>> > their legs. Heck when I was in the M14 was still the issue long arm.
>> 
>> Any truth to a TML posting six months or so ago stating that they were
>> for anti-terrorist or anti-boarding party use?  (The troops using the
>> shotguns would storm a room and the rest of the crew were trained to
>> hit the deck at the same time.  The only ones left standing were the
>> bad guys, who became easy targets.)
>> 
>
>Based on my experience, they issue shotguns to the ship's security
>personnel for a couple of reasons.  Traveller accurately reflects one 
>of
>those reasons.  If your charactor has no skill in Gun Cbt, which 
>weapon
>does he have the best chance to hit with?  Answer - the shotgun!  It's
>easy to learn, and once learned it does not require a lot of 
>maintenance
>to keep your skill at an acceptable level.
>
>It also is capable of inflicting a fair amount of damage to personnel,
>while minimizing equipment damage.  Of course, it's kind of hard to
>provide advancing personnel cover with one, which is why the teams are
>split between handguns and shotguns. 
>
>And yes, on American ships (at least as of 3 years ago), if a security
>alert is called away and you are in the area, you hit the deck.  We were
>trained to look for movement and home in on it.  A fair number of my
>shipmates spent some time secured and on the deck 'cause they were moving
>when my team would go by.  (It wasn't nearly as amusing on my last ship
>when the marines did it to me...:)
>
>--------------------------------------------
>Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
>                                              -Merlin
>
>douglas@teleport.com
>http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\
>
>MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
>      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP
>
>*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
>--------------------------------------------
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:21:15 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

Traveller-digest wrote:

> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:56:17 -0400
> From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
> Subject: Re: Chemical engines
>
>

<snip>

> You forgot to mention all the evil oil companies with their hidden safes
> full of all the water carburetor plans they've bought up to keep them
> off the market :)
>
> **********************************************************
> Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)
> ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
> Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
> Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

Paul,
Can't speak for the other oil companies, but we at Mobil Oil don't hide the
safe! We keep it right out in the open with 20 foot chain link fences, barb
wire and guard dogs! It's the combination that's kept hidden ;^>
PS as a cost savings measure, all of Mobil's vehicles used in the refinery I
work in run on water (NOT!) ;^)
PPS Trav vehicles do run on water, I think I'll change that for my games, Good
'Ole Hydrocarbs Only. The Emperor is really decended from J. Paul Getty! It's
all a Templer consperacy, THEY own all the oil!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:54:12 -0500
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: RE: Live Campaigns?

On Tuesday, September 16, 1997 10:29, Robert Eaglestone wrote:
> I'd like to take an informal poll.  How many of you are active
> in a Traveller campaign right now?  Are there some campaigns
> that have multiple representation on TML?  Has anyone tried to
> tally these numbers before?  How large is the average living
> campaign today?

Yeah, this comes up once or twice a year.

Too small.  Would like to run in a "shared" reality...

> And, just to make things complex, what is your rules system mix
> for your campaign?

Houston, TX
Modified T4 (pending the new yahtzee rules ;-)
Every other week
3 to 5 players normally (as many as 12)
Of ailing, but stable, health
1 eccentric GM ("No one else will run anything! No one will..")

Age?  Since the last time they got new characters?  *rofl*  Some times I 
think I'm qualified to DM at the Weis&Hickman 'Killer Breakfast' (we were 
playing early in the morning there for a while; breakfast tacos anyone?). 
Or the longest time two or more players have been playing together?

> P.S. At what point could a group split into two adventures?
> What's an ideal critical mass?

I recently started this (short-lived) discussion on the DarkConspiracy 
list and we came to the "consensus" that it depends on the players and the 
GMs ability to hold their attention.  Split when two or more players can't 
get along (well, if they can for five minutes, deal with it; less, shoot 
'em) -- Then run a set of "demo" adventures at your FLGS when you're sick 
of your players and can't take wasting your time on them anymore.  ;-\

Anything short of "critical mass" is ideal... too many RW weapons lying 
about...  "Put down my claymore, damn it!  The tonfas, too!"
______________________________________________________________________

David Reed           | All wickedness is weakness: that plea therefore
                     | With God or Man will gain thee no remission.
david@techrefuge.com |                -John Milton, "Samson Agonistes"
______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:11:05 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Inspirational reading; Honor Harrington

At 01:48 PM 9/17/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Has anyone read 'In Enemy Hands' yet?  I've only seen it in hardback, and
>at $22.00 it's a tough sell...

I haven't read it, but a fellow Honorophile just raved about it to me on
the phone.  Due to space constraints, I rarely buy hardbacks.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 06:00:29
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff

JM wrote :

>> Of course, if businesses act by aiming at a target rate of profits, and
>> then slacking off when they get there, we are in a swamp without a map,
>> and any damn thing can happen.
>
>	Break out your paddle because, IMHO, we're in the swamp.  
>Corporate America has become very good at using incentive schemes to come 
>closer to profit maximization (at least in the short-run) but most people 
>are employed by small businesses which probably still fall far short on 
>this mark.
>

*gasp* we are abandoning neoclassical economics :)

>> (PS if other people can geek about American gingoism and T2000, we can
>> geek about High Theory *grin* BTW, do you think the current US boom is
>> due to tech change [the payoff from all that investment in PCs] or part
>> of a Ponzi scheme based on the wealth affect from rising stock prices
>> boosting consumption, which keeps output high and boosts profits, thus
>> helping raise stock prices ?)
>
>	The real productivity gains can't be over-looked.  As far as 
>anyone can tell they are legitimate.  And really, it's about time.  Labor 
>productivity growth was stagnate for almost the last 20 years in the 
>U.S.  

Yeah. Personally, I hold the view that rising real wages drive productivity
gains - if you have a red ink problem due to the Metalworkers Union getting 
a 15% pay raise, you have a *reason* to do the 12 hour days figuring more 
efficient ways to use your plant and labour. OTOH if you can solve red ink
problems by calling in a unionbusting law firm and cutting wages and benefits,
then wage costs will fall but productivity measured on a workplace level (ie
revenue == materials costs + wages + profits) will not rise.

Speaking of which, I believe Pocket Empires did a pretty good job at modelling
economic growth and technical change ... use Population rather than planetary
size as the determinant on Infrastructure costs and times and it is just about
perfect IMO (and drop that bullshit about resource trade outside a free-trade
zone. And maybe play with the World Numbers to reflect the size of the world
GDPs involved. OK, OK, it's a great start and great fun to fiddle with).

>	I don't know how much of the profits from stock speculation have
>recycled back into the economy to fuel the boom.  I haven't looked at the
>numbers in any detail, but I understand that far more money is flowing
>into the market than flowing out.  That's not to say that the market
>itself hasn't been floating on a speculative bubble, but it's not clear 
>that it has spread to the rest of the economy.

Guess we'll find out when the market has a correction, and it does seem to
be getting skittish.

>
>	Historically, yeah free traders mattered a lot, but that's because
>there was no other way for the people on either end to trade with each
>other.  Once you have regular freight service and communications (which I
>assume exists in the Imperium) then there's far less need to do business
>this way.  When new areas of trade are opened (like the Dutch East Indies
>or a similarly rich new region in M0) then there will be a shortage of
>shipping that serves this region and ships captains will be able to
>operate like free traders until freight service and more normal commercial
>relations are established between buyers and sellers on either end that
>allow them to eliminate the free trader middle-man. 
>

It isnt quite true there was *no* other way. And by relying on a regular
freight service you have to wait for the money to come back, while the
Free Trader will offer you cash up front.

>Ian said:
>       <skilled gunners and other crew could be paid lots>
>
>	Okay, but what's the _supply_ of skilled gunners?  If it is 
>small, then you're right, they probably could demand better pay.  On the 
>other hand, their value depends on the probability of violent encounters 
>in space.  If the IN is worth a damn, these should be few.  Heck, even a 
>half-dozen SDBs can effectively control the 100-d limit of most planets.
>

The supply of really really good gunners is going to be low ... the people
at the far end of the curve are always going to be rare.

Also, if you are trading out in the Wilds, there is no IN. You are the Navy.
Elisabeth-class type frontier traders are going to be quite common - and if
I'm spending, what, over a gigacredit on a starship, I want someone
damn good to aim that gigawatt bay laser and protect my investment.

>> My view
>> is that Free Traders would be involved in long-haul trade, where the lag
>> time of a week in each port to find buyers is less signifigant. The
>> Megacorporations
>> run a blue crew/gold crew arrangement (land, refuel, load cargo, change
crew, 
>> leave ... I think you could cut turnaround in port to under 8 hours,
>> assuming maintainence is not due).
>
>	I agree that Megacorps are much more efficient about managing 
>ships in port and getting them back in j-space where they belong.  As for 
>FTs making long-haul runs, I still have to wonder why you can't stick it 
>on the freighters.  Even if they don't make those runs, you could still 
>"check through" (like baggage) your freight all they way to its 
>destination.

The Free Traders would be forced into long-haul speculative trade because
they are even more disadvantaged at short-haul trade. That one week to
find a buyer or seller is a *killer* when you average nine days trip time.
It's good old comparitive advantage.

> 
>> Anyway, taking cargo across a sector seems more heroic and adventurous than
>> doing short-haul runs along a main, and thus should be encouraged.
>
>	An excellent reason!  Actually, it even makes sense for time 
>sensitive goods.  FTs could serve a niche for goods, passengers, and info 
>that want the additional speed of a direct trip.  Particularly for 
>destinations not on the freight "hubs" FTs could make good long-haul 
>direct runs.  

Yup. Of course, once a corp *notices* that you can make good money scheduling
a freighter from Finn's Belt to Chanestin, the Free Trader is going to be
out of a job. But thats capitalism ;)

And time sensitivity counts for *high* value goods ... if a cargo costs
MCr1000 and interest rates are 5%, then each day you are waiting for a 
freighter costs, what KCr150 ? (ummm MCr 5 over 365 days ... close enough).
Of course, if you have a gigacredit cargo, you are goanna put some people
on board to stop hijacking. But then again, the Spanish sometimes sent
payrolls
for their armies on single ships in the 16th and 17th C (references from
Braudel on request).


>	I could even see a group of Free Traders learning that a company on the
>world they're on is making a big shipment to a world on the other side of
>the subsector because of a shortage there.  The Free Traders could then 
>try to get a hold of some of the goods themselves and beat the big 
>shipment to market.  They'd never be able to haul enough to slake demand, 
>but that just means they can charge more for what they _do_ bring!
>	This idea is beginning to make more sense to me.  When I get some
>time, I'll sit down with a sub-sector and try to think about this more
>concretely. For sure though, the J-1 Free Trader would be inferior to the 
>J-2 Far Trader for this sort of work.

You bet. Speed and flexibility count ... Jump-3 may even be viable for
this sort of trade. IMO the Jump-1 "Free Trader" would actually be more
common as a corporate design, due to it's standardisation and thus it's
ease of manufacture and availablitity of spare parts.

The other major factor is the fall in transport costs as ruling TL goes up. 
A TL-11 jump-2 Far Trader will over time cost less and less to build in
Imperial 
Credits, as the local credit of the Starport A, TL 11 world gradually falls. 
If freight costs are always set in Imperial credits, then these will fall over
time (althought this is limited at the bottom end - many worlds dont like
Fusion and HePLAR fusion drives used around here, because they have this thing
against high-velocity radioactive hydrogen being spewed about in their orbital
space).

>
>> This might be true, but it doesnt feel Trav ... although I am reminded 
>> about George Orwell's essay about when Whitehall began to run India by
>> telegraph. This is, I think, the way things work in the staid, settled
>> areas of the Imperium (ie nowhere in M0, most everywhere by 1100).
>
>	You're right that it doesn't feel much like Trav.  But then, who 
>ever adventured in the "staid, settled areas of the Imperium" anyway?  
>The Marches were always supposed to be a frontier.
>

*nod* my reading of the Marches is that by 1100 they had become a "frozen"
frontier ... the Imperium had hit it's natural borders, and had turned
inwards (heck, this was supposed to have happened at the Civil Wars).

>> Oh, and I dont believe in Subsidized Merchants per se (although, given
>> bureaucracy and politics, all things are possible.
>	I think the deal with SMs is not encouraging shipping per se, but 
>encouraging frequent, but uneconomic, contact between backwater worlds 
>and the rest of the Imperium.  The economic logic might dictate that a 
>big freighter call on a small world every few weeks, while the needs of 
>steady commercial and political ties requires contact every few days.  
>

Yup. But for me, the vessel to do that is the workhorse Type S scout. Why
the heck do people think the Imperium gives away all those Type S's on
detached duty, anyway ?

Kenji Schwartz wrote :

>But -- but -- Spofulam can't leave *yet*!  The proposed expansion to FF&S2
>is going to include "wetware"!
>
>

I have to say, for me, Famile Spofulum are one of the best things about the
TML. 

I would also like to submit a new slogan to Hengbar and the boys at FS ...
"At sixty rounds a second, the loudest noise a Famile Spofulum Gauss
Machine Pistol makes is the creak of it's Ardalope-horn trigger. Unless of
course you choose to set the muzzle velocity of the crystaliron flechettes 
at 4.5 kilometers per second."

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1845
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 18 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1846



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture)
Re: Aslan
Re: Jump in Traveller
Houston TMLers?
Question on Drugs
FF&S2 Question
Dark Conspiracy
Re: Chemical engines (fwd)
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Communism in Traveller (Was Re: The politics of money )
Re: Kenji Shwarz
Re: More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff
Re:programs
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1840
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: FF&S2 Drop tanks
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1841
Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth
smuggling nukes
Re: X-boats & couriers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:25:58 -0500
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture)

On Monday, September 15, 1997 07:54, John Atkinson wrote:
> >And I expect most high grade "software" like that to actually be
> firmware.
> > Possibly embedded or on special ROM type plugin-cards.  With software
> being
>
> In Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion books, all of the Legion's
> computor-controlled equipment (and that's a lot of things, down to the
> individual radios) had their 'software' permenantly engraved on
> synthetic diamond disks they referred to as 'WORM-Write Once, Read
> Many' memory.  Couldn't reprogram it, but is pretty secure from any
> sort of tampering.  I'd think a lot of things on a starship (say, like
> the reactor control program or the autopilot) that don't need
> reprogrammed would be on this basis to prevent tampering.

If this is true, how do we then tweak our 'puters to do this or that 
better-faster-longer than they're programmed to do?  (I *vaguely* remember 
seeing several task for this in various Traveller systems... and, no, 
rewritable environment variable matrices don't cut it, either - limited 
variability that can't deal with entirely new params outside the program 
spec.)

Has perpetual betaware been done away with?

The ability to "re-write" at least your "non"-critical, but 
very-important, systems' software would be too useful for folks who 
operate beyond the fringe to give up.  "Let me get this straight.  I'm 
usually at least two months out of regular contact, I can't access the 
system code or fix a bug myself, but I get your 'gold-lifetime-onsite' 
service package for only MCr1?  Who's your competitor down the street?"


I've been thinking about jumping to the implications of s/w in Traveller:

* How do you call the helpdesk when you're gunnery program GPFs?

* How do you sue the manufacturer/publisher if you misjump into the 
"choose-your-own" Rift?

* Could you talk your AI into violating its own copy protection in an, um, 
"emergency"?  (There's a short story, at least, in that somewhere.)

* What do astrogators really do with all of their spare time?  Or on the 
job for that matter?

* Rather than dongle with copy.prot, haven't the s/w companies simply 
raised prices to the legitimate customer?  And, of course, Microfirm 
*could* persuade His Majesty to drop a legion or two of shock troops (aka 
attorneys) to persue "hard drive loading" violators in some backwater... 
 I seem to remember there being some treatment of copyright/patent issues 
in M:0 (got that new hardcover today, judgement witheld pending review).

* How long does it take for a trade secrets or patent violation case to 
get to trial?  How much does it cost?  How long are patents and copyrights 
given before they expire legally into the public domain?

* Does a ship's computer have any games other than Solitaire and 
Minesweeper?

** What are the Imperial subpeona laws like?  Do you still get the 
statutory MCr1 per day for showing up?  How do you find a jury of "peers"? 
 (Sorry, US judicial jargon leaking through here...)

More meanderings later...
______________________________________________________________________

David Reed           | All wickedness is weakness: that plea therefore
                     | With God or Man will gain thee no remission.
david@techrefuge.com |                -John Milton, "Samson Agonistes"
______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:40:30 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Aslan

>There's a difference between the referee being tipped to the occurance of
>clans where females control the clan politics (because a certain patriarch
>is a ninny and his wives happen to lack a natural feminine interest in
>finance and machinery, for example), and having an such female-dominated
>clans be overtly institutionalized in society, which is what it sounded
>like Marc was proposing.

The impression I got was that female-dominated clans were
institutionalized, but they were oriented more toward things like running
trade, training academies, or social services than butting heads and trying
to amass territory. I especially didn't want female-dominated clans to be
just like the males; I wanted entirely different clans.

>Access to power is
>contestable in any sort of setup, but access to the sources of legitimacy
>in a kinship-based political system is much more restricted.  If you make
>exceptions like this to the patrilineal, patriarchal system of clan and
>inter-clan governance, it's going to have a massive ripple-down effect to
>the level of kinship and, er, "family values".

Hmmm. I see what you mean. The non-traditional clans don't have to be
female-dominated, they just have to be, well, non-traditional. That's what
I was trying to come up with; an aspect of Aslan society we haven't seen
before. I just felt that Marc's proposed female-dominated clans would be
more likely to have an unusual social structure than the male-dominated
ones.

Having female-dominated clans is not even necessary for this. Perhaps some
remote systems aren't even clan-based, or are based on clans that are not
just "female-dominated" but exclusively female? A "massive ripple-down
effect" was exactly the effect I was looking for, if not in the patriarchy
then in some other Alsan social structure.

>Why would normal clans deal with the glaring liability of a clan run by
>females -- who as everyone knows, simply don't have the mental capacity to
>handle big important geopolitical topics and diplomacy and whatnot?

Well, I imagined them not being at all interested in "important
geopolitical topics and diplomacy and whatnot". If you can't buy female
clans, how about other social arrangments?

>The "female-dominant clan" [hmm, a kink-positive new supplement for White
>Wolf Games, perhaps?] is maybe the Aslan "corporation", which IIRC can be
>semi-independent of their clans-of-CEO-origin, or in some cases truly
>clan-independent.

Yeah, good idea (corporations or independent clans, that is, not the WW
supplement).

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:43:13 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

>> It's possible because the gravitational interaction goes both ways; if the
>> ship interacts with the "natural gravity of N-space objects", then those
>> objects interact with the ship.
>
>Not necessarily true! The curvature of N-space can warp J-space without
>the reverse being true. It's possible that mass doesn't curve J-space.
>In which case there's no corresponding warpage to feed back to N-space.

Well, that would contradict Newton's third law. Yeah, yeah, I know it's SF,
but why break physical laws you don't have to. Also, if J-space doesn't
have *some* potential energy change due to the N-space interaction we get
violation of conservation of energy. If it does change PE, we can use that
to get the same results.

Anyway, the original message of this thread said there wouldn't be any bad
effects if we let objects in J-space and N-space interact gravitationally.
That they could affect each other was an initial assumption.

>Two problems. First, that array will have to be a *lot* more than
>"hundreds" of kilometers on a side. Consider the possible course lines,
>given various start and end points in the two systems. Just between the
>two mainworlds givens you a spread of courselines as wide as their
>orbits (a couple of AU, ie about 300 *million* kilometers). Second, not
>only do you have to position the array *very* carefully, but every
>sensor has to have the same velocity. And that velocity has to be such
>that the array will *stay* between the systems, in spite of their
>relative motions.

I beg to differ. You don't cover their entire orbit, that would be silly.
The arrays maintain position just outside the jump point to the other
system. The sensors only need enough maneuverability to maintain position.
Relative motion between systems won't cause a problem because they are not
*accelerating* relative to each other to any great extent.

Nor does the position need be so exact. We can already measure the distance
between objects in space to a precision of a fraction of a wavelength of
light; the sensors can track accurate distances between each other and
factor them in.

>Next, if the gravity from an object in J-space affects N-space, you
>have this gravity well going past at FTL speeds. Since gravity
>*propogates* at the speed of light, things get a bit weird here...

True. I think Azimov described it as a "photic boom" in one story; the
signal seems to originate at the destination and travel to the origin.

>BTW, what good does it do you to detect the ships when you can't get
>the info anywhere *before* the ship gets there?

The same good radio or TV, which we can't travel faster than, do on Earth.
Obviously you have to have the message ready before the ship arrives. Since
the interaction lasts only for a fraction of a second you can exchange
information but can't carry on a conversation. Also, remember this works if
the ships don't stop; you can communicate with ships just passing through.

>> If gravitational effects can precipitate a ship from jump, or destroy
>> it if large enough, you can attack ships in jump using a large enough
>> artificial gravitational field.
>
>And how do you get this in front of the target in time?

It has to already be running before the ship arrives, just like any other
defensive line. You don't wait for the bombs to begin falling before you
build the radar station.

>> Since J-space is 2-dimensional, it is possible to construct a
>> gravitational "fence" in J-space.
>
>Excuse me? The only reason things are 2-d in the game (which *includes*
>N-space!) is because 3d maps are *way* too much trouble.

I didn't say "things" are 2D, I said "J-space" is 2D. Look at the jump
distances between systems; everything can only fit on a plane. Sure, 3D
maps are too much trouble in a game, but why is jump space 2D in the Third
Imperium? You know, the fictional universe all this stuff takes place in?
Unless you have some real world evidence about physical properties of
J-space, all the data we have about J-space is in the the Traveller
rulebooks, and every book draws jump maps on flat pieces of paper. I'm not
trying to be snarky, the only reality about "J-space" is in the game, and
if the game shows it as 2-dimensional then it *really is*.

>First thing, you'll need one *hell* of a grav emitter. Second, you've
>got to get it close to the ship's course (gee, how'd you know about it
>in advance?) and finally, how do you get the message to the array
>before the ship goes by?

Why would we need such a huge grav emitter? Current technology can detect
microgravity and I would think TL 12 could do even better. Remember we're
not trying to move planets; we only need to make a signal which is
detectable.

As for ship's courses; remember the premise of this whole thing was that
ships follow straight lines through N-space while in jump. You know where
the jump points are, you can draw a straight line, you put the arrays on
the lines. And again, the message is waiting at the array before the ship
goes by.

>Assuming that gravity *in* jumpspace has any effects *on* jumpspace.

It doesn't need to. Remember, this was all based on the assumption that you
can have gravitational interactions between objects in J-space and N-space.
Ship A makes a gravitational signal in N-space which ship B detects. Maybe
A could interact with B directly, but it isn't necessary.

>Again, j-space *isn't* 2-d.

Maybe in your campaign, but every jump map published in every version of
Traveller is 2D. I don't think this is some kind of typo, but considering
MT and T4 one can never be sure.

IIRC there was a thread a few months ago trying to explain why jump maps
are 2D. The best one I heard was that jump space itself is 2D. Apparently
2-space and 3-space are of the same cardinality, so there is a 1-1 mapping
between J-space and N-space. Topographically they are very different, so I
felt it extremely unlikely that a straight line in J-space would map to a
straight line in N-space. This also explains why stars aren't in the same
relative positions on jump maps as in N-space. If this isn't canon it
should be.


- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:48:51 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Houston TMLers?

All of this posting about on-going campaigns and a private e-mail got me
to thinking how many people on this list are in Houston.

Maybe we can all get together and meet each other.  Heck, I'll start a
task debate, and we can all get into a huge fist fight...ah, just
kidding!

But, it would be nice to throw together a TML get-to-gether some place,
some time.

Anybody from Houston?  Anybody interested in getting together and
trading war stories about our favorite RPG--discuss Marc's work on T4.1?

I know me and my four players would be game.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:09:02 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Question on Drugs

I am putting together a list of Traveller drugs for my player who runs
the ship's medical officer.  We are trying to spruce up the good
doctor's involvement. So far, I am incorporating some detailed medical
rules that I found in Traveller's Digest #13, and I am making this list
of Traveller drugs so he can use them in the game.

I need to solicit opinions from you on the list.

Check out the CSC.  In it are two new drugs for Traveller--bandage and
fuzz.  

Question 1:  What TL do you think each is?  I'm guessing TL 6 Bandage
Spray and TL 8 Fuzz Spray.

Question 2:  What do you think the cost per dose is for these two
drugs?  Pulling numbers out of the air, I'm thinking Cr100 per dose for
the Bandage (although now I'm thinking that may be a bit high), and
Cr400 per dose for Fuzz (that's seems to me to be just about right).

What do you think the answers to these two questions should be?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:11:35 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: FF&S2 Question

For those of you with FF&S2...

Is there a section, like chapter 12 in the TNE version of FF&S, that
deals with cybernetic implants?

One of my players is showing interest in this area, and I'm thinking
what the heck--this is a science fiction game.

I've got the TNE version of FF&S, but I'm going to go out and buy the T4
version if this is contained in it.

Thanks,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:47:14 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Dark Conspiracy

OK, so this is a bit off topic, but I'm desparate...

Anyone got a copy of the Dark Conspiracy rulebook theyd be willing to sell
to me?

David Moodie
_______________________________________________________
THE MANY FACES OF WASHU GALLERY       
http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/gilliams/52  
- -------------------------------------------------------
Washu devotee and worshipper of Traveller : The New Era 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:57:27 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Chemical engines (fwd)

Moin Bruce Johnson,

> 	Yeah, what James said. If you want to see what can be sqoze out of
> IC engines, look at the design of a top end crotch rocket motorcycle...a
> few years back, production Yamaha 1200's were putting out more
> acceleration than anything legal on the road and most things that weren't
> legal on the road...like F16's ;-)

	I think you have the wrong roads. In germay its legal to drive
	such a beast at full speed on a german highway. Perhaps thats
	the reason that a Benz shows comfort at a speed of 130mph.
	From the bicycle point of view anything above 50hp is a waste
	of fuel.

	My SR500 normaly drinks only 4.5l for 100 miles in city usage,
	and 4l at 50mph, which is much less than any other bike I know.

> Of course, if you want to be really insane, I mean truly insane, look at
> what they get out of top fuel dragsters these days.

	The realy insane stuff of course is "forbidden" since 15 years.
	Hercules Ultra or VanVeen Kreidler where 50ccm motorbikes, and
	50ccm without any further constrains was allowed at 16.
	Those monsters showed more than 10hp at 15.000 rpm and a
	top speed of 80mph, by a weight of less then 50 kilos.
	But of course it was fun to drive 120kmh 16 years ago ;-)

	They restricted the class 4 drivers licence to 16 years,
	80ccm, 50mph, 6000rpm.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:45:58 -0400
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Active Gaming:

Location:           Athens, GA
Age:                  Campaign 10 years, This group 3 months
Meeting Frequency:   Once a month
Group Size:       5
Referees:          1 (me)
Health:              On hold while we sort out 4 school schedules (2 HS, 
	2 college) and 4 work schedules (1 full time, 3 part)
Rules Mix:         70% T4, 20% CT, 10% whatever I feel like stealing
Setting:             Slightly before the founding of the 3I (It's been very
in-
	teresting taking the 10y old 1100's campaign and "backdating" it)


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:08:20 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Communism in Traveller (Was Re: The politics of money )

Anders Backman wrote

> >This ability to save for a rainy day is not something that many bodies
> >politic have learned throughout human history.  Given how little we've
> >changed politically-speaking since the stone age (methods only have
> >changed, not means or motivations), I don't foresee too many "enlightened"
> >cultures doing this.  A question also is how free the economy is with its
> >social spending.  Never thought about it until now, but there seem to be a
> >total lack of communist cultures, outside of the Zhos, in Traveller.
> > Anyone remember any?

How about the K'Kree ?  They do everything in groups and consider the
group, not the individual.  They do, of course, have a stratified
hierarchical social structure (commoners, well born & nobles) that is
antithetical to the Marxist ideal of a class based society (But similar
to the way things actually operated in communist countries where the
nomenklatura ran things.)

Have you taken a look at the government type table ?  _All_ of the
(Imperial) Traveller government types could be communistic and for many
government types it is a probable explanation. 

Government Type

0	No Government - This could be the ultimate marxist state after 		the
state withers away.

1	Company/Corporation - This is a bit of a hard sell but remember 	that
many "communist" countries do have corporations.  This 		might represent
a planet controlled by a state owned company 		from a nearby communist
planet.

2	Participating Democracy	- This could represent a utopian 	
collectivist society.

3	Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy - A communist party whose membership 	is
hereditary.

4	Representative Democracy - Many communist counries were 		democratic
on paper.  This could also represent a society whose
	people chose elected representative to help them on their way to 	the
classless society in marxist ideology.

5	Feudal Technocracy - This could represent a world where the 		party is
in charge of technical achievement.  Can you say 		Lysenko, boys and
girls ? :)

6	Captive Government/Colony - Not an unreasonable description for 	the
governmnets of some Eastern block countries when Soviet 		power was at
its zenith.  Remember that the Soviet Union ran 		some of the eastern
block as if they were wholey owned 			subsidiaries.

7	Balkanization - Could include communism.

8	Civil Service Bureacucracy - Could represent a mild form of 	
communism or (more likely) some form of socialism.

9	Impersonal Bureaucracy - This might be a good description for 		the
actual governmnet of many "communist" nations that are not 		so lacking
in human rights as to fir in another, higher, 		government type.

A	Charismatic Dictator - A communist state run by a Stalin or a 		Mao
(see also government type F).

B	Non Charismatic Leader - A communist state run by a leader 		without
much personal appeal - can anyone out there say Brezhnev 	:)

C	Charismatic Oligarchy - The masses believe in & support the 		party,
which they allow to lead them.  If the party is 			especially harsh we
would have government type F.

D	Religious Dictatorship - If "religion" in Traveller includes 	
nontheistic ideologies than classifying many communist states as 
"Religious" dictatorships would not be far off.

E	Religious Autocracy - As government type D.

F	Totalitarian Oligarchy - This is the American stereotypical 		(with
some validity) picture of what the Russian government was 	"really" like
during the cold war.

So many people in the Imperium could be "communists".

> Why are the Zhos communists (except for their evilness, badness
> un-americanness etc)?

The Zhodhani are the bad guys.  The Imperium is the "good" guys. 
Traveller was written in the 1970's therefore its bad guys _must_ be
communists :)

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:41:01 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Kenji Shwarz

yeah that sounds cool .{ not that I have changed my oppinion on those
earlier subjects , I just got tired of argueing . } your a teacher huh ?
I am currently going for my teaching degree myself [ math major ] here in
florida . 


good luck 


jim mckee

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:41:02 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff

>I have to say, for me, Famile Spofulum are one of the best things 
>about the
>TML. 

I came in late on this one guys , who are the spofulum and what does TML
mean ??

thank you in advance



jim mckee

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:41:01 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:programs

what I would ;like to see would be a program that allows for the creation
of geo maps 
{ like those in CT adventures } and generate world data quickly . also a
subsector map maker would be great . anyone seen any of these ?


jim mckee
solomani rule !

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:25:20 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1840

Thanks.  i had thought that replying then having the message text coming
after that, would allow people to skim my replies fast, and read more if
something caught thier eyes.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 02:46:55 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

ok, thanks for answering.  My next question is, are my qutoes coming
accross as "quoted"?  I'm using Netscape Communicator 4.03 and it shows
a blue line next to quoted text.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:13:56 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Drop tanks

> Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> wrote:
> > [097-1105 TAS Article]
> 
> Thanks, Douglas; I stand corrected (serves me right for relying on my
> memory).  The TAS article definitely states that drop tanks are made
> possible by "recent" advances in capacitor technology.  It further states
> that "local" yards (TL-D) are not capable of constructing the new
> capacitors, but are capable of building drop tanks.
> 
> Thus, for the canonical Imperium campaign, jump drives that can take
> advantage of drop tanks should be available only at TL-F and/or the
> post-1090 Imperial era.  This should probably be added to the FF&S2
> errata, to prevent unfortunate accidents with the canon.

A suggestion: Since "High Guard" allowed drop tanks at any TL (above 8,
of course), and since there are canonical designs with drop tanks at
lower than TL 15, say that the early prototypes -- the first generation 
of these new capacitors -- requires TL 15 (or 14) to build. They also
have to be discharged almost immidiately after having been charged,
which leads to dangerous situations if the decoupling goes wrong. The
next generation -- once all the bugs are ironed out -- can be built at
TL 9. This version can retain the charge for several hours before 
having to be discharged (the kind described in _Starship Operator's
Manual_).

Oh, an you should also allow a decidedly dangerous version before 1090
to account for the Scout ship that got away from the Islands Cluster
(A 1-in-36 risk of disaster may be acceptable to castaways anxious to
get home to their loved ones, but would be completely unacceptable for
commercial use).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:39:35 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1841

Apologies to everyone for reposting an entire digest. I was in the middle
of editing a response to Wildstar when my terminal seized up and I was 
forced to kill the process. Evidently that somehow caused the computer
to post on its own.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:52:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Merconomics and catheters  (was RE: Mercenaries: Guilds, Registration, oth

In mail you write:

> In a message dated 97-09-16 03:36:06 EDT, you write:
>
> << > Actually, if the leagility part does not bother you making a pirate
> radio or<<
> <snip>
>
> Who said anything about getting caught?

Pirate radio stations don't have a good record for *not* getting caught.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:40:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: smuggling nukes

In mail you write:

> Depends if they admitted to it... eg here you are son. I want you to take
> this highly important diplomatic package on the flight to New York
> (for-ex). "Please fasten your seat belts for the approach to JFK <BOOM>"
>
> Dom (scared by the thought of nuclear terrorism after talking to some
> friends who worked making nukes).

Hey, Clive Cussler (he writes mind-candy, but still has the occasional
good idea), had nukes being shipped into the country built into the
heater core of imported autos.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:42:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: X-boats & couriers

In mail you write:

> Finally, there is the matter of actually basing them at Sylea.  You can
> only stick so many ships in orbit before things start to happen, and Sylea
> will have a lot of traffic to begin with.

On the other hand, sit down and figure out how much "parking space"
there is at the 100 diameter limit. It's far quicker to have the
couriers "parked" out there and "beam" the news to them via radio or
laser rather than have them closer and then have to waste time getting
to where they can jump.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1846
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 18 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1847



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Chemical engines
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Hackett, Ing
Re: Aslan
Re: Merconomics and catheters
Re: How to get things done!
Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
Re: Ship economics
Re: Sensors
Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
Re: X-boats and couriers
Re: Live Campaigns and........Mechwarrior
Re: Live Campaigns?
Fuel requirements for MT starships
Re: Mercenary economics
Re: FF&S2 Question
Re:  Sensors

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:49:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

In mail you write:

>>You'd be surprised ;)  Actually, what is holding back the IC engine is
>>not any inherent design "thingies", but the demands of the people that
>>use them (who needs to go from 0-60 mph in under 5 seconds just to
>>pick up the kids from daycare).  Gas economy and emissions are also
>>major factors :)
>
> You forgot to mention all the evil oil companies with their hidden safes
> full of all the water carburetor plans they've bought up to keep them 
> off the market :)

Ever hear the *real* story behind the "engine that runs on water"
stories? 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:41:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

In mail you write:

>> I've got a spare copy of Scouts if you're interested.
>>
>> James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
>>   "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"
>>
>> "Give me the strength to change the things I can,
>>     the grace to accept the things I cannot,
>>          and a great big bag of money."
>
>  How much?  And BTW, is it better to write BELOW the quote, or post my reply
> ABOVE the quote?  What does everyone think?

Standard is to trim the message to just the relevant parts and place
your comments on a section directly below that section. Then, if
necessary, another quoted section, and your comments on that section.
Repeat as necessary.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:02:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

In mail you write:

> Location     :  Camas, Washington (in the northwest)
> Age            :  33; Campaign is over 10 years old.
> Meeting      :  Used to be once a week, now it's in Email.
> Group Size :  5, more always welcome.  :)
> Referees     : 1 <me>
> Health         :  ?????  Don't know how to answer this one.
> Rules Mix   : Classic Traveller 35%, MegaTraveller 15%, Gamma World 2nd
> Edition 50%.

What, not GW 3rd edition? :-)
BTW, when I finally dig that deep into my storage locker, I have all
three editions of Gamma World, as well as Metamorphosis Alpha (sort of
a spaceborne predecessor to GW).

> Imperium.  The Sword Worlds leader Lucas Trask has fought the Imperial

Lucas Trask? Gee, you must have read Space Viking... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:29:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hackett, Ing

In mail you write:

>
>>Folks have already mentioned "The Third World War" by Gen. Hackket.
>>There's also a sequel running around. I have it, but it's in storage.
>
>   "WW 3 - The Twilight Struggle" or somesuch - same war, but in 
> secondary theaters, and non-conventional aspects.
>>
>>Dean Ing wrote a series of three books that start with the above
>>"history" as background and go on with some more fighting and sneak
>>attacks etc. The first book is "Systemic Shock". I can't recall the
>>titles of the other two right now.
>
>   "Single Combat" (highly recommended) and "Wild Country".

A friend and I got Dean to settle a bet we had regarding the "pig" in
"Wild Country". He was at a local SF con and we cornered him after a
panel. 

He'd make an interesting T2K ref... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:45:56 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Aslan

In mail you write:

>         on this same note a female aslan who wanted to be a warrior would
> be viewed as a abomination and would bring great shame and dishonor upon
> her family 
> ( possibly leading to ritual suicide ) as would a male who wanted to be a
> computer tech. I think the aslan culture is genitically ingrained so I
> don't think the above would happen . of course this is all my oppinion
> and how I do it in my campaign .

Well, given the fact that even genetically determined roles sometimes
get "mixed", I'd suspect that the Aslan would have some provision for
the (rare) male or female with the wrong "program". Most likely the
male computer programmer would have been "ritually" made a female, and
vice versa for the female warrior.

Societies *have* to have escape valves for those who "don't fit". The
Aslan society seems far too stable to not have such safety valves.

Such "exceptions" would be rare, and unlikely to be player characters.
But they'd be great for a one time encounter to rattle your players a
bit.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:56:25 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Merconomics and catheters

In mail you write:

>>And given lube and training, it takes all of about a minute to insert
>>an internal cath. Women have it a bit easier, as their urethra is a lot
>>shorter, and pretty much a straight shot (none of the bends that making
>>putting a cath in a male so tricky).
>
> The disadvantage of female cathing is *finding* the urethral meatus. 
> With the vagarities of human anatomy being what they are, there are a
> multitude of areas it can be in to begin with, and in addition its location
> and appearance can actually change over time with childbirth, aging,
> etc. And the appearance itself can and does vary considerably from 
> individual to individual, about 50% of the time, a good deal of searching
> is required, and I've put in a shitload of caths. While once found, an 
> individual female would know the general location of her meatus, it
> is also in a rather inconvenient location as regards self-cathing. I can
> definitely see it would take a good deal more flexibility and time than
> using a condom cath in many cases. Everyone I know much prefers to
> cath males, even considering the length of the urethra and the all to 
> common problem of enlarged prostates to deal with...

That sort of leaves the women with a choice between wearing an
indwelling cath while "on call" or putting up with the mess from the
"funnel" type gizmos (complete with adhesive edges, and a great way to
get infections).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:24:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: How to get things done!

In mail you write:

>>What about using ground-based lasers to lift small cargo ship into low earth
>>orbit?
>
> That's not being pursued actively at the same level of interest as the SSTO/
> TSTO designs...Plausible laser launch systems tend to be capable of 
> getting about 50 kg payloads into LEO; gun-type launch systems (bigger 
> versions of livermore's SHARP gun) have similar capabilities. There's no
> demonstrated market for 50kg satellites sufficiently large to pay off the
> big capital costs of setting up such a system. 
>
> Personally, I find the guns more plausible than the lasers - but maybe that's
> because I spend much time working with people here at LLNL who do big laser
> stuff, so I have some idea of the difficulties involved. 

Well, Jordin Kare was still optomistic the last time I heard him talk
about laser launchers (of course, that *was* a few years back).

> In traveller terms, gas guns, laser launch systems (and more exotic things
> like big mass drivers and beanstalks) are all the sort of thing you develop
> on an early TL-9 world before you have gravitics - there's a very narrow
> technological window before they're all obsolete (probably too narrow for
> any world to ever build a beanstalk.) Still, a TL-9- world might have a 
> substantial laser launch system in place...maybe good enough to put several
> hundred kg payloads into orbit, or even small ships (Traveller lasers are
> better than real-world lasers.)

I can picture a world going ahead with a laser launch system simply
because the required laser installations would make a nice part of a
planetary defense system. The sort of thing that'd make higher tech
worlds decide that it's easier to trade than raid. In short, just what
you might expect to find in the "Wilds" during and after the Long Night.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:57:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

In mail you write:

> Presently, our party is situated on a vacuum world (Dinom, in the
> Lanth sub-sector). My questions relates to which personal weapon
> would and would not work in a vacuum atmosphere.  I would think that
> most firearms would not work, such as pistols, rifles, etc. Would an
> ACR work?

Gunpowder supplies its *own* oxygen. The only change needed to make
most firearms function in vacuum is to change the lubricant. And for
gas-operated actions, you'd have to adjust the gas ports.

The lube change is just to get one that doesn't get gummy, or dry out
in vacuum. Much like you have to change lube for Arctic use, to keep
the action from gumming up.

> (BTW, can someone explain to me what DS amo is ?
> Discarding sabot...???...) I think probably not.

Yep. Discarding Sabot. They make DS ammo for *shotguns* right now, and
I've heard talk of them for some of the larger rifle calibers.

> Would grenades work?

Yes and no. You wouldn't get much blast effect unless you were right on
top of the grenade. Shrapnel effects would be normal (actually, the
shrapnel would carry farther, but probably not enough farther to make a
special rule about).

Smoke grenades would be pretty weird, as smoke is small *solid*
particles suspended in the air. In a vacuum, a smoke particle drops at
the same speed as a rock. So the smoke would fall rapidly to the ground
and lay there!

In free fall, it'd just spread out in a spherical cloud and disperse
rapidly (as there's no air resistance to keep it from spreading out
indefinitely).

BTW, a paintball gun could be nasty in a vacuum. Shoot someone in the
faceplate and the paint covers it and dries almost instantly. Kinda
hard to see out of a paint covered faceplate. :-)

I have this picture of a bunch of "street punk" types with "harmless"
paintball guns harassing the off-worlders who are intruding on their
turf. Wouldn't the players be surprised. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:00:00 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ship economics

John Macpherson writes:

>	The ship owner would have a higher return, but not really that 
>much higher.  The simple fact is that he doesn't get the ship for 40 
>years, and the discounted present value of that ship is pretty small.  

I see. I guess that makes sense, in a completely counterintuitive way.

>You quoted a canonical source that ships were worth 25% of the purchase 
>price at the end of 40 years.  For a 100MCr ship, that's 25MCr.  Using 
>the same interest rate the bank gets, the discounted present value of 
>25MCr 40 years from now is less than 3MCr.  This means that instead of 
>the 5.52% that the bank gets the ship owner gets something like 6.2% (I 
>don't have my spreadsheet with me).  That's really not an earth shaking 
>difference.  Considering the larger risk the ship owner is taking, its 
>not an unjustified rate of return, and using the same payment schedule 
>for both the bank and ship owner is convenient.

It would have been even more convenient if I had known this before I
redid all my original calculations (which did give the owner and the
bank the same payments). Sigh... Well, I'm not going to redo then again
just yet. But I'll do it in any future calculations.

>P.S. Note that I have revised my figure for the banks rate of return.  I 
>discovered that I had the function set to count their loan payments as 
>coming at the beginning of the year instead of the end, so they 
>effectively got a discount on the ship's purchase price.  The new 5.52% 
>figure I'm sticking to. :-)

The bank gets its payments in monthly rates (at the end of the month).
Does that affect the figure? ;-)


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:08:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sensors

In mail you write:

> I'm doing some write-ups of different planets and hit upon a question.
> What type of sensors would a high populated, fairly rich planet have.
> Would they relay on passive sattelite sensors, or would they use active
> sensors? What would military ships protecting this world, I'm here
> thinking planetary defence boats, use?

Well, I'd say that active sensors would cover things out to the 100
diameter limit (and a bit beyond), and do so from several locations and
at different wavelengths. This would be for traffic control purposes,
but it'd do nicely for defense purposes.

The locations and courses derived from this info would normally be
being broadcast on several standard frequencies, so as to let ships
minimize use of their own ative sensors (and thus reduce the inevitable
interference that would otherwise result).

In wartime, the broadcasts would be encrypted, so the local forces
could pick up the data while staying passive, but invaders would have
to rely on active sensors (giving away their positions), or else
proceed more cautiously using passive sensors.

Among other "tricks", a lot of things normally IDed as dead satellites
awaiting salvage, or other large but harmless items may turn out to be
camoflaged SDBs! So even if you have a copy of the "orbital inventory"
from before the start of hostilities, it may not be something you want
to trust a lot.

> Another question that is more ship combat related is in the same field.
> Is it possible for a ship to hide in the active pulse of a sensor? Maybe I
> should explain my question. A ship is running from another ship in a well
> trafficated system. In trying to avoid the ships sensors while still using
> HEPlaR engines, the running ship picks one of the military ships using
> active sensors and positions themself right between this ship and the
> follower. Would this blur out the running ship?

If another ship in the area is using active sensors, you'll set yours
to use a different wavelength. This is to prevent getting "blinded" by
their pulses. So that sort of kills your idea.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:32:35 +0300
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

> My questions relates to which personal weapon would and would not
> work in a vacuum atmosphere.  I would think that most firearms
> would not work, such as pistols, rifles, etc. Would an ACR work?

	Most firearms are likely to work normally in vacuum, except
	that projectile will not be slowed down by aerodynamic drag,
	and thus the projectile will retain its velocity and be lethal
	in longer ranges than in atmosphere.

	However, fin-stabilized projectiles (which require aerodynamic
	drag for stabilization) will not be stabilized in vacuum. The
	accuracy of these projectiles would not greatly affected (the
	aerodynamic drag would make unstabile projectiles inaccurate, but
	in vacuum the projectile may fly side-on with no ill effects), but
	the penetration value would be reduced (unstabile projectiles may
	strike the target in oblique angles).

> (BTW, can someone explain to me what DS ammo is ?

	DS means Discarding Sabot, which means that the projectile consists
	of a sub-caliber penetrator which is surrounded by a light, full-
	caliber sabot.

	In modern DS rounds the sabot is 3-4 part plastic "bullet" which
	grips the nose of the penetrator. The penetrator is long fin-
	stabilized dart (hardened industrial nail with pressed fins).
	The penetrator is usually placed within the cartridge case, so that
	the finned tail stands on the primer base, the penetrator body is
	surrounded by the powder charge and the nose is held within the
	bullet-shaped sabot.

	When the saboted projectile exists from barrel, rifling-induced
	spin strips off the sabot, leaving the narrow metal penetrator
	flying alone towards the target.

	The discarding sabot round used by Steyr ACR (Advanced Combat Rifle)
	is called "5.56mm SCF" (Synthetic Cased Flechette).


        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:45:43 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: X-boats and couriers

Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> writes:
>On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen  wrote:
>> 
>>A jump-6 courier is expensive, but only compared to ordinary folks. A 
>>number of Imperial organisations and a number of private organisations 
>>(the 14 Megacorporations for a start) can afford to maintain a few 
>>couriers out of petty cash. Even mere sectorwide companies and the 
>>local rulers of high-population planets can afford them. And getting 
>>fast and accurate information from the center of the Imperium is 
>>sufficiently valuable that almost all of them would have such couriers 
>>on standby. Thus while even Megacorporations may be content with relying 
>>on the X-boat Network for regional communication, any monumental news 
>>from Capital would go out to all these organisations by jump-6. Thus the 
>>news of Strephon's death would be recieved at about the same time by the 
>>Spinward Marches heads of the Army, Navy, Marines, Scouts, and Civil 
>>Service, the regional managers of all 14 Megacorporations, the General 
>>Manager of Al Morai and I don't know how many other sector-wide companies, 
>>Duchess Delphine, the Dukes of Glisten and Rhylanor, and propably several 
>>other dukes, in addition to Norris.
>
>I would tend to disagree with this.  How many decisions a year will the
>Emperor make that will effect a Megacorporation a Sector or more away?

Not many, but that wouldn't be the news the corporations would be most 
anxious to get fresh anyway. That would be stock market information.
Consider the advantage someone with a 100 day head start on the stock
market would have and you'll begin to see why no corporation would allow
a competitor to get their news ahead of themselves. 

>Are you going to keep a staff pilot and ship standing by year round on the
>off chance something may happen?  

That's what some of what I call the "small" players would do. People like
Duchess Delphine and Duke Leonard and the other planetary rulers whose
military budget allow them a fleet worth upwards of 35 million MCr. Keeping 
one courier permanently on standby at Capital would require 4 couriers in 
all. I think you'd be able to pay for that out of 35 trillion credits,
don't you?

>...Also, what happens if *another* decision is made while the first pilot 
>is making the round trip to MC HQ?  

That would be a problem, of course, which is why megacorporations would
have a courier network  --  one or even two couriers per jump along the
route. That does run into money, and even Megacorporations would
propably not do more than link their regional headquarters to their
main offices, relying on the X-boats for cross-imperial messages, but
that they can afford. Oh, concievalby they may even club together and 
have only one network that carried all their traffic, although there
are problems of trust and control involved in a shared network. Certainly
all of them would have a few private couriers for those really secret
messages in addition to a shared network. 

>Or while the ship is going through maintenance?  

That's why I calculate with 4 couriers to keep one permanently on standby
on Capital.

>How many couriers do you keep in orbit?  

A stand-by courier wouldn't keep in orbit. It would be stationed on the
ground. A network courier would be in orbit.

>Then, of course, there are the ships themselves.  J6 ships (TL 15 by
>definition) can only be produced at a relatively few shipyards.  

Any single high-population world has the shipyard capacity to build 
enough couriers to serve the whole Imperium.

>They are expensive, and haven't a shot in hell of recouping the cost.  

People like rulers of worlds wouldn't care and a commercial courier network
would repay itself handsomely.

>For example, there is a regulation that stifles a minor part of your trade
>coming up for review, and by the way, Trade Minister Vlea's wife has
>always wanted to visit the third moon of...  Now, there is that lovely,
>hi-tech ship just sitting out there, and that lazy pilot earning his
>CrImp 6,000/month sitting in the lounge and this regulation will cost the
>Corp MC1 or more per year - what do you do?  

Well, if you are talking of _Imperial_ Trade Minister Vlea's wife, why
don't she use her husband's private yacht? This is one of the top 100
people of an empire of 15 trillion inhabitants you're talking about.
You can bet he has his own private yacht. And if that is tied up, you
bet again that he will be able to get the Navy or the Scouts to oblige.

>For example, you are the vice president in charge of the Core Sector and,
>in addition to all your other duties, you need to meet with some
>government officials on some backwater world 12 parsecs away.  Well, with
>the courier, that's only 2 weeks of travel time...

Why not take your private yacht? Tukera's Vice President in charge of Core
Sector would have a yacht. Not that he'd need to use it. The main office of 
any megacorporation will have a ship or two attached for just this sort of
occasion. You just haven't realized just how many resources a mere piddling
sector-wide company would have, much less a mega-corporation. They are
litterally astronomical.
  
>Finally, there is the matter of actually basing them at Sylea.  You can
>only stick so many ships in orbit before things start to happen, and Sylea
>will have a lot of traffic to begin with.  

Space is big, really big...

>Why station an expensive J6 courier at what has to be the most expensive 
>orbit in the Empire, when just J4 away you have reciprical basing rights 
>with Brand-X Corp?  

Why go a week's way out of communication range when you can station
yourself a few million kilometers away and be only a few seconds out
of communication? A star system is a big place.
 
OK, there _may_ be only one commercial courier network jointly financed by
a lot of corporations, but there _will_ be a way for the corporations to
get their news as fast as damn well possible, and the Megacorporations
will all of them have a number of private couriers for all those truly
secret and sensitive communications.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:51:42 +0100
From: "J." <jonathan@hccm.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns and........Mechwarrior

Well it's not really live yet, but my campaign is:

Location:          Stratford, UK
Age:               New
Meeting Frequency: Weekly
Group Size:        The gaming group has about 10 regular players, and about 6
                   others. Games are usually run with 4-5 players.
           
Referees:          1 Traveller Ref (Me), 4 other ref's							
Health:            Waiting to start, we're playing cthullu at the moment.
Rules Mix:         MT + House rules + those wonderful "101...." books from
BITS.
Setting:           Spinward Marches 1106

On an entirely different matter:

I picked up a copy of mechwarrior last weekend (the roleplaying game not the 
computer game). It has lots of similarities with traveller, has anybody tried
a cross over between Traveller and Mechwarrior?

Mechwarrior doesn't have rules for building starships etc and concentrates
on mechs and mech pilots, I was thinking of using the Mechwarrior background?
any comments?
anybody interested?

J.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:03:25 +0300
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

> I'd like to take an informal poll.

Location:          Tampere, Finland
Age:               5 years
Meeting Frequency: Every 1-2 weeks
Group Size:        6 (usually 4)
Referees:          1
Health:            Going strong.
Rules Mix:         CORPS, some TNE. Space combat using BL with
                   Corps/SLAG -like skill system.
Setting:           Solomani rim, 5724 AD. TNE background. Dark,
                   cruel and Machiavellian setting.
Notes:             Gearhead players (all BSc - MSc Engineering,
                   with gearhead GM (doctoral thesis underway).
Other:             Scenarios have inspired three published short-
                   stories.



        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:25:09 -0400
From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
Subject: Fuel requirements for MT starships

I use MT space combat and design because it is the only system I have.  I find that the fuel requirements for starships is a bit too demanding (especially jump fuel). BTW, most if not all starships in the Imperial Encyclopedia have insufficient fuel tankage for the listed jump capability, thus are invalid designs.  How do the other starship design systems work regarding fuel requirements?(is it less demanding than MT) I'm going to keep on using the MT rules, because I do not want to get into another system, and do not wish to invest into a whole new library of books and rules.

  

ciao,

Denis Allain
New-Brunswick, Canada
mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:23:28 -0400
From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
Subject: Re: Mercenary economics

> After you have calculated all salaries, costs, repatriation bonds etc.,
> don't forget that you need to place a risk premium on top. This risk 
> premium is basically what you pay for a mercenary corporation risking 
> their lives, equipment, etc. in the battlefield. 
> I suggest that the profit (ie markup after costs) should be equal to 100%
> of costs. This is for a standard, 'trained but green' mercenary unit of 
> equal TL to the enemy, and should be 
> the *minimum* - it means that they are just covering their costs, and have 
> a 50% chance of winning. 

OK. But how would one go about calculating the cost of the starship?
What would be the cost to *rent* it? 1%, 5%, 10% of the purchase
price?  My rough calculations show that hiring a merc unit, using a
Mercenary Cruiser, could easily cost MCr20 for 2 weeks of operation
(assuming 2 weeks spent in jump, to get to and from target site). It
can get pretty expensive!

BTW, thanks for all the responses.

ciao,

Denis Allain
New-Brunswick, Canada
mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:28:48 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Question

>For those of you with FF&S2...
>
>Is there a section, like chapter 12 in the TNE version of FF&S, that
>deals with cybernetic implants?

Don't know, still waiting.

>One of my players is showing interest in this area, and I'm thinking
>what the heck--this is a science fiction game.
>

The Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. rulebook has some pretty interesting ideas about
cybernetics.  It is, of course, "over the top", especially compared to
Traveller.  Take out anything that is "monomolecular" and attempt to
"realistically" accomodate the power requirements of the rest of the stuff
and you will end up with some pretty good travelleresque implant
possibilties.  Oh, and raise the cost by a large factor and only allow it
at TL 12 and up.

This is science fiction after all.  Certain enhancements, like added
strength or artificially accurate/telescopic eyeballs, are pretty easily
fit into the Traveller genre.  I would also expect to find people with
crystaliron plates replacing their breastbone and skull sections, "plug
- -ins" for computer interface, et al.   I would *not* expect laser eyeballs,
weapons concealed in metallic arms, or other hollywood type enhancements.
And lifting heavy objects is as much dependent on the person's whole
skeletal structure as it is on the strength on one arm, so no "Steve
Austin" manuvers either, where he lifts a big truck off someone.

I wouldn't want to get punched in the face by an enhanced arm though.

Pete



Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:33:33 -0400
From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
Subject: Re:  Sensors

> I'm doing some write-ups of different planets and hit upon a question.
> What type of sensors would a high populated, fairly rich planet have.
> Would they relay on passive sattelite sensors, or would they use active
> sensors? What would military ships protecting this world, I'm here
> thinking planetary defence boats, use?

First off, they would probably have some radio beacons 100 diameters
out, broadcasting approach instructions. Probably have some active
sensor satelites also beyond the 100 diameter to properly monitor
space trafic. Trafic control at the main SP would probably have an
eye open for suspicious activity.
  

ciao,

Denis Allain
New-Brunswick, Canada
mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1847
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 18 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1848



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1844
What does TL mean?
DS ammo in vacuum
FFS1 1st Print Errata?
Re: Sensors
re: Sensors
Re: X-boats & couriers
Re: FF&S2 Question
Re: More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you Series: Computer Architecture)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1845
Re: Sneaky radiation effects
Re: Live Campaigns?
Mir
Re: programs
Re: Communism in Traveller (Was Re: The politics of money )
Firearms in Vacuum
Re: Inspirational reading; Honor Harrington
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:45:19 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1844

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:30:15 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
>Subject: Re: Inspirational reading; Honor Harrington
>
>Has anyone read 'In Enemy Hands' yet?  I've only seen it in hardback, and
>at $22.00 it's a tough sell...

Yep, its excellent -- and I had to pay A$30 (around US$25 IIRC) because I had to
pay surface shipping from the US and wait two months. I *could* have paid A$40
(US$30) and got it locally within days.

Why don't you try Amazon.com (which is where I ordered mine), they were
discounted 10% then, maybe more now if its hit the bestseller lists (I
pre-ordered mine).

I rarely but hardcovers -- but have for the last two HH books and have not been
disappointed at all!

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:45:16 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: What does TL mean?

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:14:50 -0400, you wrote:

>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Point about what a TL means
>
>>Phillip McGregor writes:
>>Well, yes and no. The problem with the TL rating system is that it has always
>>been used to show what a society (the Imperium) *had* at that TL, *NOT* what 
>>it was capable of. Ergo, if its mentioned in "canon" that TL12 is related to
>> anti-viral tech, then they had anti-viral tech at TL12. That's the way its
>> always been.
>
>It isn't as clear-cut as that. There are some inventions that more or less

Yes, I know -- and this has always been one of my pet hates about Traveller. I
know that we repeated it in Space Opera -- and pretty much everybody since has
done the same (some actually doing it worse!), but I do think that there are
better ways of doing it.

The World Builder's Handbook by DGP was a good start, but too complex in many
ways. Personally, in the design I am intermittently working on, I assume that
there are going to be only three or four major Interstellar "Tech Levels" --
each based around one of the three or four major Intestellar States -- and that
the rest are sort of like being at a US Army Base in Turkey ... the US is TL9,
Turkey is TL7 (say), but the soldiers can get TL12 stuff at the PX, and the
locals can buy TL9 computers by importing them. If Jump/FTL Travel for cargo is
as cheap as it is in Traveller (and I intend to be at least as cheap in my
background), then it seems to me that proximity to a High TL world makes local
TLs somewhat problematic (I know that many people on this list object vehemently
to this interpretation, but its one that *I* like ... and I'm *not* saying
anyone should adopt it ... so stay calm!!!).

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:15:13 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: DS ammo in vacuum

It has now been established that CPR small arms will have no trouble in
vacuum.  One poster suggested that fin-stabilised ammo might tumble in
vacuum.

Would the spin induced by rifling prevent this?  Would the forces on the
dart have to be finely balanced if tumbling was to be prevented?  Wouldn't
the penetration of a dart be severely reduced if it was not pointed in the
right direction (damage to "soft" targets would be increased for the same
reasons).

Inquiring minds want to know.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:29:37 -0500
From: Phil Rhodes <Phillip_Rhodes@baylor.edu>
Subject: FFS1 1st Print Errata?

Could someone please direct me to the errata for the *first* printing
of FFS1?  I picked up a copy recently, and haven't been able to find 
the missing tables and data.  All of the errata lists say 'See Challenge
#75', which I don't have.

Thanks in advance!
- --
- -Phil     (Phillip_Rhodes@baylor.edu)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:52:02 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Sensors

>Assuming a high tech level (8+), there will be extensive active traffic
>control sensors deployed, probably mostly in orbit (on the ground in vacuum
>planets).  These would be typical technology level for the system.  At
>maybe a tech level higher, there will be military bases strategically
>placed around the system, and sensor pickets (SDBs) on patrol throughout
>the inhabited planets and occassionally patrolling outside the protected
>sphere.  These will be a mix of active and passive sensors.  Any well known
>base will always* use active, since there is no use trying to hide a known
>installation.  Also, major warships are often effective by their very
>presence, so unless there is a specific tactical reason, most warships will
>run "on active" whenon a routine patrol.  Purpose built sensor pickets will
>probably not use active sensors very often.
>
>*There are certain specific tactical occassions for shutting off active
>sensors temporarily.

As actives drop of at 1/(r^4) compared to passives 1/(r^2) there will be NO
long range active sensors in space. Also, the advantage to know the range
to target at each instance is not as important when weaponry generally move
at c or near c.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:55:45 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Sensors

>If you need to shut a power plant down quickly to hide from another ship
>would one need to make any kind of roll to do this quickly and
>succesfully?

>Also, how long would it take to restart a power plant again from idle?
>What if it needs to be done quickly?

Shutting down is almost instantaneous - less than one (30 minute) space
combat turn. I suppose one could argue that the waste-heat radiators (which
is where all the IR signature comes from) take a minute or two to cool down,
but not much more. 

Restarting (according to the TNE/Brilliant Lances rules) takes a full turn
before you can use the power plant; you can make an engineering rule (should
be Formidable in T4 terms) to start it up faster.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats & couriers

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Finally, there is the matter of actually basing them at Sylea.  You can
> > only stick so many ships in orbit before things start to happen, and Sylea
> > will have a lot of traffic to begin with.
> 
> On the other hand, sit down and figure out how much "parking space"
> there is at the 100 diameter limit. It's far quicker to have the
> couriers "parked" out there and "beam" the news to them via radio or
> laser rather than have them closer and then have to waste time getting
> to where they can jump.
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 

I would have reservations about keeping a ship on station for any extended
period of time.  You not only have crew endurance to consider, but there
is incoming traffic propagating at and around that point (yes, it's a
very small possibility, but the chance of collision still does exist), but
having that J6 ship sitting out there, all by itself, would be an
incredible temptation to competitive corporations (not to mention the bold
corsair).

Of course, there is no reason that the ship has to be in the orbit of the
mainworld, any orbit (including solar) would be sufficient - provided that
the resources represented by the ship and support staff justify the cost
(ref. the rest of my original post).

douglas

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:31:59 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Question

At 12:11 AM 9/18/97 +0000, you wrote:
>For those of you with FF&S2...
>
>Is there a section, like chapter 12 in the TNE version of FF&S, that
>deals with cybernetic implants?
>
>One of my players is showing interest in this area, and I'm thinking
>what the heck--this is a science fiction game.
>
>I've got the TNE version of FF&S, but I'm going to go out and buy the T4
>version if this is contained in it.

Unfortunantly, no.  You could easily use the FFS1 rules with a little
conversion, but since you are so retentive about sticking exactly to the
rules as handed down from the mountain, I know *that'll* never happen  :)
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:58:13 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff

At 03:41 AM 9/18/97 EDT, you wrote:
>
>>I have to say, for me, Famile Spofulum are one of the best things 
>>about the
>>TML. 
>
>I came in late on this one guys , who are the spofulum and what does TML
>mean ??

TML= Traveller Mailing List.

Famile Spofulum.  

Hmm.. 

About a year ago we set up a semi-game arounf the Imperial Ship Builders
Association (ISBA) to test out the various ship building methods for T4.
This led to the THUDDD competitions, where we all try to design the best
ship for a given mission statemnt.

Famile Spofulum is Rod Elliot's company, known for their motto of "nothing
is to small to have spinal meson gun!"

My corp, Gridlore Technologies (Serving the Imperium for (checks calender)
about six weeks now) and FS are bitter rivals, and tend to slag each other
regularly.

The ISBA maintains a web site, and we have our own mailing list which is
about half role play and half gear headism.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:49:51 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you Series: Computer Architecture)

At 11:25 PM 9/17/97 -0500, David Reed wrote:

>I've been thinking about jumping to the implications of s/w in Traveller:
>
>* How do you call the helpdesk when you're gunnery program GPFs?

Hope you survive the encounter then have a nice long talk with the company
rep.  Seriously, I imagine that you'd keep several copies of the program in
storage to take over if the main program fails.  Probably the three ship;s
comps would be running the same program simultaniously and pull any copy
that shows signs of failure.

>* How do you sue the manufacturer/publisher if you misjump into the 
>"choose-your-own" Rift?

If you make it home, you sue with great vigor  (M'Lord, it took us four
years, at a loss of about Cr.65,000 each month, so adding interest...)

>* Could you talk your AI into violating its own copy protection in an, um, 
>"emergency"?  (There's a short story, at least, in that somewhere.)

Depending on how smart the AI is.  Of course, the next time you are in a
system with a BananaSoft outlet, the AI is going to scream bloody murder
about how it was violated. (There's another story for the real hi-tech
end.. your ship's computer sues you for violating its contract!)

>* What do astrogators really do with all of their spare time?  Or on the 
>job for that matter?

They have a *really* good union.  Astrogators provide human oversight and
make sure that the computer has performed the task with maximum effciency.
Many smaller merchant ships don't use a dedicated Astrogator, having the
pilot double check the numbers while coasting towrds the 100-diameter limit.

>
>* Rather than dongle with copy.prot, haven't the s/w companies simply 
>raised prices to the legitimate customer?  And, of course, Microfirm 
>*could* persuade His Majesty to drop a legion or two of shock troops (aka 
>attorneys) to persue "hard drive loading" violators in some backwater... 
> I seem to remember there being some treatment of copyright/patent issues 
>in M:0 (got that new hardcover today, judgement witheld pending review).

Having played an assult lawyer in TNE (Eneri "Pudding" Stenbrau, Esq.), I
can only imagine that enforcing copyrights is one of the biggest challenges
for a 3I company.  Any interstellar firm will be keeping a sharp lokout for
violations.

>* How long does it take for a trade secrets or patent violation case to 
>get to trial?  How much does it cost?  How long are patents and copyrights 
>given before they expire legally into the public domain?

When Palladium sued WOTC over The Primal order a few moons back, the case
moved very quickly.

Patents last for seven years IIRC, copyrights last as long as you defend them.

>* Does a ship's computer have any games other than Solitaire and 
>Minesweeper?

Mine all come with NFL football sims, rigged so that the 49ers always win.

>** What are the Imperial subpeona laws like?  Do you still get the 
>statutory MCr1 per day for showing up?  How do you find a jury of "peers"? 
> (Sorry, US judicial jargon leaking through here...)

Serving on a interstellar scale.. there's a campaign for a small group!
For an Imperial violation like copyright violation (this would be a part of
Imperial Law IMHO, since rights protection is vital to trade) you'd
probably get roving teams of lawyers on retainer to procescute several
outstanding cases.  When they catch up to a defendant, they simply file on
that Imperial world.

Most rights infringement cases are heard (in the US) by a judge in a
non-jury trial.

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:39:30 -0500
From: Matt McLaughlin <mkm@umr.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1845

The original Laser Pistol in the JTAS article by (IIRC) Marc Miller was
a description of how to use common sense to expand the info made
available in the original LBB's of CT.  It went something like: take a
laser carbine, shorten barrel and stock with resultant decrease in range
and accuracy, and provide a smaller battery pack.  Reduce price and
maybe (?) increase TL.  There was no canonical implication that it
belonged to a certain time period.  I had always assumed the same for
gauss pistols.  That is, they are simply an extension of the equipment
lists as opposed to a new tech development of the 1100's.  I can't get
to the actual article right now, but I'm pretty sure my memory serves
well on this one.

Matt

> Another question in the same line of thought...
> When I first started playing there were no laser or gauss PISTOLs, and the laser
> rifles
> used BACK PACK power sources. The first pistol versions were brought out in the
> JTAS,
> and were, I've always assumed, recent developments in that time period. Now EA
> has the
> weapons using smaller belt power packs, with laser pistols at TL 11 and gauss
> pistols
> at TL 12. Which is the correct time period for their introduction? How about the
> size
> of the power pack? Is this an example of rewritten history?
> 
> Mike Peters
> Letterworks@Comten.com


>-----------------------------------------------------<
Matt McLaughlin    MS Candidate, Nuc Eng, U of MO-Rolla
mkm@umr.edu              http://www.umr.edu/~mkm
    One of these days I'll get a real .sig . . .
>-----------------------------------------------------<

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:52:33 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Sneaky radiation effects

>Hi there.
>
>I seem to remember reading somewhere that radars on aircraft can be
>dangerous if someone was to walk in front of them while they were turned
>on (microwaves, possibly?). Is this true? If it is, then what effect
>would the hugely more powerful radar/Active EMS that are mounted on
>starships have? Would the radiation be dangerous at a range that would
>be useful in space combat (though probably severely lessened by armour),
>or would it just be a handy way of getting rid of the unfriendly natives
>without obviously shooting them? Possibly with a focussed/beam of
>radiation then you could get rid of a particular individual or group
>without killing all those present.

The radar wont penetrate the metallic hull (thats why the are so easy to
detect those metalhulls on radar). You will NOT damage anything with radar
at spacecombat wavelengths and you cannot focus them as they're bound by
the same quantum mechanical laws that forces visible light lasers to
handwave grav focussing in order to keep their beams together, radars on
microwaves have SO much larger wavelength/focussing spot.
Guys crawling around on your hull or nearby however are a different topic.
You could fry them easily with your radars.

>How would a person react to getting such a high dose of microwaves etc.?
>Would they just fall down dead with no obvious cause at the time, or
>would they take seconds/minutes/hours/etc to keel over?
>
>Regards,
>--
>Rob

 They'd get leukemia at mild effect doses, at high doses they get blood
clotting from proteins in blood denaturizing etc, skinburns etc. Apparantly
some workers got slightly cooked while working at the focus on some NORAD
radars when some klutz accidentally turned one of them on. They got
leukemia in the long run but this I got from hearsay so it might be one of
those "rat in pizza" stories.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:04:20 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Matti Laakso <mlaakso@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Location:		Turku, Finland
Age:			8 years
Meeting Frequency:	every 2 weeks
Group Size:		4 (campaign has had total of 24 players over the
			years. Players change, the campaign stays.)
Referees:		1
Health:			recovered from nearly terminal illness 6 months
			ago with (mostly) new players.
Rules Mix:		GURPS, MT world generation, FFS1 tech, BL space
			combat.
Setting:		Neworld sector, 5656 AD. No-virus post-rebellion
			setting, a second Long Night falling.
Notes:			Campaign originally started in 5635 AD, jumped 15
			years ahead three years ago. Described as 30% MT,
			30% TNE, 20% Bruce Sterling and 20% Babylon 5


/RFXn					aka. Matti Laakso (mlaakso@utu.fi)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 97 18:08 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Mir

I thought the list might appreciate this...


Mir Research
KOROLYOV, RUSSIA--U.S. and Russian scientists are increasingly
excited about the Mir space station project, which promises to reveal
more than has ever been known about the scientific relationship
between weightlessness and mortal terror.
 
"By stranding our scientists on a dilapidated space station with
faulty wiring, loose hardware, and malfunctioning air systems," NASA
head Daniel Goldin said, "we have created extremely favourable
conditions for learning about spaceborne panic."
 
The two Russians and one American on board the station are
reportedly terrified beyond lucidity.
 
Among the ground breaking experiments conducted on board Mir: a
June 25 collision with a cargo craft that depressurized the Spektr
module; last week's emergency power shortage, caused by a disconnected
cable; and the periodic release of "dry ice" steam that simulates a
shipboard fire. All have been deemed a huge success by agency heads.
 
"They are in a constant state of what aerospace scientists term
'mind-shattering terror,' frightened for their very lives," Russian
mission director Vladimir Solovyov said. "And we have not even used
the hull-mounted Alien puppet that taps on the window yet."
 
"We have also taken huge leaps in our understanding of the
patterns created when one wets his pants in the weightlessness of
space," Solovyov said. "The urine spreads out in an expanding sphere,
something we did not expect."
 
Taking a break from his busy schedule, astronaut Michael Foale
told ABC News reporters: "Where is Mommy?"
 
"Please tell me the access code to the Soyuz capsule," Russian
cosmonaut Aleksandr Lazutkin said. "I would like to return to the
chaotic government and widespread hunger of my homeland."
 
Scientists expect to gain even more useful data during an
experiment at 3 a.m. tomorrow. As the astronauts sleep, whirling red
siren lights will flood the cabin while an ear-splitting klaxon alarm
jolts them awake. Detailed scientific data will then be collected on 
such
variables as open weeping, defecation and hair loss.
 
 

______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 1997 17:15:17 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: programs

lugh1@juno.com writes:
what I would ;like to see would be a program that allows for the creation
of geo maps 
{ like those in CT adventures } and generate world data quickly . also a
subsector map maker would be great . anyone seen any of these ?

Check out http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/software.html

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 1997 17:13:58 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Communism in Traveller (Was Re: The politics of money )

Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> writes:
1	Company/Corporation - This is a bit of a hard sell but remember 	that
many "communist" countries do have corporations.  This 		might represent
a planet controlled by a state owned company 		from a nearby communist
planet.

Actually, you could argue that a communist state is the equivalent of a
single large corporation.  Michael Flynn discussed this in _Country of the
Blind_.  Just assume that profits are reinvested in the company rather than
paid to shareholders, and there you have it.  (Now, this is an analogy.  But
remember that Engels was a factory owner, and that many of Taylor's theories
were implemented in the USSR, and look at large corporations such as Ford
before unions got strong...)


Remember that the government code is a description of the effect of the
government on daily life, not the theoretical structure.  Canada is, in
theory, a representative democracy, but there are months when I feel that I
am living in an impersonal bureaucracy, if not an oligarchy.  (Anyone living
in Ontario will know what I mean.)  I have heard America described the same
way.  Britain is a constitutional monarchy (which doesn't appear on teh
government table) in theory, but much the same as Canada in practice. 
(Unless it's changed in the last six years.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:41:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Firearms in Vacuum

Bruce Johnson in discussing the use of firearms in vacuum:

> considerable increase in range, since air resistance is gone.

I always wondered: How much will this be offset by the loss of the lift that
air provides? How much of a lifting body is your average bullet (bearing in
mind that almost anything can be a lifting body if you shove it through the
air fast enough)?

Loren Wiseman
     GDW Emeritus 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:42:03 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Inspirational reading; Honor Harrington

At 01:48 PM 9/17/97 -0700, Douglas wrote:
>Has anyone read 'In Enemy Hands' yet?  I've only seen it in hardback, and
>at $22.00 it's a tough sell...

I liked it, but then I buy Weber books immediately.  I did find it less
interesting than Field of Dishonor, but others have disagreed with me.

It did give me a few nice touches to throw at the players when we do our
next Naval campaign.  I expect that will be in a few years, as we are in
the middle of a multi-group episodic campaign set between Y0 and Y40.  We
have about a year left in this one, followed by a fantasy game for a year,
and then back to SF.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:30:53 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture)

At 11:25 PM 9/17/97 -0500, David Reed wrote:
>On Monday, September 15, 1997 07:54, John Atkinson wrote:
>> >And I expect most high grade "software" like that to actually be
>> >firmware.  Possibly embedded or on special ROM type plugin-cards...

>> In Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion books, all of the Legion's
>> computor-controlled equipment (and that's a lot of things, down to the
>> individual radios) had their 'software' permenantly engraved on
>> synthetic diamond disks they referred to as 'WORM-Write Once, Read
>> Many' memory.  Couldn't reprogram it, but is pretty secure from any
>> sort of tampering.

>If this is true, how do we then tweak our 'puters to do this or that 
>better-faster-longer than they're programmed to do?

In general, in my Traveller universe, you do not.  The core operating
features of all programs by TL 12 are set in stone.  What you can do is try
to talk the computer into executing the programs in a more efficient way,
or using a different scheduler, and so on.  The role of a high computer
skill by TL15 is more like a robo psychologist than a present day programmer.

In other words - you never ask the machine to do something new, but if you
know what question to ask in what order, you can get optimal cache filling,
and so on, which can make the things the machine is doing take far, far
less time.

My assumption is that Traveller is using Golden Age Technology (tm), in
which it takes hundreds of years to make a substantial change in any given
area.  As a result, they have more time to figure out the ramifications of
the tech they use.  It is very likely that most Traveller software has been
verified to be bug free statistically, if not mathematically.

In point of fact, this is an old Vilani rule (my canon) - software was
treated for them like drugs are for us.  If your software crashed, you were
legally responsible for all damage, even if you sold it in good faith.

>  (I *vaguely* remember 
>seeing several task for this in various Traveller systems... and, no, 
>rewritable environment variable matrices don't cut it, either - limited 
>variability that can't deal with entirely new params outside the program 
>spec.)

I rule that it is very, very hard to make a Traveller computer go outside
the specifications.  Someone had to design in whatever you want it to do.
Now, they may not have thought of applying the fire control algorithms to
doing a news search, but the capabilities for both are mature, and are both
in the system.  Unless someone has specifically marked them out for this
task, you can apply them.

>Has perpetual betaware been done away with?

Traveller is utopian to me, so yes.

>The ability to "re-write" at least your "non"-critical, but 
>very-important, systems' software would be too useful for folks who 
>operate beyond the fringe to give up.  "Let me get this straight.  I'm 
>usually at least two months out of regular contact, I can't access the 
>system code or fix a bug myself, but I get your 'gold-lifetime-onsite' 
>service package for only MCr1?  Who's your competitor down the street?"

You are using a present day model.  Think in terms of a people who take
centuries to advance in tech level.

"I am going to be out of contact for two months, starting 001-0020.  When
was your last update to "AutoGunnerZap-1?"

"Hmmm.  You might have a problem, sir.  Our last update was on 001-(0027),
when we added support for the official TL12 light laser array.   Since it
has only been 47 years since our last update, there is a reasonable chance
of a bug occurring in the laser software."

For this to work, there must be standardization up the wazoo.  This, to me,
is why the office of calender compliance has such power in M0 - they are
the standardizing body, and make sure that any laser array you purchase
complies with the pages and pages of specifications on what the laser array
will do when the software issues one of its documented 5000 possible commands.

>I've been thinking about jumping to the implications of s/w in Traveller:
>
>* How do you call the helpdesk when you're gunnery program GPFs?

If it GPFs, you aim the working laser arrays at their building.  They would
probably find that a kindness over facing the Imperial courts.

The consequences of failure are so high, and the number of sources so high,
that I cannot see them allowing the sale of a gunnery program that does not
meet some very stringent standards.  (I just interviewed with a medical
software company, and the hoops they jump through are impressive.)

>* How do you sue the manufacturer/publisher if you misjump into the 
>"choose-your-own" Rift?

You cannot, which is why I figure the jump software has been proven correct
mathematically.  Once they get into that mind set, I hope the rest of the
software industry follows.

>* Could you talk your AI into violating its own copy protection in an, um, 
>"emergency"?  (There's a short story, at least, in that somewhere.)

I expect that they have made the protection so secure that it is not
economically worth it in most cases.  This, I think will remain true -
copying software requires lots of work in the 3I, and so it is just not
worth paying your top flight computer guy to spend his time doing that.

>* What do astrogators really do with all of their spare time?  Or on the 
>job for that matter?

I rule that in jump and in normal space, minute variations of space
curvature caused by dust in normal space, and something unknown in jump
space cause fluctuations in the drive.  The astrogator, pilot, and engineer
are constantly working to keep the vessel from misjumping, or becoming
becalmed.

...

>* How long does it take for a trade secrets or patent violation case to 
>get to trial?  How much does it cost?  How long are patents and copyrights 
>given before they expire legally into the public domain?

I rule that the 3I has fast courts and generous patents, as long as the
product is available to meet demand.  I also rule that they look very
negatively on keeping the supply low.  Zhunastu excepted...

Imperial justice covers so few areas, and they are so important to the
Imperium, that they need fast resolution.  This is important in the early
days, when people were out of contact with the One True Power, Sylea, and
stayed true as tradition.  This is why they had those local Nobles.

>* Does a ship's computer have any games other than Solitaire and 
>Minesweeper?

Gazillions of them.  A primary job of the Scout service is to interface
their computers with the worlds they contact.  Those high caliber people
are not needed until they hit a new world, and the free time they have goes
into game programming and heavy consumption of Scout Brew.

>** What are the Imperial subpeona laws like?  Do you still get the 
>statutory MCr1 per day for showing up?  How do you find a jury of "peers"? 
> (Sorry, US judicial jargon leaking through here...)

I rule that they do not have a lot of power to compel in the general case,
but that when they need to use it for an Imperial crime, that they can do
almost anything.  Remember that the people sitting on the bench are almost
certainly Nobles, which I have rules as being the 3I equivalent of the
Forbes 500 list.  There are roughly 3000 ranked nobles above baronet in Y0,
and they all have world wrecking power.  As the Imperium ages, they sparse
out a bit, so that there are roughly 3000 per subsector, and it is rare for
anyone to be concerned with an area larger than that.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1848
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 18 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1849



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Some stray thoughts (Longer than I intended)
Re: X-boats and couriers
T4 subsector generator program
Re: More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff
Re: What does TL mean?
German WWII Ogre?
Re: Dark Conspiracy
Re: Live Campaigns and........Mechwarrior
Re: Hacking gunnery-1
Re: Chemical engines
Mir Research
Re: More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff
re: ISBA
TNS articles
Re: Chemical engines
[none]
Re: Aslan
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:39:33 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Some stray thoughts (Longer than I intended)

Mike wrote:

>Dom,I'm more than willing to concede the point that this particular item
>could be lost in the shuffle. I was trying to make the point, in general, that
>as more material is generated in the Prequel of the M:0 era that it is
>inevitable that something WILL be introduced that wasn't already covered by
>existing Canon, and that WILL have some impact on canon. This is
>especially true without a comprehensive guide for writers. It also won't matter one
>whit to players just entering the game with T4, since they will, most
>likely, not have access to the multitude of out-of-print material that, IMHO, most
>of the participants on this list appear to have.


I agree with your point. IG need a writer's guide. Even just the GDW stuff
scanned and accessable to authors would be a start, though I would like to
see some DGP stuff too.

I wonder if Marc is going to do that CD-ROM he was talking about...

Dom


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:49:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats and couriers

On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> Not many, but that wouldn't be the news the corporations would be most 
> anxious to get fresh anyway. That would be stock market information.
> Consider the advantage someone with a 100 day head start on the stock
> market would have and you'll begin to see why no corporation would allow
> a competitor to get their news ahead of themselves. 

Except that, with the information lags, I don't see a centralized stock
market.  Oh, there will be some specialized markets, but I see the bulk of
security trading at the subsector, possibly the sector level.

> 
> That's what some of what I call the "small" players would do. People like
> Duchess Delphine and Duke Leonard and the other planetary rulers whose
> military budget allow them a fleet worth upwards of 35 million MCr. Keeping 
> one courier permanently on standby at Capital would require 4 couriers in 
> all. I think you'd be able to pay for that out of 35 trillion credits,
> don't you?

And, as I said in my post, I do see the nobility (admittedly, I originally
was thinking at the domain level) keeping couriers, this is their arena.
But keep in mind, the government we are talking about is a mature one.
Important decisions are not made impulsively, or with short notice.  There
is extensive lobbying, and processes that ensure that all parties (at
least the important ones) are given the opportunity to address the issue.

And with the relative independance of the various domains (again, the time
lag in communications - the 5th FW was started, fought, and resolved
before word reached the Capital and came back) - Domain level politics
will be more of a concern to the involved parties than Imperial level
politics.

> That would be a problem, of course, which is why megacorporations would
> have a courier network  --  one or even two couriers per jump along the
> route. That does run into money, and even Megacorporations would
> propably not do more than link their regional headquarters to their
> main offices, relying on the X-boats for cross-imperial messages, but
> that they can afford. Oh, concievalby they may even club together and 
> have only one network that carried all their traffic, although there
> are problems of trust and control involved in a shared network. Certainly
> all of them would have a few private couriers for those really secret
> messages in addition to a shared network. 

I agree.  Which is why I think the first few links of the X-Boat network
(as it enters, or perhaps just outside the borders of the various MC
territories) are subject to intense scrutiny, but establishing links all
the way to Capital...

> Well, if you are talking of _Imperial_ Trade Minister Vlea's wife, why
> don't she use her husband's private yacht? This is one of the top 100
> people of an empire of 15 trillion inhabitants you're talking about.
> You can bet he has his own private yacht. And if that is tied up, you
> bet again that he will be able to get the Navy or the Scouts to oblige.

We are talking about the imperial government, not the House of Lords.  Not
every minor beaurocrat is going to have the resources to afford a yacht.
(tho' after a few years in a position of power and influence...)  Just as
PCs find themselves dealing with clerks who hold power over their 
fortunes, there will be minor beaurocrats, who by dint of their 
departments regulatory powers, may briefly be in a position where they
attract a fair amount of attention from the 'powers that be'.

> 
> >For example, you are the vice president in charge of the Core Sector and,
> >in addition to all your other duties, you need to meet with some
> >government officials on some backwater world 12 parsecs away.  Well, with
> >the courier, that's only 2 weeks of travel time...
> 
> Why not take your private yacht? Tukera's Vice President in charge of Core
> Sector would have a yacht. Not that he'd need to use it. The main office of 
> any megacorporation will have a ship or two attached for just this sort of
> occasion. You just haven't realized just how many resources a mere piddling
> sector-wide company would have, much less a mega-corporation. They are
> litterally astronomical.

Yachts are, I believe, a J-2 ship, so we are talking about 6 - 12 weeks of
travel (depending on whether or not you allow straight jumps in your
campaign, I generally limit it to 2 before applying DMs to the misjump
roll due to lack of maintenance) as opposed to 2-3 weeks in a J-6.

>   
> >Finally, there is the matter of actually basing them at Sylea.  You can
> >only stick so many ships in orbit before things start to happen, and Sylea
> >will have a lot of traffic to begin with.  
> 
> Space is big, really big...
> 
> >Why station an expensive J6 courier at what has to be the most expensive 
> >orbit in the Empire, when just J4 away you have reciprical basing rights 
> >with Brand-X Corp?  
> 
> Why go a week's way out of communication range when you can station
> yourself a few million kilometers away and be only a few seconds out
> of communication? A star system is a big place.

That has been pointed out to me and I yield the point. 

>  
> OK, there _may_ be only one commercial courier network jointly financed by
> a lot of corporations, but there _will_ be a way for the corporations to
> get their news as fast as damn well possible, and the Megacorporations
> will all of them have a number of private couriers for all those truly
> secret and sensitive communications.
> 

I agree in principle that _a_ courier system, independant of the ISS
X-Boat system may exist.  More to the point, I think that such systems
have probably been developed several times over the life of the Imperium,
in response to events that _did_ affect the MegaCorps.  I just feel, that
after a period of time, as the costs were reflected at the bottom line, and
demand for the resources being used, exceeded the percieved need, it would
be broken up. (note - I am not talking about strictly J6 couriers, just
information flow faster than the x-boat network would provide.)  I
definitely agree that the major noble of the Empire keep couriers on
Sylea, and that _some_ minor nobles may also keep starships at hand (not
necessarily J6 tho').  

Oh no!  That still fits canon!  :)

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:20:22 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: T4 subsector generator program

Hi!

I just finished a rough version of my subsector generator program, using the
tables provided in T4. The program runs on just about any PC with Windows
(and possibly without). If anyone's interested, I could post the program on
the list. The program is written in C, so if someone wants the source code,
mail me.

The program creates a text file containing the system data in explained
form, not the UWP's (as I am not fond of using them).
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm (Link=F6ping, Sweden)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:05:36 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff

At 03:41 AM 9/18/97 EDT, jim mckee wrote:
>>I have to say, for me, Famile Spofulum are one of the best things 
>>about the TML. 

>I came in late on this one guys , who are the spofulum and what does TML
>mean ??

TML - Traveller Mailing List

Spofulum - a fictitious company whose press releases are always a bright
spot in the list.  They specialize in the ridiculous - like the turbojet
powered ground car, the grav fusion toaster with auto targeting, the
nuclear handgun, and other excesses of technology.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:25:41 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: What does TL mean?

At 01:45 PM 9/18/97 GMT, Phil MacGregor wrote:

>If Jump/FTL Travel for cargo is
>as cheap as it is in Traveller (and I intend to be at least as cheap in my
>background), then it seems to me that proximity to a High TL world makes
>local TLs somewhat problematic (I know that many people on this list object
>vehemently to this interpretation, but its one that *I* like ... and I'm
>*not* saying anyone should adopt it ... so stay calm!!!).

The way I am playing it when I redesign the Universe is:

There have been a lot of races coming through with the ability to
terraform.  The Ancients used humans, and other races, as canaries - if the
critters survived, then the world was fit for Droyne.

Given the number of worlds in a typical system, there is almost certainly
going to be one that humans can survive on fairly easily.  (0.5-2G,
potentially tainted but survivable atmosphere, water.)  I figure that
probably 1/3 of all systems can support a TL0 culture as well as Earth can,
about 1/3 can do it with some difficulty, and a third have no decent worlds
by our standards, but by TL12 standards, they are just fine.  For us to
colonize Mars as a 1 billion+ pop world, for example, would be infeasible,
but for the 3I to do it, it is not that different than colonizing an
earthlike world.

Given a lot of planets which could be used, proximity to the high tech
worlds becomes more important.  Once you have local manufacture of TL9
goods, you can build J1 starships, so being J1 from a high tech world is
very, very important in the early days.

Tech levels quickly stabilize.  It takes centuries to advance in tech level
without help, while it takes a quarter the time with indifferent
assistance, and a tenth the time with active help.  This means that as soon
as a world has the economic power and the will, they will be very close to
their neighbors' TL.

TL should be a tremendous draw - a factor of 4 in functionality of entire
systems over a tech level seems reasonable.  (Every system might not work
better, but a TL12 battle cruiser should be able to stomp 50 times as many
TL9 ships reasonably before destruction.)  Some tech level changes are so
major as to completely invalidate earlier tech.  TL9 grav, fusion, and
jump.  TL 12 fusion+ and meson guns.  TL16 antimatter, AIs, disintegrators
and matter transport.  TL19 pocket universes, gravitic weapons, white
globes, and individual high power psionic connections.

Being able to build those on worlds within a jump one is going to be
important, and a world will eventually tire of the shipping cost.  (When it
breaks the bank to bring in a modern weapon, the extra shipping cost is
trivial.  This is not the case when it becomes a margin game.)

As a result, a one tech level step implies a huge trade potential, to the
extent that the low tech world is willing to allow it.  Smart low tech
worlds only trade renewable resources, and accept a slower advance, knowing
that they can advance four tech levels in the time it takes the nearby
worlds to go even one.

Further, high pop worlds are such incredible resources that they run the
universe.  I play it that 2.5% of all worlds are pop A, 5% pop 9, and the
rest are either nearly empty, or have an average population of 10-100
million.  I know the list disagrees with this, but I am playing that an
economy needs millions of people to maintain TL8, hundreds of millions for
TL12, and billions for TL15.  (Not on the same world, just the same free
trade zone.)  This way, they can maintain TL8 or less without a problem,
and can maintain TL9-12 given even one high pop world nearby, or a number
of smaller ones.

Given the benefits of high population and low density, I expect that many
systems are looking to expand into their own system.  Jump drives are
cheap, but normal space is cheaper.  It is economically feasible to ship
raw ores across normal space, which I would be surprised if it was a good
idea to do that with jump ships.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:43:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: German WWII Ogre?

In a message dated 97-09-18 02:56:52 EDT, you write:

<< Forget bridges!!!   What about the ground itself?  The Germans by 1944 had
 designed a 1000mt tank powered by 4 U-boat diesels with a "projected" main
 armament of one 800mm. cannon and 2 450mm "secondary cannons.  Talk about
the
 heights of absurdity.  Can we design it, however, with CSC?  That remains to
 be seen.   >>
Sounds like an Ogre Cybertank to me...
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:15:54 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy

I have one its in pretty bad shape thouh [ all the paes are there it just
looks worn ]
what do you think is fair ??


chip
kissimmee fl

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:57:02 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns and........Mechwarrior

J. wrote:

> Mechwarrior doesn't have rules for building starships etc and concentrates
> on mechs and mech pilots, I was thinking of using the Mechwarrior background?
> any comments?

T2300 had a mech type vehicle in the Equipment Guide.  That's about as
close to Traveller has I have seen it get.

But, I have often thought of having a certain planet, or pocket empire,
section of space, client state, or whatever with an emphasis on mechs.

I've just never done it.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:01:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dartek@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hacking gunnery-1

In a message dated 97-09-18 03:01:51 EDT, you write:

<< Leroy mentioned his own brilliant ability to 
 "get su" on boxes he doesn't have an account on 
 (whatever that means, I "got su" when I bought a copy
 of Linux, but anyways) but I think some people on this
 list have the mistaken idea that the pc-like computer
 is what the whole computer industry is all about.<<
He's talking about hacking the OS to get superuser permissions.
 
 >>There are many better modern day analogies to what
 Traveller "computer software" will probably look like,
 without having to resort to arbitrary, wierd, handwaving
 architectures.
 
 Some examples are:<<
I like handwaving.  Keeps my face cool.
 
 >> - a TV. Yep. Apparently in a TV manufactured today,
    there's about 500K of code. su that.
  - SAP R/3. 
 - The software in a phone switch.<<
Well, you can always hack the software controlling the switches actions...who
cares about the cheesball microcode built into the switch?
  >>- Flight control software in a modern jet fighter.<<
Actually this is not firmware in the true sense of the word AFAIK.  I'l ask
my F-18 mechanic friends about this.

>>  - The software sitting in every '98 Ford, GM, Chrystler, BMW, et al.<<
 >>You don't "copy" any of these pieces of code. You steal
 them. It's not "hacking" - it's industrial espionage and
 if your players want to do it, it's a job and a half in
 itself.<<
Generally agreed.
 
>> Besides, for most companies, software is either embedded
 so deeply that it's invisible to the user (ie. a TV) or
 it's sold as a loss leader. I'm not privvy to Sun's
 accounting books, but I bet they don't make a cent on 
 Solaris. The bulk of the software sold by Sun serves to
 promote their hardware business. The same with IBM.<<
Agreed.  But I doubt Sun and IBM don't make anything on their OS- even if
it's from liscensing.
 
 >>Chances are that Gunnery-1 will come embedded in the
 whole turret control mechanism and that you'll be about
 as interested in copying, craking, reverse-engineering
 or changing it as you would be in doing the same thing 
 to the software in your pacemaker.<<
Eh?  Be a pain to update it don't you think?  the military would not go for
that.  And at least in weapon systems I think the military would be setting
the standards.  People hack exercise machine systems, how useful is that?
 Just becasue it serves no purpose does not mean people will not do it.
 
 >>Once upon a time, people changed the tubes in their
 radio receivers as a hobby kinda thing. One day, software
 will disappear the same way that tubes did.<<

Or it will be replaced with people changing the firmware in their
machines....same story, new technology.
NeK SrEteP!!  Fnord!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:57:58 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> 
> Ever hear the *real* story behind the "engine that runs on water"
> stories? 

No!!! (standing here tapping my foot impatiently)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:51:25 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Mir Research

Andrew Boulton posted a longish (couple o screens length) post about the Mir
and its studies in terror in space.

I burst out laughing at work. I have reposted this to my own joke mailing
lists (we live for this sort of thing)

Thanks

(I didn't quote it because a) it is longish b) you have already read it and
c) I get the digest, so when I quote I cut and paste, rather than "reply"
(this is my explanation to the AR's))

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:55:30 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: More geeking about Economics - some Trav stuff

TML = Traveller mailing List...what you're reading now.

Famille Spofulam = Roderick Darroch Elliots utterly insane twisted bunch
of fictional engineers who make things like 6 gee pogo sticks that can
reach orbit, 4 barrel gauss rifles that will take out someone's right eye
at 3 km, grav bikes whose owners have a mean 6 month lifespan after
getting one...things like that. There was a burst of creativity back
....ohh...about a year ago, and a whole bunch of people came up with
distinctive corporations, FS is one of the best.

At least it's the weirdest.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 lugh1@juno.com wrote:

> 
> >I have to say, for me, Famile Spofulum are one of the best things 
> >about the
> >TML. 
> 
> I came in late on this one guys , who are the spofulum and what does TML
> mean ??
> 
> thank you in advance
> 
> 
> 
> jim mckee
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:16:42 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: ISBA

>The ISBA maintains a web site, and we have our own mailing list which is
>about half role play and half gear headism.

What's the URL and address for the mailing list? BAMtech Sensors, Inc., 
would probably be interested in participating...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:43:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: TNS articles

       Speaking of the JTAS TNS articles, I have reuploaded them to my
website by request, since the IG website doesn't contain the souces. Along
with uploading the old ones from JTAS, they have been expanded to include
about half the Challenge ones.
       Also included are a couple of the CIN news articles. As I have time
more will get posted. And maybe one of these days I get it together and add
it to the webring.
       In relation to a couple of the sources, JTAS 25 and JTAS 26. At least
in the first two Challenges (I can't remember if it continued for any more
offhand), the traveller material was in an "internal" magazine still called
JTAS.
       And if theirs any problems with the page please tell me (as I have no
way to test the site, except through visitors).
       If anybody has any TNS's/CIN's typed in and wants to save me some
time? Proofreading is a little less time consuming than typing. And if
anybody can proofread them for me (hopefully I haven't added to many extra
typoes to what was already there).


Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:21:44 -0400
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

>> You forgot to mention all the evil oil companies with their hidden safes
>> full of all the water carburetor plans they've bought up to keep them 
>> off the market :)
>
>Ever hear the *real* story behind the "engine that runs on water"
>stories? 

Tell us a story, Unca Leonard!

**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:41:02 -0400
From: "Paul D. Owensby" <pauld@athens.net>
Subject: [none]

>That sort of leaves the women with a choice between wearing an
>indwelling cath while "on call" or putting up with the mess from the
>"funnel" type gizmos (complete with adhesive edges, and a great way to
>get infections).

I could see the indwelling ones, though that carries its own infection risk
that the men wouldn't have to deal with. 

Had a thought: What about some kind of vacuum device like what they 
use on the Shuttle? I saw a program where one of the astronauts was 
demonstrating the bathroom and showed the various "attachments" they
use, each astronaut with their own individual one that they attach to the
end of a vacuum hose basically. I can't imagine switching on the vacuum
every now and then would create any more noise than a powered suit 
itself would, and if the funnel is tailored to the individual, it wouldn't 
need adhesives, the vacuum would prevent leaks.

In addition, the machinery would give the women an even larger cod-
piece than the men, which would give some opponents food for thought....


**********************************************************
Paul Darius Owensby (pauld@athens.net)                   
ValuJump Lines:"So Economical, You'll Think You're Part of the Crew" (tm)
Pan-Imperia: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Paul_Owensby/
Home of ValuJump Lines, Pan-Imperia Shipyards, and Beginnings for DOS.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:11:33 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Aslan

>Well, given the fact that even genetically determined roles sometimes
>get "mixed", I'd suspect that the Aslan would have some provision for
>the (rare) male or female with the wrong "program". Most likely the
>male computer programmer would have been "ritually" made a female, and
>vice versa for the female warrior.

Indeed that does sound some what plausible . I like it ! my problem was
with the idea of tribes of female warrior and male techs . this in my
oppinion is not the aslan .

>Societies *have* to have escape valves for those who "don't fit". The
>Aslan society seems far too stable to not have such safety valves.

true enough , nd good point .

>Such "exceptions" would be rare, and unlikely to be player characters.
>But they'd be great for a one time encounter to rattle your players a
>bit.

I agree they exception should be extreamly rare and it would make for a
good encounter to rattle you players who think they know all there i to
know about the noble aslan .
 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
Jim Mckee

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:47:01 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture)

David Reed wrote:
> 
> On Monday, September 15, 1997 07:54, John Atkinson wrote:
> > >And I expect most high grade "software" like that to actually be
> > firmware.
> > > Possibly embedded or on special ROM type plugin-cards.  With software
> > being
> >
> > In Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion books, all of the Legion's
> > computor-controlled equipment (and that's a lot of things, down to the
> > individual radios) had their 'software' permenantly engraved on
> > synthetic diamond disks they referred to as 'WORM-Write Once, Read
> > Many' memory.  Couldn't reprogram it, but is pretty secure from any
> > sort of tampering.  I'd think a lot of things on a starship (say, like
> > the reactor control program or the autopilot) that don't need
> > reprogrammed would be on this basis to prevent tampering.
> 
> If this is true, how do we then tweak our 'puters to do this or that
> better-faster-longer than they're programmed to do?  (I *vaguely* remember
> seeing several task for this in various Traveller systems... and, no,
> rewritable environment variable matrices don't cut it, either - limited
> variability that can't deal with entirely new params outside the program
> spec.)
> 
> Has perpetual betaware been done away with?
> 
> The ability to "re-write" at least your "non"-critical, but
> very-important, systems' software would be too useful for folks who
> operate beyond the fringe to give up.  "Let me get this straight.  I'm
> usually at least two months out of regular contact, I can't access the
> system code or fix a bug myself, but I get your 'gold-lifetime-onsite'
> service package for only MCr1?  Who's your competitor down the street?"

My take on this is that Computer Software Engineering in the Far Future
is finally advanced to the point where software design is quite robust.
Things that require heavy computation have been maximally optimized.

Modifications to programs can occur in a semi-volitile subprocess. The
main "system" code cannot be overwritten or modified, but a clone can be
spawned within the system. A virtual computer within a computer.

> I've been thinking about jumping to the implications of s/w in Traveller:
> 
> * How do you call the helpdesk when you're gunnery program GPFs?

It has been said that if Civil Engineering was at the same state of
advancement as Software Engineering, a bridge would collapse every 4
minutes. (or was it seconds?)

In the far future Software Engineering has advanced to the point where
GPFs are a footnote in history. Completely protected memory and process
threads, multiple redundancy and cross-checking to ensure results are
accurate, and other advanced features ensure that output is "correct"
and the computer is "stable".

I'm not saying that problems won't occur, any more than I could assert
that bridges never collapse, I'm just saying that *if* the computer
wonks out, you wouldn't call a helpdesk, you'd call a "clean-up" crew,
or physically replace this or that.

> * How do you sue the manufacturer/publisher if you misjump into the
> "choose-your-own" Rift?

I dunno if you can.

> * Could you talk your AI into violating its own copy protection in an, um,
> "emergency"?  (There's a short story, at least, in that somewhere.)

Short answer: No with an "if". Long answer: Yes with a "but". (heard
that on TV yesterday.)

> * What do astrogators really do with all of their spare time?  Or on the
> job for that matter?

Astrogators have a lot to do and worry about. They have to calculate
trajectories, keep themselves appraised of current sensor readings,
anticipate and create different contingency plans, monitor and record
various information about the ship's current position and vector, blah
blah yadda yadda.

> * Rather than dongle with copy.prot, haven't the s/w companies simply
> raised prices to the legitimate customer?  And, of course, Microfirm
> *could* persuade His Majesty to drop a legion or two of shock troops (aka
> attorneys) to persue "hard drive loading" violators in some backwater...
>  I seem to remember there being some treatment of copyright/patent issues
> in M:0 (got that new hardcover today, judgement witheld pending review).

I agree with those who have said that copy protection has advanced to
the point where those who try to break it will waste more resources than
it's worth.

> * How long does it take for a trade secrets or patent violation case to
> get to trial?  How much does it cost?  How long are patents and copyrights
> given before they expire legally into the public domain?

According to Vilani Law, patents and copyrights never expire. They are
held by the Megacorporation in perpetuity. Only the appropriate
professions are even allowed to license them.
 
> * Does a ship's computer have any games other than Solitaire and
> Minesweeper?

Ya, there's Kino, Poker and Video Slots, too.

> ** What are the Imperial subpeona laws like?  Do you still get the
> statutory MCr1 per day for showing up?  How do you find a jury of "peers"?
>  (Sorry, US judicial jargon leaking through here...)

I can't remember that the Imperial Judicial system has been discussed.
It seems to me that the Judicial system would rest heavily on the power
of the Nobility, and that it would be a very small and specific system.

Most Laws are local and depend on the local World's judicial system, the
Imperium only bothers to get involved in the big, interstellar stuff:
Murder in space (not on a world), interstellar trade, perhaps financial
tampering of ImpCr, that sort of thing.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1849
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 18 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1850



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Live Campaigns?
re: Sensors (somewhat long)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1846
Re: Aslan
Re: Firearms in Vacuum
Re: What does TL mean?
Re: Live Campaigns and........Mechwarrior
Re: FF&S2 Drop tanks
Re: FF&S2 Question
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Re: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere
Re: What does TL mean?
Re: Chemical engines
Why the PoD was so devistating!!! ;->
Who is Famille Spofulam?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 14:35:23 +0000
From: "Garth Dighton" <gdighton@elite.net>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

On 17 Sep 97 at 9:33, Jory M Earl wrote:

> Errata          :  Supposedly 12,000 years in Earth's future.  Rule of
> Man modified; Became a degenerate empire ruled with an iron fist from
> it's central point, Earth.   (converted to a Ringworld)  The colonies
> had revolted, and Imperial Fleets fought a war of anhiliation against
> all the colony worlds.  Some few colonists escaped in ships to found the
> 3rd Imperium in the traveller setting.  This game starts in 1108 of that
> Imperium.  The Sword Worlds leader Lucas Trask has fought the Imperial
> Navy in Lanth after ceding the Sword Worlds subsector, and has suffered
> a small setback as Imperial Forces, well entrenched on Lanth and in that
> subsector, defeat his initial force.  Meanwhile Earth has been all but
> forgotten.  The old Imperial forces of earth failed to find these
> splinter colonies that fled it, for some reason.

Lucas Trask: From _Space Vikings_ by H. Beam Piper, correct?
Garth Dighton
gdighton@elite.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:15:30 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Sensors (somewhat long)

Some more thoughts about sensors in a typical high-tech high-pop world
(and an example using the Definitive Sensor Rules); sensor sizes are taken
from FFS2, sensor calculations use the DSR.

The sensor installation at a moderate-TL world would have both active and
passive components. The main military early warning sensor would be a
passive sensor, probably in far (400,000 km) orbit around the main world.
For a moderate-population TL-12 world, it might be a PEMS-15 or so; 
this has a surface area of 10000 m2 and costs MCr 50,000 (expensive, but
not ludicrous for the main planetary line of defence.) 
It's capable of tracking a typical target (a 100-ton ship with no 
particular ECM) out to ranges of 500,000,000 km or so. 

This would be supplemented by active arrays - and the main civilian
traffic control system would probably actually be an active sensor. This
is because although active sensors have shorter ranges, for traffic control
they can be combined with transponders - transmitters on every ship that
respond to the active sensor pulse - which gives much greater range and 
provides detailed information (registry, velocity, range, etc.) for 
cooperative targets. The traffic control sensor might be a AEMS-13 or so,
with a surface area of 2500 m2, requiring 2500 MW of power, and a cost
of MCr 5,000 (plus support hardware.) It'd probably be located on the planet.
It could see targets directly out to around 5,000,000 km, but could see
transponder returns all through the system. (Modern tracking networks
can see the dinky little transponders on Pioneer or Voyager all the way to
the edge of the solar system...)
There *might* be a military AMES-13.5 as well (MCr 50,000) but there
might not. 

There would be lesser sensor arrays scattered throughout the system. 
Invidual high-traffic asteroids or secondary worlds would have their own
traffic control AEMS. Military installations would have secondary
PEMS arrays - PEMS-14.5 or 14. There might be a second big PEMS-15 
somewhere out at the edge of the system for tracking possible targets in
the Oort cloud. Big warships woul dhave a PEMS-14.5 and AEMS-13;
SDB's would have about a PEMS-14.


Some relevant examples: a scout/courier has IR and radar signatures of 0.
So, if it were out around 100 diameters (range of 11.5) the big military
sensor array would see a signal of 15 + 0 - 11.5 = 3.5, automatic
detection. It's hard to hide from big sensors. If it were out somewhere
in the asteroid belt (range of 14), the big military array would see a
signal of 15 + 0 - 14 = 1, an Average task every hour for the military
array to detect the ship.

If the scout had advanced IR masking (IR signature -1) and had its power
plant shut down (an additional -1 to signature), at 100 diameters it
would be a signal of 15 - 1 - 1 - 11.5 = 1.5 - there'd be at least a
slight chance of being missed, particularly if the military sensor operators
weren't very good. If you're using the advanced version of my Definitive
Sensor Rules, you could try tricks like coming in from the direction of the
sun (-0.5) and agressive baffling (turning all the radiators away from the
hostile sensor) (-1.0) for a total signal of 15 - 1 -1 -1 -0.5 - 11.5 = 0;
an Impossible task for the military sensor operators. The disadvantage is
that your overheated radiators are easily visible to any other ships passing
nearby. The traffic control sensor would still see the
ship, too (13 + 0 - 0.5 - 11.5 = 1.0) unless the ship had a couple of levels
of radar stealthing.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:23:32 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1846

>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:40:30 -0800
>From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
>Subject: Re: Aslan

>>There's a difference between the referee being tipped to the occurance of
>>clans where females control the clan politics (because a certain patriarch
>>is a ninny and his wives happen to lack a natural feminine interest in
>>finance and machinery, for example), and having an such female-dominated
>>clans be overtly institutionalized in society, which is what it sounded
>>like Marc was proposing.

>The impression I got was that female-dominated clans were
>institutionalized, but they were oriented more toward things like running
>trade, training academies, or social services than butting heads and trying
>to amass territory.

I don't think the objections are based in any way on what
the clans are involved in.  It's based on the point that
either you have a male dominated society with very strong
gender roles or you have a society that is more like the
standard human society where the society is simply "mostly"
male controlled.  If you have clans that are dominated by
females and this is accepted to the point were a nomenclature
has developed to classify them, then you really aren't that
different than most human societies.

>The non-traditional clans don't have to be
>female-dominated, they just have to be, well, non-traditional. That's what
>I was trying to come up with;

I have no problem with variation.  Just with contradicting the
fundamental premise of the society.  If you have a clan that
is so heavily involved in things that are female roles, then
the males may not be able to understand the important issues and
be relagated to choosing which females suggestions to rubber stamp
and anything but general policy issues.  This is similar to
a GURPS Traveller I ran where jumping involved setting up
the jump drive (using Engineering) and then just sitting back
and letting it work.  However, since piloting the ship was a
male task, they had a big red button that said "jump" and
which they pushed when it lit up.  The male basically pushes
the button to confirm what has been done.

>>The "female-dominant clan" [hmm, a kink-positive new supplement for White
>>Wolf Games, perhaps?] is maybe the Aslan "corporation", which IIRC can be
>>semi-independent of their clans-of-CEO-origin, or in some cases truly
>>clan-independent.

>Yeah, good idea (corporations or independent clans, that is, not the WW
>supplement).

Corps could work either way.  If they are subordinate to clans,
it might be seen that this alone is sufficient male leader ship
allowing a female CEO to "manage" it.  OTOH, it might be seen
as necessary to to have a male to "lead" the corp.  (Esp. if
the corps was come sort of interclan cooperation or whatever).

_______________________________________________________________
DSummers@Mail.ARC.NASA.gov

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:29:03 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Aslan

Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:45:56 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Well, given the fact that even genetically determined roles sometimes
>get "mixed", I'd suspect that the Aslan would have some provision for
>the (rare) male or female with the wrong "program".

Sure they would.  They are called "mental hospitals".


______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:35:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> Bruce Johnson in discussing the use of firearms in vacuum:
> 
> > considerable increase in range, since air resistance is gone.
> 
> I always wondered: How much will this be offset by the loss of the lift that
> air provides? How much of a lifting body is your average bullet (bearing in
> mind that almost anything can be a lifting body if you shove it through the
> air fast enough)?
> 

Well, no, a bullet is not a lifting body, and in a gravity field follows
a ballistic path, ie: if you fire a rifle with zero elevation, the bullet
rises above the point of firing.

Lifting bodies are large blunt airfoils, which work as all airfoils do, by
offering a different path to air travelling over the surfaces generating
pressure differences via the bernoulli effect. A bullet
offers a symmetrical surface to oncoming air, and so never generates lift.
More to the point it is spinning at a hig rate of speed, so the flow of
air along its surface follows a _curved_ path which offsets pressure
differences that do arise. This is one reason a spun
projectile is stable in air, particularly for slowly spinning low velocity
projectiles, such as footballs for instance. (American footballs, that it,
pointy things made of pig ;)

In a vaccuum you get longer range because you don't have air resistance,
but you still get a ballistic path.

Of course this is all from my old physics, so I may have some details
wrong. (Except for the bullet rtrajectory part...that I _do_ know, having
fired black powder rifles, which have a far more pronounced trajectory due
to their lower muzzle velocity and greater weight)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:32:32 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: What does TL mean?

Phillip McGregor wrote:

>The World Builder's Handbook by DGP was a good start, but too complex in many
>ways. Personally, in the design I am intermittently working on, I assume that
>there are going to be only three or four major Interstellar "Tech Levels" --
>each based around one of the three or four major Intestellar States -- and
>that
>the rest are sort of like being at a US Army Base in Turkey ... the US is TL9,
>Turkey is TL7 (say), but the soldiers can get TL12 stuff at the PX, and the
>locals can buy TL9 computers by importing them. If Jump/FTL Travel for
>cargo is
>as cheap as it is in Traveller (and I intend to be at least as cheap in my
>background), then it seems to me that proximity to a High TL world makes local
>TLs somewhat problematic (I know that many people on this list object
>vehemently
>to this interpretation, but its one that *I* like ... and I'm *not* saying
>anyone should adopt it ... so stay calm!!!).

I've seen you get flamed on this in years past, Phil, so I'm not going to
light my blowtorch! <g>

I referee one TNE campaign and play in another. My referee agrees with you
to a point. We recently had an adventure that began at the naval base at
Usani/Deneb. The world is TL 12, but because there is such a thing as
interstellar freight, he ruled that most, if not all, naval bases in the
Regency are TL 14-15. He set Usani's at 15.

As for the World Builder's Handbook extrapolation of TLs, I think it's
great. The novelty TL is the wildcard that any referee can use to supplant
the local TL with whatever the highest *nearby* TL is.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml



- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:39:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns and........Mechwarrior

On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> J. wrote:
> 
> > Mechwarrior doesn't have rules for building starships etc and concentrates
> > on mechs and mech pilots, I was thinking of using the Mechwarrior background?
> > any comments?
> 

OH BOY!!!  A Mecha thread!!

Do we get to argue the various merits and disadvantages of Mecha vs.
conventional armor again??

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:58:56 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Drop tanks

Moin Derek Wildstar,

> Thanks, Douglas; I stand corrected (serves me right for relying on my
> memory).  The TAS article definitely states that drop tanks are made
> possible by "recent" advances in capacitor technology.  It further states
> that "local" yards (TL-D) are not capable of constructing the new
> capacitors, but are capable of building drop tanks.

	IMHO not drop tanks in FFS or high guard are non canon, but
	the TAS article is. The normal FFS drop tank is nothing more
	than a tank, you can drop in NORMAL space. So you can fill it
	jump (using the internal tank) refill the internal tank, drop
	the drop tank and charge with higher accelleration and full tank.

	Thats of how the Garzelle works. The TAS drop tank is imposible.
	The experiment to do it would lead to 2d20 major jump and power
	plant hits (like black globe overcharge) Have you tried to
	calculate how much energy is burning 20% of the ship into helium ?
	Everybody knows that the jump drive is about 30% HPG, but this
	is not enough to store everything at once.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:37:00 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Question

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> Unfortunantly, no.  You could easily use the FFS1 rules with a little
> conversion, but since you are so retentive about sticking exactly to the
> rules as handed down from the mountain, I know *that'll* never happen  :)

What!?  Surely you jest.  Or, you have a wrong impression of me.

I do like my core rules to be the official rules, but I change them all
the time.  I tweak here, and I tweak there.

Right now, my rules set consists of T4 basic rules, modified by the
KBv2.0 task system.

I use all of the chargen systems from all the versions except TNE.  I
use all of the skills and equipment from every version.

I'm shopping hit location systems right now, and I'm looking at a MT hit
location system I found in a Traveller's Digest, Glenn Grant's system,
and a 2 D6 version of the hit location system in TNE.

I just incorporated tactical combat into the game, and I'm using CT's
Snapshot rules for that.

I haven't picked a starship combat system yet, but I am looking
seriously at the RPSCS system designed by all the good folks on the TML,
Brilliant Lances, and even Mayday.

When I need a particular rule for something, I look it up in all of the
editions.  CT, T4, and MT take presedence, but I'll convert rules from
TNE if I have to (which is going to be the case for my
cybernetics--since the T4 edition of FF&S does not include them).

I also use ideas, sparingly, from T2300.

On top of all of this, my adventures are definitely not all Traveller. 
I'll convert from Gamma World, Space Master, Space Opera, T2300, Star
Fronties, etc., and I do this more than occasionally.

I usually use the official Traveller adventures as the backbone, and
fill in the details with one of these other adventure modules.

For example, just recently, my players reached Pysadi in the Aramis
subsector of the Spinward Marches.  We are playing the Traveller
Adventure.

But, here's my twist.  When the characters got there, they found that
the deep space autodrone, far away from Pysadi deep system, was under
attack from some unknown alien species.

The autodrone is Pysadi's key to improving their standing within the
subsector.  They are only TL4, and there was a big stink some years ago
when an Imperial politician/noble got caught up in Pysadi's
aguarian/religious way of life.  He changed his name (like Casus Clay
changing his name to Muhommad Ali because of his religion), quit his
post, and came to live on Pysadi.

There, he got involved in making "Mother Pysadi" better than she already
was by using his influence within the Imperial government to petition
for an autodrone.

The autodrone is a TL 15, fully automated space station. It's only 500
tons, and it can be fitted with different types of equipment.  In this
case, our Pysadian convert, Professor Mir, equiped it with orbit to
surface planetary sensors.

Mir's plan was this--prospect for lanthanum deposits in the system's
outer planets (which other research had told him there was a strong
possiblilty) which are virtually unexplored.

This autodrone is Pysadi's hope for the future.  A viable lanthanum mine
could provide Pysadi with enough exports to put the system on the
map--especially with all of the sabre rattling going between the
Imperium and the Zhodani Consulate (The year is 1105--the eve of the
FFW, and the Imperium is locked in an arms race).

Well, our heroes get to Pysadi, and they are in a turmoil.  They've
received this message that the station is under attack by an unknown
alien force, and the message is three days old!  It takes time to
communicate that far outsystem.

There is no Scout Base.  There is no Navy Base.  And, Pysadi, being TL
4, has no way of mounting a rescue mission.

Guess who they turn to.  Yes, that's right.  My players had the fight of
their lives.

Now, when it comes to converting rules, take a look at this adventure. 
Pysadi is in the Traveller Adventure, but nothing about what I've said
is in there.  That's all me being a creative GM.

The autodrone, I got from an old Space Master mini-adventure.  The
aliens?  They were Kafers from T2300!  In this case, they are an unknown
alien race from the Far Frontier sector.  The Zhos found them in a
pre-historical state.  Using their psionics to communicate with them,
the Zhos sped them to be controlled warriors for the Consoluate--kinda
like the Gem'hadar are in Star Trek.

The plot?  The Zhos are gearing up for the FFW invasion.  They need
intelligence, but they don't want to risk starting the conflict too
early--they can't send in Zho regulars.

Instead, they send in the Kafers--a race the Imperium knows little about
and has no idea the Zhos are behind it.

The plan is to check out this top secret autodrone in the Pysadian
system.  They want the data logs to see if lanthanum has been found.

Given that it has, the Zhos plan the invasion.  They plan their first
strikes, but they also need forward bases.  You take a little ground,
you need logistics to keep you moving.  If lanthanum is in the Pysadian
system, then this system would be ideal for the FFW invasion.  

In the initial strike, they push deep and take a few world.  The second
wave takes the Pysadian system.  It is undefended--no Naval or Scout
base, and there are two gas giants insystem.  The Zhos use this system
as a staging area for deeper thrusts into the Marches. 

Before you know it, they are in the Rhylanor subsector.

Now, I've combined my own creativity, CT's the Traveller Adventure, a
Space Master mini-adventure, and aliens from T2300.

How's that for conversion?  

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:59:24 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

First off, I think MOST people would STEAL their photocopies from a machine at work.

Secondly, photocopying this material WOULD violate copyright of the author, correct?

I cannot believe this thread went this long without someone picking up on it.


On 15 Sep 97 at 3:36, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Jory M. Earl wrote:
> > 
> > I'll photo copy my Traders and Gunboats and send it to you if you have
> > "Solomani Rim", "Merchant Prince" or any alien modules that you would do
> > the same for me.
> 
> Thanks for the offer, but I'll find a copy of T&G one of these days. I'd
> be glad to help you out though.
> 
> You may want to think about it before you rush into copying anything
> though.  It seems like a little thing, but it can add up real quick.
> 
> The Vargr Alien Module is 51 pages.  At $0.10 per page to copy, you are
> looking at $5.1 to copy the thing.  You end up with a photocopy that may
> be dark and unreadable in places, and if you search, you may find the book
> for a buck or two more.
> 
> And, that's just one book.  I have all the Alien Modules that I can copy
> for you, and I have Solomani Rim and Merchant Prince.  You're looking at
> over $50 to copy all of that.  Postage will probably cost you another buck
> a book, so now you are looking at over $60.
> 
> If you do want a copy of one or all of these, I will be happy to do it for
> you.  I think you'd be better off trying to find a printed copy though.
> 
> Let me know if you want to copy something.  We'll figure out the price for
> copys and postage, and you can send me a check.  Then I'll copy the stuff
> and send it to you.
> 
> I am glad to help you out if this is the route you want to go.
> 
> Kenneth.
> 


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:32:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: Don Stark <stark@glacier.nrlssc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: using weapons in vacuum atmosphere

> > I'd also think that the lack of an atmosphere would contribute to the weapon 
> > overheating when being used in auto mode. I seem to recall something in 
> > connection with the shuttle or Mir about how heat dissipation is a
> > significant problem in space since there is no medium to convect the
> > heat.
> 
> Isn't the heat primarily generated from the friction of the round against
> the lands (rifling) and the heat of the propellent?

Yes, my thinking was that the source of heating would be almost the same 
whether or not one had atmosphere, but any weapon in rapid fire that was
normally "air" cooled would run into problems.
> 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> >                                 |                                   |
> > Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
> >                                 |          /   _`,                  |
> > Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
> > Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
> > --------------------------------|                                   |
> > e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
> > --------------------------------|                                   |
> > Phone: (601) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
> >        (601) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Cool signature!
> 
Thanks, I got it from the GASP (Gulf Area Sea Paddlers) web site. Jackie
allowed me to use it.

    
- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                                |                                   |
Don Stark                       |           ,/7_                    |
                                |          /   _`,                  |
Naval Research Lab, Code 7322   |         (.)\) \|_                 |
Bay St. Louis, MS 39529         |          0    /^~'                |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
e-mail: stark@nrlssc.navy.mil   |                                   |
- --------------------------------|                                   |
Phone: (601) 688-4151 work      |              ' )( `               |
       (601) 688-4759 fax       |   ~~~~~~~~~~~''  ``~~~~~~~~~~~~   |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:34:57 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: What does TL mean?

Moin Scott Ellsworth,

> Further, high pop worlds are such incredible resources that they run the
> universe.  I play it that 2.5% of all worlds are pop A, 5% pop 9, and the
> rest are either nearly empty, or have an average population of 10-100
> million.

	My economic house rule states that with increasing techlevel 
	diversification also increase, and that you need the synergy
	of a (10^TL)/(2^MaintModifier) population to build this
	techlevel, even if you have higher theoretical knowledge.
	Because of this, you need a lot of trade to build Tl 12.

	TL 12 needs (10^12)/(2^6)=15000 million people.

	We currently have about 900 million people so we can
	build Tl10 - if we could educated anybody to at least
	Tl8 standarts. I only count 3 techlevels called military,
	advanced, and civlian anything below is subsumed as backwater.

	You of course have to distinct this "brutto techlevel"
	with the "netto techlevel" and the "scout techlevel".

	The brutto techlevel is those theoretical value.
	The netto techlevel of an economie on continent, world,
	subsector, or imperial level is the techlevel for
	export goods.  While the scout techlevel (in the UWP)
	is only a measurement of how good the starport is.

	- If the scouts would take a look on current terror@sol,
	  they would tell that we are TL7, even if our potencial
	  is Tl10, and even if we sell them some Tl8 goods. As
	  long as those goods are non space related, and we can
	  not sustain Tl8 system (defense) boat production or
	  repair, they would'nt call us Tl8. If we hav'nt Shuttle
	  and Mir they'll call us Tl6. I think anytime a new
	  scout report is published a free traders network patch
	  is released after some weeks, to reflect the netto
	  techlevel.

> Given the benefits of high population and low density, I expect that many
> systems are looking to expand into their own system.  Jump drives are
> cheap, but normal space is cheaper.  It is economically feasible to ship
> raw ores across normal space, which I would be surprised if it was a good
> idea to do that with jump ships.

	The reason for transporting junk with a jump ship, is that
	as long as the hinterworld is below civilan standart techlevel,
	his population is not counted for the synergy potencial. So
	if you want to push the third world with high tech export,
	you have to import bananas or rocks.

	What do you prefer diamonds from Namibia, or bananas from
	Ruanda ? Oh bananas are a novellity perhaps its make its mark,
	while diamonds are cheap industrial produceable at higher
	techlevels. Its allways better to have the cargo bay half full
	of organic junk, and half of anorganic junk, than to drive
	empty ;-)
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:54:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Ever hear the *real* story behind the "engine that runs on water"
> > stories? 
> 
> No!!! (standing here tapping my foot impatiently)

Isn't that the scam where acetalyne (sp.) was used?  Works, but gives the
engine a lifespan measured in hundreds of miles?

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:31:43 -0400
From: Thomas Walter Trelenberg <tomt@scri.fsu.edu>
Subject: Why the PoD was so devistating!!! ;->

I think I've figured it out!!!! ;->

Why was the PoD so devistating?!  Well just imagine as contact with the
Terrans was anticipated, the Vilani all began x-boat (or insert
perferred communication method) messaging each other arguing about how
devistating the plague would be....the people x-boated then x-boated
back a reply that, no, in fact the effects of contact with the Terrans
would be trivial as only a few thousand Vilani on each of the 10000
Vilani worlds would die and therefore you have a better chance of
winning the lottery---even if you didn't buy a ticket.  These repeated
exchanges eventually took up so much jumpwidth that it eventually became
impossible for any real communications to be conducted..i.e.  THE
TERRANS ARE COMING.  The collapsing of the communication net plus the
excessive expendature of limited planetary resources (for the running of
computer terminals late into the night as the next chapter of the
ongoing argument was typed--on less technologically advanced worlds,
whole forests were leveled to make paper) proved to be more than the
crumbling Vilani infrastucture could handle.  Planets then fell into
isolation, yet the arguments continued on a planetary level and gobbled
up what resources remained.  Eventually, when all the resources were
gone the Vilani just sat and waited.  Tensions mounted.  Thousand of
Vilani on each world died from starvation and exposure. When the Terrans
did finally arrive all stood in amazement as no plague befell them.  Who
would have believed that the Terrans come from behind jump technology
would bath them in low level radiaion that had the effect of killing off
all of the terrible microbes that would have infected the Vilani.  As it
was the Vilani were so happy not to be dropping like flies that it was a
cake walk to get the Vilani leadership to sign a contract giving the
Terrans rule over them---

Now before various TML factions decide to go off and get mad.....

1)	I am in no way claiming the above is canon

......OK...canonites and the RCCC taken care of...

2)	This is not a slam against anyone in particular by is meant as
frustration releif (for me) for the various endless, circular arguments
that the TML seems to thrive on.

This is HUMOR....it is meant to be FUNNY.....now back to your regular
programming....

TT

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:27:53 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Who is Famille Spofulam?

jim mckee wrote:

>
>>I have to say, for me, Famile Spofulum are one of the best things
>>about the
>>TML.
>
>I came in late on this one guys , who are the spofulum and what does TML
>mean ??
>
>thank you in advance
>
>

	The TML is what you're reading now.

	Famille Spofulam LIC are a non-canonical family-run mini-megacorp
that I cooked up a while back; they're the fictional background for the
various weapon, vehicle, and starship designs that I do.  CEO is the
somewhat sinister family patriarch Hengabar Spofulam, their business
practices are under continual investigation by Imperial authorities, and
the rumours that their design bureau is a hotbed of substance abuse are
rife.  Incidents such as their recent Patrol Cruiser THUDDD submission, and
the placement of the owner's san on their Imelda-class yacht do nothing to
alleviate this image problem.

	 Furthermore, their practice of unpaid apprenticeships for the
younger members of the family is the subject of an ongoing smear campaign
by the Sylean Bureau of Youth Protection, and they are _loathed_ by every
single consumer and product safety lobby group in the Imperium, especially
Mothers Against Grav Cycle Carnage.


	Some of their better-known products include a Fusion+ powered
T-plate propelled pogo stick capable of reaching orbit at 8 G's if the
parental safety overrides are hacked, a 6.66 mm gauss hunting rifle with
6,000 m/s muzzle velocity, the Caligula-class 1000td megayacht, a 20mm
gauss hand cannon,  and the Moonshine-class smuggl..., er, Rapid
Insertion/Extraction Starship (does 9G, stealthed, the works).

	If you like I can send you some of them...



Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1850
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 19 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1851



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Communism in Traveller (Was Re: The politics of money )
Re: Mir
Re: TNS articles
Re: FF&S2 Question
Re: Fusion
RE: Trade or Sell
RE: Question on Drugs
Not ........Mechwarrior!
Re: Hackett, Ing
Re: T4 subsector generator program
RE: Live Campaigns?
Re: Chemical engines
Re: [T97#1837] Sayat
Re: FF&S2 Question
Re: German WWII Ogre?
DS ammo in vacuum
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1850
Re: Who is Famille Spofulam?
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: T4 subsector generator program
Re: Mir Research
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Sensors
Re: How to get things done!
Re: X-boats & couriers
Re: Jump in Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:42:51 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Communism in Traveller (Was Re: The politics of money )

Peter Newman writes: 

>Have you taken a look at the government type table ?  _All_ of the
>(Imperial) Traveller government types could be communistic and for many
>government types it is a probable explanation. 
>
>Government Type
>
>0       No Government - This could be the ultimate marxist state after 
>the state withers away.

   Which every knows is never going to happen.  Marx had his moments
(had the Western cultures not had the ability to reform themselves, he
would have been right about a great deal more), but in light of
experience, many of his works read like bad science-fiction today.

   An excellent post, but be sure that you don't confuse Socialism and
Communism.  The former is an economic system while the later is a
political one.  Communists tend to espouse socialist economic policy
(especially centralized socialism), but as we have seen in China, the
two are mutually exclusive concepts.  Countries such as Spain, Sweden,
and Greece on the opposite end have socialistic (semi-socialist)
economies but are democracies.

   All this brings up the question, "is the Imperium a capitalist
society?"  True enough there is a large degree of local political
autonomy, but wouldn't the basic priniciples under which the Imperium is
founded tend to force member worlds to include themselves in
interstellar trade and therefore open their markets?  It would be next
to impossible to run a centralized, planned economy under those
conditions.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:59:54 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Mir

At 06:08 PM 9/18/97 BST-1, Andrew wrote:

>The two Russians and one American on board the station are
>reportedly terrified beyond lucidity.
                             ^^^^^^^^

Of course!  Shannon left *months* ago....

- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
| All spelling and grammar errors in this  |
|    message are the fault of El Nino.     |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:40:44 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: TNS articles

At 04:43 PM 9/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>       Speaking of the JTAS TNS articles, I have reuploaded them to my
>website by request, since the IG website doesn't contain the souces. Along
>with uploading the old ones from JTAS, they have been expanded to include
>about half the Challenge ones.

URL?


- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
|  "Avoid small projects, they leave no    |
|   mark on people's memories."            |
|   -Daniel Burnham, SF City Planner, 1906 |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:33:27 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Question

At 05:37 PM 9/18/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Douglas E. Berry wrote:
>
>> Unfortunantly, no.  You could easily use the FFS1 rules with a little
>> conversion, but since you are so retentive about sticking exactly to the
>> rules as handed down from the mountain, I know *that'll* never happen  :)
>
>What!?  Surely you jest.  Or, you have a wrong impression of me.

Of course I jest!  Sheeshh.. 

<snip>

>I just incorporated tactical combat into the game, and I'm using CT's
>Snapshot rules for that.

You'll be happy to know that we're working hard on At Close Quarters, a
tactical combat system (formally known as TACS)

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:36:52 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Fusion

>This is not so easy. The inverse-square law is a consequence of
>*geometry*. You can get a field that drops off more *slowly* by
>limiting the radiation to part of a sphere. But you can't have it cover
>*more* than a sphere. So inverse square drop-off is the *limit*, you
>can't get it to drop off faster.

I beg to differ. First of all, dipole forces drop off as an inverse cube. I
believe you can get inverse-fourth and higher powers with suitably arranged
quadrapoles and such.

Moreover, all this applies only to *point sources*. There are plenty of
other things in this universe aside from point sources. With suitable
engineering you can get just about any force law you want.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:45:53 -0500
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: RE: Trade or Sell

On Wednesday, September 17, 1997 05:21, Jory M. Earl wrote:
>  How much?  And BTW, is it better to write BELOW the quote, or post my
>  reply

Chop as MUCH of the quote as possible and retain clarity, ESPECIALLY 
..SIGS, and then insert your comments where appropriate...

FWIW, shouldn't be more than $6 to $12, I would guess -- I'd grab it at 
that.
______________________________________________________________________

David Reed           | All wickedness is weakness: that plea therefore
                     | With God or Man will gain thee no remission.
david@techrefuge.com |                -John Milton, "Samson Agonistes"
______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:17:18 -0500
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: RE: Question on Drugs

Ken:

Heh.  Have to raz you about the subject: which drugs were you on when you 
came up with these questions?  Which drugs were you on when you came up 
with your task system?

Oh, you meant a question *about* drugs!  <Just kidding...>


On Wednesday, September 17, 1997 19:09, Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> Question 1:  What TL do you think each is?  I'm guessing TL 6 Bandage
> Spray and TL 8 Fuzz Spray.

Sounds about right...

> Question 2:  What do you think the cost per dose is for these two
> drugs?  Pulling numbers out of the air, I'm thinking Cr100 per dose for
> the Bandage (although now I'm thinking that may be a bit high), and
> Cr400 per dose for Fuzz (that's seems to me to be just about right).

Cr100 is way too high, if your campaign involves much combat, but how much 
constitutes one "dose"?  Is one dose enough to hold together a single 
critical plasma wound to the chest?  It should cost more than gauze and an 
ace bandage, but probably more like Cr20.

Cr300 or Cr400 sounds reasonable for Fuzz (which color tab was this in 
TNE, or did it take both to get this effect?).

I'd make both of them TL8+...  Bandage may not sound like much at first 
glance, but it really is like having a first aid skill without requiring 
one.
______________________________________________________________________

David Reed           | All wickedness is weakness: that plea therefore
                     | With God or Man will gain thee no remission.
david@techrefuge.com |                -John Milton, "Samson Agonistes"
______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:37:37 -0500
From: David Reed <david@techrefuge.com>
Subject: Not ........Mechwarrior!

On Thursday, September 18, 1997 07:52, J. wrote:
> I picked up a copy of mechwarrior last weekend (the roleplaying game not
> the
> computer game). It has lots of similarities with traveller, has anybody
> tried
> a cross over between Traveller and Mechwarrior?

Between MW and MT/HT/TNE perhaps...  Not CT/T4...  But that's just 
ambiance.  The rules are nothing like Traveller, although I would like to 
see the gearheads take on myomer tech and port it into FF&S2...  I've 
always thought that there weren't enough good "walkers" in Traveller.

> Mechwarrior doesn't have rules for building starships etc and
> concentrates
> on mechs and mech pilots, I was thinking of using the Mechwarrior
> background?
> any comments?
> anybody interested?

Have at it!  And share your tribulations (I hope they're few, but I doubt 
it).  MW was basically a poor attempt by FASA to bolt-on RPG capabilities 
to Battletech et al, IMO.  But I'm interested to see where your synthesis 
takes you.

How are you going to integrate battlemechs into the Traveller *feel* of 
things?  Dropships are pretty much reserved, it seems, for huge trading 
conglomerates and military actions.  The Battletech universe isn't much 
fun for anyone but 'Mech pilots anyway.  "You pull out your cZ@&% pistol 
and brandish it bravely toward the oncoming Warhammer.  He ignores you and 
continues razing the city...  Might I suggest that the party run for the 
dropship?"

The MW Mercenaries handbook has some great ideas, though, and most FASA 
products have excellent artwork.

I wish our (T4) starships had paintjobs as cool as the average battlemech 
(or tank from T2k for that matter).  *sigh*  <unrelated ramble> I think 
Chris has a lot of talent, but I don't like my starships (except maybe 
Vargr) to look like throwbacks to American cars of the 1950s...  Tail 
fins?  Really...  More cloud-creatures that appear to be eyeing grav 
cities for lunch!!!</unrelated ramble>
______________________________________________________________________

David Reed           | All wickedness is weakness: that plea therefore
                     | With God or Man will gain thee no remission.
david@techrefuge.com |                -John Milton, "Samson Agonistes"
______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 97 23:06:43 -0600
From: Mark <bdmahan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hackett, Ing

>"WW 3 - The Twilight Struggle" or somesuch - same war, but in 
>secondary theaters, and non-conventional aspects.

The Third World War: The Untold Story.
Team Yankee by Maj Harold Coyle takes place in this war.  None of his 
other books do although.

Weapons are an important factor in war, but not the decisive one: it is 
the man and not the materials that count. - Mao Tsetung

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:22:12 -0500
From: "Linda Baxter" <Baxter@midusa.net>
Subject: Re: T4 subsector generator program

> I just finished a rough version of my subsector generator program, using
the
> tables provided in T4. The program runs on just about any PC with Windows
> (and possibly without). If anyone's interested, I could post the program
on
> the list. The program is written in C, so if someone wants the source
code,
> mail me.

I would be very interested in looking at this program. Thanks.

baxter@midusa.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:49:07 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: RE: Live Campaigns?

Location:	Burnaby, B.C, Canada
Age:	4 months
Meeting Freq:	every 2 weeks (with interruptions)
Group Size:	4
Referees:	Just me
Health:	Will probably move to every 3 weeks due to new school term.
Rules Mix:	T4 + KBV2.0 + RPSCS + making it up as I go along
Campaign:	Sylean Federation ca. 630

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:41:32 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

>Ever hear the *real* story behind the "engine that runs on water"
>stories?

The one I heard was:

A fellow was making a killing selling magic tablets that would let you run
your car on water. Expensive, sure, but you never had to pay for gas again!
He could show you a car that ran on it, and if you were still skeptical he
let you try it out first; he would let you pick the car, inspect it as much
as you like, empty the gas tank and fill it with water, then he'd drop in a
tablet. And it worked, too. You could drive the car around.

So why do we still buy gasoline instead of tablets? Apparently the tablets
were acetone, a volatile water-soluble chemical used for making explosives.
The water was blown into steam and acted simply as a displacement gas. The
inside of the engine got "blown into steam" as well, and I imagine his
customers would be calling tow trucks after driving a few blocks.

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:09:48 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: [T97#1837] Sayat

Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 13:39:35 -0400, kenji@accessone.com (Kenji
>Schwarz) wrote:
>
>>I don't see the Sayat as becoming part of the 3I. More like a client state
>>of the Hiver Federation, I think.  If that.
>
>Which is, ISTR, how you positioned them in the original musings.

Yep, so I did.  Originally, when the germ of the idea first infected me,
the idea was that they were more in coreward-spinward space, near the
Zhodani Consulate.  That has its own appeal, but makes the Hiver influence
a little hard to swallow.  Doesn't matter, really.

>>I've got something like 120K of .TXT of almost-finalized crap about these
>>critters now -- too much to post to the list, anyway.  Maybe time to see
>>about getting a webpage and put 'em up there, along with our working
>>materials on Vilani linguistics... talk about cultural diversity <G>
>
>Kenji, the Sayat have a home on Freelance Traveller anytime you
>send them to me.

I think I may just do that -- 'course, if they get rowdy and misbehave, you
can always send 'em on back.  Kids these days, y'know...

It'll be a week or so.  Right now, I'm trying to do something constructive
with & to Vilani verbs, for the third time.  Which, according to the
manual, pays for all.  If the TravLang list finds it agreeable, I expect it
won't be long before someone's translating the "Free Trader Beowulf"
distress signal into Vilani...

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:03:42 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Question

> You'll be happy to know that we're working hard on At Close Quarters, a
> tactical combat system (formally known as TACS)

Whose "we".  This is a game produced by TML people, or are you doing 
it for publishing by IG?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 03:06:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Winland <kwinland@chass.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: German WWII Ogre?

	Greetings!

	Actually, Hitler called for a 1000 ton tank to be built.
Prelminary designs had it powered by 4 U-Boat engines.  There is little
info about it (most of it in the Bundesarchiv), but it was not seriously
persued.

	Laterish!

	Ken
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 Dartek@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 97-09-18 02:56:52 EDT, you write:
> 
> << Forget bridges!!!   What about the ground itself?  The Germans by 1944 had
>  designed a 1000mt tank powered by 4 U-boat diesels with a "projected" main
>  armament of one 800mm. cannon and 2 450mm "secondary cannons.  Talk about
> the
>  heights of absurdity.  Can we design it, however, with CSC?  That remains to
>  be seen.   >>
> Sounds like an Ogre Cybertank to me...
> Ken
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:07:48 +0100 (BST)
From: eem2ds@ee.surrey.ac.uk (Douglas Sinclair)
Subject: DS ammo in vacuum

I don't know too much about guns, but I have taken some courses
in spacecraft dynamics.  The rifling induced spin on a DS penetrator
will keep it pointing forwards, even in the prescense of small
disturbances.  If a disturbance torque acts on it in flight it may
wobble like a top but the point will still be within a few degrees
of forward.

Of course, for a long slender penetrator this configuration is
a spin about the minor inertial axis.  Such spins are unstable in
the long run, though for a rigid bullet it would take days to
destabilize.  If you shot your ACR in deep space, and looked at
the penetrator a few days later you would see it tumbling end
over end, looking somewhat like a propellor as it moves through
space.  The poor folks who built the Explorer I satellite were
unfortunately not familiar with this effect...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:09:58 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1850

On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:44:11 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:31:43 -0400
>From: Thomas Walter Trelenberg <tomt@scri.fsu.edu>
>Subject: Why the PoD was so devistating!!! ;->
>

>
>Now before various TML factions decide to go off and get mad.....
>
>1)	I am in no way claiming the above is canon
>
>.....OK...canonites and the RCCC taken care of...
>
>2)	This is not a slam against anyone in particular by is meant as
>frustration releif (for me) for the various endless, circular arguments
>that the TML seems to thrive on.
>
>This is HUMOR....it is meant to be FUNNY.....now back to your regular
>programming....

ROTFLOL!!!

Phil

- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:38:47 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Who is Famille Spofulam?

Send all of those neat sounding semi-legal items.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:42:20 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Well photo-copying may be illegal, but what other options do i have?
Sure, I'd gladly buy the stuff if they re-released it.  but they're not.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:43:22 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: T4 subsector generator program

ok, I'll bite..send me the program.

Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I just finished a rough version of my subsector generator program, usin=
g the
> tables provided in T4. The program runs on just about any PC with Windo=
ws
> (and possibly without). If anyone's interested, I could post the progra=
m on
> the list. The program is written in C, so if someone wants the source c=
ode,
> mail me.
>
> The program creates a text file containing the system data in explained
> form, not the UWP's (as I am not fond of using them).
> Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm (Link=F6ping, Sweden)



- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:05:50 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Mir Research

Yeah I had already read the MIR message because it's in the last issue
of the Hal5 Society's newsletter.  I wasn't sure if it was for real or
not.  Ideas anyone?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:07:45 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Yup, Lucas Trask from "Space Vikings".

It really amazes me..I go my whole life never running into another soul
who has even heard of that book, and now several of you on this list
have mentioned it.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:11:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sensors

In mail you write:

>    If you need to shut a power plant down quickly to hide from another ship's
> sensors, would one need to make any kind of roll to do this quickly and
> succesfully?

It basicly depends on how fast your radiators cool off. I *think* that
the cooling will follow an inverse 4th power law. 
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:25:12 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: How to get things done!

In mail you write:

>  I rather like laser launch systems as they can provide a nasty surprise
>  to anybody attacking the port (a gigawatt laser with a ROF of 60 to 100
>  times *per second* is gonna ruin your day :-) >>
>
> This is the mythical HELL system (High Energy Laser Lift).  It's really a
> quite simple system.  Can use normal water for reaction mass if you are
> desperate enough...
> As for base defense with the laser I doubt it.  Unless the poor dope flew
> right over the site and got vaporized....

Don't forget that the beam (actually several "synchronized" beams) is
bounced off a *steerable* mirror, as the ship needs sideways velocity,
not just a "straight up" boost.

So for defense, you either "over design" the mirror actuators so that
it can slew *fast*, or you have an "extra" mirror for each laser in the
launch system (thus turning one launch laser into a dozen or so defense
lasers at lower power).

Remember that the original designs had the component lasers doubling as
ABM lasers. And the power generation capacity required is pretty
significant. Add some storage capacity to level out the drops when the
lasers are being used for launching, and you can sell a lot of power.
Or else set up some industries that take lots of power but can either
handle the dropouts or schedule around them (electrical "smelting" type
ops can be set up so that you could drop most of the (heating) power
for as much as 15 minutes out of the hour).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:39:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: X-boats & couriers

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, sit down and figure out how much "parking space"
>> there is at the 100 diameter limit. It's far quicker to have the
>> couriers "parked" out there and "beam" the news to them via radio or
>> laser rather than have them closer and then have to waste time getting
>> to where they can jump.
> 
> I would have reservations about keeping a ship on station for any extended
> period of time.  You not only have crew endurance to consider, but there
> is incoming traffic propagating at and around that point (yes, it's a
> very small possibility, but the chance of collision still does exist), but
> having that J6 ship sitting out there, all by itself, would be an
> incredible temptation to competitive corporations (not to mention the bold
> corsair).

Well, I rather expect that at major hubs there are a *lot* of private
and public stations out there at the 100 dia limit. For example, if
cargo is just "passing thru", why bother hauling it to even high orbit
if you don't have to?

And for courier work, 100 dia limit stations make too much sense. 

BTW, remember, this isn't a "point". It's the surface of a *huge*
sphere. And ships coming *out* of jump can be quite a ways away.
Remember, a one hour slip in exit time means a 108,000 km position
difference for a planet that orbits at 30 km/sec.

> Of course, there is no reason that the ship has to be in the orbit of the
> mainworld, any orbit (including solar) would be sufficient - provided that
> the resources represented by the ship and support staff justify the cost
> (ref. the rest of my original post).

I figure that it makes more sense to have a station out there with the
ship docked to it. It costs more, but it's more flexible. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:50:47 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump in Traveller

In mail you write:

>>Two problems. First, that array will have to be a *lot* more than
>>"hundreds" of kilometers on a side. Consider the possible course lines,
>>given various start and end points in the two systems. Just between the
>>two mainworlds givens you a spread of courselines as wide as their
>>orbits (a couple of AU, ie about 300 *million* kilometers). Second, not
>>only do you have to position the array *very* carefully, but every
>>sensor has to have the same velocity. And that velocity has to be such
>>that the array will *stay* between the systems, in spite of their
>>relative motions.
>
> I beg to differ. You don't cover their entire orbit, that would be silly.
> The arrays maintain position just outside the jump point to the other
> system. The sensors only need enough maneuverability to maintain position.
> Relative motion between systems won't cause a problem because they are not
> *accelerating* relative to each other to any great extent.

Excuse me? If they are "just outside the jump point", that means that
they are not *between* the systems. They are *in* one of them. Also,
you seem to think that there is "a" jump point. Sorry, but you can jump
from *anywhere* on the surface of a sphere 100 planetary diameters in
radius (and from points outside it). With Marc's "straight line" idea,
you only wind up excluding a relatively *small* patch on one side of
the sphere.

Just *this* means that the possible starting points cover an area 2.8
*million* km across (assuming a size 7 planet).

If the sensors *are* "between" the systems, then you *are* dealing with
the entire orbital spread.

>>Excuse me? The only reason things are 2-d in the game (which *includes*
>>N-space!) is because 3d maps are *way* too much trouble.
>
> I didn't say "things" are 2D, I said "J-space" is 2D. Look at the jump
> distances between systems; everything can only fit on a plane. Sure, 3D
> maps are too much trouble in a game, but why is jump space 2D in the Third
> Imperium? You know, the fictional universe all this stuff takes place in?
> Unless you have some real world evidence about physical properties of
> J-space, all the data we have about J-space is in the the Traveller
> rulebooks, and every book draws jump maps on flat pieces of paper. I'm not
> trying to be snarky, the only reality about "J-space" is in the game, and
> if the game shows it as 2-dimensional then it *really is*.

Sorry, doesn't work. Because those *same* maps are *also* supposed to
be maps of N-space. For example, the folks who settled the Island
Clusters in the Great Rift got there via several centuries of *slower*
than light travel. No J-space involved.

Thus, J-space and N-space have the same dimensionality. Also, mapping
functions for mapping 2d-3d are *not* continous functions. So you'd get
a real mess. The 2d map and the 3d map don't match up in a "sensible
way" (that is, distance on one map *doesn't* give you any idea of
distance on the other).

>>First thing, you'll need one *hell* of a grav emitter. Second, you've
>>got to get it close to the ship's course (gee, how'd you know about it
>>in advance?) and finally, how do you get the message to the array
>>before the ship goes by?
>
> Why would we need such a huge grav emitter? Current technology can detect
> microgravity and I would think TL 12 could do even better. Remember we're
> not trying to move planets; we only need to make a signal which is
> detectable.

Detectable above the "noise" caused by every moving mass on the ship,
every source of vibration, etc. Gravity is a *weak* force.

> As for ship's courses; remember the premise of this whole thing was that
> ships follow straight lines through N-space while in jump. You know where
> the jump points are, you can draw a straight line, you put the arrays on
> the lines. And again, the message is waiting at the array before the ship
> goes by.

Which means that you had to know *in advance* that a particular ship
was going to take that course. So at the very least, you can only talk
to a ship that is on a *scheduled* run *and* is on schedule to a matter
of milliseconds (so you can emit the signal at the time the ship is
passing) And given the official spread in duration of a jump, assuming
the ship moves at a constant velocity, you can't even predict *where*
it'll be at any given time.

>>Again, j-space *isn't* 2-d.
>
> Maybe in your campaign, but every jump map published in every version of
> Traveller is 2D. I don't think this is some kind of typo, but considering
> MT and T4 one can never be sure.

Every published map of star systems is 2d also. And as noted above, the
maps of stars are supposed to be *N-space* maps. Besides the Island
Clusters, we also have the evidence of the Maghiz. The massive flare on
Darrian's sun propogated thu *normal* space to affect the worlds that
are nearby on those same 2d maps.

> IIRC there was a thread a few months ago trying to explain why jump maps
> are 2D. The best one I heard was that jump space itself is 2D. Apparently
> 2-space and 3-space are of the same cardinality, so there is a 1-1 mapping
> between J-space and N-space. Topographically they are very different, so I
> felt it extremely unlikely that a straight line in J-space would map to a
> straight line in N-space. This also explains why stars aren't in the same
> relative positions on jump maps as in N-space. If this isn't canon it
> should be.

Except that as I note above, again and again we find that the maps of
stars are *N-space* maps. And the stars adjacent in N-space are
adjacent in J-space. (Third example: the stars near Sol in J-space are
the ones near it in N-space).

As for the mapping, *I* was one of the folks pointing out that you
*could* map a 3d space onto a 2d space. But as I also pointed out, the
results are of interest *only* to topologists.

*Projections* of a higher space onto a lower always involve
distortions. 1-1 mappings are so distorted that the results aren't
useful as a "map" in the normal sense. "Mapping" in math means
something a *lot* different.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1851
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 19 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1852



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Legal stuff (was Re: Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture))
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture)
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Live Campaigns and........Mechwarrior
Re: ISBA
Re: Mercenary economics
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Re: FF&S drop tanks
Re: DS ammo in vacuum
Re: FF&S2 Question
Re: Siru Zirka population figures
Re: X-boats & couriers
Re: Trade or Sell

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 02:06:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Legal stuff (was Re: Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture))

In mail you write:

> I rule that they do not have a lot of power to compel in the general case,
> but that when they need to use it for an Imperial crime, that they can do
> almost anything.  Remember that the people sitting on the bench are almost
> certainly Nobles, which I have rules as being the 3I equivalent of the
> Forbes 500 list.  There are roughly 3000 ranked nobles above baronet in Y0,
> and they all have world wrecking power.  As the Imperium ages, they sparse
> out a bit, so that there are roughly 3000 per subsector, and it is rare for
> anyone to be concerned with an area larger than that.

This reminds me of a lovely idea from a book I just read.

The latest Miles Vorkosigan book is out in paperback. "Memory". The
short description in the timeline is "Miles hits thirty. Thirty hits
back."  

Anyway, I won't give away the plot. But Bujold introduces us to a "new"
feature of the Barrayan empire. The "Imperial Auditor". Think of a
cross between an Inspector General and a double-0 agent. Sort of like a
"Special Prosecutor". These are the folks the Emperor sends when he
wants *answers*. The have the authority to do just about *anything*.

There are permanently appointed ones, and a provision for "temporary"
ones. The "temps" only serve for one investigation.

I *like* the concept. And I think it'd fit nicely into the Imperium. 

Read the book to get a better idea of the way the office works.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:18:41 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you (was RE: Traveller Solution Series: Computer Architecture)

In mail you write:

> If this is true, how do we then tweak our 'puters to do this or that 
> better-faster-longer than they're programmed to do?  (I *vaguely* remember 
> seeing several task for this in various Traveller systems... and, no, 
> rewritable environment variable matrices don't cut it, either - limited 
> variability that can't deal with entirely new params outside the program 
> spec.)

For the "expert system" type programs (like gunnery), you change the
"rules" it uses, not the program itself. And likely, the program would
work it both ways (standard rules and modified) so you could see if
your changes were better than the stock stuff.

For a good example of the man-machine interaction on something like
this, check out the sections of Heinlein's "Citizen of the Galaxy"
where Thorby is a gunner on the Sisu. The computer is figuring course
tracks and possible firing solutions. The gunner keeps feeding it "what
if" ideas ("What if he does *this*?", "What if I do *that*?").
Sometimes the computer's logical projections give the firing solution,
sometimes the gunner's intuitive projections do.

Also, some "tweaking" may be along the lines of "tweaking" the ROM in
your car's engine computer. A lot of folks by the tweaked chips to
increase performance. Of course, this also increases pollution. So the
car makers are making it harder to mess with the chips. 

Still, when dealing with something like a starship or even commercial
aircraft/spacecraft, I'd imagine that part of the engineering skills
involves knowing how to read the specs for the code and use the
maintenance gear to "tune" things for the specific idiosyncracies of
your installation (*Nothing* that complex can be "identical"). But this
is more like tuning an engine than programming. You'd be updating
tables and possibly modifying "rules". It'd be a lot different from
what we generally think of as programming.

> Has perpetual betaware been done away with?

Consider that we've been writing in "high level" language for about 4
decades. And "programming" for about a century (counting Babbage, and
not counting a lot of the period between when he gave up and folks
re-invented the idea).

When we've been doing this for several *millenia*, we ought to do a
much better job. 

> The ability to "re-write" at least your "non"-critical, but 
> very-important, systems' software would be too useful for folks who 
> operate beyond the fringe to give up.  "Let me get this straight.  I'm 
> usually at least two months out of regular contact, I can't access the 
> system code or fix a bug myself, but I get your 'gold-lifetime-onsite' 
> service package for only MCr1?  Who's your competitor down the street?"

Consider the idea that the software has been getting the bugs removed
for several *centuries*. Having a bug show up is an *extremely* rare
occurence. Not like the current mess where we have hardware bugs,
firmware bugs, software bugs, and poor integration between different
subsystems. 

> I've been thinking about jumping to the implications of s/w in Traveller:
>
> * How do you call the helpdesk when you're gunnery program GPFs?

How do you call the help desk when your pistol GPFs? It'll be about as
likely. 

> * How do you sue the manufacturer/publisher if you misjump into the 
> "choose-your-own" Rift?

Again, the software will have been doing this for *centuries, on
millions if not *billions* of ships. In the (extremely unlikely) case
that the software *is* responsible, you'd have to get back to sue.

> * Could you talk your AI into violating its own copy protection in an, um, 
> "emergency"?  (There's a short story, at least, in that somewhere.)

Not if it is properly written. And given the millenia of experience, I
rather suspect that the hardware *and* software will be "provably
correct". This is done now for systems that *can't* go wrong. It's
expensive and time consuming. But given that the basic computer
architecture doesn't change for *centuries* (rather than every six
months like now), this is likely the way they'd go. If for no other
reason than to avoid being sued!

("Provably correct" means that every possible state of the cpu has been
checked and that the software logic and code have been thru the
equivalent. Think of it as trying every *possible* input and verifying
that the output is correct for those inputs. There *are* shortcuts that
keep it from taking forever, but it is tedious.

> * What do astrogators really do with all of their spare time?  Or on the 
> job for that matter?

I've done postings on this before. In essence, in system he is busy
checking the ship's position and course against both "charts" and
sensors to make sure that not only is the ship heading in the right
direction, but also that it never has a "projected course" that points
somewhere bad (like into "restricted" space owned by the Navy).

He also has to calculate the jump. And while in jump, he's gonna spend
at least some time reviewing the charts and navigational info (Notices
to Spacefarers, etc) for the destination. 

Upon exit from jump, the first thing he does is try to locate the
planet. He's also checking the star for distance and spectral readings.
If the spectrum checks he's pretty sure he's in the right system. If
not, he starts the computer trying to match the spectrum so he can find
out where he is. Meanwhile, the ship is trying to contact local traffic
control.

Assuming he *is* in the right place, he either locates the planet, or
the sensors beat him to it by locking onto a nav beacon. Then he steers
the ship towards a normal approach while waiting for specific course
assignment from traffic control.

> * Rather than dongle with copy.prot, haven't the s/w companies simply 
> raised prices to the legitimate customer?  And, of course, Microfirm 
> *could* persuade His Majesty to drop a legion or two of shock troops (aka 
> attorneys) to persue "hard drive loading" violators in some backwater... 
>  I seem to remember there being some treatment of copyright/patent issues 
> in M:0 (got that new hardcover today, judgement witheld pending review).

This is partly an artifact of the *kind* of computer and program.
There's a lot of stuff out there that's "built in". And you'd never
think about messing with it. Se the bit above about car computers and
ROMs. 

> * How long does it take for a trade secrets or patent violation case to 
> get to trial? 

It can take a long time. But remember, "trade secret" is a *very*
restricted class. It can only apply to things not easily reverse
engineered, and the "secret" has to be kept to a limited number of
people inside your company. If someone outside figures it out on his
own, you can't do a damn thing about it. If someone inside leaks it,
you can sue them for breach of contract and other such things.

Patent cases get messy. Often the patent gets invalidated!

> How much does it cost?

Lots.

> How long are patents and copyrights given before they expire legally
> into the public domain?

Currently patents are a 17(?) year term. Non-renewable. Copyright is 75
years (for corporations) or the life of the author plus 75 years (for
individuals). Also non-renewable.

Again, consider how long it is between tech level changes. The software
is going to be pretty damn stable. People will have settled what the
appropriate "bells and whistles" are a long time ago. Extra features
will be stock modules, with known behavior. In the *rare* case you come
up with a new idea, they can do the custom programming, but they'll be
able to check interactions *far* better than we can.

> * Does a ship's computer have any games other than Solitaire and 
> Minesweeper?

That's part of the ship's entertainment system, not the main computer.

> ** What are the Imperial subpeona laws like?  Do you still get the 
> statutory MCr1 per day for showing up?  How do you find a jury of "peers"? 
>  (Sorry, US judicial jargon leaking through here...)

Good question. Frankly, I'd hope that jury pay is *at least* minimum
wage. And that they have *some* means of making sure that the jurors
are "informed", rather than some of the (a bit *too*
ignorant/uneducated) types we get now.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:32:22 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Other option = "Doing Without"
Other option = "Tracking down and buying a used, legit copy"

There's two.

On 19 Sep 97 at 1:42, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> Well photo-copying may be illegal, but what other options do i have?
> Sure, I'd gladly buy the stuff if they re-released it.  but they're not.


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:49:37 -0400
From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns and........Mechwarrior

> Mechwarrior doesn't have rules for building starships etc and concentrates
> on mechs and mech pilots, I was thinking of using the Mechwarrior
> background?
> any comments?

I had brought over my BattleTech game to a Traveller session once.
The ref used a few mechs... We had found this old base that housed
these strange old battle robots. It was fun trying to get them to
work. Then we used it to attack our foe (I forget the details).
It was amusing. Only did it once.  :-)

ciao,

Denis Allain
New-Brunswick, Canada
mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:17:00 -0400
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Re: ISBA

The Commander's Elite BureauX Agents have intercepted the following 
message...

>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:16:42 -0700
>From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
>Subject: re: ISBA

>>The ISBA maintains a web site, and we have our own mailing list which is
>>about half role play and half gear headism.

>What's the URL and address for the mailing list? BAMtech Sensors, Inc.,
>would probably be interested in participating...

>Bruce

The ISBA was set up by Sir Josephanoer Califor and Myself nearly a year 
ago.(Founder Shipworks & X-TEK Industries)  The membership list is quite 
huge, but we are always accepting new members.

Companies in the ISBA come in all shapes sizes and specialties, Famille 
Spofulam has been described in some detail, I think it fair to describe my 
company as well :)

My Company (X-TEK) Specilizes in mostly military hardware and small, fast 
ships with big guns.  We are like Spofulam in that respect, but whereas they 
specilise in the personal arms department, X-TEK specilises in Starship 
Armament.  Things like the 10ton Meson Pod for 30ton Fighters and 100ton 
Assault scouts, and our latest development, the EPC Detonation Plasma 
Warhead for Missiles.  Its main cliam to fame is its deep space research, 
development and shipbuilding facility (and fully functioning Starport!) 
called "Planet X"

A "Sensor Guru" joining the ISBA would be most welcome.  We could use some 
new Q/SSDS sensor "packages" for small ships as they are laking in the 
current lists.

My Co-Founder Sir Josephanoer Califor(Tim Reynolds) maintains the ISBA site 
at the following address:

http://www.premier.net/~tim/ISBA.HTM

From there are links to various other sites, "Company" websites, the THUDDD 
pages, and ISBA history and information.

Tell Josph  "The Commander" sent ya :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:58:10 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Mercenary economics

Denis Allain asks:

>OK. But how would one go about calculating the cost of the starship?
>What would be the cost to *rent* it? 1%, 5%, 10% of the purchase
>price?  

0.125% (1/800th) of the ship's value per week if it is not put into danger; 
add the cost of insurance (value of ship * risk of loss) if it is. That will 
cover bank payments and a return of investment for the owner. Operating 
expenses (crew salaries, life support, and fuel) are not included in that
figure.

If the ship is going into dangerous territory it may not be possible to get
insurance. You'd have to work out with the owner how much he should get to
put the ship in danger. An agreement to replace the ship if it is lost
should always be sufficient, but can become very expensive (and require
a LARGE bond!).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 10:06:00 EDT
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@ansyspo.ansys.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Hi all,

I too have been surprised by the number of Piper fans that I encounter on 
this list.

I have been working on collecting all of H. Beam Piper's works. I have lived 
in Pennsylvania most of my life and that have made things a bit easier. 
Piper lived and worked in Williamsport, PA and I find a lot of good copies 
of his books is the used book swaps.

FWIW, my favorite local shop had copies of Uller Uprising, Federation, 
Empire, Four Day Planet/Lone Star Planet, First Cycle, and a bunch of the 
Fuzzies I can't recall.

Since I've got all the copies of these I want, I'll gladly put any 
interested TMLer in touch with the shop owner.

BTW, If anyone has spare 1980's Ace Edition of Lord Kalvan (the one with the 
Whelan cover) I'll buy or trade for it.


______________________________________________________
Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (412) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (412) 514-3118
______________________________________________________



 ----------
From: owner-traveller
To: traveller
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?
Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 2:07AM

Yup, Lucas Trask from "Space Vikings".

It really amazes me..I go my whole life never running into another soul
who has even heard of that book, and now several of you on this list
have mentioned it.

 --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:08:43 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

> I've been thinking about jumping to the implications of s/w in Traveller:

Oh! Me Too!

> * How do you call the helpdesk when you're gunnery program GPFs?

Well, what do you do when your car's computer-controlled carburetor
GPFs? Or when your computer-aided gas chromatograph GPFs?

Basically, the GPF is a type of fault the is really only found
in extremely shitty software and primarily on desktop-type PCs where
nothing going on is so important that it can't be interrupted for
a few minutes.

If we look at phone switches on the other hand, they have a specified
downtime of about 10-30 seconds per year. They're designed not to
do dumb stuff like SEGV-ing or GPF-ing. And guess what - they don't.

The GPF is a side-effect of a basic design assumption present in
almost all desktop software: "It's OK to GPF".  If the design document
says "No GPF-ing under any circumstances" then you can be pretty sure
it won't GPF. Please keep in mind that GE Defence Systems has a really,
really, REALLY different software development process than companies
like Microsoft or Intuit. 

GPF-ing is also a side-effect of programmers who use development 
environments that allow GPFs. You may note a distinct lack of 
GPF-type errors on systems developed using Smalltalk, ADA, COBOL,
Java, etc.

To explain, a GPF (General Protection Fault) is the same as the 
good ol' UNIX SEGV error. Basically, what happens is that the program
has a pointer that points outside the program's own memory space
and then tries to access it. The memory management hardware traps
it, saving other processes, but killing the offender. It's not
that hard to deal with, really.

> * How do you sue the manufacturer/publisher if you misjump into the 
> "choose-your-own" Rift?

Obviously you didn't read the contract very well. :)

> * Could you talk your AI into violating its own copy protection in an, um, 
> "emergency"?  (There's a short story, at least, in that somewhere.)

What are you going to copy it into? Chances are that any hardware capable
of running the AI already has another one installed and running...

> * What do astrogators really do with all of their spare time?  Or on the 
> job for that matter?

Same thing as teamsters... drink coffee, collect union dues,
that sort of thing (duck and run)

> * Rather than dongle with copy.prot, haven't the s/w companies simply 
> raised prices to the legitimate customer?  And, of course, Microfirm 
> *could* persuade His Majesty to drop a legion or two of shock troops (aka 
> attorneys) to persue "hard drive loading" violators in some backwater... 
>  I seem to remember there being some treatment of copyright/patent issues 
> in M:0 (got that new hardcover today, judgement witheld pending review).

Ever been to a city where people just don't jaywalk? Even when it's
perfectly safe and there isn't a police officer in a million miles?
Ever sat at a red light for a minute at 4 AM on an empty country road?
The Vilani just don't break copyrights/patents. They just don't.

> * Does a ship's computer have any games other than Solitaire and 
> Minesweeper?

I'd guess it would have the same games that they have on air
traffic control workstations.

Really, starships won't be run by super-duper IBM PCs.
When thinking of how starship computers work, think of how the
computerized systems on an aircraft carrier bridge work.
They'll be pretty much alike in terms of what you can do with them
(lots) and to them (nothing).

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                        ehenry@magma.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:24:37 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: FF&S drop tanks

I wrote:
>Oh, an you should also allow a decidedly dangerous version before 1090
>to account for the Scout ship that got away from the Islands Cluster
>(A 1-in-36 risk of disaster may be acceptable to castaways anxious to
>get home to their loved ones, but would be completely unacceptable for
>commercial use).

I checked _TCS_ and the Imperial ship that misjumped into the Islands
Cluster during 3FW didn't use drop tanks to get back, it used auxiliary
tanks. Propably jumped back and forth several times and laid out fuel
depots. It would take time, but it could be done.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:26:43 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: DS ammo in vacuum

On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:15:13 -0400, Peter H. Brenton wrote:

> It has now been established that CPR small arms will have no trouble in
> vacuum.  One poster suggested that fin-stabilised ammo might tumble in
> vacuum.
> 
> Would the spin induced by rifling prevent this?  Would the forces on the
> dart have to be finely balanced if tumbling was to be prevented?  Wouldn't
> the penetration of a dart be severely reduced if it was not pointed in the
> right direction (damage to "soft" targets would be increased for the same
> reasons).

Flechette ammunition is not spin-stabilized, although some discarding
sabot ammo is.  Since the fins on a flechette are straight, imparting
a spin in the projectile would be counter-productive to it's accuracy.
If the penetrator does not possess fins, it would be spin-stabilized.

The sabot on some tank rounds house the finned penetrator in a bearing
assembly so that when fired from a conventionally rifled barrel, only
the sabot spins.

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:39:31 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Question

At 07:03 AM 9/15/97 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> You'll be happy to know that we're working hard on At Close Quarters, a
>> tactical combat system (formally known as TACS)
>
>Whose "we".  This is a game produced by TML people, or are you doing 
>it for publishing by IG?

Right now I'm designing with James Lindsay doing development.  CORE has
expressed an interest in publishing it on the net, although I'm still
looking at options.

ACQ uses Action Points, and is based on my experiences and research into
personal combat.  One of the best bits of research I've done was down at
the SFPD firing range with a couple of cop friends as we timed actions like
drawing and reloading to figure AP costs, then we did a lot of shooting...

I've even bugged a martial artist friend on how many attacks he could make
in a 6 second period.  He offered to demonstate on me.

ACQ is on a little back burner due to another writing commitment, but We'll
have the next playtest version ready soon, hopefully.

Anyone wishing to contribute or playtest should contact me.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:50:59 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Siru Zirka population figures

Phillip McGregor writes:
>>>3) The population of "known space" at the end of the RoM was around 1000 
>>>   billion people (per a rough count of the Sector population as per "First 
>>>   Survey")  --
>>
>>Wait a minute. I thought _First Survey_ detailed things the way they are in
>>the Year 0? 
> 
>Read the rest, I'm extrapolating back from FS figures. 

But that extrapolation is worth very little; it could be spot on or it could
be miles off. It is certainly not any kind of proof.

>Unless you are suggesting that the Terrans of the beginning of the 
>Interstellar Wars, presumably with c. 5-10 billion population based on 
>current trends all on one planet actually *outnumbered* the *entire* 
>population of the ZS at that time!

I never suggested that. The figure I suggested was 100 billion. After some
reflection I still think that I could defend such a figure, but it is 
about the lower limit that I consider possible and a somewhat higher
figure, somewhere between 100 and 200 billion, seems reasonable to me.

>Extrapolating back to somewhere around 100-500 billion is exceedingly 
>reasonable as far as I can see it!

Agreed, but the higher the figure you get, the higher the odds against the
Terrans and the more difficult it is to believe in their victory, however
decadent and divided the Imperium may have been. I'm not saying that one
couldn't believe in 5 billion Terrans winning over 500 billion Vilani, but
it is far easier to believe in them vinning over 150 billion. So from that
point of view, the lower the figure the better.

The province of Kushuggi (Solomani Rim) constitute between 3 and 5% of the
area of the Siru Zirka (the higher figure if we postulate that the two
small bits of the SZ that lies in Magaar (Magyar) and Amkarin (Alpha
Crusis) are administered from Kushuggi). This province was about as
strong as Terra at some early point in the Interstellar Wars. But to
extrapolate any further from that is almost impossible, since we don't
know enough about Terra's infrastructure, the amount of taxes Kushuggi
paid to the centra treasury, what other problems the governor had to
deal with (how strong were the Vegans?), etc.

>>Let's go with the 99% survival rate. It is close enough to the one I 
>>consider the most likely one that I won't quibble about it. Which means
>>that:
>>
>>1% of the total Vilani population died.
>>An unknown percentage of them were infected but survived on their own.
>>An unknown percentage of them were infected but saved by the Terrans.
>>An unknown percentage of them were immunized before they were infected.
>>An unknown percentage of them were not exposed to infection.
>>The 1% is an average, which almost guarantees that the  figure is higher
>>for some planets and lower for other planets.   
> 
>I have no objection at all to this
> 
>>The figure may or may not represent deaths in the Plague of Duskir alone,
>>so the deaths from first and third stage plagues may or may not be included. 
>>
>>Which means that we really can't say anything at all about the Vilani
>>immune systems just based on that one figure.
> 
>But you have claimed --
> 
>>Not quite. The plagues caused by Vilani encounters with Terran pathogens, of
>>which the PoD was the most famous, caused over a billion deaths 
> 
>that the death rate from *all* the pathogens was somewhere between 1-2 
>billion. How sure are you of your facts? In one paragraph you're saying 
>one thing and two or three paragraphs later you are ignoring it!

Thanks for pointing that out. You're right, that's a contradiction. I've
checked the TD#20 article and it is clear that the figure of 'over a billion'
deaths only refers to those caused by the Plague of Duskir, which here is
described as being caused by conquering Terran troops at the time of the
last Interstellar War (note that _S&A_ claims that the PoD was caused by
Terran immigrants to Vilani worlds).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:39:17 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: X-boats & couriers

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Well, I rather expect that at major hubs there are a *lot* of private
> and public stations out there at the 100 dia limit. For example, if
> cargo is just "passing thru", why bother hauling it to even high orbit
> if you don't have to?
> 
> And for courier work, 100 dia limit stations make too much sense.

I see no reason why part of the actual *starport* wouldn't be out there
at the 100 dia. limit. For Starports A and B especially, it would be
pretty standard for a world with a lot of outsystem trade to have a
highport at that distance.

After all, if goods are being sent out by jump, what would be the point
of a highport in low orbit, besides the nice view? If a "standing jump"
is the standard, it would be more time efficient to have the highport at
the 100 dia limit. There is just one decelleration phase, so the trip
would be shorter, as the ship reaches a higher velocity. With a port in
orbit, you have two decellerations: from surface to port, then from port
to jump-point.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 11:52:00 EDT
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@ansyspo.ansys.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Hi all,

I believe that someone on this list had received permission to photocopy 
certain CT supplements from GDW (I know that Robots was included). Now that 
IG holds the rights, I don't know.

Any of you remember who had permission to do this?

Glenn

______________________________________________________
Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (412) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (412) 514-3118
______________________________________________________


 ----------
From: owner-traveller
To: Jory M. Earl; traveller
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell
Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 7:32AM

Other option = "Doing Without"
Other option = "Tracking down and buying a used, legit copy"

There's two.

On 19 Sep 97 at 1:42, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> Well photo-copying may be illegal, but what other options do i have?
> Sure, I'd gladly buy the stuff if they re-released it.  but they're not.


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1852
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 19 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1853



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: X-boats & couriers
Re: Trade or Sell
JTAS #27, #28 and #29
Thrust to Mass for Photon Drives
Re: Sneaky radiation effects
Why starmaps are 2d
Re: Communism in Traveller 
bandage
Re: Live Campaigns?
The Return of Space Viking
Re: Hacking gunnery-1
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Space Viking II
H. Beam Piper mailing list...
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Live Campaigns?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> Yup, Lucas Trask from "Space Vikings".
> 
> It really amazes me..I go my whole life never running into another soul
> who has even heard of that book, and now several of you on this list
> have mentioned it.
> 
> --

H. Beam Piper was an incredible author.  The only thing I find difficult
about his work (being in the computer industry myself) is his projections
of the computer field.  (sigh, I guess no one is perfect)

I have been hearing rumours for years that someone picked up the Space
Viking thread and wrote a second book.  Does anyone know if this is true?

douglas

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:25:54 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

At 02:07 AM 9/19/97 -0700, Jory Earl wrote:
>Yup, Lucas Trask from "Space Vikings".
>
>It really amazes me..I go my whole life never running into another soul
>who has even heard of that book, and now several of you on this list
>have mentioned it.

This list would preselect for it.  I have never heard it confirmed, but it
always seemed obvious to me that the 800t Merc cruiser was modelled on the
ships in Space Viking, and other Piper stories.

Of course, given that those were 2000 ft spheres, they were at least 150
MT, and might have been as large as 1.2 GT.  Piper _liked_ big.

I am trying to pick an era that would fit well with the Federation era and
the various Empire eras.  I am thinking M0 is well suited for the genteel
Federation mentioned in Little Fuzzy, while the late 1090s- early 1100s
seems more like the creaking Federation in Cosmic Computer.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:59:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: X-boats & couriers

On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Glenn Hoppe wrote:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
> > Well, I rather expect that at major hubs there are a *lot* of private
> > and public stations out there at the 100 dia limit. For example, if
> > cargo is just "passing thru", why bother hauling it to even high orbit
> > if you don't have to?
> > 
> > And for courier work, 100 dia limit stations make too much sense.
> 
> I see no reason why part of the actual *starport* wouldn't be out there
> at the 100 dia. limit. For Starports A and B especially, it would be
> pretty standard for a world with a lot of outsystem trade to have a
> highport at that distance.
> 
> After all, if goods are being sent out by jump, what would be the point
> of a highport in low orbit, besides the nice view? If a "standing jump"
> is the standard, it would be more time efficient to have the highport at
> the 100 dia limit. There is just one decelleration phase, so the trip
> would be shorter, as the ship reaches a higher velocity. With a port in
> orbit, you have two decellerations: from surface to port, then from port
> to jump-point.
> 

This brings up an interesting point...Who's in charge?

It is my understanding that the Imperium does not interfere on planets.
This is how we get the various Law Levels and Government Types from planet
to planet.

But the mainworld sets the tone for the entire system, and normally I've
played the assorted planets of the system to be offshoots from the
mainworld (and the world generation tables tend to support this
viewpoint).

But it is also my understanding that the mainworlds sway does not extend
much past the atmosphere (I generally give the world sovereignty (sp?) to
5 orbits).

This also kind of hits me at another core point.  Who builds the
starports?  I've always assumed that they are administered by the Imperium
(thus allowing for the much vaunted Imperial Extraterritorial Zone around
the port - but that may not be canon), but originally built and financed
by the planet and/or a major corporation or consortium of corporations.

So, what I'm looking for is this:

1) If we put highports out beyond 5 diameters, who administers and/or
protects them?  Do they fall under direct Imperial jurisdiction?

- -and-

2) Who is responsible for building the starports?

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:57:46 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> Well photo-copying may be illegal, but what other options do i have?
> Sure, I'd gladly buy the stuff if they re-released it.  but they're not.

The same option that law-abiding people have, just keep haunting used
bookstores, game shops and the like, maybe advertising in
rec.games.misc.forsale, and getting a copy legally.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:10:28 +0000
From: twolf@unix.tfs.net
Subject: JTAS #27, #28 and #29

Are these out yet?  I was just looking at the 1997 Product list and 
remembered that #27 was suppose to be out way back in May.  I was 
busy this summer and just realized that I haven't received any of 
these yet.  Has anyone received them?

JD
Twolf

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:41:36 -0700
From: Brad Urwiller <ravyn@ptw.com>
Subject: Thrust to Mass for Photon Drives

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCC4F3.2D462500
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I've always been a great enthusiast of Photon drives.  From the HELL system to just a simple PHOTON Array aimed Aft.  
However I've never been able to figure out the following:  How much LIGHT must be projected per TON of mass in order
to get X amount of acceleration?  Anyone know this.  I'd be very appreciative.  Also one other quick question:
can increase Surface Area for the Photon drive be replaced by a reduced SA with increased Intensity?

- ------
Brad Urwiller <ravyn@ptw.com>
    _
   \  \
  >   =8>  "Nevermore," quoth the Ravyn and nothing more.
   /_/


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:39:32 +0000
From: Tim Connors <tconnor@pop3.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: Sneaky radiation effects

At 11:09 PM 9/17/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi there.
>
>I seem to remember reading somewhere that radars on aircraft can be
>dangerous if someone was to walk in front of them while they were turned
>on (microwaves, possibly?). Is this true? If it is, then what effect
>would the hugely more powerful radar/Active EMS that are mounted on
>starships have? Would the radiation be dangerous at a range that would
>be useful in space combat (though probably severely lessened by armour),
>or would it just be a handy way of getting rid of the unfriendly natives
>without obviously shooting them? Possibly with a focussed/beam of
>radiation then you could get rid of a particular individual or group
>without killing all those present.
>
>How would a person react to getting such a high dose of microwaves etc.?
>Would they just fall down dead with no obvious cause at the time, or
>would they take seconds/minutes/hours/etc to keel over?
>
>Regards,
>-- 
>Rob
>
	It depends on the level of radiation -- get it high enough and you can
cook a live hog whole in less than a minute -- it gets quite agitated
before it keels over cooked, or so I've heard. You can do a mouse this way
in a standard microwave (quite messy) -- I believe a children's show host,
named Ghoulardi, did this in Cleveland or Detroit (moving almost
immediately thereafter to either Detroit or Cleveland). Mid-eighties, I
believe.


Tim Connors

You can't fall off of the floor -- most human beings require two years to
learn this.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:22:06 -0700
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Why starmaps are 2d

Up until 2300AD, nobody tried to push 3d space maps in games.
There were a few attempts, but they didn't work very well.
Traveller, and everyone else, just used 2-D for playability.

There is no jump physics limitation implied.  The galaxy isn't
really that thin (it's really about 600 light years thick (160 psc),
or 4 sectors "deep" by traveller standards.  The only reason for it
was to avoid giving people headaches.

- -george william herbert
gherbert@crl.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:39:51 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Communism in Traveller 

Harold Hale qrote

> Peter Newman writes:
> 
> >Have you taken a look at the government type table ?  _All_ of the
> >(Imperial) Traveller government types could be communistic and for many
> >government types it is a probable explanation.
> >
> >Government Type
> >
> >0       No Government - This could be the ultimate marxist state after
> >the state withers away.
> 
>    Which every knows is never going to happen.  Marx had his moments
> (had the Western cultures not had the ability to reform themselves, he
> would have been right about a great deal more), but in light of
> experience, many of his works read like bad science-fiction today.

It seems clear to me that this is never going to happen on Earth.  Among
the 15,000 planets in the Imperium there are going to be hundreds of
planets with government type 0 (no governmnet).  It is not improbable
that some of these planets will formerly have had another type of
government. Different cultures will experience different cultural
changes.  Therefore I believe it is possible that the Imperium might
contain a planet with government type 0 that considers itself to be
communist.
> 
>    An excellent post, but be sure that you don't confuse Socialism and
> Communism.  The former is an economic system while the later is a
> political one. 

No Communism _is_ an economic system as well as a political system and 
Socialism is a political system as well as an economic one using the
definitions used in poloitcal science and in economics.

Briefly communism (Marxist-Leninism) is the economic sytem that is
_supposed_ to occur in a communist society (a circular definition I'll
admit but blame Marx and the political scientists, not me).  This is the
sort of economic system described in Das Kapital (unreadable dreck but
thats not my point).  Socialism can be described as the set of political
beliefs that occur in countries where economic socialism is favored. 
Socialism is not a structural/functionist description of a government
similar to Traveller governmnet types but it can be a valid (but also
somewhat circular) description.

> Communists tend to espouse socialist economic policy
> (especially centralized socialism), but as we have seen in China, the
> two are mutually exclusive concepts.  Countries such as Spain, Sweden,
> and Greece on the opposite end have socialistic (semi-socialist)
> economies but are democracies.

The post was about communism.  The point I was trying to make was that
the Traveller governmnet type table does not consider ideology, but only
the nature of the government (What they call a structural/functional
analysis in Political Science jargon.)  Therefore a planet that was
nominally communist could actually have any of the Traveller governmnet
types.  I admit I had to stretch a bit more in explaining away the lower
numbered governmnet types as communistic than I did for the higher
numbered ones.  I do not think that any of my explanations strained the
system nearly as much as you have to strain it to explain why you can
have planets the size of the moon (size 2) with earthlike (type 6)
atmospheres (barring Terraforming).

>    All this brings up the question, "is the Imperium a capitalist
> society?"  True enough there is a large degree of local political
> autonomy, but wouldn't the basic priniciples under which the Imperium is
> founded tend to force member worlds to include themselves in
> interstellar trade and therefore open their markets?  It would be next
> to impossible to run a centralized, planned economy under those
> conditions.

I think that the overall body of Traveller work (canon if you will) has
established that some planets are fairly isolated from the rest of the
Imperium.  Many of the planets that adventures have occured on, for
instance, have been somewhat isolated from overall Imperial society
(they probably had to be written like this so the adventure would work
but they are still canon). The planetary governmnet runs the planet
outside of the extrality zone.  If that planetary government will not
let the people within the extrality zone they will not have any
opportunity to engage in capitalism.  If the state run Bureau of Trade
does not ever buy any goods offered in the starport that are not in the
Five Year Plan to buy or sell any goods that are not in the Five Year
Plan to sell you could have a communist planet existing in a capitalist
Imperium in much the same way that the Soveit Unions government bought &
sold things capitalistically on the international market while still
mainitaining a communist ideology.  Traders coming to the planet would
either sell goods not on the list to each other, be unable to sell them,
or be able to sell them only at low rates (to the planets government)
part of whose Five Year Plan would/could include something like "In
order to ensure needed funds to buy arms to preserve the revolution from
foreign capitalist threat the Bureau of Trade shall, at its discretion,
purchase goods not speicifically in the Five Year Plan for later
resale."

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:56:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: bandage

     Bandage Drug is actually an old item, it's written up in one of the old
 JTASes'. And it's actually a spray foam. The concept and name was actually
 taken from Larry Niven's "Known Universe" series and the Ringworld Books
 (same thing).
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:00:43 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

If I have or can find the Lord Kalvan of Otherwhere, it's yourse then.
The one with him sitting on the throne on the cover?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 16:51:00 EDT
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@ansyspo.ansys.com>
Subject: The Return of Space Viking

Hi all,

I believe that Jerry Pournelle holds the rights to develop the Piper 
universe but he has shelved the sequel for now. I suppose it is just as 
well, I never had much confidence in him creating a worthy followup.

Although, a Return of Space Viking would at least cause a reprint of the old 
Piper titles. :-)

Check out the following for more info...

http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/piper_biblio.html
http://www.Catch22.COM/~espana/SFAuthors/SFP/Piper,HB.html

Glenn

>I have been hearing rumours for years that someone picked up the Space
>Viking thread and wrote a second book.  Does anyone know if this is true?

>douglas

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:53:58 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Hacking gunnery-1

> In a message, Dartek@aol.com writes:
>  >>There are many better modern day analogies to what
>  Traveller "computer software" will probably look like,
>  without having to resort to arbitrary, wierd, handwaving
>  architectures.>  
>  Some examples are:<<

> I like handwaving.  Keeps my face cool.

Well, ok, sure, but it's not always necessary.
Somedays there are so many hands waving around this place
that I can hardly read the newspaper.

>  >> - a TV. Yep. Apparently in a TV manufactured today,
>     there's about 500K of code. su that.
>   - SAP R/3. 
>  - The software in a phone switch.<<

> Well, you can always hack the software controlling the switches actions...who
> cares about the cheesball microcode built into the switch?

Hm, I think you misunderstand. Nortel has a few hundred engineers
writing code in C, C++ and Protel that goes into phone switches
and is then shut off from the outside world. If there is no console,
not even a dangling serial port, how are you going to hack the software
controlling the switch's actions?

Also, that "cheesy microcode" is worth more than most of us will ever
be. A phone switch is pretty damn complicated. I honestly believe
that a modern, large-scale, network backbone phone switch is one of
the single most complicated monolithic artifacts ever created by 
mankind. All praise the mighy phone switch. Long live SS7.

>   >>- Flight control software in a modern jet fighter.<<
> Actually this is not firmware in the true sense of the word AFAIK.  I'l ask
> my F-18 mechanic friends about this.

I believe it depends on the plane. Civilian planes vary - some planes are
all hydraulics and wire, while others (Airbus I think) are totally fly-by-wire.
I really don't know much about military planes, except that they're probably
more complex than civilian ones.

>  >>Chances are that Gunnery-1 will come embedded in the
>  whole turret control mechanism and that you'll be about
>  as interested in copying, craking, reverse-engineering
>  or changing it as you would be in doing the same thing 
>  to the software in your pacemaker.<<
>
> Eh?  Be a pain to update it don't you think?  the military would not go for
> that.  And at least in weapon systems I think the military would be setting
> the standards.  People hack exercise machine systems, how useful is that?
>  Just becasue it serves no purpose does not mean people will not do it.

Damn straight it's a pain to update. The harder it is to update,
the harder it is to infiltrate and corrupt by your enemies. Military
systems tend to come as a package - if you want new guidance software
on your air-to-air missles, you send 'em all back to the factory.
Chances are they'll need new hardware for the new software to use anyways.

That Ariane rocket that crashed did so because of a single routine that
overflowed a floating point value. In essence, one, small subroutine
returned "10" instead of "5". You do not want to make serious, 
mission-critical software easy to change. You want to make it damn hard.

See:
http://www.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/contract/ariane/index.html

>  >>Once upon a time, people changed the tubes in their
>  radio receivers as a hobby kinda thing. One day, software
>  will disappear the same way that tubes did.<<
> 
> Or it will be replaced with people changing the firmware in their
> machines....same story, new technology.

If I can swap the ROMs in my laser turret to make it work any better 
than it did before, I'm going to take it back for a refund because
I got ripped off in the first place. Embedded software is usually
as close to optimal as possible for a given piece of hardware when 
said hardware/software combo ships. Given the pace of change in the 
Imperium and the long distribution lags, I doubt that time-to-market
is a big R&D factor like it is nowadays.

Also, the idea that someone with Gunenry-3 and Computer-3 can sit
down and write Gunnery-3 software in anything less than a decade
is silly. If someone writes new computer rules for T4, don't copy
the CT rules. They're right up there with "crazy loner scientist
creates intelligent humanoid robot while multi-trillion dollar 
R&D company has trouble working toaster" stories. Unless that's
what you're going for, of course.

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                        ehenry@magma.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:07:02 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
> Not if it is properly written. And given the millenia of experience, I
> rather suspect that the hardware *and* software will be "provably
> correct". This is done now for systems that *can't* go wrong. It's
> expensive and time consuming. But given that the basic computer
> architecture doesn't change for *centuries* (rather than every six
> months like now), this is likely the way they'd go. If for no other
> reason than to avoid being sued!
> 
> ("Provably correct" means that every possible state of the cpu has been
> checked and that the software logic and code have been thru the
> equivalent. Think of it as trying every *possible* input and verifying
> that the output is correct for those inputs. There *are* shortcuts that
> keep it from taking forever, but it is tedious.

I think that when you take into account the amount of state info
something like a pentium contains, even if you test a trillion
inputs a second, you'd still be testing your pentium until
the end of time... if you could come up with a useful, stateless
processor, you might be able to "prove" it, but with something
like a Pentium, you not only have to test each set of inputs,
you have to test each _sequence_ of sets of inputs. Yuck!

I doubt computers in the 3I will be any better.

As a reference, from this month's 'IEEE Computer', in the article
'Billion-Transistor Architectures', the following factiod is given:

  Validation and testing now account for 40 to 50 percent of
  an Intel chip's design cost, and 6 percent of the transistors
  (for built in self-test) on the Pentium Pro.

I'd wager that for any large, really critical software system
the costs will be quite similar. And after you spend 50% of
your development effort on testing, the last thing you're going
to do is let other people play around with it.

Ethan, who has no idea why he's so whipped up about this.
- --
Ethan Henry                        ehenry@magma.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:58:43 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> Also, some "tweaking" may be along the lines of "tweaking" the ROM in
> your car's engine computer. A lot of folks by the tweaked chips to
> increase performance. Of course, this also increases pollution. So the
> car makers are making it harder to mess with the chips. 

	In M0 this would be hacking the traditional Vulkan Wendelstein
	Powerplant Control Program - you can only do it on a warship,
	civilian ship allways use the standart program to avoid being
	sued because you allow a hacker that the thing go boom.

> Consider the idea that the software has been getting the bugs removed
> for several *centuries*. Having a bug show up is an *extremely* rare
> occurence. Not like the current mess where we have hardware bugs,
> firmware bugs, software bugs, and poor integration between different
> subsystems. 

	How long dos Sylea have Tl12, how many programs had to be
	rewritten to reflect this new techlevel ?

	" Of course Vulkan is proud of its stable Tl10 technologie.
	We have a classified list of problems those 200dt imperial
	destroyers have with their experimental software, and to
	make the things worth most of their bug fixes increase the
	number of bugs. The 200dt imperial destroyer is a toy and
	not a warship, better go with stable technologie if you
	want to invest in peace. "

By Michael
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:52:49 -0600
From: Jerry Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Space Viking II

At 09:05 AM 9/19/97 -0700, Douglas wrote:

>I have been hearing rumours for years that someone picked up the Space
>Viking thread and wrote a second book.  Does anyone know if this is true?
>
>douglas

I believe you are speaking of _Return of Space Viking_.

This was a project of Jerry Pournelle's (close friend of Piper), but to date
remains unfinished/unpublished. He was supposedly working from notes of
remembered conversations with Piper regarding the intended direction of
events subsequent to those set forth in _Space Viking_.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:06:18 -0600
From: Jerry Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: H. Beam Piper mailing list...

As of last year, there was a Piper mailing list. I imagine it's still active.

To subscribe:

     Send e-mail to LISTSERV@indian.dc.lsoft.com  -  in the BODY of the
message, 
     type SUBSCRIBE PIPER-L followed by your real name. 
     For example: SUBSCRIBE PIPER-L Jame Q. User


To post to PIPER-L:
 
     Send all articles to PIPER-L@indian.dc.lsoft.com


PIPER-L archives:

     To obtain a list of available file archives, send the command INDEX
PIPER-L      to LISTSERV@indian.dc.lsoft.com


List Owner:

     Nathan Brindle ( piper-l-request@indian.dc.lsoft.com )


Hope this helps others interested in Piper's works, TFH in particular.

Paul          

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:13:25 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Jerry Pournelle has the rights to write a sequel, but it's low on his
list at present.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:12:26 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

I had my Ref design me a Viking Raider..:)

Date of Preparation : 10-14-1981
Ship Name : Nemesis
Tech Level-15
Ship Type : PR (Planet Raider)
Tonnage : Y (2 million tons)
Configuration : 8
Jump : 3
Acceleration : 4g
Power Plant : 6 (3) (8.0449 agility)
Computer Model : 9
Fibre Optic Backup : yes
Crew Code : 6 (516,999)
Hull Strength : 9
Sand Casters : 416 (6), 1 (5)
Meson Screen : 9
Nuclear Dampers : 9
Force Field : 9
Repulsors : 0
Lasers : 416 (6), 1 (5)
Energy Weapons : 0
Particle Weapons : 416 (6), 1 (5) / 50 (9) bays
Meson Guns : 50 (9) bays
Missles : 416 (6), 1(5) / 100 (9) bays
Magazines : yes
Fighter Screen : Factor K; 1000 (100) fighter bays
Ship's Vehicles : 10 440-ton hangars with System Defense Boats, 15
330-ton bays with Close Escort Vessels, 20 110-ton hangars with
scoutships.
Ship's Troops : 200,000 marines
Fuel Tankage : 840,000 tons
Maximum Jumps : 6
Unrefined fuel? : yes
Cargo Hold : 112,209 tons

We had a small fleet of these made up to push Imperial presence out of
the Sword Worlds Subsector..:)
I had wanted a bigger ship, but my friend suggested that much larger
would have it's own gravity well powerful enough to prevent fighters
from being able to launch from their own tubes!

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1853
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 20 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1854



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Trade or Sell
STS 79 ?
Re: [T97#1837] Sayat
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1842
Re: bandage
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Ship Economics
Re: Live Campaigns?
Gender Roles and Aslan
Re: Why starmaps are 2d
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Legal Stuff (was...)
T4.1 Char gen (Grovel Grovel)
Re: Fusion
Re: Gurps Traveller
FSY Type S Scout/Courier upgrade; the explanation...
FSY Type S Scout/Courier upgrade
Ken't Tweaks:  Drugs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:19:34 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Bruce Johnson wrote:

The same option that law-abiding people have, just keep haunting used

> bookstores, game shops and the like, maybe advertising in
> rec.games.misc.forsale, and getting a copy legally.
>



You are missing the point.  WHEN such material becomes available to me,
regardless of what is photo-copied, I will in fact buy it.

Now if we are going to nit-pick legalities, then who's to say any of us have
RESALE rights to that material?  Is there a law that states we can?

> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:59:24 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

On 19 Sep 97 at 15:19, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> You are missing the point.  WHEN such material becomes available to me,
> regardless of what is photo-copied, I will in fact buy it.

And you are missing the point. UNTIL such material becomes available to buy, 
then you can use it.

> Now if we are going to nit-pick legalities, then who's to say any of us
> have RESALE rights to that material?  Is there a law that states we can?


Doesn't need to be.  THere are NOT laws that prohibit this behavior.

THERE ARE LAWS prohibiting photocopying copyright material without permission.


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:52:54 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: STS 79 ?

Hy folks,

	what happen to STS79 :

	 79 : 23 May : 96 OV-103-23 : SSF Flight Oppty 01

	states that Discovery's 23 flight should bring the first
	Space Station Freedoom parts in orbit.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:45:57 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: [T97#1837] Sayat

missed this one also , who or what are the sayat ??



jim

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:41:39 -0400
From: "Mike Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1842

Chris Griffen wrote;

> 
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:52:56 -0700
> From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
> Subject: Re: Live Campaigns
> 
> Harry wrote:
> 
> >As a side note, most of the players in the core group are 27 to 31 years
of
> >age. Most of us hope to teach our kids how to roleplay. Is there anyone
who
> >has done that already???? (can't wait... "dad... could you pass the d6"
hee
> >hee hee.
> 
> Well, my five-year-old daughter and three-year-old son are already
curious
> as to what the heck this Traveller pastime is all about. If I run a
session
> at my house, they insist on sitting on my lap to help roll dice.
> 
> My kids are avid roleplayers with their dolls and action figures and my
son
> loves to become Superman so he can beat the crap out "the badguy" (me),
so
> I don't think it's too much of a stretch that I might get them interested
> in playing one day.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris Griffen
> 
> ===================================================
> Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.
> 
> http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------------
> Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
> Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
> NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
This is the reason that I am currently running a very irregular game
(non-Traveller, actually we were running Battle.... uh anyway). Then just
when the T4 rules came out and I was setting up to shift to Trav. both my
sons (two of four players) decided to enlist. PROUD to say both are LCPL
right now and Uncle Sam won't let 'em come home to play games with their
Dad. By the way their Mom plays too,and my daughter (16) wants to when ever
it doesn't interfere with her social life (almost always).

Father of a proud gaming family,
Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:01:15 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: bandage

Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
> 
>      Bandage Drug is actually an old item, it's written up in one of the old
>  JTASes'. And it's actually a spray foam. 

Have you any idea what TL it was, or how much it cost per dose?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:16:59 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Ethan Henry wrote:
> 
> I doubt computers in the 3I will be any better.
> 
> As a reference, from this month's 'IEEE Computer', in the article
> 'Billion-Transistor Architectures', the following factiod is given:
> 
>   Validation and testing now account for 40 to 50 percent of
>   an Intel chip's design cost, and 6 percent of the transistors
>   (for built in self-test) on the Pentium Pro.

Well, if things are as bad as they are now in the 3I it doesn't exist...I
suspect that electronics and computer engineering will mature, and be able
to make designs that are far less error prone than the systems we have
now. By figuring out ways of doing the very testing you're talking about.
 
Look at the history of other engineering advances...after all we
_can_ routinely build bridges that don't fall down regularly, which wasn't
the case when engineering as a science was evolving in the 18th and 19th
centuries. There's columnist in American Scientist who writes regularly on
the subject of engineering, named (IIRC) Henry Petrowski. His columns are
always pretty fascinating reading.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 18:56:30 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Bruce Johnson wrote:
 
> > Well photo-copying may be illegal, but what other options do i have?
> > Sure, I'd gladly buy the stuff if they re-released it.  but they're not.
> 
> The same option that law-abiding people have, just keep haunting used
> bookstores, game shops and the like, maybe advertising in
> rec.games.misc.forsale, and getting a copy legally.


I'm not completely sure about this, but if I recall correctly, from my
business law class, photo-copying something like this is not illegal.

It's illegal if you photo-copy it and then sell it.

If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure some brave soul on the list will stomp
me down with a biting post.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:45:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Ship Economics

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> John Macpherson writes:
> 
> >	The ship owner would have a higher return, but not really that 
> >much higher.  The simple fact is that he doesn't get the ship for 40 
> >years, and the discounted present value of that ship is pretty small.  
> 
> I see. I guess that makes sense, in a completely counterintuitive way.

	It might help if you think about it like this: the present value 
of x Cr in the future is the amount of money you would have to put into 
the bank _now_ to have that much money at the given point in the future.  
If a ship is worth 25% of its origninal value after 40 years of use, and 
the owner gets title to the ship after 40 years, then the PV of a 40 
year-old ship 40 years from now is the amount of money he'd need to put 
in a comparably risky investment to thave that much money in the future.
	For a 100MCr ship, the PV of that ship 40 years in the future is 
2.91MCr (assuming 5.52% rate, a 6% rate gives 2.43MCr).  That works out 
to 11.67% of 25MCr.  You can use that percentage to figure out the PV of 
other investments that pay off after 40 years with the same interest 
rate.  To calculate it yourself, use the PV function on your 
spreadsheet.  So if your just wanted to _lease_ the ship for 40 years, 
you could knock 11.67% off the down-payment.  Of course, leases come with 
all those rules that players would object to, but some companies might 
find it advantageous to lease spacecraft, particularly in-system shuttles 
and the like that you might want for shorter periods of time or that form 
"non-core" parts of your business.

> >P.S. Note that I have revised my figure for the banks rate of return.  I 
> >discovered that I had the function set to count their loan payments as 
> >coming at the beginning of the year instead of the end, so they 
> >effectively got a discount on the ship's purchase price.  The new 5.52% 
> >figure I'm sticking to. :-)
> 
> The bank gets its payments in monthly rates (at the end of the month).
> Does that affect the figure? ;-)

	Slightly, but I don't have the patience necessary to fill in 480
cells with small monthly payments and then convert the resulting figure
from monthly to the equivalent annual rate right now.  It will increase
the return slightly to (guesstimate) 5.6% or 5.7% annual yield. The
particular number isn't very important, since it is totaly arbitrary, only
that we take one number and apply it to both bank and shipowner.  More
complicated models would give different rates to the two of them, but for
that we'd have to know a whole bunch of things about the Imperial economy
that we don't know. 
	For the purposes of monthly accounting, the ship-owner should get
the same payment schedule as the bank -- 1/240th of 1.25 times his
investment per month for 480 months. I'll let you figure out how much 
that increases the cost of freight and passenger transport :-)
 
- -JM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:18:30 -0400
From: "Mike Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

> Yup, Lucas Trask from "Space Vikings".
> 
> It really amazes me..I go my whole life never running into another soul
> who has even heard of that book, and now several of you on this list
> have mentioned it.

LOVE Piper. Giant Spherical ships with contragrav, missles, slug throwers
for small arms, contragravity airliners (that I always pictured as the
Zepplin taken to the exterme). When Trav first came out, and before GDW
started to flesh out the Imperium, H. Beam Piper was the author I based my
early games on. Nothing slicker than dropping the PC's into the "politics"
of "Four Day Planet", especially with a "Whale hunt" thrown in for good
measure!

Hmmm... Where did I store that book? Boy are they gonna love this...
heh,heh,heh.
Mike Peters

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:16:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Gender Roles and Aslan

>Well, given the fact that even genetically determined roles sometimes
>get "mixed", I'd suspect that the Aslan would have some provision for
>the (rare) male or female with the wrong "program". Most likely the
>male computer programmer would have been "ritually" made a female, and
>vice versa for the female warrior.

There might or might not be much ritual to it.

A female friend of mine (married to a male friend of mine) was crew chief at
an archeoligical excavation in Turkey about 20 years ago. There was some
trouble with the local Turkish laborers taking orders from a woman, until the
Turks decided that wearing jeans and a work shirt made her an honorary man,
and that solved the problem.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 18:18:17 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Why starmaps are 2d

At 01:22 PM 9/19/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Up until 2300AD, nobody tried to push 3d space maps in games.
>There were a few attempts, but they didn't work very well.
>Traveller, and everyone else, just used 2-D for playability.

SPI's Universe had a very nice 3d starmap of the local area.  1981 IIRC.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
|  "Avoid small projects, they leave no    |
|   mark on people's memories."            |
|   -Daniel Burnham, SF City Planner, 1906 |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:16:02 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

If it is for your OWN use, then it is not a problem, unless expressly 
forbidden.

You cannot, however, make copies and distribute to others even for the 'sale 
price' of $0.00.


On 19 Sep 97 at 18:56, Kenneth Bearden wrote:


> I'm not completely sure about this, but if I recall correctly, from my
> business law class, photo-copying something like this is not illegal.
> 
> It's illegal if you photo-copy it and then sell it.
> 
> If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure some brave soul on the list will stomp
> me down with a biting post.
> 
> Kenneth.
> 


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:03:51 -0700
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Legal Stuff (was...)

Leonard Erickson wrote mentioning the "Imperial Auditor"
in Bujold's latest Miles Vorkosigian adventure, "Memory".

To be honest, the temporary Auditor seems to exactly
match my idea of what a holder of a 3rd Imperium Imperial Warrant
is there for and can do...  

- -george william herbert
gherbert@crl.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:07:29 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: T4.1 Char gen (Grovel Grovel)

I've had a system crash and lost the file. Could some kind person
(grovel grovel) please email me a copy (word 95 if possible)

Thank you

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:00:48 -0400
From: Eric Freitas <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Fusion

At 02:11 PM 9/14/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I think you could also argue that a mere 6G's isn't enough to form
>superdense matter, so higher grav focusiong capabilities must be
>available
>from its TL onward.  Grav focusing may generate local fields that drop
>off
>precipitously.

	There are ongoing studies into high gravity chemistry and metallurgy
at institutions that house high-g centrifuges.  I remember having read about
how crystal symetries change when grown in differing g levels.  The high end
systems can generate up to (no this is not a joke, and I'll see if I can
find a reference) 50,000g's.  I don't know much about the experimental
results however.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 20:32:38 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

On 1997-09-17 12:20, Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@concentric.net> wrote the 
following:

>
>Anders Backman wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Personally I think GURPS Traveller is the best thing that has happened
>> since Striker I. Finally a combat system that is detailed and somewhat
>> consistent with other rules. Most people seem to dislike GURPS for its char
>> gen system but how that is handled is up to the ref. I like the combat
>> system and the vehicle systems a lot.
>
>To borrow a phrase, "Mega-Dittos".
>
>The only true problem I have with Gurps as a system is converting from
>"English" to metric. Hell orignal CT was in "English" measurments.

???? <Blank stare>

Where?

Granted, I don't have the original Box Of Three, but I do have a bunch of 
CT supplements, I see no English measurements anywhere (thankfully).

Scouts has got good ol' Celsius and Kilometres, High Guard has its cubic 
metres and Mercenary has got weapon and ammo weights in grams.

I don't remember ever seeing "English" measurements with respect to 
Traveller except for the planetary generation charts, where world sizes 
were listed in both miles and kilometers.

The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game why 
would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use system of 
weights and measures? 

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:41:04 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: FSY Type S Scout/Courier upgrade; the explanation...

	After taking a look at the USD for the Type S, I decided that I
could do a lot better... however, after running the numbers through James
Dempsey's Starship Assembly Line, I was amazed at just how much better I
could do.  This is a pretty funky little ship...

	I derived the price by subtracting the T4 price for a Type S and
subtracting it from the SAL price for the upgrade.

	And god only knows who Spofulam are selling the parts to :).

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:37:07 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: FSY Type S Scout/Courier upgrade

Spofulam Upgraded Scout Type S (S-U)

Tons: 100 Std (SL Wedge)	Volume: 1400 m^3		Cost: 42 MCr*
Crew: 4				High/Med Pass: 0/0		Low: 0
Cargo: 30 Std			Controls: Standard Civilian	TL: 12

08 Size					3 Jump Drive (10 Std/Pc Fuel)
1x 95Mj Light Laser (+0) 1/1-0-0-0	4 Maneuver (4G Thruster Plates,100MW)
					2 Power Plant (125Mw)
					30 Fuel (Refine 1,  Scoop 7)
					0 Meson Screen
					0 Sandcasters (0)
					0 Nuclear Damper
					A1 P2 J0 Sensors
					10 Armour, 10 Structure

Crew Detail: 1 Electronics, 2 Maneuvering and 1 Gunnery-Other.  Can be run
by skeleton crew of one.  Has 3-ton lounge/dining area.

* Plus one used Type S Scout/Courier


News Item, Sylean Shipping News, 035-16

"Famille Spofulam Yards announces Type S upgrade program

	The Type S Scout/Courier is an common sight on the Imperial space
lanes and beyond.  Its diminutive wedge-shaped hull symbolizes the
ubiquitous IISS.  As an inexpensive vessel that is jack of all trades and
master of none, it is alone in its class.  There will doubtlessly be Type
S's still serving the Imperium millenia from now.  However, while many are
available as IISS surplus, or are loaned to retired Scout personnel, the
stock Type S has been criticized on several levels; moderate performance
and range, a sensor suite that is far beyond most normal commercial needs,
and a rather inefficient use of internal space.  As a scout, it is of
moderate usefulness due to its small size; recent IISS procurements have
been aimed at larger, more capable vessels.  As a commercial vessel, its
low cargo capacity is a major failing, and as a courier, it is outperformed
by several high-performance vessels such as FSY's Moufette-Rapide class Far
Courier.

	However, this is about to change; Famille Spofulam, expanding into
another unusual niche market, has announced an upgrade program that will
convert a stock, surplus Type S into a significantly faster and
longer-ranged vessel, with increased cargo capacity to boot.  For a bill of
42 Mcr (which may vary depending on the condition of the Type S being
modified and its components) Famille Spofulam Yards will gut the ship,
reinforce its structural members, re-arrange its internal layout, and
install a 4G maneuver drive, a 3-parsec jump drive, and a modified fuel
purification system.  The result, while having more cramped living quarters
and lesser sensor range than before, also has 18 tons more cargo space.

	The first vessel to undergo the upgrade was rolled out before the
media last Fourday at a FSY press conference at their Sylean groundside
facility.  After the press had been softened up by the usual lavish buffet
and wet bar, they were ushered to viewing stands before a large hangar.
The PA system began playing Famille Spofulam's corporate anthem, that
lovely piece of 20th-century Terran industrial religious music "Jesus Built
My Hot Rod", composed by the Master, Al Jurgenson, and the hangar doors
slid open to reveal... a fairly standard-looking Type S.

	The industry press, having expected something a little bit less
prosaic-looking from a Famille Spofulam product launch, were initially
underwhelmed by the absence of ludicrously oversized spinally mounted
particle accelerator guns or large pink and chrome fins.  Even the rather
splashy black colour scheme, accentuated by stylized red and orange flames
running down the side and chromed trim, did little to arouse their
enthusiasm.

	However, as the interior tours quickly revealed, the changes made
were significant.  For one, the horribly spacewasting central cargo
compartment, with corridors running down either side, is gone.  The small
bridge of the Type S has been replaced by a two-workstation cockpit right
forwards opening onto the 3-ton lounge, which in turn is surrounded by four
small staterooms.  A rather narrow corridor leads aft to the single airlock
and the engineering spaces, which are likewise somewhat cramped; not a
cubic meter has gone to waste.  The cargo bay is emplaced asymetrically to
port, served by a single large cargo hatch on the underside of the ship.
Avionics, sensors, and commo gear, rather than being located in a single
bay, are split up into the smallest possible individual components in
various locations in the previously wasted space around the angles of the
hull.  While rendering trouble-shooting and service somewhat more
difficult, FSY emphasized that this was neccesary in order to maximize
interior space.

	The verdict?  While the cost of a refit is easily twice the price
of a new Type S, a Spofulam conversion may very well be worth the money.
The 100% increase in acceleration and extra parsec jump range are
significant for a courier vessel, and the 2-1/2 times increase in cargo
space makes for a giant improvement in the vessel's commerical viability.
For a startup courier operation, a Spofulam-converted Type S may be hard to
beat.

	When contacted for comments, Rozehkollis Aagaporniz, head of Ling
Standard's shipbuilding division and a longtime Spofulam detractor, had the
following to say: "what I want to know is what they're doing with the
maneuver and jump drives they're ripping out of those Type S's!  God only
knows who or what those demented ratbast..., er, since the lawsuit my
lawyers have advised me to describe them only as 'valued colleagues', are
selling them to.  I'm sure your average Vargr pirate would pay dearly to
get ahold of a Scout-surplus sensor system, let alone the drives!"

	When contacted with precisely this question, an FSY spokesperson
responded: "At Famille Spofulam, the protection of the environment and
careful use of valuable resources has always been a major concern; we
simply recycle the used components!"..."

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 05:51:17 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: Ken't Tweaks:  Drugs

This is the first of a two part post.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a list of drugs I put together for the player playing the 
medical officer on our ship.

I went through every Traveller item I have looking for drugs.  The 
result is this list.  It's sort of like the Physicians Desk Reference 
(for those of you who are in the medical industry) for Traveller.

Abbreviation Key:  
TB          CT's Traveller Book
T4          T4 Book 1
TC9        Traveller Chronicle #9
CSC       Central Supply Catalog
MTIE       MT's Imperial Encyclopedia
TNE        TNE main book
2300EG  Traveller 2300 Equipment Guide
MTPM      MT's Player's Manual
J13         Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #13
TD20      Traveller's Digest #20
Adv6      CT's Adventure 6
FF&S      Fire Fusion and Steel, TNE version


See part two of this post for Ken's Tweaks on detailing the equipment 
in a medical kit and depleting medical supplies.

Kenneth.
================================================================
(Unfortunately, the tabs do not hold when I post to the list.  I have 
skipped a line between each drug below for easier reading.)


TRAVELLER Drugs

The following is a list of drugs available in Traveller.  Synergy
rules can be found in TB and T4.  Overdose rules can be found on page
30, TC9.  Notes on poisons can be found on page 49 of TC9.  



TL	DRUG NAME	DESCRIPTION	CR/DOSE 	INFO LOCATION.
6	Bandage	Spray medicated bandage	Cr20	CSC

8	Fuzz	Stimulant/wound treatment/anesthetic	Cr400	CSC

6	Medical Drug	General medical drug for illness/injury	Cr100	T4, MTIE,
TB 

8	Truth Drug	Causes user to tell the truth	Cr5,000	T4, MTIE, TB

6	Truth Drug	Causes user to tell the truth	Cr5,000	TNE 

9	Combat Drug	Increases Str and End by 2	Cr750	T4, MTIE, TB 

11	Combat Drug	Increases Str and End by 1, longer	Cr750	TNE 

9	Fast Drug	Slows metabolism 60:1	Cr200	T4, MTIE, TB 

12	Fast Drug-A	Antidote to fast drug	Cr200	T4, MTIE, TB

8	Slow Drug	Speeds metabolism twice as fast	Cr500	T4, MTIE, TB 

10	Slow Drug-A	Antidote to slow drug	Cr500	T4, MTIE, TB 

7	Medical Slow	Hastens wound recovery	Cr500	T4, MTIE, TB 

15	Anagathic	Avoids aging process	Cr20,000	T4, MTIE, TB, TNE 

Anagathic	Avoids aging process	Cr85,000	2300EG

 Psi-Booster	Increases psi-str by +3 for one hour	Cr1,000	T4, MTPM,
 TB, TNE 

Psi-Double	Increases psi-str by +6 for one hour	Cr4,000	T4,
 MTPM, TB, TNE 

Psi-Special	Increases psi-str by +1 per hour	Cr10,000	T4, MTPM, TB, 
TNE

4	Pain Drug	Relief from minor pain and symptoms	Cr5 per 100	J13, TD20

6	Pain Drug	Relief from minor pain and symptoms	Cr5 per 100	TD20

8	Metabolic	Combats disease and infection	Cr1,000	J13, MTIE, TNE, 
TD20

 6	Antibiotic	Combats disease and infection	Cr50	J13, MTIE, TNE, 
TD20

 6	Antitoxin	Combats poison	Cr20	J13, MTIE, TNE, TD20

5	Vaccine	Prevents disease	Cr15	J13, MTIE, TNE, TD20

10	Vaccine	Prevents disease	Cr20	J13, MTIE, TNE

10	Vaccine-A	Anti-viral vaccine to prevent disease	Cr15	J13, MTIE, 
TNE

 8	Antiviral	Combats viruses	Cr50	TD20 10	Vaccine	Broad
spectrum	Cr100	TD20 

11	Retrovirus	Combats viruses	Cr1,000	TD20

11	Retrovirus	Specially engineered	Cr5,000	TD20 

12	Antitoxin	Broad spectrum	Cr100	TD20 

12	Retrovirus	Fast retrovirus--combats viruses	Cr15,000	TD20 

15	Retrovirus	Broad spectrum	Cr2,500	TD20 

15	Retrovirus	Specially engineered	Cr25,000	TD20

5	Tranq Spray	Tranquilizer	Cr100	MTIE

9	Tranq Spray	Tranquilizer	Cr100	Adv6

5	Whole Blood	Replaces blood	Cr100	TNE

5	Anesthetic	Local	Cr20	TNE

5	Anesthetic	Total	Cr100	TNE

6	Blood Plasma	Replaces blood plasma	Cr10	TNE

7	Atropine	Combats nerve agents	Cr50	TNE

7	Antivenin	Combats poison	Cr50	TNE

 Bounce	For low-G acclimation	Cr20 per 5	2300EG

 Herc	Increases Str	Cr100 per 10	2300EG

9	Tesseron Beta	Increases Str	1D6 x Cr50	FF&S

12	Vassopressin-Y	Increases Int	3D6 x Cr1	FF&S

11	Neural Sheath	Increases Dex	Cr30,000	FF&S

8	Adapt	Reduces fatigue due to planet/jet lag	Cr30	TC9

9	Adrenaline	Improves initiative	Cr100	TC9

 Analgine	Suppresses pain signals		TC9

 Antidote	For various drugs		TC9

9	Booster	Increases Str, Dex, End, Int, and Edu	Cr250	TC9

 Cocktails	Various mixed, tailored drugs		TC9

6	Depressants	Narcotic	Cr10	TC9

6	Europhorics	Narcotic	Cr20	TC9

6	Hallucigenics	Narcotic	Cr25	TC9

8	Diet Supp.	Substitutes diet	Cr300	TC9

10	Endorphine	Reduces effect of damage	Cr100	TC9

8	Nogee	For zero-G disorientation	Cr40	TC9

10	Pheromones	Increases personal charisma	Cr1,000	TC9

2	Circulatory P	Poison	Cr100	TC9

2	Digestive P	Poison	Cr100	TC9

3	Nerve P	Poison	Cr500	TC9

10	Viral P	Poison	Cr1,000	TC9

10	Revive	Pain killer/stimulant	Cr100	TC9

10	Hyper Slow	Slows body processes	Cr100	TC9

8	Stimulants	Reduces fatigue	Cr10	TC9

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1854
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 20 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1855



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:T4 problem ?
Re: ships
T41 Hull Designs
Ken's Tweaks:  Medical Supplies
Re: Hacking gunnery-1
Re: Communism in Traveller
Re: The Return of Space Viking
Re: Ken't Tweaks:  Drugs
Re: Why starmaps are 2d
Re: Legal stuff
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Ken't Tweaks:  Drugs
Cargo Bonds - was re: mercenary economics

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 01:47:32 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re:T4 problem ?

hello , I was attempting to design a ship useing the quick system in the
T4 book . I can't find the chart that shows jump capability . what page
is it in or was it left out .?


jim

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 01:47:33 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: ships

I need stats on a typical cruiser around 3000 tons . 
a fighter carrier would be nice also .

thanks and this should make some of you gearhead happy .

also I have room for a number of people [ about ten ] to control worlds
in a PE game . game will be ran in yearly turns via e-mail . you will be
acting as the leader of a world in the zarushagar sector year-0 . send
posts privately if interested 


jim

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 01:47:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: T41 Hull Designs

This is a description of variouls hull forms as the basis for computing
various hull dimensions.

HULL FORMS
Hulls are available in five standard forms: Sphere, Cylinder, Slab, Wedge,
Cone, and Open Frame.
Ratios of length to width (or others) are specified in these descriptions;
they may be varied in other designs.
Sphere. The hull is ball shaped (variations may be ellipsoidal).

Volume = 	(pi * diameter ^3) /6
Area = 	pi * diameter ^2

Diameter =	(6 * volume / pi ) ^ (1/3))

Cylinder. The hull is cylindrical. The ends may be flat, or they may be
hemispherical.

Volume = 	pi * length * radius ^2
Area =	(2 * pi * radius ^2) +
	pi * diameter * length
Length =	volume / (pi * radius * 2)

The standard value for diameter is the radius of a sphere of equal volume.

Diameter =	(6* volume / pi ) ^ (1/3))/2

Slab. The hull is a rectangular prism. The ends may be flat, rounded or
pointed.

Volume = 	width * length * height
Area = 	2 * ((length * width) + 
	(length * height) +
	(width * height))

The standard value for height is the radius of a sphere of equal volume; the
standard value of width is 1.5 times height.

Height =	((volume /4.17) ^(1/3))
Width = 	height * 1.5
Length =	volume / (height * width)

Wedge. The hull is a rectangular prism; essentially a slab sliced in half
diagonally.

Volume = 	width * length * height /2
Area = 	(width * height) +
	(length * height) +
	2 * (width * length)

The standard value for height is the radius of a sphere of equal volume; the
standard value of width is 1.5 times height.

Height =	((volume /4.17) ^(1/3))
Width = 	height * 1.5
Length =	2* volume /(height *width)

 Cone. The hull is a partial cylinder with a cone bow.

Volume = 	(pi * radius * length) /3
Area = 	(pi * radius ^2) +
	(pi * diameter) * length /2

The standard value for diameter is the diameter of a sphere of equal volume.

Diameter =	(6 * volume / pi ) ^ (1/3))
Length =	volume / 
	(pi * radius ^2) /3

Open Frame. The components of the ship are assembled on a frame with open
areas interspersed. The general shape is of a cylinder.

Volume = 	(pi * length * radius ^2)
	/ 1.5
Area =	(2 * pi * radius ^2) +
	pi * diameter * length
Length =	volume / (pi * radius * 2)

The standard value for diameter is the radius of a sphere of 1.5 times
volume. The total encompassed volume (but not usable volume) of the open
frame is 1.5 times the volume of a cylinder with equal tonnage.

Diameter =	1.5 *
	((volume /4.17) ^(1/3))

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:12:53 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: Ken's Tweaks:  Medical Supplies

This is part two of my post detailing my tweaks for medical supplies.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

What kinds of items are included in a medical kit?  How do you know 
when the supplies in a medical kit are used up?

These are the types of questions that I have recently answered for my 
game.  This has lead to another "Ken's Tweaks" post, in which I 
answer those questions.  You may want to use these rules, or some 
variant there of, in your game too.

I am using extended medical rules.  You can find the ones that I am 
using in issues 12 and 13 of the Traveller's Digest.  These were 
originally designed for MT, but with slight modification, they fit T4 
like a glove.  If you have these rules and are interested in the 
couple of changes I made (Ken's Tweaks) to get them compatible with 
T4, e-mail me in private.

For those of you who do not have those two excellent issues of the 
Traveller's Digest, there is a similar article in the Best of the 
Journal of the Traveller's Aide Society #3.  I don't think this 
article is near as good as the one in the TD issues, but it will 
suffice.  In fact, it looks like the article in TD12-13 was based on 
the ground work laid in that JTAS article.

Even if you don't have either of these extended medical rules for 
Traveller,  my medical supply tweak listed below can still add more 
detail to your game with the exisiting basic rules in T4.  You can 
even use these rules to backward navigate items like the TL 11 KIA, 
listed on page 7 of the CSC, to see what the cost of the item would 
be new.

And now, on to my tweaks...

Kenneth.

PS  You can find an abbreviation key in the first part of this 
post--called "Ken's Tweaks:  Drugs".
==============================================================

Medical Supply Rules			.

DETAILING A MEDICAL KIT
Each medical practitioner--whether he be a doctor, paramedic, or
nurse--has his own view of the optimal supply arrangement in medical
kits.  To determine what exact supplies are included in a medical kit,
use the price of the medical kit as a starting point and follow the
example below to detail every item.  The GM can detail a kit for its
first purchase by the character (because the kits will come supplied
in a standard way), but the character is allowed to restock his kit
anyway he sees fit.

For the example, let's detail the contents of the medkit listed on
page 73 of T4 Book 1.  In the kit's description, it states that the
kit includes a diagnostic computer, stimulants, sedatives,
antibiotics, metabolic enhancers, and metabolic reducers.  It is also
assumed that the kit includes miscellaneous supplies like surgical
tape, liquid sterilizer, scissors, medical utensils, syringes, and the
like.  

The kit's price is Cr1,000, but retailers usually price packages
cheaper than what it costs to buy all items contained in the package
individually.  Given this, the total price of all items contained in
the kit cannot exceed twice the price of the kit.  Also, the kit
itself will cost something, and a standard price for the actual kit is
10% of the retail price of the kit including supplies.

Figuring kit contents:  First, we need calculate how much we can spend
on supplies.  The kit's retail price is Cr1,000.  Given this, we can
supply the kit up to a total of Cr2,000.  

Now that we know our spending limit, we need a case to put the
supplies in.  Using the 10% rule, this case costs Cr100.  That leaves
us Cr1,900 to pack the kit with supplies.

Looking at the description, we see that kit contains a diagnostic
computer.  We'll use the TL 11 Med Microscanner listed on page 26 of
the CSC.  That costs Cr500, so we are left with Cr1,400 for the rest
of the equipment in the case.

We will need miscellaneous medical supplies.  This includes medical
tape, liquid sterilizer, syringes and other medical utensils, and
other miscellaneous items.  Standard in a medical kit of this size is
Cr200-300 worth of miscellaneous medical supplies.  We'll go with
Cr200, leaving us Cr1,200 for the rest of the kit.

The miscellaneous medical supplies account for gauze and typical
bandages.  A more high-tech version is also available in the form of
Bandage, listed on page 8 of the CSC.  We'll include five spray tubes
of Bandage in our kit.  At a cost of Cr20 each, this leaves Cr1,100 in
the kitty.

This brings us to the drugs contained in the kit.  Medical Drug,
listed on page 70 of Book 1, is a general medical drug used for a
number of applications.  This drug can be used to account for the
kit's stimulants, sedatives, and antibiotics.  The kit also includes a
metabolic enhancer and a metabolic reducer.  For these, we choose the
medical version of Slow Drug and a dose or so of Fast Drug.

Medical Drug costs Cr100 per dose.  Medical Slow Drug is Cr500 per
dose, and  Fast Drug is Cr200 per dose.  We have Cr1,100 left to
spend, and we can equip the kit with any combination of these drugs as
long as the total for each does not go over our allotted Cr1,100.

We'll include 4 doses of Medical Drug, and this will leave us with
Cr700.  Next, we'll add one dose of Medical Slow.  With the last
Cr200, we'll include a dose of Fast Drug.

And that uses up all of our allotted medical supply spending.  We now
have a complete medical kit that contains:

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
TL 8 Medkit  Wt.  8kg (listed on page 73 of T4 Book 1)

Case
4 doses of Medical Drug
1 dose of Medical Slow Drug
1 dose of Fast Drug
5 spray tubes of Bandage
Cr200 in miscellaneous medical supplies
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

The GM should take care that TL restrictions are not broken.  In this
kit, we have included a number of items from various tech levels.  The
kit, overall, is TL 8, but we've included a TL 11 microscanner and TL
9 Fast Drug.  This was done in this example because the description of
the medkit called for those items.  Normally, it is suggested that
higher-tech medical items not be included in a lower-tech medical kit.
 A higher-tech kit can be purchased, or the higher-tech items can be
purchased independently and added to the kit.  The GM will have to
make a ruling on this based on the dynamics of his game.

Also, there are a number of drugs listed in the medical drug list.  If
you have access to the Traveller materials where these items are
listed, you can detail your medical kit in various ways.  For
instance, you can detail specific antibiotics instead of using the
multi-purpose medical drug.

The rules below will explain how to use the supplies contained in the
kit.



USING MEDICAL SUPPLIES
Supplies will be used up every time the kit is used.  Miscellaneous
items like surgical tape and liquid sterilizer will be used. 
Disposable syringes will be thrown away.  Some items, like scissors,
can be broken and need replacement.  Things like drugs will also be
used, based on how bad off the injured patient is.

Drugs are used as described in the description for each drug, but
there are three items that every medical kit should
have--miscellaneous medical supplies, medical drug, and bandage spray.
 These items are used up in the following manner.

Miscellaneous Supplies:  Superficial wounds require the usage of Cr3D6
miscellaneous medical supplies.  Minor and worse wounds require the
usage of Cr2D6 x 10 supplies. 

GM's may put modifiers on these throws based on the damage to the
character.  Use a hit location chart to help decide if a modifier is
needed to increase or decrease the amount of miscellaneous supplies
used. 

At first, it seems that serious wounds would require more supplies
than minor ones, but upon further examination, it is revealed that
this is not the case.  There is only so much that can be done from the
outside, without surgery.  All that can be done with a medkit for a
bullet hole (probably a serious wound), for instance, might be the
placing of gauze on the outside of the wound to stop the
bleeding--which might be the same field treatment for a deep scratch
(probably a minor wound).

Medical Drug:  Medical Drug, also called panacea, is actually a set of
medications used for a variety of illnesses and injuries.  All medical
kits in the Traveller universe should contain Medical Drug, if only
for the drug's broad scope.

One dose of Medical Drug is required for the treatment of superficial
wounds.  Two doses are required for the treatment of minor wounds. 
Three doses are required for serious wounds, and four doses are
required, if a dead person is to be saved (under the rules on page 58
of Book 1). 

Bandage:  Miscellaneous medical supplies include normal bandages,
gauze, and other wound coverings.  Bandage is described on page 8 of
the CSC, and one spray tube is used for each wound covered by the
bandage.  The GM may alter this if the wound is very large--requiring
two or more bandage spray tubes to cover the wound.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:58:24 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Hacking gunnery-1

Moin Ethan Henry,

> Also, the idea that someone with Gunenry-3 and Computer-3 can sit
> down and write Gunnery-3 software in anything less than a decade
> is silly. If someone writes new computer rules for T4, don't copy
> the CT rules. They're right up there with "crazy loner scientist
> creates intelligent humanoid robot while multi-trillion dollar 
> R&D company has trouble working toaster" stories. Unless that's
> what you're going for, of course.

	To cite " The Tar Pit " (c) F.P.Brooks,Jr

	" Why then have not all industrial programming teams been
	replaced by dedicated garage dous? One must look on what
	is being produced "

	To adopt his book to Traveller :

	While the fast hacked gunnery-1 program you installed on
	your ship, is just a patch taking the special circumstances
	of your ship and this one laser & beam pointer combo into
	consideration, the gunnery-1 program you can buy is an
	industrial product, which is able to provide a DM+1 for
	ANY TL12 laser turret on ANY ship and ANY rotation.

	Taking my knowledge (my largest 68K assembler program was 15KB
	binary and was producing Daimlers for 3 years, my largest C++
	program is 560KB source excluding documentation) I know that
	a single human has a maximum of code he can understand. The
	mentioned C++ program is beyond this size since 2 years.
	I never found the time to write a third version ;-(

	To adopt to Traveller :

	If I look at the rules for "programing" and time involved for
	a programing task like predict-[1-3], I have to asume that
	"programing" is more fine tuning of the existing programs.
	If you take a look at xephem, xsky or starchart and their
	complexity you have to agree.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 02:06:14 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Communism in Traveller

Moin Peter Newman, 

	first of all I think that most of the systems in the human
	populated 3I are kapitalist ones, because in a chaotic system
	( like economie ) kapitalism is quite more effective than
	the typical 5 year plan you see in "real existing bullshit"

	On the other hand side, I have lived in a commune called
	Finkenburg for 3 years and we started with 8 people and
	-80.000DM and now have about 60 people and 2.500.000DM
	investment last year, several buildings, companies and
	a bank we founded with a dozend other communes called
	the "Project (A)".

	Anarcho Syndicalism is much more effective in the chaos called
	economie, because decissions are spontanous made by the people
	who are doing "the real work" (TM). Compare the effecivity of
	the Linux development with that of M$, with that of a plan team
	like ANSI.

	On the other hand side you have the long vilani tradition in
	slow progress and long plans for interstellar economie. So
	while planet governments are most times like US or Europe
	trying to increase their tech level as fast as posible, the
	3I burocrathy is more like china "allways on the save side,
	planing the water,the roads and bridges for the next generation".
	China was invaded several times (the last invasion was MaoTseTung)
	but non of those invaders was able to change the burocrathy.
	And the burocrathy prefers to have a stable emperor, so that they
	continue their work.

> It seems clear to me that this is never going to happen on Earth.  Among
> the 15,000 planets in the Imperium there are going to be hundreds of
> planets with government type 0 (no governmnet).

	For me law0/gov0 systems are more a kind of anarchy than
	that they are communtists.

	About "Das Kapital". Its neither unreadable, nor dreck, it
	was a correct theory of that time. Of course politcans and
	capitalism also read and understand it, so history changed
	and the "automatic breakedown" didnt happen - or was WW I&II
	this breakdown ?

	Back to Traveller (tm) : World Tamers Handbook (TNE) pg41

	Output roll : Die Modifier

	* Controlled Economy, DM -1 (see side bar)

	So there are "comunist" in the charted space, but they are
	not as effective. Communism is so a "canon" kind of economy ;-)

	Did you ever heard about SNAFU princip, exactly this happen
	not only in military but also in any plan economy.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:40:47 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: The Return of Space Viking

Glenn Myers wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I believe that Jerry Pournelle holds the rights to develop the Piper
> universe but he has shelved the sequel for now. I suppose it is just as
> well, I never had much confidence in him creating a worthy followup.
>
> Although, a Return of Space Viking would at least cause a reprint of the old
> Piper titles. :-)
>
> Check out the following for more info...
>
> http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/piper_biblio.html
> http://www.Catch22.COM/~espana/SFAuthors/SFP/Piper,HB.html
>
> Glenn
>
> >I have been hearing rumours for years that someone picked up the Space
> >Viking thread and wrote a second book.  Does anyone know if this is true?
>
> >douglas

I spoke with Mr. Pournelle about that sequel a few months ago, (I think it was
June), and he stated it was still a project but had been shelved for right now.
The man has about a thousand projects all going on.  :)  It may be some years
before we see a sequel, if indeed we ever do.


- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:02:03 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Ken't Tweaks:  Drugs

If you read the "Dumarest of Terra" novels, you'll find tons of
references to "Traveller".  They talk about High and Low passage, Slow
and Fast drugs, Psionics, blade combat, etc..

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 04:55:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: Re: Why starmaps are 2d

George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com> wrote,

>Up until 2300AD, nobody tried to push 3d space maps in games.
>There were a few attempts, but they didn't work very well.
>Traveller, and everyone else, just used 2-D for playability.
>There is no jump physics limitation implied.  The galaxy isn't
>really that thin (it's really about 600 light years thick (160 psc),
>or 4 sectors "deep" by traveller standards.  The only reason for it
>was to avoid giving people headaches.

I agree with most of your points - but I think your 600 ly figure refers
only to the "Thin Disc", which is just the middle layer of the Galaxy (the
cream in the Oreo, as it were). Here are some stats I lifted from Henbest &
Couper's wunnerful book, _A Guide to the Galaxy_:

- ------------------
Galactic Disc: ~100,000 light years across. In cross-section, can be
divided into three nested regions:
   Thick Disc: Intermediate-age stars between Pop'n I & II: ~4000 ly thick.
   Main Disc: contains most of the stars. ~2000 ly thick.
   Thin Disc: central plane, ~500 ly thick, contains Sol & most of the gas
& dust.

Sun is ~6.1 kiloparsecs (20,000 ly) from Galactic centre.
   Suns's orbit about Galactic centre: ~240 million years.
   Sun's 'apogalacticon' (farthest point): 107% of current distance.
   Sun's 'perigalacticon' (nearest point): 99.5% of current distance; the
Sun will reach this point in ~15 million years.

Sun is now ~50 ly (15.34 pc) above Galactic midplane.
   Maximum height: 250 ly above, in ~14 million years.
   Maximum depth: 250 ly below.
   Crosses midplane every 33 million years.
- -----------------

You're right that the game maps are flat only because it's convenient -
just as it's more convenient to constrain the stars to a hex grid.

However, early last year Glenn Hoppe came up with a nicely elegant (if
non-canonical) explanation for the flatness of the Traveller starmaps,
suggesting that JumpSpace effectively collapses the Galaxy's third
dimension. I liked this concept a lot, and elaborated on it extensively. I
decided that the Galaxy has many JumpSpace Planes, layered one above the
other, separated by thinner SlowSpace Planes, where jump travel is
impossible.

A really nice spinoff of all this furious handwaving is that you can have a
somewhat 3D campaign, while retaining the convenience of 2D maps. Each
Plane is a discrete flat map; but certain massive stars (4+ Solar masses)
warp Planes to create "Jump Bridges" connecting the planes. Galactic
politics and history in this game universe often revolve around control of
these Jump Bridges, and the multiple levels provide a sense of realistic
three-dimensionality without all the hassle of a 3D coordinate system (a la
2300). On average, there's about one bridge star for every two subsectors,
maybe more.

Obviously these ideas all useless if you are running a campaign set in the
canonical Imperium universe. Fortunately, my campaign is almost entirely
non-canonical, set in a future history of my own. For anyone who might be
interested, here's a Library entry on JumpSpace Planes, just recently
written up:

jumpspace - A hyperspatial region on the border of Hilbert Space where the
known laws of physics do not apply, and faster than light travel is
possible. Theorists cannot agree whether jumpspace actually exists as an
actual continuum, or if it is only a phenomenon generated by jumpdrives.
     Jumpspace is not accessible everywhere. Gravity chaotically distorts
the geometry of jumpspace; thus jumpdrives cannot be safely engaged within
about 100 diameters of a star, planet, or other large mass. As a corollary,
however, jumpspace is also made possible by very large, rapidly rotating
masses, such as the ultra-massive black hole at the Galactic Core. The Core
singularity generates a multi-layered complex of regions, known as
jumpspace planes, where jumpspace is accessible, surrounded by regions of
slowspace, where jump travel is not possible. Each plane radiates outward
from the Core.
     Only the central Galactic Midplane is actually flat; the planes above
and below it follow the surfaces of shallow paraboloids. In the Orion Arm,
each plane is about ten parsecs deep. The planes thicken toward the Core,
thus overlapping to create one very deep jump region, providing access to
all planes. Towards the Rim, the planes become thinner, eventually
disappearing; they also gradually radiate farther away from each other. The
regions between each plane are slowspace, inaccessible to any known jump
drive. Fortunately, in the Orion Arm the jump planes are close together,
separated only by about 1pc of slowspace.
     Extremely massive stars (generally O, B, and some A type stars) warp
jumpspace enough to create a slight thickening of the plane - just enough
to cause it to overlap with an adjacent plane. Such jump bridges are of
prime strategic importance; they are the only conduits in the Orion Arm for
FTL travel between jump planes. The bridge stars nearest to Sol are
Fomalhaut, which links the +1 Plane to the Galactic Midplane, and Arcturus,
which bridges the +1 and +2 Planes.
     For the purposes of FTL travel, jumpspace is effectively flat: within
each plane, the three dimensions of n-space are collapsed into two. Thus
two stars which appear only one parsec from each other on a map of
jumpspace may acttually lie ten parsecs apart in n-space.
     FTL civilizations to Rimward, in the Perseus Arm, are confined to thin
jumpspace planes, sparsely populated with few accessible stars. Mature
galactic civilizations, on the other hand, inevitably migrate Coreward to
the Sagittarius Arm, where the planes overlap and become a single jumpspace
region, over 1000 pc deep.

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
"Nature abhors normality. It can't go too long without a mutant."
                        --Dr Blockhead

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:06:00 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Legal stuff

Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>Bujold introduces us to a "new"
>feature of the Barrayan empire. The "Imperial Auditor". Think of a
>cross between an Inspector General and a double-0 agent. Sort of like a
>"Special Prosecutor". These are the folks the Emperor sends when he
>wants *answers*. The have the authority to do just about *anything*.
> 
>There are permanently appointed ones, and a provision for "temporary"
>ones. The "temps" only serve for one investigation.
> 
>I *like* the concept. And I think it'd fit nicely into the Imperium. 

In that case you may like  to see my list of ranks  for the Imperial 
Ministry of Justice:

HOUSE RULE WARNING! Note that in my Imperium rank 010 level corresponds 
more or less to the equivalent rank on Earth today, which is why I feel 
the need for several more rank levels to account for multi-planet, 
subsector, sector, domain, and Imperium levels. I have ranks for all the 
Imperial services worked out, but since I posted them a few months ago 
in connection with my general economics rules, I won't repost them all
right now.

Imperial service, Year 1105:

Rank    Pay  Diplomats            Justice agent 

O1      600  3rd Secretary        Deputy Agent/3rd   
O2      800  2nd Secretary        Deputy Agent/2nd
O3     1100  1st Secretary        Deputy Agent/1st
O4     1400  3rd Attache          Agent/3rd*           (Low-pop planet)
O5     1700  2nd Attache          Agent/2nd*           (Medium-pop planet)
O6     2000  1st Attache          Agent/1st*           (High-pop planet)
O7     2400  Vice Consul          Vice Director*      
O8     2800  Consul               Director*           
O9     3200  Consul General       Director General*
O10    3600  Envoy                -
O11    4000  Minister             Special Agent**        
O12    4500  Ambassador           -
O13    5000  High Ambassador      Special Investigator** 
O14    6000  Grand Ambassador     -

* There is a Ministry of Justice agent on most worlds in the Imperium except
those with the very lowest populations; the number of deputy agents varies 
a lot with the importance of the world. There are also a number of 'floating'
agents. A vice-director is in charge of all agents in a subsector; a director 
is in charge of all agents in a sector; and the Director-General is in charge 
of all agents Imperium-wide.

** A Special Agent reports directly to the Minister of Justice. A Special 
Investigator holds an Imperial Warrant and reports directly to the Emperor.

In Year 0 there would be no High or Grand Ambassadors and MoJ special agents
and investigators would be O10 and O11 respectively.
                                 



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:18:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Once upon a time, when D&D was still new, just about everyone at GDW made
aphotocopy of the basic D&D books because they were not yet available in
evnough volume for everyone to have their own copy.

Once the sets became available, we all went out and bought them and discarded
the photocopies... which were just inferior.

If someone makes a photocopy for his or her own use, that is called fair use,
as long as it's not the whole product, and as long as its not for resale.
That includes copying someone else's copy of the product.

That is especially true if the product itself is not currently available (ie
CT or Mt, probably not for T4).

When someone starts photocopying multtiple copies for others, then it gets to
be infringement.

Personally, if you want a specific work which isn't in print and you can get
a photocopy, I think that's OK.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 04:22:37 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Ken't Tweaks:  Drugs

Jory M. Earl wrote:
> 
> If you read the "Dumarest of Terra" novels, you'll find tons of
> references to "Traveller".  They talk about High and Low passage, Slow
> and Fast drugs, Psionics, blade combat, etc..

Who wrote it?  When was it published?

Sounds neat.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:37:10 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Cargo Bonds - was re: mercenary economics

Hans wrote:
>If the ship is going into dangerous territory it may not be possible to get
>insurance. You'd have to work out with the owner how much he should get to
>put the ship in danger. An agreement to replace the ship if it is lost
>should always be sufficient, but can become very expensive (and require
>a LARGE bond!).

I wrote this a while ago. I was going to try and work something in on
insurance as well, but haven't had a chance to get around to it yet. Any
suggestions appreciated:

Cargo Bonds (M0).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The corporate executive looked at the grizzled old trader from the battered
ship sitting before him at the table. In the dark of the starport tavern
booth the bearded starship captain looked more than a little disreputable,
almost piratical. The executive shuddered. What if the precious cargo of
electronic components from the new manufacturing plant were to be 'lost'?
It'd bring the company down, with all the investment tied up in the R&D
prototypes. Without them there was no business, no deal with Naasirka, and
no enormous personal profits from selling the company. But the price was
right, and more importantly, it was the only ship that had cargo space
available and was willing to travel to the destination...

She shook hands with the ships' captain and then, looking him straight in
the eye, said, "I think we agree on price and timescale, Captain. Now about
the cargo bond..."

- ----

Cargo Bonds.
===========

Zhunastu Industries development of Fusion+ and the deployment of fighter
craft has vastly reduced the incidence of piracy within the borders of the
Third Imperium. The Imperial Navy is now capable of rapidly and effectively
neutralising pirate activity once it is reported.

However, before these developments pirate activity wreaked havoc throughout
the Sylean Federation. Insurance companies refused to cover losses to
shipping and cargo, throwing into doubt the the future of interstellar
trade. Naturally, the Federation government was extremely concerned at the
potential damage to the economy, and acted in two ways. The Navy was
ordered to increase patrol levels, and legislation was instigated to ensure
that merchants could obtain insurance cover.

Surprisingly, the first attempt to legislate was blocked by vested
interests within the Federation from within the merchant classes
themselves. Many of them had significant investments in the insurance and
finance industries, and the proposed compulsary insurance schemes made them
distinctly nervous. The lack of confidence that this demonstrated in the
Navy's ability to persecute a campaign against the pirates  demonstrated
the true magnitude of the problem facing the Sylean Federation.

A second piece of legislation was passed extremely rapidly, giving cargo
owners the rights to demand a security bond in case of loss of cargo, or
even late delivery. The bond would be held in trust by the Port Warden at
the loading port, and only released once confirmation of cargo delivery was
received. This legislation performed two things - it transfered the risk of
cargo shipment to the shipowner, and made company's more confident at
engaging in interstellar trade.

With no scale of acceptable fees, several companies sought to manipulate
the market by setting exhorbitant bonds, forcing competitors out of
business or passing trade to prefered ship owners. After a few months, an
unofficial code was adopted by many of the ship owners on Sylea who refused
to be held to ransom by the corporations.  This code spread throughout the
Federation, and was generally adopted within a few years, being in the
interest of the ship owners. Those that did not accept the code were
treated as pariahs by their peers, and soon either ceased trading or were
absorbed by the corporations.

Today, with the increased security of the Imperial Core, the need for the
bond is increasingly being questioned by the traders and merchants. Several
of the larger financial corporations have expressed interest in re-entering
the cargo insurance market, and it is unknown how long the bond will be
commonplace in the Imperium. Indeed, sources close to the Iridium Throne
have indicated that the Cargo Bond will be one of the areas of previous
Federation law covered in the current review. However, the Cargo Bond is
still applicable to the frontier regions, and in some cases the shipowner's
code is being challenged by corporations eager to ensure that they receive
an adequate return on any lost shipping.

====

Cargo bonds (rules):

The Shipowner's Code limits the maximum bond to 100% of the cargo value.
Usually values of around 10 to 20% are used in the Core regions. In
frontier regions, cargo owners may demand higher surieties. Whether they
are accepted by the shipping captain is another matter!

Initially, the bond was a cash or other guaranteed sum placed with the Port
Warden at the port of departure. The bond would not be released until
confirmation of shipment was recieved, although it could be transfered to
another cargo. In M0, the bond is often backed by Megacorporate surieties,
and it is likely that this is the market out from which the shipping
insurance will redevelop. However, shipowners will still have to find the
initial bond value, or agree a staggered payment scheme. Skipping a
staggered payment scheme could lead to severe legal repurcussions if the
cargo owner finds out.

Plotlines:

The players have to supply a large bond to cover an expensive (but
lucrative) cargo. How do they get the money?

The players are accused of failing to deliver a cargo, and a claim is made
against their bond...

Notes:

These laws become obselete as the Imperium matures!

Dom



- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1855
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 20 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1856



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Starports
SurSat Brochure (courtesy of Maakeseni Iigasshur LIC)
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Chemical engines
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Thrust to Mass for Photon Drives
Re: Chemical engines
Re: X-boats & couriers
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Ken't Tweaks:  Drugs
Assault Lawyer?
Rob's House Sensor Rules (did I post these?)
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Mir
Re: Firearms in Vacuum
Re: Assault Lawyer?
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Gurps Traveller
Dummarest revisited...
Re:T4 problem ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:55:48 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Starports

(50,000gs - Yeek!)

Who builds the Starports? 
Good question. Here's one answer.

The Imperium of M0 is expanding fast. The cost of building class C ports is
astronomical (pun not intended; probably not even present). So the Imperium
grants licenses like the one given to SDC in my own campaign (Sylean
Development Corporation)

The deal is this: SDC buys the rights to open up Darvli Ga, which is a TL3
world in Lishun Sector, about 20 years' worth of expansion out from the
Imperial border. 

SDC handles the contact, trade etc - the locals have a marked field, so
they've at least had visitors before.

SDC sends a 'seeder colony' of perhaps a thousand colonists with some F+
and equipment to set up a little community - but not to take over, no sir. 

The colonists will set up a minor port (D class), and gradually integrate
with local society - showing the benefits of high-tech living etc to the
locals. This is done subtly, over a period of 20 years. Gradually starships
begin to use the port, trading with the locals through the colonists and
their local allies - who gain an significant economic advantage. The port
is slowly upgraded, the locals subtly manipulated to like the idea of being
part of an interstellar 'family' - this only works with basically peaceable
locals who are reasonably receptive - other approaches are used in other
circumstances)

By the time the Imperial border 'catches up', the world of Darvli Ga is in
a state of rapidly progressing technology (OK, TL4  still, but improving),
has a society eager to integrate and gain more of the benefits of this
higher tech, with a Class C port defended by Corporation mercenaries and
local sepoys. 

The Imperium gains a new world (which isn't very valuable yet but is on the
way to becoming so), and a decent starport. SDC gets the chance to make
money from operating the Starport (it's still Imperial territory and the
Imperium will take a percentage), plus revenue from the planetary
industries, which by not they just about own.

I.e.: Private concerns, noble families - anyone with money and a good
record - can build a Starport. They'll have to pay out to the Imperium, but
what a source of revenue! The Imperium still retains certain controls, and
will build ports at its own expense too. But this seems to be one way of
lowering the cost....

What's anybody think?

Martin

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 1997 12:45 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: SurSat Brochure (courtesy of Maakeseni Iigasshur LIC)

Maakeseni Iigasshur LIC thanks you on the purchase of your
new SurSat(tm), one of the handiest world survey budget 
satellites available anywhere!  Its quality craftmanship
and 1-year comprehensive warranty insures that you, as
buyer and owner, will be able to make full use of SurSat's
features, including:

	* Low-bandwidth orbital telecommunications 

	* Weather observation

	* World surface survey

	* Orbital object identification and tracking (OIT)

	* User Interface

Let's take a glance at each of these features.

The SurSat has an orbital-range communications module, capable
of handling multiple simultaneous channels.  The actual number
of channels is equal to your SurSat's _CommSat module number_.

The SurSat has temperature and other atmospheric logic modules
for determining local and global weather patterns.

The SurSat has variable granularity telescopic lenses, capable
of surveying a world in as fine a detail as you like.  If you
place your SurSat at an optimal orbital range (varies with 
planetary characteristics), the Type XK.1a Survey Module will perform 
according to the following table (error rate <= 0.01):

Type XK.1a Survey Module Time Performance (approx)

Detail  	Swath		Time		
- -----------------------------------------
10cm		10km		100 days
1m		100km		10 days	
10m		1000km		1 day
100m		10000km		2 hours 

(NOTE: multiply world survey times by World Size)

The SurSat has an AI module which can identify, examine, and track
predefined objects in orbit and relay telemetry data back to your ship.
The number and complexity of such objects which your SurSat can 
handle depends on your SurSat's _OIT module number_.

Finally, the SurSat has a command interface for direct control
via your ship's computer.

Once again, Maakeseni Iigasshur LIC thanks you on the purchase of 
your new SurSat(tm), one of the handiest world survey budget
satellites available anywhere!  May it provide you with years of
faithful and valuable service!

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:56:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

In mail you write:

> Yup, Lucas Trask from "Space Vikings".
>
> It really amazes me..I go my whole life never running into another soul
> who has even heard of that book, and now several of you on this list
> have mentioned it.

Drive into Portland and check out Powell's Books. They have a fair
amount of Piper's stuff on the shelves in the SF section.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:47:54 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> 
>> > 
>> > Ever hear the *real* story behind the "engine that runs on water"
>> > stories? 
>> 
>> No!!! (standing here tapping my foot impatiently)
>
> Isn't that the scam where acetalyne (sp.) was used?  Works, but gives the
> engine a lifespan measured in hundreds of miles?

Actually, acetylene dissolved in acetone. And yeah, it's a short but
merry ride.

It's also a *classic* example of how to pull off a scam, even though it
failed. File off the serial numbers and use it on your players. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:57:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

In mail you write:

> H. Beam Piper was an incredible author.  The only thing I find difficult
> about his work (being in the computer industry myself) is his projections
> of the computer field.  (sigh, I guess no one is perfect)

Well, he also assumed that energy weapons would take a *long* time
before they came into existence...

> I have been hearing rumours for years that someone picked up the Space
> Viking thread and wrote a second book.  Does anyone know if this is true?

Sort of. Jerry Pournelle knew Piper when Piper was still alive, and got
permission to set stories in Piper's universe. He's been working on
"Return of Space Viking" (working title) for years. When it'll come out
is anyone's guess.

I'm waiting for the sequel to "Great King's War" (which is a sequel to
"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen").

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:56:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thrust to Mass for Photon Drives

In mail you write:

> I've always been a great enthusiast of Photon drives.  From the HELL system 
> to just a simple PHOTON Array aimed Aft.  

Do realize that the HELL system uses the lasers to vaporize reaction
mass. This takes a lot less energy than using pure photon pressure.

> However I've never been able to figure out the following:  How much
> LIGHT must be projected per TON of mass in order to get X amount of
> acceleration?  Anyone know this.  I'd be very appreciative.

The momentum of a photon depends on the wavelength. You need to use
planck's constant. I think the formula is p=h/v (p=momentum,
v=wavelength, h=planck's constant). So that tells you how many photons
you need. The energy of a photon is given by a similar formula.

But the problem is that the energy in a beam of photons that'll give
one ton of thrust is enough to carve up asteroids with. It's a bit
impractical. 

> Also one other quick question: can increase Surface Area for the
> Photon drive be replaced by a reduced SA with increased Intensity?

The thrust is dependent on the *number* of photons. So it'll take the
same *energy* either way. And making it narrower is going to increase
the energy density (which is already astronomical!).

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:28:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Chemical engines

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Ever hear the *real* story behind the "engine that runs on water"
>> stories? 
>
> No!!! (standing here tapping my foot impatiently)

Back in the 20s or 30s, this guy approached the Navy Department with
this "fuel additive" that'd let engines run on water. He wanted a lot
of money. So they demanded a demonstration. He came to the test with a
small container of the additive. He was given a bucket of water, and
added the additive to it. Then he poured it into the tank of the engine
on the test stand. The engine ran. The bureacrats were impressed. But
he wanted a *lot* of money. 

He had to given another demo before higher ranking officials. Same
routine, same results.

They *finally* call in a technical expert. He listens to what they say
about the inventor, then tells them what the guy is using. He also
suggests that they have the engine used in the test torn down and
examined. They do so and it's pretty messed up. 

The inventor shows up, and the techinal expert confronts him. Exit
inventor, hopes dashed.

What was the "additive"? Acetone with acetylene dissolved in it.
Acetone will hold an *enormous* amount of acetylene, especially under a
bit of pressure. Even mixed with water, it'll burn. But it burns *hot*.
And between the heat and the water, it'll quickly *ruin* an engine. The
inventor knew it wasn't workable, but he was trying to get them to pay
money before they figured it out. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 22:24:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: X-boats & couriers

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Well, I rather expect that at major hubs there are a *lot* of private
>> and public stations out there at the 100 dia limit. For example, if
>> cargo is just "passing thru", why bother hauling it to even high orbit
>> if you don't have to?
>> 
>> And for courier work, 100 dia limit stations make too much sense.
>
> I see no reason why part of the actual *starport* wouldn't be out there
> at the 100 dia. limit. For Starports A and B especially, it would be
> pretty standard for a world with a lot of outsystem trade to have a
> highport at that distance.
>
> After all, if goods are being sent out by jump, what would be the point
> of a highport in low orbit, besides the nice view? If a "standing jump"
> is the standard, it would be more time efficient to have the highport at
> the 100 dia limit. There is just one decelleration phase, so the trip
> would be shorter, as the ship reaches a higher velocity. With a port in
> orbit, you have two decellerations: from surface to port, then from port
> to jump-point.

Well, the highport in a "high" (synchronous?) orbit has advantages of
its own. Travel times from the surface are shorter, and you'd want some
stuff there as part of the comm network.

Depending on the model of jump you use, there may or may not be good
reasons for jumping from different places 100 dia. out. The way I see
it, you keep your velocity (relative to *anything*) when you jump. So
the best place to jump from depends on the relative velocity of the
system you are jumping to. And incoming ships might have a fair bit of
velocity to get rid of after jump.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 03:48:42 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Thank you Marc.  And as to selling photocopies, hehe, I don't know
anyone who would pay money for those.  That's like getting newspapers
out of the garbage to re-sell to people the next day..:) Who'd want
them?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 03:55:23 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Ken't Tweaks:  Drugs

E.C. Tubb wrote the "Dumarest of Terra" novels, where he is looking for
the world of his birth, "Terra".  the Cyclan (a bunch of remorseless
humans with no emotions) are after him the whole way because he carries
a rare genetic chemical that allows a person to take over another's
body.

There are around 20 or so books in the series, all good reading.  Earl
Dumarest is the main character, who prefers fighting with knives.  He's
a no BS, common-sensical hero type.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 1997 18:05 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Assault Lawyer?

Fellow Travellers,

I just read about Douglas Berry playing an "assault lawyer".  
This sounds fun... perhaps Douglas could post or email more
detailed information, in case someone wanted to do this too?

Thanks,
Rob

------------------------------

Date: 18 Sep 1997 17:52 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Rob's House Sensor Rules (did I post these?)

I thought I posted these, but since nobody commented on
them they were either 

	1) ignored
	2) so well-received they needed no mention
	3) didn't get posted

So, without further ado-do, here I go again.

- -----------

I was driving back towards work after lunch, and thought about
July's Traveller meeting.  There were only four of us,
so I decided to just do some ship combat for fun.  It took
forever, because none of us remembered how we did it last
Spring and we hadn't touched ship combat in the sessions
between.

What did us in was the sensor lock + to-hit determinations.
Too much stuff, and with seemingly random significance.  I
fondly remembered Classic Traveller, which didn't worry about
things like sensors.  But then I realized that sensor skill
and sensor packages SHOULD make a difference.  Then I started
wondering how I would design ship combat... (wavy fuzzy lines
denoting "mind's eye" perspective):


Dice to Roll == Range Band (VC=1, C, M, L, VL=5)
Target #     == Ship size class

And of course, an exceptional success (all 1's) is a success, no 
matter how low the target # is... and an exceptional failure 
(all 6's) is still a failure, no matter how high the target #...


SENSOR LOCK:
- ------------
+ sensor skill
+ active sensor rating
- - evader's jam sensor rating
- - evader's current max G rating


Examples:
- ---------
Attacker	Defender	  Range	Dice	Target #
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sensor-2,A2	1000-ton, J8, 6G  M	3	9 + 2 + 2 - 8 - 6 = -1 (2)
sensor-2,A2 	1000t, J8, 6G	  C	2	9 + 2 + 2 - 8 - 6 = -1 (2)
sensor-4,A8	100t, J2, 2G      M	3	8 + 4 + 8 - 2 - 2 = 16-
sensor-4,A8	100t, J2, 2G	  C	2	8 + 4 + 8 - 2 - 2 = 16- (11-)



WEAPONS FIRE:
- -------------
+ gunnery skill
+ (anything else?)
- - what?  (I don't have the book with me)
  (max G?  Can you outrun a laser?)


Examples:
Attacker	Defender	Range	Dice	Target #
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
gunner-2	1000t		M	3	9+2 = 11-
gunner-2	1000t		C	2	      11-
gunner-4	100t		M	3	8+4 = 12- (11-)
gunner-4	100t		C	2	      11-


Implications of this Unamended House Rule:
- ------------------------------------------
Close and Very Close range, without significant negative DM's,
are almost guaranteed to work.  Is this realistic?  If not,
then would a simple fix solve the problem, such as adding one
die to roll for each range band?


Rob

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:12:55 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

On 20 Sep 97 at 5:18, CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> Personally, if you want a specific work which isn't in print and you can
> get a photocopy, I think that's OK.

Are you still the rights holder and officially granting permission?  Or are you just 
offering opinion?

If the first, then great!.  If the second, then you are wrong...it is still a violation of 
copyright until MANY YEARS from now the copyright expires and the work falls into the 
public domain.

Unfortunately, because of who you are, people reading this will take it as sanctioned.


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:12:55 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

You need to study analogies, this is the second you've made that is unrelated.

Newspapers would be old and outdated, but would still be the original and if someone COULD 
find a buyer, then that is perfectly legal.

Photocopies are still viable and wanted, but would be copies and if someone found a buyer, 
then that is illegal.

I've written to Marc to clarify whether he is still the rightsholder of the work in 
question and is giving express permission to make the copies.

On 20 Sep 97 at 3:48, Jory M. Earl wrote:

Date sent:      	Sat, 20 Sep 1997 03:48:42 -0700
From:           	"Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Organization:   	GOC Systems
To:             	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject:        	Re: Trade or Sell
Send reply to:  	traveller@MPGN.COM

> Thank you Marc.  And as to selling photocopies, hehe, I don't know
> anyone who would pay money for those.  That's like getting newspapers out
> of the garbage to re-sell to people the next day..:) Who'd want them?
> 
> --
>                               The J-Man
>                              GOC Systems
>                            j-man@iname.com
> 
> 
> 


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 97 16:13 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Mir

In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970918185954.38372f34@mail.hooked.net>

Douglas,

> >The two Russians and one American on board the station are
> >reportedly terrified beyond lucidity.
>                              ^^^^^^^^
>  
> Of course!  Shannon left *months* ago....

*THWAP!*
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 97 16:13 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970918152923.1780B-100000@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>

Bruce,

> Well, no, a bullet is not a lifting body, and in a gravity field follows
> a ballistic path, ie: if you fire a rifle with zero elevation, the bullet
> rises above the point of firing.

Huh? What makes it rise? Surely it should only fall.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:13:39 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Assault Lawyer?

At 06:05 PM 9/18/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Fellow Travellers,
>
>I just read about Douglas Berry playing an "assault lawyer".  
>This sounds fun... perhaps Douglas could post or email more
>detailed information, in case someone wanted to do this too?

I have, of course, lost the character sheet.

"Pudding" was a character in a TNE/Regency game.  We were skip tracers, and
it occured to me that having some legal muscle to back up the guns made
sense, so I rolled up a 6-term PC, College, Law School, 3 terms lawyer, one
term as a Secret Agent.  (It seemed to be a pretty good description of who
a skip tracer operated, and I needed some combat skills.)

Physically, Eneri was depressingly average.  His best combat skill was with
his auto-shotgun, with which it was hard to miss :)  However, get him in
the legal arena, and look out.  He had, IIRC, Legal-6, Admin-5, Bribery-3,
Liason-3, and a couple of other bureaucrasy related skills.

Kirsten played my wife (big stretch there), a former pirate who I helped
get out of prison after she was wrongfully sent up.  We had a great time
playing the average married couple in the oddest of situations.. ("Eneri,
remember to arrange to see a dentist when we reach Deneb, oh, and could you
toss me a spare magazine, I'm running low.."  "Yes, dear.")

Eneri was one of my favorite Traveller characters, simply because he broke
the expect molds.  A slight, balding Vilanni commercial lawyer isn't really
what most people think of when they think Traveller character, but he
worked for me.

Then there was the time I sucessfully argued for citizenship for a
Virus-infected Heavy Cruiser in Regency Court....
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:00:29 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Are you naturally that much of a nit-picker, or am I a special case
study?  :)

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:02:02 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

I do not advocate piracy of any kind, but Kevin, you need to lighten up
a little.  I don't even think the FBI comes on as serious as you do.  :)

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: 20 Sep 1997 17:30:09 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

>The only true problem I have with Gurps as a system is converting from
>"English" to metric. Hell orignal CT was in "English" measurments.

My original, first printing CT books use SI units.  One of the things that
attracted me to Traveller when it was first published (yup, I'm one of the
original players) was not having to convert units.  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:10:11 -0600
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Dummarest revisited...

At 03:55 AM 9/20/97 -0700, J-man wrote:
>E.C. Tubb wrote the "Dumarest of Terra" novels, where he is looking for
>the world of his birth, "Terra".  the Cyclan (a bunch of remorseless
>humans with no emotions) are after him the whole way because he carries
>a rare genetic chemical that allows a person to take over another's
>body.
>
>There are around 20 or so books in the series, all good reading.  Earl
>Dumarest is the main character, who prefers fighting with knives.  He's
>a no BS, common-sensical hero type.

Actually, the last and final book in the series was just published this
year. It is #32 - "The Return". This last volume is available from Gryphon
Publications and costs US $20. Their address is:

Gryphon Publications
PO Box 209
Brooklyn, N.Y. 11228-0209
USA

They also have for sale their recently published 'lost novel' by E.C. Tubb
titled "Saturn Patrol". It was his first novel, and was previouly only
published in the early 50's in a small print run in the UK. This book costs
US $15 and is well worth it in my opinion. It contains many elements which
were later to be expanded upon in the Dummarest series, and it is most
certainly the inspiration for the Hive Nest/Alien Queen in the "Alien"
movies - read it and you'll see what I mean.

They also have two other rare/previously unpublished in english/US novels by
E.C. Tubb which I have not yet read (but plan too). They are: "Pandora's
Box" and "The Temple of Death" (the last not to be confused with the
Dummarest novel #31 "The Temple of Truth"). They both cost US $15 each.

Ad Astra,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:01:40 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re:T4 problem ?

At 01:47 1997-09-20 EDT, Jim wrote:
>hello , I was attempting to design a ship useing the quick system in the
>T4 book . I can't find the chart that shows jump capability . what page
>is it in or was it left out .?

The table was accidentally left out of the book. You can download it at the
Imperium Games website, more specifically at

http://www.imperiumgames.com/errata/t4.html

This comprehensive errata covers many mistakes made in the T4 main rulebook.
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm (Link=F6ping, Sweden)

It's astounding, time is fleeting, madness takes it's toll
But listen closely, not for very much longer
I've got to keep control
I remember doing the Time Warp
Drinking those moments when the darkness would hit me
And a void would be calling
Let's do the Time Warp again

- - Time Warp, from the Rocky Horror Picture Show

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1856
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 20 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1857



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Trade or Sell
Piper (was: Live Campaigns)
IG Suggestions
Re: Gurps Traveller
Questions about Traveller
Turbine-Flywheel engines
Coping and Legal stuff
Re: Crazy loner scientist (was Re: Hacking gunnery-1)
Re:Highports & 100 dia. ( was Re:X-boats & couriers)
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Thrusters
Re: Why starmaps are 2d
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1856
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Questions about Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:54:25 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> Personally, if you want a specific work which isn't in print and you can get
> a photocopy, I think that's OK.
> 
> Marc


Now, you gotta hand it to this guy.  He's not just someone who publishes
RPGs.  He's a roleplayer himself.

What I would expect on this issue from the creator of the game is,
"Nooooo!  You've got to buy every thing you get, and don't
photocopy--even if it is for your own use!"

And, what we got from him on this issue is, "Hey, I like you playing
Traveller.  If you need something that is out of print, and you can get
a photocopy of it, then more power to you.  Just don't abuse the
privledge."

Marc doesn't sound like the publisher of a game.  He sounds like your
friend--the grand game master that lives down the street, always ready
to put you through another adventure.

Bravo, Marc.

Kenneth.

PS  And, Marc is probably smarter than other game publishers.  Instead
of stomping on you for trying to play the game, he encourages it.  He
figures you'll use the old supplements, in photocopy form if you have
to, and play his game.  Then you'll have fun with it, and when the new
T4 supplements come out, you'll want them more because you are already
playing the game--he dosen't have to draw you away from another game.

On top of being friendly, I'd say Marc is being a good businessman as
well.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:25:32 -0600
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Piper (was: Live Campaigns)

At 09:57 PM 9/19/97 PST, Leonard wrote:

>I'm waiting for the sequel to "Great King's War" (which is a sequel to
>"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen").
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)

There are two  stories (sequals of a sort) to "Great King's War" already
out. They are:
 
"Kalvan Kingmaker", by Rolan Green & John F. Carr (published in
_Alternatives_, ed. Robert Adams, Baen 1989).

"Siege at Tarr-Hostigos", by Roland Green & John F. Carr (published in
_There Will Be War VIII: Armageddon_, ed. Jerry Pournelle, Tor 1989).  

Ad Astra,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:55:37 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: IG Suggestions

I've got a few suggestions for IG.


SUGGESTION #1:
The first one has to do with cosmetics.  Notice how all of the books so
far are basically black with red trim.

My suggestions is to change the color of the trim, like they used to do
back in the old CT days, with each milieu.

For instance, each book that has been published so far is designed is
designed for Milieu 0.  Even the main book is directed towards the start
of the Imperium.  And, all of these books have been black with red trim.

Now, when a new milieu comes out--I think M200 is the next--IG should
change the trim color.  Maybe that will be a black book with gold trim,
or blue, or orange, or whatever.

I like this because of two things.  T4 players and GMs can instantly
distinguish between various milieu books as they sit on a shelf, and--I
admit this is a bit nastolgic, but there is nothing wrong with that--it
reminds me of the strip color change between the various little black
books from CT.



SUGGESTION #2:

My second suggestion springs on me as I read through Psionics
Institutes.  At first glance, it seemed to me that the book was to
directed towards M0 that it would not be that usable in my M1100
campaign.

But, as I read through it, I realized that it would not be that hard to
use the book in M1100.  I like the idea of using the book to expand the
psionics rules for my campaign.

In PI, this can be easily done by stating some facts about the M1100
era.  Maybe the world view in the M1100 era is always against psionics,
and you can use the rules in the book for the M1100 era just like you
would a planet that is totally against psionics in the M0 era.

Then, it dawned on me.  It would be nice if there was a section in PI
that detailed how to use the book in different milieus.  I think, in the
case of PI, this can be done relatively easy.  It would take a page, or
less, to add some modifers to the die rolls in PI--maybe a modifier to
skew the die roll for world view to the unfavorable position for M1100.

This would do two things.  It would give users of the book an idea of
where things are going with respect to psionics, and it would make the
book more usable to GMs who are running games in other milieu.  There
are still a lot of gamers out there running games in M1100 and M1200.

My suggestion is to always included, in every supplement to come out of
IG from here on out, a page or so of rules to help you use the material
in different milieu.

I think the EA has already done a good job of this in that it contains
weapons that are above TL 12--and it worked these ideas into the M0
campaign (in the form of high-tech ROM era weapons).  Whether you agree
with the ROM having TL 15 weapons or not, it is nice to have those
weapon selections in the book for M1100 campaigns.

In sum, every IG supplement should be somewhat usable in any era.  Write
the supplement for a particular era, then have a page or so or die
modifiers and text describing how to use the material in different
milieus.



SUGGESTION #3

My last suggestion deals with detailing the Traveller universe.  

To get across this concept, let me tell you how much I liked the area
modules published for D&D's Forgotten Realms.  Every so often, TSR will
come out with a new module detailing different parts of the gaming
world.  There's a module for Waterdeep.  There's a module for the Sword
Coast.  There's a module for Thay and surrounding countries.  There's a
module for the desert lands.

In short, they've broken up the various geographical regions of the
Forgotten Realms and published a sourcebook for it--detailing all sorts
of neat things about that specific region.  You could spend your whole
gaming life in one of those regions and never get bored.

I have often wanted somthing like this for Traveller.  I'd like to see
each sector in the Imperium detailed.  Yes, I know.  This will take a
while, but so did the supplements for the Forgotten Realms.  It took
years.

Once a year, once a quarter, or whatever, it would be nice to get a
module detailing a whole sector.  This would include a map of the entire
sector, sections on politics for the region, sections on aliens for the
region, sections on the history of the region, and so forth.  

There should be data on the worlds in that particular sector.  I'd like
to see notes on how to use this information in different milieus.

Some selected worlds would be fully mapped out.  I can see some cities
on that world mapped, and a micro look taken at the planet.

When these are first published, they can be written for a specific
milieu.  For instance, I can see the nine sectors in M0 being detailed
with an eye towards M0--but notes included for running campaigns in
different eras.

Then, when M200 comes out, the next set of sector supplements would
detail those sectors with a slant towards M200, but, again, a section
would be included for using this info in different campaigns.

Another way to present the sector supplements is to cover certain
subjects, like planets, politics, history,etc, then, within that
section, detail the changes that occurr in the different time periods.

However it is done, it would be nice to see supplements come out like
this.

And, that's my three suggestions for supplements today.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:58:18 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

Glenn Hoppe wrote:

> Granted, I don't have the original Box Of Three, but I do have a bunch of
> CT supplements, I see no English measurements anywhere (thankfully).

Yep, That's were its at. World size numbers are based on Thousands of Miles.Thou,
weights were in Grams and millimeters. As time went on this changed.

> Scouts has got good ol' Celsius and Kilometres, High Guard has its cubic
> metres and Mercenary has got weapon and ammo weights in grams.
>
> I don't remember ever seeing "English" measurements with respect to
> Traveller except for the planetary generation charts, where world sizes
> were listed in both miles and kilometers.
>
> The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game why
> would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use system of
> weights and measures?

It was written in the mid to late 70's.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:55:25 +0000
From: "Garth Dighton" <gdighton@elite.net>
Subject: Questions about Traveller

I am fairly new to this mailing list, and to Traveller. I played a 
game of CT several years ago, but the only rulebook my friend had was 
the one on character generation, so we didn't get to far.

Now I have the T4 rules, and I have several questions (not about the 
rules so much as the universe's assumptions).

The term "jump point" is used often, both in the books and on the 
TML. If I read the books correctly, though, there is no one "point" 
in space that you have to be to jump, you can be anywhere outside of 
the 100 diameter limit, which is a sphere. So what does jump point 
refer to?

Given the above, how does piracy operate? The sensors thread seems to 
indicate that most planets would have sensor capability at least to 
the hundred-diameter limit, and at that point a ship leaving the 
system would jump, leaving the pirates unable to attack the ship in 
privacy. Do they attack the ship in full view of the planet and hope 
to finish the job before help arrives?? Do they only attack ships on 
their way to refuel at the gas giant, outside of the planet's sensor 
range??

On the Benefits tables in character creation, there are four ships 
you can get, the Free Trader, the Scout, the Yacht, and the Lab Ship. 
The descriptions in the text only cover how the character gets the 
Free Trader or Scout. If a noble or entertainer receives a yacht, 
does he own it outright, or does he have to make payments on it? If 
an academic has a lab ship, does he make payments, is it on loan from 
his university/academy/patron, or does he own it outright.

If a noble has a yacht, and wishes to sell it in order to purchase a 
free trader, what are the protocols involved here? The Yacht has a 
list price of 33 MCr, the Free Trader about 31 MCr. Could she just 
make the exchange. Would she have to sell it at a discount, and 
purchase as much of the trader as she could, and mortgage the rest?? 
The character has a good reason for doing this. She is the 10th 
daughter of the late Count de Bessie, and did not receive much in his 
will. Her elder brother has essentially kicked her off the planet, so 
she has decided to seek her fortune in commerce. A yacht is pretty 
useless for this, but a free trader would work. The other PC's would 
be the crew, and she would travel aboard as the captain-owner. If she 
owns the ship outright, she could either have inherited it from her 
father or have it given to her by the new Count in order to get her 
off the planet. If this isn't generally the case, then I'll have to 
come up with something else. (The practical reason for the trade is 
that the player who rolled up a merchant character failed to roll a 
ship, and no one has enough money to put a down payment on even the 
smallest starship, and we do want a commerce campaign).

These are the questions I have right now, but I may have others 
later. Thanks in advance for your help.

Garth Dighton
gdighton@elite.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 22:10:57 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Turbine-Flywheel engines

Anyone interested in the developing technologies regarding
turbine-flywheel motor design should check out www.rosenmotors.com.


James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:32:38 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Coping and Legal stuff

Okay this is based on NZ copyright law which is broadly similar to those in
most countries:

Material currently "in print" may be copied to a *limited* extent. Firstly
it may only be copied for research or personal use. Just what is personal
use is a little fuzzy, but the actual law comes down on the side of the
copyright holder as a rule. Secondly the amount of the item which may be
copied is limited, around 10%. So one can legally copy the tables and charts
in the back of Pocket Empires for instance, but one can not copy the entire
publication. If material is copied for research and then included in another
publication, this is legal, but if the material is directly reproduced it
must be done as a "short" quote and it must be attributed. Good rule of thumb
for in print material: when in any doubt, don't.

Material "out of print" may be copied in its entirety for research or personal
use only. *IT MAY NOT BE DISTRIBUTED IN ANY WAY* (ie you can photocopy High
Guard (just) for your own use, but you can not photocopy it and then give the
copy to someone else). Just what constitues "out of print" is again a little
fuzzy. As a rule of thumb, the last published edition must be at least 10
years old, the publisher must not carry it in their "catalogue" and show no
signs of intention to reprint, and finally the publication must be "generally
unavailable". Note under this provision you *may not* copy a copy.

As to Marc's (very generous) comments on coping. It in no way invalidates
the copyright on the material (the material remains copyright). At the best
it can be taken as declaring that the material is out of print and it's
probably not even that.

Hope this helps clarify things.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:40:15 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Crazy loner scientist (was Re: Hacking gunnery-1)

Ethan Henry wrote<egh@klg.com>

> Also, the idea that someone with Gunenry-3 and Computer-3 can sit
> down and write Gunnery-3 software in anything less than a decade
> is silly. If someone writes new computer rules for T4, don't copy
> the CT rules.

Agreed.

> They're right up there with "crazy loner scientist
> creates intelligent humanoid robot while multi-trillion dollar
> R&D company has trouble working toaster" stories. Unless that's
> what you're going for, of course.

But isn't  "crazy loner scientist creates intelligent humanoid robot
while multi-trillion dollar R&D company has trouble working toaster"
somewhat canonical in Traveller.  In the DGP adventures published in
Travellers Digest Dr Theodore Krenstein created the pseudobiological
robot AB-101 (aka Aybe Wan Owen) pretty much on his own, albeit with the
help of grad students etc.

Dr Krenstein is Int F, Edu C and Robotics -5 but should he really have
been able to create such a breakthrough on his own ?  I will believe Dr
Krenstein as the head of a multi hundred mega credit research project of
a megacorporation or the government, but the idea that he could do it
more or less by himself is somewhat questionable.  As built AB-101 was
only pseudo intelligence and he did not actually become "intelligent"
until after some Hivers put some experimental TL-16  chips in his
otherwise state of the art TL-15 workings.

It is of course possible that AB-101 is not as much of a breakthrough as
Dr Krenstein believes he is (due to pride in his own work) and that a
robot of AB-101's sophistication could have been made by any of the
other (a few dozen or so, perhaps ?) TL 15 Int F, Edu C, Robotics-5
experts in the Imperium.  (Note that Dr Krensteins skill level 5 is in
CT and MT terms, not T4  terms.)

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:16:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Woden2014@aol.com
Subject: Re:Highports & 100 dia. ( was Re:X-boats & couriers)

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>> Well, I rather expect that at major hubs there are a *lot* of private
 and public stations out there at the 100 dia limit. For example, if
 cargo is just "passing thru", why bother hauling it to even high orbit
 if you don't have to?

 And for courier work, 100 dia limit stations make too much sense.<<

Glenn Hoppe wrote:

>>I see no reason why part of the actual *starport* wouldn't be out there
at the 100 dia. limit. For Starports A and B especially, it would be
pretty standard for a world with a lot of outsystem trade to have a
highport at that distance.

After all, if goods are being sent out by jump, what would be the point
of a highport in low orbit, besides the nice view? If a "standing jump"
is the standard, it would be more time efficient to have the highport at
the 100 dia limit. There is just one decelleration phase, so the trip
would be shorter, as the ship reaches a higher velocity. With a port in
orbit, you have two decellerations: from surface to port, then from port
to jump-point.<<



The 100 dia. limit is not one point in space, but a sphere.(as has been
pointed out in another thread) The odds of a ship coming out of Jump near
this *Farport* are slim, assuming there are multiple trade routes to the
system.  Even with only one route you need to take into account the other
planets in the system which could impose their own 100dia. limits upon the
Farport when their orbits brought them into range of it.  I do like the idea
of a Farport, but it is useful in limited situations and then only if the
planetary orbits of the system allow it.

As far as X-boat stations are concerned, they would work great as Farports
because they would mainly handle out bound messages sent to them from the
home planet.  They also would workwell from asteroid bases, and small
uninhabitable planets on the fring of the system, because their 100 dia.
limit would be smaller (because their dia. are smaller) thus ships could get
to the Jump piont quicker.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 18:20:16 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

On 21 Sep 97 at 10:32, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:

> As to Marc's (very generous) comments on coping. It in no way invalidates
> the copyright on the material (the material remains copyright). At the
> best it can be taken as declaring that the material is out of print and
> it's probably not even that.

Except that we've not heard from Marc as to whether HE still holds the rights 
to such material and can legally waive the copy restrictions.

The way he stated it, it seemed only to be his generous OPINION and nothing 
more.
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:50:32 +0100
From: Colin Black <colin.black@virgin.net>
Subject: Thrusters

Since thrusters are reactionless,does the ship have to orientate
itself in the appropriate direction to accel & deccel or does it
just re-align the thruster "field"?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:55:59 -0700
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Why starmaps are 2d

"Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> wrote:
>>Up until 2300AD, nobody tried to push 3d space maps in games.
>>There were a few attempts, but they didn't work very well.
>>Traveller, and everyone else, just used 2-D for playability.
> 
>SPI's Universe had a very nice 3d starmap of the local area.  1981 IIRC.

I read a review of Universe when it came out; the reviewer really, really
didn't like the mapping system and thought it was unplayable.
I didn't buy it as a result (also, I was pre-teen at that point,
and was just starting to actively wargame).  I would love to have
someone who has it post some details so we can take a look in
retrospect and analyze it...



- -george william herbert
gherbert@crl.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:15:02 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1856

On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:26:03 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:57:43 PST
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?
>
>In mail you write:
>
>> H. Beam Piper was an incredible author.  The only thing I find difficult
>> about his work (being in the computer industry myself) is his projections
>> of the computer field.  (sigh, I guess no one is perfect)
>
>Well, he also assumed that energy weapons would take a *long* time
>before they came into existence...
>
>> I have been hearing rumours for years that someone picked up the Space
>> Viking thread and wrote a second book.  Does anyone know if this is true?
>
>Sort of. Jerry Pournelle knew Piper when Piper was still alive, and got
>permission to set stories in Piper's universe. He's been working on
>"Return of Space Viking" (working title) for years. When it'll come out
>is anyone's guess.
>
>I'm waiting for the sequel to "Great King's War" (which is a sequel to
>"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen").

Yep, I agree. And I wish that someone would reprint those books, as mine are,
quite literally, falling apart! Anyone know if ACE (I think they have the rights
to the Piper estate) have any plans to do so?

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:10:46 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:55:25 +0000, Garth Dighton wrote:

> I am fairly new to this mailing list, and to Traveller. I played a 
> game of CT several years ago, but the only rulebook my friend had was 
> the one on character generation, so we didn't get to far.

Welcome!

> Now I have the T4 rules, and I have several questions (not about the 
> rules so much as the universe's assumptions).
> 
> The term "jump point" is used often, both in the books and on the 
> TML. If I read the books correctly, though, there is no one "point" 
> in space that you have to be to jump, you can be anywhere outside of 
> the 100 diameter limit, which is a sphere. So what does jump point 
> refer to?

Jump points refer to the actual coordinates one would choose when
jumping, or the coordinates where a jump took place (after the fact).
Jump point is akin to the term "breaking point"-- at which time you go
bonkers and run out into the street naked and screaming at the top of
your lungs.  "Breaking point" isn't really defined as a specific set
of circumstance that will trigger such behaviour, but it works after
the fact (ie: Joe just hit his breaking point :)

> Given the above, how does piracy operate? The sensors thread seems to 
> indicate that most planets would have sensor capability at least to 
> the hundred-diameter limit, and at that point a ship leaving the 
> system would jump, leaving the pirates unable to attack the ship in 
> privacy. Do they attack the ship in full view of the planet and hope 
> to finish the job before help arrives?? Do they only attack ships on 
> their way to refuel at the gas giant, outside of the planet's sensor 
> range??

Piracy often takes place in and around gas giants, but can take place
elsewhere.  Just because something takes place within the 100 diameter
limit does not necessarily mean that the local authorities can get
there in time to prevent it.

> On the Benefits tables in character creation, there are four ships 
> you can get, the Free Trader, the Scout, the Yacht, and the Lab Ship. 
> The descriptions in the text only cover how the character gets the 
> Free Trader or Scout. If a noble or entertainer receives a yacht, 
> does he own it outright, or does he have to make payments on it? If 
> an academic has a lab ship, does he make payments, is it on loan from 
> his university/academy/patron, or does he own it outright.

I believe that the Yacht is owned outright, while the Lab ship is most
likely part of a government or corporate grant provided to the
scientist and is purely on loan.

> If a noble has a yacht, and wishes to sell it in order to purchase a 
> free trader, what are the protocols involved here? The Yacht has a 
> list price of 33 MCr, the Free Trader about 31 MCr. Could she just 
> make the exchange. Would she have to sell it at a discount, and 
> purchase as much of the trader as she could, and mortgage the rest?? 
> The character has a good reason for doing this. She is the 10th 
> daughter of the late Count de Bessie, and did not receive much in his 
> will. Her elder brother has essentially kicked her off the planet, so 
> she has decided to seek her fortune in commerce. A yacht is pretty 
> useless for this, but a free trader would work. The other PC's would 
> be the crew, and she would travel aboard as the captain-owner. If she 
> owns the ship outright, she could either have inherited it from her 
> father or have it given to her by the new Count in order to get her 
> off the planet. If this isn't generally the case, then I'll have to 
> come up with something else. (The practical reason for the trade is 
> that the player who rolled up a merchant character failed to roll a 
> ship, and no one has enough money to put a down payment on even the 
> smallest starship, and we do want a commerce campaign).

Allow the character to begin play with the yacht at the moment she is
kicked off planet.  Selling the yacht and buying a trader could then
make a very interesting game session or two (she could even meet her
soon-to-be crew during these game sessions).  All you need to do as a
referee is determine the condition of the yacht itself so that a fair
selling price can be obtained (via the rules regarding such skills as
Broker or Administration).  Once the character ends up with a specific
sum of money, she can begin looking for a used trader locally or
perhaps travel to an adjacent star system (leaving room for additional
roleplaying).  The amount of money she gets for selling her yacht will
determine the size and condition of the trader she will eventually end
up with (I prefer the older, rustic bargain of a trader to a newer,
smaller one for the same money-- older ships have more character :)

James W. Lindsay     Vancouver, British Columbia
  "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
    the grace to accept the things I cannot,
         and a great big bag of money."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:03:32 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

Garth Dighton wrote:
> 
> I am fairly new to this mailing list, and to Traveller. 

Welcome!

> The term "jump point" is used often, both in the books and on the
> TML. If I read the books correctly, though, there is no one "point"
> in space that you have to be to jump, you can be anywhere outside of
> the 100 diameter limit, which is a sphere. So what does jump point
> refer to?

You've got it right.  The jump point is the point the ship jumps into
jumpspace.  This can actually be anywhere--even in a ship hangar on a
planet.  The problem is...it is not that safe to jump that close to a
gravity well.

So, there's the 10 diameter and 100 diameter limits.  Get away from a
massive body by about 100 diameters, and it is pretty safe to jump at
that point--any point.

> Given the above, how does piracy operate? The sensors thread seems to
> indicate that most planets would have sensor capability at least to
> the hundred-diameter limit, and at that point a ship leaving the
> system would jump, leaving the pirates unable to attack the ship in
> privacy.

Private Pirates?  Hey, I like that!

For most ships, especially those with 1 G maneuver drives, it is several
hours from the point they enter normal space in a system to the
destination planet.  This gives pirates plenty of opportunity to pounce
on some prey.

Just because the ship is in communication with the starport, it doesn't
mean that there is a patrol ship close enough to intercede in the fight.

Many times, pirates will attack. The victim ship will radio in.  Minutes
later the message is received at the star port (communication travels at
light speed, which can still take it some time at those distances).  A
ship is dispatched (if there is any there to dispatch--many times the
answer to this is no.  The pirates usually know where the picking is
good).  By the time the rescue ship gets to the downed ship, the pirates
are gone out with there loot.

Now, as a GM, you can get real creative with this.  Is there a patrol
vessel within range to intercede with the pirate attack? Is this attack
taking place in an asteroid belt where there are plenty places for
pirates to attack?  Maybe the attack took place as the victim ship was
trying to refuel at the gas giant, and the pirates caught the ship on
the far side of the planet--where there is not line of sight between the
ship and the starport, effectively blocking communications.

It's your universe.  You decide how it goes down, and watch your players
try to wiggle out of it.

> On the Benefits tables in character creation, there are four ships
> you can get, the Free Trader, the Scout, the Yacht, and the Lab Ship.
> The descriptions in the text only cover how the character gets the
> Free Trader or Scout. If a noble or entertainer receives a yacht,
> does he own it outright, or does he have to make payments on it?

The first time a character receives a ship benefit from mustering out,
he receives the ship but still owes the payments on it.  The benefit got
him the down payment and the ship.  The second time he receives it, 10
years is paid off.  He still owes the rest.  From there on out, 10 years
are paid on this ship after every ship result.

If
> an academic has a lab ship, does he make payments, is it on loan from
> his university/academy/patron, or does he own it outright.

You are the GM.  Decide how this is handled in your game.  I could see
it going either way.

> If a noble has a yacht, and wishes to sell it in order to purchase a
> free trader, what are the protocols involved here?

He doesn't own it outright, so he cannot sell it.  I have gotten
creative with this before with characters.  Since the character is a
noble, you might want to give the equivalent of his ownership in the
ship to the character in cash.  This allows the noble to start the game
with a huge bank roll.  Or, you can say that the noble has another
business (maybe equity in the starport on his home planet), and the
amount determined is how much the business is worth--or whatever your
creative little mind comes up with.

 
> These are the questions I have right now, but I may have others
> later. Thanks in advance for your help.

No problem.  Hit us all with any questions you might have.  But,
beware--you'll probably get more answers than you wanted, and I'm sure
not all the answers will be agree.

But, hey, that's what this list is all about--the free discussion of
Traveller.

Again, welcome.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1857
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 21 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1858



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thrusters
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Re: Firearms in Vacuum
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Re: IG Suggestions
Re: bandage
Re: Legal Stuff (was...)
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: FSY Type S Scout/Courier upgrade; the explanation...
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Re: Thrusters
Re: Questions about Traveller
Hulls
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Trade or Sell
Re: Firearms in Vacuum
PE Campaigns

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:09:32 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

Colin Black wrote:
> 
> Since thrusters are reactionless,does the ship have to orientate
> itself in the appropriate direction to accel & deccel or does it
> just re-align the thruster "field"?

Actually, thrusters can "shoot through" the hull of a ship.  So, it is
possible to orientate the ship without realigning the thing.

But, thrusters are designed to produce thrust in one main direction. 
Usually this is to the aft of the ship.  The thrusters can be used in
"reverse", but at 10% the thrust if the ship moved "forward".

Likewise, 25% of the thrust from the thruster can be used to the
"sides--port and starboard" of the plate.

Can it be done?   Yes.  Is it efficient without realigning the ship? 
No.

You may want to find a copy of Starship Operator's Manual Vol. 1.  It
was published by Digest Group Publications for MT and is out of print,
but it is a great supplement for any era of Traveller and worth buying
if you ever find it used.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:27:16 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:

> Except that we've not heard from Marc as to whether HE still holds the rights
> to such material and can legally waive the copy restrictions.
> 
> The way he stated it, it seemed only to be his generous OPINION and nothing
> more.

I haven't been saying anything because I was trying to be nice, but,
Jesus Christ guy, get a grip!

It's time to drop it, don't you think?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 23:03:43 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

have you ever fired a weapon with tracers ? [ yes I know half of us are
x-mil. ] if you have you would notice that bullets do not have a flat
tragectory , the rise then fall like a arc . I was surprised first time I
saw it . I can only imagine the effects of this in a vacuum . also i have
the across the bright face module so I know all about dinomn .
in short I think a conventional firearm would shoot up into space . gauss
is supposed tpo have a very flat trag. so that would be a different story
.. IMHO 

oppinions on this 


jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:19:42 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

On 20 Sep 97 at 21:03, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> > Given the above, how does piracy operate? The sensors thread seems to
> > indicate that most planets would have sensor capability at least to the
> > hundred-diameter limit, and at that point a ship leaving the system
> > would jump, leaving the pirates unable to attack the ship in privacy.
> 
> Private Pirates?  Hey, I like that!
> 
> For most ships, especially those with 1 G maneuver drives, it is several
> hours from the point they enter normal space in a system to the
> destination planet.  This gives pirates plenty of opportunity to pounce on
> some prey.

Another thing to remember.  At 100 diameters away, the orbital circumference 
is about 628 diameters in length.  So, unless there were plenty of pirates or 
a common 'jump-in' point, it would be very hard to be profitable at these 
distances.

There are also 31,000+ square 'diameters' of space to patrol strictly on the 
plane of rotation.  Obviously much more in the cubic, but I forgot the math 
for that :)

Whew...that's a lot.


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:24:52 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

On 20 Sep 97 at 21:27, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:
> 
> > Except that we've not heard from Marc as to whether HE still holds the
> > rights to such material and can legally waive the copy restrictions.
> > 
> > The way he stated it, it seemed only to be his generous OPINION and
> > nothing more.
> 
> I haven't been saying anything because I was trying to be nice, but,
> Jesus Christ guy, get a grip!
> 
> It's time to drop it, don't you think?

I've refrained from replying to direct insults, but now you take the Lord's 
name in vain, for which I am sure you will not apologize, no matter how 
offensive your behaviour.

As for the topic at hand, I am content to let it drop, but this is a legal 
issue.  There are many on this list who are 'lurkers', only reading and not 
replying.  Some are still young and impressionable and while I would never 
dictate to anyone what their chosen behavior must be, it is a misuse of this 
list and the internet to openly encourage the violation of any law, including 
copying of an author's intellectual property.

And thank you very much, I *DO* have a 'grip'.  It seems the others on this 
thread do not, in defending illegal behaviour.

If you want to let it go, then please do.  Note, I have only responded to 
others, not dredged this up on my own.  Let it go, and I will not respond to 
it.  I'd prefer we stay on topic.


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:31:09 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: IG Suggestions

clap , clap , clap .

bravo man . and I agree !

jim

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:45:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: bandage

In mail you write:

> Kagehira@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>>      Bandage Drug is actually an old item, it's written up in one of the 
> old
>>  JTASes'. And it's actually a spray foam. 
>
> Have you any idea what TL it was, or how much it cost per dose?

Well, I know that we can make something similar *now*. In fact, this
likely traces back to the use of collidion (celluloid dissolved in
alcohol) as an "instant bandage". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:31:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Legal Stuff (was...)

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote mentioning the "Imperial Auditor"
> in Bujold's latest Miles Vorkosigian adventure, "Memory".
>
> To be honest, the temporary Auditor seems to exactly
> match my idea of what a holder of a 3rd Imperium Imperial Warrant
> is there for and can do...  

True enough. But I like the idea of there being a few *permanent*
holders. These are the sort of folks that scare sector dukes when there
is just a *rumor* that they might be passing thru. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:24:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

In mail you write:

> Now if we are going to nit-pick legalities, then who's to say any of us have
> RESALE rights to that material?  Is there a law that states we can?

Yes. Copyright law includes the right to re-sell your copy. You may
also xerox or otherwise reproduce copies for archival purposes (ie, you
copy the book, then work from the copies so as to not wear the original
out). But when you sell, you must either destroy the copies, or
transfer them along with the original.

This is why so much software has "license agreements". This is an
attempt to *limit* your rights under copyright law, and many clauses
may not stand up if seriously challenged by someone who can afford to
fight through the appeals.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:27:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

In mail you write:

>> Consider the idea that the software has been getting the bugs removed
>> for several *centuries*. Having a bug show up is an *extremely* rare
>> occurence. Not like the current mess where we have hardware bugs,
>> firmware bugs, software bugs, and poor integration between different
>> subsystems. 
>
>         How long dos Sylea have Tl12, how many programs had to be
>         rewritten to reflect this new techlevel ?

Well, partially it'd be a case of just porting the old software to new
hardware, which if the hardware is "provably correct", gives you a
speed increase without any increase in bugs. 

Then you do the "usual" painstaking correctness proofs for any software
mods.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:34:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

In mail you write:

>>The only true problem I have with Gurps as a system is converting from
>>"English" to metric. Hell orignal CT was in "English" measurments.
>
> ???? <Blank stare>
>
> Where?
>
> Granted, I don't have the original Box Of Three, but I do have a bunch of 
> CT supplements, I see no English measurements anywhere (thankfully).

For example, the original planetary size scale was based on the
planetary diameter in thousands of miles (Making earth a size 8 planet).
And the vector movement system used ??? thousand miles as the distance
unit.

> The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game why 
> would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use system of 
> weights and measures? 

Ah yes, nice scientific and rational... Like having your unit of mass
be determined by a hunk of platinum in France. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:46:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: FSY Type S Scout/Courier upgrade; the explanation...

In mail you write:

>         After taking a look at the USD for the Type S, I decided that I
> could do a lot better... however, after running the numbers through James
> Dempsey's Starship Assembly Line, I was amazed at just how much better I
> could do.  This is a pretty funky little ship...
>
>         I derived the price by subtracting the T4 price for a Type S and
> subtracting it from the SAL price for the upgrade.
>
>         And god only knows who Spofulam are selling the parts to :).

*That* I can answer for you.... 

Remember, the IISS still *owns* most of the Type-S ships running
around. So they'd have to approve of such a major change. And while
they'd likely have no trouble with the drives getting swapped. they may
be a bit more picky about the sensor suite.

So I picture some large burly men in IISS uniforms showing up and
"insisting" on having a talk with the president of Famille Spofulam. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:28:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

In mail you write:

> I'm not completely sure about this, but if I recall correctly, from my
> business law class, photo-copying something like this is not illegal.
>
> It's illegal if you photo-copy it and then sell it.

Nope. If it is properly copyrighted and registered, it does not matter
whether you sold the copy or gave it away. The punitive damages can be
anywhere from $100 to $10k *per copy*. 

If the copyright wasn't registered until after the violation, then you
can only sue for actual damages. Which would be kinda hard to prove in
a case like this. But you could still prevent the person from making
any more unauthorized copies.

I'm sure that GDW registered their copyright (they'd have been fools
not to). So if the copyright holder decides to sue someone for copying
traveller materials, it could cost the copier *lots* of money.

Also note that the copyright holder is allowed to decide when to sue or
not sue. It's not like trademark law where failure to "defend" a
trademark can lose ther trademark. A copyright holder can ignore the
fact that Joe made 10,000 copies, and sue Tom for making 1 copy. And it
won't help Tom at all to bring up Joe.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:47:01 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:
>> Not if it is properly written. And given the millenia of experience, I
>> rather suspect that the hardware *and* software will be "provably
>> correct". This is done now for systems that *can't* go wrong. It's
>> expensive and time consuming. But given that the basic computer
>> architecture doesn't change for *centuries* (rather than every six
>> months like now), this is likely the way they'd go. If for no other
>> reason than to avoid being sued!
>> 
>> ("Provably correct" means that every possible state of the cpu has been
>> checked and that the software logic and code have been thru the
>> equivalent. Think of it as trying every *possible* input and verifying
>> that the output is correct for those inputs. There *are* shortcuts that
>> keep it from taking forever, but it is tedious.
>
> I think that when you take into account the amount of state info
> something like a pentium contains, even if you test a trillion
> inputs a second, you'd still be testing your pentium until
> the end of time... if you could come up with a useful, stateless
> processor, you might be able to "prove" it, but with something
> like a Pentium, you not only have to test each set of inputs,
> you have to test each _sequence_ of sets of inputs. Yuck!

That's why when building a provably correct CPU, you work the state
logic thru formal proofs. They haven't (yet) built a provably correct
processor as complex as a Pentium (to my knowledge). But I'm sure that
they will eventually. 

The trick is that if you can verify the "state machine", then you
*don't* have to check all the possible states. Just like in
mathematical proofs, where you don't have to check the infinite
possible cases, because the cases follow logical rules.

> I doubt computers in the 3I will be any better.

I'd be damned surprised if they *aren't* a LOT better.

> As a reference, from this month's 'IEEE Computer', in the article
> 'Billion-Transistor Architectures', the following factiod is given:
>
>   Validation and testing now account for 40 to 50 percent of
>   an Intel chip's design cost, and 6 percent of the transistors
>   (for built in self-test) on the Pentium Pro.
>
> I'd wager that for any large, really critical software system
> the costs will be quite similar. And after you spend 50% of
> your development effort on testing, the last thing you're going
> to do is let other people play around with it.

Which is why I see much of the user/program interaction as the user
using his intuition/training/experience to suggest which alternatives
to prioritize. For example, a chess grandmaster watching some sort of
summary output of the move trees the computer is evaluating, and
inputting his suggestions as to likely branches to investigate.

For "programming", it'd be a case of the grandmaster "fine tuning" the
move evaluation function. that's *not* a matter of program logic, it's
an "arbitary" assignment of relative values. It usually winds up as a
sort of glorified "lookup table". So you can greatly affect the
program's success by changing the values in the "table", yet you aren't
modifying the *program* at all! And in fact, a chess program might be
*deliberately* set up to allow modifying the table, so as to help
figure out what "values" its *opponent* seems to assign to things, so
that it can better predict his moves!

Likewise, a gunnery program would have the user suggesting possible
course changes of his ship or the target. And "tuning" the program
would be a matter of changing "rule sets" for the behavior of enemy
ships based on past experience ("He shows definite signs of
two-dimensional thinking...")

A *lot* of software is wholly or partially "expert systems". And for
those you have the program, and a set of "rules" it uses to obtain
solutions. The rules are "taught" by example in some cases (analyzing
past decisions/battles), and in others the rules are explicitly stated.

Either way, the validity of the expert systm in independent of the rule
set. The rule set is just the program's "experience". And just like a
poorly trained person, a program with a bad rule set will screw up.
Unlike a poorly trained person, you can easily "retrain" the program. 

So I expect that gunnery programs (for example) are pretty standard,
and fairly cheap. The standard ruleset has been well polished by
analyzing centurkies of battles. Even so, there are "custom" rulesets
(or additions to the standard set) that every gunner swears by. 

And of course, Naval vessels and the like have specialized rulesets
available for every ship they expect to encounter. Based on both
analysis of battles, performance, and even psychological "analysis" of
what is known about the officers of the ships!

Of course the players can't afford this, except maybe for a few ships
they keep running into. On the other hand, unless they've made quite a
name for themselves, the Navy won't have them on file either.

BTW, this is another reason why being known as "mercenaries" is a bad
idea. It makes it far more likely that the opposition will have a
"tactics" file on you. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 00:23:43 -0600
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

At 06:20 PM 9/20/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Except that we've not heard from Marc as to whether HE still holds the rights 
>to such material and can legally waive the copy restrictions.
>
>The way he stated it, it seemed only to be his generous OPINION and nothing 
>more.
> The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame

Get over it already.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 02:46:26 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:

> And thank you very much, I *DO* have a 'grip'.

It doesn't seem like it.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:58:50 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thrusters

This raises another point in my thoughts.

(a) how fast can thrusters turn a ship?

(b) how fast can "reaction drive" ships turn?

When working out "to hit" probabilities (as discussed in earlier TML 
postings), during the "detect-fire-hit" time the ship can have moved 
to anywhere in a sphere whose diameter depends on how much acceleration 
and which direction you use it in.  If the ship can only turn 
relatively slowly then it has a much smaller volume to "hide" in.

In the CT days we used to hand wave all of this away ... what did it 
matter if the ships were 30,000 km or 300,000 km distant if the referee 
states "you have a DM of X to hit, you will have reached safety after 
10 turns".  Ship combat was thankfully rare in the CT campaigns I 
played in and ran.

These days, however, my gaming has a much higher gearhead content 
(partially due to computers at home and work), which is why I love FFS, 
Bruce Macintosh's sensor rules and so on.

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:58:52 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

> If a noble or entertainer receives a yacht, 
> does he own it outright, or does he have to make payments on it?

In my opinion of game balance, the character needs to make payments on the yacht 
(or lab ship), but in my view this is hard work to fit into a campaign, as a 
yacht/lab ship is not too good for trading in!

I can make some suggestions based on T4 rules, or I can hark back to earlier 
Traveller rules, or a bit of a mix!  These days, I always go for the option that 
gives a interesting adventure hook.  In Traveller:The New Era a "yacht" could be 
anything from a scout ship to a trader to a "proper" yacht.

Idea 1
======
The daughter is kicked of planet with enough high passages to get to a nearby 
world where her father had some investments.  Her brother has "generously" given 
her ownership of the familiy's (small) investments on the world, knowing them to 
be unsaleable.

When the daughter arrives on the planet she presents her credentials to the 
managing director of the company she now owns 25% of and discovers that she can 
only sell the shares to existing shareholders, none of whom can afford to turn her 
shares into cash.  In fact, the company is doing so badly that it may become 
bankrupt at any time.  One of their latest headaches is the fraud perpetrated by 
the previous captain of the company's free trader "Free Enterprise".  All of the 
old crew had to be sacked because of probable involvement in the fraud.

The MD would love to be able to send one of the shareholders on the ship as "owner 
aboard" with a new crew, but no-one wants the job, unless ... surely *you* don't 
want the job?

Her first problem as "owner aboard" should be to get a crew and start making money 
to repay the ship loan that will otherwise cripple the company.  However, no 
sooner has she travelled to the berth where the ship is than a writ is served by 
the slick lawyer of one of the prevoius crew (a player character) claiming unfair 
dismissal.  The ship is likely to be kept here as "evidence" unless she re-hires 
the crew member at once.  She does not like blackmail, but bankruptcy is an even 
uglier word ...

Idea 2
======
The 50-year-old yacht is fully owned by the character, but it is worth a lot less 
than a new ship.  In fact it is nominally worth 20% of "new" ... which is just 
enough to make the down payment on that brand new, latest-tech free trader she saw 
just the other day ... the original purchaser ran into problems (he died) and the 
bank is looking for a quick re-finance deal.  

A new free trader is just what she wants, she has the business plan all sorted out 
and the bank have given informal approval of the deal.  All she needs is a 
suitable crew ...

Idea 3
======
Swap the 50-year-old yacht for a 50-year-old free trader (there is an old captain 
who wishes to retire, but could never afford a new yacht.  He has enough money to 
fuel and maintain a yacht for many years).



Simon

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 05:18:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Hulls

I have a spreadsheet of hull forms for the basic types and tonnages and armor
values I intend to use for T41 ship design.

I would be happy to email it to anyone requesting it.
Excel for Windows 95 format.

Please request at FarFuture@aol.com

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 02:27:56 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
>
> > Now if we are going to nit-pick legalities, then who's to say any of us have
> > RESALE rights to that material?  Is there a law that states we can?
>
> Yes. Copyright law includes the right to re-sell your copy. You may
> also xerox or otherwise reproduce copies for archival purposes (ie, you
> copy the book, then work from the copies so as to not wear the original
> out). But when you sell, you must either destroy the copies, or
> transfer them along with the original.
>
> This is why so much software has "license agreements". This is an
> attempt to *limit* your rights under copyright law, and many clauses
> may not stand up if seriously challenged by someone who can afford to
> fight through the appeals.
>
>

Thanks for the info Leonard, I had for a long time wondered about such things, but
having no legal background, couldn't answer them myself.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 02:32:10 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Trade or Sell

>PS  And, Marc is probably smarter than other game publishers.  Instead
>of stomping on you for trying to play the game, he encourages it.  He
>figures you'll use the old supplements, in photocopy form if you have
>to, and play his game.  Then you'll have fun with it, and when the new
>T4 supplements come out, you'll want them more because you are already
>playing the game--he dosen't have to draw you away from another game.

>On top of being friendly, I'd say Marc is being a good businessman as
>well.

And he's absolutely right.  When a customer isn't brow-beaten they come
back for more - in this case, more traveller material.  This is the way
I'd run my business as well too.  Profit is one thing, but the world's
largest profit margin is meaningless if there are no buyers.  A lot of
large scale corporate types often forget what Marc knows intrinsically.



- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:22:38 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 lugh1@juno.com wrote:
> have you ever fired a weapon with tracers ? [ yes I know half of us are
> x-mil. ] if you have you would notice that bullets do not have a flat
> tragectory , the rise then fall like a arc . I was surprised first time I

It has been over six months since I left the compulsory Finnish Army
service, but IIRC the barrel of an assault rifle is pointed slightly
upwards. This is done because then the sights can be calibrated for a
certain range. The bullet flies in an arc and hits the target in sights
the designated distance away.

Mikko Parviainen
- ---
You've wasted a great chance to remain silent.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:20:06 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: PE Campaigns

Well the "Questionniare" on 'live' Traveller campaigns got me wondering,
just how many people have on going PE campaigns?

It would be quite interesting to compare the number of live campaigns
with the number of PE campaigns. I somehow have a sneaking suspission that
PE may rival traditional campaigns. So without further ado, could anyone
running a PE campaign fill out the following brief questionnaire.

Length of Campaign in real time:
Length of Campaign in game time:
Number of Players at start:
Number of Players currently:
Region Campaign set:
Milleu Campaign set:

Thank you.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1858
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 21 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1859



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Firearms in Vacuum
NEW TO Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Questions about Traveller
Jump fuel requirements for MT starships
IG Suggestions
Re: Marc's comments
Re: Imperial Military
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: NEW TO Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1854
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Gender Roles and Aslan
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Re: NEW TO Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:24:29 -0400
From: "Mike Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:22:38 +0300 (EET DST)
> From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum
<snipped>
> It has been over six months since I left the compulsory Finnish Army
> service, but IIRC the barrel of an assault rifle is pointed slightly
> upwards. This is done because then the sights can be calibrated for a
> certain range. The bullet flies in an arc and hits the target in sights
> the designated distance away.
> 
Which just had me wondering, are there any modifiers in use for using "iron
sights" under differing gravities. A weapon "sited in" on a 1 gee world
would be less than accurate on a .5 gee world, or a 1.5 gee world, correct?
If so does any one have a chart or formula for the modifiers? They may be
in the rules but I don't see them.

Another question, that I'm sure has been answered before, but since my
system crashed I can't access any of my back information. Can some one send
the planetary size-to-gravity formula? I'm looking for a general rule of
thumb type, discounting planetary make-up (assumption that it is identical
to Terra's).

Thanks
Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:30:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: SWMego@aol.com
Subject: NEW TO Traveller

Hello All,
 I have not played Traveller since 1978! Just the other day a friend at work
and I somehow got on the subject and both realized that we played it nearly
20 years ago! I came home and dug around in the basement until I found my
original boxed set! 5 little black books that have not seen the light of day
in almost 2 decaded.
 To make a long story short I re-read them, and searched around on the web a
bit, now I came across this list!!! What are the new t4 and tne things you
are talking about? Is Traveller still being published under a new compnay? If
so, how can I go about ordering new rule books, etc.
 Any help would be appreciated, we are eager to start a new campaign, but I
would rather do so with whatever is the most current item available!
Thanks...

Derek...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:07:41 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Leonard Erickson writes:
>>The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game why 
>>would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use system of 
>>weights and measures? 
> 
>Ah yes, nice scientific and rational... Like having your unit of mass
>be determined by a hunk of platinum in France. :-)

Not fair, Leonard. The meter was originally defined as 1/10,000,000th of the
distance from the equator to a pole. For a time the stick in Paris defined
the meter, but nowadays it is defined in terms of some wavelength or other,
and you can't get much more scietific than that, can you ;-).


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8
 
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:38:30 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

Garth Dighton writes:

>Given the above, how does piracy operate? The sensors thread seems to 
>indicate that most planets would have sensor capability at least to 
>the hundred-diameter limit, and at that point a ship leaving the 
>system would jump, leaving the pirates unable to attack the ship in 
>privacy. Do they attack the ship in full view of the planet and hope 
>to finish the job before help arrives?? Do they only attack ships on 
>their way to refuel at the gas giant, outside of the planet's sensor 
>range??

Pirates are one of the elements of the Traveller Universe that unfortunately
dosen't make a whole lot of sense. It's a pity, because they are a lovely
evocative motif, but given the way space ships work they are not really
practical except in very specialized circumstances.

1) pirate ships are so expensive that a pirate can sell it and retire in
   comfort without having to risk his life going a-pirating. Also, repair
   bills for damage sustained while attempting the capture can easily
   cost more than the cargo you're trying to capture.

2) Hiding from patrol ships at the 100 diameter limit is impossible. 
   Hiding on a planet means a race to overhaul the prey before it
   reaches the jump limit. Hiding in a Gas Giant means your chance of
   detecting a refuelling ship is very small (A Gas Giant is big; the
   chance that a ship will decide to refuel close to where you are
   lurking is not very big).

3) A single high-population world can produce enough patrol ships to
   place one at the jump limit of every world in a sector. Certainly
   piracy in any system with a reasonable population and TL is
   impossible, but piracy in remote systems are almost as difficult.


James Lindsay replies:

>Piracy often takes place in and around gas giants, but can take place
>elsewhere.  Just because something takes place within the 100 diameter
>limit does not necessarily mean that the local authorities can get
>there in time to prevent it.

If the local authorities have a few patrol ships, they can place one near
the jump limit and create a safe arrival and departure zone.
 
>I believe that the Yacht is owned outright, while the Lab ship is most
>likely part of a government or corporate grant provided to the
>scientist and is purely on loan.

But if your campaign plan requires some other arrangement, use some other
arrangement. The rules are there to help you, not to hinder you. 
 
>Allow the character to begin play with the yacht at the moment she is
>kicked off planet.  Selling the yacht and buying a trader could then
>make a very interesting game session or two (she could even meet her
>soon-to-be crew during these game sessions).  

Good idea.

And Kenneth Bearden replies:

>For most ships, especially those with 1 G maneuver drives, it is several
>hours from the point they enter normal space in a system to the
>destination planet.  This gives pirates plenty of opportunity to pounce
>on some prey.

Not so, Kenneth. Disregarding the fact that catching a 1G ship before it
reaches the jump limit (or the 10 diamiter limit if things get desperate)
even with a 3G ship isn't trivial, the real problem is that an interstellar
state with just a single high-population planet can built enough ships to
make piracy _very_ hazardous.
  
>Just because the ship is in communication with the starport, it doesn't
>mean that there is a patrol ship close enough to intercede in the fight.

If there is one stationed at the jump limit, then it and the merchant ship
are closing at 4G while the pirate is overtaking at 2 G.
 
>Many times, pirates will attack. The victim ship will radio in.  Minutes
>later the message is received at the star port (communication travels at
>light speed, which can still take it some time at those distances).  A
>ship is dispatched (if there is any there to dispatch--many times the
>answer to this is no.  The pirates usually know where the picking is
>good).  By the time the rescue ship gets to the downed ship, the pirates
>are gone out with there loot.

If the pickings are good then all the more reason to station a ship there.
Pirates only thrive when the number of places they can lie in wait for
prey vastly outnumbers the number of navy ships out looking for them.
That would not be the case around most planets with any sort of population.

>Now, as a GM, you can get real creative with this.  Is there a patrol
>vessel within range to intercede with the pirate attack? Is this attack
>taking place in an asteroid belt where there are plenty places for
>pirates to attack?  Maybe the attack took place as the victim ship was
>trying to refuel at the gas giant, and the pirates caught the ship on
>the far side of the planet--where there is not line of sight between the
>ship and the starport, effectively blocking communications.

Stationing a patrol ship (or a dozen) near a Gas Giant is not much of a
problem. Though why anyone should do that when no merchant would bother
to refuel at one if he had any choice is a question in itself.

I suppose that in Milieu 0 there may be some trade routes where merchant
ships will have to refuel at gas giants, but they would be few enough
that there wouild be plenty of patrol ships available to cover them.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:09:08 -0400
From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
Subject: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships

When designing ships using MT rules, I find that jump fuel
requirements are too high. The formula for this is:
jump fuel volume : X5 (67,5 kiloliters per jump unit)
I find the X 5 is a bit high. And why 67,5 ????
How does this system measure up to TNE and T4??? (or other starship
design systems, such as FFS...)
I'd like to thank Michael for his input on power plant fuel
requirements and fixes for this.

ciao,

Denis Allain
New-Brunswick, Canada
mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:21:11 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: IG Suggestions

>Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:31:09 EDT
>From: lugh1@juno.com
>Subject: Re: IG Suggestions

>clap , clap , clap .

>bravo man . and I agree !

>jim

Yeah, me too.
Martin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:18:21 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Marc's comments

Could it be that what Marc is saying is just... exactly what he's saying?
That he personally thinks it's OK to use a photocopy if you can't find a
'real' copy of your own. That's his opinion as the Person Most Likely To
Get Miffed And Take Action.

I'm reminded of something Dave Nilsen said to me once - that Roleplaying is
a funny field where copyright gets a bit fuzzy. A group of eight players
all passing a single rulebook around, using it to generate characters etc -
that borders upon the 'All rights reserved, no part of this book..." etc
prohibition we see in the front of most fiction and non-fiction books (it's
not there in Pocket Empires, the first Trav book that came to hand.)

Now I'd object strongly to someone photocopying my books (non-gaming
related) because I want folks to buy them. Copying a few pages for
reference is legal, and OK in my opinion. But not the whole book.

Now, supposing in 20 years I'd done a new edition, with lots of the
information in the present edition left out. I'd not object to someone
getting a copy of the old book for reference - if I were sufficiently
confident that the new version was better by a big enough margin to still
be desirable. Still technically not legal, but it wouldn't hurt me, so if
somebody wanted the information and couldn't get a real copy because it'd
gone out of print, then fine. I'd take no action.

Distributing copies for a fee - THAT I'd jump on!

I'd guess Marc's position is similar. He wrote Traveller because he wanted
to play it. If, 20 years on, people STILL want the original materials - and
there's no chance of a reprint - then let's be realistic. A few people
exchanging photocopies isn't going to hurt - in fact it'll help maintain
interest. I think it's still illegal, though, so don't advertise what
you're doing too loudly. Most of the people who want CT/MT material are
Collectors (yes, capital C - the ones who just have to own everything).
They'll still want the books, so where's the harm?

If it starts to hurt IG, then that's another matter.

But if a few people wanted my books badly enough to hunt down out-of-date
imprints and copy them 20 years on, I'd be flattered. Just so long as they
were buying the new ones too!

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:55:36 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Imperial Military

John Atkinson wrote:
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >seperate me and a soldier form Dallas when we were roomates.  Seems
> putting
> >a Cowboys fan and a 493r Faithful in the same room was a mistake
> during
> >football season...
> 
> Amen!
> 
> >I wrote up a description of how the Army is staffed, funded, and
> organized
> >a while ago.. if anyone is interested, I could repost it.
> 
> Please do so.
> 
> John M. Atkinson

Yes, please repost it

Alex Ingram

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:37:38 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

At 05:38 PM 9/21/97 +0200, Hans Rancke wrote:

>Garth Dighton writes:
>
>>Given the above, how does piracy operate? The sensors thread seems to 
>>indicate that most planets would have sensor capability at least to 
>>the hundred-diameter limit, and at that point a ship leaving the 
>>system would jump, leaving the pirates unable to attack the ship in 
>>privacy. Do they attack the ship in full view of the planet and hope 
>>to finish the job before help arrives?? Do they only attack ships on 
>>their way to refuel at the gas giant, outside of the planet's sensor 
>>range??
>
>Pirates are one of the elements of the Traveller Universe that unfortunately
>dosen't make a whole lot of sense. It's a pity, because they are a lovely
>evocative motif, but given the way space ships work they are not really
>practical except in very specialized circumstances.

The trick is setting up those circumstances well...

>1) pirate ships are so expensive that a pirate can sell it and retire in
>   comfort without having to risk his life going a-pirating. Also, repair
>   bills for damage sustained while attempting the capture can easily
>   cost more than the cargo you're trying to capture.

IMNSHO, one of the worst Traveller designs was the corasir.. IMTU, pirates
operate out of small scouts and traders, and depend on stealth and guile.

>2) Hiding from patrol ships at the 100 diameter limit is impossible. 
>   Hiding on a planet means a race to overhaul the prey before it
>   reaches the jump limit. Hiding in a Gas Giant means your chance of
>   detecting a refuelling ship is very small (A Gas Giant is big; the
>   chance that a ship will decide to refuel close to where you are
>   lurking is not very big).

Unless you also sneak two crew members aboard the target ship to try a
hijacking at the time you are manuvering to intercept.

>3) A single high-population world can produce enough patrol ships to
>   place one at the jump limit of every world in a sector. Certainly
>   piracy in any system with a reasonable population and TL is
>   impossible, but piracy in remote systems are almost as difficult.

Which is why, historically, pirates operated far away from the big powers,
and tried to gain legitmacy by becoming privateers.  You're not going to
find pirates around Rhylanor, they'll be sneaking around the smaller
systems, waiting for a target of oppotunity.

Most pirates are also legitimate merchants, who have decided to add a
source of income that is frowned upon.

>James Lindsay replies:
>
>>Piracy often takes place in and around gas giants, but can take place
>>elsewhere.  Just because something takes place within the 100 diameter
>>limit does not necessarily mean that the local authorities can get
>>there in time to prevent it.
>
>If the local authorities have a few patrol ships, they can place one near
>the jump limit and create a safe arrival and departure zone.

Except that the 100-diameter limit for Earth is a sphere with a surface are
of roughly 5.2x10^12 km.... quite an area to patrol effectively!

>And Kenneth Bearden replies:

>>Many times, pirates will attack. The victim ship will radio in.  Minutes
>>later the message is received at the star port (communication travels at
>>light speed, which can still take it some time at those distances).  A
>>ship is dispatched (if there is any there to dispatch--many times the
>>answer to this is no.  The pirates usually know where the picking is
>>good).  By the time the rescue ship gets to the downed ship, the pirates
>>are gone out with there loot.
>
>If the pickings are good then all the more reason to station a ship there.
>Pirates only thrive when the number of places they can lie in wait for
>prey vastly outnumbers the number of navy ships out looking for them.
>That would not be the case around most planets with any sort of population.

Piracy will be a transitory problem.. lasting a few months at most until
the locals/Imperium shift enough assets to deal with the situation.  The
smart pirate captain makes a hit and moves on, the dumb ones.. well. let's
just say they roll a "2" on the CT Survival roll....

     
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:23:13 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller

On Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:30:04 -0400 (EDT), SWMego@aol.com wrote:

> Hello All,
>  I have not played Traveller since 1978! Just the other day a friend at work
> and I somehow got on the subject and both realized that we played it nearly
> 20 years ago! I came home and dug around in the basement until I found my
> original boxed set! 5 little black books that have not seen the light of day
> in almost 2 decaded.
>  To make a long story short I re-read them, and searched around on the web a
> bit, now I came across this list!!! What are the new t4 and tne things you
> are talking about? Is Traveller still being published under a new compnay? If
> so, how can I go about ordering new rule books, etc.
>  Any help would be appreciated, we are eager to start a new campaign, but I
> would rather do so with whatever is the most current item available!

You can find out all about the latest incarnation of Traveller (aka:
T4) at the following URL:

http://www.imperiumgames.com/

T4 is designed by Imperium Games, headed by Marc Miller after GDW
closed its doors two years ago (TNE stood for "Traveller: The New Era"
and it was the last incarnation of Traveller put out by GDW).  Both
Marc (CardSharks@aol.com) and Loren (GDWGames@aol.com) post on this
list from time to time.

TNE is much more complicated than T4 and was built around the rules
system that GDW was using for all of their roleplaying games
(Twilight: 2000 most notably).  Some people claim that it isn't "real"
Traveller because a few things were changed since the previous
incarnation of the game (like replacing thruster plates with actual
reaction drives).  TNE was very well written... it was just a pretty
big step from CT (Classic Traveller) and MT (MegaTraveller).

T4 was written by Marc Miller last summer in an attempt to bring back
the classic "feel" of the 1977 game.  It is far from a simple
reprinting of the original CT rules, however.  It is simpler in design
than TNE, but future source books like "Fire, Fusion, and Steel (T4
edition)" will allow players to add complexity as they see fit.

Be forewarned, however.  There is much debate on this list as to the
quality of T4 merchandise at the moment.  "Starships" and "First
Survey" were *not* well received by the Traveller public at all, and
some of IG's other releases have not done much better.  "First Survey"
and "Milieu 0" are to be combined into a single hardback tome in the
next month or so called "Milieu 0 Campaign" and I believe "Starships"
is also going to be rehashed for a second printing.

I would recommend continuing with your little black books for the next
few months until the second printing of the T4 rules are released
(destined "T4.1").  T4.1 should fix many of the problems with the
original T4.  After that, I would recommend looking at any of the
other books first, *before* you buy them.  If this isn't possible
where you live this mailing list has many members that are willing to
describe them in more detail for you.

Good luck and welcome to the fold!  If you kept your greeting message
from this list (and you did, didn't you :), you can use the
information provided to search the list archives as well.



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:55:49 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1854

How do I get back issues of the digest? I had a problems with my browser
and had to reinstall it recently and lost all my digests in the hold
directory. Any suggestions?

Alex Ingram
ingram@airmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:59:20 +0000
From: "Garth Dighton" <gdighton@elite.net>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

On 21 Sep 97 at 6:40, Simon Early wrote:

> From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller
> 
> > If a noble or entertainer receives a yacht, 
> > does he own it outright, or does he have to make payments on it?
> 
> In my opinion of game balance, the character needs to make payments on the yacht
> (or lab ship), but in my view this is hard work to fit into a campaign, as a
> yacht/lab ship is not too good for trading in!
> 
> I can make some suggestions based on T4 rules, or I can hark back to earlier
> Traveller rules, or a bit of a mix!  These days, I always go for the option that
> gives a interesting adventure hook.  In Traveller:The New Era a "yacht" could be
> anything from a scout ship to a trader to a "proper" yacht.
> 
[SNIP 3 _Great_ ideas]
These ideas look great. Thanks! I will probably use the third, for 
simplicity, so we can get right into the main part of the campaign, 
although the first idea is pretty good!

Also thanks to the others who have answered my questions, including:
jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
"Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>

Garth Dighton
gdighton@elite.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:01:55 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Gender Roles and Aslan

Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:16:21 -0400 (EDT), GDWGAMES@aol.com
>>Well, given the fact that even genetically determined roles sometimes
>>get "mixed", I'd suspect that the Aslan would have some provision for
>>the (rare) male or female with the wrong "program". Most likely the
>>male computer programmer would have been "ritually" made a female, and
>>vice versa for the female warrior.

>There might or might not be much ritual to it.

>A female friend of mine (married to a male friend of mine) was crew chief at
>an archeoligical excavation in Turkey about 20 years ago. There was some
>trouble with the local Turkish laborers taking orders from a woman, until the
>Turks decided that wearing jeans and a work shirt made her an honorary man,
>and that solved the problem.

But these are humans, Aslan are suppose to be aliens.  They will have
variation, but it will be about a standard that is fundamentally
different than the human.  They may range from being unable to even
concieve of crossing gender rolls (a male stands around on a sinking
ship becuase there is "nothing he can do") to those who allow the
lines to be blured (like women shooting artillery direct fire) or
emergency exceptions.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:34:11 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> Well, partially it'd be a case of just porting the old software to new
> hardware, which if the hardware is "provably correct", gives you a
> speed increase without any increase in bugs. 

	Ok its acepted for the Tl11 to 12 step which is only an
	improvement of dynamical linked systems. But I'm asuming
	many bugs in Tl13 and Tl10 experimental systems. Going
	from computer linked to dynamlical linked to holographical
	linked systems should be major steps. Some classical CT
	adventures ploted the problems of Tl17 (experimental available
	at Tl16) synaptical linked systems. I think experimental
	holographical linked systems in the ealy 3I had quite similar
	problems.

> Then you do the "usual" painstaking correctness proofs for any software

	I still dont know if there would ever be "mathematical correct"
	software. Perhaps "God" invented the universe plan just because
	she saw that the evolutionary aproach is the only solution ;-)
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:26:16 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

Moin Leonard Erickson,

> And of course, Naval vessels and the like have specialized rulesets
> available for every ship they expect to encounter. Based on both
> analysis of battles, performance, and even psychological "analysis" of
> what is known about the officers of the ships!

	" We know that the oponent has a Gazelle Class Escord
	  vessel. The Gazelle has two main movements: Spin around
	  to enable both lasers for deflection shouting, while
	  going up/down closing evasion for enabling both barbetts
	  to act as a battery.

	  We also know that comander Jamson prefers a high rate
	  if fire, so we should exspect a spin of at least once
	  per minute and up down evasions between 2 minutes and
	  30 seconds, while total thrust is under 3.5G. We also
	  know that the oponents crew is crack, so expect era
	  ivas at least any 5 minutes.

	  Sorry that I was forced to disclose this mission while
	  in jump space, you have about 6 days to reprogram our
	  evasion/fire control rulesets, so that we can make best
	  from this knowledge. "

- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:09:47 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller

SWMego@aol.com wrote:

>  To make a long story short I re-read them, and searched around on the web a
> bit, now I came across this list!!!

Welcome, Traveller!

 What are the new t4 and tne things you
> are talking about?

First,there was Traveller in the late 70's and early 80's.  We refer to
it as Classic Traveller now, or CT--like classic coke or classic Trek.

This era covered the years 1100-1115 or so in Imperial history.

Then, all hell broke loose in 1116 when the Emperor Strephon was
assassinated!  The Imperium broke into several factions, and a second
Civil War started.

It was devestating.  This era in the Imperial calendar was hearalded by
a second edition of Traveller.  The game was 10 years old, and it was
time for a new rules set.  A task system was introduced, and much of the
CT rules were revamped.

This was called MegaTraveller.  We refer to it on this list as MT.

The war raged on, with no resolution in site.  The elements basically
fought themselves to death.  By 1120-1130, the Imperium reached an era
called Hard Times.  This was a subset of MegaTraveller, and it used the
MT rules.  You could see a noticeable difference in the
Imperium--namely, there wasn't one.  The Imperium's enemies attacked
from all sides.  The Vargr invaded and captured many worlds on the
Imperium's coreward border.

Imperial citizens did what they could to survive.

And, it never got better.  During the war, a doomsday weapon was
released.  It was a computer virus that developed true artificial
intelligence.  It got into everything and destroyed everything in its
path.

Whole planets,dependent on protection from hostile atmospheres (or no
atmosphere) were destroyed when the Virus infected them.  Billions died.

This is the era of Traveller:  The New Era, or TNE as we call it.  The
Imperium goes through a period like the Long Night, and it is just
coming out of it.  People are starting to explore the neighboring star
systems again.  Pocket Empires are reaching out, trying to establish
trade agreements.  Pirates are taking advantage of the situation.  It is
live or be killed.

This was the third edition of Traveller.  GDW totally revamped the
rules, which proved to be very unpopular with many old time Traveller
fans.  The rules now were converted to GDW's house system, the system it
used for Twilight 2000 and other games.  Gone were the standard D6's. 
In were the D10's and D20's.

The TNE rules are very detailed, but the price paid was that it would
take you an hour to get through a simple one on one fight.

The TNE era begins in the year 1220--a hundred years after the origianal
CT Imperium was set.

Then, disaster struck for our favorite RPG.  GDW closed it's doors and
went out of business.

But, there was light at the end of the tunnel.  The rights for Traveller
reverted to the games creator, Marc Miller (who frequents this list with
questions for input as he designs T4 items).

Marc's company is Far Future Enterprises.  The company created to
publish Traveller stuff is Imperium Games, or IG.

Last August, the fourth edition of Traveller came out, called Marc
Miller's Traveller.  On this list, we refer to it as T4.

The idea here is to go back to Traveller's roots.  The game is based on
CT, with a face lift similar to the one done by MT.  A task system is
used, but many of the original CT game rules are keep intact.  The D6's
make their return.

T4 is really just updated CT, and many of your old CT items were work
with little or no conversion to the new game.

Marc's plan is to release products for many different Traveller eras--or
milieus.  Right now, there are several T4 products out (IG has been very
ambitious--there are over 15 products out since last August!).  All of
them are directed towards a specific part of Traveller history--Milieu
0, or M0.

This is the year 0 in the Imperium.  Cleon has just established the new
Imperium--coming out of the Long Night.

The M0 era will be from the year 0-200.  Then, as I understand it now, a
new milieu will be released--M200.  We'll learn about the Aslan Border
wars and such.

Somewhere down the road, there is supposed to be several milieu for
Traveller players to choose from and play in.  Do you want to play
during the first Civil War?  How about during the Solomani Rim war? 
During the Psionic Suppressions?

Whatever, it all sounds like fun.

And, that's the scoop.

Kenneth.


 Is Traveller still being published under a new compnay? If
> so, how can I go about ordering new rule books, etc.
>  Any help would be appreciated, we are eager to start a new campaign, but I
> would rather do so with whatever is the most current item available!
> Thanks...
> 
> Derek...

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1859
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 21 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1860



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re:Turbine-Flywheel engines
The Imperial Army (repost)
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Re: IG Suggestions
Re: NEW TO Traveller
Re: Marc's comments
races info wanted
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1854
Re: Why starmaps are 2d
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
RE: Coping (and copying) and other legal stuff
Re: Thrust to Mass for Photon Drives
Re: NEW TO Traveller
Ship Design Question
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Copyright apology...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:43:27 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:Turbine-Flywheel engines

James wrote:

>Anyone interested in the developing technologies regarding
>turbine-flywheel motor design should check out www.rosenmotors.com.

Thoughts on flywheel energy storage systems...

1) FFS2 ignores one of the principle advantages of FESS over
electrochemical cells, namely the lack of a cycling/deep discharge life
problem. They are in the rules as accumulators...

2) The technology is modular (usually). Ignore most of the energy and power
density figures quoted by manufactures of both FESS and electrochemical
cells, as they both tend to ignore support infrastructure, FESS less so.

3) Companies to keep an eye on - Trinity Flywheel in San Francisco (aligned
with Lawrence Livermore, and thus Richard Post, one of the pioneers in the
field), Satcon (they appear to have the *bearing* technology, and
International Energy Systems (UK).

I won't say much about the latter apart from I personally believe that they
have the edge in the time to deployment. But there again, they employ me.
(When the website goes on line I'll post the address if anyone wants it).

Richard Post's stuff is well worth reading.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:19:46 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: The Imperial Army (repost)

For purposes of examining the Army as a mature force, and since it's where
my campaign is set, the example we will be looking at is the Lunion
Subsector of the Spinward Marches in 1105.  To start at the top, we have:

ARMY SUPREME COMMAND (Capital/Core)

This is the highest command authority for the Imperial Army.  This command
is concerned with the long range planning and defense of the entire
Imperium.  This unit organizes all R&D, mass equipment upgrades, and
changes in Army doctrine and regulations.  It has little say in the
day-to-day managing of line units; in fact it controls only one unit
directly: The Imperial Guard.

DOMAIN COMMAND: DENEB (Depot/Deneb)

Even though the Domain of Deneb does not have an archduke in 1105, the Army
maintains a level of command for the purpose of strategic planning "behind
the claw."  Officers assigned here have a better focus on the problems and
threats facing their area of operations.

Deneb Command also oversees the allocation of Imperial funds to the Sector
forces.  Many worlds in the Imperial Core do not bother with extensive
military development, and pay into a general fund rather than raising units
that are three years from the border in the first place.  The Supreme
Command allocates this money as block grants to the domains, who use it to
fund projects of local need.  Many times, this money is passed down the
line with no strings attached.  This is generally the case in Deneb, due to
the wildly varying threats the region faces.

Domain level commands control a small group of elite troops, rarely more
than a division, who act as a "fire brigade" for the command.  Since this
is traditionally the Marine mission, there is a great deal of friction over
these units' existence.

SPINWARD MARCHES HIGH COMMAND (Rhylanor/Rhylanor)

The sector high command is the highest level of command that directly
commands regular Army units.  In a wartime situation, units leaving their
home Subsector come under the control of the sector command for the
duration of their transit.  Leaving this control only when the unit either
returns home or is handed off to a local command for combat.  The sector
command controls the reserves and logistics for the Army when it mobilizes.

The sector command also distributes funding to the Subsector Armies.  Since
planning is done decades in advance, each Subsector force submits an annual
update on its projected needs over the next ten years.  Budget allocations
are made based on both these figures, and on the needs of the sector as a
whole.

The sector command controls the strategic reserve for the sector.  This
consists of all Army units out of their home Subsector and in transit, as
well as all colonial forces (see below) committed to action.

LUNION ARMY HEADQUARTERS (Lunion/Lunion)

The Subsector Army is the heart of the Imperial defense.  Each Subsector
crafts its force to meet its unique needs and threats.  Lunion's main
threat is seen as the Sword Worlds Confederation.  Most of Lunion's
planning is based around a series of scenarios concerning a SWC attack on
the Spinward worlds of the Subsector.  Subsector command also gathers
intelligence about enemy activities and intentions; passing these nuggets
of information to Navy Intelligence in an attempt to paint a complete
picture of what is happening beyond the Imperial border.

Subsector Headquarters is where the actual purchasing of equipment takes
place.  Within guidelines from higher headquarters, each Subsector is
pretty free to equip its forces as it likes.  This leads to some oddities,
like Five Sister's small but potent Army, universally equipped with
battledress and fusion weapons.  Lunion has steered a more predictable
course; building fairly standard TL14-15 tank and infantry units.  As is
true for most Spinward Marches commands, Lunion Army makes sure that all
vehicles and personal armor are equipped with mind-shields in case of
conflict with telepathic Zhodani troops.

Operationally, the Army HQ coordinates the actions of its forces, plus
those assigned to it by higher command, in the defense of the Subsector.
If offensive operations are called for, Lunion forces may be seconded to
the assault force at the Sector Command's discretion.

The current commander of the Lunion Army is General Oiwaeas, an Aslan from
Strouden.  A 30-year veteran, Oiwaeas is a decorated veteran of the 4th
Frontier War, as well as innumerable border incidents with the Sword
Worlders.  Oiwaeas is much beloved by his troops as a fighting leader, and
his sense of humor is legendary.  (During one incident, a Sword World
commander insinuated that Oiwaeas need to go to the "cat box."  After
learning from an aide what was meant by the insult, Oiwaeas made a point of
dumping sand over the defeated SW officer's head, remarking "I understand
this is the proper thing for a cat to do with its waste."  To this day his
personal command vehicle is nicknamed CatBox.)

THE STROUDENESE ROYAL ARMY (Strouden/Lunion)

This is where the troops and tanks are found.  Strouden is a Hi-pop,
Industrial world of the Lunion Subsector.  Its total population is
8.3x10^9; mostly human with a significant (6%) Aslan minority.  The planet
is ruled by a constitutional monarchy.  The Grand Prince controls the
various government agencies, who operate as a meritocracy.

Strouden's Planetary Defense Force has approx. 7 million soldiers active at
any one time.  An additional 5 million can be found as reservists, home
guards, and local militias.

10% of the Strouden Army is pledged to the Imperial Army.  These units
receive TL14-15 equipment and training.  This amounts to 35 division sized
units (25 Lift Infantry, 10 Grav Tank) and a smattering of specialist units
(1 Rapid Interface Infantry Brigade, several battalion and smaller Civil
Action, Intelligence, Heavy Engineer, etc.)

The remainder of the units are organized as the Royal Stroudenese Army.
This formidable force can field 12 Field Armies equipped to TL13 standard,
along with 2 Corps equipped to TL14 (The Grand Prince's Guards and The
Landing Warders)

The local Imperial units and the RSA engage in regular wargames against one
another.  The RSA maintains a training area staffed by troops who use Sword
Worlds tactics and equipment for a realistic training environment; and many
Imperial units, both Marine and Army have praised it for the realism of the
exercises.

Although the Imperial element of Strouden's forces is answerable to the
Subsector command, the local government always has the right to veto any
off-world deployment.  This is a risky move, as it invites Imperial
displeasure, and any world making such a stand would best be ready to
present a very convincing case before the Moot.

The Imperial Army units on Strouden are fed, paid, clothed, and housed by
the RSA.  The Imperium picks up the bill for the high tech equipment and
training/deployment costs.  This benefits the Royal government greatly,
since they get a high-tech resident force at little expense to themselves.

COLONIAL FORCES

In times of great peril, such as a major war, planetary forces may be
volunteered for Imperial service.  Such forces are referred to as "Colonial
Units," and are generally considered to be of a lesser quality than
front-line troops.  Regardless, these troops can take a great deal of
pressure off harried commanders by assuming garrison and security roles,
freeing up units for the front lines.  Since these are not Imperial units,
their equipment and training can vary wildly, making it hazardous to mix
them with Imperial units.  During the 4th Frontier War, there was one
recorded case of an Imperial Marine point-defense system firing on
approaching colonials because their non-standard G-carriers were not in the
fire control computer's memory.

Comments? Questions?

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 21 Sep 1997 19:48:49 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

>I'm waiting for the sequel to "Great King's War" (which is a sequel to
>"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen").

I didn't know there was a sequel to Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen.  Is it still in
print?  Any idea where I can order a copy?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:17:53 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

	you guys all need to lighten up ! its not like the guy wanted
advice on mugging ol' ladies or robbing conveniance stores . he wanted
some one to share information about a out of print book . besides where
does all of this tie into traveller the RPG ? So unless one of you is a
cop and intends to arrest this hienous criminal please let the subject
drop . or at least take it to private e-mail .


chip

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:28:38 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: IG Suggestions

MJ Dougherty wrote:

> >Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 01:31:09 EDT
> >From: lugh1@juno.com
> >Subject: Re: IG Suggestions
>
> >clap , clap , clap .
>
> >bravo man . and I agree !
>
> >jim
>
> Yeah, me too.
> Martin

 Add my vote as well.  Great idea.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:38:51 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller

Are there any plans for Traveller games on the PC?  I have Megatraveller
1, The Zhodani Conspiracy, and Megatraveller 2, Quest for the Ancients.
Neither one is very well done though, and nearly un-playable without a
mouse.  I'm hoping they plan on some hefty, cool, multi-media release on
the level of Imperium Galactica.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:32:33 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Marc's comments

Yes, I'd have to admit, I'm a collecter.  And I eventually want ALL the
Classic Traveller books in my library.  After that, I wouldn't part with
them for any price.

Another thing that makes RPG copy right stuff different is the fact that
RPG people are a lot more dedicated and loyal to their sources, and
wouldn't normally do things to harm the company making the supplements.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:53:59 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: races info wanted

Hy folks,

	I need addtional information about :

	Race					Source I need
	-----------------------------------------------------
	Ael Jael from Jaeyelya/Gushmege 0437	JTAS 15
	Loeskalth (Sky Raiders)			TTC 5
	Suerrat from Ilelish 2907		no clue
	Jonkeereen				MTJ 3
	Vlazhumecta				TTC 5

	( about the Jonkeereen, I know the Regency Sourcebook info,
	  have even writen a scenario around, now I found that they
	  came from Gushemege in antebellum 500-3I developed by SUSag )
	
By Michael
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:37:37 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

On 21 Sep 97 at 2:46, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:
> 
> > And thank you very much, I *DO* have a 'grip'.
> 
> It doesn't seem like it.

See.  I told you that you wouldn't apologize.
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:37:37 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

On 21 Sep 97 at 0:23, Sanders wrote:

> At 06:20 PM 9/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >Except that we've not heard from Marc as to whether HE still holds the
> >rights to such material and can legally waive the copy restrictions.
> >
> >The way he stated it, it seemed only to be his generous OPINION and
> >nothing more.

> Get over it already.

I will if you will.
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:06:54 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1854

On Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:55:49 -0500, Alex Ingram wrote:

> How do I get back issues of the digest? I had a problems with my browser
> and had to reinstall it recently and lost all my digests in the hold
> directory. Any suggestions?

To quote from the mail you receive upon subscribing to this list:


<<
The digests generated by the list are archived on ftp.MPGN.COM in the
Gaming/SciFi/Traveller/TML directory.  Login as either "ftp" or
"anonymous" and supply your email address for the password.
>>





James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:12:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: Re: Why starmaps are 2d

In a message dated 97-09-20 22:04:01 EDT, you write:

<< I read a review of Universe when it came out; the reviewer really, really
 didn't like the mapping system and thought it was unplayable.
 I didn't buy it as a result (also, I was pre-teen at that point,
 and was just starting to actively wargame).  I would love to have
 someone who has it post some details so we can take a look in
 retrospect and analyze it...
  >>

Funny, when I finally made the choice to purchase a Sci-Fi Role-Playing Game,
Universe was the only one on hand when visiting the bookstore.  I grabbed it
and thought overall it worked (it's been a LONG time since I looked at the
details of the game some forgive me if my hindsight is covered by rosey
glasses!).  I only lamented the fact that I didn't have DeltaVee to build
ships or play ANY type of space combat (anyone got a good connection on a
copy of this?)

As for the map, depends on how much effort you want to go through.  The bulk
of the map was a large circle showing space up to 30LY away from our sun.
 Every star was listed with the X, Y, and Z coordinate so you could calculate
distance between any two stars (formula given at bottom left of page) - being
a math buff this was enough for me.  To try to give you some perception of it
(never could myself), they divided regions of the Z coordinates ("above" and
"under" the page itself) with colors: red stars were further than 10LY above
the plane represented by the page, Yellow was the XY plane up to 10LY above,
etc.  THEN, if that wasn't enough, a bulk of what they considered the major
stars (I presume becuase they had the best chance of producing interesting
systems?) are listed in a "distance finder" type graph you'd find on a state
map or something similar.  So these just outright told you how far the
distance was for those two points.  I suppose you could easily create some
type of cargo-liner routes that only used the stars listed as nodes.

Other than that, I remember LOTS of charts and map helps for the different
size worlds, modifiers for how far the environ you were currently in differed
from your home environ, Occupation kits (with "retirement" benefits), what
seemed to be odd combat resolution gyrations you had to do (characters lost a
varying number of points to differing characteristics themselves), and 40 not
quite detailed enough creatures to throw at players.  The book had one
example adventure, but no real GM helps to create their own adventures.

OK, so maybe my memories ARE stilted, but it sure beat the alternatives!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:31:36 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

On 21 Sep 97 at 17:17, lugh1@juno.com wrote:

>  you guys all need to lighten up ! its not like the guy wanted
> advice on mugging ol' ladies or robbing conveniance stores . he wanted
> some one to share information about a out of print book . besides where
> does all of this tie into traveller the RPG ? So unless one of you is a
> cop and intends to arrest this hienous criminal please let the subject
> drop . or at least take it to private e-mail .

I agree.

Let all talk of illegal activity go to email.
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:42:34 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: RE: Coping (and copying) and other legal stuff

> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:27:16 +0000
> From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff
> 
> Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:
> 
> > Except that we've not heard from Marc as to whether HE still holds the
rights
> > to such material and can legally waive the copy restrictions.
> > 
> > The way he stated it, it seemed only to be his generous OPINION and
nothing
> > more.

My understanding is that when GDW dissolved, the copyrights for all
published Traveller materials reverted to Marc. Therefore, if this is
correct, he does indeed have the right to give such permission.


> I haven't been saying anything because I was trying to be nice, but,
> Jesus Christ guy, get a grip!

I'm not sure this is really helpful to the discussion....

Allen
 

------------------------------

Date: 21 Sep 1997 01:58:33 -0400
From: edgar@beckett.rmaonline.net (Mr. Whipple)
Subject: Re: Thrust to Mass for Photon Drives

</lurk> Howdy, folks.

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

> But the problem is that the energy in a beam of photons that'll give
> one ton of thrust is enough to carve up asteroids with. It's a bit
> impractical. 

Not necessarily. If you're deliberately sloppy about keeping the beam
properly collimated (focussed with no convergence or divergence), it
would only be dangerous for a few [dozen,thousand,zillion] kilometers
behind the ship. There'd be some loss in thrust efficiency, but you
can pay for the extra fuel you need with what you save in liability
insurance. :)

Imagine the headaches for the folks over at Orbital Traffic Control.
They not only have to make sure nobody runs into anybody else, but
they have to keep everyone's thrust vectors from pointing at anybody
else's present *or future* location (speed of light problem). Ouch.

- -- 
Edgar Whipple            This is my signature.
ewhipple@rma.edu         It's not much, but it's all I have.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:53:11 -0400
From: "Mike Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller

- ----------
>> TNE is much more complicated than T4 and was built around the rules
> system that GDW was using for all of their roleplaying games
> (Twilight: 2000 most notably).  Some people claim that it isn't "real"
> Traveller because a few things were changed since the previous
> incarnation of the game (like replacing thruster plates with actual
> reaction drives).  TNE was very well written... it was just a pretty
> big step from CT (Classic Traveller) and MT (MegaTraveller).
> It is simpler in design
> than TNE, but future source books like "Fire, Fusion, and Steel (T4
> edition)" will allow players to add complexity as they see fit.

Fire,Fusion, and Steel for T4 is currently out. It adds dimension to many
aspects of Traveller ship and vehicle creation that were not present in the
original incarnation. But not as much as FFS1 (for the New Era rules). It
also suffers somewhat from Imperium Games chronic proofreading problems but
is well worth a look if you enjoy "gearheading", i.e. equiptment design. 

>.  "First Survey"
> and "Milieu 0" are to be combined into a single hardback tome in the
> next month or so called "Milieu 0 Campaign" and I believe "Starships"
> is also going to be rehashed for a second printing.

Milieu 0 Campaign is also out. The first part of the book is detailed
information concerning the founding of the Third Emperium. The 3I
(shorthand reference) has been the setting of Traveller throughout it's
existance. With the latest version Marc and Co. have travelled back in time
to the founding of the Third Imperium. The original Taveller (CT for short)
was set in the early 1100's, approximately 1000 years after the current
setting. The second part of the book gives detailed Universal World Profile
data about the major sectors surrounding the new Imperium. Unfortunately
this section of the book could have bennifited from some more attention in
the reprint (IMHO=in my humble opinion). There are a lot of "problems" such
as tech levels that seem overly high, and worse, form my point of view,
many of the worlds depicted have starports listed that are top or near top
class, more than capable of constructing starships, in a time frame where
the Scouts of the new Imperium are supposedly making recontact with worlds
cut off for almost 2000 years. But this is just my opinion and if you
continue with this lists you WILL see plenty of varying opinions ;)

> I would recommend continuing with your little black books for the next
> few months until the second printing of the T4 rules are released
> (destined "T4.1").  T4.1 should fix many of the problems with the
> original T4.  After that, I would recommend looking at any of the
> other books first, *before* you buy them.  If this isn't possible
> where you live this mailing list has many members that are willing to
> describe them in more detail for you.

I agree. Much will apparently be changing with the rules in the near
future, however background books like Milieu 0, Psionic Institutes, and the
cream of IG's current crop  Pocket Empires, are worth a look. 
 
> Good luck and welcome to the fold!  If you kept your greeting message
> from this list (and you did, didn't you :), you can use the
> information provided to search the list archives as well.
> 
I second Jim's welcome!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:36:40 +0000
From: "Garth Dighton" <gdighton@elite.net>
Subject: Ship Design Question

I just started fooling around with the QSDS (using the most recent 
version I found on the Web), and I wanted to see if I did my design 
correctly. There were parts of the process I wasn't sure I 
understood.
	For my design, I wanted to build a ship mentioned by Jim Vassilakos 
in his WORLDMAP.EXE program, the Vista Tender. Very little 
information was given about it. It was built on a Wedge frame 
of about 200 tons, carried two 24-ton short-range fighters in 
external grapples, had 1 triple laser turret on top of the ship, and 
could maneuver at 6 G's. It also had a crew of 4 (including the 
fighter pilots) and had fuel scoops and a purification plant.

There wasn't a 200-ton Wedge Shaped hull in the QSDS, so I turned to 
Brilliant Lances (the TNE edition) and built one from the Technical 
Booklet. The hull table in the QSDS seems to indicate that it 
includes life support, airlocks, artificial grav, etc. My 
computations are at the bottom.

First, the USD:
Vista Tender         Length: 42.5 m
Tons: 200 Wedge S    Volume: 2800 m^3     Cost: 267.3 MCr
Crew: 8              Passenger H/M: 0     Passenger Low: 0
Cargo: 0.34 tons     Controls: (TL12 Mil) TL: 12
8 Size Rating                     2 Jump Rating
0 Fire Control                    6 G-Rating/Maneuver Drive
L 3-Laser Batt.(+3)1/4-3-2-2    750 Power Plant
    (from TL11)                  48 Fuel Rating/Scoop 80/Refine 10
                                  0 Meson Screen
                                  0 Sandcaster
                                  0 Nuclear Damper
                                 2A 3P 0J Sensor Ratings
                                 70 Armor  12 Structure
Crew Breakdown: Engineering 1, Electronics 1, Astrogator 1, Pilot 1,
Gunner 1, Fighter Pilots 2, Command Crew 1
Carries 2 10-ton Light fighters (in the T4 rulebook) on External 
Grapples.

As you can see, I have several more crew than the original 
called for. I don't really know how to reduce it, as the only 
fractional crew was the Electronics, which was 0.8. There is another 
slight problem in that Brilliant Lances indicates that the Gravity 
Compensators from TL12 can only compensate 3G, while this ship 
maneuvers with 6. The cargo space is almost zero (about 5 cubic 
meters). The cost has *not* been reduced by 25% as the QSDS 
indicates. I worked the Structure rating from the SSDS 
(Brilliant Lances doesn't use it) only at the last minute. Finally, I 
changed the fighter to the 10-ton Light fighter because that's what I 
had stats for. 

Below is the worksheet calculations I used to arrive at these 
figures.

Worksheet
Volume        Power      Cost   Area     Item
[190.74]      14.561       3.5  [1350.0] Wedge S Hull (see Below)
   6.00                   25.2     28.0  Jump 2 Drive
  22.00      308.000      77.0     62.0  6 G Thrust Plate
   3.40        2.500      18.2      0.3  TL12 Military Controls
   0.30       12.600       7.4     13.0  TL12 Improved Sensors
              10.600       0.3    101.0  TL12 Improved Comm.
  32.90      210.600      68.4     63.4  TL 11 L3 Battery (2)
   6.00                    0.2    882.0  2 10-ton External Grapples
  24.00        5.000       0.1           TL12 10-ton Fuel Processor
  26.80     [750.000]     75.0           TL 11 750MW Fusion Plant
  48.00                                  48 tons fuel (1)
                           0.21   135.0  Fuel Scoops
   3.00                    0.012         6 Workstations
   4.00         .001       0.1           1 Large Stateroom
  14            .0035      0.28          7 Small Staterooms
- ------------------------------------------------------------
   0.34     [185.6]      276.3    [65.3] Totals

(1) The Tender needs 40 tons to make a Jump-2 by itself, or 44 Tons if
it is carrying its two 10-ton fighters. This leaves 4 tons left over,
enough to operate the Power Plant for 6 months.
(2) This battery is the Military Laser battery from TL11 that has 3 
lasers.

Here is the hull calculation I used to arrive at the figures for the 
hull above:

Hull Calculation (Based on Brilliant Lances Technical Booklet) 200 
ton Wedge, Streamlined, 6 G's, Superdense material (TL 12) 
Minimum Thickness: 5 cm Hull Plating
   HPV: 9*1.5*5 = 67.5 m^3
   HP Mass: 67.5*15 = 1012.5 tonnes
   HP Cost: 67.5*.7*.014 = .6615 MCr
   Length: 17*2.5 = 42.5 m
   Area: 9*1.5*100 = 1350 m^2
   Armor: 5*14 = 70
Internal Structure
   ISV: (1.5*9*6)/14 = 5.79 m^3
   IS Mass: 5.79*15 = 86.85 tonnes
   IS Cost: 5.79*.014 = .07266 MCr
2 Airlocks: .001 MW, 6 m^3, 0.4 tonnes, .010 MCr
Extended Life Support: .56 MW, 22.4 m^3, 22.4 tonnes, 1.4 MCr
Grav-Compensation: 14 MW, 28 m^3, 56 tonnes, 1.4 MCr

Totals
   Volume: (67.5+5.79+6+22.4+28)/14 = 9.26 tons displacement
   Price: .6615+.073+.01+1.4+1.4 = 3.5 MCr
   Power: 14.561 MW

My questions are: where are my mistakes, if any, and how could I 
design this ship more efficiently? (more cargo space, cheaper, etc.)

Thanks,
Garth Dighton
gdighton@elite.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:01:10 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

My question on all of this is this...

Since all of the old books are copyrighted by GDW, and GDW is defunct, to
whom do you write to get permission to reproduce them? You *can* do this,
you know.

Also, can this permission be issued en masse? For instance, if Marc has the
copyright, and he just told that we on the list could do photocopy this
stuff (according to his conditions), then can we?

Oh, and by the way ... please take the tit-for-tat off list. It's annoying
and childish.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:19:16 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Copyright apology...

Listen fellow Travellers...

Sorry if I took the thread beyond that which most of you readers feel 
appropriate.

While I don't recant anything I said, perhaps it was said too often.

I hope we can continue with the Traveller threads and get along with one 
another :)

Kevin

 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1860
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 22 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1861



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

WW II Ogre tank
Mechwarrior & Traveller
Re: Ship Design Question
RAAM Grinder Mark 1
CSC Sensor Conversion to Bruce's Sensors System
Re: Firearms in Vacuum
Re: Copyright apology...
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re:Highports & 100 dia. ( was Re:X-boats & couriers)
Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:40:02 -0400
From: Jeff & Michelle Norton <103010.212@compuserve.com>
Subject: WW II Ogre tank

        I think you may be refering to the Maus (Mouse in Deutsch) tank. It
was to be a super heavy (150+ tones) tank with a main 150mm gun and an 75mm
Panther cannon coaxial, plus an assortment of MG's and an AA mount on the
turret top (20mm or so). Armor was said to be inexcess of 120mm to the
front (at a 30% grade), and unknown on the sides, top, and rear. Speed was
to be near 25-35 KPH with a range of about 200KM. Would have been a sight
if one did actually get to fight...
        Trouble was that there were few bridges in europe that could hold
one of these monsters. Just to get it to the front to fight would have been
a chore. 

        The US Army captured a prototype and ran some tests in europe and
here at APG, Md. Results were poor. Limited cross-country ability, nose
heavy, limited ammo/fuel storage, limited speed, ect, ect, ect. The only
copy that could be tested was a pre design mock-up - no turret or armor
plateing. 
        Another bad idea taken to the extreme. Should have stuck with the
jets and the Type XXI u-boats.
        
        Ah, hindsight IS 20-20...

        Ad Historum Venticum,

        Jeff Norton

        Life IS a minefield... 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:46:43 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Mechwarrior & Traveller

On Thursday, September 18, 1997 07:52, J. wrote:
> I picked up a copy of mechwarrior last weekend (the roleplaying game not
> the  computer game). It has lots of similarities with traveller, has anybody
> tried  a cross over between Traveller and Mechwarrior?

   First off, a warning, the Battletech space combat system, Aerotech, is
truely a horrible thing.  It's beyond bad.

   The idea has some merit.  You're fearless players miss jump *way* off
course to a section of space where a minor human race never developed
comman sense, and anti-grav tech.  They have these giant walking armored
robots, 20-100 metric tons with really bloody awful targeting systems.

   If your guys are mercs with a G-Carrier with decent plasma gun turrent
mounted...you alter the balance of power on the planet you are on.  If the
best you got is a 4mm Gauss rifle...You use your air raft to wrap really
strong cable around their knees... :-)


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for 
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked" 
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 22:09:42 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Ship Design Question

On 09/21/97 at 05:36 PM,  "Garth Dighton" <gdighton@elite.net> said:

>There wasn't a 200-ton Wedge Shaped hull in the QSDS...

Go to Wildstar's web site and look for Bighull.txt. I pasted the 200-ton
Wedge Hulls from it below.

TL  Config            Tons  MaxG  Armor  Struc  Volume  Power  Cost 
Surface  Len 9   Wedge             200   6     20     12     178.4   74.0  
7.7   1183.0   43 9   Wedge Streamlined 200   6     20     12     178.4  
74.0   8.2   1048.0   43 9   Wedge Airframe    200   6     20     12    
175.6   73.8   9.5   1372.0   43 10  Wedge             200   3     10    
10     187.8   54.5   8.5   1183.0   43 10  Wedge Streamlined 200   3    
10     10     187.8   54.5   8.8   1048.0   43 10  Wedge Airframe    200  
3     10     10     186.7   54.4   9.3   1372.0   43 12  Wedge            
200   3     10     10     189.4   34.6   9.5   1183.0   43 12  Wedge
Streamlined 200   3     10     10     189.4   34.6   9.7   1048.0   43 12 
Wedge Airframe    200   3     10     10     188.8   34.6   10.2  1372.0  
43 14  Wedge             200   3     10     10     190.5   34.7   9.5  
1183.0   43 14  Wedge Streamlined 200   3     10     10     190.5   34.7  
9.8   1048.0   43 14  Wedge Airframe    200   3     10     10     190.2  
34.7   10.3  1372.0   43

One day soon, I hope, standard QSDS hulls designed with FFS2 will start to
show up on the list. 

BTW, I don't know how QSDS matches up with Marc's T4.1 hulls. 

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:40:23 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: RAAM Grinder Mark 1

Reddkneck Arms and Munitions "Grinder Mk1" 
A combined Weapon has two barrels each with its own clip. Capable of firing
both barrels at the same time, but watch out for the recoil under those
uses(will require a Str or 9+ to hold and fire, or Str of 11+ to fire and
move). The onboard computer allows for linking via aides to Personal HUD or
Military HUD's, and will with the business ring option engaged can lock out
unauthorized users from firing the weapon. Uses SOTA(State Of The Art)
binary liquid propellants to achieve the damage and ROF. Recoil under
single barrel use is quite manageable for most users.

                                         Empty   Price  Mag
Weapon Name   TL   Ammo         Length   Mass Kg Wpn    Cap
ShotGun       15   20mm Binary  0.54	3.8     2270   10
SMG           15   10mm Binary    -       -        -    40

Features:	
Smart Weapon Bonus   +4(Read HUD/sensor system)+4 to hit
Computer Rating       3
      Dedicated       Y
Bullpup               Y
Gyrostablization      Y		
Max Loaded Wt Kg      6.9

ShotGun Clip        Ammo    Price    Max
Ammo Type    Dmg    Mass    Ammo     Range
Slug          5     2.2      4       V.short
HP           4/5    2.2      7       V.short
AP           6/3    2.2      13      V.short
Exploding    3/8    2.2      13      V.short
DS-DU        7/4     1       31      V.short
HE           5/6    0.6      13      V.short
HEAT         11     0.6      22      V.short
Shot          5     1.6      9       V.short
Fletch        5      1       9       V.short
Self Forging  9     0.6      26      V.short
Frag          1     0.6      13      V.short

SMG Clip            Ammo     Price   Max
Ammo Type    Dmg    Mass     Ammo    Range
Slug          4     0.6      18      Medium
HP           3/4    0.6      26      Medium
AP           5/2    0.6      53      Medium
Exploding    2/7    0.6      53      Medium
DS-DU        7/4    0.1      123     Medium
HE           4/5    0.2      53      Medium
HEAT         4/2     0       88      Medium
Self Forging  5      0       106     Medium

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:15:45 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: CSC Sensor Conversion to Bruce's Sensors System

Below are some of my interpertations of converting CSC sensors to FFS2 values.

Range Names                Range   Distance  Space
CSC           FFS2         Factor  Meters    Sensitivity
Contact                    0       3         7
Very Short                 1       15        7.5
Short                      2       45        8
Medium                     3       150       8.5
Long                       4       450       9
Very Long                  5       1,500     9.5
Ext. Long     Distant      6       5km       10
- -------------------------------------------------------
Subregional                6.5     10km      10.5
Regional      Very Distant 7       50km      11
Subcontinent  Regional     8       500km     11.5
Continent     Continental  9       5Mm       12
Orbital       Planetary    10      50Mm      12.5
Far Orbit     Far Orbit    11      500Mm     13
- -------------------------------------------------------
Interplanetary             12      5Gm       13.5
Outsystem                  13      50Gm      14
Oort                       14      500Gm     14.5
Solar                      15      5Tm	    15
Kuiper Belt                16      50Tm      15.5
Oort Cloud                 17      500Tm     16

Optical CSC sensors:
Civilian would be only scanners
Military would be scanners and trackers

Lidar CSC Sensors:
The rules for LIDAR in FFS2 will apply but the sensitivity would be +.5

Radar CSC Sensors:
Civilian would be only scanners
Military would be scanners and trackers

Gravitic CSC Sensors:
Scanners only

Nuclear CSC Sensors:
Scanners only

Sonar CSC Sensors:
Civilian would be only scanners
Military would be scanners and trackers

Jammers CSC type or FFS2 type
- -0.5 Sensitivity and
- -0.5 Sensitivity for every TL Difference 

ie TL15 Jammer vs TL12 Scanner/Tracker net -2.0 Sensitivity

Let me know what you think.

Also table 194 and table 126 have the same or similar names for different
Range Factors. 
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 08:24:29 -0400
> From: "Mike Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
> 
> Which just had me wondering, are there any modifiers in use for using "iron
> sights" under differing gravities. A weapon "sited in" on a 1 gee world
> would be less than accurate on a .5 gee world, or a 1.5 gee world, correct?
> If so does any one have a chart or formula for the modifiers? They may be
> in the rules but I don't see them.

Firearm sights are typically set up to be valid at the weapon's "typical"
range, and hence put the aim point of the barrel slightly above the
target.  As such, yes, you would need to adjust this for different gees,
though a trained and experienced marksman would probably do this
instinctively, correcting "by feel" for the local gee.  Alternatively, a
weapon could have its sights modified for a specific gee.

By the way, it's this built-in compensation for bullet drop at typical
range which leads to the phenomenon recently discussed here of tracer fire
from a "level"-aimed gun rising as it leaves the barrel; in reality, the
barrel is aimed slightly upward when the sights report a horizontal aim
point.

> Another question, that I'm sure has been answered before, but since my
> system crashed I can't access any of my back information. Can some one send
> the planetary size-to-gravity formula? I'm looking for a general rule of
> thumb type, discounting planetary make-up (assumption that it is identical
> to Terra's).

Assuming the same net density as Terra, G = (UPP Size / 8).  I wish all
formulae were this simple... :)  And by the way, this isn't an
approximation (other than the rounding involved in setting Terra as
exactly size 8); since mass for a fixed-density sphere is proportional to
R^3, and surface gravity to M/R^2, gravity winds up being proportional to
R.  I love the way that works out.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:41:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Copyright apology...

Copyright is a touchy subject. For some people this subject is an interest;
for others it is our living.

You don't know how hard I had to argue with my own people that we should let
as many as possible post anything they want to from Traveller on web pages,
so long as they put on a copyright acknowledgement. I did the same thing for
2300 AD and Twiligh: 2000.

I think they agreed because I spoke up, but the usual course is what TSR
took.. don't let anyone do anything just so the trademarks and copyrights
never have a challenge.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 23:07:23 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

On 1997-09-20 14:58, Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net> wrote the 
following:

>> The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game why
>> would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use system of
>> weights and measures?
>
>It was written in the mid to late 70's.

So?

The metric system was in use in the scientific community in the 70's. 
Today the English system is *still* the official system in the US (and a 
number of other countries that I can count on one hand). Things are no 
different now then they were in the 70s.

Even in the 70s Metric was a scientific method of measurement, and 
Traveller was a Science Fiction game so it only makes sense that 
Traveller use metric.


- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 23:07:28 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

On 1997-09-20 22:34, Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote the 
following:

>> The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game why 
>> would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use system of 
>> weights and measures? 
>
>Ah yes, nice scientific and rational... Like having your unit of mass
>be determined by a hunk of platinum in France. :-)

Actually, I thought it was an iridium-platinum alloy, but I'll try not to 
be nitpicky. ;-)

I know your remark was in jest, but lets make a distinction between the 
irrationality of choice of base units and the rationality of derived 
units... since we can't count atoms directly we *have* to create an 
arbitrary unit of mass.

Heck, all base units are arbitrary, be they based on such-and-such a 
number of wavelengths of this-or-that, or defining the second as being 
1/blah blah-th the time it takes light to travel that far.

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 23:07:16 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re:Highports & 100 dia. ( was Re:X-boats & couriers)

On 1997-09-20 17:16, Woden2014@aol.com <Woden2014@aol.com> wrote the 
following:

>The 100 dia. limit is not one point in space, but a sphere.(as has been
>pointed out in another thread) The odds of a ship coming out of Jump near
>this *Farport* are slim, assuming there are multiple trade routes to the
>system.  Even with only one route you need to take into account the other
>planets in the system which could impose their own 100dia. limits upon the
>Farport when their orbits brought them into range of it.  I do like the idea
>of a Farport, but it is useful in limited situations and then only if the
>planetary orbits of the system allow it.

In many cases, there will be high traffic between only a few neigbouring 
systems. Most incoming ships will be coming from these incoming vectors. 
So one or two highports placed in an orbit synchronous with these 
corridors would suffice.

Realize that if a ship was jumping from system A to System B, about 50% 
of the entire surface of this 100 dia. limit of Homeworld B is "visible" 
from system A. The chances of other planets' limits "blocking" the 
corridor are slim, to say the least. Other planets would only possibly 
transit Homeworld B's limit along a very thin area close to the orbital 
plane of system B. In other terms, Planets in system B can only block 
Homeworld B if the orbital plane is almost exactly parallel with the 
vector between Star A and Star B. And even if they could block, it could 
only happen rarely, during certain times of the year, or if the orbital 
period of the blocking planet was quite long, maybe during certain years 
in a century...


  *---------o-------------.---  /great distance/        * Star A
Star B   Homeworld B   Planet

                                                 

Space is big. In the majority of cases, it's going to be easy to plot a 
jump vector from one world to another without worrying about what planets 
get in the way. And three highports at 100 dia. for major systems should 
ensure that one will always be "clear" when viewed from a nearby system.

- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:31:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Woden2014@aol.com
Subject: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)

>Hans Rancke wrote:

>>Pirates are one of the elements of the Traveller Universe that
unfortunately
>>dosen't make a whole lot of sense. It's a pity, because they are a lovely
>>evocative motif, but given the way space ships work they are not really
>>practical except in very specialized circumstances.

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

>The trick is setting up those circumstances well...

>>1) pirate ships are so expensive that a pirate can sell it and retire in
>>   comfort without having to risk his life going a-pirating. Also, repair
>>   bills for damage sustained while attempting the capture can easily
>>   cost more than the cargo you're trying to capture.

Well, a pirate ship would more than likely be stolen.  That's a hard thing to
resell, and at a lower profit margin than stealing other peoples cargoes.  Or
they could be barely spaceworthy, cobbled together wrecks with BIG guns.  As
far as damage from capturing other ships, if I were a captain of an unarmed
or lightly armed trader, and three or so pirates showed up and told me to
heave to, I'd heave to because I'd much rather lose my cargo than my life

>IMNSHO, one of the worst Traveller designs was the corasir.. IMTU, pirates
>operate out of small scouts and traders, and depend on stealth and guile.

I agree.  Give me a handful of small well armed ships, rather than a big Imp.
Navy magnet
anytime.

>>2) Hiding from patrol ships at the 100 diameter limit is impossible. 
>>   Hiding on a planet means a race to overhaul the prey before it
>>   reaches the jump limit. Hiding in a Gas Giant means your chance of
>>   detecting a refuelling ship is very small (A Gas Giant is big; the
>>   chance that a ship will decide to refuel close to where you are
>>   lurking is not very big).

You mean a trader on a shoe string budget passing up on free fuel?  Not going
to happen.

>>3) A single high-population world can produce enough patrol ships to
>>   place one at the jump limit of every world in a sector. Certainly
>>   piracy in any system with a reasonable population and TL is
>>   impossible, but piracy in remote systems are almost as difficult.

>Which is why, historically, pirates operated far away from the big powers,
>and tried to gain legitmacy by becoming privateers.  You're not going to
>find pirates around Rhylanor, they'll be sneaking around the smaller
>systems, waiting for a target of oppotunity.

>Most pirates are also legitimate merchants, who have decided to add a
>source of income that is frowned upon.

>>James Lindsay replies:

>>>Piracy often takes place in and around gas giants, but can take place
>>>elsewhere.  Just because something takes place within the 100 diameter
>>>limit does not necessarily mean that the local authorities can get
>>>there in time to prevent it.

>>If the local authorities have a few patrol ships, they can place one near
>>the jump limit and create a safe arrival and departure zone.

>Except that the 100-diameter limit for Earth is a sphere with a surface are
>of roughly 5.2x10^12 km.... quite an area to patrol effectively!

The local authorities are just that, local.  They have only limited funds to
do there jobs.  Some systems fall through the cracks.  

>>And Kenneth Bearden replies:

>>>Many times, pirates will attack. The victim ship will radio in.  Minutes
>>>later the message is received at the star port (communication travels at
>>>light speed, which can still take it some time at those distances).  A
>>>ship is dispatched (if there is any there to dispatch--many times the
>>>answer to this is no.  The pirates usually know where the picking is
>>>good).  By the time the rescue ship gets to the downed ship, the pirates
>>>are gone out with there loot.

>>If the pickings are good then all the more reason to station a ship there.
>>Pirates only thrive when the number of places they can lie in wait for
>>prey vastly outnumbers the number of navy ships out looking for them.
>>That would not be the case around most planets with any sort of population.

>Piracy will be a transitory problem.. lasting a few months at most until
>the locals/Imperium shift enough assets to deal with the situation.  The
>smart pirate captain makes a hit and moves on, the dumb ones.. well. let's
>just say they roll a "2" on the CT Survival roll....

Pirates are great plot motivators, they make fabulous reacuring villains, and
all around great suprise for the unsuspecting player.  Or, if your players
are bloodthirsty enough, you could run a campaign as pirates, then they'll
get a real respect for them as they flee from twenty Navy ships in their
modified stollen scout ship.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:26:59 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:55:25 +0000, "Garth Dighton" <gdighton@elite.net>
>The term "jump point" is used often, both in the books and on the
>TML. If I read the books correctly, though, there is no one "point"
>in space that you have to be to jump, you can be anywhere outside of
>the 100 diameter limit, which is a sphere. So what does jump point
>refer to?

The point you have chosen on the sphere.

>Given the above, how does piracy operate? The sensors thread seems to
>indicate that most planets would have sensor capability at least to
>the hundred-diameter limit, and at that point a ship leaving the
>system would jump, leaving the pirates unable to attack the ship in
>privacy. Do they attack the ship in full view of the planet and hope
>to finish the job before help arrives?? Do they only attack ships on
>their way to refuel at the gas giant, outside of the planet's sensor
>range??

Well, I haven't followed the sensor range (though my experience is
that people overestimate, IMO at least, how well sensors would
work.).  The main point is that piracy will not occur around a
place like Regina.  It will occur in backwater systems and out
lying areas of modest systems where a ship can't be mobalized in
time to respond the distress call.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:23:35 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

Kenneth Bearden writes: 

SWMego@aol.com wrote:

>>  To make a long story short I re-read them, and searched around on 
>>the web a bit, now I came across this list!!!

   Fresh meat!!!  :-)

>Welcome, Traveller!

   Ditto.  And welcome to the Traveller Mailing List.  Some people
experience some culture shock when they arrive here.  Be aware of the
following:

1) If you try to read and respond to every single post, you will spend
your life reading and responding to every post.  Look for subjects that
interest you (or bring up a new one) and then send a post if you have
something to add.  All the other netiquette details have been covered in
a FAQ file which I'm sure somebody will get around to pointing out to
you.

2) If you think you know everything there is to know about Traveller,
you will of course be proven incorrect (inevitably somebody knows more
in one or more subject areas, or thinks they do).  On the other hand, if
you are looking for answers to rules and background questions (or
practically anything else), this is probably the best place to get an
answer regardless of which version of Traveller you settle on playing.

3) People here at times get very passionate about Traveller, in much the
same way that people get passionate about the local hometown sports
team.  Keep that in mind when you see somebody questioning someone
else's gonad size or apparent lack thereof because of a differing
opinion about the significance of Vargr charisma, or some other such
aspect of the game.  We try to keep things relatively civil around here,
and pretty much are successful, at least in comparsion to newsgroups and
other areas of continuing Internet combat.  Should you find yourself the
subject of a flame mail, don't take anyone's opinions so seriously that
you allow it to upset you.  The idea here, as with the game, is for it
to be a pleasent experience.

   I hope that helps.

>> What are the new t4 and tne things you
>> are talking about?
>
>First,there was Traveller in the late 70's and early 80's.  We refer to
>it as Classic Traveller now, or CT--like classic coke or classic Trek.
>
>This era covered the years 1100-1115 or so in Imperial history.

   By way of further explanation, Traveller ultimately culminated
storyline-wise with the end of the Fifth Frontier War and its aftermath
(along with some developments in the Solomani Rim that have implications
later on).  There were 8 books, 12 supplements, and numerous adventures
and special supplements produced for it between 1977 and 1986.

   It was in 1986 that Marc Miller and GDW decided that the "classic"
Traveller rules needed a tune up.  The game was approaching 10 years old
and starting to show its age.  Initially the changes contemplated were
relatively minor.  However, as the discussions continued, it was decided
that a major overhaul would take place.  The people behind Digest Group
Publications (DGP), which had developed a task resolution system to fit
the old rules (this appeared in their magazine Traveller Digest) and had
developed Book 8: Robots was tasked with making this happen under the
GDW name.

>Then, all hell broke loose in 1116 when the Emperor Strephon was
>assassinated!  The Imperium broke into several factions, and a second
>Civil War started.

   The result was MegaTraveller, which was published starting in 1987. 
MegaTraveller covered the era of the Rebellion, which lasted from 1116
to 1130 on the Imperial calendar.  A large number of sourcebooks were
produced for MegaTraveller by GDW and DGP (under license), as well as
adventures and other supplementary material.   Much of the development
of MegaTraveller from 1987 to 1991 was handled by DGP's staff, which is
why you hear people on this list refer to the DGP sourcebooks so much. 
The DGP sourcebooks were of excellent quality and covered areas of
Traveller in a depth never before seen.  They are still sought after
even today.

   For all the positives of the DGP's sourcebooks, unfortunately the
first printing of the basic MegaTraveller books (Referee's Manual,
Player's Manual, Imperial Encyclopedia) proved to be an errata filled
nightmare.  Just when it seemed that all the errors had been found, new
ones were discovered.  Eventually the errata issues were resolved, but
not before much damage had been done to Traveller's reputation. 

>The war raged on, with no resolution in site.  The elements basically
>fought themselves to death.  By 1120-1130, the Imperium reached an era
>called Hard Times.  This was a subset of MegaTraveller, and it used the
>MT rules. 

   By 1991, GDW hired on Dave Nilsen to help rebuild GDW's Traveller
product line.  Some good GDW sourcebooks (i.e. Hard Times, Arrival
Vengence) came out of the final days of MegaTraveller (1991-1993). 
Little noticed by anyone at the time was a submission by a certain H.
Hale which gave extremely detailed design rules for drones in
MegaTraveller.  This earned him a seat at the table in 1992 when GDW
conducted its first and only official Writer's Conference, at which was
announced...

>  During the war, a doomsday weapon was
>released.  It was a computer virus that developed true artificial
>intelligence.  It got into everything and destroyed everything in its
>path.

   The computer virus was more than just a computer virus.  As discussed
above, an adventure was developed for classic Traveller called "Signal
GK".  The plot of the adventure revolved around the discovery of a
silicon based lifeform native to the Solomani Rim.  In Survival Margin
(the first TNE product, released before the basic TNE manual), we
discover that Imperial scientists took the lifeform found on Cymbeline
and developed it as a living transponder for ships (and it was very good
at what it did).  During the Rebellion, one of the factions saw the
potential of the lifeform as a weapon of mass destruction.  Efforts at
genetically manipulating it started immediately.  These succeeded in
turning the lifeforms into an ultimate high tech, AI killing machine
(Virus, so-named for its ability to destroy data and executable files
and transmit itself electonically), but as a weapon it had one flaw--it
couldn't tell friend from enemy.

>Whole planets,dependent on protection from hostile atmospheres (or no
>atmosphere) were destroyed when the Virus infected them.  Billions died.

>This is the era of Traveller:  The New Era, or TNE as we call it.

   The accidental release of Virus during a raid on the research lab
where it was developed finished off a great deal of whatever
civilization was left after the Rebellion (including some alien
civilizations that had only a minor role).  The Imperium was effectively
reduced to an area of a few sectors centered on the Spinward Marches,
called the Regency.  Among the other survivors were the Aslan colonies
on the spinward side of the Great Rift, the Zhodani, Terra (though it
suffered terribly), and the Hivers.  The primary storylines in the New
Era centered on the Regency and the states surrounding it, and a group
of human-dominated worlds called the Reformation Coalition, which
received help from the Hivers in their attempt to revive civilization in
their part of space.  Secondary storylines centered on so-called "pocket
empires" groups of usually a half dozen or less inhabited worlds that
were also reviving civilization or just hanging for survival.

>This was the third edition of Traveller.  GDW totally revamped the
>rules, which proved to be very unpopular with many old time Traveller
>fans.  The rules now were converted to GDW's house system, the system it
>used for Twilight 2000 and other games.  Gone were the standard D6's. 
>In were the D10's and D20's.

   TNE (first appeared in 1993, developed by Dave Nilsen, Frank
Chadwick, and Loren Wiseman, Marc Miller having left GDW for all
practical purposes in 1987) proved to have a very good system of game
mechanics.  Task resolution is done with a D20, hit locations are
determined with a D10, and damage points are resolved using D6 (some
people settled on using D10s to resolve hits from small arms for more
"realistic" damage effects).  GDW published all the sourcebooks (and
there were many) that were created for TNE, though some excellent TNE
material also appeared in Traveller Chronicle magazine.  TNE also saw
the appearance of "Fire, Fusion and Steel" a sourcebook that not only
allowed you to build most things appearing the Traveller universe, but
items of alternative technology as well (including thruster plates which
were dropped from TNE in favor of drives that use reaction mass).

  While the new mechanics were adopted by many older players (as well as
people new to Traveller), the new storyline proved to be much less
popular.  Quite simply, the impression that many people had was that the
Imperium was dead, and they didn't like the way the story ended.  Sales
of TNE products however were solid, that is until the RPG market came
unravelled--more on that later.

>The TNE rules are very detailed, but the price paid was that it would
>take you an hour to get through a simple one on one fight.

   Perhaps the first time through, with each time after that getting
progressively faster.  The best way to handle combat was to take a
gaming session to work through fire and unarmed combat rules before
actually getting into a game, that way players know what their weapons
(and fists) can do in game terms.

>The TNE era begins in the year 1220--a hundred years after the origianal
>CT Imperium was set.

   Actually it begins in 1201, approximately 70 years after Virus was
released.  TNE advanced the storyline up to 1202 before GDW went out of
business.  Material that regularly appears in Traveller Chronicle
magazine continues the timeline forward in the Solomani Rim, and there
have been discussions of a TNE wrap-up book, TNE storyline sourcebooks
for Marc Miller's Traveller, and even one rumor a someone tryng to get a
license to produce new TNE sourcebooks based on the TNE rules.  Nothing
definate.

>Then, disaster struck for our favorite RPG.  GDW closed it's doors and
>went out of business.

   The demise of GDW is the result of 8 years of assorted troubles,
starting with the problems with MegaTraveller, continuing with some
questionable game development decisions ("Dangerous Journeys", a fantasy
RPG developed by Gary Gygax, had mediocre sales and ultimately landed
GDW in court as a result of a lawsuit by TSR--it seemed that Mr. Gygax
had begun development work on DJ while he was at TSR, and according to
his departure agreement with that company, anything he developed while
there became TSR's property), and some just plain bad luck.  Still, it
appeared in early 1995 that GDW would be able to keep afloat, when WHAM!
Wizards of the Coast (up until now a small, slowly failing RPG company)
released "Magic: The Gathering" the first of what now seems like an
endless stream of collectable card games from various companies. 
Unwilling to join the CCG parade, GDW soon found that game stores would
rather stock WotC product than RPGs or even minatures rules (and with
good reason, game stores were making a *killing* on CCGs).  Distributors
reduced the amount of GDW product they carried, and some just stopped
altogether (TSR was also hit hard about this time--which is why they are
now owned by WotC).  

   By mid to late 1995, the handwriting was on the wall--too much damage
absorbed too fast.  Staff was cut, downsizing began.  Rumors started
that GDW was in trouble.  GDW issued denials.  One or two individuals
did some checking around and discovered that indeed GDW *was* in
trouble.  Dave Nilsen left the company.  Frank Chadwick tried to
continue, but to no avail.  The lights started to dim...

>Marc's company is Far Future Enterprises.  The company created to
>publish Traveller stuff is Imperium Games, or IG.

   Imperium Games is in fact the name which Sweetpea Entertainment
operates under when it does business as an RPG producer (the executive
officers of both companies are identical).

>Last August, the fourth edition of Traveller came out, called Marc
>Miller's Traveller.  On this list, we refer to it as T4.

   Or alternately MMT (short for Marc Miller's Traveller).  Use of MMT
began after some people became dissatisfied with the degree to which
Marc Miller's Traveller adheres to the generally accepted storyline for
the GDW version of the game (the rationale being that MMT was not a true
4th edition of the Traveller rules, but was in fact a completely new
game which incorporates some of the original story elements).

>The idea here is to go back to Traveller's roots.  The game is based on
>CT, with a face lift similar to the one done by MT.  

   In some ways MMT is what may have happened had Marc Miller stuck
around for the original CT revision that turned into MegaTraveller back
in 1987.  As with TNE however, some elements of it have been
controversial with long time players.  Some questioned the rationale of
yet another task resolution system (which itself has been controversial
because of its use of "half D6s", variable amount of dice used, and
other factors), while others didn't like the storyline changes that have
been made to the background history (most minor, but some of
significance).  Still others don't like the "Milieu Zero" (the founding
date of the Third Imperium) setting, which even Marc Miller has
described as (and I am paraphrasing here) "the TNE setting without
Virus".  MMT does bring back thruster plates as "canon" (part of the
storyline), but relies on FF&S for some of its design mechanics, and
incorporates new technology, Fusion Plus, as part of the background.

>A task system is
>used, but many of the original CT game rules are keep intact.  The D6's
>make their return.

   As noted above, it is not classic Traveller.

>T4 is really just updated CT, and many of your old CT items were work
>with little or no conversion to the new game.

   While certain items do translate well, your characters (depending
upon whether they were generated using the Book 1-3 rules or using 4-7)
will need to be regenerated.

>Marc's plan is to release products for many different Traveller eras--or
>milieus.  Right now, there are several T4 products out (IG has been very
>ambitious--there are over 15 products out since last August!).  All of
>them are directed towards a specific part of Traveller history--Milieu
>0, or M0.

   Some would say that IG's production schedule is part of why there
have been so many formatting and errata problems with MMT (particularly
the early products published in 1996).  More on this later.

>The M0 era will be from the year 0-200.  Then, as I understand it now, a
>new milieu will be released--M200.  We'll learn about the Aslan Border
>wars and such.

   The basic MMT manual is currently undergoing a complete (and badly
needed) revision, the results of which, called by some "T4.1" are being
personally written by Marc Miller.  Setting will be the Imperial Year
100 (IIRC: if I recall correctly).  Other MMT sourcebooks also have
problems, most minor, some serious (if there isn't an FAQ file on them,
there should be).  People here will tell you which to buy and which to
avoid.

>Somewhere down the road, there is supposed to be several milieu for
>Traveller players to choose from and play in.  Do you want to play
>during the first Civil War?  How about during the Solomani Rim war? 
>During the Psionic Suppressions?

   True, a great deal has been promised by IG.

   My advice is to take a "wait and see" attitude with regard to
purchasing MMT.  The "4.1" revision will almost certainly be worth the
wait (due out in November), since you apparently have no desire to track
down the GDW produced material (otherwise, I would suggest picking up
TNE for the game mechanics and choosing a setting to use based on what
your group wants--but I'm somewhat biased).  There are also plans by
Steve Jackson Games to produce a series of GURPS sourcebooks dealing
with the Imperial setting, c.1116 using an alternative timeline (no
Rebellion).  Unfortunately that won't be out until January at the
earliest.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1861
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 22 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1862



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Questions about Traveller
Milieu 0 Campaign Physical Condition ?
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
TL10 Augmented Battle Dress AFTER Fusion+ (plus some possible errata in T4:  CSC)  A bit long...
Re: races info wanted
Re: Aslan
Speed of TNE combat
Re: Copyright apology...
Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)
Re: Live Campaigns?
Re: Piper (was: Live Campaigns)
Re: Highports & 100 dia. ( was Re:X-boats & couriers)
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Supplements
Metrics, was Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Pirates
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
re: copyright apology
[none]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:42:20 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:07:41 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>Ah yes, nice scientific and rational... Like having your unit of mass
>>be determined by a hunk of platinum in France. :-)

>Not fair, Leonard. The meter was originally defined as 1/10,000,000th of the
>distance from the equator to a pole. For a time the stick in Paris defined
>the meter, but nowadays it is defined in terms of some wavelength or other,
>and you can't get much more scietific than that, can you ;-).

Of course you can define a yard (or a furlong) the same way.....

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:51:43 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:38:30 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Pirates are one of the elements of the Traveller Universe that unfortunately
>dosen't make a whole lot of sense.

This may be.  I do think there are some faults with your analysis, but
I don't claim that this means there are no problems with piracy, I
haven't thought that through enough to be willing to say that...

>2) Hiding from patrol ships at the 100 diameter limit is impossible.
>   Hiding on a planet means a race to overhaul the prey before it
>   reaches the jump limit. Hiding in a Gas Giant means your chance of
>   detecting a refuelling ship is very small (A Gas Giant is big; the
>   chance that a ship will decide to refuel close to where you are
>   lurking is not very big).

You don't "hide" that way.  You pose as a normal unassuming ship
and then hit quickly and jump out.

>3) A single high-population world can produce enough patrol ships to
>   place one at the jump limit of every world in a sector. Certainly
>   piracy in any system with a reasonable population and TL is
>   impossible, but piracy in remote systems are almost as difficult.

Well, you actually need enough ships to cover the entire sphere of
the 100 diam limit.  Then you need to do that at every planet that
has traffic (population, mining, refueling, etc.).  I would say
that Regina can do this easily.  A small pop world might, for
example, only have one or two ships.  (Especially if you want
to take ships and group them into fleets for military purposes).

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:46:27 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Milieu 0 Campaign Physical Condition ?

Do the copies of the Milieu 0 Campaign you have seen all have some cover
dammage ?

Every copy that came in to the game shop I order games for had slight
dammage to its corners.  The (major) distributor we got them from said
that _every_ copy they received had similar dammage.  They apparently
considered refusing the entire shipment.  They said they contacted
Imperium Games and were told that "this was the best they could do". 
The dammage was not sufficient to stop me from buying the supplement,
but is sufficient to stop some people.  Every copy had a bruised lower
right hand corner with about 3/4" crinkled.  The other 3 corners were
not as bad but all had the black binding already somewhat worn with the
white showing through.

These books had only travelled from the printer, to Imperium, to the
distributor and they were already dammaged.  This is a bad sign for
their long term wear value.

In fairness to Imperium Games I should note that it is not uncommon to
receive hardcover games from other companies with slight dammage but I
have never seen hardcovers that looked like this unless someone dropped
the box they were shipped in.  I do not know how many hundred copies my
distributor received but it seems unlikely someone droped them all.

It is my very fervant hope that this problem does _not_ recur with the
T4.1 hardcovers.

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:18:24 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:

> See.  I told you that you wouldn't apologize.

Well, double-bo-bo on me.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:25:29 GMT
From: macrae@triax.com
Subject: TL10 Augmented Battle Dress AFTER Fusion+ (plus some possible errata in T4:  CSC)  A bit long...

Once people reverse-engineer Fusion+, a lot of things suddenly become
possible.  I've looked at the canon version of TL10 ABD, and like the
progression to battle-pods at the later TL's (though I still think
that anthropomorphic-ABD will have tactical use no matter what TL you
are at).  However, I was at work and wanted to see what I could do
with "growing my own" ABD in Milieu 0 (since the 3I-issue stuff is
verbotin).  The following design is what I ended up with, and I'll
mention some possible errata that I encountered in Central Supply
Catalog as I come to it.  Please note that the example from the book
that I refer to is on page 19 of the CSC.

Homegrown TL10 Augmented Battle Dress:

Components:		Volume:		Mass:		Area:
Cost:    =20
Available space =3D          +0.300m3	---		+2.00m2	---
Occupant                       ~0.100		~0.100t		---


These are, of course, approximate sizes...(I'm a bit smaller :)

Power Plant:		0.020		0.040		0.060
0.2KCr
     --TL10 Fusion+
     --0.060Mw
     --Fuel (200h)		0.0060		0.006		---
0.042
Propulsion System:	0.1232		0.1232		0.660
1.980
     --TL10 Legs
     --0.044Mw (Str 16)
     --Spd x 0.3

***Possible Errata:  The surface area in the example is broken, or the
rules on page 64 are incorrect.

Secondary Propulsion:	0.02464		0.02464		0.132
0.396
     --TL10 Arms/Hands
     --0.044Mw (Str 16)

***Possible Errata:  It appears from both the text of the rules, and
the example of TL12 ABD given, that the arms/hands take up only 0.2 of
the same stat for the legs, except for taking up only 10% as much
surface area, and requiring NO additional power.  Is this correct?  I
went by the rules on page 66.

Armor:			0.01732		0.12124		---
6.062
     --TL7 Comp Lam
     --rating on Head/Chest =3D 7 (1.0cm)
     --rating on Arms/Legs =3D 6 (0.73cm)
     --rating on Hands =3D 4 (0.21cm)

I chose TL7 Composite Laminate for the armor as it was easier to
calculate/work (all stats are "7"--it was 0300, after all :), and
because I wanted the surface to be non-metallic.  I got my numbers for
surface area to cover from the text on page 18 (left-hand column under
Armor Notes).

Options:
     --Basic Life Support	0.00043		0.00043		---
0.0258

This was a major pain to calculate, but I think that I derived the
values correctly.  I'm assuming that even though this is only BASIC
life support that there is still some internal provision for nature's
call(s).

     --TL10 Fire Control	---		---		---
50.0
          --DM +2

Since there are no integral weapons, I'm assuming that this works for
linked weapons, and supplements a PAWS-10.

     --Commo:		0.0005		0.001		0.100
5.05
          --TL10 mil-spec
          --0.01Mw (sub-continental)
          --5 Channels
          --Direction Finder included
     --Sensors:		0.01		0.02		0.001
60.0
          --TL10 Active Multi-Spectrum
          --Radar/Sonar only
          --0.0001Mw (sub-regional)
          --mil-spec

I assumed that, since this is integral to the armor, full EMS sensing
wouldn't be included--thus, the Radar/Sonar only limitation.

I think that the example of ABD is broken, as the cost of its sensors
doesn't match what the tables say theu should be...comments?

     --Sensors:		0.01		0.02		0.0001
60.0
          --TL10 Passive Optical
          --0.0001 (sub-regional)
          --mil-spec

Please note that the example shows that the Passive Optical system
antenna takes up no area, though the rules on page 70 state that they
should take up 0.1 of the space as the Active sensors would at the
same range/power.  What's up?

     --TL9 Inertial Nav	0.0005		0.0005		---
0.2

There is no volume listed in the rules for this device on page 25 (or
33) but the example says that it is this big...

     --Sat Nav		0.0025		0.001		---
2.0

Though there are no rules for including this, I simply had it take up
5 x the space at the same mass (though it should probably be the same
size as well).  Roadgrid(tm) is the closest that the rules get to
mentioning this item.

     --Smart Coating	---		---		---
0.32
          --Designer camouflage (:-)

Totals:			 0.31509m3	 0.45801t	 0.9531m2
186.2758KCr

Additional stats:

Routine maintenance period:  600h (monthly)

Performance:  Strength 16, top running speed 87m/turn (52kph), maximum
range 10440km, which should be enough to get any reasonable job done
(i.e.:  if this isn't enough, then you chose the wrong tool for the
job).

While a bit bulkier than the issue-item, I think that a prior-service
Marine would welcome a suit of this should he/she come in harm's way.

Comments?  Later...Steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:35:07 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: races info wanted

Michael Koehne wrote:

>         I need addtional information about :
> 
>         Race                                    Source I need
>         
>         Vlazhumecta                             TTC 5

There is a but load of information on this race on the net.  In fact,
the guy who wrote the TTC 5 article maintains a site.  You'll get what
was in the article and much more.

I think it was the HIWIG site--information on the Yxxxxxxx Sector.  I
forgot how to spell that, Yilker-something.  

You can link there from the Imperium Games link page.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:00:29 -0700
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Aslan

   I think it may be overstating things to say that Aslan culture is 
male dominated, if one is thinking in terms of male-dominated 
societies in our (Terran) past; instead, the spheres of domination 
are sharply defined.  Remember that female society controls the 
economics of the Hierate (as well as always being in advisory 
positions to male leaders).


- --
Edward Swatschek  *  edjs@bitslayer.net
                     edjs@mindlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:19:26 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Speed of TNE combat

>>The TNE rules are very detailed, but the price paid was that it would
>>take you an hour to get through a simple one on one fight.

>   Perhaps the first time through, with each time after that getting
> progressively faster.  The best way to handle combat was to take a
> gaming session to work through fire and unarmed combat rules before
> actually getting into a game, that way players know what their weapons
> (and fists) can do in game terms.

I agree, after reading the rules through about 4 or 5 times, I can
remember the combat procedure better than I could for MT - which appears
to be faster but involves more strenous calculations (Didn't you know
CompSci students can't do basic math anymore ;)).


David Moodie
_______________________________________________________
THE MANY FACES OF WASHU GALLERY       
http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/gilliams/52  
- -------------------------------------------------------
Washu devotee and worshipper of Traveller : The New Era 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:14:51 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Copyright apology...

I remember when I was in Junior High, I made a Gamma World character
sheet and put the copywrite notices at the top, even though there was
really nothing "Gamma World" specific to the sheet because they didn't
have words copywritten like "Mental Mutations".  I was just trying to be
loyal to the game designers at the time.

My attitude towards these games that I enjoy so much hasn't changed
either.  In my opinion, Traveller is the ultimate "space game".  I have
Space Farer, Space Opera, Star Frontiers, Star Trek and many others; but
none of them (in my opinion), were put together as well as Classic
Traveller, in fact I always considered them the "B movie" type
copy-cats.  For instance, when "Star Wars" came out, soon there was a
proliferation of low-budget, bad-plot copies.  There always seems to be
such whenever something is a big hit.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:44:16 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

Very well done history there, replete with details; you did miss one
thing though - CT had 13 supplements, not 12.  #13 is called "Veterans".

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:41:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

In mail you write:

>>I'm waiting for the sequel to "Great King's War" (which is a sequel to
>>"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen").
>
> I didn't know there was a sequel to Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen.  Is it still in
> print?  Any idea where I can order a copy?

It's not by Piper. I'd ask your local bookstore to see if it is still
listed in Books in Print, and then try to order it if it isn't. If not,
try Powell Books' web site.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:49:07 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Piper (was: Live Campaigns)

In mail you write:

> At 09:57 PM 9/19/97 PST, Leonard wrote:
>
>>I'm waiting for the sequel to "Great King's War" (which is a sequel to
>>"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen").
>>
>>-- 
>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>
> There are two  stories (sequals of a sort) to "Great King's War" already
> out. They are:
>  
> "Kalvan Kingmaker", by Rolan Green & John F. Carr (published in
> _Alternatives_, ed. Robert Adams, Baen 1989).
>
> "Siege at Tarr-Hostigos", by Roland Green & John F. Carr (published in
> _There Will Be War VIII: Armageddon_, ed. Jerry Pournelle, Tor 1989).  

True enough. But they are just sections of the novel. They did the same
sort of thing with some of the sections in "Great King's War".

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:06:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Highports & 100 dia. ( was Re:X-boats & couriers)

In mail you write:

> The 100 dia. limit is not one point in space, but a sphere.(as has been
> pointed out in another thread) The odds of a ship coming out of Jump near
> this *Farport* are slim, assuming there are multiple trade routes to the
> system.  Even with only one route you need to take into account the other
> planets in the system which could impose their own 100dia. limits upon the
> Farport when their orbits brought them into range of it.  I do like the idea
> of a Farport, but it is useful in limited situations and then only if the
> planetary orbits of the system allow it.

Space is *big*. 100 dia on a size 10 planet is what, 16 million km?
That's about a 10th of an AU. And most planets are a *lot* farther
apart than that. The odds of planets having their 100 dia limits come
close enough to worry about are pretty extreme.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:01:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

In mail you write:

>> Then you do the "usual" painstaking correctness proofs for any software
>
>         I still dont know if there would ever be "mathematical correct"
>         software. Perhaps "God" invented the universe plan just because
>         she saw that the evolutionary aproach is the only solution ;-)

Provably correct software already exists. It's mostly restricted to
things like controlling nuclear plants and other "cost is no object, it
must be *safe*" type applications. 

There's generally no *point* in trying to prove the correctness of
software if you don't have a proven correct *processor* to run it on. A
few such exist, but they aren't used in mass market PCs. 

And such things *will* evolve. Once you've proven a program to be
correct, proving the correctness of additions or modifications is going
to be simpler than starting from scratch. But it does help if the mods
or add-ons are built using certain rules.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:45:39 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Supplements

....and further, the very best thing IG could do is to grant some licences
to people with itchy typing fingers to publish some 'unofficial' material
like scenarios and so on. It worked for CT, why not now? There's a whole
load of people dying to buy some scenarios, and there just aren't enough!

I know there are people waiting to get licences. That's not a guess or gut
feeling, it's fact.

You reading this, Marc? 

Martin. (Rabid, once again.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:44:08 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Metrics, was Re: Gurps Traveller

Glenn Hoppe Wrote;
>On 1997-09-20 14:58, Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net> wrote the
>following:
>
>>> The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game why
>>> would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use system of
>>> weights and measures?
>>
>>It was written in the mid to late 70's.
>The metric system was in use in the scientific community in the 70's.
>Today the English system is *still* the official system in the US (and a
>number of other countries that I can count on one hand). Things are no
>different now then they were in the 70s.
>
>Even in the 70s Metric was a scientific method of measurement, and
>Traveller was a Science Fiction game so it only makes sense that
>Traveller use metric.

Although the U.S. Congress may still be pretty archaic, many specific
applications have converted to metric, especially in the scientific
community, but also elsewhere.

We do still have our highway signage, most supermarket measures, and
cooking instructions in metric, and those are some of the primary
"everyday" measures.  In fact, the biggest everyday metric measure I can
think of is that we buy our soda (pop, carbonated beverage) in 2-liter
bottles.

Other countries are still somewhat like this too though.  When I went to
"metric" Great Britain I bought my beer in "pints" and when trying to
follow a recipe from an English cookbook had a hard time converting the
"pounds of flour" to cups we use here.

To bring this kicking and screaming back into Traveller;  Would the office
of Calendar Compliance (or equivalent) attempt to bring all the
Sylean/Imperial worlds to a standardized system of weights and measures?
Human (and presumably other race's) Nature will bring forth a multitude of
ways of measuring stuff without some reason or enforcement of a standard
during the long night.

I can see arriving at a newly recontacted planet with their requested "300
tonnes" of electronics parts only to find out that *their* 300 tonnes is
twice what *standard* 300 tons is.

Pete




Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:29:02 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Pirates

Woden2014@aol.com writes:
>>Hans Rancke wrote:
> 
>>>Pirates are one of the elements of the Traveller Universe that unfortunately
>>>dosen't make a whole lot of sense. It's a pity, because they are a lovely
>>>evocative motif, but given the way space ships work they are not really
>>>practical except in very specialized circumstances.
> 
>Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 
>>The trick is setting up those circumstances well...
> 
>>>1) pirate ships are so expensive that a pirate can sell it and retire in
>>>   comfort without having to risk his life going a-pirating. Also, repair
>>>   bills for damage sustained while attempting the capture can easily
>>>   cost more than the cargo you're trying to capture.
> 
>Well, a pirate ship would more than likely be stolen.  That's a hard thing 
>to resell, and at a lower profit margin than stealing other peoples cargoes. 

Not if stealing other people's cargoes is very difficult and dangerous.

>Or they could be barely spaceworthy, cobbled together wrecks with BIG guns.  

Even a ship with a wear value of 10 is worth a lot of money. Lesssee: An
unarmed 200 T freighter is worth around MCr50 from new. 10% of that is
5,000,000 credits. Assuming the pirates don't pay income tax, hat's about
200 years worth of luxury living (~Cr2,000 per month).
 
>As far as damage from capturing other ships, if I were a captain of an 
>unarmed or lightly armed trader, and three or so pirates showed up and 
>told me to heave to, I'd heave to because I'd much rather lose my cargo 
>than my life

So would I, but every Free Trader design I have seen have had provisions
for armaments. So if pirates are a hazard, then they risk running into
armed prey. It's not like it was in the old days on Earth, where proper
defenses required a large crew and was thus impractical for merchants.
And that's not even considering the risk of running into a Q-ship.
 
>>>2) Hiding from patrol ships at the 100 diameter limit is impossible. 
>>>   Hiding on a planet means a race to overhaul the prey before it
>>>   reaches the jump limit. Hiding in a Gas Giant means your chance of
>>>   detecting a refuelling ship is very small (A Gas Giant is big; the
>>>   chance that a ship will decide to refuel close to where you are
>>>   lurking is not very big).
> 
>You mean a trader on a shoe string budget passing up on free fuel?  Not going
>to happen.

Yes it will, as often as possible. To a merchant time is money. Every hour
spent travelling to and from, and refuelling at, a Gas Giant is time where
he is not earning money. The loss of revenue is far more than the meager
savings on the fuel bills. No merchant will refuel at a Gas Giant if an
alternative exists. It is far too expensive. And that's not even counting
any risk of running into pirates.
 
>>>3) A single high-population world can produce enough patrol ships to
>>>   place one at the jump limit of every world in a sector. Certainly
>>>   piracy in any system with a reasonable population and TL is
>>>   impossible, but piracy in remote systems are almost as difficult.
> 
>>Which is why, historically, pirates operated far away from the big powers,
>>and tried to gain legitmacy by becoming privateers.  You're not going to
>>find pirates around Rhylanor, they'll be sneaking around the smaller
>>systems, waiting for a target of oppotunity.

But historically the number of places a pirate could hide in proportion
to the number of ships available to patrol was far larger than they are
in the Traveller Universe. A single high-population world can afford
_hundreds_ of patrol ships with 1/1000th of its naval budget. Provided the
TL is high enough, every planet of more than a million inhabitants can 
afford to secure it's own main world; every world with more than 10 million 
can afford to secure its whole system; every world of more than 100 million 
can patrol all worlds within one jump; every world with more than 1 billion 
can patrol its whole subsector and more; and any world with more than 10
billion can patrol an entire sector. 
 
>>>If the local authorities have a few patrol ships, they can place one near
>>>the jump limit and create a safe arrival and departure zone.
> 
>>Except that the 100-diameter limit for Earth is a sphere with a surface are
>>of roughly 5.2x10^12 km.... quite an area to patrol effectively!

I could give you an argument about that, given detection and weapon ranges,
but its a moot point since they don't need to patrol it all. Just a small
slice of it that the merchants would all know of and use. Comparatively
small, of course; we don't want the merchants colliding.

>The local authorities are just that, local.  They have only limited funds to
>do there jobs.  Some systems fall through the cracks.  

See above. You don't realize just how many ressources even a small world can
command.
 
> Pirates are great plot motivators, they make fabulous reacuring villains, 
>and all around great suprise for the unsuspecting player.  

I agree completely and I've used them myself on occasion, conveniently
ignoring the fact that they don't make sense.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:40:18 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

On Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:37:37 -0500, Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:

> On 21 Sep 97 at 0:23, Sanders wrote:
> 
> > Get over it already.
> 
> I will if you will.

Oh, come on.  This is pathetic.  How old are you anyways?



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:03:02 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: copyright apology

Marc wrote:

>You don't know how hard I had to argue with my own people that we should let
>as many as possible post anything they want to from Traveller on web pages,
>so long as they put on a copyright acknowledgement. I did the same thing for
>2300 AD and Twiligh: 2000.
>
>I think they agreed because I spoke up, but the usual course is what TSR
>took.. don't let anyone do anything just so the trademarks and copyrights
>never have a challenge.

Thank you for speaking up - I suspect that this is the reason that you have
a lot of people who feel very strongly for these games, and maybe it's the
reason behind the 'canon' attitudes that many people have. ;-)

From my own past, the out of print supplements that I photocopied have
gradually been replaced with originals as I hunted them down.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:45:02 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: [none]

In mail Hans Rancke-Madsen write:

>Stationing a patrol ship (or a dozen) near a Gas Giant is not much of a
>problem. Though why anyone should do that when no merchant would bother
>to refuel at one if he had any choice is a question in itself.

Interesting point - my players are currently playing Twilights Peak, and
are making a killing on the Empress Nicholle (a type A2 Far trader with 61
dt cargo for those of you not familiar with this CT and  MT classic!) ,
just dealing in freight. And they have an additional 250 kCr loan covering
expenses to pay off in 12 months...

but for some reason they nearly always refuel at the gas giant to save
expense. I may hit them with a late delivery penalty soon to encourage use
of mainworld refueling.

I think that the average merchant captain with a purification plant may
look at the expense of fuel at a starport as unnecessary.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1862
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 22 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1863



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re:Highports & 100 dia.
Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)
Re: Pirates
Re: Aslan
Task System Position Change
Toronto Traveller Game
Re: Piracy
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Copyright apology... 
Re: Questions about Traveller
Updated FFS Equations Pages
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Crazy loner scientist (was Re: Hacking gunnery-1)
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Jump question...
Re: CSC Sensor Conversion to Bruce's Sensors System 
Re: Firearms in Vacuum

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:08:44 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re:Highports & 100 dia.

Glenn Hoppe wrote:

>Realize that if a ship was jumping from system A to System B, about 50%
>of the entire surface of this 100 dia. limit of Homeworld B is "visible"
>from system A. The chances of other planets' limits "blocking" the
>corridor are slim, to say the least. Other planets would only possibly
>transit Homeworld B's limit along a very thin area close to the orbital
>plane of system B. In other terms, Planets in system B can only block
>Homeworld B if the orbital plane is almost exactly parallel with the
>vector between Star A and Star B. And even if they could block, it could
>only happen rarely, during certain times of the year, or if the orbital
>period of the blocking planet was quite long, maybe during certain years
>in a century...
<snip>
>Space is big. In the majority of cases, it's going to be easy to plot a
>jump vector from one world to another without worrying about what planets
>get in the way. And three highports at 100 dia. for major systems should
>ensure that one will always be "clear" when viewed from a nearby system.

Which of course assumes that the relative positions of gravitational fields
in jump correspond to their real space positions. I like the ideas you are
putting forward, but do wonder if we are going a bit far in the
explanations.

"Your ship tumbles into jump and you feel a slight feeling of nausea as
this  happens. The ship is surrounded by the jump bubble, slowly
disappaiting, and dangerous to look at. 168 hours +/- 10% later you emerge
in a reversal of the process."

This staright lines through jump space is very close to B5 and riding
beacons to jump gates...


Dom


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:33:34 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

As you are new to the TML this may be helpful... in a tongue in cheek sort
of way.

Zhodani agents report that an anonymous source stated (those of you on the
TNE list know who...):

>> XXXXXCENSOREDXXXXX was reported to have written on or about the 22nd August:
>
>   As of 1997, there are basically seven groups on TML:
>
>1) The Old Farts: Convinced that GDW should have stopped with the
>publication of Book: 8 Robots, and even that was ill advised.  Basically
>hate everything published since.  Unfortunately, these have bred:
>
>2) The New Old Farts: as some of the younger players listen to the
>dribble of the Old Farts, they become convinced that the Old Farts were
>right.  Finding it impossible collect enough old CT material to play,
>they instead use MMT and whine about how complex the design sequences
>are.
>
>3) MegaTravellers: People who used to use MT to one degree or another,
>and finding they dislike MMT, have started advocating a MT revival.
>Like modern day disco fans, they seem to have forgotten the worst of
>MT's abuses and only remember what's good about it.
>
>4) TNEers: There still exists a small hard core group of TNE fans on
>TML.  Mostly they spend their time these days laughing at the MMT debate
>over how many D6 or "half D6" to use (all avoided nicely in TNE by using
>a D20), and avoiding the mention of the word "Virus", which tends to
>provoke all the other groups.
>
>5) MMT Know-Nothings: MMT is wonderful.  IG is wonderful.  IG could
>publish a book of 128 blank pages with a MMT cover (preferably with an
>unrelated piece of 1978 Foss art) and they would believe that it is
>wonderful.
>
>6) MMT Masocists: They love MMT.  They hate MMT.  They hate IG, but sign
>up in advance to buy more of their products, sight unseen and then
>complain bitterly about them when they arrive.  They hang around waiting
>for MM to finish "T4.1" and send long letters to the list telling him
>how he can improve it by adopting *their* rules.
>
>7) Bohemians: The more rules published the better--they will just pick
>and chose the ones they like anyway, and include them with the House
>Rules Set (modified GURPS/MT/TNE/CT/AD&D/Gamma World/Rolemaster/2300 AD,
>with a bit of Panzer Leader thrown in for flavor).  They also use their
>own settings, with a few copyrighted Traveller words thrown in for
>flavor.  To date, I can't figure out why they hang around in such a
>hostile place.
>
>   There is also a running, vicious debate between Cannonites (usually
>from groups 1-4) and both MMT crowds.  These debates are interesting
>because you find people who ordinally be at each other's throat (a
>certain Old Fart and a certain TNEer come to mind) as allies.
>
>> A short while later XXX added:
>
>Doomsdayers: Not be be confused with MMT Know-Nothings, Doomsdayers
>support IG and consequently MMT because they are afraid of what might
>happen if some form of Traveller (no matter how bad or how outside the
>original intent) isn't in print.  Their messages usually consist of
>"give IG a break, they haven't been publishing games for very long"
>(despite the fact that IG advertised up all of the long time RPG
>industry times on its staff), "I'm sure that IG will put the errata for
>that on their Web site" (despite the fact that the errata section hasn't
>been updated in months), or some other such dribble.  Failing this, they
>evoke the stock phrase, "but if we don't stick by IG and continue to buy
>their products, there will be no more Traveller," as though Marc
>Miller's lawyers will come to everyone's house and seize all of their
>RPG collections.  Doomsayers sometimes slip during one of their many
>impassioned speeches and talk about the generally lower quality of IG
>products, something that a MMT Know-Nothing would ever do.
>
>Politicians: Not to be confused with people who genuinely support IG or
>MMT, politicians favor both because they are the current publisher and
>the current game system respectively.  If tomorrow IG went under and
>Steve Jackson Games started publishing GURPS: Traveller, they would
>extolling the virtues of SJG and G:T as though they had been in favor of
>them all along.  Politicians will do or say thing (sometimes pretending
>to be a Doomsayer) to increase their power and influence either on TML
>or if they have higher aspirations, with Marc Miller who happens to
>reside there.

This should all be taken with a pinch of salt!

Some other points:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Harold is editor of the Traveller Chronicle (which he mentioned a few
times) and what I have seen of it is not bad.

CT looks dated in some respects.
MT does have its errors, but isn't that bad.
TNE has an interesting background, but I *personally* find the rules
somewhat heavy going.
T4 has some duff products (First Survey and Starships), some okay products
(Central Supply Catalog, T4 rules) and some excellent products (Emperors
Arsenal, Milieu 0, and Pocket Empires). Fire Fusion and Steel would be
excellent if it wasn't for the typos.

But I would recommend waiting for T4.1 being released - if you want to
convert your T4 characters in the meantime I would recommend summing the
total number of skills, and dividing by the number of terms served. This
should total around 5 skills/term in T4. Allow your players to roll the
extra skills needed. Some skills have changed in the new edition - eg
Astrogation replaces Navigation. The task system for T4.1 has been released
for playtesting a while ago, and you should be able to get the difficulties
from the T4 screen. The CT ship construction rules are useable with T4 (I
do it all the time) but you should note that MT/T4 use a lower hull % per
jump number for fuel than CT and T4.

Dom (stopping as this is starting to ramble)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:59:52 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Pirates

Douglas E. Berry writes:
>At 05:38 PM 9/21/97 +0200, Hans Rancke wrote:
>>2) Hiding from patrol ships at the 100 diameter limit is impossible. 
>>   Hiding on a planet means a race to overhaul the prey before it
>>   reaches the jump limit. Hiding in a Gas Giant means your chance of
>>   detecting a refuelling ship is very small (A Gas Giant is big; the
>>   chance that a ship will decide to refuel close to where you are
>>   lurking is not very big).
> 
>Unless you also sneak two crew members aboard the target ship to try a
>hijacking at the time you are manuvering to intercept.

Easier said than done.
 
>Which is why, historically, pirates operated far away from the big powers,
>and tried to gain legitimacy by becoming privateers.  

Pirates seldom turned privateers. Privateers sometimes turned pirate, which
was one reason why navy men generally disliked privateers, but privateering
was a legitimate enterprise while pirating wasn't. (And it wasn't just a
case of one side's privateers being the other side's pirates; the whole
point of having a Letter of Marque was to _avoid_ being treated as a
pirate).

>You're not going to find pirates around Rhylanor, they'll be sneaking 
>around the smaller systems, waiting for a target of oppotunity.

But such targets of opportunity will be few and far between. For one thing,
merchants will avoid intermediate stops as the plague. Every intermediate
stop where they don't discharge one cargo and take on another increases
the overhead and lowers the profitability of the trip. For another, planets
like Rhylanor can afford to station patrol ships in any adjacent systems.
When you've got 20 patrol ships and 200 places to patrol, then pirates may
have a chance. When you have 200 patrol ships and 20 places to patrol they 
don't.

>Most pirates are also legitimate merchants, who have decided to add a
>source of income that is frowned upon.

That's not the impression of how the Imperium work, I must say.
 
>Piracy will be a transitory problem.. lasting a few months at most until
>the locals/Imperium shift enough assets to deal with the situation.  The
>smart pirate captain makes a hit and moves on, the dumb ones.. well. let's
>just say they roll a "2" on the CT Survival roll....

But the Imperium have enough assets that they never need leave any place
unaccounted for. They won't have to shift assets, because they really
should have them in place to begin with (And, yes, I know that's not
the impression many of the modules give us, but many of those modules
were written before anyone at GDW realized just how many ressources the
Imperium  --  well any interstellar state, really  --  actuallty can
command.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:16:52 -0700
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Aslan

Edward Swatschek wrote:

>   I think it may be overstating things to say that Aslan culture is
>male dominated, if one is thinking in terms of male-dominated
>societies in our (Terran) past; instead, the spheres of domination
>are sharply defined.  Remember that female society controls the
>economics of the Hierate (as well as always being in advisory
>positions to male leaders).

Yeah, I agree -- I understood Marc's original post, and subsequent
discussion, to be specifically about political power and authority.
Control over the means of production, if that term isn't too Marxist for
folks on the list <G>, seems to more or less lie in female hands/paws, it's
true.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: 22 Sep 1997 16:05:01 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Task System Position Change

After (finally) converting and reading Marc's revised task system, I want to
publicly change my position.

I used to oppose the T4 task system because I felt it rated skills too
lightly (in relation to attributes).

Now that Marc has added a 'distraction' rule for halving the attribute when
trying to do two tasks at once, I can live with the system.  This change also
supports the 'great minds' proverb :-)

As a referee, I would apply the halving whenever a character (PC or NPC)
splits their attention.  If you have an engineer cross-trained in gunnery,
and during a battle they man the turret while between fights they fix the
drive, I would halve their attribute for the gunnery tasks because they
aren't keeping in training (even if they aren't actually being bothered by
questions from the engineers during the fight).  I don't know whether this is
what Marc intended, but it seems a logical extension of the rule and is how
_I_ always applied it when it was just a house rule of mine.

Robert Prior

------------------------------

Date: 22 Sep 1997 16:15:09 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Toronto Traveller Game

Assuming that Harris doesn't start a strike, I plan on running a hybrid
Traveller game.  Current target is to play 1-2 times a month, Friday
evenings, my place in Richmond Hill (or the Sci-Fi Cafe, if I haven't had
time to clean up :-)

The game will probably be set in the RC, using a mix of T4 and TNE rules,
with MT used for anything I can't remember from these rulebooks.  (MT I have
memorized: the result of a misspent not-quite-middle-age.)

Emphasis will be political/espionage rather than military.  At least some
members of the group should be able to keep their feet in an alley fight, but
no one need take on the Oriflamen Marines.  After we get comfortable, I may
well shift this campaign into a Pocket Empires campaign (especially if
someone is willing to share reffing with me hint hint hint).

For character generation, use the following system:

All characteristics start at 8.  You may change them however you like, but
the average must stay the same.

Use any career you like.  Make one up if you want.  Record all rolls, so I
can balance out any 'good luck' during generation with some 'bad luck' on
your karma.  Remember that character description is more important than
skill+attribute!  

Rather than clutter up the list, please respond to me privately if
interested.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:07:54 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Piracy

>Well, you actually need enough ships to cover the entire sphere of
>the 100 diam limit.

100 diameters is about 34 Brilliant Lances hexes. Typical effective weapons
ranges for weapons might be 10-20 hexes, so you can cover the whole 100-diameter
"circle" (in 2-d) with about 6 ships. In 3-d, you need about 12-15 ships.
Piracy is really only practical in undefended systems (which makes sense;
if piracy was easy and common there'd be no commerce.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: 22 Sep 1997 17:05:42 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

>since we can't count atoms directly we *have* to create an 
>arbitrary unit of mass.

Not so arbitrary.  

The KG is (approx) the mass of 1000 cc of water.  Close to a pound (and other
similar units in common use in Europe).  The gram is 1cc of water (and close
to an ounce).  The tonne is 1 cubic metre of water.

The reason a physical object is used is for the minor decimal places.  But
for practical everyday use (say 2 sigfigs), you can use water.

------------------------------

Date: 22 Sep 1997 17:02:02 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Copyright apology... 

>You don't know how hard I had to argue with my own people that we should let
>as many as possible post anything they want to from Traveller on web pages,
>so long as they put on a copyright acknowledgement. I did the same thing for
>2300 AD and Twiligh: 2000.

I should add here that a few years ago I write to GDW asking for permission
to provide photocopies of out-of-print material to gamers, as well as
enlarged versions of deckplans that I had redrawn.  I was given permission,
provided that I included the copyright notice and the words "Used with
permission." on every page.  Marc and co were _very_ cooperative.  

The moral of the story being: be polite, explain exactly what you want to do,
and follow any conditions he attaches, and you will find Marc to be
(naturally) one of the first Traveller fans who wnts to help you enjoy your
game.

(Now, if he could just persuade IG to pay a line editor...)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:59:48 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

>Well, I haven't followed the sensor range (though my experience is
>that people overestimate, IMO at least, how well sensors would
>work.)

Speaking as the person who did the calculations underlying the current
sensor model, I stand by them (at least for passive sensors.) Traveller
starship powerplants generate enormous amounts of power; if even a small
fraction of it ends up as waste heat, they glow in the IR like you wouldn't
believe. Cooled IR sensors in space can get tremendous sensitivity; good 
computers can process a tremendous amount of data to search for targets; 
starships have lots of surface area and money to spend on huge sensor
arrays; it's remarkably hard to hide. If anything, my sensor models were
too conservative - they (a) assume only 10% waste heat (which is a necessary
counter to the fact that all traveller systems take way to much power - 
"real" starships will have much less powerful powerplants, I think), (b) 
assume well-designed baffling means you can keep 90% of that waste heat
from being seen (by radiating in directions unlikely to contain hostiles),
(c) sensors are operated at about 150 K, (d) you need a 20-sigma detection
over 10 minutes to be sure you see a real target (should probably only be
10-sigma.) 

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:13:57 +0000
From: "Stuart C. Squibb" <scs@vectis.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Updated FFS Equations Pages

I have updated my FFS Equations pages. 

New features:

Equations for Energy Weapons (not printed at the back of the book)

Option to download the Word97 files used to create the pages

The pages are located at:

http://www.vectis.demon.co.uk/traveller/FFSEquations.html

As before, please note that the equations are rendered as GIF images, 
so the pages will take a while to load.

As usual, any feedback gratefully accepted.

Stuart.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart C. Squibb       | Home: scs@vectis.demon.co.uk
Isle of Wight, England | Work: Stuart.Squibb@iwha.swest.nhs.uk
- --------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:27:28 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

At 05:38 PM 9/21/97 +0200, Hans wrote:
>Pirates are one of the elements of the Traveller Universe that unfortunately
>dosen't make a whole lot of sense. It's a pity, because they are a lovely
>evocative motif, but given the way space ships work they are not really
>practical except in very specialized circumstances.

The minimal set of circumstances for piracy to work, and for the economics
of space travel to work, is, I think, the following:

1.  Ships get cheaper
2.  Ships get easier to disable without expensive damage
3.  Cargos get easy to transfer or more value dense
4.  There is some way to get a ship outside easy sighting range for long
enough to take the goodies.

I have my solution that I can live with for #4.  I am trying to decide
between using 1 or 2 as my primary way of making piracy work.

It does bother me that any free trader crew is megarich by any conceivable
standard.  Were they to settle down, they could all live the lives of
princes and kings.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:24:46 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Crazy loner scientist (was Re: Hacking gunnery-1)

At 02:40 PM 9/20/97 -0800, Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> wrote:
>Ethan Henry wrote<egh@klg.com>
>> Also, the idea that someone with Gunenry-3 and Computer-3 can sit
>> down and write Gunnery-3 software in anything less than a decade
>> is silly. If someone writes new computer rules for T4, don't copy
>> the CT rules.

I do, however, allow someone with Gunnery-3 to dramatically improve the
gunnery software for certain special circumstances.

When I play a battle, the players essentially tell me the tactics they want
to use, and the details are worked out by the machines.  If the gunner is
really god, and tells me that she wants the system optimized for someone
who is going to flip the ship occasionally to use the sensor dish, then, if
they guessed right, they will have a gunnery three program for that special
circumstance, and they have a gunner-3 who knows when to activate that.

Lose the gunner, and they are back to gunner-1, or worse if they run the
special software.

>> They're right up there with "crazy loner scientist
>> creates intelligent humanoid robot while multi-trillion dollar
>> R&D company has trouble working toaster" stories. Unless that's
>> what you're going for, of course.
>
>But isn't  "crazy loner scientist creates intelligent humanoid robot
>while multi-trillion dollar R&D company has trouble working toaster"
>somewhat canonical in Traveller. [AB-101 example...]

Traveller is pretty golden age, and I rule that most of the progress is
made by mad scientists, but that the usable implementations that the
economy depends on usually require huge research teams.  For example,
AB-101 required, imo, a lot of tinkering if he was as advanced as kernstein
thought.  Before an AB could be sold on the mass market, there would be
dozens and dozens of man years and many, many megacredits of industrial
design and research needed.

....

>It is of course possible that AB-101 is not as much of a breakthrough as
>Dr Krenstein believes he is (due to pride in his own work) and that a
>robot of AB-101's sophistication could have been made by any of the
>other (a few dozen or so, perhaps ?) TL 15 Int F, Edu C, Robotics-5
>experts in the Imperium.  (Note that Dr Krensteins skill level 5 is in
>CT and MT terms, not T4  terms.)

That is how I play it.  There are very few people at the top, and it is
likely that any one of them could do what the others did, if that was their
oyster.  Since they usually know the other players, they rarely compete
directly, but do compete fiercely in somewhat similar areas.  Likely few of
Kernstein's skill were working on an anthropomorphic robot designed to fool
humans, but there were almost certainly ones working on robot brains, or
long service life systems, or some such.  Likely, the ones working on robot
brains had more life like robots in speech.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:16:44 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

At 02:55 PM 9/20/97 +0000, "Garth Dighton" <gdighton@elite.net> wrote:
>Now I have the T4 rules, and I have several questions (not about the 
>rules so much as the universe's assumptions).

Be warned, there will be a lot of disagreement on those.

>The term "jump point" is used often, both in the books and on the 
>TML.

In my universe, jump and thrusters are very, very sensitive to gas and
dust, solar wind, and all sorts of other factors.  I try to add at least
one new factor for each new sensor invented by the players, so that they
are always concerned about the performance of their drives.

In general, this means that a competent astrogator and pilot can get the
rated performance out of the ship's drives reliably.  If your people are
good, or your drives are in better shape than one would expect, then you
can get much better performance, while the opposite also applies.  It is
very easy in my world to become becalmed, such that your drives are
generating less than a hundredth of their rated thrust.  This gives pirates
plenty of time to act.

As a result, there are approach lanes that a given world is going to
publish.  These are the lanes that it knows the density well enough to keep
the ships running at rated performance.  They publish these lanes in
missives they send to other systems, and a sudden change in the star that
invalidates the lanes is a nightmare for a star port admin. 

Jump is also quirky, in that the better you know the environment, the
better your jumps will work.  Commercial captains tend to be rather
conservative, and to have lousy sensor suites, so they want to have really
good data from the port.  This is expensive to gather, as it is essentially
a full time job for a sensor team, and it is usually a lot cheaper to have
the sensor team using a small sensor close by, thus they prefer to have a
small number of jump points with acceptable tracks to them, and decent
environments for jump.

Anyone with good sensors and a good crew can ignore the published points
fairly easily.  Scouts do this all the time.  So do merchants who need to
go to an unusual destination, or who think they have a flight plan that
will take an hour off their flight time at no additional cost.  Pirates
like people like this.

>Given the above, how does piracy operate? The sensors thread seems to 
>indicate that most planets would have sensor capability at least to 
>the hundred-diameter limit, and at that point a ship leaving the 
>system would jump, leaving the pirates unable to attack the ship in 
>privacy.

Again, because my rules allow the ship to be slowed dramatically, the
pirates have a way of grabbing the vessel.  They also have small auxiliary
HEPLAR drives to get out of the zone before a rescue ship can get to the
scene.

....

>If a noble has a yacht, and wishes to sell it in order to purchase a 
>free trader, what are the protocols involved here? The Yacht has a 
>list price of 33 MCr, the Free Trader about 31 MCr. Could she just 
>make the exchange.

Depends on how you want to run the game.  Were it mine, I would run it as
"The noble has always considered the merchant ship "Indefensible" her own
private yacht."  When the Evil Brother boots her out, she essentially told
him that if he tried to take away the Indefensible, she would kill him.  He
believed her.

Her story to the other players may well be that she is happy to be rid of
him, but internally, she may be hoping to make contacts, etc., to get the
control of the house back, despite being younger.

Alternatively, play it as the settlement - she was given a certain fraction
of the house's assets in return for waiting the right to take up the title.
 I consider this standard in Noble families, where it is beneficial to have
a dozen possible heirs, but you want all but a small number out of the way
once one of them inherits.  I usually make such sign-offs conditional on
the third child, or the first to reach majority, so those kids have a risky
life...

Everyone expected her to take the yacht, or shares in the family business,
or ownership of one of the many manor houses and assets to support her
comfortably, but she, instead, took ownership of the newest, spiffiest ship
in the yards.  This has Elder Brother a bit annoyed.  Perhaps it was a
prototype in some way, or has something special about it that he wants
back.  She might even know that...

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:52:11 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

> Provably correct software already exists. It's mostly restricted to
> things like controlling nuclear plants and other "cost is no object, it
> must be *safe*" type applications. 
>  
> There's generally no *point* in trying to prove the correctness of
> software if you don't have a proven correct *processor* to run it on. A
> few such exist, but they aren't used in mass market PCs. 


Do you know the names of the companies that sell these?  Last time I looked 
in earnest (1992) I could not find anyone who would claim that their system 
was "provably correct" (at the time I was working for a guy who acted as one 
of the advisors for British Standards in the area of high-reliability safety 
and control systems).

The best system we found was following a new (in 1992) German standard, I 
forget the initials for the standard, but the manufacturer of the system was 
P&F (Pepperel & Fuchs, I think).  They claimed some very high reliability 
for their hardware + software, but could not guarantee (only make 
"educated guesses" about) the accuracy of the signals coming from the 
instruments in the field.  These systems are, I believe, used in civilian 
nuclear installations and on offshore platforms.


The company I work for was involved in the BNFL thermal oxide re-processing 
plant design, and I'm sure we could not find "provably correct" control 
systems for that plant.  The system uses multiple redundancy to give tiny 
failure chances (1 incident per 100,000 years was the overall system target 
I recall BNFL stating in the public equiry (secrecy forbids me telling you 
the real number ... which fortunately I don't know :-)


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:06:02 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Jump question...

I want to make sure I understand JUMP correctly.

I start at Planet A.  In order to make a 'safe' jump, I move to 100 diameters away from 
the planet.  I can move anywhere, so long as it is 100 diameters away, right?

Also, I can jump 'closer', but the risk of failure is increased, correct?

Now, when I jump into the new system, 1 jump away, then where do I end up?  Do I randomly 
pick a distance and heading?  Is is the same coordinates in the next system as where I 
left?

A Jump Primer would be helpful, because Traveller is the only place where "White Men CAN 
Jump".

Thanks!
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:10:41 -0700
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: CSC Sensor Conversion to Bruce's Sensors System 

Just one major comment: It's much, much better from a player
tolerance point of view if you get rid of lots of numbers that
have 0.5 on the end by multiplying the whole system by 2.
Integer points make people feel much better.

- -george

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:15:42 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Andrew Boulton wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970918152923.1780B-100000@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> > Well, no, a bullet is not a lifting body, and in a gravity field follows
> > a ballistic path, ie: if you fire a rifle with zero elevation, the bullet
> > rises above the point of firing.
> 
> Huh? What makes it rise? Surely it should only fall.

Ahhh...the omission of a single word...that, of course, should read
"_never_ rises above the point of firing..."

My oops.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1863
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 22 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1864



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: CSC Sensor Conversion to Bruce's Sensors System 
Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)
Re: CSC/FFS2 conversions
Re: Firearms in Vacuum
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re:
Re: Pirates
Re: Piracy
Vista Tender (was: Ship Design Question)
Re: Jump question...
Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)
Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Jump question...
Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:27:03 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: CSC Sensor Conversion to Bruce's Sensors System 

At 11:10 AM 9/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Just one major comment: It's much, much better from a player
>tolerance point of view if you get rid of lots of numbers that
>have 0.5 on the end by multiplying the whole system by 2.
>Integer points make people feel much better.
>

George,

Good point!! I agree that it is much easier.

Thanks

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:25:29 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)

We assume that the pirates detect and pursue vessels.  

Another tactic for the pirates, and one I think that would be more practical, would be to 
set up a little closer to a trade route, and send out a distress signal, thus luring their 
prey in closer.

THEN AMBUSH!  Get the goods and run.


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:54:46 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: CSC/FFS2 conversions

At 11:13 AM 9/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>Have you given any thought to gravitic and nuclear sensors?
>My feeling is that both of these are impractical at starship combat ranges -
>gravitic sensors will only work if thruster plates give off really ludicrous
>amounts of gravity radiation, and nuclear sensors only if you have
>really good neutrino shielding to protect the sensor - which then means that
>you can just shield your power plant. If I were to produce rules for them
>they'd be very short-ranged. 

I made a mistake on an earlier post the CSC Far Orbit sensor has task of
Formidable to to locate a target at Far Orbital range and Impossible+1 to
detect anything at RF 12 Interplanetary. So the listed range is not the
maximum range.

Well I would like see some implementation fo gravitic and nuclear sensors
despite the impracticallities. It fits more into my type of Traveller.

By the way how do you shield for neutrinos?

>One thing you might look into - how do these sensors compare in size to 
>the sensors in FFS2? I did the conversions from FFS1 by roughly matching
>the *size* (especially surface area) rather than claimed sensitivity
>(since the sensitivity numbers in FFS1 and CSC were basically made up 
>at random.) What you might do is something like this:
>(1) Pick the biggest sensor in CSC
>(2) Find the FFS2 sensor that most closely matches its surface area,
>volume, and price (with surface area being the most important)

None come even close.;-( but using surface are as priority see below.

>(3) Give that CSC sensor the same sensitivity as the FFS2 sensor
>(4) Give other sensors sensitivity with the scaling in FFS2 - 
>factor of decrease in area is 0.5 reduction in sensitivity.

Well the above might have worked it FFS2 had not changed the sensor values
from FFS1.

Example a Far Orbital CSC sensor has power input of 10Mw, an area of
1000m2, a cost of 7Mcr, and a volume of .25m3 at TL 15.
 
The closest FFS2 PEMS sensor would be a area of 500m2, a volume of 500m3,
power of  500kw or .5Mw, cost of 2500Mcr, and a sensitivity or 14.5. 

Comparsion
             CSC      FFS2
Area m2      1000     500
Volume m3    0.25     500
Power Mw     10       0.5
Cost Mcr     7        2500
Sensitivity  13(26)   14.5(29)    

I much prefer the staging up from the Vehicle passive sensors in FFS2, even
though the table 205 does not give the area of the antenna or the power usage.

By the way what does the resulution at 50,000km scale to ie .07m2 or what,
and what does the * mean by the last two .07* in that column?

I am going to be doubling the sensitivity values as per George's suggestion.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:51:37 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 lugh1@juno.com wrote:

> have you ever fired a weapon with tracers ? [ yes I know half of us are
> x-mil. ] if you have you would notice that bullets do not have a flat
> tragectory , the rise then fall like a arc . I was surprised first time I
> saw it . I can only imagine the effects of this in a vacuum . also i have
> the across the bright face module so I know all about dinomn .
> in short I think a conventional firearm would shoot up into space . gauss
> is supposed tpo have a very flat trag. so that would be a different story
> . IMHO 
> 
> oppinions on this 

It is because you are not holding the rifle barrel completely flat.
A bullet follows a ballistic path, always, period. ANY projectile that
does NOT carry an additional propulsion source follows a ballistic path,
be it a bullet, a gauss round, or a 155mm shell.
It may be very flat, it may be pronounced.  Because of this fact sights on
rifles are designed to take this into account. Attach a level to your
rifle sometime, make sure it is entirely level, and then determine where
your aim point is. It should, if the rifle is accurately sighted in, be
aimed at a point _below_ the rifle barrel. Note, with high power rifles,
this will be  quite hard to determine, because a high speed projectile has
a pronouncedly flath path.

Go look it up, any physics text will show the principles, it's a classic
 problem that is covered in Newtonian physics.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:45:21 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

Glenn Hoppe wrote:

> The metric system was in use in the scientific community in the 70's.
> Today the English system is *still* the official system in the US (and a
> number of other countries that I can count on one hand). Things are no
> different now then they were in the 70s.
>

 Nope the "official" system is metric. Just that most 'mericans loudly
objected to the change. So implementation has lagged.

- --
Evyn,
Warleader of the Clan MacDude
Yuppie Hunter of the Forgotten Surf
 Fortalice Desertum
 AD. 1997

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:49:09 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re:

At 12:02 PM 9/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>Just a correction I believe that George was talking about doubling the
>>values for sensitivities ie a 12 becomes a 24.
>
>Right, but then you have to double the range bands (so that the
>sensitivity calculation is still "signal = sensitivity + signature - range)
>and then the range bands don't match what I was told Marc was going to use.
>

Bruce

Hmm maybe I am being alittle dense today, but I thought the sensitivity
value(s) was just a numberic value that you had come up with.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:25:36 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Pirates

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
> Douglas E. Berry writes:
> >You're not going to find pirates around Rhylanor, they'll be sneaking
> >around the smaller systems, waiting for a target of oppotunity.
> 
> But such targets of opportunity will be few and far between. For one thing,
> merchants will avoid intermediate stops as the plague. Every intermediate
> stop where they don't discharge one cargo and take on another increases
> the overhead and lowers the profitability of the trip. For another, planets
> like Rhylanor can afford to station patrol ships in any adjacent systems.
> When you've got 20 patrol ships and 200 places to patrol, then pirates may
> have a chance. When you have 200 patrol ships and 20 places to patrol they
> don't.

I must disagree. You're right in saying that Rhylanor _can_ easily 
afford to put a gazillion patrol ships in adjacent systems to reduce
piracy.

Why would they? Traveller's economic system has a very capitalistic feel 
to it, IMO. Governments aren't relied upon to support businesses.
Rather, it is up to the business to ensure that they can make a profit 
on their own. This means that each trading company must weigh the risks 
involved with shipping freight/passengers, and equip their ships 
sufficiently to deal with those risks.

In the Imperium, most of the freight and passengers are hauled by the 
large corporations, not by the individually-owned traders. The large 
corporations will handle their own security, usually by arming/armoring 
their vessels enough that pirates will think twice before attacking 
them. 

This leaves the little ships as targets.

So Rhylanor wouldn't bother sending ships to adjacent systems. They'd
have the attitude of "if the merchants want to sell us their stuff,
they'll deal with any and all problems themselves". Of course, the
shipping companies simply transfer the cost of taking precautions to
the consumer anyway but that's not the government's problem.

That's part of the reason it's so tough being a small freighter.
You must cough up cash you don't have to arm your ship. Then, to 
cover those costs, you must buy speculative cargo, since freight doesn't
pay well (because those pesky large shipping companies keep the freight
rate down). Then, to top it all off, some pirate picks on you and
steals that same cargo.

Life as an independent merchantman is tough!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Piracy

I've played a Corsair, and until I picked the wrong fight, I was pretty
successful.  Let me pass on some of the things that I did, and you can
decided if they should have worked or not.

Class A, B, and C starports are your friends.  Ships advertise for
cargo and passengers (including destination world and schedule).  This
makes it easy to decide whether to take them in-system or precede them to
the destination world and wait for them to arrive.  Generally, the arrival
point is much easier to predict than the departure point.

It's generally pretty easy to find out what the most valuable cargo is
available, and where it is destined to go, just by posing as a trader and
contacting brokers.  Then, just follow the money!  Making friends with the
clerks at the starport is good.  Remember, starports sell pre-generated
flight plans that give you all the information you need to pick up your
target at either the jump-point or the breakout point.  Clerks are
relatively low paid too...  Even if the targt does not buy a pre-generated
jump play, chances are pretty good that it will file a courtesy flight
plan (or may be required to) that, if you can get a copy, will give you a
lot of the information you need for a successful ambush.

If you can beat a ship to the break out point, you have time to check for
System defense and piracy supression ships.  If you can position yourself
right, you may be able to catch the target before it gets good system
information from it's sensors.

Ships are the most valuble commodity, true, but the hardest to dispose of.
Remember, the PASSENGERS can be valuble.  The passengers carry valubles.
The cargo can be extremely valuble.  The captain will be carrying
(usually) a great deal of portable, and easily liquidated, wealth (ships
payment, ship's funds, crew salaries, etc...)  Also, the mail may contain
a fair amount of wealth too...  (bearer bonds, transaction notices,
information...)

Many ships will be willing to part with their cargo (ie. dump it) if it
will prevent a boarding or as part of a negotiated cease fire.  This can
save a _lot_ of time.

Jump ships are nice, but the INTRA-system cargo and passenger shuttles
ususally a heck of a lot easier to take, less guarded, and carry much the
same cargo.

Keep a jump plot running and don't hesitate to run.  It's generally easier
to explain to your crew why you ran from a fight, than it is to explain to
the magistrate why you started it...

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Vassilakos <jimv@e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Vista Tender (was: Ship Design Question)

Garth Dighton <gdighton@elite.net> wrote:
> I just started fooling around with the QSDS (using the most recent 
> version I found on the Web), and I wanted to see if I did my design 
> correctly. There were parts of the process I wasn't sure I 
> understood.
> 
> For my design, I wanted to build a ship mentioned by Jim Vassilakos 
> in his WORLDMAP.EXE program, the Vista Tender. Very little 
> information was given about it. It was built on a Wedge frame 
> of about 200 tons, carried two 24-ton short-range fighters in 
> external grapples, had 1 triple laser turret on top of the ship, and 
> could maneuver at 6 G's. It also had a crew of 4 (including the 
> fighter pilots) and had fuel scoops and a purification plant.

<snip>

> My questions are: where are my mistakes, if any, and how could I 
> design this ship more efficiently? (more cargo space, cheaper, etc.)

Hi Garth... I didn't take the Vista from any particular book but
was rather using high guard (classic book 5) rules along with some
liberal interpretations of what a minimized crew could accomplish...
The ship does not conform to QSDS or Brilliant Lances or any other
Traveller ship construction system except for high guard (what can
i say... i'm an old fuddy-duddy).

Design Philosophy:

It became apparent in the early years of the 2nd Civil War
that the battles were being won or lost on the strength of
the carrier fleets. Hence, carriers became the targets of
the war, and capital ships shifted their emphasis from
planetary bombardment to carrier assault.

In a mad rush to counteract this development, the Emperor
commissioned ten-thousand Vista Class Tenders as a means
of breaking up the carrier/capital ship conflict and
overwhelming the enemy by sheer numbers. The move proved
remarkably successful.

During past battles, fighters had a strong vested interest
in protecting their carrier (without it, they would never get
back home). Hence, carriers would tend to enter realspace
at a relatively distant (safe) range from the target, losing
all possibility for surprise, and only a portion of the
squadron would be committed, reducing the overall offensive
capacity of the vessel.

The tactics of the Vista Tenders were very different. Because
several hundred could jump simultaneously, the loss of any
one, or even several, was relatively minor, and because they
were much smaller than the carriers, they were much less
vulnerable, as a whole, to the big weapons of the capital
ships. All in all, the disemination of carrying capacity among
a variety of small tenders meant that greater risks could be
taken, and this in turn changed the way the entire war was
fought.

Added to this was the fact that tankers could drop supplies of
hydrogen in the deep of space, allowing the fleets to take
advantage of their powerful engines coupled with their strangely
low fuel capacity (which made the ships far cheaper than they
otherwise would have been). Hence, for a surprisingly low cost,
the Emperor weilded a very fast, very effective tool which could
leapfrog opponents, shed damage more easily than any of the big
ships ever could, and effectively stomp the interstellar battle-
field.

After the war, many of the battlescared Vistas were retired and
sold into private hands or refurbished by the scout service.
They proved surprising effective in survey operations along the
frontier. Unlike the usual 100-ton scout, the Vistas were much
more battle-worthy (having been bred for war), and the fighter
complement (which was completely optional) allowed them to more
effectively scout situations where a possible threat was posed
by the locals. Further, their ability to leapfrog long distances
allowed them to scout systems which were too difficult to reach
otherwise. Often, particularly on long-distance scouting
missions, instead of carrying two fighters, they will carry a
load of highly-enriched fuel which they will deposit en route
for the final return jump.

Technical Specifications:

Hull: 136.5 tons standard (wedge-shaped)
      186.5 tons fully loaded (dispersed structure)
Range: 1 parsec fully loaded, 2 parsecs unloaded,
   6 parsecs with sufficient drop tanks
Ship's Boats: Two 24-ton short-range fighters
Defenses: None
Offenses: One triple laser turret on dorsal (top) surface
   Note: Cannot be repaired from inside the ship.
Maneuver: Capable of 6G maneuver, streamlined, with
   two five-ton back legs and gravitic pressors along
   ventral (lower) surface. Capable of hovering in
   landing orientation in up to three gravities.
Crew: Four
   1 pilot/navigator
   1 engineer
   2 fighter pilots (to double in 2ndary roles)
Additional Features: Onboard scoops and fuel purification

jimv@empirenet.com

PS: The layout of this boat is available as part of "worldmap.zip"
at http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~jimv

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:56:38 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Jump question...

Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:
> 
> I start at Planet A.  In order to make a 'safe' jump, I move to 100 diameters away from
> the planet.  I can move anywhere, so long as it is 100 diameters away, right?
> 

Correct, as long as you're not within 100 diameters of ANY major
planetary mass. So, if you're moving away from a gas giant's moon,
you should be 100 gas giant diameters away before you jump in addition
to 100 moon diameters away.

> Also, I can jump 'closer', but the risk of failure is increased, correct?

Yes. The actual consequences of "failure" depend upon which Traveller
system you're using.

> 
> Now, when I jump into the new system, 1 jump away, then where do I end up?  Do I randomly
> pick a distance and heading?  Is is the same coordinates in the next system as where I
> left?
> 

You end up 100 diameters away from the primary star, in my universe,
since the star is the largest body in the system. Also, you're generally
at a tangent to the ecliptic plane, in my universe, since that's 
generally the safest spot to emerge from jumpspace.

In my world, and only if a player asks, I randomly pick one of the
two possible points matching my criteria. It really doesn't matter
as far as travel times goes.

> A Jump Primer would be helpful, because Traveller is the only place where "White Men CAN
> Jump".
> 

Nyuck nyuck!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:16:40 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)

Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:
> 
> We assume that the pirates detect and pursue vessels.
> 
> Another tactic for the pirates, and one I think that would be more practical, would be to
> set up a little closer to a trade route, and send out a distress signal, thus luring their
> prey in closer.
> 
> THEN AMBUSH!  Get the goods and run.
> 

This has limited use, though. After a few decades of this tactic,
only well-armed kick-butt ships would respond to distress calls.
Lesser ships would suddenly (wink wink) have sensor difficulties
preventing them from detecting the SOS.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:20:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)

In mail you write:

>>>2) Hiding from patrol ships at the 100 diameter limit is impossible. 
>>>   Hiding on a planet means a race to overhaul the prey before it
>>>   reaches the jump limit. Hiding in a Gas Giant means your chance of
>>>   detecting a refuelling ship is very small (A Gas Giant is big; the
>>>   chance that a ship will decide to refuel close to where you are
>>>   lurking is not very big).
>
> You mean a trader on a shoe string budget passing up on free fuel?  Not going
> to happen.

Sit down and figure out how *long* it takes to get from the gas giant
to the mainworld. You'll find that if you consider the number of cargo
trips per year you can make, refuelling at gas gaints *loses* money,
because you can't make as many trips per year!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:12:52 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

In mail you write:

> On 1997-09-20 22:34, Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote the 
> following:
>
>>> The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game why 
>>> would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use system of 
>>> weights and measures? 
>>
>>Ah yes, nice scientific and rational... Like having your unit of mass
>>be determined by a hunk of platinum in France. :-)
>
> Actually, I thought it was an iridium-platinum alloy, but I'll try not to 
> be nitpicky. ;-)
>
> I know your remark was in jest, but lets make a distinction between the 
> irrationality of choice of base units and the rationality of derived 
> units... since we can't count atoms directly we *have* to create an 
> arbitrary unit of mass.
>
> Heck, all base units are arbitrary, be they based on such-and-such a 
> number of wavelengths of this-or-that, or defining the second as being 
> 1/blah blah-th the time it takes light to travel that far.

Sure. But my point was that the Kilogram is not a unit that can be
reproduced in the lab. Instead you have to rely on the ability to trace
your set of weights to the standard set.

But the meter, second, coulumb, etc *can* be reproduced in the lab.
Thus if somebody dropped a Big Rock(tm) on Paris, measurements of time
and distance wouldn't be affected. But we'd have a real mess with
regards to high precision mass measurements.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:10:23 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Jump question...

At 01:06 PM 9/22/97 -0500, you wrote:

>I want to make sure I understand JUMP correctly.

>I start at Planet A.  In order to make a 'safe' jump, I move to 100
diameters away from the planet.  I can move anywhere, so long as it is 100
diameters away, right?

Correct.

>Also, I can jump 'closer', but the risk of failure is increased, correct?

You could concievably jump from the hanger on the ground.  The risk is high
inside 100d, and much higher in side 10d.

>Now, when I jump into the new system, 1 jump away, then where do I end up?
 >Do I randomly pick a distance and heading?  Is is the same coordinates in
>the next system as where I left?

If you have charts for the destination system, you pick the point you wish
to arrive at.  TNE had a useful little table for detrmining how exact your
emergence was, and how much fuel you needed to burn to get back on course.

Unless something goes wrong, you'll be 100 diameters from your target world.

If you don't have charts, you just have to jump blind.  A competant Scout
team can usually figure where the habital zone for the star is, and place
you in that region.

>A Jump Primer would be helpful, because Traveller is the only place where
"White Men CAN Jump".

1981 NFC Championship game, 49ers vs. Cowboys. 4th quarter, Montana to
Clark.  The Catch.  That white man did jump, and we love him for it!

<sorry, still stoked over all my teams looking good this week, go Niners,
Giants, and Mariners!!>

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:33:11 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

At 03:33 PM 9/22/97 +0100, Dom Mooney wrote:

>Zhodani agents report that an anonymous source stated (those of you on the
>TNE list know who...):
>
>>> XXXXXCENSOREDXXXXX was reported to have written on or about the 22nd
August:

I missed this!! Those darn Templars....

>>   As of 1997, there are basically seven groups on TML:

>3) MegaTravellers: People who used to use MT to one degree or another,
>and finding they dislike MMT, have started advocating a MT revival.
>Like modern day disco fans, they seem to have forgotten the worst of
>MT's abuses and only remember what's good about it.

There was something bad about Mega Errata?

>6) MMT Masocists: They love MMT.  They hate MMT.  They hate IG, but sign
>up in advance to buy more of their products, sight unseen and then
>complain bitterly about them when they arrive.  They hang around waiting
>for MM to finish "T4.1" and send long letters to the list telling him
>how he can improve it by adopting *their* rules.
>
>7) Bohemians: The more rules published the better--they will just pick
>and chose the ones they like anyway, and include them with the House
>Rules Set (modified GURPS/MT/TNE/CT/AD&D/Gamma World/Rolemaster/2300 AD,
>with a bit of Panzer Leader thrown in for flavor).  They also use their
>own settings, with a few copyrighted Traveller words thrown in for
>flavor.  To date, I can't figure out why they hang around in such a
>hostile place.

Oohh.. I'm a solid type 6.5  It seems that the Bohemians tend to be the
loudest advocates of what i call the "Settlers", thise Traveller fans how
consider the 3I settinhjg to be Traveller's defining characteristic.

>   There is also a running, vicious debate between Cannonites (usually
>from groups 1-4) and both MMT crowds.  These debates are interesting
>because you find people who ordinally be at each other's throat (a
>certain Old Fart and a certain TNEer come to mind) as allies.

Wow, I'm a heretic too!  Since I'm a type 6.5 Canonite.

>> A short while later XXX added:
>
>Doomsdayers:

Hi, my name is Doug, and I'm a recovering Doomsdayer.

>Politicians: Not to be confused with people who genuinely support IG or
>MMT, politicians favor both because they are the current publisher and
>the current game system respectively.  If tomorrow IG went under and
>Steve Jackson Games started publishing GURPS: Traveller, they would
>extolling the virtues of SJG and G:T as though they had been in favor of
>them all along.  Politicians will do or say thing (sometimes pretending
>to be a Doomsayer) to increase their power and influence either on TML
>or if they have higher aspirations, with Marc Miller who happens to
>reside there.

If it gets me published....

>This should all be taken with a pinch of salt!

Naaahhh.. a near-c chunk of salt would be more appropriate.

>Some other points:
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>CT looks dated in some respects.

Rules wise, yes, but the adventures and backround have stood the test of time.

>MT does have its errors, but isn't that bad.

Especially the DGP stuff.

>TNE has an interesting background, but I *personally* find the rules
>somewhat heavy going.

But the vast number of character occupations, along with the ability to
import from T2K and DC, made up for some of the problems.. I never ran TNE,
just played it, so I can't speak from a Ref's perspective on this one.  TNE
also gave the best space combat system for Traveller, Brillant Lances.

>T4 has some duff products (First Survey and Starships), some okay products
>(Central Supply Catalog, T4 rules) and some excellent products (Emperors
>Arsenal, Milieu 0, and Pocket Empires). Fire Fusion and Steel would be
>excellent if it wasn't for the typos.

I'd include Pocket Empires, Psionics Institutes, and the BITS version of
Long Way Home on the great items list.

The quality is improving slowly.. speaking as a writer, it's very hard to
produce workable, good material under the time constraints we're given.
I'd rant about my current situation, but that would be bad...
>
>But I would recommend waiting for T4.1 being released

Agreed, from everything we've seen, T4.1 is going to be what we hoped for
all along, assuming IG doesn't let a crew of gibbons on PCP do the editing
and printing again...


- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1864
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 23 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1865



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Mechwarrior & Traveller
Piracy and Jump
Encounters
Re: Aslan
BANDAGE & WEB SITE
MERCENARY COSTS
Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)
Re: Crazy loner scientist (was Re: Hacking gunnery-1)
Re: Live Campaigns Survey
Re: Metrics, was Re: Gurps Traveller
Harold:
Re: Milieu 0 Campaign Physical Condition ?
Re: GURPS Traveller
PzKw Maus
Re: Jump question...
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
Traveller Story:  Pysadian Jail

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:11:09 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Mechwarrior & Traveller

Moin Mark Urbin,

>    If your guys are mercs with a G-Carrier with decent plasma gun turrent
> mounted...you alter the balance of power on the planet you are on.  If the
> best you got is a 4mm Gauss rifle...You use your air raft to wrap really
> strong cable around their knees... :-)

	I normaly shock BlechFarce players with telling that a Mech
	in traveller is a very practical thing to suppress hinterworld
	people, but dos'nt have any real combat impact.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:25:53 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Piracy and Jump

Privateering in the 16th century etc was pretty disreputable, although
there are a number of (notably French) naval heroes who went 'on the
account' as it was referred to sometimes. There was, however, a fine line
between legitimate 'guerre de course' on the account, where the captain had
a letter of marque and could claim to be waging commerce warfare for his
country, and the out-and-out pirate who just robbed everyone at will.
	
Perhaps the deciding factor was simply - who caught you?

Jump: I reckon the Astrogator earns his money. Unless the ship is running a
preprogrammed course card bought from the Port Authority, the Astrogator is
responsible for finding a safe point to jump from, giving the pilot
instructions so that the ship comes out with the right residual momentum at
the far end, setting up a course that doesn't go through a star or planet,
checking sensors to see that there's no gravity well close enough to cause
problems - like an uncharted nickel-iron asteroid with just enough G to
cause a misjump - they're easy enough to detect with powerful active
sensors, but I reckon you could miss one if you weren't careful. Then the
Astrogator talks to the Engineers about Jump fields and suchlike, goes off
to his stateroom and has a quiet breakdown. A week later he has to confirm
position, hopefully he DOESN'T have to figure out where the ship has ended
up but it's possible. He has to check and confirm mainworld course and
remain alert to recalculate courses if deviations are required. He'll
constantly (with computer assistance) be rechecking the course to make the
fastest run/best use of fuel etc.

Many of us neglect Jumpspace - we focus on doing stuff on the planet, maybe
a little about the trip to 100 diameters, but actually you can do a lot
with that 168 hours. What does everyone do during that week? Spending a
little time on this is not only a great opportunity for some roleplaying,
but also serves to throw players off the scent when you do something to
them in Jspace. They may be wary the first time you ask, 'what's everyone
doing on Tuesday then?' 

And there are many things one can do in Jspace. Apart from the obvious
'Murder On The Rhylanor Express' idea, that is.

... live cargo that gets loose - can be comic or lethal.... Ten minutes to
J-emergence and the chief engineer is drunk/in the bath/having another
psychotic episode and locked himself in the Gig.... Wierd Jspace effects as
a result of misjump.... Coming out of jump into a dust cloud or nebula.
Sirens, alerts, panic. 

I've always taken Jspace as a non-place. Nobody understands it, though a
few people have good theories. (That neatly handwaves the gravitic
interference problem aside). I once decided that all Jspace was the SAME
non-place, so everything that had ever been in Jspace was in there all at
once, always. Thus you can have strange effects like stray messages or the
time three Rule Of Man crewmen from the Solomani cruiser Navarino - lost in
a misjump a thousand years an more ago - walked out of thin air into the
gunroom of the frigate Saberwolf. Upon inspection, it was found that the
Wolf (built during the Hard Times with ancient salvaged parts many times
recycled) had been built with some parts from the wreck of the Navarino.

You can do wierd stuff like that once in a while. It makes a change from
meeting that riotous mob and those fugitives the encounter tabel keeps
throwing up. How come there's no 'man walking dog', 'postman', 'old lady
doing the shopping' encounters? 

I mean, why do I always run into those Marines with their ATV in the Post
Office?

Martin.









 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:45:25 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Encounters

Here's the alternative 'Mundane Encounter Generator', for those times when
the characters meet someone really quite ordinary. Roll 2D:
Die Qty	Type			Remarks		Key:
2    1D	Cops 			D,V,H			D: The group have doughnuts
3    1D	Checkout assistants	T,C			V: Vehicle, usually parked badly
4    1D	School children		N,C			H: The group are wearing hats
5    3D	Commuters		P,H,U			T: The group wear tasteless clothing 
6    1D	Accountants		S			C: The group are chewing gum
7    1	Old Man 		A			P: The group carry newspapers
8    1D	Workmen		-			U: The group have umbrellas
9    3D	Market researchers	Cl			S: The group wear suits
10  6D	Tourists			J,Ph			J: The group is pointing and jabbering
11  2D  	Students		B			Ph: The group has photographic equipment
12  2D 	Local People		Sh			B: The group is being beaten up by locals
							A: The group has a large ill-tempered dog
							Sh: The group is shopping.
							-: The group is standing around doing nothing
							N: The group is noisy and irritating.	
							Cl: The group have clipboards.


Any ideas for expansion?

(I hope you've all got better things to do than this!)

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:53:55 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Aslan

Moin Kenji Schwarz,

> >   I think it may be overstating things to say that Aslan culture is
> >male dominated, if one is thinking in terms of male-dominated
> >societies in our (Terran) past; instead, the spheres of domination
> >are sharply defined.  Remember that female society controls the
> >economics of the Hierate (as well as always being in advisory
> >positions to male leaders).
> 
> Yeah, I agree -- I understood Marc's original post, and subsequent
> discussion, to be specifically about political power and authority.
> Control over the means of production, if that term isn't too Marxist for
> folks on the list <G>, seems to more or less lie in female hands/paws, it's
> true.

	imho male in the aslan society perhaps think to have power,
	and females there like to make them think so. The aslan hero
	searching hornor in the wilds, only to come back and to have
	something to show, so that he can have not one - but many women.

	While the 3I has its MegaCorps and they have their pirates
	for fighting the dark side of the trade war, the Aslan female
	driven MegaCorps have a much easier standing. They dont need
	to hide their pirates, they are proud of them.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:01:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: BANDAGE & WEB SITE

      Okay by popular demand the web sites location is at:

Members.aol.com\kagekiha\traveller\index

      Otherwise known as the AAB site.

      For the write-up on Bandage look under the Index to the Journal (i.e.
JTAS).
It should be up before this message gets to the digest anyway.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:01:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: MERCENARY COSTS

     From Mercenary Book 5:

"The amount paid to a mercenary unit will vary greatly depending upon the
severity of the mission, whether the contract involves a success-only payment
clause, how much of the expense of logistically maintaining the unit is
assumed by the patron, etc. However, as a guide, the lowest that a mercenary
unit will recieve in actual cash payment (assuming up front money, all
maintenance expenses covered by the patron, a low threat mission, and no
particular reputation for excellence by the mercenary unit) would be about
Cr60000 per month por part thereof per platoon. Since the payroll of a fifty
man platoon will run in the neighborhood of CR 15000, this would leave about
CR 22500 as profit and a like amount as shares. A battalion-sized unit with a
good reputation working on a success-only contract for high stakes could
easily receive several millions in payment.

Bryan Borich

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:22:51 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

> >1) The Old Farts: 

> >2) The New Old Farts: 

> >3) MegaTravellers: 


(etc.)

This post JUST CRACKS ME UP!!!!!!



> >6) MMT Masocists: They love MMT.  They hate MMT.  They hate IG, but sign
> >up in advance to buy more of their products, sight unseen and then
> >complain bitterly about them when they arrive.  They hang around waiting
> >for MM to finish "T4.1" and send long letters to the list telling him
> >how he can improve it by adopting *their* rules.


I guess I'm one of these.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:37:08 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Crazy loner scientist (was Re: Hacking gunnery-1)

> At 02:40 PM 9/20/97 -0800, Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> wrote:
> >Ethan Henry wrote<egh@klg.com>
> >> Also, the idea that someone with Gunenry-3 and Computer-3 can sit
> >> down and write Gunnery-3 software in anything less than a decade
> >> is silly. If someone writes new computer rules for T4, don't copy
> >> the CT rules.

There is a great set of rules for writing computer programs in BJTAS#1. 
These expand on the basic rules in the Traveller Book.

It's a coincidence, but we actually had a character in our game last
night who wanted to try his hand writing Auto/Evade.

It's 14 weeks down the line, and he still hasn't done it.

The BTJAS#1 rules are good.  One of the things I like is, at the end,
after you've written the program, you roll to see what size the program
is (We're using the old CT RAM and High Memory type rules for computers
from the Traveller Book).

The roll is 1D-computer skill.  This guy is a computer-2, so even if he
writes the damn thing (it's now 3.5 months since he started), it can
turn out to be too big for the ship's computer!

I like these rules.  I've tweaked them a little, of course, but it makes
writing computer programs for a living not very viable.

That's left to the big megacorporations with all the high tech gizmos.

You should check out these rules if you want to add programming to your
campaign.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:53:05 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns Survey

Robert Eaglestone wrote:
>>I'd like to take an informal poll.

Location:          Dale City, VA
Campaign Age:      4 months.  Our last SF campaign was MegaTraveller &
lasted just                    under a year.
My Age:            44.92
Meeting Frequency: Once every 3 - 4 weeks
Group Size:        5.5 (one college player comes & goes)
Referees:          1
Health:            Ongoing, adding one new player in next month or two.
Rules Mix:         T4 99% w/KBv2.0 tasks
Biggest Challenge: All players and ref are adults with full-time lives.
Scheduling                    games is sometimes rough.  Typically, we'll
play if we get 4                    players...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:22:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Metrics, was Re: Gurps Traveller

>To bring this kicking and screaming back into Traveller;  Would the office
>of Calendar Compliance (or equivalent) attempt to bring all the
>Sylean/Imperial worlds to a standardized system of weights and measures?
>Human (and presumably other race's) Nature will bring forth a multitude of
>ways of measuring stuff without some reason or enforcement of a standard
>during the long night.

In my campaign, yes.  The Office of Calendar Compliance goes at stuff like
this with a vengeance (a word of warning:  I am running a campaign starting
in 1105).  The 3I is, above and beyond it all, a government based on trade.
 You can't just have people running around with different measurements when
you need to haul cargo from world A to B.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:46:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Harold:

Harold Said:

> it seemed that Mr. Gygax had begun development work on DJ while he was at
> TSR, and according to his departure agreement with that company, anything
he
> developed while there became TSR's property)

This is a commonly repeated rumor, and _absolutely_ untrue. I was on GDW's
board of directors, and as such read _every_written word connected with the
lawsuit. Trust me.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:24:37 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0 Campaign Physical Condition ?

At 05:39 AM 9/22/97 EST, Peter Newman wrote:
>Do the copies of the Milieu 0 Campaign you have seen all have some cover
>dammage ?
>
>Every copy that came in to the game shop I order games for had slight
>dammage to its corners. ...

The copy I received direct from IG had scuffing at the ends of the spine -
due to rubbing of the cover against the packing material, I'd guess... The
shiny finish on the book is very fragile and I don't think the book (in its
packing) was drop-kicked or anything to get this way.  This wear matches
EXACTLY the wear appearing on ALL of the copies (10 or so) in stock at my
two FLGSs...



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:53:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

  As for the problems of using a hunk of alloy in Paris as your mass
standard, I read an article recently that discussed this very problem.
Seems that folks would really like to redefine mass in some arbitrary way,
isolated from a physical standard in the same way, for example, the meter
is now so many wavelengths of light.  Problem is, it turns out to be
rather a harder problem than one might think.  One can certainly try and
define mass as a certain number of atoms of a certain isotope, but the
real problem comes in when you try and do that in the lab.  Seems there is
no reliable method of counting exactly how many atoms you have, at least
to a satisfactory degree of accuracy.  As I recall, there are a number of
groups working on the problems, using a number of different ideas, but
nobody has worked out the bugs yet.

  So, anyway, looks like we are stuck with our Paris hunk-o'stuff for a
bit longer.

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 97 23:19:18 -0600
From: Mark <bdmahan@earthlink.net>
Subject: PzKw Maus

Panzerkampfwagon =8CMaus=B9 Porsche 205
Super heavy tank

In June 1942, Porsche of Stuttgart were ordered by Hitler to start =
designing a superheavy tank, mounting a 12.8cm gun, and having =
maximum possible armour.  Trials were to commence in May 1943.  Many =
difficulties arose.  For example, the air-cooled motor did not =
materialize, and the V1 vehicle had to be fitted with a modified =
MB509 aircraft engine, the V2 with a MB517 diesel.  The Porsche =
longitudinal torsion bar suspension had to be abandoned as there was =
insufficient space for the number of stations needed to carry the =
continually growing weight.  Meanwhile, an order had been placed for =
a production series of 150, but in October 1943, this was cancelled.  =
The V1 prototype was tested with a simulated turret in December 1943, =
and with a turret and armament in June 1944, but the engine was =
destroyed in an accident and was not replaced until April 1945.  Both =
prototypes were blown up at Kummersdorf.

Manufacturer: Alkett  2 Prototypes, 9 under construction
Crew: 5                                      Engine: MB509 V1 or =
MB517 diesel V2
Weight: 188 tons                        Gearbox: 2 forward, 2 reverse
Length: 10.09 m                         Speed: 20 kph
Width: 3.67 m                             Range: 186 km
Height: 3.66 m                            Radio: FuG5

Armament: One 12.8cm KwK44 L/55     
One 7.5cm KwK44 L/36.5       
One 7.92mm MG34
Traverse:360=B0 (power)
Elevation: -7=B0 to +23=B0
Sight: ZF
Ammunition: 32 x 12.8cm
200 x 7.5cm

Armour (mm/angle)       Front                      Side               =
  Rear                    Top/Bottom
Turret:                      240/round               200/30=B0        =
   200/7=B0                  40/90=B0
Superstructure:         200/55=B0          180+100/0=B0            =
180/38=B0           80-40/90=B0
Hull:                          200/35=B0                  180/0=B0    =
        180/30=B0          100-40/90=B0
Gun mantlet:              240/Saukopfblende

From Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two 1978 USA


Name: PzKw Maus	Crew: 5	Wt: 188	
F Cap: 5022	F Con: 540	
Tr Mov: 29/6		Cbt Mov: 7/1		
HF: 60	HS: 56	HR: 54	TF: 48	TS: 40	TR: 40	T: 8	B: 20	Sus: 15

                      Rof         Dam            Pen             Blk  =
        Mag            Brst             Rng
MG-34            10            4            2-3-Nil          6        =
    50B              4               125

                                    Rld           Rng/IFR          =
Ammo              Dam                        Pen
12.8cm KwK44 L/55     2               400                AP           =
       28                 80/70/60/50
                                                      400             =
APCBC               28                 90/80/70/60
                                                      400             =
  HCS            C:10   B:20                 110c
                                                      400             =
    HE             C:14  B:28                   1c

                                    Rld           Rng/IFR          =
Ammo              Dam                        Pen
7.5cm KwK44 L/36.5      1              275               APC          =
      16                       8/4/2
                                                       275            =
 APCBC              16                     12/6/3
                                                       250            =
  AP40               16                     16/10/7
                                                   275/7000         =
HCS           C:6    B:12                   20c
                                                   275/7000           =
HE            C:6    B:12                  -3c
                                                   275/7000         =
CHEM         C:3    B:20                   Nil
                                                        50            =
 Cannister      C:6    B:12              4/3/3/-1


Weapons are an important factor in war, but not the decisive one: it =
is the man and not the materials that count. - Mao Tsetung

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:53:53 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump question...

In mail you write:

> I want to make sure I understand JUMP correctly.

> I start at Planet A.  In order to make a 'safe' jump, I move to 100
> diameters away from the planet.  I can move anywhere, so long as it
> is 100 diameters away, right?

Yep. Though Marc is proposing that your course can't come within 100
diameters of any body, or you'll pop out of jump there (after the
normal period of time).

> Also, I can jump 'closer', but the risk of failure is increased,
> correct?

Yep.

> Now, when I jump into the new system, 1 jump away, then where do I
> end up? 

Good question. And one *never* covered in the rules. <sigh>

> Do I randomly pick a distance and heading?

Not likely. That'd have you having a good chance of coming out *way*
too far from the planet.

> Is is the same coordinates in the next system as where I left?

Since co-ordinate systems are pretty arbitary, this is unlikely also.

It's been pretty much assumed that you can pick your exit point. But
how closely you can "call" it is unknown.

Also, it's unclear whether your exit point is "fixed" or relative to
the planet. I like "fixed", because that means that the variation in
jump duration *causes* a variance in exit point relative to the
destination. A planet moving in orbit at 30 km/sec will have move
108,000 km in one hour. So if your jump was off by an hour, your
position would be off by *at least* that much. 

There's also some argument about how your momentum is conserved. Some
say you come out with the same velocity relative to your destination as
you had relative to your starting point. I prefer real conservation,
which means that you exit with the same velocity and direction relative
to your starting point. Which means that you have to worry about
relative velocity of the stars, and orbital velocities of the planet
you left from and the one you started from. 

I like that because it means that you'd be better off running out in a
specific direction (to build up a velocity in that direction) before
jumping. You'd do that to minimize the velocity difference between you
and your destination.

This means that folks heading for a specific destination would *tend*
to head for a specific *part* of the 100 diameter limit. That makes
piracy a bit easier, and also makes it easier to guess about ship's
movements. 

Of course, if you are willing to waste some fuel, you can jump with the
"wrong" vector and correct it after jumping. So you can mislead folks
about where you are headed.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:41:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

In mail you write:

> Glenn Hoppe wrote:
>
>> The metric system was in use in the scientific community in the 70's.
>> Today the English system is *still* the official system in the US (and a
>> number of other countries that I can count on one hand). Things are no
>> different now then they were in the 70s.
>
>  Nope the "official" system is metric. Just that most 'mericans loudly
> objected to the change. So implementation has lagged.

Actually, the metric system has been legal in the US almost since it
was invented (Franklin talked Congress into passing a law legalizing
it). It's never been *mandatory*. 

Bacl in the 70s there was a push to make it mandatory. Didn't go over
very well. But we'll convert sooner or later. But it'll be painful when
it happens. Because the only really practical way is to effectively
"outlaw" the old system. It's been demonstrated again and again that
trying things like highway signs using both systems *doesn't* help
people learn metric. They'll keep using the old units as long as they
are available.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:27:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

In mail you write:

>> Provably correct software already exists. It's mostly restricted to
>> things like controlling nuclear plants and other "cost is no object, it
>> must be *safe*" type applications. 
>>  
>> There's generally no *point* in trying to prove the correctness of
>> software if you don't have a proven correct *processor* to run it on. A
>> few such exist, but they aren't used in mass market PCs. 
>
>
> Do you know the names of the companies that sell these?  Last time I looked 
> in earnest (1992) I could not find anyone who would claim that their system 
> was "provably correct" (at the time I was working for a guy who acted as one 
> of the advisors for British Standards in the area of high-reliability safety 
> and control systems).

Check back issues of RISKS-Digest (comp.risks). I know that they've
been mentioned. But I don't recall any names. And as I recall, they
tend to be RISC chips, and a few generations "behind" due to the extra
overhead.

I think that one of the outfits mentioned was British.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:47:40 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: Traveller Story:  Pysadian Jail

WARNING:  THIS POST HAS TRAVELLER ADVENTURE SPOILERS IN IT!!!!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------


I write a lot of little short stories for my group.  Sometimes I'll 
"novelize" an event that happened in our game, and sometimes I'll 
write a short "off camera" tale for the players to read in between 
games.

Most of the time, these stories are so specific to our game that I 
don't see outsiders getting much use out them.  It's not in context 
for those who don't know the intricacies of our game.

But, sometimes, I write one that others can relate to and enjoy.  
This is one of those.

It's a quickie, and I'll set you up.   We're playing the Traveller 
Adventure.  My characters are on Pysadi, and one of them has been 
placed in jail for kicking at one of the anolas.

He's been sentenced to one year.  The March Harrier and crew are 
in the starport.  Their ship's software has been deleted, and all of 
the equipment aboard the ship stolen--but that's another story.

The point is, the ship is stuck in the starport with no way to get 
off.  They are waiting for the insurance money to come to them from 
Oberlindes.  Two of the ship's crew, the Captain and one of the 
gunners, has traveled back to Aramis, trying to hook up aid from a 
certain Eneri Gillaan, who's supposed to be in Naval 
Intelligence--but that's another story too.

The others are on Pysadi waiting.  Because of the events that got Gyr 
placed in jail for a year, they are forbidden to leave the starport.  
The Pysadian officials want them off the planet as soon as possilble.

Unfortunately, as soon as possible is not coming that quickly, and 
the ship has been stranded there for 4 standard months.

We cut to Gyr, in the town jail in Itzeny for all that time now.  The 
anolas are with him, having become "attracted" to him--which is why 
he was trying to shoo them away in the first place.

This is an off camera story for my group.  We just played yesterday 
night.  We play again the Sunday after next.

I'm writing this to let Gyr's player know what he is thinking all 
this time.  Also, my players don't realize that there is a difference 
between standard time and local time.

This story is meant to open their eyes.

Also, if you are familiar with the Traveller Adventure, you'll know 
about the negative effect prolonged exposure to the anolas have on 
humans.  My players don't know about this yet, and I am hinting 
towards it, ever so slightly, in the end of the story.

They'll just think I was trying to be funny.

Also, last game session, they were wondering why, in four months, the 
Pysadians hadn't moved the prisoner to the bigger prison instellation 
in Sadi, the planet's captial.  

One of the players figured it out though.  It's because the anolas 
are interested in the prisioner.  I am secretly rolling behind the 
scenes to see if they stay interested, or will wander off at some 
point.

When thay wander off, I'll move Gyr to the prison facility in the 
city, and the players will have a tougher time of freeing him.

So, they realized last night that they are on borrowed time.  Sooner 
or later, my roll will come through, and I'll move him.  If they move 
to free him before this roll occurrs, they'll be in better shape to 
get him.  If they don't, they'll have the prison facility to break 
into instead of the three story church in Itzeny.

But, they've got to be able to get off planet after the breakout.  
So, its pins and needles for them.

See, I didn't tell them that they were right last night...about the 
anolas.  I let them think what they want, right or wrong.  But, I am 
kinda confirming their thoughts in this story.

It's my suttle way of telling them that they are right.

Without further ado, he's "Pysadian Jail".

Kenneth.
================================================================



                                         Pysadian Jail

                                      by Kenneth D. Bearden



Gyr looked up from his Pysadian readings one day (he's read just about
all of  them), and said to himself, "Great Mother!  It's been over
four months since I've heard from anyone on the ship."

But, he doesn't fret long, because he knows that his friend, Frank,
would not leave him.  They must be having trouble getting the supplies
they need to get the ship moving.  Besides, Daeus and Gvoudzon had let
him know that Councelor Momi had restricted their access to Pysadi to
all but the starport.

They are all probably holed up there, just as much a prisoner as he
was.  Except, of course, their cell was a bit bigger than his--they've
got the whole starport to run around in.

Then, a thought occurred to Gyr.  What if something has happened to
Frank and the Captain on Aramis?  What if Eneri wasn't too happy about
them coming to see him?

If something had happened, they could be trying to locate another
engineer.  They couldn't take off without one...

Nooo, Gyr thought.  He must push that thought out of his mind.  
Nothing had happened to his best friend.  The others might leave him,
but Frank would never.

Gyr decided that the was just going to have to sit here and bide his
time.  Frank would come for him soon enough.  They had probably worked
somthing out with Eneri, got a brick of cash, and were waiting on a
shit load of weapons before they came to break him out.

If he stayed right here, they'd have a damn good shot at it.  Hell,
even if they didn't have any weapons, they could probably break him
out.  The Pysadians rarely carried weapons anyway.

He had wondered why they hadn't moved him yet.  At first, he thought
it was because Councilor Momi didn't want him moved with the crew
still on planet.  Gyr had speculated that Momi didn't want to take the
risk and he was probably waiting for the Harrier to lift off.

Gyr had heard from the guards that the prison in Sadi was a pretty
tight facility, even by TL 4 standards.  He wished the crew would
hurry up and do something while the picking was good.  Breaking him
out of this building would be like a hot knife cutting through butter.
 But, if they waited until he was transfered to Sadi, it sounds like
it would be a whole lot harder.

He thought that if they started to move him, and he hadn't heard from
the crew, then he would try a break on his own.  It was finally spring
now, and he didn't have to contend with the freezing temperatures. 
He'd try to make it to the starport and see what's up. 
 Maybe he could get Bill to help him.

But, then, another thought hit him.  They were pretty up on these
anolas here.  The little critters came when they wanted.  They left 
when they wanted, and, basically, they just about did anything they 
wanted to.

The things had taken somewhat of a liking to Gyr.  It was not as much 
or as loving as it was towards Glynn, but the Pysadians definitely 
caught on to it.

Gyr started to think.  This must be why they hadn't  moved him 
yet. Yes, it was now clear from the things he had read from the 
Pysadian religious writings.  He was sure that the reason he hadn't 
been moved was because of the anolas.

As long as they were around him, he would stay right here.  If they
lost interest in him, he would surely be moved to the facility in
Sadi.

Somthing scuffed the outside of Gyr's door right then.  It was one of
the guards  taking the wax out of the key hole.  Then the metal 
clinck made by the key turning the lock snapped, and Gori, one of the 
6 Salvors here in Itzeny, stepped in with Gyr's mid-morning snack.

They fed him very well here.

"Ahhh.  Good morning Mr. Gyr!"

"Yes, good morning Mr. Gori.  Blessed be Mother Pysadi!"

"Ahhh, yes, Mr. Gyr, blessed be indeed."  Gori sat Sandy's brunch down
on one of the locker cabinets in the room.  It was delicious looking,
as usual, and today it was what Gyr called "trake cocktail" with
babaloa juice.  Sandy had tried the sky melon and found it somewhat
strong.  He told Gori about it, and sure enough, his "trake cocktail"
was now missing the sky melon pieces that it used to be made with.

"Gori, I am so glad that I have had an opportunity to read these
scriptures."  Gyr said, holding up his copy of the Pysadian Petra,
their holy book.

"I might say, if I may, Mr. Gyr,"  Gori responded, "that indeed you
are blessed."  Motioning to the anolas picking at Gyr's food (which
Gyr had learned to let them do and eat after them), he continued, "The
children of Pysadi are never wrong in discovering a good heart."

"I cannot wait,"  Sandy took the opportunity to probe, try and find
out information (he did this periodically), "until the Great Mother
smiles down on me, opens the gates, and let's me wonder at the lands
of holy Pysadi.  I cannot wait for the next 8 months to pass."

Gori smiled, but he realized his friend--brother if you will, did not
understand.  "Mr. Gyr.  You are an offworlder.  You have been
sentenced to one year."

"Yes, I understand!"  Gyr's eyebrows arched up.  "And, it is the best
experience of my life.  Sometimes we offworlders do not stop in our
frantic lives to acknowledge the really important things.  If
I had not be sentenced, surely my eyes would not have been opened!"

Gori's head shook.  "Yes.  Dis is true, Mr. Gyr.  You are truly 
blessed, and Pysadi's children have shown you the way."

Gyr agreed.  "Had it not been for the sacred children--you are right. 
 I believe that it was their plan.  They showed me, and blessed 
Glynn, but I refused to see.  So, they made it so I would be forced to
see, and I will be forever in their debt."

"As are we all, Mr. Gyr.  But, I fear you do not understand what I
have said."

Gyr feigned over curiosity--he couldn't wait to get off this fucking
planet.  He'd had enough of this 'blessed be' shit. 
"Please...explain, brother."

"Yes, I will."  Gori held up one stiff finger in the air as he spoke. 
 "Living, as you did in space, you are used to the Imperial standard
time--the standard hour, the standard day, the standard week, no?"

Oh shit.  Gyr knew where this was going.  He was kicking himself for
not realizing it four months ago.  "This is true, brother Gori."

"...and, the standard year, Mr. Gyr,"  Gori finished.  "But, you are
know a child of Pysadi.  You are sentenced to serve out one of Mother
Pysadi's years."

Gyr mustered all of the happy emotion he could find.  There was none
left, not even in his big toe.  "As it should be, Gori.  All the
better for me."

"Ahh, Dis is so."  Gori bowed, with his fingers locked together,
"Blessed be Mother Pysadi, Mr. Gyr."

Gyr bowed in return, "Yes, Mr. Gori, blessed be."

The door closed behind Gori, and Gyr waited for the metallic clink of
the key and the replacing of the wax.  He looked over at his food,
which the anolas had just about devoured.  With the rest of it, they
were throwing at the far wall, making colorful splatters, and they
watched curiously as the fruit stuck for a moment, then plopped to the
floor.

It was all safe, and Gyr moved to one of the beds across the room.  He
slid it out to look at the scratches he had made on the wall.  Then he
dug underneath the mattress for the pice of cobble stone that he had
unearthed from the floor under one of the locker cabinets.  Taking the
sharpened stone, he scribbled through the sticks he'd been drawing on
the wall to keep track of time, effectively making them unreadable.  

Frustrated, he used the wall to do some quick calculations.  
Damn.  He wished he would of thought of this before.

The Pysadian year is 2.69 standard years long.  He had served four
standard months, alright, but it wasn't near one third of his one year
sentence.  

The Pysadian year is just under 33 standard months long!

He had only served less than 10% of his sentence, and he had 29 
months to go!

Shit!  He sat back on the bed he had pulled out and held his face in
his hands.  He rubbed his temples because he just noticed that he had
a headache.

As a matter of fact, he was getting a lot of headaches lately.  He
sure wished to hell that the crew would get their act together and get
their asses down here to rescue him.

Gyr looked up at the wall as another piece of fruit zoomed by his head
and stuck to the wall.

He didn't know how much longer he was going to be able to take this. 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1865
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 23 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1866



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Traveller Story:  Pysadian Jail
Re: Gurps Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1861
Re: Metrics
Re: New To Traveller 
Re: Firearms in Vacuum
SSDS Question
Pysadi Jail
Re: Mundane Encounters
Re: Pirates
Insurance
Re: SSDS Question
Re: Questions about Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:26:17 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: Traveller Story:  Pysadian Jail

WARNING:  THIS POST HAS TRAVELLER ADVENTURE SPOILERS IN IT!!!!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------


I write a lot of little short stories for my group.  Sometimes I'll 
"novelize" an event that happened in our game, and sometimes I'll 
write a short "off camera" tale for the players to read in between 
games.

Most of the time, these stories are so specific to our game that I 
don't see outsiders getting much use out them.  It's not in context 
for those who don't know the intricacies of our game.

But, sometimes, I write one that others can relate to and enjoy.  
This is one of those.

It's a quickie, and I'll set you up.   We're playing the Traveller 
Adventure.  My characters are on Pysadi, and one of them has been 
placed in jail for kicking at one of the anolas.

He's been sentenced to one year.  The March Harrier and crew are 
in the starport.  Their ship's software has been deleted, and all of 
the equipment aboard the ship stolen--but that's another story.

The point is, the ship is stuck in the starport with no way to get 
off.  They are waiting for the insurance money to come to them from 
Oberlindes.  Two of the ship's crew, the Captain and one of the 
gunners, has traveled back to Aramis, trying to hook up aid from a 
certain Eneri Gillaan, who's supposed to be in Naval 
Intelligence--but that's another story too.

The others are on Pysadi waiting.  Because of the events that got Gyr 
placed in jail for a year, they are forbidden to leave the starport.  
The Pysadian officials want them off the planet as soon as possilble.

Unfortunately, as soon as possible is not coming that quickly, and 
the ship has been stranded there for 4 standard months.

We cut to Gyr, in the town jail in Itzeny for all that time now.  The 
anolas are with him, having become "attracted" to him--which is why 
he was trying to shoo them away in the first place.

This is an off camera story for my group.  We just played yesterday 
night.  We play again the Sunday after next.

I'm writing this to let Gyr's player know what he is thinking all 
this time.  Also, my players don't realize that there is a difference 
between standard time and local time.

This story is meant to open their eyes.

Also, if you are familiar with the Traveller Adventure, you'll know 
about the negative effect prolonged exposure to the anolas have on 
humans.  My players don't know about this yet, and I am hinting 
towards it, ever so slightly, in the end of the story.

They'll just think I was trying to be funny.

Also, last game session, they were wondering why, in four months, the 
Pysadians hadn't moved the prisoner to the bigger prison instellation 
in Sadi, the planet's captial.  

One of the players figured it out though.  It's because the anolas 
are interested in the prisioner.  I am secretly rolling behind the 
scenes to see if they stay interested, or will wander off at some 
point.

When thay wander off, I'll move Gyr to the prison facility in the 
city, and the players will have a tougher time of freeing him.

So, they realized last night that they are on borrowed time.  Sooner 
or later, my roll will come through, and I'll move him.  If they move 
to free him before this roll occurrs, they'll be in better shape to 
get him.  If they don't, they'll have the prison facility to break 
into instead of the three story church in Itzeny.

But, they've got to be able to get off planet after the breakout.  
So, its pins and needles for them.

See, I didn't tell them that they were right last night...about the 
anolas.  I let them think what they want, right or wrong.  But, I am 
kinda confirming their thoughts in this story.

It's my suttle way of telling them that they are right.

Without further ado, he's "Pysadian Jail".

Kenneth.
================================================================



                                         Pysadian Jail

                                      by Kenneth D. Bearden



Gyr looked up from his Pysadian readings one day (he's read just about
all of  them), and said to himself, "Great Mother!  It's been over
four months since I've heard from anyone on the ship."

But, he doesn't fret long, because he knows that his friend, Frank,
would not leave him.  They must be having trouble getting the supplies
they need to get the ship moving.  Besides, Daeus and Gvoudzon had let
him know that Councelor Momi had restricted their access to Pysadi to
all but the starport.

They are all probably holed up there, just as much a prisoner as he
was.  Except, of course, their cell was a bit bigger than his--they've
got the whole starport to run around in.

Then, a thought occurred to Gyr.  What if something has happened to
Frank and the Captain on Aramis?  What if Eneri wasn't too happy about
them coming to see him?

If something had happened, they could be trying to locate another
engineer.  They couldn't take off without one...

Nooo, Gyr thought.  He must push that thought out of his mind.  
Nothing had happened to his best friend.  The others might leave him,
but Frank would never.

Gyr decided that the was just going to have to sit here and bide his
time.  Frank would come for him soon enough.  They had probably worked
somthing out with Eneri, got a brick of cash, and were waiting on a
shit load of weapons before they came to break him out.

If he stayed right here, they'd have a damn good shot at it.  Hell,
even if they didn't have any weapons, they could probably break him
out.  The Pysadians rarely carried weapons anyway.

He had wondered why they hadn't moved him yet.  At first, he thought
it was because Councilor Momi didn't want him moved with the crew
still on planet.  Gyr had speculated that Momi didn't want to take the
risk and he was probably waiting for the Harrier to lift off.

Gyr had heard from the guards that the prison in Sadi was a pretty
tight facility, even by TL 4 standards.  He wished the crew would
hurry up and do something while the picking was good.  Breaking him
out of this building would be like a hot knife cutting through butter.
 But, if they waited until he was transfered to Sadi, it sounds like
it would be a whole lot harder.

He thought that if they started to move him, and he hadn't heard from
the crew, then he would try a break on his own.  It was finally spring
now, and he didn't have to contend with the freezing temperatures. 
He'd try to make it to the starport and see what's up. 
 Maybe he could get Bill to help him.

But, then, another thought hit him.  They were pretty up on these
anolas here.  The little critters came when they wanted.  They left 
when they wanted, and, basically, they just about did anything they 
wanted to.

The things had taken somewhat of a liking to Gyr.  It was not as much 
or as loving as it was towards Glynn, but the Pysadians definitely 
caught on to it.

Gyr started to think.  This must be why they hadn't  moved him 
yet. Yes, it was now clear from the things he had read from the 
Pysadian religious writings.  He was sure that the reason he hadn't 
been moved was because of the anolas.

As long as they were around him, he would stay right here.  If they
lost interest in him, he would surely be moved to the facility in
Sadi.

Somthing scuffed the outside of Gyr's door right then.  It was one of
the guards  taking the wax out of the key hole.  Then the metal 
clinck made by the key turning the lock snapped, and Gori, one of the 
6 Salvors here in Itzeny, stepped in with Gyr's mid-morning snack.

They fed him very well here.

"Ahhh.  Good morning Mr. Gyr!"

"Yes, good morning Mr. Gori.  Blessed be Mother Pysadi!"

"Ahhh, yes, Mr. Gyr, blessed be indeed."  Gori sat Sandy's brunch down
on one of the locker cabinets in the room.  It was delicious looking,
as usual, and today it was what Gyr called "trake cocktail" with
babaloa juice.  Sandy had tried the sky melon and found it somewhat
strong.  He told Gori about it, and sure enough, his "trake cocktail"
was now missing the sky melon pieces that it used to be made with.

"Gori, I am so glad that I have had an opportunity to read these
scriptures."  Gyr said, holding up his copy of the Pysadian Petra,
their holy book.

"I might say, if I may, Mr. Gyr,"  Gori responded, "that indeed you
are blessed."  Motioning to the anolas picking at Gyr's food (which
Gyr had learned to let them do and eat after them), he continued, "The
children of Pysadi are never wrong in discovering a good heart."

"I cannot wait,"  Sandy took the opportunity to probe, try and find
out information (he did this periodically), "until the Great Mother
smiles down on me, opens the gates, and let's me wonder at the lands
of holy Pysadi.  I cannot wait for the next 8 months to pass."

Gori smiled, but he realized his friend--brother if you will, did not
understand.  "Mr. Gyr.  You are an offworlder.  You have been
sentenced to one year."

"Yes, I understand!"  Gyr's eyebrows arched up.  "And, it is the best
experience of my life.  Sometimes we offworlders do not stop in our
frantic lives to acknowledge the really important things.  If
I had not be sentenced, surely my eyes would not have been opened!"

Gori's head shook.  "Yes.  Dis is true, Mr. Gyr.  You are truly 
blessed, and Pysadi's children have shown you the way."

Gyr agreed.  "Had it not been for the sacred children--you are right. 
 I believe that it was their plan.  They showed me, and blessed 
Glynn, but I refused to see.  So, they made it so I would be forced to
see, and I will be forever in their debt."

"As are we all, Mr. Gyr.  But, I fear you do not understand what I
have said."

Gyr feigned over curiosity--he couldn't wait to get off this fucking
planet.  He'd had enough of this 'blessed be' shit. 
"Please...explain, brother."

"Yes, I will."  Gori held up one stiff finger in the air as he spoke. 
 "Living, as you did in space, you are used to the Imperial standard
time--the standard hour, the standard day, the standard week, no?"

Oh shit.  Gyr knew where this was going.  He was kicking himself for
not realizing it four months ago.  "This is true, brother Gori."

"...and, the standard year, Mr. Gyr,"  Gori finished.  "But, you are
know a child of Pysadi.  You are sentenced to serve out one of Mother
Pysadi's years."

Gyr mustered all of the happy emotion he could find.  There was none
left, not even in his big toe.  "As it should be, Gori.  All the
better for me."

"Ahh, Dis is so."  Gori bowed, with his fingers locked together,
"Blessed be Mother Pysadi, Mr. Gyr."

Gyr bowed in return, "Yes, Mr. Gori, blessed be."

The door closed behind Gori, and Gyr waited for the metallic clink of
the key and the replacing of the wax.  He looked over at his food,
which the anolas had just about devoured.  With the rest of it, they
were throwing at the far wall, making colorful splatters, and they
watched curiously as the fruit stuck for a moment, then plopped to the
floor.

It was all safe, and Gyr moved to one of the beds across the room.  He
slid it out to look at the scratches he had made on the wall.  Then he
dug underneath the mattress for the pice of cobble stone that he had
unearthed from the floor under one of the locker cabinets.  Taking the
sharpened stone, he scribbled through the sticks he'd been drawing on
the wall to keep track of time, effectively making them unreadable.  

Frustrated, he used the wall to do some quick calculations.  
Damn.  He wished he would of thought of this before.

The Pysadian year is 2.69 standard years long.  He had served four
standard months, alright, but it wasn't near one third of his one year
sentence.  

The Pysadian year is just under 33 standard months long!

He had only served less than 10% of his sentence, and he had 29 
months to go!

Shit!  He sat back on the bed he had pulled out and held his face in
his hands.  He rubbed his temples because he just noticed that he had
a headache.

As a matter of fact, he was getting a lot of headaches lately.  He
sure wished to hell that the crew would get their act together and get
their asses down here to rescue him.

Gyr looked up at the wall as another piece of fruit zoomed by his head
and stuck to the wall.

He didn't know how much longer he was going to be able to take this. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:02:34 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Gurps Traveller

> Nope the "official" system is metric. Just that most 'mericans loudly
>objected to the change. So implementation has lagged.
The amricans are converting to the metric system - inch by inch ;)


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:55:40 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1861

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:44:53 -0400, you wrote:

>On 1997-09-20 14:58, Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@Concentric.net> wrote the 
>following:
>
>>> The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game why
>>> would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use system of
>>> weights and measures?
>>
>>It was written in the mid to late 70's.
>
>So?
>
>The metric system was in use in the scientific community in the 70's. 
>Today the English system is *still* the official system in the US (and a 
>number of other countries that I can count on one hand). Things are no 
>different now then they were in the 70s.
>
>Even in the 70s Metric was a scientific method of measurement, and 
>Traveller was a Science Fiction game so it only makes sense that 
>Traveller use metric.

Interestingly enough, as someone who was brought up under the old Imperial
system (and Pounds/Shillings/Pence ... 1 = 20 = 240, rather than Dollars),
graduating from High School in 1972, we had rather a schizo education -- until
almost the end of Primary School we learnt all sums in Pounds/Shillings/Pence,
even tho we changed to Decimal currency in 1966! Similarly, tho for *Science* at
High School we used the MKS system, in *Maths* we used Imperial measures more
often than not (in fact, IIRC, pretty much all the time when "real world"
problems were being looked at).

Even better, as a Teacher (History & English) at High School (Years 7-12) level,
I've noted that, while children don't have a clue about the old Sterling
currency, they *do* seem to be intimately familiar with some aspects of the old
Imperial system of measurement. Its literally a case of being able to ask a kid
what their height is and all you can get is Feet/Inches ... they simply do not
know what it is in meters/centimeters unless they work it out (and many don't
know the conversion factors!) ... and this is regardless of academic ability!

For example, I've noted over the last 20 years since I started teaching that
virtually none of my pupils actually writes about their height or weight (or the
height or weight of others) in anything other than Feet/Inches and Stone/Pounds!
This is despite the fact that the metric system has been "official" for about
the same period. Sure, they think in kilometers for distance (but most still
understand, and occasionally use, miles) and in kilograms for weights other than
their own.

The only explanation I can think of is that their *parents* are mostly of a
generation to have been brought up in the Imperial system, and they still think
of things in that way for *personal* measurement.

Personally, I never saw any problem with having a dual system - MKS for the
scientific and engineering types who really wanted it; Imperial for the rest of
us. After all, the conversion factors were known and (with hindsight) working it
into computer programs would not have been a real problem.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:14:01 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Metrics

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:01:22 -0400, you wrote:

>From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
>Subject: Metrics, was Re: Gurps Traveller

>To bring this kicking and screaming back into Traveller;  Would the office
>of Calendar Compliance (or equivalent) attempt to bring all the
>Sylean/Imperial worlds to a standardized system of weights and measures?
>Human (and presumably other race's) Nature will bring forth a multitude of
>ways of measuring stuff without some reason or enforcement of a standard
>during the long night.
>
>I can see arriving at a newly recontacted planet with their requested "300
>tonnes" of electronics parts only to find out that *their* 300 tonnes is
>twice what *standard* 300 tons is.

And, of course, there's the "problem" of the extra-Imperial States. The Zhos,
Aslan, Hivers, K'kree, Julian Protectorate and even the Solomani are unlikely to
use 3I measurements.

I did an article on it in "Dark Star #1" ... looking at the problem of
"Equipment Incompatibility" (and, amongst other things, why Virus simply
wouldn't have worked very well outside the Imperium). Anyone interested, I can
provide copies of DS#1 in .pdf format for modest cost and, though strictly
speaking "out of print" (it's only photocopied from a master), I could even run
off extra copies if there was enough demand.

Contact me for details (and, yes, there will now likely be a DS#3 ... and more
thereafter, intermittently ... but only for GURPS Traveller).

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 03:08:02 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: New To Traveller 

Douglas E. Berry wrote

> Dom Mooney wrote:
> 
> >Zhodani agents report that an anonymous source stated 
> >
> >>> XXXXXCENSOREDXXXXX was reported to have written on or about the 22nd
> August:
> 
> I missed this!! Those darn Templars....
> 
> >>   As of 1997, there are basically seven groups on TML:
> 
> >3) MegaTravellers: People who used to use MT to one degree or another,
> >and finding they dislike MMT, have started advocating a MT revival.
> >Like modern day disco fans, they seem to have forgotten the worst of
> >MT's abuses and only remember what's good about it.
> 
> There was something bad about Mega Errata?

I always thought that Mega Traveller had the most errata because that
was the time when the editors were trying hardest to fix all the
errors.  Unlike certain versions of certain games where the publisher
does not print or list the errata or even trys to pretend that something
is not an error "No that's not a bug, that is a feature - of course all
the law levels are the same as the government types in First Survey."
> 
> >6) MMT Masocists: They love MMT.  They hate MMT.  They hate IG, but sign
> >up in advance to buy more of their products, sight unseen and then
> >complain bitterly about them when they arrive.  They hang around waiting
> >for MM to finish "T4.1" and send long letters to the list telling him
> >how he can improve it by adopting *their* rules.
> >
> >7) Bohemians: The more rules published the better

Not the more rules published the better, rather the more background
information and adventure material published the better.

> >--they will just pick
> >and chose the ones they like anyway, and include them with the House
> >Rules Set (modified GURPS/MT/TNE/CT/AD&D/Gamma World/Rolemaster/2300 AD,
> >with a bit of Panzer Leader thrown in for flavor).  They also use their
> >own settings, with a few copyrighted Traveller words thrown in for
> >flavor.  To date, I can't figure out why they hang around in such a
> >hostile place.
> 
> Oohh.. I'm a solid type 6.5  It seems that the Bohemians tend to be the
> loudest advocates of what i call the "Settlers", thise Traveller fans how
> consider the 3I settinhjg to be Traveller's defining characteristic.

You mean there are Traveller fans who do _not_ consider the Third
Imperium setting to not only Travellers defining charecteristic, but its
best charecteristic (This in no way means that I am disparageing non
3rd  Imperium settings) ?
:
> >
> >Doomsdayers:
> 
> Hi, my name is Doug, and I'm a recovering Doomsdayer.

Hi, Doug !  Welcome to the program.

Coming soon - Role Players Anonymous

A twelve step program in which we admit that we are powerless over our
attraction to games and acknowledge a higher power (the referee) :)


> >But I would recommend waiting for T4.1 being released
> 
> Agreed, from everything we've seen, T4.1 is going to be what we hoped for
> all along, assuming IG doesn't let a crew of gibbons on PCP do the editing
> and printing again...

From your mouth to [insert appropriate deities name here] ears.

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:01:45 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

>I always wondered: How much will this be offset by the loss of the lift that
>air provides? How much of a lifting body is your average bullet (bearing in
>mind that almost anything can be a lifting body if you shove it through the
>air fast enough)?
>
>Loren Wiseman
>     GDW Emeritus

Probably nothing at all as a radially symmetrical body moving along its
axis produces no lift and even if it did have its nose offset from the line
of movement the spin would make the lift cancel (it would lift equally in
all angular directions which cancels out).


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:12:40 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: SSDS Question

SSDS Question for those in the know.

My players have a standard subsidized merchant with no armor.  They 
want to put armor on it.

Can they just pull into a graving dock and have armor put on the 
ship?

Can I just do the two or three calculations for cost in the SSDS 
rules to figure out how much to charge them?

Are there any limits to putting armor on? 

 I noticed that armor is not handled like it was in High Guard where 
your armor factor cannot be larget than the ship's TL.  And, I 
noticed that some ships have some incredibly high armor values--like 
60.  It seems these ships will keep on coming no matter what you 
throw at them.

Do I have to figure anything else in when I'm retrofitting a ship 
with armor?  Hulls mass?  Are there any limits?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:35:30 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Pysadi Jail

Hah! Poor bugger. That'll teach him.

When we played the Traveller Adventure, I came in just after we left
Pysadi, so I missed this bit. The rest was pretty good, though.

Isn't it amazing how people are still playing the old scenarios even now -
surely that, if nothing else, is a sign of quality.

Good story, too.

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:50:15 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Mundane Encounters

> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:45:25 +0100
> From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
> Subject: Encounters
> 
> Here's the alternative 'Mundane Encounter Generator', for those times
when
> the characters meet someone really quite ordinary. Roll 2D:

This definitley belongs on the "Traveller: The Silly Era" web page ;)

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:52:35 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Pirates

Kevin L. Kitchens writes:
>Another tactic for the pirates, and one I think that would be more 
>practical, would be to set up a little closer to a trade route, and send 
>out a distress signal, thus luring their prey in closer.
>
>THEN AMBUSH!  Get the goods and run.

But that won't work if there are patrol ships in the vincinity, because it
would be them that went to help.
 
Erwin Fritz writes:
>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>When you've got 20 patrol ships and 200 places to patrol, then pirates may
>>have a chance. When you have 200 patrol ships and 20 places to patrol they
>>don't.
> 
>I must disagree. You're right in saying that Rhylanor _can_ easily afford 
>to put a gazillion patrol ships in adjacent systems to reduce piracy.
>
>Why would they? 

For the same reason Coast Guard ships go out to help ships in distress. The
ship is there anyway, so you may as well get some use out of it.

>Governments aren't relied upon to support businesses.

Surely one of the prime functions of a government is to protect its citizens.
Protecting their trade is not far behind.

>So Rhylanor wouldn't bother sending ships to adjacent systems. 

Propably not, but that's because they pay 30% of their naval budget to the
Imperium, who will patrol the systems instead. Even so, Rhylanor will have
patrol ships of their own just in case the Imperial ships are sent elsewhere
in a crisis. We know that Rhylanor spends a lot on its system defense forces.
If as little as 1/1000th of it is spent on patrol ships, Rhylanor will have
several 100 of them. They have to pay for them no matter what, so why not
protect their trade? Anything else would be dumb.

>That's part of the reason it's so tough being a small freighter. You must 
>cough up cash you don't have to arm your ship. Then, to cover those costs, 
>you must buy speculative cargo, since freight doesn't pay well (because 
>those pesky large shipping companies keep the freight rate down). 

If you have a bank loan, you were able to persuade a very sceptical bank
manager that you would be able to keep up payments for the next 40 years.
If your business plan includes running risks, then the financing plan
would include armaments.

If you don't have a bank loan, you can undercut any ship that does (until
and unless you have a major breakdown, in which case you go bankrupt).

Douglas writes:

>I've played a Corsair, and until I picked the wrong fight, I was pretty
>successful. 

All that says is that your Referee believed that piracy was a viable
career. It dosen't prove that he was right.

Some of the points you make are quite good, but they are all moot when the
authorities have as many ships as they do and as few places to guard as 
they do.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:54:03 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Insurance

My characters own a yacht, which they like to use for speculative
cargo and just general adventuring. They are about to face a situation
where their yacht could be destroyed (while they're not on it).

It occurred to me that their insurance would cover the cost. THEN it
occurred to me that, not only haven't they obtained any insurance,
but I don't know how that works in Traveller.

So, how do you treat insurance? I'm interested in details about
ship insurance, especially costs and coverage, as well as info about
cargo and passenger insurance.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:51:27 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS Question

Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> 
> SSDS Question for those in the know.
> 
> My players have a standard subsidized merchant with no armor.  They
> want to put armor on it.
> 
> Can they just pull into a graving dock and have armor put on the
> ship?
> 

Well, I'm not familiar with SSDS, but I'll throw in my two bits 
anyway.

In My Universe (standard disclaimer) armor is not an add-on to the
hull. It IS the hull. Since there are so many things built in to the
hull material, like pipes, sensor arrays, conduits and even windows
(on some ships, like the Far Trader), it is impractical to simply
nail on a few more degrees of armor.

To retrofit armor to a ship is extremely expensive, since the shipyard
must remove the entire exterior hull and then install a new one.
I'd rule that it would take double or triple the hull price, plus
months (depending upon ship size) for installation.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:25:02 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

David P. Summers writes:
>Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:38:30 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>2) Hiding from patrol ships at the 100 diameter limit is impossible.
>
>You don't "hide" that way.  You pose as a normal unassuming ship
>and then hit quickly and jump out.

Good point. I hadn't considered that. But it won't be enough. If piracy is
a concern, merchant ships will be assigned arrival and departure slots that
will keep them far enough from each other for a patrol ship to intercept 
anyone who deviated from his assigned slot.

>>3) A single high-population world can produce enough patrol ships to
>>   place one at the jump limit of every world in a sector. Certainly
>>   piracy in any system with a reasonable population and TL is
>>   impossible, but piracy in remote systems are almost as difficult.
> 
>Well, you actually need enough ships to cover the entire sphere of
>the 100 diam limit. 

Which would be about 12 ships if you really wanted to cover the entire
sphere. But there would be no need for that. Just an arrival area and
a departure area.

>Then you need to do that at every planet that has traffic (population, 
>mining, refueling, etc.).  I would say that Regina can do this easily.  
>A small pop world might, for example, only have one or two ships.  

Oh sure. There are plenty of worlds in the Traveller Universe that can't
afford even one ship. But there are a number of worlds that can afford
hundreds of ships to take up the slack.

>(Especially if you want to take ships and group them into fleets for 
>military purposes).

Oh, so far I have only calculated with about 1/1000th of the naval budget
going to piracy suppression. If you assume that the rest of the fleet 
will protect the big worlds, you can use all those patrol ships to cover
the worlds without ships of their own.
 
SD Mooney writes:
>In mail Hans Rancke-Madsen write:
> 
>>Stationing a patrol ship (or a dozen) near a Gas Giant is not much of a
>>problem. Though why anyone should do that when no merchant would bother
>>to refuel at one if he had any choice is a question in itself.
> 
>Interesting point - my players are currently playing Twilights Peak, and
>are making a killing on the Empress Nicholle (a type A2 Far trader with 61
>dt cargo for those of you not familiar with this CT and  MT classic!) ,
>just dealing in freight. And they have an additional 250 kCr loan covering
>expenses to pay off in 12 months...
> 
>but for some reason they nearly always refuel at the gas giant to save
>expense. I may hit them with a late delivery penalty soon to encourage use
>of mainworld refueling.

Perhaps you should start having other free traders that don't refuel at
Gas Giants undercut them. If they can make a profit even with the loss of
time from wilderness refuelling then someone that dosen't can make a
profit with lesser charges.
 
>I think that the average merchant captain with a purification plant may
>look at the expense of fuel at a starport as unnecessary.

Well, he would buy unrefined fuel and save a bundle. But it's a feedback
loop, really. Most starports won't be able to sell refined fuel at Cr500/T,
because that means it is cheaper for a freighter to carry a fuel
purification plant and lose the revenue for the space the plant takes
up. So refined fuel _won't_ cost Cr500/T. I did some calculations a
while back and found that if refined fuel costs more than Cr290/T then
a freighter is better off with a fuel purifier (This assumes the freighter
can pick up and deliver freight equal to 90% of his cargo space on each 
and every jump). The figures I used had several minor flaws and I haven't
redone them yet, so I won't vouch for it, but IMO you won't go far
wrong if you let your starports sell refined fuel at Cr250-300/T. Btw.
if the purifier runs full time and you can sell all that you refine, the
cost of refining fuel can be as low as Cr5/T. So everything more than
Cr105/T could be pure profit...
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1866
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 23 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1867



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: stupid flames
Re: Piper (was: Live Campaigns)
Re: stupid flames
Lunion/Spinward Marches...
3D Chart of planets?
extra armour
Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)
Silly rules
Re: Mercenary Administrivia, Nukes and Imperial Interest Rates
Silly Era?
Re: Pirates
CJ Cherryh - Finity's End
H. Beam Piper
Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)
THUDDD - whatzup?
Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)
Re: Firearms in Vacuum
Re: Milieu 0 Campaign Physical Condition ?
Risks of dual measurement system
Flywheel Energy Storage Systems aka accumulators
re:Traveller Story:  Pysadian Jail
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Pirates

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 10:45:05 -0400
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Re: stupid flames

Following is the latest salvo (and previous post) between K.L. Kitchens 
and Kenneth Bearden.

Is it just me who finds both parties here acting like asses?

I've noticed that K.L. got offended when someone 'took the lord's name in 
vain', ut not everyone shares your religious views.  They ought to be 
respected, certainly, but take it to email if you have a problem.

Kenneth, on the other hand, has seemed unreasonably agressive on his 
part.  Is someone touching a nerve here?  Either way, you're behaving 
like a two-year old.  Please take it off the list.

Any responses form either party will be read at ross@ican.net, in order 
to minimize further list abuse.

Thanks in advance.

>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:18:24 +0000
>From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
>Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff
>
>Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:
>
>> See.  I told you that you wouldn't apologize.
>
>Well, double-bo-bo on me.
>
>Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 11:49:00 EDT
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@ansyspo.ansys.com>
Subject: Re: Piper (was: Live Campaigns)

Hi All,

Have you read the modified Lord Kalvan short story contained in Federation? 
It makes a great background for a traveller adventure.

Bye,

Glenn
______________________________________________________
Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (412) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (412) 514-3118
______________________________________________________


 ----------
>True enough. But they are just sections of the novel. They did the same
>sort of thing with some of the sections in "Great King's War".
>
>--
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:41:25 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: stupid flames

Nothing like someone showing up to the party late.

This has all been resolved.

On 23 Sep 97 at 10:45, Ross Coburn wrote:

> Following is the latest salvo (and previous post) between K.L. Kitchens
> and Kenneth Bearden.
> 
> Is it just me who finds both parties here acting like asses?
> 
> I've noticed that K.L. got offended when someone 'took the lord's name in
> vain', ut not everyone shares your religious views.  They ought to be
> respected, certainly, but take it to email if you have a problem.
> 
> Kenneth, on the other hand, has seemed unreasonably agressive on his part.
>  Is someone touching a nerve here?  Either way, you're behaving like a
> two-year old.  Please take it off the list.
> 
> Any responses form either party will be read at ross@ican.net, in order to
> minimize further list abuse.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:18:24 +0000
> >From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
> >Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff
> >
> >Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:
> >
> >> See.  I told you that you wouldn't apologize.
> >
> >Well, double-bo-bo on me.
> >
> >Kenneth.
> 


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:24:01 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Lunion/Spinward Marches...

	If anybody has any background information on Lunion, or who knows
where it can be found, can they please let me know?

	Thanx...

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:25:12 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: 3D Chart of planets?

One site had a 3D map of a star sector...How can I do this with my planet coords using 
Excel or some other graphing tool?

I have X, Y, and Z.  I want a datapoint at each coordinate with a datalabel of the planet 
name.

Thoughts?
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:34:23 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: extra armour

Kenneth Bearden wrote:
> 
> SSDS Question for those in the know.
> 
> My players have a standard subsidized merchant with no armor.  They
> want to put armor on it.
> 
> Can they just pull into a graving dock and have armor put on the ship?

Easy! Applique Armour. Weld plates on the outside. Only problem is weight
and the fact that it will never be as good as original armour (which has the
properly designed interior structure supporting it) and doesn't have gaps
(well, large ones anyway)

I would say, as an off the cuff rule, applique costs double, takes up 50%
greater volume (from required internal braces) and has no effect if a roll
of 2D6 is 9+. For each doubling of cost, and extra 25% increase in armour
volume, reduce this number by 1. So to have a really good AV, you have to
pay 32 times the value, and the armour takes up 275% volume

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:12:29 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)

At 02:20 PM 9/22/97 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>>>>   Hiding in a Gas Giant means your chance of
>>>>   detecting a refuelling ship is very small (A Gas Giant is big; the
>>>>   chance that a ship will decide to refuel close to where you are
>>>>   lurking is not very big).
>>
>> You mean a trader on a shoe string budget passing up on free fuel?  Not
going to happen.
>
>Sit down and figure out how *long* it takes to get from the gas giant
>to the mainworld.

While I might argue that many traders do not have the acumen to take a
present loss over future gains, those traders are likely not going to have
the money for good things to steal.  Or at least, not for long.

Given that we have been talking about 100d far ports anyway, why not set
one up near the gas giant?  The station owners can schlep cargoes through
normal space to get to the gas giant station, and then trade them with the
incoming merchants.  There would be a time lag, so a timely cargo would not
be there, but one that is plentiful in the system would probably be sitting
in warehouses, waiting to be picked up.

One point - in my universe, at least, worlds fear attack, which is why even
a settled world has a deep meson site.  If you are going to go to the
expense of placing a deep meson site, then you would certainly be wary
about placing a port at the 100d limit, as then people can just jump in and
take it.

In order to have this happen, I have ruled that the Imperium has had many
fractious periods, and that somehow "pirates" can get ahold of full
Imperial squadrons occasionally.  It does not happen often, but it happens
often enough to keep the appropriations committee funding the word defenses.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:41:42 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Silly rules

How about including amusing typos on encounters?

You know the ones, the Rouges, creatures with fowl tempers and such

##: 1D6 Rouges. Characters encounter a small group of french speaking
individuals who are espousing ancient Terran Marxist doctrine

##: 2D6 Vicious Aliens: These creatures are very fowl tempered. If
characters approach, creatures will begin clucking then attack like an
insane rooster

##: 1D6 Addicts: A number of confused people mill about. They are Drug Drug
addicts. They have no idea what the drugs do.

##: infinite number of gibbons on PCP: These extremely frenzied primates are
currently editing some manuscripts for books about the Imperium. There are
some people milling around them (probably Drug Drug addicts who will defend
the monkeys rather inaccurate work by saying give them time, they just
started)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 18:05 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Mercenary Administrivia, Nukes and Imperial Interest Rates

In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.16.19970914093106.202f303c@mail.orac.net.au>

Ian,

> Oh and you can absolutely forget det-lasers or mining nukes in private
> hands. If

Agreed.

> the Imperial Rules of War forbid the possession of nukes, then *all* nukes are
> forbidden. If that means some belters have a harder time making a buck or some
> civilians have to rely on the Navy for protection against pirates, so be it.

That's what they pay their taxes for.

> In my view, the net result would be the Imperial authorities encouraging
> use of
> fusion and (spit) Fission Plus rather than Fission technology.

And who owns the patent on F+...?
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:08:21 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Silly Era?

I'd never heard of TSE (!) before today. Can someone give me a website
address?

Apparently I belong there....

Martin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:51:41 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Pirates

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
> Erwin Fritz writes:
> >Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> >>When you've got 20 patrol ships and 200 places to patrol, then pirates may
> >>have a chance. When you have 200 patrol ships and 20 places to patrol they
> >>don't.
> >
> >I must disagree. You're right in saying that Rhylanor _can_ easily afford
> >to put a gazillion patrol ships in adjacent systems to reduce piracy.
> >
> >Why would they?
> 
> For the same reason Coast Guard ships go out to help ships in distress. The
> ship is there anyway, so you may as well get some use out of it.
> 

But Coast Guard ships don't go into foreign waters to do this. Remember,
we're talking about Rhylanor sending its patrol vessels into 
_adjacent_ systems. Sure, Rhlanor'll have ships in its own system.


> >Governments aren't relied upon to support businesses.
> 
> Surely one of the prime functions of a government is to protect its citizens.
> Protecting their trade is not far behind.
> 

Protecting the trade of other systems does not fall within the
jurisdiction of a government.

I doubt the Imperial Navy would get involved if a free trader got
hijacked by pirates. Now, if that free trader had, for a passenger,
the son of the second cousin of Duke Norris, well, that's another
matter. But for the average independent small merchantman, he's out
of luck.

The Imperium cares little for the fate of the average person. It has,
IMO, the attitude that people are expected to fend for themselves.
It also has the attitude, again IMO, that the above attitude does not
apply towards well-connected people like nobles and business 
executives. Your average small merchant starship contains neither
and is out of luck.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:05:07 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: CJ Cherryh - Finity's End

Has anyone on the list read "Finity's End"(*) yet, and if so, is it worth it?


(*) Latest in CJ Cherryh's Merchanter series set in the Union-Alliance
universe. If you haven't read her stuff yet I wholeheartedly recommend it
(Try 'Downbelow Station', 'Cyteen' or 'Merchanters' Luck' as a starter, or
have a look at http://www.cherryh.com for a complete bibliography).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 14:39:00 EDT
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@ansyspo.ansys.com>
Subject: H. Beam Piper

Hi All,

I just checked with my local book swap over lunch and found the following 
Piper titles.

Empire
First Cycle
Federation
Four Day Planet/Lone Star Planet
Uller Uprising

The owner is Mildred McCreight and her number is (412) 229-8558
Her asking price on these titles is half of cover, usually less than $2.00 
each.
Her health has not been very good recently so her shop is only open on 
Tuesdays and Fridays.

I will be happy to act as go between to handle shipping.
Bye,

Glenn
______________________________________________________
Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (412) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (412) 514-3118
______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:15:48 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com> wrote:

>> >1) The Old Farts:
>> >2) The New Old Farts:
>> >3) MegaTravellers:
>(etc.)
>
>This post JUST CRACKS ME UP!!!!!!

I've been sitting on it for almost a month - I didn't want to stir up any
trouble for the author!

>> >6) MMT Masocists: They love MMT.  They hate MMT.  They hate IG, but sign
>> >up in advance to buy more of their products, sight unseen and then
>> >complain bitterly about them when they arrive.  They hang around waiting
>> >for MM to finish "T4.1" and send long letters to the list telling him
>> >how he can improve it by adopting *their* rules.

>I guess I'm one of these.

You sure?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:21:54 -0500
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: THUDDD - whatzup?

 Does anyone know what the status of THUDDD is?

If it's defunct, I'd like to post my SDB design to the list to
get feedback (that's my favorite part - I really don't care
if I win or lose, so much...)

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:28:25 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

Doug Berry wrote:

>>Zhodani agents report that an anonymous source stated (those of you on the
>>TNE list know who...):
>>
>>>> XXXXXCENSOREDXXXXX was reported to have written on or about the 22nd
>August:
>
>I missed this!! Those darn Templars....

I'd be careful - this could be an attempt to claim a successful manipulation...

I heard about this and managed to get a copy!

>Oohh.. I'm a solid type 6.5  It seems that the Bohemians tend to be the
>loudest advocates of what i call the "Settlers", thise Traveller fans how
>consider the 3I settinhjg to be Traveller's defining characteristic.

YOU MEAN YOU DON'T THINK THE 3I IS TRAVELLERS DEFINING SETTING?

>>This should all be taken with a pinch of salt!
>
>Naaahhh.. a near-c chunk of salt would be more appropriate.

Probably with a swarm of fighters to protect it, using new task rules to
make them survive better...

>>Some other points:
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>>CT looks dated in some respects.
>
>Rules wise, yes, but the adventures and backround have stood the test of time.

Agree - I meant the rules.

>>MT does have its errors, but isn't that bad.
>Especially the DGP stuff.
Agree

>>TNE has an interesting background, but I *personally* find the rules
>>somewhat heavy going.
>
>But the vast number of character occupations, along with the ability to
>import from T2K and DC, made up for some of the problems.. I never ran TNE,
>just played it, so I can't speak from a Ref's perspective on this one.  TNE
>also gave the best space combat system for Traveller, Brillant Lances.

I tried to run it.... T4 is about right for me.

>>T4 has some duff products (First Survey and Starships), some okay products
>>(Central Supply Catalog, T4 rules) and some excellent products (Emperors
>>Arsenal, Milieu 0, and Pocket Empires). Fire Fusion and Steel would be
>>excellent if it wasn't for the typos.
>
>I'd include Pocket Empires, Psionics Institutes, and the BITS version of
>Long Way Home on the great items list.

Haven't read the Psionics Book, and I was trying to keep to IG stuff...
but, I would also recommend all the BITS 101 Books (Travellers, rendezvous,
Plots, Cargos)


>>But I would recommend waiting for T4.1 being released
>
>Agreed, from everything we've seen, T4.1 is going to be what we hoped for
>all along, assuming IG doesn't let a crew of gibbons on PCP do the editing
>and printing again...

Is that part of IG's mission statement?

Dom


- - --

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 19:43 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Firearms in Vacuum

In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970922111437.680A-100000@pill.Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>

> > > Well, no, a bullet is not a lifting body, and in a gravity field follows
> > > a ballistic path, ie: if you fire a rifle with zero elevation, the bullet
> > > rises above the point of firing.
> > 
> > Huh? What makes it rise? Surely it should only fall.
>  
> Ahhh...the omission of a single word...that, of course, should read
> "_never_ rises above the point of firing..."
>  
> My oops.

Ah!
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 19:44 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Milieu 0 Campaign Physical Condition ?

In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970922232437.00b5f908@topgun.cinecom.com>

Bill,

> >Do the copies of the Milieu 0 Campaign you have seen all have some cover
> >dammage ?
> >
> >Every copy that came in to the game shop I order games for had slight
> >dammage to its corners. ...
>  
> The copy I received direct from IG had scuffing at the ends of the spine -
> due to rubbing of the cover against the packing material, I'd guess... The
> shiny finish on the book is very fragile and I don't think the book (in its
> packing) was drop-kicked or anything to get this way.  This wear matches
> EXACTLY the wear appearing on ALL of the copies (10 or so) in stock at my
> two FLGSs...

Same here.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:51:05 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ron Dawson <rdawson@cgc.ns.ca>
Subject: Risks of dual measurement system

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor) wrote:

> Personally, I never saw any problem with having a dual system - MKS for
> the scientific and engineering types who really wanted it; Imperial for
> the rest of us. After all, the conversion factors were known and (with
> hindsight) working it into computer programs would not have been a real
> problem. 

Just the other day I went through a prototype review of a major SAR
program we're reworking and we were debating exactly what to do about the
mix of metric and imperial measurements.  Imagine if someone misinterprets
our wave height/sea state field as being meters instead of feet.  That
would throw a wrench into the results!  It certainly would be an easier
world if we were all completely on one (scientific) measurement system. 
Maybe some year.

As for other examples of the risks of dual measurement systems there have
been a few documented cases (here in Canada) of planes running out/low on
fuel mid-air (and making emergency landings) because someone was confused
as to the measurement system. 

- - Ron

- --------------------------------------------------------
Ron Dawson
CANSARP Support,                       Search and Rescue
Canadian Coast Guard College,                Sydney N.S.
Phone: (902) 564-3660 x1345          Fax: (902) 562-6113
Email: rdawson@cgc.ns.ca  Pager Email: pageron@cgc.ns.ca
- --------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:59:15 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Flywheel Energy Storage Systems aka accumulators

If anyone is interested, have a look at

http://www.ies-pirouette.com

in about a week's time. This should have the details/piccies/tech specs
about an operational FESS. Be warned though, the entry page is a 130k
graphic :-( and is too big for a browser running in 640 x 480 without
scrolling (something I'll point out to marketing at work).

(I won't comment about the product as I'm involved in it - this is just a
follow up to James' post on the Rosens.)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:42:06 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:Traveller Story:  Pysadian Jail

Kenneth posted a great little short story:

>WARNING:  THIS POST HAS TRAVELLER ADVENTURE SPOILERS IN IT!!!!
>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>I write a lot of little short stories for my group.  Sometimes I'll
>"novelize" an event that happened in our game, and sometimes I'll
>write a short "off camera" tale for the players to read in between
>games.

<snip>

>Without further ado, here's "Pysadian Jail".

Did you send it twice to give it us in stereo? ;-)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:53:24 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

Hans writes:

>SD Mooney writes:
>>In mail Hans Rancke-Madsen write:
>>Interesting point - my players are currently playing Twilights Peak, and
>>are making a killing on the Empress Nicholle (a type A2 Far trader with 61
>>dt cargo for those of you not familiar with this CT and  MT classic!) ,
>>just dealing in freight. And they have an additional 250 kCr loan covering
>>expenses to pay off in 12 months...
>>
>>but for some reason they nearly always refuel at the gas giant to save
>>expense. I may hit them with a late delivery penalty soon to encourage use
>>of mainworld refueling.
>
>Perhaps you should start having other free traders that don't refuel at
>Gas Giants undercut them. If they can make a profit even with the loss of
>time from wilderness refuelling then someone that dosen't can make a
>profit with lesser charges.


I'm using the standard rules straight out of MT (I assume that T4's are the
same but they're randomly spread across the book), and the players are just
carrying freight at the moment. I think the real fact is that those
refueling have an opportunity to make a higher profit as they can jump more
often. In cargo terms, I agree that they can cut delivery times by using
the starport.

In fact, I may introduce a ship that starts jumping and collecting freight
and cargo just before them and leaving them with a minimal selection just
to make this point. ;-)

<gulp> (sound of Ref swallowing his 'nasty' pill)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:10:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Pirates

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh) said:
> >Well, you actually need enough ships to cover the entire sphere of
> >the 100 diam limit.
> 
> 100 diameters is about 34 Brilliant Lances hexes. Typical effective weapons
> ranges for weapons might be 10-20 hexes, so you can cover the whole 100-diameter
> "circle" (in 2-d) with about 6 ships. In 3-d, you need about 12-15 ships.
> Piracy is really only practical in undefended systems (which makes sense;
> if piracy was easy and common there'd be no commerce.)

	You beat me to the punch here Bruce :-)  But let me add that you 
don't even need to cover the whole 100-d limit to be an effective 
deterrant to piracy.
	Take the example of a system with just _one_ SDB and place it in 
orbit around the main world.  If a ship all the way out at the 100-d 
limit sent out a distress call and then surrendered to pirates, it would 
take the 4G SDB only 3 turns (1.5 hours) to bring the pirate within range of 
its weapons.  Now if the pirate is off-loading cargo at this point it 
cannot evade weapons fire at all, so the SDB will hit _every_ time.  
Since standard weapons fire 10 times per turn, the pirate will be very 
dead in a big hurry.  So even in systems so poor they can only afford one 
SDB, pirates will have to subdue their target and off-load all of their 
cargo in just 1.5 hours.
	Some people will argue that some systems are so poor they can't 
afford _any_ SDBs.  In Milieu Zero, I agree that this is very true.  
Ships venturing beyond the borders of the nascent Imperium will find lots 
of undefended worlds that cannot control piracy.  But within the control 
of the Imp Navy, pirates will have a very short life-span.
	One more idea for you.  Say you've got an armed vessel in a 
sub-sector where trade is ravaged by pirates.  What will make you more 
money -- preying on the limited trade that exists, or hiring yourself out 
as an SDB?  If you just charge the merchants who pass through a fee and 
promise to chase off any pirates that enter the system, not only would 
your life be less violent, but trade would grow and you would have the 
support of merchants, world governments, everybody.  The merchants could 
even do this themselves with their limited weaponry by gathering together 
in convoys.  Unless those fractitious pirates can get similarly 
organized, the merchants will be able to travel in relative safety.
	
- -JM
 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1867
***********************************

Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 23 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1868



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: SSDS Question
Re: Pysadi Jail
Re: Silly Era?
Re: Lunion/Spinward Marches...
Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
SSDS Question (fwd)
Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)
Re: SSDS Question
Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)
Re: Insurance
Re: Piracy and Jump
Re: Pirates
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1866
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Pirates
Re: Lunion/Spinward Marches...
Re: Silly Era?
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Mechwarrior
Re: Traveller campaign
SSDS Help
Re: FF&S2 Question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:30:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: SSDS Question

> I noticed that armor is not handled like it was in High Guard where 
>your armor factor cannot be larget than the ship's TL.  And, I 
>noticed that some ships have some incredibly high armor values--like 
>60.  It seems these ships will keep on coming no matter what you 
>throw at them.
>
>Do I have to figure anything else in when I'm retrofitting a ship 
>with armor?  Hulls mass?  Are there any limits?

If this were to happen in my campaign I'd have to say that they'd have to get
a new hull built, and then the whole ship would have to be installed into
that new hull.

But, that's just the way I'd handle it.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:06:28 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Pysadi Jail

>When we played the Traveller Adventure, I came in just after we left
>Pysadi, so I missed this bit. The rest was pretty good, though.
>
>Isn't it amazing how people are still playing the old scenarios even now -
>surely that, if nothing else, is a sign of quality.

Hell, We just left Pysadi a few weeks back, with a bunch of Anolas in tow
and leaving a sizable crater in our wake.  We're almost up to the part
where !Hmmmph Hey! Ok I won't reveal the plot line over this "open
channel", but you get the idea.

The Traveller Adventure, definitely worth the $10 I paid for it.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:11:06 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Silly Era?

>I'd never heard of TSE (!) before today. Can someone give me a website
>address?
>
>Apparently I belong there....
>
>Martin

Did I beat Doug out of advocating his own web site?

http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/silytrav.html

Belongs to Doug Berry and has some neat stuff.

Also;

http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw/taglines.htm

Has a few funny taglines from traveller games.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:21:02 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Lunion/Spinward Marches...

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

>         If anybody has any background information on Lunion, or who knows
> where it can be found, can they please let me know?
>
>         Thanx...
>
> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

 Did you try Supplement #3, "Spinward Marches"?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:27:36 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

I recently picked up the Milieu: 0 Campaign book by Imperium Games.  While
it is true that this new hardcover book from IG incorporates previously
published materials (M:0 sourcebook, First Survey), it also includes a _lot_
of new material that any fan of Traveller would like to have for their
campaign, or their knowledge of the Third Imperium.  I can say that I wish
this kind of stuff had been around in the Classic Traveller era.  Any fan of
the Imperium _must_ have this book.

We are presented with more detailed information about the size of the
early Imperium--years 0-200, several entries about the surrounds of the
Imperium--vis-a-vis Pocket Empires, more detailing and expansion of the
Universal World Profile (UWP)--particularly an expansion of Law Levels is
provided, along with rationale for other pieces of the UWP.  There are also
patron encounters as well as a full-fledged adventure, complete with
deckplans for a Scout Cruiser.  Lastly, an expanded timeline/events list
more fully integrates the campaign with known information from CT/MT
background.

I should also say that I like the trend that has been established that the
referee has a _lot_ of latitude in what is detailed, and what is left to
each of us to do for ourselves.  This means a lot less throw-away lines,
and more meat and potatoes Traveller.  I love it.  If I hadn't started a
new "variant" universe campaign over a year ago, that my players are happy
with, I would switch to Milieu 0 in a heartbeat.  (Since several of my
players are known to get around, I should say that I never kill off a party
just to start fresh. :)

The glossy covers, complete with the eye-catching Foss artwork, continue
to make these products something to be coveted, and the excellent campaign
data appeal should attract any "black box" blueblood.

Finally, it makes clear that a Milieu is not just centered on the typical
assumption that the starting digit of the Milieu is "when" it is at, but
that the setting is for anyone wanting to run in 0, or any other year all
the way up to 200.

There is a mystery, however.  I don't know who did the work on the newly
added sections (continuing the M:0 sourcebook sequence) 9-12.  No offense
intended to anyone, but if these sections weren't written by Marc Miller,
it certainly rivals his style.

All in all, it really does make the difference having the two past works
combined with the new material to make a campaign book.  I may just have
to buy a second one as a "keeper."

Leroy


Leroy Guatney - lwlg@usa.net
 University of Mars, NorthAm Campus
 Class of '98

  http://ouray.cudenver.edu/~lwlguatn/trv.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:17:03 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: SSDS Question (fwd)

Moin Kenneth Bearden,

>  I noticed that armor is not handled like it was in High Guard where 
> your armor factor cannot be larget than the ship's TL.  And, I 
> noticed that some ships have some incredibly high armor values--like 
> 60.  It seems these ships will keep on coming no matter what you 
> throw at them.

	imho armor in T4 is broken :

	The hull (armor) has to be minimum 10*G rating in FFS terms.

	If I asume that FFS hull is T4 armor, I'm wrong
	- there are several ships with 0 armor (they dont have a hull ;-)

	If I asume that the FFS hull is converted by the BR table, I'm wrong
	- the scout would have a 500er hull.

	If I asume that the FFS hull is converted and multiplied by 10, ...
	- hand wave about the Gig or the Light Fighter, add a third rule.
	- what about the Ships Boat 6G should have 60 hull converted to 20 ?
	- the raw "military landing ship" would have a mass over 10000 tons
	  excluding anything besides hull&engine. So the powerplant of 750MW
	  would badly move the ship with 2G.
	- do you realy thing that "the proud of the 3I" has only enough
	  hull to sustain accelleration ?
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:41:10 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)

Moin Scott Ellsworth,

> Given that we have been talking about 100d far ports anyway, why not set
> one up near the gas giant?  The station owners can schlep cargoes through
> normal space to get to the gas giant station, and then trade them with the
> incoming merchants.  There would be a time lag, so a timely cargo would not
> be there, but one that is plentiful in the system would probably be sitting
> in warehouses, waiting to be picked up.

	of course you have 100 diameter orbital stations at many
	gas giant, those are called scout or military bases. Gas
	giants have a much to high strategic value to allow traders
	to use them. Having a own fleet at the gas giant is better
	than leaving refuling posibilities for an intruder, or offering
	him to mine the GGs. In TNE some GGs are mined anyway, if you
	dont send the right signal while tanking, and are detected
	by a mine, the mine will send 1d6 missiles. Other mines have
	a short range meson gun, and acting as a slowboat in the
	gas giant athmosshere. The occurence of a mined gas giant
	in M0 should be more seldom, but can be a common and cheap
	method for a pocket empire in the wilds which can not afford
	more than a dozend Tl10 SDBs for their half dozend systems.

	( Hint THUDDD 6 is still missing )
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:21:25 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS Question

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> SSDS Question for those in the know.
>
> My players have a standard subsidized merchant with no armor.  They
> want to put armor on it.

<snipped since this is longer than I intended already>

> Kenneth.

Ken,

Having watched some rather amazing pressure vessel rebuilds, and I
assume the repalcement of armor on a star ship to be a simular job,
here's my take on it. First it's not just a simple matter of striping
the old skin and throwing on the new. The new armor will be thicker,
obviuosly, so sensor leads, view port and airlock fittings, etc will
also have to be replaced or modified. The internal structure may need to
be beefed up to accomodate the added weight, not a factor in space, but
this is a ship that lands, and the added weight will be a factor there.
Landing gear will also have to be beefed up. All of this depends on the
amount of additional armor and can probably be figured from armor
factors and percentages.

Next consider the control surfaces. These may need to have heavier duty
actuators etc,

The Jump grid will prodably need to be repalced to fit the different
dimensions of the ship, unless they want to leave the outer dimensions
the same. Which creates the much more expensive situation of rebuilding
the ENTIRE internal structure to accomodate the thicker hul metal.

Then don't forget the Jumpdrive and manuver drive will need to be
reviewed. If the armor increase is large enough it could have an effect
here, possibly requireing an upgrade, or a degridation in proformance.

Most of these effects would hit the PC's in the pocket book more than
affect gameplay. So you as the Ref, have to make that call. Do you want
to strip away some extra capital, or make them think twice anout doing
the re-fit. On the other hand, if you don't have a disagreement with
them doing the re-fit, just assume this is all included in the cost of
adding the armor.

Oh, as far as charging them the DIFFERENCE between their current armor
and the new armor... I would charge them the cost of armor as if they
are placing it on a new ship, not the difference. I see this as
replaceing the entire hull plating, not layering it over the current
hull. Youcan calcuate a discount fo the scrap metal (the old hull
plating, suitable reduced since th scrap yard has to haul it away, they
may resell it but they will still deduct a major amount from whatever
price they think they can get for it!). If you elect to allow them to
layer it on the current armor, you might concider lowering the armor
factor slightly (-1 level or so) since, no matter how good the fitters
the fit between layers will not match exactly. (hmm, or may be the
opposite would be true, making it stronger, since the slight gap could
act as aspring for physical impact, and the armor have something of an
ablative effect. Seem to remember something like this in tank armor a
few years ago. Anyboy on the list hear of this? and have any details?).

At any rate that's my take on it, for what it's worth.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:03:10 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: NEW TO Traveller (somewhat long)

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> Wow, I'm a heretic too!  Since I'm a type 6.5 Canonite.

Well Doug,

We can take the Canon out of the heretic, but can we take the heretic out of the
Canon..... Boom!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:14:38 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Insurance

Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:54:03 -0600, Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
>It occurred to me that their insurance would cover the cost. THEN it
>occurred to me that, not only haven't they obtained any insurance,
>but I don't know how that works in Traveller.

The economics of insurance are pretty hard and fast.  The insurance
company trades paying a fixed sum for a possibility of having
to pay a large sum.  The insurance company is able to pay out
the large sums because it handles a lot of them, so the ones
where they have to pay out are balanced by the ones where they
pay nothing.  They then use this to charge a premium against those
who need to be protected from the risk.  Note: it is only an
expense that exceed you cash flow that makes insurance necessary.
If you can afford to handle the loss yourself, insurance is
always more expensive

In your case....
On average, the Insurance company will need to pay out the 
possible sum (the cost of the ship) times the probability 
that it will occur.  Since they intend to make a profit
(over the long run at least) they will now charge more
than this average cost to the client.  This could range
from 20% (for 

So if there is a 2% chance of loosing a 63 MCr ship in a
year.  Then the insurance company will figure an average
expense of 1.2 MCr.  Figure it costs them 5%/year to make
sure they have the money available and that they want to
make a 20% return on the deal, they would charge at least
1.5 MCr.  If it was a sellers market, this could range up
to 2-3 MCr.  This might also be true if the company was
small enough that a 63 MCr payout could endanger it's
future (there is a reason the insurance companies are
big).   Alternatively, a small company desperate for
business might decide to sell such a policy for below
cost figuring that if the ship comes back they it's
all profit, and if it doesn't they just go out of
business (if the company is only worth a small amount
of money, then this becomes a good gamble). 
_______________________________
Summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:17:20 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Piracy and Jump

MJ Dougherty wrote:

<First Snip of some good thoughts>

> And there are many things one can do in Jspace. Apart from the obvious
> 'Murder On The Rhylanor Express' idea, that is.
>
> ... live cargo that gets loose - can be comic or lethal.... Ten minutes to
> J-emergence and the chief engineer is drunk/in the bath/having another
> psychotic episode and locked himself in the Gig.... Wierd Jspace effects as
> a result of misjump.... Coming out of jump into a dust cloud or nebula.
> Sirens, alerts, panic.
>
> I've always taken Jspace as a non-place. Nobody understands it, though a
> few people have good theories. (That neatly handwaves the gravitic
> interference problem aside). I once decided that all Jspace was the SAME
> non-place, so everything that had ever been in Jspace was in there all at
> once, always. Thus you can have strange effects like stray messages or the
> time three Rule Of Man crewmen from the Solomani cruiser Navarino - lost in
> a misjump a thousand years an more ago - walked out of thin air into the
> gunroom of the frigate Saberwolf. Upon inspection, it was found that the
> Wolf (built during the Hard Times with ancient salvaged parts many times
> recycled) had been built with some parts from the wreck of the Navarino.
>
> Martin.

Bravo Martin,

I like the "Philadelphia Experiment" feel of the 3 crewmen! With your
permission, I'd like to use some of these ideas. (Not that I might not twist
them and use them any way, but my Mom always insisted I should be polite ;).
Thank you for the niffty new ways to play mind games with the PC's.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:20:52 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Pirates

On 23 Sep 97 at 11:51, Erwin Fritz wrote:

> But Coast Guard ships don't go into foreign waters to do this. Remember,
> we're talking about Rhylanor sending its patrol vessels into _adjacent_
> systems. Sure, Rhlanor'll have ships in its own system.

No, but the US does assist lesser countries in defending their borders.  If Rhylanor is 
perceived as such, they could be asked to assist their lesser neighboring systems.

> > >Governments aren't relied upon to support businesses.
> > 
> > Surely one of the prime functions of a government is to protect its
> > citizens. Protecting their trade is not far behind.
> 
> Protecting the trade of other systems does not fall within the
> jurisdiction of a government.

Except as above.



 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:41:43 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1866

SD Mooney writes:
>but for some reason they nearly always refuel at the gas giant to save
>expense. I may hit them with a late delivery penalty soon to encourage use
>of mainworld refueling.

Its a roleplaying problem.  The fact is that they are treating the
time spent travelling back to and from the gas giant as "free" since...
a) They get more money per game session (which the players care
more about) than per month of their character's lives (which
their characters would care about).
b) If they are also just jumping in, grabbing cargo/freight, and
jumping right out, then you need to start (after a few weeks)
telling them that they have been basically going straight (either
working their tails off on planet or cooped up in space the
size of a modest apartment) for some time and it's beginning
to wear thin.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:41:22 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:25:02 +0200 (METDST)
> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

> >You don't "hide" that way.  You pose as a normal unassuming ship
> >and then hit quickly and jump out.
> 
> Good point. I hadn't considered that. But it won't be enough. If piracy is
> a concern, merchant ships will be assigned arrival and departure slots that
> will keep them far enough from each other for a patrol ship to intercept 
> anyone who deviated from his assigned slot.

You can't have arrival slots since you can't communicate faster than
you can travel you can't arrange for people to be expecting you (except
the send whole 'nother ship, though this might be another way that 
jump torps could fundamentally change things, but we won't get into 
that :-)  Also, you have interplanetary travel and a ship could easily
pose as ship arriving, departing, or passing by the planet on an
interplanetary trip.

> >Well, you actually need enough ships to cover the entire sphere of
> >the 100 diam limit. 

> Which would be about 12 ships if you really wanted to cover the entire
> sphere. But there would be no need for that. Just an arrival area and
> a departure area.

Well, not all ships are going to be using the same departure and exit
areas.  In fact, it the ships that are not near the usual spots, and
are hence off by themselves.
> 
> >Then you need to do that at every planet that has traffic (population, 
> >mining, refueling, etc.).  I would say that Regina can do this easily.  
> >A small pop world might, for example, only have one or two ships.  
> 
> Oh sure. There are plenty of worlds in the Traveller Universe that can't
> afford even one ship. But there are a number of worlds that can afford
> hundreds of ships to take up the slack.

Well, Regina has to have a dozen patrols just for the main world (and
in fact, you want them in twos or threes since you don't want to make
sure that they will be able to out gun the pirate).  And then you are
going to need ships to spell them.  And then you are going to have to
patrol all the other inhabited worlds and also the gas giants.  (And
the gas giants are going to take more than a dozen ships.)  Then
Regina has to spend money on it's contribution to the Imperial Navy
(which, for a rich world, will be significant).  Then you have to
convince them to spare a dozens of ships to guard each of all those
fringe marginal planets.
 
> >(Especially if you want to take ships and group them into fleets for 
> >military purposes).
 
> Oh, so far I have only calculated with about 1/1000th of the naval budget
> going to piracy suppression. If you assume that the rest of the fleet 
> will protect the big worlds, you can use all those patrol ships to cover
> the worlds without ships of their own.

Well, I'm not sure what you are using for your calculation of the
naval budget.  But the numbers of ships I see it as taking, and the
minor costs the piracy causes the Imperium to suffer, I don't see
it as being a big worthwhile.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:00:10 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Pirates

>[good discussion of anti-piracy by JM removed]

I think, in general, Traveller astrography would be more interesting if
there were fewer inhabited/habitable worlds and more systems with 
only gas giants. This makes warfare more interesting - gas giant refuelling
is a necessity, fleets can be snuck into enemy territory, supply lines can
be disrupted - and certainly makes piracy/privateering more important, as 
there will be lots of merchants doing field refuelling in otherwise-uninhabeted
systems. If I were to run a military-oriented campaign I'd probably set it in
such a region. (For example, it could be a region of mostly Population II
stars, with too few heavy elements to form non-gaseous planets...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:54:36 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Lunion/Spinward Marches...

At 12:24 PM 9/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>	If anybody has any background information on Lunion, or who knows
>where it can be found, can they please let me know?

That's my stomping ground!  I'm still collecting all the notes, but what do
you need to know?
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:59:18 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Silly Era?

At 04:11 PM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I'd never heard of TSE (!) before today. Can someone give me a website
>>address?
>>
>>Apparently I belong there....
>>
>>Martin
>
>Did I beat Doug out of advocating his own web site?

I do occasionly do things like eat and sleep... I don't spend 24/7 lurking
around, waiting to shanghai unsuspecting netizens to my sight just for the
pathetic enjoyment of watching the counter numbers go up..

That only takes eight hours out of my day.


- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:21:18 GMT
From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:25:02 +0200 (METDST), you wrote:


>Good point. I hadn't considered that. But it won't be enough. If piracy is
>a concern, merchant ships will be assigned arrival and departure slots that
>will keep them far enough from each other for a patrol ship to intercept 
>anyone who deviated from his assigned slot.

For departures pehaps, but not for arrivals. There's no way a planet
can know who or what is coming there, because everything takes a week
to jump. Of course, neither does a pirate know what's arriving...

>Which would be about 12 ships if you really wanted to cover the entire
>sphere. But there would be no need for that. Just an arrival area and
>a departure area.

How do you get only 12 ships are needed to patrol such an enormous
sphere? Has the weapon ranges increased so much that this number is
all that's necessary?

>Oh sure. There are plenty of worlds in the Traveller Universe that can't
>afford even one ship. But there are a number of worlds that can afford
>hundreds of ships to take up the slack.

What's in it for them to do this, though? If there's no benefit, no
one's going to help out of the goodness of their hearts.

John Lansford

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:04:49 +0000
From: "Doctor Vince (drvince@ix.netcom.com)" <drvince@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Mechwarrior

> Do we get to argue the various merits and disadvantages of Mecha vs.
> conventional armor again??


Can someone give me a quick overview of the flame war^H^H^H^H 
arguement? I missed that one, and I have a couple of players debating 
this very thing. I'd like to be prepared for any and sundy issues 
that arise.

Vince

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:27:46 -0500
From: ghost029@juno.com
Subject: Re: Traveller campaign

Thomas Harkless
ex MM1/SS
searching for Bradish and Harkless


>No group at present.  Damn all the luck!!


Looking for a group in the Metro Detroit area. If you have an opening
please feel free to email me at Ghost029@juno.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:44:19 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: SSDS Help

I'm looking at SSDS in Starships.

On page 32, Joe Walsh has designed a Secure Trader.  This is a 200 ton
ship with Armor 40 and Structure 12. It does 2 G's.

Now, on page 75, where the SSDS rules are, it says that Structure is
ship displacement in tons times G-Rating.  Then convert this number
using the USP chart.

OK.  So 200 x 2 = 400.  On the USP chart, 400 corresponds to a USP of 9.

Why is the structure of this ship 12 instead of 9?

Help!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 09:35:05 -0500
From: ghost029@juno.com
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Question

Just looked at my copy and I don't see anything, I'm not perfect, so I
might have missed something
Thomas Harkless
ex MM1/SS
searching for Bradish and Harkless

On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:11:35 +0000 Kenneth Bearden
<dreamer@brokersys.com> writes:
>For those of you with FF&S2...
>
>Is there a section, like chapter 12 in the TNE version of FF&S, that
>deals with cybernetic implants?
>
>One of my players is showing interest in this area, and I'm thinking
>what the heck--this is a science fiction game.
>
>I've got the TNE version of FF&S, but I'm going to go out and buy the 
>T4
>version if this is contained in it.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kenneth.
>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1868
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 24 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1869



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Harold:
SSDS Armor Help
A Magical Moment
Re: Fusion
Re: Hacking, betaware, and you
World Builder's Handbook - program?
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: Traveller Story:  Pysadian Jail
Re: SSDS Question
THUDDD Lives!  (barely...)
Bandage Web site
Re: SSDS Question
Re: Bandage Web site
Re: Lunion/Spinward Marches...
Re: SSDS Armor Help
Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?
re:Lunion/Spinward Marches...
re:SSDS Help
Measurements.....
Crosspost from ISBA:Offer to Famille Spofulam
Jump fuel requirements for MT starships

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:27:22 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Harold:

Loren Wiseman wrote:

>> it seemed that Mr. Gygax had begun development work on DJ while he was at
>> TSR, and according to his departure agreement with that company, anything
>> he developed while there became TSR's property)
>
>This is a commonly repeated rumor, and _absolutely_ untrue. I was on GDW's
>board of directors, and as such read _every_written word connected with the
>lawsuit. Trust me.

   Something I picked up from somebody who claimed to have been
associated with TSR at one point.  If you say it isn't true, then it
isn't.  It seemed to me that Mr. Gygax would have to be one short of a
full load to even try such a thing, especially given the circumstances
under which he left TSR.  I'm glad to hear he didn't.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:05:00 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: SSDS Armor Help

I'm looking at Starships again.

Joe Walsh's Secure Trader, on page 32, has Armor 40.

How was that number determined?
How much did that armor cost?



I see on page 70 the rules for armor price, volume, and mass.  But, I am
confused by the rule on page 75 for determining Armor Rating.

Let's follow this through.

What I'm trying to find out is how much all of the armor cost.

On page 70, it says to multiply the armor level desired by the volume
factor from the hull sheet.

Our volume factor is 0.71.  The armor level is 40, from the ship's
description on page 32.

0.71 x 40 = 28.4

The volume of the ship's hull taken up by the armor is 28.4 cubic
meters.

Right?

That hull, on page 32, looks to me like a cylinder.  It's a 200 ton
hull, and I'd say it is streamlined.  It is definitely not an airframe.

Now,to find the cost, we multiply 28.4 by the cost per cubic meter for
TL 12 superdense material (listed on page 77).

So, the cost for the armor of this vessel is 28.4 x 0.014.

That's Cr397,600.

Right?

Now we multiply for streamlining.  397,600 x .8.

That's Cr318,080.

For 40 points of armor on this 200 ton hull, it costs Cr318,080?

Heck.  If that is all it costs, then I'm armoring all of my ships to the
hilt.

Now, I am confused.  On page 75, it says to convert the armor value
chosen using the USP chart.

How does that play a part in all of this?

I want to end up with armor 40, and I want to figure out how much it
costs to do this.

Thanks for the help.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:35:51 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: A Magical Moment

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> Hah! Poor bugger. That'll teach him.

LOL!

I thought so too!

> When we played the Traveller Adventure, I came in just after we left
> Pysadi, so I missed this bit. The rest was pretty good, though.
> 
> Isn't it amazing how people are still playing the old scenarios even now -
> surely that, if nothing else, is a sign of quality.

The TA is the best!

This is about the third time I've run it, and each time it's been
different.

Of course, I just use it for the spine of my overall story.  I have
greatly modified this one.  In fact, Eneri Giilaan, a minor character in
the actual adventure, is a big Naval Intelligence type (read:  I'm
playing him like a nasty CIA type) who's pulling the strings.

We are having a blast.  Marc did an excellent job on this one.

> Good story, too.

Thanks.  I really appreciate that.  I've been getting private e-mails
from my players.  I sent them the story last night, so they are just now
reading it at work today.  They really liked it as well.

It's always nice to get to work, pop on your e-mail, and be surprised
with a story about your character.  It sure gives you a heck of a lot
more to think about at lunch than work.

And, it keeps my players thinking about the game inbetween sessions. 
They are always eager to come back, especially after a story like this.

I encourge creativity in my game.  I've had two of the players write
stories of their own.  Sometimes its something that happened in the
character's past, and sometimes they "novelize", as I do, events that
happen in the game.

Two game sessions ago, one of my players rewarded the other with a
drawing of the other players character in action.

The game before, we had this big shoot out in a bar on Aramis.  Frank,
the character drawn, was crouching down behind the bar while the bad
guys came and were searching for him in between the tables.

The player said, "Hey, doesn't this bar have some sort of shotgun or
pistol or club or something, like most bars do?"

You already know that the guy didn't have a weapon.  Of course, the guys
looking for him were carrying TL 13 Gauss Pistols and wearing diplo
under their long coats.

I thought the player was creatively thinking, so I says to him, "Well,
maybe.  Let's find out.  It sounds like a 50-50 proposition.  Beat me
higher dice."

He rolled a D6,and I rolled a D6.  He won.

Good for him, I thought to myself.

Well, let's see.  I looked at the map.  There was the bar area the
character was in.  There was a back room office/storage area adjacent to
that area, and there was another bar area on the other side of the
establishment.

"We'll roll one die.  On a 1 or 2, there's a weapon in the storage
room.  On a 3 or 4, the weapon is in the bar area that your character is
in.  And, on a 5 or 6, there's a weapon in the other bar area."

Bam.  I rolled  a 3.  Lucky dude.

This is the time in my games when things really start getting
interesting.  The players start to sweat--one missed die roll can send
them down the wrong road, in this case without a weapon.

"OK," I said,"there is a weapon in your bar area.  Let's see what it
is.  We'll roll a die.  1 to 3, the weapon is a club or something like
that.  4 or 5, I'll give you a pistol.  On a 6, I'll give you a rifle of
some sort--probably a shotgun."

I pushed the die towards the player.  He looked at it, then picked a die
from his own pile.  Players are finicky like that.  The get pretty
superstitious about their dice.

After the careful selection, he rolls.

It's a 6!

The whole table smiles at me.

"OK," I said again, "you get a shotgun.  TL 10 OK with you?"

The player smiled wider.

"Now, let's find out where the shotgun is in the bar are.  It's 6 meters
long by 3 meters.  There's twelve total squares here.  I'll roll 1 die
to determine which row the shotgun is kept--1 to 3 it's on the far row
away from the character.  4 to 6, its on under the bar area somewhere,
in the row where the character is crouching."

I rolled.  It was in the character's row.

"We now know the row.  I'll simply roll 1 die,"  I numbered the squares,
"on a 5, it is right above the character's head, clamped to the
underside of the bar."

I tossed the die up.

It seemed like slow motion.

It took forever to fall to the table.

And...pop, pop...it was a 5!!!!

The table cheered!  The player's teeth were showing,his smile was so
big!

It was one of those magical moments that happen in role playing.  This
is what the addiction is all about.  This is why we keep coming
back--putting our busy lives on hold, hours at a time, for more and
more. 

Frank, the character, grabbed the shotgun, pumped it once to shove in a
shell, and swung over the bar, blasting away.

This is the drawing the one player gave to Frank's player.  It was
Frank, flopped up over the bar, pulling hard on that shotgun trigger.

Truly...a magical moment.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:58:08 -0400
From: Eric Freitas <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Fusion

At 10:36 PM 9/17/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Moreover, all this applies only to *point sources*. There are plenty of
>other things in this universe aside from point sources. With suitable
>engineering you can get just about any force law you want.

	I agree, for instance the magnetic field developed by a coil is
almost completely developed inside the coil, with a very sharp decrease
in field strength outside the coil.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:12:54 -0400
From: Eric Freitas <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Hacking, betaware, and you

Frankly, if you hack into your powerplants ROM code you're
risking your life and the lives of those on board (not to
mention voiding your warranty).  

Speaking from experience, if you have a controller running
software that can cause death or destruction when it fails
you had better insure that it doesn't (for lack of a better
term) GPF.  The resulting lawsuit will insure that you 
never make that mistake again.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:40:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: World Builder's Handbook - program?

Been pretty much lurking for a short time - figured I'd step up to ask a
question....

Just pulled out my World Builder's Handbook to satisfy my own curiosity on
the various Tech Levels that that book broke up (and modified) from the one
level given in the planets UWP.  There had been some discussion about how
people liked or didn't like having several Tech Levels to track and what THAT
meant.

Anyeay, I noticed an add in the back about a program for various formats
where you can load in a planet's UWP and it would generate the variables how
the book defined them (hopefully with some nice output?).  Also implied you
could feed it in a whole sector's data to do this for the whole sector.

Did anyone ever get it?  Did it work?  Did it work well?  Are there copies
available (hopefully freeware after 7 years?)

Oh yes, if this question doesn't generate such an answer: would anyone have
any other pointers on where I might find computer aids for Traveller
(prefereably original or MT) specific info?

Thanks for all the help!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:30:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: XatoKuom@aol.com
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

In a message dated 97-09-22 00:53:05 EDT, you write:

<<      I think you may be refering to the Maus (Mouse in Deutsch) tank. It
 was to be a super heavy (150+ tones) tank with a main 150mm gun and an 75mm
 Panther cannon coaxial, plus an assortment of MG's and an AA mount on the
 turret top (20mm or so). Armor was said to be inexcess of 120mm to the
 front (at a 30% grade), and unknown on the sides, top, and rear. Speed was
 to be near 25-35 KPH with a range of about 200KM. Would have been a sight
 if one did actually get to fight...
         Trouble was that there were few bridges in europe that could hold
 one of these monsters. Just to get it to the front to fight would have been
 a chore. 
  >>

Amazingly enough, this is not the tank I was mentioning.  In 1944 designs had
been drawn up for the 1,000mt monster I mentioned earlier.  It never, of
course, reached production stage as the idea was purely conjectural in
nature.  Hitler wanted it built, but the Waffen SS convinced him that more
Royal(King) Tigers were needed instead.

The largest "production tank" of the was was the JagdTiger tank which carried
a 128mm/48(?) calibre main gun and weighed in at a whopping 75mt.  The
transmission and powerplant used could barely keep up with the beating and as
a result these tanks became little more than glorified mobile pillboxes.

Scott Quigg(XatoKuom@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 02:10:18 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Story:  Pysadian Jail

SD Mooney wrote:
> 
> Kenneth posted a great little short story:

> Did you send it twice to give it us in stereo? ;-)

Sorry about that.  Damn netscapte mail.  I like my Pegasus Mail on my
other machine much better.

I was trying to send it to my players...and, whoops, off it went again
to the list.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 02:15:05 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS Question

SemoFetus@aol.com wrote:

> If this were to happen in my campaign I'd have to say that they'd have to get
> a new hull built, and then the whole ship would have to be installed into
> that new hull.
> 
> But, that's just the way I'd handle it.

After thinking about this long and hard, I think you are right.

I've never handled this situation before in a game.  Now I know that the
answer is No.

Players always love it when you tell them No.

It's like that beautiful woman who keeps giving you mixed signals.  You
think she likes you, then she's cold.

It keeps them coming back.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:16:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD Lives!  (barely...)

Hi, all,

Many of you are probably wondering what became of the August THUDDD, the
low-tech SDB.  Well, my hard drive head-crashed...then the drive onto
which the repair shop had painstakingly retrieved the un-backed-up
portions of my drive, over a three-week period, crashed *one hour prior to
their cutting a CD from it*, losing all my data irretrievably; then my
compiler replacement on the carefully rebuilt-nearly-from-scratch PC was
fatally buggy; then the patch corrected some of those bugs while
introducing new ones; then the patch to that patch fixed *almost*
everything; then workarounds to what it didn't fix followed the Software
Scheduling Rule of doubling the estimate and moving to the next higher
unit of time (my estimate: 4 hours; actual elapsed time: 8 days). 

SOOOOOOO...(dramatic pause)...by a series of miracles, all August THUDDD
entries *have* been recovered, they *are* on my new disk, my tools to
generate ballots etc. *are* working again, and tomorrow night I start the
semi-manual process of actually getting the ballots out.  Expect to see
them by Thursday night...barring near-c Virus-infected technocratic rocks
using a nonstandard task system impacting my PC, of course...hey, what's
that *whoosh* sound....?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 02:31:17 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Bandage Web site

Some nice soul listed a web site that had the original JTAS article for
Bandage on it.

It was:  members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/index

I'm trying to go there, but I keep getting a "no DNS entry".

Is this address right?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 02:39:45 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS Question

Michael D. Peters wrote:
>
> Ken,
> 
> Having watched some rather amazing pressure vessel rebuilds, and I
> assume the repalcement of armor on a star ship to be a simular job,
> here's my take on it. 

Thanks, Mike, for a very detailed post.

I'm forwarding your post in its entirety to my players for reasoning why
I'm not going to allow this.

I had already decided that this is a bad idea, and your post fills in
all the justification blanks that I'm going to have to fill with my
players--especially since I already hinted that it might be possible.

A GMs job is never done.

You just made it easier.

Thanks again,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:06:42 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Bandage Web site

On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Some nice soul listed a web site that had the original JTAS article for
> Bandage on it.
> 
> It was:  members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/index

The rigt site is

    http://members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/

and the bandage page is 

    http://members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/bandage.htm

Under the Journal of Travller's Aid Soceity Index page.
> 
> I'm trying to go there, but I keep getting a "no DNS entry".
> 
> Is this address right?
> 
> Kenneth.
> 

Tommy Grav                  tommy.grav@astro.uio.no    
Institute of Astrophysics   http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/
University in Oslo          "If you value your lives, be somwhere 
Norway                       else!" - Ambassador Delenn B5 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:59:04 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Lunion/Spinward Marches...

Jory M. Earl wrote:

>
>Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
>
>>         If anybody has any background information on Lunion, or who knows
>> where it can be found, can they please let me know?
>>
>>         Thanx...
>>
>> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
>
> Did you try Supplement #3, "Spinward Marches"?

	Haven't got it available...:(.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:19:36 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: SSDS Armor Help

At 19:05 1997-09-23 +0000, you wrote:
>For 40 points of armor on this 200 ton hull, it costs Cr318,080?
>
>Heck.  If that is all it costs, then I'm armoring all of my ships to the
>hilt.
>
>Now, I am confused.  On page 75, it says to convert the armor value
>chosen using the USP chart.
>
>How does that play a part in all of this?
>
>I want to end up with armor 40, and I want to figure out how much it
>costs to do this.

First of all I want to make something clear: I am pretty new to Traveller.

I read these rules quite a few times, and this is the way I understood them
(and thus use them):

The armor rating you purchase isn't the one used in the game. It will have
to be converted into USP rating using the chart on page 107. The USP rating
is the value used in space combat, the other value is simply there for
calculation purposses. This means that twice as much armor costs far more
than twice as much cash, which sounds very logical to me (heavier armor IS
harder to build, after all).

In your example, you have bought 40 points of armor. This would convert to
an armor rating of 2. If you would want an armor rating of 40, you would
have to buy 47000 points of armor (MUCH more expensive).

If there is anything wrong with this way of thinking, please tell me.

Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm (Link=F6ping, Sweden)

It's astounding, time is fleeting, madness takes it's toll
But listen closely, not for very much longer
I've got to keep control
I remember doing the Time Warp
Drinking those moments when the darkness would hit me
And a void would be calling
Let's do the Time Warp again

- - Time Warp, from the Rocky Horror Picture Show

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:44:19 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?

I've been thinking about writing a world generator based on the Would
Builder's book.  I've written various charavter generators before for
AD&D and Gamma World.  Nothing for Traveller except a homeworld finder.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:51:15 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:Lunion/Spinward Marches...

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

>	If anybody has any background information on Lunion, or who knows
>where it can be found, can they please let me know?

Hasn't Doug Berry done a lot of stuff on Lunion?

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:08:45 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:SSDS Help

Ken Bearden wrote:

>I'm looking at SSDS in Starships.

Oh dear!

>On page 32, Joe Walsh has designed a Secure Trader.  This is a 200 ton
>ship with Armor 40 and Structure 12. It does 2 G's.
>
>Now, on page 75, where the SSDS rules are, it says that Structure is
>ship displacement in tons times G-Rating.  Then convert this number
>using the USP chart.
>
>OK.  So 200 x 2 = 400.  On the USP chart, 400 corresponds to a USP of 9.
>
>Why is the structure of this ship 12 instead of 9?
>
>Help!

Wasn't one of the big irritants about Starships (apart from the colour
plates separating the SSDS section, the truly awful deckplans, and the
designs of some of the classic ships, excuse me while I stop slavering...)
the fact that most of the ships in the book could not be designed with QSDS
or SSDS?

Solution: throw away starships, and dig out CT Book 2 and Book 5 and adopt
High Guard as the design and combat sequence for T4. It works for me....
And you can use supplement 7 traders and gunboats for deckplans...

Dom (in a cynical mood)


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:19:55 +0800
From: Michael Bailey <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Measurements.....

We've been metricated here for a couple of decades...but many professions
will stick with the Imperial measures for a long time to come.  For
example, in my own profession (air traffic controller), altitude is
measured in feet, distance in nautical miles.  However, runway lengths and
visibilities are measured in metres and kilometres.

Which has led to problems with the opening up of the old Soviet airspace to
commercial traffic - the Russians use metres and kilometres for altitude
and distance respectively....

Rum old world, eh?


Michael Bailey
mickb@opera.iinet.net.au
				
pillock-at-large and proud supporter of the Chelsea FC and Fremantle AFL
Clubs!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:15:59 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Crosspost from ISBA:Offer to Famille Spofulam

Back on the TML, Leonard wrote:

>Remember, the IISS still *owns* most of the Type-S ships running
>around. So they'd have to approve of such a major change. And while
>they'd likely have no trouble with the drives getting swapped. they may
>be a bit more picky about the sensor suite.
>
>So I picture some large burly men in IISS uniforms showing up and
>"insisting" on having a talk with the president of Famille Spofulam.

Starlane Drive Manufacturers hereby offers to come to an 'arrangement' with
Famille Spofulam on the disposal of surplus scout sensor suites. Name your
price and let's negotiate! ;-)

____

Sources in the Diaspora sector suggest that Starlane Drive Manufacturers
are considering the construction of a series of remote sensor stations to
operate in conjunction with the newly deployed 'Pirana' class SDB.

A spokesman for the company has been quoted as saying - "By deploying
remote sensor stations, tenders and a shoal of Piranas, almost any world
may defend itself against the aggression of the Vilani autocrat 'Cleon I'.
Of course, with our Old Earth Union sponsorship, we'll be developing new
defenses against the Imperial Expansionism of the Syleans."

____

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:28:05 -0400
From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
Subject: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships

When designing ships using MT rules, I find that jump fuel
requirements are too high. The formula for this is:
jump fuel volume : X5 (67,5 kiloliters per jump unit)
I find the X 5 is a bit high. And why 67,5 ????
How does this system measure up to TNE and T4??? (or other starship
design systems, such as FFS...)
I'd like to thank Michael for his input on power plant fuel
requirements and fixes for this.
  

ciao,

Denis Allain
New-Brunswick, Canada
mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1869
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 24 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1870



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Live Campaigns
Live Campaigns
TNAS AV Conversions to FFS2 and CSC
No Long Range Active Sensors?
Catching up
Re: SSDS
A gearhead/techie proposal
Re: SSDS Armour
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Guidance for IG Writers
Re: Lunion/Spinward Marches
Re: THUDDD Lives!  (barely...)
Interstellar Wars Colonization
Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?
Re: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD
Memories
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?
Re: Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
Re: Piracy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 10:20:45 -0400
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Live Campaigns

Location: Decatur GA, just outside Atlanta
Age: about 1 year
Meeting: We alternate with D&D, so about every two weeks or so.
Group Size: 3 players 1 GM
Referees: Me
Health: Failing, will probably die in March.  Two of my players are
moving to Los Angeles and I will start writing my thesis in Dec, and I
could graduate as soon as March if I get a job.  I'll be in LA for
October and most of November is already shot.  
Rules: TNE
Setting: Reformation Coalition in 1202


Lewis Roberts
- ---------------------------------------------------------------    
Q:Why did the fish cross the ocean?                    
A:To get to the other tide.  
 
lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:05:42 -0600
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Live Campaigns

Location: Columbia, MO
Age: about 1 year
Meeting: every week, with the few exceptions
Group Size: 5 to 6 players, and me.
Referees: Me
Health: Pretty good. I expect we'll be going for quite some time... :)
Rules: T4
Setting: Straight T4, just outside Sylean Federation as it's
         becoming the 3rd Imperium

 joe                          (573) 882-2000
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe
 PGP Fingerprint: E3 3F DF 08 BE 3E 44 A0  EE A9 80 7E 22 99 CD DF
 "with a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and
 impenetrable fog!" -- Calvin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:08:13 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: TNAS AV Conversions to FFS2 and CSC

Below is listing of armor types and values for TNAS(Traveller Naval
Architecture System) for T41.

I have found the cerain baseline values(Hard Steel, SuperDense) to
identical to the ones in TNE/FFS1. I have converted them to FFS2 and CSC
values.

FFS2 and CSC values are in toughness the baseline masses and costs are the
same as in TNE/FFS1 and CSC.

TL  Description           Tough  Mass  Mcr/M3     FFS2  CSC
4   Steel	            1.7    8     0.0016     2.43   6
5   Experimental Plastics 0.2    1     0.0001     0.29   3
5   Hard Steel            2      8     0.002      2.86   6
6   Aluminum              1      3     0.0015     1.43   5
6   Titanium              2      4.5   0.005625   2.86   6
7   Hybrid Plastics       0.5    1.5   0.0003     0.72   4
7   Laminate              2      6     0.003      2.86   6
8   Composite Laminate    6      5     0.005      8.58   9
9   Advanced Steel        4      6     0.006      5.72   8
9   Sheathed Foam         0.8    1.8   0.00054    1.14   4
10  Advanced Composite    7      7     0.0105     10.01  9
10  CrystalIron           8      10    0.009      11.44  10
10  Dense                 9      10    0.015      12.87  10
10  Foamed Aluminum       0.5    1.5   0.000375   0.72   4
11  Doped Plastics        1      1     0.0004     1.43   5
11  Foamed Titanium       1      2.25  0.00140625 1.43   5
11  StructureComp         11     13    0.0117     15.73  11
12  Superdense            14     15    0.015      20.02  11
13  Advanced CrystralIron 10     10    0.008      14.3   10
13  Advanced Superdense   21     15    0.0135     30.03  13
13  Charged Aluminum      2      3     0.003      2.86   6
14  Bonded Superdense     28     15    0.012      40.04  14
14  Charged Foam          2      1     0.0005     2.86   6
14  Charged Titanium      4      4.5   0.01125    5.72   8
14  Light StructureComp   7      4     0.0032     10.01  9
15  Hybrid CrystalIron    14     9     0.0072     20.02  11
16  Hullmetal             12     5     0.0075     17.16  11
17  Coherent Superdense   40     15    0.0375     57.2   16
17  Foamed Hullmetal      6      2.5   0.001875   8.58   9
20  Sheathed Hydrogen     12     3     0.006      17.16  11

Could someone forward thsi message to Guy Garnette Im still in his Delete
filter.<G>

The list looks interesting.


- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:08:19 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: No Long Range Active Sensors?

anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman) said:
>As actives drop of at 1/(r^4) compared to passives 1/(r^2) there will be NO
>long range active sensors in space. Also, the advantage to know the range
>to target at each instance is not as important when weaponry generally move
>at c or near c.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. You can format or encode your active signal
to give you loads of data about a target which just can't be obtained from a
passive sensor, even given the r^2/r^4 difference in returned signal.

Also, I think your c-speed weaponry declaration seems to assume that your
sensor is attached directly to the weapon (thus as long as it points in the
right direction the range is irrelevant), whereas a large number of sensors
will be quite detached from the weapons and used for non-weapon guidance.
Without the ability to resolve in all three dimensions you can't
*efficiently* map the location of each ship in an opponents' battle fleet.

Apologies if I've misunderstood your argument? :-?

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:08:16 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Catching up

A week off and too many messages from the TML

Thankfully, given the amount of non-Traveller garbage, unnecessarily huge
copies of re-quoted e-mails, etc. I should be back up to speed in no time.
Perhaps a slightly longer netiquette post should be put out by Rob Miracle
at some point to show how short quotes, etc. dramatically increase the
readability of the TML?

Ok, now 10 seconds on me, me, me!

Group 1
> Location     : Sawbridgeworth, Essex
> Age          : Various campaigns from 1 year to many years
> Meeting      : Once/week, sometimes running non-Traveller games
> Group Size   : 4-8
> Referees     : 3 (me for Trav, others for Ars Magica, AD&D or whatever
else we feel like running)
> Health       : Vigorous
> Rules Mix    : T4 25%, TNE 5%, MT 30%, CT 25%, House whatever's left over

Group 2
> Location     : Harlow, Essex
> Age          : Various campaigns from 1 year to many years
> Meeting      : Once/week, only occasionally Traveller
> Group Size   : 4-5
> Referees     : 2 (me for Trav, other for AD&D, Call of Chthulu, etc.)
> Health       : Vigorous
> Rules Mix    : As above

Re cyber-enhancements

>I wouldn't want to get punched in the face by an enhanced arm though.

It's more a matter of where one of the female characters (with a bionic
hand) tends to grip her male opponents...

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:11:32 -0500
From: "Andrew Akins" <igor@ames.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS

I can answer most of these questions, I think...

SSDS is my favorite (no, really) design system, WHEN you get the
errata... Without the errata, it blows chunks...

1) Armor
To find the armor USP rating...
Take the armor rating you chose in the design sequence...find the USP value
rating, then multiply by ten. For example, a armor rating of 20 will give
you a USP rating of 10 (20 -> 1 -> 10)


2) Interior Structure
YOu are correct that the rating is based on G-Rating and Hull Size...but
one of the things you can do is rate the hull for a larger G-Rating than
the actual speed of the ship. Thus, even though a ship might have a 2-G
drive, the hull might be rated for 4-Gs. This is for several reasons:
the obvious is that your structure rating is larger, thus you can absorb 
more damage. The other reason is to support upgrades - you might have
a 2-G version of the ship and a 4-G version...in order to use the same
hull, the hull must be rated 4 G.

I "overrate" my hulls a lot for small combat vessels, to increase their
survivability.

As far as loading up on armor or structure...sure, in the grand scheme 
of things, it might be cheap...but it eats up volume. Plus, if you use
realistic thrust...armor is HEAVY. You start putting a great deal of
armor on, and your 4-G drive can really only drive you 2-G...

....of course, you can ignore realistic thrust, in which case you only
lose volume...


+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your  |
| sons be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your |
| daughters be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love     |
| gifts from eminent families that live very far away, and may your  |
| lives be blessed by the beauty that has touched mine.              |
|                    - Number Ten Ox, "Bridge of Birds"              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 11:28:00 EDT
From: Glenn Myers <gem188@ansyspo.ansys.com>
Subject: A gearhead/techie proposal

Hi all,

Gearhead alert!

If  you have never dismantled one of your favorite toys just to see how it 
worked, do yourself a favor and skip this email.

A recent private email exchange with a list member , Jory Earl, got me 
thinking about the following...

What physical problems would the TML gearheads like to see computer modeled? 

I work in the engineering analysis software field for a company which 
produces "Multi-Physics Analysis Software". Our product , ANSYS, can solve 
nearly any physical design problem given enough computer resources and 
modelling effort.

Hypothetical example 1 - Acceleration stresses in starship hull
Given Material properties (density, youngs modulus, etc..) and physical hull 
layout, the stresses involved in a 4-G maneuver could be applied to a 2-G 
Hull.

Hypothetical example 2 - Fusion reactor model
ANSYS has been used to model tokamac reactors. Would anyone on the TML be 
able to come up with a  rough TL-13 fusion power plant design?

My background is Masters Degree, Mechanical engineer. I have completed 
structural, thermal, electrostatic, and impact analysis with this software 
in the past. I am not very familiar with the dynamics or fluid dynamics 
features of the software.
I currently work in the software verification group.

Given the extremely high gearhead coefficient of this post I will be happy 
to communicate through private email.

Thanks,
Glenn
______________________________________________________
Glenn E. Myers
ANSYS Inc.                Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com
275 Technology Drive      Phone: (412) 514-2913
Canonsburg, PA 15317      Fax:   (412) 514-3118
______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:16:00 -0400
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Re: SSDS Armour

The Commander hears a question regarding SSDS and responds:

According to the SSDS errata available at

http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/errata/ssds.errata.html

here is the bit on armour:
>To calculate the armour value which appears in the USP, take the armour 
value >decided upon in step 3 (paras 3 & 4), convert that to a
>     USP value using the chart on page 107, and then multiply the result by 
10. This >gives the value for the USP which is compatible
>     with the rules in T4.

Notice in T4 (QSDS) and the Big Table O' Hulls that all the hull armours are 
by a factor of ten.  The way I do the hull armour is to reverse the above 
mentioned procedure.

If I want a ship with an armour rating of 20, I would divide by 10 to get 2, 
then look on the USD chart for the 'armour value' needed.  In this case it 
is 40 (or more).  Then  I would multi 40 by the volume factor to find out 
how much stuff it takes.  Lets use good old fasioned TL-10 Cystaliron on a 
100ton Wedge:

40 x 1.13(hull volume factor on chart) = 45.2m^3
45.2m^3 x 0.009Mcr(cost of Crystaliron per m^3) = 0.4068Mcr
45.2m^3 x 10t/m^3(mass of Crystaliron per m^3) = 452 tons Mass

This also explains the reason why the merchant and other ships have armour 
ratings of 0.  If the ship has a rating lower than 20, it will be 0 when 
converted to USD.  The Free Trader could have a armour value of 15, strong 
enough to stop bullets and maybe just barely a PGMP splatter, but a ships 
laser will rip through it like a hot kinfe through butter!

Armour for vehicles can be converted this way as well as the "armour value 
chosen" in the begining equates almost the same with vehicle armours.  SSDS 
is the "Childe of FF&S" after all :)  Done this actualy, the results are, if 
you are not inside a grav tank or other heavily armoured vehicle and you are 
hit by a ships laser, even at low power, Sie sind kaput!

Ever since CT I have always enjoyed vaping air-rafts from orbit! ;->

(The Commander gets that insane look on his face, his psychiatrist sees it 
as another Interstellar War flashback and takes him away...)

More insanity to the TML:
Courtesy of X-TEK, subsidiary of Galactic Evil Unlimited, subsidiary of 
Grandfather Cthulhu and those manipulating Hivers and Templars!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:21:47 -0400
From: "Scott Spieker" <scspieker@ncweb.com>
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

>>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:30:57 -0400 (EDT)
>>From: XatoKuom@aol.com
>>Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

>>In a message dated 97-09-22 00:53:05 EDT, you write:

>><<      I think you may be refering to the Maus (Mouse in Deutsch) tank. It
>> was to be a super heavy (150+ tones) tank with a main 150mm gun and an
>>75mm
>> Panther cannon coaxial, plus an assortment of MG's and an AA mount on the
>> turret top (20mm or so). Armor was said to be inexcess of 120mm to the
>> front (at a 30% grade), and unknown on the sides, top, and rear. Speed was
>> to be near 25-35 KPH with a range of about 200KM. Would have been a sight
>> if one did actually get to fight...
>>         Trouble was that there were few bridges in europe that could hold
>> one of these monsters. Just to get it to the front to fight would have been
>> a chore. 
>>  >>

>>Amazingly enough, this is not the tank I was mentioning.  In 1944 designs had
>>been drawn up for the 1,000mt monster I mentioned earlier.  It never, of
>>course, reached production stage as the idea was purely conjectural in
>>nature.  Hitler wanted it built, but the Waffen SS convinced him that more
>>Royal(King) Tigers were needed instead.

>>The largest "production tank" of the was was the JagdTiger tank which carried
>>a 128mm/48(?) calibre main gun and weighed in at a whopping 75mt.  The
>>transmission and powerplant used could barely keep up with the beating and as
>>a result these tanks became little more than glorified mobile pillboxes.

>>Scott Quigg(XatoKuom@aol.com)

	Actually Scott This information is not correct.  The Germans actually
built 3 Maus tanks, as well as had several E-100 Tank hulls under
construction at wars end.  The E-100 was based on the Maus, and in fact
used the same turret with a different main gun.  The Maus tanks while in
the testing stages had been left on the testing grounds with numerous
'soviet hammer and cicle' markings to confuse the American Army Air Force
recon.  If you are stating the heaviest production tank as being the
JagdTiger, then that is correct.  Several other vehicles had been designed
and built that were used for specialty operations that weighed much more
than the E-100 and Maus - for instance the 'Thor' and 'Loki' Gerat -040 and
Gerat-041 seige mortars.  All of this information is spelled out clearly in
the 'Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War II' book.  If you would like
ISBN Numbers and author I can get them - I don't have them with me at the
moment.

	The book is very informative and offers a great deal of information
regarding the history, production number, hull numbers, weight, armor
thickness and angle, gun, radio, crew, etc, etc.

Scott Spieker - Avid Tank fanatic, and Traveller fan.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:38:19 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Guidance for IG Writers

SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> mentioned:

>I agree with your point. IG need a writer's guide. Even just the GDW stuff
>scanned and accessable to authors would be a start, though I would like to
>see some DGP stuff too.

Many months ago I advocated to IG that they create various mailing lists for
IG writers to discuss things, and a 'secure' web source of T4 and previous
'canon' data for writers. Whether these will eventually be created, I have
no idea.

Until a short while ago some of us writers (e.g. those within CORE) were
swapping the draft texts around so everyone knew roughly what was going on,
but now even that has stopped.

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:52:00 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Lunion/Spinward Marches

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

>	If anybody has any background information on Lunion, or who knows
>where it can be found, can they please let me know?
>
>	Thanx...

Here's all I could find:

Lunion         2124: K504 - A995984-D A Hi In Cp     810 Im M3 D   M7 D
	The LSP shipyard here, along with Strouden, is one of the major
shipbuilding points within the Spinward Marches. Excellent workmanship and
level D technology make its products sought after. [Supplement 3]
	The LSP shipyards at Lunion and Strouden are two of the largest
producers of starship hulls in the Marches. They specialize in warships for
the Imperial Navy. [Spinward Marches Campaign, p. 19.]

In the New Era, Lunion progresses to TL 15 thanks to the Regency Industrial
Development Program, so you can bet the planet is technologically
progressive. The Regency Sourcebook also describes the Lunion School of
Economics as being the premiere business school of the Spinward Marches.
Obviously, this reputation would extend back to pre-Collapse times.

Ling Standard Products also remains a force to be reckoned with in the New Era.

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:05:38 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: THUDDD Lives!  (barely...)

At 12:16 AM 9/24/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hi, all,
>
>Many of you are probably wondering what became of the August THUDDD, the
>low-tech SDB.  Well, my hard drive head-crashed...

<tale of woe snipped>

Gee, Craig, maybe your computer and my lymphatic system should go out for a
drink......
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry       dberry@hooked.net |
|     http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
|------------------------------------------|
|  "Avoid small projects, they leave no    |
|   mark on people's memories."            |
|   -Daniel Burnham, SF City Planner, 1906 |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:19:04 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Interstellar Wars Colonization

I have recently renewed my efforts to develop the Interstellar Wars
campaign for my own personal use. One of the things I want to develop is a
guideline of "Settled Worlds" at several crucial points during the IWs.

A general question to the list and Solomani Rim aficionados in particular:

At the outset of the First Interstellar War, what worlds do you think are
settled by the Terrans? By the Vilani?

What would the populations be?

How about after later developments such as the first major Terran victory
over the Vilani after the J-3 drive was developed (can't remember which IW
that was, offhand)?

Best,

Chris Griffen

===================================================
Keeper of the Flame. Traveller player since 1980.

http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/deneb.shtml


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:24:40 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?

At 08:40 PM 9/23/97 -0400, TDRandall@aol.com wrote:
>Anyeay, I noticed an add in the back about a program for various formats
>where you can load in a planet's UWP and it would generate the variables how
>the book defined them (hopefully with some nice output?).  Also implied you
>could feed it in a whole sector's data to do this for the whole sector.

I have been searching for a copy of the Mac version of that program, off
and on.  I suppose it will show up sometime.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 18:09 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Twilight: 2000 & 2300 AD

In-Reply-To: <199709150554.BAA12305@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

Eris,

> What Tw2K is doing on the TML, I don't know, but I enjoyed (still enjoy)
> the game..both versions. ;->  
>  
> I didn't *like* the setting...you weren't supposed to *like* being stuck in
> WWIII and it's aftermath...

One of the points mentioned in several reviews when it was first released was 
that it was *too* nice - the real thing would be much worse. 
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:34:11 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Memories

Kenneth says:
> It was one of those magical moments that happen in role playing.  This
> is what the addiction is all about.  This is why we keep coming
> back--putting our busy lives on hold, hours at a time, for more and more. 

Ah yes. Mem-reez, like the corners of my mind, misty water col<slap>
Sorry.

I remember a friend's Traveller game when I introduced the gauss rifle. I
was the first with books 4-5. We were in a desperate combat, and losing. My
character drew his Gauss Rifle and fired. the GM said, "you showed me this,
what was it, like an autorifle?" "Something like that", I replied. The guy
next to me says "I fire my autorifle, so that is 2 possible hits at 3D6" and
he rolls to hit, another guy says "I fire my laser rifle that's only one hit
but it is 5D6" (smirks). I fire the gauss rifle and say "two targets get hit
by 3 4D6 hits each". They went pale. One player looked at me and said "can I
have one of those?"

Shortly thereafter, everyone had gauss rifles. Then we engaged an enemy
g-Carrier. Our gausses were useless, so I got out my other weapon; a
FGMP-15. Another player asked me if this was deadlier than the gauss, and I
said yes. Then I rolled to hit and asked if I could borrow some dice, as the
weapon did 16D and I only had 4 on me. Their expressions were priceless. I
caused another arms race again later in a diferent campaign but that is
another story

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 11:39:06 -0600
From: Mark <bdmahan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

>Imagine if someone misinterprets
>our wave height/sea state field as being meters instead of feet.  That
>would throw a wrench into the results!  It certainly would be an easier
>world if we were all completely on one (scientific) measurement system. 
>Maybe some year.

I have a hard time inmagining how one could misinterpit a 'M' for a 'Ft' 
or 'yd'.  Weren't the type of measures used with the number, there are 
standard symbols.  If they are used then multiple measurement systems can 
be used.  After the long night I suspect there would be a lot of 
different systems in use, especialy from worlds that regressed down to 
TL0-3.

My center gives way, my right is pushed back, situation excellent, I am 
attacking. - Ferdinand Foch

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:55:33 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?

[snip]
>Anyeay, I noticed an add in the back [of WBH] about a program for various
>formats
>where you can load in a planet's UWP and it would generate the variables how
>the book defined them (hopefully with some nice output?).  Also implied you
>could feed it in a whole sector's data to do this for the whole sector.
>
>Did anyone ever get it?  Did it work?  Did it work well?  Are there copies
>available (hopefully freeware after 7 years?)

Someone else'll have to answer that.

>Oh yes, if this question doesn't generate such an answer: would anyone have
>any other pointers on where I might find computer aids for Traveller
>(prefereably original or MT) specific info?

Well, I just happen to be compiling a comprehensive list of Traveller Web
Sites (still needs lots of work) and can provide some of what you ask for;

Joe Heck's Web Site has an excellent collection, some good some bad;

http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/archive/software/

For single World Building on a Mac at the WBH detail level get Metator from
the above site, Rob Prior's excellent single planet expander.

For PC's, Jo Grant's Library is available at the above site and at;

http://members.nova.org/~sol/core/uploads.htm

I'm not sure, but I think the Core site has the later version.  By Jo's own
admission this DOS program is a bit unstable, but it is also extremely
heavy in detail, generating color surface maps for planets (which are the
same after you go to another planet and come back) giving all the detail
you need to the limits of WBH etc.

Pete







Peter H. Brenton : pbrenton@mit.edu
"Shiela-X where are you"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:18:39 +0000
From: suzd@pop.goodnet.com
Subject: Re: Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

> There is a mystery, however.  I don't know who did the work on the newly
> added sections (continuing the M:0 sourcebook sequence) 9-12.  No offense
> intended to anyone, but if these sections weren't written by Marc Miller,
> it certainly rivals his style.

I'll pass along your kind words to Stu Dollar and Joe Walsh. Its 
always nice to know one's work is appreciated.

Suz 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:18:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Piracy

 
bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
> >[good discussion of anti-piracy by JM removed]
> 
> I think, in general, Traveller astrography would be more interesting if
> there were fewer inhabited/habitable worlds and more systems with 
> only gas giants. This makes warfare more interesting - gas giant refuelling
> is a necessity, fleets can be snuck into enemy territory, supply lines can
> be disrupted - and certainly makes piracy/privateering more important, as 
> there will be lots of merchants doing field refuelling in otherwise-uninhabeted
> systems. If I were to run a military-oriented campaign I'd probably set it in
> such a region. (For example, it could be a region of mostly Population II
> stars, with too few heavy elements to form non-gaseous planets...)

	I agree with you whole-heartedly.  I'd prefer such a setting for 
non-military campaigns as well.  But you wouldn't have to even envoke Pop 
II stars, just change the world design system to one that doesn't 
generate nice, comfy, habitable worlds around every other star.  Make 
those systems that do have planetary systems have a selection of barren 
rocks, venusian hell holes, and gas giants.  Heck, if you wanted to be 
generous, let there be a few worlds with water ice, but no liquid oceans 
for easy dipping.  This makes patrolling all that empty space a lot more 
difficult and GG refueling much more attractive.  The habitable worlds 
would be much fewer and far more special.  Oh yeah, and put some of those 
GGs in real close to their star and inside its 100-d limit, just to be 
nasty ;-)  And a 3-d starmap, definitely a 3-d starmap.
	If I ever do my own campaign setting, this is what it 
would look like.

- -JM

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1870
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 24 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1871



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Pirates
Re: SSDS Armor Help
Mike Peters
re: No Long Range Active Sensors?
Re: Bandage Web site
starship design in T4.1
Re: Live Campaigns
Emperor's Vehicles
CT Covert Fast Courier (LONG)
Re: Magical Moments
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Re: Interstellar Wars Colonization
Andrew Akins
Re: SSDS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:11:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tim Connors <tconnor@pop3.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: Pirates

At 03:00 PM 9/23/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>[good discussion of anti-piracy by JM removed]
>
>I think, in general, Traveller astrography would be more interesting if
>there were fewer inhabited/habitable worlds and more systems with 
>only gas giants. This makes warfare more interesting - gas giant refuelling
>is a necessity, fleets can be snuck into enemy territory, supply lines can
>be disrupted - and certainly makes piracy/privateering more important, as 
>there will be lots of merchants doing field refuelling in otherwise-uninhabeted
>systems. If I were to run a military-oriented campaign I'd probably set it in
>such a region. (For example, it could be a region of mostly Population II
>stars, with too few heavy elements to form non-gaseous planets...)
>
>Bruce
>
        Try TNE.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:14:26 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS Armor Help

Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:
> 
> At 19:05 1997-09-23 +0000, you wrote:
> >For 40 points of armor on this 200 ton hull, it costs Cr318,080?

> First of all I want to make something clear: I am pretty new to Traveller.

Well, I've been playing Traveller since the early 80's, and I can't
figure it out!


> I read these rules quite a few times, and this is the way I understood them
> (and thus use them):
> 
> The armor rating you purchase isn't the one used in the game. It will have
> to be converted into USP rating using the chart on page 107. The USP rating
> is the value used in space combat, the other value is simply there for
> calculation purposses. This means that twice as much armor costs far more
> than twice as much cash, which sounds very logical to me (heavier armor IS
> harder to build, after all).
> 
> In your example, you have bought 40 points of armor. This would convert to
> an armor rating of 2. If you would want an armor rating of 40, you would
> have to buy 47000 points of armor (MUCH more expensive).

Right. I thought of that too.

So, if you go through the calculations, and buy 47000 points of
armor--so that it can be converted to a final USP armor of 40--you
spend...

....a whopping Cr373,744,000!!!!


> If there is anything wrong with this way of thinking, please tell me.


Well, Joe Walsh's Secure Trader on page 32 has 40 points of armor, and
the entire ship only costs Cr88,100,000!


10% Discount or no, armor didn't cost MCr373.4 for that ship.

So, my questions remains.

How much did the armor cost for Joe Walsh's Secure Trader?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:29:27 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Mike Peters

Mike,

I thought that you might be interested in how well your explanation went
over with the player playing the Captain of our vessel...



Steve.Roberts@airliquide.com wrote:
> 
> It's hard to argue with this guy's statement (man I sure wanted some armor
> too).
> 
> However, in one respect, we may not be considering something.  We aren't
> playing in 1997.  Perhaps the advances in space technology hit this area
> too.  For now, I agree with your judgement 100 percent.  However, if you
> ever read anything talking about adding armor to a ship (that didn't have
> armor before) or replacing armor beyond what a ship originally had (if it
> started with 20, got 10 blown off, and added another 20) I think this issue
> should be readdressed.


I'd say pretty good, wouldn't you?


Thanks again for the words.  You saved one grey hair on this GM's
balding head.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:31:35 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: No Long Range Active Sensors?

>Sorry, but I have to disagree. You can format or encode your active signal
>to give you loads of data about a target which just can't be obtained from a
>passive sensor, even given the r^2/r^4 difference in returned signal.

You can get range somewhat more quickly from an active sensor (since you
don't have to solve for it) and radial velocity more precisely (which is
relatively irrelevant) and good spatial resolution in the radial direction
(but not the azimuthal or elevation direction), but that's about it. 
It's very hard to beat the r^2/r^4 dependence...another thing that is hard to
beat is that the most pracitcal wide-field active sensors will use 
radio waves, or possibly millimetre or submillimetre radio - which 
(since resolution scales as wavelength) gives you terrible angular resolution,
so you need very high signal-to-noise and lots of tricks to get a 
good fire control solution.

To take a real world example, the illustrious Simbad Sam informs me that the
1980s SDI airborne laser tests, using radar for targeting, had to cheat
(radar reflectors and maybe even transponders on the target) to get a
position good enough to hit a missile with a laser. The new USAF laser
project has dropped radar in favour of passive IR and LIDAR.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:39:45 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Bandage Web site

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
> You should show your sysadmin the "no DNS..." message.  It means that AOL's
> server is not crossreferenced on your DNS (Domain Name Service) server,
> which should be impossible unless there is something wrong with it.

I figured it out.  It is member.aol.com   not members.aol.com


> Anyway, here is the article;

Thanks!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:38:34 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: starship design in T4.1

So, what is going to be up with starships in T4.1? I'm beginning to gather
from Marc's posts that essentially everything in FFS2 is going to be ignored.
This doesn't necessarily seem like a good decision...Granted, FFS2 is flawed
due to the rushed schedule and the absence of guidance from IG, but there are
a lot of good ideas in there; and people (like me) who are buying it today
are doing so on the assumption that it will *someday* be useful for T4.1.
If I discover that it's another expensive supply of scrap paper, I'll be
somewhat upset. Granted also, as formatted it's somewhat hard to understand -
but the people who designed it are here on the list and would presumably be 
happy to work with Marc to translate it into something simple and useful
for T4.1 (I certainly would be happy to do so with the sensor rules I wrote...)

Marc, could you tell us what your plans are? Are you staying with the FFS-
based stuff in T4, or going back even further? At the very least, even if 
T4.1 abandons FFS2's rules completely, you should include conversion notes
from it into whatever system you settle on, so FFS2 owners aren't completely
left in the dark...

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:56:23 -0400
From: "John Watts" <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns

Location: Ringgold, GA
Age: 2 yrs
Meeting: Every Thursday, spot on 7 :)
Refs: Me
Health : Quite well
Rules: Odd CT, MT, T4 mix
Setting: Daibei/Reavers Deep area.  Another facet of a a now 10 yr old
Rebellion setting.  Presently 1120.







It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed.
My hands begin to shake.  The shakes are a warning.
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:00:20 -0400
From: "John Watts" <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: Emperor's Vehicles

Does anyone know when this is going to come out?  The web site says it is
out already, but I've heard no mention of it here and my FLGS doesnt have
it yet.

What gives?

John

PS: Ya know its a bad sign when the advert on the web site refers to Aliens
Vol 1 as being a book about " Aslan and the Varge ".  Is this an example of
the editing of this book?








It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed.
My hands begin to shake.  The shakes are a warning.
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:57:59 -0500
From: Matt McLaughlin <mkm@umr.edu>
Subject: CT Covert Fast Courier (LONG)

After seeing the discussion of Lhyd drop tanks in CT, I decided to dig
out and post this little design.  The deck plans should be on my web
page in a few days.  Comments are invited.

I designed this ship for a CT campaign set in the Spinward Marches
~1107.  It uses the then recently developed technology of drop tanks to
give it long legs for high-priority low-volume courier duty.  The
optimal use of this design is based on the CT assumption that jumps can
be made from a deep space hex, an assumption which I am well aware is
not universally accepted, but which I believe is canon(tm).  

The design takes advantage of a quirk of the CT system which, when
drives from both Book 2 and High Guard are used, gives a significant
improvement in how effectively space can be used.  That is, Book 2
maneuver drives are much smaller than in HG, while HG power plants and
J-drives are smaller than Book 2 drives.  HG says Book 2 'standard'
drives can be used without specifying whether or not you can mix and
match them.  In My Universe (tm), you can.  Since it only applies to 
smaller ships which can use the 'standard' drives, it's not a major 
thing and helps make up for the 20 ton minimum bridge size on the 
smaller ships.  I also cheated a little bit by creating a Model 4/bis 
computer (allowing J-5) and a low volume fuel purification unit.  

WEASEL Class Covert Fast Courier
100 Ton
Classic Traveller 

This ship is a radical modification of a 100 ton type 'S' Scout ship. 
It's purpose is to carry small packages quickly and securely between
relatively distant star systems with a minimum of attention.  It is able
to bypass normal routes, taking weeks or even months off of normal
message delivery times.  It may be used for one-way messages, taking a
slower round-about return course if the required drop tanks are not
available at the destination, or as a two-way link between stations
supplied with the necessary tanks.  Little is spared by way of cost in
this design.  Indeed, the only reason it is based on the Type 'S' is the
low profile which this common vessel projects.  The high price
associated with the high tech components makes this a rather uncommon
design.

A standard Type 'S' scout is obtained and gutted.  The original bridge,
computer, air raft, and instrumentation space are retained.  The
engineering space is the same, although it's contents are completely
changed. Most of the remainder of the ship has been redesigned.

The existing drives are replaced with custom jump drive and power plant
(High Guard) and standard maneuver drive B (Book 2).  The jump drive is
outfitted with long storage capacitors which permit use of Lhyd drop
tanks for extended range operations.  A non-standard fuel purification
unit is added (taking up 2 tons previously used for fuel space) to
ensure high quality fuel to charge the special capacitors which are
necessary for use with drop tanks.  The ship is capable of Jump-5 and
4-G acceleration, although there is only sufficient internal fuel
capacity for a Jump-3.  See below for more information.

The hull is substantially reinforced and armored to factor 6 to
withstand the increased acceleration and provide protection for
sensitive cargo (as well as the crew).  This results in a loss of 7 more
tons of the original fuel storage. 

The original bridge and Model 1/bis computer are retained, and a
specially designed Model 4/bis computer is installed in the
instrumentation bay.  The Model 1/bis is typically reprogrammed as a
data bank for information transfer.

Interior accommodations have been significantly reduced.  Directly aft
of the bridge are three small staterooms to port. Each has a normal bed
with storage below.  A dropdown bunk above each bed allows double
occupancy if necessary.  There is a common area to starboard which
includes a compact but well-outfitted galley and entertainment system. 
Despite the small size of the living area, (normally considered adequate
for 1.5 full-size staterooms), there is sufficient life support
installed to support 6 persons if full health and comfort.  It is
expected that the crew will have adequate periods of shore leave between
missions.  It should be noted that a one-way mission could easily result
in weeks in deep space.  A standard low berth is installed and may be
used for prisoner transfer, among other things.  An emergency low berth
is also provided.

The original fuel storage has been reduced to 25.83 tons, of which 5.33
tons are allotted to the power plant. About two-thirds of the original
crew space has been converted to fuel storage and cargo space.  A cargo
door on the underside of the vessel allows access to the cargo hold. 
This space holds a custom-fit collapsible fuel tank with a capacity of
9.5 tons, making a total of 30 tons available for jump.  When collapsed,
it leaves 7 tons of space for cargo.  Access to this space is normally
by the original hatch to the rear, although a concealed panel allows
access from the crew's living area. 

The standard 3 ton cargo bay has been divided into a 1-ton secure
compartment with armored bulkheads and door and a 2 ton normal
compartment.  This makes for a maximum of 10 tons of cargo if the
collapsible tank is not used, or 12.5 tons if it is not carried. 

Armament is at the option of the owner.  An empty triple turret with
fire control is provided and 3 EP's are available for weapons.  A mix of
beam weapons and sandcasters is commonly used for optimal defense.

DROP TANKS

Two auxiliary jump fuel tanks have been designed for use with the Weasel
class, a 33.3 ton drop tank which can be carried with the ship or
dropped, and a 50 ton booster tank which can be used only once and
cannot be carried into jump.  

The 33.3 ton  drop tank costs 43.3 kCr and increases the total ship's
tonnage to 133.3 tons.  The installed drives allow for 3 G maneuver and
J-4 in this configuration.  Note that J-4 requires 20 tons of fuel from
internal storage in addition to the drop tank capacity.  This allows J-4
without use of the collapsible tank.  If the tanks are dropped after
charging the capacitors, a J-5 can be performed using 16.7 tons of fuel
from internal storage.

The 50 ton booster tank costs 60.0 kCr and can be used with or without
the 33.3 ton tank, increasing  the ship's total tonnage to 150 or 183.3
tons.  Due to the awkward geometry of these configurations, the ship
cannot exceed 2 G acceleration while carrying the booster tank.  It also
cannot jump while carrying the booster tank.  Upon emptying and
releasing the booster tank, the Weasel can perform a J-4 with the 33.3
ton drop tank (133.3 tons) or a J-5 without (100 tons).

A variety of sequences of jumps can be performed, depending on which
auxiliary tank(s) is(are) used.  The following list gives the possible
jump sequences for various tank combinations.  B = 50 ton booster tank,
D = 33.3 ton drop tank, and C = 9.5 ton collapsible tank.  DROP
indicates the drop tank is discarded, while NODROP indicates it is
retained.  The total distance traveled in parsecs (psc), time in jump
in weeks (wk), jump fuel remaining, and cargo space available are listed
after the jump sequence.  Note that for multi-jump sequences,
conservation of power plant fuel (adequate for 4 weeks normal operation)
may be in order.  Cargo space when not using the collapsible tank
assumes it is carried collapsed.  If not carried, add 2.5 tons.

TANKS      JUMP SEQUENCE   DISTANCE   TIME   FUEL LEFT    CARGO
B+D+C    J4, DROP, J5, J1   10 psc,   3 wk,   0.0 tons,   3 tons
B+D+C    J4, NODROP, J4      8 psc,   2 wk,   6.7 tons,   3 tons
B+D      J4, DROP, J5        9 psc,   2 wk,   0.5 tons,  10 tons
B+D      J4, NODROP, J3*     7 psc,   2 wk,  10.5 tons,  10 tons
B+C      J5, J3              8 psc,   2 wk,   0.0 tons,   3 tons
D+C      DROP, J5, J1        6 psc,   2 wk,   3.3 tons,   3 tons
D+C      NODROP, J4*         4 psc,   1 wk,  10.0 tons,   3 tons
D        DROP, J5            5 psc,   1 wk,   3.8 tons,  10 tons
D        NODROP, J4          4 psc,   1 wk,   0.5 tons,  10 tons
C        J3                  3 psc,   1 wk,   0.0 tons,   3 tons
Bare     J2                  2 psc,   1 wk,   0.5 tons,  10 tons
           *additional J1 possible if DROP, but wasteful

SPECIFICATIONS:
        ITEM                Tons       Cost     EP     UPP
    Size                    100         10       -      1
    Config:  Wedge            0          2       -      1
    Drives
       Jump 5 (4@133 Td)      6.67      26.67    -      5 (4)
       Man-B (4, 3@133 Td)    3          8       -      4 (3)
       Pwr Plant 5 (4@133)    5.33      16      5.33    5 (4)
    Fuel
       Power Plant            5.33       0       -
       Jump                  20.5        0       -  
       Collapsible            9.5        0.03    -
       Drop tank connections  0          0       -
       Scoops                 0          0.1
       Purif. (100 ton cap)   2          0.05    -
    Bridge                   20          0.5     -
    Mod 1 bis                 1          4       0     (R)
    Mod 4 bis                 4         38       2      U
    Armor factor 6            7          6.3     -      6
    Weapons
       Triple turret          1          0       -       
       Beam Laser, 1 ea       -          0.5     1      2(x1)
       Sandcaster, 2 ea       -          0.5     0      3(x2)
    Staterooms - 3            6          1.5     0
    Low berth 
       Emergency - 1          1          0.1     0 
       Normal - 1             0.5        0.05
    Air raft                  4          0.6     -
    Cargo
       Normal                 2          0       -
       Armored (factor D)     1          
          Armor               0.16       0.25
          Security system     0.01       0.25
    TOTALS                  100        115.40    3
- -----------------------------------------------------
    Architect (1%)                       1.15
- -----------------------------------------------------
    FINAL COST                         116.55

    Drop Tank    33.3 tons, 43.3 kCr, can be used in jump
    Booster Tank 50 tons, 60 kCr, must be dropped to jump
    
High Guard Statistics

  Without drop tank:
XQ-617 Weasel  CQ-11545U1-630000-20000-0   MCr 115.65    100 Tons
    batteries bearing      2     1                         Crew=3
            batteries      2     1                          TL 15
Passengers=3* Low=1 Cargo=3(12.5) Fuel=35.33(25.83) EP=5.3 Agil=2

  With drop tank:
XQ-617 Weasel  CQ-11434U1-630000-20000-0   MCr 115.69    133 Tons
    batteries bearing      2     1                         Crew=3
            batteries      2     1                          TL 15
Passengers=3* Low=1 Cargo=3(12.5) Fuel=68.67(59.17) EP=5.3 Agil=1

  *Non-commercial level accommodations.  
  Cargo and fuel assume collapsible tank used. If collapsed, use ()
values.

  Statistics with the booster tank are not listed, as this is a
temporary configuration.  The main parameters with booster tank are J-0,
M-2, Agil=2 with or without drop tank.

NOTES:
XQ (Express Decoy in HG) was the best type designation I could come up
with.  Alternative suggestions welcomed.
  
The listed prices are for built from scratch.  Although built from a
Type S, I assume that no significant savings are realized, mostly due to
the difficulty of retrofitting the hull with armor. The HG (100 ton
wedge) hull price is used.  The standard B2 hull would subtract 12MCr
from the cost.

The weapons mix is selected to optimize defense; this ship is designed
to run, not fight.  Other options are available, however, including up
to three lasers or one energy weapon and a laser, missile rack, or
sandcaster.  The fusion gun/sandcaster option is fairly popular, giving
a good close-in punch against missles or approaching vessels.  Three
EP's are available, but this does affect agility.

The crew accommodations reflect my belief (based on experience in the US
Submarine Force) that the standard accommodations in Traveller are
generous, and that personnel can be found to crew a vessel with much
more limited space.  I use full price for three staterooms to reflect
the cost of life support and better quality to make up for loss of
space.

I 'created' a Model 4 bis computer (as well as a 3 bis) by extrapolating
from the normal models:
  Model  MCr    Tons    Cap   TL  EP  UPP
   1       2      1     2/5    5   0   1
   1 bis   4      1     4/0    6   0   R
   2       9      2     3/6    7   0   2
   2 bis  18      2     6/0    8   0   S
   3      18      3     5/9    9   1   3
  *3 bis  25      3     9/0    A   1   T
   4      30      4     8/15   A   2   4
  *4 bis  38      4    15/0    B   2   U
   5      45      5    12/25   B   3   5
     etc . . .
  *extrapolated non-standard models

The HG rules state that fuel purification plants can be no smaller than
one-fifth the size, price, and capacity of the listed values.  At TL F,
this would be 3 tons, 200 ton capacity, and 30 kcr. I stretched this a
bit by creating a smaller but less efficient and more expensive model at
2 tons, 100 ton capacity, and 50 kcr.  Every ton counts in this ship.

The armored cargo space is surrounded with hull armor at factor 13. 
This is calculated at 1.16 tons armored to factor 13, which requires
0.16 tons armor and leaves 1 ton for cargo.  An additional 250 kCr is
invested in a security system.

I don't remember where I found the rules for collapsible fuel tanks.  I
know I read them somewhere, along with those for temporary 'bladder'
type tanks.  Probably an old JTAS.  If anyone happens to know, I'd
appreciate the info.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:05:41 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Magical Moments

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> 
> Like when Conrad Smit jumped out of the rear doors of the players' ship
> Venturer, hanging onto the cargo crane. Jumped onto a spinning, wrecked
> Navy fighter which was on a one-way plunge down into the atmosphere. Smit
> grabbed the unconscious pilot, held onto the crane, and jumped clear of the
> fighter to be winched aboard. One wrong roll and he's toast, but that's
> true heroics.

Heck!  This sounds like Air Force One!  You could make a modern day
action-adventure out of that!

> I'm pretty tough on players - they don't die very often (oh, sorry. I meant
> CHARACTERS) but they suffer plenty of damage and the players know that I
> never pull punches - dead is dead. So they've learned not to take stupid
> chances, to treat guns with respect, and to fight smart.

I hear ya.  Me too.

And, I'm pretty faithful to the things I roll behind the screen or in
between games.  Recently, we had a couple of characters go to Aramis. 
One of the characters, the ship's Captain, is a mafia type in hiding. 
He's actually a Baron, from the planet Tureded, which in my campaign,
with no law level, is a hot bed of these giant family houses who control
the black market in the area.

House Praygor, the Captain's house, was decimated about 10 months ago by
the union of two Houses, House Jade-London.

The Jadist men have been on Praygor's tail since the start of the
campaign (1.7 years real time, 8 months game time).

Praygor make the mistake of going somewhere he's been before--Aramis.  I
roll to see if they pick him up at the starport (there's word out on the
street that there is a reward for his head of over MCr1).  Yes, they do.

I follow them around town, then, just as they get back to the starport,
I roll, and I loose him.

I kept the tail on his friend, Frank, which explains who the bad guys
were in that last post where I explained the scene where Frank found the
shotgun.

All the while, Praygor, the main guy they are after, is snug in the ship
he came in.  He never leaves the starport after that, and the public
news channel starts reporting on this massacre at this local bar.

All of this, just because I missed a doggone roll.  My target was
Praygor, not Frank.

Oh well.  I rolled. I keep it.

> There's no heroism without the feeling of real danger, so I supply plenty
> of danger!

Exactly.  That's why I do so many rolls in my game.  Big things happen
with the roll of a die.  Sometimes I'll skew it--beat me by two, or
something like that.  Sometimes it's 50-50.

> And occasionally, I get to bury a player. (sorry. CHARACTER).

I know.  We've been through plenty of NPC's, but, until recently, we
have had all the original characters who started the campaign a year and
a half ago.

And, we've been through some real dangers.

On Aramis, we broke into the Leedor Museum.

On Natoko, they broke into the secure communications facility in the
Tukera building to delete the message from Aramis, wanting them for the
crime they committed there.

On Patinir, we fought TL 16 androids on a mining asteroid base.

On Pysadi, we've fought unknown aliens being used by the Zhodani for
forward intel in preparation for the Fifth Frontier War.

And--GET THIS.

Finally on the planet of Pysadi, two characters try to go harvest some
howood in the small town of Itzeny on the other side of the planet.

They are in the wilderness, so I made some animal encounter charts.

And after going through all of that above--blasting off of Aramis,
fighting Tukera guards on Natoko, barely escaping a mining base as it's
fusion reactor blows the asteroid to bits, and fighting never before
seen aliens on a deep-system science station--the first character in our
group to bite it is done in by a randomly generated Pysadian animal!

After living though all that bloodshed and flying lead, he was mauled to
death!

What a way to go.  Kinda like Patton.


Kenneth.

> PS: What does 'LOL!' mean? I'm still pretty new to Netiquette or whatever
> the hell you call it!

"Laugh Out Loud", or "Lots of Laughs".  It means I thought it was funny.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:26:52 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

At 11:39 AM 9/24/97 -0600, Mark wrote:
>>Imagine if someone misinterprets
>>our wave height/sea state field as being meters instead of feet.  That
>>would throw a wrench into the results!  It certainly would be an easier
>>world if we were all completely on one (scientific) measurement system. 
>>Maybe some year.
>
>I have a hard time inmagining how one could misinterpit a 'M' for a 'Ft' 
>or 'yd'.

It is dark.  A storm is in progress.  You are tired, and on bridge watch.
Yu glance at a guage that shows seas state, and your eyes pick out the 10
on the display.  You do not notice that large Ft.

This is why many military helicopters have all the gauges at a strange
angle - they are set up so that "proper operation" puts all of the needles
at 45 degrees.  Anything deviating from that is easy to pick out by eye.

Scott

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:23:57 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Interstellar Wars Colonization

At 09:19 AM 9/24/97 -0700, Chris Griffen wrote:
>At the outset of the First Interstellar War, what worlds do you think are
>settled by the Terrans? By the Vilani?

The Terrans had settled very few worlds, imho.  I looked through an old
copy of Solomani Rim, and picked a very small set of them, since they
contacted the Vilani at very close range.  On the other hand, I decided
that earth never suffered a population crash, so that they had billions and
billions of people all over the solar system.

IMHO, the Vilani colonization policy discouraged progress beyond TL9, but
encouraged progress up to it.  They kept all shipyards with significant
productive capacity either at TL 9, or in a few selected Naval bases.  This
kept regional governors from wanting to revolt - the home fleet could crush
anyone, given time to arrive.  Select worlds were at TL10, but development
of TL11 military and space technologies were discouraged.

The best way to do this, in my canon, is to limit the population.  This
way, the few people far beyond the tails of the distribution can be
located, and carted off to the core Vilani worlds which were at TL11.  In
order to have the Empire run efficiently, they made sure that any settled
world was within J1 of about 100 million people, but discouraged billions
of people on any world that did not have a Naval base and an R&D lab.

This meant, IMHO, that at the outbreak of the ISW, there were a whole bunch
of Vilani-colonized worlds at various tech levels between about 5 and 10,
with the vast majority at TL9, and the populations at ~50 million.

I am playing it that the 3I has inherited the same policies, but that when
they reach late 1100, the standard TL has become TL12, and they have tried
to put more worlds at roughly 150M, so that any seven worlds form a good
combination that can maintain high tech trade.  This meshes well with J2
drives, as one would expect something like ten worlds to be within J2 of
any other world in a settled area.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:01:23 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Andrew Akins

Andrew Akins wrote:
> 
> I can answer most of these questions, I think...
> 
> SSDS is my favorite (no, really) design system, WHEN you get the
> errata... Without the errata, it blows chunks...

Thanks for the post.

Where do I get the errata?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:06:44 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS

Andrew Akins wrote:

> 1) Armor
> To find the armor USP rating...
> Take the armor rating you chose in the design sequence...find the USP value
> rating, then multiply by ten. For example, a armor rating of 20 will give
> you a USP rating of 10 (20 -> 1 -> 10)

Ahh.  Gotcha.


> 2) Interior Structure

> I "overrate" my hulls a lot for small combat vessels, to increase their
> survivability.
> 
> As far as loading up on armor or structure...sure, in the grand scheme
> of things, it might be cheap...but it eats up volume. Plus, if you use
> realistic thrust...armor is HEAVY. You start putting a great deal of
> armor on, and your 4-G drive can really only drive you 2-G...

OK, so your limit in armor is volume.  And, the extra weight put on will
require you to get a bigger drive in the design sequence.

It makes sense now.

Thank you, oh so much.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1871
***********************************
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 24 1997   Volume 1997 : Number 1872



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: SSDS Armour
Re: Memories
Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?
re:World Builder's Handbook - program?
Re: FF&S2 Question
Re: SSDS Question (fwd)
Re: Mike Peters
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Pirates
re: No Long Range Active Sensors?
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1866
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Re: Pirates
Re: PIRATES RULE !!
Re: Live Campaigns
Re: races info wanted
Re: Spaceports
Re: Guidance for IG Writers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:12:13 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS Armour

Bill Prankard wrote:
> 
> The Commander hears a question regarding SSDS and responds:
> 
> According to the SSDS errata available at
> 
> http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/errata/ssds.errata.html
> 
> here is the bit on armour:


Hail to the Commander!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:30:30 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Memories

Glenn Crawford wrote:
> I remember a friend's Traveller game when I introduced the gauss rifle. I
> was the first with books 4-5. We were in a desperate combat, and losing. My
> character drew his Gauss Rifle and fired. the GM said, "you showed me this,
> what was it, like an autorifle?" "Something like that", I replied. The guy
> next to me says "I fire my autorifle, so that is 2 possible hits at 3D6" and
> he rolls to hit, another guy says "I fire my laser rifle that's only one hit
> but it is 5D6" (smirks). I fire the gauss rifle and say "two targets get hit
> by 3 4D6 hits each". They went pale. One player looked at me and said "can I
> have one of those?"

I looked at this and thought to myself, "Self, this is a pretty amusing
story. I'm glad he included it."

> Shortly thereafter, everyone had gauss rifles. Then we engaged an enemy
> g-Carrier. Our gausses were useless, so I got out my other weapon; a
> FGMP-15. 

Then I got this far on his second paragraph, and I really started
laughing!

Another player asked me if this was deadlier than the gauss, and I
> said yes. Then I rolled to hit and asked if I could borrow some dice, as the
> weapon did 16D and I only had 4 on me.

Now, I'm rolling on the floor!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:50:09 -0600 (MDT)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?

 
[snipped note on how actives won't work well for long ranges]

> Sorry, but I have to disagree. You can format or encode your active signal
> to give you loads of data about a target which just can't be obtained from a
> passive sensor, even given the r^2/r^4 difference in returned signal.
 
You get distance (travel time of a ping). You get radial motion
(doppler shift of ping). RA and declination (postition on sky). You
can image with it on the order of a wavelenth, but you can image
with passives as well. I'm sure there are a couple more exotic
things (?) that I can't think of off the top of my head
(polarization changes?) but it isn't all that great. Passives tell
you all but range, and you get that via simple trig. Radial motion
can be had by having a passive look for shifted spectral lines
(emission or absorbtion) not to mention 2 triangulations in
succession. Frankly, I don't see why radar is all that useful at
long ranges since it does little more, but will announce you to
passives farther away.

> Also, I think your c-speed weaponry declaration seems to assume that your
> sensor is attached directly to the weapon (thus as long as it points in the
> right direction the range is irrelevant), whereas a large number of sensors
> will be quite detached from the weapons and used for non-weapon guidance.

I think the assumption is that a ship will use its sensors in an
intergrated way (though there will be some dedicated FC sensors,
most sensors can be used for Fire Control). The real point is that
at *long* ranges (what we are discussing) the lag to the target
makes any benefits of radar (instantaneous data on radial velocity,
for example) moot since the weapon travel time vastly exceeds any
difference in the time it takes to build up the data with a passive
sensor.

> Without the ability to resolve in all three dimensions you can't
> *efficiently* map the location of each ship in an opponents' battle fleet.

You need 2 observations to get z with a passive.  One with a radar.
But the radar has to wait twice as long since the pulse has to go
both ways, so you could just look twice in the same perion with the
passive and have the same data (ships will move many kms in the time
interval so you get a decent baseline).

If two or more ships in *your* fleet are datalinked, then they can
observe at the same time. Might be neat to make rules for a sensor
ship that acts as a clearinghouse for ssensor data in a task
force...

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:19:26 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:World Builder's Handbook - program?

TDRandall wrote:

>Oh yes, if this question doesn't generate such an answer: would anyone have
>any other pointers on where I might find computer aids for Traveller
>(prefereably original or MT) specific info?

You want a copy of Rob Prior's Metator, and a Mac to run it on. You can
download it from:

http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/software.html

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:55:53 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Question

>On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:11:35 +0000 Kenneth Bearden
><dreamer@brokersys.com> writes:
>>For those of you with FF&S2...
>>
>>Is there a section, like chapter 12 in the TNE version of FF&S, that
>>deals with cybernetic implants?

	We intended to put one in, but ran out of time and space. It was set aside
for a hypothetical volume 2, but I'm beginning to question whether that'll
ever happen ... and if anybody would be interested. I just came back, and
I've already seen things that lead me to think Marc is ignoring FF&S2 for
Yet Another Ship Design System. Which will completely blow the flame out
for me. It's already flickering pretty badly.

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:43:58 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: SSDS Question (fwd)

At 10:17 pm 09/23/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Moin Kenneth Bearden,
>
>>  I noticed that armor is not handled like it was in High Guard where 
>> your armor factor cannot be larget than the ship's TL.  And, I 
>> noticed that some ships have some incredibly high armor values--like 
>> 60.  It seems these ships will keep on coming no matter what you 
>> throw at them.
>
>	imho armor in T4 is broken :

	Yes.

>	The hull (armor) has to be minimum 10*G rating in FFS terms.
>
>	If I asume that FFS hull is T4 armor, I'm wrong
>	- there are several ships with 0 armor (they dont have a hull ;-)

	It's not.

>	If I asume that the FFS hull is converted by the BR table, I'm wrong
>	- the scout would have a 500er hull.

	Not this, either

>	If I asume that the FFS hull is converted and multiplied by 10, ...

	This is the correct answer. That is, it's what was added on when the
combat system required a "structure" number that could be quickly consumed
in combat ...

>	- hand wave about the Gig or the Light Fighter, add a third rule.
>	- what about the Ships Boat 6G should have 60 hull converted to 20 ?
>	- the raw "military landing ship" would have a mass over 10000 tons
>	  excluding anything besides hull&engine. So the powerplant of 750MW
>	  would badly move the ship with 2G.

	Ignore all the ship designs in "Starships." People on the list slaved long
and hard over them, only to have many of the actual designs ignored and the
numbers made up from thin air.

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:10:08 -0500
From: Matt McLaughlin <mkm@umr.edu>
Subject: Re: Mike Peters

Replacing blown away armor shouldn't be a major problem, since it's a
matter of replacing/repairing previously existing hull and interior
structure.  The big thing with ADDING armor, as I see it, is the
requirement for substantial reinforcement of internal structure along
with the thickening of the hull.  This essentially requires a complete
rebuild of existing structure. 

Matt

8><

> > 
> > However, in one respect, we may not be considering something.  We aren't
> > playing in 1997.  Perhaps the advances in space technology hit this area
> > too.  For now, I agree with your judgement 100 percent.  However, if you
> > ever read anything talking about adding armor to a ship (that didn't have
> > armor before) or replacing armor beyond what a ship originally had (if it
> > started with 20, got 10 blown off, and added another 20) I think this issue
> > should be readdressed.
> 

8><

>-----------------------------------------------------<
Matt McLaughlin    MS Candidate, Nuc Eng, U of MO-Rolla
mkm@umr.edu              http://www.umr.edu/~mkm
    One of these days I'll get a real .sig . . .
>-----------------------------------------------------<

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:35:34 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

David P. Summers writes:
>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>

>>Good point. I hadn't considered that. But it won't be enough. If piracy is
>>a concern, merchant ships will be assigned arrival and departure slots that
>>will keep them far enough from each other for a patrol ship to intercept 
>>anyone who deviated from his assigned slot.
> 
>You can't have arrival slots since you can't communicate faster than
>you can travel you can't arrange for people to be expecting you (except
>the send whole 'nother ship, though this might be another way that 
>jump torps could fundamentally change things, but we won't get into 
>that :-)  Also, you have interplanetary travel and a ship could easily
>pose as ship arriving, departing, or passing by the planet on an
>interplanetary trip.

Here's how it would work: You designate a fairly large sphere a bit outside
the jump limit as the arrival area. All ships know that they have to arrive
within that area (It's the law). You have as many patrol ships as the traffic 
warrants stationed there. When a ship arrives it is given a place in a queue 
and told to wait. While the ship is waiting it is inspected by the patrol.
Any ship with weapons have them deactivated. Once the 'Orbital Guard' has
made sure of the ship's identity and general harmlessness it is allowed to
proceed down to the surface.

I suppose a pirate might try to hijack the inspecting patrol ship...
  
>>Which would be about 12 ships if you really wanted to cover the entire
>>sphere. But there would be no need for that. Just an arrival area and
>>a departure area.
> 
>Well, not all ships are going to be using the same departure and exit
>areas.  In fact, it the ships that are not near the usual spots, and
>are hence off by themselves.

If piracy is a problem then ships will use the designated arrival and
departure areas. Losing a few hours may be distressing for a merchant,
but not nearly as distressing as losing a cargo (Or getting a thumping
fine for violating regulations).
 
>>Oh sure. There are plenty of worlds in the Traveller Universe that can't
>>afford even one ship. But there are a number of worlds that can afford
>>hundreds of ships to take up the slack.
> 
>Well, Regina has to have a dozen patrols just for the main world (and
>in fact, you want them in twos or threes since you don't want to make
>sure that they will be able to out gun the pirate).  

A world like Regina will have a lot more than a few paltry 400 T patrol
ships. 70% of its naval budget goes to system defenses. That's all those
orbital fortresses and cruiser-sized SDBs that has to hang around anyway
to prevent Mr. Zho from coming calling. They should be able to deal with
a pirate or two while they're waiting. 

>And then you are going to need ships to spell them.  And then you are going 
>to have to patrol all the other inhabited worlds and also the gas giants.  

The other worlds, yes, the Gas Giants, no. Splitting your naval strength
in two or three is simply an invitation to be defeated in detail.

>Then Regina has to spend money on it's contribution to the Imperial Navy
>(which, for a rich world, will be significant).  

30% of their naval budget, half for subsector forces, half for regular
forces.

>Then you have to convince them to spare a dozens of ships to guard each 
>of all those fringe marginal planets.

They could well spare them, but they won't have to. That's one of the
things the Imperial Navy will do for them.

>>Oh, so far I have only calculated with about 1/1000th of the naval budget
>>going to piracy suppression. If you assume that the rest of the fleet 
>>will protect the big worlds, you can use all those patrol ships to cover
>>the worlds without ships of their own.
> 
>Well, I'm not sure what you are using for your calculation of the
>naval budget.  

TCS figures. Cr500 per citizen per year. Naval strength is equivalent to
10 times that (ship maintenance in TCS costs 10% of the ship's cost
annually, and includes everything from recruitment posters to pensions).
So a planet with 10 billion people will have a naval budget of 5,000,000
MCr and a navy of 50,000,000 MCr. 1/1000th of that is 50,000 MCr and a
400 T patrol ship costs, what, about 100 MCr? (that figure be somewhat 
off, I don't have the right books with me). That would be about 500 patrol
ships  --  sorry, only 350, since they pay 30% of their budget to the
Imperial Navy. 

The new PE rules will change things around a bit, but any way you slice it,
10 billion people can afford to support quite a few ships.

>But the numbers of ships I see it as taking, and the minor costs the 
>piracy causes the Imperium to suffer, I don't see it as being a big 
>worthwhile.

It's my impression that most governments don't like pirates. Perhaps they
resent the competition. Historically, whenever pirates have flourished, the 
reason has been the authorities' lack of the capability to restrain them, 
not their lack of will to do so. I believe the first war the US fought was 
one to stop another government from extorting money from passing US 
merchantmen. And with the kind of resources the Imperium commands they DO 
have the capability to restrain piracy. That's kind of my main point. They
can do it if they want to. To say that they wouldn't want to is IMO utterly 
and completely implausible.

John Lansford writes:

>>If piracy is a concern, merchant ships will be assigned arrival and 
>>departure slots that will keep them far enough from each other for a 
>>patrol ship to intercept anyone who deviated from his assigned slot.

>For departures pehaps, but not for arrivals. There's no way a planet
>can know who or what is coming there, because everything takes a week
>to jump. Of course, neither does a pirate know what's arriving...
 
See above. Everybody aims for an area withing the range of a patrol ship.
it dosen't matter if you arrive next to a pirate, because the pirate
wouldn't dare do anything while he is under the guns of the proud ships
of the Limit Guard.

>How do you get only 12 ships are needed to patrol such an enormous
>sphere? Has the weapon ranges increased so much that this number is
>all that's necessary?

Well, someone else did those calculations and I won't defend them. But,
as I said, you don't need to defend the whole shell, so even if the
figure is wrong, it dosen't matter.
 
>>Oh sure. There are plenty of worlds in the Traveller Universe that can't
>>afford even one ship. But there are a number of worlds that can afford
>>hundreds of ships to take up the slack.
> 
>What's in it for them to do this, though? If there's no benefit, no
>one's going to help out of the goodness of their hearts.

What's in it for a police officer rushing to stop a robbery in progress?




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:51:07 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Pirates

Michael Koehne writes:
>Gas giants have a much to high strategic value to allow traders to use 
>them. Having a own fleet at the gas giant is better than leaving refuling 
>posibilities for an intruder, or offering him to mine the GGs. 

OTOH keeping your defensive forces together around your mainworld is a lot
better than splitting it up in two or three or four or five, allowing an
enemy to defeat you with one half or one third or one fourth or one fifth 
of the forces he would otherwise need.

>In TNE some GGs are mined anyway, if you dont send the right signal while 
>tanking, and are detected by a mine, the mine will send 1d6 missiles. Other 
>mines have a short range meson gun, and acting as a slowboat in the gas 
>giant athmosshere. The occurence of a mined gas giant in M0 should be more 
>seldom, but can be a common and cheap method for a pocket empire in the 
>wilds which can not afford more than a dozen Tl10 SDBs for their half 
dozen systems.

I can't argue specifically against this, because I don't know just what
assumptions you're making about the price and area covered by a mine, but
I reccomend you decide on how much a mine would cost, how big an area it
would be able to cover, and how long it would last before failing and
then work out how many you need to cover an entire Gas Giant. I suspect
you will find that it is not so cheap after all.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:56:44 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: re: No Long Range Active Sensors?

At 01:31 PM 9/24/97 -0700, (Bruce Alan Macintosh) wrote:
>
>>Sorry, but I have to disagree. You can format or encode your active signal
>>to give you loads of data about a target which just can't be obtained from a
>>passive sensor, even given the r^2/r^4 difference in returned signal.
>
>You can get range somewhat more quickly from an active sensor (since you
>don't have to solve for it) and radial velocity more precisely (which is
>relatively irrelevant) and good spatial resolution in the radial direction
>(but not the azimuthal or elevation direction), but that's about it. 
>It's very hard to beat the r^2/r^4 dependence...another thing that is hard to
>beat is that the most pracitcal wide-field active sensors will use 
>radio waves, or possibly millimetre or submillimetre radio - which 
>(since resolution scales as wavelength) gives you terrible angular
resolution,
>so you need very high signal-to-noise and lots of tricks to get a 
>good fire control solution.

The main problem with a non coherent form of an active(radar) is that the
higher the frequency the greater the detail, the lower the frequency the
longer the range. Basically it is this:

High Frequency= greater details, short ranges
Low Frequency= Longer ranges, loss of details

I can remember exactly but there is limit to amount of Power(Watts) that
you can pump into a high freq radar, after that the power(watts) is wasted.

At the space ranges radar would have to a very low frequency to get the
range needed, the accuracy would be very way off. Not very good for
precision weapons fire. But it would be good for an early detection system,
then you hand the target over to a more precise sensor, like a laser or
even a maser. But being active all the time is very bad for a military
situations.

By the way while in the USN I worked on four radars for fire control, three
had freqs in mega to giga hertz range, those were trackers/fire control,
the forth radar's waveguide was greater than my hand could span ie greater
than 6 inches.
The forth radar was a scanner, it detected the targets, then handed off to
one of the other three, due to its lack of precise target location.

Bruce have you given any thought to a maser sensor or would you class that
with lasers. A maser would have better dust penetration than a laser. A
maser would make for great orbit to ground scanner to get through the
atmospheric conditions.

>To take a real world example, the illustrious Simbad Sam informs me that the
>1980s SDI airborne laser tests, using radar for targeting, had to cheat
>(radar reflectors and maybe even transponders on the target) to get a
>position good enough to hit a missile with a laser. The new USAF laser
>project has dropped radar in favour of passive IR and LIDAR.

Cheating! Hell it was a rigged fight, they had a Lunberg(sp) Lense on the
front of the missile to enhance the radar return, the IFF transponder ID
number and frequency, altitude, speed, course, and bearing to the firing
aircraft. You can't rig a test any better than that.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:20:40 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1866

In mail you write:

> b) If they are also just jumping in, grabbing cargo/freight, and
> jumping right out, then you need to start (after a few weeks)
> telling them that they have been basically going straight (either
> working their tails off on planet or cooped up in space the
> size of a modest apartment) for some time and it's beginning
> to wear thin.

Why? Sounds like my life.... :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:57:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

In mail you write:

> After the long night I suspect there would be a lot of different
> systems in use, especialy from worlds that regressed down to TL0-3.

Don't count on them being different. Units of measurement persist for
*very* lomg times. The mile goes back more than 2000 years. Ditto for
the pound. I'm not sure about other measurements.

What *will* happen is the the *name* will change somewhat due to
language drift, and the exact value of the unit will drift some. But
likely not by more than +/- 25%.

So after recontact, making the shift should be pretty simple.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:07:13 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Pirates

Erwin Fritz writes:
>>For the same reason Coast Guard ships go out to help ships in distress. The
>>ship is there anyway, so you may as well get some use out of it.
>> 
> 
>But Coast Guard ships don't go into foreign waters to do this. 

I remember a former Coast Guard posting to the net about joining the CG
in order to avoid Vietnam only to find himself sweeping for mines in the
Mekong Delta. But that's besides the point. The Coast Guard may not go
foreign to protect merchantmen, but the Navy sure as hell does.

>Remember, we're talking about Rhylanor sending its patrol vessels into 
>_adjacent_ systems. Sure, Rhylanor'll have ships in its own system.

I was using Rhylanor as an example of a world that could afford to support
more ships than it needed to protect its own system. If they don't send
ships directly then they turn over some of their funds to the Imperium
and the Imperium sends the ships. In the final analysis it'll still be 
Rhylanor and the other high-population planets that pays.

>Protecting the trade of other systems does not fall within the
>jurisdiction of a government.

So why are US Navy ships nosing around in the Mediteranean and the Red
Sea and the Indian Ocean?
 
>The Imperium cares little for the fate of the average person. It has,
>IMO, the attitude that people are expected to fend for themselves.
>It also has the attitude, again IMO, that the above attitude does not
>apply towards well-connected people like nobles and business 
>executives. Your average small merchant starship contains neither
>and is out of luck.

If the Imperium had so few resources that they were forced to chose between
what worlds to cover, then I might agree with you. But the whole point is
that the Imperium controls enough assets to cover every one of it's
10,000 systems.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8


 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:23:57 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: PIRATES RULE !!

does anyone remember the pirate ships that looked like normal traders on
the out side but were full to the rim with hidden weapons and armor ?
said ship could enter a system and pose as a trader useing fake I.D. #
and jump a trader as it neared the jump point .
also why steal the cargo if you couls HI-JACK a ship for resale or re use
?
and...how many normal traders turn to a bit of piracy and smuggeling to
increase the ol' income ? 

and lastly , the impire IMHO probably just doesn't have the man power to
watch every system . and some pirates are likely corsairs work for
foriegn governments under a letter of Marque . so piracy is possible ,
hey it happens today sometimes of the florida coast .


jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:12:42 -0500
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns

This little Vargr is currently running a campaign, after finally prying the
group away from AD&D <shrudder> and StarWars.  By dint of personal charisma
I single-handedly convinced them to play Traveller so they can have "Really
Big Guns".  This is the first Traveller game for all of them except for me
and one player.

Location: St Louis, MO and surrounds
Age: 3-4 months
Meeting: Once every two weeks (apx)
Group Size: 6 players 1 GM
Referees: Me
Health: A little overweight, but ... Oh, the campaign!  Pretty good- most
common phrase at the end of the session is 'When do we play next?'
Rules: MT Task system, modified TNE for combat, FFS2 for construction rules
(although I crib vehicles etc from all versions) 
Setting: Spinward Marches 1112IY, employees of 'Executive Action', a
troubleshooting team of experts (think 'A-Team' in space, but with better
stories).

- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:28:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: races info wanted

Quoth Michael Koehne:
> 	Race					Source I need
> 	-----------------------------------------------------
> 	Ael Jael from Jaeyelya/Gushmege 0437	JTAS 15
> 	Loeskalth (Sky Raiders)			TTC 5
> 	Suerrat from Ilelish 2907		no clue
> 	Jonkeereen				MTJ 3
> 	Vlazhumecta				TTC 5

I own JTAS 15 and MTJ 3.  What do you need?

I also have part of a writeup I did a year or so ago about the Suerrat --
I'd have done more, but I got a new job and suddenly found most of my time
occupied by seventh-grade curriculum design.  :-P  Another TML member had
a Suerrat description published in IG's new JTAS #25, but so far as I know
there's very little "canonical" information on the race.

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:31:14 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Spaceports

MJ Dougherty writes:
>The Imperium of M0 is expanding fast. The cost of building class C ports is
>astronomical (pun not intended; probably not even present). 

Astronomical? A couple of square kilometers of land, for which you may or
may not have to pay, a few buildings, a communications suite, a bit of a
fence, a workshop, a stock of spare parts,and a fusion plant. Personally
I'd add a fuel purification plant, but that is not strictly speaking
necessary for a Class C starport. Add half a dozen employees and you are 
in business (Did I forget anything?) That won't cost you as much as a
single merchant ship (In fact, load an obsolete Class M merchant with
some prefabs, a surplus mobile fabrication unit, and a few 'impress the
natives' kits and you'd have an instant starport package). 

The rest of your posting sounds good except that the poor licencees will
get awfully hungry on what they can earn from their starport until the
Imperial border catches up with them ;-). But if they can wait 20 years
for a return on their money, then it sounds like a good investment.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:39:37 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Guidance for IG Writers

Andy Lilly wrote:

> Many months ago I advocated to IG that they create various mailing lists for
> IG writers to discuss things, and a 'secure' web source of T4 and previous
> 'canon' data for writers. Whether these will eventually be created, I have
> no idea.
>
> Until a short while ago some of us writers (e.g. those within CORE) were
> swapping the draft texts around so everyone knew roughly what was going on,
> but now even that has stopped.
>

Andy,

Since I am in part responsible for the thread you were replying to, and other
parts of it that I hope you also read, involved what some seem to have
misinterpreted as a cut to TLWH and Gateway. I wanted to reply to you and say
thanks. This was the primary point I was trying to make, that without some way
to check "new" writings and "new" writers' works, other than to rag on them on
this list, it is impossible NOT to make errors in 'Canon". Too much of the early
material is out of print and nearly impossible to find. Continuous criticism,
too often of a detrimental nature, rather than a constructive nature, can only
serve to discourage the writing of new adventures and material for this game,
and IMHO the is a BAD thing.

I hope that IG gets their heads in the right spot. A game with a 20 year long
"history" needs a writers guide of some type! If only an outline of the older
material. I have just purchased the M:0 Campaign and find that a this book moves
well into that direction with it's background write up and timeline, but more is
needed! A reprint of Library Data, with the inclusion of material reflecting
data from the published adventures and supplements would be the way to go, I
believe.

Any way, thanks for your interest and comments.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1872
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 25 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1873



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Piper (Was: Live Campaigns?)
Mystery Challenge
Live Campaigns
Re: Memories
Choice
Port Authority Checklist
Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?
Re: Port Authority Checklist
[HEY MARC] - Re: FF&S2 Question
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?
traveller CD [not really]
Two Questions
Re: Mystery Challenge
Re: Memories
Re: Two Questions
Fw: Magical moments and GM laughs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:01:43 -0500
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrod@dfw.net>
Subject: Piper (Was: Live Campaigns?)

At 09:57 PM 9/19/97 PST, Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:

>I'm waiting for the sequel to "Great King's War" (which is a sequel to
>"Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen").
>
From some correspondence about five years ago that I dug out, John F. Carr
and Roland Green, at that time were trying to get permission from Ace (who
were no longer interested in the series) to find a new publisher for
"Gunpowder God".  Carr commented that he thought that this would be
difficult since it (and "Great King's War") would be orphaned without "Lord
Kalvan of Otherwhen".  In my last letter I received from him, back in 1994
(before they moved offices, just after the '94 L.A. quake) he said that
they did not have any further news about "Gunpowder God."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:22:34 -0700
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@southwest.net>
Subject: Mystery Challenge

Hello fellow Travellers,

Back in my CT days (maybe 15+ years ago) I ran a short one night scenario
and with all the storytelling lately I thought I would try to resurrect my
sometimes failing memory and recant the tale.

- -------------A Missing Man--------------------
                                by Brian A. Howard

The player characters (party of four) were the command crew of a state of
the art TL 15+ starmerc cruiser. IIRC the ship was a 600 ton up-rated
version based on a patrol cruiser but of unique design and not of Imperial
manufacture. They had returned from a long voyage outside of the Imperium
around the time the Fifth Frontier War was drawing to a conclusion. Their
activities were not exactly sanctioned by any of the parties involved in
the war. I don't remember the world much except that it was in the Spinward
Marches, medium sized, moderate population, and otherwise unremarkable. 
	On about the second day of their stay on planet the group receives a ship
to shore message from a woman, Vicky Redman, who introduces herself as a
friend of Gloria Hecky, a female NPC engineer serving on the PCs ship, who
left on liberty several hours previously. Redman explains that Hecky was
supposed to meet her for a lunch date but never arrived. The group panics
as one of their trusted few was now missing and repeated calls on the
personal communicator each crewmember carried was met with silence. Redman
offers  local contacts to help with the search.
	Conventional legwork (and some tips from Redman's contacts) turn up two
suspects and an address to a flea bitten hotel on the edge of startown.
Naturally, the PC's grab their guns for a valiant SWAT type rescue attempt,
but not before Redman insists on attending the party. Hecky was her friend
after all, and the PC's owed her for the help.
	Storming the hotel room the PC's find a pathetic horror. The suspects are
half naked, sprawled out on the meager, broken-down furniture completely
strung-out on some mind altering narcotics while loud Mando Rock* blares
from a portable stereo. In a back room the group finds Hecky or rather her
body. She is found tied spread-eagle to the single bed, apparently dead of
asphyxiation. In a rage Redman grabs a pistol and shoots the suspects dead.
Fearful of police recriminations the group flees to their ship and prepares
a quick departure. On the way, Redman asks to join the crew. They are in
need of a new engineer for which she has some skill, and she needs a quick
departure for obvious reasons. Oddly, the local police never call before
they leave the planet.

And now for the challenge: What really happened?

My players never figured it out, but can any of you?

Email me privately with a solution or questions and the first one who
guesses right gets a cookie (guess I better make one, huh?)

*Mando Rock: a creation of my own warped mind, this style of music
incorporated heavy speed-steel guitar riffs superimposed over blues scores
often played on instruments ranging from the folk to the bizarre. The whole
effect was best enjoyed on narcotics. Some months after I ran this
scenario, I found a curious recording by a band named MandoRock!

Sincerely,

Brian A. Howard

If you hear the sound of a Babel fish, run. 
For a Vogon constuctor fleet cannot be far behind.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:35:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dedly@aol.com
Subject: Live Campaigns

Location: Danbury/Norwalk, CT
Age: 5 years
Meeting: every other week
Group Size: 5 players and me
Referee: Me
Health: Excellent
Rules: A hodge podge collection of CT, MT, TNE, T4, mine and stuff pulled
from the TML. (I like different parts of each edition)
Setting: 1128 in the Domain of Deneb. Counting down to Virus and plan on
playing right through its release. That is, provided the PC's live. >=)

\_/
DED

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:25:28 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Memories

Glenn Crawford wrote:

> Ah yes. Mem-reez, like the corners of my mind, misty water col<slap>
> Sorry.
>

Ah, the good ol' daze. I remember back in the '70's, I think it was the first
trav game I ever Reff'ed, and I went a little overboard.

The situation involved a stolen ship with a prototype drive system that was
being "held" on an airless moon. The party was hired to recover the prototype.
In order to get them to the moon their employers gave them the use of an armed
penance, I think it had a missile launcher. They immediately painted it matte
black, (space camo!)

The idea was for them to get into this really neat battle, both ground and
space. Well the penance dropped the pc's, with the pilot remaining aboard.
Slowly the party creeped up to a position overlooking the prototype! I rubbed my
hands together thinking of the fun when the guards I had posted caught them, and
rolled, completely missing the roll! Then, form over the horizon came the
penance, launching a brase of missiles NEAR the prototype, and continuing on
over the opposite horizon! (It was a small moon).

While the guards stared after the penance, (which never even turned!), the party
ran toward the ship and slipped into the airlock, jamming it closed behind them.
Quickly they blasted the heck out of the two remaining personnel on the ship,
that were woefully under armed to handle the pack of blood thirsty so-and-so's
I'd allowed to attack them. The rest of the guards were all stuck out of the
ship! The party was inside, watching as the original criminals slowly
asphyxiated, while calmly preparing to lift off! The penance was who knows
where, half way back to the planet!

They returned the prototype and bought the penance with a part of their reward,
which had made only the single run, then ran away before a shot could be fired
back. I insisted that the penance now had acquired a yellow strip down it's
spine! For over two years this same group played  Traveller off and on, using
that matte black penance with the yellow stripe to frighten little old ladies
and small children, it NEVER came closer than half a continent to a battle,
during the entire campaign. To this day I have a hand made miniature of that
penance on my shelf that it's pilot made and gave to me when we retired the
campaign!

The moral of this too long story? I underestimated the players in that first
game, but they ENJOYED it! It hooked them on Traveller, and we all had Fun!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:15:02 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Choice

David J. Golden wrote:
> 
> >On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:11:35 +0000 Kenneth Bearden
 I just came back, and
> I've already seen things that lead me to think Marc is ignoring FF&S2 for
> Yet Another Ship Design System. Which will completely blow the flame out
> for me. It's already flickering pretty badly.

I used to feel the same way as you do, but I've adopted another
attitude.  Being constantly disappointed is not a way I want to live,
especially in reference to my favorite role playing game.


For me, Traveller is pick and choose.  There is wealth of items to pick
from out there.

In my campaign, I pull things from T4, CT, MT, and TNE.  Now that GURPS
is out (one of my players has a copy), I've seen some things in it that
I may adopt for my game.

If I've got four or five ways to design ship, that should be an
advantage (hey, I'm trying here).

I look at it like this.  Recently, I've been evaluating space combat
systems.  We've got the one in the original CT books.  We've got High
Guard.  And, we've got Mayday.

Then, we've got the MT space combat system from those original three
books.

Next, we've got Brilliant Lances, Battle Rider, and the original BL like
system in the TNE main book.

Finally, there's this really neat RPSCS system.

Boy, that's a lot of choice for a game master.

And, you know what?  

Other games don't have that kind of choice. 

So, I'm looking at it as a benefit for Traveller.

As far as the ship construction system for T4 goes, we've got a lot of
choice in that too.  I would prefer something like a basic system, a
middle of the road system, and a specific-screw-nut-and-bolt system--all
backwardly compatible--like QSDS, SSDS, and FF&S2 were originally hoped
to be.

But, hey, that's not the case.  We've got what we've got.  The point
is--we do have a lot of choice that is not even possible in other game. 
You are basically stuck with one system, crappy or not, when you play
other RPG's.

I'm all for constantly trying to make Traveller better, but I've decided
to sit back, enjoy the hell out of my own campaign, and just use the
items I want without bothering about items that I don't think are worth
buying.

I was buying everything that IG put out as soon as it was put out.  Now,
I sit back and wait.  If I need it, I go and get it.

And as far as choice goes...in my campaign, it is a big universe out
there.  One planet may be using SSDS, while you go to another planet,
and you will get ships designed with FF&S2.

No big deal anymore.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:14:40 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Port Authority Checklist

My characters have had everything that wasn't nailed down stolen on
thier ship.

They are getting insurance money, part of their subsidy agreement, and
are trying to re-equip the ship.  As a GM, I'm trying to come up with a
list of stuff that is mandatory for a starship to have.  The ship will
have to undergo an inspection before she leaves dirtside by the port
authority.

Help me brainstorm here.  What are the essential items for a starship? 
What will be on the port authority's inspection list?

=================================================================================

Here's the things I've come up with.  Keep in mind that I'm looking for
a list of minimum requirements.  The players can always get extra stuff
if they want it:



1) Proper computer software.  I'm using he CT computer rules with the
RPSCS.  It works like a charm, and is fun as hell.



2) Vac Suits:

Ship
7 Vac Suits--one for each crew member;  location is player designated
10 Emergency Vac Suits--one for each passenger;  location in staterooms
9 Emergency Vac Suits--one for each low berth passenger;  location in
low berth room
3 Emergency Vac Suits--one for each airlock;  location in each airlock
4 Emergency Vac Suits--one for each major hallway;  location in each
major hallway

Launch
1 Emergency Vac Suit--in airlock
1 Emergency Vac Suit--under pilot's chair
13 Emergency Vac Suits--for maximum passenger capacity

Total Vac Suits:  48



3) PLSS
Life support systems for each vac suit

Total PLSS's:  48



4) Secondary, emergency survival item.
This can be a survival bubble or rescue ball or some such other device. 
It's for the last ditch attempt.

48 items--located in the same locations as the vac suits above.



5) Small, one time use, Med kits

Ship
3 med kits--one in each airlock
13 med kits--one in each stateroom
4 med kits--one in each major hallway
1 med kit--bridge
1 med kit--lounge
1 med kit--galley
3 med kits--low berth room
1 med kit--engineering
2 med kits--cargo deck

Launch
1 med kit--airlock
1 med kit--for passengers

Total med kits:  31



6) Tools
1 set of Mechanical Tools
1 set of Electronic Tools



Can you think of things that would also be on this list?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:59:27 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?

In mail you write:

> anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman) said:
>>As actives drop of at 1/(r^4) compared to passives 1/(r^2) there will be NO
>>long range active sensors in space. Also, the advantage to know the range
>>to target at each instance is not as important when weaponry generally move
>>at c or near c.
>
> Sorry, but I have to disagree. You can format or encode your active signal
> to give you loads of data about a target which just can't be obtained from a
> passive sensor, even given the r^2/r^4 difference in returned signal.

There's also another trick used in some radars (or so I'm told). You
send out pulses at differeent frequencies and at "irregular" intervals.
Both "channel" and timing are controlled by a pregenerated
psuedo-random number. Designed properly, such a system registers as
occasional loud static pulses (which get generated by some stars and
most gas gaints) rather than as a sensor signal.

You might call these "covert" active sensors. While it may take them
longer to be sure they have a valid return, the "pattern" of pulses
means that they don't have the "phantom range" problem that standard
radars have. 

That's where a pulse from a *long* ways off returns shortly after a
second (or even *third*) pulse has been sent out, and thus gets
interpreted as a return from the later pulse. Thus the reported range
is the real range minus c times the pulse rate. 

Due to the irregular pattern of the covert sensor, this can't happen.
It's looking for returns that match the pattern it sent out. This also
makes it a lot harder to spoof with false targets. 

Another anti-jamming trick is to have a regular radar that sends out
complex pulses (ie the waveform isn't a simple "pulse". If the returns
don't match the waveform, then you know that someone is trying to trick
you, and thus you can have all weapons ready while acting like an
innocent victim walking into the trap. :-)

Of course, the bad guys try to match your waveforms once they learn
about the trick, and from then on, it's a race between move subtle
pulse patterns, and jammers that can detect and match them. We are in
the early stages of this now. By M0, things should be *really*
interesting. 

But the "random pattern" radars will still be useful, as the whole idea
is to make them *look* like so much "noise". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:31:12 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Can you think of things that would also be on this list?

I just thought of another thing myself.

7) Vac Suit patch kit:

Total patch kits:  48  one with each vac suit

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:33:14 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: [HEY MARC] - Re: FF&S2 Question

>Dave Golden said:

>I just came back, and
>I've already seen things that lead me to think Marc is ignoring FF&S2 for
>Yet Another Ship Design System. Which will completely blow the flame out
>for me. It's already flickering pretty badly.

I just sent back my copy of M0 campaign, as the new material did not add
enough for me to find it worth the purchase.  I would be very unhappy if
FF&S2 were to be completely invalidated as well, as I found it one of the
most useful supplements to come out, along with PE, CSC, and EA

Let me say that stronger: if Marc does not use FF&S2, OR A SIMPLIFIED
DERIVATIVE, I, too will be very tempted to eschew the new T4 supplements,
as I will not be able to trust that any of them will be read by anyone
other than the author once printed.  I want these books to be useful, like
the original black books were not invalidated by later supplements.

If Marc chooses to use a simplified version which gives exactly the same
results, like QSDS  was for FF&S, and use FF&S2 for the gearheads, then I
would be quite happy.  For this to work, the simplified system MUST be
derived from the complicated one in FF&S2.  There are plenty of people who
would be willing to do some of that work, I suspect, if they got
appropriate credits.

I am not pleased when my hard earned money is wasted on a supplement that
the game designers do not use for future products themselves, and IG has
already made me angry several times.  Marc - please do not do this with
FF&S 2.

Scott

- -------
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu.  http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz/
"You die, she dies, EVERYbody dies" - Heavy Metal
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment results" -
Calvin Coolidge, attrib. by Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 01:04:16 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

On 25 Sep 97 at 3:35, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> Here's how it would work: You designate a fairly large sphere a bit
> outside the jump limit as the arrival area. All ships know that they have
> to arrive within that area (It's the law). You have as many patrol ships
> as the traffic warrants stationed there. When a ship arrives it is given a
> place in a queue and told to wait. While the ship is waiting it is
> inspected by the patrol. Any ship with weapons have them deactivated. Once
> the 'Orbital Guard' has made sure of the ship's identity and general
> harmlessness it is allowed to proceed down to the surface.

Excellent idea!!!
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:50:08 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?

>> Sorry, but I have to disagree. You can format or encode your active signal
>> to give you loads of data about a target which just can't be obtained from a
>> passive sensor, even given the r^2/r^4 difference in returned signal.

I agree that actives are good for sensing the target and getting info about
it BUT how do you get around the r^2/r^4 difference? In order to keep up
with passives at the long ranges you have calculated detections will take
place they'll have to beef up the output power A LOT. If the acticves are
primarily used as trackers for laserfire why not use the lasers themselves
as actives? They're highpower, tightlobe and the reflections will be just
as dopplered etc as radars. Even misses will probably show up at close
range as the intensity isn't cut off totally outside the focussed area.

My feeling why most people want to keep actives is because they do not want
to play a realistic space combat but a Harpoon(tm) like naval action with a
black mapboard and playing pieces looking like starships but behaving like
surface ships except the fighters.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:40:15 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: traveller CD [not really]

This just in from MicroInfo:

NEW CD-ROM WILL HELP TRAVELLERS AVOID TUMMY BUGS AND WORSE

The new "Traveller" Worldwide Health Information CD-ROM from Focus 77 is
based on information provided by the London Hospital for Tropical Diseases.
Updated monthly, the CD provides detailed information on individual
diseases, suggests preventative measures and warns of particularly
hazardous regions. Traveller supports single or multi centre travel.

Disease risks, including malaria, are given for all locations. All diseases
are checked, not just those with a vaccine. These include Dengue Fever,
Schistosomiasis (Bilharzia), leishmaniasis and Onchocerciasis (River
Blindness) etc.

Doctors, Practice and Clinic Nurses, Occupational Health Departments,
Pharmacists and Travel Industry Professionals will benefit from this unique
product.

For further information, please contact Focus 77 Ltd., 78-80 Akeman Street,
Tring, Hertfordshire, HP23 6AF. Telephone: +44 1442 828877 or Fax: +44 1442
828866. E-mail: traveller@focus77.u-net.com



OK, so it tickled my sense of humor (evidently rather feeble) regarding the
 much vaunted and long awaited Traveller CD.  However, it had other
interest for me (aside from the fact that I suffered at the hands of that
same London Hospital when I returned from the tropics with a whole
bunch of nice diseases for them to 'show off' to med students).

Without wishing to start (or encourage) the whole Plague of Duskir thread
once again, has anyone considered disease and/or the treatment of it
in Traveller (excepting the JTAS article on the subject)?  Particularly with
regard to PCs?  I seem to recall having to botch together some old AD&D
rules on the subject but this was a long time back and my memory may
be at fault.

(Anyone want a brief write up of 'hezmaritosis' - a curious  illness whose
only effect is giving you all the symptoms of drunkeness.  I got fed up
with goody-goody players avoiding drink just to avoid being drunk!!) [1]

Perhaps the PoD debate shows that something more concrete in the
way of 'rules' are desperately needed.

Just some rambling,

tc


[1]  (And of course all the lovely referee useful side effects that
intoxicated
PCs can fall for....)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:51:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Woden2014@aol.com
Subject: Two Questions

I was recently on a quest to satisfy my curiosity on a few random facts and
got stuck on a couple of them.  I would really apreciate some help.

1) What is the speed of light (km/sec.)?

2) what distance is an AU in kilometers?

I know they seem easly answered questions, but I just moved to a new city and
haven't had a chance to find the library yet.  I realize the information is
probably on the web somewhere (that's where I found the other answers I was
looking for), but I'm kind of new to that to, and still stumbling around it.

Thanks for your help!

Bill Lucas <woden2014@aol.com>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:23:18 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Mystery Challenge

Brian A. Howard wrote:
>
> Back in my CT days (maybe 15+ years ago) I ran a short one night scenario
> and with all the storytelling lately I thought I would try to resurrect my
> sometimes failing memory and recant the tale.

I like reading these things on the TML.  It's that shared RPG feeling...

>         Storming the hotel room the PC's find a pathetic horror. The suspects are
> half naked, sprawled out on the meager, broken-down furniture completely
> strung-out on some mind altering narcotics while loud Mando Rock* blares
> from a portable stereo. In a back room the group finds Hecky or rather her
> body. She is found tied spread-eagle to the single bed, apparently dead of
> asphyxiation.

Morbid and macbre, man.  I like it!

> And now for the challenge: What really happened?

I've got no freakin idea, but I can't wait to find out.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 05:30:51 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Memories

Michael D. Peters wrote:

> The moral of this too long story? I underestimated the players in that first
> game, but they ENJOYED it! It hooked them on Traveller, and we all had Fun!

Great Story!

Role playing has incredible addictive properties.  You've just described
the effect!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:45:18 +0200 (MET DST)
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se>
Subject: Re: Two Questions

At 05:51 1997-09-25 -0400, Bill Lucas wrote:
>1) What is the speed of light (km/sec.)?

Approx. 300.000 km/s, equalizing about 184000 miles/s if you do not use the
metric system. The exact (yes, according to the definition) figure is
299792458 meters per second. Actually, a meter is defined as the distance
light travels in 1/299792458th of a second (which is defined ... [long,
boring explanation terminated here]

>2) what distance is an AU in kilometers?

An AU, or astronomical unit, is the average distance between Earth and the
Sun, which is 149.6 Gm, or about eight light minutes (i.e. it takes light,
radio communication and such eight full minutes to travel that distance).
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm (Link=F6ping, Sweden)

It's astounding, time is fleeting, madness takes it's toll
But listen closely, not for very much longer
I've got to keep control
I remember doing the Time Warp
Drinking those moments when the darkness would hit me
And a void would be calling
Let's do the Time Warp again

- - Time Warp, from the Rocky Horror Picture Show

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:20:54 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Fw: Magical moments and GM laughs

I mistakenly only sent this to Kenneth. Here is is for real:
 

> Here's something Kenneth (and others) might get a laugh out of:
> 
> My present campaign segment has seen more significant use of Liaison,
> Diplomacy, carousing type skills than anything else. So the 'die rollers'
> (two of my players who don't really roleplay as such but just get the
dice
> out in fight scenes) are in trouble.
> 
> The characters arrive at Strashnaa, a TL 12 world in M:0, where due to
the
> background I made up on the spot, the locals are obsessed with safety
(they
> irradiated their world with dodgy nuclear plants in the distant past).
Law
> level is A, but slightly more relaxed at the highport.
> 
> After going through rigorous safety checks at customs (oh, and a
contraband
> sweep, but that was secondary), it becomes clear that the popular
dictatorship is
> obsessive about making the world safe.
> 
> Dave decides to go to the surface. 
> Wearing diplo armour he's just bought (quite legal - they sell excellent
> guided missiles for export, too).
> 
> Dave reaches customs at the mainworld port. 
> 'Hello citizen.' (scan, scan) (Routine questions).
> 'Hello Starport guard.'
> 'Citizen, please go with these gentlemen into this secure room and
explain
> why you feel the need to wear personal body armour on the world our
> Dictator spends so much time and effort - and 30% of GWP - to make
> completely safe for you.'
> 
> They would have accepted, 'Oh, sorry. I hadn't realised I still had it
> on... the quality is so good, you see.' - or other complimentary blather.
> Or, 'I'm an Imperial diplomat' (technically true) ' and you wouldn't want
> me getting injured - too embarrassing for your government - so you see, I
> thought it safest to wear the armour - just in case' (they'd have
> sympathised and maybe agreed on political grounds - a nice reading of
local
> culture.
> 
> In fact, they'd have accepted almost any explanation.
> But Dave had to say, 'err....ummm... well, I'm used to being shot at...
> there was that world where I uhhh... got shot at.... and errr... that bar
> fight where... oh, that's right. I wasn't there....'
> 
> I always make the skill task more or less difficult based upon a good
> speech by the player, a good plan or techno-explanation or whatever. It
> promotes involvement from the players rather than, 'I fix the turret'
(roll
> dice).
> 
> Dave's speech was awful, the roll got harder. 
> 
> Guard gets out recording device. 'So, you think our world is unsafe? Or
> were you planning to engage in unsafe activities which required body
> armour? Such intent is punishable by DEATH... or incarceration'  (the
> latter is a phrase my players came to dread, hearing it every six minutes
> all night.)
> 
> To cut a long story short(er), Dave was put back on the shuttle,
registered
> as an 'undesirable (idiot)' in the planetary archives, and sent back to
the
> highport. I gave him a 'significant pause' to take off the body armour,
> then he reached customs....
> 
> (scan scan) 'Hello citizen. Can you tell me why you think you need body
> armour on our highport?
> 
> It took three of us to lever his lower lip back into place!
> 
> Be mean to your players - especially the die rollers and THE ONES WHO
BRING
> A PORTABLE RADIO AND TRY TO SNEAKILY LISTEN TO THE FOOTBALL DURING THE
> GAME!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Ahem.
> 
> Martin.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1873
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 25 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1874



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Live Campaigns?
More Blithering about S/W
Re: [HEY MARC] - Re: FF&S2 Question
GM laughs and Strashnaa
NEW ship design system??
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22
Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?
Re: Port Authority Checklist
Re: Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?
GURPS Traveller experiment
TNS arcticles
Re: starship design in T4.1
Re: Live Campaigns
Re: WW II Ogre tank
THUDDD - whatzup?
Jump space
Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships
Re: Mystery Challenge
Re: A gearhead/techie proposal
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Jump space
Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?
Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?
Re: FF&S2 Question
FFS2 Weapon Question/Clarification

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:43:50 -0400
From: "Clark, William" <Clark@bessemer.com>
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns?

Location:           Byram Township, Sussex County, NJ
Age:                7 years
Meeting Frequency:  Once a month, Saturday mornings until we drop.
                    (some players come from as much as 100 miles away)
Group Size:         5+ players (3 core players, 1 who lives 100 miles
                    away has been playing Traveller with me for 18 yrs.)
Referees:           1 (me)
Health:             Excellent
Rules Mix:          80% T4, 20% CT, MT, TNE, and assorted house rules
Setting:            Spinward Marches 1106, Started with The Traveller
                    Adventure, the group is currently in the middle of
                    Twilight's Peak

About to start a new campaign, running weekly, set in M:0 with 3-4
players.

I also have two children ages two (Kaitlyn) and four (Billy).  Billy
is fascinated by the miniatures we use and loves to help Daddy roll the
dice and work my computer (which I use to manage my game) while we
are playing (at least until its time for bed and he's not too
distracted by his friends coming over for the day).

Bill Clark
clark@bessemer.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:47:06 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: More Blithering about S/W

Still way behind, but trying to catch up... in TML1853, Ethan Henry said:
>Subject: Re: Hacking gunnery-1

>> Well, you can always hack the software controlling the switches actions...who
>> cares about the cheesball microcode built into the switch?
>Hm, I think you misunderstand. Nortel has a few hundred engineers
>writing code in C, C++ and Protel that goes into phone switches...

>...I honestly believe
>that a modern, large-scale, network backbone phone switch is one of
>the single most complicated monolithic artifacts ever created by 
>mankind.

I can't really remember the details, but when they realised a couple of
years back that they needed to re-write their switch s/w to move to
object-oriented code (or was it to repair the first attempt at OO code?)
they wrote off something like 900 million dollars for doing it. Profits sure
looked bad that year...

Later Ethan said:
>If I can swap the ROMs in my laser turret to make it work any better 
>than it did before, I'm going to take it back for a refund because
>I got ripped off in the first place...

I would dispute this to some degree. It's not at all uncommon for stuff to
be downgraded for civilian use where it might compromise military/government
interests. So there might well be a black market in upgrading civilian ROMs
to military versions. There could also be certain functions (such as
when-on-the-ground-don't-let-the-turret-fire-its-weapons interlocks that one
might well want to hack out).

Andy :-)

(Who works for Nortel but who has absolutely nothing to do with switching
software...)

P.S. When you work your way back through digests you start to realise just
how much space is wasted with unnecessary re-quoting, right down to the
other person's signature... and then there are those people with huge
signatures themselves (seals himself into his flame-proof suit)... ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:41:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [HEY MARC] - Re: FF&S2 Question

>Let me say that stronger: if Marc does not use FF&S2, OR A SIMPLIFIED
>DERIVATIVE, I, too will be very tempted to eschew the new T4 supplements,
>as I will not be able to trust that any of them will be read by anyone
>other than the author once printed.  I want these books to be useful, like
>the original black books were not invalidated by later supplements.

For what its worth, I wholeheartedly agree.  I just purchased FFS2 a little
over a month or so ago.  I couldn't wait to get it.  I've been playing with
it ever since.  I redesigned alot of the "core" ships in the T4 rules because
these designs were made up from of thin air.

I think that if Marc really _is_ planning on invalidating FFS2, it would just
be annoying and would muddle things even further than they are already.  Stop
the madness!

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:11:48 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: GM laughs and Strashnaa

Martin wrote:
<delightful tale of Strashnaa, a TL 12 world in M:0, where due to
the background I made up on the spot, the locals are obsessed with safety
snipped>

Martin, thank you for a ROFL moment in an otherwise lousy day.

Cheers

tc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:19:14 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: NEW ship design system??

> 	We intended to put one in, but ran out of time and space. It was set
aside
> for a hypothetical volume 2, but I'm beginning to question whether
that'll
> ever happen ... and if anybody would be interested. I just came back, and
> I've already seen things that lead me to think Marc is ignoring FF&S2 for
> Yet Another Ship Design System. Which will completely blow the flame out
> for me. It's already flickering pretty badly.

Wait a minute...are you saying that FF&S2 will ALREADY be invalidated?? I'm
sorry, but this is something I will not accept. FF&S2 has flaws, yes, but
the basic system is sound and should serve as the basis for any simpler
ship design systems. There should be a new version of QSDS in the new T4.1,
not an entirely new and no doubt incompatible design system. I will also be
ending my involvement with Traveller as a game system if this occurs.

allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:25:46 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22

Hi Andy, 
how are you?
I am writing to ask you how the chnaces are for seeing the BITS 
Traveller Books on the Essen Games Show this October. You told me 
some time ago that you wanted to try to get 2nd Games Galore to have 
them available, but is there anything certain yet?

On a different topic: What are the chances of BITS accepting members 
outside of Britain, i a m thinking of the Continent here, one person 
specifically ;-)


Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:27:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?

 
> >(since resolution scales as wavelength) gives you terrible angular
> resolution,
> >so you need very high signal-to-noise and lots of tricks to get a 
> >good fire control solution.
> 
> The main problem with a non coherent form of an active(radar) is that the
> higher the frequency the greater the detail, the lower the frequency the
> longer the range. Basically it is this:
> 
> High Frequency= greater details, short ranges
> Low Frequency= Longer ranges, loss of details
 
One, high frequency=short wavelength
Two low freq=long wavelength.

So Bruce just said what you did above "resolution scales as
wavelength."

As for the range thing, wouldn't this be largely an atmospheric
thing? Short wavelength would scatter more in an atmosphere than
long wave stuff (generally), so this might well be a "real world"
value that isn't a "real space" relationship (or there, but not as
pronounced :-)

> At the space ranges radar would have to a very low frequency to get the
> range needed, the accuracy would be very way off. Not very good for
 
Again, I think that range limitations related to wavelength (optical
astronomers usually talk about wavelength, and radio guys talk about
frequency, but it's all the same) are based on propagation through
a dense medium.

- -Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:25:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Victor J. Raymond" <RAYMOND@macalester.edu>
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

 
Dear Ken and all,
 
It occurs to me that there might be some useful info to be gleaned from the
Merchant Marine and the Coast Guard about what is considered standard equipment
on merchant, motor, and sailing vessels (says the guy from an inland state -
even if Lake Superior is two hours north of here).
 
I also would expect that there would be lots of maintenance parts to consider,
replacements for filters, light-bulb equivalents, etc., etc.  Too much
handwaving about ultrasonic cleaners and Nevr-Fail lighttubes misses the point
that ships do have wear-and-tear, as well as richochets from gauss rifles, etc.
You might bundle these into a general maintenance pool, but you ought not
forget it.
 
In fact, you could even build a decent sub-plot around some of the things the
players have to do to keep the ship going.  "Dunbar resistor-pads?  Never use
'em -- they fail too quickly.  I'd rather have the T-1533's from Aillekushu.
Only problem is that the nearest distributor is, um, 7 parsecs aways.
Still....it'ud be worth it..."
 
Victor Raymond

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:30:51 +0100
From: Bruce E J Lewis <bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

At 14:27 23/09/97 -0600, Leroy William Lu Guatney wrote:
>I recently picked up the Milieu: 0 Campaign book by Imperium Games.  While
>it is true that this new hardcover book from IG incorporates previously
>published materials (M:0 sourcebook, First Survey), it also includes a _lot_
>of new material that any fan of Traveller would like to have for their
>campaign, or their knowledge of the Third Imperium.  I can say that I wish
>this kind of stuff had been around in the Classic Traveller era.  Any fan of
>the Imperium _must_ have this book.

	Sounds good, does anyone know if this new material will be available
seperately? Having bought M0 and First Survey, I don't feel obliged to
spend money twice on these products, espech when First Survey is useless
anyway.

	See ya...


Bruce E J Lewis - mailto:bruce@legend.ftech.co.uk
Telephone - 0956-506527

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:46:31 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?

>If two or more ships in *your* fleet are datalinked, then they can
>observe at the same time. Might be neat to make rules for a sensor
>ship that acts as a clearinghouse for ssensor data in a task
>force...
>
>-Merrick

With good timebase and inertial nav you could even perhaps even use
aperture synthesis to get better resolution.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:42:55 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: GURPS Traveller experiment

	I've decided to try out a GURPS version of Traveller on my gaming group.
I've converted the classic adventure "Signal GK", which I bought for 50
cents at a game store accross the street from the old GDW offices, to GURPS
utilizing information found on the net. There are at least three major
sources for GURPS Traveller info of the unofficial variety,  which are:

	http://www.io.com/~ jlockett/RPG/Traveller (Jackson Downport; good site.)
	http://members.tripod.com/~TheShipyard/Imperium.htm (GURPS
Imperium...great detail)
	http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/articles/traveller2.html (David Summers
excellent article)

Other links are available from the Jackson Downport site, and more info is
available in the GURPSNet archive, which can be accessed from there. Note,
of course, that these are UNOFFICIAL, and will probably bear little
resemblance to what is published next year, but it's a good way to try out
the concept and see if Traveller in GURPS might be to your liking.

Allen

"There's three things that can happen in baseball; you can win, you can
lose, or it can rain."
- -Casey Stengel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 11:53:39 -0400
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: TNS arcticles

Bryan wrote:
>       If anybody has any TNS's/CIN's typed in and wants to save me some
>time? Proofreading is a little less time consuming than typing. And if
>anybody can proofread them for me (hopefully I haven't added to many extra
>typoes to what was already there).

The CIN articles are on my web page in the GAIL section of the BARD pages.
Along with a bunch of newly generated CIN articles.

http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/bard/bardgail.html

Lewis Roberts
- ---------------------------------------------------------------    
Q:Why did the fish cross the ocean?                    
A:To get to the other tide.  
 
lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:05:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: starship design in T4.1

In a message dated 97-09-25 00:20:29 EDT, you write:

<< I'm beginning to gather from Marc's posts that essentially everything in
FFS2 is going to be ignored.  This doesn't necessarily seem like a good
decision... >>

Your assumption is incorrect.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:27:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: XatoKuom@aol.com
Subject: Re: Live Campaigns

In a message dated 97-09-24 13:07:41 EDT, Lewis writes:

<< 
 Location: Decatur GA, just outside Atlanta
 Age: about 1 year
 Meeting: We alternate with D&D, so about every two weeks or so.
 Group Size: 3 players 1 GM
 Referees: Me
 Health: Failing, will probably die in March.  Two of my players are
 moving to Los Angeles and I will start writing my thesis in Dec, and I
 could graduate as soon as March if I get a job.  I'll be in LA for
 October and most of November is already shot.  
 Rules: TNE
 Setting: Reformation Coalition in 1202
  >>

Looking for a fifth?  I live up Marietta ways.  

Scott Quigg(XatoKuom@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:37:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: XatoKuom@aol.com
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

In a message dated 97-09-24 15:26:40 EDT, you write:

<<  If you are stating the heaviest production tank as being the
 JagdTiger, then that is correct.   >>

That was my attempt, Scott!!!  I meant "series" production.  Has anyone on
the list come up with any ideas for armor combat in the Traveller?  It seems
to me that the ability to "ignore"(no one can truly ignore) terrain
limitations would throw all present concepts of armored conflict out the
window.

A fellow Guderianite,
Scott Quigg(XatoKuom@aol.com)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 03:34:13 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: THUDDD - whatzup?

Moin Andrew Akins,

>  Does anyone know what the status of THUDDD is?
> 
> If it's defunct, I'd like to post my SDB design to the list to
> get feedback (that's my favorite part - I really don't care
> if I win or lose, so much...)

	I think that inventor of the THUDDD is offline because of hardware
	problems. I could manage to collect the stuff for a central THUDDD6
	page. But I would perfer somebody other than me to collect the votes
	for the ballot, as I have my own entry.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:43:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Ringrose <ringrose@ai.mit.edu>
Subject: Jump space

PCs being the destructive beings that they are, it is only a matter of time
until someone, accidentally or on purpose, expells something from the ship
while it is in jumpspace.

What happens?  Does a ship going into jump "zone" an area around it, too, and
thus the expelled material will come out of jump next to the ship, or is the
pseudo-science of jumpspace wierder than that?  Is there any way to retrieve
the material, er, PC, that just got blown off the ship?

Another way to answer this would be to point me at something which has a
semi-canonical "theoretical" basis for jumpspace.  I'm looking for something
which won't contradict existing Traveller stuff at a later date.


	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ai.mit.edu

No, I don't have a specific example in mind; I'm going to be running a TNE
game within the next munth or so.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:09:39 PDT
From: "Paul Zumstein" <pzumstein@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships

From: traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
>
>
>When designing ships using MT rules, I find that jump fuel
>requirements are too high. The formula for this is:
>jump fuel volume : X5 (67,5 kiloliters per jump unit)
>I find the X 5 is a bit high. And why 67,5 ????
>How does this system measure up to TNE and T4??? (or other starship
>design systems, such as FFS...)
>I'd like to thank Michael for his input on power plant fuel
>requirements and fixes for this.
>  
>
>ciao,
>
>Denis Allain
>New-Brunswick, Canada
>mailto:traveler@nbnet.nb.ca
>
>


MT actually uses less fuel in its design system than all the others 
(T4/TNE/CT).  The jump fuel requirements for the other systems work out 
to be 10% of the ships volume X the jump value.  That means that a 100 
ton starship making a jump-2 will require 20 tons of fuel just for the 
jump.

PZ


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:57:29 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Mystery Challenge

Redmond was probably an agent for some power that wanted to keep tabs on
the PC group.  She was unscrupulous and had her own friend killed in
order to convince the PC's of her "innocense".  She probably killed the
perpetraters not because of rage (however fake it might have been), but
to keep them silent.

Or, she may have been in sime bad trouble planet side and needed to ship
out, just used all that happened as an exscuse to make a getaway.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:17:05 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: A gearhead/techie proposal

I'd like to see just how large a ship could be and still not create too
much gravity itself that it's support ships couldn't launch from it.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:06:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:

> On 25 Sep 97 at 3:35, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
> > Here's how it would work: You designate a fairly large sphere a bit
> > outside the jump limit as the arrival area. All ships know that they have
> > to arrive within that area (It's the law). You have as many patrol ships
> > as the traffic warrants stationed there. When a ship arrives it is given a
> > place in a queue and told to wait. While the ship is waiting it is
> > inspected by the patrol. Any ship with weapons have them deactivated. Once
> > the 'Orbital Guard' has made sure of the ship's identity and general
> > harmlessness it is allowed to proceed down to the surface.
> 
> Excellent idea!!!
>  The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
> ========================================================
>  Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
> ========================================================
> 

I have to admit, I am not very fond of this idea at first glance.  Though
on the surface, it seems to be very practical, I think there are a number
of problems, mostly directed at the small ship traffic, that make it
unattractive.

How would the inspection process work?  By order of arrival?  So the
200 dTon Free Trader (carrying 80 tons of fertilizer) would not be bumped
in line by the 5000 dTon Liner (carrying 3 Barons, 18 multi-billionaires,
a tri-dee star, etc...)?  How about a no-name trader who has been trying
to establish a small route at a Oberlindes transfer station - how many
'discrepencies' would be found with their paperwork?  Is every ship
boarded, and inspected?  How much time would this take, especially when
you have the 5,000 dTon and 10,000 dTon ships arriving?  What happens to
ships that just need to transship through the system, do they have to sit
through the queue before they can re-fuel, or can they bypass this
process.

How about ship's that do not arrive in this area ('Oops - misjump. Sorry
about that...)?  From what I've interpreted from the list, precision
astrogation (i.e. pinpointing jump breakout) is... haphazard, at best.  So
is your queue position determined by when you check in with Orbital
Control, or by when you arrive at the checkpoint?  (Now that could be
interesting, a 2-G trader arrives out of position, but is racing the 1-G
trader to the inspector...both are carrying the same cargo, so first one
down gets a better price!)  But, I have to admit, the smugglers and
'runners would love that - they would know where most of the custom patrol
ships would be stationed!

So far as de-activating ship's weaponry, well everyone knows that the
Imperial Navy keeps the peace in space.  It is not really necessary for
any ship, other than registered Mercenary Companies, to be armed.  Escorts
are always available for those few captains that are so alarmed by false
or misleading reports, that they feel uncertain about their ship's safety.
Only the government should have weapons, and they shall protect the
citizenry from all harm.

Riiiiiight...And a major trading company, which shall remain nameless,
doesn't actually keep a fully armed cruiser at the border...

At the very least, this would represent another delay  (waiting at the
Jump Point) while a O'Guard technician re-enabled the ship's weaponry -
before you could leave.  And, or course, another 'health and welfare'
inspection to be sure that all your paperwork is in order (while the
Tukera Lines ship, with the proper waivers, sails on by and jumps).

O.K., So the large trading companies (with thier large influence), would
like the setup too...

Also, while the piracy thread has mostly looked at the single pirate, let
us not forget that the Vargrs occasionally gift the Imperium with a fleet
of them!  Having all the shipping for a system nicely queued out at 100
diameters, right where they are popping in themselves, would be a very
tempting target.  And tactically, if I could drop mines in this designated
break-out area, it would be a week, minimum, before the incoming traffic
could be warned to shift targets.

In short, while this would be attractive to highly organized, high
law-level planets/systems, IMHO it would be detrimental to shipping
traffic overall.  The current system, in my campaign, of random
inspections is designed to keep smuggling/piracy within acceptable limits
while keeping the cost (both to the honest trader and to the responsible
agency) at a minimum.

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:38:31 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Jump space

>What happens?  Does a ship going into jump "zone" an area around it, too, and
>thus the expelled material will come out of jump next to the ship, or is the
>pseudo-science of jumpspace wierder than that?  Is there any way to retrieve
>the material, er, PC, that just got blown off the ship?

In my setting, jump space is a misnomer. "Jump space" is not actually a
place where our four dimensional concepts of realspace make sense. A craft
going from one place to another without crossing the intervening distance
is "outside" of spacetime -- essentially a ship in jump is in its own
pocket universe, one you cannot leave.

Actually, the entire concept of jumps that take an amount of time to
complete goes against my own sense of elegance. Personally, I would much
prefer jumps that are instantaneous. This comes from a verrry limited
understanding of cosmology and a dislike for the obvious handwave of a jump
taking about one week (what a coincidence!). Unfortunately, this would kill
the "age of sail" feel of the Traveller universe, something that is also
unacceptable to me.

As if what I thought had any relevance to anyone but myself! :)

Anyway, one idea I toyed with was that jumps take the standard amount of
time from the viewpoint of the real universe, but are instantaneous from
the viewpoint of those on board the ship. In this case, the crew never gets
a chance to try and explore jump space, because time doesn't exist for them
when they are there (and thus, they can't do anything at all).

I have never run a game like this, and I wonder what the effect would be on
the crews of intersteller vessels (those weeks would add up, creating a
"twin brothers" problem of sorts).

All of this, of course, depends on how you want to play. I once ran a
heretical space opera Traveller campaign (complete with the supernatural)
where jump space was actually the astral plane (of AD&D fame). Amazingly
enough, according to one AD&D source, it takes about a week to travel from
one distant place to another on the astral plane, regardless of the actual
intravening distance. What a coincidence! ;)

------------------------------

Date: 25 Sep 1997 18:55:23 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?

TDRandall@aol.com writes:
Anyeay, I noticed an add in the back about a program for various formats
where you can load in a planet's UWP and it would generate the variables how
the book defined them (hopefully with some nice output?).  

http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/software.html

------------------------------

Date: 25 Sep 1997 18:55:23 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: World Builder's Handbook - program?

TDRandall@aol.com writes:
Anyeay, I noticed an add in the back about a program for various formats
where you can load in a planet's UWP and it would generate the variables how
the book defined them (hopefully with some nice output?).  

http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/software.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 16:01:47 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Question

Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu> wrote:
> If Marc chooses to use a simplified [system] like QSDS was for FF&S, and
> use FF&S2 for the gearheads, then I would be quite happy.  For this to
> work, the simplified system MUST be derived from the complicated one in
> FF&S2.  There are plenty of people who would be willing to do some of
> that work [...]

Yes, there are.  I am willing to produce such a system (updating QSDS for
FF&S2 would not be that difficult, provided I had enough lead time and
permission to conduct an extended playtest), and I know of at least one
other group that would be willing to commit to that sort of effort.

Without support from IG and Marc, however, this can't happen.  In short,
there are people standing by who are willing to do the work, if IG and/or
Marc gives the word (if nothing else, we'll need to know what the T4.1 space
combat system will look like).

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:08:40 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: FFS2 Weapon Question/Clarification

I have question/clarification on a part of the firearms design sequence in FFS2.
Specifically calculating the damage for weapons of 30,000 joules or greater.

This is on page 36 and uses table 60 on page 91.

The formula is PVbase + MODpv *(Emuzzle-Ebase)

Lets take an example of weapon with a energy delivery of 30,000 joules
exactly.

30,000/1,000,000 = 0.03 MJoules

PVbase = 16
MODpv  = 7
Emuzzle= 0.03
Ebase  = 0.03

Emuzzle = Ebase due to no enhancements due to barrel length, etc.

16 + 7 * (0.03-0.03) = 0

For short range I use either 15 or 10%(whichever is less) Ok 10% it is 
10% of 0 = 0

For long range I use either 45 or 45%whichever is less) Ok 45% it is
45% of 0 = 0

Could someone please point out what I figuring wrong? or that their is
step/table/formula missing?


- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1874
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 25 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1875



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: NEW ship design system??
Re:  FFS2 Weapon Question/Clarification
Re: Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
T4 Rules
Re: Jump space
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Mystery Challenge
[T97#1867] H. Beam Piper
[T97#1861] Metric System...
Re: Jump space
Re: CJ Cherryh - Finity's End
Re: Port Authority Checklist
Re: Jump space
Re: starship design in T4.1

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:18:54 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: NEW ship design system??

At 10:19 AM 9/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> 	We intended to put one in, but ran out of time and space. It was set aside
>> for a hypothetical volume 2, but I'm beginning to question whether that'll
>> ever happen ... and if anybody would be interested. I just came back, and
>> I've already seen things that lead me to think Marc is ignoring FF&S2 for
>> Yet Another Ship Design System. Which will completely blow the flame out
>> for me. It's already flickering pretty badly.
>
>Wait a minute...are you saying that FF&S2 will ALREADY be invalidated?? I'm
>sorry, but this is something I will not accept. FF&S2 has flaws, yes, but
>the basic system is sound and should serve as the basis for any simpler
>ship design systems. There should be a new version of QSDS in the new T4.1,
>not an entirely new and no doubt incompatible design system. I will also be
>ending my involvement with Traveller as a game system if this occurs.

Allen,

I think that Marc was developing TNAS before FFS2 was released, he may not
have had time to integrate FFS2's data values into his TNAS. I hope.

- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 16:19:09 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re:  FFS2 Weapon Question/Clarification

Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net> wrote:
> This is on page 36 and uses table 60 on page 91.
> The formula is PVbase + MODpv *(Emuzzle-Ebase)

Right ...

> 
> Lets take an example of weapon with a energy delivery of 30,000 joules
> exactly.   30,000/1,000,000 = 0.03 MJoules

... Right ...

> PVbase = 16
> MODpv  = 7
> Emuzzle= 0.03
> Ebase  = 0.03

... OK ...

> Emuzzle = Ebase due to no enhancements due to barrel length, etc.
> 16 + 7 * (0.03-0.03) = 0

Wrong.  You got all the hard stuff right, then made an "Aunt Sally" mistake.

You perform the multiplication first, then the addition.  Thus:

Damage = PVbase + MODpv * (Emuzzle - Ebase)
Damage = 16     + 7     * (0.03    - 0.03)
Damage = 16     + 7     * (0)
Damage = 16     + 0
Damage = 16

You do the subtraction in parentheses first, then the multiplication, and
then the addition.  You specifically do NOT add 16+7 and THEN multiply by
zero.

The rule is:
1) Perform operations in parentheses first, then
2) Perform any exponentiation (squares, square roots, etc), then
3) Multiplication and division (in order from left to right), then
4) Additiona and subtraction (in order from left to right).

This is sixth-grade math stuff.  However, most of us have forgotten all about
sixth grade (at least, I TRY to - the frogs were _not_my_fault_), so there's
a little mnemonic you can use to remember this: "Please Excuse My Dear Aunt
Sally" for Parentheses, Exponentiation, Multiplication and Division, Addition
and Subtraction

FF&S2 was targetted at a high-school math level, and doesn't explicitly say
this (though maybe it should have), because the reader is assumed to know
it.

wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:45:37 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Re: Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

On Wed Sep 24 08:13:44 1997
Dr. Nik Whitehead <nik@barrayar.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>In message , Leroy William Lu Guatney <lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu>
>muses
>>I recently picked up the Milieu: 0 Campaign book by Imperium Games.  While
>>it is true that this new hardcover book from IG incorporates previously
>>published materials (M:0 sourcebook, First Survey), it also includes a _lot_
>>of new material that any fan of Traveller would like to have for their
>>campaign, or their knowledge of the Third Imperium.  I can say that I wish
>>this kind of stuff had been around in the Classic Traveller era.  Any fan of
>>the Imperium _must_ have this book.
>
>I've also just got a copy, and I agree, it's a very good book. 
>
><RANT>
> [snippish smallish]
>Page 124, paragraph 5 'Contacted' refers to 'astrological' data. Now if
>ever there was a game that should know the difference between 
>astrological and astronomical, it's Traveller.
>
></RANT>
>
>Nik
>

Nik,

   Having lectured for the public night sessions at the University of
Denver, here in Colorado (one mile nearer the stars as we say), I have
some experience with the confusion between 'astrological' and 'astronomical'
and I never miss out on an opportunity to further educate the public.

   Often times, not being so close to something as 'we' are in a field,
we lose sight of the fact that we are more sensitized to some things than
those more casually involved.  I think it _is_ safe to say that we are
fortunate that the writers of our fine game don't ask, "Well, those planets
up there, how did we find out there names."  Then I would say we have
cause for concern.

   Fortunately, I really doubt that we have to worry all that much.
Thanks for copying me offline with your comments as my machine is down at
home, so right now, most of my digests are adding up on floppy diskettes.


Leroy Guatney - lwlg@usa.net
 University of Mars, NorthAm Campus
 Class of '98

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:44:09 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: T4 Rules

> Rules Mix:          80% T4, 20% CT, MT, TNE, and assorted house rules

I've enjoyed reading over these "Live Campaign" posts, and one thing has intrigued me.  
There are a heck of a lot more people out there using T4 rules than the
pulse of he TML has shown.

I thought I was in the minority, since so many have complained that the
simplicity of T4,  But, by looking at these posts, clearly T4 rules are
used by more people--at least from those who have posted.

That's good news for the health of the game from where I'm sitting.

Of course, nobody is using T4 straight, and I wondered about this.  When
I run other games, I usually only use the rules in that rules system.

In D&D, I only use D&D rules.  In Star Trek, I only use Star Trek rules.

I'm seeing that in Traveller rules too, except most other games don't
have 4 editions!

I know D&D had three editions--Basic, Advanced, and Second Edition
Advanced.  Star Wars had a little known about three editions, although
they only claimed to have two--there was the original Star Wars rules,
then there was an improved version right after the game came out kinda
like T4.1, and then they released the Second Edition.

What am I getting to here with all this dribble?

It's the thought that it looks like most Traveller games today are based
on T4 and use those rules for 70-80% of their rules.  Then, from the
other three editions, certain things are pulled for another 20-30%. And
finally, there's the house rules that any self-respecting GM will have
(I know I've made some for any game I've played at any length of time).

My perception used to be that only bits and pieces of T4 were used by
the majority of T4 players, with healthy does of the games other
editions thrown in.

I'm glad to see, at least unofficially by this poll, that I'm wrong
about that.

T4 rules are alive and well within the Traveller gaming community.  

We've got 20 years of Traveller material from four other editions!  It
would be a waste to not include some of those rules in our games.  After
all, they are Traveller, and it is not like pulling from another game
(which, of course, is done).

That makes me feel much better about T4 rules and the health of the game
at whole.

After you've read the umpteenth post about T4 doom (some of my previous
posts included), you start to believe it.

I think T4 is alive and well.

And, I'm not just saying that.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:50:10 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump space

Robert Ringrose wrote:
> 
> PCs being the destructive beings that they are, it is only a matter of time
> until someone, accidentally or on purpose, expells something from the ship
> while it is in jumpspace.
> 
> What happens?  Does a ship going into jump "zone" an area around it, too, and
> thus the expelled material will come out of jump next to the ship, or is the
> pseudo-science of jumpspace wierder than that?  Is there any way to retrieve
> the material, er, PC, that just got blown off the ship?

The Jump-field contains a bit of normal space within a few meters or so
of the ship's hull, anything that drifts beyond that gets irretrevably
lost. Either by having atom by atom dispersed across the universe as it
crosses the jumpfield boundry, or by having the object "misjump" and
precipitate randomly into normal space.

In either case, if the object is living, it won't be for much longer.
And no, it doesn't appear next to the ship when it enters normalspace
unless it is tethered to the ship within that few meters. If it is
thrown out an airlock, it continues in motion (Newton's laws still apply
within those few meters) until it contacts the jumpspace boundry --
phfffttthhh *pop*

> Another way to answer this would be to point me at something which has a
> semi-canonical "theoretical" basis for jumpspace.  I'm looking for something
> which won't contradict existing Traveller stuff at a later date.

I have been collecting and compiling a quasi-canonical pseodo-scientific
handwave for the miracle of jump travel. I'm still in the "process of
editing" (read: haven't had time to finish) and so I haven't posted a
final version yet. [my poor languishing website is due for an update]

For now, though, you might want to check out my Jumpspace FAQ, an
attempt to answer frequently asked questions regarding jumpspace, using
previous Traveller material. It tries to be as close to "canon" as
possible. See the following URL:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275/

Glenn Hoppe
Jumpspace Archivist and Theoreticist

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:58:24 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:35:34 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen
<rancke@diku.dk>
>Here's how it would work: You designate a fairly large sphere a bit outside
>the jump limit as the arrival area. All ships know that they have to arrive
>within that area (It's the law). You have as many patrol ships as the traffic
>warrants stationed there. When a ship arrives it is given a place in a queue
>and told to wait. While the ship is waiting it is inspected by the patrol.
>Any ship with weapons have them deactivated. Once the 'Orbital Guard' has
>made sure of the ship's identity and general harmlessness it is allowed to
>proceed down to the surface.

Well, you still have ships just plain jumping in someplace
other than they intended.  You also could have a ship posing
a merchant until the patrol pulls up and then launching a
suprise attack (which is why you need to have multiple ships
of decent size).  However, the main question is, is it worth
the fuel.   There is an optimum place to jump from for each planet,
and, if you have carefulling arranged to have your velocity
vector favorably alligned as you come out of jump, having to
stop and be inspected is also a waste of fuel.  Given how
small the actual loses due to priracy are, I'm not sure it
would be seen as worth it.

>If piracy is a problem then ships will use the designated arrival and
>departure areas. Losing a few hours may be distressing for a merchant,
>but not nearly as distressing as losing a cargo (Or getting a thumping
>fine for violating regulations).

It depends.  If one in 10,000 ships looses a cargo to piracy
then it may not be.  And in fact, piracy is never seen as
more than an occaisonal problem in Traveller (except for
organised piracy/raiding from the Extents which are another
ball of wax).

>>Well, Regina has to have a dozen patrols just for the main world (and
>>in fact, you want them in twos or threes since you don't want to make
>>sure that they will be able to out gun the pirate).
>
>A world like Regina will have a lot more than a few paltry 400 T patrol
>ships. 70% of its naval budget goes to system defenses. That's all those
>orbital fortresses and cruiser-sized SDBs that has to hang around anyway
>to prevent Mr. Zho from coming calling. They should be able to deal with
>a pirate or two while they're waiting.
>
>>And then you are going to need ships to spell them.  And then you are going
>>to have to patrol all the other inhabited worlds and also the gas giants.

Sure, I agree that Piracy around Regina won't happen.  But
when you start talking about doing this on all those other
worlds in situations where you do have to take away from
planetary defenses, it's another story.

>The other worlds, yes, the Gas Giants, no. Splitting your naval strength
>in two or three is simply an invitation to be defeated in detail.

So you think that piracy might occur around a Gas Giant?

>>Then you have to convince them to spare a dozens of ships to guard each
>>of all those fringe marginal planets.
>
>They could well spare them, but they won't have to. That's one of the
>things the Imperial Navy will do for them.

I don't agree.  You yourself point out the problem with splitting
defense.  As far as the Zhos go, Regina is in the middle of
a huge bull's eye.  They aren't going to be dispersing forces
to backwater worlds casually.

>>But the numbers of ships I see it as taking, and the minor costs the
>>piracy causes the Imperium to suffer, I don't see it as being a big
>>worthwhile.
>
>It's my impression that most governments don't like pirates.

They don't like a lot of things.  They also don't like smuggling,
but they don't dislike it so bad as to have 10 people search
every ship after every jump from top to bottom.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:13:27 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Mystery Challenge

I forwarded Brian's "Mystery Challenge" to my players.  One wrote back,
speaking in character.  

Vaan Praygor is the Captain/owner of our ship.  He's also an Imperial
Baron from a lawless planet in the Spinward Marches--Tureded.  On top of
this, he's the ex-crime bosses for one of the big Houses on Tureded,
House Praygor.  These Houses control the black market in the area.

His House was the largest some years ago when a blood fued broke out
between his House and House Jade.  Then, disater struck when House Jade
merged with House London to become the largest House on the planet.

The Jadist utterly destroyed House Praygor about a year ago.  Vaan's
father was killed, making Vaan an Imperial Baron.  Now, he's on the run
from the Jadist's, hopping from planet to planet (can't stay anywhere
too long!) in a little merchant vessels--The March Harrier.

Given this, you can see my player's comments are in character.

Here's Praygor's take on the "Mystery Challenge".


Steve.Roberts@airliquide.com wrote:
> 
> Redmon was planted on the ship.  She and her associates killed the engineer
> and dumped the body in the hotel.  She then wasted the only 2 suspects so
> they couldn't talk.  Now whoever wanted be on the inside is.  Personally,
> Praygor would have allowed her to come on board as part of the crew and
> blasted off to space.  Once in jump, I would have tortured her to get her
> to talk (truth drug to start).  I would know the full story before I was
> done.  Depending on the story, she very easily would have been dumped with
> the trash in space (nobody was supposed to know she was on board.  this
> would be easy to get away with).  Funny, if I still had Tiko on board the
> Harrier, I would have done the same thing to him.  You were lucky you got
> him off my ship.
> 
>                                                                         Vaan Praygor
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:28:53 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T97#1867] H. Beam Piper

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:32:29 -0400, Glenn Myers
<gem188@ansyspo.ansys.com> wrote:

>Have you read the modified Lord Kalvan short story contained in =
Federation?=20
>It makes a great background for a traveller adventure.

Actually, the story behind that story is that Piper originally
wrote it the way it appears in "Federation".  His editor at the
time, John Campbell, had some problems with the concept of
parallel evolution, and suggested that he (Piper) rewrite it to
fit in with "that paratime series we did a while back".  So,
"When in the Course" isn't a modified "Lord Kalvan" story, "Lord
Kalvan of Otherwhen" is a rewrite of "When in the Course".

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:28:32 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T97#1861] Metric System...

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:44:53 -0400, Glenn Hoppe
<starcity@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:

>On 1997-09-20 22:34, Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote =
the=20
>following:

>>> The Metric system is a scientific system. For a Science Fiction game =
why=20
>>> would I expect to see an Archaic, non-rational, and hard to use =
system of=20
>>> weights and measures?=20

>>Ah yes, nice scientific and rational... Like having your unit of mass
>>be determined by a hunk of platinum in France. :-)

>Actually, I thought it was an iridium-platinum alloy, but I'll try not =
to=20
>be nitpicky. ;-)

No, the Pt/Ir alloy was the Standard Metre.  The Standard
Kilogramme is pure Pt.

I believe that right now, the kilogramme is defined in terms of
Atomic Mass Units, one of which is exactly one-twelfth of the
weight of a C12 nucleus.

Currently, I believe that all Standard Units are defined in terms
of reproducible experiments - the metre is defined in terms of
wavelengths of light produced under specific circumstances (an
electron transition), the second is defined in terms of the meter
(that time in which light travels 299..... metres), the
kilogramme in terms of atomic mass units, and so on.  Most of the

"odd" values of the current definitions are simply so that they
remain compatible with the values developed using less precise
and less reproduceable methods - it would certainly be easy
enough to define the "metre" to be some power of ten times the
wavelenghth of the light emitted by a particular electron
transition, and the "second" as some power of ten times the
amount of time needed for light in vacuum to travel one "meter",
and so on, but that would result in scientific units that are
divorced from experience.  Not necessarily a bad thing, but
psychologically unsatisfying, which is why it hasn't happened.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:18:03 -0600
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump space

Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
> 
> >What happens?  Does a ship going into jump "zone" an area around it, too, and
> >thus the expelled material will come out of jump next to the ship, or is the
> >pseudo-science of jumpspace wierder than that?  Is there any way to retrieve
> >the material, er, PC, that just got blown off the ship?
> 
> In my setting, jump space is a misnomer. "Jump space" is not actually a
> place where our four dimensional concepts of realspace make sense. A craft
> going from one place to another without crossing the intervening distance
> is "outside" of spacetime -- essentially a ship in jump is in its own
> pocket universe, one you cannot leave.

Sounds a lot like the jumpspace I imagine. It's just that "jumpspace"
sounds a lot nicer than "jump-not-really-space-per-se".

> Actually, the entire concept of jumps that take an amount of time to
> complete goes against my own sense of elegance. Personally, I would much
> prefer jumps that are instantaneous. This comes from a verrry limited
> understanding of cosmology and a dislike for the obvious handwave of a jump
> taking about one week (what a coincidence!). Unfortunately, this would kill
> the "age of sail" feel of the Traveller universe, something that is also
> unacceptable to me.

In my Traveller universe, jumps *are* instantaneous. It just takes a
week to get out of that "pocket universe" which we call jumpspace. My
personal favourite handwave for why it takes a week to "precipitate"
into normal space is the following:

The reaction which creates the jumpspace field which allows the starship
to enter jumpspace cannot be stopped once it has begun. It's a terribly
energetic reaction coursing through the lanthanum grid, it is difficult
to control, and impossible to stop. As long as this reaction continues,
the ship remains in that "alternate universe" which we call "jumpspace".
Only when the reaction is complete will the ship precipitate into normal
space.

Centuries of Jump drive design have tuned materials and methods to the
point where a controlled jump-grid discharge can be accomplished in one
week +/- 10%, so therefore that's how long jumps take. Equations
required for controlled jumps beyond 6 parsecs have proven, thus far,
impossible to solve.

To me, the reasons why a jump takes a week are pretty irrelevant. A
suitable pseudo-theory can be handwaved into existence. What *is*
important, is that it *does* take a week. That's a pretty important
cornerstone of Traveller history and interstellar society.

> As if what I thought had any relevance to anyone but myself! :)
> 
> Anyway, one idea I toyed with was that jumps take the standard amount of
> time from the viewpoint of the real universe, but are instantaneous from
> the viewpoint of those on board the ship. In this case, the crew never gets
> a chance to try and explore jump space, because time doesn't exist for them
> when they are there (and thus, they can't do anything at all).
> 
> I have never run a game like this, and I wonder what the effect would be on
> the crews of intersteller vessels (those weeks would add up, creating a
> "twin brothers" problem of sorts).

It's an interesting varient, it's been mentioned before, but it's
totally unlike the Traveller universe as published. Trips are supposed
to be leisurely, pleasure cruises, not unlike cruise ships today, where
all kinds of intrigue and hank-panky can take place for that week
outside the normal universe.

Jumps aren't supposed to be "step in an elevator, and press 'Rhylanor.'"
Why would ships have staterooms in that case? Boooooriiiinggg

> All of this, of course, depends on how you want to play. I once ran a
> heretical space opera Traveller campaign (complete with the supernatural)
> where jump space was actually the astral plane (of AD&D fame). Amazingly
> enough, according to one AD&D source, it takes about a week to travel from
> one distant place to another on the astral plane, regardless of the actual
> intravening distance. What a coincidence! ;)

I'm still toying with the idea that jumpspace is related to the "astral
plane" concept, and may even be the medium through which different forms
of psionics (clarivoyance, teleportation, etc.) operates. Why not?

good travelling!

- -- Glenn Hoppe

Who begs the list's indulgence for once again spouting off his crazy
jumpspace views, but it appears there's some "newbies" who haven't heard
him yet...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:46:41 +0100
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: Re: CJ Cherryh - Finity's End

>Has anyone on the list read "Finity's End"(*) yet, and if so, is it worth
it?
[No spoilers]

I read it a couple of months ago in review-paperback. We've been discussing
it on the CJ Cherryh List for some time (jaymin@maths.tcd.ie). Certainly, I
would advocate buying it. I have always found Cherryh's books to be
particularly relevant to Traveller. Finity's End is more so than most.

It concerns the operation of the merchant ship "Finity's End". For those
not familiar with the background, it is a independant merchant ship in the
large end of the scale. We get a good understanding of the day-to-day life
of a merchant ship both in space and on the docks. We gain an insight into
the business end (although perhaps not so much as in Tripoint), but most
particularly the society of merchanters.

Much of the background tension in the book comes from trying to balance the
interests of the large government subsidised liners against the small
independants. The small independants are drifting toward smuggling and
guerrilla support because of the higher profitability and higher jump level
of the subsidised liners.

There is also good material on low-tech aliens existing within a high-tech
human society.

For Cherryh fans, this is a must-have. For Traveller fans, get it from the
library or wait for the paperback.

Cheers,
Jo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:48:56 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

Victor J. Raymond wrote:
> I also would expect that there would be lots of maintenance parts to consider, replacements for filters, light-bulb equivalents, etc., etc.  Too much handwaving about ultrasonic cleaners and Nevr-Fail lighttubes misses the point that ships do have wear-and-tear, as well as richochets from gauss rifles, etc.  You might bundle these into a general maintenance pool, but you ought not forget it.

Victor,

Good thoughts!  (although you need to adjust the lines on your posts!)

TNE went into some detail about maintenance aboard a starship.  Costs
are figured into regular charges like lifesupport, etc.  But, there was
a roll for a ship's maintence.  I don't remember how it worked, but I
think each ship had a maintenance number.  This was rolled (or less)
each week, or each time the ship jumps.  Missing the roll meant the ship
needed maintenance, and something broke.

Also, IIRC, each ship had a dedicated number of hours that maintenance
must be performed on the ship each week.  I think the 400 ton subsidized
merchant required 180 hours worth of work--which tells you what every
body is doing on the ship during jump!

I may pull out these TNE rules and use them in my game, but this is
different from what I was looking for in the Port Authority Checklist.

I'm trying to put together a list of specific equipment, from the
equipment listings in each editon of Traveller, that the characters need
to buy as a minimum to keep the ship running.

Things like vacc suits are a necessity.  There's got to be requirements,
like how many life preservers a water vessel must have, for space
vessels.

I'm trying to detail the ship, equipment wise.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:38:28 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump space

At 01:38 PM 9/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>What happens?  Does a ship going into jump "zone" an area around it, too,
and
>>thus the expelled material will come out of jump next to the ship, or is the
>>pseudo-science of jumpspace wierder than that?  Is there any way to retrieve
>>the material, er, PC, that just got blown off the ship?

In my game, once you get outside the field generated by the jump grid, JS
eats you.  What it does with you after that is up to DM whimsy, but I start
out assuming that it is about as friendly an environment as the accretion
disk around a small black hole.

>Actually, the entire concept of jumps that take an amount of time to
>complete goes against my own sense of elegance. Personally, I would much
>prefer jumps that are instantaneous. This comes from a verrry limited
>understanding of cosmology and a dislike for the obvious handwave of a jump
>taking about one week (what a coincidence!).

From my own understanding, it seems reasonable.  There is no requirement
that the coordinate systems of the ship and the universe match up once they
reconnect in normal space.  Now if you are using some kind of ER bridge,
where the ship never left normal spacetime, then the objection stands.

> Unfortunately, this would kill
>the "age of sail" feel of the Traveller universe, something that is also
>unacceptable to me.

Just use something like an Alderson drive a la "Mote in God's Eye", where
you spend a significant time puttering around in normal space, but no time
in jump.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:32:17 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: starship design in T4.1

At 12:05 PM 9/25/97 -0400, Marc wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-25 00:20:29 EDT, you write:
>
><< I'm beginning to gather
> from Marc's posts that essentially everything in FFS2 is going to be
>ignored.
> This doesn't necessarily seem like a good decision... >>
>
>Your assumption is incorrect.

Cool!

This is what I wanted to hear.  FF&S seemed solid, and I wanted to be sure
that it would stay valid.   I will now go back into my cave to design
subsector maps.

One thing that I would really like to see at some point is a ship design
system based around "wrap something around the mission package."  This
should be derived from FF&S2, and a few assumptions.  This is not a new
system, so much as a different way of presenting the data in the old
system, to make it easier to design that naval vessel with the 18 inch
guns, er, I mean 10TW meson beam.

To do this would mean find some way to overestimate, but not terribly, how
many crew members re needed for a given amount of power plant and a given
amount of jump drive.  Then, determine the space, power, and other needs of
the mission package, and multiply by a factor.

Example:

"The type S meson cannon is 10000t.  It requires 7000MW.  At TL 15, this
means 1000 M^3 of fusion plant, and 3 engineers.  Their bunks are in the
standard 16 stateroom package, which also holds the weaponry crew, the
maintenance crew, and 12/50th of the doctor needed for the crew of this
weapon (ick!)

"The total size of the weapon package is 10350t, and it produces a power
surplus of 7000MW when not operating, and has no extra staterooms under
normal circumstances.

To build a ship around this weapon, use Chart 1 for the multiplier for
thruster drives, Chart 2 for the multiplier for jump drives, and Chart 3
for the hull size multiplier."

To do this, we would need to work backwards, to figure the amount of life
support, C3I, staterooms, screens, and other junk a given hunk of stuff
requires, and then a set of multipliers by tech level for the various
drives, hull, and other goodies.

Is there any interest in working the FF&S numbers backwards in this way?

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1875
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 26 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1876



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Port Authority Checklist
Re: Interstellar Wars Colonization
(Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
Memories
Re: Choice
Re: Mike Peters
THUDDD 6: Entries on web, ballots out soon
Re: Memories
Re: Jump space
Re: Memories
Re: Coping and Legal stuff
Re: Jump space
Re: A gearhead/techie proposal
non-human obscure races
re:World Builder's Handbook - program?
Re: starship design in T4.1
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: Choice
Re: NEW ship design system??
(no subject)
Taglines

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:20:58 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

Moin Kenneth Bearden,

	Per room, normaly near the airlock or stateroom door

	- oyxgen torches (Tl6 german U-Boat type)
	- personal fire stopper (dont know the right english term now)

	Once in the ships locker :

	- 3 or more EVA suits, a vac suite is ok, when pressure in
	  a ship drops, but you should better have a eva suite for going
	  outside.
	- medical scaner, and a steward able to use it ( he needs to
	  pass a test, if hes not medical doctor ) together with state
	  of the art medkid, if the ship is offering medium passage.
	- maintaince and repair tools worth several tens KCr.
	- emergency sensor package, emergency radio package
	  for the case ship sensors are broken.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:47:01 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Interstellar Wars Colonization

Moin Scott Ellsworth,

	interesting idea.

> This meant, IMHO, that at the outbreak of the ISW, there were a whole bunch
> of Vilani-colonized worlds at various tech levels between about 5 and 10,
> with the vast majority at TL9, and the populations at ~50 million.

	My formular (10^TL)/(2^MaintModifier) gives break even for
	sustaining TL9 to 62.5 million people so when most worlds
	are around 50 million and I'm asuming Jump1 for trade the
	break even for TL10 (312.5 million people) will not be reached.

	The Vilani Empire should have some hot spots with Jump2 trade
	and Tl11 worlds of population code of 8 or higher, but limiteding
	the population code to 7 would limit the techlevel of that area
	to Tl9.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:55:31 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

Bruce E J Lewis wrote:
> 
> At 14:27 23/09/97 -0600, Leroy William Lu Guatney wrote:
> >I recently picked up the Milieu: 0 Campaign book by Imperium Games.  While
> >it is true that this new hardcover book from IG incorporates previously
> >published materials (M:0 sourcebook, First Survey), it also includes a _lot_
> >of new material that any fan of Traveller would like to have for their
> >campaign, or their knowledge of the Third Imperium.  I can say that I wish
> >this kind of stuff had been around in the Classic Traveller era.  Any fan of
> >the Imperium _must_ have this book.
> 
>         Sounds good, does anyone know if this new material will be available
> seperately? Having bought M0 and First Survey, I don't feel obliged to
> spend money twice on these products, espech when First Survey is useless
> anyway.


Same here.  I'd like the info, but I already have M0 and First Survey.

When the great M0 debate was taking place, many of us were pleading with
IG to let us--first purchasers of M0 and FS--have this info for free.

Or maybe even a small charge.  I'd glady pay for the 30 or so pages,
photocopied even.

How about it Marc?  Will you take care of your customers who rushed out
and bought first printings of FS and M0?

Kenneth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:26:49 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Memories

Moin Glenn Crawford,

> Ah yes. Mem-reez, like the corners of my mind, misty water col<slap>

	my hotest story made Lutz on the "Mother Ship" :

	two of the crew (player and npc's) got caught by Norman
	when they tried to sneak into the sensor lines of the Archer,
	and degraded for "adopted Children" to the "Oiks" status.
	Lutz playing a priest of holy Leibowitz, had while living
	with the Oinks (where he tried to improve sanitary education,
	and health ;-) still free movement anywhere on the ship
	because he hade good relations to the different robots, as
	he came free will from his world as "present" of its starport.

	now Stephan was worring about the next battle, and that the
	Oinks dont have vac-suites (unlike the children), so he asked
	Lutz if he could manage to get his vac-suite to the Oinks quaters.
	Lutz replied, that he would do it, if Stephon would become a
	member of his church. Just a short ceremony in 2 hours at church
	meeting and lunch. Stephan sayed "OK". And Lutz had his ceremony.

	Lutz words (badly remebemered, and translated)

		And now I enlight Stephan to apprentice ship of the
		church of holy Leibowitz as the master of the chair.

	he placed his chair behind Stephans chair, and took his pocket
	spotlight and placed it behind Stephans head. As we played this
	in the nearly dark kitchen (the living room was claimed to be
	under mothers watching) it was a quite impressive ritual of
	his religion as a technical priest.


- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:55:27 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Choice

Kenneth Bearden writes:

>David J. Golden wrote:
>> 
>>On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:11:35 +0000 Kenneth Bearden
>>I just came back, and
>>I've already seen things that lead me to think Marc is ignoring FF&S2 for
>>Yet Another Ship Design System. Which will completely blow the flame out
>>for me. It's already flickering pretty badly.
>
>I used to feel the same way as you do, but I've adopted another
>attitude.  Being constantly disappointed is not a way I want to live,
>especially in reference to my favorite role playing game.
>
>For me, Traveller is pick and choose.  There is wealth of items to pick
>from out there.

   True enough.  While I use the TNE game mechanics (with very slight
mods), I am not above borrowing from other sources if they can be
adapted easily to my game.

>If I've got four or five ways to design ship, that should be an
>advantage (hey, I'm trying here).

   Well it is *if* you can find your own consistent method and rules for
design.  Problem gets to be when you decide to share your designs
outside your own gaming group.  A real "Tower of Babel" scenario has
been set up.

>I look at it like this.  Recently, I've been evaluating space combat
>systems.  We've got the one in the original CT books.  We've got High
>Guard.  And, we've got Mayday.
>
>Then, we've got the MT space combat system from those original three
>books.
>
>Next, we've got Brilliant Lances, Battle Rider, and the original BL like
>system in the TNE main book.

   So far as I've been able to determine here is the Traveller sequence
of design systems:

   1) Book 2

   2) High Guard/TCS (HG was compatible with B2, in fact drive systems
in 
      B2 could be used in HG ships; TCS merely amplified HG--it wasn't a 
      seperate system)

   3) MegaTraveller (plus all the mods necessary because of errata)

   4) Brilliant Lances/FF&S I (the design sequence in both gives identical 
      ships; Battlerider used the same system, just a different method of 
      evaluating ships)

   Under Marc Miller's Traveller, we have had:

   1) Whatever was used to create the vessels in Starships

   2) QSDS/SSDS

   3) FF&S II

   4) The new system proposed by Marc Miller for MMT 4.1


>Other games don't have that kind of choice. 
>
>So, I'm looking at it as a benefit for Traveller.

   It would be had all of the above systems been compatible with each
other to some degree.  Unfortunately, some are "sort of" compatible, and
others are not compatible at all.

>As far as the ship construction system for T4 goes, we've got a lot of
>choice in that too.  I would prefer something like a basic system, a
>middle of the road system, and a specific-screw-nut-and-bolt system--all
>backwardly compatible--like QSDS, SSDS, and FF&S2 were originally hoped
>to be.

   I had a dream...

>I'm all for constantly trying to make Traveller better, but I've decided
>to sit back, enjoy the hell out of my own campaign, and just use the
>items I want without bothering about items that I don't think are worth
>buying.

   Welcome!  You've just joined the ranks of the Traveller Sanity Club. 
I completed the 12 Step Program myself back in 1996.  You'll find now
that you have more cash to buy things like minatures for your campaign,
you'll sleep better at night not worrying about the financial health of
the current game manufacturer, and you'll have time to do the important
things in life, like defend Traveller canon.  :-)

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:09:17 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Mike Peters

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Mike,
>
> I thought that you might be interested in how well your explanation went
> over with the player playing the Captain of our vessel...
>

Kenneth,

Thanks for the kind words. It's pleasant to hear someone agrre with a ruling
rather than try to argue a work -around (I have couple of guys that can make a
Ref's head spin! ... of course I can be that way too, when I'm on the other side
of the table ;). If your player is really interested in improving the defences of
his ship I'd recommend looking into some good point defense systems, nuclear
dampers, etc. Of  course then he also has to look at his Power Plant. But I won't
mention it to him, I like watching the gears turn when a player wrestles with an
idea!.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:36:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 6: Entries on web, ballots out soon

THUDDD 6 (low-tech SDB) entries may now be viewed at the THUDDD website
(http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/thuddd.html).  Ballots will be sent
out late tonight or tomorrow.  Enjoy!  There are some very cool ships in
this batch...

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 16:48:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Memories

On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Michael Koehne wrote:

> 	Lutz playing a priest of holy Leibowitz, had while living

Wow!  'A Canticle for Leibowitz', there's a book I haven't thought of for
a long, long time!  An excellent work for those of you who are looking for
'Long Night' type stories!

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 19:10:17 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Jump space

> Just use something like an Alderson drive a la "Mote in God's Eye", where
> you spend a significant time puttering around in normal space, but no
time
> in jump.


I had thought of that, but the ability for an xboat to come out of
jumpspace and send info to the next lets the exchange of information happen
pretty rapidly. For instance, I liked the idea that news of the emperor's
assassination didn't reach the Spinward Marches until months after it had
actually happened. Quick jumps would deep-six that idea.

Still, increasing the safe jump point, say to a few AU out from the largest
mass in the system (i.e., the main star), would slow traffic down a bit. It
just wouldn't slow the exchange of information all that much.


<snipped from another post>
> It's an interesting varient, it's been mentioned before, 

Ai ya! And I thought I was being original! :)

> but it's
> totally unlike the Traveller universe as published. Trips are supposed
> to be leisurely, pleasure cruises, not unlike cruise ships today, where
> all kinds of intrigue and hank-panky can take place for that week
> outside the normal universe.

> Why would ships have staterooms in that case?


If you have to travel from a long way out in normal space, you'll need
those staterooms. And I imagine there would be plenty of time for on-board
stuff.

It's just that darned information-exchange thing!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:24:58 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Memories

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Great Story!
>
> Role playing has incredible addictive properties.  You've just described
> the effect!
>
> Kenneth.

Thanks.Here's one more short one that the list might find a bit humorous. It
happened about 3-4 games after the first story, and I was determined to get a
little pay back from the players.

They reached a planet somewhere in the Marches, I don't remember which, but it had
a tech level of about 8 or so. The game started out interestingly enough, a new
player came into the game and they met him in an interesting way.

After procuring hanger space for the penance, (hauling that thing from planet to
planet was just starting to take a real bite out of their pocket books, but they
did not have a star ship among the group...yet.), they had tried to pass through
customs, carrying everything they owned. That included some rather lethal hardware
that the local law frowned upon. This little slip landed them in the local holding
tank while the LAW checked out their backgrounds. That's where they met Glen, who
was a wealthy fourth son of a noble that had gotten a little to intoxicated the
night before.

Anyway they were finally let out after a nights free lodging, without their
weapons. They also had to pay a healthy fine for trying to 'import' contraband,
(yes, they carried THAT MUCH!), so they were looking for a way to make some quick
money.

They were approached by a group representing a small village well away from the
population centers around the star port, where I played a little loose with the
law level, ruling that the listed level pertained primarily to the urban areas.
These villagers were looking for some help against an armed band that was
extorting money from them. The players should have thought it through a bit but
didn't and agreed to help free the villagers from their oppressors.

So the first thing they needed was weapons. Now I knew these players, and two of
them were real die hard war gamers that just tolerated the RPG stuff while waiting
for the next Panzerfest. So I conned them a bit.

When they managed to locate a local, ah procurement agent, he just happened to
have a COUPLE of light APC's in stock, basically wheeled ATV's with a light cannon
on top. They couldn't resist, spending most of the upfront money that the
villagers had paid them to buy the APC's and a "few" hand weapons. Late that night
they managed to smuggle them out of the city and made their way to the village,
about two days distant. The penance pilot remained behind to bring it forward in
and provide "air support" when the planned attack was to happen

They loaded a half dozen or so fighters onboard (village NPC's) and stormed the
walled fortress the oppressor was using for a headquarters. A fast and furious
battle ensued, which they, of course, won.
About then the penance showed up, (convieniantly AFTER the fighting) with some
news he had gathered while still in the city.

It seems that the oppressor in question, that they had just killed, along with his
men, was really the .....LOCAL TAX COLLECTOR!

So here they sat having just murdered a local official with only a little time to
figure out how to escape. It was then that Glen spoke up saying that he owned a
star ship, sitting on the pad back at the star port. Quickly Glen and Gary, the
penance pilot set out to retrieve the ship for a get away. In the mean time Mike
and Lou (the wargamers) asked about the ship Glen had, in particular whither their
new toys (the APCs) would fit in the cargo hold.

Well, I said, They could fit any two of the three vehicles, penance, or the two
APCs. Since the penance would be loaded aboard when it reached them, that left
room for...one APC.

An evil light came into their eyes, at about the same moment, and they reached for
their dice. For the next half hour or so I sat back and called out to-hit numbers
as the two APCs sat across a court yard from each other and pounded each other to
mush!

When Glen's ship arrived ant the non-combatant members of the party were inboard
Mike and Lou still continued to fire on each other. Each was intent that his APC
would be the one to go. By the time they were done, both bleeding a crippled
character was dragged out of a smoldering wreak and forcibly carried inboard. They
launched just as the government troops approached.

The moral this time? Greed can be used without turning a game into dungeon crawl.
Both players were only half interested in RAG, but both spoke about this as one of
THEIR most memorable game for, literally. years. Yet they walked away with nothing
to show for their efforts.

Sorry for the long story again, (but this thread is bringing back such really GOOD
memories, and it beats another PoD epic!)
Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:52:12 -0400
From: Thomas Walter Trelenberg <tomt@scri.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Coping and Legal stuff

*****************************
I've refrained from replying to direct insults, but now you take the
Lord's 
name in vain, for which I am sure you will not apologize, no matter how 
offensive your behaviour.
******************************

Thanks for pointing this out.  I hate to see this happen on the list as
well.  We often talk about not offending others on the list as to
nationality, or ethnicity, and for most religious beliefs....but there
are some of us TMLers who are Christians as well and as I have seen
things like this a lot on the list lately (not to single out anyone in
particular--this is a general request)....Please, think that this is
important to some of us.  I know that many people think that such
statements add "umpfff" to your arguement....I guess I can't speak for
other people, but for me winning any of the verious flame wars on the
TML was not based on how generally nasty any of the comments became.

Also....sorry this is so far removed from the post that prompted me to
reply...but I'm about 20 digests behind.

Thanks

TT

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:51:03 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Jump space

On 25 Sep 97 at 15:18, Glenn Hoppe wrote:
> I'm still toying with the idea that jumpspace is related to the "astral
> plane" concept, and may even be the medium through which different forms
> of psionics (clarivoyance, teleportation, etc.) operates. Why not?

Another interesting twist could be a parasite that attaches itself to the ship 
hull in normal space and is mutated by the 'jump' process.  You then have a 
one-week Alien episode while the crew battles this trouble while in 'jump'.

Who knows what happens to the parasite if it goes back into 'normal' space.


You could even have jumpspace link different dimensions, universes, etc...

Jump sounds like an opportunity for RP :)


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:49:33 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: A gearhead/techie proposal

>What physical problems would the TML gearheads like to see computer modeled?

I don't claim to be a gearhead, but I would like to have the effect of
physical/plasma bolt impacts, X-ray lasers, particle beams, and nuclear
explosions on typical hull materials modeled.

>I work in the engineering analysis software field for a company which
>produces "Multi-Physics Analysis Software". Our product, ANSYS, can solve
>nearly any physical design problem given enough computer resources and
>modelling effort.

Cool! If the gearhead don't take advantage of this offer they have nothing
but gears in their heads ;-)

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 19:50:02 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: non-human obscure races

One of my players is interested in playing a non-human character.
He's asked about three races, of which I have very little info.
Does anyone know about the following:

Race		Home World
Githiaskio	Githiaski/Dartho  (Antares 2406)
Shi'awei	Chaosheo/Star Lane (Deneb 0130)
Thorellians	Thorell/Nicosia (Old Expanses 0231)
- -- 
Erwin Fritz
Unix/NT/LAN Guy
Gilbert Laustsen Jung Associates Ltd.
http://www.glja.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:53:59 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: re:World Builder's Handbook - program?

At 12:19 am 09/25/97 +0100, you wrote:

>You want a copy of Rob Prior's Metator, and a Mac to run it on. You can
>download it from:
>
>http://www.interlog.com/~dmci104/GamingClub/Traveller/software.html

	I tried to download a Mac from the link, and couldn't. Besides, I'd be
more interested in downloading a Dec Alpha--do you have a link for that?
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:45:44 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: starship design in T4.1

At 12:05 pm 9/25/97 -0400, CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-25 00:20:29 EDT, you write:
>
><< I'm beginning to gather
> from Marc's posts that essentially everything in FFS2 is going to be
>ignored.
> This doesn't necessarily seem like a good decision... >>
>
>Your assumption is incorrect.

	Well, that certainly sounds relieving. If you need some help "simplifying"
FF&S2 or decoding the mishmash that resulted when a draft got printed, I'm
certainly willing to help clarify things.

	And if you'd like to "fix" some of the errata while you're at it, again,
call on me anytime!

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:15:37 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

XatoKuom@aol.com writes:

> Has anyone on the list come up with any ideas for armor combat in the
> Traveller?  It seems to me that the ability to "ignore"(no one can 
> truly ignore) terrain limitations would throw all present concepts of 
> armored conflict out the window.

   Not exactly.  Flying above terrain features would be a quick way to
assure that you will be going home in a body bag (or at least walking
home).

   Why?  Because you present yourself as a clear target to every bad guy
within weapons range.  While terrain would not be as much of an obstacle
as it was in the past (you still have to get all those battledress
equipped infantry to the other side of the river and battledress doesn't
float), having lots of woods, hills, and similar features around to hide
behind or in would be a good idea.

   Think helicopter tactics...

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:19:49 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Choice

Harold Hale wrote:

> >As far as the ship construction system for T4 goes, we've got a lot of
> >choice in that too.  I would prefer something like a basic system, a
> >middle of the road system, and a specific-screw-nut-and-bolt system--all
> >backwardly compatible--like QSDS, SSDS, and FF&S2 were originally hoped
> >to be.
> 
>    I had a dream...

It was a big wish on my wish list.



>    Welcome!  You've just joined the ranks of the Traveller Sanity Club.
> I completed the 12 Step Program myself back in 1996.  You'll find now
> that you have more cash to buy things like minatures for your campaign,
> you'll sleep better at night not worrying about the financial health of
> the current game manufacturer, and you'll have time to do the important
> things in life, like defend Traveller canon.  :-)


Yes, you are right.  I was a true crusader there for a while.  This new
Traveller game was out.  I was hooked up to this list, and I was going
to do whatever I could to help make this version of Traveller the best
it had ever been.

....no, it was more than that.  I was going to do whatever it took to
from this end of the playing field to make T4 the best RPG EVER!

I've given up on that.

Now, I am just enjoying my game.

IG will make good items, and they will make bad.  It is the way it goes.

I'm not worrying about it anymore.

.....funny....I feel more relaxed now....

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: NEW ship design system??

>Wait a minute...are you saying that FF&S2 will ALREADY be invalidated?? I'm
>sorry, but this is something I will not accept. FF&S2 has flaws, yes, but
>the basic system is sound and should serve as the basis for any simpler
>ship design systems. There should be a new version of QSDS in the new T4.1,
>not an entirely new and no doubt incompatible design system. I will also be
>ending my involvement with Traveller as a game system if this occurs.

It looks like we all might have jumped the gun on this one.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:44:08 -0700
From: Ken & Mary <ke-mar@pacbell.net>
Subject: (no subject)

get index

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:59:55 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Taglines

I have not had a chance, until now, to get my mailer strings tied up, but
I did get it done tonight.  I post this for two reasons:  1) I would have
_liked_ to have had these setup earlier; and 2) I did misquote recently
Galilei for Doyle, but they are pretty close, and therefore, will always
appear together.

I have drawn many of my favorite quotes from most areas of the continuum.
I hope you like them as much as I do.

If I use one, it is not due to an attempt to proselytize, but because
something reminded me of it.

+++++------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every Communist must grasp the truth: 'Political power grows out of
the barrel of a gun.'                             --Mao Zedong

When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal.
                                                  --Richard Nixon

Facts which at first seem improbable will, even on scant explanation,
drop the cloak which has hidden them and stand forth in naked
and simple beauty.                                --Galileo Galilei

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains,
_however_ _improbable_, must be the truth.        --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Barring that natural expression of villainy which we all have, the
man looked honest enough.                         --Mark Twain

Some people wouldn't know the truth if they were smacked up side the
head with a cold, wet fish.                       --Leroy Guatney

Daddy, you can watch your Star Wars now.
 (just before bedtime, 9/25/97)                   --Lucia Guatney (4.5 years)

+++++------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last one above happened as I was writing this note. :)  I figure the
'Star Wars' part takes care of the OBTrav. :)

Oh yeah, the below was inspired early on in my first daze on TML from looking
at a T-shirt I got in Chicago at the Adler Planetarium.  Northam Campus, and
the Class of '98 was of my own inspiration.


Leroy Guatney - lwlg@usa.net
 University of Mars, NorthAm Campus
 Class of '98

Free Lessons in Democracy, Freedom of Speech, and Opinion

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1876
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 26 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1877



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: starship design in T4.1
Extended System Generation Question
Re: T4 Rules
Re: A gearhead/techie proposal
Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?
Re: Two Questions
Re: Lasers for spaceship drives
Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships
Building from the top down (was: Re: starship design in T4.1)
FF&S2 and T4.1
Challenge 75
THUDDD 6: Ballot
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
THUDDD 6: Entries (0/4)
THUDDD 6: Entries (4/4)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:31:38 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: starship design in T4.1

Well Marc, you know how rumours are..:)

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:24:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Extended System Generation Question

Okay, I wanted to clear something up from my MegaTraveller/TNE books on
Extended System Generation.  In _Step 35: Satellite Size_  "For Worlds: Roll
1D-World-Size."  This makes no sense, as smaller worlds would have bigger
moons.  The mistake in uncorrected in both books and is listed exactly the
same.  I'm reading it for now as "World Size-1D" but it still kind of needs
work maybe...

Thanks.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:30:51 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: T4 Rules

Well I'm using CT and MT rukes, mixed with Gamma World 2nd Edition (I
have all 4 editions but prefer 2nd).

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:50:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: A gearhead/techie proposal

In mail you write:

> I'd like to see just how large a ship could be and still not create too
> much gravity itself that it's support ships couldn't launch from it.

Long before you reach that point, the stresses on the structural
members will exceed those supportable by any known material. Consider
that by the time you have even 1/10th gee, you'll have the weight of
miles (probably *thousands* of miles) of structure pressing down on the
center of the ship.

Under those kinds of pressure, even things like diamond flow.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:08:51 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

In mail you write:

> Here's how it would work: You designate a fairly large sphere a bit outside
> the jump limit as the arrival area. All ships know that they have to arrive
> within that area (It's the law).

Unfortunately, natural law takes precedence. Figure the difference
between maximum and minimum jump duration. Then figure out how far the
planet moves in its orbit in that much time. *That* is the spread of
arrivals. (Hint, at 30 km/sec orbital velocity, a planet moves 108,000
in an hour). 

So your "arrival sphere" is going to be *bigger* than the 100 diameter
sphere of the planet!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:26:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: No Long Range Active Sensors?

In mail you write:

> The main problem with a non coherent form of an active(radar) is that the
> higher the frequency the greater the detail, the lower the frequency the
> longer the range. Basically it is this:
>
> High Frequency= greater details, short ranges
> Low Frequency= Longer ranges, loss of details
>
> I can remember exactly but there is limit to amount of Power(Watts) that
> you can pump into a high freq radar, after that the power(watts) is wasted.

This is almost certainly due to atmospheric absorption. The higher
radar frequencies are right in the middle of a *major* absorption band
for air. In space, this won't apply.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:19:08 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Two Questions

In mail you write:

> I was recently on a quest to satisfy my curiosity on a few random facts and
> got stuck on a couple of them.  I would really apreciate some help.
>
> 1) What is the speed of light (km/sec.)?

	299792458 m/s	*Exactly* (it's a defined constant now)
        299792.458 km/s

> 2) what distance is an AU in kilometers?

	1.496e11 m
        1.496e8  km
	 
These and many other useful facts are found in part 4 of the sci.space FAQ.

	9.46053e15 m	   -- light year
	206264.806 AU	   -- one parsec
	3.2616 light years -- one parsec
	3.0856e16 m	   -- one parsec

The Parsec is mathematically related to the AU. A parsec is
arctan(1 sec of arc)= arctan(1/1,296,000) AU

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:39:33 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Lasers for spaceship drives

Here's the info someone on the list wanted regarding photon drives...

[re-mailed to you from rec.arts.sf.science]
[the original seemed to come from max@alcyone.com]

Stefan E. Jones wrote:

> Or you can use it as a sort of photon drive. _Theoretically_ it is the
> most efficient sort of motor you can get, because the exhaust velocity
> is c! But I think that the engineering problems of turning energy
> from a reactor of any sort into a coherent beam of photons are pretty
> rough.
> 
> Also, you'd need a pretty wicked flux of photons to generate decent
> thrust. I mean, an ion drive's couple of pounds of thrust would look
> robust next to even a wicked big laser.

Indeed (without the wickeds).  The mometum of a photon is given by 

    p = E/c, 

where E is the energy of the photon, and so the thrust delivered by a
stream of them is

    dp/dt = dE/dt/c

or

    F = P/c, 

where F is the thrust and P is the power.  To get a thrust of 1 N, you
need a power of 300 MW.  Yes, three hundred megawatts.

But under ideal conditions, as you say, a photon drive would be the most
efficient drive possible.  There are, however, a lot of ideals in there.

- -- 
          Erik Max Francis, &tSftDotIotE / mailto:max@alcyone.com
                        Alcyone Systems / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
   San Jose, California, United States / icbm://37.20.07n/121.53.38w
                                      \
   "After each war there is a little / less democracy to save."
                                    / Brooks Atkinson
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:42:36 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships

I was wondering, did they ever develop a weapon that would perform the
same effect on matter as a "mis-jump" does on a starship?  Granted this
would be an extremly high tech item.

What are everyone's thoughts on a weapon of this nature?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:48:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Building from the top down (was: Re: starship design in T4.1)

>One thing that I would really like to see at some point is a ship design
>system based around "wrap something around the mission package."  This
>should be derived from FF&S2, and a few assumptions.  This is not a new
>system, so much as a different way of presenting the data in the old
>system, to make it easier to design that naval vessel with the 18 inch
>guns, er, I mean 10TW meson beam.
>
>To do this would mean find some way to overestimate, but not terribly, how
>many crew members re needed for a given amount of power plant and a given
>amount of jump drive.  Then, determine the space, power, and other needs of
>the mission package, and multiply by a factor.
>
>Is there any interest in working the FF&S numbers backwards in this way?

I like this idea and would be very interested.  I could be involved in such a
project in the near future (I have some stuff I need to work out now though
in my life).  But yes, I'd be very interested in this.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:46:21 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: FF&S2 and T4.1

> << I'm beginning to gather
>  from Marc's posts that essentially everything in FFS2 is going to be
> ignored.
>  This doesn't necessarily seem like a good decision... >>
> 
> Your assumption is incorrect.
> 
> Marc

Thank you Marc. it's nice to hear that :)

Allen
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:55:52 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Challenge 75

Can anyone help me?  I am looking for the errata for FF&S for TNE (1st
printinting) which appeared in Challenge 75.  I have misplaced my copy and
now have all the later, but not the first errata.  A bit of a problem.
Secondly, why aren't the space missiles listed (in the back of FF&S) as
having a volume?  Any help would be appreciated

                        Colin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:55:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 6: Ballot

Rate each vessel from 1 (best) to 10 (worst) in each listed category.
Do not vote for your own designs.  Ballots are processed by a program,
so please don't enter anything other than numbers 1-10 to the right
of the category-line colons.

The entries themselves will be posted shortly in a series of separate
messages.

*****

Wraith class SDB
  Andrew Akins, Seraphim Industries, Inc.
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

Balboa class SDB
  Douglas E. Berry, (not supplied)
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

Type 88621-A SDB
  Mark Clark, Generica Shipyards
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

Unicorn class SDB
  Idiot/Savant, New Victoria Naval Architects
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

Kukri class SDB
  Chris Cox, Ashkha Star Command
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

KE-SD/10b "Predator" System Defense Craft
  Bill Prankard, Kor-El Shipyards
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

Eman SDB
  Michael Koehne, Vulkan Werft
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

"Scenic View" class Close Defense Vessel
  Martin F C Pickett, Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Naval Architects
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

P-500SD SDB
  Andrew Moffatt-Vallance, Phoenix Corp.
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

Argenaugh class SDB
  Peter H. Brenton, Goodenuf Construction Company
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

Archer SDB
  Lewis Roberts, (not supplied)
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

Darkstar class SDB
  John Macpherson, His Majesty's Royal Shipwrights College
    Overall design            :
    Likely to use in a game   :
    Closeness to design specs :
    Efficiency of design      :
    Unusualness of design     :

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 23:09:14 -0600
From: Mark <bdmahan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

>Don't count on them being different. Units of measurement persist for
>*very* lomg times. The mile goes back more than 2000 years. Ditto for
>the pound. I'm not sure about other measurements.
Some do others don't mostly a matter of conveence.  The rod and chain 
were used to lay out most of the steets in my state.  I was told once a 
yard was the measure of the king girth, could be a problem if he went on 
a diet.  I like the piont about the dials many different values and 
measure but displays are oriented so that a normal condition is displayed 
the same on each.

My center gives way, my right is pushed back, situation excellent, I am 
attacking. - Ferdinand Foch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:15:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 6: Entries (0/4)

                          THUDDD 6: September 1997
                        Low-Tech System Defense Boat
                                      
Specifications

     The ISBA (and the Third Imperium) step aside this month, and a
     hard-pressed pocket empire somewhere on the fringes of Imperial
     space takes center stage...
     
   [Excerpted from an official document released to Kaneshi shipbuilding
   concerns by the Kanesh Chartered Guild of Shipwrights (KCGS), local
   date Makan IV:33 Upper (Imperial 117-23). The document carried the
   Autarch's personal seal.] 
   
   Brave companions in our shared triumph!
   
   We, the Council of Nine of the Shipwright's Guild, salute you! Your
   perseverence and dedication, your ceaseless toil on behalf of our
   beloved Empire, are the shield and the sword which stand between our
   precious realm and the barbarians beyond, eager to tear down all we
   have built, all we hold most dear.
   
   [19k omitted.] 
   
   Thus, at the personal command of our beloved Autarch Zomaiir III, we
   request your proposals for a vessel meeting the following
   requirements.
   
   The vessel will form the cornerstone of permanent in-system defense in
   the key systems of our Empire. Its size must be in the range 500 to
   1000 displacement tons, and it should not be jump-capable. It must be
   capable of independent and covert 'guerrilla' operation (e.g., lurking
   in a gas giant's atmosphere and pouncing on refueling vessels); it
   must also have superior sensor capabilities in order to serve in an
   'early warning' picket role. Maneuver capability and armaments should
   be consistent with the vessel's role as a last line of defense against
   invading fleets.
   
   All components must be of Kaneshi manufacture, in order to ensure
   spare parts are available locally in the event of war.
   
   [The Kaneshi Empire is at TL 10.] 
   
   Noble colleagues, skilled shipwrights, honored citizens of our Empire
   -- heed our Autarch's call! The rewards of success will be great.
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
   Welcome to THUDDD meets Pocket Empires. Keep in mind that the primary
   concern of the Autarch is price...Kanesh is not a rich PE, and
   squeezing maximum bang out of minimum bucks is the key to winning this
   contract. To this end, each contestant should list how many vessels of
   the proposed design can be purchased for 10 gigacredits -- include
   this value with the 'header' design data. If you can credibly provide
   peacetime roles for the design (e.g., Coast Guard-like duties,
   in-system transports, or whatever), all the better...but the primary
   mission is detecting and destroying invading starships, and nothing
   else should interfere with this.
   
   FFS2 will be a valid design system for this THUDDD, along with all the
   earlier systems. Judges should take into account differences
   (especially in sensor performance) between FFS2 and the earlier
   systems.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:18:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 6: Entries (4/4)

                                      
  Archer SDB
  
   Designer: Lewis Roberts lewis@chara.gsu.edu
   Firm: (not supplied)
   System: FFS

Tons: 990 (Sphere SL)       Volume: 13860 m3            Cost: 606.499 MCr
Crew: 35                    High/Mid Pass: 0            Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 9.4 tons             Controls: Fib (Bridge)      TL: 10

8 Size                      0 Jump drive
3 Fire Control              1 Maneuver (HEPlaR, 918.7101 MW) (55 GTurns)
                          4.3 Power Plant (Fusion) (2133.2 MW)
5xPDL:SR=2:2-2-0-0      456.9 Fuel (Scoop 1584, Refine 16.7)
1xLLL:11-11-6-6             0 Meson Screen (0 MW)
                            7 Sandcasters (140 cans)
                            0 Nuclear Damper
                    10A 4P 0J Sensors
                           60 Armor, 11 Structure

(LLC = Linked Laser Lances)
(PDL = Point Defense Lasers)
Crew: 1 Maneuver, 3 Electronics, 1 Engineer, 17 Gunnery, 8 Maintenance,
      5 Command
Accom: 17 small staterooms,
Average density: 1.3257 ton/m3.

   16 ARCHERS can be bought for 10 billion credits. This will leave 296
   million credits left over. It is suggested that these be used to
   purchase long range AEMS to be placed on the main homeworld, to
   provide better sensor coverage of the system.
   
   If the Kaneshi Empire is forced into a fight with the Imperium, it
   will lose. There is no way that one small world can hope to defeat the
   combined might of hundreds of worlds with higher tech level weapons
   and ships. If the Kaneshi Empire is to survive it has to make the
   possibility of a fight with the Imperium so costly that the Imperium
   will choose to ignore the Kaneshi Empire and go find someone weaker to
   pick on. The Archer will make the battle costly to the Imperium, by
   destroying their large capital ships.
   
   Initial intelligence suggests that Imperial forces consist of 10,000
   to 25,000 ton ships escorted by the highly touted Imperial Fighters.
   While Imperial Fighters do cost significant amounts, to discourage
   Imperial attack, their capital ships have to be in danger. The Archer
   SDB was developed to do this.
   
   The Archer was given 5 of the biggest laser cannons, that the Kaneshi
   Empire can build, to save money these lasers were made to be
   non-steerable. These lasers are over 8meters in diameter and fire 100
   500Mj laser pulses per half hour. (in game terms ROF=100) These lasers
   are controlled by a state of the art Master Fire Director. Only one
   MFD was chosen, both because MFDs are very expensive and also the
   tactic behind the Archer is for it to close with the enemy and to
   concentrate all of its firepower on the capital ships of the enemy
   fleet. Fighters and escorts will be ignored until the capital ships
   are destroyed. To protect the Archer against the fire from the
   Fighters, the ship was given a thick armored hull, it was also given 7
   sandcaster turrets. These sandcasters can protect the ship against the
   laser stings of fighters, as well as the capital ship's PAW spinal
   mounts. In addition 5 point defense lasers are mounted, these can
   shoot down incoming missiles, and any fighters that are in range. Also
   200 AEMS decoys and 200 PEMS decoys are installed, these can reduce
   the chance of a sensor lock on by a hostile craft. EMM was looked at
   but the 70 MCr price tag was thought to be too expensive.
   
   The Archer's laser cannons should outrange or at the worst be equal to
   many of the weapons, found on Imperial ships. (The TL-12 Meson guns
   found in Starships only range up to 40 hexes, while the Archer's laser
   ranges out to 80 hexes. The only meson guns capable of doing
   significant damage at 80 hexes are extremely big, especially at TL-12)
   The typical turret laser, while being able to reach 80 hexes, will be
   unable to penetrate the Archer's armor plating at those ranges.)
   
   While the laser lances of the Archer are a powerful weapon, the Archer
   is two tech levels behind that of their Imperial foes. This does
   effect the design, the Archer can only accelerate at 1G, this will
   allow the Imperial forces to dictate the range at which the combat is
   fought. While this is unfortunate, it is not fatal, because of the
   long range of the Archer's laser lance. Many of the systems are not as
   effective as their TL-12, which means that TL-12 ships will be able to
   put more and better equipment in their ships.
   
   The ship has a AEMS with a short range of 300,000km, and a PEMS with a
   short range of 120,000 km. A bigger PEMS would have been useful, but
   it would have required a folding array, and the prices of folding
   arrays are much too high. The ship will probably be easily found by
   the Imperials TL-12 sensors, so once it is found it will probably turn
   on its AEMS sensor to allow it to fire at the enemy.
   
   Many weapon systems were looked at while designing the Archer. The
   three major weapon systems are spinal PAWS, missile bays and large
   lasers. Missiles are the most effective weapon at TL-10, but they are
   extremely expensive. A 1000 ship can easily carry 100-200 ton missile
   bay capable of firing a huge missile volley. Missile bays are very
   cheap, but missiles require a MFD for each 3 missiles fire, as each
   MFD costs about 50 MCr the price for the ship would sky rocket. Adding
   still more expense the missiles cost just under a million credits
   each. As the Kaneshi Empire desires an effective yet inexpensive ship,
   missiles were not selected. It was felt that large laser lances can do
   more damage, with better penetration than PAWS, so linked laser lances
   were selected.
   
   The ship is egg shaped, the laser lances are mounted around the
   pointed end of the egg, while the HEPlaR engines point out the fat end
   of the egg. The sandcasters and point defense lasers are mounted
   evenly around the middle of the egg. Most of the fuel, is mounted
   directly behind the armor, to act as extra protection. The bridge and
   engine room are located in the center of the ship. It was felt that
   the most essential systems should be put behind as many barriers as
   possible.
   
   The ship has an extensive electronics suite, it has 2 laser
   communicators, one maser communicator and a broadband radio receiver
   and transmitter, all with a range of 1000AU. This will allow the ship
   to communicate with all friendly forces in the area, and to hail
   potentially hostile ships. It has two state of the art military grade
   fiber optic computers, these are more than capable of meeting the
   computing needs of the ship.
   
   Inside the ship is fairly spartan. Pipes and wiring weren't hidden
   behind false panels, as that makes damage control more difficult. The
   ship is fairly cramped, the captain gets a single, as it he is
   expected to use it as an office as well as a stateroom. The rest of
   the command staff double bunks as well as most of the crew. The
   engineering staff are forced to triple bunk. The ship does have an
   extensive video library, and several video game stations. This allows
   the crew to have some recreation, but most of the time they are on
   duty, ever vigilant to the Imperial threat.
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
  Darkstar class SDB
  
   Designer: John Macpherson john35@wharton.upenn.edu
   Firm: His Majesty's Royal Shipwrights College
   System: FFS2

Tons: 1000Std (Asteroid)  Volume:14000 m^3      Cost:1,834.667 MCr
Crew: 35                  High/Mid Pass: 0      Low: 16
Cargo: 15.5               Controls: Fib/Bridge  TL: 10

Size: 9                         0 Jump Drive
2xLaser (+0) 1/1-0-0-0          1 Maneuver (Heplar, 500MW, 26.5 G-Hours)
1xPAW   (+2) 2/11-9-6-3       2.8 Power Plant (1x1413MW)
        (+3) 2/11-8-5-3     236.6 Fuel (Scoop 0, Refine 4.65)
        (+4) 2/10-7-4-2         0 Meson Screen
                                2 Sandcasters (40 Cans)
1xDocking Ring (Fuel Shuttle)   0 Nuclear Damper
                     A11 P13x2 J0 Sensors, Sig:.5,-.5(-2),0*
                                4 Armor, 1000 Structure

Crew Detail:  4 Engineers, 4 Electronics, 5 Maneuver, 9 Gunners,
        2 Screens, 2 AuxCraft Crew, 0 Troops/Marines, 5 Command,
        1 Stewards, 0 Medical

*This is the FF&S2 rating.  Sensors are listed by sensitivity and
Signature is listed Sig: Visible, IR(powered down), Active

   His Majesty's Royal Shipwrights College is proud to present the
   Darkstar-class System Defense Boat. While the Royal Shipwrights
   College is not one of His Majesty's many qualified ship yards, we
   believe that this ship design represents the cutting edge of
   spacecraft technology and a magnificient return on His Majesty's wise
   contribution to the College endowment.
   
    Notes:
    
   The Darkstar is equipped with extended life support capable of
   maintaining atmosphere and water indefinitely. It carries 3 months of
   normal rations and 2 weeks emergency rations. It is equipped with a
   galley, two gyms, and both machine and electronic shops. The low
   berths are emergency berths for casualties. The Fuel Shuttle can
   completely refuel the Darkstar in 11 hours. Additional crew is carried
   so that sensor and engineering stations can stay at Alert status at
   all times to maintain sensor sweeps and masking integrity. With only
   life support and sensors powered the Darkstar is indistinguishable
   from a normal asteroid.
   
   The Darkstar is so named because it has the ability to disguise itself
   as a common metallic asteroid and then strike with its massive
   particle accelerator from ambush. The Fellowes of the Royal
   Shipwrights College believe that this ability solves a common problem
   with SDB tactical deployment. Most SDBs are designed to hide in the
   atmospheres of gas giants or in the depths of oceans. While these
   tactics are quite successful in concealing the ship from invaders,
   they also blind the SDBs sensors in equal measure.
   
   To overcome this problem, the Darkstar is designed to hide in plain
   sight. With its drives and weapons powered down, the Darkstar is
   indistinguishable from a normal metallic asteroid. From this position,
   the Darkstar can observe approaching enemies without being detected
   and rally His Majesty's space fleet. This remarkable capability is
   made possible by placing the Darkstar inside the shell of an asteroid
   and concealing its thermal emissions with advanced thermal masking
   technology developed by our faculty.
   
   The Darkstar is not merely an early detection platform. It is also
   equipped with the most powerful Particle Accelerator Weapon ever
   constructed for a ship other than a Ship-of-the-Line. This is
   accomplished by another Royal Shipwrights College breakthrough. While
   traditional particle beam weapons are constructed as linear
   accelerators, the Darkstar's weapon is a circular accelerator, or
   cyclotron. Cyclotrons can continously accelerate their particle beams
   in a circle and achieve very high particle energies without the need
   for exceedingly long accelerator tunnels. The Darkstar's cyclotron can
   vary its rate of fire and release many less energetic shots or a few
   very powerful blasts.
   
   The Darkstar's combat capabilities are completed by a pair of laser
   barbettes for point defense and supplementary fire. The Darkstar is
   defended by its outer mettallic asteroid shell as well as an inner
   hull of standard crystaliron armor plate. A brace of sandcaster
   turrets provide another layer of protection.
   
   The Darkstar is made to be able to remain on station in the remotest
   parts of His Majesty's Kingdom for extended periods. It carries 3
   months of provisions, a life support system of unlimited endurance,
   electronic and machine shops, as well as a galley and extensive
   exercise facilities to maintain the morale of the crew on long
   deployments. It also is equipped with emergency low berths so that His
   Majesty's highly trained naval crewmen can be preserved until they
   reach medical help.
   
   Since the systems of His Majesty's kingdom contain numerous planetoid
   belts, gas giant ring systems, and LaGrange point industrial asteroids
   near the mainworlds, the Fellowes believe that the Darkstar will have
   many mundane asteroids amongst which it can hide. The strategic beauty
   of this ship is that once the existence of the Darkstars is known to
   His Majesty's enemies, they will never be able to enter one of His
   systems without worrying that any of the countless asteroids in it
   could be a Darkstar quietly stalking them. The effort of making an
   intensive, close-range sensor scan of any asteroid near a gas giant or
   other strategically significant point will provide an enormous
   deterrant against invasion. This deterent will be magnified ad
   infinitum by the suspiscious minds of His Majesty's enemies, who will
   see Darkstars everywhere.
   
   The Fellowes of the Royal Shipwrights College are aware that the
   Darkstar is a highly specialized weapon for His Majesty's arsenal. For
   this reason, they also offer for consideration a more economical
   version of the Darkstar, known as the Deathstar. The Deathstar is the
   Darkstar shed of its asteroid disguise and advanced thermal masking,
   but retains all of its combat capabilities.
   
   Deathstar Cost: 456.7 MCr Sig: -.5, 0 (-1.5), 0
   
   We believe the combination of the elite Darkstars for early warning
   and the squadrons of Deathstars for open combat will provide precisely
   the defensive strength His Majesty desires.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1877
***********************************

Traveller-digest     Friday, September 26 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1878



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

THUDDD 6: Entries (3/4)
THUDDD 6: Entries (1/4)
THUDDD 6: Entries (2/4)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:17:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 6: Entries (3/4)

                                      
  P-500SD SDB
  
   Designer: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz
   Firm: Phoenix Corp.
   System: QSDS 1.5

Tons: 500dT (Slab S)  Volume: 7000m^3               Cost: Mcr 736.4
Crew: 32              High/Mid Psg: 0/0             Low: 0
Cargo: 0              Controls: TL 10 fib (bridge)  TL: 10

8 Size                            0 Jump Drive
3 x Missile barbette             4G Maneuver (HEPLaR, 10 G hr)
5 x MFD (+3)                      8 Power Plant (1 x 2000Mw)
                                    Fuel 207.8dT (S200, R5)
                                  0 Meson Screen
                                  4 Sandcaster (4 x 20)
                                  0 Nuclear Damper
                          A16 P5 J8 Sensors
                                 20 Armour 16 Structure

Crew: 2 Engineer, 2 Electronics, 2 Maneuver, 5 Gunnery, 4 Screens,
      8 Troops, 4 Command, 1 Steward, 1 Medic

   The Phoenix Corporation takes great pleasure in unveiling it's latest
   design the P-500SD system defence boat.
   
   Cost of 13 examples = MCr 9,573.2
   
   The Phoenix P-500SD is designed as a cost effective patrol and defence
   unit for customers unwilling to utilise current Imperial standard
   equipment. Built around a standard 500dT streamlined slab hull, the
   P-500SD is constucted using only tested componentry which can be
   produced and maintained in a wide variety of frontier locations. The
   modular nature of the P-500SD allows for the replacement of damaged
   component with the minimum of difficulty.
   
   The P-500SD is propelled by 8 standard MCI EF-74 HEPLaR thrusters each
   capable of producing up to 3500 tons of thrust providing up to 4G's of
   acceleration. The internal fuel tankage allows for over 10 hours
   operations at full thrust. Power for this and all other onboard
   systems is provided by a single Simmens LT-F12/r 2000Mw fusion
   reactor, fuel for which is drawn from the 207.8 tons of L-Hyd carried
   aboard (the reactors consume 5.35 tons of fuel per 3 months at full
   power, whilst the thrusters consume 20 tons per hour of full thrust).
   The onboard Mitre ADR fuel refinery can process a full load of fuel in
   41.56 hours at a throughput rate of 5 tons per hour. The P-500SD
   utilises a transverse layout allowing the thrusters to operate at 90
   degrees to the decks, neutralising 1G of thrust, greatly improving the
   efficency of it's gravitic compensators.
   
   The P-500SD carries a formidable electronics suite. The Matsui CtM-21
   package includes hardened military standard avionics, long range AEMS
   and PEMS sensors, a LADAR range finder/target designator, a 1000AU
   radio, two 1000AU tight beam maser commuinicators and a 1000AU tight
   beam laser communicator. The suite is fully integrated and any
   individual component can be removed and replaced in the event of
   damage. The P-500SD centralises all non-engineering control postions
   on a heavily protected brigde located at the centre of the vessel.
   
   The P-500SD is armed with 3 missile barbettes located amidships, each
   armed with 5 standard ship combat missiles. These missiles are
   controlled by no less than 5 Matsui R7d(c) Master Fire Directors,
   allowing for the P-500SD's full missile compliment to be fired and
   controlled at once. Defence is provided by 4 standard PS-C(3)
   sandcaster turrets. It is envisinged that the P-500SD would utilise
   time tested "shoot'n'scoot" tactics; emerging from suitably concealed
   locations to fire off a devestating missile volley and then retreating
   to rearm at prepositioned depots hidden throughout the system.
   
   The standard crew roster of the P-500SD is as follows (by department):

Command
   Commander
   First Officer
   Gunnery Officer
   Operations Officer

Manuever
   Pilot
   Astrogator

Gunnery
   5 x missile gunners
   4 x sandcaster gunners

Engineering
   Chief Engineer
   Assistant Engineer

Electronics
   Communictions Officer
   Sensor Officer
   3 x Electronics Technicians

Security
   Master at Arms
   7 x Security personnel

Service
   Medical Officer
   Purser

   The Commander, First Officer and Chief Engineer are all provided with
   large staterooms, all other crew are provided with individual small
   staterooms. The P-500SD additionally has a fully equiped sickbay and
   carries a qualified Medical Officer to handle battle casualties
   without resort to outside facilities.
   
   The streamlined hull of the P-500SD allows for it to lurk at minimal
   power levels in virtually any location within a system, for virtually
   indefinite periods. This makes the P-500SD a potent threat to any
   invading force attempting to gain control of a system. However the
   P-500SD is fully capable of handling the many duties of required of
   such craft in peacetime. It's onboard sickbay and excellant sensor
   suite makes it ideal for search and rescue operations and its large
   compliment of security personnel, with it's impressive acceleration
   and endurance makes it well suited to routine in system patrol and law
   enforcement. It's sophisticated electronics suite also makes it an
   ideal vessel for long range scientific operations and in system survey
   duties.
   
   The P-500SD comes at the modest cost of MCr 736.4 and required 56
   weeks to construct. The Phoenix Corporation encourages licence
   production of the P-500SD utilising local resources; and a technical
   assistance program is available for clients wishing to pursue this
   option.
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
  Argenaugh class SDB
  
   Designer: Peter H. Brenton brenton@psfc.mit.edu
   Firm: Goodenuf Construction Company
   System: SSDS

Tons: 700 std ( SL Needle ) Volume: 9,800 m^3            Cost: 1,558.133 MCr  (
 1,402.320 MCr )
Crew: 31/31 ( /HighAuto  )  Passengers High/Medium: 0/0  Passengers Low: 0
Cargo: 25.0 std             Controls: Military Std ( /Bridge /Fib )
Tech Level: 10

8   Size Rating                          0  Jump Drive
                                         6  Maneuver ( Thruster, 1,050 Mw /No C
G )
2xLaser Emitters (+3) 1/0-0-0-0          5  Power Plant Rating ( 7x250Mw 1x10Mw
 )
1xLaser Battery (+3) 1/2-1-0-0           9  Fuel ( /Scoop:5.0 /Refine:0.2 )
1xMissile Cell (+3) 5/6                  2  Sandcaster ( 20 cans )
  w/  40 Guided DetLaser 1d6/2 6G12      0  Nuclear Damper
1xParticle Cannon (+3) 2/5-3-2-1         0  Meson Screen
                                         0  Black Globe
                                A10 P4 J10  Sensors ( /EMM )
                                        60  Armor, 22 Structure

   12xDocking Rings ( 5 std capacity )
    1xVehicle Bay ( 4 std craft )

Crew Details: 4 cmd, 1 mvr, 4 elc, 10 gun, 0 scr, 10 eng, 2 mtn, 0 crf,
              0 trp, 0 sci, 0 stw, 0 brk, 0 med

10 Gigacredits (10,000 Mcr) would purchase 6 of these, 7 if the "quantity"
cost is used.

Price does not include External Ordinance (see below) or subcraft (4 ton
enclosed air/raft is the usual standard).

Note; Individual units are given numbers, typically, instead of names.

   To the Council of Nine of the Kaneshi Chartered Guild of Shipwrights,
   
   Please find, enclosed, the official entry of the Goodenuf Construction
   Company for your consideration as an in-system defense craft for the
   Kaneshi Empire. I think you will find this craft uniquely suited to
   your needs and well within the parameters of your Request for
   Proposals.
   
   The Argenaugh System Defense Craft is all about force multipliers. The
   first and most obvious of these is its main armament; a powerful
   Particle Cannon able to "reach out and touch someone" at extreme
   range. This weapon makes the craft capable of affecting invading
   capital ships and allows response to long-range spinal mount fire
   which a craft with lesser weapons would have to endure until it was in
   range with lesser weapons. This also allows the Argenaugh to use 'hit
   and run' tactics against escorts and pickets which do not have long
   range weapons, striking without allowing the enemy to strike back.
   
   The same philosophy is behind a well stocked missile launcher. With a
   standard load of 40 guided detonation-laser missiles, long patrols or
   extended defensive actions won't find the magazine empty. And if
   that's not enough, a sizable 25 ton cargo bay is available for
   additional reloads.
   
   And you'll find the hefty laser battery for real nose-to-nose combat,
   and point defense lasers and a pair of sandcasters round out the
   active defenses quite nicely.
   
   Multipliers, that's what you'll find in the best EM Masking package
   available on Kanesh. And the high quality military sensors and
   jammers, which provide the best electronic intelligence possible, and
   allow the ships of the squadron to remain in contact via
   near-impossible-to-intercept laser communicators.
   
   Multipliers are why each Argenaugh SDB to carry additional external
   ordinance in Ten 5-ton external grapples (SSDS Docking Ring). Our
   design team is working on several options for carrying on these racks;
    1. Self-guided "Capital" Missiles : Can you imagine the stopping
       power of a 5 ton detlaser missile? Or perhaps an EMP missile? Or a
       multiple warhead missile; approaching to a certain distance and
       splitting into several missiles?
    2. Mines: which release dozens of more typical homing missiles on
       command or when sensors are triggered. Useful for areas where the
       enemy is guaranteed to visit.
    3. A 10-ton fighter (which would occupy two grapples), which
       otherwise would not be able to travel this far away from its usual
       base.
    4. A set of self contained chemical or HEPlaR rocket boosters for the
       SDB, increasing accelleration to 8G [note; the hull is stressed to
       8G, but the compensators can only handle 6...an uncomfortable
       flight, but not unreasonable]
    5. Remote guided sensor drones with just a passive sensor package,
       M-drive and laser comm, effectively allowing the SDB to be in two
       places at once.
    6. ECM Drones which can mimic the SDB's signatures.
    7. Custom packages as specified by the mission and user.
       
   Multipliers...like survivability and toughness. The ship can operate
   with a crew of only 21 [with high automation] but to keep operating
   after being damaged we specify and accomodate a full crew of 31
   [requirement with medium automation]. Armor is another toughness
   factor and we didn't skimp there either with a hull armor factor of
   60!. Power is supplied by 7 main power plants and one auxiliary plant,
   and the ship can limp home on just 4 of those-and at 6Gs!
   
   A fuel purification plant, and 6 month fuel supply allow long patrols
   and time on station away from base facilities.
   
   There are those who would tell you to "go cheap" and buy many SDBs.
   Let me tell you that, time and again throughout history, quality has
   ruled over quantity in military engagements. What good is a ship at
   half this price if this vessel can destroy 3 of them without a
   scratch? We offer a full operations and tactics training course for
   your local instructors (for a modest fee) which can aid you in
   bringing your forces up to the highest readiness standard money can
   buy.
   
   Long range weapons, plenty of reloads, mission flexibility, the
   ability to absorb damage, low detectability, and a powerful sensor
   package, these are the force multipliers you are buying when you
   choose the Argenaugh System Defense craft. We at Goodenuf have been
   thinking about system defense for a long time now, and we think this
   combination is what you'll need to keep your planets safe.
   
    Designer Notes;
    
   Created using SSDS and the SSDS Design Template spreadsheet by Andrew
   Akins. Since I use the Role-Playing Space Combat system, this design
   is optimized for that relatively simple rules environment.
   
   This craft is a weapons platform, pure and simple. I looked for a
   weapon which does some damage at max range, and built the rest around
   that (the PA). Missiles are an obvious addition. With any luck she can
   "dance" around at max range taking pot shots with missiles and the PA
   and stay out of range of most of her enemy's primary armament. In
   action I would fill the cargo bay with missile reloads (reloading
   would have to be done in deep space somewhere probably...there are no
   facilities installed for moving missiles inside the ship from cargo
   bay to missile bay)
   
   Technically, adding anything to the outside of the vessel should
   reduce the accelleration. Practically, since accelleration is based on
   volume rather than mass and the max volume of any external payload is
   (5 tons X 12 docking rings) 60 tons, I would reduce accelleration by
   (60/700=) 8.6% to 5.5Gs. This assumes full loads in all docking rings.
   Note that any layout should take into account that the docking rings
   need to be carefully distributed around the vessel at balanced points
   so that any attached propulsion would work properly.
   
   I used a ring instead of grapples (my intent was grapples) because a
   "Ring" took much less volume and surface area. There was once a
   discussion of what each was, but having neglected to save it I'm not
   going to dig for it now. It makes no sense to me that a ring is
   smaller than a grapple, so I assume the definitions are not what I
   imagined.
   
   I have yet to design payloads. I think the"sensor drone", "mine" and
   "boosters" are the most practical, since they are generally jettisoned
   before combat. I imagine (although there is plenty of surface area
   left over) that anything attached to the vessel would block some line
   of fire somewhere, which would be a Bad Thing. In play I would make it
   mandatory to jettison any external payload before combat.
   
   The sensor drone deserves a little more attention. They can go active
   and get sensor locks without revealing the location of the main
   vessel. This is a pretty big advantage, and if they worked as I
   describe, then all ships would have these. Since they don't, then
   there is probably some basic flaw with the whole concept.
   
   Incidentially, the idea (for externally mounted missiles) came from
   David Weber and Steven White's _Insurrection_ Wherein large ships
   would always fire big "capital" missiles from "external ordinance"
   racks just prior to joining combat. The bigger the ship, the bigger
   the missiles it carried.
   
   Crew requirements shown are for Medium automation, but the vessel is
   equipped with high automation. In peacetime much monthly expense can
   be saved by manning this ship with the minimum required crew,
   incidentially making a lot more room aboard. I believe this is similar
   to the manner that some naval vessels today (or perhaps around WWII)
   are manned. Crew are at double occupancy of large staterooms and
   officers at single occupancy of small staterooms when fully manned.
   When short-manned the crew is 19 instead of 31.
   
   I also felt that a steward and medical officer were unnecessary for an
   insystem, military vessel, and omitted them intentionally in the
   interest of space and money.
   
   Notice fuel is for 1/2 a year rather than a year. I though 1 year's
   worth of fuel was a bit extreme, but 6 months is not too unreasonable.
   and I could use the space better.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:16:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 6: Entries (1/4)

                                      
  Wraith class SDB
  
   Designer: Andrew Akins igor@ames.net
   Firm: Seraphim Industries, Inc.
   System: SSDS with additions

Tons: 700Std (SL Cyl)   Volume: 9,800             Cost: 1,068.090MCr (961.281MCr)
Crew: 16 (/Hi)          Pass Hi/Med: 0/0          Pass Low: 16
Cargo: 0                Controls: Mil (/Br/Fib)   Tech Level: 10

8 Size rating                                   0 Jump Drive
                                                2 Maneuver Drive
(HEPlAR,700MW)
1xLaser Array (+3) 1/4-2-0-0                    5 Power Planet (7x250)
2xMissile Salvos (+3) 4/4                     206 Fuel (/Sc:5 /Rf:4.1/G-Hr:15)
- -- with 60 Guided DetLaster            A10 P4 J10 Sensors
   1d6/2 6G12                        60 Armor, 33 Structure

2xRemote Workstations (6std each)
2xSL Grapples (10std drones)

Crew Details: 2 Command, 1 Maneuver, 4 Electronics, 3 Gunnery,
              2 Engineering, 1 Maintenance, 2 Remote Pilots, 1 Medic

   When the Taneis Covenant was formed, it immediately was swept up into
   the conflict between the K'Kree and the Community. Recognizing the
   need to protect their new homeworld, the Taneians began two projects.
   The first was a refitting of the Archangel class colony ships into
   large planetoid monitors. The second was the creation of a large fleet
   of small yet powerful defence craft.
   
   The Taneis Covenant was still essentially at tech level 9, and
   designing a craft to meet the performance requirements proved to be
   impossible. Thus, a crash technology improvement program was begun,
   with the intention of reaching tech level 12 to match the Krahz/Chk.
   With the assistance of the Krahz/Chk, the technology uplift was
   started. However, going from tech level 9 to tech level 12 cannot
   happen overnight, even with help. Thus, it was determined that a
   interim system defence boat would be built. With assistance from the
   Bugs (Krahz/Chk), the Wraith class SDB was designed.
   
   In many ways, the Wraith resembles an old SSBN submarine from Terra's
   history (indeed, many of the Taneian's on the design team used SSBNs
   as a conceptual model). The key aspects of the design are stealth, and
   the reliance on missile weaponry.
   
   Since the limitations of HEPlAR prevented a high speed craft (fuel
   consumption being the greatest problem), the Wraith relies on armor
   and stealth for survivability. Since it's primary weapon is capable of
   operating in a independant, stand-off mode, the Wraith spends most of
   its time hiding. The ship can loiter in a Gas Giant or planetoid belt,
   lurking and waiting for a target. The ship is highly armored and
   structurally reinforced (the hull can withstand 30Gs without
   compensation, nearly 32Gs with), not only to absorb battle damage, but
   to allow the ship to descend deep into a Gas Giant and wait. An
   advanced EMM radiation system allows the ship to be invisible while
   lurking. One of the problems with stealth is sensor use - any use of
   active sensors effectively invalidates the stealth. To deal with this
   problem, the Wraith carries 2 10ton Oracle class sensor drones. These
   advanced vehicles are little more than drives, sensors, and tight-beam
   communicators. The Oracles become the eyes and ears of the mothership
   - leaving the gas giant and seeking out targets. The Oracles can also
   act as communications repeaters - stretching the control range of the
   Wraith's missiles (with appropriate communication delays). In dire
   circumstances, the Oracles can be used as weapons, as each carries a
   single high power detonation laser. This use is frowned up, as it
   destroys the drone (and they are quite expensive ).
   
   The primary weapon load of the Wraith are 60 ADL-67 guided missiles.
   These compact, powerful weapons provide superior standoff attack
   performance, and are more than capable of delivering a terminal attack
   against capital class ships. The Wraith can launch 8 missiles at a
   time, and can normally control 8 missiles in flight (in two groups of
   4). However, if a larger salvo is required, the Oracle controllers can
   place their sensor drones into loiter mode ( a semi-independent mode
   freeing up the control channels ) and each Oracle station can control
   4 missiles - thus allowing for 16 missiles in flight ( in four groups
   of 4 ). Note that even if the Oracle controllers switch to ordnance
   control mode, only 8 missiles can be launched at one time. The normal
   mode of operation would be as follows:
    1. Eight missiles are launched, and control is "handed-off" to the
       Oracle operators.
    2. The launchers are reloaded.
    3. Eight more missiles are launched, with control being handled by
       the ordnance gunners. There are now 16 weapons in use.
       
   For close-in and anti-missile action, a single laser emitter is
   mounted amidships. The laser is useful also to "clean-up" a weakened
   ship.
   
   The Wraith is a comfortable design - each crewmember has his own
   stateroom the (Captain and Executive Officer have large rooms). To
   facilitate long missions, sixteen low berths are provided. The ships
   computer is capable of operating the ship in "prowling" mode, while
   the crew hibernates. When a threat is detected, the ship auto-wakes
   the medic, who then monitors the waking of the rest of the crew. Each
   crew member is provided a G-Tank to provide a bit more compensation
   against high-gravity maneuvers and environments.
   
   Critics of the Wraith tend to attack three aspects: low speed, fuel
   endurance, and lack of long range beam weaponry.
   
   With its reliance on HEPlAR technology, it was difficult to provide
   maneuver performance. The decision was made to rely on stealth rather
   than speed for defensive actions.
   
   Since the Wraith is designed to loiter in a gas giant, the 15 G-hour
   endurance was deemed acceptable. The designers also provided
   "immediate refueling" capability - the ship can refine fuel as it
   scoops.
   
   The limited usefulness of small beam weapons at tech level 10 prompted
   the decision for missile weaponry. The Wraith carries a large magazine
   of weapons (enough for 15 salvos), it is considered unlikely that any
   conflict would last that long.
   
   For transport to other systems, the Wraith can be mated to a Brute
   class tender.
   
   The ship has a web page which includes a image of the craft (deckplans
   are forthcoming). The web page is
   http://www.ames.net/igor/trav/ships/wraith.htm
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
  Balboa class SDB
  
   Designer: Douglas E. Berry dberry@hooked.net
   Firm: (not supplied)
   System: FFS1/SSDS

Tons: 400 (Sphere USL)   Volume: 5600 m3       Cost: 337.179 MCr
Crew: 12                 High/Mid Pass: 0      Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 20 tons           Controls: Std         TL: 10

8 Size                      0 Jump drive
3 Fire Control              1 Maneuver (Fusion Rocket, 200 G-hours
3x TL10 Missile Barbette  1.5 Power Plant (291 MW) Fission plant
                          7.9 Fuel
                            0 Meson Screen (0 MW)
                            0 Sandcasters (0 cans)
1xdocking ring (20-ton)     0 Nuclear Damper
                     4A 4P 4J Sensors/EM Masking
                          100 Armor, 9 Structure

Crew: 1 Maneuver, 3 Electronics, 1 Engineer, 4 Gunnery, 2 Maintenance,
      1 Command
Accom: 12 small staterooms,

   The Balboa class SDB is intended to provide a long term threat to any
   invading force. The system's main selling point is its long term
   endurance and incredible toughness.
   
   The Balboa is not intended to stand alone. It requires support in the
   form of missile reloads and fueling stations, and is limited to vacuum
   operations.
   
   The Balboa is a small, unstreamlined sphere. First thing a viewer
   notes is the large fusion rocket assembly. This was chosen
   deliberately for both economic reasons, and for the nuisance value the
   hazardous blackblast plays with any attempt at pursuit. The three
   missile barbettes are spacing around the ships waist, and draw from a
   300 missile magazine at the center of the ship.
   
   Inside, the Balboa is surprisingly luxurious, with all crew members
   receiving a private room. Since the Balboa is intended to operate for
   months at a time in the deepest reaches of the systems hinterlands,
   this level of privacy and comfort was deemed a very necessary design
   feature.
   
   The Balboa has huge fuel tanks, enough to provide maneuver
   capabilities for many weeks at combat tempo. In addition, the McGee
   Power 291Mw Fission plant has sufficient fuel for several years of
   operation at modest loads. Sensor operations are provided by a modest
   suite of military sensors, the thought being that an invader will be
   making enough noise to be found with relative ease.
   
   It is the design bureau's vision that Balboas would operate in groups
   of three, trading sensor information and fire solutions. A tender is
   in the planning stages, as one is clearly needed to support extended
   combat ops. It is humbly suggested that the Defense Board consider
   pre-placing fuel and missile cache at strategic points throughout our
   system.
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
  Type 88621-A SDB
  
   Designer: Mark Clark clarkm@OIT.EDU
   Firm: Generica Shipyards
   System: QSDS, HTH

Tons: 800 (Cylinder AF)                        Cost: 909.1 MCr
Crew: 29                 High/Mid Pass: 0      Low Pass: 0
Cargo: 71 tons           Controls: Military    TL: 10

8 Size                      0 Jump drive
5x TL10 MFD (+3)            6 Maneuver (HEPLAR, 18 G-hours)
3x Missile Barbette         5,000 Mw Fusion plant (2x2,000; 1x1,000)
1x PA-Gun (+2)2/5-4-2-0     188.5 Fuel (Scoop 320, Refine 3)
                            0 Meson Screen
                            5 Sandcasters (20 cans)
                            0 Nuclear Damper
Engineering Shop (6T)       16A 5P 8J Sensors/EM Masking
                            20 Armor, 21 Structure

Crew: 5 Engineers, 5 Electronics, 1 Manuever, 13 Gunners, 1 Steward,
      4 Command, 1 Medical

   The Type 88621-A is a lower-tech version of the popular Type 88621-C
   SDB in Imperial service. Designed around proven Sylean Industry Norm
   (SIN) modular components, this vessal can be built rapidly in any
   commercial or military shipyard. The resulting cost savings are
   considerable, allowing a capable ship to be built at a low price.
   Since it is built to SIN Tech-A standards, it can be serviced and
   repaired by clients without advanced dockyard facilities outside the
   Imperium.
   
   The design philosphy of the Type 88621-A places highest priority on
   operational flexibility. In practical terms, this means a high-quality
   sensor system to search out the enemy, an airframe hull that allows
   operations in all environments (including gas giant atmospheres), high
   acceleration to avoid superior forces, and a mix of missile and gun
   armament to suit a variety of targets. What this ship cannot destroy,
   it can run away from, aided by the large array of sandcasters to
   protect from enemy fire.
   
   The Type 88621-A is also designed to operate for prolonged periods
   with little outside support. The large 71 ton cargo bay is designed
   for missile storage to reload firing tubes, allowing multiple volleys.
   A large MFD array allows the crew to control and target a mass launch
   of all 15 missiles at once. For smaller, weaker targets (and for
   finishing off larger ones), the PA gun allows economical fire that
   does not expend expensive missiles, allowing for longer time between
   resupply. Finally, the onboard mechanical shop and fuel refining
   system mean that the Type 88621-A is independant of base support.
   
   Crew accomadations are standard, with a large stateroom for the
   Captain, small staterooms for the other command crew and the pilot,
   and bunks for the other crew members.
   
   Please contact your nearest Generica sales office for more information
   about the Type 88621-A and other fine Generica ships.
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
  Unicorn class SDB
  
   Designer: Idiot/Savant idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz
   Firm: New Victoria Naval Architects
   System: QSDS 1.5

Tons: 500 Std (Slab S)    Volume: 7000 m^3             Cost: 300.2 MCr
Crew: 19                  High/Mid Pass: None          Low: 0
Cargo: 8 Std              Controls: Military (Bridge)  TL: 10

08 Size                               00 Jump Drive (00 Std/Pc Fuel)
                                      02 Maneuver (HEPLaR, 560 Mw) {*1}
01x MilLaser Bay (+3) 1/02-00-00-00   04 Power Plant (1000Mw)
03x Missile Barbette (+3) 03/06      261 Fuel (Scoop 200, Refine 5)
 w/ 45 Missiles                       00 Meson Screen
                                      02 Sandcasters (40 Cans)
                                      00 Nuclear Damper
                                      A4 P4 J0 Sensors
                                      20 Armor, 16 Structure

Crew Detail: 3 Command, 3 Sensors, 8 Gunners, 2 Engineer, 1 Steward,
             2 Maneuver.

Notes: {*1} 25 hours (100 G-turns) of maneuver fuel carried.

   Another product of the New Victoria Naval Architects design bureau,
   the "Unicorn"-class SDB is purpose-built for the export market.
   Targetted at Imperial client-states and low-tech NonImperial worlds,
   the Unicorn is capable of performing patrol, customs,
   piracy-supression and light system-defence duties.
   
   Like NVNA's other commercial designs, the Unicorn is constructed
   entirely from ISDP components. Not only does this reduce costs, it is
   also hoped that the demand for spares will help bring outside worlds
   closer to the Imperium. [Note to PR Rep: Leave this bit out of the
   export-market advertising, OK?]
   
   The Unicorn is based around a 500 DspT streamlined slab hullform and
   the smallest possible TL-10 ISDP fusion power-plant - which still
   produces a healthy surplus of 40 Mw. Acceleration of two standard
   gravities is provided by a 560 Mw HEPLaR drive system. While this
   acceleration may seem low, the limited G-compensation technology
   available at this tech level make it the best that can be done without
   adversely affecting crew performance. The fuel tanks hold fifty
   G-hours worth of reaction mass, and the ship is fitted with fuel
   scoops and a small purification plant to allow wilderness refuelling
   and prolonged operations.
   
   Like most other SDBs, the Unicorn relies on missiles for its primary
   armament; however, it mounts a single forward-mounted laser as a
   backup and for those occasions where the deadly force of a missile is
   unnecessary or not deemed cost-effective. Fire-control is provided by
   two MFDs, each of which is capable of controlling three missiles, as
   well as a dedicated MFD on the laser. The hull is lightly armoured,
   but is backed by twin sandcaster turrets. Controls, communications and
   sensor arrays are all military grade; however, because of the sensor's
   limited range we recommend that the Unicorn be deployed in groups or
   be equipped with sensor drones.
   
   Crew accomodations follow the standard Imperial pattern; the Captain
   and other officers each have individual staterooms (the Captain's
   being larger, of course), while the crew share small staterooms.
   Finally, 8 tons of cargo space is provided, which can be used to carry
   extra stores for long-duration missions or as an extra missile
   magazine (16 rounds capacity).
   
    DESIGN SEQUENCE:
    

                        Crew    Volume  Cost    Surface Power
Hull - Slab S (500)               21.9   136.2
2G HEPLaR                0.1      4.0     0.6     56.0  560.0 Eng
Fuel (25 hrs / 100 GT)          250.0
TL-10 Mil Controls                2.6     6.2      0.4    1.9
TL-10 Small Mil Sensors  1.4      1.9    67.0    154.4   82.7 Elc A4 P4 J0
TL-10 Advanced Commo     1.8      0.0     2.0    203.0   21.5 Elc
TL-10 Laser Bay          1.0     50.0   104.0     91.6  125.0 Gun
3 * TL-8 Missile Bbbt    3.0     18.0     0.3     60.0    0.6 Gun
Magazine (30 Msls)               15.0
2 * TL-10 MFD            2.0      7.8    96.2     12.4   26.8 Gun
2 * TL-10 Sandcaster     2.0      6.0     1.4     20.0    2.0 Gun
Purification Plant (5/Hr)        17.0     0.1             3.4
TL-10 1000 MW PP         1.2     35.7   100.0          Eng
Reactor Fuel                     11.0
Bridge w/ 18 WS                  18.0     0.0
1 * Lg SR                         4.0     0.1
10 * Sml SR                      20.0     0.4
Cargo                             8.0
Waste Space                       0.3

Totals:                         469.3   400.2    597.8  960.1
                                        300.15

Crew:
Eng             1.3     2
Elc             3.2     3
Man             2.0     2
Gun             8.0     8
Scr             0.0     0
Sml             0.0     0
Com             2.5     3
Stw/Gen         1.0     1
                       19

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:17:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 6: Entries (2/4)

                                      
  Kukri class SDB
  
   Designer: Chris Cox chriscox@ix.netcom.com
   Firm: Ashkha Star Command
   System: QSDS 1.5

Tons: 800 Std (Sphere S)  Volume: 11200 m3      Cost: 933.4Mcr 700.1 w/discount
Crew:  33                 Hi/Md P: 3            Low P: 0
Cargo: 18.5 Std           Controls: Fib/Bridge  TL: 10

Size: 8                              0   Jump
                                     2   Maneuver (HEPlaR, 25G-hours)
Lsr bay x 4 (+3) 1/2-0-0-0           7.5 Power Plant (3000 MW)
Msl barb x 8 (40x msl all ready)   219.6 Fuel (S 320 R 3)
    (2 x batteries, 4 barb. ea.)     2   Sandcasters (40 cans)
MFD 2x(+3) (6 ctrld)                A4 P4 J0   Sensors (0 Stealth/Cloak)
                                    30   Armor  18 Structure
                                    28   Length (m)

Crew: 33 (1xCommander, 1xSub Commander, 1xMaster-at-Arms, 1xPilot,
          4xLaser Gunners, 2xMissile Gunners, 2xSand Gunners,
          3xEngineers, 2xSensor Operators, 1xCommunications Operator,
          1xDoctor, 1xLeader, 1xSub Leader, 12xTroopers)

Facilities: 1 x sickbay, 32xSmall Staterooms, 8xLarge Staterooms

     The complete version of this boat
     (http://users.aol.com/ogerdude/sdb.htm) is on-line at the Draconis
     Cluster (http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm). It include stats
     for both T4 and TNE, an illustration and a set of deckplans. 
     
   Option:Bruce Alan Macintosh posted his list of QSDS sensors design
   with FF&S2. If those sensors are used in place of the current QSDS
   sensor the Kukri's sensors would be: Small Mil: Power 7.0MW, Cost
   135.0MCr, Area 26.5m2, Vol 5.1dton, Minimum Hull size 40dton, Rating
   A11.5 P13.5 L14.5 JA11 JP0, Crew 2.0. With these sensors the Kukri
   cargo would be reduced to 15.3dton.
   
   The ship's cost would be increased to 1000.4MCr and the discounted
   cost would be 750.3MCr if the sensors are considered standard QSDS
   components or 784.8MCr if not.
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
   Star Command PublicInfoFeed: The Ashkha Star Command is proud to
   announce the latest addition to the fleet, the Kukri class System
   Defense Boat. The Kukri be the largest and most advanced craft in the
   Home Defense Division and will the first craft in the fleet to use
   laser weapons. Finally lasers have been developed to the point where
   they are powerful enough and have a sufficient range to be used in
   space combat. The Kukri's four 400 Megajoule lasers can fire on
   targets as far a 300,000km away. However, as fearsome as the Kukri's
   lasers are, she is also armed with 40 missiles and is capable of
   engaging 14 targets simultaneously with the use of 2 master fire
   directors and 8 security troopers in the barbetts. At the heart of the
   boat are two 1,500MW Power Plants which can fully power all system at
   the same time. All of this is encase in a 10cm Crystaliron hull and is
   propelled by an array of 16 Yakdyne engines giving the Kukri a maximum
   acceleration of 20ms2. While the boat can accommodate 40 individuals
   with 32 bunks and 8 stateroomes, the normal operating crew is 33
   including a 14 member security contingent. This security contingent
   allows the Kukri to perform customs and rescue duties in addition to
   its system defense role. Overall the Ashkha Star Command is quit
   confident that that Kukri will help ensure the security and safety of
   Ashkha for many decades to come.
   
   [Less than two years later only two Kukri class System Defense Boats
   would survive the Invasion of Ashkha by the People's Assembly of
   Luurin Uugluu.] 
   
    Design Notes:
    
   The design was done with the assistance of Craig Barry's QSDS
   spreadsheet. Basically this boat is designed to show what a TL-10
   craft using lasers would be like. The 32 bunks mentioned above were
   built as small staterooms, to allow for the extra space needed to
   properly represent the bunks and the various crew common areas on the
   deckplans. Missile barbetts in QSDS and heavy missile turrets in SSDS
   are inconsistent.
   
   While for the most part they seem the same the turrets in SSDS include
   workstations for gunners, while QSDS makes no mention of this. Also
   QSDS requires bridge workstations for all gunners, while SSDS requires
   bridge workstations only for MFD operators. In these cases I chose go
   use the SSDS rulings over the QSDS ones.
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
  KE-SD/10b "Predator" System Defense Craft
  
   Designer: Bill Prankard BPRANKARD@theiia.org
   Firm: Kor-El Shipyards
   System: QSDS, SSDS, HTH

500Std Box SL                            Cost 250Mcr (40 for 10Gcr)
Crew:18         High: 6(Senior Officers) Mid: 12(Crew)
Cargo:40        Controls: TL-10 Dynalink-Military Fb w/ Command Bridge

0 Jump Drive
2g Manuever Drive TL-10 HePlaR(560Mw)
120Std Fuel (24g/hours, 10Td/hr@2g)
1 x 100Std TL-10 Missile Bays  (+3) w/ 1dmg 6g12 (Std TL-10 HE Missile)
8 Launchers w/ 13 reloads per launcher per bay
2 extra Missile MFD's(contol up to 9 missiles, 2MFD+BayMFD)
4 x TL-10 Sandcasters, Deflect 2USD each (Sandcaster USD: 8 total)
4 x TL-10 67Mj Laser Turrets, (+0) 0-0-0-0(Point Defence range only, 1 USD each
)
1000MW TL-10 Fusion  PP Rate: 4  Scoops: Yes Refinery: Yes (10tons/hrs)
Power Plant Fuel 10.7 Tons
Total Fuel Rate 50.7
Sensors A0 2P 0J EMMasking
Armour: 20 Structure: 18=0D=0A
Crew: 18 2Command, 2Engineer, 2electronics, 1Manuever, 11 Gunners

   Kor-El is X-TEK's Low Tech Shipyard Branch, just recently made a
   partner in the corporation. The KE-SD/10a "Predator" is Kor-El's First
   Attempt at a purely military craft, using available TL-10 technology
   and X-TEK military strategy. The 'target saturation' tactic (common in
   low tech navies) was incorporated into the Predator by the use of a
   100ton missile bay. With thise bay the Predator can launch up to 8
   missiles in the space around it per combat round, therefore confusing
   the enemy with multiple inbounds. The bay comes equiped with an MFD
   control systems, but 2 more Missile MFD's were installed so a full
   spread be guided to the target with pinpoint accuracy. Although
   origonaly designed with the Standard TL-10 HE Missile in mind (about
   0.1Mcr each) X-Ray Nuke Pulsed Warhead missiles could be installed in
   the bay as well, but the cost of such missiles is significantly
   higher. (about 0.9Mcr each). Defence was addressed by giving the
   Predator 4 Sandcasters for beam deflection, and 4 Point Defence Lasers
   to deal with possible inbound missiles. Also so that it may hide in
   it's 'lair' and strike without warning, the Preditor is equiped with
   EM Masking. The Predator having no J drive is a strictly systembound
   craft, with the added room, more fuel has been added for the HePLaR
   Engines, up to 12 hours duration at a constant 2g velocity, this does
   not limit the craft however as it is also capable of gas giant
   refueling. The fuel processor insures that only clean H2 gets pumped
   into the HePlaR, maximizing effecency and reducing wear on the HePlaR.
   The Predator was designed for long duration patrols in mind and
   therefore the crew was given attention with 6 Large Staterooms for the
   Senior Officers(Captain, 1st officer, Electronics Chief, Chief
   Engineer, Chief Pilot, and Gunnery Sergeant) and 12 Smaller staterooms
   for the remaining crew.
   
   Another variant in the works is the KE-SD/10a. This variant forgoes
   the Missile bay by replacing it with a TL-10 100ton bay laser.
   Although a bay sized laser is the most efective laser weapon at this
   tech level, it does tend to be very expensive and consumes enormous
   amounts of power. This was X-TEK/Kor-El's first concept, but price
   concerns cancelled that project at the last minuite. The missile
   configuration above being prefered for the mission specs of the PE
   issuing the order.
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
  Eman SDB
  
   Designer: Michael Koehne kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de
   Firm: Vulkan Werft
   System: FFS

Eman System Defence Boat

Tons: 300      Volume: 4200                  Cost in MCr: 480
Crew: 14/25    Controls: adv/bridge/Fib      Tech Level: 10

8 Size                                     4 G / HEPlaR
3*Fire Control   FC3/5clicks               7 Power Plant
1*PD Fire Control FC3/2clicks            107 Fuel / Scope / Refine
1*L - 1*250 Mj Luerssen - 3,3,2,0          2 (40) Sandcaster
1*L - 2* 65 Mj Luerssen - 4,0,0,0          2 decoy dispenser
1*L - 1* 65 Mj Luerssen - 2,0,0,0   0A 5P 5J Sensor / Masking
1*M - 2*auto launcher - 6(18)             80 Armor / 13 Structure

Maechti Battle Tender

Tons: 900      Volume: 12600                 Cost in MCr: 1080
Crew: 30/45    Controls: adv/bridge/Fib      Tech Level: 10
Cargo: 0       Passenger: Medium 20/40       Low: 12

8 Size                                     2 G / HEPlaR
6*Fire Control    FC3/5clicks              4 Power Plant
2*PD Fire Control FC3/2clicks            276 Fuel / Scope / Refine
                                           1 (1800) Jump
3*L - 1*250 Mj Luerssen - 3,3,2,0          4 (80) Sandcaster
3*L - 2* 65 Mj Luerssen - 4,0,0,0          4 decoy dispenser
1*M - 2*fast launcher - 12(48)     10A 5P 5J Sensor / Masking
repair shop/sick bay                      80 Armor /16 Structure

Luerssen Class Fleet Escord

Tons: 600      Volume: 8400                  Cost in MCr: 1020
Crew: 25/42    Controls: adv/bridge/Fib      Tech Level: 10
Cargo: 0       Passenger: Medium 4/8         Low: 6
8 Size                                     3 G / HEPlaR
6*Fire Control    FC3/5clicks              6 Power Plant
2*PD Fire Control FC3/2clicks            152 Fuel / Scope / Refine
                                           2 *1 parsec Jump
4*L - 1*250 Mj Luerssen - 3,3,2,0          4 (80) Sandcaster
3*L - 2* 65 Mj Luerssen - 4,0,0,0          4 decoy dispenser
1*M - 2*fast launcher - 12(18)     10A 5P 5J Sensor / Masking
repair shop/sick bay                      80 Armor /16 Structure

                              Dear Lord Byron,
                                      
    Vulkan Werft is most interested to hear that Autarch Zomaiir III is
    planning to invest in System Defense Boats. Security of our glorious
      Kaneshi Empire is paramount. We laud the plans to use local ship
   builders which will strengthen the Empire's industry and development.
                                      
   As you know, Vulkan Werft has had a long history in building civilian
   ships such as small armed freighters (the so-called 'Rock'n'Rollers').
       Less well known is the fact that our sister company, Luerssen
   (manufacturers of the Luerssen class Fleet Escort), have had a design
     for an SDB on the board for several years. This design is based on
     their well known Fleet Escort which is widely feared by Vargrs and
      pirates alike as it capitalizes on the best of recorded Solomani
                               technologies.
                                      
   Your suggested purchase order of 10,000 MCr would allow us to produce
   twelve 300 dt Eman SDBs and 2 Maechti 900 dt Battle Tenders capable of
   transferring three Emans two parsecs. The budget would also cover two
                 additional 600 dt Luerssen Fleet Escorts.
                                      
   All the craft are streamlined wedges with an armor factor of 80, fuel
     scoops and purification plants capable of cracking their hydrogen
    requirements in three hours. This makes it possible to run a secure
              frontier refueling operation in some 6-9 hours.
                                      
    Our well known 250 MW ultra heavy Luerssen laser (3-3-2-0) provides
    fire power in long range fights. Two missile auto launchers are able
     to fire six missiles per round, an impact even larger ships should
    fear. Two sandcasters and three 65 Mj point defense lasers (2:1/6-20
     rof 200) serve as active defense. EMM masking, AEMS-5 jamming and
     decoy dispensers ensure that a typical corsair will not even get a
    fire control lock. Combat history shows that quality of sensors and
    the number of fire controls make the difference between victory and
    defeat. Thus, the Eman SDB is equipped with an A0-P5-J5 suite and 3
                       fire controls of that calibre.
                                      
      A dedicated 4th point defense fire control is able to shoot six
    missiles point blank per round, but is also able to combine two 65Mj
                 lasers as a 4-0-0-0 battery in dog fights.
                                      
    A crew of 14 is recommended for battle stations and, of course, the
   damage control team has own contra-grav beds as the Eman is capable of
   4G evasion. A second A0-P4-J0 sensor suite and avionics package at the
   chief's control desk serve as a backup. So it always possible to bring
   the Eman home as long as the power plant is running. The Plant is our
       well known 1000MW Wendelstein C-N-O Fusion. Eman's HEPlaR and
   jumpdrive for the Maechti Tender are also compatible with our civilian
   products. Thus maintainance should not be a problem at any reasonably
                             equipped starport.
                                      
          The Maechti Battle Tender is a warship in its own right.
                                      
    Three Luerssen lasers, two fast missile launchers, four sandcasters
     and six point defense lasers (with 6+2 fire controls) bolster the
   Emans' weapons whilst still leaving accomodation room. For the sensor
   suite, an A10-P5-J5 has been chosen for high performance and to drive
   opponents between the silently lurking Emans. The 1750 MW Wendelstein
       power plant (from our well known 2999er bulk carrier) and the
    Niehlsboah jump drive (from our 1799er wilds Rock'n'Roller) form the
   backbone of the ship's manoevrability. Both are reliable and have been
    fully tested in civilian roles. The Maechti also provides repair and
    recreation facilities for the Emans and their crews in longer fleet
    operations. A large repair shop, two fabrication facilities, as well
               as a sickbay with 12 low berths are included.
                                      
      The Maechti has a crew of 50 including five officers. Full scale
    operations can include up to 92 warriors, 14 of them noble officers.
    The officer's wardroom is naturally kept separate from the enlisted
                              crew's messdeck.
                                      
   Vulkan Werft understand that our beloved Autarch Zomaiir III specified
   cheap missile bulk carriers when requesting an SDB proposal. However,
     in our most humble opinion, an SDB/Tender/Escort combination will
     cover many more areas of operation and be far more versatile than
                             twenty SDBs alone.
                                      
    Your dear son, Sir van Werschenrege, understood to be the next fleet
   commander, would have a strong fleet with the Maechtis, capable of not
       only defending our borders but able to counterstrike at will.
                                      
                            With Kindly Regards,
                                      
     kraehe@bakunin.north.de ( technical design )
     Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk ( vilani lector ;-)
     
                                 Addendum:
                                      
        For a first review we include T4 classification for further
                            information refer to
                                      
     http://www.is-bremen.de/~kraehe/traveller/shipyard/kaneshi
     
                containing deckplan and FFS classifications.
                                      
   The Eman SDB and Maechti Battle Tender from Vulkan Werft are state of
   the art TL10 warships. The Maechti is capable of carrying three Eman
   SDBs. It provides repair facilties for the three craft and recreation
   areas for their crews.
   
   As the Emans carry fuel it is possible for the Battle Tender to make a
   two parsec jump by deep space refuelling. A frontier refuelling takes
   three hours per ship. Jump preparation is 30 minutes with Emans
   attached or 15 without.
   
   Unlike backwater shipyards common elsewere in the wilds, Vulkan Werft
   use sophisticated sensors and fire controls in conjunction with
   specially designed weapons.
   
   The most noticeable features of both the SDB and it's tender are the
   huge 250 Mj Luerssen lasers with a diameter of 11.6 metres and the 40
   meter passive EMS sensor array.
   
   Visitors to Emans often wonder why there are bunks filling almost all
   available free bulkheads. They're soon told that these are contra-grav
   beds for the damage control teams so they can avoid the enormous
   acceleration the Eman is capable of.
   
   On the bridge, a modern dynamically linked installation can be seen,
   surrounded by 19" racks for fire controls and computers. Warriors who
   have served on an Eman say that it's a nice enough ship as long as
   it's only used for short term operations (with 14 people in single
   occupation) or attached to a Maechti. However, it is really cramped
   with double occupancy. Some mention that even with the contra-grav
   beds at crew stations, 4G is not acceptable for more than half an hour
   or so. A typical officer will respond: "this is a warship, not a
   yacht. You're a soldier not here on holiday - if 4G evasion'll keep us
   alive - we'll take it and like it." The main problem with Emans is
   that first line crews prefer the jump capable Maechti or Luerssen and
   often officers feel degraded when they get a commission to serve on an
   Eman. The Kaneshi Empire is working to ameliorate this by offering
   landgrants to nobles who serve on Emans and faster promotions for
   enlisted warriors.
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
  "Scenic View" class Close Defense Vessel
  
   Designer: Martin F C Pickett ceemfcp@cee.hw.ac.uk
   Firm: Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Naval Architects, Inc., Sylea
   System: SSDS

Tons:900 std (SL Needle)  Volume:12,600 m^3           Cost:1,689.289 MCr (1,520
..360 MCr)
Crew:35/35                Pass H/M:0/0                Pass Low:0
Cargo: 4.0 std            Controls: Mil Std(/Br /Fib) TL:10

                               8 Size Rating
                               0 Jump Drive
                               3 Maneuver (HEPlaR, 1,350Mw, 30 GHrs)
                               6 Power Plant Rating (1x2,500Mw)
                             268 Fuel (/Scoop:5.0 /Refine:5.4)
                               4 Sandcaster (40 cans)
                               0 Nuclear Damper
                               0 Meson Screen
                               0 Black Globe
                      A10 P4 J10 Sensors (/EMM)
                              50 Armor, 19 Structure

1x 'LongArcher' Missile Salvo             (+3) 8/8
      w/ 104 Guided DetLaser 1d6/2 6G12

1x 'HedgehogMiniTwin' Missile Launcher    (+3) 6/6
      w/ 12 Guided DetLaser 1d6/2 6G12

2x 'HedgehogMaxi' Missile Cells           (+3) 5/6
      w/ 5 Guided DetLaser 1d6/2 6G12

1x 'HullBusterLight' Particle Cannon      (+3) 2/5-3-2-1

1xSick Bay (8 std)

Crew Details: 4 command, 1 maneuver, 4 electronics, 12 gunners,
              10 engineers, 2 maintenance, 1 steward, 1 medic

Notes:
  Cargo space is used as multi-purpose recreation/meeting/gym
  area for crew

   It is with proud hearts and eager orderbooks that RGNA unveils the
   newest revolution in system-wide Close Defense Vessels, the Scenic
   View class CDV.
   
   Conforming in its entirety to the specifications laid down by the
   great Autarch Zomaiir III on Makan IV:33 Upper, the Scenic View class
   redefines the capabilities of system defense vessels, and pushes the
   price:performance ratio to an all-new high. Coming equipped with
   weaponry to give even the most expansionist enemy pause for thought,
   the Scenic View makes no comprises when the defense of the realm is at
   stake - and neither should you!
   
   Due to an almost unbelievable program of cost-cutting and
   fat-trimming, RGNA can now offer the Scenic View to interested
   governments and other RGNA-approved purchasers at the amazing price of
   1,520 MCr each, enabling a run of 6 vessels for a mere 9,122.16 MCr
   (6.58 vessels per 10 GCr).
   
   Remember - when there is something rotten in your neighbourhood, don't
   worry about 'alas' - just call on Rosencrantz & Guildenstern NA, Inc.,
   and all your problems will sail away.
   
   The Scenic View class provides for all your planetary defense needs:
     * The top of the range 'NightLight' sensor suite is especially
       designed for early detection of hostiles, with redundant backup
       systems to enable full sensor capability even after sustaining
       significant battle damage
     * The state of the art 'MaxPak3' HEPlaR thruster system has been
       built in for those rapid interceptions - make sure the crew are
       strapped into their workstations before starting the burn!
     * The awesome 'HullBusterLight' spinal particle cannon is weight for
       weight the most powerful weapon ever mounted on this type of
       vessel. With long-range accuracy and close-up penetration at only
       a moderate power consumption, this is the heart of the Scenic
       View.
     * The 'LongArcher' high-endurance bay missile system is the perfect
       complement to the custom mixture of 'Hedgehog' rapid deployment
       launchers - in total the system is capable of fielding 24 DetLaser
       missiles in the first moments of any engagement, and can maintain
       continuous deployment for a total of 390 minutes (6.5 standard
       hours!)
     * In defense, the tried and true 'BallastMan' sandcaster system is
       fitted to help avoid scratching the paintwork on the heavily
       armoured hull, aided by the 'SilentNight4' EMM system designed
       expressly for the Scenic View (also available as an option on
       other ships in this range - see brochure for details).
     * The mission endurance of the Scenic View is enhanced by the
       incorporation of maximum flow-rate fuel scoops and purifiers,
       giving complete refuelling in little over 5 standard hours.
     * To increase crew comfort, a 56 m^3 recreation area has been added
       to the military standard bunks provided for the enlisted
       personnel, while officers are quartered in luxurious 28 m^3
       individual staterooms.
       

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1878
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 26 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1879



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Memories
Re: THUDDD - whatzup?
The Lord's Name
OT: Angle and Distance, Cartesian Coords.
Sometimes Ya' gotta draw a line....
ATTN THUDDD VOTERS!!
Re: Jump space
Re: Extended System Generation Question
Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
Re: NEW ship design system??
Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
Kill ff&s2
The Merchant's Viewpoint on Piracy?
Re: Orphans, part deux
Re: Questions about Traveller
RE: Memories
Jumpspace

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:29:10 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Memories

Michael D. Peters wrote:

> They were approached by a group representing a small village well away from the
> population centers around the star port, where I played a little loose with the
> law level, ruling that the listed level pertained primarily to the urban areas.
> These villagers were looking for some help against an armed band that was
> extorting money from them. The players should have thought it through a bit but
> didn't and agreed to help free the villagers from their oppressors.


Duh   Duh-di-Duh   Duh-Duh-Duh-di-di-Duh

Duh   Duh-di-Duh   Duh-Duh-Duh-di-di-Duh

Da-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa   Di-Do-da-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The Magnificent Seven!



Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 22:31:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: THUDDD - whatzup?

> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 03:34:13 +0000 ()
> From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
> 
> Moin Andrew Akins,
> 
> >  Does anyone know what the status of THUDDD is?
> > 
> > If it's defunct, I'd like to post my SDB design to the list to
> > get feedback (that's my favorite part - I really don't care
> > if I win or lose, so much...)
> 
> 	I think that inventor of the THUDDD is offline because of hardware
> 	problems. I could manage to collect the stuff for a central THUDDD6
> 	page. But I would perfer somebody other than me to collect the votes
> 	for the ballot, as I have my own entry.

I'm not the 'inventor' of THUDDD -- think that was Wildstar -- but I am
the current operator.  As the approximately 3.7 gigs of THUDDD 6 data
which I just sent to TML/ISBA may indicate, reports of THUDDD's demise
have been greatly exaggerated...it was more like a month-long coma. :)

I *have* decided to make the THUDDD bimonthly rather than monthly, as this
has been happening despite my plans otherwise since May, and I'm not one
to argue with the Powers of Fate.  So, THUDDD 6 is being called the
"September 1997" contest, and the next one, THUDDD 7, will be the
"November 1997" contest.  The vessel for TH7 will be a heavy fighter, most
likely 20-50 tons. 

By the way, all THUDDD data can be found at the THUDDD website:

  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/thuddd.html

Once again, apologies to all on my prolonged inability to move THUDDD
forward.  I hope we can now make up for lost time!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:41:30 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: The Lord's Name

Thomas Walter Trelenberg wrote:
> 
> *****************************
> I've refrained from replying to direct insults, but now you take the
> Lord's
> name in vain, for which I am sure you will not apologize, no matter how
> offensive your behaviour.
> ******************************
> 
> Thanks for pointing this out.  I hate to see this happen on the list as
> well.  We often talk about not offending others on the list as to
> nationality, or ethnicity, and for most religious beliefs....but there
> are some of us TMLers who are Christians as well and as I have seen
> things like this a lot on the list lately (not to single out anyone in
> particular--this is a general request)....Please, think that this is
> important to some of us.  


Just for the record.  I wouldn't call myself a very religious man, but I
am deeply spiritual.

I don't go to a church, but I am a firm believer in the Allmighty.  

As a matter of fact, I'm reading the Bible (New King James version)
straight through as we speak.  I'm about to finish the first book of
Samuel.

You may think I took the Lord's name in vain, but I don't look at it
like that.  Saying Jesus Christ as an expletive is not taking the Lord's
name in vain.  I can think of some words that do qualify, but I don't
use them.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:00:04 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: OT: Angle and Distance, Cartesian Coords.

I have an XYZ coord system (spatial coords).    X is right to left 
on the plane, Y is depth on the plane and Z is height above/below 
the plane.

I want 0/360 degrees to be a gain on the Y, 90 degrees to be a gain 
on the X and so forth, counter-clockwise.

What is the proper math to take coords (XYZ) and find it on a 
sphere, noted as heading, elevation and distance?  

I have some math, but it is off, when I really map it out on grids.

Sorry to ask here, but I figure someone here, as technical as we all 
are, might know this.

 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:46:55 -0400
From: Paul Kestner <paully@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Sometimes Ya' gotta draw a line....

raveller-digest wrote:
>   <<<< snipity-do-da, snipity-day ...... >>>>
> The thick black line at the bottom is the border <g>.
> Not sure how they mark that in space....
> 
>  << more snip >>

  Silly sentient,  borders are marked in space the
same way they are marked on a map,  with ink. (OK,
sometimes blood.)    You jump a ship out to the 
border site,  spray color pigments of your choice
about into space,  and jump back to base.  You have
just 'marked' one pixel in your border design.
   Repeat as required by design detail,  and budget
constraints permiting.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:29:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
Subject: ATTN THUDDD VOTERS!!

	Because of Craig's unfortunate hardware troubles I believe he has 
posted the wrong version of my THUDDD entry to the list.  Please use the 
version below when casting your ballots.  The important difference is that 
it is about one-third the price.

- ------------------------------

Darkstar-class System Defense Boat 

Designer: John Macpherson
Firm: His Majesty's Royal Shipwrights College
Design System: FF&S2

Tons: 1000Std (Asteroid)	Volume:14000 m^3	Cost:458.74 MCr
Crew: 33			High/Mid Pass: 0	Low: 16
Cargo: 15.5		 	Controls: Fib/Bridge	TL: 10

Size: 9					0 Jump Drive
2xLaser (+0) 1/1-0-0-0			1 Maneuver (Heplar, 500MW, 53 G-turns)
1xPAW   (+2) 2/11-9-6-3			2.8 Power Plant (1x1413MW)
        (+3) 2/11-8-5-3			236.6 Fuel (Scoop 0, Refine 4.65)
        (+4) 2/10-7-4-2			0 Meson Screen
					2 Sandcasters (40 Cans)
1xDocking Ring (Fuel Shuttle)		0 Nuclear Damper
					*A11 P13x2 J0 Sensors, Sig:.5, 0 (-2),0
					40 Armor, 1000 Structure

Crew Detail:  4 Engineers, 4 Electronics, 5 Maneuver, 9 Gunners, 
	2 Screens, 2 AuxCraft Crew, 0 Troops/Marines, 5 Command, 
	1 Stewards, 0 Medical

*This is the FF&S2 rating.  Sensors are listed by sensitivity and 
Signature is listed Sig: Visible, IR(powered down), Active

Notes:  The Darkstar is equipped with extended life support capable of 
maintaining atmosphere and water indefinitely.  It carries 3 months of 
normal rations and 2 weeks emergency rations.  It is equipped with a 
galley, two gyms, and both machine and electronic shops.  The low berths 
are emergency berths for casualties.  The Fuel Shuttle can completely 
refuel the Darkstar in 11 hours.  Additional crew is carried so that 
sensor and engineering stations can stay at Alert status at all times.  
With only life support and sensors powered the Darkstar is 
indistinguishable from a normal asteroid.

	The Darkstar is so named because it has the ability to disguise 
itself as a common metallic asteroid and then strike with its massive 
particle accelerator from ambush.  The Fellowes of the Royal Shipwrights 
College believe that this ability solves a common problem with SDB 
tactical deployment.  Most SDBs are designed to hide in the atmospheres 
of gas giants or in the depths of oceans.  While these tactics are quite 
successful in concealing the ship from invaders, they also blind the SDBs 
sensors in equal measure.  
	To overcome this problem, the Darkstar is designed to hide in 
plain sight.  With its drives and weapons powered down, the Darkstar is 
indistinguishable from a normal metallic asteroid.  From this position, 
the Darkstar can observe approaching enemies without being detected and 
rally His Majestys space fleet.  This remarkable capability is made 
possible by placing the Darkstar inside the shell of an asteroid and 
concealing its thermal emissions with advanced thermal masking technology 
developed by our faculty.  
	The Darkstar is not merely an early detection platform.  It is 
also equipped with the most powerful Particle Accelerator Weapon ever 
constructed for a ship other than a Ship-of-the-Line.  This is 
accomplished by another Royal Shipwrights College breakthrough.  While 
traditional particle beam weapons are constructed as linear accelerators, 
the Darkstars weapon is a circular accelerator, or cyclotron.  Cyclotrons 
can continously accelerate their particle beams in a circle and achieve 
very high particle energies without the need for exceedingly long 
accelerator tunnels.  The Darkstars cyclotron can vary its rate of fire 
and release many less energetic shots or a few very powerful blasts.
	The Darkstars combat capabilities are completed by a pair of 
laser barbettes for point defense and supplementary fire.  The Darkstar 
is defended by its outer mettallic asteroid shell as well as an inner 
hull of standard crystaliron armor plate.  A brace of sandcaster turrets 
provide another layer of protection.
	The Darkstar is made to be able to remain on station in the 
remotest parts of his Kingdom for extended periods.  It carries 3 months 
of provisions, a life support system of unlimited endurance, and a galley 
and extensive exercise facilities to maintain the morale of the crew on 
long deployments.  It also is equipped with emergency low berths so that 
His Majestys highly trained naval crewmen can be preserved until they 
reach medical help.
	Since the systems of His Majestys kingdom contain numerous 
planetoid belts, gas giant ring systems, and LaGrange point industrial 
asteroids near the mainworlds, the Fellowes believe that the Darkstar 
will have many mundane asteroids amongst which it can hide.  The 
strategic beauty of this ship is that once the existence of the Darkstars 
are known to His Majestys enemies, they will never be able to enter one 
of His systems without worrying that any of the countless asteroids in it 
could be a Darkstar quietly stalking him.  The effort of making an 
intensive, close-range sensor scan of any asteroid near a gas giant or 
other strategically significant point will provide an enormous deterrant 
against invasion.  This deterent will be  magnified ad infinitum by the 
suspiscious minds of His Majestys enemies, who will see Darkstars 
everywhere.  This effect can be increased by placing asteroids of the 
approximate displacement of the Darkstar in various locations as scarecrows.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:40:56 +0100
From: Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Jump space

> Anyway, one idea I toyed with was that jumps take the standard amount of
> time from the viewpoint of the real universe, but are instantaneous from
> the viewpoint of those on board the ship. In this case, the crew never gets
> a chance to try and explore jump space, because time doesn't exist for them
> when they are there (and thus, they can't do anything at all).

I had been thinking about *exactly* this very issue recently.  I came up with 
all sorts of pros and cons, sometimes an issue was both a pro and a con!

Staterooms - as these are about the size of a cabin on an overnight ferry, it 
seems reasonable to treat them like this in Traveller.  Time on-board is to 
linked to time to reach the jump point, giving M-6 ships a reason to exist for 
resons other than combat.

Low berth - everyone woyld need to keep count of "jump week" in the same way 
that low berthers do now.  Low berth would not be cold sleep, but represent 
people travelling without the benefits of a stateroom - hey just mill around in 
the common areas.

Frozen watch - still used for those long patrols.

Distance learning - no more excuses for PC to "learn" Electronics-4 with all the 
spare time in jump space.

Cost of travel - with travel times reduced to less than 24 hours (subjective 
time) it is reasonable to compare jump travel to modern jet aircraft travel ... 
you can cram a lot of people in and reduce the cost of passage to (say) Cr2000 
per parsec.  Just imagine a jump "cruise", you spend a day travelling to the 
next port of call, where you get to visit the local area before your liner jumps 
to the next exciting port of call.  Some places are not very exciting, and you 
stop only to refuel and bring aboard fres fruit (or whatever).

Minimal change to Traveller background - information still travels slowly, but 
we can finally explain those laow freight charges that bug so many people!  I 
like the idea of Free traders being like small cargo ships of fifty years ago 
where carrying a passenger or two to supplement the freight income was 
relatively common.  In the traveller universe, using Free Traders as a "pot 
luck" transport system for rich (by TL 8 standards) backpackers stikes a chord 
with me.

Too much change to the Traveller background - the "feel" of the whole jump & 
trade system will change in a way that many will find uncomfortable.  Newbies 
will never know the difference, so it will not matter to them.

The Long Patrol - Imperial Fleets run a multiple-jump patrol pattern to fly the 
flag in many systems before returning to their "home" port.  Gas gaint 
refuelling and imediate jump to the next system will mean that Navy ships have 
staerooms and life support costs identical to current design systems.

New opportunities to handwave - jump drives now use hydrogen to open up a 
"corridor" between the departure point and the arrival point.  The dimensions of 
this corridor (L, W, H) correspond to the equivalent dimensions of the ship as 
well as distance jumped - which neatly explains why jump "fuel" is proportional 
to volume x Jn.  You cannot "see through" the window to check out your 
destination.  Ships are generally in the corridor for a few seconds (percieved) 
time, and anything that is thrown out of the airlock (or otherwise ejected) will 
usually remain in the tunnel and emerge into normal space with the ship.  
Bullet, lasers, pogo-stick-powered-EVAs and similar "rapid" departure from the 
ship will invariably penetrate the outer limit of the corridor and be lost.  No 
public records exist of people or items surviving rapid departure.  There are a 
few religious groups who claim that seeing the tunnel with their own eyes (from 
an open airlock door) is the ultimate mystical experience.  There are other who 
claim that repeated exposure will make you mad. Scientists have been interested 
by the readings obtained from sensor packages pushed out of the air lock (with 
control wires trailing back into the ship).  Identical sensor packages using 
different EM communication methods (laser, radio) return different readings 
depending on the EM band being used... blah, blah, blah.


Overall, I can't decide if I like this departure from the Traveller background 
... but I'm sure the following debate on the TML will be interesting!


Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:24:17 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Extended System Generation Question

SemoFetus@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Okay, I wanted to clear something up from my MegaTraveller/TNE books on
> Extended System Generation.  In _Step 35: Satellite Size_  "For Worlds: Roll
> 1D-World-Size."  This makes no sense, as smaller worlds would have bigger
> moons.  The mistake in uncorrected in both books and is listed exactly the
> same.  I'm reading it for now as "World Size-1D" but it still kind of needs
> work maybe...
>

You are reading it correctly.  It was a mistake in both editions.

From the MT errata, it's "World Size-1D"


Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:17:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

In a message dated 97-09-25 22:22:34 EDT, you write:

<<  How about it Marc?  Will you take care of your customers who rushed out
 and bought first printings of FS and M0?  >>


Sure. Why not post them here on the list?

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:37:49 +0100
From: "Nick Munn" <N.S.Munn@sheffield.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: NEW ship design system??

SemoFetus@aol.com writes:

>> Wait a minute...are you saying that FF&S2 will ALREADY be 
>> invalidated?? 

[snip]

> It looks like we all might have jumped the gun on this one.

Well, Marc did say that FF&S2 wouldn't be *completely* invalidated.  
I did notice that the proportions he gave for the wedge hull were 1:1 
height:width, whereas the FF&S2 one is 1:2.4:3.5 height:width:length...

This might be a good time to mention that I'm working on a ship 
design process based exclusively on FF&S2 and some extra physics.  
(Not working very hard, I admit.)  The end product ought to be of 
about the same complexity as SSDS on average, with some cute extra 
features.

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:36:12 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

- -> << 
- ->  How about it Marc?  Will you take care of your customers who rushed out
- ->  and bought first printings of FS and M0?
- ->  
- ->   >>
- -> Sure. Why not post them here on the list?
- -> 
- -> Marc
<Stunned mode on>

When i read this, my mouth opened, closed again, and i was overjoyed.
Thanks Marc, this is exactly the kind of attitude i always hoped to 
see in a game designer. You are the best!

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:05:31 -0700
From: Kenji Houston <hokido@primenet.com>
Subject: Kill ff&s2

Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't carry
it. IMO Traveller should never have gone gear head. Traveller 1 gave the
referee and players the basics. The referee had the flexibility to run
the campaign. And players weren't bogged down by complicated rules.

Regarding starships; Starships are not vehicles! A 10 cubic meter power
plant will take 10 cubic meters in a vehicle. Whereas the same power
plant would take 14 cubic meters or one displacement ton in starship.
Why, a vehicle is serviced from the outside, a starship from the inside.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:50:41 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: The Merchant's Viewpoint on Piracy?

Picking one of the pirate discussion quoters pretty much at random (and
still apologising for being a few days behind everyone else):

>The minimal set of circumstances for piracy to work, and for the economics
>of space travel to work, is, I think, the following:
>
>1.  Ships get cheaper
>2.  Ships get easier to disable without expensive damage
>3.  Cargos get easy to transfer or more value dense
>4.  There is some way to get a ship outside easy sighting range for long
>enough to take the goodies.

How about looking at the situation an alternative way (i.e. from the
viewpoint of the merchant rather than the pirate):

1. Merchant ships are so expensive that if someone comes along who wants a
fight, it's cheaper for the merchant crew to lose their cargo than to have
their ship damaged? This is presuming that the ship has anti-hijack systems
(to prevent all the drives, etc. working) which make stealing the ship
itself pretty much impossible.

2. Merchant ships can't afford to have any civilian casualties, so as per 1,
it's cheaper for them to hove to.

3. A lot of pirates use 1 & 2 and rather than actually bothering many ships,
live off the protection racket, which is probably cheaper to the merchants
than insuring their ships against the pirates?

It might sound a bit silly at first, but if you look at the real world,
things like (3) above tend to happen quite a bit...

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:39:46 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Orphans, part deux

On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:13:05 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

>In a message dated 9/24/97 3:17:15 PM, you wrote:
>>I'm afraid I agree.  I'm waiting (not very) patiently for things to
>>stabilize.  Until then, I'll stick to High Guard with a few mods.  (This
>>is 'cause all my existing stuff is CT.)  I am REALLY looking forward to
>>something OFICIALLY standardized.
>
>I've basically stayed out of the FFS2 discussion because I'm pretty sure I'm
>persona non grata with the Imperium entity. That, and I wanted to give others
>the opportunity to revel in the joy of Imperium's proofreading and
>committment to quality rather than deadlines...which is a real shame, because
>I enjoyed doing the work. Sigh.
>
>Anyhow, it isn't Traveller, but the CORPS vehicle design system (VDS) should
>be out in .pdf form within a month. It isn't Trav, but it will be official
>and standardized at least. And if there are any bugs, it's a lot easier to
>correct them in .pdf form. It won't be in a form like 3G^3, but most vehicle
>stats are real-world numbers that need no specific game conversion. Armor
>thicknesses and the like can either be converted or just use the thickness
>and convert to the system of your choice.

Available through Hyperbooks as usual? Any idea of a price yet? (I want to put a
pre-order in!)

Phil


- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:47:20 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

David P. Summers writes:
>Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:35:34 +0200 (METDST), Hans Rancke-Madsen
><rancke@diku.dk>
>>Here's how it would work: You designate a fairly large sphere a bit outside
>>the jump limit as the arrival area. All ships know that they have to arrive
>>within that area (It's the law). You have as many patrol ships as the traffic
>>warrants stationed there. When a ship arrives it is given a place in a queue
>>and told to wait. While the ship is waiting it is inspected by the patrol.
>>Any ship with weapons have them deactivated. Once the 'Orbital Guard' has
>>made sure of the ship's identity and general harmlessness it is allowed to
>>proceed down to the surface.
> 
>Well, you still have ships just plain jumping in someplace other than they 
>intended.  

That would depend on just what version of the jump rules you use. Some of
them has jump arrivals accurate to (IIRC) 30,000 km.

>You also could have a ship posing a merchant until the patrol pulls up and 
>then launching a suprise attack 

You're forgetting the most crucial difference between a navy ship and a
pirate/corsair: The navy is paid to fight, the pirate only fights to get
paid. In other words, pirates don't like fair fights... or any fight that
may impose repair bills greater than the potential gain.

>(which is why you need to have multiple ships of decent size).  

Which is what you would have. You appear to have completely ignored my
financial arguments, ie. how many assets a world pays for _anyway_. I'm
not talking about ships employed by a merchant who can't use more to
defend with than he gains by defending it. I'm talking about government 
who has the ships in the first place and may as well get some use out of
them. 

>However, the main question is, is it worth the fuel. There is an optimum 
>place to jump from for each planet, and, if you have carefulling arranged 
>to have your velocity vector favorably alligned as you come out of jump, 
>having to stop and be inspected is also a waste of fuel. Given how small 
>the actual loses due to priracy are, I'm not sure it would be seen as 
>worth it.

Right, and I suppose no merchant would ever bother with insurance, because
statistically insurance is always more expensive than the event it insures
against. Losing a few credits worth of fuel is peanuts to the potential
losses. The time lost is a lot more expensive and even that is not very
much compared to the potential loss. Plus, it's not like the merchants
would have any choice if the government demanded it.
 
>>If piracy is a problem then ships will use the designated arrival and
>>departure areas. Losing a few hours may be distressing for a merchant,
>>but not nearly as distressing as losing a cargo (Or getting a thumping
>>fine for violating regulations).
> 
>It depends.  If one in 10,000 ships looses a cargo to piracy then it may 
>not be.

It is the exact same problem as insurance. If only one house in 10,000
ever burns down, why bother with fire insurance? The answer is that it
is really ruins your life if you happen to be no. 10,000. Losing a few
credits to safety precautions won't break a company  --  they just pass
along the expense to their customers  --  but losing a cargo or a ship
really will (So the will have piracy insurance; one way or another the
customers get to pay anyway; it makes sense to go with the solution that
makes plunder and mayhem an unviable option).

>>>Well, Regina has to have a dozen patrols just for the main world (and
>>>in fact, you want them in twos or threes since you don't want to make
>>>sure that they will be able to out gun the pirate).
>>
>>A world like Regina will have a lot more than a few paltry 400 T patrol
>>ships. 70% of its naval budget goes to system defenses. That's all those
>>orbital fortresses and cruiser-sized SDBs that has to hang around anyway
>>to prevent Mr. Zho from coming calling. They should be able to deal with
>>a pirate or two while they're waiting.
> 
>Sure, I agree that Piracy around Regina won't happen.  But when you start 
>talking about doing this on all those other worlds in situations where you 
>do have to take away from planetary defenses, it's another story.

It would be another story if you had to detatch, say, 10% of your planetary
defenses to do this on other worlds. But you don't. We're talking about a
fraction of 1/1000th of you planetary defense. Makes a difference, don't 
you think?

>>The other worlds, yes, the Gas Giants, no. Splitting your naval strength
>>in two or three is simply an invitation to be defeated in detail.
> 
>So you think that piracy might occur around a Gas Giant?

No, not really. Most Gas Giants won't be used for refuelling anyway. Those
that are will have an area patrolled by a few patrol ships (those that don't
have a refuelling station selling refined fuel orbiting the Gas Giant; it
won't take much regular traffice before such a station is economically
viable). And Gas Giants are so big that even for completely unguarded Gas
Giants the chance of a pirate lurking just where you decide to skim is
quite remote.

>>They could well spare them, but they won't have to. That's one of the
>>things the Imperial Navy will do for them.
> 
>I don't agree.  You yourself point out the problem with splitting
>defense.  As far as the Zhos go, Regina is in the middle of
>a huge bull's eye.  They aren't going to be dispersing forces
>to backwater worlds casually.

Not even a fraction of 1/1000th of their forces? If nothing else, piracy
is bad publicity; a succesful piracy would reflect badly on the Imperium
and on the Imperial Navy.
 
>>It's my impression that most governments don't like pirates.
> 
>They don't like a lot of things.  They also don't like smuggling,
>but they don't dislike it so bad as to have 10 people search
>every ship after every jump from top to bottom.

It's a question of degree. Customs officials don't get all that upset about
the odd smuggled bottle, so they only spot-check for smugglers. Air-port
security really detest hijackings, so they closely scrutinize every single
passenger. The kind of dislike a government has for pirates are of the
second kind. They will do it if 1) they can afford it (and they can) and
2) it is necessary (and it won't be necessary for all ships, only those
they don't know well).

If you reply, please do address the question of how many assets would be
needed to curb piracy and how many assets are available.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:46:27 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Memories

Hah!

Another hose job at the players' expense!

Well done, Mike.

An early issue of a RuneQuest magazine ran a spof cult writeup - the B'stard Gee'em.
The line that stuck out was 'these individuals are shunned and feared by normal society...
almost certainly insane... yet the necessity of the game requires fearful cultists
to seek out the Gee'em and bow down in worship...!

Sounds about right.
Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:20:39 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Jumpspace

I've always taken Jspace (non-space-as-such, yeah) as a sort of meeting
place of many dimensions.
The one week (+/-) travel time is just a vagary of the wierd rules that
operate there.

We've never had a 'canon' explanation of exactly what goes on in Jspace, and I'm glad.
Because it means we can play with the concept and do what we like. I've
always assumed a connection with psionics and Jspace, and also that there
are 'things' in there.

Let me tell you a story:

Venturer and Footloose are travelling to Darvli Ga to begin the SDC uplift
operation. Footloose is a far trader full of NPCs and important mission
supplies. Venturer is the players' ship. A couple of systems ago they
encountered the Jump Institute, a collection of labships and Navy escorts
which conducts Jump-related field experiments. Some of them are rather
dangerous.

Larsen, second engineer of the Footloose, was bribed to make an
experimental modification to the Jump Governor. The Institute is a couple
of systems away by now and not immediately brought to mind when the Jfield
begins to distort. Both ships Jump  together by computer link, to they'll
come out together.

Which means they'll both misjump!

Actually the characters' ship entered Jspace rather badly, but made it
after a high-pressure 'damage control' scene. Larsen saw what was happening
to her ship and jumped into the ship's boat, ejecting through a half-formed
J-field. I'll decide what to do with that plot thread later.

Ten days later the Venturer flops out of Jspace in the right place, but
with a crew suffering varying degrees of Jump sickness and a ship needing
repairs. Later, while the ship is in dock, Footloose staggers out. She's
just about dead in the water, not responding to signals. The short-handed
dock authority gives the characters a shuttle and sends them out as rescue
party in return for a reduction in the reapir bills (neat adventure hook,
huh?)

Boarding Footloose, the characters find chaos. Cut bulkheads, welded doors,
hull damage.
'Alien' comes to mind. A crewman is found locked in the captain's cabin -
welded in.  
Another is hiding in a galley cupboard. The skipper and Astrogator are
barricaded into the bridge with all the weapons from the ship's locker. All
these characters are dehydrated, suffering from Jumpsickness and advanced
psychosis. They're scared of each other. The chief engineer is dead, the
characters are told. The Pilot spaced Engineering and killed him. Nobody
knows why and she's missing.


The characters, now on paranoia overload, search the ship. Passing a
doorway, Lewis fails a perception roll and gets crowned with a big spanner.
Firing by reflex he cuts his assailant in half. The Chief Engineer, who'd
managed to get a suit on and cut his way into the hull (hence the damage).
He was completely insane - and also now dead, so he can't offer any
information, but they pieced together his scribbled notes.

He speaks of a 'psionic parasite' that entered the ship through the
weakened Jump field from 'somewhere else'. It possessed the steward (the
guy locked in the cabin), then transferred hosts. The engineer decided to
kill all the other crew to get rid of it - but it can transfer hosts at
will. Nobody can resist it.

Paranoia reaches new levels. The characters manage to enter the darkened
cargo bay, where they guess the missing pilot/possessee is holed up. The
engineer's notes say he managed to shoot her, but she's still alive.

In the bay, the characters eventually confront the pilot. She's dying of a
gunshot wound. But she's built some kind of electronic gizmo and rigged it
to the cargo lift shaft. She holds a pistol not quite pointed at the
characters, a manic light in her eyes. Lewis is an ex-Marine holding a
laser rifle. 

Players, 'Shoot, Lewis!'
The pistol comes up, the pilot lurches forward towards the machine.
Players, 'Shoot, Lewis!'
Lewis tracks the laser rifle to her, to the gizmo. "Will my laser rifle
destroy the machine?"
"Oh yes."
The pilot rests a bloody hand on the machine, reaches painfully for a
switch panel.
Players, 'Shoot, Lewis!'
Lewis: "Drop the gun! We're here to help!"
Players, 'Shoot, Lewis!'
The pilot throws the switch, steps weakly back and slumps into the
elevator. The machine begins to hum.
Players, 'Oh NO! Shoot, Lewis! Shoot shoot shooooooot!'
Lewis tracks to the machine, takes up trigger slack. But something's wrong
here.
The pilot raisses her weapon. Lewis aims at her. The pistol continues to
rise, to aim at her own temple. 
It trembles, as she tries to pull the trigger but somehow can't.
She points to the machine with her bloody left hand. Lewis begins to change
aim again....
The pistol comes round to point at him. Just as Lewis shoots the pilot in
the chest, killing her instantly, he sees the pistol trembling - she knew
she couldn't shoot, but tried. Why?

The penny drops. The parasite was kept out of the ship by the
electromagnetic field of the Jdrive. It got in because of Larsen's
fiddling. The pilot managed to build a field generator and used the
elevator shaft to contain the entity. If it has no host - like she's dead,
and it's trapped, it'll die.
The pilot was a borderline psionic, and managed to fight the entity. But it
wouldn't let her kill herself so she made lewis do it.

But if he's shot the machine instead.....

Isn't Jspace fun!

Martin. 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1879
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 26 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1880



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Questions about Traveller
Re: Port Authority Checklist
RE: PIRATES RULE! (Oh yeah?)
Protecting Jump Points
Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships
RE: Kill ff&s2
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: Choice
Re: A gearhead/techie proposal
M0 and FS
Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships
Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
Re: Taglines
Re: Kill ff&s2
Re: Port Authority Checklist
Re: Kill ff&s2
CT Covert Fast Courier
Jump Projectors
Re: taglines
Re: M0 and FS
Active/Passive Debate
Re: non-human obscure races
European members for BITS/BITS Product Availability

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:08:36 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> writes:
>On 25 Sep 97 at 3:35, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
>Here's how it would work: You designate a fairly large sphere a bit
>outside the jump limit as the arrival area. All ships know that they have
>to arrive within that area (It's the law). You have as many patrol ships
>as the traffic warrants stationed there. When a ship arrives it is given a
>place in a queue and told to wait. While the ship is waiting it is
>inspected by the patrol. Any ship with weapons have them deactivated. Once
>the 'Orbital Guard' has made sure of the ship's identity and general
>harmlessness it is allowed to proceed down to the surface.

>How would the inspection process work?  By order of arrival?

Mostly.

>So the 200 dTon Free Trader (carrying 80 tons of fertilizer) would not be 
>bumped in line by the 5000 dTon Liner (carrying 3 Barons, 18 multi-
>billionaires, a tri-dee star, etc...)?  

Of course it would. "Rank hath its privilledges". What's the problem with
that?

>How about a no-name trader who has been trying to establish a small route 
>at a Oberlindes transfer station - how many 'discrepencies' would be found 
>with their paperwork?

About as many as they would find down at the starport anyway?

>Is every ship boarded, and inspected?

Propably not. Well-known ships on a regular schedule could propably get
clearance on radio messages from their captains. There might still be
spot checks in slack periods, not for anti-piracy reasons, but for customs
inspection.
 
>What happens to ships that just need to transship through the system, do 
>they have to sit through the queue before they can re-fuel, or can they 
>bypass this process?

If the refuelling station has adequate defenses they would propably be
allowed to refuel immidiately (and be inspected while that took place).
 
>How about ship's that do not arrive in this area ('Oops - misjump. Sorry
>about that...)?  

"Don't make any sudden moves, buddy, or you'll get a rocket up your rear!"

>From what I've interpreted from the list, precision astrogation (i.e. 
>pinpointing jump breakout) is... haphazard, at best.  So is your queue 
>position determined by when you check in with Orbital Control, or by when 
>you arrive at the checkpoint?  

Inspections scheduling would go by the convenience of those who do the
scheduling, ie. the inspectors, so the next ship available would be the
next ship inspected.

>But, I have to admit, the smugglers and 'runners would love that - they 
>would know where most of the custom patrol ships would be stationed!

1) Would that be a bad thing?
2) No, they would know where a tiny fraction of the patrol ships were
   stationed. It keeps coming back to this: Piracy (and smuggler)
   suppression is a question of assets available vs. number of places
   you have keep under observation. And in a Traveller universe with a 
   few high-population worlds the assets are many and the places are
   few.
 
>So far as de-activating ship's weaponry...

>At the very least, this would represent another delay  (waiting at the
>Jump Point) while a O'Guard technician re-enabled the ship's weaponry -
>before you could leave.  And, or course, another 'health and welfare'
>inspection to be sure that all your paperwork is in order (while the
>Tukera Lines ship, with the proper waivers, sails on by and jumps).
> 
>O.K., So the large trading companies (with thier large influence), would
>like the setup too...

In other words, the organisations with the clout to oppose such an
arrangement would be in favor?
 
>Also, while the piracy thread has mostly looked at the single pirate, let
>us not forget that the Vargrs occasionally gift the Imperium with a fleet
>of them!

This is not the case. Prior to the Rebellion the largest corsair bands
were not all that big, and if they were a problem, the Imperium could
easily deal with them. A massed attack on an Imperial world would make
life very difficult for the surviving corsairs as they were hunted down 
by Imperial forces and barred from their usual markets by Vargr governments
anxious not to get into a shooting war with the Imperium.

>And tactically, if I could drop mines in this designated
>break-out area, it would be a week, minimum, before the incoming traffic
>could be warned to shift targets.

Recipe for stuffed moose: First you have to catch the moose...
 
>In short, while this would be attractive to highly organized, high law-
>level planets/systems, IMHO it would be detrimental to shipping traffic 
>overall.  The current system, in my campaign, of random inspections is 
>designed to keep smuggling/piracy within acceptable limits while keeping 
>the cost (both to the honest trader and to the responsible agency) at a 
>minimum.

Do you base your opinion on specific economic calculations of the effect
on starship traffic? If so, I would love to see them. If not... well, 
IMNSHO the cost would not be excessive (And, no, I haven't made any
specific analysis, but I guess I could whip up one... some day... when I 
get the time... ;-)
 

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:21:01 +0100 (BST)
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

>I'm trying to put together a list of specific equipment, from the
>equipment listings in each editon of Traveller, that the characters need
>to buy as a minimum to keep the ship running.

Please, O Please, post it when you are finished ....

O and how about a small, but powerfull vacume cleaner for the gally
wouldn't want all those crums floating about when you lose internal
gravity.

If these havn't been mentioned before :-

Vacc suit patches (lots of)
Portable Atmosphear tester (essential for any closed enviroment)
belt and line (one per crew member, for hooking on to the railings in zero
G)

Ewan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:19:34 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: RE: PIRATES RULE! (Oh yeah?)

lugh1@juno.com writes:

>does anyone remember the pirate ships that looked like normal traders on
>the out side but were full to the rim with hidden weapons and armor ?
>said ship could enter a system and pose as a trader useing fake I.D. #
>and jump a trader as it neared the jump point .

That's just what David has been arguing for, but I don't buy it. If such
ships were common (or even rare) the authorities would try to stop them
if they could. And given the Traveller economics, they can.

>also why steal the cargo if you couls HI-JACK a ship for resale or re use?

Only way you can board a ship is when its maneuver drives are inoperative.
Making them inoperative has a tendency to damage the ship around them a
bit. And, of course, if pirates are common the merchants will be armed
and fighting back, inflicting multi-million credit damage back at the
pirate.

>and...how many normal traders turn to a bit of piracy and smuggeling to
>increase the ol' income ? 

Damn few. It just isn't profitable enough when compared to the risk.
 
>and lastly , the Impirum IMHO probably just doesn't have the man power to
>watch every system. 

Well, that turns out not to be the case. The Imperium does have the man-
(and ship-) power to watch every system.

>and some pirates are likely corsairs work for foriegn governments under 
>a letter of Marque. 

This only works when the foreign government is at war with the Imperium.
As soon as Articles of Peace are signed the privateers has to cease their
activity.

>so piracy is possible ,
>hey it happens today sometimes of the florida coast .

Yes, but adjusting for detection and weapon ranges, the US have less
assets, comparatively speaking, than the Imperium and FAR more places
to guard.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:33:39 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Protecting Jump Points

Firstly, thanks to Merrick, Sinbad Sam and Bruce for clarifying the long
range sensors issue. I do some modelling work with radars, but haven't had a
chance to compare them with other sensor systems, hence my slight ignorance. :-)

And for Dave Golden:
>I've already seen things that lead me to think Marc is ignoring FF&S2 for
>Yet Another Ship Design System. Which will completely blow the flame out
>for me. It's already flickering pretty badly.
Uh-oh. Places large gun to side of head and prepares to pull the trigger...

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> then reiterated his concept of patrolled
jump points at the 100 diameter point.

>>You can't have arrival slots since you can't communicate faster than
>>you can travel you can't arrange for people to be expecting you...
>
>Here's how it would work: You designate a fairly large sphere a bit outside
>the jump limit as the arrival area...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but previous discussions have indicated that the
variability in Jump time, navigation et al may lead to you coming out quite
a long way (100,000s of km) from your intended destination. Secondly, if you
use the mass of the main star to determine 100 diameters, I find that some
habitable worlds are sufficiently inside this to require several DAYS of
in-system travel to reach them. That's suddenly an awful lot of area to
patrol... (I calculated these diameters years and years ago, from the Scouts
book data, but I believe they're still correct).

Please don't get me wrong - I think piracy is a rarity by CT days (try
telling that to the Vargr...)

Andy ;-)

And as to the "Aslan and Varge" book, it should also include the Graytch,
and if they've mis-spelt Vargr then I'm going to sue them. :-) (Humour,
smile please!)

P.S. Hans said:
>What's in it for a police officer rushing to stop a robbery in progress?
That would explain why (certain) police (somewhere not too far from me), on
seeing a large punch-up sometimes tend to stand around and wait for the yobs
to deplete their numbers before walking in to arrest the survivors...? ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 07:24:17 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships

Jory M. Earl wrote:
> 
> I was wondering, did they ever develop a weapon that would perform the
> same effect on matter as a "mis-jump" does on a starship?  Granted this
> would be an extremly high tech item.
> 
> What are everyone's thoughts on a weapon of this nature?
> 

Since one of the ways to cause a misjump is to jump while in a
gravitational field (of significant strength), if you could manage
to throw small black holes or neutronium rocks at your opponents while
they jump, you could cause them to misjump.

Of course, if you have that kind of technology, you could just
throw them at your opponents well before they jump and watch the
cool effects of high-G forces on starships.

Naturally, this assumes that you also have some way of hiding the
projectiles.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:00:34 -0700
From: Eric Nolan <ericno@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Kill ff&s2

>Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't carry
>it.

I've seen a number of people say this, but I don't know of any shops
that refuse to carry T4 on the basis of quality.  Similarly people say
that the Foss artwork is rubbish, yet the vast majority of people I've
shown T4 to (and that's quite a few) have liked the artwork.

Extrapolating your personal experience of perhaps only two or three
shops to the entire market is something people do all the time.  It
doesn't make it valid.  The only people who really know how T4 is
selling are IG.

Eric.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:10:50 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

>   Why?  Because you present yourself as a clear target to every bad guy
>within weapons range.  While terrain would not be as much of an obstacle
>as it was in the past (you still have to get all those battledress
>equipped infantry to the other side of the river and battledress doesn't
>float), having lots of woods, hills, and similar features around to hide
>behind or in would be a good idea.
>
>   Think helicopter tactics...

Which brings up a point ... just why do grav tanks look like normal tanks
anyway? [I mean in the illustrations, of course.] Look at the cover of
FF&S, with those Trepida (sp?) grav tanks. Kewl looking, sure, but so are a
lot of mecha. I have a hard time believing that a slab with a big turret on
top is the best configuration for an airborne vehicle.

And its not just the Trepida -- look at 101 Vehicles by DGP, for example.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:37:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Ringrose <ringrose@ai.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Choice

Harold -

>>>>> On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:55:27 -0400, hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale) said:
Harold> True enough.  While I use the TNE game mechanics (with very slight
Harold> mods), I am not above borrowing from other sources if they can be
Harold> adapted easily to my game.

I'd be curious what mods to TNE you use.  I'll be starting a TNE game in a few
months, and while I know my preferred patches for D&D, I really haven't played
Traveller enough to know what needs fixing.

	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ai.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 07:41:06 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: A gearhead/techie proposal

On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> I'd like to see just how large a ship could be and still not create too
> much gravity itself that it's support ships couldn't launch from it.

Well, since starships are pretty much _never_ as dense as planets, I'd
guess it would have to be at least two or three times the size of the
earth to mass as much as the earth, which might generate it's own gravity
to one or so gee, somewhere within it's structure.

The bigger problem is what would you do with a planet sized ship? If
you're insane enough to want to _try_ to make it jump capable, it'll do
things like drain the Pacific Ocean to get enough fuel for jump 1!

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:42:57 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: M0 and FS

Marc Said:

>Sure. Why not post them here on the list?

Huh? Do you mean all of us who have M0 and FS should make ourselves known?

Well... here I is! Owner and user and collector....

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:09:29 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships

>Since one of the ways to cause a misjump is to jump while in a
>gravitational field (of significant strength), if you could manage
>to throw small black holes or neutronium rocks at your opponents while
>they jump, you could cause them to misjump.

Can we say tractor beams.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:00:46 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 97-09-25 22:22:34 EDT, you write:
> 
> <<
>  How about it Marc?  Will you take care of your customers who rushed out
>  and bought first printings of FS and M0?
> 
>   >>
> Sure. Why not post them here on the list?
> 
> Marc

All 30 added pages?

I'd like that.  Or, you can have it as an attachement for those who ask.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:10:15 -0700
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Taglines

The Leroy wrote:

[snip]
>I have drawn many of my favorite quotes from most areas of the continuum.
>I hope you like them as much as I do.
>
>If I use one, it is not due to an attempt to proselytize, but because
>something reminded me of it.
>
>+++++------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Every Communist must grasp the truth: 'Political power grows out of
>the barrel of a gun.'                             --Mao Zedong

Every cretin can grasp the truth:  rhetorical power grows out of misquotation.

I'm sure you're far too busy, O Sapientissimo, but if you've got any
ethical spine at all, you'll dig out the concluding phrase of the quoted
statement and post it.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:07:05 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Kill ff&s2

Kenji Houston wrote:
> 
> Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't carry
> it. IMO Traveller should never have gone gear head. Traveller 1 gave the
> referee and players the basics. The referee had the flexibility to run
> the campaign. And players weren't bogged down by complicated rules.

What are you talking about?

People have complained that T4 is too basic, especially coming off TNE. 
It's the right speed for me, and I'd like to see more optional rules for
detail, but it is a far cry from TNE's overcomplexity.

QSDS is a pretty simple system.  It's as simple as the ship design
process in CT, albeit a little more accurate.

Traveller, and T4 for that matter, doesn't have to be gearheaded if you
don't want it to be.  I buy, but rarely use, the gear head supplements.

There is no reason for it to be so in your campaign.  Just don't buy the
gear head supplements.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:20:36 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

Ewan Quibell wrote:
> 
> >I'm trying to put together a list of specific equipment, from the
> >equipment listings in each editon of Traveller, that the characters need
> >to buy as a minimum to keep the ship running.
> 
> Please, O Please, post it when you are finished ....

I haven't got too many replies on this, and I'm starting to settle on
the original list I posted--so, you already have that.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:31:04 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Kill ff&s2

 From: Kenji Houston <hokido@primenet.com>
> To: Traveller-digest <traveller@MPGN.COM>
> Subject: Kill ff&s2
> Date: Friday, September 26, 1997 9:05 PM
> 
> Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't carry
> it. IMO Traveller should never have gone gear head. 
How does one book kill a game system
IMHO FF2 was the best book of them all, if you don't like it, don't use it.


>Traveller 1 gave the
> referee and players the basics. The referee had the flexibility to run
> the campaign. And players weren't bogged down by complicated rules.
COMPLICATED RULES are you joking, it was so simple my friends wouldn't play
it.
> 
> Regarding starships; Starships are not vehicles! A 10 cubic meter power
> plant will take 10 cubic meters in a vehicle. Whereas the same power
> plant would take 14 cubic meters or one displacement ton in starship.
> Why, a vehicle is serviced from the outside, a starship from the inside.
You could say the same about Old traveller.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:57:59 -0500
From: Matt McLaughlin <mkm@umr.edu>
Subject: CT Covert Fast Courier

I just put the deck plans for this ship (described in a previous post)
on my web page.  It's at

	http://www.umr.edu/~mkm/trav/starship.htm

Hope it's useful!

Matt McL

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 97 12:21:36 -0400
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Jump Projectors

Jory M. Earl wrote:
>I was wondering, did they ever develop a weapon that would perform the
>same effect on matter as a "mis-jump" does on a starship?  Granted this
>would be an extremly high tech item.

>What are everyone's thoughts on a weapon of this nature?

They are called Jump Projectors and they existed in MT and probably CT.
 For some reason they didn't make the jump to TNE or T4. Someone on the
TNE mailing list was trying to come up with rules for them in TNE. I
think it may have been Roger Myhre aka Starwolf.  ( But I may be wrong)

Lewis Roberts
- ---------------------------------------------------------------    
Q:Why did the fish cross the ocean?                    
A:To get to the other tide.  
 
lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:36:29 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: taglines

To paraphrase one worthy:

"Quote yourself, and you'll be remembered forever." -- Anonymous

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:46:25 MET
From: "Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Subject: Re: M0 and FS

- -> >Sure. Why not post them here on the list?
- -> 
- -> Huh? Do you mean all of us who have M0 and FS should make ourselves known?
- -> 
- -> Well... here I is! Owner and user and collector....
Uhh, ditto?

Ad Astra,
V.A.G.       
- ------  Volker A. Greimann, also known as: Grei5001@uni-trier.de  ----
- -- Am Weidengraben 86,C6 - 54296 Trier - Germany - T+F: +49651148846 -
- ------- check out: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4061 --------
- ---- Student of Law, Gamer, Illuminatus Primus, Slayer of Windows95 --

- -----  "Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!" -----

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:37:17 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Active/Passive Debate

Following further active sensor replies from Leonard Erickson and Anders
Backman, I'd just like to say that when I was talking about Active sensors I
was presuming their usage for a lot of things other than just guiding lasers
for targeting, i.e. everything from planetary ground-penetration and SAR
mapping to space combat usage.

Leonard said:
>There's also another trick used in some radars (or so I'm told). You
>send out pulses at differeent frequencies and at "irregular" intervals...
>...the "pattern" of pulses
>means that they don't have the "phantom range" problem that standard
>radars have. 

Yes; encoding the waveform appropriately provides some covert capability,
and the different pulse repetition intervals (i.e. pulse frequencies) give
you longer unambiguous ranges, i.e.

>That's where a pulse from a *long* ways off...
i.e. beyond the unambiguous range
>...returns shortly after a
>second (or even *third*) pulse has been sent out, and thus gets
>interpreted as a return from the later pulse. Thus the reported range
>is the real range minus c times the pulse rate.
(Hopefully I'm not teaching grandparents to suck eggs here...)

Anders said:
>I agree that actives are good for sensing the target and getting info...

I guess this was my main point really; the resolution on small space targets
will not be good because of the wavelengths involved (as mentioned by
someone in a previous e-mail in order to get the long ranges...).

>My feeling why most people want to keep actives is because they do not want
>to play a realistic space combat but a Harpoon(tm) like naval action...

I'd like to be realistic myself; I'm just trying to work out whether the
general declaration about passives beating actives is true in all
situations, whether it be laser, lidar, radar, or whatever. :-)

Presumably at some point this has been discussed to death on the gdw-beta
list or somesuch, i.e. do the FF&S2 rules (combined with current sensor
rules) clearly show that passives are better than actives?

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:46:55 -0700
From: Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: non-human obscure races

Erwin Fritz wrote:

>One of my players is interested in playing a non-human character.
>He's asked about three races, of which I have very little info.
>Does anyone know about the following:

All below excerpted from various online library data.

>Githiaskio	Githiaski/Dartho  (Antares 2406)

Intelligent squidoids some 2-2.5 meters long  living on water world at the
edge of the empire.  Imperial citizens.  [JTAS 16]

>Shi'awei	Chaosheo/Star Lane (Deneb 0130)

Current IISS doctrine discourages interstellar contact between the Imperium
and sophonts below tech level 5. In fact, Imperial law forbids unlicensed
trade with such primitive populations. Exceptions to this rule occur,
however, one being the case of Chaosheo.
	The natives, the Shi'awei, are a race of bulky aquatic sophonts who
live near the geothermal vents in the sea floor. In appearance they are
bulky, bullet-shaped creatures with four evenly spaced arms. The heat given
off by the vents supports their life cycle and affords an opportunity for
rudimentary metal-working. Thus, despite the rigors of their environment,
the Shi'awei have been able to slowly progress to tech level 11.
	The IISS had long been aware of the Shi'awei, but the Scouts judged
them unready for contact and interdicted the system. The interdiction was
broken in 1073 when the Arean Transport starliner Ishgarlu misjumped and
crashed in Chaosheo's oceans. IISS observers watched as the Shi'awei
explored the wreck, encountering several live humans in the process. The
Scouts were forced to step in.
	Since 1073, a simple landing facility has been built for incoming
starships; Chaosheo's travel code has been  upgraded from Red to Amber.
Trade with Shi'awei is limited, but the Scouts have been busy learning more
about the biology and sociology of Chaosheo's fascinating inhabitants.

>Thorellians	Thorell/Nicosia (Old Expanses 0231)

  The native race of Thorell is well adapted to its near-vacuum world,
although archaeologists and geologists maintain the atmosphere was thicker
at one time. Thorellians are a burrowing race, built long and low, with six
limbs. They can see an electromagnetic spectrum from green through
microwaves.
	  Many interconnecting burrows make up a city, which is synonymous
with  a Thorellian nation. there are at least 300 such nations plus smaller
groupings and loners on the planet. Territorial disputes are common but
usually non-violent.
	  Thorell is a Scout Service Red Zone, interdicted until the
natives progress sufficiently to enter the interstellar community. [TD12]


- --------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Griffen                      Phone: (408) 527-7189
Cisco Systems, Inc.                      Fax:   (408) 527-0452
NMBU Technical Publications              cgriffen@cisco.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:08:56 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: European members for BITS/BITS Product Availability

I've replied to this privately as well, but thought I ought to answer some
of this questions for the list at large...

"Volker A. Greimann" <GREI5001@uni-trier.de> asked:

>how are you?
Busy as usual (getting ready to give a conference paper/display is
distracting me from PhD which is distracting me from 'real' work which is
distracting me from Traveller which... etc.)

>I am writing to ask you how the chnaces are for seeing the BITS 
>Traveller Books on the Essen Games Show this October.

I've not managed to arrange anything with Colin at 2nd Games Galore yet; I
chatted to him at Euro GEN CON but life has been a little hectic since then.
I am *hoping* that the BITS products (listed below) and mostly created by
CORE members will become more generally available overseas (and in the UK)
through professional distributors in the near future. I can't promise this
yet; we're in discussions at the moment; it's hard to make the BITS products
at a sufficiently low price to make it worthwhile going through
distributors, but I'd like many more people to have opportunity to get hold
of them.

>On a different topic: What are the chances of BITS accepting members 
>outside of Britain, i am thinking of the Continent here, one person 

We have members in Spain and elsewhere in Europe, so anyone's welcome,
provided they can accept the BITS newsletters by e-mail and can pay me in UK
pounds for membership (a one-off application fee of five pounds, with no
subsequent fee, i.e. it's effectively life membership).

Andy :-)

P.S. Current BITS products:
<start of blatant advertising>
The Long Way Home (the original) 100pp, A4, full colour cover
        (Still got 2 copies left if anyone wants them)
101 Cargos (second edition), 44pp, A5, full colour cover
        (101 cargos, each with its own background and plot links; rules
         for generating random cargos; coding for packaging, hazards, etc.;
         rules for generating cargo-related adventures *randomly*!)
101 Plots, 44pp, A5, full colour cover
        (Just like the old 76 Patrons, packed full of >>100 plot ideas)
101 Travellers, 44pp, A5, full colour cover
        (101 NPCs, intended as passengers for merchant ships, each described
         with their own background, plot links, etc. Ideal as passengers for
         your PCs' ships, or for general NPCs, encounters, patrons, etc.)
101 Rendezvous, 44pp, A5, full colour cover
        (101 locations; from city monuments to the hottest bars in town; each
         fully described, with details of main characters and plot lines
         for further adventures)
101 Lifeforms, 44pp, A5, full colour cover (due out soon hopefully!)
        (You guessed it - 101 alien flora and fauna to populate your planets;
         loadsa illustrations, etc.)
The Traveller Bibliography, 108pp, A5, full colour cover
        (Timothy Collinson will berate me if I don't shout loudly
         about the fact that this bibliography covers every true
         Traveller product from the first black books to FF&S2,
         giving details of authors, size, contents, etc. etc.
         - invaluable to any collector) :-)
Dulinor Software Suite (by Jo Grant)
        (Character generation, astrography, world mapping and a dice-roller,
         all intended for use with the T4 rules)
Scouts Badges
        (we made up scout suits for EGC using 'proper' printed
         cloth badges and visitors to our stand were sufficiently
         impressed that they wanted to give us money for the badges, so
         we're doing a few with customer-selected custom ID numbers
         on them, etc., i.e. have your name or army number on a scout badge!)
All 101 books are 4.50 UKP, excluding postage; badges 2-4UKP, Bib is 8.50
UKP, Dulinor is 5.00 UKP; c. 10% reductions apply for all BITS members,
except on badges)
I'm working on releasing works based on our tournament scenarios, since
these seemed particularly popular at EGC this year, especially the fun one
which combined Red Dwarf with the original Travellers from White Dwarf mag! :-)
<end of blatant advertising>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1880
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 26 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1881



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Book of BITS
The Piracy Threads
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships
Re: Choice
Re: Port Authority Checklist
Re: Challenge 75
Re: Kill ff&s2
Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)
Re: Questions about Traveller
re: Active/Passive Debate
new weapon
Re: Challenge 75
Re: Kill ff&s2
Re: non-human obscure races
Re: Sometimes Ya' gotta draw a line....
Re: T4 Rules

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:03:43 -0400
From: Bob Sanders <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: Book of BITS

Someone wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
but, I would also recommend all the BITS 101 Books (Travellers,
rendezvous,Plots, Cargos)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Any idea on how I can order a copy of these books?

Thanks in advance.

Bob Sanders
bsanders@amghome.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: The Piracy Threads

Let's look at the arguements.

1) Piracy can't exist, because the pirates have nothing to gain.  

From a straight point of view, this can be the toughest to argue, because
it's true.  A pirate with a ship is already a rich man.  What has he to
gain or lose?

So how does he get the ship?  If it's hijacked, selling it could be a
tough thing.  In my campaign, the group is getting ready to sell thier
free trader and move up to a larger ship.  Until the title is researched
and verified, they won't get one credit.  However, I don't think they'll
be too upset, the salesperson stands to make a significant commission.
The financing bank will be putting them up in a 4 star hotel until their
ship financing is verified...  But that would make things...difficult for
a pirate.  Very few people would be able to purchase a ship with funds on
hand.  

So, selling the ship may not be an option.  Selling cargoes, however, is a
fairly easy process, and unlike ships, they can be purchased for cash...

Also, what are the motivations?  Someone who has a purpose may not be
interested in cashing in the ship.  Perhaps the charactor has a grudge
against a specific company or world or whatever, and is only hunting their
ships?  There are many examples of fanatics (unfortunately) that we can
use to illustrate this.

Or perhaps our corsair has the equivalent of a letter of marque...Just
because two worlds (or corporations) are members of the Imperium doesn't
mean that they have to like each other.  While a 'hot war' may not be
permitted, 'black' actions such as preying on each others merchant traffic
may be overlooked.

2) Piracy can't exist, because of the patrols.

This is also a tough one.  I ran the numbers for a response time for a 4G
patrol cruiser to get out to the 100 D point for a UWP size 6 world - 51
minutes.  Not a lot of time.

Of course, there has to be a Patrol Cruiser in orbit for this to occur.

This is where you really have to look at the industrial base of a sector.
Class A and B starports _build_ spacecraft and starships.  Bad JuJu for a
pirate, and operations inside these systems would have to be very
carefully planned indeed.  For everyone else, the ships must be imported.
The maintenance and repair facilities for these ships will have to be
imported.  The personnel manning these ships will very likely have to be
imported. (Can you say mercenaries?) But, it really comes down to, it's
not how many ships can a system support, but how many ships can the sector
starports turn out?

There is also the matter of the composition of the Navy.  While 1,000 dTon
ships and smaller are ideal for custom patrols and anti-piracy work, they
tend to get chewed up and spit out in major fleet engagements.  Larger
ships, while fitting into the mission of the Imperial Navy, tend to be
impractical for serious piracy suppression.  (I'd run, wouldn't you?)

Resoure allocation will be a concern - no matter which era your campaign
plays in.  As long as piracy is a minor concern, keeping in mind that a
1:36 misjump chance is considered acceptable, how much of your resources
are you going to throw at it?  Every ship that a Class C, D, or E system
has to buy is credit that flows _out_ of the system.  Every person that
mans and/or maintains the ships are skill sets that are not being used to
generate credit either in the industrial base, or through taxation/duties
or whatever.   (tho' some would argue that protecting the merchants
encourages growth, and thus generates income - IMHO it is indirect at 
best, and not measurable)

Finally, the discussion has focussed concentration of forces around the
mainworld.  What about the rest?  Admittedly, the bulk of traffic will be
going to the system mainworld, but there is no reason why a merchant could
not be chartered to deliver to one of the other worlds in the system
instead, or to a space station somewhere in the system.  And, as I have
pointed out in other posts, intra-system traffic is an excellent source of
income for the serious corsair - even (or especially) in systems with
Class A and B starports.


- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 97 11:59:53 -0600
From: Mark <bdmahan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

>> While terrain would not be as much of an obstacle
>>as it was in the past (you still have to get all those battledress
>>equipped infantry to the other side of the river and battledress doesn't
>>float), having lots of woods, hills, and similar features around to hide
>>behind or in would be a good idea.

If battledress could be used in vacuum in lieu of a vaccsuit it had 
better be waterproof.  Let the poor bloody infantry walk under, or use 
gravbelts to hop the river.

Mind are like parachutes.  They only function when they are open. - Sir 
James Dewar

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:44:27 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

At 05:17 AM 9/26/97 -0400, MArc wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-25 22:22:34 EDT, you write:
><< 
> How about it Marc?  Will you take care of your customers who rushed out
> and bought first printings of FS and M0?
>  >>
>Sure. Why not post them here on the list?

Marc, this is just amazing.

As one of those owners, I have to say that this would be a very, very
pleasing idea.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:38:24 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Jump fuel requirements for MT starships

Anders Backman wrote:
> 
> >Since one of the ways to cause a misjump is to jump while in a
> >gravitational field (of significant strength), if you could manage
> >to throw small black holes or neutronium rocks at your opponents while
> >they jump, you could cause them to misjump.
> 
> Can we say tractor beams.
>

I'm not that familiar with them, since (in MT) they're higher than
TL15. Would they really interfere with jumping? To do so, wouldn't
they have to use gravitational waves?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:07:58 +0000
From: Tim Connors <tconnor@pop3.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: Choice

At 11:15 PM 9/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>For me, Traveller is pick and choose.  There is wealth of items to pick
>from out there.
>
>In my campaign, I pull things from T4, CT, MT, and TNE.  Now that GURPS
>is out (one of my players has a copy), I've seen some things in it that
>I may adopt for my game.
>
>If I've got four or five ways to design ship, that should be an
>advantage (hey, I'm trying here).
>
>I look at it like this.  Recently, I've been evaluating space combat
>systems.  We've got the one in the original CT books.  We've got High
>Guard.  And, we've got Mayday.
>
>Then, we've got the MT space combat system from those original three
>books.
>
>Next, we've got Brilliant Lances, Battle Rider, and the original BL like
>system in the TNE main book.
>
>Finally, there's this really neat RPSCS system.
>
>Boy, that's a lot of choice for a game master.
>
>And, you know what?  
>
>Other games don't have that kind of choice. 
>
>So, I'm looking at it as a benefit for Traveller.
>
>As far as the ship construction system for T4 goes, we've got a lot of
>choice in that too.  I would prefer something like a basic system, a
>middle of the road system, and a specific-screw-nut-and-bolt system--all
>backwardly compatible--like QSDS, SSDS, and FF&S2 were originally hoped
>to be.
>
>But, hey, that's not the case.  We've got what we've got.  The point
>is--we do have a lot of choice that is not even possible in other game. 
>You are basically stuck with one system, crappy or not, when you play
>other RPG's.
>
>I'm all for constantly trying to make Traveller better, but I've decided
>to sit back, enjoy the hell out of my own campaign, and just use the
>items I want without bothering about items that I don't think are worth
>buying.
>
>I was buying everything that IG put out as soon as it was put out.  Now,
>I sit back and wait.  If I need it, I go and get it.
>
>And as far as choice goes...in my campaign, it is a big universe out
>there.  One planet may be using SSDS, while you go to another planet,
>and you will get ships designed with FF&S2.
>
>No big deal anymore.
>
>Kenneth.
>
	When I was an undergraduate physics student, I thought I had been
introduced to just about every sub-topic of physics that there was.
However, it seems my professor were a little slack, since they missed this
new branch -- adjustable physics. Perhaps this could be developed in
greater depth, like the darkon theory.


Tim Connors

You can't fall off of the floor -- most human beings require two years to
learn this.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:04:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Ewan Quibell wrote:
> > 
> > >I'm trying to put together a list of specific equipment, from the
> > >equipment listings in each editon of Traveller, that the characters need
> > >to buy as a minimum to keep the ship running.
> > 
> > Please, O Please, post it when you are finished ....
> 
> I haven't got too many replies on this, and I'm starting to settle on
> the original list I posted--so, you already have that.
> 
> Kenneth.
> 

Earlier you mentioned that there should be one vacc suit per
passenger/crewmember plus some extras.

Instead, may I propose that there be one vacc suit per crew member plus 1
mobile life support system (ie vacc suit, rescue ball, mobile low berth,
etc...) for each passenger?  Many passengers will not be able to suit
themselves and, in an emergency, there will not be time to wait for a crew
member to assist.  Most anyone can be taught to jump into a rescue ball,
tho...

Other things for the list:

Sufficient cold light sticks to illuminate the bridge, engineering, and
sick bay (if installed) for an extended period of time (say 96 hours)

Filter masks, respirators, and combo mask for each member of the crew.
Filters made available for each High or Mid passenger.

One (1) Survival Still

One (1) Atmosphere Tester

Goggles (1 per crewmember)

Survival Kit (1 per 4 passenger berths as per CSC)

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:23:43 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Challenge 75

Colin Hutchinson writes: 

>Can anyone help me?  I am looking for the errata for FF&S for TNE (1st
>printinting) which appeared in Challenge 75.  I have misplaced my copy and
>now have all the later, but not the first errata.

   I'll see what I can do.  This should be on a Net site somewhere, but
if not I can send you photocopies.  E-mail me direct with your address,
etc.

>  A bit of a problem.
>Secondly, why aren't the space missiles listed (in the back of FF&S) as
>having a volume?  Any help would be appreciated

   For space missiles, volume equals mass.  7 tonnes, 7 m3 each.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:25:13 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Kill ff&s2

Kenji Houston writes: 

>Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't carry
>it. IMO Traveller should never have gone gear head. Traveller 1 gave the
>referee and players the basics. The referee had the flexibility to run
>the campaign. And players weren't bogged down by complicated rules.

   So not having a rule to determine what would happen if a
tank...oops!  Sorry, tanks weren't covered in the basic manuals.  OK, if
an ATV shot at a scout ship or any of a hundred of things not covered by
the basic rule books represents flexiability.  Hmmm...the absence of
rules as flexibility; now I know where people get the idea that design
flaws are really features.

   Nothing in the rules books for MegaTraveller, TNE, or MMTraveller
says that you have to use any of the design rules to design anything. 
The rules are merely there to accomodate those that do.

>Regarding starships; Starships are not vehicles! A 10 cubic meter power
>plant will take 10 cubic meters in a vehicle. Whereas the same power
>plant would take 14 cubic meters or one displacement ton in starship.
>Why, a vehicle is serviced from the outside, a starship from the inside.

   An interesting concept, except that starships are nothing more than
really big vehicles, and all really big vehicles have enough internal
volume to spare to allow for access to engines without having to exit
the vehicle.  An M-1A1 (or LeClerc, etc.) tank (clearly a vehicle) could
be designed so that the crew could get access to the engine
compartment.  Designers don't do this as a practical matter because of
safety considerations (smoke from burning engines has been determined to
be hazardous to your health).

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:07:12 -0600
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Re: (Marc) Milieu 0 Campaign (Review)

At 05:17 AM 9/26/97 -0400, Marc wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-25 22:22:34 EDT, you write:
>
><< 
> How about it Marc?  Will you take care of your customers who rushed out
> and bought first printings of FS and M0?
> 
>  >>
>Sure. Why not post them here on the list?
>
>Marc

Thanks Marc! I fully intend to buy M:0 Campaign (being a completist), but it
will be nice having the 30 odd pages of new material handy. I appreciate
your attitude towards those of us who bought the original products and this
gives me hope for the continued health and future of Traveller.

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:45:43 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:47:20 +0200 (METDST)
> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
> >You also could have a ship posing a merchant until the patrol pulls up and 
> >then launching a suprise attack 

> You're forgetting the most crucial difference between a navy ship and a
> pirate/corsair: The navy is paid to fight, the pirate only fights to get
> paid. In other words, pirates don't like fair fights... or any fight that
> may impose repair bills greater than the potential gain.

Which is why they attack by suprise.  I would say that if you have
two ships of equal ability one pulls up close and gets a suprise 
attack in, it's not a fair fight.

> >(which is why you need to have multiple ships of decent size).  
> 
> Which is what you would have. You appear to have completely ignored my
> financial arguments, ie. how many assets a world pays for _anyway_.  I'm
> not talking about ships employed by a merchant who can't use more to
> defend with than he gains by defending it. I'm talking about government 
> who has the ships in the first place and may as well get some use out of
> them. 

Yeah, the problem is that you are talking about dispersing them through
out the Spinward Marches, which we have aleady established negates their
military value.

> >However, the main question is, is it worth the fuel. There is an optimum 
> >place to jump from for each planet, and, if you have carefulling arranged 
> >to have your velocity vector favorably alligned as you come out of jump, 
> >having to stop and be inspected is also a waste of fuel. Given how small 
> >the actual loses due to priracy are, I'm not sure it would be seen as 
> >worth it.
> 
> Right, and I suppose no merchant would ever bother with insurance, because
> statistically insurance is always more expensive than the event it insures
> against. Losing a few credits worth of fuel is peanuts to the potential
> losses. The time lost is a lot more expensive and even that is not very
> much compared to the potential loss. 

Well, the price of insurance drops to reflect the low probability of 
piracy.  Having to waste fuel and time on every jump doesn't.   

> Plus, it's not like the merchants
> would have any choice if the government demanded it.

Why would the government demand it if trade didn't want it.  It's not
 like military ships have problems with piracy.

> >It depends.  If one in 10,000 ships looses a cargo to piracy then it may 
> >not be.

> It is the exact same problem as insurance. If only one house in 10,000
> ever burns down, why bother with fire insurance? The answer is that it
> is really ruins your life if you happen to be no.

The answer is also that the cost of insurance reflect the odds of the
disaster you are insuring against.  If the odds of you loosing a million
dollars is only one in a million, then insurance can be offered for a 
few dollars.  This is why that flight insurance at the airports is so
cheap.

> >Sure, I agree that Piracy around Regina won't happen.  But when you start 
> >talking about doing this on all those other worlds in situations where you 
> >do have to take away from planetary defenses, it's another story.
> 
> It would be another story if you had to detatch, say, 10% of your planetary
> defenses to do this on other worlds. But you don't. We're talking about a
> fraction of 1/1000th of you planetary defense. Makes a difference, don't 
> you think?

I don't think it taks 1/1000th of your panetary defenses, as I have
stated
elsewhere.

> >So you think that piracy might occur around a Gas Giant?

> No, not really. Most Gas Giants won't be used for refuelling anyway. Those
> that are will have an area patrolled by a few patrol ships (those that don't
> have a refuelling station selling refined fuel orbiting the Gas Giant; it
> won't take much regular traffice before such a station is economically
> viable). And Gas Giants are so big that even for completely unguarded Gas
> Giants the chance of a pirate lurking just where you decide to skim is
> quite remote.

Well, it will be.  Even the fuel you purchase from the star port comes
from
the gas giant, someone else just gets it.  (Ignoring the question of
wether
everyone would use gas giants or buy from the star port).  Also, the
pirate
doesn't need to be lurking in the exact spot.  Just like any other
system,
he can spot you on the way in or out.

> >They don't like a lot of things.  They also don't like smuggling,
> >but they don't dislike it so bad as to have 10 people search
> >every ship after every jump from top to bottom.
> 
> It's a question of degree. Customs officials don't get all that upset about
> the odd smuggled bottle, so they only spot-check for smugglers. Air-port
> security really detest hijackings, so they closely scrutinize every single
> passenger. The kind of dislike a government has for pirates are of the
> second kind.

I don't agree.  You have used the most trivial kind of smuggling to
characterize
all kinds (which can include prohibited weapons, nasty drugs,
biologicals for 
terroists, etc.).  Yes, air-port make an effort to stop hijackings that
is
probably out of line with the threat (you would probably save more lives
spending 1/2 the money on stopping traffic accidents).  If you want to 
suppose the Imperium has a similar view of piracy, that is OK.  But that
is 
simply a another spin on the problem, not reasoning that invalidates an 
Imperium  with piracy.

> If you reply, please do address the question of how many assets would be
> needed to curb piracy and how many assets are available.

I did.  I've pointed out that you will need a couple of dozen for each
world
and will need to protect any world in a system that supports trade
(which
includes the main world, the gas giants, and all other worlds with other
populations, mining, etc. on them).  Then you need to do this in every 
system in the Imperium.  You also need those patrols big enough to stop 
the pirates from doing simple things like ganging up into groups of two
or three and/or attacking by suprise (ie you need a a force that can
deal 
with any worst case senario, which is the way it usually works.)

You have given reasons why you don't agree with these (like you vision
of legally required departure arrival points) and I have told you why
I don't think it would necessarily work this way.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:39:24 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Active/Passive Debate

Andy Lilly writees

>Presumably at some point this has been discussed to death on the gdw-beta
>list or somesuch, i.e. do the FF&S2 rules (combined with current sensor
>rules) clearly show that passives are better than actives?

The passive sensor rules in FFS2 are based on many hours of painstaking
sensor modelling (incorporating realistic optics and detector design 
(for TL-8), background models with three components (thermal emission from
optics, scattered light from zodiacal dust, thermal emission from 
zodiacal dust) and signature models with three componments (reflected
sunlight, IR emission from hot radiators, IR emission from warm hull) and
reasonable technological extrapolation.)

I could do this isince I'm an IR/visible astronomer.  

The active sensor rules in FFS2 were basically Made Up, due to lack of time
and lack of expertise. The scaling laws (range goes as (size)^2 * (power^2))
were right, but the base size was made up. I tweaked it to make active
sensors moderately competetive with passive sensors - generally the range
will be a point less under "normal" conditions, but active sensors are
still useful for hunting dark, powered-down targets. I *think* this is an
overestimate, but I'd love to see someone do some "real" TL-8 numbers. 
So, FFS2 does show that passives are (slightly) better than actives but
not overwhelmingly. I'm pretty sure I overstated how useful active sensors
are for precise fire control - but without good estimates of how well
tricks like aperture synthesis will work this is hard to quantify.


One important niche in which actives do very well in the current rules is
LIDAR; it can be hard to fit a passive array big enough to do good fire control
on small dark targets into a small ship, but you  can fit plenty of good
LIDAR systems.

Overall I'm fairly proud of the sensor rules...I think they're worth 
taking a look at.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:41:17 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: new weapon

Jory M. Earl wrote:
> 
> I was wondering, did they ever develop a weapon that would perform the
> same effect on matter as a "mis-jump" does on a starship?  Granted this
> would be an extremly high tech item.
> 
> What are everyone's thoughts on a weapon of this nature?

Megatraveller had the jump projector weapon system. 

This somehow reminded me of an old MT campaign. I was helping one of the
players roll up a character and he kept rolling Heavy Weapons. My friend,
mildly stoned at the time, kept writing it as Heay Weapons (omitting the V).
This lead to an unofficial motto for our group: (done in a tone of voice
that indicates extreme pleasure upon discovery) He-e-e-ey! Weapons!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:26:43 -0400
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pbrenton@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Challenge 75

>Can anyone help me?  I am looking for the errata for FF&S for TNE (1st
>printinting) which appeared in Challenge 75.  I have misplaced my copy and
>now have all the later, but not the first errata.  A bit of a problem.
>Secondly, why aren't the space missiles listed (in the back of FF&S) as
>having a volume?  Any help would be appreciated
>
>                        Colin

Hmmm That's a toughie.  *Second* Printing errata is at either;

http://www.spirit.com.au/~jamesd/errata1.html

or

http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/archive/TNE/errata/ffs.errata.gdw.txt

Joe Heck's Archive, but he doesn't have the First edition errata.

I used a couple of (fairly thorough) methods and found no sign of the
original 1st edition errata.  All the errata I have found is dated Dec. 7,
1994 (A day which will live in..?) and specifically for the second edition.

I think I *have* Challenge 75.  Get back to me on Monday  in private email
if you haven't got ahold of the errata by then.  I'm sure we can work
something out.

Pete


Peter H. Brenton
MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center
(617) 253-3185
pbrenton@mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:55:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kill ff&s2

>Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't carry
>it. IMO Traveller should never have gone gear head. Traveller 1 gave the
>referee and players the basics. The referee had the flexibility to run
>the campaign. And players weren't bogged down by complicated rules.

T4 has been a flop?  Perhaps it has been.  There are three major RPG sellers
in my area.  Of these three two carry the T4 line.  Of those two, I go to one
consistently because of its location.  It continues to carry new Traveller
stuff.  As a result, I buy new Traveller stuff there.  Apparently, due to
decreasing stock, I'm not the only one who's buying the stuff.

The one major gaming place that doesn't carry T4 only carries AD&D, White
Wolf stuff, Heavy Gear, and Deadlands with limited wall space.  Obviously
they carry only the major sellers (around 65% of their RPG shelf space is
devoted to the White Wolf stuff).

So, at least here in Philadelphia, its not quite "Most stores won't carry
it".

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:53:11 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: non-human obscure races

Chris Griffen wrote:
> 
> Erwin Fritz wrote:
> 
> >One of my players is interested in playing a non-human character.
> >He's asked about three races, of which I have very little info.
> >Does anyone know about the following:
> 
> All below excerpted from various online library data.
> 

Many thanks! That's a big help. I did look in a few online libraries
but couldn't find this stuff. Which ones did you use?

Erwin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Sometimes Ya' gotta draw a line....

On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Paul Kestner wrote:

> raveller-digest wrote:
> >   <<<< snipity-do-da, snipity-day ...... >>>>
> > The thick black line at the bottom is the border <g>.
> > Not sure how they mark that in space....
> > 
> >  << more snip >>
> 
>   Silly sentient,  borders are marked in space the
> same way they are marked on a map,  with ink. (OK,
> sometimes blood.)    You jump a ship out to the 
> border site,  spray color pigments of your choice
> about into space,  and jump back to base.  You have
> just 'marked' one pixel in your border design.
>    Repeat as required by design detail,  and budget
> constraints permiting.
> 

I kinda liked what they did in the 5th Element - the stop light in space!

(And for the Vargr border, a looooong line of fire hydrants!  :)


douglas

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:24:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: T4 Rules

>I've enjoyed reading over these "Live Campaign" posts, and one thing has
>intrigued me.  
>There are a heck of a lot more people out there using T4 rules than the
>pulse of he TML has shown.

Well, I think that in any situation like this, the detractors will always be
screaming louder than the people who like the game and use it.  Especially
when the tone of the mailing list often seems so damned venomous towards T4,
which is ashame.

I recently purchased the T4 rules and was actually pretty impressed.  I like
the simplicity and elegance of most of it.  I have my problems with the
percentages and odds for task resolution, but T4.1 seems to fill that hole.
 I expected from the way everyone was carrying on that the T4 rules would be
rife with errata and too flawed to use.

Well, it wasn't the case.

FFS2 came out in some parts of the country before here due to the UPS strike.
 I read the reviews of it before I bought it.  The reviews were pretty mixed.
 I went ahead and got it anyway and had no _major_ problems with the book.
 I'm happy to have bought the book.

Before I got involved with this list I purchased the Milieu 0 sourcebook.  I
got on the list and people were saying that it is unusable because it is so
flawed.  I use it just fine.  Granted, the sector map and data is a little
screwed, but other than that the book is, IMHO excellent.

I'm starting a campaign this Monday starting in 1105 in the upper corner of
the Daibei sector.  The best way to describe the tone is "_The Usual
Suspects_ meets Jabba the Hutt".  For this game I will be using T4/T4.1
rules.  There'll probably be bumps in the road.  Starship combat is going to
be one of them I'm sure.  However, when all is said and done, I like T4/T4.1.
 I like the fact that Marc Miller is so accessible and agreeable and includes
his players in the design process.  I like the fact that the folks involved
in designing the technical architecture are right there if you have a
question.

So, I don't know really.  Whatever.  I forget where I was going with this
message.  I just know, however, the negativity around here gets way too high
sometimes.

Semo

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1881
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Friday, September 26 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1882



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Starport authority checklist
Re: Memories
TNE Rules
Pirates
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: M0 and FS
Me Stupid!
Anti-Piracy/Hijacking
Campaign Plot I'm toying with (longish)
Re: ATTN THUDDD VOTERS!!
Re: A gearhead/techie proposal
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: Choice
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:22:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: RE: Starport authority checklist

Some quick thoughts:

<<1) Proper computer software.  I'm using he CT computer rules with the
RPSCS.  It works like a charm, and is fun as hell.>> And no illegal software.


<2) Vac Suits:

7 Vac Suits--one for each crew member;  location is player designated
10 Emergency Vac Suits--one for each passenger;  location in staterooms
9 Emergency Vac Suits--one for each low berth passenger;  location in
low berth room
3 Emergency Vac Suits--one for each airlock;  location in each airlock
4 Emergency Vac Suits--one for each major hallway;  location in each
major hallway>
Drop the emergency Vacc Suits for the passengers. Go with Rescue balls, they
require less training and would be easier for non-trained passengers to use.
They also pose less of a security risk for the crew.
In any case the low berth passengers don't need Vacc Suits, though Rescue
 Balls have a small chance of being used.
I'd also have a tendency for Rescue balls in the hallways too.
I'd require at least one-two crew (depending on crew size and Tech Level) to
be in a suit at while on duty.



<<Launch
1 Emergency Vac Suit--in airlock
1 Emergency Vac Suit--under pilot's chair
13 Emergency Vac Suits--for maximum passenger capacity>> Again I'd have the
tendency to want to replace most of the passenger suits with some Rescue
balls and maybe something like Hazard-10 suits maybe (or an adaption of).




<<3) PLSS
Life support systems for each vac suit>> Less Vacc Suits Less PLSS units as
such maybe.




<<4) Secondary, emergency survival item. This can be a survival bubble or
rescue ball or some such other device.  It's for the last ditch attempt.>>
 See above.



<5) Small, one time use, Med kits

Ship
3 med kits--one in each airlock
13 med kits--one in each stateroom
4 med kits--one in each major hallway
1 med kit--bridge
1 med kit--lounge
1 med kit--galley
3 med kits--low berth room
1 med kit--engineering
2 med kits--cargo deck

Launch
1 med kit--airlock
1 med kit--for passengers

Total med kits:  31>> Too many. I'd go for a large one in the launch, one on
the bridge, one in engineering. Once again it's probably something you don't
want passengers to get ahold of, because they won't necessarily know how to
use them and because of security problems.



<6) Tools 1 set of Mechanical Tools 1 set of Electronic Tools> I'd double or
triple that, a set in engineering, one in the launch and probably an
electronic one on the bridge.

I'd aid hostile environment kits, 7 (one for each 4 people, standard Imperial
requirement), located on the launch with the weapons stowed seperately (well
the original included a shotgun and some ammo).

A well equipped vessel (read PC vessel or MegaCorp liner)would probably have
the following additional (numbers depend on size, but):

Emergency radio beacon
Survival Still
Atmosphere tester
14 backpacks
Entry Cutter
Flare gun and Flares
Flashlights (or glowrods aka lightsticks)
Inertial locator
Iris valve opener
Machete
Laser cutter
Portable airlock
Nightglasses
Desert Survival kits (same number as survival kits)
Some sort of power plant, small and relatively light, preferable able to
operate on water or muscle power or both

Bryan Borich

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:40:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Memories

Quoth Douglas:
> Wow!  'A Canticle for Leibowitz', there's a book I haven't thought of for
> a long, long time!  An excellent work for those of you who are looking for
> 'Long Night' type stories!

There's a (posthumous?) sequel just out, by Miller and Terry Bisson,
called something like "Saint Leibowitz and the Horse-Mother."  I haven't
read it yet, but got the review from one of the Amazon.com free mailing
lists (the "editor's choice" stuff).

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 97 18:37:38 -0400
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: TNE Rules

Robert Ringrose wrote:
>I'd be curious what mods to TNE you use.  I'll be starting a TNE game in a few
>months, and while I know my preferred patches for D&D, I really haven't played
>Traveller enough to know what needs fixing.

One of the more popular is to use d10 for damage dice instead of d6.
Many people complain that combat isn't lethal enough, with d10 it is
fairly deadly.  Also make sure to use the quick kill rule.  (If NPCs
take more damage to the head or chest than their con from one hit, they
are dead, PCs take double damage instead.  Personally I make it double
damage for everyone)

Franklin Cain has sent a few house rules to the TNE-RCES list they are
on my web pages in the GAIL section.

http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/bard/bardgail.html


Lewis Roberts
- ---------------------------------------------------------------    
Q:Why did the fish cross the ocean?                    
A:To get to the other tide.  
 
lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 97 18:33:13 -0400
From: Lewis Roberts <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>
Subject: Pirates

Andy wrote:
>Please don't get me wrong - I think piracy is a rarity by CT days (try
>telling that to the Vargr...)

I only see three time periods in Imperial history when Pirates are
really active. When I say Pirates, I mean guys in spaceships who go
around stealing, plundering, looting and pillaging from other people,
they don't just steal ships, they attack planets, space stations and
anything else they feel like.

Three Periods:
1) During the long night, after civilization has collapsed. Ships from
worlds which haven't lost star flight can raid other planets. This can
be organized, or criminal elements from these planets.  The Pirates
will also prey on the few ships that survive, although those ships will
probably be well armed 

2) During the Rebellion. When war broke out, much of the force used to
prevent piracy was destroyed.  Many of the pirates won't be guys in a
hopped up Free Trader, but guys in a 50,000 ton cruiser, which decided
to desert.  Also as the war waged on, many warships would be running
short of supplies and would have to "acquire" supplies from civilians,
either their civilians or the other side's civilians.  Some of the
nicer commanders would give out chits redeamable for money after the
war was over, (Realistically these are only valuable if that side won
the war)  others would just take things.  
Hard Times give details on several corsair bands, and also gives more
details about different types of pirates ie Rippers, Corsairs, Vikings and Pirates.

3) During the Collapse. These pirates will be pretty much like the
pirates of the Long Night. I guess you can also have Vampire ships
coming around and stealing humans for slaves to run their ships also. 
The Guild is a organization of Pirates, slavers and normal merchants.  

 
Lewis Roberts
- ---------------------------------------------------------------    
Q:Why did the fish cross the ocean?                    
A:To get to the other tide.  
 
lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:38:35 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

At 09:10 AM 9/26/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Which brings up a point ... just why do grav tanks look like normal tanks
>anyway? [I mean in the illustrations, of course.] Look at the cover of
>FF&S, with those Trepida (sp?) grav tanks. Kewl looking, sure, but so are a
>lot of mecha. I have a hard time believing that a slab with a big turret on
>top is the best configuration for an airborne vehicle.

From countless sessions at the wargaming table, I have come to the
conclusion that grav tanks will spend most of their lives within a meter or
two of the ground.  Any higher, and they become scrap metal.  While palying
the Zhodani, I once lost the better part of an armored battalion crossing a
river.  The damned Impies had several powerful lasers set up to fire the
length of the river, and caught me in my sprint.  That, and severla other
lessons both applied and recieved, taught me that cover is still the
tankers' friend.

This makes a good case for the traditional big-turret design.  The tank can
unmask and fire while keeping the crew and power-plant behind a wall of
dirt (very good armor) and out of sight.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:11:00 -0400
From: "John Watts" <jwatts@catt.com>
Subject: Re: M0 and FS

>>Sure.Why not post them here on the list?

>Huh? Do you mean all of us who have M0 and FS should make oursleves
>known?


<raising hand>  Guilty as charged here.  I bought them.

John



It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed.
My hands begin to shake.  The shakes are a warning.
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:27:57 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Me Stupid!

The hollow boom you just heard was a penny dropping.

What Marc meant was ''why not post the extra pages from the M0 Campaign on
the list' yes?

(I'm not safe to be let out - I completely misunderstood his post!)

Seriously, though, I'd love to see that 
(since I've got both M0 and FS and can't afford more supplements), 
and also I'll love IG forever for agreeing to this. 

A games company that actually cares about the players that buy their material?
I must be in an 'ideal world' field. Someone shoot me before I wake up!

Thanks so much, Marc. You're my hero!

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:30:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Anti-Piracy/Hijacking

Now that we have dug deeply in on the Piracy side, I'm curious to know how
some of the rest of you make it *difficult* for players to hijack/pirate
ships.

IMC (in my campaign), Ships documentation, regardless of where they are
purchased, are administered from the subsector capital.  All ship's
payments flow to the capital.  Once the owner has taken possession of
the ship, all records are forwarded to the capital, and the ship's
payment account is established.  If the ship is going to be operating out
of that subsector, arrangements have to be made to transfer title
information to the new subsector.  

When the ship is financed, two months advance payments will be deposited
in an account at the capital, and the actual payments are withdrawn from
that.  Payments can be recieved at any Class A, B, or C starport and are
then credited to that account, once they arrive at the capital.  The
ship-owner is responsible for insuring that he/she increases the amount
held in the account should travel times exceed 8 weeks.  If that account
ever overdraws - then repossession proceedings begin.  It is important to
note that, while the title may be transferred from S/S to S/S, the only
way to transfer the loan is by renegotiating it with a new bank.

Ship's Weaponry are administered at the S/S level, but are authorized at
the sector level.  Civilian Lasers and Missiles are mostly a rubber-stamp
item.  As long as the purchaser-of-record does not have a record of
violence, has ship's papers, and will sign a end-use statement there is no
problem.  The necessary permits must be carried by the ship, and are
copied to the ship's record held at the SubSector Capital and copied to
the Sector Capital as well.  

Military-class weapons require a background check, yearly inspections by
the Navy (done during the overhaul, gun 'camera' records are inspected at
that point) and are only authorized to be used in specific subsectors as
itemized in the permits.  Copies of these permits are held at the Sector
Capital and each affected subsector capital.  Ship Transponder IDs for
MilWeap-authorized ships are also included in the classified military
library data installed in Imperial Warships.

Nuclear and BioWar items are not authorized for civilian or para-military
units.  Lethal Chemical munitions require specific authorization.
Non-lethal chemical munitions (specifically warheads and artillery shells)
are difficult (read expensive) to obtain except from military
clearinghouses.

'Salvage' recorders are secure instruments used to verify complience with
salvage laws.  (Mostly revolving around there _not_ being survivors before
you claim the hulk as salvage :). I have these installed by default on all
ships.  Basically, all communications, both audio and video, can be routed
through this device - each is recorded with a timestamp.  24-hours of
record, is required to satisfy the admiralty courts.  Data from these
recorders can be erased 'in toto' by anyone (so you can wipe the recorders
if the sensor anomoly turns out to be nothing), but the entire memory core
must be pulled and placed in a 'reader' for the data to be extracted
(reviewed).  Proprietary hardware and a 'formidible' computer roll is
required to alter the data on this system.  Each memory core can hold
about 72 hours of data.

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:34:31 -0600
From: "Christopher E. Webb" <cwebb@ctos.com>
Subject: Campaign Plot I'm toying with (longish)

I'm looking for some constructive comments about the following plot for a 
campaign I'm starting next week with some friends of mine in college.  I'm
using the TNE game system, but I'm using my own background & history.

Basic Premise:
It's about 2300AD, Earth is TL12/TL13, and mankind has colonized a few of the
nearer stars (using the Near Star List from GDW's 2300AD & a little program I
wrote to chart jump routes).  No sentient life has been found yet, but there are
a few worlds with native life.  A UN Scout Service vessel ran across a veritable
garden world orbiting Zeta Tucanae 2, a G2V about 23 ly from Earth.  The PCs are
the crew of a follow-up survey ship dispatched to conduct a general survey and
limited goal-oriented survey (a la World Tamer's Handbook).  This much
information the PCs have from the get-go.

A quick aside -- the plot from here on came up while my fiancee and I were having
breakfast at a local restaurant.  The players are involved in a rotating game
group, so there are three other RPGs being run, and we take turns each Friday
running a game.  The other games are sci-fi ish or modern-era (White Wolf,
Rifts, Cyberpunk), so I decided on Traveller over Mythus (easier for me to teach
them).  The group is largish (8 players + ref) and tends to be chaotic.

What I'm throwing at them:
Their starship, the first ship in a series of new, shiny TL13 survey vessels,
is parked in orbit over Zeta Tucanae 2.  After a basecamp facility is dropped
from orbit, the UNSS _Discovery_ gets hit by a largish rock.  Just moments
before
the impact, the survey specialist will see a grainy image of a crop circle on
his displays.  Before anyone can do much other than speculate, the rock hits
the _Discovery_.  The ensuing damage is substantial -- the engineering section
gets hit, frying the jump drive, knocking the fusion reactor off line, and
causing a fair-sized explosion as the LH2 tanks catastrophically rupture and
lose their contents to the engineering section and space.  To add insult to
injury, the impact ruptures some interior bulkheads, causing the atmosphere to
leak into space.  The _Discovery_ is tumbling and blacked out.
 Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but the ship's boat was wrenched from its
grapple by (hand waving reasoning inserted here).  Fortunately, there is a life
boat.  Unfortunately, the life boat's automated orbit-to-surface program ends
up rotating into the way of the tumbling _Discovery_, causing significant damage
(and forcing some one to manually fly it towards the surface).
When the crippled life boat finally smashes into ZT2 and the shaken and battered
crew tumble from the wreckage, I throw a few curves at them:

 1) The world is indeed inhabited by sentient beings.  The continent that the
PCs crashed on is occupied by a TL2/TL3 civilization of Greys (the aliens that
are so popular with UFO abductions, etc).  Their culture is similar to a
medieval Northern European civilization, but they are vegetarians (they use some
animals for labor (draft animals, herding animals)) with very advanced holistic
crop techniques.  The life boat skidded across a farmer's wheat field, destroying
a crop circle pattern the farmer had created.
 2) There are dragons.  Not the big, D&D things, but smaller dinosauroids that
range in size from medium birds to large dogs.  The first one they
encounter is a
herding dragon, which is used to herd the farmer's cattle.
 3) The crop circles are part of a Samhain-like fall celebration.  Various
farmer/artists create these patterns in local contests.
 4) Just to play up the medieval nods, since about a third of the players are
active in SCA and all of them have played D&D, there are orcs on the world,
too.
Not the dumb, generic things in other games, but a fully developed
civilization.

 A lot of the things I'm throwing in are intentionally cliche in other
games or
whatnot.  I'm throwing them together to see how it works out -- a lot of big,
alien humans crashing in some poor farmer's field.  The local farming
village is
named after the Artesian well in the center of town, which is surrounded by
some
bushes with beautiful flowers (yes, the village is named Rose Well).

 Further down the line (and less thoroughly developed idea-wise) are the 
following concepts:

1) The Greys are not native to ZT2.  They are, infact, the survivors of a race
of star farers whose big mothership crashed millenia ago.  After a
technological
slide to TL0ish, they slowly are re-learning, but they've lost their origins.
2) The Greys crashed on a southern continent that was heavily populated by the
(native) orcs, and were forced to flee north.
3) The only remnants of their history is preserved in the Grey religion, with
certain icons (like a flying saucer?, crop circle art, and memories of a
descent
from the heavens) preserved.
4) The Grey mothership will have sufficient materiel to repair the _Discovery_
and return the party to civilization, but it will take some time for the
PCs to
get this far.
5) Most of the players tend to be very pro-technology.  Unfortunately, all of
the cool toys they are packing for this survey mission use batteries.  So far,
only one player has voiced the thought that the cool electrothermal chemical
guns and lasers are electrically powered and there may be instances where that
is bad (like when they run out of power and no rechargers are nearby).

Well, I think that more or less covers the ideas I have right now.  I admit
that
there are a lot of things I'm throwing in that are going to cause the
players to
groan.  I also (hope) that these ideas will merge together well enough for
it to
work.  None of the players (other than my fiancee) have the slightest clue
what
kind of curves I'm going to throw at them (yet).

I will probably put a lot of these ideas on a web page once I get my account
changed to include a web page.  If anyone has any questions or comments about
all of this, please respond.

Thanks,

Christopher Webb
cwebb@ctos.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 16:49:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: ATTN THUDDD VOTERS!!

> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:29:19 -0400 (EDT)
> From: John Macpherson <john35@wharton.upenn.edu>
> 
> 	Because of Craig's unfortunate hardware troubles I believe he has 
> posted the wrong version of my THUDDD entry to the list.  Please use the 
> version below when casting your ballots.  The important difference is that 
> it is about one-third the price.
[entry snipped]

Sorry 'bout that...I'll replace this on the web over the weekend.

Other contestants:  Please check your entries as well, especially if you
sent me more than one version.  I thought I had the latest and greatest
from everyone, but now I've been proved wrong, at least in one case.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:41:05 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: A gearhead/techie proposal

well a bunch of us were experimenting with ship sizes (heavily armored)
and had gotten up to the quadrillion-tonnage range when our Ref told us
anything larger was impossible due to the gravity it would generate.  If
this is wrong, let me know.  :)

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:57:31 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

What rules book are "Jump Projectors" in?  and do they have
"man-portable" versions?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:06:36 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

Joseph R. Dietrich writes:

>>   Think helicopter tactics...
>
>Which brings up a point ... just why do grav tanks look like normal tanks
>anyway? [I mean in the illustrations, of course.] Look at the cover of
>FF&S, with those Trepida (sp?) grav tanks. Kewl looking, sure, but so are a
>lot of mecha. I have a hard time believing that a slab with a big turret on
>top is the best configuration for an airborne vehicle.
>
>And its not just the Trepida -- look at 101 Vehicles by DGP, for example.

   The presumption is that vehicles like the Trepdia spend a lot of
their time very near the ground (flying up to hundreds of kilometers per
hour while they are at it), thus the standard tank configuration would
still have some validity.

   If you are looking for somethng more "aircraft-like", then you want
an attack speeder.  Using FF&S, I have designed a whole range of these
beasts from TL 12-16.  My assumption about the essential difference
between the two (aside from configuration) is that attack speeders would
be faster than their grav tank counterparts, have a somewhat thinner
armor skin, and would have missiles as their main armament with a rapid
fire plasma or fusion gun (the equivalent of a minigun) used for smaller
targets.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:06:44 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Choice

Robert Ringrose writes: 

>>>>> On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:55:27 -0400, hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale) said:
>Harold> True enough.  While I use the TNE game mechanics (with very slight
>Harold> mods), I am not above borrowing from other sources if they can be
>Harold> adapted easily to my game.
>
>I'd be curious what mods to TNE you use.  I'll be starting a TNE game in a few
>months, and while I know my preferred patches for D&D, I really haven't played
>Traveller enough to know what needs fixing.

Harold's TNE House Rule Fixes

1) Use D10 instead of D6 to resolve fire combat.  This seems to fix the
problem some people have with weapon lethality.

2) Melee combat is resolved in 1 second turns instead of 5.  This is
still experimental, but seems to have worked out quite well so far. 
Important thing is to keep pushing the player for his next action so
that he/she doesn't have too much time to think about it.

3) Additional rules covering "sniper shots".  These appeared in TTC #12.

4) Various mods to the trader rules because of the uniqueness of the
Terran Republic (these will appear in TTC #13).

5) The formula for calculating mass driver round weight has been altered
so that it produces rounds of less mass.  This fixes the problem of the
huge energy requirements placed on mass driver guns (which IMHO render
them inferior to CPR guns).

6) A limit on laser power of TL*50, which was first discussed on this list.

7) Additional entries in the vehicle design sequence that allow for
lighter, less bulky walker transmissions.

8) Parallel universes, time travel, and alternative timelines (these are
used *very* sparingly a la Star Trek).  The current campaign hasn't run
into any of these (yet).

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:57:22 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880

On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:32:06 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:00:34 -0700
>From: Eric Nolan <ericno@MICROSOFT.com>
>Subject: RE: Kill ff&s2
>
>>Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't
>carry
>>it.
>
>I've seen a number of people say this, but I don't know of any shops
>that refuse to carry T4 on the basis of quality.  Similarly people say
>that the Foss artwork is rubbish, yet the vast majority of people I've
>shown T4 to (and that's quite a few) have liked the artwork.

Well, I know of a whole chain that, when T4 came out, bought at least a box (a
dozen copies) of each title *per store* (sure, it's only three stores, and its
only in Oz, but its a trend) -- what do they buy now? Two copies for the Sydney
store -- perhaps only one for the others. The Sydney store gets one for display
(in the hope it will be sold reasonably quickly) and one for the *sucker* who
has a definite order for it. Net loss of sales? around 30. And this is the
biggest chain on the eastern seabord ... where more than 60% of all Ozzies live.
Worse, the competition I have checked out -- though I don't know the managers
there as well -- all have been following the same policy ... one for the "New
Products" shelf and one for the "Traveller" section elsewhere. The only
multi-copy titles are of the very early releases. Obviously they have been burnt
by lack of sales as well.

Why? Well, I had a word with the manager (this is my FLGS, and I've been buying
stuff there for over twenty years -- in fact, I've been buying stuff from them
since the early 70's when they were still a mail order operation working out of
the then owner's home) and he said that the quality of the product was a major
problem and that the buyers had very soon cottoned on to this and were staying
away in droves. When I told him the news of the GURPS Traveller license, he
basically said *great* and was sure that this would boost sales, whereas he was
equally sure that IG products would not, and were unlikely ever to pick up.

As for the artwork, well, it's always been somewhat difficult, because of teh
ridiculous way the world is split up into "US" and "Rest of the World" copyright
areas, to get US published books here -- so there has always been (until very
recently) a preponderance of British SF Books on the market. Now, I'be been
buying SF Books for about as long as I have Boardgames and RPGs (since 1970 and
1975, respectively), and I will *never* buy a UK pub over a US one -- the
artwork on the US version is *always* superior, even when mediocre. And why?
Well, mainly because for a long period of time Foss "artwork" dominated the
covers of UK SF paperbacks -- and Foss, IMNSHO, couldn't draw his way out of a
wet paper bag with a map and a compass.

As for his alleged artwork on T4 products, I have bought the ones I have bought
*DESPITE* his alleged artwork, *NOT* because of it.

OK, I'm only one person. However, the gaming club I belong to (and have since
around 1978) has a considerable number of Traveller GMs and Players -- and,
guess what, all of the GMs (5-6) do *NOT* like Foss covers. All of them find
Foss covers to be a turn-off to a greater or lesser degree. Even the manager of
the FLGS is less than impressed with them -- mainly because they have no obvious
connection to the contents -- important when such a piss poor product is
attempting to gather sales by prompting people to pick it up off the shelf.

>Extrapolating your personal experience of perhaps only two or three
>shops to the entire market is something people do all the time.  It
>doesn't make it valid.  The only people who really know how T4 is
>selling are IG.

But I would suggest that the above reports are a worrying sign! And, after all,
no-one has written in and said ... "Hey, that's wrong! *My* FLGS has expanded
its order for Traveller and is giving it *greater* shelf display ... and it
never reaches the 'Bargain Bin'." I agree that anecdotal evidence should be
treated with caution, but the very fact that there seems to be no such evidence
of *good* sales is a worry.

As for the people who know whether T4 is selling. Well, I think we can safely
say that it is *not* because, as we all know, IG seems to have worsening
cash-flow problems rather than improving ones. It is a dying company -- and
deservedly so -- because the backers have obviously not put enough initial
capitalisation into it. Whatever initial good feelings there were for the new
Traveller have long since been lost because of abortions such as Starships.

On the other hand, Traveller *will* survive -- but only as GURPS Traveller in
the short to medium term. For T5 -- and, hopefully, a company with backers who
actually *have a clue*, we'll have to wait for IG to go under ... and how long
is that going to be in the face of competent opposition (in the form of
GURPSTrav).

As I've said before, PE and TLWH are the last IG products I will buy. IG has
lost me as a customer and is unlikely to ever pick me up again -- and that's
pretty much the case for all the GMs in the group I belong to ... for example,
none of them have purchased FF&S2 (and all -- even me, and I loathed it -- have
FF&S) and won't, because of the unusable nature of the product with the stuffed
equation layout. And its pretty much the same attitude for all the rest.

Nope. The sooner IG dies -- or their backers get a clue -- the better.

<Flame retardant underwear *on*>

Phil

- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1882
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 27 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1883



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Port Authority Checklist
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: The Merchant's Viewpoint on Piracy?
Re: Jumpspace
Re: Jump space
Re: Book of BITS
Marc
Re: Port Authority Checklist
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Armour value question...
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: OT: Angle and Distance, Cartesian Coords.
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Positive Note
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880
By the pricking of my thumbs...
Re: Port Authority Checklist
Re: A gearhead/techie proposal
Re: TNE Rules
re:World Builder's Handbook - program?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:56:44 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> I haven't got too many replies on this, and I'm starting to settle on
> the original list I posted--so, you already have that.
>
> Kenneth.

Kenneth,

I wrote a rather lenthy reply to this yesterday, went to post it and my
computer locked up! Unfortunately (for me) I've been reduced to using a retired
386 since frying the mother board in my pentium and it has Quirks. Any way here
I go for the second time. Most of these are just thoughts, you'll have to
determine amounts , etc, according to your ship type and size...

On both the launch and the main ship, these should be stored near exits:

Survival Packs Containing:
Flares
Flare Gun
Visual beacon
Radio beacon
Survival rations (for at least a couple of days)
compass and/or inertial locator
Short or Long range communicator
Thermal blanket (you know the reflective kind)
Water filter/purifier (or pills, can remember the name)
Powercell/Solar heater, cooking unit
Tent
Weapon (something like the ar7 survival rifle that breaks down into a plastic
stock that floats)
Survival knife (large with fish hooks, string matchs, etc in the handle...
check out a camping catalog)
Lighter (can be something hightech but matchs will work as well)

Not part of the pack but also stored near exits:
Infaltable raft, probably with cover and visual/radio beacon attached
I usuall add medium range communicators in my ships lockers
Rope (always a GOOD thing to have around)

Other items inboard:
Gas or laser cutting torch (had a player once that modified a laser cutter into
a weapon during a hi-jack ;)
Come-alongs or chain falls (incase the ag movers fail just when that BIG part
needs to be moved)
Hull patches of various sizes, sticky on one side, located at various brightly
colored storage points around the outer hull (one note here, I tend to try and
place corridors along the outer hull on military ships, makes it easier for the
damage repair folks, but each room along the hull should have a locker
containing patches)
Some type of epoxy spray to seal larger breaches, located with the patches
Emergency lamps (battle lamps), located at easy to find locations.
Each passenger state room should contain one of the escape ballons you
mentioned before
EVA mobility unit, for outside repairs etc.

Well, that's it for now. Will add to it if I think of more.
Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:11:03 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

Mark writes:

>If battledress could be used in vacuum in lieu of a vaccsuit it had 
>better be waterproof.  Let the poor bloody infantry walk under, or use 
>gravbelts to hop the river.

   And when the infantry walk into the river, and the current carries
them away, who writes the letters to their families?  A solution in some
cases perhaps, but not always.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:12:15 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: The Merchant's Viewpoint on Piracy?

Andy Lilly wrote:

> Picking one of the pirate discussion quoters pretty much at random (and
> still apologising for being a few days behind everyone else):

<snipped>

> 3. A lot of pirates use 1 & 2 and rather than actually bothering many ships,
> live off the protection racket, which is probably cheaper to the merchants
> than insuring their ships against the pirates?
>
> It might sound a bit silly at first, but if you look at the real world,
> things like (3) above tend to happen quite a bit...
>
> Andy :-)

I tend to agree with this. By the way I haven't been following this thread but
has anyon mentioned the very real, very active, Asian piracy. I saw a show in
the Learning Channel about this. They protrayed them as using very small craft
to board tankers and freighters, most of which showed up later with false papers
and new names. Others passed themselves off as "boat people", and got aboard
that way.

I wish I could remember more of the details. Anyway these may not be real
relavant except to point out that whenever there's money to be made somebody,
somewhere will find a way!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:27:12 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Jumpspace

MJ Dougherty wrote:

<Snip of a good plot>

> The pilot was a borderline psionic, and managed to fight the entity. But it
> wouldn't let her kill herself so she made lewis do it.
>
> But if he's shot the machine instead.....
>
> Isn't Jspace fun!
>
> Martin.

These last few days of story telling have been great, the knid of stuff I like
to read. For one I just enoy the heck out of hearing how other Ref's torment
their players. But also, I've picked up more adventure ideas in the last few
days than in the last few months!

(a sick, twisted light begins to glow behind my eyes)
GIM'ME MORE! MORE! I WANT IT ALL! (slap... thanks I needed that!)

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:48:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump space

In mail you write:

> Cost of travel - with travel times reduced to less than 24 hours
> (subjective time) it is reasonable to compare jump travel to modern
> jet aircraft travel ...  you can cram a lot of people in and reduce
> the cost of passage to (say) Cr2000 per parsec.  Just imagine a jump
> "cruise", you spend a day travelling to the next port of call, where
> you get to visit the local area before your liner jumps to the next
> exciting port of call.  Some places are not very exciting, and you
> stop only to refuel and bring aboard fres fruit (or whatever).

I see a major problem here. Sure while on the tour you spend a couple
of weeks (14 days) visiting 14 systems. Sounds like a great way to
spend a two-week vacation, right?

But when you get back, you find out that you don't have a job, because
you've been gone for 14 *weeks* (a bit over 3 *months*). Or e;se you
had to use 3 months of vacation time for a vacation that only lasted
two weeks for you.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:52:23 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Book of BITS

Bob Sanders wrote:
> 
> Someone wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> but, I would also recommend all the BITS 101 Books (Travellers,
> rendezvous,Plots, Cargos)
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> Any idea on how I can order a copy of these books?

Yeah!  And post this to the list!

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:57:06 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Marc

Sanders wrote:
> > How about it Marc?  Will you take care of your customers who rushed out
> > and bought first printings of FS and M0?
> >
> >  >>
> >Sure. Why not post them here on the list?
> >
> >Marc
> 
> Thanks Marc! 


Marc, you've done it again.

With one swift move, like your post on the copying of out of date
material, you've made a HUGE number of people happy.

I sure an glad you are taking a more active role in the new creation of
Traveller.  It seemed like those others--the dream team, if you
will--was screwing it up for you.

Look at all of this excitement!

These people are acting like this because they feel they are being
treated RIGHT.

Kudos,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:02:53 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

Douglas wrote:

> Earlier you mentioned that there should be one vacc suit per
> passenger/crewmember plus some extras.
> 
> Instead, may I propose that there be one vacc suit per crew member plus 1
> mobile life support system (ie vacc suit, rescue ball, mobile low berth,
> etc...) for each passenger?  Many passengers will not be able to suit
> themselves and, in an emergency, there will not be time to wait for a crew
> member to assist.  Most anyone can be taught to jump into a rescue ball,
> tho...

I've got two emergency systems for everyone on this ship--a vacc suit
and a secondary system, like a rescue ball, for just that reason.


> Survival Kit (1 per 4 passenger berths as per CSC)

Excellent idea.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:24:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

In mail you write:

>>Don't count on them being different. Units of measurement persist for
>>*very* lomg times. The mile goes back more than 2000 years. Ditto for
>>the pound. I'm not sure about other measurements.
> Some do others don't mostly a matter of conveence.  The rod and chain 
> were used to lay out most of the steets in my state.  I was told once a 
> yard was the measure of the king girth, could be a problem if he went on 
> a diet.

Actually, the yard is the length of a piece of string in the fingers of
one outstreched arm stretched to the tip of your nose. Just like a
cubit is the distance from your elbow to your fingertips. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:08:20 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Armour value question...

	Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?

	Thanks.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:35:48 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

In mail you write:

>    Why?  Because you present yourself as a clear target to every bad guy
> within weapons range.  While terrain would not be as much of an obstacle
> as it was in the past (you still have to get all those battledress
> equipped infantry to the other side of the river and battledress doesn't
> float), having lots of woods, hills, and similar features around to hide
> behind or in would be a good idea.

Battledress can just walk across the bottom. Of course, I've seen a few
riverbeds that show why this can be a *bad* idea (river flows over bare
rock, and there are some *deep* cracks). Still, I suspect that an
approach marching across the bottom, with engineer units bridging the
worst parts of the bottom, would be a workable tactic in some cases. It
certainly makes it hard to shoot at you as you are crossing. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:10:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: OT: Angle and Distance, Cartesian Coords.

In mail you write:

> I have an XYZ coord system (spatial coords).    X is right to left 
> on the plane, Y is depth on the plane and Z is height above/below 
> the plane.
>
> I want 0/360 degrees to be a gain on the Y, 90 degrees to be a gain 
> on the X and so forth, counter-clockwise.
>
> What is the proper math to take coords (XYZ) and find it on a 
> sphere, noted as heading, elevation and distance?  

I don't have the formulas handy, but the form of spherical co-ordinates
is basicly altitude, azimuth, and radius. Altitude is the angle between
the x-y plane and a line drawn from the point to the origin. Azimuth is
how far around from the x-axis the line is (ie azimuth is how far
clockwise from "north", altitude is how far above the horizon). And
radius is simply how far out from the origin the point is.

<later>

I can't find my book on astronomical calculations, which *might* have
something useful in it. <sigh>

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:50:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

In mail you write:

>>   Think helicopter tactics...
>
> Which brings up a point ... just why do grav tanks look like normal tanks
> anyway? [I mean in the illustrations, of course.] Look at the cover of
> FF&S, with those Trepida (sp?) grav tanks. Kewl looking, sure, but so are a
> lot of mecha. I have a hard time believing that a slab with a big turret on
> top is the best configuration for an airborne vehicle.

True enough. And while it's *possible* to drive a grav tank supersonic,
there's not much point to it. So that means that a decent *subsonic*
shape is probably best. 

I'd say an ellipsoid of some sort wou;d be best. Probably an oblate
spheroid, as that gives the most surface area when you set down (useful
if you don't want it sinking too deeply into the ground). 

So a grav tank would look a lot like a flying saucer with guns sticking
out. If it can rotate about the vertical axis fast enough, it doesn't
need a turret. And again, the oblate speroid shape helps, as it allows
you to rotate in flight without changing the effective "frontal"
surface area. 

Hmmmm... it just occurred to me that the "bottom" of an oblate spheroid
would work well as a heat shield for re-entry too! So you could deploy
the tanks from orbit during a landing. 

I *like* this idea!
- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:28:03 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Positive Note

SemoFetus@aol.com wrote:
  However, when all is said and done, I like T4/T4.1.


I've got to admit it.  I really like T4 too.  

I think there are a lot of reasons why T4 has gotten some bad press at
the start.  Some people don't accept new ideas and change very well. 
Some didn't like the task system probablilty problem you spoke of (I can
think of one person who had a REAL problem with the task system).  

And, I think that the pre-premier marketing for T4 got a lot of people's
hopes up--and they were dissappointed when they didn't receive the best,
most incredible game system EVER produced.

What we got was a good game system.  It's got it's problems, sure, but
just about every game system does.  

But, I'll tell you...I do know this...

I was using a House version of rules before T4 came along.  It was
basically the TNE rules system using the MT task system.

Ever since I started using T4, my games have gone from being good to
incredible.  It was the best move I could have made with my campaign and
my players.

It was a return to the simple game mechanics of CT, and it fit my play
style like a glove.

Before, everybody was having fun, but they'd leave the game and not
think about it again until we played next.

Today, I get at least one daily e-mail from one of my four players. 
I've got two players who have drawn pictures of things that happened in
the game.  I've got me and one other player writing short stories about
things that happen or character backstory events.

I'll tell you, you don't get that kinda devotion and creativity from
players who are just so-so about the game.  Work, wives, life gets in
the way.

It wasn't happening before.



Bottom line?

The T4 rules have improved my game by allowing us to focus more on the
story and having fun with the campaign rather than putting all that
energy into die rolling and fixing a House system that merged two out of
print editions.

I like a little more detail in my game, but as T4 grows, that detail is
there (and growing) if you want it.  There's new combat rules in the
EA.  We use'em.

The only big problem I have with T4 is the skills vs stats issue, and by
using my KBv2.0 system, that's not a problem anymore.

I'll say it again.  I really like T4.  I see good things coming out of
IG.  I'm taking a more relaxed posture about it all, and I can't wait to
see T4.1.

All of this improvement in my campaign (the ultimate proving ground for
good rules) cannot be a coincidence.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:48:40 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880

Phillip McGregor wrote:

> But I would suggest that the above reports are a worrying sign! And, after all,
> no-one has written in and said ... "Hey, that's wrong! *My* FLGS has expanded
> its order for Traveller and is giving it *greater* shelf display ... and it
> never reaches the 'Bargain Bin'." 

I've seen both sides of this in Houston.  My local store does the one or
two copy thing.  There's me and a couple of other "regulars" who buy
everything IG puts out.  After that, there' a few sparatic sales.

Then there's the biggest game store in Houston, who has just taking away
some of the huge area reserved for AD&D the last 3 or 4 years (two book
cases and two wall displays) by giving one of the wall displays over to
Traveller.

Maybe this is because there have been no new AD&D items since the WotC
buy-out and they need to fill that space.  But, the point is, out of all
the other games out there, they picked Traveller to fill it.

I know this can be read in several ways.  Maybe they are trying push
slagging Traveller sales, and maybe they have high hopes for it.

But, T4 is getting good exposure in this prominent location of this
large store--so at least some of the move is a good thing.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:04:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: By the pricking of my thumbs...

>As I've said before, PE and TLWH are the last IG products I will buy. IG has
>lost me as a customer and is unlikely to ever pick me up again -- and that's
>pretty much the case for all the GMs in the group I belong to ... for
example,
>none of them have purchased FF&S2 (and all -- even me, and I loathed it --
have
>FF&S) and won't, because of the unusable nature of the product with the
stuffed
>equation layout. And its pretty much the same attitude for all the rest.

Okay, here's something that really sticks in my craw, and has since FFS2 came
out...  The misprinted equations do not make the book unusable.  If they do,
I cannot understand why.  Yes, the misprinted equations are ugly.  Yes, the
misprinted equations are an eyesore.  But, really, how hard is it to replace:
<-> with an x or * in your head as you perform the equation?

C'mon, how difficult is it to do this?

If you're gearheaded/mathematically competent enough to use FFS2, then you
should be competent enough to change <-> to *.  Not that hard.  I use FFS2 on
a pretty regular basis.  I have designed 2 grav vehicles, several starships,
an assault rifle, a plasma rifle, and a laser carbine.  With the exception of
a few missing segments in tables FFS2 has been completely usable.

>On the other hand, Traveller *will* survive -- but only as GURPS Traveller in
>the short to medium term. For T5 -- and, hopefully, a company with backers who
>actually *have a clue*, we'll have to wait for IG to go under ... and how long
>is that going to be in the face of competent opposition (in the form of 
>GURPSTrav).

Yes, GURPS Traveller is going to come along and sweep us all off of our feet
and everything will be wonderful forever and ever and the sun will never set
on the 3rd Imperium.  GURPS Traveller taking over is great news for the
world.  *EXCEPT* for people like myself who don't care for GURPS.  I *like*
T4/T4.1.  I genuinely do.  I don't like the GURPS system.  This is a matter
of taste, I'll admit.  I hope when GTrav comes out it sells a gazillion
copies.  I'd love that.  I'll buy copies of the GURPS Traveller stuff (funny
how the announcement of one source book has been changed to a whole GTrav
_line_).

But, here go the facts:  When the time comes, and GTrav is released, there
will be venom and hissing and cursing:  
"How could they include the flugel-widgets?  Everyone knows they were stupid
and scientifically unrealistic!  And how could they leave out Vargr chew
toys?  Everyone knows that they're a cornerstone of Classic Traveller!  And
the new damage system sucks, you could never stand up to a plasma blast in
MegaTraveller!  And page 27 of Obscure-Canon-Source says that robot brains
can't have an intelligence of 8 or more, where do they get off?"

Yada yada yada.

I'll say this.  You're entitled to your opinions.  I agree with you on some.
 For example, I really don't care for Foss to much.  His paintings are way
out of scale to the Traveller universe.  He is technically competent, but the
ships are just too monolithic and ugly.  I don't know.  Whatever.


Semo
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

"I'm confused.  Ain't bucky-balls those chewy caramel candies that
Jolly-Poacher puts out?"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 02:03:39 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Port Authority Checklist

Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> They are getting insurance money, part of their subsidy agreement, and
> are trying to re-equip the ship.  As a GM, I'm trying to come up with a
> list of stuff that is mandatory for a starship to have.  The ship will
> have to undergo an inspection before she leaves dirtside by the port
> authority.
>
> Help me brainstorm here.  What are the essential items for a starship?
> What will be on the port authority's inspection list?
>

<Snip>

> Kenneth.

Kenneth,

It just struck me that the Port Authority will be inspecting the entire ship. not
just what was stolen and replaced. If you want to have a little fun, at you PC
Captain's expense, they will also be looking a t some or all of these things as well.

The ship's fire suppression system, and it's maintenance records,
The SHIP'S maintenance records
Expiration dates on food, survival rations, medicines, etc.
Fire and Smoke Alarm systems
Air Quality testing systems and the environmental equipment, for out of date filters
etc., along with maintenance records.
Emergency lighting, permanently fixed as well as portable.
Warning labels on chemicals (cleaners, etc.)
Emergency procedure signs and instructions in the passenger areas.
Communications equipment
Log books, Ship's papers, etc.
Any and all alarms will be tested.

Admittedly most of this is trivial in game terms, but think of the expression on
their faces when the Inspector asks to see the maintenance records on the sanitary
recycler! It is the perfect opportunity to see how fast they think on their feet.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:38:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: A gearhead/techie proposal

In mail you write:

> well a bunch of us were experimenting with ship sizes (heavily armored)
> and had gotten up to the quadrillion-tonnage range when our Ref told us
> anything larger was impossible due to the gravity it would generate.  If
> this is wrong, let me know.  :)

Let's see....

    6.673e-11 N m^2/kg^2 (7e-11) -- Newton's Gravitational Constant "G"
	5.974e24 kg	 (6e24)  -- Mass of Earth
	7.348e22 kg	 (7e22)  -- Mass of Moon
	1.989e30 kg	 (2e30)  -- Mass of Sun
	3.986e14 m^3/s^2 (4e14)  -- Gravitational constant times mass of Earth
	4.903e12 m^3/s^2 (5e12)  -- Gravitational constant times mass of Moon
	1.327e20 m^3/s^2 (13e19) -- Gravitational constant times mass of Sun

So first thing, we see that the mass of the moon (which you can easily
launch ships from) is 7e22 kg. A quadrillion is only 1e12. 

A=GM/r^2

A=6.673e-11*1e12/r^2
A=66.73/r^2

So assuming your quadrillion ton ship was only 10 meters in radius (20
m diam) we get an acceleration due to gravity of .6673 or 7/100ths of a
G! I don't think gravity would be a problem for launching things. 

The real problem is what the mass of the ship does to *itself* in the
way of stresses and strains.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 03:40:16 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: TNE Rules

Lewis Roberts writes:

>One of the more popular is to use d10 for damage dice instead of d6.
>Many people complain that combat isn't lethal enough, with d10 it is
fairly deadly.

   I use the D10 *only* for fire combat, since using D10 for fist fights
tends to make them a bit too short and bloody.

>  Also make sure to use the quick kill rule.  (If NPCs
>take more damage to the head or chest than their con from one hit, they
>are dead, PCs take double damage instead.  Personally I make it double
>damage for everyone)

   The Quick Kill rule in the TNE manual reads as follows:

   Quick Kill: Any shot which hits the chest or head may constitute a
killing shot.  Roll 1D20.  If the roll is less than or equal to the
*damage value* of the shot, the target is instantly killed except on the
roll of a 20 exactly.

   Which means if you hit somebody in the head or chest with a gauss
rifle that does 4D of damage, you would roll a D20 for quick kill and
any roll of 1-4 would result in instant death.

   A common variant to this is to multiply the damage value number by
two for all head shots (quadrupling it for an exceptional success head
shot) before rolling the D20.

   Thus, if that 4D gauss rifle hit the target in the head, the chances
for quick kill go from 4 in 20 to 8 in 20, and on an exceptional success
roll 16 in 20 (time to make funeral arrangements).

   My thoughts on PC mortality: I am not running a campaign of "The
A-Team RPG".  Use of bullets, in particular getting in the way of them
if they are flying at supersonic speeds, increase the odds dramatically
that you will have to roll a new character before the next gaming
session.  If you do not like this reality, play the engineer who is
always getting stuck back on the ship keeping the engine running.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:35:05 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:World Builder's Handbook - program?

Dave Golden wrote:

>At 12:19 am 09/25/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>You want a copy of Rob Prior's Metator, and a Mac to run it on. You can
>>download it from:

<snip>

>	I tried to download a Mac from the link, and couldn't. Besides, I'd be
>more interested in downloading a Dec Alpha--do you have a link for that?

;-)

Arghh! The "it" in the second clause refers to the same "it" as seen in the
first clause.
The UK and the USA - two countries separated by one language...

That depends on your credit card limits!! <g>

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 27 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1884



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

re:Book of BITS
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880
BITS Product Availability
Shipboard Safety Equipment
Traveller - dying or not?
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: Questions about Traveller
TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
Re: Campaign Plot I'm toying with (longish)
Re: Positive Note
Re: Protecting Jump Points

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:16:41 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:Book of BITS

Bob Sanders <bsanders@amghome.com> wrote:

>Someone wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>but, I would also recommend all the BITS 101 Books (Travellers,
>rendezvous,Plots, Cargos)
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Guilty as charged, m'lud.


>Any idea on how I can order a copy of these books?

Through Andy Lilly, who posted about this immediately before you.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:48:14 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880

Phil McGregor wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:32:06 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 06:00:34 -0700
>>From: Eric Nolan <ericno@MICROSOFT.com>
>>Subject: RE: Kill ff&s2
>>
>>>Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't
>>carry
>>>it.
>
>But I would suggest that the above reports are a worrying sign! And, after
>all,
>no-one has written in and said ... "Hey, that's wrong! *My* FLGS has expand=
ed
>its order for Traveller and is giving it *greater* shelf display ... and it
>never reaches the 'Bargain Bin'." I agree that anecdotal evidence should be
>treated with caution, but the very fact that there seems to be no such
>evidence
>of *good* sales is a worry.

My local games store has increased its Traveller shelf space, now two
sections 150-200mm deep,  and has a lot of supplements. Interestingly, the
rules are disappearing quickly, as are a few of the supplements like FFS2,
M0, CSC, PE... Starships and FS remain resolutely on the shelf.

>As I've said before, PE and TLWH are the last IG products I will buy. IG has
>lost me as a customer and is unlikely to ever pick me up again -- and that's
>pretty much the case for all the GMs in the group I belong to ... for example,
>none of them have purchased FF&S2 (and all -- even me, and I loathed it --
>have
>FF&S) and won't, because of the unusable nature of the product with the
>stuffed
>equation layout. And its pretty much the same attitude for all the rest.

I own FFS2, and am not particularly gearhead (I owned the previous FFS and
didn't use it). The equations are not a problem. The missing tables are
more of a problem.

>Nope. The sooner IG dies -- or their backers get a clue -- the better.

So are you saying that even if the IG material improves you are not going
to buy any new IG material? That's your call, but why not listen to the
reviews, or even look at the products in the store before you decide?

Anyway, this isn't intended as a flame, as I can understand why you feel
the way you do and felt that way myself after getting hold of starships
(worst =A315 UK I spent on an RPG supplement in the last 5 years).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost"=20

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 07:29:39 -0400
From: "Alan M. Nuss" <amnuss@earthlink.net>
Subject: BITS Product Availability

How can we in the United States order BITS products?

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:31:30 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Shipboard Safety Equipment

Firstly, I've crossposted this to the ISBA list, hope nobody minds.

Okay here's my take on what safety equipment the Bureau Of Starships Safety,
Health, and Transit Standards would require a starship to carry as a minimum.

1) Vacc suits: 3 per airlock (located in the airlock), 2 per driveroom
(located in the driveroom). Note that these are not 'normal' vacc suits,
rather these are specifically designed to be used by most humaniod races
within the Imperium. This results in them being somewhat bulky and
uncomfortable (-2 on all tasks). Most crew refer to them as "Baggies" and
will only use them in emergencies.

2) Rescue Balls: 2 per stateroom (located in the stateroom), 1 per low berth
(located with the low berth), 1 per acceleration couch (located underneigth
the couch), 1 per workstation (located at the station); plus others totalling
the maximum possible crew and passenger compliment (excluding low passengers)
located at easily accessable points throughout the vessel.

3) Imperial Standard Individual Survial Kits: 1 per airlock (located on the
hull exterior at the airlock), 1 per driveroom (located in the driveroom),
1 other (located on or by the bridge or pilot's workstation). Note that these
are in sealed compartments, and accessing them will trip audiable (very)
alarms throughout the vessel.

4) Paramedic kits: 1 per airlock (located at the airlock), 1 per 10 passengers
or crew (located at easily accessable points throughout the vessel), 1 per
driveroom (located in the driveroom), 1 per 10 low berths (located by the low
berths, 1 other (located at or by the bridge or pilot's workstation).

5) Hull patches: 1 per displacement ton (located in easily accessable points
near the exterior hull throughout the vessel). Note, as with the Survival
kits, these items are alarmed (you want to know if the hulls been breached!).

6) Emergency beacon: 1 (located at an easily accessable central point).

7) Handheld illumination devices: 1 per 2 passengers or crew (located at
easily accessable points throughout the vessel).

8) Electronic tools: 1 set per driveroom (located in the driveroom).

9) Mechanical tools: 1 set per airlock (located in the airlock), 1 set per
dirveroom (located in the driveroom)

10) Metalworking tools: 1 set (located in the main driveroom). If the vessel
has more than 4 driverooms then there must be 1 set per driveroom (located in
the driveroom).

11) Atmosphere testers: 1 per airlock (located in the airlock).

12) Radiation counters: 1 per airlock (located in the airlock), 1 per
driveroom (located in the driveroom).

NOTES: Since most accidents requiring an "abandon ship" will happen within
100 planetary diameters (and there is virtually no chance of survival
regardless of equipment anywhere else) no vacc suits are provided for
passengers. Rescue balls are provided instead, unlike vacc suits these can be
used by anyone regardless of training (vacc suits require at least basic
familiarisation).

Also, these are minimum standards only. Other more stringent standards will
apply in some cases (specific types of vessels, vessels engaged in specific
activities, and vessels in specific regions). Also, prudent captians will
ensure that their vessels are better equiped.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:10:02 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Traveller - dying or not?

I don't know what the state of T4 in the games shops is. My 'local' shop is
some distance away and last time I looked was full of AD&D and White Wolf
The Condescending Roleplaying Experience. 

I buy just about everything by mail order. Thus far that's the rules, PE,
SCS, EA, TLWH, 101 plots and Cargos, M0 and FS. And this at a time when I
don't have ANY spare cash! Of the six gamers in our group, two have done
likewise. I'm not sure about the others. 

That's pretty good, no?

And my mail order supplier frequently sells out all he's ordered on the T4
material.

I don't think Traveller sales are so bad. IG probably know, maybe someone
would care to comment?

As an aside - the storytelling has been fun, and surely anything that
sparks scenario ideas on the list is A Good Thing!

Let's see more.

And more Traveller product - with ot without Foss (I say without)!

But most importantly - look at what Marc's done for us recently. He didn't
have to do that (and might have made a few more sales of the M0 campaign if
he hadn't) - don't you think it's a rather poor show (very British. Sorry.)
when some of us respond by saying 'hey, IG is dying!' 

T4 is the best shot at a 'definitive' Traveller we'll ever see. The bad
bits are fixable and the good bits are great. Why, then, all the sniping?
There's never going to be a better Traveller (I suspect that if IG goes
then there'll be NO more Traveller.)

Can we try to be a little more supportive, please?
Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:27:40 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 05:24:03 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:48:40 +0000
>From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880
>
>Phillip McGregor wrote:
>
>> But I would suggest that the above reports are a worrying sign! And, after all,
>> no-one has written in and said ... "Hey, that's wrong! *My* FLGS has expanded
>> its order for Traveller and is giving it *greater* shelf display ... and it
>> never reaches the 'Bargain Bin'." 
>
>I've seen both sides of this in Houston.  My local store does the one or
>two copy thing.  There's me and a couple of other "regulars" who buy
>everything IG puts out.  After that, there' a few sparatic sales.

Not good for IG's survival.

>Then there's the biggest game store in Houston, who has just taking away
>some of the huge area reserved for AD&D the last 3 or 4 years (two book
>cases and two wall displays) by giving one of the wall displays over to
>Traveller.

Good, perhaps, as you note!

>Maybe this is because there have been no new AD&D items since the WotC
>buy-out and they need to fill that space.  But, the point is, out of all
>the other games out there, they picked Traveller to fill it.
>
>I know this can be read in several ways.  Maybe they are trying push
>slagging Traveller sales, and maybe they have high hopes for it.
>
>But, T4 is getting good exposure in this prominent location of this
>large store--so at least some of the move is a good thing.

If this works out, perhaps it is a good thing. Depending, as you say, on the
reason for it. I make no bones about not liking what IG have done to Traveller.
I actually like the game system (and have no problem with the 1/2 dice at all)
and the rest (tho I prefer the modified Character Creation system I did for it
in Dark Star #1 ... naturally enough ... over theirs) ... and TLWH and Gateway
are reasonably good adventures. PE is a great idea ... though I have some
problems with aspects (as everyone else seems to as well).

However, I am disgusted at the incompetence of the people at IG. Starships, for
a start. FF&S2 typesetting. PE typesetting. Gateway layout and typesetting. They
have to be the most unprofessional "professional" company in the business! And
that's why I'll be buying GURPSTrav and not a single IG product in future
*unless* they (and this seems incredibly unlikely) get their act together.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:50:40 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 05:24:03 -0400, you wrote:

>From: SemoFetus@aol.com
>Subject: By the pricking of my thumbs...
>
>>As I've said before, PE and TLWH are the last IG products I will buy. IG has
>>lost me as a customer and is unlikely to ever pick me up again -- and that's
>>pretty much the case for all the GMs in the group I belong to ... for
>example,
>>none of them have purchased FF&S2 (and all -- even me, and I loathed it --
>have
>>FF&S) and won't, because of the unusable nature of the product with the
>stuffed
>>equation layout. And its pretty much the same attitude for all the rest.
>
>Okay, here's something that really sticks in my craw, and has since FFS2 came
>out...  The misprinted equations do not make the book unusable.  If they do,
>I cannot understand why.  Yes, the misprinted equations are ugly.  Yes, the
>misprinted equations are an eyesore.  But, really, how hard is it to replace:
><-> with an x or * in your head as you perform the equation?
>
>C'mon, how difficult is it to do this?

Its got nothing to do with whether its difficult or not. What *is* important is
that the whole product shows a complete and total lack of competence of even the
most basic sort on the behalf of IG. Sorry, I won't buy ptoducts (knowingly)
with major typos in them.

Look, I bought printing #1 of Mtrav -- and I didn't bother to buy printing #2 or
the second edition or whatever. The complete cockup they made of what i had
meant that I was burnt enough, thank you very much. I never used the MTrav
system as a result ... I continued to use CTrav, but with the MTrav backghround.
I *could* have gone out and bought a "corrected" version of Mtrav, but why? I
had already spent A$60 or so to but the three garbage books I had, if GDW would
have swapped them for a complete reprinting with corrections for *free* I would
have swapped, but otherwise, no way ... I had better things to spend my 60 bucks
on thank you very much.

I have Milieu 0 and First Survey, to ... and I have no intention of buying the
hardback version, even if it does have extra materials, and for the same reason.
Basically, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me ... I bought
garbage once, and I have no intention of supporting the
incompetence/incompetents at IG by buying the supposedly new and improved
edition. Sure, if they want to do a swap and take my garbage copies and give me
a new hardcover for a nominal cost, say $10, then I would be interested ... but
no way will I actually buy the thing.

>>On the other hand, Traveller *will* survive -- but only as GURPS Traveller
>in
>>the short to medium term. For T5 -- and, hopefully, a company with backers
>who
>>actually *have a clue*, we'll have to wait for IG to go under ... and how
>long
>>is that going to be in the face of competent opposition (in the form of
>>GURPSTrav).
>
>Yes, GURPS Traveller is going to come along and sweep us all off of our feet
>and everything will be wonderful forever and ever and the sun will never set
>on the 3rd Imperium.  GURPS Traveller taking over is great news for the

No, it won't be all things to all people ... and I agree that there are a lot of
problems with GURPS ... the character creation system is completely
unTravellerlike and will need to be changed dramatically if it is to be any good
(and if it isn't changed in GURPSTrav, then I will do an alternate system in
DS#3, just as I did for the T4 system in DS#1). However, it *will* sell ... and
Traveller needs a track record so that whoever has the license can see that it
*is* a goer, and that IG have to be ditched *completely* and replaced with
someone who is a) halfway competent and b) capable of producing a quality
product (i.e. with the financial backing to do so ... not an evidently
undercapitalised crock like IG).


>world.  *EXCEPT* for people like myself who don't care for GURPS.  I *like*
>T4/T4.1.  I genuinely do.  I don't like the GURPS system.  This is a matter
>of taste, I'll admit.  I hope when GTrav comes out it sells a gazillion
>copies.  I'd love that.  I'll buy copies of the GURPS Traveller stuff (funny
>how the announcement of one source book has been changed to a whole GTrav
>_line_).

Sure, there may not be more than one -- but you have GURPS Vehicles that is
vastly better (and simpler to use) than FF&S (#1 or #2); you have GURPS Robots
which does things that FF&S can't do; you have 3G3 which does things better than
FF&S2 for gun design ... and you'll soon have CORPS VDS for vehicles if you
don't really like GURPS Vehicles (and, while I like GV#1, I do not really like
GV#2); you have Ultra Tech and Ultra Tech #2 for all sorts of goodies ... most
of which can be easily integrated into GURPSTrav; you have GURPS Psionics ...
and there's much more. So you have all that good stuff to begin with as source
material for a huge potential variety of different campaign styles. And I
suspect that one of the things that GURPSTrav will (have to) do is to indicate
how to convert those source materials to Traveller compatability.

>But, here go the facts:  When the time comes, and GTrav is released, there
>will be venom and hissing and cursing:  
>"How could they include the flugel-widgets?  Everyone knows they were stupid
>and scientifically unrealistic!  And how could they leave out Vargr chew
>toys?  Everyone knows that they're a cornerstone of Classic Traveller!  And
>the new damage system sucks, you could never stand up to a plasma blast in
>MegaTraveller!  And page 27 of Obscure-Canon-Source says that robot brains
>can't have an intelligence of 8 or more, where do they get off?"

Agreed. But what would the TML be without it?!!! ;-)

>Yada yada yada.
>
>I'll say this.  You're entitled to your opinions.  I agree with you on some.
> For example, I really don't care for Foss to much.  His paintings are way
>out of scale to the Traveller universe.  He is technically competent, but the
>ships are just too monolithic and ugly.  I don't know.  Whatever.

Look, I really like T4 as a *system* ... but its been too badly damaged by IG's
complete and total lack of competence. Short of a massive injection of competent
staff, funds to alleviate the time pressure caused by cash flow problems
(assuming that this *is* the reason for much of their lack of competently
produced products), and a vast increase in the quality of the products they are
doing, then I don't see that IG is *worth* saving. We would all be better off
with them going bust quickly, and with GURPSTrav being a large enough success to
attract someone with some *real* money and *real* competence to reissue a
cleaned up T4 as T5 ... someone, *anyone*, other than the displayed incompetents
at IG!

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:13:44 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

David P. Summers writes:
>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>You're forgetting the most crucial difference between a navy ship and a
>>pirate/corsair: The navy is paid to fight, the pirate only fights to get
>>paid. In other words, pirates don't like fair fights... or any fight that
>>may impose repair bills greater than the potential gain.
> 
>Which is why they attack by suprise.  I would say that if you have
>two ships of equal ability one pulls up close and gets a suprise 
>attack in, it's not a fair fight.

No, but if you have traffic regulations to keep ships from pulling up close,
your hypothetical pirate can't achieve surprise. It's not like he can lie
hidden in a dense patch of ether and pounce as the merchant passes him by.
Detection in space is an altogether different thing from detection on Earth
(and even here advanced technology is making things tougher and tougher on
the would-be lurker). In space there's no place to hide! (Hey, that would
make a good slogan for an Aliens rip-off ;-).
 
>>You appear to have completely ignored my financial arguments, ie. how many 
>>assets a world pays for _anyway_.  [...] I'm talking about government who 
>>has the ships in the first place and may as well get some use out of them. 
> 
>Yeah, the problem is that you are talking about dispersing them through
>out the Spinward Marches, which we have aleady established negates their
>military value.

We have established no such thing. I don't even recall that you have claimed
it in this discussion, but I may just have missed it (In any case things
don't become established just because you (or, I admit it, I) claim it.) 
Have you ever played a TCS campaign? Did you put out scouts in every system 
you owned (and a lot you didn't)? Did you put pickets in all your systems? 
I did. And I _claim_ that anyone with a bit of sense would do the same. 
Those pickets might as well earn their keep by taking care of any passing 
pirates. 

Provided, of course, that there are enough assets to supply enough picket 
ships. About which, see below.
  
>Well, the price of insurance drops to reflect the low probability of 
>piracy.  Having to waste fuel and time on every jump doesn't.   

Do the math. The loss is negligible (The fuel cost is especially ludicrous). 
And it will be passed on to the customers anyway. 
  
>>Plus, it's not like the merchants
>>would have any choice if the government demanded it.
> 
>Why would the government demand it if trade didn't want it.  It's not
>like military ships have problems with piracy.

Why wouldn't trade want it? Piracy is bad. It's an unexpected expense that
can really mess up your financial statements. Getting rid of it is good for
everybody, and when an expense applies equally to everybody, as this one
will, no one can undercut their business rivals by avoiding the expense, so
no one will have an interest in getting rid of it. If anything, the big
companies might have the clout to get passed through faster than the small
fry, so it would actually be an advantage to them. The system could very
well exist even without the pirates.
 
>>It would be another story if you had to detatch, say, 10% of your planetary
>>defenses to do this on other worlds. But you don't. We're talking about a
>>fraction of 1/1000th of you planetary defense. Makes a difference, don't 
>>you think?
> 
>I don't think it takes 1/1000th of your planetary defenses, as I have
>stated elsewhere.

So you have, but you haven't backed it up. I told you the rules I was 
basing my arguments on. If you think I'm interpreting them wrong, show
me where I go wrong. If you think the rules are faulty (I'll certainly
admit that they are overly general) then tell me what rules you would
consider reasonable and show me how they make the navies of high-population 
worlds too weak to spare a few hundred patrol ships. But don't just say
that a single statement with no backup proves anything.
 
>>>So you think that piracy might occur around a Gas Giant?
> 
>>No, not really. Most Gas Giants won't be used for refuelling anyway. Those
>>that are will have an area patrolled by a few patrol ships (those that don't
>>have a refuelling station selling refined fuel orbiting the Gas Giant; it
>>won't take much regular traffice before such a station is economically
>>viable). And Gas Giants are so big that even for completely unguarded Gas
>>Giants the chance of a pirate lurking just where you decide to skim is
>>quite remote.
> 
>Well, it will be.  Even the fuel you purchase from the star port comes
>from the gas giant, someone else just gets it.  

And that someone else can look out for pirates. 'In space there is no place
to hide!' remember? How do you expect the pirate to get to the Gas Giant
undetected if the Gas Giant is under observation at all times?

>Also, the pirate doesn't need to be lurking in the exact spot.  

If he wants to remain hidden he has to lurk deep enough in the Gas Giant
that he can't be spotted by sensors. That puts him low enough to degrade 
his own sensors, interposes the planet between him and a lot of the area
that a refuelling ship may choose, and delay his flight if he does spot
an incoming ship.

>Just like any other system, he can spot you on the way in or out.

Oh, that's right. He won't be down there in the first place, because he
would have been spotted on the way in and patrol ships would be buzzing
him like angry bees. Look, anything that will help a pirate catch a
merchant will also help a patrol ship catch a pirate. The only thing that
will allow a pirate a fighting chance (as it were) is a dearth of patrol
ships.

>>It's a question of degree. Customs officials don't get all that upset about
>>the odd smuggled bottle, so they only spot-check for smugglers. Air-port
>>security really detest hijackings, so they closely scrutinize every single
>>passenger. The kind of dislike a government has for pirates are of the
>>second kind.
> 
>I don't agree.  You have used the most trivial kind of smuggling to
>characterize all kinds (which can include prohibited weapons, nasty drugs, 
>biologicals for terrorists, etc.).  Yes, air-port make an effort to stop 
>hijackings that is probably out of line with the threat 

OK, I'll concede that point. The mere _potential_ nastiness of a crime is 
evidently not enough to make governments react in a big way. Could it be
that it is the visibility of the crime that makes governments react more
to hijacking than to drug smuggling? Come to think of it, aren't the US
government putting a lot more effort into stopping drug smugglers than 
into stopping odd-bottle smugglers?

>If you want to suppose the Imperium has a similar view of piracy, 

I do want to. Piracy has all the earmarks of a crime that would provoke
governments in a big way.

>that is OK.  But that is simply a another spin on the problem, not 
>reasoning that invalidates an Imperium  with piracy.

Not on its own, agreed. But you will agree that the Emperor would rather
not have piracy, given a choice? That if he could simply push a button
and end piracy forever, he would do it? OK, so the problem simply boils
down to a comparison of two things: 1) How much effort would it take to
suppress piracy and 2) how badly do you want it.

I maintain that using 1/1000th of your naval budget to suppress piracy
sounds worth it to avoid having to soothe angry delegations of merchants
who wants Something Done About This Outrage.

>>If you reply, please do address the question of how many assets would be
>>needed to curb piracy and how many assets are available.
> 
>I did. I've pointed out that you will need a couple of dozen for each
>world 

And I've pointed out that you would have those dozens. And scores.

>and will need to protect any world in a system that supports trade
>(which includes the main world, the gas giants, and all other worlds with 
>other populations, mining, etc. on them).  

True, provided the system has other worlds that are being exploited. Of
course, if they are being exploited they represent the interests of a
sizable civilization with Stellar+ technology. Someone with a sizable
naval budget...

>Then you need to do this in every system in the Imperium.  

And a lot of those systems will only need to have one world patrolled.

>You also need those patrols big enough to stop the pirates from doing 
>simple things like ganging up into groups of two or three and/or attacking 
>by suprise (ie you need a a force that can deal with any worst case senario, 
>which is the way it usually works.)

Remember that the communication lag applies equally to the pirates. If you 
have a few cruisers visiting the pickets on a random basis, the pirates
(the hypothetical band of pirates who won't exist if single pirates can't
make a living) won't know if they are commiting suicide when they try to
jump in and surprise the patrol. And, again, a pirate don't like fighting
navy ships; there's no future in it. Btw., you can keep a cruiser
permanently with quite a few of the patrols and still keep within the
budget I postulate.

>You have given reasons why you don't agree with these (like you vision
>of legally required departure arrival points) and I have told you why
>I don't think it would necessarily work this way.

So you have, and I still find your reasoning flawed. If you want to agree
to disagree, then that's fine by me. If you want to argue, then that's
fine too, but then you have to expect me to argue back, right? 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:29:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

T4.1 needs a ship design system and a space combat system. TNAS is the ship
design system; TSCS is the space combat system.

	The Traveller Naval Architecture System (TNAS) provides the ability to
design spacecraft, starships and small craft for Traveller quickly (a typical
design takes less than 30 minutes) and easily. The system is based on
standardized components which are selected from lists. 
	TNAS designs craft of 10 tons or more, and ships up to 10,000 tons. It does
not allow for customized ship components. Ships designed using TNAS resolve
combat using the Traveller Ship Combat System (TSCS).

TNAS includes 
1. Introduction.
2. QSP (Quick Ship Profile) for a basic UPP-sized description of ships.
3. Starship Card (as opposed to just a format) on which the data is recorded
(and used in TSCS).
4. Checklist/Worksheet for the design process.
5. Standard components based on FF&S2. But shown as lists.

TSCS includes
1. Introduction.
2. Search Procedure
3. Space Combat Procedure.


In a message dated 97-09-26 07:50:12 EDT, you write:

<< I did notice that the proportions he gave for the wedge hull were 1:1 
 height:width, whereas the FF&S2 one is 1:2.4:3.5 height:width:length...>>

Is there some requirement that all hulls of a form must be in specific
dimension ratios?

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:25:45 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Campaign Plot I'm toying with (longish)

Christopher E. Webb wrote:

> I'm looking for some constructive comments about the following plot for a
> campaign I'm starting next week with some friends of mine in college.  I'm
> using the TNE game system, but I'm using my own background & history.
>

<Snip of campaign details>

Christopher, I've used something like this. One possible suggestion, rather than
have your rock (mine was the last gasp of a star wars defense system) damage the
J-drive directly, destroy the power plant. This will render the ship dead in the
water just as effectively, without the need for as much collateral damage, making
it a bit more realistic that the PCs can repair it with out a full shipyard at
their disposal.

Transportation is the key. I placed the 2nd Imperium star port, (source in my game
for the repair parts) half a world away and behind enemy lines, (two tech 5
nations at war, the PC's ship landed in one, the parts were in another, being used
by a techno-preisthood, who DID NOT want to give them up!). If you destroy their
shuttle, they will have to repair it to get the repair parts into space, or create
a surface to orbit technology, not impossible, especially if they only need to use
it once, rather than multiple times, which the amount of damage you ar proposing
would call for. Or, you could provide a shuttle in wrecked colony ship, but why
wouldn't the locals have used it before losing their tech?

Depending on how creative your group is (mine were very) don't give them too much.
This scenario lasted several games, my players had to first make friendly contact,
find that there were replacement parts, locate them, organize a raiding party
around local fighters and transportation, perform the raid, transport the power
plant across hostile territory, and then engineer modifications to their ship to
use it. During the course of all this they managed to up grade the tech level of
their allies in some areas by several points (the world was about tech 5, by the
time they were done there was tech 6-7 weapons on the drawing boards of their
allies).

Should be fun. Please, let me know how the campaign goes, on the TML if others are
interested, or by private email.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:48:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Positive Note

>The T4 rules have improved my game by allowing us to focus more on the
>story and having fun with the campaign rather than putting all that
>energy into die rolling and fixing a House system that merged two out of
>print editions.

Which is, when it really comes down to it, what roleplaying is all about.  I
bought the T4 rules only a short while ago (I was gearing up my campaign
using TNE rules mixed with a little MT.  I was seriously considering the MT
task system).  I would have bought them sooner, but the only people who were
speaking up on the list were so damn negative about it.  I really thought if
I bought it I'd want to take it back spitting...

But I didn't, and I liked it.

But enough about that...  Where does one get a copy of the KBv2.0 rules
stuff?

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:26:33 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Protecting Jump Points

At 01:33 pm 09/26/97 +0100, you wrote:
>And for Dave Golden:
>>I've already seen things that lead me to think Marc is ignoring FF&S2 for
>>Yet Another Ship Design System. Which will completely blow the flame out
>>for me. It's already flickering pretty badly.
>Uh-oh. Places large gun to side of head and prepares to pull the trigger...

	Don't do it! See Marc's recent post pointing out that we misinterpreted
something ...

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1884
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 27 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1885



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Kill ff&s2
Re: Challenge 75
Re: OT: Angle and Distance, Cartesian Coords.
Re: The Piracy Threads
Animal Encounters; errata for T4
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: A gearhead/techie proposal
Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...
Mystery Solved
Re: Armour value question...
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: Armour value question...
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Traveller - dying or not?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:28:37 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Kill ff&s2

At 06:05 am 09/26/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Regarding starships; Starships are not vehicles! A 10 cubic meter power
>plant will take 10 cubic meters in a vehicle. Whereas the same power
>plant would take 14 cubic meters or one displacement ton in starship.
>Why, a vehicle is serviced from the outside, a starship from the inside.

	Not necessarily. Especially on a small starship or spacecraft. What's the
difference between a 140m^3 grav vehicle and a 140m^3 ship's launch?

	We did think on having different "access" factors so you could build a
cramped interplanetary racer, or a spacious family runabout, but time ...
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:18:27 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Challenge 75

At 12:55 pm 09/26/97 +0800, Colin Hutchinson wrote:
>Can anyone help me?  I am looking for the errata for FF&S for TNE (1st
>printinting) which appeared in Challenge 75.  I have misplaced my copy and
>now have all the later, but not the first errata.  A bit of a problem.

	I've got it. At one point I started typing it in but ... realworld
problems ... interfered. Also, I've got the 1st ed to 2nd ed upgrade, and
the 2nd ed fixes already HTML'ed, I just need to put them back on my Web site.

>Secondly, why aren't the space missiles listed (in the back of FF&S) as
>having a volume?  Any help would be appreciated

	All FF&S missiles have a volume of 7m^3.
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:24:31 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Angle and Distance, Cartesian Coords.

At 01:00 am 09/26/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I have an XYZ coord system (spatial coords).    X is right to left 
>on the plane, Y is depth on the plane and Z is height above/below 
>the plane.
>
>I want 0/360 degrees to be a gain on the Y, 90 degrees to be a gain 
>on the X and so forth, counter-clockwise.
>
>What is the proper math to take coords (XYZ) and find it on a 
>sphere, noted as heading, elevation and distance? 

Note that the tangent of the base angle of a right triangle is defined as
the ratio of opposite to adjacent sides


                                         |
                                         | Opposite
                                         |
               < angle                   |
             ----------------------------
                       Adjacent

Defining heading as the angle, in the XY plane, between the X axis and the
projection of the position vector onto the XY plane,

	Heading = arctangent(y/x)

Defining elevation as the angle, in a plane passing through the position
vector and perpendicular to the XY plane,

	Elevation = arctangent( z / sqrt( x^2 + y^2) )

Distance is

	sqrt( x^2 + y^2 +z^2 )

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:50:32 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: The Piracy Threads

Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> writes:

>Let's look at the arguements.

Always a good idea to sum up after a discussion has run for a while.

>1) Piracy can't exist, because the pirates have nothing to gain.  

>So how does he get the ship?  If it's hijacked, selling it could be a
>tough thing.  

Agreed, unless he had the option of going to another jurisdiction. One that
wouldn't care that the ship was hijacked.

>Also, what are the motivations?  Someone who has a purpose may not be
>interested in cashing in the ship.  Perhaps the charactor has a grudge
>against a specific company or world or whatever, and is only hunting their
>ships?  There are many examples of fanatics (unfortunately) that we can
>use to illustrate this.

Yes, but he still has to pay his bills. The operation has to keep in the
black. That is one of the fundamental differences between the public and
the private warship.

>Or perhaps our corsair has the equivalent of a letter of marque...Just
>because two worlds (or corporations) are members of the Imperium doesn't
>mean that they have to like each other.  While a 'hot war' may not be
>permitted, 'black' actions such as preying on each others merchant traffic
>may be overlooked.

Ah, no... Black operations may be winked at, but they would still be
illegal. There's no such thing as a Letter of Marque unless you are 
actually at war.
 
>2) Piracy can't exist, because of the patrols.
> 
>This is also a tough one.  I ran the numbers for a response time for a 4G
>patrol cruiser to get out to the 100 D point for a UWP size 6 world - 51
>minutes.  Not a lot of time.
> 
>Of course, there has to be a Patrol Cruiser in orbit for this to occur.
> 
>This is where you really have to look at the industrial base of a sector.
>Class A and B starports _build_ spacecraft and starships.  Bad JuJu for a
>pirate, and operations inside these systems would have to be very
>carefully planned indeed.  

Agreed so far.

>For everyone else, the ships must be imported.

Not at all. They can be sent from the neighboring system. All maintenance
and repair can be performed at the home port. That's how the US keeps
ships in the oceans of the world that dosen't adjoin her.

>The maintenance and repair facilities for these ships will have to be
>imported.  The personnel manning these ships will very likely have to be
>imported. (Can you say mercenaries?) But, it really comes down to, it's
>not how many ships can a system support, but how many ships can the sector
>starports turn out?

And the average answer is roughly 5 trillion credit squadrons per billion 
people living in the sector. That's what I've been trying to get across. 

>There is also the matter of the composition of the Navy.  While 1,000 dTon
>ships and smaller are ideal for custom patrols and anti-piracy work, they
>tend to get chewed up and spit out in major fleet engagements.

All navies I've heard of have had ships of various sizes for various jobs.
Ships of customs and anti-piracy work size are also ideal for pickets. 

>Larger ships, while fitting into the mission of the Imperial Navy, tend to 
>be impractical for serious piracy suppression.  (I'd run, wouldn't you?)

I'd run from a patrol ship too. And that's all you need to suppress piracy.
A pirate has to pay his bills. If he has to run he can't capture, if he
can't capture he can't gain loot, and if he can't loot he has to go
bankrupt or turn to honest work.

>Resoure allocation will be a concern - no matter which era your campaign
>plays in.  As long as piracy is a minor concern, keeping in mind that a
>1:36 misjump chance is considered acceptable, 

Come on, you can't be serious. You couldn't run an interstellar civilization
if there really were a 1 in 36 chance of a misjump every time.

>How much of your resources are you going to throw at it?  Every ship that a 
>Class C, D, or E system has to buy is credit that flows _out_ of the system. 

Every ship a class A or B system build is a loss of resources too. The two
situations are very alike, except that the loss is slightly bigger for the
C, D, and E systems, but not that much bigger. If you want to be able to
defend your system, you need either ships or a friendly ally with ships.
In any case, once you have the ships, you may as well get some use out of
them. 

>Every person that mans and/or maintains the ships are skill sets that are 
>not being used to generate credit either in the industrial base, 

And so is every person that mans and/or maintains the ships of the class A
and B systems. 

>or through taxation/duties or whatever. 

Once they have the ships classe C, D, and E systems can collect taxes and
duties as much as any class A and B system. (In any case, customs and
taxation dosen't create wealth, it merely moves it around).

>(tho' some would argue that protecting the merchants encourages growth, 
>and thus generates income - IMHO it is indirect at best, and not measurable)

Neither is the 'gain' you get from having a navy to protect you from losses
you won't suffer because you have the navy.
 
>Finally, the discussion has focussed concentration of forces around the
>mainworld.  What about the rest?  Admittedly, the bulk of traffic will be
>going to the system mainworld, but there is no reason why a merchant could
>not be chartered to deliver to one of the other worlds in the system
>instead, or to a space station somewhere in the system. 

Yes, and there is no reason why patrol ships can't keep a system like that
free of pirates. 'In space there is no place to hide!' (Which is not
entirely true... the correct expression is 'In space there is no place to
hide except a hell of a long way away from sensors and with your engines
turned waaaay down!', but it dosen't have the same snap ;-)

I'm not saying you can't hide in space, but I do say that you can't hide
close to a traffic lane. Remember, all merchants are required to use
transponders. That means there is no reason why they shouldn't use
active sensors (especially so for those on regular scheduled flights).

All it takes to keep a star system free of pirates is enough ships to do
it. So the question remains: Will there be enough ships to do it? And my
answer is: Definitely yes.

>And, as I have pointed out in other posts, intra-system traffic is an 
>excellent source of income for the serious corsair - even (or especially) 
>in systems with Class A and B starports.

BTW. have you considered that a lot of intra-system traffic will be
conducted by jump ships?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 17:16:25 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Animal Encounters; errata for T4

I've been trying to generate animal encounter tables for Eskaloyt and I
noticed a few problems with the rules:

Page 144 and 145: The rules say you need to roll the Attack/Flee number
		  _or more_ for the animal to Attack/Flee. It should be
		  the number or less.

Page 152: The 'To attack' collumn of the ANIMAL CHARACTERISTICS table have 
          the 'To flee' figures and vice versa.
 
	  Some of the figures for attack and flee rolls in the sample
	  encounter table cannot be generated from the rules (Unless I
	  missed some DMs somewhere).



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

>Its got nothing to do with whether its difficult or not. What *is* important is
>that the whole product shows a complete and total lack of competence of even the
>most basic sort on the behalf of IG. Sorry, I won't buy ptoducts (knowingly)
>with major typos in them.

With all due respect, you're singing a different tune now.  You said that
FFS2 was unusable due to the skewed equations.  So, yes, it does have to do
with whether it is difficult or not.

On the other hand, I agree.  Yes, when all is said and done, IG should have
checked their proofs.  Its a shame that they let a couple of rookie mistakes
hamstring a potentially brilliant product.

However, it also seems that some of your problem might come from the fact
that you really don't like FFS to begin with.  Which is fine, people are
entitled to their own opinions...

>I have Milieu 0 and First Survey, to ... and I have no intention of buying the
>hardback version, even if it does have extra materials, and for the same reason.
>Basically, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me ... I bought
>garbage once, and I have no intention of supporting the
>incompetence/incompetents at IG by buying the supposedly new and improved
>edition. Sure, if they want to do a swap and take my garbage copies and give me
>a new hardcover for a nominal cost, say $10, then I would be interested ... but
>no way will I actually buy the thing.

I'm sure you've seen by now that Marc Miller has said he wouldn't mind
putting the extra info on the list for everybody who bought the first two
books.  However, what do you find wrong with Milieu: 0, exactly?  If its
garbage, why is it garbage?

Again, I have the book, and I have been using it just fine.  I have run into
no problems at all with it.

>No, it won't be all things to all people ... and I agree that there are a lot of
>problems with GURPS ... the character creation system is completely
>unTravellerlike and will need to be changed dramatically if it is to be any good
>(and if it isn't changed in GURPSTrav, then I will do an alternate system in
>DS#3, just as I did for the T4 system in DS#1). However, it *will* sell ... and
>Traveller needs a track record so that whoever has the license can see that it
>*is* a goer, and that IG have to be ditched *completely* and replaced with
>someone who is a) halfway competent and b) capable of producing a quality
>product (i.e. with the financial backing to do so ... not an evidently
>undercapitalised crock like IG).

Yes it will sell.  Although I'm not sure that this is the magic wand waving
over everything that it may seem to be.  I don't know, I voiced this before,
and I got some semi-hostile responses, but GURPS doesn't seem to be a hot
seller in my neck of the woods.  I know of only own store that has a fairly
wide selection of GURPS stuff at the moment, and it doesn't seem to fly off
the shelf like everyone seems to think.  I haven't asked about the sales, but
the same sourcebooks are there day in and day out.

But, that could just be the area I live in.

>Sure, there may not be more than one -- but you have GURPS Vehicles that is
>vastly better (and simpler to use) than FF&S (#1 or #2); you have GURPS Robots
>which does things that FF&S can't do; you have 3G3 which does things better than
>FF&S2 for gun design ... and you'll soon have CORPS VDS for vehicles if you
>don't really like GURPS Vehicles (and, while I like GV#1, I do not really like
>GV#2); you have Ultra Tech and Ultra Tech #2 for all sorts of goodies ... most
>of which can be easily integrated into GURPSTrav; you have GURPS Psionics ....
>and there's much more. So you have all that good stuff to begin with as source
>material for a huge potential variety of different campaign styles. And I
>suspect that one of the things that GURPSTrav will (have to) do is to indicate
>how to convert those source materials to Traveller compatability.

Be fair here.  3G3 is 1.) not an official GURPS product and 2.) works just as
well with T4 as it works with GURPS.  The CORPS VDS will probably also have
its own conversions for T4 it seems.  So, I think its unfair to lump these in
the GURPS and GURPS alone category.  I like 3G3 very much.  I think its a
good book.  I also like FFS2.  To be completely honest, I've been having more
trouble pushing out gun designs with 3G3, but I think this is mainly because
I'm more used to FFS gun smithing.

As far as the GURPS technological supplements, I really haven't had the
chance to peruse them, with the exception of Robots.  I wasn't extremely
impressed with it.  I can't tell you why exactly, I just didn't come away
feeling that this was the be all and end all of robot creation books.
 Although, I think it would be unfair to make a major judgement based on
having perused the book a couple of times in the comic book store.

>Look, I really like T4 as a *system* ... but its been too badly damaged by IG's
>complete and total lack of competence. Short of a massive injection of competent
>staff, funds to alleviate the time pressure caused by cash flow problems
>(assuming that this *is* the reason for much of their lack of competently
>produced products), and a vast increase in the quality of the products they are
>doing, then I don't see that IG is *worth* saving. We would all be better off
>with them going bust quickly, and with GURPSTrav being a large enough success to
>attract someone with some *real* money and *real* competence to reissue a
>cleaned up T4 as T5 ... someone, *anyone*, other than the displayed incompetents
>at IG!

Well, T4 as a system hasn't been damaged too much.  Some of the supplements
are flawed.  Some ("Starships") more flawed than others, and some ("Emperor's
Arsenal", "Central Supply Catalog") damn good product.  All in all, T4 has
had a _really_ rocky start.  I don't believe in following anything blindly,
and I've tried to get as much info on a specific book as possible before
buying it.  Luckily my local gaming store has no problem with you checking
out the books before you buy them.  The only book I was there to buy when it
came in was FFS2 and I'm quite happy with my purchase.  I avoided "Starships"
in a big way mainly because I looked through it and was very unhappy.  I'm
still not sold on "Aliens Archive", so I haven't bought it yet.  The store
hasn't managed to keep a copy of "Pocket Empires" in long enough for me to
get a copy or even check it out at length, same with "Psionic Institutes".
 They also haven't been able to keep a copy of FFS2 on the shelves either.

But when it comes down to it, its a matter of taste.  I agree that IG has
fumbled the ball very often.  However, I think when you step back and take a
look at the whole line, its really less flawed then it appears.

Semo

 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 07:08:13 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: A gearhead/techie proposal

Thank you VERY much for the info.  Given those statistics, what is the
largest ship size that can be made?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 07:22:39 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...

Are you serious?  Traveller actually had an item called "Vargr Chew
Toys"?  If so, I'm laughing...

As to GURPS-Traveller, I'll pass.  I don't like the Gurps style role
playing system in the least.

As to the equations in FFS2 being incorrect, I'm one of those guys who
needs them to be correct.  I'm not enough of a mathematician to be able
to "correct" IG's mistakes.  But you give me the equations correctly,
and an example of how to compute them, and I've got no problems at all.
I'll probably end up writing a computer program to do it for me based on
inputs or random numbers.  :)

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:18:06 -0700
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@southwest.net>
Subject: Mystery Solved

Wow, what a response! Thank you all who picked up my gauntlet. Was it fun?
Most everyone fingered Redman as the culprit which was correct, but Eric
Nolan was the first to guess the closest.

Eric writes 9/25/97:
>
>Redman is an agent of Imperial Intelligence.  ImpInt is interested in
>keeping tabs on the player characters since they obviously have highly
>placed contacts outside the Imperium (including with the Zho's), perhaps
>they even perform espionage operations for special interest groups.  
>
Bulls eye. Granted one small ship is small fry for the Imperium of the
1100's, but Redman is also a fairly insignificant field operative. When the
PC's ship (a unique and unknown design, remember?) landed on this backwater
world, warning messages went off at local intelligence H.Q. Redman
volunteered as a means the improve her own career.

>Placing Redman with the mercenaries will probably gain some intelligence
>on Imperial and non-Imperial covert activities by groups which might
>hire the players.  The opportunity may also arise to sabotage some
>important anti-Imperial activities by the players.  If the players turn
>out not to be a useful source of intelligence then Redman can witness
>any crimes they (doubtless) commit and organise an operation to capture
>the players and sieze their (very expensive) ship.  (cue: Adventure 8:
>Prison Planet).
>
At this point the group would have several options:
1) Do nothing. At least, do nothing subversive to the Imperium. Redman will
eventually decide the PCs are loyal to the Imperium and leave. This could
actually be a good thing, since a favorable report could lead to some
lucrative contracts with ImpInt or related factors.

2) Eliminate Redman. This option is not as easy as it may seem. Redman is a
highly intelligent, well trained (but not overly experienced), cold-blooded
killer. The first thing she will attempt is sabotage of the vessels
powerplant with a 'dead-man' switch. A viral program inserted in the power
management computer subsystems will monitor for Redman's active input.
Should she ever meet an untimely end the powerplant will immediately shut
down, which could have disastrous effects if the ship should be in jump.
Redman never intended it to be used, but instead needed a bargaining chip
to affect her escape should she ever get cornered by the crew.

3) Fall into Redman's trap. Should the players be disloyal to the Imperium
then then ImpInt or the navy will act accordingly.

4) Not let Redman on board. This one could be the most sadistic. Should the
crew lock their doors against Redman she will simply disappear, but shortly
local authorities will come knocking will lots of BIG guns. The PCs will
become suspects themselves in the murder of three people and since they
were present in the 'flea-bag hotel' physical evidence will be available to
press charges. Meanwhile any evidence of Redman's involvement or even her
existence on planet will evaporate. The players are unlikely to be found
guilty (with a really good defence lawyer), but the time involved will be
more than long enough for Imperial authorities to seize the ship and
uncover it's secrets by brute force.

Disclaimer: If the graphic detail of the 'Mystery Challenge' offended
anyone's sensibilities I do apologize. My 'Public Service Editor' was a
little out of whack that night. :-)

Brian A. Howard

If you hear the sound of a Babel fish, run. 
For a Vogon constuctor fleet cannot be far behind.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:41:05 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Armour value question...

At 01:08 AM 9/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>	Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
>FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?

What kind?


- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|----------------------------------------|
|      I am trying to find myself.       |
| If I should return before I come back, |
|        please ask me to wait.          |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 07:32:31 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

I have the 2nd printing, 1989 version, of 3G, "3G-02" Gun Design for any RPG.
Is this supplement any good?  I've never used it after buying it in 1989.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:20:05 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Armour value question...

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

> 
> 
> 	Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
> FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?
> 

Extrapolating from a 'stony body' planetoid hull, with a tougness of 0.71,
that is 100 * 50,000 * 0.71 = 3.55e6.

What, Hengabar have a new derringer he needs to try out on a suitable
target? A man-portable black hole gun or somesuch?  

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:46:09 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

At 08:35 PM 9/26/97 PST, Leonard wrote:

>Battledress can just walk across the bottom. Of course, I've seen a few
>riverbeds that show why this can be a *bad* idea (river flows over bare
>rock, and there are some *deep* cracks). Still, I suspect that an
>approach marching across the bottom, with engineer units bridging the
>worst parts of the bottom, would be a workable tactic in some cases. It
>certainly makes it hard to shoot at you as you are crossing. :-)

Other problems would include river bottoms made up of soft mud that could
suck a BD-equipped trooper down, strong currents, and damage to equipment.

Given a choice, I'd rather take a crossing point like a bridge or ford than
waste time walking across the bottom.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:17:55 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

At 03:57 PM 9/26/97 -0700, you wrote:
>What rules book are "Jump Projectors" in?  and do they have
>"man-portable" versions?

Sqquullippptttttt!!!!!!

<The sound of a mouthful of coke being expelled through my sinuses onto the
screen>

Gah!  Rod, I think FS has a new conceptual engineer canidate here...

Jump Projectors are huge, spinal mount weapons.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 08:59:35 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller - dying or not?

At 02:10 PM 9/27/97 +0100, you wrote:
>
>
>I don't know what the state of T4 in the games shops is. My 'local' shop is
>some distance away and last time I looked was full of AD&D and White Wolf
>The Condescending Roleplaying Experience. 

My NSLBVFGS does a regular business with T4.  Not their hottest seller, but
regular.

>I buy just about everything by mail order. Thus far that's the rules, PE,
>SCS, EA, TLWH, 101 plots and Cargos, M0 and FS. And this at a time when I
>don't have ANY spare cash! Of the six gamers in our group, two have done
>likewise. I'm not sure about the others. 

I don't do mail-order because I want to support the store.. I like having a
place to hang out and discuss RPGs with some friends.

>That's pretty good, no?

Excellent, actually.. I'm always after my players to pick up rule books.

>And my mail order supplier frequently sells out all he's ordered on the T4
>material.

That is wonderful news!

>I don't think Traveller sales are so bad. IG probably know, maybe someone
>would care to comment?

I would love to have Tim Brown or Courtney discuss several things with us
about IG's business end.. 

They need to slow down.  Get T4.1 done *correctly* (as bug-free as humanly
possible) and then start giving writers time to properly playtest their
submissions.  Setting up a secure playtest system would be helpful.

>And more Traveller product - with ot without Foss (I say without)!

I must admit, the Foss art has grown on me.. like mold.  But if it keeps
the look of Traveller consistant, I'm all for it.

>But most importantly - look at what Marc's done for us recently. He didn't
>have to do that (and might have made a few more sales of the M0 campaign if
>he hadn't) - don't you think it's a rather poor show (very British. Sorry.)
>when some of us respond by saying 'hey, IG is dying!' 

Marc has long struck me as one of the cooler designers in the industry.  I
still remember calling GDW with a rules question when I was 14 and being
shocked that I got to speak with him.. he was really nice and answered all
my questions, even the dim ones.  :)

>T4 is the best shot at a 'definitive' Traveller we'll ever see. The bad
>bits are fixable and the good bits are great. Why, then, all the sniping?
>There's never going to be a better Traveller (I suspect that if IG goes
>then there'll be NO more Traveller.)

We snipe, because we all love the game, but we all love it for slightly
different reasons.  The differences are what makes the list interesting,
IMHO.  I remember X-Boat, which had all the vibrancy of a rest home at
times, with people not really saying much beyond "we're the only REAL
Traveller, daggummit!"

- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1885
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 27 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1886



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Re: M0 and FS
Re: M0 and FS
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: Kill ff&s2
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
Emperor's Vehicles Arrived
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
Re: M0 and FS
Re: Positive Note
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
The T4 Fist 
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
Pirates in Canon
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1884
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:09:58 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880

At 12:57 AM 9/27/97 GMT, you wrote:

>>Extrapolating your personal experience of perhaps only two or three
>>shops to the entire market is something people do all the time.  It
>>doesn't make it valid.  The only people who really know how T4 is
>>selling are IG.
>
>But I would suggest that the above reports are a worrying sign! And, after
>all, no-one has written in and said ... "Hey, that's wrong! *My* FLGS has
>expanded its order for Traveller and is giving it *greater* shelf display
>... and it never reaches the 'Bargain Bin'." I agree that anecdotal
evidence >should be treated with caution, but the very fact that there
seems to be no >such evidence of *good* sales is a worry.

Gamescape (Palo Alto, Ca) which is right next to Stanford University, keeps
a good amount of T4 in stock and gave M:0 Campaign a prominent place on the
new arrivals shelf.  They sold out of FFS2 in two days, and have made T4 a
regular part of the order.

>As for the people who know whether T4 is selling. Well, I think we can
>safely say that it is *not* because, as we all know, IG seems to have
>worsening cash-flow problems rather than improving ones. It is a dying
>company -- and deservedly so -- because the backers have obviously not put
>enough initial capitalisation into it. Whatever initial good feelings
there >were for the new Traveller have long since been lost because of
abortions >such as Starships.

Unless you have hard evidence that IG is in trouble, please don't start.
As for Starships.. it was released a year ago!  Get over Starships!  The
people who were responsible for that abortion of a supplement are gone, and
since then we've seen some marked improvement in the line.

>On the other hand, Traveller *will* survive -- but only as GURPS Traveller
>in the short to medium term. For T5 -- and, hopefully, a company with
>backers who actually *have a clue*, we'll have to wait for IG to go under
>... and how long is that going to be in the face of competent opposition
(in >the form of GURPSTrav).

People said much the same thing when White Wolf licensed the World of
Insuffcient Lighting for GURPSification.  Didn't happen.

>As I've said before, PE and TLWH are the last IG products I will buy. IG has
>lost me as a customer and is unlikely to ever pick me up again -- and that's
>pretty much the case for all the GMs in the group I belong to ... for
>example, none of them have purchased FF&S2 (and all -- even me, and I
>loathed it -- have FF&S) and won't, because of the unusable nature of the
>product with the stuffed equation layout. And its pretty much the same
>attitude for all the rest.

I wish somebody would explain to me why I'm able to use FFS2 when it is
unusable.  Must be my complete inability to do higher math has blinded me
to the "fact" that rather than designing starships I should be pouting over
the futzed equations.


- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:26:13 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
 
> Actually, the yard is the length of a piece of string in the fingers of
> one outstreched arm stretched to the tip of your nose. Just like a
> cubit is the distance from your elbow to your fingertips. 

Nope, a yard is the length of the _kings_ outstretched arm, just as an
inch is the length of the first joint of the _kings_ thumb. A cubit is the
distance of _Noah's_ elbow to his fingertips.

On the other hand, so to speak, knowing the dimensions of various parts of
your body makes for very handy, built in rulers. If I stretch out my left
hand as far as I can, it measures 8 1/2 inches from tip of my little
finger to the tip of my thumb; my right hand is a half-inch longer. Good
enough for approximate rule-of-thumb measurements in the hardware store
when, as usual, the tape measure is buried somewhere in the mess at home.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:32:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: M0 and FS

On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, MJ Dougherty wrote:

> Marc Said:
> 
> >Sure. Why not post them here on the list?
> 
> Huh? Do you mean all of us who have M0 and FS should make ourselves known?

Ah, what they hell...

/aol
ME TOO! ME TOO!
/-aol

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:32:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: M0 and FS

On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, MJ Dougherty wrote:

> Marc Said:
> 
> >Sure. Why not post them here on the list?
> 
> Huh? Do you mean all of us who have M0 and FS should make ourselves known?

Ah, what they hell...

/aol
ME TOO! ME TOO!
/-aol

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:40:10 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

At 07:32 AM 9/27/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I have the 2nd printing, 1989 version, of 3G, "3G-02" Gun Design for any
>RPG.
>Is this supplement any good?  I've never used it after buying it in
>1989.

It's excellent.  But I'd recomend picking up the latest version (3G3) which
has conversions for MT, TNE and T4.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|----------------------------------------|
|      I am trying to find myself.       |
| If I should return before I come back, |
|        please ask me to wait.          |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:30:59 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Kill ff&s2

At 08:22 AM 9/26/97 EST, you wrote:
>Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't carry
>it. IMO Traveller should never have gone gear head. Traveller 1 gave the
>referee and players the basics. The referee had the flexibility to run
>the campaign. And players weren't bogged down by complicated rules.
>

Pfui.  This morning, while running *errands* to gameshops (a day off from
work is a good thing...) I asked each shopkeeper about T4 sales.  The three
shops I visited didn't claim GREAT sales, but all said that a) they stock
all new T4 items because they DO sell, b) their response as to game quality
is average - that is, T4 doesn't seem to be the game to beat, but it DOES
sell consistently (not only on initial order, but on restocks as well), and
c) after being asked specifically about gear-head topics (i.e., those you'd
only address after reading FF&S2 from cover to cover), they said they heard
nothing in the way of complaints (or comments or anything else...) - out of
the ordinary - about them. Apparently, The Deadlands recently caused quite
a stir in a good way, while a couple of others garnered bad feedback.
Conclusion:  From the viewpoints of at least three sellers, T4 is a solid,
middle of the road game system. 

It occured to me that my perspective may be a bit warped.  I read dozens of
msgs per day from what must be the Traveller Elite (sorry folks - that's
what you are).  I assume that OF COURSE if there's a flaw in the vehicle
generation charts of The Emporer's Motorcycles, every gamer will notice it.
This doesn't seem to be the case.  Almost every TMLer will notice it.  Most
*normal* gamers seem to use a supplement to pull equipment from for a game.
 Most (in my limited experience) don't study the stats to verify them.  Net
result is that much of what I hear is broken/misguided/miscalculated about
T4 on the TML is only important to a limited number of us (Oops - I mean
you).  Most people - IMLE - take the canned vehicles/equipment and run...

 



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:45:51 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> T4.1 needs a ship design system and a space combat system. TNAS is the ship
> design system; TSCS is the space combat system.
> 
> 	The Traveller Naval Architecture System (TNAS) provides the ability to
> design spacecraft, starships and small craft for Traveller quickly (a typical
> design takes less than 30 minutes) and easily. The system is based on
> standardized components which are selected from lists. 
> 	TNAS designs craft of 10 tons or more, and ships up to 10,000 tons. It does
> not allow for customized ship components. Ships designed using TNAS resolve
> combat using the Traveller Ship Combat System (TSCS).

This is basically the _fixed_ version of QSDS (still my favorite starship
design system) fixed to be compatible with FFS2 instead of FFS. As Derek
or Dave (Sorry, I don't remember who it was) said recently, they're
waiting on an official go-ahead for that...just Pu-leeze!!! Give us more
than a week to pound it out! As this is more of a port than a new product,
and the actual authors of FFS2 would be involved, a very usable,
relatively bug-free system could be put together pretty quickly. After all
QSDS _has_ seen considerable playtesting...look at how many THUDDD and
miscellaneous posted designs have been done using it. But I really don't
want to see QSDS2 published, then within three months be up to QSDS2.2.3. 
 
> TNAS includes 
> 1. Introduction.
> 2. QSP (Quick Ship Profile) for a basic UPP-sized description of ships.
> 3. Starship Card (as opposed to just a format) on which the data is recorded
> (and used in TSCS).
> 4. Checklist/Worksheet for the design process.
> 5. Standard components based on FF&S2. But shown as lists.

If we can be _really_ ambitious, also include an appendix on making a
standard item list using FFS2, that way new component lists could be
readily generated.
> 
> << I did notice that the proportions he gave for the wedge hull were 1:1 
>  height:width, whereas the FF&S2 one is 1:2.4:3.5 height:width:length...>>
> 
> Is there some requirement that all hulls of a form must be in specific
> dimension ratios?

Absolutely none, but it _must_ be specified in the design sequence to
ensure backwards compatibility with FFS2. Finally we'll get to
do it _right_! 

Ahhh...the grail of compatible simple/complex sytems seems to be shining
in yonder tower! But Hark!! What is that _spanking_ sound I hear? ;-) 


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:01:36 -0400
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Emperor's Vehicles Arrived

My FLGS got it in three days ago.  112 pgs. 2 pgs intro, 2 pgs instructions
on use of vehicle & vehicle extension cards (equipment data cards), data
for 52 vehicle classes in this format:  Generic half-page illustration of
type (all inside art drawn by Brian Gibson - good work - not elaborate, but
clear and useful), followed by text description/explanation; facint page
has stats for 4 examples of the type.  No philosophy here - just equipment
to use in game.  I haven't checked stats for sensibility (I'll leave that
to the T4 Techies) but I liked it!  Illustration on pg 8 made the whole
thing worthwhile...  Feedback from other owners?



Bill Rutherford
worj@topgun.cinecom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:24:34 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

Phillip McGregor wrote:

> I actually like the game system (and have no problem with the 1/2 dice at all)
> and the rest (

Oh, well, now that you've mentioned the 1/2 dice, well...

Burn, baby, burn..

(Just kidding)


> However, I am disgusted at the incompetence of the people at IG. Starships, for
> a start. FF&S2 typesetting. PE typesetting. Gateway layout and typesetting. They
> have to be the most unprofessional "professional" company in the business! And
> that's why I'll be buying GURPSTrav and not a single IG product in future
> *unless* they (and this seems incredibly unlikely) get their act together.


There is no arguing with you on this one, Phil.  IG definitely has its
problems in this area.

You'd think they'd learn after those Judges-Guild-rip-off-deck-plans in
Starships.

And, I admit, it is taking them some time to learn the lesson.

My hope is that IG will get its act together.

I remember the first time I opened an AD&D supplement (I was a very avid
player of that game, but I haven't played in about 5 years--having
completed a 5 year campaign) and saw the whole document looking like
parchment paper.

There were neat drawings that took your imagination away, the cover
related to the contents, and the whole thing just spoke of atmosphere
and quality.

I've never had a problem with D&D's quality.  They've had their flops,
sure, but they were few and far between, at least in my opinion.

I'd like to see IG's supplements reach this level.  They are not there
yet, but I do see them trying.

After you get past all of that outer, marketing stuff, the quality of IG
stuff is pretty good.  I just finished reading Psionics Institutes, and
I'm going to have no problem converting some of the things in that book
to my 1100's campaign.

The point is the MATERIAL in IG products is pretty good.  They just need
to focus on making their stuff look better, especially after you open
the cover, and focus on the typos and printing errors.

Sombody said that on the IG products page, there is a reference to the
Varge.  Whoever wrote that should be shot.  Whoever is in charge of the
website should be shot.  This is the type of thing that is hurting their
reputation.

They've got a great role model in which to base IG product--old DGP
material.  They should use it.  

DGP stuff wasn't that fancy, but even compared to IG's stuff today, DGP
stuff LOOKS like it blows it away.  Those old DGP things always had
neat, very Traverllish art, very few typos, nice deckplans and system
maps, and incredible sector and subsector maps.

I'd like to see IG get to this quality.

I'm sticking in there.  I believe they will.

Kenneth.


> 
> Phil
> ---------------------------------------------
> Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
> Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
> Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
> Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:39:16 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

Phillip McGregor wrote:

> I have Milieu 0 and First Survey, to ... and I have no intention of buying the
> hardback version, even if it does have extra materials, and for the same reason.
> Basically, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me ... I bought
> garbage once, and I have no intention of supporting the
> incompetence/incompetents at IG by buying the supposedly new and improved
> edition. Sure, if they want to do a swap and take my garbage copies and give me
> a new hardcover for a nominal cost, say $10, then I would be interested ... but
> no way will I actually buy the thing.

Phil,

I do understand your reasons.  IG has made some mistakes, and some say,
"continue to make."

But, there's one thing for you to consider.  Marc is taking care of
those people, like me and you, who bought First Survey and Milieu 0
first editions.

He's going to make the added information available ON THIS LIST!

C'mon.  You've got to give him credit for that.  It's an incredible
move--one that you wouldn't expect from a game company.  

Doesn't Marc and IG deserve some slack for this?

I'm not saying to give them any slack just because.  I'm saying I think
Marc & Co. has EARNED some slack because of this.

It looks to me like they are trying.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:40:57 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

>         TNAS designs craft of 10 tons or more, and ships up to 10,000 tons.

Quick question:  Will there ever be a design system in which we can
design 100,000 ton ships, or even 500,000 ton ships?

Or is FF&S2 the place to do that?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:15:19 +0000
From: Tim Connors <tconnor@pop3.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Re: M0 and FS

At 09:32 AM 9/27/97 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>
>> Marc Said:
>> 
>> >Sure. Why not post them here on the list?
>>
	Alas, I, also, count myself among the number of those whose fingers are
ink-stained from the rapidity with which we purchased these two products.


Tim Connors

You can't fall off of the floor --
	Most human beings take two years to learn this.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:29:06 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Positive Note

> But enough about that...  Where does one get a copy of the KBv2.0 rules
> stuff?


I'll send you a copy of the long form with all the whys and why-fors 
in it.  This will include details on specific issues, like how to 
use the mutiple action rule, Spectacular Success and Spectacular 
Failure based on a character's skill level (the more skilled he his, 
the better chance of SS and the worse chance of SF), and  other 
things like JOT.

I'm sending this in a word.doc.  If you have a problem reading that, 
let me know.  I've got it in regular e-mail format too.



There are two basic changes that need to be made to use KBv2.0.

1)  Change the number of dice used to these whole dice codes.

Easy   2D
Average   3D
Difficult   4D
Formidable   5D
Staggering  6D
Impossible   7D



2)  Change the way you calculate the target number
 (In T4, target number = stat + skill)

KBv2.0 Target Number = Stat + Experience

      where:    Experience = Skill x 3



All the details are in the long post.  It's on the way.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 97 13:15:25 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

On 09/26/97 at 08:24 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:

>Actually, the yard is the length of a piece of string in the fingers of
>one outstretched arm stretched to the tip of your nose. Just like a cubit
>is the distance from your elbow to your fingertips. 

Right, and an inch is the length of the first joint of your thumb, or it's
width (or in my case the length of the first joint of my index finger..I
have small hands ;-).  A mile is so many strides (2000, I think). An ounce
is one (or two can't remember) mouthful of water and all weights and fluid
measures are multiples of that, in one way or another.  Hands (4 inches)
were the width of an open hand, including thumb.  Feet were..you guessed
it..approximately the length of one foot. I think Stadia were a certain
number of strides by Roman troops marching in formation on a road, and a
Stadium was a track of one stadia..right?

The old system is, at its heart, a series of approximations that match up
with things about the human body.  Shipwrecked sailors, engineers without
tools, stranded Legionnaires in the wilds of Germany could construct
measuring sticks and containers that would be "close enough" for TL0-3
work.  Metric is scientific, but much harder to estimate in  humanistic
terms.  The other advantage of the Imperial system is that it is very easy
to divide into different sized sections, yes I know metric is easy..just
divide by ten..but most Imperial units are
multiples/divisions of 2 or 4 of smaller/larger units.

For exacting work, metric makes sense, but the old imperial system is an
absolutely ingenious invention. 

Eris
 
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:46:07 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@weck.brokersys.com>
Subject: The T4 Fist 

Here's a little observation.

In T4, damage done by a person's body (hands, feet, etc.) do 1D 
damage, right?

Well, skipping through the EA, I see that in the description of this 
high tech knife (TL 10, I think) it states that knives will never be 
more than 1D.

Then I go to the low tech weapons, and I notice that swords are 
either 1D or 2D.  The same thing goes for clubs 2D).

So, my question is, why use a knife or a low tech sword when you can 
do the same damage with your fist?

Also, why is it that a knife does the same damage as a fist anyway?  
It seems that, with a knife, you can do a lot more damage, quicker, 
than you can with your bare fists.

In MT, this was a little different, in that fists did 1D damage, 
knives and such did 2D, and swords did 3D.


Ken's quick fix tweak to this:

Just looking at this briefly, I'd say reduce your hand damage to 1/2 
die (1 to 3), leaving room for the extra damage done by knives, and 
swords.

This way, fists do .5D, knives and daggers do 1D, and swords do 2D.

Kenneth. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:10:51 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

> << I did notice that the proportions he gave for the wedge hull were 1:1
>  height:width, whereas the FF&S2 one is 1:2.4:3.5 height:width:length...>>
>
> Is there some requirement that all hulls of a form must be in specific
> dimension ratios?
>
> Marc

Marc,

I do hope this post calms some of the latest batch of doomsayers. Just a comment to the
above piece of your post. To be honest the Length component of the SSDS system is one
of the things that really annoys me. While I've been working on a Excel spread sheet
using the FFS2 formula I found that it has been carried to describing the dimensions of
the hull, dependent on shape. For a system that is supposed to be the ground work for
designing other systems I find the fixed dimensions, again, annoying. This is the type
of limitation that should have been left for derivative, component based systems, not
imposed in the grass-roots design system. While I am including them in the spread sheet
I'm working on I fully intend to ignore them when working with deck plans, making the
plans fit my own view.Hieght:Width:Length aren't fixed in the real world, why should
they be in Traveller, except as determined by mission etc.

I don't mean this as a flame or attack on the writers of FFS2. I fully appreciate the
effort they put into the book, and, overall, I like it very much. I just wanted to
voice my opinion that it still has a bit of a derived feel to it. I wonder where they
came up with those modifiers?

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tony Zbaraschuk <tonyz@eskimo.com>
Subject: Pirates in Canon

I'm thinking of the Traveller Adventure here, which _does_ have
piracy in it, but under fairly strictly limited conditions.

There was an outbreak around a Red Zone world about twenty years
ago, but that was the Imperial noble that technically owns the
world trying to get some other people on it to go away.  (In
fact, the noble is the Marquis in charge of the subsector...)

And then there's the Tukera-Oberlindes war -- a big corporation
and a megacorporation going up against each other.  And we all
know that the megacorps are virtually laws unto themselves.


IOW, piracy as "Joe Shmoe gets a ship and uses it" probably
isn't going to happen, much, for reasons already stated in the
various pirate threads.

But the Imperium _does_ allow a certain low level of military
actions among its components (so long as the general peace
isn't threatened or a world endangered), and it seems as if
there's a window in here for piratical actions, as military
ops against another world/company/entity.


How prevalent is this sort of thing? Ideas?  Comments?



Tony Z

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:45:11 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1884

> 	The Traveller Naval Architecture System (TNAS) provides the ability to
> design spacecraft, starships and small craft for Traveller quickly (a
typical
> design takes less than 30 minutes) and easily. The system is based on
> standardized components which are selected from lists. 

	Marc, this sounds really good, but I guess my question is why? Such a
system already exists, called QSDS. It is a well-designed system that needs
only revision to make it compatible with FF&S2. Guy Garnett did excellent
work on this, and I'm sure, as he stated here, he would be more than
willing to assist you in updating it. I really like QSDS (more than FF&S2,
to be honest) and would like to see it remain.

> TSCS includes
> 1. Introduction.
> 2. Search Procedure
> 3. Space Combat Procedure.

HOPEFULLY without the rules about screening ships in a three-dimensional
volume of ships many thousands of kilometers across....I'm sorry, but that
just sticks in my craw :) (if it's a good system, I'm sure I can ignore
that part if it's in there, but the idea of "battle lines" in space just
bugs me......)
 
> Is there some requirement that all hulls of a form must be in specific
> dimension ratios?

Well, not really, other than compatibility with already published sources.
This is not a change that would bother me that much, as long as perhaps
suggestions were imparted as how to create different ratios if desired.

Allen

 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:42:59 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

At 10:29 am 9/27/97 -0400, CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-26 07:50:12 EDT, you write:
>
><< I did notice that the proportions he gave for the wedge hull were 1:1 
> height:width, whereas the FF&S2 one is 1:2.4:3.5 height:width:length...>>
>
>Is there some requirement that all hulls of a form must be in specific
>dimension ratios?
>

	There's nothing that says a ship _has_ to be a certain proportion BUT the
ratios do matter in the hull design. The dimension ratios _do_ change the
surface area and therefore the mass/volume taken up by the shell. A long
skinny cylinder will have less volume available for components than a
short, stout one of the same overall volume. For example, for a 10,000Td
cylinder with 10cm of armor (fairly thin), the short, stout cylinder (1:1)
loses 20Td to armor. On the other hand, a longer cylinder (3.5:1) loses
26Td to armor. Those six displacement tons certainly would affect the
design--that's a fairly decent size turret, or 3 small staterooms, or six
tons of cargo, etc. On the other hand, the longer cylinder has more surface
area for weapons, sensors, etc.

	BTW, I don't know where the FF&S2 wedge proportions came from ... that was
something that didn't get done! I'll come up with the equations and post
them this week.

	For those who are interested in differently-proportioned configurations
from those in FF&S2, I've posted the way I came up with the surface and
dimension factors at 

	www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Admiralty/Shipyard/FFSNotes/FFS2Notes.html

	That page also links to an Excel spreadsheet that lets you simply plug in
the proportions you want for any of the standard shapes and pop out the
exact modifiers. So if you want a cylinder that's 10 times as long as it is
wide (the longest right now is 3.5:1), go right ahead!
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1886
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 27 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1887



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Game Stores (was Re: Kill ff&s2)
Re: Grav Tanks (was Re: WW II Ogre tank)
Re: TNE Rules
The Traveller Language Project List
Re: The T4 Fist 
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Kill ff&s2
Re: Armour value question...
Re: The T4 Fist 
Re: Armour value question...
Re: WW II Ogre tank
Re: A gearhead/techie proposal
Re: TNE Rules
Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: The T4 Fist 
Re: The Piracy Threads (long)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:22:31 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Game Stores (was Re: Kill ff&s2)

Eric Nolan 
> Subject: RE: Kill ff&s2
> 
> >Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!. Most game stores won't
> carry
> >it.
> 
> I've seen a number of people say this, but I don't know of any shops
> that refuse to carry T4 on the basis of quality.

Good game stores do not order products on the basis of how good they
 are, they order products based on how many they expect to _sell_.  The
actual quality of a game line matters only to the extent that it affects
sales.

For example at the game stores I order games for I order a lot of Rifts
products not because I think Rifts is good but because I expect to sell
a lot of copies.  I order few copies of T4 materials because I expect to
sell few copies of T4 materials, this is based on sales for previous
Traveller 4 products.  If T4.1 is sufficiently better than T4 that I
will be able to truthfully reccommend it to people, we will sell out of
it faster, reorder more, and increase our orders for future products.

I will order a few more copies of GURPS Traveller than I have been
ordering for T4 or for Gurps products because I like the Gurps rules and
the Traveller setting.  Therefore I will like Gurps Traveller.  If I
like it I can sell more of it.  The fact that SJG has shown better
standards for editing their products will also help this product.

Game stores, or at least good ones, should [IMNSHO] try to meet the
needs and wants of their customers, not sell what they think is "good".

>  Similarly people say
> that the Foss artwork is rubbish, yet the vast majority of people I've
> shown T4 to (and that's quite a few) have liked the artwork.
> 
> Extrapolating your personal experience of perhaps only two or three
> shops to the entire market is something people do all the time.  It
> doesn't make it valid.  The only people who really know how T4 is
> selling are IG.

One of the paradigms of todays market (as I see it and as I have heard
mentioned by people in the industry) is that you only need to sell a few
thousand copies of your games in order to make some money at it.  The
writers may not be well paid, but if a game company - at least one
without excessive overhead, can sell a few thousand copies of a game the
publisher can make a (slight) profit and move on to the next product for
the line.

Sweetpea Entertainment is a movie company.  Movie companies need good
ideas for story concepts.  Travellers Third Imperium storyline _is_ a
good idea.  If Imperium Games needs to spend a small (by Hollywood
standards) ammount of money on the game to keep the flow of good ideas
going they will do so.  How long they can do so will depend on the size
of Courtney Solomans pockets (none of our business) and whether or not
the Traveller line has a slight negative cash flow or a slight positive
cash flow.

It is not just in Traveller the game that everything boils down to
economics.  Everything boils down to economics.

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:32:18 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Grav Tanks (was Re: WW II Ogre tank)

Joseph R. Dietrich wrote

> >Why?  Because you present yourself as a clear target to every bad    
> >guy within weapons range.  
> >   Think helicopter tactics...
> 
> Which brings up a point ... just why do grav tanks look like normal tanks
> anyway? [I mean in the illustrations, of course.] Look at the cover of
> FF&S, with those Trepida (sp?) grav tanks. Kewl looking, sure, but so are a
> lot of mecha. I have a hard time believing that a slab with a big turret on
> top is the best configuration for an airborne vehicle.
> 
> And its not just the Trepida -- look at 101 Vehicles by DGP, for example.

Those darn conservative Vilani architects strike again !

I suspect that the best design for a grav tank might resemble a somewhat
flattened (ie airframe hull) sphere.  The sphere will have less surface
area (which needs to be armored) for the size of its internal voulume. 
Grav Tanks with adequate power plants can make a pretty fair speed and
would be helped by airframe hulls.

This does start to bring up the question of where a grav tank ends and
where a heavy atmospheric fighter begins.

- --
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 97 14:26:06 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: TNE Rules

On 09/27/97 at 03:40 AM,  hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale) said:

>>  Also make sure to use the quick kill rule.  (If NPCs
>>take more damage to the head or chest than their con from one hit, they
>>are dead, PCs take double damage instead.  Personally I make it double
>>damage for everyone)

>   The Quick Kill rule in the TNE manual reads as follows:

>   Quick Kill: Any shot which hits the chest or head may constitute a
>killing shot.  Roll 1D20.  If the roll is less than or equal to the
>*damage value* of the shot, the target is instantly killed except on the
>roll of a 20 exactly.

>   Which means if you hit somebody in the head or chest with a gauss rifle
>that does 4D of damage, you would roll a D20 for quick kill and any roll
>of 1-4 would result in instant death.

Man!  I interpreted the Quick Kill rule differently from both of you. The
way I read it (and run it) is if the D20 is <= the *rolled* damage value of
the shot you get instant death (actually, instant
incapacitation and/or unconsciousness the way I play it).  I only used this
on edged and fired weapons.

This means that if you hit somebody in the head or chest with that gauss
rifle (4d6) and roll 14, the GM rolls a 1d20 and you get a "quick kill" on
a roll of *14* or less on that d20 (odds on a 4d weapon would range from
20% to 95% for instant kill).  Even a 1d6 Pop Gun to the chest has a
significant chance to instantly take the target down (5% to 30%). This
makes combat *very* deadly, and PC's are well advised to avoid it at *all*
costs.

Actually, I play it that "quick kill" translates to *automatic*
unconsciousness on a head shot and incapacitation, with a Difficult Task
(against CON) to remain conscious on chest shots.  Either leads to death
within CON+2d6 minutes unless medical care can stabilize the damage, a
Difficult or Formidable Task depending on the severity of the wound (GM
option).  This was my way of making the combat a little *less* deadly. I
never had a problem with TNE combat not being deadly enough. ;->

>   My thoughts on PC mortality: I am not running a campaign of "The A-Team
>RPG".  Use of bullets, in particular getting in the way of them if they
>are flying at supersonic speeds, increase the odds dramatically that you
>will have to roll a new character before the next gaming session.  If you
>do not like this reality, play the engineer who is always getting stuck
>back on the ship keeping the engine running.

I agree with you.  They are called *deadly* weapons for a good reason and
if the PC's get in their way too often...you get dead *very* fast. Doesn't
mean there won't be any combat, just that it better be *important* before
you pull out the gauss weapons, and you better remember the body armor,
helmet, and to get behind cover fast.

I'm using a modified T4 task system, but a lot of the rest of what I'm
using is my interpretations of CT/MT/TNE..with additional hunks from FGU's
Aftermath, FUDGE, GURPS, and others.  

As an aside for my PBEM player's...I still use the "quick kill" rules so be
careful with those guns.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 19:57:54 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: The Traveller Language Project List

The transition between servers and software is complete; it
appears that the TravLang list is functioning perfectly (though
I'm still waiting for the automagic maintenance documentation).
Most of the address problems that I encountered have been cleared
up.  There are, however, three addresses that are coming up as
invalid, either by username or by server.  Obviously, there are
also no forwarding addresses.  If you are one of the three people
who subscribed from the addresses listed below, and you are still
interested in reading the TravLang list, please contact me at
your convenience.  The addresses below are being removed from the
list directory effective immediately.

When I receive the instructions for automagic maintenance, I will
post them to the TravLang list.

The rejected addresses are:

	mark@text.bbic.com
	odysseus@novia.net
	Doctor.Vince@ix.netcom.com

Please note that this is _exactly_ how these addresses appear in
the lists; if any one of these is in fact typo-ed, let me know
and I will make the appropriate corrections.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:07:01 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: The T4 Fist 

At 06:46 PM 9/23/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Ken's quick fix tweak to this:
>
>Just looking at this briefly, I'd say reduce your hand damage to 1/2 
>die (1 to 3), leaving room for the extra damage done by knives, and 
>swords.
>
>This way, fists do .5D, knives and daggers do 1D, and swords do 2D.

Ummm... I did just see Kenneth advocate the use of a half-die, right?
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|----------------------------------------|
|      I am trying to find myself.       |
| If I should return before I come back, |
|        please ask me to wait.          |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:26:10 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

Doug Berry wrote:

>
>At 03:57 PM 9/26/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>What rules book are "Jump Projectors" in?  and do they have
>>"man-portable" versions?
>
>Sqquullippptttttt!!!!!!
>
><The sound of a mouthful of coke being expelled through my sinuses onto the
>screen>
>
>Gah!  Rod, I think FS has a new conceptual engineer canidate here...
>
>Jump Projectors are huge, spinal mount weapons.


	Hm... that would be kinda cute, though.  Someone annoys you, you
just point, click, and he goes away.. :)

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:04:07 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Kill ff&s2

At 01:30 AM 9/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 08:22 AM 9/26/97 EST, you wrote:

<snip informal poll of game retailers>

>Conclusion:  From the viewpoints of at least three sellers, T4 is a solid,
>middle of the road game system. 
>
>It occured to me that my perspective may be a bit warped.  I read dozens of
>msgs per day from what must be the Traveller Elite (sorry folks - that's
>what you are).  I assume that OF COURSE if there's a flaw in the vehicle
>generation charts of The Emporer's Motorcycles, every gamer will notice it.
>This doesn't seem to be the case.  Almost every TMLer will notice it.  Most
>*normal* gamers seem to use a supplement to pull equipment from for a game.
> Most (in my limited experience) don't study the stats to verify them.  Net
>result is that much of what I hear is broken/misguided/miscalculated about
>T4 on the TML is only important to a limited number of us (Oops - I mean
>you).  Most people - IMLE - take the canned vehicles/equipment and run...

As it has been said over and over.. gearheading is one possible part of
Traveller, not a mandatory part of the game.  Me, I like sweating out the
details of the ship, gun, planet I'm designing, and I find it to be a good
way to keep my game up between campigns.  If you don't enjoy designing
things, well, there are now three T4 books out that are nothing but
equipment lists.  Or, for those of us on the list, ask the gearheads to
design something for you.

I'm currently doing some design work for an upcoming supplement.  I know
that 95% of the readers will either have no use for the ships I'm building
or never bother to reverse engineer what I've done.  Fine, but it's for the
other 5% and my own sense of correctness that I'm sweating the numbers out.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:25:58 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Armour value question...

Doug Berry wrote:

>
>At 01:08 AM 9/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>	Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
>>FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?
>
>What kind?


	Generic planetary crust?

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:25:55 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: The T4 Fist 

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:46:07 +0000, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Just looking at this briefly, I'd say reduce your hand damage to 1/2 
> die (1 to 3), leaving room for the extra damage done by knives, and 
> swords.
> 
> This way, fists do .5D, knives and daggers do 1D, and swords do 2D.

What planet am I on?  Did Ken just advocate using 1/2 dice? :)



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:20:58 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Armour value question...

Bruce Johnson wrote:

>
>On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 	Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
>> FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?
>>
>
>Extrapolating from a 'stony body' planetoid hull, with a tougness of 0.71,
>that is 100 * 50,000 * 0.71 = 3.55e6.
>
>What, Hengabar have a new derringer he needs to try out on a suitable
>target? A man-portable black hole gun or somesuch?


	I am unable to comment at this time :).

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:09:56 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: WW II Ogre tank

Harold Hale wrote

> Mark writes:
> 
> >If battledress could be used in vacuum in lieu of a vaccsuit it had
> >better be waterproof.  Let the poor bloody infantry walk under, or use
> >gravbelts to hop the river.
> 
>    And when the infantry walk into the river, and the current carries
> them away, who writes the letters to their families?  A solution in some
> cases perhaps, but not always.

That is why grav belts are a better solution.  Given the fact that grav
belts (at a little over Cr 100,000) each are cheaper than Battle Dress
and add significantly to its operational flexability implies that Battle
Dress troops should usually have grav belts as well.

Battledress's strength augmentation, increased mass, and sensors should
make it easier to cross river bottoms in most cases.  The strength
augmentation and increased mass will make it harder for the current to
affect the wearer.  Battledress will also ensure that the occupent is
much less fatigued, since he will not be using his own strength to
cross. If the river bottom is muddy the increased weight may make it
somewhat harder to cross as the troop sinks in somewhat, however the
Battledress's sensors may reveal the mud & then a trained user should
know to go around the mud.

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 22:35:58 -0700
From: Nicholas Wright <xgr52@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: A gearhead/techie proposal

Glenn Myers asked:
> 
> What physical problems would the TML gearheads like to see computer modeled?
> 

I would like to see the design compacter modelled
What is the design compacter, Bob?

Well Howard, the design compacter is the cycle you have to go through 
once you have finished your vehicle design and you are evaluating through 
the stats for exact power to weight, top speed, armour rating etc. You 
find that if you just lose that little bit of cargo space that nobody 
will miss then the armour associated with it can also go which frees a 
bit of weight to allow the speed/accel/cruise into the next bracket.  
Then you find that the volume the armour took up is now surplus so that 
can go. Which frees some more armour. Which makes more power plant 
surplus. Removing that frees more space and so on.....   

Of course the amounts get smaller for each round of the cycle.  What I 
want to know is what is the limit so that I dont have to go round the 
cycle each time.  If I call the amount of slack at first 100 when I have 
got rid of the slack how much less will there be 115? 120? 150?

Well thanks for that explanation Bob and now the weather...


Nick Wright

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:42:15 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: TNE Rules

Harold Hale wrote

> Lewis Roberts writes:
> 
> >One of the more popular is to use d10 for damage dice instead of d6.
> >Many people complain that combat isn't lethal enough, with d10 it is
> fairly deadly.
> 
>    I use the D10 *only* for fire combat, since using D10 for fist fights
> tends to make them a bit too short and bloody.

But in real life (TM) a good martial artist can usually disable or kill
their opponent with 1 or (at most) 2 good blows if that is their
objective.  Maybe fist fights _should_ be short & bloody.  If you
disagree or are modeling a different paradigm that is also a perfectly
valid perspective, but is perhaps not as "realistic".

>    My thoughts on PC mortality: I am not running a campaign of "The
> A-Team RPG".  Use of bullets, in particular getting in the way of them
> if they are flying at supersonic speeds, increase the odds dramatically
> that you will have to roll a new character before the next gaming
> session.

_Very_  nicely said, Harold.  This is one of the things I like about
Traveller.

>  If you do not like this reality, play the engineer who is
> always getting stuck back on the ship keeping the engine running.

As the former player of an former Scout engineer charecter who (in MT)
interrupted a bank robbery by about 8 people with shotguns by throwing
her Frisbee at one of them I would like to strongly protest the notion
that the engineer is always stuck keeping the engine running.  (The ref
decided that base dammage for my sharp edged frisbee was 0.5 dammage
point.  My roll was 8 points over the to hit value, so she did 8x
dammage.  The 4d dammage killed the bank robber.)  She took out 1 or 2
more by using her Telekinesis to rip the shotgun out of one of the
robbers hands & shooting him with it.  Fortunately the robbers had
already destroyed the cameras, the hostages were face down & did not see
this & the few bank robbers who might have ratted her out as psionic
ended up witha bad case of dead or she might have been in trouble. (CT
setting in 1083) and her distraction allowed the 2 party members caught
in the bank (including the Str D Vargr Imperial Marine w/ Infighting) to
take out some of the other bank robbers.  I'll admit that it was
incredibly stupid and that she was lucky to survive the 12 dice she took
from the aimed point blank shotgun blast (she had just come from the
nearby beach & a bathing suit did not provide much armor protection...)
in round 4 but it was in charecter.

IMNSHO you just need a more warped player playing the engineer :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:24:02 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote

> David P. Summers writes:
> >>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen 
> >>You're forgetting the most crucial difference between a navy ship and a
> >>pirate/corsair: The navy is paid to fight, the pirate only fights to get
> >>paid. In other words, pirates don't like fair fights... or any fight that
> >>may impose repair bills greater than the potential gain.

> Have you ever played a TCS campaign? Did you put out scouts in every system
> you owned (and a lot you didn't)? Did you put pickets in all your systems?
> I did. And I _claim_ that anyone with a bit of sense would do the same.
> Those pickets might as well earn their keep by taking care of any passing
> pirates.
> 
> Provided, of course, that there are enough assets to supply enough picket
> ships. 
> Why wouldn't trade want it? Piracy is bad. It's an unexpected expense that
> can really mess up your financial statements. Getting rid of it is good for
> everybody

But pirates are more likely to attack smaller ships.  Smaller ships are,
ceteris parabus, weaker & less able to defend themselves.  (they are
also less valuable but pirates are not interested in fair fights they
are interested in easy money)  Therefore pirates will attck smaller
ships more.  MegaCorporations have big (or very big ) ships in most
cases (economies of scale & all that).  THerefore pirates hurt small
merchants the most.

Maybe this is why pirates still exist in Traveller.  The MegaCorps have
pressured the Imperial government away from dealing with pirates so the
pirates will weaken the competative ability of the smaller companies.

When the Corps lobby the Imperial government they are using the line
that the navy needs big ships to fight off the Zhos & these ships need
to be concentrated rather then spread out (to avoid defeat in detail). 
Coincidently this will mean fewer ships to stop pirates. They might even
argue that the Imperial Navy should concentrate on the job of preparing
to fight enemy states & let the sector & subsector fleets take care of
the pirates.  Then the MegaCorps go to the Sector & subsector
governmnets & pressure them not to patrol very much either.  The actual
members of the Navy are presumably as anti pirate as anyone else & may
deter some piracy by shooting pirates ships who won't stand too for a
customs inspection.  (the old "shot while resisting arrest" bit so
popular with certani police forces....)

The big corporations can then use the (too slight to involve the
government but scary to individuals) threat of pirates to encourage
passengers to take their ships rather than tramp starships.  Since their
ships will be bigger and (possibly) more comfortable anyway most
passengers won't take much convincing.  A line in thier ships brochures
or ads saying something like "travel in comfort & safety" would probably
do it.

This may be why their are pirates in Traveller - The MegaCorps hinder
the effort to stop them for their own reasons.  As long as the pirates
do not kill or rob very many nobles they may continue to get away with
their nefarious trade.

- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:42:22 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

Call me a weapons-monger but I'm always looking for new ways to "vape"
the enemy.  :)

At what tech level would man-portable Jump-Rifles become feasible?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: The T4 Fist 

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Kenneth Bearden wrote:

> Ken's quick fix tweak to this:
> 
> Just looking at this briefly, I'd say reduce your hand damage to 1/2 
> die (1 to 3), leaving room for the extra damage done by knives, and 
> swords.
> 
> This way, fists do .5D, knives and daggers do 1D, and swords do 2D.
> 
> Kenneth. 
> 

I can die now.

Ken is supporting 1/2 die rolls...  ;)

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: The Piracy Threads (long)

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> Agreed, unless he had the option of going to another jurisdiction. One that
> wouldn't care that the ship was hijacked.

I've always thought that one of the reasons a ship might be hijacked while
the PC's are on it was because of a 'repo' team - but that is fodder for
another thread...

> >Also, what are the motivations?  Someone who has a purpose may not be
> >interested in cashing in the ship.  Perhaps the charactor has a grudge
> >against a specific company or world or whatever, and is only hunting their
> >ships?  There are many examples of fanatics (unfortunately) that we can
> >use to illustrate this.
> 
> Yes, but he still has to pay his bills. The operation has to keep in the
> black. That is one of the fundamental differences between the public and
> the private warship.

If the piracy actions are but a single facet of an overall terrorist
campaign, then the action _does_not_ have to be profitable.  

> 
> >Or perhaps our corsair has the equivalent of a letter of marque...Just
> >because two worlds (or corporations) are members of the Imperium doesn't
> >mean that they have to like each other.  While a 'hot war' may not be
> >permitted, 'black' actions such as preying on each others merchant traffic
> >may be overlooked.
> 
> Ah, no... Black operations may be winked at, but they would still be
> illegal. There's no such thing as a Letter of Marque unless you are 
> actually at war.

I'll not argue the point about the Letter of Marque, because technically
you are correct.  I was just trying to make the point about a
quasi-legitimacy given to a corporate raider or a planetary operative.
(Not very well made, tho'!  :)

However, corporate/planetary support would give a corsair a number of
advantages

- - a base to operate from/return to
- - a form of legitimacy (until caught anyway...)
- - a source of trusted, trained personnel to draw from

In some ways, I would prefer raiders that need to draw their operating
funds from the merchants they prey on.  Corporate/Planetary support means
they don't have to worry about the damage they cause...

> >For everyone else, the ships must be imported.
> 
> Not at all. They can be sent from the neighboring system. All maintenance
> and repair can be performed at the home port. That's how the US keeps
> ships in the oceans of the world that dosen't adjoin her.

(Since I've hand my hand slapped a few times for going on about the U.S.
military, I'll avoid the subject... ;)

By definition, Class A build Jump-capable ships, Class B build non-Jump
capable.  Annual maintenance of starships must be performed at Class A or
B starports.  (I have my own beliefs about this, but they are best
discussed in a 'starport' thread...anyone want to start one?)

So, for pure system defense, a SDB must be built at a Class A or B
starport, then ferried to the Class C,D or E system it will be based in.
Once there, it must be ferried _back_ to the Class A or B starport
(probably the same one it was built at) for maintenance.  (How often does
a _non-jump_ spacecraft need maintenance?  Annually?  Every 5 years?  My
campaign house rules allow for non-jump ships to be serviced by tenders,
and only need starport facilities for repair.)

> 
> >The maintenance and repair facilities for these ships will have to be
> >imported.  The personnel manning these ships will very likely have to be
> >imported. (Can you say mercenaries?) But, it really comes down to, it's
> >not how many ships can a system support, but how many ships can the sector
> >starports turn out?
> 
> And the average answer is roughly 5 trillion credit squadrons per billion 
> people living in the sector. That's what I've been trying to get across. 

And how much does a BatRon of Tigress-class dreadnaughts cost?  A BatRon
of Plankwells?   Alas, I no longer have a copy of 'Fighting Ships'...

> 
> >There is also the matter of the composition of the Navy.  While 1,000 dTon
> >ships and smaller are ideal for custom patrols and anti-piracy work, they
> >tend to get chewed up and spit out in major fleet engagements.
> 
> All navies I've heard of have had ships of various sizes for various jobs.
> Ships of customs and anti-piracy work size are also ideal for pickets. 

Generally the smaller ships do it.  (FF,DD and CGs) In the Traveller
universe, I would tend to believe it will be ships under 5,000 tons.

> >Larger ships, while fitting into the mission of the Imperial Navy, tend to 
> >be impractical for serious piracy suppression.  (I'd run, wouldn't you?)
> 
> I'd run from a patrol ship too. And that's all you need to suppress piracy.
> A pirate has to pay his bills. If he has to run he can't capture, if he
> can't capture he can't gain loot, and if he can't loot he has to go
> bankrupt or turn to honest work.

I'd tend to run if _anything_ was in the area.

> 
> >Resoure allocation will be a concern - no matter which era your campaign
> >plays in.  As long as piracy is a minor concern, keeping in mind that a
> >1:36 misjump chance is considered acceptable, 
> 
> Come on, you can't be serious. You couldn't run an interstellar civilization
> if there really were a 1 in 36 chance of a misjump every time.

Actually, no.  I play 'house rules' for jump.  I try and debate with the 
baseline being the 'canon' universe, unless I am trying to change 'canon'.

> 
> >How much of your resources are you going to throw at it?  Every ship that a 
> >Class C, D, or E system has to buy is credit that flows _out_ of the system. 
> 
> Every ship a class A or B system build is a loss of resources too. The two
> situations are very alike, except that the loss is slightly bigger for the
> C, D, and E systems, but not that much bigger. If you want to be able to
> defend your system, you need either ships or a friendly ally with ships.
> In any case, once you have the ships, you may as well get some use out of
> them. 

With the Class 'A' and 'B' ports, the sale of the ship will result in the
influx of credit.  That credit will support the infrastructure, increase
the standard of living, support the corporations, etc.  With 'C', 'D', and
'E', the credit will flow in the opposite direction.  Economic resources
is what I was referring to.

> 
> >Every person that mans and/or maintains the ships are skill sets that are 
> >not being used to generate credit either in the industrial base, 
> 
> And so is every person that mans and/or maintains the ships of the class A
> and B systems. 

Again, in the class 'A' and 'B' systems, the infrastructure to produce and
maintain the ships, as well as to educate and train the personnel to man
those ships is in place.  For the Class 'C', 'D' and 'E' systems, this is
not necessarily true.  So it will be more expensive to train them in the
first place.

A good example of this occurred in WWII, the Pacific campaign.  US pilots
were rotated out of the theater after a number missions.  They returned to
the US and trained other pilots.  Thus, their experience was passed on the
the new pilots, and they were better prepared for what they would face
when they hit combat.  The Japanese, however, even tho' their pilots were
initially better trained than US pilots, did not rotate pilots out of
combat.  As the war continued, attrition depleted the number of pilots
available, and the replacements were not nearly as good. 

(sigh - I did it again...please don't hit my hand too hard this time...)

Class 'A' and 'B' systems are going to be able to draw from a pool of
experience, and will have the resources to pass on experience to new
generations.  Class 'C', 'D', and 'E' ports will not have the resources to
pass on that experience as effectively. 

>  
> >Finally, the discussion has focussed concentration of forces around the
> >mainworld.  What about the rest?  Admittedly, the bulk of traffic will be
> >going to the system mainworld, but there is no reason why a merchant could
> >not be chartered to deliver to one of the other worlds in the system
> >instead, or to a space station somewhere in the system. 
> 
> Yes, and there is no reason why patrol ships can't keep a system like that
> free of pirates. 'In space there is no place to hide!' (Which is not
> entirely true... the correct expression is 'In space there is no place to
> hide except a hell of a long way away from sensors and with your engines
> turned waaaay down!', but it dosen't have the same snap ;-)
> 
> I'm not saying you can't hide in space, but I do say that you can't hide
> close to a traffic lane. Remember, all merchants are required to use
> transponders. That means there is no reason why they shouldn't use
> active sensors (especially so for those on regular scheduled flights).
> 
> All it takes to keep a star system free of pirates is enough ships to do
> it. So the question remains: Will there be enough ships to do it? And my
> answer is: Definitely yes.
> 
> >And, as I have pointed out in other posts, intra-system traffic is an 
> >excellent source of income for the serious corsair - even (or especially) 
> >in systems with Class A and B starports.
> 
> BTW. have you considered that a lot of intra-system traffic will be
> conducted by jump ships?

Yep, but only where the intra-system jump is significantly shorter than
the travel time through normal space.  A normal space freighter can make
the passage with twice the cargo that a jump-space freigher can.


Hans, 

You have made many good points.  I think the core of our disagreement lays
in the use of capital ships for anti-piracy and customs work, the number
of small ships available to any system, and the access that 'C', 'D' and
'E' systems will have to these ships.

Do you agree that corsairs (a career option available through much of
travellers existance) can exist if:

1) Supported by a private corporation and/or world government
2) Supported by a terrorist organisation

or 

3) Operates from outside established imperial borders, raiding into
Imperial space?

Note that I am not saying makes a profit here...just exists?

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1887
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 27 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1888



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Survival Pod Inventory
Re: Jump Projectors
Dumber than me!
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Sqquullippptttttt!!!!!!
Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...
T4 Health
Re: TNE Rules
Amen!
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
1d fists, 1d knives...
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1884
Thermonuclear fusion question...
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1884
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1886
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1886
Re: Armour value question...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:59:54 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

Sorry to make you sputz your coke there..:)  I just like devising new
methods for dealing damage.  I currently have 119 pages of different
types of weapons I've collected stats on over the years, from movies,
books, games, etc.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 17:54:15 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Survival Pod Inventory

Kenneth,

I hope this is what you needed. If not let me know!

I have included a list of items/equipment that the Imperial Scouts'
Starship Inspection Service (much akin to the Coast Guard) would require
for all ships operating within the Imperium.

A minimum of one five-person LifePod for every five individuals aboard
(counting passengers and crew). Each LifePod is a self-contained 28-day
survival package designed to provide vaccum and atmospheric reentry
protection automatically deploying an altimeter released parachute. The
LifePod can also float and can be used as a shelter. It has a built-in
long-range communicator/transponder, basic life support sensor package,
air-conditioning/heating/air filteration system and portable chemical
toilet all powered by a removable portable mini-fusion power generator
along with an outside-deployable solar panel array. Five
fold-up/lock-down gravity couches with safety harnesses are standard and
function as sleeping beds. The oxygen scrubber system can recycle oxygen
and water for up to 2-weeks at which time the consumables kick in.

The LifePod has various lockers and containment areas for the following
equipment and supplies:

1 inerial locator/compass
5 flash lights with extra batteries
5 sleeping bags
5 emergency vacuum suits with bubble hard helmets
20 portable oxygen canisters for use with and without vac suits
70 two-liter containers of drinking water
140 units of survival rations with multi-purpose vitamines
2 fire extinguishers
2 large pump-type water purification devices
Portable video playback unit with complete library of survival and 
	medical reference literature and extra batteries
Pioneering Tool Kit consisting a digging tool, crowbar, dual-purpose 	
axe, hammer, screw driver set, adjustable wrench set, plier set, 
	wire cutters, hacksaw, power drill with assorted bits, assorted
	nails, screws, bolts, 50-foot heavy wire, 50-foot heavy nylon 		cord,
50-foot fishing line, 50-foot sewing thread, assorted
	needles, 50-foot heavy duct tape, multi-pack of super-glue
Wilderness Survival Kit containing 2 survival knifes, 10 snap flares, 
	2 survival machettes, 100 waterproof matches, sharpening tool, 		50
fuel tabs, assorted storage bags, fishing kit, insect 	repellant,
individual toilet sanation kits, 
First Aid Kit containing assorted bandages, scaples, wound seuter kit, 
	100 general purpose antibiotic tabs, 100 analgesic tabs, 
	Snake bite kit, 10 tubes of antiseptic cream, inflatable
	splints (for broken legs & arms), antiseptic soap, burn kit
50-foot Nylon Climbing Rope with fold-up grappling hook
1 standard autorifle with 100-rounds of ammunition
5 smoke grenades
1 radiation dosimeter with alarm
5 medium field packs

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:53:32 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

Douglas E. Berry wrote
> Subject: Re: Jump Projectors
> 
> At 03:57 PM 9/26/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >What rules book are "Jump Projectors" in?  and do they have
> >"man-portable" versions?

Jump projectors are part of the MegaTraveller ship design sequence in
the MT Referees book.  Since they are about TL 19 or 20 they have not
been reprinted since (presumably they were reguarded as a waste of space
- - albeit a cool waste of sppace).
> 
> Sqquullippptttttt!!!!!!
> 
> <The sound of a mouthful of coke being expelled through my sinuses onto the
> screen>
> 
> Gah!  Rod, I think FS has a new conceptual engineer canidate here...
> 
> Jump Projectors are huge, spinal mount weapons.

Hey Rod, can I be a FS conceptual engineer candidate for designing the
man portable TL 15 Meson Gun using FF&S1 ?

Has anyone tried to design a man portable Meson gun using FF&S2 ?  Can
it still be done or has that bug (er feature) been eliminated ?  


- -- 
 pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:15:13 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Dumber than me!

Ok, so I misinterpreted Marc's post. I'd have expected a resounding chorus
of, 'Idiot! What Marc meant was....'

But no!  Several people have raised hands and said 'me, too!'

While it's interesting to see how many of us have bought the supplements in
question, I feel rather silly to have all these people responding to my
post, when I was completely out in the left field with one less than a full
deck in my sandwich box at the time.... (huh?).

But anyway: We've made ourselves known - the people who not only bought
both FS and M0 but want to boast about it. Marc said it's OK to post the
extra data to the list - or maybe just send it direct to those who've waved
their hands about. When are we going to see it? Who's going to post it? 

(eager anticipation....)

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 19:12:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

>Sombody said that on the IG products page, there is a reference to the
>Varge.  Whoever wrote that should be shot.  Whoever is in charge of the
>website should be shot.  This is the type of thing that is hurting their
>reputation.

Yes, I've seen it, too.  It is what many people call a typo.  As soon as I
saw it, I realized that millions of people make that same mistake every day.
 Yes, there is, horror of horrors, a typo on their webpage.

Just think about how angry you appear to be over that, and tell me, aren't
you being just a tiny bit anal and nitpicky?

Don't get me wrong, if I was the webpage designer contracted to design the
page, I'd try not to let that happen.  I'd double check my work.  However,
chances are, the guys who made the webpage weren't Traveller players.
 Someone slips with a finger, types "e" instead of "r", and then when
checking the page isn't versed enough in Traveller to pick up on the mistake
immediately.

I just don't see the anger about this...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:07:50 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Sqquullippptttttt!!!!!!

Douglas E, Berry wrote:

>Sqquullippptttttt!!!!!!

><The sound of a mouthful of coke being expelled through my sinuses onto
the
screen>

>Gah!  Rod, I think FS has a new conceptual engineer canidate here...

And caused me serious internal injuries due to humor-related rib movement.
(actually the original question had a similar effect on me.)

I agree with most of Douglas' comments. Especially about IG slowing down
their breakneck pace in favour of some proofing. I know it's important to
keep the products coming, but more so to make them as good as possible.
Taking an extra few weeks won'y t hurt, and perhaps momentum could be
maintained by allowing licensed products? 

As for games shops: I'd support a decent shop, but my 'local' store is
difficult to get to, stocks nothing I want to see, and besides - how could
I hang around there talking to friends about RPGs? I have no friends
(unless you count those poor saps who turn up to be tormented every
wednesday night) - why do you think I feel the need to correspond with you
lot?  {end tongue-in-cheek mode}

'In space there are not very many ways to hide, and none of them are
particularly effective, 
so we rely upon deception instead'. Not catchy, but in my opinion, true.

Martin

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 19:25:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...

>Are you serious?  Traveller actually had an item called "Vargr Chew
>Toys"?  If so, I'm laughing...

Well, not really.  I was just using a humorous example there.  In fact,
though, now that I think about it, I didn't come up with that on my own.  It
was from the rumors section of "Milieu: 0".  

So, yes.  Vargr Chew toys are in Traveller :)

>As to GURPS-Traveller, I'll pass.  I don't like the Gurps style role
>playing system in the least.

Yes, as far as the rules go, I'm not sold on GURPS.  However, background-wise
it'll probably be excellent, and I'm sure I'll buy it.

>As to the equations in FFS2 being incorrect, I'm one of those guys who
>needs them to be correct.  I'm not enough of a mathematician to be able
>to "correct" IG's mistakes.  But you give me the equations correctly,
>and an example of how to compute them, and I've got no problems at all.
>I'll probably end up writing a computer program to do it for me based on
>inputs or random numbers.  :)

Well, the major mistake throughout the book is that all of the multiplication
signs ( * ) have been replaced with arrows and stuff ( <-> ).  It makes the
equations ugly and initially confusing...  But, all in all, its not that
tough to substitute a multiplication symbol for a funky arrow combination.

Granted, its somewhat unprofessional and all, and it is a shame that they
didn't do their homework and allow playtests, and didn't proof their work,
and etc etc...  But its done now, the book is usable with some clarifications
and such...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 18:33:59 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: T4 Health

Bill Rutherford wrote:
> Pfui.  This morning, while running *errands* to gameshops (a day off from
> work is a good thing...) I asked each shopkeeper about T4 sales.  The three
> shops I visited didn't claim GREAT sales, but all said that a) they stock
> all new T4 items because they DO sell, b) their response as to game quality
> is average - that is, T4 doesn't seem to be the game to beat, but it DOES
> sell consistently (not only on initial order, but on restocks as well), and
> c) after being asked specifically about gear-head topics (i.e., those you'd
> only address after reading FF&S2 from cover to cover), they said they heard
> nothing in the way of complaints (or comments or anything else...) - out of
> the ordinary - about them. Apparently, The Deadlands recently caused quite
> a stir in a good way, while a couple of others garnered bad feedback.
> Conclusion:  From the viewpoints of at least three sellers, T4 is a solid,
> middle of the road game system.

This post makes me think of checking the health of Traveller--the status
of its three physical stats and hit points, if you will--with our local
game shops.

What do you guys think of this?  The next time you are in your game
store, ask some similar questions that Bill has asked here.  Then, come
back and report to us on the TML.

This way, we'll all get a feel for our game and how it is selling.

List the questions you asked, the comments made by the people who work
there, and where you live.

Anybody else wanting to get a picture of how Traveller is selling to the
world?

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 18:46:53 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: TNE Rules

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Man!  I interpreted the Quick Kill rule differently from both of you. The
> way I read it (and run it) is if the D20 is <= the *rolled* damage value of
> the shot you get instant death (actually, instant
> incapacitation and/or unconsciousness the way I play it).  I only used this
> on edged and fired weapons.
> 
> This means that if you hit somebody in the head or chest with that gauss
> rifle (4d6) and roll 14, the GM rolls a 1d20 and you get a "quick kill" on
> a roll of *14* or less on that d20 (odds on a 4d weapon would range from
> 20% to 95% for instant kill).  Even a 1d6 Pop Gun to the chest has a
> significant chance to instantly take the target down (5% to 30%). This
> makes combat *very* deadly, and PC's are well advised to avoid it at *all*
> costs.

I read the rule like Eris did.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 18:42:12 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Amen!

Douglas E. Berry wrote:

> I would love to have Tim Brown or Courtney discuss several things with us
> about IG's business end..

That would be a truly enjoyable post to read.

Maybe we can set up a TML interview?  People take a week to write in
questions, a few are picked, and we send them to Courtney, Marc, or
Tim.  

Then they reply, and we all get to read the interview.

> They need to slow down.  Get T4.1 done *correctly* (as bug-free as humanly
> possible) and then start giving writers time to properly playtest their
> submissions.  Setting up a secure playtest system would be helpful.

AMEN!!!

This is incredibly important.  I have very high hopes for T4.1 judging
from what I've seen here on the list.

People are bitching about the screwed up typsetting in FF&S2, or the
screwed up data in FS.  These types of dead-head mistakes need to be
eliminated.

Because, if you get down to it, the IG MATERIAL is pretty good.  It's
the presentation that is completely lacking.

> We snipe, because we all love the game, but we all love it for slightly
> different reasons.

This is one of the truest things you've ever said, Douglas.

The reason we sift through a hundred plus e-mails a day is because we
love the game.  It is a passion for us.

We want to see it be worthy of that passion, and we are very
dissapointed when we are, uh, er, disappointed.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:11:50 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

David J. Golden wrote:

> At 10:29 am 9/27/97 -0400, CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
> >In a message dated 97-09-26 07:50:12 EDT, you write:
>         For those who are interested in differently-proportioned configurations
> from those in FF&S2, I've posted the way I came up with the surface and
> dimension factors at
>
>         www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Admiralty/Shipyard/FFSNotes/FFS2Notes.html
>
>         That page also links to an Excel spreadsheet that lets you simply plug in
> the proportions you want for any of the standard shapes and pop out the
> exact modifiers. So if you want a cylinder that's 10 times as long as it is
> wide (the longest right now is 3.5:1), go right ahead!
> -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
>    goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
>     *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***
>
>  "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
>   enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
>   a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

Dave,
(rant on)
Once more you've provided proof of the health of this game. As long as people are
interested in expanding it's horizons, officially or unofficially, and also willing to
share the fruits of that labor, IT WILL NOT DIE!

Sorry about that but I'm soooo tired of every couple of weeks reading on this list that
Traveller is about to dry up and blow away. It the people doing the loudest crying would
put half that effort to making it better, as you and many others have, well...
(rant off)
At any rate thanks for the insight and the link, I'm on my way there now...

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:52:24 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: 1d fists, 1d knives...

	It occurs to me that the way around the discrepancy that's forced
Ken to advocate using a half-die is due to the fact that in Traveller,
damage seems to be treated in a very abstract way.  Damage is damage,
whether it's done by blunt trauma (fists) or by penetrating trauma (knives,
guns, etc), or by ludicrous amounts of radiation (lasers, plasma guns, etc).

	One of the reasons that I like Glenn's Hit Location Table so much
is that it allows a ref with a bit of common sense to take this into
account in narrating.

	Perhaps the problem isn't so much that Trav combat poorly models
_amount_ of damage but that it totally ignores _types_ of damage?

	Comments?

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:41:34 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1884

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:08:24 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:48:14 +0100
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1880
>

>>As I've said before, PE and TLWH are the last IG products I will buy. IG has
>>lost me as a customer and is unlikely to ever pick me up again -- and that's
>>pretty much the case for all the GMs in the group I belong to ...

Note that I said "unlikely" rather than "when hell freezes over" or some such!
Yes, I can conceive of how IG would pick me up as a customer again -- but since,
as I've said, it would involve them --

1) Getting a clue
2) Showing a commitment to quality rather than deadlines
3) Showing some evidence of *learning* from their mistakes
4) Producing a quality product

and there is, as I am sure we are all aware, less than a snowball's chance in
hell of this, then I am fairly safe in saying that it is never going to happen.

I suppose that it is just *barely* possible that a successful GURPSTrav will
give someone at Sweetpea the kick in the head/guts/nether regions that they need
to fire everyone at IG and replace them with competent staff, including line
editors, and to put in the capital needed to produce a quality product ... but
they haven't shown any sign of getting a clue so far, so why should we assume
that they ever will?

>I own FFS2, and am not particularly gearhead (I owned the previous FFS and
>didn't use it). The equations are not a problem. The missing tables are
>more of a problem.

I could handle the maths behind FF&S and, I am sure, if I really cared enough, I
could handle the maths behind FF&S2. But I won't *ever* knowingly buy a product
that has missing tables (or anything else of importance) from IG again. Ever.
I've been burnt once too often -- and I suspect that there are lot of players
and GMs out there, perhaps not on this list, who feel exactly the same way.

>>Nope. The sooner IG dies -- or their backers get a clue -- the better.
>
>So are you saying that even if the IG material improves you are not going
>to buy any new IG material? That's your call, but why not listen to the
>reviews, or even look at the products in the store before you decide?

See above.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:00:41 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Thermonuclear fusion question...

	Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules
worth of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of
liquid hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:53:25 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1884

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:08:24 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:10:02 +0100
>From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Traveller - dying or not?

>But most importantly - look at what Marc's done for us recently. He didn't
>have to do that (and might have made a few more sales of the M0 campaign if
>he hadn't) - don't you think it's a rather poor show (very British. Sorry.)
>when some of us respond by saying 'hey, IG is dying!' 

It is self-evidently self destructing. Look at all the new startup companies
that have produced products within the last 12 months or so and compare the
quality of their products with that of IG's. Companies like Biohazard Games
(Blue Planet), Myrmidon Games (Witchcraft), Daedalus (Feng Shui), Alderac
(Legend of the Five Rings), BTRC (3G3 etc.) and more. These companies have
produced a quality product, and (one expects) will continue to do so. What has
IG done? They have produced a very marginal product from day one -- it doesn't
matter *why* they have done this, the fact is that they have. Even a more or
less complete staff replacement has done nothing to change this -- in some ways
their incompetence has even gotten worse (they took a perfectly good effort on
the part of BITS, TLWH and Gateway, and managed to stuff it up because they
couldn't be bothered to FedEx proofs to Andy Lilly et al).

What I find so amazing is that more people aren't putting the boot into IG and
letting them know that they find their products unacceptable, their competence a
joke, and telling them that unless they get their act together they *will*
boycott their future products. Otherwise you are saying, "Oh well, its Ok if you
produce substandard products, because I'm going to buy anything you do, no
matter how badly done."

>T4 is the best shot at a 'definitive' Traveller we'll ever see. The bad
>bits are fixable and the good bits are great. Why, then, all the sniping?
>There's never going to be a better Traveller (I suspect that if IG goes
>then there'll be NO more Traveller.)

No. GURPSTrav will be a success. Lots of people will buy it. It may never become
the definitive Traveller, but it *will* prove to Sweetpea (or whoever Sweatpea
sell the license to, if they decide that IG's demise is a sign that Traveller is
a dead dog) that there *is* a market for a well done standalone system ...
assuming that they can get a competent and well-financed team to do it.

>Can we try to be a little more supportive, please?

That's like never speaking ill of the dead just because they are dead. IG is a
joke, and unless it is forcibly made plain to them that they have to lift their
game, and *RIGHT NOW*, or they will go under, then we are doing no-one a favour.

Phil

- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:16:43 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1886

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:02:41 -0400, you wrote:

>Phil,
>
>I do understand your reasons.  IG has made some mistakes, and some say,
>"continue to make."
>
>But, there's one thing for you to consider.  Marc is taking care of
>those people, like me and you, who bought First Survey and Milieu 0
>first editions.
>
>He's going to make the added information available ON THIS LIST!
>
>C'mon.  You've got to give him credit for that.  It's an incredible
>move--one that you wouldn't expect from a game company.  

Of course, being cynical, one could point out that few or no other game
companies would *NEED* to do this. The startup companies I have mentioned
previously *GOT IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME*.

Sure, its OK that Marc is doing this. But you are missing the point that it
should *NEVER* have been necessary. EVER.

>Doesn't Marc and IG deserve some slack for this?

If there was some evidence -- *ANY* evidence -- they have got their act
together, yes. There is none to date. NONE. Every single product they have done
has had fairly major (tho, in some cases, ones you could [barely] live with)
flaws in layout, typesetting, errata, and missing material. EVERY ONE.

>I'm not saying to give them any slack just because.  I'm saying I think
>Marc & Co. has EARNED some slack because of this.
>
>It looks to me like they are trying.

That's where we differ. I think *Marc* is trying -- and his efforts are being
ruined by the people at IG/Sweetpea (or whoever is responsible).

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:12:31 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1886

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:02:41 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:24:34 +0000
>From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
>
>>Phillip McGregor wrote:

>And, I admit, it is taking them some time to learn the lesson.
>
>My hope is that IG will get its act together.

It's actually *my* hope as well, I just am not as optimistic as you and many
others are.

>I remember the first time I opened an AD&D supplement (I was a very avid
>player of that game, but I haven't played in about 5 years--having
>completed a 5 year campaign) and saw the whole document looking like
>parchment paper.
>
>There were neat drawings that took your imagination away, the cover
>related to the contents, and the whole thing just spoke of atmosphere
>and quality.

>I've never had a problem with D&D's quality.  They've had their flops,
>sure, but they were few and far between, at least in my opinion.
>
>I'd like to see IG's supplements reach this level.  They are not there
>yet, but I do see them trying.

Yes. That's what I'd like to see -- however, I do *not* see that IG is trying.
Their stuff is just as badly typo ridden now as it was when T4 1st Edition came
out over a year ago.

>After you get past all of that outer, marketing stuff, the quality of IG
>stuff is pretty good.  I just finished reading Psionics Institutes, and
>I'm going to have no problem converting some of the things in that book
>to my 1100's campaign.

True, to a degree. But I still won't knowingly buy products that have major
typographical and layout flaws in them. Ever. I've been burnt too many times,
and pretty much all of them by GDW (I have the infamous 1st printing of T:2300
- -- the one where your character starts out with a 50% chance of being dead [with
0 Hit Poijts] or severely wounded [with 1 HP] because of incompetent
proofreading; not to mention 1st printing of MTrav!!!) and IG.

>The point is the MATERIAL in IG products is pretty good.  They just need
>to focus on making their stuff look better, especially after you open
>the cover, and focus on the typos and printing errors.

Exactly!

>Sombody said that on the IG products page, there is a reference to the
>Varge.  Whoever wrote that should be shot.  Whoever is in charge of the
>website should be shot.  This is the type of thing that is hurting their
>reputation.

Agree 100%. Its a sign of their completely unprofessional approach.

>They've got a great role model in which to base IG product--old DGP
>material.  They should use it.  
>
>DGP stuff wasn't that fancy, but even compared to IG's stuff today, DGP
>stuff LOOKS like it blows it away.  Those old DGP things always had
>neat, very Traverllish art, very few typos, nice deckplans and system
>maps, and incredible sector and subsector maps.

True

>I'd like to see IG get to this quality.

Agree 100%

>I'm sticking in there.  I believe they will.

I'd like to think they will -- but can see absolutely no evidence of it. In the
meantime, I'm ditching IG as I said.

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:11:54 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Armour value question...

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

> Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
> >
> >On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>      Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
> >> FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?
> >>
> >
> >Extrapolating from a 'stony body' planetoid hull, with a tougness of 0.71,
> >that is 100 * 50,000 * 0.71 = 3.55e6.
> >
> >What, Hengabar have a new derringer he needs to try out on a suitable
> >target? A man-portable black hole gun or somesuch?
>
>         I am unable to comment at this time :).
>
> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

> Doug Berry wrote:
>
> >
> >At 01:08 AM 9/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>      Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
> >>FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?
> >
> >What kind?
>
>
>         Generic planetary crust?
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Roderick Darroch Elliott
>
Be afraid! Be VERY afraid!!!!!

Mike
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1888
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 28 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1889



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

T4.1 ETA?
Mapping program...DOS
Rumor or fact??
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1887
Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: TNE Rules and .5d
Re: 1d fists, 1d knives...
Re: T4.1 ETA?
Re: The T4 Fist 
Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...
Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...
Re: 1d fists, 1d knives...
Re: TNE Rules
Re: TNE Rules
Re: Questions about Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:22:40 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: T4.1 ETA?

Couple of questions about T4 and T4.1..

First, how soon in T4.1 due out?  I only have CT stuff, but don't want to buy 
T4 and have T4.1 come out two weeks later (I got burned on GURPS basic this 
way).

Also, re: pricing.  On the web site, the software T4 is listed as $11.00 on 
the catalog screen and the order form.  However, it is listed as $25.00 on the 
information screen.  Which is right?

TIA
Kevin
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:41:52 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Mapping program...DOS

I found this in the rec.games.frp.misc newsgroup.  Thought I'd forward here.

Kevin
==========

However........

There is a public domain DOS program (Galatic 2.3) by Jim Vassilakos
which contains much of this data and a heck of a lot more. This is
well worth a look. It can be found at:

http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~jimv/progs.html


 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:02:48 GMT
From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
Subject: Rumor or fact??

My local gamestore owner told me yesterday that GURPS now owns the
rights to the Traveller name and IG will no longer be involved in
producing game material once their current contract ends. Marc Miller,
he said would only be involved peripherally in game product design,
and the "alternate history" GURPS was starting would become the
"official" one.

He said this was in a trade paper but did not produce it. He may also
have said it was in USA Today but I do not recall.

Anyway, he was quite certain about it, even after we told him nothing
had been said about this on the Internet and Marc himself was online.

Has anyone heard something of this or is this just something the owner
got terribly confused?

John Lansford

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:12:19
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1887

Peter Newman wrote :

>
>I suspect that the best design for a grav tank might resemble a somewhat
>flattened (ie airframe hull) sphere.  The sphere will have less surface
>area (which needs to be armored) for the size of its internal voulume. 
>Grav Tanks with adequate power plants can make a pretty fair speed and
>would be helped by airframe hulls.
>

The point to a slab design is you can load the front up with armour, thus
helping your protection against direct fire from the front.
 
>This does start to bring up the question of where a grav tank ends and
>where a heavy atmospheric fighter begins.

It's a definitional question, really ... it's like asking what is a 
fighter-bomber and what is a light bomber.


>>>
>>What, Hengabar have a new derringer he needs to try out on a suitable
>>target? A man-portable black hole gun or somesuch?
>
>
>	I am unable to comment at this time :).
>
>Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
>

To : Hengbar
From : Davar hault-Verwell
Re : Advanced Order

My dear Hengbar,

While at the salon, I heard a rumour you were planning on a man-portable
black hole gun.

Is it available in puce, and can I get it in autofire ?

Yours with kisses,

Davar

>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
>Subject: Re: Grav Belts

>
>That is why grav belts are a better solution.  Given the fact that grav
>belts (at a little over Cr 100,000) each are cheaper than Battle Dress
>and add significantly to its operational flexability implies that Battle
>Dress troops should usually have grav belts as well.
>

The only question is how badly do grav belts affect your detectability
against standard battlefield sensors. If they make you show up like
dogs balls, then life could get unhealthy for their users.
- -
>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 14:24:02 -0800
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
>Subject: Re: Pirates (was Re: Questions about Traveller)
>
>Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote
>

>But pirates are more likely to attack smaller ships.  Smaller ships are,
>ceteris parabus, weaker & less able to defend themselves.  (they are
>also less valuable but pirates are not interested in fair fights they
>are interested in easy money)  Therefore pirates will attck smaller
>ships more.  MegaCorporations have big (or very big ) ships in most
>cases (economies of scale & all that).  THerefore pirates hurt small
>merchants the most.
>
>Maybe this is why pirates still exist in Traveller.  The MegaCorps have
>pressured the Imperial government away from dealing with pirates so the
>pirates will weaken the competative ability of the smaller companies.
>

Highly unlikely. One side-effect of piracy is small merchants adopting
convoy. And if they start co-operating on convoy, they'll start sharing
ground installation, pooling capital and so on. And then you dont have a
bunch of small, disorginised competitors any more.

>When the Corps lobby the Imperial government they are using the line
>that the navy needs big ships to fight off the Zhos & these ships need
>to be concentrated rather then spread out (to avoid defeat in detail). 
>Coincidently this will mean fewer ships to stop pirates. They might even
>argue that the Imperial Navy should concentrate on the job of preparing
>to fight enemy states & let the sector & subsector fleets take care of
>the pirates.  Then the MegaCorps go to the Sector & subsector
>governmnets & pressure them not to patrol very much either.  The actual
>members of the Navy are presumably as anti pirate as anyone else & may
>deter some piracy by shooting pirates ships who won't stand too for a
>customs inspection.  (the old "shot while resisting arrest" bit so
>popular with certani police forces....)

The flip side is anti-pirate work is good operational training for the fleet.
The IN may well want to go on regular piracy sweeps, to keep crews skilled
and give it's captains and crews a taste of fire.

Small merchants also contribute to local economies, and pirates may get
uppitty and start raiding actual worlds.

>
>The big corporations can then use the (too slight to involve the
>government but scary to individuals) threat of pirates to encourage
>passengers to take their ships rather than tramp starships.  Since their
>ships will be bigger and (possibly) more comfortable anyway most
>passengers won't take much convincing.  A line in thier ships brochures
>or ads saying something like "travel in comfort & safety" would probably
>do it.

The issue is also regular schedules and so on.

>
>This may be why their are pirates in Traveller - The MegaCorps hinder
>the effort to stop them for their own reasons.  As long as the pirates
>do not kill or rob very many nobles they may continue to get away with
>their nefarious trade.

Possible, but unlikely. If the pirates grow enough, sooner or later they 
are going to bushwhack a large megacorp freighter, and then some Sector
Director is going to lose their job ...

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:15:23 -0500
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...

> From: Jory M. Earl <j-man@iname.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...
> Date: Saturday, September 27, 1997 9:22 AM
> 
> Are you serious?  Traveller actually had an item called "Vargr Chew
> Toys"?  If so, I'm laughing...
 

Vargr Chew Toys are a reality.  Challenge 59 1/2 - April Fool Issue
(bundled with issue #59) takes great shots at all of us, and gave us a
window into the Vargr forms of government...


Traveller News Service
Lair/Orraenang	Date 123-4567

"Woof! Woof woofwoofwoof." "Grrrrrrrowff!! Grrrrrr, grrrrr" "Browff!"
"Grrrowowowow! Hrrrrrrmff! Owoooool Owoooo!" "Snrrrufff! Yap!
Yapyapyapyapyapyap."
And so the conversation continued on inconclusively for hours between
Minister for Tennis Balls Halifax Gvererererrerrnd and Shadow Councilor for
Chew Toys Wisconsin Snntzbut.

Hey!  It's from TNS!  It's gotta be true!


Woof!

- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:58:31 -0500
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

> From: SemoFetus@aol.com
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
> Date: Saturday, September 27, 1997 6:12 PM
> 
> >Sombody said that on the IG products page, there is a reference to the
> >Varge.  Whoever wrote that should be shot.  Whoever is in charge of the
> >website should be shot.  This is the type of thing that is hurting their
> >reputation.

Yes, here it is, under Products:

Aliens, Volume 1
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
The expanding human empires reach out among the stars and make contact with
two other interstellar civilizations: the Aslan, noble carnivors
challenging the growth of human colonies on their frontiers; the Varge,
genetically altered savage canine stock, raiding human worlds for plunder. 


> Yes, I've seen it, too.  It is what many people call a typo.  As soon as I
> saw it, I realized that millions of people make that same mistake every
day.
>  Yes, there is, horror of horrors, a typo on their webpage.

Its not just *A* typo. (They misspelled 'carnivores' in 'Aliens, Vol 1' but
we won't mention it...)
Also, under First Survey:
	"This detailed UWP information is baed on data originally"
	'baed' should be' based'

And how about EA:

Emperor's Arsenal
- -------------------------------------------------
Cleon's new Imperium holds the planets together by force of arms. Their
high-tech weaponry is revealed in this new supplement for Marc Miller's
Travller, complete with descriptionsm prices, and fantastic illustrations.
From fusion guns to accelerator rifles, all the weapons the Imperium has to
offer are found in The Emperor's Arsenal. 

'Travller' and 'descriptionsm' are both typos.

From Milieu 0:
"It is the first in Imperium Games' planned line of Milieu books, each
detailing a range of years during the Third Imperium's long existance"

'existance' should be spelled 'existence'

From FF&S:

"down to the last detail to suit your adventurers or your campaignsystem." 
'campaignsystem' should be, of course, two words

And, from JTAS25,
"Now they can discover just what tht "cargo" is"
'tht' should be 'that'

> Just think about how angry you appear to be over that, and tell me, aren't
> you being just a tiny bit anal and nitpicky?

Not really, they are all just YAT4TO (Yet Another T4 TypeO).  Its kinda like
the
last straw, that one last thing, after you've endured the same thing over
and over, *one* more comes at you from an unexpected direction.

*Sigh*

Yeah, I got typos on my own web pages, and I do get paid to produce pages
with no mistakes, but I try to eliminate all of them.  Still, some slip by. 

> Don't get me wrong, if I was the webpage designer contracted to designthe
> page, I'd try not to let that happen.  I'd double check my work. However,
> chances are, the guys who made the webpage weren't Traveller players.
>  Someone slips with a finger, types "e" instead of "r", and then when
> checking the page isn't versed enough in Traveller to pick up on the mistake
> immediately.

True, but someone well versed in Traveller should have reviewed the site,
pointed out the mistake, and had it fixed.  (The other typos require no
special knowledge of Traveller)  Would have taken 5 minutes to fix the typo,
another 5 minutes publishing it.   I write internal web pages/applications
for the number three supplier of financial information in the world.  On a
busy day, it might take me an hour from the moment I finds out about a typo
to it being fixed. 

How long has these typos been in existence?

> I just don't see the anger about this...
> 
> Semo

Its not anger as much as hopelessness.  Unfortunately, its just another example
of IG's problems.  None of them are unfixable, but IG does seem to be reluctant
to attempt to sometimes.

By the way, who is actually responsible for IG's site?  Is OPX being paid
for this?  

- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 01:19:58 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: TNE Rules and .5d

On 09/27/97 at 06:46 PM,  Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com> said:

>> Man!  I interpreted the Quick Kill rule differently from both of you.
 
>> This means that if you hit somebody in the head or chest with that gauss
>> rifle (4d6) and roll 14, the GM rolls a 1d20 and you get a "quick kill" on
>> a roll of *14* or less on that d20 (odds on a 4d weapon would range from
>> 20% to 95% for instant kill).  Even a 1d6 Pop Gun to the chest has a
>> significant chance to instantly take the target down (5% to 30%). This
>> makes combat *very* deadly, and PC's are well advised to avoid it at *all*
>> costs.

>I read the rule like Eris did.

Hey Ken!

Now that you've accepted the .5d, I guess I'm the last hold out. ;->  So,
how let's  go "whole hog" with those 1d3's!

Instead of rolling 2d6 for Attributes, let's roll 3d3!  The range, 3 to 9,
is a *much* nicer one and it ought to sell a ton of those d3's you're going
to  manufacture with your new dice factory. ;-p

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 01:32:34 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: 1d fists, 1d knives...

On 09/27/97 at 08:52 PM,  Roderick Darroch Elliott
<rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca> said:

>	It occurs to me that the way around the discrepancy that's forced Ken to
>advocate using a half-die is due to the fact that in Traveller, damage
>seems to be treated in a very abstract way.  Damage is damage, whether
>it's done by blunt trauma (fists) or by penetrating trauma (knives, guns,
>etc), or by ludicrous amounts of radiation (lasers, plasma guns, etc).

GURPS does this, IMO, it carries it's details a little far and that is part
of what gives it a reputation for having a slow and complicated combat
system.  However, in general, I agree with you that it would be a good idea
to differentiate between blunt trauma and penetrating trauma, at least. 
Energy weapons do penetrating damage, in part, and maybe we should include
burn damage as well, that's an important and different kind of damage.

Any ideas on how we could incorportate this without getting overly
complicated?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:47:25 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 ETA?

On 27 Sep 97 at 20:22, Kevin L. Kitchens wrote:

> Couple of questions about T4 and T4.1..
> 
> First, how soon in T4.1 due out?  I only have CT stuff, but don't want to
> buy T4 and have T4.1 come out two weeks later (I got burned on GURPS basic
> this way).
> 
> Also, re: pricing.  On the web site, the software T4 is listed as $11.00
> on the catalog screen and the order form.  However, it is listed as $25.00
> on the information screen.  Which is right?

That is, um...softCOVER, not software. :)
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:52:39 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: The T4 Fist 

At 01:07 PM 9/27/97 -0700, I wrote:

>Ummm... I did just see Kenneth advocate the use of a half-die, right?

the Douglas said:

>I can die now.
>Ken is supporting 1/2 die rolls...  ;)

Then James chimed in:

>What planet am I on?  Did Ken just advocate using 1/2 dice? :)

Great minds think alike.
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|----------------------------------------|
|      I am trying to find myself.       |
| If I should return before I come back, |
|        please ask me to wait.          |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:49:14 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...

At 09:00 PM 9/27/97 -0500, Roderick wrote:

>	Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules
>worth of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of
>liquid hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?

First he wants to know the armor value for 50km of rock, now this.

I am *really* afraid of this man....
- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|----------------------------------------|
|      I am trying to find myself.       |
| If I should return before I come back, |
|        please ask me to wait.          |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:13:09 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...

Send me the stats on the chew toys..:)

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 02:16:33 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: 1d fists, 1d knives...

On 28 Sep 97 at 1:32, Eris Reddoch wrote:

From:           	eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
> Any ideas on how we could incorportate this without getting overly
> complicated?

Perhaps Blunt Trauma only counts as 1/4 to 1/2 of the damage from penetrating? 
 A boxer can withstand quite a few punches to the body and while each one does 
damage, it does not really weaken him rapidly.

Taking this into consideration, then the base damage for some blunt items 
would need to be increased to compensate.  You get hit in the head with a 
boulder, you are likely to suffer some immediate and permanent effects.  

Some armors should still absorb some blunt attacks, however, there should 
still be some damage applied to the character as my baseball bat hits your 
armor, while you didn't feel the bat, you did feel your armor hit you with a 
reduced amount of the force.

Kevin
 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:26:01 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: TNE Rules

Eris Reddoch writes:

>>   Quick Kill: Any shot which hits the chest or head may constitute a
>>killing shot.  Roll 1D20.  If the roll is less than or equal to the
>>*damage value* of the shot, the target is instantly killed except on the
>>roll of a 20 exactly.
>
>>   Which means if you hit somebody in the head or chest with a gauss rifle
>>that does 4D of damage, you would roll a D20 for quick kill and any roll
>>of 1-4 would result in instant death.
>
>Man!  I interpreted the Quick Kill rule differently from both of you. The
>way I read it (and run it) is if the D20 is <= the *rolled* damage value of
>the shot you get instant death (actually, instant
>incapacitation and/or unconsciousness the way I play it).  I only used this
>on edged and fired weapons.
>
>This means that if you hit somebody in the head or chest with that gauss
>rifle (4d6) and roll 14, the GM rolls a 1d20 and you get a "quick kill" on
>a roll of *14* or less on that d20 (odds on a 4d weapon would range from
>20% to 95% for instant kill).  Even a 1d6 Pop Gun to the chest has a
>significant chance to instantly take the target down (5% to 30%). This
>makes combat *very* deadly, and PC's are well advised to avoid it at *all*
>costs.

   I used to do it your way until I noticed it says "the damage value"
of the shot.  Damage value in TNE for a weapon is "the number of D6 (or
D10 in my case) rolled."  This is why some people started multipling the
damage value times 2 for the purposes of determining a quick kill from a
head shot.

   BTW, part of why I started experimenting with 1 second melee combat
turns is because I still use D6 for melee combat.  Since most people
don't fire their guns 5 times in a regular combat turn, you can
generally get more strikes in against the bad guy using melee combat,
but the damage you can inflict "blow for blow" is better with a gun.

>I agree with you.  They are called *deadly* weapons for a good reason and
>if the PC's get in their way too often...you get dead *very* fast. Doesn't
>mean there won't be any combat, just that it better be *important* before
>you pull out the gauss weapons, and you better remember the body armor,
>helmet, and to get behind cover fast.

   Amen.  It's also *amazing* to see the changes in behavior you can
evoke from battledress equipped troopers when suddenly the bad guys stop
using assault rifles and start using plasma and fusion rifles...

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:52:20 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: TNE Rules

Peter Newman writes:

>>    I use the D10 *only* for fire combat, since using D10 for fist fights
>> tends to make them a bit too short and bloody.
>
>But in real life (TM) a good martial artist can usually disable or kill
>their opponent with 1 or (at most) 2 good blows if that is their
>objective.  Maybe fist fights _should_ be short & bloody.  If you
>disagree or are modeling a different paradigm that is also a perfectly
>valid perspective, but is perhaps not as "realistic".

   My thinking, which I just expressed in a prior post, was that melee
combat should be conducted in 1 second segments instead of the usual
five seconds, which means you can perform 5 seperate melee combat
segments during a regular 5 second combat turn.  Therefore while the
martial artist with a sword is only doing D6s of damage, on average
(since you usually don't fire your weapon five times in a combat turn)
he can still inflict just as much damage (or more) as a guy holding a
gauss pistol and firing twice.

Example: Thor strikes a bad guy with his trusty sword four times in a
combat turn (he spent the other melee combat segment blocking).  Thor
has a strength of 10.  Therefore his sword was able to do 8D6 of total
damage (average of 3.5 x 8 = 28 pts.) to the bad guy, assuming no
exceptional success.  Tony shoots a bad guy with his trusty gauss pistol
twice in a combat turn (a third shot missed).  The gauss pistol does
2D10 damage.  Again assuming no exception success is rolled, Tony's
pistol is able to do 4D10 of total damage (average of 5.5 x 4 = 22 pts.)
to the bad guy.

>>  If you do not like this reality, play the engineer who is
>> always getting stuck back on the ship keeping the engine running.
>
>As the former player of an former Scout engineer charecter who (in MT)
>interrupted a bank robbery by about 8 people with shotguns by throwing
>her Frisbee at one of them I would like to strongly protest the notion
>that the engineer is always stuck keeping the engine running.

   Well Xena  :-), who is going to keep the bad guys from breaking into
your ship while the crew is away and doing acts of severe sabotage?  My
players have learned through hard experience that security measures can
be by-passed, and having somebody stand guard from inside (somebody who
can also fly the ship and come rescue the rest of the party when they
need it) is the only way to go.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:50:50 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:13:44 +0200 (METDST)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>>Which is why they attack by suprise.  I would say that if you have
>>two ships of equal ability one pulls up close and gets a suprise
>>attack in, it's not a fair fight.

>No, but if you have traffic regulations to keep ships from pulling up close,
>your hypothetical pirate can't achieve surprise. It's not like he can lie
>hidden in a dense patch of ether and pounce as the merchant passes him by.

Well, as I have said, I really don't agree that traffic regulations
would be seen as warranted by the threat.  However, in any case, when
a patrol ships pulls up for yet another routine inspection would be
a good time to launch a suprise attack.

>>Yeah, the problem is that you are talking about dispersing them through
>>out the Spinward Marches, which we have aleady established negates their
>>military value.

>We have established no such thing. I don't even recall that you have claimed
>it in this discussion, but I may just have missed it (In any case things
>don't become established just because you (or, I admit it, I) claim it.)

Yes, you did miss it.  I too miss things.  I have agreed that there
would be no piracy in the Regina system.  It would occur in more
fringe systems.  If you want to invoke the ability of high pop worlds
to field forces to stop all piracy, then you have to disperse forces to
all the systems, otherwise piracy will simply occur in the systems
without forces.  Nor, as I have said, is your scheme for required
entry departure points sufficient to change this.

>Have you ever played a TCS campaign? Did you put out scouts in every system
>you owned (and a lot you didn't)? Did you put pickets in all your systems?
>I did. And I _claim_ that anyone with a bit of sense would do the same.
>Those pickets might as well earn their keep by taking care of any passing
>pirates.

I don't believe a scout in a system will be enough to stop piracy for
reasons I have elucidated concerning it's lack of coverage and
insufficient firepower.

>Do the math. The loss is negligible (The fuel cost is especially ludicrous).
>And it will be passed on to the customers anyway.

Well, with fixed rates a 1% change in costs can be (if the profit margin
is 20%) a 5% change in profits.  Without fixed costs they will be
in a competative sitation and can't just pass the cost along.
[The idea that just because a cost is small you can assume it
will be treated as if it doesn't exist is a classic mistake on this
mailing list.]
The fact is that business don't pay costs that are a waste of money
because they are "small".  They pay them when the consequences of
not paying them outways the cost.  You are balancing something that
is long shot to ever happen (piracy) against something that happens
in _every_ jump (fuel costs and loss of time).  The small cost
that happens every time adds up.

>>Why would the government demand it if trade didn't want it.  It's not
>>like military ships have problems with piracy.

>Why wouldn't trade want it? Piracy is bad.

It's bad for the mercants.  The reasons they oppose it is because
the merchants don't like it.  If they merchants think the solution
is to costly, then the Imperium isn't going to win any points with
the merchants.

[Stuff about piracy being bad for merchants...]

>when an expense applies equally to everybody, as this one
>will, no one can undercut their business rivals by avoiding the expense, so
>no one will have an interest in getting rid of it.

But the same thing applies to piracy.  If you buy this arguement then
you have to figure that the only motivation is to keep general trade
costs low and to do this they are going to look at the costs of
piracy and the costs of wasted fuel and time and going to take
the cheaper.  It doesn't take a big change in costs for piracy
to be cheaper if they only take one out of every 1,000, or 10,000,
cargos.

>>I don't think it takes 1/1000th of your planetary defenses, as I have
>>stated elsewhere.
>
>So you have, but you haven't backed it up.

Well, I guess this is in they eye of the beholder.  I have found your
arguement in sufficient myself.  I am happy to stand on my arguements
and let others decide from themselves and that we will have to agree
to disagree.

>If you think I'm interpreting them wrong, show
>me where I go wrong.

I have.  If you missed it, e-mail me and I will reiterate (but please
be brief, I don't have a lot of time to reiterate arguements).

>>Well, it will be.  Even the fuel you purchase from the star port comes
>>from the gas giant, someone else just gets it.

>And that someone else can look out for pirates.

So you aren't eliminating the piracy, just changing the victims.

> 'In space there is no place
>to hide!' remember? How do you expect the pirate to get to the Gas Giant
>undetected if the Gas Giant is under observation at all times?

As I have said, the ship can simply pose as an innocent ship and I
have not read anything that counters this.

>>Also, the pirate doesn't need to be lurking in the exact spot.

>If he wants to remain hidden he has to lurk deep enough in the Gas Giant
>that he can't be spotted by sensors.

This is one way.  Or he can pose as an innocent ship.  However, my
main point is that it takes some time for the ship to make it's way
in from the jump limit, skim it's fuel, and move out.  The pirate
can move considerably in that time.

>That puts him low enough to degrade
>his own sensors

Actually, it works in his favor since it is easier to look out from
a planet than in at it.  The pirate will be using the emmissions of
the planet more than the atmosphere.  In any case, the pirate could
_also_ hide in and use a confederate to detect the other ship.  It
could also simply jump in at the limit, spot ships between them and the
planet (or are simply nearby) and go after them.

A ship refueling at a gas giants has considerable time where he
is unable to jump away.  (If it comes in empty, refueling may be
it's only choice)  It think to assume that it will be able to
automatically spot a pirate before it spots him is questionable at
best.  When you add in the question of how does he know which
ships are pirates (in fact, pirates may in fact be also operating
as merchants) things are even more iffy.

>>Just like any other system, he can spot you on the way in or out.
>
>Oh, that's right. He won't be down there in the first place, because he
>would have been spotted on the way in and patrol ships would be buzzing
>him like angry bees.

Well, now we are back to more than one scout ships gaurding a system.
Even then, you are going to need a short response time because
the pirate may simply poses as a normal ship.  He may, in
fact, be a legitimate trader who engages in piracy on the side.
Or he simply can jump in and take targets of opportunity.   Or
he (if you are just using scout ships) ambush one.  In any
case, the first evidence of piracy may will be the start of the
attack.

>>If you want to suppose the Imperium has a similar view of piracy,
>
>I do want to. Piracy has all the earmarks of a crime that would provoke
>governments in a big way.

I don't agree.  Low level piracy has been tolerated by pirates
in numerous historical situation.  It is only when it becomes
a big problem that people will devote big recources.

>>that is OK.  But that is simply a another spin on the problem, not
>>reasoning that invalidates an Imperium  with piracy.
>
>Not on its own, agreed. But you will agree that the Emperor would rather
>not have piracy, given a choice? That if he could simply push a button
>and end piracy forever, he would do it? OK, so the problem simply boils
>down to a comparison of two things: 1) How much effort would it take to
>suppress piracy and 2) how badly do you want it.

I agree.

>I maintain that using 1/1000th of your naval budget to suppress piracy
>sounds worth it to avoid having to soothe angry delegations of merchants
>who wants Something Done About This Outrage.

Well, I simply don't agree that you can do it with a scout ship in
a system.  I don't agree that you required departure scheme is
such an obvious way to go or that you only need to guard the
main planet.  Most systems are going to have traffic in and
out of gas giants, worlds being mined, and any world with
a population.  To stop pirates you are going to need significant
resources at all these worlds and you are going to need to do
that in every system.

>>I did. I've pointed out that you will need a couple of dozen for each
>>world
>
>And I've pointed out that you would have those dozens. And scores.

OK, so if you need 25 ships at each world (or 50 if you want to
get by with system defense boats because as ship that small is
going to need a partner) and you have 5 worlds in most systems
with significant traffic (as an average, some will have less,
somewill have more), then you need at least 125 ships in
each system (more if the pirates simply start grouping up).
Then you need to do this at every system in the Imperium.  That
is not a trivial number of ships.

What is more, then you have to postulate that the Imperium decides
that keeping 125 (or more) ships in a low traffic system where
they are only going to have a merchant loose his cargo now and
then is worth it.  It is very likely that it would be cheaper
to offer free cargo insurance.

>>and will need to protect any world in a system that supports trade
>>(which includes the main world, the gas giants, and all other worlds with
>>other populations, mining, etc. on them).

>True, provided the system has other worlds that are being exploited. Of
>course, if they are being exploited they represent the interests of a
>sizable civilization with Stellar+ technology. Someone with a sizable
>naval budget...

In all the system descriptions I've seen, there is some mining
of other planets, even when the main world has a modest population
and there is alway traffic in and out of the gas giants.

>>Then you need to do this in every system in the Imperium.
>
>And a lot of those systems will only need to have one world patrolled.

The number of systems with one one populated planet and no gas giant
is low.

>>You also need those patrols big enough to stop the pirates from doing
>>simple things like ganging up into groups of two or three and/or attacking
>>by suprise (ie you need a a force that can deal with any worst case senario,
>>which is the way it usually works.)

>Remember that the communication lag applies equally to the pirates. If you
>have a few cruisers visiting the pickets on a random basis, the pirates
>(the hypothetical band of pirates who won't exist if single pirates can't
>make a living) won't know if they are commiting suicide when they try to
>jump in and surprise the patrol.

No.  If they spot the cruiser they just move on.  The fact is that
such random patrols are ineffective in stopping hit and run attacks.

>And, again, a pirate don't like fighting
>navy ships; there's no future in it.

Well, this is true if they are out matched.  If the pirates match
the Imperium and attack with suprise, then there can well be a future
in it.

>Btw., you can keep a cruiser
>permanently with quite a few of the patrols and still keep within the
>budget I postulate.

Yeah, but can you keep dozens to hundreds of them at every system?
If not, the pirates will just attack where they aren't.

>So you have, and I still find your reasoning flawed. If you want to agree
>to disagree, then that's fine by me.

OK.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1889
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 28 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1890



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The T4 Fist
Re: The T4 Fist
Re: 1d fists, 1d knives...
Re: The T4 Fist
Re: TNE Rules and .5d
IG, Quality and the future (very long)
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: TNE Rules
Re: Armour and 50km rocks. . . .
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1888
Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...
Re: Questions about Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:26:46 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: The T4 Fist

Douglas wrote:

> I can die now.
> 
> Ken is supporting 1/2 die rolls...  ;)

Man!  I didn't realize I was so infamous.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:20:42 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: The T4 Fist

James Lindsay wrote:
> What planet am I on?  Did Ken just advocate using 1/2 dice? :)


Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> Ummm... I did just see Kenneth advocate the use of a half-die, right?


You guys are making me laugh!

Of course I use half die--anytime I need to roll 1-3.

I've just never liked the half die rareing its ugly head in a
non-uniform, patched together, ungraceful task system.  That's all.

I thought I was clear on this before...but if you want me to tell you
again....

Well, maybe not right now.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:42:29 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: 1d fists, 1d knives...

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
>
>         One of the reasons that I like Glenn's Hit Location Table so much
> is that it allows a ref with a bit of common sense to take this into
> account in narrating.

I like Glenn's table as well, and I do use it--every shot.

>         Perhaps the problem isn't so much that Trav combat poorly models
> _amount_ of damage but that it totally ignores _types_ of damage?

Maybe so and probably right.  But, I think the amount of damage has
something to do with it too.

It stands to reason that I can hurt you a lot more and a lot faster if I
cut you deep with knife rather than hit you as hard as I can with my
fist.

Would you rather face a guy with a knife, or a guy with his bare hands?

I'd pick bare hands any day.

In Traveller, the characters don't care.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:57:09 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: The T4 Fist

Douglas E. Berry wrote:
> 
> At 01:07 PM 9/27/97 -0700, I wrote:
> 
> >Ummm... I did just see Kenneth advocate the use of a half-die, right?
> 
> the Douglas said:
> 
> >I can die now.
> >Ken is supporting 1/2 die rolls...  ;)
> 
> Then James chimed in:
> 
> >What planet am I on?  Did Ken just advocate using 1/2 dice? :)
> 
> Great minds think alike.


(Ken, in the corner, mumbling to himself)

....half die..half die...half die...half die...


Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 03:55:15 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: TNE Rules and .5d

Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Hey Ken!

Howdy Eris!  (that's 'hi' from us down here in Texas)

> Now that you've accepted the .5d, I guess I'm the last hold out. ;->  So,
> how let's  go "whole hog" with those 1d3's!

Geeeez!  What a rep I've developed witht he half die.


I can see the half die's uses, especially when I need to roll 1-3!

BUT, I STILL DO NOT ADVOCATE USING HALF DIE IN THE TASK SYSTEM.

It's unelegant.  It's unsightly!  IT'S NOT NEEDED!

Whew.  Sometimes I feel like Beevis...half die...half die...Half
die...HALF DIE...DIE...DIE...KILL...KILL...THE...HALF...DIE...AH..AH AH
AH AH AH AHHHHH!!!!


OK, I'm better now.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:50:20 +1200
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: IG, Quality and the future (very long)

Well this one really brings out the strongest emotions, doesn't it?

I think much could be gained by sitting down and taking a dispassionate
look at exactly what IG has produced, what IG is doing wrong and what IG
is doing right. This post is going to be *long*, so you might want to skip
it; ut I think I'm saying things here which need to be said and remembered.

So to start, the products (1 rules book, 11 supplements, 2 adventures, 1
gamescreen and 2 JTAS).

The Traveller rule book: Well generally this is an okay product. There are
a fair number of minor typos (words misspelt here and there, gramatical
errors etc) and three major ommissions (jump drive table, the Thruster and
jumpdrive error in QSDS (out by a factor of 14) and the rank mustering out
benefit table). Okay, so the minor typos can be a little irritating, though
most are invisible (ie you probably won't notice them unless they are
pointed out); the two major omissions are annoying but IG issued an errata
quickly and they don't detract too much. Overall, the product show all the
signs of badly rushed production. A good product.

Starships: Well this is a fairly major stuff up, many of the predesigned
ships are simply a joke, the deckplans definitely are a joke. However SSDS
is robust and useable with no major errors. Now since non-gearheads have
to rely on materials such as this for ships etc. this is bad; there should
have been some major bottom kicking at IG over this, but from all accounts
there was. Still the basic design system is sound, so the product is useable.
A poor product.

Central Supply Catalog: A couple of minor typos, but they are minor. The
major 'problem' with CSC is the canon-breaking potential of some of the
equipment contained within. Most of this stems from Greg Porter's apparent
desire to produce a supplement useable cross milieu whilst also staying
in "M:0 character" (a truely laudable goal). So it has prompted a whole lot
of hand waving here on the list (not neccessarily a bad thing) and caused
another potential problem down the line, but the "M:0 character" really does
add to the product way out of proportion to it's potential problems. An
excellant product.

Aliens Archive: Okay, I don't like Aliens Archive. The larger typesize really
makes the product stick out from the others and makes me think it was
'streched' from insufficent material. But other than that, there are no major
typos or layout problems. Since we can't really challange the races included
on the grounds of scientific reality (we have only one example of a worldwide
ecyosystem to base our theories on), so the only challange to this can be
that the races are 'cardboard' in a storytelling sense. Well, they're not.
They are not as well drawn as the races from the CT alien modules or the DPG
supplements; but we can't expect that given the space limitations. They are
better drawn than the JTAS contact articles; and they all fit into a distinct
campaign niche and will add to a game. A good product.

Milieu 0: Again no major typos and the minor ones are effectively invisible.
Okay there is a major potential canon conflict in it (the part Vilani Cleon
and pure Vilani Artemsus) which has prompted some really furious handwaving.
But the material presented is all good solid stuff, the Milieu is welldrawn
and the additional rules for political campaigns are a positive boon. Okay
so the core sector data has a major problem (the Govt/Law snafu) but this
does not detract too much (I'll cover this snafu in detail with FS). All
round this is still an excellent product, if the data in the sector map
wasn't broken, it would be outstanding.

First Survey: Okay, this has *major* problems. Firstly there is the Govt/Law
snafu. Quite simply this should never have happened. Somebody should have
picked this up. Secondly, the data just plain doesn't make sense. There are
way to many high tech planets and there are planets with pop factor B. This
entire product shows signs of sloppy editing and non-existant proofing. As
with Starships some bottoms should have been well and truely kicked over
this; but then again, apparently they were. Still with some significant work
the product is useable (edit the high tech and high pop worlds and reroll
the law levels). Overall a very poor product, the worst that IG has produced.

Emperor's Arsenal: Again, minor typos, some of which are annoying. Suffers
the same potential canon-breaking problem of CSC for exactly the same reason.
However even having said all that, this is an product to be proud of. All
this is good solid stuff, good imaginative descriptive text, good artwork,
good equipment; well worth a place on any bookshelf. An excellant product.

Pocket Empires: Well, what can one say. This is simply the best thing IG has
put out to date. A few inconsitancies in the descriptive text, but these are
invisible and even if they weren't it wouldn't matter. One minor table left
out, well it's a very minor table and has been widely circulated. PE can be
used with any version of Traveller with minor modifications and pretty much
in any milieu. To put it simply, it's outstanding.

Anomalies: Okay, layout good, no major typos, no missing tables etc. On to
the adventures themselves. Well they're all imaginative and challanging,
however there are some problems. First there's "Lock and Loot" with the now
imfamous TL 14 laser pistols and vacc suits. Then there's "Lone Whisper".
While this is on the face of it a good adventure, challanging and inovative.
But it takes a horse and cart and drives it right through canon. Releasing
one of Grandfathers children into the universe might not have an effect on
canon in M:0, but it will in M:1100. But, despite these two exceptions, these
adventures are good, challanging and worth the time and trouble of running
them. A fair product, would be better if "Lone Whisper" and "Lock and Loot"
were fixed.

Psionic Intitutes: No missing tables, no major typos, I've not found any minor
ones either, but doubtless they're there (I have yet to see a 128 page 1st
edition of *anything* without them). This supplement takes a poorly defined
but oft used element of Traveller (Psionics) and puts some *long* overdue
flesh on it's bones. Well thoughtout and well written, with a little work
useable in any milieu. An outstanding product, rivals PE for best so far.

Fire, Fusion and Steel: Well we all know about the multiplication sign typo,
that should not have got through. Miss it once, maybe, twice perhaps, every
single time; no way, shear incompetance all down the line in production (NOTE
this is not the authors fault, this is the production teams fault; in the
draft sent to IG they were okay); and an important table was missed out.
However these errors are not fatal, if an errata had been released, I don't
think anyone would have minded too much. But as far as I know, no offical
errata has *ever* been produced. Lets put this bluntly, this is just not good
enough. FFS2 is an excellent product and even with the production mess it's
quite useable. But without the control table the vehicle design sequence is
fatally flawed. With an errata it's an excellant product, without it's only
fair.

Milieu O Campaign: Takes M:0 and FS and puts them in one hardcover book, adds
yet more good stuff to M:0 (note this was not omitted in error, it was omitted
to bring the book within size limits; a common practice). Okay so this makes
M:0 even better and the extra pages mitigate some of the worst excesses of FS.
However even with the rules on extended Law Level (very good rules BTW), there
is still the problem of the pop B worlds and just too many TL C+ worlds. Takes
M:0 up to outstanding and FS up to fair.

Long Way Home and Gateway: It's probably best to look at these two as one item.
A good adventure campaign, challanging and capturing the feel of the milieu
well. Not taking the world data from these and putting it into M:0 campaign
is something that IG should be kicking themselves over. However, they're not
without their typos, some of which are getting on being major. The biggest
problem with these is the canon-breakng nature of the central premis of the
campaign (a method of long distance jump direct from a worlds surface), this
requires some major league handwaving to incorporate. Overall good products,
but that canon problem really is annoying.

Journal of Travellers Aid Society: Biggest problem with these is that there
has only been two of them. After a year there should be four issues. Since
these are the logical choice for IG to communicate with it's customer base
this is a major problem. However the articles have ranged from fair to
excellent, and overall I'd put both issues down as good products.


Okay, so what is IG doing wrong? Firstly, too many products show all the
signs of being rushed. Slow down the production schedule. Stop aiming for
one supplement a month, drop it down to something realistic like one every
six weeks or one every two months. Get that right, then push up the rate.
Thankfully IG do show signs of doing this, T4.1 is being held back until it's
right; but more needs to be done.

Secondly, errata. IG need to get their act together regarding errata now.
Mistakes happen, everyone knows this. I really don't think it's possible to
put out a 128 page book without at least a few errors in the first printing.
However when they are found, an errata has to be issued in a timely fashion.
IG is not doing this, the errata section on their web site has not been
updated in over six months, no offical errata since CSC. For crying out loud
GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER. If anything is going to kill IG it will be this.
Further to this, IG has to pull finger with JTAS. This is the ideal vehicle
to get these errata out, but it's production is just too sporadic at the
moment to be useable.

So what is IG doing right? IG's products are some of the best on the market
underneigth it all. The T4 game system is one of the best around, fast, easy
to play, releastic where it counts and eminantly expandable. Sure it could
do with a little polishing around the edges (bring on T4.1), but it is very
good. The supplements are (with a two very notable exceptions) quality items
only held back by poor (read rushed) production standards.

Then we move on to Marc W. Millar. His attitude and actions are quite
litterally amazing. Would that all games producers learnt from him. I don't
think it's unreasonable to say that he is the best thing going for both IG
and Traveller.


So to the future. What does it hold? Despite everything, I think IG is still
the best/last chance Traveller has of surviving as an independent game system.
Sure GURPS: Traveller will come out and will sell. But G:T is *NOT* Traveller,
it's GURPS and I plain old fashioned don't like GURPS and don't think it will
translate well. Firstly there's the Metric/Imperial problem. The use of the
Metric system is one of the things to me which gives Traveller its "feel".
Call me old fashioned if you will, but somehow the idea of the 3rd Imperium
measuring everything in yards, pounds and gallons just doesn't sit right (just
how many gallons of L-Hyd to the displacement ton?). Then there's the GURPS
Tech levels; Traveller tech may have it's problems, but GURPS is worse. [Okay
so enough GURPS bashing for now]
So if IG goes under and G:T is out there, do you honestly expect anyone other
than SJG to pick up Traveller? I sure as heck wouldn't, just too much risk.
The most likely senario in this event is SJG getting the licence to produce
the offical timeline as well as the alternate one (which would kill the
alternate BTW). So lets not beat about the bush; if T4 fails, Traveller is
almost certain to die as an independent game. Sure no big deal to me or most
other established players, but while the 3rd Imperium might survive as part
of GURPS, the 3rd Imperium is not all there is to Traveller.

PS. I want to send this to IG, but I'm not sure who to send it to. Can anybody
give me any pointers?

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 00:15:38 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

Peter Newman wrote:

>>
>> Sqquullippptttttt!!!!!!
>>
>> <The sound of a mouthful of coke being expelled through my sinuses onto the
>> screen>
>>
>> Gah!  Rod, I think FS has a new conceptual engineer canidate here...
>>
>> Jump Projectors are huge, spinal mount weapons.
>
>Hey Rod, can I be a FS conceptual engineer candidate for designing the
>man portable TL 15 Meson Gun using FF&S1 ?


	Sure... I'm sure you'll appreciate the free detox fringe benefits
and no drug testing policy in the design bureau :).


Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 04:10:48 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: TNE Rules

Harold Hale wrote

> Peter Newman writes:
> 
> >>    I use the D10 *only* for fire combat, since using D10 for fist fights
> >> tends to make them a bit too short and bloody.
> >
> >But in real life (TM) a good martial artist can usually disable or kill
> >their opponent with 1 or (at most) 2 good blows if that is their
> >objective.  Maybe fist fights _should_ be short & bloody.  If you
> >disagree or are modeling a different paradigm that is also a perfectly
> >valid perspective, but is perhaps not as "realistic".
> 
>    My thinking, which I just expressed in a prior post, was that melee
> combat should be conducted in 1 second segments instead of the usual
> five seconds, which means you can perform 5 seperate melee combat
> segments during a regular 5 second combat turn.  Therefore while the
> martial artist with a sword is only doing D6s of damage, on average
> (since you usually don't fire your weapon five times in a combat turn)
> he can still inflict just as much damage (or more) as a guy holding a
> gauss pistol and firing twice.
> 
> Example: Thor strikes a bad guy with his trusty sword four times in a
> combat turn (he spent the other melee combat segment blocking).  Thor
> has a strength of 10.  Therefore his sword was able to do 8D6 of total
> damage (average of 3.5 x 8 = 28 pts.) to the bad guy, assuming no
> exceptional success.  Tony shoots a bad guy with his trusty gauss pistol
> twice in a combat turn (a third shot missed).  The gauss pistol does
> 2D10 damage.  Again assuming no exception success is rolled, Tony's
> pistol is able to do 4D10 of total damage (average of 5.5 x 4 = 22 pts.)
> to the bad guy.

But people can pull their trigger fingers a lot faster than other people
can swing swods several feet.  Why should the person with the melee
weapon get more actions than the person with the gun ?

> >>  If you do not like this reality, play the engineer who is
> >> always getting stuck back on the ship keeping the engine running.
> >
> >As the former player of an former Scout engineer charecter who (in MT)
> >interrupted a bank robbery by about 8 people with shotguns by throwing
> >her Frisbee at one of them I would like to strongly protest the notion
> >that the engineer is always stuck keeping the engine running.
> 
>    Well Xena  :-),

She was using a frisbee long before I ever heard of Xena.  During
charecter generation she had about Cr 11 left after buying a good Vac
suit & I needed to give her a cheap personalizing hobby trait (besides
borderline paranoia which was free and being a bi*** which was courtsey
of a Charisma (TNE import) of 4).  Thus was born the frisbee, at Cr 1 or
2 and 150 grams or so it fits in any charecters budget & luggage :) We
need official stats for the frisbee _now_, official stats for the
frisbee are almost as important a game need as official stats for the
milk bottle are :) 

On Esi-Obe an isolated planet within the Great Rift (Esi-obe Corridor
0638 A542886-C Po 211 Na G4 V N) one of the local daimyos had asked the
charecters what they did for exercise (most charecters were nobles & the
local noble interpreted Knight as = Samurai).  Sigrid pulled out her
frisbee and showed him how to invent them starting from peasants plastic
dinner plates.  The very next week fashionable young Samurai were using
frisbees with razor edges to decapitate "uppity" peasants.  The
resulting popular backlash caused a peasant reveolt that appeared to be
well on the way towards overthrowing the planetary government when the
charecters decised to get the h*** out of Dodge, as it were.

>who is going to keep the bad guys from breaking into
> your ship while the crew is away and doing acts of severe sabotage?  My
> players have learned through hard experience that security measures can
> be by-passed, and having somebody stand guard from inside (somebody who
> can also fly the ship and come rescue the rest of the party when they
> need it) is the only way to go.

The party I was in learned that if the ref wants your ship screwed your
ship will get screwed whether there is a guard or not, then you have a
corpse or a hostage rescue sitation as well.  In addition the session
will not be very much fun for the player whose charecter is stuck on the
ship. This is a game and is supposed to be fun. 

 Staying on the ship is for NPC's and the charecers of players who were
late to the session.  (Not to mention George the ships "Engineering"
robot who had integral Battle Dress skin "to protect against exteme
environmental conditions" and a PGMP "for rapid cutting and repair of
dammaged hull metal" who was invented & marketed by a very degenerate
sector wide corporation run by a noble ex scout sector administarator
with a larcenous bent.  George had a starhip kill marker painted on his
side for the 500 ton starship he had destroyed in persoanl combat -
courtsey of a well aimed shot at the power plant which resulted in a
series of cascade failures on the ship critical dammage chart.) We had
just crossed the Great Rift the hard way and needed some relaxation. 
For Sigrid this just happened to be swimming & playing frisbee.  For two
other members of the party it was shopping.  When they went to the bank
in the mall two blocks from the beach to convert their gold into
Imperial credits there just happened to be a bank robbery.  Naturally
upon hearing about the robbery over the ships com net Sigrid rushed to
help her shipmates.  Besides a 12 dice shotgun blast to the heart the
bank robbers also blew a hole in her frisbee.  When Sigrid sued the bank
for dammages (negligence in not preventing the robbery) she listed the
value of the Frisbee (TM) which she had picked up at campaign start on
Terra itself as Cr 10,000 or so because it would have cost a lot more
than that to import one from Terra to the Deneb Sector.  She then went
out and bought a local substitute for Cr 1 & pocketed the rest of her
winnings.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 09:19:54 -0400
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Armour and 50km rocks. . . .

OK, is it just me, or do any of you smell anything fishy here?

To whit:

>>	Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
>>FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?
>
>What kind?

>Generic planetary crust?
>
>Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>


It seems to me that ol' Darroch is up to something BAD again.  Sadly, I 
know what it is.  You are all going to REALLY regret this one, and only 
the threat of imminent lawsuit keeps me from spilling it early to save 
your (albeit already suspect) group sanity.

*sigh*

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 09:24:34 -0400
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1888

Traveller-digest 27/9/97 9:33 pm

>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:00:41 -0500
>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
>Subject: Thermonuclear fusion question...
>
>	Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules
>worth of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of
>liquid hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?
>
>Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

See?  He's at it again!  Someone stop him before he breeds. . . .

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 10:46:52 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...

Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

>         Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules
> worth of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of
> liquid hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?
>
> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

UNHH. I think I'm going back to reading the TML from that near-c rock-proof
shelter I built when I first joined this list!

"Mommmmmy, that man scarrred meeee!"
"It's alright Mikey, just get in the shelter....NOW!"
(Sound of VERY thick superdense door slamming shut)

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:51:17 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller

David, I've cut out a lot of your last message. That dosen't mean that I
agree with you, just that I don't feel the desire to keep on going over
the same disagreements over and over again. You do, however propound a few
fallacies that are so obvious that I'm convinced you will only need to have
them pointed out to you to realize your mistake. Also, you have misread 
some of my arguments so seriously that I must have expressed myself very
clumsily, so I suppose I owe it to you to explain them.

David P. Summers writes:
>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>

>Well, as I have said, I really don't agree that traffic regulations
>would be seen as warranted by the threat.  However, in any case, when
> a patrol ships pulls up for yet another routine inspection would be
> a good time to launch a suprise attack.
> 
>>Have you ever played a TCS campaign? Did you put out scouts in every system
>>you owned (and a lot you didn't)? Did you put pickets in all your systems?
>>I did. And I _claim_ that anyone with a bit of sense would do the same.
>>Those pickets might as well earn their keep by taking care of any passing
>>pirates.
> 
>I don't believe a scout in a system will be enough to stop piracy for
>reasons I have elucidated concerning it's lack of coverage and
>insufficient firepower.

Of course a scout will not be able to prevent anything. It will even have
instructions to remain quiscent no matter what. A scout is supposed to get
information. Scouts do mean that pirates will have to base themselves in
deep space rather than in empty systems, which will increase their overhead.
You overlooked that the ships I said might as well do a spot of work are
the pickets. 
 
>>when an expense applies equally to everybody, as this one
>>will, no one can undercut their business rivals by avoiding the expense, so
>>no one will have an interest in getting rid of it.
> 
>But the same thing applies to piracy.

Sure. But the thing that applies to piracy and dosen't apply to traffic
control is that everybody agrees that piracy is a bad thing while not
everybody agrees that traffic control is a bad thing.

>I have.  If you missed it, e-mail me and I will reiterate (but please
>be brief, I don't have a lot of time to reiterate arguements).

If you want to reply by e-mail, go ahead.
 
>Well, now we are back to more than one scout ships gaurding a system.

I never went away from it. The major point of my argument is not that it
dosen't take considerable assets to suppress piracy, but that it takes
considerably less than is available. A situation that has its parrallels
in Earth history: piracy flourishes when the forces of law and order are 
weak and languish when they are strong.

>Or he simply can jump in and take targets of opportunity.   

Fallacy. See below.

>Low level piracy has been tolerated by governments in numerous historical 
>situation.  

But never when those governments had sufficient patrol ships to do something
about it. There's a difference between ignoring piracy somewhere because you 
don't have the ships to deal with it and ignoring it when you do have them.

>>I maintain that using 1/1000th of your naval budget to suppress piracy
>>sounds worth it to avoid having to soothe angry delegations of merchants
>>who wants Something Done About This Outrage.
> 
>Well, I simply don't agree that you can do it with a scout ship in a system. 

It's a good thing I never claimed that, then, because I don't agree with
that either.

The average population of a Traveller world is 1.5 billion (The Imperium
of 1100 has 10,000 worlds and 15 trillion inhabitants). On the average out
of 36 planets you have:

1 with population 0
2  "      -"-     1
3  "      -"-     2
4  "      -"-     3
5  "      -"-     4
6  "      -"-     5
5  "      -"-     6
4  "      -"-     7
3  "      -"-     8
2  "      -"-     9
1  "      -"-     A

With a total population of 540 billion people (36*1.5 billion).

At Cr500 per person in naval taxes you get a naval budget of 270,000,000 MCr.
Let's err on the side of caution and cut that by a third = 180,000,000 MCr.
Such a budget represents a fleet costing 1,800,000,000 MCr. 1/1000th of that
is 1,800,000 MCr. 200 T patrol cruisers are used for piracy suppression, so
presumably they are a match for the average pirate; you can get about 7000
patrol cruisers for 1,800,000 MCr. But let's say the Navy thinks patrol
ships are sissy and opts for 1200 T Kinunir Class ships instead. You can
get about 1,800 Kinunirs for 1,800,000 MCr. (All figures are CT).

System defense budgets for your average population 7 world is 70% of 
7,500 MCr, which gives such a world a system defense force equivalent to
roughly 50 Kinunirs (or 200 patrol ships). I think the average pop 7
world can take care of itself, but let's again err on the side of caution
and only postulate that the six worlds of population 8, 9, and 10 can
deal with pirates on their own. That leaves 30 out of the 36 worlds to
spread those 1,800 Kinunirs around on, or 60 apiece _on the average_.
And that's without counting the 200 Kinunirs (or the equivalent) that
the 4 pop 7 worlds can have on their own and the 25 that the 5 pop 6
worlds can have.

I think that would be enough to make life tedious for most pirates,
don't you?

>Most systems are going to have traffic in and out of gas giants, worlds 
>being mined, and any world with a population. 

Except that very few systems will have traffic in and out of Gas Giants
I agree with you. But there will be a correlation between the population
of the system and the number of places with activity, won't there? I mean,
very few of the systems with less than a 1000 people will have them spread
out across the system. That's 6 (or let's call it 5) of our 30 systems that
only require one spot guarded. Put 5 Kinunirs in each of those and you have
1775, an average of 71 left for the 25 other systems. I'm sure you can see
where this is going. The average number of places to guard in a system is
not going to be anywhere near 10, and if it was, we could put 6 Kinunirs
(or, more likely, 1 Kinunir and 20 patrol cruisers) in each spot on the 
proposed budget.

>>Remember that the communication lag applies equally to the pirates. If you
>>have a few cruisers visiting the pickets on a random basis, the pirates
>>(the hypothetical band of pirates who won't exist if single pirates can't
>>make a living) won't know if they are commiting suicide when they try to
>>jump in and surprise the patrol.
> 
>No.  If they spot the cruiser they just move on.  The fact is that
>such random patrols are ineffective in stopping hit and run attacks.

Either the pirates jump in blind near a spot where they have a chance to
surprise prey, in which case they arrive within range of any armed ships
stationed there, or they arrive out of range of the patrols, in which
case they will be too far from their prey to surprise it. You're trying
to have it both ways, and it can't be done.
 
>>And, again, a pirate don't like fighting navy ships; there's no future 
>in it.
> 
>Well, this is true if they are out matched.  If the pirates match
>the Imperium and attack with surprise, then there can well be a future
>in it.

Same mistake. Either the pirates jump into a system cautiously, in which
case the patrol ships _and all the merchants they are guarding_ can get
away by jumping, or they take a chance on surprising the patrol ships.
And in the latter case, if they pull it off, the Navy send out more ships
(they do have 999 times more where the first ones came from), while the 
pirates only have to be unlucky once for the whole thing to be over.

>>Btw., you can keep a cruiser permanently with quite a few of the patrols 
>>and still keep within the budget I postulate.
> 
>Yeah, but can you keep dozens to hundreds of them at every system?
>If not, the pirates will just attack where they aren't.

Same mistake again. The pirates labor under the same two-week information
delay that everybody else does. There's no way they can know if a rowing 
patrol will be there when they jump in.

Then there's the question of how the pirates got together a fleet that
can challenge around 6,000 T worth of warship in the first place. In
order to be assured of a relatively cheap victory the pirate fleet has
to outnumber the patrol considerably. The average Vargr corsair band 
will have trouble with that. Add a few cruisers (and I admit you will
have to dig into the remaining 999/1000th of the budget for that)and even 
the Vargr will decide to look elsewhere. Another 1/1000th will buy you 1000 
30,000 T light cruisers or about 33 per system on the average; that ought
to do it.
 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1890
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 28 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1891



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
What We Want
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1889
Re: Rumor or fact??
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: Rumor or fact??
Re: Coke projectors
Imperial Integration System 1.0
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1889
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1889
Re: Armour and 50km rocks. . . .

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 09:56:58 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...

At 11:49 pm 9/27/97 -0700, you wrote:
>At 09:00 PM 9/27/97 -0500, Roderick wrote:
>
>>	Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules
>>worth of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of
>>liquid hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?
>
>First he wants to know the armor value for 50km of rock, now this.
>
>I am *really* afraid of this man....

	Be even more afraid, for I have an answer for him ...

From a 13 Feb 97 post by David Crew, fusing 10Td of hydrogen will release
approximately 20,000,000 TJ of energy (that's 20,000,000,000,000,000,000J).
So your 1Td will give you 2,000,000TJ at 100% efficiency. Pick your
efficiency level (PLEASE!!!! Around 1% or less ...), and vape'em.

- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 10:06:15 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

At 08:11 pm 9/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>David J. Golden wrote:
>
>> At 10:29 am 9/27/97 -0400, CardSharks@aol.com wrote:
>> >In a message dated 97-09-26 07:50:12 EDT, you write:
>>         For those who are interested in differently-proportioned configurations
>> from those in FF&S2, I've posted the way I came up with the surface and
>> dimension factors at
>>
>>

www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Admiralty/Shipyard/FFSNotes/FFS2Notes.html


>At any rate thanks for the insight and the link, I'm on my way there now...


Whoops! A mild case of premature posting, there ... the link doesn't work
yet, but should work soon. Until then, the Excel spreadsheet is at

http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller/Admiralty/Shipyard/HullShape.xls.

If it's not in either place, FrontPage 98 screwed me again.)
- -- Dave Golden                  http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj --
   goldendj@pcisys.net                       finger for PGP key
    *** USE OF THE ABOVE EMAIL FOR SOLICITATION PROHIBITED ***

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:33:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

In a message dated 97-09-27 18:10:00 EDT, you write:

<<  While I am including them in the spread sheet I'm working on I fully intend
to ignore them when working with deck plans, making the plans fit my own view.
Hieght:Width:Length aren't fixed in the real world, why should they be in
Traveller, except as determined by mission etc. >>

I agree. But somewhere, we have to (or should) specify dimensions for the
standard hulls. 

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:33:47 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: What We Want

Ok, assuming that IG haven't had a negligent discharge of the Jump
Projector Gun (!) and taken themselves off the map. Assuming that there is
still a Traveller, let's have a think about this:

1. Most of us seem to think that Traveller is basically great, with
some/many/heaps of flaws.

2. Most of us agree that IG hasn't implemented our pet 'fix'

3. Most of us agree that many/most of the products are useable, but flawed.

Yes? No?

Right then. 

Let us see what we all want. I don't mean which supplement or huge sweeping
change. I mean what feasable changes can be made to future products to make
them wonderful....
Here's my pitch for What I Want From IG:

	1. Adequate proofreading and editing, even if it slows things down.

	2. An integrated system, such that FFS2 is useable (IF desired)
	
	3. Text on the back covers. (see below)

	4. Backup for the loyal fans who've bought the (flawed?) products so far,
such that we don't have to buy the new versions unless we feel like it.

(Text: I always wanted text on the back cover. We got it with PE but it was
badly done. Next time it'll be properly laid out and punctuated. A steady
improvement.)

	Traveller looks good on the shelf, but the casual browser will be turned
off by simple presentation errors. So what I want most of all is to FIX
THOSE PRESENTATION ERRORS! Content of the recent materials is, after all,
excellent. 

	Now: here's my plan - we compile a list of what we want, numbers of people
here on the list who agreed, and send it to IG. That way they'll know what
we want. If they then fail to deliver, we can all get upset about it and
wait for GURPS Traveller (not me. It's T4 or back to the house rules!)
	
	But hey - it'll all be fixed with T4.1.

	Won't it?

	Martin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:40:23 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:26:13 -0700 (MST), Bruce Johnson wrote:

> On the other hand, so to speak, knowing the dimensions of various parts of
> your body makes for very handy, built in rulers. If I stretch out my left
> hand as far as I can, it measures 8 1/2 inches from tip of my little
> finger to the tip of my thumb; my right hand is a half-inch longer.

I wonder how many fathers passed on this little trick to their sons :)

> Good
> enough for approximate rule-of-thumb measurements in the hardware store
> when, as usual, the tape measure is buried somewhere in the mess at home.

Strange.  If I find myself in a hardware store without a tape measure and I
have to measure something, I simply "borrow" one of theirs off the shelf :)



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:24:02 -0400
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1889

Someone who's name has been misplaced wrote:
> ><< I did notice that the proportions he gave for the wedge hull were 1:1 
> > height:width, whereas the FF&S2 one is 1:2.4:3.5 height:width:length...>>

and Dave wrote:

<Deletage>

> 	BTW, I don't know where the FF&S2 wedge proportions came from ... that was
> something that didn't get done! I'll come up with the equations and post
> them this week.

Actually these FF&S2 numbers look like they come from the FF&S2 Errata List
on my Web page.  The omission of the wedge numbers was pointed out on the
GDW-Beta list.  However since no one supplied the missing information, I went
ahead and calculated the missing numbers base on the classic Scout/Courier
and the Length Multiplier from the original FF&S.  BTW, if anyone is
interested my FF&S Errata list is located at:

"http://users.aol.com/ogerdude/ffs-errata.htm"

Chris Cox
"Investment banking galley slave in New York City"
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
The Draconis Cluster Traveller pages
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:26:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rumor or fact??

>My local gamestore owner told me yesterday that GURPS now owns the
>rights to the Traveller name and IG will no longer be involved in
>producing game material once their current contract ends. Marc Miller,
>he said would only be involved peripherally in game product design,
>and the "alternate history" GURPS was starting would become the
>"official" one.

Sounds to me like he's just terribly confused.  My understanding is that
GURPS Traveller is going to be, like most of the GURPS books, a one shot.
 The alternate history (and I believe, although I may be incorrect, that both
Marc Miller and Loren Wiseman both said this.  At any rate, I'm pretty sure
that Loren did.) will be just that, and alternate history.

And seeing as this agreement was made about a month ago, and since then
Emperor's Vehicles has come out, I don't think that he's right.

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:29:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

>True, but someone well versed in Traveller should have reviewed the site,
>pointed out the mistake, and had it fixed.  (The other typos require no
>special knowledge of Traveller)  Would have taken 5 minutes to fix the typo,
>another 5 minutes publishing it.   I write internal web pages/applications
>for the number three supplier of financial information in the world.  On a
>busy day, it might take me an hour from the moment I finds out about a typo
>to it being fixed. 

Well, hell.  What can I say.  There was more than one typo on the page.  I'm
still not terribly horrified.  I just can't get up a full head of steam about
this.  It is, after all, a webpage.  People make mistakes.  How about you
take that list of typos on the page that you made to show how incompetent IG
is and *SEND* it to IG so that they can fix their mistakes?

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:36:11 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Rumor or fact??

On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:02:48 GMT, John Lansford wrote:

> My local gamestore owner told me yesterday that GURPS now owns the
> rights to the Traveller name and IG will no longer be involved in
> producing game material once their current contract ends. Marc Miller,
> he said would only be involved peripherally in game product design,
> and the "alternate history" GURPS was starting would become the
> "official" one.

Ack!  *If* this rumour was true, I'd say that Traveller as we know it would
cease to exist for many Traveller fans, just like the introduction to TNE
did to so many others.  Just imagine the only remaining "canon" character
generation system consisting of GURPS' own point-based system, or the EDU
or SOC stats being reduced to Advantages and/or Disadvantages (not to
mention the metric/imperial and TL issues).  It would simply be too far of
a stretch from the traditional Traveller rules that have existed in the
last four editions for many people to support.

Once SJG gets a hold of the rights to Traveller, it would be highly
unlikely that someone else could obtain them so as to begin producing
Traveller as it was originally done by GDW.  Additionally, I very much
doubt that SJG would support G:T anywhere near as much as IG-- it's just
not possible under a "generic" rules system.  Give me a small gaming
company like IG, with their-- albeit error-ridden-- Traveller-specific
products, over SJG, with G:T & one or two other Traveller-specific
sourcebooks (not including Ultra-Tech, whose science isn't "hard" enough
for many Traveller players), any day.

**shudder**

[snip]

> Has anyone heard something of this or is this just something the owner
> got terribly confused?

I really, REALLY hope this guy is wrong...



James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:49:07 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Coke projectors

> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
> >What rules book are "Jump Projectors" in?  and do they have
> >"man-portable" versions?
> Sqquullippptttttt!!!!!!
> Gah!  Rod, I think FS has a new conceptual engineer canidate here...
> Jump Projectors are huge, spinal mount weapons.

Jump projectors, fah... MT listed the same thingy that
the Star Wars guys love to throw around... the 
'Jump Supressor' AKA 'Hyperspace Interdictor'.

Who wants to _make_ ships jump? (Well, ok, me, sure)
Much better - preventing people from jumping. Keeps
those damn scouts & couriers from jumping off with news
of battle...

A show of hands - in a fleet action, which would
you rather have, a jump projector or a jump interdictor?

A jump interdictor would be easier to make than a jump
projector, as all you have to do is crank up a gravity
well big enough to make people think twice about jumping...
of course, creating such a gravity well would make it
pretty easy for missles to hit you (to say the least).
Maybe there's other ways to do it though.

Aside from the nagging doubt that the ship with the PCs
on it that's been jump-projected away from the field of battle
will show up at an inopportune moment for the bad guys
somewhere much later on, a jump projector is essentially 
a super-killer one-shot disentegrator, so I suppose it's not
much of a question.

(Doug, what you need, I suppose, is a 'Coke Interdictor'
for when you get surprised by TML posts...)

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                        ehenry@magma.ca

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 14:19:28 -0600
From: lguatney@carbon.cudenver.edu (Leroy William Lu Guatney)
Subject: Imperial Integration System 1.0

IMPERIAL INTEGRATION SYSTEM - IIS 1.0, by Leroy W.L. Guatney
- ------------------------------------------------------------
The Sylea Scale (SS) was first published in -2 by Josef Kammler, a well-
known sophontologist on Sylea.  Developed from a grant awarded to him by
Ling Standard Products (Marketing Unit), it was used as a scale to allow
ease of planning for the New Products division.
 
It measures, by means of two variables, the degree of integration into the
(then Federation) Imperial culture for any given world.  The variables
are denoted by SS(S) and SS(T), for Social and Technological integration.
 
The basic formulation was later adapted to some nearby Pocket Empires,
so in some cases, the "Sylea" Scale may be considered to be named
anachronistically.
 
 
Referee:  Evaluate the nature of the world and decide on which assignments
to SS(S) and SS(T) are appropriate.  If no ideas come to mind, the 2D6
table and DMs may be used.  Determine SS(S) or Social Integration first,
and then determine SS(T) or Technological Integration.  This system is
compatible with Pocket Empires and Milieu: 0 Campaign, and both books may
be referred to.
 
2D6 Code   Degree of Integration   Throw
- ----------------------------------------------
 2-  0     Completely Integrated     2+
 3   1     Completely Integrated
 4   2     Completely Integrated
 5   3     Highly Integrated         5+
 6   4     Highly Integrated
 7   5     Highly Integrated
 8   6     Moderately Integrated     7+
 9   7     Moderately Integrated
10   8     Somewhat Integrated       9+
11   9     Somewhat Integrated
12   A     Somewhat Integrated
13   B     Somewhat Integrated
14   C     Not Integrated            --
15   D     Not Integrated
16   E     Not Integrated
17+  F     Not Integrated
 
Interpretation
- --------------
  2D6   - Throw 2D6 plus DMs below
 
  Code  - The code to be recorded for determining Integration of the planet
 
  Degree of Integration -
 
    Completely Integrated:
      Just as if you were on Sylea.
 
    Highly Integrated:
      Strongly influenced by the Imperium, however there will still be
      ways that the planet/system has not adopted from Imperial society.
 
    Moderately Integrated:
      This system has not (likely) been a member of the Imperium for long.
      It maybe somewhat isolated from the jump routes making regular trade
      contact more difficult, or it may be a fairly new member of the
      Imperium.  There are plenty of reasons why this world is Moderately
      Integrated.
 
    Somewhat Integrated:
      Like Moderately Integrated, only even more so.
 
    Not Integrated:
      Likely a Pocket, a Pillar World, or an Interdicted planet/system.
 
  Throw - The 2D6 throw used by the referee to determine if the level of
          Integration permits something, i.e. "Does a Ling Standard Products
          store exist on this planet?", or "Can I find an LSP Inertial Locator"
          on this planet?", or "Will they recognize my Knighthood here?"
 
  Pillar Worlds
 
    A world that is not a member of the Imperium (or any Pocket Empire/Client
    State), and exceeds the maximum Tech Level for the Imperium at the time
    (C for years 0-99, D for years 100-199).
 
    For an example, see Gemid (Vland 1903).
 
 
Die Modifiers for SS(S) and SS(T)
- ---------------------------------
Worlds of the Imperium -
  Starport A-B:                              -4
  Starport C-D:                              -2
  Starport E:                                --
  Starport X:                                +6
  For each century in the Imperium           -1/century (while not X starport)
Worlds not in any Interstellar State -
  Starport A-B:                              +5
  Starport C-E:                              +8
  Starport X:                                +11
Universal Law Profile for all Worlds -
  Commerce 3-:                               -1
  Commerce B+:                               +2
  Communication 6+:                          +2
  Highest of Congregation, Movement or
   Privacy is 6+:                            +2
  Process 4-:                                +2
  Process D+:                                +3
 
If SS(S) > Code B     [i.e. roll+DMs > 13]
  SS(T) DM +8 as well
 
For Pillar Worlds both SS(S) and SS(T) are rolled as all above, but change
the world "Integration" to "Influenced".  This applies to non-member Worlds
near the Imperium, past a range the Referee decides is appropriate.
 
Obviously, a world too far away will not even have Imperial influence or
any degree of integration.
 
 
Die Modifiers to SS(S) and SS(T) for worlds detailed with Pocket Empires
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
World Character is -
  Progression is Radical/Reactionary         +3
  Planning is Very Long Term/Far Future      +2
  Advancement is Indifferent/Stagnant        +4
  Growth is Unaggressive/Passive             +1
  Militancy is Militant/Neutral              +2
  Unity is Discordant/Fragmented             +1
  Tolerance is Xenophilic/Aloof              +4
 
If a World is undergoing Technological Uplift/Advancement, the Referee
should not roll dice, but manually determine the SS(S) and SS(T) of the
world in question.
 
If the Sylea Scale is applied to a Pocket Empire, then the above system
is used substituting the Pocket Empire for Imperial mention above.
 
 
Other Die Modifiers
- -------------------
The referee should feel free to devise any other DMs that he/she feels
are appropriate.
 
 
An Example of Extremes
- ----------------------
 
Sylea (Core 2118)  -  SS(S) = 0, SS(T) = 0
Gemid (Vland 1903) -  SS(S) = D, SS(T) = F
 
 
Recommended References
- ----------------------
  Milieu 0 Campaign, Pocket Empires, First Survey, Milieu 0 Sourcebook


Leroy Guatney - lwlg@usa.net
 University of Mars, NorthAm Campus
 Class of '98

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:15:09 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1889

> He said this was in a trade paper but did not produce it. He may also
> have said it was in USA Today but I do not recall.

Since when has ANY news about the gaming industry, Traveller in particular,
or anything other than "D&D causes suicides" EVER appeared in USA TODAY???

Allen
 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:12:02 -0400
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1889

> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:02:48 GMT
> From: johnl@vnet.net (John Lansford)
> Subject: Rumor or fact??
> 
> My local gamestore owner told me yesterday that GURPS now owns the
> rights to the Traveller name and IG will no longer be involved in
> producing game material once their current contract ends. Marc Miller,
> he said would only be involved peripherally in game product design,
> and the "alternate history" GURPS was starting would become the
> "official" one.
> 
> He said this was in a trade paper but did not produce it. He may also
> have said it was in USA Today but I do not recall.
> 
> Anyway, he was quite certain about it, even after we told him nothing
> had been said about this on the Internet and Marc himself was online.
> 
> Has anyone heard something of this or is this just something the owner
> got terribly confused?

I don't know if this is true or not, but I do know that some people need to
sound like they are "in the know" even when they have NO clue what is going
on. We have a guy like this here. Not too long ago, we had a conversation
that went something like this:

ME: "Is Champions: New Millenium in yet?"

HIM: "It isn't out yet. I heard it won't be out for three months."

ME: "Funny, people on rec.games.frp.misc are talking about it already."

HIM: "Look, I'm in the business. I know it isn't out yet." (grumbling about
the "damn Internet"...I was the third person that day to tell him that it
WAS out.)

I. of course, drove the hour and 10 minutes to Lansing, MI, went to Rider's
Hobby Shop, and picked it up that same day. I DID take it back to him and
said "still think it isn't out?" I don't shop there anymore.

My strong suspicion is that this is merely rumor.

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 14:49:16 -0700
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Armour and 50km rocks. . . .

>From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
>Subject: Re: The T4 Fist
>
>Douglas wrote:
>
>> I can die now.
>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 09:19:54 -0400
>From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
>Subject: Re: Armour and 50km rocks. . . .
>
>OK, is it just me, or do any of you smell anything fishy here?
>
>To whit:
>
>>>	Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
>>>FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?
>>
>>What kind?
>>Generic planetary crust?
>>Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
>
>
>It seems to me that ol' Darroch is up to something BAD again.  Sadly, I 
>know what it is.  You are all going to REALLY regret this one, and only 
>the threat of imminent lawsuit keeps me from spilling it early to save 
>your (albeit already suspect) group sanity.
>*sigh*

It can't be *that* bad.  In one of Steve Higginbotham's
PBEM campaigns I presented him a detailed plan for a
space-marines assault on one of the other Islands powers'
asteroid habitats, including the ram-blast-and-board landing
ships with the 10-displacement-ton shaped charges built into
the bow for forcible entry.  This sort of brings the same idea
to mind, albeit on a bigger scale.

Who knows, though.  Maybe y'all will suprise us.

- -george


>From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1888
>
>Traveller-digest 27/9/97 9:33 pm
>
>>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:00:41 -0500
>>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
>>Subject: Thermonuclear fusion question...
>>
>>	Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules
>>worth of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of
>>liquid hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?
>>
>>Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
>
>See?  He's at it again!  Someone stop him before he breeds. . . .
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 10:46:52 -0400
>From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
>Subject: Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...
>
>Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:
>
>>         Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules
>> worth of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of
>> liquid hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?
>>
>> Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
>
>UNHH. I think I'm going back to reading the TML from that near-c rock-proof
>shelter I built when I first joined this list!
>
>"Mommmmmy, that man scarrred meeee!"
>"It's alright Mikey, just get in the shelter....NOW!"
>(Sound of VERY thick superdense door slamming shut)
>
>Mike Peters
>Letterworks@Comten.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:51:17 +0200 (METDST)
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>Subject: Re: Questions about Traveller
>
>David, I've cut out a lot of your last message. That dosen't mean that I
>agree with you, just that I don't feel the desire to keep on going over
>the same disagreements over and over again. You do, however propound a few
>fallacies that are so obvious that I'm convinced you will only need to have
>them pointed out to you to realize your mistake. Also, you have misread 
>some of my arguments so seriously that I must have expressed myself very
>clumsily, so I suppose I owe it to you to explain them.
>
>David P. Summers writes:
>>>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
>
>>Well, as I have said, I really don't agree that traffic regulations
>>would be seen as warranted by the threat.  However, in any case, when
>> a patrol ships pulls up for yet another routine inspection would be
>> a good time to launch a suprise attack.
>> 
>>>Have you ever played a TCS campaign? Did you put out scouts in every system
>>>you owned (and a lot you didn't)? Did you put pickets in all your systems?
>>>I did. And I _claim_ that anyone with a bit of sense would do the same.
>>>Those pickets might as well earn their keep by taking care of any passing
>>>pirates.
>> 
>>I don't believe a scout in a system will be enough to stop piracy for
>>reasons I have elucidated concerning it's lack of coverage and
>>insufficient firepower.
>
>Of course a scout will not be able to prevent anything. It will even have
>instructions to remain quiscent no matter what. A scout is supposed to get
>information. Scouts do mean that pirates will have to base themselves in
>deep space rather than in empty systems, which will increase their overhead.
>You overlooked that the ships I said might as well do a spot of work are
>the pickets. 
> 
>>>when an expense applies equally to everybody, as this one
>>>will, no one can undercut their business rivals by avoiding the expense, so
>>>no one will have an interest in getting rid of it.
>> 
>>But the same thing applies to piracy.
>
>Sure. But the thing that applies to piracy and dosen't apply to traffic
>control is that everybody agrees that piracy is a bad thing while not
>everybody agrees that traffic control is a bad thing.
>
>>I have.  If you missed it, e-mail me and I will reiterate (but please
>>be brief, I don't have a lot of time to reiterate arguements).
>
>If you want to reply by e-mail, go ahead.
> 
>>Well, now we are back to more than one scout ships gaurding a system.
>
>I never went away from it. The major point of my argument is not that it
>dosen't take considerable assets to suppress piracy, but that it takes
>considerably less than is available. A situation that has its parrallels
>in Earth history: piracy flourishes when the forces of law and order are 
>weak and languish when they are strong.
>
>>Or he simply can jump in and take targets of opportunity.   
>
>Fallacy. See below.
>
>>Low level piracy has been tolerated by governments in numerous historical 
>>situation.  
>
>But never when those governments had sufficient patrol ships to do something
>about it. There's a difference between ignoring piracy somewhere because you 
>don't have the ships to deal with it and ignoring it when you do have them.
>
>>>I maintain that using 1/1000th of your naval budget to suppress piracy
>>>sounds worth it to avoid having to soothe angry delegations of merchants
>>>who wants Something Done About This Outrage.
>> 
>>Well, I simply don't agree that you can do it with a scout ship in a system. 
>
>It's a good thing I never claimed that, then, because I don't agree with
>that either.
>
>The average population of a Traveller world is 1.5 billion (The Imperium
>of 1100 has 10,000 worlds and 15 trillion inhabitants). On the average out
>of 36 planets you have:
>
>1 with population 0
>2  "      -"-     1
>3  "      -"-     2
>4  "      -"-     3
>5  "      -"-     4
>6  "      -"-     5
>5  "      -"-     6
>4  "      -"-     7
>3  "      -"-     8
>2  "      -"-     9
>1  "      -"-     A
>
>With a total population of 540 billion people (36*1.5 billion).
>
>At Cr500 per person in naval taxes you get a naval budget of 270,000,000 MCr.
>Let's err on the side of caution and cut that by a third = 180,000,000 MCr.
>Such a budget represents a fleet costing 1,800,000,000 MCr. 1/1000th of that
>is 1,800,000 MCr. 200 T patrol cruisers are used for piracy suppression, so
>presumably they are a match for the average pirate; you can get about 7000
>patrol cruisers for 1,800,000 MCr. But let's say the Navy thinks patrol
>ships are sissy and opts for 1200 T Kinunir Class ships instead. You can
>get about 1,800 Kinunirs for 1,800,000 MCr. (All figures are CT).
>
>System defense budgets for your average population 7 world is 70% of 
>7,500 MCr, which gives such a world a system defense force equivalent to
>roughly 50 Kinunirs (or 200 patrol ships). I think the average pop 7
>world can take care of itself, but let's again err on the side of caution
>and only postulate that the six worlds of population 8, 9, and 10 can
>deal with pirates on their own. That leaves 30 out of the 36 worlds to
>spread those 1,800 Kinunirs around on, or 60 apiece _on the average_.
>And that's without counting the 200 Kinunirs (or the equivalent) that
>the 4 pop 7 worlds can have on their own and the 25 that the 5 pop 6
>worlds can have.
>
>I think that would be enough to make life tedious for most pirates,
>don't you?
>
>>Most systems are going to have traffic in and out of gas giants, worlds 
>>being mined, and any world with a population. 
>
>Except that very few systems will have traffic in and out of Gas Giants
>I agree with you. But there will be a correlation between the population
>of the system and the number of places with activity, won't there? I mean,
>very few of the systems with less than a 1000 people will have them spread
>out across the system. That's 6 (or let's call it 5) of our 30 systems that
>only require one spot guarded. Put 5 Kinunirs in each of those and you have
>1775, an average of 71 left for the 25 other systems. I'm sure you can see
>where this is going. The average number of places to guard in a system is
>not going to be anywhere near 10, and if it was, we could put 6 Kinunirs
>(or, more likely, 1 Kinunir and 20 patrol cruisers) in each spot on the 
>proposed budget.
>
>>>Remember that the communication lag applies equally to the pirates. If you
>>>have a few cruisers visiting the pickets on a random basis, the pirates
>>>(the hypothetical band of pirates who won't exist if single pirates can't
>>>make a living) won't know if they are commiting suicide when they try to
>>>jump in and surprise the patrol.
>> 
>>No.  If they spot the cruiser they just move on.  The fact is that
>>such random patrols are ineffective in stopping hit and run attacks.
>
>Either the pirates jump in blind near a spot where they have a chance to
>surprise prey, in which case they arrive within range of any armed ships
>stationed there, or they arrive out of range of the patrols, in which
>case they will be too far from their prey to surprise it. You're trying
>to have it both ways, and it can't be done.
> 
>>>And, again, a pirate don't like fighting navy ships; there's no future 
>>in it.
>> 
>>Well, this is true if they are out matched.  If the pirates match
>>the Imperium and attack with surprise, then there can well be a future
>>in it.
>
>Same mistake. Either the pirates jump into a system cautiously, in which
>case the patrol ships _and all the merchants they are guarding_ can get
>away by jumping, or they take a chance on surprising the patrol ships.
>And in the latter case, if they pull it off, the Navy send out more ships
>(they do have 999 times more where the first ones came from), while the 
>pirates only have to be unlucky once for the whole thing to be over.
>
>>>Btw., you can keep a cruiser permanently with quite a few of the patrols 
>>>and still keep within the budget I postulate.
>> 
>>Yeah, but can you keep dozens to hundreds of them at every system?
>>If not, the pirates will just attack where they aren't.
>
>Same mistake again. The pirates labor under the same two-week information
>delay that everybody else does. There's no way they can know if a rowing 
>patrol will be there when they jump in.
>
>Then there's the question of how the pirates got together a fleet that
>can challenge around 6,000 T worth of warship in the first place. In
>order to be assured of a relatively cheap victory the pirate fleet has
>to outnumber the patrol considerably. The average Vargr corsair band 
>will have trouble with that. Add a few cruisers (and I admit you will
>have to dig into the remaining 999/1000th of the budget for that)and even 
>the Vargr will decide to look elsewhere. Another 1/1000th will buy you 1000 
>30,000 T light cruisers or about 33 per system on the average; that ought
>to do it.
> 
>
>
>      Hans Rancke
>University of Copenhagen
>     rancke@diku.dk
>- ------------
>        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
>         events based on the individual situation."
>                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1890
>***********************************
>
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------------------------------

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 28 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1892



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Advanced Order
Re: IG, Quality and the future (very long)
Cred
Agreement!
RE: The T4 Fist
Re: T4.1 ETA?
Jump Supressor
Fie on Gamestore owners!
Intercepted Spofulam Internal Memo IY 014-016
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
RE: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
Re: starship design in T4.1
us today
Re: Agreement!
Re: TNE Rules and .5d
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Re: TNE Rules
Re: TNE Rules
Re: Rumor or fact??

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:25:55 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Advanced Order

	Ian or Katts wrote:

>
>To : Hengbar
>From : Davar hault-Verwell
>Re : Advanced Order
>
>My dear Hengbar,
>
>While at the salon, I heard a rumour you were planning on a man-portable
>black hole gun.
>
>Is it available in puce, and can I get it in autofire ?
>
>Yours with kisses,
>
>Davar

	Dear Davar:

	I regret to have to inform you that the rumours have played you
false.  While the destructive potential of a black hole gun is enough to
make anyone salivate, our BHG-MP project was sadly canned at the concept
level due to some severe difficulties with recoil, quite aside from the
problems of safe ammunition storage, let alone obtaining a consistent
supply of black holes of identical caliber.

	Quite simply, our projections indicated that in order to obtain
anywhere near a respectable muzzle velocity, the recoil produced would
launch the shooter backwards at relativistic speeds.  In fact, the weapon
syste, as initially concieve, would more accurately be described as a
"Black Hole-anchored hypervelocity shooter and gun launch system".

	This problem is inherent in any weapon system where the projectile
is a ludicrously large number of orders of magnitude more massive than the
shooter and weapon system combined.  My progeny down in the design bureau
indicated that this could be palliated by the incorporation into the weapon
of a very large number of dreadnought-sized thruster plate drives with
fusion plants to match, and reduction of the muzzle velocity to a few
millimeter/minutes, provided the shooter took a long running start.
Shortly thereafter the grandchild in charge of the project determined that
creeping feature bloat was turning the weapon system from a small arm into
a super-mega-dreadnought class naval vessel many times larger than anything
built by the Imperium to date, and with heavy hearts we decided to
terminate the project.

	However, should we ever overcome the technological hurdles required
to implement such a system, I will personally ensure that the first
production unit will be coloured puce, specially for you.

		With affection,

		Henagabar.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:51:26 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: IG, Quality and the future (very long)

Very good synopsis.  I want to get gearhead stuff like FF&S-II, but
without the erros and leave-outs.

As to Gurps Traveller, I won't touch it.  Not at all.  I want the REAL
Traveller.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:47:05 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Cred

How To Lose Your Credibility In A Traveller Game:

1. Upon hearing mention of an M-type star, carefully and slowly explain
that M-type is a planet description, meaning Earth-Like, and that the
referee has clearly made a mistake - but you don't mind.
2. Say loudly, "Okay, we'll lock a tractor beam on and pull it in."
3. Try to explain Jump space, when you've no idea yourself what it is.
4. Ask another player what 'class' his/her character is, and how many hit
points they have.
5. Try to buy a Battlemech.

I know a player who did all of these in the space of three hours. 
And you wonder why I despair sometimes?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:37:12 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Agreement!

I agree with what Andrew Moffatt-Vallance said about everything. Totally.

Ship's Engineers: Well, there's Costos Strinsis, who I played for about
half the Traveller Adventure.
Along the way he became an accidental porn star of some interstellar
repute, became more paranoid than usual and spent a lot of time locked in
the March Harrier's gig fondling his sawnoff shotgun....
Costos was great to play. Always in trouble. Never left behind on the ship
(the characters were a little afraid he'd weld himself in in a fit of
paranoia.) Costos also had an unfortunate history of breaking things
(Plates, Shovels, J-Drives....)

Who says Engineers are dull?

Finally - can anyone help me with an old argument: How much energy would be
required to crack an earth-Type planet in two, assuming Terra-like tectonic
plates?

Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:08:03 -0700
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: The T4 Fist

Let's just say you have...impact.  Something in the order of MRL!  :)

- ----------
From: 	Kenneth Bearden[SMTP:dreamer@brokersys.com]
Sent: 	Saturday, September 27, 1997 8:26 PM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	Re: The T4 Fist

Douglas wrote:

> I can die now.
> 
> Ken is supporting 1/2 die rolls...  ;)

Man!  I didn't realize I was so infamous.

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:00:42 +1000
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Re: T4.1 ETA?

Hi Kevin,

>First, how soon in T4.1 due out?  I only have CT stuff, but don't want to buy
>T4 and have T4.1 come out two weeks later (I got burned on GURPS basic this
>way).

Originally end of June, then in time for GenCon. The latest date I've heard
is some time in November. Not that I'm complaining - I would _much_ rather
that IG/Marc took their time, and got everything absolutely right than have
them rush it out and have lots of glaring errors/typos in it (again). So
far everthing looks promising...


>Also, re: pricing.  On the web site, the software T4 is listed as $11.00 on
>the catalog screen and the order form.  However, it is listed as $25.00 on
>the
>information screen.  Which is right?

The current T4 softcover is $11. I guess this is to clear stock, and get
people interested in T4 so that they buy T4.1. Last I saw T4.1 was going to
be a bit over $30 (they kept changing the price at one stage, but it has
been stable for the last two months or so).

BTW, if you are so inclined you can pre-order the T4.1 book. I've done so.

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:14:14 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Jump Supressor

Wouldn't a tractor beam work as a jump suppressor? I mean, after all, you
are applying a gravity field to a target ship. If so, then you have
effective jump suppressors by TL 16 (short range) and by TL 18 (long range
- -- probably the only combat-effective ones).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 97 20:30:03 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Fie on Gamestore owners!

On 09/28/97 at 05:12 PM,  "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net> said:

>> Has anyone heard something of this or is this just something the owner
>> got terribly confused?

>I don't know if this is true or not, but I do know that some people need
>to sound like they are "in the know" even when they have NO clue what is
>going on. We have a guy like this here. Not too long ago, we had a
>conversation that went something like this:

>ME: "Is Champions: New Millenium in yet?"

>HIM: "It isn't out yet. I heard it won't be out for three months."

>ME: "Funny, people on rec.games.frp.misc are talking about it already."

>HIM: "Look, I'm in the business. I know it isn't out yet." (grumbling
>about the "damn Internet"...I was the third person that day to tell him
>that it WAS out.)

>I. of course, drove the hour and 10 minutes to Lansing, MI, went to
>Rider's Hobby Shop, and picked it up that same day. I DID take it back to
>him and said "still think it isn't out?" I don't shop there anymore.

Is there something about Gamestore owners?  My NFLGS's
owner/clerks/"guys that hang out in the back room" are the same way. Throw
in a smirk and a condesending attitude toward anyone interested in anything
not made by TSR or WW, and they match exactly.

I *would* support that store if they were worth squat!  As it is, anything
I buy now I have to special order, and with special orders you don't get a
chance to browse and make an informed buying decision...<grumble, grumble>

>My strong suspicion is that this is merely rumor.

It's my strong suspicion that it's total bunk.  Maybe even FUD!

Eris,
    grumpy old coot, in training.
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 21:56:29 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Intercepted Spofulam Internal Memo IY 014-016

From:	Niipita Indifar Spofulam, Head, Starship weapons division
To:	Hengabar Spofulam
Re:	Project: Concealable Light Low-Lethality Thud Gun
Date:	002-016

******************************************************************

Dear Uncle Hengie:

	I'm sorry to report that initial feasibility studies demonstrate
that Cousin Shidaar's concept for a ship-based anti-Deep Meson Site mass
driver is somewhat flawed.

	To recap, Cousin Shidaar's concept was that of a HEAP gauss round
scaled up by several orders of magnitude; a 10m diameter by 50-odd meter
mass driver projectile, containing 2 displacement tons of liquid hydrogen
as coolant and fusion mass, was to be accelerated via a spinally mounted
mass driver to velocities exceeding 25,000 meters/second.  The projectile
was to mass approximately 58,900 tons.  The LHyd coolant, serving as
refrigerant to lower the round's IR signature, was to run through piping
running through the projectile and expand upon heating into a hemispherical
cavity located towards the rear of the projectile.

	Upon impact, the kinetic energy released would be on the order of a
1.4 megaton nuclear detonation.  As the slug drove through the surface of
the planet, disintegrating from the high energies released, compression
effects would compact the hydrogen into the top of the dome-shaped
detonation chamber, where the heat created by impact would ignite a fusion
explosion, focussed by the shape of the detonation chamber and tamped to a
small extent by the remaining mass and velocity of the projectile.  The
resulting explosion (of approximately 4 megatons at estimated efficiency of
<1%), when combined with the  extremely high impact velocity of the
superdense projectile, was to be sufficient enough to blast through the
planet's crust and destroy the targeted deep meson site.

	Had the weapon worked as projected, this would have resulted in a
means of eliminating deep meson sites from beyond their lethal radius,
while causing minimal (relatively speaking) collateral damage to the
planet; the destruction caused would have been limited relative to the
depth of the impact compared to the use of high-yield fusion devices of
comparable yield; total devastation, and climatological and other
environmental damage would have been relatively limited.

	However, after running the numbers through some preliminary models,
it is estimated that due to the extremely high energy levels involved, the
penetrative HEAP-analogue effect that Cousin Shidaar envisioned would not
occur; even superdense has its limits.  The slug would simply vapourize
before digging too deep, causing precisely the sort of widespread massive
destruction that the weapon concept was to avoid.  When following standard
crater-producing models on a typical Sylean-norm planet, it is estimated
that assuming fusion detonation took place as projected (which is far from
certain), the crater produced would be somewhat over 850 meters in diameter
and somewhat less deep.  The destructive radius of the blast would of
course be much larger, on a par with a 4.3 megaton yield thermonuclear
device.  Thus, the destructive effect of the projectile would be
insufficient to accomplish its goal of deep meson site neutralization.

	Of course, while the ability to cause this sort of damage to a
target is eminently desirable, there are far less expensive means of
causing it than Cousin Shidaar's outsize mass driver.  Scaling up the
projectile size and velocity would increase costs (both of weapon system
and platform) proportionately, not to mention crater size and collateral
damage.  Thus, I cannot recommend that we proceed with the development of
this weapon system until materials technology progresses to the point where
a projectile as described above would not vapourize upon impact.  This
development is unlikely in the short to medium term.

	To conclude, while his concept is fundamentally flawed, Cousin
Shidaar has nevertheless demonstrated exceptional talent for a 7-year-old,
and I would suggest that we shunt him into the extremely enriched
educational program at the creche.

	Your affectionate niece,

	Niipie.

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 21:14:08 -0500
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

> From: SemoFetus@aol.com
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
> Date: Sunday, September 28, 1997 12:29 PM
> 
> >True, but someone well versed in Traveller should have reviewed the
site,
> >pointed out the mistake, and had it fixed.  (The other typos require no
> >special knowledge of Traveller)  Would have taken 5 minutes to fix the
typo,
> >another 5 minutes publishing it.   I write internal web
pages/applications
> >for the number three supplier of financial information in the world.  On a
> >busy day, it might take me an hour from the moment I finds out about a typo
> >to it being fixed. 
> 
> Well, hell.  What can I say.  There was more than one typo on the page.  I'm
> still not terribly horrified.  I just can't get up a full head of steam about

I'm not 'terrible horrified', it's just more of the same.

> this.  It is, after all, a webpage.  People make mistakes.  How about you
> take that list of typos on the page that you made to show how incompetent IG
> is and *SEND* it to IG so that they can fix their mistakes?
> 
> Semo

I *would* if I thought that it would do *any* good.  Other, better people
than me have compiled errata lists of the IG products and sent them in. 
Where are they?  They certainly aren't on the website.

Heck, I'll volunteer to *fix* it, update the errata page, and give some of
my precious time to maintaining it.  All I need is two things:

1. Someone at IG to give the word.
2. A place to put it all.

Not that I believe that such an offer would be accepted...

Hmm...  Hey, Marc!  Who's arm do I have to twist to get a job as IG's
part-time webmeister?  I'm cheap :-)

- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:35:39 +1200
From: Brody  Dunn <brody@intersol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

On Sunday, 28 September 1997 00:41, Kenneth Bearden
[SMTP:dreamer@brokersys.com] wrote:
> Quick question:  Will there ever be a design system in which we can
> design 100,000 ton ships, or even 500,000 ton ships?
> 
> Or is FF&S2 the place to do that?
> 
> Kenneth.

FFS2 is not that hard - just time consuming to get it right.

And after all when you are looking at a 100,000 or 500,000TD ship you
really want to get it right.

BCD

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:12:48 -0400
From: "Mike Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

- ----------
> From: CardSharks@aol.com
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
> Date: Sunday, September 28, 1997 12:33 PM
> 
>
> I agree. But somewhere, we have to (or should) specify dimensions for the
> standard hulls. 
> 
> Marc

I also agree that the "standards" need to be published, as well as enough
components to construct and quick and dirty ship. THe problem I was
refering to was related to the current SSDS system. When ever I try and fit
the components into teh hull length give there it doesn't work out, so I've
basically ignored them. FFS2 offers several shapes and size varients that
may rectify this.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:50:15 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: starship design in T4.1

whats up with all the TL15 ships . I thought TL15 was beyond what was
readily available ? I can and will not allow TL15 in my game except as
artifacts and yet I see a proliferation of TL15 ships in other games .
why is this ?

chip

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 04:41:45 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: us today

Moin Allen Shock,

> Since when has ANY news about the gaming industry, Traveller in particular,
> or anything other than "D&D causes suicides" EVER appeared in USA TODAY???

	I remember that the CyC-Project had its major breakthrough about
	2 years ago when the announced, their AI expert system with the
	words :

	- its as stupid as public education
	- it can read and understand US Today Sport pages

	A test conversation with CyC (over telnet) was very impressive,
	even if CyC sometimes look as a mixture between Elisa,Racter
	and an expert system.

	BTW next week Weizenbaum will start teaching in Bremen for half a year.

		"Artificial Intelligences feeds Natural Stupidity"
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:04:05 -0400
From: "Mike Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Agreement!

- ----------
> From: MJ Dougherty <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
> To: traveller-digest@lists.MPGN.COM
> Subject: Agreement!
> Date: Sunday, September 28, 1997 6:37 PM
> 
> 
> Finally - can anyone help me with an old argument: How much energy would be
> required to crack an earth-Type planet in two, assuming Terra-like tectonic
> plates?
> 
> Martin.

"OK, Mikie, mommy's decided the shelter isn't safe enough, I told your
father to used 20 meters of superdence but he wanted to cut costs.... Any
way, we're going to take a nice little trip. Where? Well I think Andomeda 
might be far enough. You haven't heard of a FS office there have you? Good,
now be a good little boy and move your toys to the 'Galactica', it could be
a LONG trip."

This guy REALLY, REALLY scares me! Whups, there's my shuttle. Gotta go.

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 22:54:43 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: TNE Rules and .5d

Kenneth Bearden writes:

>> Now that you've accepted the .5d, I guess I'm the last hold out. ;->  So,
>> how let's  go "whole hog" with those 1d3's!
>
>Geeeez!  What a rep I've developed with the half die.
>
>I can see the half die's uses, especially when I need to roll 1-3!
>
>BUT, I STILL DO NOT ADVOCATE USING HALF DIE IN THE TASK SYSTEM.
>
>It's unelegant.  It's unsightly!  IT'S NOT NEEDED!

   *I* believe you Ken.  I'm only posting this to officially voice my
objection to the use of the phrase "TNE Rules" and ".5d" in the same
subject heading.  I'd rather not have TNE associated with such a thing. 
:-)

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:52:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

In mail you write:

>
> On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  
>> Actually, the yard is the length of a piece of string in the fingers of
>> one outstreched arm stretched to the tip of your nose. Just like a
>> cubit is the distance from your elbow to your fingertips. 
>
> Nope, a yard is the length of the _kings_ outstretched arm,

No. The yard was typically used to measure *cloth*, which you did from
your fingertips to your nose.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:25:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...

In mail you write:

>         Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules
> worth of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of
> liquid hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?

A lot depends on *how* you make it go bang.

But the general "rule of thumb" for fusion is that .1% of the mass is
converted to energy (fission only does .01%). So .1% * .97 tonnes is
..001*970 kg is .97 kg. 

So .97*(3e8)^2 = .97*9e16 

Call it 9e16 joules.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:51:21 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

In mail you write:

> On 09/26/97 at 08:24 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:
>
>>Actually, the yard is the length of a piece of string in the fingers of
>>one outstretched arm stretched to the tip of your nose. Just like a cubit
>>is the distance from your elbow to your fingertips. 
>
> Right, and an inch is the length of the first joint of your thumb, or it's
> width (or in my case the length of the first joint of my index finger..I
> have small hands ;-).  A mile is so many strides (2000, I think).

1 mile = 1000 paces (mille pacem)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:06:09 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: TNE Rules

In mail you write:

>>   My thoughts on PC mortality: I am not running a campaign of "The A-Team
>>RPG".  Use of bullets, in particular getting in the way of them if they
>>are flying at supersonic speeds, increase the odds dramatically that you
>>will have to roll a new character before the next gaming session.  If you
>>do not like this reality, play the engineer who is always getting stuck
>>back on the ship keeping the engine running.
>
> I agree with you.  They are called *deadly* weapons for a good reason and
> if the PC's get in their way too often...you get dead *very* fast. Doesn't
> mean there won't be any combat, just that it better be *important* before
> you pull out the gauss weapons, and you better remember the body armor,
> helmet, and to get behind cover fast.

I remember a couple of players when I first got the CT rules. They
wanted to try out the combat. They picked a *bad* example (pistol vs
submachine gun?) and I even pointed out that at the range they'd
picked, it was medium range for the pistol and short range for the
other weapon. 

They were rather upset when the guy with the pistol wound up messily
dead in the first round. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:29:38 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: TNE Rules

Peter Newman writes: 

Harold Hale wrote

>But people can pull their trigger fingers a lot faster than other people
>can swing swords several feet.  Why should the person with the melee
>weapon get more actions than the person with the gun ?

   My original thinking was that throwing a punch or swinging a sword
takes about a second, yet the TNE combat rules only allow you to strike
once (twice if you have 6+ initative) per 5 second combat turn.

   As I indicated, the rule is still experimental.  There are still a
number of issues to resolve including fighting endurance--you can only
throw so many punches before you punch yourself out, or swing your sword
so many times before your arms become so weary you can't pick up the
sword anymore to swing.  Limits on the number of blows you can strike in
melee would tend to slow people down to save themselves.

>The party I was in learned that if the ref wants your ship screwed your
>ship will get screwed whether there is a guard or not, then you have a
>corpse or a hostage rescue sitation as well.  In addition the session
>will not be very much fun for the player whose charecter is stuck on the
>ship. This is a game and is supposed to be fun. 

   Playing the engineer (usually in my games this is an NPC, so no one
is left bored) can have its moments.  For example (Nick close your eyes
and ignore this post), in my current campaign, the engineer (a PC for a
change) of the starship is so skilled at what he does, he has taught
courses on it at the Terran Republic Naval Engineering School (based in
San Francisco where the Presidio used to be--bonus points for whoever
can tell me who else uses this location).  Anyway, he does the
engineering thing now because he'd rather be on a tramp freighter
running around than retired making money as a consultant.  Sitting on
board ship pulling guard duty one day, he stumbled upon the idea of
transjump drive.  Transjump would theoretically allow you to jump to any
star, anywhere in the Universe (the practical limit being Charted Space)
in one week.  He proceeded to begin disassembling the jump drive and
reassembling it with the proper modification to allow transjump.  Within
the next few gaming sessions, he and the crew will find out if it
actually works. <insert evil laugh here>

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:37:52 -0400
From: hdhale@siscom.net (Harold Hale)
Subject: Re: Rumor or fact??

Semo writes: 

>>My local gamestore owner told me yesterday that GURPS now owns the
>>rights to the Traveller name and IG will no longer be involved in
>>producing game material once their current contract ends. Marc Miller,
>>he said would only be involved peripherally in game product design,
>>and the "alternate history" GURPS was starting would become the
>>"official" one.
>
>Sounds to me like he's just terribly confused.  

   Ditto.  While there may be some hedging of bets going on, I don't
believe that IG's license even has an ending date, let alone that it
would expire any time soon.

>My understanding is that GURPS Traveller is going to be, like most of the GURPS books, a one shot.

   No, Loren's post indicated sourcebook*s*, has in more than one.  How
many more than one isn't clear.

> The alternate history (and I believe, although I may be incorrect, that both
>Marc Miller and Loren Wiseman both said this.  At any rate, I'm pretty sure
>that Loren did.) will be just that, and alternate history.

   There have indeed been assurances from Loren that his project will be
an alternative timeline, not a replacement for the original canon.

   However, and this has been pointed out by more than one thinking
person around here, *should* IG fail and no one pick up Traveller as a
independent game system, the SJG material would become canon by default.

   IMHO, I don't think there is anything to worry about yet.  Revisit
this rumor in six months and see if it has any more validity.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1892
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 29 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1893



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

TNE Fixes & Very (LONG) Sharp Knives
Re: Intercepted Spofulam Internal Memo IY 014-016
Rumor Quashing
Shaped Charges
Sustained Laser Fire
Re: M0 and FS
Piracy in the Imperium, or, Argh, matey!
Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun and profit
Ship Conversion
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Psionic Knights
Re: Jump projectors
Re: Rumor Quashing
re: advert
More FS internal memos
Re: Kill ff&s2
Re: Active/Passive Debate
Re: IG, Quality and the future (very long)
Re:  starship design in T4.1
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Architect System)
Mass Drivers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:39:13 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: TNE Fixes & Very (LONG) Sharp Knives

Few days behind in mail here....

> One of the more popular is to use d10 for damage dice instead of d6.
> Many people complain that combat isn't lethal enough, with d10 it is
> fairly deadly.  Also make sure to use the quick kill rule.  (If NPCs
> take more damage to the head or chest than their con from one hit, they
> are dead, PCs take double damage instead.  Personally I make it double
> damage for everyone)  


I prefer to halve PC hit capacity and double NPC hit capacity, so they're
fairly well matched. The quick kill rule works just fine and is definitely
a requirement for realistic play. 



And now...

***************
* A Question! *
***************

TNE Related of course, but all suggestions are welcome:

	I'm working on some rules for constructing extra-sharp edges for
knives/swords etc... because I figured by the year 5000+ mankind must have
developed some pretty sneaky techniques for improving melee weapon
penetration. I'm not actually going to have monomolecular weapons, but
something pretty close to it.

What I have so far:

		Melee weapons have a listed damage such as '1d6+STR' and
lose 2 damage 'points' (not dice) for each level of armour on the target.
So to get a better penetration, you'd either a) make weapons that only
lose 1 point or less per level of armour or b) increase the overall damage
of the weapon so it cuts in deeper.
		I'm going to opt for the extra damage, to avoid changing
any combat rules or the physics of traveller :) So my rough table for
sharpness progressions goes like this:


			Xtra Sharp Edge Weaponry ...or X-SHED Weapons :)

			TL	Damage Mod	Cost Mod
			x	x1.5		x a
			x+n	x2.0		x b
			x+2n	x2.5		x c
			x+3n	x3.0		x d
			
			and so on....

			Where x is a tech level, n is the tech progression
			rate and a,b,c,d... are the cost multipliers for the corresponding level.

My questions are:

		1) What kinds of things could we do to make things
		   sharper (eg diamond tips and so on...)
		2) At what tech level should this option appear and how
		   fast should it develop?
		3) How much is this going to bump up the price of the
		   weapon (obviously based on area being sharpened)?
		4) Is there some way that these weapons could be dulled
		   and sharpened through some sort of artificial
		   manipulation at higher tech levels to avoid some nasty
		   cuts?
			

David Moodie
_______________________________________________________
THE MANY FACES OF WASHU/NENE ROMANOVA GALLERIES       
http://www.st.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dmoodie/index.html  
- -------------------------------------------------------
Worshipper of Washu, Nene & Traveller : TNE ^-^ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 21:23:28 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Intercepted Spofulam Internal Memo IY 014-016

>From:   Niipita Indifar Spofulam, Head, Starship weapons division
>To:     Hengabar Spofulam
>Re:     Project: Concealable Light Low-Lethality Thud Gun
>Date:   002-016
>
>******************************************************************
>
>Dear Uncle Hengie:
>
>        I'm sorry to report that initial feasibility studies demonstrate
>that Cousin Shidaar's concept for a ship-based anti-Deep Meson Site mass
>driver is somewhat flawed.
>
[snip horrific results of drug abuse and inbreeding]
>
>        Your affectionate niece,
>
>        Niipie.
>

Like I said before, I <HEART> Hengabar.

But who's this Niipita?  Is she single?

Ahem.

With due permission and citation, may I rip off little Shidaar's concept
and bestow it upon the Sayat?  They have a peculiar hatred of cometary
bodies, you see.  Apparently they've had problems with Things living on
them.  "Contact: Sayat" articles are basically ready for press at this
time, FWIW.

Kenji Schwarz
kenji@accessone.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:06:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: Rumor Quashing

Subject: Re: Rumor or fact??

>>My local gamestore owner told me yesterday that GURPS now owns the
>>rights to the Traveller name and IG will no longer be involved in
>>producing game material once their current contract ends. Marc Miller,
>>he said would only be involved peripherally in game product design,
>>and the "alternate history" GURPS was starting would become the
>>"official" one.
>
>Sounds to me like he's just terribly confused.  My understanding is that
>GURPS Traveller is going to be, like most of the GURPS books, a one shot.
> The alternate history (and I believe, although I may be incorrect, that
both
>Marc Miller and Loren Wiseman both said this.  At any rate, I'm pretty sure
>that Loren did.) will be just that, and alternate history.

Semo has pretty much quashed the "SJG Owns Traveller Now" rumor being spread
by this game shop chappie, but added a speculation of his own that there will
be only one product.

From the SJG Press Release Dated September 4, 1997

"Long-time Traveller editor and writer Loren Wiseman will serve as
Line Editor for the GURPS Traveller series of books and will write the
first release." Emphasis mine.

Please take careful note of the phrases "Line Editor" and "series of books"

I leave the task of drawing conclusions from this short quote as an
intellectual exercise

: )

Loren Wiseman
    GDW Emeritus

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:17:26 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Shaped Charges

> It can't be *that* bad.  In one of Steve Higginbotham's
> PBEM campaigns I presented him a detailed plan for a
> space-marines assault on one of the other Islands powers'
> asteroid habitats, including the ram-blast-and-board landing
> ships with the 10-displacement-ton shaped charges built into
> the bow for forcible entry.  This sort of brings the same idea
> to mind, albeit on a bigger scale.
                                         
Anyone know of anything more destructive than plastic-explosive that could
be packed into a dice-sized conical explosive charge?
 
(If anyone's wondering why, I'm trying to design the Hardsuits from
Bubblegum Crisis :) I'd rate them at about TL-17 technology according to
what I can patch together using FF&S).


David Moodie
_______________________________________________________
THE MANY FACES OF WASHU/NENE ROMANOVA GALLERIES       
http://www.st.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dmoodie/index.html  
- -------------------------------------------------------
Worshipper of Washu, Nene & Traveller : TNE ^-^ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:24:17 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Sustained Laser Fire

Another Itty-bitty question:

Ok, in FF&S it says Direct Electrical Input lasers have a homopolar
generator strapped to them to provide power (in other words a battery).
What would be the damage effects of strapping a power plant to the laser
(most likely fusion) and firing a continuous beam? Obviously there'd be
some cooling problems, but my best guess is eventually the laser would
penetrate most armour and cause nasty amounts of damage in a short space
of time...


David Moodie
_______________________________________________________
THE MANY FACES OF WASHU/NENE ROMANOVA GALLERIES       
http://www.st.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dmoodie/index.html  
- -------------------------------------------------------
Worshipper of Washu, Nene & Traveller : TNE ^-^ 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:50:03 -0500
From: ghost029@juno.com
Subject: Re: M0 and FS

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:32:27 -0700 (MST) Bruce Johnson
<johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> writes:
>On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>
>> Marc Said:
>> 
>> >Sure. Why not post them here on the list?
>> 
>> Huh? Do you mean all of us who have M0 and FS should make ourselves 
>known?
>

I already bought the M0 campaign, M0 and FS, but would like the sheets
for actual use, so

ME TOO, ME TOO

Thomas Harkless
ex MM1/SS
searching for Bradish and Harkless

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:54:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Piracy in the Imperium, or, Argh, matey!

>With a total population of 540 billion people (36*1.5 billion).

>At Cr500 per person in naval taxes you get a naval budget of 270,000,000
MCr.
>Let's err on the side of caution and cut that by a third = 180,000,000 MCr.
>Such a budget represents a fleet costing 1,800,000,000 MCr. 1/1000th of that
>is 1,800,000 MCr. 200 T patrol cruisers are used for piracy suppression, so
>presumably they are a match for the average pirate; you can get about 7000
>patrol cruisers for 1,800,000 MCr. But let's say the Navy thinks patrol
>ships are sissy and opts for 1200 T Kinunir Class ships instead. You can
>get about 1,800 Kinunirs for 1,800,000 MCr. (All figures are CT).

Some minor problems with your math.

1.5 billion * 36 = 54 billion people, not 540 billion as you state.

Now, based on that we have:

Cr500 (which I think is too high to begin with) for a naval tax (this is over
1/10th of the average persons budget according to the Traveller Book [CT]) x
54 billion = 2.7 trillion.

1/1000th of 2.7 trillion is 27 billion.

Now we have 27 billion credits per 36 worlds, that's enough for 122 patrol
cruisers, or 27 Kinunirs, or 93 close escorts per year.  Now, this is not
including maintenance costs on these craft (including serious repairs, after
all they will be *fighting pirates*), salaries per craft (all CT figures), or
salaries for ship's troops (wouldn't it be embarassing for a Kinunir to be
boarded and taken over by a small team of pirates?), or salaries for
coordinating and command peoples, or costs for life support (hefty using our
CT model here), costs for sensor stations, etc. etc.  All these things add up
in a big way.  Then of course you have to pay the families of those who are
killed in combat.

And, how about the lawsuits when an anti-piracy craft fires upon the wrong
ship and kills little Billy Jenkins, the cabin boy.

Important question:  Is the cost of fighting off Vargr Corsairs in places
like the Corridor sector subsumed in this 1/1000th of the naval budget?  If
so, I'm sure more ships and lives get lost out there, and hence more ships
must be moved to these locations.

All this stuff adds up after awhile.  Of course, as I said, I think your
Cr500 per person figure is awfully high.  Traveller rules say the average
person has to spend Cr400 a month for food and lodging.  Cr500 is a little
over 10%.  And that's just for the Imperial Navy!!!  How about the Scout
service (tons of ships, facilities, and the X-Boats)??  The Imperial
bureaucracy?  Etc. etc.

>System defense budgets for your average population 7 world is 70% of 
>7,500 MCr, which gives such a world a system defense force equivalent to
>roughly 50 Kinunirs (or 200 patrol ships). I think the average pop 7
>world can take care of itself, but let's again err on the side of caution
>and only postulate that the six worlds of population 8, 9, and 10 can
>deal with pirates on their own. That leaves 30 out of the 36 worlds to
>spread those 1,800 Kinunirs around on, or 60 apiece _on the average_.
>And that's without counting the 200 Kinunirs (or the equivalent) that
>the 4 pop 7 worlds can have on their own and the 25 that the 5 pop 6
>worlds can have.

Where are you digging up these figures here?  I'm a little confused.  Around
Cr105 per person for system defense (I divided your figure by 50,000,000, the
midrange for a pop 7 world).  

Okay, I'll bite.  Now, you have salaries, life support, maintenance (again,
they're fighting pirates so this'll be higher than usual), coordinating and
command peoples, sensors, sensors, and more sensors.  Plus, they'll probably
have to try and stop smugglers as well.  They have to pay for all of these
"hidden" spaceports where the SDBs refuel...  Now, 5,250 MCr can buy you _5_
Kinunir Class ships or _24_ Patrol Cruisers, not 50 or 200+ respectively.
Since they are also charged with local defense, they have to have SDBs too,
they can buy _21_ of them.  This goes down by a factor of 10 each time you go
down a population level.  A pop 6 world can buy .5 kinunir class ships, or
2.4 patrol cruisers, or 2 SDBs, a pop 5 world can buy .05 kinunir class
ships, .24 patrol cruisers, or 2 SDBs.  A pop 4 world could pay for the
_maintenance_ of 5 Kinunirs, 24 patrol cruisers, or 20 SDBs.  A pop 3 world
couldn't even maintain a single Kinunir each year!

Now, here's the bombshell:  The average world size is, according to the dice
throws, 5.  Hardly the unstoppable juggernaut you claim.

All in all, I think your taxes are way too high (the average person's cost of
living is Cr400 a month, for naval forces [imperial and system-wide] alone
1.5 months goes out the door).  That is to say 12.5 percent of someone's
total cost of living goes to taxes that build and maintain space/starcraft
etc.  That's probably about 1/3 of the total taxes an individual pays.  And
that's assuming the average cost of living is truly the average cost of
living.  After all, there are alot more poor people on this planet than
middle class or rich people.

I dunno, your numbers are way too high.  When I get the time, I'll puzzle it
out further.  For now I am unconvinced by your numbers, especially since you
seem to be off on your own math...

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun and profit

> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:37:12 +0100
> From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
>
> Finally - can anyone help me with an old argument: How much energy would be
> required to crack an earth-Type planet in two, assuming Terra-like tectonic
> plates?

*sigh* First Roderick, now you.  What's with this list, anyway?  I picture
us all standing at the window of a liner in orbit around, say, Regina...a
pleasant, lovely, earth-like world...as our guide describes in reverent
tones all that goes to make such a world: the planetessimals merging
around a young T-Tauri star; the complex exchanges of mass, energy, and
angular momentum; the differentiation of core from mantle; the slow
cooling and solifification of the crust; the long, patient march of life
from unicellular algae to complex, unique, irreplaceable forms, modifying
the atmosphere, leaving its unmistakeable stamp even on the
lithosphere...and then our guide pauses for questions.

Roderick:  Umm, what would it take to blast entirely through the crust?
           Roughly, I mean.

Martin:    Or how 'bout to split it into two chunks?!

Roderick:  Yeah, or a bazillion chunks!

Martin:    Woo hoo!  Or glowing vapor receding at .5 c!

It's an odd thing when the much-touted Sense of Wonder relies so heavily
on Blowing Things Up Real Good. :)

Now, to business:  "Cracking an earth-like planet in two" is a bit
ambiguous.  If you mean literally splitting it into two pieces not
gravitationally bound to one another, then plate tectonics don't matter at
*all*...they only effect the crust, which contains so little of the
planet's mass that it can be entirely neglected.

The easiest way to model what you're looking for is to figure out what it
would take to accelerate the entire mass of the Earth to its own escape
velocity (cf. Greg Bear's _The Forge of God_, which I *highly* recommend
on this topic, and as a generally Good Read -- though he also messes with
tectonics, which I consider a scientific flaw tossed in because it's so
damn cool). 

So, earth's escape velocity is about 1e4 m/s, and its mass is roughly 6e24
kg.  So, getting the whole planet up to its own escape velocity would take

  KE = 1/2 MV^2 = 0.5 * 6e24 kg * 1e8 m2/s2
                = 3e32 J

....or three hundred trillion trillion megajoules (American trillions,
10e12). 

Anything less than that, and even if you succeed in splitting it into
chunks, most of the pieces will just fall together into one (jumbled up,
*thoroughly* trashed) planet again, like Uranus' moon Miranda did after it
got walloped not-quite-hard-enough. 

Hope this helps...and *don't* try this at home! :)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@lcinenet.net
 --*--    6Home Page: http://www.cinenet.^"net/users/7cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:00:16 -0500
From: Alex Rebsch <grazzit@flash.net>
Subject: Ship Conversion

I've asked this before but didn't get any response, so I'll ask again. Are
there any rules for starship conversion from MT to T4 and or TNE to T4? The
only rules I've been able to locate are for converting High Guard into T4. Also
are the ships in Fighting Ships in the same format as High Guard?


Also what about Vehicle conversions? I have some TNE vehicles that it would be
nice to have in T4 format. 


Thanks for any help available.


P.S. check out my home page. http://www.flash.net/~grazzit/traveller.html




Alex Rebsch

<underline><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>grazzit@flash.net

Alex.Rebsch@wang.com</color></underline>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:44:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:51:21 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> 
> 1 mile = 1000 paces (mille pacem)

Is a 'pace' defined as two steps, as in successive plantings of (say) the
right foot?  Otherwise this implies a stride length of more than 5 feet... 

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:01:49 -0500
From: Alex Rebsch <grazzit@flash.net>
Subject: Psionic Knights

I have seen several references to this product but have never heard of it or
seen it. Does anybody have any information about it, who makes it, is it still
available, whats it about? 


thanks




Alex Rebsch

<underline><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>grazzit@flash.net

Alex.Rebsch@wang.com</color></underline>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 23:46:44 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Jump projectors

The ability to jump out of battle has been, IMO, a minor problem.
In Traveller history you see that when fleets meet, they generally
fight a decisive battle and that catching a smaller force buy
suprise usually leads to a victory.  But if isn't that hard for
to be able to go into a battle with the ability to jump away
(at least a fair portion of the time) and jump disrupters are
generally only available on larger ships.  However, we don't see
smaller forces being that much harder to ambush.  For that reason,
I assume that energy releases disrupt the ability to jump in
the area, so that to jump away, you need to be able to disengage
from battle.

____________________________
Summers@Alum.MIT.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:30:32 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Rumor Quashing

At 01:06 AM 29/09/97 -0400, you wrote:

>I leave the task of drawing conclusions from this short quote as an
>intellectual exercise
>
>: )

Loren, intellectual exercise (IE) is not one of the many acronyms used on
the TML, so I guess you can't really expect it to be applied :)

Harry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:07:36 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: advert

>The Traveller Bibliography, 108pp, A5, full colour cover
>        (Timothy Collinson will berate me if I don't shout loudly
>         about the fact that this bibliography covers every true
>         Traveller product from the first black books to FF&S2,
>         giving details of authors, size, contents, etc. etc.
>         - invaluable to any collector) :-)

And I should think so too!
Nigh on twenty years of loving the game.
18 months of sweating over the writing.
Several solid days of proofreading.
It's a labour/labor of love.

tc
"Scary, sending one's 'child' out into the world."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:52:51
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: More FS internal memos

Dear Hengie,

I'm sorry to hear about the empiebeh gun (even the name is sooo cutsie)
not being ready in time ...

I've got a teensy weeeensy minor problem. I seem to have got myself
involved in a duel, and having had oooooh six too many strawberry
daquaries I declared the challenge to be one using a man-powered particle
acclerator - I mean, fission is icky and you just *cant* put a fusion
plus powerplant in a nice loincloth.

So Hengie dear, could you do the preliminary work for me on how many
manly manly men I would need to power a 25 megawatt spaceship-mounted
particle accelerator, and the air scrubbing system and so on  so the
manly manly men dont go that naaaaasty blue colour from anoxia. I mean,
anoxia *is* fun, but only with the proper preperation and aftercare ... 

Yours with kisses,

Davar

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 04:57:23 EDT
From: lugh1@juno.com
Subject: Re: Kill ff&s2

>Kenji Houston writes: 
>
>Time to admit Traveller 4 has been a flop!.

Never T4 is my favorite set yet , and I have been playing since 83 . what
would make you say such a hurtful thing about T4 anyways ?

> Most game stores won't  carry it.

Coliseum of Comics in florida always has a good selection [ it could be
better ] and no I do not work there , I am just a regular who buys
traveller books .

> IMO Traveller should never have gone gear head. Traveller 1 gave 
>the referee and players the basics. The referee had the flexibility to 
>run the campaign. And players weren't bogged down by complicated rules.

IMHO .. you use what you like ignore the rest , I and my group enjoy
gearheading new craft and vehicles for our games if you don't then skip
that part .


chip

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:07:55 +0100
From: "Nick Munn" <N.S.Munn@sheffield.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Active/Passive Debate

bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh):

> Overall I'm fairly proud of the sensor rules... I think they're worth 
> taking a look at.

I'd second that -- they're a piece of work and no mistake.  They were 
sooo good I took the time to put them in a Word 6.0 document, if 
anyone wants pretty-looking tables.  It's a *nearly* accurate 
conversion...

Word document available on request,

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:24:07 +0800
From: Michael Bailey <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: IG, Quality and the future (very long)

Well thought out post Andrew.  While I'll be the first to admit that T4 has
had more than a few problems, it makes for a much needed counterweight to
the constant (and starting to get annoying) negativism I've been reading
over the past few weeks.

Thanks 

Michael Bailey
mickb@opera.iinet.net.au
				
pillock-at-large and proud supporter of the Chelsea FC and Fremantle AFL
Clubs!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:34:58 +0800
From: Michael Bailey <mickb@opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re:  starship design in T4.1

>whats up with all the TL15 ships . I thought TL15 was beyond what was
>readily available ? I can and will not allow TL15 in my game except as
>artifacts and yet I see a proliferation of TL15 ships in other games .
>why is this ?

In a Millieu:0 campaign, you're (IMHO) doing the right thing.  However, for
those of us running/cooking up T4 campaigns in 1100, The New Era, or
whatever, it becomes important to have access to TL 15 material.

Slainte

Michael Bailey
mickb@opera.iinet.net.au
				
pillock-at-large and proud supporter of the Chelsea FC and Fremantle AFL
Clubs!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:53:26 +0100
From: "Nick Munn" <N.S.Munn@sheffield.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Architect System)

> In a message dated 97-09-26 07:50:12 EDT, you write:
> 
> << I did notice that the proportions he gave for the wedge hull were 1:1 
>  height:width, whereas the FF&S2 one is 1:2.4:3.5 height:width:length...>>
> 
> Is there some requirement that all hulls of a form must be in specific
> dimension ratios?

Sort of.

FF&S2 has surface area multipliers and height:width:length 
proportions for all of its hull types.  Some (like box 
configurations) have several sets of proportions.  Others don't, and 
this includes wedges.

That's not to say that one couldn't create different hull shapes and 
proportions -- I have -- but you do then have to work out the 
modifiers for surface area, height, length and width compared to a 
sphere of the same volume.  Area and length are important parameters 
in FF&S design.

There's also the touchy issue of people saying "TNAS doesn't match 
FF&S2 *or* SSDS *or* QSDS, this is unbearable, no consistency between 
products, IG sucks, roll on GURPS Traveller..." (etcetera, ad tediam),
of which I am heartily sick.  Who needs this kind of hassle?

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:16:08 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Mass Drivers

Quick Question - anyone remember seeing anything in 'canon' material about
mass-driver armed ships?
One of our players insists he's seen a reference, but can't remember where.

Now, with a mass driver weapon, perhaps it might be possible to project a
series of Discarding Sabot armour-piercing-type projectiles (rather small -
say a few dozen kgs) at your deep site meson gun. Arriving in a fast burst
(compensated for planetary movement), these superdense penetrators would
crack the surface rock, set up seismic shocks etc. It should be possible to
'drill' through to the deep site by repeated impacts (in fact the
superheating effect of the impacts should vaporise some of the rock and
soil, thus allowing deeper penetration by the next projectile.) It should
thus be feasable to drill out the deep site with relatively little
cratering and thus damage to local real estate values - from outside Meson
range, too, so long as the targeting computer can correct for drift.
Accurate shooting from several AU is theoretically possible, although
targets in the Andromeda galaxy remain, for now, beyond accurate range.
 


(a 100kg projectile moving at, say 100,000 metres per second, carries 50 X
100000 X 100000 = 5 e 11 joules. Enough to knock down 13,888,888,889
standing people according to theoretical extrapolation of research. Field
test results on effect what this energy would have on a planet are not yet
available.) 


However, there is a second application, of interest to industry. A mining
ship fitted with such a weapon should theoretically be able to target plate
boundaries, drill them open, then apply heavier projectiles (heavier not
for greater energy - velocity is the king of energy - but for energy
transfer, ie an effect similar to a dumdum rather than an armour piercing
round.) These heavier projectiles, applied with precise timing, should
cause the plates to move, allowing a final projectile (massive) to be
applied to the core of the world. The 'splash effect', should crack or
break the planet into conveniently-mined asteroids, and give access to the
vast mass of  iron, radioactives and such currently untappable within the
inconveniently large planetary masses found in local space. Any asteroids
of diameter too large for mining can be moved to collision orbits for size
reduction, or cut with the above superdense 'drilling' projectiles.

Patent on both systems is pending. Infringement may result in field testing.
Martin, on behalf of the Munchkin Design Bureau

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1893
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 29 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1894



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Jump Supressor
Re: Agreement!
Agreement!
Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...
Re: Sustained Laser Fire
Sales of T4 at Euro GEN CON
Re: Piracy in the Imperium
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: The Piracy Thread
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 00:52:20 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump Supressor

In mail you write:

> Wouldn't a tractor beam work as a jump suppressor? I mean, after all, you
> are applying a gravity field to a target ship.

It's not the gravity field that causes the trouble. If it was, the jump
limits would work differently. It's gotta be the *rate of change* of
the gravity field (ie tidal forces).

So a tractor won't work, because it's a *uniform* field.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 01:07:57 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Agreement!

In mail you write:

> Finally - can anyone help me with an old argument: How much energy would be
> required to crack an earth-Type planet in two, assuming Terra-like tectonic
> plates?

The trouble is getting it to *stay* cracked. Everything deeper than a
few miles is *fluid*.

Somebody on rec.arts.sf.science figured how much energy it'd take to
break the Earth in two, and give the two pieces escape velocity
relative to each other (so they'd stay "cracked").

I can't find the figures for that one (try Dejanews), but to
*completely* disrupt the planet (ie give every atom escape velocity)
takes about a week's output from the sun.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:05:04 -0500
From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Agreement!

MJ Dougherty wrote:

[snip]
>
>Finally - can anyone help me with an old argument: How much energy would be
>required to crack an earth-Type planet in two, assuming Terra-like tectonic
>plates?
>
>Martin.


	Hm.  Don't know.  Don't use T4 damage and armour value numbers; I
don'tthink they scale up properly.  However, here's the info, lifted from
the sci.space. FAQ, that I used to get the cratering numbers on that
anti-deep-meson site thingie that I posted last night.  Leonard Erickson
very kindly sent it to me.

	Boy was I ever disappointed by the yield; only 4.3 megatons.

	As far as completely trashing planets goes, Greg Bear's Anvil of
Stars had a cute idea; while hordes of self-replicating nanobots are busy
deep in the oceans building large fusion devices along the rift valleys
between tectonic plates (and we're talking _large_ here; the oxygen left
over from cracking the hydrogen out of the water caused noticeable
increases in oxygen levels worldwide), you drop a lump of neutronium into
the planet on one side, and a lump of _anti_-neutronium in the other.  They
sink through the planet towards the center of gravity, being far, far
denser and more massive than the intervening rock, and when they meet at
the core, they go boom.  You then trigger the nukes along the tectonic
plates to split them open, and you get lovely things like continental
plates flipping about like pancakes (well, not quite, but in the novel this
process definetely did Earth in).

>
>    COMPUTING CRATER DIAMETERS FROM EARTH-IMPACTING ASTEROIDS
>
>    Astrogeologist Gene Shoemaker proposes the following formula, based on
>    studies of cratering caused by nuclear tests. Units are MKS unless
>    otherwise noted; impact energy is sometimes expressed in nuclear bomb
>    terms (kilotons TNT equivalent) due to the origin of the model.
>
>    D = Sg Sp Kn W^(1/3.4)
>	Crater diameter, meters. On Earth, if D > 3 km, the crater is
>	assumed to collapse by a factor of 1.3 due to gravity.
>
>    Sg = (ge/gt)^(1/6)
>	Gravity correction factor cited for craters on the Moon. May hold
>	true for other bodies. ge = 9.8 m/s^2 is Earth gravity, gt is
>	gravity of the target body.
>
>    Sp = (pa/pt)^(1/3.4)
>	Density correction factor for target material relative to the Jangle
>	U nuclear crater site. pa = 1.8e3 kg/m^3 (1.8 gm/cm^3) for alluvium,
>	pt = density at the impact site. For reference, average rock on the
>	continental shields has a density of 2.6e3 kg/m^3 (2.6 gm/cm^3).
>
>    Kn = 74 m / (kiloton TNT equivalent)^(1/3.4)
>	Empirically determined scaling factor from bomb yield to crater
>	diameter at Jangle U.
>
>    W = Ke / (4.185e12 joules/KT)
>	Kinetic energy of asteroid, kilotons TNT equivalent.
>
>    Ke = 1/2 m v^2
>	Kinetic energy of asteroid, joules.
>
>    v = impact velocity of asteroid, m/s.
>	2e4 m/s (20 km/s) is common for an asteroid in an Earth-crossing
>	orbit.
>
>    m = 4/3 pi r^3 rho
>	Mass of asteroid, kg.
>
>    r = radius of asteroid, m
>
>    rho = density of asteroid, kg/m^3
>	3.3e3 kg/m^3 (3 gm/cm^3) is reasonable for a common S-type asteroid.
>
>    For an example, let's work the body which created the 1.1 km diameter
>    Barringer Meteor Crater in Arizona (in reality the model was run
>    backwards from the known crater size to estimate the meteor size, but
>    this is just to show how the math works):
>
>	r = 40 m	    Meteor radius
>	rho = 7.8e3 kg/m^3  Density of nickel-iron meteor
>	v = 2e4 m/s	    Impact velocity characteristic of asteroids
>				in Earth-crossing orbits
>	pt = 2.3e3 kg/m^3   Density of Arizona at impact site
>
>	Sg = 1		    No correction for impact on Earth
>	Sp = (1.8/2.3)^(1/3.4) = .93
>	m = 4/3 pi 40^3 7.8e3 = 2.61e8 kg
>	Ke = 1/2 * 2.61e8 kg * (2e4 m/s)^2
>	   = 5.22e16 joules
>	W = 5.22e16 / 4.185e12 = 12,470 KT
>	D = 1 * .93 * 74 * 12470^(1/3.4) = 1100 meters
>
>    More generally, one can use (after Gehrels, 1985):
>
>    Asteroid	    Number of Impact probability  Impact energy as multiple
>    diameter (km)   Objects    (impacts/year)	    of Hiroshima bomb
>    -------------   --------- ------------------  -------------------------
>     10			10	 10e-8		    1e9 (1 billion)
>      1		       1e3	 10e-6		    1e6 (1 million)
>      0.1	       1e5	 10e-4		    1e3 (1 thousand)
>
>    The Hiroshima explosion is assumed to be 13 kilotons.
>
>    Finally, a back of the envelope rule is that an object moving at a speed
>    of 3 km/s has kinetic energy equal to the explosive energy of an equal
>    mass of TNT; thus a 10 ton asteroid moving at 30 km/sec would have an
>    impact energy of (10 ton) (30 km/sec / 3 km/sec)^2 = 1 KT.
>


Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:16:39 +0100
From: "Nick Munn" <N.S.Munn@sheffield.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: By the pricking of my thumbs...

"Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com> writes:

> Send me the stats on the chew toys..:)

Vargr Chew Toys (Cr 2, 0.06 kg):

CT: "Oooh, about twice the size of a dog chew.  A *big* dog chew."

MT: 0.015 m long (corrected to 0.15 m in errata).

TNE: Replaced by SynthiBone(TM) which doesn't last as long; hordes of 
Vargr-players react angrily to claim that chew toys "never existed".

T4: (CSC) 15cm long, description as per MT.
    (AA)  "Sorry, no Vargr in Milieu 0."
    (FF&S) 0.15 m long, 0.02 m diameter, surface area 0.01 m^2
    (Aliens) Rumours that Varge [sic] have chew toys.

Nick
Dr. Nick Munn, Dept. of Information Studies, University of Sheffield
Tel. (0)114 222 2673, email n.s.munn@sheffield.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 05:07:22 -0700
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sustained Laser Fire

> Date:          Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:24:17 +1000 (EST)
> From:          "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
>
> Ok, in FF&S it says Direct Electrical Input lasers have a homopolar
> generator strapped to them to provide power (in other words a battery).
> What would be the damage effects of strapping a power plant to the laser
> (most likely fusion) and firing a continuous beam? Obviously there'd be
> some cooling problems, but my best guess is eventually the laser would
> penetrate most armour and cause nasty amounts of damage in a short space
> of time...


One way to handle it is to consider the weapon to have a high ROF.  
If the normal laser pulse is 0.01 seconds long, you have 100 'pulses' 
per second, and a ROF of 500 (5x100).  The penetration will only 
increase if the target obliges by standing still long enough.

A couple of problems, however.  In order to get that high a ROF, the 
focal array has to be beefed up substantially (an FA multiplier of 
2000).  Also, your 0.01 MJ laser (typical for a laser pistol) now 
requires a 1 MW power input.

Nitpick: the homopolar generator is not a battery (in the sense of
long-term power storage) - it's acting as a capacitor since the
battery does not have the power output needed to power the laser pulse
directly.


- --
Edward Swatschek  *  edjs@bitslayer.net
                     edjs@mindlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:37:07 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Sales of T4 at Euro GEN CON

Various people have been commenting on T4 sales at their LFGS. I can't
comment too generally for the UK, but I know of a number of UK shops (many
of whom I talked to at EGC, and who are now supplying BITS products as well)
who seemed to think that T4 sales were reasonable, certainly for the better
products.

Our own experience was that by teaming up with our local shop (Karl & Keith
of Marquee Models who have shops in both Harlow and Hertford) we were able
to sell quite a bit of T4 stuff at Euro GEN CON (through the BITS stand and
the Marquee Models stall), much of it to new people as well as current T4
players.

Jon of Maidstone Games was kind enough to spend several days of the
convention helping us at our stand simply because we'd made the effort to
help run demos when he opened his shop earlier this year. He's trying to be
known as a Traveller 'specialist', stocking everything from the T4 range
down to our lowly BITS Scout badges and 101 books.

So, in summary, there's still life in the old dog/horse/cat yet, certainly
in this area of the world! :-)

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:02:00 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Piracy in the Imperium

SemoFetus@aol.com writes:
>>With a total population of 540 billion people (36*1.5 billion).
> 
>>At Cr500 per person in naval taxes you get a naval budget of 270,000,000
>MCr.
>
> Some minor problems with your math.
> 
> 1.5 billion * 36 = 54 billion people, not 540 billion as you state.

Ouch! You are quite right, and I bow my head in shame. I should have caught 
that one. I did doublecheck my figures, but... :-(

>Cr500 (which I think is too high to begin with) for a naval tax (this is over
>1/10th of the average persons budget according to the Traveller Book [CT]) x
>54 billion = 2.7 trillion.

54,000,000,000*500 = 27,000,000,000,000. You've made the same mistake I did,
only you made it the other way. Let's split the difference: 27 trillion.
However, since the credits of low and medium tech worlds are worth less
I would like to play it safe and go for 2/3rds of this figure, or 18 trillion.
 
The Cr500/person is straight out of _Trillion Credit Squadron_. It is also
equal to 5% of the average person's yearly income. (This figure, Cr10,000
per person on the average was something I calculated based on the monthly
expenses quoted in CT; with the publication of _Pocket Empires_ it also
became canon (Yay! ;-))
 
> Now we have 27 billion credits per 36 worlds, 

180 billion.

>that's enough for 122 patrol cruisers, or 27 Kinunirs, or 93 close escorts 
>per year.  

The Imperium dosen't throw away their ships each year and buy a new set, you
know. According to _Trillion Credit Squadron_ a fleet is equivalent to 10
times it's yearly budget. Maintenance of a ship costs 10% of its initial
purchase price annually.

>Now, this is not including maintenance costs on these craft (including 
>serious repairs, after all they will be *fighting pirates*), Salaries per 
>craft (all CT figures), or salaries for ship's troops (wouldn't it be 
embarassing for a Kinunir to be boarded and taken over by a small team of 
>pirates?), or salaries for coordinating and command peoples, or costs for 
>life support (hefty using our CT model here), costs for sensor stations, 
>etc. etc.  All these things add up in a big way. Then of course you have 
>to pay the families of those who are killed in combat.

The 10% includes _everything_ except repairs and replacenment of combat
losses. It includes all personnel costs, from recruitment posters to
pensions, all logistics support, all routine maintenance and replacement
of non-combat losses (Ie. retirement of worn-out ships). This isn't just
an opinion, it's a rule! ;-).

>And, how about the lawsuits when an anti-piracy craft fires upon the wrong
>ship and kills little Billy Jenkins, the cabin boy.

Since piracy is so impossible as it is, the number of times a patrol ship
would actually get in a fight is excessively low, and the chance that they
will fire on a friendly ship is negligible.
 
>Important question:  Is the cost of fighting off Vargr Corsairs in places
>like the Corridor sector subsumed in this 1/1000th of the naval budget?  If
>so, I'm sure more ships and lives get lost out there, and hence more ships
>must be moved to these locations.

It's true that the Corridor Fleet has more than it's share of the Naval
Budget, but by the same token the subsectors deep inside Imperial territory
will have correspondingly less. The remaining 999/1000th will be quite able
to handle anything the Vargr corsairs can throw at them. Though now that
you have pointed out my factor 10 mistake I may have to back down and ask
for a second 1/1000th of the budget. Or not; I haven't gone over the new
figures.
 
>Of course, as I said, I think your Cr500 per person figure is awfully high. 
>Traveller rules say the average person has to spend Cr400 a month for food 
>and lodging.  Cr500 is a little over 10%.  

I don't know about you, but I use more money than just for my food and rent.
So I would add 50% to that figure for other expenses. That's Cr600 per month
or Cr7,200 per year. Then I assume that people pay 25% in taxes on the
average (Note: According to _Pocket Empires_ this is on the low end of the
scale for taxes). That gives an average income of Cr9,600 which I rounded
up to Cr10,000. @5% taxes gives you Cr2500 per person of which 20% goes to
defense. Now, that isn't so unreasonable, is it?

>And that's just for the Imperial Navy!!!  How about the Scout service (tons 
>of ships, facilities, and the X-Boats)??  The Imperial bureaucracy?  Etc. 
>etc.

That is the figure according to _TCS_. IMO the Army, Scouts and Marines
would come out of the naval taxes too, but there's no rule to say they
do (Unless you count _Striker_ which does specifically include the Army,
but do the tax calculations in a way that varies from 1/3rd of the Cr500
to 5 times the Cr500). The X-boats presumably makes a profit. The Imperial
bureaucracy must be paid for either out of the Emperor's stock portfolio 
or out of some further taxes (after all, we have taxes to the tune of 
Cr2000 per person unaccounted for).
  
>>System defense budgets for your average population 7 world is 70% of 
>>7,500 MCr, 

>Where are you digging up these figures here?  I'm a little confused.  Around
>Cr105 per person for system defense (I divided your figure by 50,000,000, the
>midrange for a pop 7 world).  

I used 15,000,000 as the population of the average pop 7 planet. As you point
out that is propably 3 times to little, but I've been trying to err on the
side of caution (except for that embarrassing factor 10 mistake ;-).
 
>Okay, I'll bite.  Now, you have salaries, life support, maintenance (again,
>they're fighting pirates so this'll be higher than usual), 

Correction. They are not fighting pirates because pirates wouldn't be able
to survive in this environment, so there won't be any to fight.

>Now, 5,250 MCr can buy you _5_ Kinunir Class ships or _24_ Patrol Cruisers, 
>not 50 or 200+ respectively.

But it can maintain 50 and 200+ respectively.

>Since they are also charged with local defense, they have to have SDBs too,

No no, an SDB is just a non-jump capable patrol ship (or cruiser or battle-
ship, depending on size). I'm talking about the _equivalent_ of 50 Kinunirs
or 200+ patrol ships. For one world that may be 200 SDBs, for another it may
be 3 30,000 T cruisers. The main point is that a pirate would be made to
attack them (and shortly afterwards he would be dead).

>they can buy _21_ of them.  This goes down by a factor of 10 each time you go
>down a population level.  A pop 6 world can buy .5 kinunir class ships, or
>2.4 patrol cruisers, or 2 SDBs, a pop 5 world can buy .05 kinunir class
>ships, .24 patrol cruisers, or 2 SDBs.  A pop 4 world could pay for the
>_maintenance_ of 5 Kinunirs, 24 patrol cruisers, or 20 SDBs.  A pop 3 world
>couldn't even maintain a single Kinunir each year!
 
> Now, here's the bombshell:  The average world size is, according to the dice
> throws, 5.  Hardly the unstoppable juggernaut you claim.

That's not much of a bombshell considering that I carefully accounted for
that by using 36 worlds for my example and even spelled out how may of each
population level there was.
 
>I dunno, your numbers are way too high.

Not according to either _TCS_ or _PE_. And I can't say that I feel that 25%
taxes of which 1/5th goes to defense fails the reality check either. But
then, I live in a country where taxes averages 30%, with 60% not uncommon
for the upper income levels.

>When I get the time, I'll puzzle it out further.  For now I am unconvinced
by your numbers, especially since you seem to be off on your own math...

Yes, that's was a bad mistake, wasn't it? Off by a factor 10! Unforgivable, 
don't you think? I hang my head in shame.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:10:14 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

Uhhh...does _Ursus americanus_ defecate in the forested area? ;-)
Very good, very good indeed. 3G3 is better, but the product has been good
all along.

Email me privately if you want the conversion info for T4...better
yet...check out the web site and get the Excel spreadsheet package
for 3G3. An electronic version of 3G3 in .pdf form and the spreadsheet
package is only $13, and is a hell of a deal.

go to: http://www.hyperbooks.com/10012.html to see about this.


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> I have the 2nd printing, 1989 version, of 3G, "3G-02" Gun Design for any
> RPG.
> Is this supplement any good?  I've never used it after buying it in
> 1989.
> 
> --
>                               The J-Man
>                              GOC Systems
>                            j-man@iname.com
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:14:11 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: The Piracy Thread

Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> writes:

> On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>Yes, but he still has to pay his bills. The operation has to keep in the
>>black. That is one of the fundamental differences between the public and
>>the private warship.
> 
>If the piracy actions are but a single facet of an overall terrorist
>campaign, then the action _does_not_ have to be profitable.  

No, but then it isn't piracy anymore. Then its warfare. I never claimed that
someone couldn't conduct war if he had the funds to pay the price.

>By definition, Class A build Jump-capable ships, Class B build non-Jump
>capable.  Annual maintenance of starships must be performed at Class A or
>B starports.
> 
>So, for pure system defense, a SDB must be built at a Class A or B
>starport, then ferried to the Class C,D or E system it will be based in.
>Once there, it must be ferried _back_ to the Class A or B starport
>(probably the same one it was built at) for maintenance.

An SDB is merely a non-jump-capable starship. There is no reason why you
can't use jump-capable ships for system defense. Assuming that the cost of
the non-jump part of a warship is MCr0.85/T (a figure I got by calculating
the averages of 10 cruisers and battleships in _Fighting Ships_), you get
about 90% bang for your buck (or clout for your credit, as an Imperial
would put it) if you buy jump-1 ships down to 50% c-f-c if you buy jump-6
ships. So if you have to garrisson a neighboring system you could use
jump-1 ships that can jump back to get serviced and rotate them (That 
would have the added advantage that your ships can run away if the Zhodani
shows up in force). Or you could have a tender ferry SDBs back and forth,
which would work out even cheaper. You'd need 13 ships to have 12 ships 
stationed in that system all the time. Not a massive drop in efficiency.

>>>The maintenance and repair facilities for these ships will have to be
>>>imported.  The personnel manning these ships will very likely have to be
>>>imported. (Can you say mercenaries?) But, it really comes down to, it's
>>>not how many ships can a system support, but how many ships can the sector
>>>starports turn out?
>> 
>>And the average answer is roughly 5 trillion credit squadrons per billion 
>>people living in the sector. That's what I've been trying to get across. 
> 
>And how much does a BatRon of Tigress-class dreadnaughts cost?  A BatRon
>of Plankwells?   Alas, I no longer have a copy of 'Fighting Ships'...

8 Tigresses would cost 2.9 trillion credits. 8 Plankwells would cost 0.96
trillion credits, which means that one billion people can support 1 BatRon
of Tigresses, a BatRon of Plankwells and 4 BatRons of 50,000 T cruisers 
and still have enough left over for 240 Kinunirs. And the average Imperial
planet in 1100 has 1.5 billion people.
 
>>All navies I've heard of have had ships of various sizes for various jobs.
>>Ships of customs and anti-piracy work size are also ideal for pickets. 
> 
>Generally the smaller ships do it.  (FF,DD and CGs) In the Traveller
>universe, I would tend to believe it will be ships under 5,000 tons.

Agreed. And the standard Corsair is supposed to be, what, 400 T?
  
>>Come on, you can't be serious. You couldn't run an interstellar civilization
>>if there really were a 1 in 36 chance of a misjump every time.
>
>Actually, no.  I play 'house rules' for jump.  I try and debate with the 
>baseline being the 'canon' universe, unless I am trying to change 'canon'.

I like to stay within canon too, but I make one proviso: viz. that canon
makes sense. As far as I am concerned Marc Miller himself can claim that
there is an unavoidable 1 in 36 chance of misjump per jump and I still
wouldn't accept it.
 
>>>How much of your resources are you going to throw at it?  Every ship that 
>>>a Class C, D, or E system has to buy is credit that flows _out_ of the 
>>>system. 
>> 
>>Every ship a class A or B system build is a loss of resources too. The two
>>situations are very alike, except that the loss is slightly bigger for the
>>C, D, and E systems, but not that much bigger. If you want to be able to
>>defend your system, you need either ships or a friendly ally with ships.
>>In any case, once you have the ships, you may as well get some use out of
>>them. 
> 
>With the Class 'A' and 'B' ports, the sale of the ship will result in the
>influx of credit.  

The money used to buy the ships are taxed from people in the same system.
There is no influx of credit there. Any influx of credit comes from those
C, D, and E systems that buy ships from you.

>>>Every person that mans and/or maintains the ships are skill sets that are 
>>>not being used to generate credit either in the industrial base, 
>> 
>>And so is every person that mans and/or maintains the ships of the class A
>>and B systems. 
> 
>Again, in the class 'A' and 'B' systems, the infrastructure to produce and
>maintain the ships, as well as to educate and train the personnel to man
>those ships is in place.  

Yes, but all they do is produce warships. You can't eat ships, you can't burn
them, you can't cuddle them and they can't cut your hair. As far as the 
living standard of the people on the planet is concerned, anything used on a 
warship is merely wealth poured into space. As long as you don't count the 
savings from not being plundered or conquered, of course. A warship is as
much a drain on the economy as a policeman is. He eats, he drinks, he takes
up space, he uses up bullets and wears out uniforms, and he dosen't produce 
one solitary bit of wealth.

>Class 'A' and 'B' systems are going to be able to draw from a pool of
>experience, and will have the resources to pass on experience to new
>generations.  Class 'C', 'D', and 'E' ports will not have the resources to
>pass on that experience as effectively. 
 
All that is besides the point since I'm claiming that (a tiny part of) the
ships built on Class A worlds will be used to defend all those C, D, and E
worlds.
  
>Yep, but only where the intra-system jump is significantly shorter than
>the travel time through normal space.  A normal space freighter can make
>the passage with twice the cargo that a jump-space freigher can.

Surely not. A jump-1 ship uses 12% for engines+fuel, so a non-jump
freighter will have 14% the capacity of a jump-1 freighter. Still a
significant difference, I admit.
 
>You have made many good points.  I think the core of our disagreement lays
>in the use of capital ships for anti-piracy and customs work, 

I don't want to use capital ships for anti-piracy work, I just think that
any capital ship will have a chilling effect, to put it mildly, on pirate
activity in those systems where they are stationed.

>...the number of small ships available to any system,

That's the real rub, of course. To repeat what I said in another posting:
I'm not saying that it dosen't take considerable assets to prevent piracy, 
just that it takes considerably less than what is available. And I'm
prepared to back up that opinion with figures (Sometimes they will be off
by a factor 10, but, hey, that's why I post them: so that I can get them
corrected ;-)

>and the access that 'C', 'D' and 'E' systems will have to these ships.

They don't need any access at all the way you mean. All the need is 
membership in the Imperium (or just an alliance with a high-population
world with an A starport).

>Do you agree that corsairs (a career option available through much of
>travellers existance) can exist if:
> 
>1) Supported by a private corporation and/or world government
>2) Supported by a terrorist organisation
> 
>or 
> 
>3) Operates from outside established imperial borders, raiding into
>Imperial space?
> 
>Note that I am not saying makes a profit here...just exists?

Yes and no. If you want to wage war and can afford to pay the bills and
can keep your base secret, then it any competent captain can manage to
avoid combat with Imperial forces. But unless you have the wealth to
fund something the size of an Imperial Squadron, there's not much you
can do with your "pirate" ships. If you can afford a BCr squadron, then
you can do some good (or rather, bad), but the 400 T Corsair would have
either the life expectancy or the success of a 19th Century Mexican
border gang in 1997.

If I was funding a terrorist campaign against the Imperium then I think
I could think of better ways to spend my money.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:28:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> Call me a weapons-monger but I'm always looking for new ways to "vape"
> the enemy.  :)
> 
> At what tech level would man-portable Jump-Rifles become feasible?

Jory,

Learn this song ...it seems to be your theme ;-)

"Weeee represent the heavily-armed-kids,
....the heavily-armed-kids,
....the heavily-armed-kids,
Weee represent the heavily-armed-kiiiiids,

.....And welcome you to munchkin land!"

As for the TL of JumpGunsMP...ohhhh..about 30, 35 or so, but you have to
find FSY's cleverly hidden pocket universe, where Hengabar demonstrates
his newest toys by shooting at a lifelike replica of Grandfather... 

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:35:00 -0500
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

At 09:14 PM 9/28/97 -0500, "vanya" wrote:
>snip<
>Heck, I'll volunteer to *fix* it, update the errata page, and give some of
>my precious time to maintaining it.  All I need is two things:
>
>1. Someone at IG to give the word.
>2. A place to put it all.
>
>Not that I believe that such an offer would be accepted...
>
>Hmm...  Hey, Marc!  Who's arm do I have to twist to get a job as IG's
>part-time webmeister?  I'm cheap :-)

Vanya,

Sorry but you are over qualified for that job. Current IG hiring policy is
to only hire the incompetent, inept, and the clueless. You sound like you
know something about web pages ie that makes you over qualified for IG.<G>

Engage the White Globe NOW, maximum evasion, jump of out of here, incoming
flames predicted.
- -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas  |Email:sinbad@dfw.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon 
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:52:19 +1200 (NZST)
From: Idiot/Savant <idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

And the prophet Marc did speak thusly unto the masses:

> T4.1 needs a ship design system and a space combat system. TNAS is
> the ship design system; TSCS is the space combat system.
>
>         The Traveller Naval Architecture System (TNAS) provides the
> ability to design spacecraft, starships and small craft for
> Traveller quickly (a typical design takes less than 30 minutes) and
> easily. The system is based on standardized components which are
> selected from lists. 

 An expanded, more versatile QSDS-like system is good, but only if it
maintains the same backwards compatibility with FFS2 that QSDS has with
FF&S.  Introducing a new system which is incompatible with the previously
published ones would simply repeat the same mistake made with Bk 2 / HG in
Classic Traveller...
 
- --
Idiot/Savant			idiot@sans.vuw.ac.nz
Thou shalt not suffer a spammer to live

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1894
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 29 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1895



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...
Types o'Dmage
Re: Rumor Quashing
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...
GURPS: Traveller
Psionic Knights
Re: Piracy in the Imperium, or, Argh, matey!
Re: Jump Supressor
WBH Religious Profile Query
Future Thudd Designs.
Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun an
Request for ideas!
Re: TNE Fixes & Very (LONG) Sharp Knives
Re: Future THUDDD Designs.
Craters!
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1893
How high are skill levels, really.  (LONG Monte Carlo)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:02:36 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Roderick Darroch Elliott wrote:

> 
> 
> 	Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules
> worth of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of
> liquid hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?

Rod, you're beginning to scare me a lot...

According to my handy 5th edition of _College Physics_ Sears Zemansky and
Young, the energy produced by a proton-proton fusion reaction (4H -> 1 He)
is 25.7 MeV.

970 kg of H2 is 485,000 moles of H2. Multiply this times Avogadro's number
(6.02e23) to get 2.92e29 molecules H2. Divide by 2 (to get the needed four
protons) you get 1.46e29. Multiply that times 25.7 you get 3.75e36 eV.
times 1.602E-19 Joules you get 6.01e17 joules, or one _hell_ of a bang!

6.01e11 Mj...yeeesh! That's a planetbuster all right! 

NOW Jory's gonna ask how we can put this into a hand grenade ;-)

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:27:47 -0400
From: "Glenn Crawford" <glennc@nelvana.com>
Subject: Types o'Dmage

From:           	eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
> Any ideas on how we could incorportate this without getting overly
complicated?

How about, any penetrating (thrusting weapons, bullets) damage above 0.5
target strength (represents muscle mass) is doubled. For cutting, any damage
above target strength is doubled. For blunt, damage is never doubled. For
flame based weapons (energy weapons etc,) any damage above 0.5 con is
doubled

I am still working on the high realism (this does not have to mean
excessively lethal) damage system (or HR(TDNHTMEL)DS for short, but not by
much)  with a medic friend of mine

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:42:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rumor Quashing

>"Long-time Traveller editor and writer Loren Wiseman will serve as
>Line Editor for the GURPS Traveller series of books and will write the
>first release." Emphasis mine.

>Please take careful note of the phrases "Line Editor" and "series of books"

Argh, I was mistaken!!!  

Sorry :)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:41:00 -0400
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 16:26:10 -0500
>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>
>Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

>Doug Berry wrote:

>>
>>At 03:57 PM 9/26/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>>What rules book are "Jump Projectors" in?  and do they have
>>>"man-portable" versions?
>>
>>Sqquullippptttttt!!!!!!
>>
>><The sound of a mouthful of coke being expelled through my sinuses onto 
the
>>screen>
>>
>>Gah!  Rod, I think FS has a new conceptual engineer canidate here...
>>
>>Jump Projectors are huge, spinal mount weapons.

The Commander smacks his forhead, "D-Oh!  Why didn't I think of that!  That 
just the EEEEE-Vil little gadget I've been looking for!"   );-{>  (the Devil 
himself said so!)

>        Hm... that would be kinda cute, though.  Someone annoys you, you
>just point, click, and he goes away.. :)

I remeber these things from MT, large weapons, very high tech 
Gradfather/Cthulhu weapons.

I also remember the Man Portable version, although they were not in Trav, 
but might be in the Future with GURPS-Trav (but ghods i hope not! <G>)

Ever hear of the tachyonic shotgun?

(The Commander ducks for cover!)
____________________
\\  //  "New Technologies for the New Imperium"
T E K   Military and Civilian Contractor
//  \\  Contact cmdrx@magicnet.net or bprankard@theiia.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:48:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Ringrose <ringrose@ai.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...

>>>>> On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 23:49:14 -0700, "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net> said:
>	Just out of curiosity, can anybody here tell me how many joules worth
>of bang will a fusion explosion involving one displacement ton of liquid
>hydrogen (which masses about 0.97 metric tonnes IIRC) produce?
Douglas> First he wants to know the armor value for 50km of rock, now this.

Douglas> I am *really* afraid of this man....  --

Why?  Just because he wants to make a planet-buster and end his civilized
universe.

OK, maybe I'm making a few leaps in logic here, but...  If it is possible to
destroy planets, and somebody gets the tech, somebody else will steal it from
them.  If there's a war, they'll each end up using the planet busters on each
other.  The "winner" will have few enough resources left (because their planets
got toasted) that they can't hold up to another agressor and will have to use
the planet-busters as deterrant.  Which will work until someone steals the
tech again.  Continue until you don't have enough planets left.  It may take a
while, but eventually you _will_ run out of planets.  Anybody want to try
building an entirely spacegoing civilization?

Just hope Virus doesn't come up with one.

	- Robert Ringrose
	  ringrose@ai.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:10:39 -0500
From: John Kovalic <muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: GURPS: Traveller

Thought I'd post this from the Steve Jackson Games foldre on AOL (PyramidEd
is Scott Haring, Big Wig at SJG):

************************************

Subj:  Re:GURPS Traveler
Date:  9/28/97 2:46:30am
From:  Pyramid Ed

<<<Now, a quick question:  are there any plans for GURPS
Traveller besides the one alternate timeline book?>>>

Absolutely. We plan a line of books. Many, many books.

************************************

John Kovalic


**************************************************
       "This must be Thursday. I never COULD get the hang of Thursdays"
                                              - Arthur Dent
**************************************************
                                       "Wild Life": a Web comic -
        at MUSKRAT CENTRAL: http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/muskrat/
**************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:16:22 +0200
From: "Mark Seemann" <dko3835@vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Psionic Knights

Mon, 29 Sep 1997 02:01:49 -0500 Alex Rebsch wrote:

> Subject: Psionic Knights
> 
> I have seen several references to this product but have never heard of it
or seen  it. Does anybody have any information about it, who makes it, is
it still available, whats it about? 

It's a mini-campaign of four adventures for MegaTraveller that appeared in
The Travellers' Digest issues 14-17.

It's set in the Spinward Marches ca. 1118 and deals with a psionic noble
order that was suppressed during the Psionic Suppressions, but not entirely
eliminated. The order then split up in a 'good' order called the Order of
the White Star and a 'bad' one called the Order of the Red Star. The player
characters get involved with White Star through a series of quite
interesting adventures.

The campaign stops after four adventures, but with plenty of room for more
adventures. I'm currently playing a campaign based on these adventures,
although the actual adventures are far behind. We had great fun with them,
and still have with the current campaign.

Quite good, if you can get them.

Mark Seemann
mark@dk-online.dk
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/mark_seemann

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:35:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Piracy in the Imperium, or, Argh, matey!

>Cr500 (which I think is too high to begin with) for a naval tax (this is
over
>1/10th of the average persons budget according to the Traveller Book [CT]) x
>54 billion = 2.7 trillion.
>
>1/1000th of 2.7 trillion is 27 billion.

Whoops, in the wee hours of the morning I in fact made a mistake in my own
math.  Cr500*54 billion citizens = 2.7x10^13 power, OR 27 trillion, not 2.7
trillion as I erroneously stated.  My apologies for any confusion created.
The rest of my math should check out fine though.

Gad...  How did I make such a mistake, and then repeat it with "1/1000th of
2.7 trillion is 27 billion."

Sorry everybody for my late night stupidity :)

Semo

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:51:40 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Jump Supressor

>> I mean, after all, you
>> are applying a gravity field to a target ship.
>
>It's gotta be the *rate of change* of
>the gravity field (ie tidal forces).
>
>So a tractor won't work, because it's a *uniform* field.

Okay, I'll bite. Can't you vary the field strength of a tractor? Scale it
up and down? Or better yet, focus it on just a small portion of the target
vessel? I'm sure that the latter, at least, would generate some tidal
forces.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:57:22 +0100
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: WBH Religious Profile Query

Here's something I've often wondered about, but never thought to ask:

In Government Related Details 8a (God View, p.79), what *are* you 
supposed to roll for government type E?  2D+3D-5 makes very little 
sense to me.

Also, what do you do if they want a faith that isn't a state religion 
(i.e., for one of the other government types)?  Do you just decide which 
of D or E would be most appropriate?

Thanks,
 
John (back from holimoon)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 10:48:00 -0600
From: Sanders <kalin@swlink.net>
Subject: Future Thudd Designs.

 Hello. Below are four suggestions for future Thudd ship designs. Feedback
 welcome (bracing myslef and taking out fire insurance... :).

 'Conestoga' Class Merchant/Transport
 
 Based on the wagon trains used to move settlers to the American West.
 
 - Dual purpose starship. 1) Transportation of colonists bound for the Wilds
   (as    low-berth corpecicles?) and the material needed for establishing a
   foothold on a new world. 2) Once destination is reached these starships can 
   then be converted to various other uses by the fledgling colony (nucleus of
   system Navy, in system transport of raw materials, Merchant Marine, etc.)

 
 'Handcart' Class Transport 

 A variant of the 'Conestoga' class of starship, this type of ship is based
 on the   handcarts used by secondary Mormon colonists bound for Utah.

 - A cheap, 'one-shot' starship used to move colonists (but not material) to
   newly settled systems. Upon arrival in target system, these starships are
   designed to be dismantled and the components used in the building  of 
   self-sufficient homesteads for the new arrivals.


 'Tramp Belter' Class Starship 

 We have 'Tramp Merchant' starships in Traveller, why not 'Tramp Belter' 
 starships?

 - These ships should meet the following requirements. 1) Jump capable - able 
   to set off for that new 'gold rush' five parsecs distant. 2) Living quarters 
   for Belter/Prospector and family if any (i.e. mining camp/tent city type of 
   accomodations - cramped and uncomfortable, but that doesn't matter because 
   any sacrifice is worth it...afterall, that 'big strike' is always just
around 
   the corner.) <<I know this mindset - my father was born in a tent beside
a    
   stream located in a mining camp in the Rockies.>> 3) Small foundry for  
   processing ores. 4) "Mule" class gig or shuttle for use in hauling
supplies       in-system, and actual prospecting amongst the asteriods
(afterall - you hardly 
   want to park your Starship/home in the denser areas of an asteriod field). 
   5) Hauling individual (or a small number of) 'rocks' or samples back to 
   starship for processing (both ore samples taken from asteriods and meteor 
   fragments for fuel extraction). 6) Extremely sensitive sensors for use in 
   prospecting likely areas of an asteroid field (or moon). 7) Beacon/markers 
   used to 'stake-out' a claim/rock. 

 That's all the requirements I can think off off-hand, but I'm sure there
are some 
 I  am overlooking and welcome suggestions.


 Lastly - a concept blatently swiped from the "FTL 2448" SF-RPG that I think would 
 fit nicely into the Traveller Universe and would make for an interseting Thudd 
 design contest. 

 - To quote: "Towed in modular sections and assembled, the Alvarez High Port became 
   a success that was licensed or purchased by most worlds that could afford
a real    port. With 24 ship bays and 46 shuttle/office bays, as well as
shore-leave    facilities, it has become a status symbol for corporations."

 - I think this type of pre-fab modular approach to a small High Port would be 
   ideal for a number of situations. Some of these might be: 1) Smaller
worlds not    capable (or wealthy enough) to build one from scratch. 2) A
hub for Belt mining    operations (supply depot, ore trans-shipping,
recreation facilities for those    lonesome Belters, corporate offices for a
Belt mining corporation, etc.). 3) A 
   hub for Gas-giant fuel skimming operations (fuel purification plant, fuel
depot 
   or fueling station for Merchant starships, living quarters/base for the Fuel 
   Skimmers, etc.). 4) A nexus Space Station/transit point for the moons of a 
   Jovian planet (similar to the Sean Connery movie in which he plays a
Marshal on 
   an Io based mining camp. The assassins he battles arrive via shuttle from
just 
   such a High Port).

 Well, that's it for now. I hope this sparks interest in using these ideas
as possible  future Thudd designs.

 Paul
 ( kalin@swlink.net )

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:09:00 -0400
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun an

I see Hengebar and the Kids are up to no good again, but I just wanted to 
throw my 0.02cr worth.

<Grumpy Old Codger Mode ON>

In my day, we never used 0.1c rocks, 10m bore mass driver projectiles!  FEH! 
 We used huge honking big lasers, designed using FF&S, ahn I dont mean that 
new fangled 2nd version thing, we used the original!

In my day I built the biggest laser ever concieved. It had a focal array 
diameter of close to 1000km and it had a discharge energy of about 1 Million 
Mega-joules.  This sucker would vape through a planet's atmosphere rip 
through the crust and come out the other side!  The result was one totaly 
fragged planet!  AH, THE GLORY DAYS!

FEH! Then the guys at the sanity board decided that lasers should be 
limmited to TLx50MJ

Wimps!

Well, before that we had the Darrian thingamajig that could cause Suns to go 
Nova!

Heh!  In my day we could vape an entire Solar System!

Speaking of which, just how much energy would it take to cause a sun to go 
Nova anyway? MUhahahahahahaaaaa...>PFFFSSSST!<(the sound of a spray hypo 
being used on the Commander)

<Old Codger Mode Off>

I'm ok now, but remember...

"...the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compaired to the power 
of the Force!"

I feel much better, adding my bit of insanity.  But Hengebar should watch 
his kids, they seem to have their hands in my Cookie Jar again!

X-TEK Industries
Makers of Cthulhu Chip Cookies and Vargr Biscuits
Insanely Delicious!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:19:54 -0400
From: Bob Sanders <bsanders@amghome.com>
Subject: Request for ideas!

I have a few questions for the list. Thanks in advance for any response.

First some background: I have been an avid Traveller player, collector
and ref for the past 18 years.  And I do not have access to my books
right now, as I am on the road. :( This makes it difficult to do
research in any way.

I am in the process of starting a new group in the Massilia Sector. I
have set up the background of the 3I, the history and some of the
rumors, etc. for the players. The secret of the Ancients is going to be
the long term pull that will get the group to the Spinward Marches=85
eventually.  In the mean time they will be chasing a red herring about
the lost human homeworld and that some humans may be the Ancients.=20

The cast will be a tough group of troubleshooters for the local 3I rep
(as well as doing some miscellaneous odd jobs) starting around the year
50. If I remember that is a very interesting point in time. Ex scouts
and military, with lots of guns. They want a real paramilitary style of
play. (Humph, better be careful what they ask for with Traveller!)=20

Now for the questions, and a request for ideas and suggestions:=20
As they head towards Earth I need to come up with a few reasons why the
3I has not pushed more into Massilia any more then 10% (according to M0)
by the year 50.  What is holding them back? I know the Geonee (soon to
be mistaken for the Ancients) are in *one* subsector, but what about the
rest?  By the year 50 or so the 3I has already reached the Zhodani!

If it is an empire, what type, how strong and when do they become
absorbed into 3I? Or is it just a lack of population, and I should go
through the sector data and remove most of the worlds population and
create a vast barren zone? What does everyone think?

Is there any new system data on Massilia? I do not agree with the FS
data, too many high tech, high pop/very-low pop systems. It does not
make any sense to me, so I am looking at having to redo all of the
systems one at a time. Unless someone has a better way??!!

What background source data exist for the Massilia sector. I pulled the
Knightfall adventure before I left, but are there any other sources for
information? Old Challenge, JTAS, etc?

Any suggestions for some types of adventures. Some of the old judges
guild stuff will work in concept. (I like the idea of scouting a system,
and then returning and finding something different!) =20


Once again, thank you all for any response. If anyone is interested, I
will post a update once and awhile.  The ones I have read were very
enjoyable.=20

Bob Sanders

trav=B7el=B7er or trav=B7el=B7ler (tr=B2v"=85l-=85r, tr=B2v"l=85r) n. Abb=
r. trav. 1. One
who travels or has traveled, as to distant places. 2. Chiefly British. A
traveling salesperson. 3. Nautical. a. A metal ring that moves freely
back and forth on a rope, rod, or spar. b. The rope, rod, or spar on
which such a ring moves.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Sep 1997 14:10:24 -0400
From: edgar@beckett.rmaonline.net (Mr. Whipple)
Subject: Re: TNE Fixes & Very (LONG) Sharp Knives

"David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> writes:

> And now...
> 
> ***************
> * A Question! *
> ***************
> 
> TNE Related of course, but all suggestions are welcome:
> 
> 	I'm working on some rules for constructing extra-sharp edges for
> knives/swords etc... because I figured by the year 5000+ mankind must have
> developed some pretty sneaky techniques for improving melee weapon
> penetration. I'm not actually going to have monomolecular weapons, but
> something pretty close to it.
> 
[...]
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 		1) What kinds of things could we do to make things
> 		   sharper (eg diamond tips and so on...)
> 		2) At what tech level should this option appear and how
> 		   fast should it develop?
> 		3) How much is this going to bump up the price of the
> 		   weapon (obviously based on area being sharpened)?
> 		4) Is there some way that these weapons could be dulled
> 		   and sharpened through some sort of artificial
> 		   manipulation at higher tech levels to avoid some nasty
> 		   cuts?

I'm afraid 20th-century technology has already beaten you to it. Twice.

First, we have The Sharpest Possible Blade (tm), which is made from
ordinary, boring glass, volcanic or synthetic, it doesn't matter.
These blades taper to the width of a single atom at their edges, which
degree of sharpness I trust you will agree cannot be exceeded with
normal matter. They aren't the most durable things in the world, but
they are as sharp as it gets.  To do better, you would have to switch
to clarke-magical force fields or something.

(We also have monomolecular technology in the form of mono-crystalline
metals. They probably wouldn't be much sharper than ordinary metals,
this being a forging technique rather than a question of alloys, but
they do hold an edge longer and better than the same alloys do when
conventionally forged.)

Penetration, on the other hand, is another matter. They way we handle
this now seems basically to involve reducing friction between the
blade and whatever you're trying to penetrate. Sliding the blade along
the cut speeds penetration, and I believe this has to do with
overcoming static friction. Once you've done this by sliding the
blade, the force applied directly to penetration doesn't have to, and
penetration is improved. Serration seems to be similar, but the
mechanism is less clear to me.

(I know, pretty boring so far. Hang on.)

The other way we handle the friction/penetration problem is
lubrication.  Remember cop-killer bullets?  The teflon coating over
the hard brass slug reduces friction between the slug and the
target. In the case of Kevlar armor, this means that instead of
snagging a bullet-sized patch of the cloth to elastically absorb the
impact, the cloth stretches across the slippery surface of the
bullet. The point of contact get smaller and smaller in terms of how
much cloth is touching the slug, so fewer fibers have to fail for the
slug to get through. The bullet penetrates much more efficiently for
its size/mass/speed.

So what does this mean for me, the consumer? 

You could try high-tech lubricants on your blade, either materially or
with some sort of friction-reducing field. You could also try
vibrating the blade rapidly, an old standby.

Here's a sneaky idea. Let your actual blade be dull as toast, but coat
it with gazillions of nano-machines that act like power shovels, or
like stainless-steel versions of the cilia in your lungs. When the
blade touches a target, the nano-machines start digging/sweeping/
whatever, and your blade literaly burrows into the target. If you
don't have an answer for your question number 4, your blade will
always cleave anything it touches in twain, no questions asked, unless
the power runs out. Ouch.

I should think this would be pretty expensive.

- -- 
Edgar Whipple            This is my signature.
ewhipple@rma.edu         It's not much, but it's all I have.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:33:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Future THUDDD Designs.

Thanks for the input!  These all sound cool, and may be used in future
THUDDDs.

The November THUDDD will be a TL 12 heavy fighter; after that, we'll do
some civilian craft, perhaps a lower-tech merchant.  Any other requests or
suggestions?

By the way, note once again that the THUDDD will now be operating on a
bimonthly schedule, with some slop between the months (e.g., the November
contest will actually start in mid to late October).  This will allow
things to proceed at a less frantic pace, and allow more room for dealing
with the unexpected.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:08:25 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Craters!

Hey, this is great! I'll just get my calculator....

Thanks, Roderick!
Martin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:05:55 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1893

Craig Berry wrote:

> *sigh* First Roderick, now you.  What's with this list, anyway?  I
picture
> us all standing at the window of a liner in orbit around, say, Regina...a
> pleasant, lovely, earth-like world...as our guide describes in reverent
> tones all that goes to make such a world: the planetessimals merging
> around a young T-Tauri star; the complex exchanges of mass, energy, and
> angular momentum; the differentiation of core from mantle; the slow
> cooling and solifification of the crust; the long, patient march of life
> from unicellular algae to complex, unique, irreplaceable forms, modifying
> the atmosphere, leaving its unmistakeable stamp even on the
> lithosphere...and then our guide pauses for questions.
> 
> Roderick:  Umm, what would it take to blast entirely through the crust?
>            Roughly, I mean.
> 
> Martin:    Or how 'bout to split it into two chunks?!
> 
> Roderick:  Yeah, or a bazillion chunks!
> 
> Martin:    Woo hoo!  Or glowing vapor receding at .5 c!
> 
> It's an odd thing when the much-touted Sense of Wonder relies so heavily
> on Blowing Things Up Real Good. :)

And hurt my rib cage. I haven't laughed so hard for a long while....

But Craig, you misunderstand. Exploring the destructive limits of
technology is not mere childish 'Blowing Things Up Real Good' (though BTURG
is fun, too) - our exploration into the annihilatory extremes of harsh,
beautiful physics is an art. THE art. Cannot you appreciate the
counterpoint, the soul-baring moment one faces when a world, a thing of
ancient beauty, formed from chaos by the inexorable forces of physics, is
returned to a state of utter chaos by the utmost application of that
physics? A complete circle, symbolising the fragility of our being, and so
much more. That moment when an ancient world is blasted into the middle of
next week by the very life forms which took so long to grow and evolve
there... the symbolism of 'growing up' of a species when they destroy the
planet which gave them life, now that they no longer need to be tied to
earthly things and can leave the parent.... ramble... mutter....

Actaully what I really wanted to know was: Howe much energy must I deliver
to convert an Earth-type planet into convenient chunks so that my asteroid
mining ship can strip them of their mineral wealth - think of all that iron
in the core! I think I know now. Thanks.

And thanks for a good laugh. 
Now maybe I'll write something thoughtful about bunnies. 
Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:09:23 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: How high are skill levels, really.  (LONG Monte Carlo)

A second try - as best as I could tell, the first did not make it.

An interesting diversion on the skill debate.

I was feeling a bit bored, so I put together a program which determined the
number of times a given skill slot in chargen is hit, given that there is
an equal probability of hitting each of the 36 skill slots.  Note that a
stat increase fits in a skill slot, like any other thing rolled on the
skill table.

Scroll below the conclusions to see the tables that justify them.  Or just
scroll down to admire them - I am fairly proud.

Conclusions:

We have to decide how Traveller values skill levels.  I am going to assume
that they feel someone should be competent after three terms or so.  This
is enough time to gather a doctorate and reach a decent scholar rank, or
enough time to have significant experience in an industrial job.  Since
this is only thirty, the experts and wizards of the trades are going to be
in their 40s or 50s, but those people may well not be substantially more
skilled, as they are fairly likely to have changed professions somewhere
around this time.  Further, they are going to be spending more time
fighting off aging by spending skill gains on stat increases, to the extent
they have any control over the matter.  Current character generation does
not address this issue, so neither did the simulations I ran.

This is not an issue that can easily be ignored - in TLWH, characters
regularly encounter people with skill levels of six and seven, and it has
been proposed that broker should count for half as much as under CT.  In
order to evaluate that, you need to know just how many Broker-4s and
Watercraft 7s there are out there.

From a quick perusal of the skill charts, it looks like most professions
tend to have a given skill on the charts two or three times, with the vast
majority of professions having the primary skills of the profession on the
tables twice.  Entertainers are the significant exception, in that they
have the primary skill on the tables four times.  What does this mean?

Well, if a character is around thirty, so three terms, they will have their
birth skills, plus another 15 skill levels .  We would expect that of the
thirty six skill slots a given profession has, that 23 of them were never
hit.  We would also expect that 10 were hit once, and two hit twice.
Roughly a quarter of all characters encountered would have a skill slot hit
three times.  This means that a thirty year old character with a skill
level of seven in a skill that is on the charts once is pretty darned
unlikely.

Assume that the skill in question is a primary skill, so that it is on the
charts twice.  If all skills were on the tables twice, then 48 percent of
them would never be hit, 32 percent would be hit once, 15 twice, and 4
three times.  About one percent of the time, such doubled skills would be
hit four times.

At first look, this does not seem helpful, since the tables are a mix of
skill that are on table once and twice, but one can use the numbers anyway
as a guide, since the two groups exactly overlap.  If a skill is on the
tables twice, then there is roughly a 48% chance that it will be at level
zero, 32 % at level one, and only a 1 percent chance that it will be a
level four.

From this, we must conclude that level seven and eight skills are just not
going to happen to normal characters.

Now lets see what the high end looks like - after twenty years in the
service, a five term veteran will have 25 skill levels, plus service
automatic skills and inborn skills.  This means that 38 year olds are going
to have only one quarter of the PRIMARY skills possible on the charts are
going to be at a level zero, about a third at level one, a quarter at level
2,  and 11%, 4% and 1% at 3, 4, and 5.

The less important skills that appear on the table once?  Those break down
as 50% at 0, 35 at one, 12 at 2, and 3 at 3.

So, how should we interpret this?  I would assume that a twenty year
veteran is going to be about the image of competence in the Traveller
world, and this person is going to have skills around 1-2 for almost
everything.  Given that professions give automatic additions to the most
critical skill, a player should expect twenty year veterans to have a 2-3
in a primary skill, unless they are unusual.  further, they should likely
expect this twenty year vet to have a single skill at three from the rolled
tables among the non-primary skills, or perhaps two if the table is heavy
in primary skills.

So far, I was fairly surprised and relieved.  I expected the vastly
increased receipt of skills to produce much higher levels.  Instead, it
produced characters who knew a lot more lower level skills than in previous
games, but nearly as many more fours and fives as I first expected.

I then looked at entertainers who can get performance four times on the
charts.  This leads to skill levels of five being somewhat common, and a
nonzero chance of getting to an eight.  This is enough higher than other
professions that I decided to replace half of the performance skill picks
with some kind of interpersonal skill, to be decided later.

Finally, I looked at the range.  While the variance was reduced by raising
the number of picks, so there are not going to be many people with skill
levels above four or five, the range is disturbingly high.  For the skills
on the tables twice, you have a noticeable number of skill level 8 folk
running around.  This might be acceptable, but it seems against the idea
that the range is fairly narrow.

The lesson for me was that for any profession, primary skills should appear
twice, and the rest should appear once.  Professionals should be expected
to have a significant number of the one slots skills, but will still miss
half of them.

Here are the tables that led to those conclusions.

I generated 1000 characters.  Each term, I gave them 5 picks from the
tables.  When I was done, I counted skill levels.  Note that this Monte
Carlo simulation could be thrown off by the random number generator, but
these results seem to be fairly robust to changing the generator.  Also,
with 1000 runs, we likely have roughly two significant figures, though the
table below prints out three decimal places.  Someone who feels energetic
might want to use the law of large numbers to see just how good these
estimates really are.  Or might want to run similar analysis for a few
million characters.  As far as the Mark One Eyeball says, do not trust
anything after the first decimal place.

The table below shows, out of the 36 skill slots, how many slots had a
given level of skill that appears just once in the tables.

level	1 term	2	3	4	5	6	7	
0	31.286	27.193	23.614	20.545	17.849	15.565	13.494	
 1	 4.439	 7.721	10.083	11.634	12.664	13.107	13.328	
 2	 0.264	 0.986	 2.025	 3.192	 4.332	 5.495	 6.537	
 3	 0.011	 0.093	 0.246	 0.546	 0.982	 1.490	 2.090	
 4	 0.000	 0.007	 0.031	 0.072	 0.142	 0.292	 0.445	
 5	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.010	 0.029	 0.043	 0.092	
 6	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.001	 0.006	 0.010	
 7	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.002	 0.004	

level	8 term	9 t	10 t	11 t	12 t	13 t	14 t	
0	11.704	10.218	 8.900	 7.762	 6.690	 5.828	 5.067	
1	13.243	12.901	12.418	11.837	11.293	10.575	 9.895	
2	 7.483	 8.203	 8.791	 9.292	 9.609	 9.862	 9.927	
3	 2.708	 3.379	 4.124	 4.707	 5.352	 5.931	 6.473	
4	 0.687	 1.011	 1.327	 1.740	 2.141	 2.559	 3.001	
5	 0.138	 0.229	 0.340	 0.509	 0.685	 0.902	 1.153	
6	 0.031	 0.050	 0.085	 0.127	 0.181	 0.264	 0.369	
7	 0.005	 0.005	 0.010	 0.018	 0.037	 0.058	 0.080	
8	 0.001	 0.004	 0.005	 0.007	 0.010	 0.018	 0.027	
9	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.001	 0.002	 0.007	
10	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.001	 0.001	

For example, after 1 term, you can expect 31.26 skill slots to have never
been selected, 4.49 to have been hit once, and 0.25 to have been hit twice.
 Alternatively, a character who has gone through one term can expect 0.25
level 2 skills, 4.49 level 1 skills and 31.26 skills that were available on
the tables that they did not get at all.

Note that every columns must total to 36, and that if you want percentages,
you can divide the number of skills on the table above by 36 to get the
probability that a given character who served that many terms will have a
given skill at the specified level.  For convenience, those charts are
given here.

level	1 term	2 t	3 t	4 t	5 t	6 t	7 t	
 0	86.906	75.536	65.594	57.069	49.581	43.236	37.483	
 1	12.331	21.447	28.008	32.317	35.178	36.408	37.022	
 2	 0.733	 2.739	 5.625	 8.867	12.033	15.264	18.158	
 3	 0.031	 0.258	 0.683	 1.517	 2.728	 4.139	 5.806	
 4	 0.000	 0.019	 0.086	 0.200	 0.394	 0.811	 1.236	
 5	 0.000	 0.000	 0.003	 0.028	 0.081	 0.119	 0.256	
 6	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.003	 0.003	 0.017	 0.028	
 7	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.003	 0.006	 0.011
	
level	8 t	9 t	10 t	11 t	12 t	13 t	14 t
0	32.439	28.150	24.400	21.150	18.419	16.122	13.908
1	36.786	35.836	34.494	32.881	31.369	29.375	27.486
2	20.786	22.786	24.419	25.811	26.692	27.394	27.575
3	 7.522	 9.386	11.456	13.075	14.867	16.475	17.981	
4	 1.908	 2.808	 3.686	 4.833	 5.947	 7.108	 8.336	
5	 0.383	 0.636	 0.944	 1.414	 1.903	 2.506	 3.203	
6	 0.086	 0.139	 0.236	 0.353	 0.503	 0.733	 1.025	
7	 0.014	 0.014	 0.028	 0.050	 0.103	 0.161	 0.222	
8	 0.003	 0.011	 0.014	 0.019	 0.028	 0.050	 0.075	
9	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.003	 0.003	 0.006	 0.019	
10	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.003	 0.003	 0.003	

For example, after 1 term, roughly 1% of the skill slots have been hit
twice, 12% once, and 87% never.  Thus, if a skill is in two slots, the
chance of it being hit

four times: 1% * 1% = 0.01%
three times: 12% * 1% + 1% * 12% = 0.24%
two times: 1% * 87% + 12% * 12% + 87% * 1% = 3.18%
one time: 12% * 87% + 87% * 12% = 20.88%
never: 87% * 87% = 75.69%

Putting a skill on the table twice means that a person who only serves one
term still has a three in four of not getting it, which is perhaps 12%
better than if it is only on the table once.  So far, so good.

And the expected skill level is .2088+.0618+.0072+.0004 = .28, so tasks in
a profession that they expect a one term chap to do regularly better not
require more than a quarter of a skill level on average for something that
is on the table twice.  (This probably really means is that they better
require a skill one no more than a quarter of the time, and the rest, a
skill 0 better be able to handle it.)

It also means that expected skill level of something where they come in
with a skill 1 is a lot higher than they would expect to get via natural
means over the first one or two terms.

In order to make this process easier, I reran the Monte Carlo with
assumptions of skills being on the tables twice and three times.  The
numbers are reproduced below.

Number of skills at this level if the skills are on the table twice:

level	1 term	2 t	3 t	4 t	5 t	6 t	7 t	
 0	13.546	10.134	 7.615	 5.715	 4.298	 3.248	 2.440	
 1	 3.936	 6.036	 6.787	 6.808	 6.355	 5.756	 5.069	
 2	 0.490	 1.551	 2.735	 3.727	 4.453	 4.745	 4.884	
 3	 0.028	 0.255	 0.724	 1.343	 2.062	 2.768	 3.248	
 4	 0.000	 0.023	 0.126	 0.339	 0.648	 1.073	 1.623	
 5	 0.000	 0.001	 0.011	 0.056	 0.150	 0.323	 0.545	
 6	 0.000	 0.000	 0.002	 0.011	 0.028	 0.070	 0.147	
 7	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.005	 0.013	 0.036	
 8	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.004	 0.006	
 9	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	
 10	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	
 11	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	

level	8 t	9 t	10 t	11 t	12 t	13 t	14 t	
0	 1.816	 1.354	 1.023	 0.775	 0.587	 0.441	 0.333	
1	 4.313	 3.682	 3.040	 2.537	 2.033	 1.661	 1.357	
2	 4.911	 4.683	 4.381	 3.950	 3.545	 3.110	 2.750	
3	 3.713	 3.945	 4.121	 4.158	 4.096	 3.929	 3.615	
4	 2.014	 2.498	 2.883	 3.188	 3.469	 3.580	 3.642	
5	 0.856	 1.167	 1.506	 1.873	 2.224	 2.614	 2.898	
6	 0.275	 0.471	 0.677	 0.926	 1.169	 1.453	 1.734	
7	 0.081	 0.151	 0.271	 0.402	 0.575	 0.725	 0.946	
8	 0.019	 0.038	 0.073	 0.138	 0.204	 0.305	 0.442	
9	 0.000	 0.008	 0.021	 0.037	 0.070	 0.131	 0.188	
10	 0.001	 0.002	 0.003	 0.012	 0.018	 0.035	 0.069	
11	 0.001	 0.001	 0.001	 0.003	 0.008	 0.013	 0.018	
12	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.002	 0.002	 0.006	
13	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.002	

Percentage chance of a given skill slot being at this level if it is on the
table twice:

level	1 term	2 t	3 t	4 t	5 t	6 t	7 t	
 0	75.256	56.300	42.306	31.750	23.878	18.044	13.556	
 1	21.867	33.533	37.706	37.822	35.306	31.978	28.161	
 2	 2.722	 8.617	15.194	20.706	24.739	26.361	27.133	
 3	 0.156	 1.417	 4.022	 7.461	11.456	15.378	18.044	
 4	 0.000	 0.128	 0.700	 1.883	 3.600	 5.961	 9.017	
 5	 0.000	 0.006	 0.061	 0.311	 0.833	 1.794	 3.028	
 6	 0.000	 0.000	 0.011	 0.061	 0.156	 0.389	 0.817	
 7	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.006	 0.028	 0.072	 0.200	
 8	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.006	 0.022	 0.033	
 9	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.006	
 10	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	
 11	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.006	

level	8 t	9 t	10 t	11 t	12 t	13 t	14 t	
0	10.089	 7.522	 5.683	 4.306	 3.261	 2.450	 1.850	
1	23.961	20.456	16.889	14.094	11.294	 9.228	 7.539	
2	27.283	26.017	24.339	21.944	19.694	17.278	15.278	
3	20.628	21.917	22.894	23.100	22.756	21.828	20.083	
4	11.189	13.878	16.017	17.711	19.272	19.889	20.233	
5	 4.756	 6.483	 8.367	10.406	12.356	14.522	16.100	
6	 1.528	 2.617	 3.761	 5.144	 6.494	 8.072	 9.633	
7	 0.450	 0.839	 1.506	 2.233	 3.194	 4.028	 5.256	
8	 0.106	 0.211	 0.406	 0.767	 1.133	 1.694	 2.456	
9	 0.000	 0.044	 0.117	 0.206	 0.389	 0.728	 1.044	
10	 0.006	 0.011	 0.017	 0.067	 0.100	 0.194	 0.383	
11	 0.006	 0.006	 0.006	 0.017	 0.044	 0.072	 0.100	
12	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.006	 0.011	 0.011	 0.033	
13	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.006	 0.011	

Number of skills at this level if the skills are on the table three times:

level	1 term	2 t	3 t	4 t	5 t	6 t	7 t	
 0	 7.776	 4.992	 3.263	 2.100	 1.340	 0.868	 0.572	
 1	 3.511	 4.651	 4.468	 3.860	 3.141	 2.447	 1.856	
 2	 0.653	 1.813	 2.768	 3.302	 3.412	 3.205	 2.805	
 3	 0.057	 0.464	 1.099	 1.762	 2.298	 2.616	 2.778	
 4	 0.003	 0.070	 0.320	 0.710	 1.160	 1.642	 1.977	
 5	 0.000	 0.009	 0.075	 0.201	 0.458	 0.784	 1.198	
 6	 0.000	 0.001	 0.005	 0.053	 0.143	 0.305	 0.529	
 7	 0.000	 0.000	 0.002	 0.010	 0.035	 0.099	 0.187	
 8	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.010	 0.025	 0.071	
 9	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.002	 0.006	 0.020	
 10	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.003	 0.006	
 11	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	

Level	8 t	9 t	10 t	11 t	12 t	13 t	14 t	
0	 0.362	 0.235	 0.153	 0.101	 0.065	 0.049	 0.032	
1	 1.399	 1.015	 0.715	 0.544	 0.378	 0.249	 0.187	
2	 2.376	 1.995	 1.601	 1.195	 0.936	 0.731	 0.538	
3	 2.735	 2.557	 2.262	 2.008	 1.666	 1.381	 1.113	
4	 2.232	 2.347	 2.469	 2.330	 2.190	 1.925	 1.667	
5	 1.514	 1.749	 1.939	 2.119	 2.164	 2.169	 2.081	
6	 0.826	 1.147	 1.403	 1.627	 1.828	 1.951	 1.994	
7	 0.353	 0.561	 0.797	 1.028	 1.259	 1.438	 1.664	
8	 0.133	 0.241	 0.389	 0.571	 0.776	 1.031	 1.179	
9	 0.052	 0.097	 0.159	 0.276	 0.400	 0.549	 0.785	
10	 0.013	 0.040	 0.072	 0.132	 0.211	 0.299	 0.401	
11	 0.003	 0.013	 0.030	 0.046	 0.079	 0.138	 0.208	
12	 0.002	 0.001	 0.008	 0.013	 0.030	 0.059	 0.092	
13	 0.000	 0.002	 0.002	 0.007	 0.013	 0.019	 0.033	
14	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.002	 0.002	 0.005	 0.012	
15	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.005	 0.009	
16	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.002	 0.002	 0.003	
17	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.002	

Number of skills at this level if the skills are on the table four times:

level	1 term	2 t	3 t	4 t	5 t	6 t	7 t	
 0	 5.011	 2.779	 1.535	 0.841	 0.483	 0.258	 0.137	
 1	 3.095	 3.436	 2.903	 2.129	 1.489	 0.976	 0.648	
 2	 0.786	 1.990	 2.519	 2.565	 2.213	 1.827	 1.373	
 3	 0.099	 0.622	 1.335	 1.896	 2.099	 2.018	 1.835	
 4	 0.009	 0.150	 0.521	 0.992	 1.464	 1.826	 1.879	
 5	 0.000	 0.020	 0.154	 0.419	 0.762	 1.099	 1.407	
 6	 0.000	 0.003	 0.031	 0.123	 0.344	 0.619	 0.941	
 7	 0.000	 0.000	 0.002	 0.028	 0.118	 0.244	 0.479	
 8	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.007	 0.021	 0.104	 0.192	
 9	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.006	 0.027	 0.081	
 10	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.002	 0.023	
 11	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.004	
 12	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	

level	8 t	9 t	10 t	11 t	12 t	13 t	14 t	
0	 0.072	 0.041	 0.020	 0.009	 0.003	 0.001	 0.001	
1	 0.408	 0.252	 0.151	 0.084	 0.049	 0.030	 0.017	
2	 1.001	 0.707	 0.474	 0.332	 0.209	 0.140	 0.096	
3	 1.540	 1.252	 0.990	 0.745	 0.547	 0.393	 0.248	
4	 1.806	 1.611	 1.396	 1.134	 0.933	 0.726	 0.552	
5	 1.613	 1.653	 1.591	 1.475	 1.269	 1.059	 0.873	
6	 1.224	 1.427	 1.507	 1.504	 1.440	 1.338	 1.173	
7	 0.744	 0.983	 1.200	 1.322	 1.361	 1.353	 1.335	
8	 0.329	 0.557	 0.778	 1.026	 1.194	 1.253	 1.285	
9	 0.168	 0.314	 0.476	 0.643	 0.891	 1.050	 1.174	
10	 0.068	 0.120	 0.237	 0.380	 0.520	 0.725	 0.894	
11	 0.019	 0.055	 0.110	 0.199	 0.308	 0.470	 0.600	
12	 0.008	 0.025	 0.051	 0.084	 0.156	 0.239	 0.386	
13	 0.000	 0.003	 0.017	 0.049	 0.078	 0.124	 0.172	
14	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.011	 0.031	 0.062	 0.119	
15	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.003	 0.008	 0.023	 0.046	
16	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.002	 0.012	 0.021	
17	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	 0.002	 0.003	
18	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.002	
19	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.002	
20	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.000	 0.001	

Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1895
***********************************
Traveller-digest     Monday, September 29 1997     Volume 1997 : Number 1896



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...
Re: The Piracy Thread (still long)
Re: TNE Fixes & Very (LONG) Sharp Knives
[T97#1886] Re: Positive Note
Doing Research...
Re: Request for ideas!
Re: Rumor or fact??
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun an
Re: Future Thudd Designs.
Hey, Marc, what are you basing the ship combat system on?
Traveller in the Hall of Fame
Re: starship design in T4.1
Re: Coke projectors
re:Ship Conversion
Re: Armour and 50km rocks. . . .
Re: Sustained Laser Fire
re:Animal Encounters; errata for T4
re:Sustained Laser Fire
Nano-shovels and other unpleasant gadgets

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:50:02 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

My next question is, what tech level can planets be made "Jump capable"?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:52:19 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...

> 970 kg of H2 is 485,000 moles of H2. Multiply this times Avogadro's number
> (6.02e23) to get 2.92e29 molecules H2. Divide by 2 (to get the needed four
> protons) you get 1.46e29. Multiply that times 25.7 you get 3.75e36 eV.
> times 1.602E-19 Joules you get 6.01e17 joules, or one _hell_ of a bang!
>
> 6.01e11 Mj...yeeesh! That's a planetbuster all right!
>
> NOW Jory's gonna ask how we can put this into a hand grenade ;-)
>

Say, that's a smashing idea!  good job ole chap!
- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:57:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: The Piracy Thread (still long)

I suspect that I am not winning this debate!  :)

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

[snip]

> >>>imported. (Can you say mercenaries?) But, it really comes down to, it's
> >>>not how many ships can a system support, but how many ships can the sector
> >>>starports turn out?
> >> 
> >>And the average answer is roughly 5 trillion credit squadrons per billion 
> >>people living in the sector. That's what I've been trying to get across. 

And I am trying to point out that building and technical resources are
limited.

SpinWard Marches Sector - data taken from "Supplement 3 The Spinward
Marches"

SubSector	Class A	Class B	Worlds	Total #
				w/TL>=9	of Worlds
========	=======	=======	=======	=========
Cronor 		3	4	13	24
Querion		0	6	7	21
Darrian		4	6	14	29
Five Sisters	2	5	13	27
Jewell		3	6	11	23
Vilis		2	4	7	26
Sword Worlds	2	19	21	28
District 268	1	9	14	32
Regina		5	5	13	32
Lanth		1	8	14	27
Lunion		4	7	15	25
Glisten		5	5	14	29
Aramis		2	8	15	26
Rhylanor	7	8	15	32
Mora		6	5	11	26
Trin's Veil	6	9	11	33

For the sector, we have a total of 53 Class A starports and 114 Class B
starports supporting the civilian and military needs for an entire sector.
I would also point out that there are only 13 Class A starports TL D+
(only 3 of the coveted TL F Class A starports), and that there are 3 Class
A starports that are (surprisingly) TL 8-.  (House rule - Class A starport
must be TL 9, Class B starport must be TL 8 - comments?)  There are 208
planets with the TL base to support the stellar community.  This is from a
sector with 440 mainworlds.  (ie. Class A - 12%, Class B - 26%, TL9+ - 47%)

Any single starport can only build so many ships at a time.  And,
commercially, you are only going to build the capacity that will be used,
not the maximum the planet can support.

So, back to the question that spawned this data deluge - how many ships
will a starport be able to build?

[snip]

>  
> >>>How much of your resources are you going to throw at it?  Every ship that 
> >>>a Class C, D, or E system has to buy is credit that flows _out_ of the 
> >>>system. 
> >> 
> >>Every ship a class A or B system build is a loss of resources too. The two
> >>situations are very alike, except that the loss is slightly bigger for the
> >>C, D, and E systems, but not that much bigger. If you want to be able to
> >>defend your system, you need either ships or a friendly ally with ships.
> >>In any case, once you have the ships, you may as well get some use out of
> >>them. 
> > 
> >With the Class 'A' and 'B' ports, the sale of the ship will result in the
> >influx of credit.  
> 
> The money used to buy the ships are taxed from people in the same system.
> There is no influx of credit there. Any influx of credit comes from those
> C, D, and E systems that buy ships from you.

Right.  That's the point I was trying to make.

> >You have made many good points.  I think the core of our disagreement lays
> >in the use of capital ships for anti-piracy and customs work, 
> 
> I don't want to use capital ships for anti-piracy work, I just think that
> any capital ship will have a chilling effect, to put it mildly, on pirate
> activity in those systems where they are stationed.

Mildly put.

> 
> >...the number of small ships available to any system,
> 
> That's the real rub, of course. To repeat what I said in another posting:
> I'm not saying that it dosen't take considerable assets to prevent piracy, 
> just that it takes considerably less than what is available. And I'm
> prepared to back up that opinion with figures (Sometimes they will be off
> by a factor 10, but, hey, that's why I post them: so that I can get them
> corrected ;-)
> 
> >and the access that 'C', 'D' and 'E' systems will have to these ships.
> 
> They don't need any access at all the way you mean. All the need is 
> membership in the Imperium (or just an alliance with a high-population
> world with an A starport).

ahhh...

IMHO, Any military alliance within the Imperium is going to be soundly
slapped down.  That's a direct challenge to the authority of the Imperial
nobility (and essentially, resulted in the chaos of the Rebellian).  Any
support for the individuals planets is requested from the Imperial Navy.

The Imperium is ultimately a capitalistic society.  If you need something,
you pay for it.  If you can't pay for it, you do without.  That's why
Class D and E starports are a hazard, and because they are a hazard, they
are unable to get the trade and credit to make them safer.

I tend to see piracy as being cyclic.  An area is vulnerable, and begins
to report piracy.  Eventually, enough pressure is generated to create a
response (either a temporary visit by a CruRon and it's support ships)
which will scare off the corsairs, or a more permanent placement of Patrol
Craft.  Corsairs, not being totally stupid, leave for greener pastures.
Reports go down.  Patrol crews get bored. Navy officers (having missed
thier decoration roll and their promotion roll) clamor to be transferred
to "greener" pastures where they might shine.  Resources are re-allocated.
Corsairs beging to operate in the area again...

System Defense would be static, but again resources would not be allocated
for the poorer systems, because it is a waste of resources to defend
those systems.


- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:56:48 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: TNE Fixes & Very (LONG) Sharp Knives

Would the nano-bots be able to react fast enough on the blade edge to be
of any help?  Remember a thrust or slice is only a second or two in
duration and it does take time to 'convert' mass.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:53:52 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T97#1886] Re: Positive Note

On Sat, 27 Sep 1997 15:02:41 -0400, "Kenneth Bearden"
<dreamer@weck.brokersys.com> wrote:

>> But enough about that...  Where does one get a copy of the KBv2.0 =
rules
>> stuff?

>I'll send you a copy of the long form with all the whys and why-fors=20
>in it.  This will include details on specific issues, like how to=20
>use the mutiple action rule, Spectacular Success and Spectacular=20
>Failure based on a character's skill level (the more skilled he his,=20
>the better chance of SS and the worse chance of SF), and  other=20
>things like JOT.

>I'm sending this in a word.doc.  If you have a problem reading that,=20
>let me know.  I've got it in regular e-mail format too.

Also, just to let you know, it's available on the Freelance
Traveller web site,
http://www.dragonfire.net/~FreelanceTraveller/Features/RuleAnal/KB20.htm
or .html

I encourage people to send stuff to me for including in Freelance
Traveller; now that I'm not going to classes two nights a week, I
have a better chance of being able to update the site on a timely
basis.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:53:45 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: Doing Research...

OK, most of the information I need, I have - but I don't seem to
have ship profiles that I can trust.

I'm playing around with the conceptual design of a new mercantile
system for T4 (feeling that the modified CT system is so
unrealistic as to be worthless, and the DGP mod to the MT system
not much better), and I want to test some of my ideas with real
ships.  As near as I can tell, most campaign groups will most
likely be using (or trying to use) one of the following ships.
I'd like _accurate_ T4 profiles for them, including

	Cost of construction
	Maximum Jump Rating
	Number of staterooms suitable for high passage use (given a
		crew with the appropriate number of stewards)
	Number of additional staterooms suitable for mid passage use
		(given appropriate steward crew)
	Maximum cargo capacity (either tons displacement or cubic
		meters, I don't care which)

This represents a minimum amount of information; if the standard
profiles include all this, then they're fine - but I don't know
if I can trust what appears in Starships, or which if any I can
trust from the other T4 releases.

The ships I'm interested in:

	Scout/Courier
	J1 Free Trader
	J2 Far Trader
	Subsidized Merchantman
	Yacht
	Subsidized Liner
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:38:00 -0600
From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@glja.com>
Subject: Re: Request for ideas!

Bob Sanders wrote:
> 
> Once again, thank you all for any response. If anyone is interested, I
> will post a update once and awhile.  The ones I have read were very
> enjoyable.
> 

Yes, please. I also find them enjoyable. I'm thinking about posting
my own campaign's sessions to this list but we're in the middle
of a couple of adventures so I don't think it'd be easy to follow.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:05:11 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Rumor or fact??

As someone who has been involved in GURPS Traveller before all this
and who intends to use GURPS for all his Traveller gaming in the
future, I think all this talk of IG's demise are "way" premature.
Even if GURPS Traveller does sell better, that means it will
represent a steady stream in liscencing fees to keep IG's going.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:17:25 -0500
From: yikes@evansville.net (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

Planets! Phaugh! I wanna know at what TL you can make a Dyson sphere jump
capable!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun an

O.K...who is going to be the advocate for the Vogon Constructor Fleet?

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:24:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Ayers <mark@bbic.com>
Subject: Re: Future Thudd Designs.

I like the Conestoga and the Tramp Belter

#include<iostream> // SPAM is illegal
int main(void) {	
    cout << "Net Admin for the Book and Bean Internet Cafe\tadmin@bbic.com\n";
    cout << "Traveller referee for Metro Seattle Gamers\tmark@bbic.com\n";
    return (8);
}

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:33:48 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Hey, Marc, what are you basing the ship combat system on?

Since you posted a rough guide to how design and combat are going to work,
I assume you have made a decision regarding what kind of combat system you
intend to use.

What is it?  By this time, enough combat systems have been designed, that
it is going to be reminiscent of one of them.  A sorta-Battle Rider, or a
sorta- high guard abstract one, or a counters on the desktop-style like
classic traveller?  Is it going to be very detailed like Brilliant Lances
or Star Fleet Battles, or rather loose, like the original CT one where a
ship is described by half a dozen numbers?

I am asking, as I want to do a few ship designs to try out some ideas for
my own private design system, also FF&S2 based, and it struck me that I
might do it best if I know just how much armor is good, how much weaponry
is good, that kind of thing.

BTW: in my own game, I use the following very abstract system.

The rules:

I.  The typical secondary weaponry of a ship of that class can smash a
typical system in two hits if it hardened, one hit if it is not.

II.  Ships have a good dozen to two dozen systems, so a battle with
secondary armaments will take a while.

III.  A spinal mount can cripple another ship of the same class in three or
four hits, so battles with spinal mounts tend to be fast and bloody.

IV.  A spinal mount from one class is about 2-3 times as effective as the
secondaries on a class one size larger.  Since combat space on a ship space
is divided roughly equally between defense, secondary armaments, or primary
armaments, you want a spinal mount if you are going to face a ship of your
class, while you could have twice the secondary punch if you live without.

V.  Crew skill is very important.  A few genius pilots, gunners, and so on,
can turn the tide of a battle.

VI.  Good lock ons are worth a lot as well, especially if linked with good
tactics.

VII.  One tech level is a factor of ten in combat power if fundamental
systems have not changed, and up to a factor of a hundred if they have.
For example, when Bob Meson built the first Meson gun, it invalidated every
design out there until the meson screen was created.

VIII.  The fuzzy wuzzy fallacy means that an increase in combat firepower
of a unit of x results in a factor of sqrt(x) in actually deadliness.  I
have not decided whether this affects ship combat.

Therefore, a destroyer hit by another destroyer's main gun and full
secondary armaments by surprise is likely going to be very, very unhappy.
Likely smashed beyond recognition.

Scott
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu   http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment 
results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934))
"The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:42:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Traveller in the Hall of Fame

I just received in the mail today a plaque inscribed=85

The Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts and Design
Inducts into the
Adventure Gaming Hall of Fame

Traveller
Game Designers=92 Workshop

Designer: Marc Miller

Inducted at
Origins 1997


The Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts and Design

Gama

1997 is the 20th Anniversary of the publication of Traveller... it was
originally released at Origins in 1977.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:08:38 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: starship design in T4.1

lugh1@juno.com wrote:
>whats up with all the TL15 ships . I thought TL15 was beyond what was
>readily available ? I can and will not allow TL15 in my game except as
>artifacts and yet I see a proliferation of TL15 ships in other games .
>why is this ?


T4.1 is the core rulebook for Traveller 4th Edition, so it needs to cover
all the Milieaux under consideration.

Although TL12 is the standard for M0, M1100 is TL15, and M1115 (the
rebellion) has marginal TL16 abilities, and TL17 hinted at.

M1100 is the period associated with Classic Traveller and many campaigns
are still played then using T4 rules (mine is for example). Hence TL15 is
necessary. (The errors in EA refering to RoM technology >TL13 can be
ignored and treated as future 3I weapons).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:53:16 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Coke projectors

Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com> wrote:

>Who wants to _make_ ships jump? (Well, ok, me, sure)
>Much better - preventing people from jumping. Keeps
>those damn scouts & couriers from jumping off with news
>of battle...

Your question should read -

Who wants to _make_ *enemy* ships *mis*-jump?

And the answer should be evident...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:37:03 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:Ship Conversion

Alex Rebsch <grazzit@flash.net> writes:

>Also are the ships in Fighting Ships in the same format as High Guard?

Yes,the ships in 'Fighting Ships', supplement 9, are in the same format as
High Guard.
No, the ships in 'Fighting ships of the Shattered Imperium' aren't in the
same format as HG.

Answering both questions possible...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:44:30 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Armour and 50km rocks. . . .

Roderick Darroch Elliott <rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca>

>>	Can somebody do me a favour and calculate the armour value (using
>>FF&S2) of 50 kilometers of stone?
>
>What kind?

>Generic planetary crust?

*Whatever* it is you are designing, Starlane Drive Manufacturers hereby
requests that we are placed on the shortlist for the Rim and Diaspora
franchises for this weapon.


(That'll stop the Vilani expansionism)

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:48:14 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Sustained Laser Fire

Edward Swatschek wrote:
>Nitpick: the homopolar generator is not a battery (in the sense of
>long-term power storage) - it's acting as a capacitor since the
>battery does not have the power output needed to power the laser pulse
>directly.

Nitpick ;-)

>'in the sense of long-term power storage' -
you mean 'in the sense of long term *energy* storage'. Power is *rate* you
can supply energy. Energy is, um, *energy*.

Don


- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:31:41 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:Animal Encounters; errata for T4

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

>Page 144 and 145: The rules say you need to roll the Attack/Flee number
>		  _or more_ for the animal to Attack/Flee. It should be
>		  the number or less.

If it's any help, when we discussed 101 Lifeforms at EuroGenCon we agreed
on 'roll lower' as the convention as it fitted in with T4's target numbers.
IIRC the tables actually generate 'roll higher' values.. which means a
herbivore is more likely to attack than a killer... p142 discussed rolling
under a value

>Page 152: The 'To attack' collumn of the ANIMAL CHARACTERISTICS table have
>          the 'To flee' figures and vice versa.

Unless they are generating using the old 'roll higher' convention from CT
and MT?


I have been regenerating the numbers based on the assumption that the roll
is on 2D6 as a baseline (ie 9 on the rules given would become 5..).

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:31:44 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re:Sustained Laser Fire

"David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> wrote:

>Ok, in FF&S it says Direct Electrical Input lasers have a homopolar
>generator strapped to them to provide power (in other words a battery).

Not quite. It is an energy storage device (a flywheel) that is designed to
deliver energy at a high rate (ie complete discharge in a short period of
time). 'Batteries', ie electrochemical cells,  suffer greatly from repeated
discharge (shortened lives) and also from deep discharge (can cause the
cell to die).

>What would be the damage effects of strapping a power plant to the laser
>(most likely fusion) and firing a continuous beam?

If you deliver the power continuously, you need a much bigger (bulkier,
costly) generator, and the support equipment needed for this. Your
generator needs to be able to meet the peak demand of the laser
continuously. You may also have to upgrade the laser to handle the constant
heat.

Admittedly, Fusion plus makes this viable in T4 but this isn't in TNE's
version of FFS. Naturally, a continous beam would do more damage over time
(it's a question of RATE of energy deliverly). Lasers in Traveller and 2300
do damage by high energy delivery in a very short period. There's a good
discussion of the philosophy of laser design in 2300 IIRC.

>Obviously there'd be
>some cooling problems, but my best guess is eventually the laser would
>penetrate most armour and cause nasty amounts of damage in a short space
>of time...

Yes. Translating the continuous fire into game mechanics could be fun though.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
"Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:22:06 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Nano-shovels and other unpleasant gadgets

Just to prove that I'm a thoughtful and basically nice guy, I'll leave
thermonuclear fusion for a while and enter the melee weapons debate.... You
guys think I'm wierd for wanting to crack worlds - and here we are
designing swords which burrow into the target. For some reason that idea
made me shudder. 

Seriously, in considering HTH weapon damage we have to consider how melee
weapons do damage.
	There are three ways: 
	By Transferring Kinetic Energy (like blunt instruments)
	By Direct Tissue Damage (cutting implements)
	By Internal Organ Damage (Thrusting weapons, which also do DTS)

The KE delivered by a club is not in the same league as that delivered by a
9mm bullet. The effect is to displace and somewhat batter  tissue rather
than impart huge amounts of energy and rip the tissue to pieces. Melee
weapons are thus limited in ways that bullets are not - unless said melee
weapon is propelled by a forging press. There will be upper limits to what
a melee weapon can do to its victim, limits not far ahead of what we can
manage nowadays.

Allow me to cite some examples. To do this I will present you with some
kinds of sword.

First there's the traditional light cavalry sabre, a curved cutting sword.
Take the British 1796-pattern light cavalry sabre if you want a definitive
type. This weapon is designed to slash against unarmoured targets. It is
designed for a 'hit and slide' wound, cutting the target open as the curve
of the blade slides it past. It's not actually that important how hard you
hit, so long as the weapon is sharp and it's moving parallel to the
victim's flesh then it'll 'lay a man's bones open to the wind'. Keeping a
good edge is everything, but so long as you do - ouch. However, this type
of sword will bounce from a thick greatcoat (at Balaclava the Heavy brigade
found their swords incapable of penetrating Russian greatcoats, and had to
resort to Number 5 and 6 cuts - to the face. Sabre types should perhaps do
a straight 2D in Traveller, and be pretty useless against armour. There is
less impact than slicing, 'bread knife' effect.

My second type of sword is the thrusting, 'foil' type. Damage is based upon
penetration, as would be the case with a knife or similar thrusting weapon.
A sharp point and 'slippery' edges would be advantageous. This type of
sword needs to penetrate only 2 inches into the chest cavity to cause a
major wound - internal organ damage and all that. Getting 2 inches'
penetration with a slashing sword is pretty difficult. Foil damage should
be in the 2D range, or perhaps (6+1D) to reflect the unpleasantly fatal
nature of such a length of steel inserted into the chest cavity. They
should also be treated as armour-piercing if the blade is stiff and thin
enough. If it isn't VERY strong, such a weapon would snap rather than
penetrate heavy rigid armour, even if driven hard enough. More likely it
would just slide harmlessly off. Soft armour like Cloth (or Diplo?) would
be quite vulnerable to stiff thrusting swords which while also being
elegant, are more lethal against diplo-armoured nobles than handguns
(assuming you take diplo as ballisitic cloth and not very good against
armour-piercing swords. I do. Why else do all these nobles carry blades?)

The third type is the heavy cutting sword, like a broadsword, the Austrian
pallasch or maybe the Traveller Cutlass (yes it's curved, but....) Now
these swords rely upon impact of a sharp edge, not slashing as such. Impact
is the cause of damage. So hacking weapons do damage based upon the
wielder's strength. Say 1D + 1/2D per 3 full points of STR? That makes STR
12+ guys with axes rather dangerous.! Soft bullet-resitant armour wouldn't
be that good against this type of weapon - your diplo might stop the axe
from cutting you, but the bludgeoning effect would most likely shatter your
ribs
anyway. 

I don't think we can justify much more damage than this. It doesn't matter
whether I push a snapped-off fencing foil or a TL 12 Neutron-forged
superdense Mega-Estoc into your right lung. If it's moving fast enough to
act like a bullet, OK (maybe someone fired it out of a mass-driver) but
otherwise, these two weapons are going to damage just as much tissue. Melee
weapons, like I said, are pretty much limited by what they are, not what
they're made from.

Now, if the weapon (eg our thrusting sword) could be augmented in some way
such that it is no longer 'just' a melee weapon....

Eg - the rather nasty idea of nano-machinery shovelling away as I thrust at
you. Or treating the blade with complex compounds such that it releases
nerve toxins upon contact with human blood. A breakable tip, which leaves a
small quantity of poison, acid, explosive or antimatter (Kidding!) in the
wound - all would augment the damage, but only by changing the weapon.
Likewise causing the weapon to vibrate or become hot - these are extras
which could be built into a weapon, but a sword remains a sword.

To get the most damage from melee weapons I recommend a good thrusting
sword with a sharp point, teflon-greased edges, and maybe a blood gutter to
prevent it getting stuck. Then learn to use it properly. It really doesn't
matter what you shove into someone's eye socket (other, perhaps, than eye
drops). The net result is much the same.

And if you really want to do more damage, well then....
I've got a nice line in Mass Drivers over here....

Martin. 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1896
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 30 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1897



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Future THUDDD Designs.
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Re: Rumor or fact??
Re: Future THUDDD Designs.
Deep meson busters
Re: Sustained Laser Fire
Re: Mass Drivers
Anybody know anything about records?
Re: Grav Tanks (was Re: WW II Ogre tank)
Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...
Re: Jump Supressor
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Risks of dual measurement system
Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame
Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame
Re: The Piracy Threads
Re: Jump Projectors
RE: Traveller in the Hall of Fame
1000 paces
Planet busting...
THUDDD 6 - errata
Sustained Laser Fire (fwd)
Population (was Pirates)
RE: Constant Laser Fire 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Clark <clarkm@OIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Future THUDDD Designs.

  What design system will we be using for the fighter?  In particular,
will the design sequence from Central Supply Catalog be eligible?

______________________________
Dr. Mark Clark
Oregon Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:23:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

In mail you write:

>> 1 mile = 1000 paces (mille pacem)
>
> Is a 'pace' defined as two steps, as in successive plantings of (say) the
> right foot?  Otherwise this implies a stride length of more than 5 feet... 

Right. One pace = 2 "steps".

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rumor or fact??

In a message dated 97-09-29 02:02:46 EDT, you write:

This statement is not correct.
_________________________
 >>My local gamestore owner told me yesterday that GURPS now owns the
 >>rights to the Traveller name and IG will no longer be involved in
 >>producing game material once their current contract ends. Marc Miller,
 >>he said would only be involved peripherally in game product design,
 >>and the "alternate history" GURPS was starting would become the
 >>"official" one.

Gurps is not supposed to be a one-shot.
__________________________________
 >My understanding is that GURPS Traveller is going to be, like most of the
GURPS books, a one shot.
 
Loren is correct... this is an alternative time line, not a replacement for
canon.
__________________________________

    There have indeed been assurances from Loren that his project will be
 an alternative timeline, not a replacement for the original canon.
 
Marc Miller
 
>>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:38:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Future THUDDD Designs.

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Mark Clark wrote:

>   What design system will we be using for the fighter?  In particular,
> will the design sequence from Central Supply Catalog be eligible?

My, that's a tough one!  [think, think, toss coin...] Pending further
analysis on this issue, the CSC system will be eligible, on the basis that
it is a canonical Traveller design system, and excluding it would be
rather arbitrary.

Note, however, that I'm personally unfamiliar with CSC vehicle design; if
there's some facet of CSC which is so much better/cheaper than the FFS
family of systems that it would seriously unbalance the contest, let me
know and I'll reconsider this ruling.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:46:04 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Deep meson busters

While FS's idea isn't workable, I must point out that it is possible to
build *nuclear* shaped charge weapons. Assuming that it is possible to
build fusion weapons that don't require a fission trigger, you can even
make them fairly "clean". 

I suspect that such a weapon would have to be built into something the
size of a ship's boat or pinnace and soft landed on the target. 

Another possibility is a "spinal mount" sized plasma weapon configured
as a "drill". Land the ship (with meson screens on), and start "burning
a hole. I'd expect that you could get some fairly substantial cutting
rates.  (km/hr?)

If available, you'd want tractor beams to scoop material out of the
hole as fast as it melted. This would make the "drill" site about as
welcome as an active volcano (a small one), but it's better than most
other means of taking out such a site. And it's re-usable!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:32:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sustained Laser Fire

In mail you write:

> Another Itty-bitty question:
>
> Ok, in FF&S it says Direct Electrical Input lasers have a homopolar
> generator strapped to them to provide power (in other words a battery).

Not quite. It's a means of storing power "slowly" and releasing it
*quickly*. Think of the clip on strobe light flash units for cameras.
The wimpy little batteries in them *can't* trigger the strobe (it needs
several *thousand* volts and a bit pof current as well). So some fancy
tricks with capacitors and switching get pulled so that the power is
drawn from the battery as fast as it can supply it and then
"concentrated" and dumped into the flash unit in a microsecond or so.
Even so it takes many seconds to accumulate the power for that
microsecond pulse.

The homopolar generators perform a similar function. They store energy
as you pump it in at the highest practical rate. Then they *release*
that energy in a *much*, MUCH shorter interval (thus increasing the
*power*).

> What would be the damage effects of strapping a power plant to the laser
> (most likely fusion) and firing a continuous beam?

First problem is getting a power plant than can supply the required
*power*. Second is getting cables that can conduct it to the laser.

> Obviously there'd be
> some cooling problems, but my best guess is eventually the laser would
> penetrate most armour and cause nasty amounts of damage in a short space
> of time...

Not "some cooling problems". Massive cooling problems. You'd likely
melt the laser in the first few seconds.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:04:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Mass Drivers

In mail you write:

> However, there is a second application, of interest to industry. A mining
> ship fitted with such a weapon should theoretically be able to target plate
> boundaries, drill them open, then apply heavier projectiles (heavier not
> for greater energy - velocity is the king of energy - but for energy
> transfer, ie an effect similar to a dumdum rather than an armour piercing
> round.) These heavier projectiles, applied with precise timing, should
> cause the plates to move, allowing a final projectile (massive) to be
> applied to the core of the world.

Nope!

You forget that the crust is relatively thin. And that everything under
it is *fluid*. Once you get deep enough, the fluid will flow back into
the hole about as fast as you knock it out of the way. 

Hitting the core is *not* simple.

> The 'splash effect', should crack or break the planet into
> conveniently-mined asteroids, and give access to the vast mass of
> iron, radioactives and such currently untappable within the
> inconveniently large planetary masses found in local space.

You forget that it takes a *lot* of energy to move those pieces apart
against their mutual gravity. A lot more than you can supply.

> Patent on both systems is pending. Infringement may result in field
> testing.
> Martin, on behalf of the Munchkin Design Bureau

Too late. Check back issues of the list for my plans for building a
1000 km long mass driver into a rock/ice body in the Oort cloud and
using it to toss "rocks" at planets. The "typical" round was 1 ton at
1.5% c, but larger and slower rounds are possible.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:33:46 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Anybody know anything about records?

This post is very off topic, so please excuse it.  I'm just trying to
find out if anybody here on the TML knows anything about LP's.

My mom passed away, and I have some of her old records.  We are sifting
through things, trashing stuff, and putting on a garage sale with the
rest to help pay for the funeral.

I was curious if anybody knew of a net site that buys old records. 
She's got some doosy's--like the first Beatles album and a record of
JFK's speeches.

Please e-mail me in private if you know of a good site, or a good
mailing list to offer these for sale.

Thanks,

Kenneth.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:40:33 +0000
From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Grav Tanks (was Re: WW II Ogre tank)

At 07:32 PM 9/27/97 +0000, Peter Newman wrote:
><snip>
>
>I suspect that the best design for a grav tank might resemble a somewhat
>flattened (ie airframe hull) sphere.  The sphere will have less surface
>area (which needs to be armored) for the size of its internal voulume. 
>Grav Tanks with adequate power plants can make a pretty fair speed and
>would be helped by airframe hulls.
>
>This does start to bring up the question of where a grav tank ends and
>where a heavy atmospheric fighter begins.
>
>--
> pnewman@alaska.net	Peter Newman 
>--------------------------------------------------------------
><snip>
>

Any grav vehicle should exploit naturally occuring lift where possible. Even
if Fusion+ means cheapest of energy, a lifting body hull shape means more
power for weapons and less for pure lift.  The oblate spheriod, flattened
sphere or 'saucer' shape make sense. Treat the main weapon as a spinal
mount, and the boundary between tank, atmospheric fighter, space fighter and
SDB blur into nothing. The only question is the default (resting) position
of the prime weapon when powered down: polar or equitorial?

Garry

 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:56:44 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Thermonuclear fusion question...

In mail you write:

> OK, maybe I'm making a few leaps in logic here, but...  If it is
> possible to destroy planets, and somebody gets the tech, somebody
> else will steal it from them.

Well, for one thing, it depends on what you mean by "destroy". We are
*currently* capable of building a weapon that would make the planet
unihabitable. And it wouldn't even be that expensive.

We might even be capable of building one that'd "wreck the planet
(render entire surface and most of crust molten).

Both can be done using a "simple" fusion bomb. You just make it *big*.

> If there's a war, they'll each end up using the planet busters on
> each other.

Just like the US and USSR fought a nuclear war? I suspect that planet
busters are "scary" enough to act as a detterent.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:49:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump Supressor

In mail you write:

>>> I mean, after all, you
>>> are applying a gravity field to a target ship.
>>
>>It's gotta be the *rate of change* of
>>the gravity field (ie tidal forces).
>>
>>So a tractor won't work, because it's a *uniform* field.
>
> Okay, I'll bite. Can't you vary the field strength of a tractor? Scale it
> up and down? Or better yet, focus it on just a small portion of the target
> vessel? I'm sure that the latter, at least, would generate some tidal
> forces.

Basicly a tractor is a uniform pull regardless of distance (sort of
like a chunk of the grav fielsd of an infinite flat plane). 

I suppose you could mess with a tractor to give a proper decrement to
the beam. But that would make things *very* range dependent. You'd not
only have to have it aimed in the right direction, you'd have to have
the range set right.

And having the beam "spread", limits your range, because the farther
out you go, the weaker it is.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:03:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

In mail you write:

> My next question is, what tech level can planets be made "Jump capable"?

Jory, 

I think you've got the wrong game. Go out and pick up a copy of GURPS
Lensman. :-)

While I've never read the GURPS sourcebook, I've read all the Lensman
stories. And if ever a universe was suited to munchkins, that one is!
(The "final confontation" involves throwing planets with an FTL
relative velocity at the enemy home world and star).

Of course, the author went even farther in the Skylark stories, but
those aren't suited to role playing. That one ends with stripping stars
from one galaxy to throw at the stars of a second galaxy, while
transferring non-combatant planets into safe orbits around stars in a
third galaxy!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:35:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Risks of dual measurement system

Quoth Craig Berry:
> > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:51:21 PST
> > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> > 1 mile = 1000 paces (mille pacem)
> 
> Is a 'pace' defined as two steps, as in successive plantings of (say) the
> right foot?  Otherwise this implies a stride length of more than 5 feet... 

That should be "mille passuum" (genitive plural of "passus" -- "pacem" is
a form of "pax, pacis -- peace").  And yes, it's two "steps".

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:31:41 -0500
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame

>From: CardSharks@aol.com
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>Subject: Traveller in the Hall of Fame
>Date: Monday, September 29, 1997 5:42 PM

>The Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts and Design
>Inducts into the
>Adventure Gaming Hall of Fame
>
>Traveller
>Game Designers Workshop
>
>Designer: Marc Miller

Neat!  I believe that this is something that *everyone* on the TML would
agree is a Good Thing!  Congrats to you, Marc, and all the other people
that have made Traveller the best SFRPG ever!

- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:37:25 -0500
From: "vanya" <vanya@partyline.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883

> From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1883
> Date: Monday, September 29, 1997 9:35 AM

> >Hmm...  Hey, Marc!  Who's arm do I have to twist to get a job as IG's
> >part-time webmeister?  I'm cheap :-)
> 
> Vanya,
> 
> Sorry but you are over qualified for that job. Current IG hiring policy
is
> to only hire the incompetent, inept, and the clueless. You sound like
you
> know something about web pages ie that makes you over qualified for
IG.<G>
> 
> Engage the White Globe NOW, maximum evasion, jump of out of here,
incoming
> flames predicted.

Aww, c'mon now.  They aren't really 'incompetent, inept, and clueless."
Its just that, unfortunately,  they sometimes make decisions as if they
were

- -Vanya                                         UPP-8D9B85
Traveller ---------------- Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future
Meyers-Briggs personality type:ENTJ          | vanya@partyline.net
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with." | dmoody@bridge.com.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:15:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame

Quoth CardSharks@aol.com:
> 1997 is the 20th Anniversary of the publication of Traveller... it was
> originally released at Origins in 1977.

Congratulations, Marc!  Here's to another decade or two!

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:20:43 -0500
From: "Kevin L. Kitchens" <peiprog@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame

On 29 Sep 97 at 21:31, vanya wrote:

> >The Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts and Design
> >Inducts into the
> >Adventure Gaming Hall of Fame
> >
> >Traveller
> >Game Designers| Workshop
> >
> >Designer: Marc Miller
> 
> Neat!  I believe that this is something that *everyone* on the TML would
> agree is a Good Thing!  Congrats to you, Marc, and all the other people
> that have made Traveller the best SFRPG ever!

IMO, the BEST *RPG* EVER, Period.

Kevin

 The Perfect Game - http://www.peiprog.com/PerfectGame
========================================================
 Serving enthusiasts of computer baseball simulations
========================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:41:04 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: The Piracy Threads

>Maybe this is why pirates still exist in Traveller.  The MegaCorps have
>pressured the Imperial government away from dealing with pirates so the
>pirates will weaken the competative ability of the smaller companies.

Not only is this highly unlikely, it contradicts published canon. In Milieu
0 one of Cleon's reasons for founding the Third Imperium was to combat
piracy, it is specifically prohibited in the Warrant of Restoration.
Adventure hooks and essays in M:0 show the extreme lengths Cleon went to
eliminate piracy; F+ fighter craft, the Imperial Navy, the New Justice
fleet, to the destruction of foreign starports even *suspected* of aiding
pirates.

Moreover, I can see no evidence in *any* of my Traveller material that
piracy was tolerated inside the Imperium. Every example of piracy I can
find was supported by foreign governments. The Reavers, the Morinmoss
pirates, Vargr corsairs, the "Pirate's Lair" in Lishun, the Castran
Marauders, all come from *outside* the Third Imperium, in some cases entire
subsectors from the border. Since starships require an enormous
infrastructure to support, I can't buy individual ships making a living by
attacking free traders. Hostile governments, on the other hand, have the
resources and will to disrupt trade in its enemies. The Castran Marauders,
for example, could more properly be considered the Navy of the Swanfei
Independency.

In the material I have, piracy is organized by hostile governments and not
individuals. However, I don't have every adventure or supplement written. I
would especailly like to hear how piracy is handled in the Flaming Eye
campaign, can anyone with that campaign give use information?

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:27:06 -0400
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:

> Planets! Phaugh! I wanna know at what TL you can make a Dyson sphere jump
> capable!

We COULD tell..... but then we would have to destroy you!!!!

Fear the Forerunners, Grandfather was only a kid!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 21:10:21 -0700
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller in the Hall of Fame

Congrats Marc!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:49:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com
Subject: 1000 paces

> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:51:21 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> 
> 1 mile = 1000 paces (mille pacem)

Is a 'pace' defined as two steps, as in successive plantings of (say) the
right foot?  Otherwise this implies a stride length of more than 5 feet...

Yep. To the Romans, a pace was defined as noted. Please note that a Roman
mile was slightly shorter than a modern stature mile.

Loren Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:57:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: fcain@st6000.sct.edu (Franklin W. Cain)
Subject: Planet busting...

I recall a world listed in either the _Astrogator's_Guide_to_Diaspora_ or a
TNE supplement, where the Pre-Rebellion size code listed in the UWP was a
"2", but the "Hard-Times"/"New Era" size code listed in the UWP was a "0".  

Up until now, I merely thought it was a *typo*...  :-) 

(Any one else know which world and product this was in?)  

Franklin

"We come in peace!...(Set phasers on 'obliterate.')"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 06:04:27 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: THUDDD 6 - errata

Hy Folks,

	some errata about my ship, a recalculation based on mass showed
	that I had to reduce some things.

	FFS Armor of the Eman-Maechti-Luerssen is 50 and not 80.
	T4 armor value is therefore 20, BR armor is 2.

	The link on the THUDDD page points into the dark 

		http://traveller.is-bremen.de/shipyard/kaneshi

	is right.
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:45:33 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Sustained Laser Fire (fwd)

Moin David 'Washu' Moodie,

> Another Itty-bitty question:
> 
> Ok, in FF&S it says Direct Electrical Input lasers have a homopolar
> generator strapped to them to provide power (in other words a battery).
> What would be the damage effects of strapping a power plant to the laser
> (most likely fusion) and firing a continuous beam? Obviously there'd be
> some cooling problems, but my best guess is eventually the laser would
> penetrate most armour and cause nasty amounts of damage in a short space
> of time...

	The HPG is more a "condensator/capacitator" for slow storing
	energy with a high pulse. Our house rule limits a HPG to a
	rate of fire TL*25 to avoid "single HPG for all lasers designs"
	posible in TNE-FFS. I dont know wether its in FFS2 now, I hope
	they have the TL*50 MJ maximum for lasers to avoid Tl13 non
	graph focused 2000 Mjoule Lasers ;-)
- -- 
	kraehe@bakunin.north.de			human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		  " ceterum censeo MSDOS esse delendam "

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:55:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Woden2014@aol.com
Subject: Population (was Pirates)

Hans said:
<<The average population of a Traveller world is 1.5 billion (The Imperium
of 1100 has 10,000 worlds and 15 trillion inhabitants).>>

I'm not sure where you found the 15 trillion inhabitants(could you let me
know? I don't have many Traveller books), but according to The Traveller
Book(CT) 'The Imperium is a far flung interstellar community encompassing
over 1100 worlds ...' and the CT setting is 1105.

<< On the average out of 36 planets you have:

1 with population 0
2  "      -"-     1
3  "      -"-     2
4  "      -"-     3
5  "      -"-     4
6  "      -"-     5
5  "      -"-     6
4  "      -"-     7
3  "      -"-     8
2  "      -"-     9
1  "      -"-     A

With a total population of 540 billion people (36*1.5 billion).>>

Using the world creation chart for pop., and your figures above, you get a
pop. range 
of 12 billion to 123 billion. By planetary pop. code Regina subsector has a
potential  16.5 - 165.6 Billion pop. range, and a Library Data entry pop. of
60.1 billion.

I don't know where you got your taxation figures, so I won't make any
comments on it, other than I didn't follow all of it, so more detail would be
apriciated.  I don't know if the above information invalidates your argument,
but it definitely alters it cosiderably.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:50:04 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Constant Laser Fire 

>> Ok, in FF&S it says Direct Electrical Input lasers have a homopolar
>> generator strapped to them to provide power (in other words a battery).
>> What would be the damage effects of strapping a power plant to the
>> laser (most likely fusion) and firing a continuous beam? Obviously
>> there'd be some cooling problems, but my best guess is eventually the
>> laser would penetrate most armour and cause nasty amounts of damage in
>> a short space of time...

> One way to handle it is to consider the weapon to have a high ROF.
> If the normal laser pulse is 0.01 seconds long, you have 100 'pulses'
> per second, and a ROF of 500 (5x100).  The penetration will only
> increase if the target obliges by standing still long enough.
> A couple of problems, however. 

My theory is you can hold a steady beam for a few seconds then you have
to let the whole thing cool down, but if the pulse rate is 100 per second
even a moving target should be easy to cut through...hmmm..

> In order to get that high a ROF, the focal array has to be beefed up
> substantially (an FA multiplier of 2000).  Also, your 0.01 MJ laser

FA of 2000? Hmm, must have overlooked that somewhere...I'm not that clued
up on Laser physics so I thought leaving a laser on constantly for a few
seconds couldn't hurt... They do in laser light shows etc...

> (typical for a laser pistol) now requires a 1 MW power input.

Hehe Fusion power at Tl-17 can get pretty compact!


>Nitpick: the homopolar generator is not a battery (in the sense of
>long-term power storage) - it's acting as a capacitor since the
>battery does not have the power output needed to power the laser pulse
>directly.
Yeah I know... but I meant it in the scale of a device that is rated in Mj
storage rather than Mw output (where Mw's are Mj's over time yes?)


David Moodie
_______________________________________________________
THE MANY FACES OF WASHU/NENE ROMANOVA GALLERIES       
http://www.st.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dmoodie/index.html  
- -------------------------------------------------------
Worshipper of Washu, Nene & Traveller : TNE ^-^ 

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1897
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 30 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1898



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Very Sharp Knives
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame
Re: Nano-shovels and other unpleasant gadgets
Re: Deep meson busters
Income (was Pirates)
Re: Jump Supressor
Imperial Navy Handbook & ground forces.
Re: The Piracy Thread 
re: award
Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame
Re: Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun an
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: Jump Projectors
Re: How high are skill levels, really
Re: Cred
Re: Jump Projectors
re: WBH religious profile
Re: Population
Re: TNE Fixes & Very (LONG) Sharp Knives
Re: Animal Encounters; Errata for T4

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:05:16 +1000 (EST)
From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Very Sharp Knives

Thanks for that, I'll put the glass blades & or lubricant at TL-8 and have
a steady progression in nano-technology that should peak around or before
the 3I probably. I'll put some kind of shape-manipulating field at higher
levels I guess.

	I just wonder why no one had thought of this in before.
Hell a trooper in battle dress with a really sharp axe could cut through
most types personal armour!


On 29 Sep 1997, Mr. Whipple wrote:

> "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> writes:
> 
> > And now...
> > 
> > ***************
> > * A Question! *
> > ***************
> > 
> > TNE Related of course, but all suggestions are welcome:
> > 
> > 	I'm working on some rules for constructing extra-sharp edges for
> > knives/swords etc... because I figured by the year 5000+ mankind must have
> > developed some pretty sneaky techniques for improving melee weapon
> > penetration. I'm not actually going to have monomolecular weapons, but
> > something pretty close to it.
> > 
> [...]
> > 
> > My questions are:
> > 
> > 		1) What kinds of things could we do to make things
> > 		   sharper (eg diamond tips and so on...)
> > 		2) At what tech level should this option appear and how
> > 		   fast should it develop?
> > 		3) How much is this going to bump up the price of the
> > 		   weapon (obviously based on area being sharpened)?
> > 		4) Is there some way that these weapons could be dulled
> > 		   and sharpened through some sort of artificial
> > 		   manipulation at higher tech levels to avoid some nasty
> > 		   cuts?
> 
> I'm afraid 20th-century technology has already beaten you to it. Twice.
> 
> First, we have The Sharpest Possible Blade (tm), which is made from
> ordinary, boring glass, volcanic or synthetic, it doesn't matter.
> These blades taper to the width of a single atom at their edges, which
> degree of sharpness I trust you will agree cannot be exceeded with
> normal matter. They aren't the most durable things in the world, but
> they are as sharp as it gets.  To do better, you would have to switch
> to clarke-magical force fields or something.
> 
> (We also have monomolecular technology in the form of mono-crystalline
> metals. They probably wouldn't be much sharper than ordinary metals,
> this being a forging technique rather than a question of alloys, but
> they do hold an edge longer and better than the same alloys do when
> conventionally forged.)
> 
> Penetration, on the other hand, is another matter. They way we handle
> this now seems basically to involve reducing friction between the
> blade and whatever you're trying to penetrate. Sliding the blade along
> the cut speeds penetration, and I believe this has to do with
> overcoming static friction. Once you've done this by sliding the
> blade, the force applied directly to penetration doesn't have to, and
> penetration is improved. Serration seems to be similar, but the
> mechanism is less clear to me.
> 
> (I know, pretty boring so far. Hang on.)
> 
> The other way we handle the friction/penetration problem is
> lubrication.  Remember cop-killer bullets?  The teflon coating over
> the hard brass slug reduces friction between the slug and the
> target. In the case of Kevlar armor, this means that instead of
> snagging a bullet-sized patch of the cloth to elastically absorb the
> impact, the cloth stretches across the slippery surface of the
> bullet. The point of contact get smaller and smaller in terms of how
> much cloth is touching the slug, so fewer fibers have to fail for the
> slug to get through. The bullet penetrates much more efficiently for
> its size/mass/speed.
> 
> So what does this mean for me, the consumer? 
> 
> You could try high-tech lubricants on your blade, either materially or
> with some sort of friction-reducing field. You could also try
> vibrating the blade rapidly, an old standby.
> 
> Here's a sneaky idea. Let your actual blade be dull as toast, but coat
> it with gazillions of nano-machines that act like power shovels, or
> like stainless-steel versions of the cilia in your lungs. When the
> blade touches a target, the nano-machines start digging/sweeping/
> whatever, and your blade literaly burrows into the target. If you
> don't have an answer for your question number 4, your blade will
> always cleave anything it touches in twain, no questions asked, unless
> the power runs out. Ouch.
> 
> I should think this would be pretty expensive.
> 
> -- 
> Edgar Whipple            This is my signature.
> ewhipple@rma.edu         It's not much, but it's all I have.
> 

David Moodie
_______________________________________________________
THE MANY FACES OF WASHU/NENE ROMANOVA GALLERIES       
http://www.st.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dmoodie/index.html  
- -------------------------------------------------------
Worshipper of Washu, Nene & Traveller : TNE ^-^ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:49:26 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

At 12:50 PM 29/09/97 -0700, you wrote:
>My next question is, what tech level can planets be made "Jump capable"?

TL-9 (or 10... where does it start these days?). You can jump any sized
object as long as.... oh... hang on... OK, using FFS1 or MT you can jump
any sized object as long as you can wrap it in a jump grid... I'm not to
sure about HG, or FFS2. 

Anyway.... the big problem would be where the hell are you going to get the
jump fuel from?


Harry 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:51:58 -0700
From: Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame

>The Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts and Design
>Inducts into the
>Adventure Gaming Hall of Fame
>
>Traveller
>Game Designers=ED Workshop
>
>Designer: Marc Miller

Congrats.  Kind of dates me, though - Traveller was the second game RPG I
ever played, and I had one of the very first original sets of little black
books in town.  Made me the envy oif my gaming friends...

Scott

- -------
Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu.  http://users.deltanet.com/~fuz/
"You die, she dies, EVERYbody dies" - Heavy Metal
"When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment results" -
Calvin Coolidge, attrib. by Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:23:29 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Nano-shovels and other unpleasant gadgets

>To get the most damage from melee weapons I recommend a good thrusting
>sword with a sharp point, teflon-greased edges, and maybe a blood gutter to
>prevent it getting stuck. Then learn to use it properly. It really doesn't
>matter what you shove into someone's eye socket (other, perhaps, than eye
>drops). The net result is much the same.
>
>And if you really want to do more damage, well then....
>I've got a nice line in Mass Drivers over here....
>
>Martin.

To me the simplest "high tech" improvement on melee weaponry would be
electric shockers fed through the blade (make the blade laminated with a
thin insulator in between or athrusting one with two isolated needles at
the tip. Most hits that pnetrate armour/clothing would stun the target and
subsequently the attacker can cut him to pieces at aeisurely pace.


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:24:50 +0100
From: anders.backman@aniware.se (Anders Backman)
Subject: Re: Deep meson busters

>While FS's idea isn't workable, I must point out that it is possible to
>build *nuclear* shaped charge weapons. Assuming that it is possible to
>build fusion weapons that don't require a fission trigger, you can even
>make them fairly "clean".
>
>I suspect that such a weapon would have to be built into something the
>size of a ship's boat or pinnace and soft landed on the target.
>
>Another possibility is a "spinal mount" sized plasma weapon configured
>as a "drill". Land the ship (with meson screens on), and start "burning
>a hole. I'd expect that you could get some fairly substantial cutting
>rates.  (km/hr?)
>
>If available, you'd want tractor beams to scoop material out of the
>hole as fast as it melted. This would make the "drill" site about as
>welcome as an active volcano (a small one), but it's better than most
>other means of taking out such a site. And it's re-usable!

Why not take the gun/powerplants out with a mesongun of your own?


/Anders Backman
Aniware AB
anders.backman@aniware.se

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 02:20:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Woden2014@aol.com
Subject: Income (was Pirates)

Hans said:
<snip>
<<  The Cr500/person is straight out of _Trillion Credit Squadron_. It is also
equal to 5% of the average person's yearly income. (This figure, Cr10,000
per person on the average was something I calculated based on the monthly
expenses quoted in CT; with the publication of _Pocket Empires_ it also
became canon (Yay! ;-))  >>
 
where in PE did you find a persons yearly income?  I couldn't find it.

<snip>
<<  I don't know about you, but I use more money than just for my food and rent.
So I would add 50% to that figure for other expenses. That's Cr600 per month
or Cr7,200 per year. Then I assume that people pay 25% in taxes on the
average (Note: According to _Pocket Empires_ this is on the low end of the
scale for taxes). That gives an average income of Cr9,600 which I rounded
up to Cr10,000. @5% taxes gives you Cr2500 per person of which 20% goes to
defense. Now, that isn't so unreasonable, is it?  >>

Ok, you  took personal expences (7200/yr) added planetary taxes(?) back into
it (+2400 =9600cr) then you rounded up (10,000) so far I'm with you, now you
sutracted the Imperial taxes of 5% (which is actualy 500cr.).  I suppose you
probably mean 25%, but what about planetary taxes? those goverments don't run
on their own.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:32:43 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Supressor

> I suppose you could mess with a tractor to give a proper decrement to
> the beam. But that would make things *very* range dependent. You'd not
> only have to have it aimed in the right direction, you'd have to have
> the range set right.

Well, what I meant by "focus" was a narrow beam tractor, say with the same
diameter as a laser. Or how about a 20-30m diameter beam?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:35:21 +0800
From: Colin Hutchinson <chutchin@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Imperial Navy Handbook & ground forces.

I have a draft of the INH.  I wonder whether it ever got printed.  I did not
care much for the combat rules, but it seemed to have a very good set of
campaign rules (Collated from all manner of sources).   It at least provided
a workable system of calculating the number of starships available etc.
(Maybe useful for the piracy thread) One thing that has always struck me
about Travellar is that (not surprisingly given that it is a RPG) whilst
there has been some work on Navy budgets, and prices,  work on ground forces
is very patchy, frequently inconsistent, and bears no relationship to
industrial capacity. (Compare WTH, Striker, FFW, COACC, POT)  I am trying to
come up with some guidelines that will tie all this together to add some
background strategy to my campaign.  Any thoughts?

                        Colin Hutchinson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 23:30:52 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: The Piracy Thread 

Douglas wrote


> > They don't need any access at all the way you mean. All the need is
> > membership in the Imperium (or just an alliance with a high-population
> > world with an A starport).
> 
> ahhh...
> 
> IMHO, Any military alliance within the Imperium is going to be soundly
> slapped down.  That's a direct challenge to the authority of the Imperial
> nobility (and essentially, resulted in the chaos of the Rebellian).  Any
> support for the individuals planets is requested from the Imperial Navy.

But lots of planets in the Imperium have captive governments.  These
planets are owned or ruled by other planets.  This is a lot more control
over the other planet than in a mere alliance.  Why would the Imperium
permit ownership of other planets but prohibit the less threatening
alliance ?

- --
 pnewman@alaska.net		Peter Newman 
- --------------------------------------------------------------
"I have been nothing but compassionate and understanding. I mean, all
you had to do was to admit you were wrong and I was right and everything
would've been fine." - Ivanova to Winters in Babylon5: "Divided
Loyalties"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:52:09 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: award

CardSharks@aol.com wrote about Traveller in the Hall of Fame:
>I just received in the mail today a plaque inscribed=85
>
>The Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts and Design
>Inducts into the
>Adventure Gaming Hall of Fame
>Traveller
>Game Designers=92 Workshop
>Designer: Marc Miller
>Inducted at
>Origins 1997


Congratulations!  A well deserved success.


>1997 is the 20th Anniversary of the publication of Traveller... it was
>originally released at Origins in 1977.


And if anyone needs a happy 20th Anniversary bibliography of all that's
made Traveller great those last two decades.... ;-)


Here's to the next twenty years!

tc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:18:41 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame

Kudos and Congrats Marc!

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:23:20 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun an

I'll be the Advocate for the Vogon Constructor Fleet.  :)

Now where's my poetry......

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:30:22 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:

> Planets! Phaugh! I wanna know at what TL you can make a Dyson sphere jump
> capable!


or a RingWorld?  :)
- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:27:59 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

Couldn't you refine hydrogen from the oceans of the world in order to
"jump" it?

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:35:07 -0700
From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

I've read all the Lensmen books but that was years ago and I barely
remember them.

I just hate 'limitations'.  :)

What I would like to do is create a tech level list that goes from stone
age to racial 'godhood' in the basic style of CT's tech list, with
examples of the technology available.

- --
                              The J-Man
                             GOC Systems
                           j-man@iname.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:41:51 +0100
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Re: How high are skill levels, really

Scott Ellsworth <Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu> sent in the results of
Monte Carlo simulation of skill-picking for characters in T4. I just wanted
to check a couple of points:

>This is not an issue that can easily be ignored - in TLWH, characters
>regularly encounter people with skill levels of six and seven...

IIRC, in TLWH this was supposed to indicate that these NPCs had pretty much
dedicated their lives to that particular skill (and were thus experts), or
were naturally adept due to adaptation to the environment, etc. I think in
the original TLWH (vs. the IG LWH & Gateway) we had wondered about putting
even higher skill levels, as at the time of writing, I had only seen a draft
of the T4 rules and it wasn't clear to me how high 'expert' skills should
be. Would you believe it! TLWH and T4 was only launched here in the UK just
over a year ago. Doesn't time fly! :-)

>From a quick perusal of the skill charts, it looks like most professions...

From a quick perusal I didn't see anything in your text to indicate
considerations such as cascades and clusters, where the player gets to
choose a particular skill. For a character who wished to specialise in a
subject, this makes quite a difference to their final balance of skills.

IIRC, the new T4.1 advocates choosing skills above rolling them?

Anyway, well done Scott for an interesting look at skill generation! :-)

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:17:11 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Cred

At 11:47 PM 9/28/97 +0100, you wrote:
>How To Lose Your Credibility In A Traveller Game:

I sense a new Silly Era page!!!  Anybody else have real-life woofers like
these?


- --

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry     dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/      |
|----------------------------------------|
|      I am trying to find myself.       |
| If I should return before I come back, |
|        please ask me to wait.          |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:03:40 -0700
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

At 12:50 PM 9/29/97 -0700, J-Man wrote:

>My next question is, what tech level can planets be made "Jump capable"?

You are part of an evil plot involving the Coca-Cola bottling company to
increase their profits by making spit their products all over my computer.
I imagine that Dell is involved also.

As I recall, planet sized jump portals become possible at TL21... but let's
have some fun.  Let's equip Earth with a jump-1 drive (TL 15).

Earth has a radius of 6,378,000 meters (roughly)

This gives a volume of 1.0868X10^21 m^3

Jump Drive Volume:  2.1736x10^19 m^3
Jump Drive Mass:    4.3472x10^19 tons
Jump Drive Cost:    6.5208x10^18 MCr
Jump Grid Area:     7.65099x10^9 m^2
Jump Fuel (1 jump): 1.0868x10^20 m^3



- --
+-------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net   |
|          Proud Gearhead & Planetologist         |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/         |
|*************************************************|
|"Mortal as I am, I know that I am born for a day |
|  But when I follow at my pleasure the serried   |
|  multitude of the stars in their course, my     |
|  feet no longer touch the Earth."               |
|                   -Cladius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy) |
+-------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:36:13 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: re: WBH religious profile

John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In Government Related Details 8a (God View, p.79), what *are* you
>supposed to roll for government type E?  2D+3D-5 makes very little
>sense to me.

I've not had any problem with this.  Basically it makes it *likely* that
the result will be at the higher end of the table which tends to make
sense, but it is *possible* for it to be anything.


>Also, what do you do if they want a faith that isn't a state religion
>(i.e., for one of the other government types)?  Do you just decide which
>of D or E would be most appropriate?


If you want something random you could always roll 3D-3.  Note that this
does not make all possibilities equally likely though. My *guess* is that
this was what was intended and may have been left out.  Golly gosh, an
erratum in a DGP book???  ;-)


I always assumed that you were simply to pick what you felt was most
appropriate bearing in mind all the previous details of the world that
you've generated.  By the time I get to this stage I reckon I have quite a
'feel' for the planet and what would be appropriate.  If I don't care or am
not inspired, I just pick one (and this is *assuming* that I feel a 'world'
religion is appropriate - I usually generate religions separately so one
world might have several or nothing particularly).  [1]


Then again I also use the URP for personal beliefs of NPCs (you only need
to revise the 'number of adherents' to something like 'number of
like-minded people' or whatever).



Having said all this, I confess that I don't exactly create hundreds of
religions (!) so it's not really a problem anyway.  Perhaps it could be a
new BITS book, 101 Religions.  Anyone interested if I started putting some
together?


>John (back from holimoon)

Congratulations?

tc

[1] Although the local subsector/sector or whatever might have several.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:42:55 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Population

Woden2014@aol.com writes:
 
>Hans said:
><<The average population of a Traveller world is 1.5 billion (The Imperium
>of 1100 has 10,000 worlds and 15 trillion inhabitants).>>
> 
>I'm not sure where you found the 15 trillion inhabitants(could you let me
>know? I don't have many Traveller books), 

One of the MT books. I'm almost sure it is _Rebellion_, but I'll check when
I get home.

>but according to The Traveller Book(CT) 'The Imperium is a far flung 
>interstellar community encompassing over 1100 worlds ...' and the CT 
>setting is 1105.

Really? Well, that was changed subsequently. I'll dig out the reference
for you. Again, I'm _almost_ 100% sure of the 10,000 systems, but my
memory is not always reliable, so I have to hedge.
 
> << On the average out of 36 planets you have:
> 
> 1 with population 0
> 2  "      -"-     1
> 3  "      -"-     2
> 4  "      -"-     3
> 5  "      -"-     4
> 6  "      -"-     5
> 5  "      -"-     6
> 4  "      -"-     7
> 3  "      -"-     8
> 2  "      -"-     9
> 1  "      -"-     A
> 
> With a total population of 540 billion people (36*1.5 billion).>>

That should have been 54 billion people, of course. Btw. note that if you
assume an average population multiplier of 5, then you get a total population
of 55.555555555 billion, which is pretty close to the other figure (In my
own universe I use a D9 to generate population multipliers for all population 
levels up to 9, but only a D6 for population 10 worlds; this gives me an
average population of about 1 billion per system, but that is, of course,
not canonical.)

>Using the world creation chart for pop., and your figures above, you get a
>pop. range of 12 billion to 123 billion. 

I don't follow you here. How do you arrive at those figures?

>By planetary pop. code Regina subsector has a potential  16.5 - 165.6 
>Billion pop. range, and a Library Data entry pop. of 60.1 billion.

Well, that seems to make a consistency check, then.
 
>I don't know where you got your taxation figures, so I won't make any
>comments on it, other than I didn't follow all of it, 

According to an old CT module called _Trillion Credit Squadron_ the naval
taxes of a world equals Cr500 per citizen. Another GDW publication called
_Striker_ had a more detailed way of calculating taxes which ranged from
about 1/3rd of the above to a maximum of 15 times that (ie ~Cr2,500).

I'm not wedded to either of those systems, but I've been using TCS figures
for over a decade, so those are the ones I'm familiar with. Now that
_Pocket Empires_ are out I expect that I'll one day sit down and see what
results you get if you use them for starship building, but until then I'm
sticking to TCS. But I'm perfectly willing to either go along with or poke
holes in any other taxation and shipbuilding scheme that anyone else takes
the time to crunch numbers on. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:04:15 +0200
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi>
Subject: Re: TNE Fixes & Very (LONG) Sharp Knives

> Remember cop-killer bullets? The teflon coating over the hard brass
> slug reduces friction between the slug and the target.

	The basic idea in the teflon bullet appear to be largely
	misunderstood, and the version of the story I learned is
	completely different than the "teflon-coated-low-friction-
	cop-killer-bullet".

	When "teflon" is mentioned, most people will think about
	low-friction coating in their cooking hardware. However there
	are several kinds of teflon plastics, and one form of teflon
	is commonly used as non-slip surface in the lower part of
	a walking stick.

	The original idea of teflon bullet was to improve the bullet
	biting angle so that the bullet would not ricochet from car
	windshield so easily. The inventors returned to an old idea
	of coating arrowtips with beewax (assumed to improve arrow
	biting angle against plate armor), and coated the bullet
	nose with high-friction teflon.

	The teflon coating did not improve the bullet performance
	sufficiently, and the project was dropped. The later anti-
	windshield bullets had crown-like serrated nose.

	However, the idea of teflon-coated armor-piercing bullet
	caught the public attention, even though there was very
	little real-life data. Teflon bullets generally appear
	only in low-quality films (Knightrider, etc.).

	The story behind the teflon bullet can be found in back
	issues of "International Journal on Impact Engineering".



        Antti Lahtinen     :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        lahtinen@ee.tut.fi :

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:00:49 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Animal Encounters; Errata for T4

Dom Mooney writes:
>Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
> 
>>Page 144 and 145: The rules say you need to roll the Attack/Flee number
>>		  _or more_ for the animal to Attack/Flee. It should be
>>		  the number or less.
> 
>If it's any help, when we discussed 101 Lifeforms at EuroGenCon we agreed
>on 'roll lower' as the convention as it fitted in with T4's target numbers.

So it does, except that carnivores gets low attack and high flee numbers
and herbivores vice versa. Also, trappers and sirens attack if THEY are
surprised ;-).

(Btw. there is also a typo: A pouncer both attacks and flees if it is
surprised. It should be attack if surprise, flee if surprised.

>IIRC the tables actually generate 'roll higher' values.. which means a
>herbivore is more likely to attack than a killer... p142 discussed rolling
>under a value
> 
>>Page 152: The 'To attack' collumn of the ANIMAL CHARACTERISTICS table have
>>          the 'To flee' figures and vice versa.
> 
>Unless they are generating using the old 'roll higher' convention from CT
>and MT?

The MT convention is 'roll lower' and the two columns are exactly the
ones of the MT rules (from which the T4 rules are taken almost verbatim)
switched over. And the numbers have not just been reversed to reflect a
possible change to 'roll higher' in T4. (The text has 'roll lower' in one
place and 'roll higher' in two other. I omitted that because it has already
been noted in the errata someone sent IG and they put on their web page
(back when they still updated their web pages occasionally). 

>I have been regenerating the numbers based on the assumption that the roll
>is on 2D6 as a baseline (ie 9 on the rules given would become 5..).

Try comparing the T4 rules with the MT rules. Let me know what you find.
I'd like someone else to check that I haven't just misread something. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1898
***********************************
Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 30 1997    Volume 1997 : Number 1899



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The Piracy Thread
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1895
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1896
Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame
Traveller Campaign List Available
Re: Piracy
Re: Piracy
TAS Smaller Imperial Corporations & Institutions List
Re: Jump Projectors
Traveller software
Re: Very Sharp Knives
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1898
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1898
Re: Future THUDDD Designs
Re: Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun an
Re: The Piracy Thread 
Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)
Re: Very Sharp Knives
Re: Very Sharp Knives
Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame
Re: Traveller software
Re: Very Sharp Knives
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:48:59 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: The Piracy Thread

Douglas <douglas@teleport.com> writes:

>On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> 
>>>>And the average answer is roughly 5 trillion credit squadrons per billion 
>>>>people living in the sector. That's what I've been trying to get across. 
> 
>And I am trying to point out that building and technical resources are
>limited.
> 
>SpinWard Marches Sector - data taken from "Supplement 3 The Spinward
>Marches"
>
>For the sector, we have a total of 53 Class A starports and 114 Class B
>starports supporting the civilian and military needs for an entire sector.

This says very little. The important thing is how many high-population worlds
have Class A and B starports. Shipyard capacity is based on population size.

>(House rule - Class A starport
>must be TL 9, Class B starport must be TL 8 - comments?)  

I play it that a Class A starport on a TL9- world is maintained from outside
and that its size consequently has no relationship to the popualtion of the
planet it is on (Usually it is pretty small).

>There are 208
>planets with the TL base to support the stellar community.  This is from a
>sector with 440 mainworlds.  (ie. Class A - 12%, Class B - 26%, TL9+ - 47%)

But there is a bias built into system generation that gives high-population
worlds a higher average TL. There's also a rule somewhere in a CT
publication that I keep losing track of to the effect that ships of up to
5000 T may be built by worlds without Class A and B starports (provided it
has the necessary TL, of course).

>Any single starport can only build so many ships at a time.  And,
>commercially, you are only going to build the capacity that will be used,
>not the maximum the planet can support.

The shipyard sizes defined by TCS (roughly 1T/year capacity per 1000
citizens  --  there are also government modifiers, but it averages out
at 1) are for military ships only. All commercial traffic is ignored
(except that the civilian shipyards must be the reason why shipyard capacity 
can increase dramatically from one week to the next when a world goes on a 
war footing).  

>So, back to the question that spawned this data deluge - how many ships
>will a starport be able to build?

Sample world with 50 billion inhabitants:

Military shipyard capacity: 50,000,000 T/year
Naval budget: MCr 25,000,000/year
Fleet size: 500,000,000 T*

Shipyard utilization:
	New construction: 10,000,000 T/year**
	Maintenance:      10,000,000 T/year***

*Assuming average warship costs MCr0.5 per T; this is propably not far wrong
 for jump-6 ships; for a system defense boat it would be more like 0.85, but
 let's be conservative here).

**Assuming useful life of a warship is 50 years.

***Assuming flawless rotation of all ships; propably not realistic, but there
   is plenty of slack, as you can see.

As you can see there is actually plenty of shipyard capacity left over, so
perhaps civilian shipping IS included. There's no rules for the deleterious
effect on civilian shipping of using up all the capacity for military ships,
so I guess the evidence points both ways.

If I was running the Imperium you'd have a huge number of warships laid up 
in ordinary and a fleet only half the size indicated above, but even half
a fleet is still an enormous number of ships. 

>>>and the access that 'C', 'D' and 'E' systems will have to these ships.
>> 
>>They don't need any access at all the way you mean. All the need is 
>>membership in the Imperium (or just an alliance with a high-population
>>world with an A starport).
> 
>ahhh...
> 
>IMHO, Any military alliance within the Imperium is going to be soundly
>slapped down.  That's a direct challenge to the authority of the Imperial
>nobility (and essentially, resulted in the chaos of the Rebellion).  Any
>support for the individuals planets is requested from the Imperial Navy.

In a sense all Imperial worlds are allied. We do have indications that 
individual planets are allowed to own jump-capable ships (You can get 
astrogation skill even in planetary navies and the standard patrol ship
is jump-capable) though there could very well be severe limitations to 
their size. In a pinch the local Imperial admiral no doubt has the
authority to commandeer local planetary ships. But that wasn't what I was
aiming at at all. I was just pointing out that even outside the Imperium
pirates would have a very thin time of it, as long as there was a single
high-population world nearby. Strend (just rimward of Five Sisters) could
for example easily keep Menorial Subsector clean on its own.
 
>The Imperium is ultimately a capitalistic society.  If you need something,
>you pay for it.  If you can't pay for it, you do without.  That's why
>Class D and E starports are a hazard, and because they are a hazard, they
>are unable to get the trade and credit to make them safer.

Balder-, if you will excuse the expression, -dash. The Imperium protects
client states far beyond its borders. It even protect non-client states that 
happens to lie in designated protected districts. It will certainly protect
member systems to the best of its ability. And that is very, very able.

>I tend to see piracy as being cyclic.  An area is vulnerable, and begins
>to report piracy.  Eventually, enough pressure is generated to create a
>response (either a temporary visit by a CruRon and it's support ships)

Turn the thing around. Why in the universe would the Imperium _fail_ to
picket any and all of its systems (and quite a few of the systems beyond
its borders) and thus weaken their early warning capability? That just
don't make sense. That has nothing to do with piracy at all. That comes
naturally from having enemies. And we do know that the Imperium have
enemies, don't we?

>which will scare off the corsairs, or a more permanent placement of Patrol
>Craft.  Corsairs, not being totally stupid, leave for greener pastures.
>Reports go down.  Patrol crews get bored. Navy officers (having missed
>their decoration roll and their promotion roll) clamor to be transferred
>to "greener" pastures where they might shine.  Resources are re-allocated.

I still haven't put my point across, have I? Ships may (almost certainly
will) be rotated, but there is no lack of resources, no reason to leave
any system unguarded, and some reason not to leave it unguarded. Not 
necessarily very urgent reasons, and if the ships were needed elsewhere
some systems would certainly be left unguarded, but unless there is a
major war going on, the ships _won't_ be needed elsewhere.

"I do not claim that it will not require considerable assets to prevent
piracy, merely that it will require considerably less than what is 
available."

>System Defense would be static, but again resources would not be allocated
>for the poorer systems, because it is a waste of resources to defend
>those systems.

No, it is not a waste, because you have the resources anyway. Not to employ
them _would_ be a waste. And, btw. every time you prevent the capture of a
single free trader, you save enough to keep two patrol ships going for over a 
year. To allow piracy when you can prevent it is the way to waste resources. 

Incidentally if a ship is captured in a C, D, or E system, odds are 
that the ship belongs to another planet, one that does command patrol ships.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:28:55 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1895

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:33:10 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:10:39 -0500
>From: John Kovalic <muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com>
>Subject: GURPS: Traveller
>
>Thought I'd post this from the Steve Jackson Games foldre on AOL (PyramidEd
>is Scott Haring, Big Wig at SJG):
>
>************************************
>
>Subj:  Re:GURPS Traveler
>Date:  9/28/97 2:46:30am
>From:  Pyramid Ed
>
><<<Now, a quick question:  are there any plans for GURPS
>Traveller besides the one alternate timeline book?>>>
>
>Absolutely. We plan a line of books. Many, many books.

Which is good enough for me -- I'll only be buying GURPSTrav stuff until (if it
ever happens) IG gets their act together. Of course, like I've said, the chances
are good that unless IG *does* get their act together, there will be *no* IG
within a year or so (or less) and GURPSTrav will be all she wrote.

If you don't like GURPS, tough. *I* didn't like the stupidity of Virus in TNE,
nor did I like the stupidity of 1st Printing MTrav. No-one consulted me, then,
either :-)

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:32:24 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1896

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:35:44 -0400, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:05:11 -0700
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: Rumor or fact??
>
>As someone who has been involved in GURPS Traveller before all this
>and who intends to use GURPS for all his Traveller gaming in the
>future, I think all this talk of IG's demise are "way" premature.
>Even if GURPS Traveller does sell better, that means it will
>represent a steady stream in liscencing fees to keep IG's going.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but IG doesn't get licensing fees from SJG
- -- the *parent* Company, Sweatpea, does. Now, it may be that they will use the
fees from SJG to cross subsidise IG -- but this doesn't necessarily make good
business sense!

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 10:28:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: SemoFetus@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame

>I just received in the mail today a plaque inscribed=85
>
>The Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts and Design
>Inducts into the
>Adventure Gaming Hall of Fame

Congratulations

Semo

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 1997 10:27 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: Traveller Campaign List Available

Gentle Readers,

I have compiled almost all of the responses from my question
about active Traveller campaigns.  Is there a Traveller website 
out there that wants to host it (I transcribed the data into 
..html format)?

Also, who would NOT like their campaign on this list?

Rob

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 1997 14:23:32 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Piracy

>In the material I have, piracy is organized by hostile governments and not
>individuals. However, I don't have every adventure or supplement written.

In "The Spinward Campaign" GDW introduced the concept of a Trade War, which
is essentially a private war between two companies.  Attacks on the other
companies ships were allowed, as long as the attacks did not interfere with
trade (ie. neutrals were safe, no planets cut off).

If you are a small company, having Tukera Lines declare a Trade War on you
would be like getting nailed by scores of pirate attacks, all legal.  And
Tukera can certainly outlast you, even if you are a reincarnation of Horatio
Hornblower.

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 1997 14:23:32 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Piracy

>In the material I have, piracy is organized by hostile governments and not
>individuals. However, I don't have every adventure or supplement written.

In "The Spinward Campaign" GDW introduced the concept of a Trade War, which
is essentially a private war between two companies.  Attacks on the other
companies ships were allowed, as long as the attacks did not interfere with
trade (ie. neutrals were safe, no planets cut off).

If you are a small company, having Tukera Lines declare a Trade War on you
would be like getting nailed by scores of pirate attacks, all legal.  And
Tukera can certainly outlast you, even if you are a reincarnation of Horatio
Hornblower.

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 1997 10:38 EDT
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortel.ca>
Subject: TAS Smaller Imperial Corporations & Institutions List

Fellow Travellers,

I am building a list of Imperial Corporations not mentioned
in the Traveller material; i.e. corporations & institutions
you have spun and weaved from your own creative energy.

Here is an example:

Entity       : <td> Starlane Drive Manufacturers		<tr>
Founder      : <td> SD Mooney 					<tr>
Founded In   : <td> Imperial Year X				<tr>
Contact      : <td> Sales Office <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>	<tr>
Main Office  : <td> ?? 						<tr>
Sectors      : <td> Rim & Diaspora				<tr>
Summary      : <td> GP Starship Machinery/Weapons		<tr>
Product Line : <td> Product Code <td> Product Name <td> one-liner description <tr>
             : <td> Product Code <td> Product Name <td> one-liner <tr>
             :   ...etc...


Rob
Your Friendly TAS Corrsepondant

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:58:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Jory M. Earl wrote:

> Couldn't you refine hydrogen from the oceans of the world in order to
> "jump" it?

Not enough, not by a long shot, and then you end up jumping a wrecked
planet 1 parsec...once.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 16:04 BST-1
From: ilaskey@cix.compulink.co.uk (Iain Laskey)
Subject: Traveller software

A friend and I are considering putting together some Traveller software 
for the PC (Windows). What kind of stuff would people be more likely to 
use?

Right now we only know Classic Traveller, having just revisited it after 
10 years. Do many people still use this or should we work with the 4.1 
ruleset? Is 4.1 available in the UK at all?

An initial stab suggests character, planet, subsector generators plus 
animals, encounters and so on. Any suggestions or feedback gratefully 
received.

Iain

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:52:15 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: Very Sharp Knives

On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, David 'Washu' Moodie wrote:

> 
> 
> Thanks for that, I'll put the glass blades & or lubricant at TL-8 and have
> a steady progression in nano-technology that should peak around or before
> the 3I probably. I'll put some kind of shape-manipulating field at higher
> levels I guess.

One minor point...those 'glass blades' are literally stone age technology,
TL0, being knapped pieces of obsidian. The TL-1-2 Mayans used obsidian
blades like that for surgery, and fairly similar blades were in use in
delicate things like eye surgery until lasers came into widespread use in
the last few decades.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 1997 15:53:00 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1898

>Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
> 
>>Page 144 and 145: The rules say you need to roll the Attack/Flee number
>>		  _or more_ for the animal to Attack/Flee. It should be
>>		  the number or less.

I sent this errata off to IG last fall, but nothing ever came of it.  Never
even showed up in their official errata list :-(

------------------------------

Date: 30 Sep 1997 15:53:00 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #1898

>Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:
> 
>>Page 144 and 145: The rules say you need to roll the Attack/Flee number
>>		  _or more_ for the animal to Attack/Flee. It should be
>>		  the number or less.

I sent this errata off to IG last fall, but nothing ever came of it.  Never
even showed up in their official errata list :-(

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:51:48 -0700
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: Re: Future THUDDD Designs

> if
>there's some facet of CSC which is so much better/cheaper than the FFS
>family of systems that it would seriously unbalance the contest, let me
>know and I'll reconsider this ruling.

CSC/EA don't include any weapons that are really useful at spacecraft combat
ranges, so people using them will have to put in weapons from some other
source (which should be easy enough.) Armour conversion (so one can compare
designs) is also tricky...the conversion tables in EA were supposed to be 
flawed somehow. Finally, propsective CSC users should be aware that
the best sensor in CSC is about a A1 or P1 in other terms, which is pretty
inadequate, so they may also want to use sensors from another supplement.
(Once I know what TL the contest is I may make some QSDS sensor packages 
appropriate to it.)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:13:18 -0700
From: scharlto@ifsna.com
Subject: Re: Destroying terrestrial worlds for fun an

Only if you can take the star with you, of course...

J-Man wrote
> Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:
>
>> Planets! Phaugh! I wanna know at what TL you can make a Dyson sphere
>> jump capable!
>
>
>or a RingWorld?  :)

Steven Charlton

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:18:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: The Piracy Thread 

On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Peter Newman wrote:

> 
> But lots of planets in the Imperium have captive governments.  These
> planets are owned or ruled by other planets.  This is a lot more control
> over the other planet than in a mere alliance.  Why would the Imperium
> permit ownership of other planets but prohibit the less threatening
> alliance ?

I can't remember where I read this, and I would appreciate it if someone
would correct me if I am mistaken, but I believe that captive governments
within the Imperium signify a planet under direct Imperial control (ie.
military government).

Does anyone else remember this, and where it came from?

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 18:05 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: TNAS (Traveller Naval Archtecture System)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.94.970930024129.980C-100000@tao.sans.vuw.ac.nz>

> And the prophet Marc did speak thusly unto the masses:
>  
> > T4.1 needs a ship design system and a space combat system. TNAS is
> > the ship design system; TSCS is the space combat system.
> >
>  An expanded, more versatile QSDS-like system is good, but only if it
> maintains the same backwards compatibility with FFS2 that QSDS has with
> FF&S.  Introducing a new system which is incompatible with the previously
> published ones would simply repeat the same mistake made with Bk 2 / HG in
> Classic Traveller...

I agree - TNAS *MUST* be 100% compatible with FF&S2. An updated QSDS would 
be perfect.
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 13:52:59 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: Very Sharp Knives

> From: "David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
>         I just wonder why no one had thought of this in before.
> Hell a trooper in battle dress with a really sharp axe could cut through
> most types personal armour!

Hasn't this been mentioned numerous times before?

If you're an armoured Marine boarding a (space) ship
which is depressurized, lacking gravity or both, it's
not always great to have a projectile weapon, as it
can cause a lot of damage to sensitive ship components 
which you may not want to damage and something like a
PGMP has a lot of kick (although it would make a good
backup one-man reaction drive if you get trapped in
deep space...). That's (presumably) why Marines all 
get cutlass-1, even in the 54th century.

Besides, it just seems so "retro" - 

"Prepare to repel boarders!"
"Boarders in visual range, Captain!"
"What are they wearing?"
"Gold lame bell-bottom battle armour, Sir! And they have axes!"
"Damn! It's the Imperial 1978th Squadron! Prepare to retreat!"

Ethan
- --
Ethan Henry                        egh@magma.ca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:25:04 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Very Sharp Knives

"David 'Washu' Moodie" <dmoodie@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> types:
>Thanks for that, I'll put the glass blades & or lubricant at TL-8 and have
>a steady progression in nano-technology that should peak around or before
>the 3I probably. I'll put some kind of shape-manipulating field at higher
>levels I guess.

   Glass blades are really, really sharp, but really, really brittle.
The trick is finding a blade that is both sharp enough, and hard enough.
Also remember that even space armor has weak points.  Joints, visors,
gaunlet palms.  I've always been a fan of armor on the backs of gaunlets.
Not only does it make punches do more damage, just placing your palms over
your face adds another armor layer to the visor.

>	I just wonder why no one had thought of this in before.
>Hell a trooper in battle dress with a really sharp axe could cut through
>most types personal armour!

   Well, it has been thought of before.  I personally am one of the people
who have beat their space axe into a blunt object on the subject.
   I still feel that battle dress/combat armor should have a retractable,
crystiron or superdense spike mounted on the forearm.  For close quarter
ship board fighting.  Unlike the water knife (which does have the advantage
of range), that spike's tank will not run dry on you at the worst possible
moment.
  But then...I  am a fan of the chest mounted claymore option for battle
dress as well...

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin eclipse@ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
Metamorphasis Alpha is one of those games us vets can use to lord over the 
goths.. "You think you've got problems, fang-boy? Hell , back in '79, we was 
on the Warden, and my character was forced to marry the Princess of the Giant 
Lab Rat People! Talk about angst! You kids today..." -- Douglas E. Berry 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 20:12 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Traveller in the Hall of Fame

In-Reply-To: <970929171904_1731646020@emout06.mail.aol.com>

> I just received in the mail today a plaque inscribed
>  
> The Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts and Design
> Inducts into the
> Adventure Gaming Hall of Fame
>  
> Traveller
> Game Designers Workshop

I'm absolutely disgusted.

This should've happened 20 years ago! 
:-)
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:08:11 +0000
From: Kenneth Bearden <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller software

Iain Laskey wrote:
> 
> A friend and I are considering putting together some Traveller software
> for the PC (Windows). What kind of stuff would people be more likely to
> use?


*Character generation with print capability for quick NPC's (have both
the long form, where a player can roll up a character just like he would
in the book, and have a quick random roll, where the GM can hit one
button and roll up a Rouge, or whatever, in a flash.)

*Program that takes the UWP data and follows the extended system rules
to develop an entire system, complete with maps of the solar system
(similiar to those used by DGP)

*Traveller world mapping utility, for detailing a world, using the rules
in the WBH.  A map should be printed.

How's that for starters?

Kenneth.

>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:41:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas <douglas@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Very Sharp Knives

On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> 
> One minor point...those 'glass blades' are literally stone age technology,
> TL0, being knapped pieces of obsidian. The TL-1-2 Mayans used obsidian
> blades like that for surgery, and fairly similar blades were in use in
> delicate things like eye surgery until lasers came into widespread use in
> the last few decades.
> 

The Mayan had famous surgeries all right...Didn't they innovate the
open-theatre, cardio-ectomy? :)

- --------------------------------------------
Any sufficiently reliable magic is indistinguishable from technology
                                              -Merlin

douglas@teleport.com
http:\\www.teleport.com\~douglas\

MCSE: Windows95, Windows NT 3.51 Server, Windows NT 3.51 Workstation, 
      Exchange Server, Basic Networking, TCP/IP

*Unsolicited advertisements will be deleted without review*
- --------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:12:00 -0400
From: Bill Prankard <BPRANKARD@theiia.org>
Subject: Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

>Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:49:26 -0900
>From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
>Subject: Re: Jump Projectors

>At 12:50 PM 29/09/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>My next question is, what tech level can planets be made "Jump capable"?

>TL-9 (or 10... where does it start these days?). You can jump any sized
>object as long as.... oh... hang on... OK, using FFS1 or MT you can jump
>any sized object as long as you can wrap it in a jump grid... I'm not to
>sure about HG, or FFS2.

>Anyway.... the big problem would be where the hell are you going to get the
>jump fuel from?


>Harry

>------------------------------
This sounds like that Dr. Who Episode "Pirate Planet" where basicaly a 
hollowed out world jumps around another in order to mine all its resources. 
 Nasty!  I am asuming this is where the idea originated? :-)

Fuel isnt the only problem.  What about the planet's own gravity well?  What 
would happen to the planet with the planet-wide jumpgrid going into jump 
since it cant get 100 diameters away from itself.  Would the planet...(Looks 
around to see if Hengebar Spofulam of his kids are listening and in a hushed 
voice...)er...go boom... or misjump?.  Also would everybody have to go 
underground and close the venitian blinds or go nuts from looking up in the 
air at the jump field?  Just what we need, an entire world of lunatics 
jumping into an unsuspecting star system...hmmmm....sounds like a EEEEEE-vil 
little scenario!

 -----------------------------
\\  //  "New Technologies for the New Imperium"
T E K   Military and Civilian Contractor
//  \\  Contact cmdrx@magicnet.net or bprankard@theiia.org

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1899
***********************************
